WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:10.599 You see somethings are going to happen? What What's gonna happen? 2 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:17.120 What a. 3 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:29.600 Welcome back to the Occult Rejects. This episode we got 4 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:31.879 two bangers with us. We got two big guests and 5 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:35.000 two returning guys that have only had on the show 6 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.640 once but already already loved what they brought together and 7 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:40.119 I can't wait to see what they do together as 8 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:43.840 a team. But before we get to Colin and Richard, 9 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:47.439 let me introduce the other rejects. And we got my 10 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:49.240 man the Headless Giant. What is going on? Sir? How 11 00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:49.479 are you? 12 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:53.880 How's it going? You can find me on YouTube on Twitter, 13 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:56.719 And I've got a bunch of shows tomorrow. I'm doing 14 00:00:56.759 --> 00:01:00.200 the trialogue with either Indigo and hopefully Recard Calbodio, and 15 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:03.000 we're going to be talking about any sort of topics 16 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:05.200 and usually they all relate back to each other. Then 17 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:08.159 I got seven seven seven on Tuesdays with Nick and 18 00:01:08.239 --> 00:01:11.120 we go through the Kabbala of Alistair Crowley, which is 19 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:14.680 a very interesting show. And then the mail Bags on Thursday. 20 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:17.239 Head List is magical mail Bag. We go over some 21 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.719 of your emails about occult experiences that you can send 22 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:24.400 to us at the Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot com. 23 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:28.439 And also we're doing a remote viewing audience participation, so 24 00:01:28.519 --> 00:01:29.640 definitely check those out. 25 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:33.120 Thank you, thank you, so thank you for thank you 26 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.280 for joining us today. And Ethan Indigo, what is going on? 27 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:38.120 Please let everybody know what they can find all your 28 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:39.319 amazing work and your books. 29 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:43.519 Salute everybody. Thank you Nick for putting all this together, 30 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:45.319 and thank you guys for being here. I know this 31 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:50.519 is going to be awesome topic. It's very contrarian for 32 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:53.719 most of the things up there right now, so appreciate it. 33 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:58.840 Ethan Indigo Smith on all the social media pretty easy 34 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:02.200 to find. And yeah, I like to get together with 35 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:05.760 ad Listen Ricarda every week and always like to be 36 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:09.199 on any show with the Colt Reject. So appreciate you guys. 37 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:11.000 Thank you so appreciating making it. 38 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:14.120 Oh yeah, my books, I got plenty of books I 39 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:16.919 forgot even even as your minded me, Nick, I forgot. 40 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:20.199 The Geometry of Energy is actually a free book right 41 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:23.240 now if if people want to check it. 42 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:25.960 Out, so well, that is awesome, dude, nice, very nice. Yeah, 43 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:28.039 definitely go check out Ethan's books. I mean, he's got 44 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:30.240 a fuck ton of them. Actually he never pulls them, 45 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:33.639 but uh, thank you Ethan. And I guess before I 46 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:35.560 introduced them to I guess for the listeners, I just 47 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:37.639 want to let them know that I think, well, I'm 48 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:40.360 going to ask see how everybody else is feeling. But 49 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:42.479 there's a good possibility we might be going live at 50 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.240 eight thirty in the fucking morning tomorrow morning. We got 51 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:49.560 David James Smith coming on, and I guess I coordinated 52 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:51.479 with him and somehow, I guess eight thirty sounded like 53 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:53.800 a good time tomorrow. So we got all of us 54 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:56.840 and sky Mathis will be joining us. So I have 55 00:02:56.919 --> 00:02:59.319 no problem going live. But if everybody else is functioning, uh, 56 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:01.240 you know, maybe we'll go live and you can catch 57 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:04.479 us tomorrow morning if you're up. Uh. Now let's move 58 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:07.479 on to the guests. Uh, we got Richard Ruac. What 59 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:09.919 is going on? Sir? How are you please let everybody 60 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:11.400 know where they can find all your amazing work? 61 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:13.360 How do you have? 62 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.719 I'm Richard live live from Dranalake Castle. 63 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:17.800 Uh. 64 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:19.439 You can find me on YouTube, you can find me 65 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:22.719 on substack, can find me on Twitter or x as 66 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:25.599 they call it nowadays. Yeah, I make I make some 67 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:29.319 silly content and uh, you know usually join me on Sundays, 68 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:31.199 this time for a little malope whole screen. But I 69 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:34.120 gave that up today because I need to we need 70 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:36.879 to definitely fally prove once and for all that the 71 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:41.879 true key to spirituality is not psychedelics but male patent boldness. 72 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:42.280 Let's go. 73 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:46.680 Let's sorry everyone else, but that's the key. 74 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:49.000 That's the key, Yo, I shit you not. Earlier I 75 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:50.719 was thinking, I was like, Yo, it was like if 76 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:52.360 like if I came on the show too. I was like, 77 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:53.840 you know, how many bold motherfucker is I going to 78 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:56.400 be on the show tonight? I was thinking about that. 79 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:57.719 I was like, yo, is there something up with a 80 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:02.360 cult this and going bold fucking weird? But Richard, thank 81 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:04.280 you so much for coming on. Man. You did a 82 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:06.080 great job when you came on for the Rose Accrucianism. 83 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:08.879 Everybody loved You're already a fan favorite, so I'm really 84 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:11.280 looking forward to having you back on, especially for this topic. 85 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.639 And finally other guests, another one who's been on before. 86 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:17.680 I had a great time with the dude, everybody loved 87 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:20.199 it as well, and looking forward to hopefully working with 88 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:23.399 them more often. Colin Concrete, please let everybody know where 89 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:25.240 they can find your show and let them know where 90 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:26.480 you're going to be speaking in April. 91 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:32.079 Yeah yeah, thanks for having me on once again, Colin Concrete. 92 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:36.680 You can find me an American esoteric on YouTube, substack writer, 93 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:40.199 researcher going on over twelve years now. So glad to 94 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:42.800 have a you know, an avenue to actually get this 95 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:45.879 get this material out there. I'll be speaking at the 96 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:51.160 Southeastern Masonic Symposium on April twenty fifth at the Ashville 97 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:54.160 Masonic Lodge. So go check that out. If you look 98 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:56.959 it up, you'll see an event bright link and there's 99 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.480 like digital links. You don't have to be a Freemason 100 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.560 to attend, so that that should be really really fun. 101 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:06.839 Mm hmm yeah, definitely check it out. We got uh, 102 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:09.439 we got Colin Concrete speaking, Mike Baker will be there, 103 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.759 Tom Carter, and the keynote speaker will be John Michael Greer. 104 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:15.959 I will be there, so if you show up, I'll 105 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:17.600 smoke one with you. If you happen to be a 106 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:19.759 fan of the show, Ma Me Believing TOSSI a T shirt, 107 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:23.720 So uh yeah, come through. It should be fun and 108 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:28.959 uh yeah all that so guys anti psych on not 109 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:32.399 I know I was saying to you guys earlier, it's 110 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:34.839 a very interesting topic to do. I'm totally down with it. 111 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:36.879 A couple of weeks ago I had somebody on that 112 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:41.600 was completely other way, and I do appreciate my opinion. 113 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:43.519 I don't think the drugs are needed. It was still 114 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:45.879 an interesting topic, so I appreciate you guys coming on 115 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.839 and actually covering it the other way. So I guess 116 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:52.959 maybe we'll start with Richard. I guess what was it 117 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:54.759 that made you kind of like think about bringing this 118 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.199 at the table? Do you think it's like something that 119 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:58.560 needs to be talked about nowadays? 120 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:04.639 Yes, I'm very because I'm very passionate about the work, 121 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:11.439 and one thing I don't want for other people is 122 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:16.240 to get stuck like I love. There's a Jorge Lewis Borgius, 123 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:19.040 the author. There's like one line in one of his 124 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:21.199 stories where he says something like he's a bit of 125 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:24.360 a neo gnostic, where he says something like, you know, 126 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:27.000 even if I be condemned to Hell, let heaven exist 127 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:29.839 for others. It's like, even if even if I don't 128 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:33.879 make it, it's like someone else surely can. And so 129 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:37.879 where I see dead ends and you know, the ultimate 130 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:40.439 dead end is the path with no effort for the 131 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.920 path with no obstacles, the path with no obstacles away. 132 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:46.680 I always feel like the easiest way doesn't work out 133 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:47.040 the best. 134 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:53.399 Yeah, exactly, exactly, And a lot of people it has 135 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:59.360 become a modern meme of mixing drugs and substances with 136 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:02.000 spiritual and a lot of them they go back into 137 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:04.600 history and cherry pick or and say that they're doing this, 138 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:07.120 and it's it's the exact same thing, just like the 139 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:10.360 Elusian mysteries. We're doing the exact same thing by you know, 140 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:12.639 taking heroin and LSD and going to a rave. No, 141 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:18.279 it's these things, and it's I want to I want 142 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:22.399 to preface as well. They have their place, but they 143 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:25.800 need to be in their place. Anything out of their 144 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:30.079 out of its place, becomes all consuming and fundamentally damaging. 145 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:34.480 And so through this talk or throughout like you know, 146 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.279 I'll back and forth, I wanna I want to handle 147 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:42.879 the home my thesis that drugs can be used for healing, 148 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:46.720 certainly psychedelics can be used for healing. There is a 149 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:53.680 therapeutic benefit two these uh two LSD, two d MT 150 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:58.800 two ayahuasca. Whatever there is certainly therapeutic benefits to them. 151 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:03.360 But healing is not the same as regeneration. Creating a 152 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:06.560 new organ or regrowing an arm is very different from 153 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:12.120 healing trauma or a scratch. And so you know, if healing, 154 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:14.879 if you have a baseline number zero and you come sick, 155 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:17.560 you go minus, you go minus ten, minus twenty. Healing 156 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.000 brings you back to zero. I'm not interested in that. 157 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:22.519 What takes you beyond zero, What takes you to plus 158 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:24.879 ten plus twenty plus one hundred, What takes you all 159 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:27.120 the way to the sky, to the absolute, to the 160 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:32.080 different dimensions, to the heavens, What takes you beyond merely human, 161 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:35.600 I'm not interested in. And this is and this is 162 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:38.159 going to sound harsh, but I think people we need 163 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:42.240 to be harsh. There's been too much flower, flower and hugs. 164 00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:45.360 I think I need to say it's being a loser 165 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:49.960 and then becoming a normal person has nothing to do 166 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:55.919 with spirituality or initiation. And it's it's great, it's great 167 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:59.399 that your cousin who was you know, didn't have a 168 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:02.000 job and was broken person went to an ajuasca shaman 169 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:04.320 and now he's a functioning member of society. But that 170 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:08.000 has nothing to do with initiation, and that's what I 171 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:09.519 hope we can talk about today. 172 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:14.279 Very well, said sir. I like that. Uh, Colin, what 173 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:14.799 about you? 174 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:20.120 Yeah, I'm I'm pretty much in agreement with with Richard 175 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:24.399 on on a lot of this. You know, it's I 176 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.440 think the the issue is because a lot of folks 177 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:30.639 that are that are pretty well read in this stuff, 178 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:34.159 and they're they're they're kind of open minded. You know, 179 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:36.559 maybe they'll maybe they'll take a psychedelic and they don't 180 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:40.720 form a super big dogmatic opinion about it. But but 181 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:42.519 the issue is sort of always with this kind of 182 00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:45.559 dogmatism and whatnot. So you'll get a lot of people that, 183 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:49.399 you know, they'll have their psychedelic experience, but they won't 184 00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:52.039 have any kind of natural experience that this sort of 185 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:55.639 equates to that. And then it's really easy from from 186 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:59.039 that perspective to be like, oh, this must be this 187 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:02.519 is what the mysteries about, this is why people have religion, 188 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:04.600 et cetera, et cetera. It becomes this blanket that you 189 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:08.559 throw on everything. This is usually always an incorrect thing 190 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:11.480 to do with with any kind of conclusion, is to 191 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:13.480 just just throw it out there. Is like this is 192 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.240 the end all be all. So the big, the big 193 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:20.279 critique here is against like the psychedelic maximalists, the ones 194 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:23.000 that you want to say it's it's all psychedelics, it 195 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:25.840 must have originated from psychedelics. The only time you can 196 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:29.759 see entities and communicate with these other intelligences is during 197 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:34.799 these radical states of being on psychedelics. And that's just 198 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:39.240 reductionary and dogmatic and everything else. And it's just not 199 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:42.000 it's not the case. So a lot of people want 200 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:46.360 to impose that on the Eleusinian mysteries in particular. But 201 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:48.960 of course there was a lot of other mystery rights 202 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:53.159 and and you know, ceremonial rights going around, especially the 203 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:57.720 Eastern Mediterranean, you know, in the ancient world, and a 204 00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:01.000 lot of the actual initiates of those mysteries wrote about them, 205 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:03.639 and we have their extracts. You know, even though we've 206 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:07.759 lost ninety nine point nine percent of all ancient literature 207 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:11.559 from all the languages, you know, we still have these, uh, 208 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:16.799 these rich descriptions of the mysteries. And of course, being 209 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:20.600 that they're mysteries, they're always vowed to secrecy to some degree, 210 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:24.000 so they you know, usually the initiates, as we see 211 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.960 with Plutarch, even Herodotus. Right, they'll come up to this 212 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:29.200 point and then they'll say we can say no more. Right, 213 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:32.120 that's just freemasons do that till this day. That's a 214 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:35.919 common practice in these kind of initiatory rights. But from 215 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:38.840 the descriptions that we do have, for instance, the one 216 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.720 I'm going to read at some point tonight from Strabo, 217 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:45.200 which is very lengthy, and from a lot of these 218 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:49.120 other descriptions, you know, we get the idea that when 219 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:53.600 these rights were performed correctly, So for like the Olusinian rites, 220 00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:57.000 there was like thirty thousand people that could see a 221 00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:00.159 certain drama play out. Then there was three thousand, and 222 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:02.799 then it got reduced to like a handful of people 223 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:07.559 that could actually get initiated in the teleisterion, right, And 224 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:11.440 so those are the individuals that when I'm talking about 225 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:14.799 what is happening in the mysteries and these initiat initiation rights, 226 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:20.559 is that smaller percentage of the initiates there. And the 227 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:25.639 description is it basically results in the absence of a 228 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:29.279 fear of death and the coming close to us, to 229 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:34.360 a state quite close to death and realizing immortality. And 230 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.200 then you're then you come back with a whole different perspective, 231 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:40.159 and maybe in this visionary experience you've encountered gods and 232 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:44.519 goddesses and so forth. So that's that indicates that there's 233 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:49.159 this radical experience going on, right. And here's the deal. 234 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:52.000 It's if you think it's just a psychedelic, you know, 235 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.440 because all it takes for a psychedelic is you just 236 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:57.720 swallow something and then there's an experience after that. But 237 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:01.639 for these mysteries, in some cases, people were preparing for 238 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:06.559 six months in advance. Right. They're fasting, they're marching, you know, along, 239 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:09.759 they're they're conversing with people from all of these different countries, 240 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:12.919 they're doing all of these practices. There's a there's a 241 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:16.120 level of anticipation there. It's like hitting you on all 242 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:20.000 of these different sensory stimuli. Right. So, for instance, in 243 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:25.000 Strabo's uh description of the mysteries is he he says 244 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:27.600 that you know, they're performed kind of in accordance with 245 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.639 like a festival, and in that, you know the candidates 246 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:33.919 that will be singing and dancing going on over here, 247 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:36.840 there will be an oration over there, deep discussion about 248 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:40.159 something over here, you know, singing and chanting kind of 249 00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:43.759 getting out of your comfort zone, altering your state of being. Meanwhile, 250 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:47.720 there's all this anticipation there, there's like this group mindset mentality. 251 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:50.759 So all of these you know, there's no drug that 252 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:54.679 is needed here. These are just like natural stimuli coming 253 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.559 in and you know, those in the in and of 254 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:02.960 themselves and lead to these radical experiences, even out of 255 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:06.080 body experiences and so on. And we you know, we 256 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:10.799 have good even modern institutions, let's say the Monroe Institute 257 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:13.879 and so forth, they don't require psychedelics for any of 258 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.559 their out of body experience training and this or that. 259 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:22.240 So it's it's just objectively, the psychedelic maximalist argument is 260 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:25.840 just incorrect in terms of the source material and the 261 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:29.360 available scientific data that we have right now. So it's 262 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:32.039 it's just kind of like it just gets disappointing. And 263 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:34.399 I think Richard agrees with me here, is that it's 264 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:38.519 disappointing that people want to, you know, corner everything to 265 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:42.519 the psychedelics when there's so much easily accessible data out 266 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:45.799 there that just says otherwise, right, And so that's you know, 267 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:49.960 that's kind of where I begin my kind of approach 268 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:51.240 to this. This whole thing. 269 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:58.320 Well fellas oh, I was gonna say that from the 270 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.480 sort of alchemical perspective, it's dose that makes the poison. 271 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:05.039 And living in a democratic society where you've got to 272 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.840 change these laws and do this and that so that 273 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:09.960 you can have the freedom to take a substance, what 274 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:13.960 you find is that people are overdosing on the sales 275 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:17.480 pitch for why these things need to be legalized. Whereas 276 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:20.440 if you had, you know, sort of a society that 277 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.440 didn't view putting substances in your body like this as 278 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:27.240 being a bad thing, I think the rationale would be 279 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.360 to moderate more. But I think it's the sales pitch 280 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:35.240 that really ruins it for everybody, because you have to 281 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:40.200 create an overwhelming intellectual force to get anything done. Whereas, 282 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:44.600 you know, in a different situation, let's say the Ollucinian mysteries, 283 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:47.360 it wasn't that big of a deal to have, you know, 284 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.039 a small amount of psychedelic in the wine and then 285 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.879 you know, go from there, as opposed to this being 286 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:58.320 the only path now because that's what everybody's talking about. 287 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.240 Yeah, yeah, there's there's a there's a popularity to the 288 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:06.039 psychedelics now that is uh sort of it's it's very 289 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:10.759 indicative of the kind of limitations that that we live under, 290 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:12.840 at least in terms of our belief systems, and like 291 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:16.279 what is you know, what our daily life uh looks like. 292 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:20.200 So it's like, you know, the kind of the kind 293 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:22.720 of culture that that we're in, we're sort of masters 294 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:25.919 of limitations, and we love these easy fixes. We love 295 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:29.399 these quick gratifications and stuff, especially if it if it 296 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:32.399 meets our physical desires and if we can you know, 297 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:35.879 incorporate it into some erotic fantasy and things like this. 298 00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:39.679 So that's that's sort of an abuse, an abuse of 299 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:42.240 these things. And it's like, you know, it's one thing 300 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:45.200 to do that, do it once or twice and and whatnot, 301 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:49.120 but then you can get into a sort of psychedelic 302 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:52.799 induced mental mental illness, and you know, so there's a 303 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:55.320 danger aspect of it of it there that the sort 304 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.919 of recreational community, you know, Yeah, we need to talk 305 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:00.919 about that, the danger see or the set and setting. 306 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:03.919 So apply all of these you know, standards of safety. 307 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:07.160 But you know, I can steal man the psyche the 308 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:10.519 pro psychedelic argument. I can never steel man the psychedelic 309 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:13.599 maximalist argument that it's only that right, I can because 310 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:18.079 that's clearly not the case. But psychedelics have a place 311 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.359 here and they do occasionally come up, and you know, 312 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:24.200 the ancient literature and these very bizarre you know, it's 313 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:28.400 like in the Pika Trix there's this thing like, you know, 314 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:32.680 one of the different hermes is produces this this like 315 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:37.799 psychedelic oil by throwing opium and human blood and like 316 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.200 sesame oil into a jar with a head, putting it 317 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:44.359 over charcoals for twenty four hours and then you know, 318 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:47.079 straining the liquid and if you rub it on you 319 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:49.440 you it says you will see whatever you want to see, 320 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:51.359 and if you ingest it, you will see whatever you 321 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:53.759 want to see. So it's like, we don't really know 322 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:56.559 what substance he's talking about, but it is it is 323 00:17:56.599 --> 00:17:59.599 at least kind of indicative that, okay, you know, someone 324 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:04.279 somewhat where in this kind of milieu possibly possess some 325 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:06.599 kind of substance that they could see visions with and 326 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:11.359 everything else. But usually when I find these these indications 327 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.960 of some kind of psychedelic going on, it's not clear. 328 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.400 It's not really telling you that the kaikon is you know, 329 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:21.359 it is what is doing this, It is what is 330 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:25.480 allowing you to like not fear death. It's never that clear, 331 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:28.160 and you would think that it would be that clear 332 00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:30.519 if it was the the end all be all, And 333 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:33.480 that's that's the issue, is that, like even Brian murra 334 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:37.240 Rescues Immortality Key, you know, we come so far into 335 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:40.480 that book and yet we're so inconclusive. And don't get 336 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.880 me wrong, I love the scholarly effort that it takes 337 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:45.759 to try to make these makes these things. You know, 338 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:48.720 let them please continue your research, you know, because I'm 339 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.519 interested in finding the truth. And like, if we can't 340 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:55.119 find that the kaikion isn't isn't what you know, isn't 341 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:58.039 like an l I LSD kind of thing, then we're 342 00:18:58.079 --> 00:18:59.559 sort of gonna have to do away with that and 343 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.039 get right back to, you know, what the initiates themselves 344 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:05.359 were telling it was going on. 345 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:07.960 So yeah, if I can add to that as well. 346 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:13.960 One of the other problems with modern society is, as 347 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:17.519 opposed to these ancient societies which had these initiatic cults, 348 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:23.559 in modern society we fundamentally have a materialist metaphysics. And 349 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:27.559 this is incredibly problematic as well, because the ancient sore 350 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.599 of the spirit world, they had an understanding they weren't 351 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:37.319 all atheists In modern day society, there's this reaction against 352 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:41.920 the institutionalized religions, like we don't want a priest class 353 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:44.920 regulating access to the other world. 354 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:46.480 But the problem of. 355 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:50.400 That then there becomes this kind of atheistic thing of 356 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:54.240 is does that world even exist? And some people get 357 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.000 it in their heads that the only way to kind 358 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.839 of break the veil becomes psychedelics. It's almost like this 359 00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:06.559 latent materialism within psychedelics. The you know, oh, the beings, 360 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:10.079 the ghosts, the goblins, gods, angels, they don't really exist. 361 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:12.559 They're just part of your mind or you can only 362 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:17.000 use psych It's something material, It's something external to myself 363 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:20.119 that I put into my interior to change the interior thing. 364 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:25.200 Whereas in the initiatic schools there were always techniques, a technology, 365 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:28.880 a system, an engine that's internal that uses the internal 366 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:32.799 to change the internal, rather than getting an external force 367 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:37.000 to change the external. So I and that's another reason 368 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:40.119 why I react against psychedelics and the use of drugs, 369 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:43.680 is because to me, I see a subtle materialism behind them. 370 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:46.920 It's like, you need to use this this to get 371 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:47.839 to the spirit world. 372 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:50.319 I've even which I think is kind of funny. I 373 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:52.680 think I've seen it said about Jesus and maybe other 374 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:55.559 people that they were supposedly taking mushrooms and that's how 375 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:58.680 they had their experience. It's just like, you know what 376 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:00.599 I'm saying, It's just like, oh, I guess you got 377 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:02.279 to do it that way to be like that. It's 378 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:04.359 just like what you can't even give that guy credit 379 00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:05.599 and say you did it their meditations. 380 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:12.680 My reaction against that is always, look, look, buddy, if 381 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:16.279 if it really was the be all and endul the 382 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:19.519 Bible wouldn't exist, the daldi ching wouldn't exist, the vaders 383 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:22.000 wouldn't exist. There would be no Buddha Sutras because you 384 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.440 wouldn't need teachings. There would just be stories of wise 385 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:27.640 men going around popping mushrooms in people's mouths. Like we 386 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:29.759 wouldn't have any sacred texts because we wouldn't need them. 387 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:32.119 It would just all be mushrooms, just be mushroom tea, 388 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.799 different techniques for mushroom tea. And yet we have these 389 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:39.480 sacred texts, We have systems, We have manuals for how 390 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:42.440 to meditate, for how to do prayer, for ceremonial magic, 391 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:46.240 these these technologies exist so. 392 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:51.799 Yeah, well, I'm sorry, Ethan, I think you're about to speak. 393 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:54.279 I was just going to say, real quick, just actually 394 00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:57.440 what you said that we are, you know, looking for 395 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:01.799 the quick fix. I think that stems from a really 396 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:07.200 laziness and a lack of taking responsibility for all the 397 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:13.559 preparatory processes that might go into self development and conscious 398 00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:17.160 development that then might have, you know, the bonus of 399 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:22.519 something like a psychedelic ceremony four months into the process. 400 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:25.839 It might be a nice influence, but I think it's 401 00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:29.559