Speaker 1: You see somethings are going to happen? What What's gonna happen?
Speaker 2: What a.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Occult Rejects. This episode we got
Speaker 1: two bangers with us. We got two big guests and
Speaker 1: two returning guys that have only had on the show
Speaker 1: once but already already loved what they brought together and
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what they do together as
Speaker 1: a team. But before we get to Colin and Richard,
Speaker 1: let me introduce the other rejects. And we got my
Speaker 1: man the Headless Giant. What is going on? Sir? How
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 3: How's it going? You can find me on YouTube on Twitter,
Speaker 3: And I've got a bunch of shows tomorrow. I'm doing
Speaker 3: the trialogue with either Indigo and hopefully Recard Calbodio, and
Speaker 3: we're going to be talking about any sort of topics
Speaker 3: and usually they all relate back to each other. Then
Speaker 3: I got seven seven seven on Tuesdays with Nick and
Speaker 3: we go through the Kabbala of Alistair Crowley, which is
Speaker 3: a very interesting show. And then the mail Bags on Thursday.
Speaker 3: Head List is magical mail Bag. We go over some
Speaker 3: of your emails about occult experiences that you can send
Speaker 3: to us at the Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3: And also we're doing a remote viewing audience participation, so
Speaker 3: definitely check those out.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, so thank you for thank you
Speaker 1: for joining us today. And Ethan Indigo, what is going on?
Speaker 1: Please let everybody know what they can find all your
Speaker 1: amazing work and your books.
Speaker 4: Salute everybody. Thank you Nick for putting all this together,
Speaker 4: and thank you guys for being here. I know this
Speaker 4: is going to be awesome topic. It's very contrarian for
Speaker 4: most of the things up there right now, so appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Ethan Indigo Smith on all the social media pretty easy
Speaker 4: to find. And yeah, I like to get together with
Speaker 4: ad Listen Ricarda every week and always like to be
Speaker 4: on any show with the Colt Reject. So appreciate you guys.
Speaker 1: Thank you so appreciating making it.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, my books, I got plenty of books I
Speaker 4: forgot even even as your minded me, Nick, I forgot.
Speaker 4: The Geometry of Energy is actually a free book right
Speaker 4: now if if people want to check it.
Speaker 1: Out, so well, that is awesome, dude, nice, very nice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely go check out Ethan's books. I mean, he's got
Speaker 1: a fuck ton of them. Actually he never pulls them,
Speaker 1: but uh, thank you Ethan. And I guess before I
Speaker 1: introduced them to I guess for the listeners, I just
Speaker 1: want to let them know that I think, well, I'm
Speaker 1: going to ask see how everybody else is feeling. But
Speaker 1: there's a good possibility we might be going live at
Speaker 1: eight thirty in the fucking morning tomorrow morning. We got
Speaker 1: David James Smith coming on, and I guess I coordinated
Speaker 1: with him and somehow, I guess eight thirty sounded like
Speaker 1: a good time tomorrow. So we got all of us
Speaker 1: and sky Mathis will be joining us. So I have
Speaker 1: no problem going live. But if everybody else is functioning, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we'll go live and you can catch
Speaker 1: us tomorrow morning if you're up. Uh. Now let's move
Speaker 1: on to the guests. Uh, we got Richard Ruac. What
Speaker 1: is going on? Sir? How are you please let everybody
Speaker 1: know where they can find all your amazing work?
Speaker 5: How do you have?
Speaker 2: I'm Richard live live from Dranalake Castle.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: You can find me on YouTube, you can find me
Speaker 2: on substack, can find me on Twitter or x as
Speaker 2: they call it nowadays. Yeah, I make I make some
Speaker 2: silly content and uh, you know usually join me on Sundays,
Speaker 2: this time for a little malope whole screen. But I
Speaker 2: gave that up today because I need to we need
Speaker 2: to definitely fally prove once and for all that the
Speaker 2: true key to spirituality is not psychedelics but male patent boldness.
Speaker 5: Let's go.
Speaker 2: Let's sorry everyone else, but that's the key.
Speaker 1: That's the key, Yo, I shit you not. Earlier I
Speaker 1: was thinking, I was like, Yo, it was like if
Speaker 1: like if I came on the show too. I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, how many bold motherfucker is I going to
Speaker 1: be on the show tonight? I was thinking about that.
Speaker 1: I was like, yo, is there something up with a
Speaker 1: cult this and going bold fucking weird? But Richard, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on. Man. You did a
Speaker 1: great job when you came on for the Rose Accrucianism.
Speaker 1: Everybody loved You're already a fan favorite, so I'm really
Speaker 1: looking forward to having you back on, especially for this topic.
Speaker 1: And finally other guests, another one who's been on before.
Speaker 1: I had a great time with the dude, everybody loved
Speaker 1: it as well, and looking forward to hopefully working with
Speaker 1: them more often. Colin Concrete, please let everybody know where
Speaker 1: they can find your show and let them know where
Speaker 1: you're going to be speaking in April.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, thanks for having me on once again, Colin Concrete.
Speaker 5: You can find me an American esoteric on YouTube, substack writer,
Speaker 5: researcher going on over twelve years now. So glad to
Speaker 5: have a you know, an avenue to actually get this
Speaker 5: get this material out there. I'll be speaking at the
Speaker 5: Southeastern Masonic Symposium on April twenty fifth at the Ashville
Speaker 5: Masonic Lodge. So go check that out. If you look
Speaker 5: it up, you'll see an event bright link and there's
Speaker 5: like digital links. You don't have to be a Freemason
Speaker 5: to attend, so that that should be really really fun.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm yeah, definitely check it out. We got uh,
Speaker 1: we got Colin Concrete speaking, Mike Baker will be there,
Speaker 1: Tom Carter, and the keynote speaker will be John Michael Greer.
Speaker 1: I will be there, so if you show up, I'll
Speaker 1: smoke one with you. If you happen to be a
Speaker 1: fan of the show, Ma Me Believing TOSSI a T shirt,
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, come through. It should be fun and
Speaker 1: uh yeah all that so guys anti psych on not
Speaker 1: I know I was saying to you guys earlier, it's
Speaker 1: a very interesting topic to do. I'm totally down with it.
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago I had somebody on that
Speaker 1: was completely other way, and I do appreciate my opinion.
Speaker 1: I don't think the drugs are needed. It was still
Speaker 1: an interesting topic, so I appreciate you guys coming on
Speaker 1: and actually covering it the other way. So I guess
Speaker 1: maybe we'll start with Richard. I guess what was it
Speaker 1: that made you kind of like think about bringing this
Speaker 1: at the table? Do you think it's like something that
Speaker 1: needs to be talked about nowadays?
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm very because I'm very passionate about the work,
Speaker 2: and one thing I don't want for other people is
Speaker 2: to get stuck like I love. There's a Jorge Lewis Borgius,
Speaker 2: the author. There's like one line in one of his
Speaker 2: stories where he says something like he's a bit of
Speaker 2: a neo gnostic, where he says something like, you know,
Speaker 2: even if I be condemned to Hell, let heaven exist
Speaker 2: for others. It's like, even if even if I don't
Speaker 2: make it, it's like someone else surely can. And so
Speaker 2: where I see dead ends and you know, the ultimate
Speaker 2: dead end is the path with no effort for the
Speaker 2: path with no obstacles, the path with no obstacles away.
Speaker 1: I always feel like the easiest way doesn't work out
Speaker 1: the best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly, And a lot of people it has
Speaker 2: become a modern meme of mixing drugs and substances with
Speaker 2: spiritual and a lot of them they go back into
Speaker 2: history and cherry pick or and say that they're doing this,
Speaker 2: and it's it's the exact same thing, just like the
Speaker 2: Elusian mysteries. We're doing the exact same thing by you know,
Speaker 2: taking heroin and LSD and going to a rave. No,
Speaker 2: it's these things, and it's I want to I want
Speaker 2: to preface as well. They have their place, but they
Speaker 2: need to be in their place. Anything out of their
Speaker 2: out of its place, becomes all consuming and fundamentally damaging.
Speaker 2: And so through this talk or throughout like you know,
Speaker 2: I'll back and forth, I wanna I want to handle
Speaker 2: the home my thesis that drugs can be used for healing,
Speaker 2: certainly psychedelics can be used for healing. There is a
Speaker 2: therapeutic benefit two these uh two LSD, two d MT
Speaker 2: two ayahuasca. Whatever there is certainly therapeutic benefits to them.
Speaker 2: But healing is not the same as regeneration. Creating a
Speaker 2: new organ or regrowing an arm is very different from
Speaker 2: healing trauma or a scratch. And so you know, if healing,
Speaker 2: if you have a baseline number zero and you come sick,
Speaker 2: you go minus, you go minus ten, minus twenty. Healing
Speaker 2: brings you back to zero. I'm not interested in that.
Speaker 2: What takes you beyond zero, What takes you to plus
Speaker 2: ten plus twenty plus one hundred, What takes you all
Speaker 2: the way to the sky, to the absolute, to the
Speaker 2: different dimensions, to the heavens, What takes you beyond merely human,
Speaker 2: I'm not interested in. And this is and this is
Speaker 2: going to sound harsh, but I think people we need
Speaker 2: to be harsh. There's been too much flower, flower and hugs.
Speaker 2: I think I need to say it's being a loser
Speaker 2: and then becoming a normal person has nothing to do
Speaker 2: with spirituality or initiation. And it's it's great, it's great
Speaker 2: that your cousin who was you know, didn't have a
Speaker 2: job and was broken person went to an ajuasca shaman
Speaker 2: and now he's a functioning member of society. But that
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with initiation, and that's what I
Speaker 2: hope we can talk about today.
Speaker 1: Very well, said sir. I like that. Uh, Colin, what
Speaker 1: about you?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm I'm pretty much in agreement with with Richard
Speaker 5: on on a lot of this. You know, it's I
Speaker 5: think the the issue is because a lot of folks
Speaker 5: that are that are pretty well read in this stuff,
Speaker 5: and they're they're they're kind of open minded. You know,
Speaker 5: maybe they'll maybe they'll take a psychedelic and they don't
Speaker 5: form a super big dogmatic opinion about it. But but
Speaker 5: the issue is sort of always with this kind of
Speaker 5: dogmatism and whatnot. So you'll get a lot of people that,
Speaker 5: you know, they'll have their psychedelic experience, but they won't
Speaker 5: have any kind of natural experience that this sort of
Speaker 5: equates to that. And then it's really easy from from
Speaker 5: that perspective to be like, oh, this must be this
Speaker 5: is what the mysteries about, this is why people have religion,
Speaker 5: et cetera, et cetera. It becomes this blanket that you
Speaker 5: throw on everything. This is usually always an incorrect thing
Speaker 5: to do with with any kind of conclusion, is to
Speaker 5: just just throw it out there. Is like this is
Speaker 5: the end all be all. So the big, the big
Speaker 5: critique here is against like the psychedelic maximalists, the ones
Speaker 5: that you want to say it's it's all psychedelics, it
Speaker 5: must have originated from psychedelics. The only time you can
Speaker 5: see entities and communicate with these other intelligences is during
Speaker 5: these radical states of being on psychedelics. And that's just
Speaker 5: reductionary and dogmatic and everything else. And it's just not
Speaker 5: it's not the case. So a lot of people want
Speaker 5: to impose that on the Eleusinian mysteries in particular. But
Speaker 5: of course there was a lot of other mystery rights
Speaker 5: and and you know, ceremonial rights going around, especially the
Speaker 5: Eastern Mediterranean, you know, in the ancient world, and a
Speaker 5: lot of the actual initiates of those mysteries wrote about them,
Speaker 5: and we have their extracts. You know, even though we've
Speaker 5: lost ninety nine point nine percent of all ancient literature
Speaker 5: from all the languages, you know, we still have these, uh,
Speaker 5: these rich descriptions of the mysteries. And of course, being
Speaker 5: that they're mysteries, they're always vowed to secrecy to some degree,
Speaker 5: so they you know, usually the initiates, as we see
Speaker 5: with Plutarch, even Herodotus. Right, they'll come up to this
Speaker 5: point and then they'll say we can say no more. Right,
Speaker 5: that's just freemasons do that till this day. That's a
Speaker 5: common practice in these kind of initiatory rights. But from
Speaker 5: the descriptions that we do have, for instance, the one
Speaker 5: I'm going to read at some point tonight from Strabo,
Speaker 5: which is very lengthy, and from a lot of these
Speaker 5: other descriptions, you know, we get the idea that when
Speaker 5: these rights were performed correctly, So for like the Olusinian rites,
Speaker 5: there was like thirty thousand people that could see a
Speaker 5: certain drama play out. Then there was three thousand, and
Speaker 5: then it got reduced to like a handful of people
Speaker 5: that could actually get initiated in the teleisterion, right, And
Speaker 5: so those are the individuals that when I'm talking about
Speaker 5: what is happening in the mysteries and these initiat initiation rights,
Speaker 5: is that smaller percentage of the initiates there. And the
Speaker 5: description is it basically results in the absence of a
Speaker 5: fear of death and the coming close to us, to
Speaker 5: a state quite close to death and realizing immortality. And
Speaker 5: then you're then you come back with a whole different perspective,
Speaker 5: and maybe in this visionary experience you've encountered gods and
Speaker 5: goddesses and so forth. So that's that indicates that there's
Speaker 5: this radical experience going on, right. And here's the deal.
Speaker 5: It's if you think it's just a psychedelic, you know,
Speaker 5: because all it takes for a psychedelic is you just
Speaker 5: swallow something and then there's an experience after that. But
Speaker 5: for these mysteries, in some cases, people were preparing for
Speaker 5: six months in advance. Right. They're fasting, they're marching, you know, along,
Speaker 5: they're they're conversing with people from all of these different countries,
Speaker 5: they're doing all of these practices. There's a there's a
Speaker 5: level of anticipation there. It's like hitting you on all
Speaker 5: of these different sensory stimuli. Right. So, for instance, in
Speaker 5: Strabo's uh description of the mysteries is he he says
Speaker 5: that you know, they're performed kind of in accordance with
Speaker 5: like a festival, and in that, you know the candidates
Speaker 5: that will be singing and dancing going on over here,
Speaker 5: there will be an oration over there, deep discussion about
Speaker 5: something over here, you know, singing and chanting kind of
Speaker 5: getting out of your comfort zone, altering your state of being. Meanwhile,
Speaker 5: there's all this anticipation there, there's like this group mindset mentality.
Speaker 5: So all of these you know, there's no drug that
Speaker 5: is needed here. These are just like natural stimuli coming
Speaker 5: in and you know, those in the in and of
Speaker 5: themselves and lead to these radical experiences, even out of
Speaker 5: body experiences and so on. And we you know, we
Speaker 5: have good even modern institutions, let's say the Monroe Institute
Speaker 5: and so forth, they don't require psychedelics for any of
Speaker 5: their out of body experience training and this or that.
Speaker 5: So it's it's just objectively, the psychedelic maximalist argument is
Speaker 5: just incorrect in terms of the source material and the
Speaker 5: available scientific data that we have right now. So it's
Speaker 5: it's just kind of like it just gets disappointing. And
Speaker 5: I think Richard agrees with me here, is that it's
Speaker 5: disappointing that people want to, you know, corner everything to
Speaker 5: the psychedelics when there's so much easily accessible data out
Speaker 5: there that just says otherwise, right, And so that's you know,
Speaker 5: that's kind of where I begin my kind of approach
Speaker 5: to this. This whole thing.
Speaker 3: Well fellas oh, I was gonna say that from the
Speaker 3: sort of alchemical perspective, it's dose that makes the poison.
Speaker 3: And living in a democratic society where you've got to
Speaker 3: change these laws and do this and that so that
Speaker 3: you can have the freedom to take a substance, what
Speaker 3: you find is that people are overdosing on the sales
Speaker 3: pitch for why these things need to be legalized. Whereas
Speaker 3: if you had, you know, sort of a society that
Speaker 3: didn't view putting substances in your body like this as
Speaker 3: being a bad thing, I think the rationale would be
Speaker 3: to moderate more. But I think it's the sales pitch
Speaker 3: that really ruins it for everybody, because you have to
Speaker 3: create an overwhelming intellectual force to get anything done. Whereas,
Speaker 3: you know, in a different situation, let's say the Ollucinian mysteries,
Speaker 3: it wasn't that big of a deal to have, you know,
Speaker 3: a small amount of psychedelic in the wine and then
Speaker 3: you know, go from there, as opposed to this being
Speaker 3: the only path now because that's what everybody's talking about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, there's there's a there's a popularity to the
Speaker 5: psychedelics now that is uh sort of it's it's very
Speaker 5: indicative of the kind of limitations that that we live under,
Speaker 5: at least in terms of our belief systems, and like
Speaker 5: what is you know, what our daily life uh looks like.
Speaker 5: So it's like, you know, the kind of the kind
Speaker 5: of culture that that we're in, we're sort of masters
Speaker 5: of limitations, and we love these easy fixes. We love
Speaker 5: these quick gratifications and stuff, especially if it if it
Speaker 5: meets our physical desires and if we can you know,
Speaker 5: incorporate it into some erotic fantasy and things like this.
Speaker 5: So that's that's sort of an abuse, an abuse of
Speaker 5: these things. And it's like, you know, it's one thing
Speaker 5: to do that, do it once or twice and and whatnot,
Speaker 5: but then you can get into a sort of psychedelic
Speaker 5: induced mental mental illness, and you know, so there's a
Speaker 5: danger aspect of it of it there that the sort
Speaker 5: of recreational community, you know, Yeah, we need to talk
Speaker 5: about that, the danger see or the set and setting.
Speaker 5: So apply all of these you know, standards of safety.
Speaker 5: But you know, I can steal man the psyche the
Speaker 5: pro psychedelic argument. I can never steel man the psychedelic
Speaker 5: maximalist argument that it's only that right, I can because
Speaker 5: that's clearly not the case. But psychedelics have a place
Speaker 5: here and they do occasionally come up, and you know,
Speaker 5: the ancient literature and these very bizarre you know, it's
Speaker 5: like in the Pika Trix there's this thing like, you know,
Speaker 5: one of the different hermes is produces this this like
Speaker 5: psychedelic oil by throwing opium and human blood and like
Speaker 5: sesame oil into a jar with a head, putting it
Speaker 5: over charcoals for twenty four hours and then you know,
Speaker 5: straining the liquid and if you rub it on you
Speaker 5: you it says you will see whatever you want to see,
Speaker 5: and if you ingest it, you will see whatever you
Speaker 5: want to see. So it's like, we don't really know
Speaker 5: what substance he's talking about, but it is it is
Speaker 5: at least kind of indicative that, okay, you know, someone
Speaker 5: somewhat where in this kind of milieu possibly possess some
Speaker 5: kind of substance that they could see visions with and
Speaker 5: everything else. But usually when I find these these indications
Speaker 5: of some kind of psychedelic going on, it's not clear.
Speaker 5: It's not really telling you that the kaikon is you know,
Speaker 5: it is what is doing this, It is what is
Speaker 5: allowing you to like not fear death. It's never that clear,
Speaker 5: and you would think that it would be that clear
Speaker 5: if it was the the end all be all, And
Speaker 5: that's that's the issue, is that, like even Brian murra
Speaker 5: Rescues Immortality Key, you know, we come so far into
Speaker 5: that book and yet we're so inconclusive. And don't get
Speaker 5: me wrong, I love the scholarly effort that it takes
Speaker 5: to try to make these makes these things. You know,
Speaker 5: let them please continue your research, you know, because I'm
Speaker 5: interested in finding the truth. And like, if we can't
Speaker 5: find that the kaikion isn't isn't what you know, isn't
Speaker 5: like an l I LSD kind of thing, then we're
Speaker 5: sort of gonna have to do away with that and
Speaker 5: get right back to, you know, what the initiates themselves
Speaker 5: were telling it was going on.
Speaker 2: So yeah, if I can add to that as well.
Speaker 2: One of the other problems with modern society is, as
Speaker 2: opposed to these ancient societies which had these initiatic cults,
Speaker 2: in modern society we fundamentally have a materialist metaphysics. And
Speaker 2: this is incredibly problematic as well, because the ancient sore
Speaker 2: of the spirit world, they had an understanding they weren't
Speaker 2: all atheists In modern day society, there's this reaction against
Speaker 2: the institutionalized religions, like we don't want a priest class
Speaker 2: regulating access to the other world.
Speaker 5: But the problem of.
Speaker 2: That then there becomes this kind of atheistic thing of
Speaker 2: is does that world even exist? And some people get
Speaker 2: it in their heads that the only way to kind
Speaker 2: of break the veil becomes psychedelics. It's almost like this
Speaker 2: latent materialism within psychedelics. The you know, oh, the beings,
Speaker 2: the ghosts, the goblins, gods, angels, they don't really exist.
Speaker 2: They're just part of your mind or you can only
Speaker 2: use psych It's something material, It's something external to myself
Speaker 2: that I put into my interior to change the interior thing.
Speaker 2: Whereas in the initiatic schools there were always techniques, a technology,
Speaker 2: a system, an engine that's internal that uses the internal
Speaker 2: to change the internal, rather than getting an external force
Speaker 2: to change the external. So I and that's another reason
Speaker 2: why I react against psychedelics and the use of drugs,
Speaker 2: is because to me, I see a subtle materialism behind them.
Speaker 2: It's like, you need to use this this to get
Speaker 2: to the spirit world.
Speaker 1: I've even which I think is kind of funny. I
Speaker 1: think I've seen it said about Jesus and maybe other
Speaker 1: people that they were supposedly taking mushrooms and that's how
Speaker 1: they had their experience. It's just like, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, It's just like, oh, I guess you got
Speaker 1: to do it that way to be like that. It's
Speaker 1: just like what you can't even give that guy credit
Speaker 1: and say you did it their meditations.
Speaker 2: My reaction against that is always, look, look, buddy, if
Speaker 2: if it really was the be all and endul the
Speaker 2: Bible wouldn't exist, the daldi ching wouldn't exist, the vaders
Speaker 2: wouldn't exist. There would be no Buddha Sutras because you
Speaker 2: wouldn't need teachings. There would just be stories of wise
Speaker 2: men going around popping mushrooms in people's mouths. Like we
Speaker 2: wouldn't have any sacred texts because we wouldn't need them.
Speaker 2: It would just all be mushrooms, just be mushroom tea,
Speaker 2: different techniques for mushroom tea. And yet we have these
Speaker 2: sacred texts, We have systems, We have manuals for how
Speaker 2: to meditate, for how to do prayer, for ceremonial magic,
Speaker 2: these these technologies exist so.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I'm sorry, Ethan, I think you're about to speak.
Speaker 4: I was just going to say, real quick, just actually
Speaker 4: what you said that we are, you know, looking for
Speaker 4: the quick fix. I think that stems from a really
Speaker 4: laziness and a lack of taking responsibility for all the
Speaker 4: preparatory processes that might go into self development and conscious
Speaker 4: development that then might have, you know, the bonus of
Speaker 4: something like a psychedelic ceremony four months into the process.
Speaker 4: It might be a nice influence, but I think it's
Speaker 4: a matter of just laziness and yeah, materialism and so forth,
Speaker 4: that we're not getting deep with it in the you know,
Speaker 4: preparation process of itself by itself and just oh yeah,
Speaker 4: let's just have fun. And I'll use it as an
Speaker 4: excuse of my my gnostic pursuits.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the psychedelic experiences, I mean they they can
Speaker 5: take you to such a radical place that you might
Speaker 5: come back to them and you might come back to
Speaker 5: you know, reality and be like, there is you know,
Speaker 5: there's no other way to get to that level of
Speaker 5: vision visionary you know, get to that visionary realm, or
Speaker 5: have these hallucinations you know that appear like that well,
Speaker 5: you know, schizophrenics would disagree in a in a sort
Speaker 5: of way, we don't understand really what's happening there, but
Speaker 5: like they are experiencing, you know, at least the ones
Speaker 5: that I know of, they are experiencing what they're experiencing.
Speaker 5: It might not be real for us, but for them,
Speaker 5: it's totally real, and that's why they're in the situation
Speaker 5: you know that they're in. So there's there's a lot
Speaker 5: of these aspects here. Like so it's it's even it's
Speaker 5: even the idea that psychedelics, you know, it's not clear
Speaker 5: to me that they play even like a more than
Speaker 5: a fifteen percent, like fifteen percent of a that's like
Speaker 5: that's high and in and of itself. So like it's
Speaker 5: it's lower than I think people think. But I do
Speaker 5: admire the effort of you know, certain rec like PD
Speaker 5: Newman for instance. I mean, he does great research to
Speaker 5: try to figure out where the psychedelics actually have their place,
Speaker 5: and like that is commendable other than just without the
Speaker 5: evidence here just sort of saying that that that you know,
Speaker 5: it's everywhere, we can find it everywhere, but it's like
Speaker 5: it really is. You know, it's also indicative that we
Speaker 5: focus on the psychedelics so much is that we've kind
Speaker 5: of we're not putting in the effort with all of
Speaker 5: these different practices. It's like crea yoga and you know,
Speaker 5: different things like like reiki and just all the breath work,
Speaker 5: the things that can happen in you know, holotropic breathing
Speaker 5: and stuff like people will have visions there. So there's
Speaker 5: all of these other natural visionary technologies that we need
Speaker 5: to exhaust. We haven't done that yet. We need to
Speaker 5: exhaust exhaust them, you know, at this more I think
Speaker 5: open level. It's like I think the days of sort
Speaker 5: of keeping all the secrets among your your sort of
Speaker 5: cult and your little initiatic circle or whatever, those days
Speaker 5: are kind of behind us. I mean even Freemasons, even
Speaker 5: Freemasons are openly discussing details of the rituals because they're
Speaker 5: out there already, if you know, you know Duncan's ritual,
Speaker 5: Like you can find all of this stuff already, and
Speaker 5: and so it's like, well, that means the Masons need
Speaker 5: to come in and try to discuss what's going on
Speaker 5: because they're the only ones that have actually experienced it,
Speaker 5: you know, so it's like they can actually talk about it.
Speaker 5: But so it's like the people who experience the mystery
Speaker 5: rights in the ancient world, they also wrote things and
Speaker 5: discussed them, and I just think it's important that let's
Speaker 5: exhaust those sources before we start drawing up these conclusions
Speaker 5: and like groping after what the what the kai ki?
Speaker 5: What the you know, the substance of the drink? Actually?
Speaker 1: Was I.
Speaker 4: Sorry for your part being a low percentage? Wasn't it
Speaker 4: that you were only supposed to attend the Elusian in
Speaker 4: Elusian mysteries once in your lifetime? Right?
Speaker 5: I think that's I think that's the case. I don't
Speaker 5: know of anyone who did it. Did it twice? Yeah,
Speaker 5: at least in that you know, higher circle, you might
Speaker 5: have attended at the audience level. But yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 5: there's like, you know where maybe these psychedelic researchers could
Speaker 5: just do a little bit better research. I might be
Speaker 5: ignorant of the books or something that exists out there,
Speaker 5: but like there are cool accounts that are clearly something
Speaker 5: psychedelic is going on that no one actually discusses, Like
Speaker 5: Michael Sellis in his on the Operations of Demons his book,
Speaker 5: he talks about the Boga Mill sect which is a
Speaker 5: sort of like Manichean kind of gnostic so called group
Speaker 5: of Christians that were allegedly practicing these kind of orgiastic
Speaker 5: rights and you know, summoning demons and so forth. Some
Speaker 5: of this is like a polemic against them from orthodox
Speaker 5: Christian Christian perspective, but in like kind of like a
Speaker 5: side note in one of his descriptions, he says, some
Speaker 5: Vaga bond from Africa, you know, initiated someone on a
Speaker 5: mountain side and like these obscure rights, and he pulled
Speaker 5: out this oil and he rubbed it over this person's eyes.
Speaker 5: And this person clearly is initiated into this kind of
Speaker 5: psychedelic mystery and sees all of these daemon's and stuff,
Speaker 5: and this raven flies into his throat, you know, And
Speaker 5: there is like in certain psychedelic experiences, there's like this
Speaker 5: like Ganesha will put her trunk down your throat or
Speaker 5: something like that and like suck away the negative energy
Speaker 5: or whatever. So it's like that's that's a that's a
Speaker 5: little extract that people should zoom in on. The psychoonatic
Speaker 5: researchers should zoom in on that extract, right, same with
Speaker 5: the text the Revelation of the magi you know, recent
Speaker 5: recent English translation for that, but it's it's like a
Speaker 5: one of a kind apocryphal Christian text, probably late second century,
Speaker 5: and it describes the star that brings the magi to
Speaker 5: baby g Jesus in the you know, the Book of Matthew,
Speaker 5: which sort of fills in the gaps there. And long
Speaker 5: story short, these magi that encounter this orblan like angel
Speaker 5: who is also the Son of God, the pre incarnate
Speaker 5: you know, son of God, Jesus Christ figure himself, and
Speaker 5: out of this this light, the Son of God figure
Speaker 5: gives gives the magi like these provisions and these sacred
Speaker 5: provisions the magi eat and they have clearly have visions
Speaker 5: directly do to uh to these particular provisions and stuff.
Speaker 5: So it's like there's an example that psychedelic researchers could
Speaker 5: hone in on and maybe you know, do something with,
Speaker 5: maybe compare it to other apocryphal accounts, maybe compare it
Speaker 5: to the kind of anointing oil accounts. Right, So it's
Speaker 5: not to say that there aren't mysteries here and worthy investigations.
Speaker 5: There definitely are, but like, let's let's do that, and
Speaker 5: let's let's see what we can unearth from that instead
Speaker 5: of doing this sort of a you know, the game
Speaker 5: of conclusions.
Speaker 2: And I have to say to add on that as well.
Speaker 2: A lot of what I've seen of the ancient sects
Speaker 2: that do use psychedelics in their initiatic rights, it's always
Speaker 2: something kindergarten, and that's something I also want to bring home.
Speaker 2: When drugs are used, it's something at the very early
Speaker 2: basic stages for someone completely new, who's experienced nothing. And
Speaker 2: that's another place where I see it's reasonable nowadays, Like
Speaker 2: if you do have someone who is a complete materialist
Speaker 2: maybe and they just want something like you know, Carlos Castaneda,
Speaker 2: maybe he needed the peyote and he wasn't gonna make
Speaker 2: it otherwise. So it's like the most basic, like kindergarten
Speaker 2: thing you can use that for. But that's not once again,
Speaker 2: the map is not the terrain. The map is not
Speaker 2: the engine. There's two different things, and it's like you're
Speaker 2: not moving on the path. Oh I dissolved my ego
Speaker 2: through that. It's like nah, No, it's like it's the
Speaker 2: most basic thing and then there's a greater work afterwards.
Speaker 3: In a lot of ways, it's like the change in
Speaker 3: perspective is useful for allowing people to shift into other
Speaker 3: frames of consciousness. But if you think about it, like,
Speaker 3: these things are just as symbolic without you even taking them.
Speaker 3: So if you're trying to get in touch with the
Speaker 3: spirits and you've actually done it before on the substance,
Speaker 3: repeating that off of the substance should be the goal,
Speaker 3: because you are actually trying to converse on a normal
Speaker 3: level playing field with the entities over in that realm.
Speaker 3: So what they've done is they've they've mistaken the bridge
Speaker 3: for the only way across the chasm. And that's that
Speaker 3: sort of seems to be the thing with the materialistic elements,
Speaker 3: is that they don't have a conception that maybe these
Speaker 3: things are real outside of the substance.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's always that problem of unearned enlightenment because it
Speaker 5: doesn't have that long term, those long term benefits. Whereas
Speaker 5: someone who's like training and who is coming at these
Speaker 5: things in in earnest and has has like the intentions
Speaker 5: of self improvement and self transformation, they are just naturally
Speaker 5: going to get a better benefit of any kind of
Speaker 5: experiential sort of catharsis. And it's that it's the reverence.
Speaker 5: There's also this reverence that we need to bring into
Speaker 5: these experiences. And it's like everyone's been everyone who's been
Speaker 5: to a music festival these days knows that this shit
Speaker 5: is being done without reverence. It's just like, you know,
Speaker 5: if you're drinking bud light on like three grams of
Speaker 5: shrooms and like also like stucking down a nicotine vape, like, dude,
Speaker 5: that that shits, don't you know? There's a lot going
Speaker 5: on there.
Speaker 1: That's part time. That's not trying to have a spiritual experience.
Speaker 1: That's just party time right.
Speaker 5: There, right right. But it's you know, there's there's clearly
Speaker 5: this there's clearly this sort of mixed this like mixed
Speaker 5: things where the recreational use of psychedelics has kind of
Speaker 5: can can mar some of the at least in the
Speaker 5: terms of the regular cultural kind of understanding of these things.
Speaker 5: It's like, oh, well, you know, the ancients were just
Speaker 5: taking psychedelics. So now the issue is is that these big,
Speaker 5: these big you know, talking heads and these figures on
Speaker 5: these podcasts, they're just sort of the the Eleusinian mysteries.
Speaker 5: It was a psychedelic thing, and like that's it hasn't
Speaker 5: been concluded that strongly. Yet at the at the very best,
Speaker 5: a recent study done on the on the ergod and
Speaker 5: their whole mixture showed that there is a possibility that
Speaker 5: it produced a low grade LSD kind of effect, but
Speaker 5: it would it would have been a very small amount
Speaker 5: if it if it did that. So that's like, I
Speaker 5: think that's the state of that research right now, is
Speaker 5: that there there can be some extraction there, but it's
Speaker 5: extremely low dosage, you know, and I don't think any
Speaker 5: humans have actually tested it out though. That's that's the issue. So, yeah,
Speaker 5: there's there's a lot of these there's a lot of
Speaker 5: these problems, and it would all be solved if people
Speaker 5: read read the books, you know, and and went out
Speaker 5: there and had natural experiences, and you know that they
Speaker 5: could compare and contrast to their psychedelic experiences as well,
Speaker 5: because that's the thing, you know, I've experienced both. And
Speaker 5: yet I'm still you know, pretty pretty strongly like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I strongly disagree with where this whole movement as has
Speaker 5: taken course.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing I didn't want to say, it comes
Speaker 1: from knowing thyself, right, that go ahead. One thing I
Speaker 1: kind of wanted to add, I think to something that
Speaker 1: you had said, or maybe maybe both of you is
Speaker 1: kind of said something about perception. No, like for people,
Speaker 1: there's very few people I knew personally, but there was
Speaker 1: enough that I knew that microdosed like either as sor
Speaker 1: to shrooms or had even taken like DMT or hiawaskin
Speaker 1: in the control of the setting. And I'll just be
Speaker 1: totally honest with you, most of them their perception of
Speaker 1: reality completely fucking changed after that, in my opinion, weird,
Speaker 1: like now all of a sudden, everywhere he's like related
Speaker 1: to Pladians or some fucking reptilian fucking races coming into
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, what the fuck happened? Very I'll
Speaker 1: just see, you know, and like maybe sometimes that's not
Speaker 1: the best thing either, I don't know. But like even
Speaker 1: another thing I wanted to add, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: say this earlier, but I won't let you guys go
Speaker 1: and know the reasons why I find this it's topic
Speaker 1: interesting because I was friends with somebody who was very
Speaker 1: it was very close to me that was very big
Speaker 1: into using these psychedelics, and unfortunately, I mean, it is
Speaker 1: what it is. If the kids even listening to the
Speaker 1: show when he was using the shit continuously means life
Speaker 1: turned to shit, married, divorced, moved on on? How many times?
Speaker 1: All this like? So as like a magician who's supposed
Speaker 1: to be doing this stuff to have spiritual experiences and
Speaker 1: work on shadow work, didn't look like you were getting anyway,
Speaker 1: my man, looks like things are getting worse. So just
Speaker 1: to me, it was just like, you know, is the
Speaker 1: drugs the problem? I don't know, But again, just even perception.
Speaker 1: Fuck you all up with that shit too, your perception
Speaker 1: of reality.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Richard, Yeah, if IM jumpmen in there. It's
Speaker 2: this goes back to the another thing, which is just
Speaker 2: because something comes from beyond the veil doesn't mean it's
Speaker 2: at all intelligent or even even that great. And so
Speaker 2: it's one of those things, the beings you see. I'm
Speaker 2: not one of those guys who says, oh, when you
Speaker 2: take psychedelics all in your head. I actually think some
Speaker 2: of those experiences are very real and very genuine. But
Speaker 2: here's the thing, here's the thing. The difference. When you
Speaker 2: take psychedelics, there's also a passivity, a passivity in your essence,
Speaker 2: whereas when you are engaged in the work in initiatic workings.
Speaker 2: There's activity, like you know, you can take a drug
Speaker 2: or and that will change your phenomenology. But you can
Speaker 2: overload yourself with anything. You can take alcohol and that
Speaker 2: will give you weird experiences as well. Like I know
Speaker 2: people who kind of feel a separation when they take alcohol,
Speaker 2: which is very interesting, Like they feel the part of
Speaker 2: themselves that gets drunk and there's that other part of
Speaker 2: them that goes, oh, I'm getting drunk, and it's like
Speaker 2: they can see this kind of dualism. But it's like,
Speaker 2: if you take a hundred cups of coffee, you'll also
Speaker 2: change your phenomenal I guarantee you you will experience a
Speaker 2: phenomenological difference of the world if you take one hundred
Speaker 2: cups of coffee. But nonetheless, one of the points of
Speaker 2: spiritual work or experience in my experience as meeting people
Speaker 2: and talking to people. There's a lot of spiritual experience
Speaker 2: that've gained through practice and work is very subtle, and
Speaker 2: the whole point is to kind of refine yourself. So
Speaker 2: it's like I use the example of you know, you
Speaker 2: get a gem like a topaz, and you hold it
Speaker 2: in your hand and you close your eyes and it's
Speaker 2: like what do you feel? And some people kind of like, ah,
Speaker 2: my gem bible says a topez caurs, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: throw your gem bible in the bin. What do you
Speaker 2: feel when you have like the topez in your in
Speaker 2: your hand and it's like you are trying to interact
Speaker 2: with that thing. You're trying to that thing is speaking
Speaker 2: to you. Everything in the world is speaking. The wind
Speaker 2: is speaking, the tree is speaking, the grass is speaking.
Speaker 2: There's this continuous dialogue that's always happening. It's just our faculties,
Speaker 2: our physical faculties are overloaded, and so that information that
Speaker 2: comes in, that super sensible information is sent into our
Speaker 2: subconscious we're not conscious of it is there. And some
Speaker 2: people are very intuitive, and you know, they know when
Speaker 2: a plant needs this and that they've got the you know,
Speaker 2: the green thumb, because they can speak to plants. It's
Speaker 2: in them. It's in them. It's it goes into their
Speaker 2: subconscious and something red just as consciously. But for most
Speaker 2: people it goes into the subconscious and it stays there.
Speaker 2: Whereas when you do esoteric practice, you try to draw
Speaker 2: that out, you try to engage with that, and you
Speaker 2: do that actively. When you take substance there's and you
Speaker 2: would even in like if you do the environment properly
Speaker 2: and you fast for forty days, there's still a passivity
Speaker 2: to it. And this is problematic because I always remember
Speaker 2: it's like a kind of a root off Steiner lecture.
Speaker 2: At one point he talks about the astral belt of lies,
Speaker 2: and I was like, Oh, this is interesting because there's
Speaker 2: an esoteric spin on the in the astral world, in
Speaker 2: the lower astral world, there's a belt where when you
Speaker 2: hit it, it's illusory but and so it's and it's
Speaker 2: not it's real, but it's real. But there's the truth
Speaker 2: in the lie gets mixed together. And when a truth
Speaker 2: and a lie gets mixed together, that's that's double trouble
Speaker 2: because truth is often dry. But when you add life
Speaker 2: lies to truth, then it starts to sparkle. And also
Speaker 2: lies if you push against them. If you push against
Speaker 2: a lie, it'll fall over. But if you have truth
Speaker 2: there to prop it up, the lie becomes actually quite reinforced.
Speaker 2: So when you mix truth with lie, it's just like
Speaker 2: that astral belt of lies is one of the biggest,
Speaker 2: the biggest problems. And I'm like, ah, and this is
Speaker 2: also for people who don't take drugs for people who
Speaker 2: have a little bit of delusion in them, and then
Speaker 2: they get into the spiritual work and they start doing numerology,
Speaker 2: they read the Kabali on once and then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden they think they're Jesus and Karnate. It's like,
Speaker 2: this is a perennial problem. And just because you're taking
Speaker 2: a psychedelics that doesn't you don't skip that process. There
Speaker 2: is a very a process very early on where it's
Speaker 2: like a megalomania almost, And it's like those spiritual beings
Speaker 2: that are beyond the veil, they may not that may
Speaker 2: be just a quality of the astral belt of lies
Speaker 2: and so you may not. Oh anyway, and this is
Speaker 2: just it. I see people just like your friend continuously
Speaker 2: who are stuck. It's like I met a guy, I know,
Speaker 2: I know a guy. Actually he's doing well now, but
Speaker 2: I met him down and Byron, well he's from Byron.
Speaker 2: Let's let me just say Byron Bay, Australia. If you
Speaker 2: know what's what happens there, you know what happens there.
Speaker 2: This guy the list of drugs he took like it
Speaker 2: would if it rolled out on a scroll, The scroll
Speaker 2: would go across the room. He told me that he
Speaker 2: took a like al oscar thirteen times and it's like
Speaker 2: the last time he took it was like a triple
Speaker 2: dose or something. And he said he had this experience
Speaker 2: where like the void opened up and all the gods
Speaker 2: were there, and the Divine Mother came to him, but
Speaker 2: then she turned like she spoke to him, and she
Speaker 2: turned and she pointed to all of the gods and
Speaker 2: see all of this this is just this is just
Speaker 2: an impression. And it's like there was something real that
Speaker 2: finally cracked through and he realized, like I need to
Speaker 2: stop taking drugs. I need to dual work. This is
Speaker 2: just an experience, and that's what I see. This guy
Speaker 2: I met, he was a nice guy, but he was normal.
Speaker 2: He didn't have any attainment. He wasn't a master. There
Speaker 2: were no cities there. There was no extraordinary knowledge. And
Speaker 2: when I say extra ordinary knowledge, look, he had weird experiences.
Speaker 2: He had cool psychedelic experiences that were crystallized in his memory.
Speaker 2: But he wasn't an unusual person beyond that. And it's
Speaker 2: like for him something finally cracked and broken. It's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I need to actually find the work. And you know,
Speaker 2: he he's doing one. He got some Golden Dawn stuff
Speaker 2: and he's doing some things. But it's like, that's what
Speaker 2: I That's what I see most of the time is
Speaker 2: people take them and the megalomania test. They get completely
Speaker 2: they completely fumble and stumble, and it's like I just
Speaker 2: solved my ego. That's it done, guys, LSD. Once I'm
Speaker 2: done one and done, baby.
Speaker 1: I like how you said that, the megalomania, that's pretty interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you, sir.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I once had a I had a festival on
Speaker 5: my property and whatnot. And try not to get too
Speaker 5: specific here, but let's just say nefarious people can get
Speaker 5: their hands on these substances, you know, have all of
Speaker 5: these sort of unstressed conclusions about how you know, sacred
Speaker 5: psychedelics are, and then they're around a bunch of gullible
Speaker 5: and naive, naive people that don't really think critically about
Speaker 5: these things, and then they can actually, they can actually
Speaker 5: do harm. I realized that this isn't happening like all
Speaker 5: the time everywhere with everyone uses psychedelics, but it does.
Speaker 5: It does happen. Like one of my good friends, you know,
Speaker 5: was given by this total moron, like a teeny vial
Speaker 5: of liquid LSD or whatever, and he was just like
Speaker 5: take the rest of it. And you know, the other
Speaker 5: the person who took it was just being too like oh,
Speaker 5: you know, I want to be one of the cool
Speaker 5: kids kind of thing, the whole thing, and like, I
Speaker 5: mean lost, you know, for the next eight hours, Like
Speaker 5: we had him in the car with ac on him,
Speaker 5: like trying to get him.
Speaker 4: Good.
Speaker 5: Luckily, they had like a er friend that was you know,
Speaker 5: on the property too, so it was all good. But
Speaker 5: he tried to run into our lake, like you know,
Speaker 5: stripped his closed down, running straight for the lake, and
Speaker 5: like we grabbed him and you know, brought him back down.
Speaker 5: That's just one of these sort of revelatory moments where
Speaker 5: it's like, dude, this stuff in the wrong type of
Speaker 5: hands is tragic and it can ruin people's lives. And
Speaker 5: you know, I've seen way worse situations situations play out there.
Speaker 5: So you'll get these kind of like micro gurus with
Speaker 5: with big egos and really they're just drug dealers who
Speaker 5: happen to have psychedelics and they kind of you know,
Speaker 5: they have a couple of they have like some bro
Speaker 5: science facts related to the psychedelics on their shoulder and
Speaker 5: they're around some gullible people and then you know people
Speaker 5: are just damn imaging, you know, damaging their lives, and
Speaker 5: that's when it's really sad. So it's like whereas when
Speaker 5: you find you know, some North American tribes sharing like
Speaker 5: yopon tea ceremonies or smoking the tobacco pipe and stuff
Speaker 5: in ceremony, it is all the sort of traditional. It
Speaker 5: has these parameters about it. It's there's that layer of
Speaker 5: reverence there, your your ancestors did it too, and it
Speaker 5: is intent Like the intentions are pretty clear as to
Speaker 5: what's going on. Right when when someone in the Lakota
Speaker 5: tribe or differ various different tribes in North America set
Speaker 5: out to do their vigils or their rites of passage,
Speaker 5: for instance, you know they would go out with the
Speaker 5: shaman uh and the shaman would sort of say, all right,
Speaker 5: look here here's what you do. You've you've got to
Speaker 5: fast for three days. We've dug this pit in the
Speaker 5: mountain side. You know, you go into the pit and
Speaker 5: like that's where you're gonna You're gonna sit in this
Speaker 5: pit for X number of days and wait there until
Speaker 5: the spirits come to you.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: Sometimes the spirits didn't come, and then the person came
Speaker 5: back down the mountain side talked with the shaman, and
Speaker 5: shaman was like, yeah, you you know, there's also something
Speaker 5: in that too, like you that you just gotta you
Speaker 5: gotta work harder, you gotta do something different, or there's
Speaker 5: like there's that sort of tough love kind of message there.
Speaker 5: There was always a way through it, even if you
Speaker 5: didn't have the experience. The shamans understood because they had
Speaker 5: brought so many people through this kind of thing. Or
Speaker 5: you could be in this pit similar to like Tamarcus
Speaker 5: in Greece who visited the cave of Triphonius. Right, he
Speaker 5: didn't drink a psychedelic according to Plutarch before having his
Speaker 5: near death experience. Right, neither did these these youths in
Speaker 5: the North American tribes who go up the mountain side
Speaker 5: and they wait in these caves or pits or something,
Speaker 5: and usually they they're they're making a sacrifice. Right when
Speaker 5: you're fasting, you're sacrificing something, right, You're they're they're making
Speaker 5: this sacrifice, and there's there's this intention there and you
Speaker 5: have to go through the kind of period of darkness
Speaker 5: and then something can come through, you know. But these
Speaker 5: are totally not reliant on any any you know, material medium.
Speaker 5: And that's that's the idea. It is that our language
Speaker 5: about natural visionary experiences just needs to get upgraded, and
Speaker 5: it won't get upgraded also if everyone's too caddy about
Speaker 5: their experiences or can't have a conversation about their experiences,
Speaker 5: like you don't need to give us the whole package,
Speaker 5: but we need to at least be able to communicate
Speaker 5: on some level like hey, yeah, I know what you're
Speaker 5: talking about. That happened to me too in meditation. Stuff
Speaker 5: like that. We need to we need to bring this
Speaker 5: out of like some you know, like the alchemists. You know,
Speaker 5: they're obscuring their language so much that no one knows
Speaker 5: what's going on anymore, like that kind of phase. I think,
Speaker 5: you know, it's like it has its place here or there.
Speaker 5: But in order to bring this stuff to the practical level,
Speaker 5: we have to talk about it openly, and we have
Speaker 5: to focus on these natural visionary experiences that underlie I
Speaker 5: think the origins of religious belief in the first place
Speaker 5: are actually those experiences, and they don't require psychedelics, okay,
Speaker 5: but sure if someone came across a DMT pipe loaded
Speaker 5: with DMT in the ancient world and they smoked it,
Speaker 5: would they come out of that with like some wild beliefs,
Speaker 5: Like yeah, definitely right. But I think we're dealing with
Speaker 5: something more natural here. And you know, on that note,
Speaker 5: last little thing here, It's like when when asked these
Speaker 5: Amazonian shamans, did you how did you find ayahuasca? You know,
Speaker 5: they said the plants told us. The plants told us so.
Speaker 5: But even the guys deep in the research there, they
Speaker 5: want to appeal to the skeptics and say, well, they
Speaker 5: could work this out over ten thousand experiments combining this
Speaker 5: plant in that plant, And I'm like, guys, they told
Speaker 5: you what happened. They already they already told you how
Speaker 5: it happened. And so we're always looking for this this
Speaker 5: sort of more rational kind of way around these things.
Speaker 5: But speaking to a plant or something it just sounds,
Speaker 5: oh my god, it's so fantastic. But that kind of
Speaker 5: clues you into how far away we are from the
Speaker 5: actual mindset of the people that were discovering the psychedelics
Speaker 5: that now we cherish. They had a totally different ontology.
Speaker 5: You know that they could telepathically communicate with plants and
Speaker 5: this and that. So we've lost we like have erased
Speaker 5: all of that context and all of that earning and
Speaker 5: that what you know, what people had to do to
Speaker 5: deserve these things, We've erased that. And you know, so
Speaker 5: that's why we have to bring it in this discussion.
Speaker 5: And it's sort of valuable to flesh flesh all of
Speaker 5: this out.
Speaker 4: May I. May I add, it's a great question that
Speaker 4: you pose, like the kind of delulu that comes about
Speaker 4: from people even doing a small amount, and I think
Speaker 4: it and Colin where you were just talking about in
Speaker 4: regards to fasting and ritual preparation, any number of sorts
Speaker 4: of initiation process processes. I think a lot of that
Speaker 4: adds up to confusion and the learning process of kung fu,
Speaker 4: taichi and so on. It's really a confusing and humbling experience,
Speaker 4: but yet it is beneficial and grounding and so forth.
Speaker 4: And it's interesting that psychedelics and narcotics can be confusing,
Speaker 4: and I think when one has gone through a lot
Speaker 4: of confusion and overcoming confusion, even in a sober sense,
Speaker 4: I think confusion is what development tastes like if you will,
Speaker 4: And so I think it is an example of this
Speaker 4: preparation or initiation benefit that can help us deal with
Speaker 4: these things that might bring people into this spiritual euphoria
Speaker 4: where everything is a sign if you will or something
Speaker 4: akin to that, and not grounded as they proceed. So
Speaker 4: I just wanted to add that the confusion I think
Speaker 4: is a helpful thing in development.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the Shamans themselves would be horrified that
Speaker 3: people are taking these psychoactive substances inside of a rave.
Speaker 3: It's like, how are you not riddled with demons at
Speaker 3: this point? So it's you know, the different distractions and
Speaker 3: things that take you off the course surrounding you during
Speaker 3: these things are very influential on how that relates to
Speaker 3: your experiences and how you relate to them. So, I mean,
Speaker 3: you could change your perception looking at a color, you know,
Speaker 3: you could change your perception by having certain herbs burning.
Speaker 3: The whole idea that you need strong psychoactive substances. The
Speaker 3: change your perception is actually completely off of the mark
Speaker 3: that you would want to you know, perpetuate with attaining
Speaker 3: the ability to witness this stuff.
Speaker 1: That's really well said. I mean that's even like stuff
Speaker 1: that I've been even trying to like get at, and
Speaker 1: we'll try to get more at on the show. Myself
Speaker 1: is between like you know, if you have the choice
Speaker 1: of sacred architecture, you know, sound, herbs, crystals, there's so
Speaker 1: many things that could already start affecting your your your
Speaker 1: vegas nerdly, your parasympathetic shit, then you can actually like
Speaker 1: kind of lower you lower yourself down and get into
Speaker 1: a relaxed state just from all that aiding you already.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean just without the drugs.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's it's still a mystery as far as
Speaker 5: the chemicals that our body produces and what role they
Speaker 5: they play in these experiences too, because I mean it
Speaker 5: is it is fascinating that the body already possesses the
Speaker 5: kind of cannabinoid system that knows exactly what to do
Speaker 5: when you when you you know, inhale, THHC and whatnot.
Speaker 5: Are we already make small levels of d MT, you know,
Speaker 5: in our body and we're not necessarily quite sure what
Speaker 5: their what their function are. You know, Strasman has at
Speaker 5: least somewhat indicated that that it plays a role in
Speaker 5: our in our dreams. But you know, then again we're
Speaker 5: not really sure, but but you have things like gigantism
Speaker 5: or whatnot, which is a sort of I believe the
Speaker 5: thyroid produces an excess level of growth hormone and literally
Speaker 5: turns people into giants, right, So this is a kind
Speaker 5: of chemical imbalance in the body that has these drastic,
Speaker 5: you know, these drastic kind of effects. So we just
Speaker 5: we don't know enough about about those those processes. But
Speaker 5: it's like we know, we know that holotropic breathing produces
Speaker 5: more nitric oxide in the brain, Okay, and that's why
Speaker 5: the experiences that people have doing that practice is similar
Speaker 5: to when they just suck down a nitrous oxide balloon.
Speaker 5: But you don't need the balloons. You can you can
Speaker 5: do this in a in a different in a different
Speaker 5: way that is healthier, right, and it requires efforts. So
Speaker 5: there is a different kind of catharsis at the end
Speaker 5: of that journey than just sort of just sort of
Speaker 5: taking something right. So it's like, the psychedelics are not
Speaker 5: going away, if anything, I think, you know, we're probably
Speaker 5: gonna see revivals on a number of different levels of
Speaker 5: you know, different kind of psychedelics. So it's it's worth
Speaker 5: trying to establish as as psychedelics continue to influence culture
Speaker 5: in general and and no doubt influence people's perspective on
Speaker 5: spirituality and whatnot. Getting it back into this this sense
Speaker 5: of reverence and this sense of like, like if you
Speaker 5: wanted to create a a new mystery ritual based around
Speaker 5: kind of a psychedelic at the end of that, like that,
Speaker 5: there's validity there, there's something good there if it's if
Speaker 5: the parameters are right, the people involved are like decent
Speaker 5: and everything else, and it's not it's not too you know, crazy,
Speaker 5: Like there's there's value. There's value there, but it's of
Speaker 5: course it's not. It's not the only thing that exists.
Speaker 5: And that's you know, we're being a dead dead horse
Speaker 5: here by saying this over and over, but we're gonna
Speaker 5: have to continue to say it over and or over
Speaker 5: and sort of flesh out the argument and develop the
Speaker 5: different the different points here because the debate is going
Speaker 5: to ramp up.
Speaker 1: Actually, well, one thing I would even like to point
Speaker 1: at I was thinking of what you're talking about this
Speaker 1: stuff and that to start getting a little bit on
Speaker 1: the more conspiratorial side. But Jesus, my opinion that it
Speaker 1: could be quite possible. It's a theory. So some people
Speaker 1: might agree that maybe during like certain like music things
Speaker 1: or the Grateful Dead, maybe not all that accid, Like
Speaker 1: maybe some of that nice it might have been from
Speaker 1: the CIA. You never know, you know, you never know
Speaker 1: what that ship, where that stuff was coming from. And
Speaker 1: people just being studied, you have no idea, you know,
Speaker 1: So like I do believe that maybe certain places can't
Speaker 1: get infiltrated by drugs for studies. Like who's to say
Speaker 1: this isn't just another another one.
Speaker 2: I mean that that could be another argument for a
Speaker 2: like or another division in the community, artificial or natural,
Speaker 2: Like if you truly want to be spiritual, just pure natural, baby,
Speaker 2: you gotta go natty. You can't, you can't not be natty.
Speaker 1: And then and then mushroom. And then when you get
Speaker 1: these people that have these crazy experiences and now think
Speaker 1: that there's some like Palladian moon goddess, people would be like, well,
Speaker 1: that's what happens when you take that shit. You're fucking crazy,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So then it just you know,
Speaker 1: it really just makes the whole thing just look sucked up.
Speaker 1: M that's how to experience. No, I've just wondered that.
Speaker 2: I think another thing I want to mention also in
Speaker 2: there is the difference between permanent change and temporary change,
Speaker 2: and this is to go towards also advancement or walking
Speaker 2: along the spiritual powerful thing. Maybe I want to maybe
Speaker 2: just move back a bit and just I have these categories.
Speaker 2: I just want to mention first when I talk about this,
Speaker 2: because some people they get the wrong impression when I
Speaker 2: say spirituality. I have these three tears, religion, spirituality, and mysticism.
Speaker 2: The religious is the top one, is the first one,
Speaker 2: the basic one. Someone who's religious doesn't necessarily care about
Speaker 2: having a spiritual experience. You know, the Christian who goes
Speaker 2: to church. He still believes there's something beyond the veil
Speaker 2: and he draws ethics from it, but he's just religious.
Speaker 2: He goes to church on the weekend. Someone who's spiritual
Speaker 2: is a little bit deeper. They want to experience what's
Speaker 2: beyond the veil. But they may not never change in
Speaker 2: their life, like they may not be necessarily interested in
Speaker 2: transformation of their self, like they may not want, you know,
Speaker 2: they just want to kind of live life, but also
Speaker 2: being among the spirits kind of thing. Whereas a mystic
Speaker 2: is someone who has real experience from beyond the veil,
Speaker 2: and they've actually been transformed by it. The only problem
Speaker 2: is is a true mystic mystics, they don't choose to
Speaker 2: be mystics. It's the thing beyond the veil reaches down
Speaker 2: and grabs them and pulls them upwards. And the counter
Speaker 2: that is on that level. There's something like along the
Speaker 2: side of that, and that is someone who wants that,
Speaker 2: they want transformation and they do something to initiate that process.
Speaker 2: And the thing is in this class, the experience, the
Speaker 2: perception is an effect. It's not a cause. The cause
Speaker 2: is you apply something. So it's like in the East
Speaker 2: you do crea yoga, you do this Hamsar exercise where
Speaker 2: you visualize, you know, energy coming up the spine and
Speaker 2: into the forehead and you do this continuously and then
Speaker 2: sometimes they say you experience light if you just take
Speaker 2: a drug and you experience light in your forehead. So
Speaker 2: what that's an effect? You didn't do the cause. The
Speaker 2: whole point is is you saturate the spine with this
Speaker 2: energy and then that has an effect and then that
Speaker 2: changes you and then certain things in your life may
Speaker 2: change or you as a person, like continuously moving your
Speaker 2: energies inwards, like you know, can change certain qualities psychologically
Speaker 2: permanently in you. It's like you do the cause and
Speaker 2: you get these effects, these spiritual things or I saw
Speaker 2: this spirit or I saw these lights. They are effects.
Speaker 2: They're not important at all, but also they are important
Speaker 2: in the sense of you've done the practice correctly, and
Speaker 2: it's a litmus test that you've done the practice correctly.
Speaker 2: You don't want to be doing a practice wrong for
Speaker 2: like twenty years and then it's like I've been doing
Speaker 2: it wrong, you know all this time kind of thing.
Speaker 2: If you apply a cause, it should have an effect.
Speaker 2: But if you're just taking a drug and having any experience,
Speaker 2: that's just an effect without anything. I like to say,
Speaker 2: it's like you know, like going to the gym and
Speaker 2: working out and changing your body. But you know the
Speaker 2: concept of like you know, an exoskeleton, like they're talking
Speaker 2: about it now. It's like, well, you get like kind
Speaker 2: of a robot suit over yourself and like they kind
Speaker 2: of have military exo suits now where it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: you have the robot moves kind of for your you
Speaker 2: can lift something extra large if you have like this
Speaker 2: kind of robot kind of exoskeleton on your arm and
Speaker 2: like that kind of thing. It's like it's like taking
Speaker 2: a drug for spirituality is like that is you're putting
Speaker 2: something on and it's like it's giving you this huge
Speaker 2: effects and then you can lift like three hundred, four hundred,
Speaker 2: five hundred pounds. But then once you take the exo
Speaker 2: skeleton off, you're just back to a normal skinny dude.
Speaker 2: You're back to a normal human. And that's the thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the thing exactly. It's the difference between Iron Man
Speaker 2: and four What do you want to be a billionaire playboy?
Speaker 2: And then what are you without the suit? Or are
Speaker 2: you Captain America? Are you actually though, like just generating
Speaker 2: like lightning out of yourself or generating strength and virtue
Speaker 2: out of yourself via the internal It's like, what do
Speaker 2: you want to be? And so it's kind of like
Speaker 2: there's no I see it, there's no real development. And
Speaker 2: people always kind of that, it's like, and they always
Speaker 2: counter that by saying, ah, but it changed me from that,
Speaker 2: and it's like no, no, no, you're mistaken. You're falling
Speaker 2: into the healing versus regeneration thing again. Broken people becoming
Speaker 2: normal is not initiation someone who's already kind of got
Speaker 2: it together going into something even greater, going beyond human.
Speaker 2: That's what we're interesting, the ladder of being you know, vegetable, animal, human,
Speaker 2: and then something potentially beyond. We want to go beyond.
Speaker 2: We don't just want to be a human with an
Speaker 2: odd experience. It's calls and effects, permanence change, not temporary experience.
Speaker 1: I like that that was well said. I think that's
Speaker 1: why before I was like saying, that sounds like party
Speaker 1: time to me, because it just sounds like you're taking
Speaker 1: shit just to do it, and there was no reason
Speaker 1: why I get that. Man nice, anybody have anything they
Speaker 1: wanted to add or.
Speaker 5: As far as this goes, it's probably I think we've
Speaker 5: probably covered most of it as far as an introductory
Speaker 5: sort of fleshing out the general kind of argument against
Speaker 5: psychedelic maximalism, because then you know, this is the next step.
Speaker 5: If there was a debate on the in the cards
Speaker 5: or whatever, we would start busting out receipts and doing
Speaker 5: that whole ping pong and that whole thing back and forth,
Speaker 5: which would be would would be fun, but I.
Speaker 1: Could get interesting. Let's keep that in mind. If you
Speaker 1: don't want to.
Speaker 5: Sign me up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I got I got no skin in
Speaker 1: the game, so I mean it's all cool for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not a debate guide, but I'm I'm up
Speaker 2: for some fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I think yeah, exactly discussion.
Speaker 3: But that's another interesting point though. The people who do
Speaker 3: have skin in the game have been researching this in
Speaker 3: sort of private settings for you know, decades upon decades,
Speaker 3: since the nineteen fifties that we know of, and maybe
Speaker 3: there's a little bit more to that agenda than a
Speaker 3: lot of people are giving it credit for, because you know,
Speaker 3: we see all of this stuff sort of popping up
Speaker 3: as these advocacy groups, and maybe there has more to
Speaker 3: do with maybe what the purposes were originally, which is
Speaker 3: human testing. So it's just something to be aware of
Speaker 3: and stay cautious of.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's totally going on the you know, the
Speaker 2: conspiracy route as well. That's it can also be another thing.
Speaker 2: It's like the forces that be know that drugs are
Speaker 2: a dead end, so to over over to over recommend them,
Speaker 2: and to have people who have a kind of copium,
Speaker 2: it's like they've been in because they said, you see
Speaker 2: this in some spiritual school where it's like a guy's
Speaker 2: been in for twenty years, and if you're in a
Speaker 2: spiritual kind of scenario for so long, you get it
Speaker 2: into your head. Sometimes it's like, I'm spiritual, and then
Speaker 2: if something goes wrong, well I'm spiritual. It has to
Speaker 2: be someone else. It can't be me. I've done the work.
Speaker 2: And if it's just if you're just doing drugs all
Speaker 2: the time, and then you can kind of like if
Speaker 2: you've never done anything, you haven't really gotten anywhere. There
Speaker 2: can be a kind of a copium for that. So
Speaker 2: they go into the literature, they do all this study,
Speaker 2: they get all this skin in the game because it's
Speaker 2: a kind of copium. No, no, no, it is good.
Speaker 2: I've been working this entire time. And then of course
Speaker 2: there's the people behind them going yes, yes, tell the others,
Speaker 2: tell the others, and it's all this that's where it
Speaker 2: becomes conspiratorial. I can see that. I can see that.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 4: And I think you guys already won the debate in
Speaker 4: a sense, but by putting forth the idea that it
Speaker 4: does have medical end or healing properties and uses for
Speaker 4: certain people, but the true you know, Richard and con
Speaker 4: I think you guys summed it up. Essentially, there's no
Speaker 4: prescription for cities, right, it's more instructions towards meditation that
Speaker 4: you may gain such effects. Con sorry to.
Speaker 5: Oh no, no worries at all. Yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 5: worth you know, it's worth pointing out, like like the
Speaker 5: positives for psychedelics as well, Like, are there some people
Speaker 5: that I would be like, dude, I just want to
Speaker 5: shove a mushroom down down your mouth just so you
Speaker 5: have some inkling that there's something beyond your ego that exists. Like, yes,
Speaker 5: there's people that that we all want to do that with,
Speaker 5: but you know, we don't, we can't do that. But yeah,
Speaker 5: so it's it's like I think it can lead a
Speaker 5: lot of sort of you know, dogmatic and and kind
Speaker 5: of sort of rigorously rigid people. It can it can
Speaker 5: produce a shift in belief, which can can be powerful.
Speaker 5: But those shifts they don't necessarily like you can't keep
Speaker 5: pressing the shift belief button, you know, so if something
Speaker 5: results in that shift, that shift of belief, like, Okay,
Speaker 5: now I believe in spirits because I smoke d MT
Speaker 5: and I encountered things that I can't explain, and they
Speaker 5: were communicating with me and it was so bizarre. It's like,
Speaker 5: all right, I'll like, I think that's that's a sort
Speaker 5: of a positive thing if you if you can if
Speaker 5: that works in a positive way in your reality, that
Speaker 5: now you believe in spirits. Now you sort of understand boom,
Speaker 5: there's a there's a good positive benefit from from psychedelic
Speaker 5: uses that I honestly want to kind of you know,
Speaker 5: safe and everything else advocate for for sure. That's that's
Speaker 5: where I think it has its place, not in this
Speaker 5: sort of chaotic you know, everything's recreational, nothing intention behind it.
Speaker 5: We're just doing this for euphoria. So it makes our
Speaker 5: sex better and our dancing better and this and that.
Speaker 5: People want to ride that train until they're basically forty
Speaker 5: and they've lost the purpose in life, and like you know,
Speaker 5: now now they don't look as good anymore, they don't
Speaker 5: feel as good. What have I been doing? You know,
Speaker 5: I've been frying my brain on psychedelics. And it's like,
Speaker 5: you know, when I was younger and a little bit
Speaker 5: more championing the psychedelics and didn't have enough experiences myself,
Speaker 5: I was a little more gung ho about it. But
Speaker 5: then when you have like a terrible trip and are
Speaker 5: a couple of these, right, Like you know salvia they
Speaker 5: used to sell and they might still do sell salvia
Speaker 5: like gas stations. Right, if you smoke salvia, you will
Speaker 5: be confronted with the most bizarre hallucinations you could You
Speaker 5: don't ever want to imagine. It is nightmarish. What can happen? Right,
Speaker 5: I don't know, don't do it. It's not like it's
Speaker 5: not great, you know. I mean Terrence mckinna, he describes
Speaker 5: a certain way to do it where you know it's different.
Speaker 5: But I mean I saw I saw like reality unzip
Speaker 5: and in one instance, there was like fifty different boxes
Speaker 5: of myself that I saw stumbling and it was like
Speaker 5: a hologram of me just stumbling in a yard. And
Speaker 5: I came back to reality, hitting myself in the face,
Speaker 5: trying to wake up out of it. You know. So
Speaker 5: it's like, I mean, it can just what is It's like,
Speaker 5: I don't know what to take from that other than
Speaker 5: you know, don't do that anymore. And hallucinations are possible, right,
Speaker 5: So it's like, uh, yeah, there's there's only so much
Speaker 5: we can extract from it. Now with the dmt X research,
Speaker 5: I think those guys are going to they're going to
Speaker 5: get into the territory territory with psychedelics, and this is
Speaker 5: the IV drip of the DMT. They might get into
Speaker 5: a territory that is scientifically useful. And this is let
Speaker 5: me qualify that. It's like if they can encounter an
Speaker 5: intoity in that space and say, here's a mathematical problem
Speaker 5: and the entity solves it and and they bring it
Speaker 5: back or whatever, that's kind of what they're trying to do.
Speaker 5: They're trying to let the entity do something that the
Speaker 5: person having the experience cannot do so that they bring
Speaker 5: it back as like experiential proof of the objective existence
Speaker 5: of of this entity. That's that's the fascinating research that
Speaker 5: this stuff can, you know, get into. And I'm I'm
Speaker 5: all for that, you know. Yeah, So I think it's
Speaker 5: it's gonna it's gonna get interesting. So it's worth it's
Speaker 5: worth trying to figure out, you know, where we at
Speaker 5: in this, in this whole argument, and what are the
Speaker 5: points for and against this stuff. So I think I
Speaker 5: think we've done done some good introductory work on that here.
Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah, doing salvia myself, I lost all control over
Speaker 3: the internal temperature regulation in my body. So even though
Speaker 3: it's perfectly fine outside, you feel like you're freezing to death.
Speaker 3: So it's is that really worth fucking around with your
Speaker 3: autonomic nervous system? It's, uh, you know, it's something else
Speaker 3: happening there. So these things aren't regulated, but that doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that they're safe, And a lot of people miss
Speaker 3: that sort of distinction because they think that, you know,
Speaker 3: chemicals that are unregulated means they're safe, but that's that's
Speaker 3: not true at all. It's just, you know, you got
Speaker 3: to understand that the dose makes the poison. And a
Speaker 3: lot of times people don't do that because they're used
Speaker 3: to having warning labels all over everything. And I don't
Speaker 3: think that if they legalized psychedelics that it would come
Speaker 3: with a warning label that says could cause extended adolescence.
Speaker 3: You know, that ego death that you're experiencing might just
Speaker 3: be you thinking you're a child forever. So how is
Speaker 3: that useful?
Speaker 1: Like that? All right? I guess we could pliably. You
Speaker 1: guys are cool with wrapping it up, then, I guess
Speaker 1: you guys, Uh yeah, no reason to keep going on that.
Speaker 1: It was that was great though, man, I really, uh,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate the way you guys presented all that.
Speaker 1: You know again, I mean, I totally agree with you guys. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I don't think drugs are.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: Before we wrap it up, we'll have everybody, uh pull
Speaker 1: this stuff one more time. What is going on, Ethan?
Speaker 1: Remember the books this time?
Speaker 4: Well that was that was awesome. Thank you so much
Speaker 4: for sharing you guys. It's inspiring uh to get more
Speaker 4: confusion in my mind. So yeah, Ethan, Indigo Smith, I
Speaker 4: appreciate anyone who reaches out to communicate. And tomorrow Sunday
Speaker 4: and tomorrow Sunday's head listen. I'll be doing the trialogue,
Speaker 4: hopefully with Riccardo. Maybe we'll have to get Nick on
Speaker 4: if he's not busy.
Speaker 1: If cards yeah, maybe I could.
Speaker 4: And always trying to do a little writing here and
Speaker 4: there a cult Research Institute, and I got a bunch
Speaker 4: of books out there. Geometry of Energy is a free
Speaker 4: e book if anyone does the books for the next
Speaker 4: few days. And again, Richard Colin, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us, Ethan for your questions and
Speaker 1: your input. And Heller's join sir, you.
Speaker 3: Know, and you can check me tomorrow on the trialogues
Speaker 3: at about ten thirty Central and Ethan's going to be
Speaker 3: there with me and it's going to be a great time. Also,
Speaker 3: you know, I love I love being the people to
Speaker 3: be talking about this stuff instead of, you know, leaving
Speaker 3: it up to some of the more duplicitous members of
Speaker 3: society trying to fear monger about it, which is not
Speaker 3: what you need in cases like this, because I think
Speaker 3: there's that instant sort of like revulsion against the fear
Speaker 3: mongers that then brings people into it and doing things
Speaker 3: that are unsafe because you know, they were told not
Speaker 3: to do it. So I think these are good discussions
Speaker 3: to have, and I think people should really consider these
Speaker 3: things from a wider perspective.
Speaker 1: So thank you very much, no, thank you, Ellis appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And we'll start off with Richard first. Please let everybody
Speaker 1: know where they can find all your work.
Speaker 2: Once again, you can find me on Twitter. I'm pretty
Speaker 2: active there. Check out my substacks. I should probably write
Speaker 2: it so behind and everything. I got some more videos
Speaker 2: in the work. Subscribe to my channel hang out on
Speaker 2: Sun orders that hang out for my Manly Pee whole
Speaker 2: streams and also if you're a YouTube member in the
Speaker 2: Secret Chat we got a little hermetic study group going.
Speaker 2: We'll probably do another reading of Friends Barton soon, so
Speaker 2: look forward to that.
Speaker 1: Very nice. And yeah, if people didn't catch it when
Speaker 1: he was on here the first time, I think we
Speaker 1: talked about resecutionism. If you're into that, go check out
Speaker 1: the other episode. And Colin, please man let everybody know
Speaker 1: what's up with you. When there people can find all
Speaker 1: your amazing stuff.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you can find me on YouTube American Esoteric. All
Speaker 5: the links to my are on there. I've got a
Speaker 5: fascinating essay coming up on Arabic hermetica, and it is
Speaker 5: it is this sort of there's a lot of a
Speaker 5: lot of tangled weeds and it's it's a it's a
Speaker 5: difficult and sort of strenuous sort of study because there's
Speaker 5: there's there's not much out there, but there's there's possibly
Speaker 5: more hermetica writings attributed to Hermes in Arabic than any
Speaker 5: other language. So it's like it's like a huge trove
Speaker 5: of her medica that that have they they haven't been touched.
Speaker 5: No one is touching them, I mean the best. Like
Speaker 5: the the book the Arabic Hermes von Bladel's work was
Speaker 5: published in like I think the late two thousands and whatnot.
Speaker 5: And Walter Scott published you know, one of the larger
Speaker 5: Arabic Hermetica's and like volume four of a of a
Speaker 5: book that you know it's super hard to get now,
Speaker 5: uh and then her Medica to Litwa's version. There's only
Speaker 5: a couple of little, you know, references there, so it
Speaker 5: should be a fascinating and uh long long essays. So
Speaker 5: trudging through that material, now, yes, that is awesome.
Speaker 2: The amount of things in other languages will just never
Speaker 2: know about makes me weep.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I bought I to like, I don't know
Speaker 5: why I did this. It was like self flagellation. I
Speaker 5: bought this huge German like thousand page book in German
Speaker 5: on the mason I'm giving a lecture on just to
Speaker 5: be like, all right, I'll have this if I ever
Speaker 5: learned German, you know, but like until then, it's just
Speaker 5: gonna stare at me on the bookshelf.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Just just get a Germans English dictionary and stop going,
Speaker 2: stop plowing page by page.
Speaker 1: Right there you go, man, But thank you both very much.
Speaker 1: I thought that was awesome, really well done, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think all the people in the chat too,
Speaker 1: everybody who showed up for the live that's what's up.
Speaker 1: That's where we go for. That's where we go live.
Speaker 1: And just to just to reiterate again, it was April
Speaker 1: twenty fifth, correct, right, Colin, that's.
Speaker 5: Right, April twenty fifth, the Massonic Southeastern Masonic Symposium Asheville Lodge.
Speaker 5: We're covering the Masonic, different Masonic luminaries, so different Masons
Speaker 5: and history that deserve a little more attention and have
Speaker 5: some have some sort of mystical and esoteric elements to
Speaker 5: them as well, so should make for a good a
Speaker 5: good day of work.
Speaker 1: Awesome, nice, nice, all right, yes, well again, thank you
Speaker 1: everybody who joined again, thank you Colin and Richard. Was
Speaker 1: awesome and everybody in the chat. And until the next one,
Speaker 1: everybody be well later