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<v Speaker 1>How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with

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<v Speaker 1>you that and a special dot net Rocks patron mug.

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<v Speaker 1>Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey guess what, it's dot net rocks from Bill. This

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<v Speaker 1>is the last show we were recording. I'm Carl Franklin.

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<v Speaker 1>We're here with Sef Juarez and we'll be talking to.

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<v Speaker 2>Get that out of there. Get a little fam Sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>you gotta get it out. You know, we're a little punchy.

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<v Speaker 2>This is not only the last show of the day,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's the last show up. Oh, if you got

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<v Speaker 2>a punchy a show with a punchy dude, it's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>be great.

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<v Speaker 1>It's gonna be You've been working hard, that's right. I

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<v Speaker 1>just want to start talking to Seth. Do we really

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<v Speaker 1>have to do the intro stuff? You should do the interesting?

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<v Speaker 2>We gotta do it. You got to pay so you

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<v Speaker 2>know it's episode nineteen fifty seven. Wow, that's the year

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<v Speaker 2>I was born. It's not true. It could be in

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<v Speaker 2>a different universe very close. It could be in a

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<v Speaker 2>parallel universe. If you know quantum theory, the many worlds

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<v Speaker 2>as you know, Richard In posits that perhaps there's another

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<v Speaker 2>universe where I was born in nineteenfty seven. There's a

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<v Speaker 2>million universes. That happened, sixty seven year old set. I

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<v Speaker 2>just wanted to use the word posits in the thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And so now my job is I'm done. You must

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<v Speaker 2>have a master's degree.

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<v Speaker 1>I have something. So do you want to do the

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<v Speaker 1>history first? You want to do I didn't do the history.

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<v Speaker 1>So what happened in nineteen fifty spot Nick one?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, the first the first artificial salarate over the world,

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<v Speaker 2>and then sput Nick two. They put a dog in

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<v Speaker 2>it and she died. No, actually no, she was in

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<v Speaker 2>the Guardians of the Galaxies. Right, wait, that's not real.

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<v Speaker 2>We want the historical documents and it's worse than any think.

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<v Speaker 2>She didn't she didn't die and re entry, she didn't suffocate.

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<v Speaker 2>She overheated. There wasn't temperature controls oh thanks.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometime around here in the nineteen late nineteen fifties, electric

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<v Speaker 1>boat from General Dynamics was established in the Nautilus.

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<v Speaker 2>That was no electric boat? Is that? Is that a

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<v Speaker 2>like a line dance? What is fifty five? Isn't it?

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<v Speaker 2>The electric boat? Is that like the electric slide? But no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>no waste? The nuclear submarine? Oh yeah, the first nuclear summer, theatlis.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, Okay, I'm sorry. I had a forward memory of.

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<v Speaker 2>I also usually referenced a computer, and in nineteen fifty seven,

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<v Speaker 2>IBM released a compact computer, the six', ten only eight hundred,

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<v Speaker 2>pounds much smaller than the previous. Ones it really was

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<v Speaker 2>an improvement there you. GO i, mean if you want

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<v Speaker 2>to get, fit you get one of those commonract eight

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<v Speaker 2>hundred pounds. Computers also released the first compiler for. Fortrend hey, yo,

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<v Speaker 2>wow still running some code out. There there's as for

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<v Speaker 2>trend dot hold. On So i'm not. Kidding there are

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<v Speaker 2>some linear algebra operations that were written In fortrand that

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<v Speaker 2>people were, like let's just not do that. AGAIN i

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<v Speaker 2>think it's like some WEIRD langsos method for, computing like

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<v Speaker 2>singular value, decomposition that they're, like let's just not do that.

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<v Speaker 2>Again somebody did, that and we're, gonna we're, gonna we're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna honor them and we're just gonna leave that. Alone. Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>WOW i actually contributed this.

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<v Speaker 1>SOMEHOW i actually remember taking A fortran. Class but it

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<v Speaker 1>was like in the. Eighties, yeah a little further, on yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>too it was like in THE i did fourtran.

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<v Speaker 2>Three oh is there a sound? Effect weing? At BUT

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<v Speaker 2>i love? It all? Right, well, anyway anything else in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifty there was a lot Of there was a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of. Things there's new clear. Test it's all kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of horrible stuff listed with, computers all, right and speaking

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<v Speaker 2>of atomic, fires what are we talking about? Today, well

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<v Speaker 2>we gotta finished the fish such a. Hurry i'm not

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<v Speaker 2>in a.

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<v Speaker 1>Hurry, okay all, right let's do the better note of

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<v Speaker 1>framework roll the, music all. Right, so as you, Know

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<v Speaker 1>Jeff fritz AND I Jeff frits For microsoft And big

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<v Speaker 1>INTO ai And. Blazer we do This blazer puzzle.

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<v Speaker 2>Show AND i was just.

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<v Speaker 1>Talking to him about all of the cool THINGS i

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<v Speaker 1>saw at the, keynote including, you my friend oh hey

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<v Speaker 1>uh at the keynote it build and of course he's

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<v Speaker 1>hipped to all of this, stuff and we were kind

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<v Speaker 1>of talking about how and we talked about this with

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<v Speaker 1>some of our guests this. Week about how the prompts

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<v Speaker 1>are becoming code and instead of having code, libraries people

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<v Speaker 1>are going to start sharing prompt. Libraries Prompt so what

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<v Speaker 1>Did fritz point me? To he pointed me to sharp,

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<v Speaker 1>site which is all these prompts for Doing blazer applications

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<v Speaker 1>with the.

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<v Speaker 2>Agent oh, interesting do they? Work?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah in good hub co pilot so code style and,

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<v Speaker 1>structure naming, conventions dot net specific, guidelines sho air handling and,

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<v Speaker 1>validation like all of these great prompts to help you

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<v Speaker 1>create Great blazer.

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<v Speaker 2>Applications that's all the. Agent how about? THAT i think that's.

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<v Speaker 2>Great anything that we can do to further the work OF,

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<v Speaker 2>ai because you, Know i've BEEN i was like on

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<v Speaker 2>show like, SEVENTEEN i don't, know something like that eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>AND i was, like machine learning is the future AND

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<v Speaker 2>i was like What and we didn't understand. It then

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<v Speaker 2>we still, don't but at least it's. Working but it's,

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<v Speaker 2>true and you just still understand. It we just, believe you,

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<v Speaker 2>KNOW i really excited that people are, like let's use

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<v Speaker 2>this stuff right five seventy Six july of twenty. Ten

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<v Speaker 2>oh my, gosh aires on machines in eighteen years AND

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<v Speaker 2>i just get more. Beautiful i'm glad this is. True

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<v Speaker 2>in this, medium it's really hard to, know but it's for.

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<v Speaker 2>SURE i want you to imagine, it all.

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<v Speaker 1>Right richard Save, us who's talking to us, today.

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<v Speaker 2>Grabbed to comment off a show nineteen, nineteen which you

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<v Speaker 2>did in twenty twenty, four a little more recent In

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<v Speaker 2>october With Prascent boy here he's AN mvp DOING ai

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<v Speaker 2>related stuff that he wanted to talk, about and we

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<v Speaker 2>did talk About Copilot, studio WHICH i believe has now

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<v Speaker 2>been renamed because. Reasons, yeah And John tallon had this

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<v Speaker 2>great comments from a few months. Ago he, SAID i

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<v Speaker 2>enjoyed the. Show chat BASED ai apps are quick to stand,

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<v Speaker 2>up but tough to get right every time a man

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<v Speaker 2>rag dazzles that. First but yet it's limited without deep. Engineering.

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<v Speaker 2>Ooh in real, conversations not everything is a, question and

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<v Speaker 2>bought led chats are no. Different we must parse the user's,

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<v Speaker 2>intent evaluate the quality of their, input then apply a

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<v Speaker 2>chain of erication to fact checkbox. Responses i'm a practice

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<v Speaker 2>director in data AND II, ai And i've worked in Gen,

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<v Speaker 2>Ai AZURE Ai studio and Co Pilot, studio and despite

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<v Speaker 2>the Marketing Copilot studio isn't for your Quote jim From.

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<v Speaker 2>Accounts it's for seasoned consultants Like brashant who know how

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<v Speaker 2>to use the. Platform using it for complex, interactions like

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<v Speaker 2>a rocket launcher on a. Fly, yeah it, works but

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<v Speaker 2>it's a little over. Complicated rocket launcher on a. Fly it's,

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<v Speaker 2>like use. It, yeah let me say that. Again using

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<v Speaker 2>it for complex interactions is like using a rocket launcher

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<v Speaker 2>on a.

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<v Speaker 1>Fly it's kind of taken a nod from my term

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<v Speaker 1>swatting a fly with a.

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<v Speaker 2>Buick we had a term swatting a fly with a,

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<v Speaker 2>shotgun and my algorithms professor was, like we have an

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<v Speaker 2>algorithm for sorting that's faster than en log, in but

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<v Speaker 2>only with giant data. Sets it's like swatting a fly

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<v Speaker 2>with a. Shotgun, yes, yeah. Nice we should only explose

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<v Speaker 2>enough complexity to get the job. Done letting use His

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<v Speaker 2>harner's AI's potential without feeling. Overwhelmed after, all the goal

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<v Speaker 2>is to DEMOCRATIZE, ai not. Intimidate what year was? That

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<v Speaker 2>that was last? Week, yeah this is like a few months.

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<v Speaker 2>Ago the answer is you just, wait wait till next.

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<v Speaker 2>Years you. Know one of the things that CAME i

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<v Speaker 2>felt came out of build was this sense that nobody's

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<v Speaker 2>dominating in the space at. All, yeah there's lots of different,

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<v Speaker 2>models there's lots of different. Tools the fact that everybody

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<v Speaker 2>jumped ON mcp is. Clear nobody has the confidence to, go,

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<v Speaker 2>oh we'll go it. Alone we're all trying to find

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<v Speaker 2>standards in inter interapt with each. Other. Yeah BUT i

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<v Speaker 2>mean even EVEN mcp has. Limitations AND i have thoughts on,

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<v Speaker 2>that And i'm tired And i'm just gonna say WHAT i.

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<v Speaker 2>Think Oh, NO mtcp definitely has some. Issues there's no

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<v Speaker 2>two ways about. That but let me wrap up With john. Here,

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<v Speaker 2>john thanks you so much for your, comment and the

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<v Speaker 2>copy of Music coba is on its way to. You

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<v Speaker 2>and if you'd like a copy Of Music, COBE i

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<v Speaker 2>write a comment on the website at dot NetRocks dot

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<v Speaker 2>com or on the. Facebooks we publish every show, there

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<v Speaker 2>and if you comment there and every read it on the,

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<v Speaker 2>show we'll send you a copy Of Music. Koba And music.

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<v Speaker 1>To Code by is still going. Strong twenty two tracks

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<v Speaker 1>to help you get in the zone and focus twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five minutes each to coincide with The pomodor, method and

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<v Speaker 1>they will help.

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<v Speaker 2>YOU i actually bought the first. Ones yeah a long

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<v Speaker 2>times years.

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<v Speaker 1>Ago, yeah it was only three AND i did A,

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<v Speaker 1>KICKSTARTER i did.

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<v Speaker 2>THREE i got the. THREE i still have THE mp

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<v Speaker 2>three is somewhere in my junk drawer of one.

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<v Speaker 1>Drive, well now you can get the whole collection IN

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<v Speaker 1>mp three flak en. Wave so you can go to

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<v Speaker 1>music To code by dot net for that or you,

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<v Speaker 1>know you could just send us a comment or leave a.

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<v Speaker 2>Comment, yeah, absolutely and reading on the show you'll get

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<v Speaker 2>a copy of MUSIC o.

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<v Speaker 1>Bye, yeah all, Right So i'm going to introduce.

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<v Speaker 2>You for real areas here we go That i'm introducing.

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<v Speaker 1>It, yeah that voice that you've been listening to the

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<v Speaker 1>can who it is Is Seph wares and he works

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<v Speaker 1>in THE ai platform group At. Microsoft he received his bachelor's.

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<v Speaker 1>Degree that's, it that's your. Title Now i'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about your education because that's the part of your.

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<v Speaker 1>Bio we see his bachelors and computer science at you

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<v Speaker 1>n L v saying place that Guy fieri got his.

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<v Speaker 2>Degree we were. Partners he's a he's a machine learning master.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely with a minor in mathematics and complete his master's

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<v Speaker 1>great at The university Of utah and the field of

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<v Speaker 1>computer science And. SETH i have a picture that BECAUSE

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<v Speaker 1>i was in the front row at the build AND

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<v Speaker 1>i took a picture of.

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<v Speaker 2>You oh what WAS i? Doing? Well you you opened the.

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<v Speaker 1>Show you came out and, SAID i Am seth and you,

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<v Speaker 1>know with with somebody, else AND i DON'T i didn't recognize.

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<v Speaker 1>Her BUT i took a picture of you two and

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<v Speaker 1>here it. Is oh my, gosh That's. Kadasha, yeah she

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<v Speaker 1>is delightful human. Beings SO i sent this To, kelly my,

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<v Speaker 1>wife you, know, yes of course she actually met you

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<v Speaker 1>BEFORE i met.

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<v Speaker 2>You, yes she did, so and, she.

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<v Speaker 1>You, know she says back to me and she, says

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<v Speaker 1>that's a great. Picture but who is that black lady

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<v Speaker 1>With Ricky?

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<v Speaker 2>Martin but, WOW i do get more. Beautiful AND i, said,

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<v Speaker 2>again this is the medium for me to say these

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<v Speaker 2>kinds of. THINGS i am getting more. Beautiful look at the.

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<v Speaker 1>Picture your name is not on the, screen it's it's her. Last,

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<v Speaker 1>yeah so she wouldn't know and she didn't recognize.

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<v Speaker 2>You that is so. Funny then WHEN.

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<v Speaker 1>I told, her she, says, oh, yes that is.

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<v Speaker 2>YEAH i actually owe her a. Call she called me

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<v Speaker 2>the other day AND i haven't called. Back, oh, okay she's,

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<v Speaker 2>delightful she. Called she checks up on. Me she does. That, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>yeah so. Nice well you do need. Supervision it is.

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<v Speaker 2>True my wife has had me now for twenty two ish,

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<v Speaker 2>years and so during THE covid she may be. Tired

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<v Speaker 2>during THE.

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<v Speaker 1>Covid, times she reached out to friends of mine and

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<v Speaker 1>hers that she hadn't talked to in years and, Said,

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<v Speaker 1>hey you know, What i'm just calling BECAUSE i want

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<v Speaker 1>to check.

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<v Speaker 2>In it was.

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<v Speaker 1>GREAT i don't want, anything you, KNOW i just wanted to, Say, Hi.

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<v Speaker 2>GOSH i wish the niceness would rub off on other. People,

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<v Speaker 2>yeah it's not working. Right all.

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<v Speaker 1>Right so we're talking about agentic, hey AND i got

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<v Speaker 1>to tell, You i'm blown away by WHAT i saw.

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<v Speaker 1>HERE i, MEAN i know that there have been other

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<v Speaker 1>agents and products that work with agency and all that,

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<v Speaker 1>stuff and the guys From manet have been into, it,

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<v Speaker 1>right but they all said the same. Thing it's, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>Wow microsoft is kind of catching up to what these

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<v Speaker 1>guys have been. Doing AND i hope they dominate because

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<v Speaker 1>they have the, power, Right microsoft has the power Of

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<v Speaker 1>azure and all of these. Things and WHEN i learned ABOUT,

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<v Speaker 1>mcp we've been talking about anybody who's listened to the

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<v Speaker 1>last six, shows oh, yeah knows about this about the,

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<v Speaker 1>okay is it.

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<v Speaker 2>Model model context context.

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<v Speaker 1>Protocol so this is the protocol by which agents can

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<v Speaker 1>talk to your resources to do things like talk to

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<v Speaker 1>YOUR sql, server talk To azure resources and all that.

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff and you can just tell it to go do, things,

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<v Speaker 1>yes and it will figure them.

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<v Speaker 2>Out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes the combination of AN llm like get Hub copilot

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<v Speaker 1>AND mcp connections to other resources just blows my. Mind

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<v Speaker 1>it changes the.

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<v Speaker 2>Game, Yeah i'd love to get more low level, though

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<v Speaker 2>so folks have an understanding of what an agent actually

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<v Speaker 2>is because there is This what happened was and you

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<v Speaker 2>were there with me for fifteen. Years i've been in

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<v Speaker 2>this space for fifteen. Years nobody, cared and then we

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<v Speaker 2>flip from nobody cared to this stuff is like jungle,

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<v Speaker 2>magic or this stuff is like going to throw you

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<v Speaker 2>into outer space or.

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<v Speaker 1>So we didn't have to create the. Models, yeah that

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<v Speaker 1>was the hard.

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<v Speaker 2>Thing it's. True but but what happened is we kind

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<v Speaker 2>of missed the in between part Of, hey let's explain

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<v Speaker 2>what these things are doing and why it's actually. Useful

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<v Speaker 2>because there's a THERE'S i don't want. To as you,

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<v Speaker 2>know we had SEVERAL ai winters because of the over,

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<v Speaker 2>hype AND i AM i am concerned that if we

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<v Speaker 2>overhype too much that there's going to be a correction

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<v Speaker 2>when there really doesn't need to be because it actually

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<v Speaker 2>this time does do qualitatively cool. Stuff, yes and that's

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<v Speaker 2>What i'm worried. ABOUT i, mean the winters were mostly

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<v Speaker 2>induced by the fact that there was a limited utility

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<v Speaker 2>what was being made, exactly and there was a limited

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<v Speaker 2>of computational power to actually make the model the thing

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<v Speaker 2>we wanted them. To hinton's famous papers actually the paper

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<v Speaker 2>talking about backpropagation SAYING i can't do with this equipment

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<v Speaker 2>in like nineteen eighty four mm. Hmmm and then In

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<v Speaker 2>suskovar does off that paper in two thousand and nine

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<v Speaker 2>and they start working on the image net. Problem, yes

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<v Speaker 2>and those models are quite simple as compared to the

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<v Speaker 2>ones that are now FOR. LMS i, MEAN i can

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<v Speaker 2>get into the architecture and stuff of. It they're just much.

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<v Speaker 2>Bigger and the thing about the thing about neural networks

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<v Speaker 2>of that size Is i've spoken To Turing award winners about,

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<v Speaker 2>like how do you shape these actual? Models to do

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<v Speaker 2>the things you, Want and the reality is we don't

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<v Speaker 2>really have a good understanding or. Explanation but what happens

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<v Speaker 2>is they're innovations that come out like a transformer model

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<v Speaker 2>with attention that was really designed to do translation that,

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<v Speaker 2>somehow when you made it, bigger learned language, well presented

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<v Speaker 2>language in a form that you could anthropomorphize. Correct and

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<v Speaker 2>that's that's the Part richard does not like at. All

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<v Speaker 2>the thing about it is is WHEN i picture these

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<v Speaker 2>things in my, head it's like the matrix for, me

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<v Speaker 2>Where i'm picturing like there's, weights multiplying vectors and then

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<v Speaker 2>going over some kind of smoothing function to, remove you,

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<v Speaker 2>know the linearities so that these scenes can predict complex.

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<v Speaker 2>Things but in the, end all these things are doing

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<v Speaker 2>is you're getting a string of words that are broken

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<v Speaker 2>up into vectors that get passed in and multiplied by

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<v Speaker 2>the transformer model to figure out how these things are,

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<v Speaker 2>related pushed through a giant neural network multiple, times and

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<v Speaker 2>the output is a giant vector of the entire space

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<v Speaker 2>with a probably distribution that says which token should you

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<v Speaker 2>put out? Next so when it looks like it's, typing

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<v Speaker 2>it isn't it's just going back through the, model and

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<v Speaker 2>that's what these things are. Doing and as, programmers the

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<v Speaker 2>only thing we can control is what goes in the

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<v Speaker 2>front the. Prompt and that's the beefy, bit right that

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<v Speaker 2>people don't. Understand at that, point when we first started

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<v Speaker 2>doing this, stuff it was magical for. Chat, Yeah but

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<v Speaker 2>then early, on about maybe like six months into, it

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<v Speaker 2>folks were starting to use these things for something that

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<v Speaker 2>we liked to THAT i like to call intent. Mapping

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<v Speaker 2>Cassie brevy AND i worked together for a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>years and that's what we called, it where we would

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<v Speaker 2>make THE lm like look at a block of text and,

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<v Speaker 2>say is this question a support or a sales? Question

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<v Speaker 2>and it was at that point that these, things because

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<v Speaker 2>we allowed them to decide is it a support or

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<v Speaker 2>a sales? Question when the code, branched those things all

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<v Speaker 2>of a sudden were imbued with this notion OF i

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<v Speaker 2>can make a CHOICE lm on what this thing. Is

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<v Speaker 2>and at that point those things became, agents, yes and

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<v Speaker 2>and and because we trusted them to answer our. Questions. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah but but but nottice that WHEN i was doing this,

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<v Speaker 2>ENGINEERING i narrowed the task to very specific you will

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<v Speaker 2>say either support or, sales and that's. It and what

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<v Speaker 2>that did is it allowed me to create a prompt

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<v Speaker 2>that made it so that any user input that we

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<v Speaker 2>put in, it it would tell me support or sales every.

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<v Speaker 2>Time and my code had an if statement if support do,

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<v Speaker 2>this if sales do, this, right and that at that,

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<v Speaker 2>point that is the most simplistic way of thinking about an.

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<v Speaker 2>Agent when AN lm has the has the ability to

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<v Speaker 2>choose reason overset of data and then act on the

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<v Speaker 2>reasoning you've. Generated and effectively that became a squishy programming

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<v Speaker 2>control structure and that's what an agent is. Fundamentally but you're,

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<v Speaker 2>like but it's got to be more than. That seth

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<v Speaker 2>what about the tools? Stuff at that people are, like,

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<v Speaker 2>well let's do structured output so that it could output adjacent.

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<v Speaker 2>Thing and if we can output adjacent, thing why can't

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<v Speaker 2>we output adjacent Thing that says this function with these.

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<v Speaker 2>Parameters and at that point those things became tools and

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<v Speaker 2>now instead of supporter, sales it, said run this function

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<v Speaker 2>with these. Parameters and that is the extent of all

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<v Speaker 2>of the, magic sauce of all of anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Agentic NOW i want to say something Here, seth you

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<v Speaker 1>are among some of the most brilliant people That i've ever.

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<v Speaker 2>Met, oh thank.

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<v Speaker 1>You richard is one of. Them you are one of.

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<v Speaker 1>Them but the other people are like dev express. People,

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah Mark miller And Richard morris like these guys and. You,

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<v Speaker 1>NOW i want to tell the listeners if you don't

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<v Speaker 1>know Who seth. Is, seth you had an open SOURCE

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<v Speaker 1>AI mL library Before microsoft hired. You, yeah before they

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<v Speaker 1>Had AZURE. Ai you had this open source. Library we

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00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:03.240
<v Speaker 1>did a thing about it on D NR tv that

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<v Speaker 1>showed it to.

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<v Speaker 2>ME i didn't understand. It, yeah of COURSE i kind of.

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<v Speaker 2>Did but but you were doing.

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<v Speaker 1>That you've been doing this longer Than microsoft has been doing.

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00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:14.400
<v Speaker 2>It way before it was. COOL i was doing before

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00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.279
<v Speaker 2>it was. Cool the secret, sauce, though is machine learning

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<v Speaker 2>has been happening since nineteen fifty. Six Frank rosenblatt The,

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<v Speaker 2>perceptron which is the basic foundation OF.

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<v Speaker 1>Ski so that was the last, show righteen Fifty.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, hey, yeah let's call back To Yesterye, frank we've missed.

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<v Speaker 2>Now but the reality is That microsoft's been DOING ai

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<v Speaker 2>in the form of machine learning for a very long.

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<v Speaker 2>Time WHAT i was doing IS i was trying to

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<v Speaker 2>bring it to the dot net community BECAUSE i recognize

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<v Speaker 2>that there is a space for algorithms which are learned

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<v Speaker 2>instead of, programmed AND i thought that IF i could

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<v Speaker 2>do a. Thing OBVIOUSLY i haven't kept up on that

377
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:57.319
<v Speaker 2>for a while because it was just. Me BUT i

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<v Speaker 2>implement a whole set of stuff to make that. Easier

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<v Speaker 2>but my goal has been for the last you, know

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen twenty, YEARS i want people to know exactly what

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00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:08.440
<v Speaker 2>these things are, doing so that with, confidence you can

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<v Speaker 2>make them do even cooler.

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00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Things, right, yeah, Yeah and so now you're At, microsoft

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<v Speaker 1>you're working on THE ai.

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00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:19.400
<v Speaker 2>Stuff that's The azure. Stuff that's. Right The Italians channel,

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00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.200
<v Speaker 2>Nine oh, yeah, No channel nine was. Great you had

387
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:24.000
<v Speaker 2>such a good. TIME i really. GOOD i love. That

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00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:25.799
<v Speaker 2>and then somebody figured out actually knew them all, stuff

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00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:27.440
<v Speaker 2>and it was. Important it's, like you come with, me you,

390
00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.720
<v Speaker 2>know CAN i be? HONEST i ACTUALLY I actually it

391
00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:32.319
<v Speaker 2>was different than that because AS i started doing The

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00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:36.160
<v Speaker 2>channel nine, stuff the reason WHY i knew what questions

393
00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:38.519
<v Speaker 2>asked is BECAUSE i already knew their content AND i

394
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.920
<v Speaker 2>knew how to make them talk about and make things.

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00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:44.519
<v Speaker 2>Sing but people just started saying stuff to me, Like,

396
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:46.720
<v Speaker 2>seth don't you ever get tired of all this technical?

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00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Stuff And i'm, like oh, man MAYBE i should move

398
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.640
<v Speaker 2>into something more. Technical maybe. Maybe so THEN i moved

399
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.880
<v Speaker 2>into DevRel FOR aiml and Then John, montgomery who was

400
00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:01.480
<v Speaker 2>A cvp Of young he was, Like, seth come work

401
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:03.519
<v Speaker 2>for me in THE ai core.

402
00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:06.920
<v Speaker 1>Group so that's what you obviously knew your, pedigree, right

403
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:07.559
<v Speaker 1>they knew they.

404
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.240
<v Speaker 2>Did nobody, knew LIKE i THINK i think people record

405
00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:14.240
<v Speaker 2>like see me and like Because i'm pretty jovial and

406
00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:17.440
<v Speaker 2>and BUT I i.

407
00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Think you don't come across as AN ai.

408
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.720
<v Speaker 2>Scientist, NO i KNOW i do. Not and but if

409
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:24.000
<v Speaker 2>you looked at, me obviously we've said this many, Times

410
00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:27.440
<v Speaker 2>i'm very beautiful in, appearance and people would not Like mark.

411
00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:31.039
<v Speaker 2>Exactly people wouldn't, know BUT I i really have been

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00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:34.599
<v Speaker 2>doing machine learning. Forever and, again my primary goal is

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00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:38.000
<v Speaker 2>for people to understand at a profound level what these things.

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00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:41.559
<v Speaker 2>Are and to, me they are basically a new programming

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00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.200
<v Speaker 2>control structure which can Take english and point you to

416
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:50.200
<v Speaker 2>what to run. Next, yeah fairly still Constrained, english, yes, well,

417
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.880
<v Speaker 2>no even Regular english with AN, lm because if you

418
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:55.079
<v Speaker 2>can you can type into AN ll m like Bad.

419
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:58.279
<v Speaker 2>English and for, EXAMPLE i did a demo at my

420
00:21:58.440 --> 00:22:01.519
<v Speaker 2>talk two days ago WHERE i showed him the supporter

421
00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:04.519
<v Speaker 2>sales thing AND i, said my tent is, broken, yo

422
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:08.079
<v Speaker 2>AND i spelled it wrong and it said support AND

423
00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:10.880
<v Speaker 2>i was, like what's the borst tent in the, world?

424
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Yo and it was like burst and not b e

425
00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:16.200
<v Speaker 2>r S t BECAUSE i fat fingered it. Right and

426
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:21.680
<v Speaker 2>then it was, like, uh. Sales notice that because it's

427
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:25.039
<v Speaker 2>a large language, model it's able to reason over the

428
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:29.599
<v Speaker 2>text and then create the output that we. Want and

429
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:31.920
<v Speaker 2>if that output is a, function then it tells you

430
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:33.599
<v Speaker 2>what to run. Next so it.

431
00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:37.039
<v Speaker 1>Didn't understand, bursts so it figured that you really meant worst.

432
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.599
<v Speaker 2>A best, Best, yeah, okay best b e r S.

433
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.440
<v Speaker 2>T and it was, like even if it was, worst

434
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:47.440
<v Speaker 2>it's still a sales and it still was able to

435
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.519
<v Speaker 2>figure it. Out and and that was with me, again

436
00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:53.839
<v Speaker 2>and THEN i. CAN'T i don't know how to emphasize

437
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.799
<v Speaker 2>this is. Enough, basically you get a control structure that

438
00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:58.799
<v Speaker 2>gives You english and tells you what things run. Next

439
00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:02.200
<v Speaker 2>WHAT mcp does and whether it does it well or

440
00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:04.799
<v Speaker 2>not is neither here nor. THERE i don't think it's

441
00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Necessary what it does is it allows you to query

442
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:14.000
<v Speaker 2>what functions can you? Call and what it does is

443
00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:17.400
<v Speaker 2>it maps those into the tool calls that are available

444
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:19.440
<v Speaker 2>to the L, m and then it can call. It

445
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:21.839
<v Speaker 2>but you can do that With swagger AND. Rest, sure,

446
00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:23.039
<v Speaker 2>yeah but it's.

447
00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:27.079
<v Speaker 1>Not it doesn't have the the almost it does.

448
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Reasoning it, does but it does because the reasoning happens

449
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:33.799
<v Speaker 2>in THE. Lm and what it outputs is it outputs

450
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.400
<v Speaker 2>what functions Are swagger AND rest don't have that they,

451
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:38.240
<v Speaker 2>don't but you don't need it BECAUSE, mcp if you

452
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:40.799
<v Speaker 2>look at, it is basically Like. Swagger it tells you

453
00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:43.759
<v Speaker 2>what tools are, available and it's LIKE, rest and it

454
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:45.680
<v Speaker 2>tells you how to call. Them, Right and the thing

455
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:47.920
<v Speaker 2>THAT i like about like those kind of and OPEN,

456
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:50.880
<v Speaker 2>api which has been NOW i think the Next swagger is, that,

457
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:54.400
<v Speaker 2>RIGHT i don't. Know but with OPEN api and WITH

458
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:57.359
<v Speaker 2>rest you're able to do the same things but with

459
00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:01.359
<v Speaker 2>the benefit of like twenty years of security, handling with,

460
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:06.880
<v Speaker 2>headers WITH, ooth with token, negotiation et. Cetera and so that's,

461
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:09.920
<v Speaker 2>why like IF mcp gets you, going like WHEN i

462
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:13.039
<v Speaker 2>USE vb, six, right it got me. GOING i loved

463
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:14.720
<v Speaker 2>it because it was able to. Get but then when

464
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.640
<v Speaker 2>you were, LIKE i need to be more memory, CONSCIOUS

465
00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:19.599
<v Speaker 2>i needed to be more. Careful then you can skip

466
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:22.759
<v Speaker 2>down a layer if you if you want. To but,

467
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:25.799
<v Speaker 2>AGAIN i love THAT mcp has gotten people thinking about.

468
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:29.279
<v Speaker 2>It but the reasoning doesn't happen WITH. Mcp, no it's,

469
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:32.359
<v Speaker 2>yeah it just tells you what function are. Next but

470
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.119
<v Speaker 2>the magic that makes it look good is once it

471
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:38.000
<v Speaker 2>runs the, function there's a thread that has like what

472
00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:40.599
<v Speaker 2>the QUESTION i? Asked it asks for a Function i'm

473
00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:43.319
<v Speaker 2>like pointing like people can. See and then when it executes,

474
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:45.920
<v Speaker 2>out it puts that function return call back on the

475
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.640
<v Speaker 2>thread and THE lm is called again with that on its,

476
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:51.000
<v Speaker 2>thread and then it comes with the. Answer and so

477
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:56.039
<v Speaker 2>that actually going out from THE ai space is effectively

478
00:24:56.119 --> 00:25:01.559
<v Speaker 2>bridging the gap FROM ai reasoning to perative or functional. Code.

479
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Right how we MAKE sky? IT i get? It, NO

480
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:05.720
<v Speaker 2>i mean it's NOT i don't even think IT'S.

481
00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Sky and it may not be the best security wise right,

482
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:11.680
<v Speaker 1>now but it's clearly where everybody wants to.

483
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.359
<v Speaker 2>Go, yeah it's because it simplifies. It but my sense

484
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.519
<v Speaker 2>is that as you see, This i'm the prognostica, here,

485
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.200
<v Speaker 2>right BECAUSE i like doing. That as you see this thing,

486
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:24.880
<v Speaker 2>maturing it's going to be indistinguishable from rest right and discovery.

487
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Protocols that it's the way the embracement OF mcp says to,

488
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:31.440
<v Speaker 2>me everybody wants to interrupt with everybody. ELSE i fact

489
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:32.839
<v Speaker 2>that we could come up with a better way to do,

490
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:35.839
<v Speaker 2>it and in fact already. Have we could just be

491
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:38.480
<v Speaker 2>publishing APIs for crying. Out, Yeah And i'm telling, you

492
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:40.680
<v Speaker 2>like we we had a phase At microsoft and bless

493
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Our hearts where we went full. Wisdole, yes and.

494
00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:47.759
<v Speaker 1>That's what The southern people say about the town drunk

495
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:48.519
<v Speaker 1>bless his.

496
00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:52.279
<v Speaker 2>Heart, yeah bless our. Heart But wisdole was the same,

497
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:57.279
<v Speaker 2>thing the same kind of desire to to abstract over.

498
00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Primitives and then we went back to primitive still being

499
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:06.759
<v Speaker 2>WSD l Or Web Service Discovery language. Wisdom does that sound? Familiar,

500
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:09.440
<v Speaker 2>friends done done? Dumb and so What i'm telling you

501
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:11.079
<v Speaker 2>is that and some of the things you saw with

502
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.400
<v Speaker 2>N a Web the reason why this is such a cool.

503
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Space if we haven't talked about AN a web on the,

504
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:18.880
<v Speaker 1>show oh, really yeah this WEEK i haven't.

505
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.400
<v Speaker 2>EITHER i started looking at. It but the intuition here

506
00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:25.839
<v Speaker 2>is if you can language do stuff and then call

507
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.839
<v Speaker 2>stuff and then language do stuff on the, Out like

508
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.160
<v Speaker 2>what you if you hook this up to the in

509
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:35.559
<v Speaker 2>language tool, stuff, Right you're? Fired, yeah you're my problem

510
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:37.279
<v Speaker 2>WITH nl. WEBS i keep, thinking why are you talking About?

511
00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.720
<v Speaker 2>Dutch people's confused The dutch. Web but hopefully that helps

512
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:44.599
<v Speaker 2>BECAUSE i really want to emphasize that once you know

513
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.200
<v Speaker 2>that that's what it's doing at a low level and

514
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:48.640
<v Speaker 2>you play with it that, way it changes the way

515
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:51.359
<v Speaker 2>you think about These. SURE i had a journalist talk

516
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.240
<v Speaker 2>to me and, say, Hey, SETH i get a lot

517
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:56.519
<v Speaker 2>of questions about SHOULD i trust these? Things and my

518
00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:59.599
<v Speaker 2>response surprised. HIM i, SAID i don't trust these. Things,

519
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:02.000
<v Speaker 2>no don't be. Silly that's WHY i program them the

520
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:05.720
<v Speaker 2>WAY i. DO i restrict what they have to. DO

521
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:09.680
<v Speaker 2>i restrict the tool calls that they, have and then

522
00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:12.599
<v Speaker 2>when the tool calls are, CALLED i write the code

523
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:16.480
<v Speaker 2>that the tool that what the tool responds. With because

524
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.519
<v Speaker 2>all these things are effectively becoming part of the prompt

525
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:23.519
<v Speaker 2>for the next tokens to. Generate and that is when

526
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:27.079
<v Speaker 2>you get that, Intuition you're, like, oh that MEANS i

527
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:29.640
<v Speaker 2>can do this ANYWAY i want to ye.

528
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:33.240
<v Speaker 1>And that's that's WHERE i think we've been talking about

529
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:37.759
<v Speaker 1>this this week, too that the attributes of the program

530
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:42.319
<v Speaker 1>or the future are going to be imaginations over technical

531
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:47.759
<v Speaker 1>probsolutely imagination mean and we may be held back a

532
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:49.680
<v Speaker 1>little bit by what we think we can do and

533
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.559
<v Speaker 1>what we can't. Do but somebody who doesn't have that

534
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of you, know, limitation self, limitation will be able

535
00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:57.920
<v Speaker 1>to do amazing.

536
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:00.759
<v Speaker 2>Things. Yeah like if you watch the keynote on day,

537
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:05.440
<v Speaker 2>two you Saw Amanda foster And elijah on stage talking

538
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:08.839
<v Speaker 2>to this thing that it was executing a bunch of

539
00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:11.279
<v Speaker 2>stuff on their. BEHALF i think it was. Software it

540
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:13.839
<v Speaker 2>was literally software BECAUSE i KNOW i, WROTE i wrote

541
00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:16.359
<v Speaker 2>THE i wrote the website and the back. End amanda

542
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:18.920
<v Speaker 2>worked on the, agent And elijah worked on the on the.

543
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Evaluations but the thing about it is it was actually running.

544
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:25.559
<v Speaker 2>Live that thing was actually happening. Live and one of

545
00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:27.400
<v Speaker 2>the things that we had is once you get into

546
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:29.839
<v Speaker 2>a single, agent it makes, sense but when you get

547
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:32.400
<v Speaker 2>into multi, agent you wonder, like, well what is the

548
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:36.880
<v Speaker 2>interface between one agent and? Another and the surprising thing

549
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.880
<v Speaker 2>is that the interface is actually language, weird which is, weird,

550
00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:44.640
<v Speaker 2>Right so for, Example i'll give you, example the voice

551
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:46.519
<v Speaker 2>agent that we, made and if you watch the, keynote

552
00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:48.839
<v Speaker 2>you'll see her talking to. It the voice agent is

553
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:51.839
<v Speaker 2>using THE gpt four oh Real TIME, api which has

554
00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:54.839
<v Speaker 2>the also has the ability to issue function. Calls, Okay

555
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:57.319
<v Speaker 2>and so what we did is we collected the list

556
00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:01.359
<v Speaker 2>of azure Ai foundry agents that we made Andree foundry

557
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:04.480
<v Speaker 2>AND i just loaded them up and then she picked

558
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.240
<v Speaker 2>the ones she wanted because she was working on. Them

559
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:09.720
<v Speaker 2>and what it did is it mapped those other agents

560
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:14.119
<v Speaker 2>as tool calls interesting to the voice. Agent but you're, like,

561
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:16.920
<v Speaker 2>well what did you pass to the? Agent, well the

562
00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:20.960
<v Speaker 2>agents themselves when you run, them have this property called additional,

563
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.680
<v Speaker 2>instructions which means you can augment their system prompt and

564
00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:27.240
<v Speaker 2>then that's. It that's all you can. Do so WHAT

565
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:30.640
<v Speaker 2>i did IS i mapped all of those agents as tool,

566
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.440
<v Speaker 2>calls gave it a function. Name you're back to sales

567
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:36.000
<v Speaker 2>and support, again that's all this, IS i. Know and

568
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:40.039
<v Speaker 2>THEN i, said you passed voice agent additional instructions and

569
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:43.279
<v Speaker 2>ask it for what you wanted to. Do so the

570
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:47.759
<v Speaker 2>voice agent then is taking the initial requests and assessing

571
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:49.519
<v Speaker 2>it to go which agent to go, to back to

572
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:51.880
<v Speaker 2>your sales and. Support that's. Right then taking the portion

573
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.440
<v Speaker 2>of the requests that makes sense for that, agent plus

574
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:57.640
<v Speaker 2>the additional, instruction let's send it on. Down but it's

575
00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:00.519
<v Speaker 2>even more than. That it actually asks, it can you

576
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:03.079
<v Speaker 2>help me with? This and we were me And amanda

577
00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:05.000
<v Speaker 2>because it's like in the two in the, morning we're

578
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.039
<v Speaker 2>looking at this, stuff like because we're on this stuff all.

579
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Night we looked at the law because we Ad jason

580
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:14.920
<v Speaker 2>printed out everything and we could, see, uh image agent system,

581
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:17.359
<v Speaker 2>instructions you are to generate a blah blah blah. Question

582
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:21.000
<v Speaker 2>can you generate an? Image it was Actual english and

583
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:23.680
<v Speaker 2>we were, like holy, cow this is this is amazing

584
00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:26.640
<v Speaker 2>and the software being polite to. Software, yes it.

585
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.480
<v Speaker 1>Was really cook but but it's nothing. New if you

586
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:34.640
<v Speaker 1>look at the S MT smtp protocol when you connect

587
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:38.480
<v Speaker 1>When i'm When gmail connects to an S mvp, server it,

588
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:41.960
<v Speaker 1>says you, know, hello And I'm Carl, Franklin carl frank

589
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:47.000
<v Speaker 1>and THE smtp server actually writes, back, Hello Carl, franklin

590
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:48.240
<v Speaker 1>nice to meet.

591
00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:50.640
<v Speaker 2>You, yes but we're not talking part of the. Protocol

592
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:53.480
<v Speaker 2>it's Not eliza in This, NO i, KNOW.

593
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:55.759
<v Speaker 1>I, know but but you know that those kind of

594
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:58.160
<v Speaker 1>friendly things have been.

595
00:30:57.519 --> 00:30:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Protocols for a long. Time but the difference is that

596
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:02.440
<v Speaker 2>the only things are being generated by the through the

597
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:05.279
<v Speaker 2>agency of AN. LLM i get. It it's, big big.

598
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:12.200
<v Speaker 2>CHANGE i do question if if if the politeness affects

599
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:16.400
<v Speaker 2>the prompt. Results, yes it absolutely. Does And i'll tell.

600
00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:18.880
<v Speaker 2>You i'll tell you what happens And i'll tell. You

601
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.480
<v Speaker 2>so there was a part of the demo Where amanda

602
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:25.960
<v Speaker 2>generates an image for a hackathon and they AND i

603
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.559
<v Speaker 2>don't think they understood because someone backstage is, like, hey

604
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:32.359
<v Speaker 2>can you change the image to something more? Happy and we're, like,

605
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.039
<v Speaker 2>no it generates it every. Time it's it's doing it

606
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:38.640
<v Speaker 2>on its. Own and a man is, like but we

607
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.440
<v Speaker 2>can change it by telling, it please make the image more,

608
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:48.319
<v Speaker 2>happy and like we made that change in The english

609
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:50.839
<v Speaker 2>and the and not in the voice controller because that's

610
00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:52.559
<v Speaker 2>the thing we talked, to but in the literal little

611
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:55.720
<v Speaker 2>agent the, customer and it called, it called. It and

612
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:58.400
<v Speaker 2>then it was, like and now everyone's happy at the.

613
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:01.079
<v Speaker 2>Hackathon and and because everyone thought we were using some

614
00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:05.319
<v Speaker 2>like pre baked image and, no it's not every, time

615
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.039
<v Speaker 2>and then we did, that and then it was really cool.

616
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:09.319
<v Speaker 1>All, RIGHT i think we got to take a, break

617
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:12.079
<v Speaker 1>so we will be right back after these very important

618
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:16.880
<v Speaker 1>messages don't go. Away did you know there's a dot

619
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:21.680
<v Speaker 1>net on aws. Community follow the social media, blogs YouTube

620
00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:25.519
<v Speaker 1>influencers and open source projects and add your own. Voice

621
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:29.279
<v Speaker 1>get plugged into the dot net on aws community at

622
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:32.920
<v Speaker 1>aws Dot amazon dot, com slash dot, net.

623
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:36.799
<v Speaker 2>And we're.

624
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:39.440
<v Speaker 1>Back it's dot net. Rocks I'm Carl, Franklin I'm Richard,

625
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:42.359
<v Speaker 1>campbell And Seth warez is. Here we are JUST i

626
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:45.279
<v Speaker 1>feel like we could be talking for, hours hours an,

627
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:48.680
<v Speaker 1>hour so much to talk, about but we're talking about

628
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:54.359
<v Speaker 1>agentic coding and. PROGRAMMING i Took microsoft Agent mode In

629
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:57.119
<v Speaker 1>Visual studio for a spin yesterday to go.

630
00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Good, okay it went really.

631
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.119
<v Speaker 1>WELL i gave it some tasked to create some stuff

632
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:05.039
<v Speaker 1>THAT i knew how to do BECAUSE i wanted to.

633
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:08.519
<v Speaker 1>See but there was one very tricky thing that it

634
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:11.839
<v Speaker 1>was intuitive for it to, do but it didn't. Work

635
00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:17.240
<v Speaker 1>so it's not like agent mode is going to compile

636
00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:18.160
<v Speaker 1>your code.

637
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:18.400
<v Speaker 2>And see if it.

638
00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Works it's just going to do what it thinks is. Right, yes,

639
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:23.200
<v Speaker 1>SORRY i didn't meet us the ord. Thing it's going

640
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:26.279
<v Speaker 1>to use what it assesses to be the correct. Answer

641
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.920
<v Speaker 1>so but WHEN i went and told, it, no that's.

642
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:33.480
<v Speaker 1>Wrong this doesn't work on this particular. Object you're going

643
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:36.240
<v Speaker 1>to have to subclass, this it, said oh. Okay AND

644
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:38.759
<v Speaker 1>i didn't tell it what to. Do ALL i had

645
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:40.640
<v Speaker 1>to say was you're going to have to subclass this,

646
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:42.200
<v Speaker 1>subject and it figured it.

647
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.319
<v Speaker 2>Out it's pretty cool. Stuff one of the things that

648
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:48.160
<v Speaker 2>you're going to find is that if you ever have

649
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:51.680
<v Speaker 2>an agentic thing that is not quite doing what you

650
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:55.720
<v Speaker 2>want in, general from an engineering, perceptive for, me it

651
00:33:55.799 --> 00:33:59.480
<v Speaker 2>means that they've overstuffed what they want a single agent to.

652
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:05.839
<v Speaker 2>Do so the actual engineering problem becomes agent specificity versus agent.

653
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Count and that's an engineering, issue, right because if you

654
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.880
<v Speaker 2>have too many, agents it might cost, more or it

655
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:15.760
<v Speaker 2>might it might work. Slower if you have too few,

656
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:18.480
<v Speaker 2>agents the recall isn't going to be as, good, Right

657
00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:20.960
<v Speaker 2>and so the actual engineering problem is that it turns

658
00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:23.639
<v Speaker 2>out the agent you use was. Able once you specify

659
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:25.760
<v Speaker 2>down a little, bit it made things. Better but if

660
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:28.159
<v Speaker 2>you think you're going to make a single agent with

661
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:31.440
<v Speaker 2>like a two page prompt with fifteen, tools it's not

662
00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.559
<v Speaker 2>going to do the right. Thing and that's the trade

663
00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:36.519
<v Speaker 2>off from an engineering pler because now that you know

664
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:39.840
<v Speaker 2>you have to make it, specific you have to limit

665
00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:42.800
<v Speaker 2>its tool because it's an interesting switch from what build

666
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:45.039
<v Speaker 2>up lms the first, place which is making them bigger and.

667
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Bigger now we're, going, hey if you wanted me to respond.

668
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Better but see that's the thing, small that's a. Thing

669
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:52.199
<v Speaker 2>it's not THE lms that are getting, right it's the

670
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:55.760
<v Speaker 2>tasks that you're assigning THE. Lm so it's THE. Lm

671
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:58.000
<v Speaker 2>let's just fix THE lm for. One let's just SAY gbd. Four,

672
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:01.880
<v Speaker 2>oh like that models, Huge but like you are gonna

673
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:05.320
<v Speaker 2>narrow the agent's task to your job is to send

674
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:08.920
<v Speaker 2>an email to the right. Place and then here are

675
00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:12.760
<v Speaker 2>the tools send email or delete email or. Whatever those

676
00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.159
<v Speaker 2>are the only. Things that thing is gonna be very

677
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:16.960
<v Speaker 2>good at sending, emails and it's gonna be very good

678
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:18.679
<v Speaker 2>to be, like, HEY i need to send an emails

679
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:22.760
<v Speaker 2>to whom please type or tell me the. Email and

680
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.719
<v Speaker 2>then it's gonna be, like please validate the. Email what

681
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:28.440
<v Speaker 2>content do you? Want because it's trying to fill out

682
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:31.800
<v Speaker 2>the parametery of the function call because that's what the

683
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:35.199
<v Speaker 2>prompt wants it to. Do and that's what's. Happening so

684
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:37.679
<v Speaker 2>for your, case LIKE i worry like even in some

685
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:39.719
<v Speaker 2>of the tools that we, make maybe At, microsoft maybe

686
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:43.679
<v Speaker 2>they're too broad and that's where you find this notion of.

687
00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Hallucination now people aren't gonna like, this but the elem's

688
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:50.920
<v Speaker 2>job is to actually make up. Tokens if you give

689
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:53.559
<v Speaker 2>it too broad a, thing it's gonna make stuff. Up

690
00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:56.280
<v Speaker 2>if you get it to if you give it a narrow,

691
00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:58.800
<v Speaker 2>thing it's gonna make the right stuff. Up BUT i

692
00:35:58.840 --> 00:35:59.519
<v Speaker 2>thought that's.

693
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.920
<v Speaker 1>What the point of the agent THAT i access in

694
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.920
<v Speaker 1>visual studio, is and it's NOT gpd four oh with

695
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:08.920
<v Speaker 1>this broad uh set of knowledge or. Whatever i'm, Sorry,

696
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:11.360
<v Speaker 1>RICHARD i didn't mean to use the. KNOWLEDGE i have

697
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:14.400
<v Speaker 1>to apologize every TIME i answerpomorphize than LL.

698
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:16.760
<v Speaker 2>M but he is. Right thank you keep him on. Track, yeah,

699
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:20.360
<v Speaker 2>No i'm. SORRY i apologize now ALREADY i. Apologize please

700
00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:23.480
<v Speaker 2>be with the pigmies In New. Guinea. Yeah.

701
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:27.519
<v Speaker 1>Amen but it narrows the focus to truss the things

702
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:31.159
<v Speaker 1>that are in. Code so theoretically it should know everything

703
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:34.119
<v Speaker 1>about the Language i'm using the, markup you, know If

704
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:37.280
<v Speaker 1>i'm Using blazer or. Whatever so it's got to UNDERSTAND

705
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:39.360
<v Speaker 1>html and JavaScript and all Those you're.

706
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Gonna love this. Answer it knows. Nothing it knows only

707
00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:44.679
<v Speaker 2>what You i'm trained on. It, well, yeah so there

708
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:46.280
<v Speaker 2>there is a, yeah so that's WHAT i. Mean, Yeah

709
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:48.679
<v Speaker 2>so there's certain models that are actually Like, codex for,

710
00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:52.400
<v Speaker 2>example is perfectly trained on, code but it doesn't know

711
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:57.039
<v Speaker 2>like in my, head it doesn't know the. Languages it

712
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.480
<v Speaker 2>knows that if you give it this sequence of programming or,

713
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:03.760
<v Speaker 2>questions it's going to return this. Sequence let me just

714
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:04.800
<v Speaker 2>add this to the.

715
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:08.440
<v Speaker 1>EQUATION i did the same problem with chatchipt AND i

716
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:11.639
<v Speaker 1>did get the right. Answer, yes, so but the thing

717
00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:15.760
<v Speaker 1>that was The Microsoft agent mode In Visual studio did

718
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:17.320
<v Speaker 1>not give me the right answer.

719
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Because it's a different.

720
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:21.679
<v Speaker 1>Model, Right but wouldn't it be narrowed down to just

721
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:25.639
<v Speaker 1>the programming stuff like why did CHAT gpt with vast

722
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:29.159
<v Speaker 1>programming and learning that it did on all this data

723
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:31.159
<v Speaker 1>provide a better answer.

724
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:37.239
<v Speaker 2>Because models are stochastic, processes and the thing about one

725
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:39.679
<v Speaker 2>model versus another is one will do better with the

726
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:41.880
<v Speaker 2>same prompt or. Not and so that's when he gets

727
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:47.159
<v Speaker 2>the college. Words that's five dollars five dollar. Word it's

728
00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:50.679
<v Speaker 2>a stochastic process because the output vector gives you the

729
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:55.119
<v Speaker 2>probability distribution and samples according to that probably. Distribution so some,

730
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:57.480
<v Speaker 2>models depending on let's just say that use clawed in that,

731
00:37:57.519 --> 00:37:59.679
<v Speaker 2>one or they are going to do different things and

732
00:37:59.719 --> 00:38:02.840
<v Speaker 2>it all so the promptly makes a, difference and the

733
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.360
<v Speaker 2>tools that it has really makes a. Difference and that's

734
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.400
<v Speaker 2>where it sounds like an excuse to. Me it does

735
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:11.639
<v Speaker 2>and here's what they should have. Done just like we

736
00:38:11.719 --> 00:38:15.760
<v Speaker 2>have unit tests for, code we should have quote unit

737
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:19.800
<v Speaker 2>tests for. Agents and those things are called. Evaluations and

738
00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:23.000
<v Speaker 2>so An azree foundery we have a bunch of evaluations for,

739
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:27.199
<v Speaker 2>example is it follow the right? Task is it? Coherent

740
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:30.920
<v Speaker 2>is it? Relevant is it? Grounded we also have these

741
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:34.840
<v Speaker 2>other agents whose job is to attack our. Agents they're

742
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:37.239
<v Speaker 2>called the red teaming, agent and its job is to

743
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:40.159
<v Speaker 2>literally send garbage at it to see how it. Does

744
00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:43.239
<v Speaker 2>and so that is the unit. Test and the difference

745
00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:46.159
<v Speaker 2>between a unit tests and an evaluation is that an

746
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:49.840
<v Speaker 2>evaluation you need to give it enough examples to be

747
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:53.119
<v Speaker 2>satisfied that you're going to be. Okay it needs to

748
00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:57.199
<v Speaker 2>be probabilistically, relevant, Yes and then once you're okay with,

749
00:38:57.280 --> 00:38:59.840
<v Speaker 2>it when you put it in, production you monitor it

750
00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:02.679
<v Speaker 2>with the same evails and send alerts when it goes.

751
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Off the rails diverts because when you're looking, at for,

752
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:10.119
<v Speaker 2>example regulated, industries regular, industries like if you make a,

753
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:12.239
<v Speaker 2>mistake you got to report, It but they also want

754
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.360
<v Speaker 2>to know how do you fix these? Things and that's

755
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:17.280
<v Speaker 2>probably more, important and that's the part of regulated. Industries

756
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:19.360
<v Speaker 2>when you use this s uff you can see where

757
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:20.760
<v Speaker 2>it went wrong and you fix it and then you go.

758
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Back SO i think the real answer, is, hey we

759
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:26.320
<v Speaker 1>just launched this, shit give us some time.

760
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.719
<v Speaker 2>Time i'm not part of that. Team they mean they

761
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:29.840
<v Speaker 2>could have made it, better.

762
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:32.599
<v Speaker 1>Maybe BUT i mean it literally just came, out like you,

763
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:33.840
<v Speaker 1>know so and.

764
00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:36.639
<v Speaker 2>They'll learn a lot, because, like for, example the question

765
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:38.960
<v Speaker 2>you asked it maybe something they never. Anticipated that's, Right,

766
00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:41.920
<v Speaker 2>yes so there's Learn so there's some alert that probably

767
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:45.719
<v Speaker 2>fired during THE evls that's, saying, Oh carl did not

768
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:48.880
<v Speaker 2>get this thing that he, wanted and so they update

769
00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:50.800
<v Speaker 2>the prompt or a new tools AND i expect.

770
00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:54.760
<v Speaker 1>That. Yeah, so BUT i love the, idea and you,

771
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:57.719
<v Speaker 1>know talking To Scott hunter and some other, people the

772
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:01.000
<v Speaker 1>possibilities of things That i'm to do with it in

773
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:06.679
<v Speaker 1>the real world from my customers is going to blow their.

774
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:10.559
<v Speaker 2>Minds, Yes and in terms of like the stuff you can,

775
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:16.360
<v Speaker 2>do it's the ceiling is very high because the biggest

776
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:20.159
<v Speaker 2>barrier to programming isn't like the new algorithms or the

777
00:40:20.199 --> 00:40:23.760
<v Speaker 2>new it's like literally people using this stuff and having

778
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:26.840
<v Speaker 2>the like like someone Putting bob in the age. Field you,

779
00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:29.599
<v Speaker 2>know that's the kind of dumb stuff that we write

780
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:33.639
<v Speaker 2>most of our code. For right ll ms together in

781
00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:37.159
<v Speaker 2>an agentic, mode are going to soften that so that

782
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:39.480
<v Speaker 2>we don't have like why do we need a web form?

783
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:41.760
<v Speaker 2>ANYMORE i can do like my name Is seth and

784
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:43.559
<v Speaker 2>you can use my current location to find the.

785
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Address, now you're absolutely, right and YOU i is going to,

786
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:51.199
<v Speaker 1>change yeah from you. Know but but users are trained on,

787
00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:54.199
<v Speaker 1>forms aren't. They, yes you're going to have to train

788
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:58.800
<v Speaker 1>a user to all. Right so here's here's a. Nightmarebox nightmare.

789
00:40:58.840 --> 00:41:03.119
<v Speaker 1>Scenario a textbox to tell the application what you, want

790
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:05.599
<v Speaker 1>and somebody comes in and, says, hey you want A turkey.

791
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Club i'm going to The. Delhi, Yeah i'll have A turkey.

792
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Club and that's Writing turkey, club you know in the

793
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:13.880
<v Speaker 1>in the. Thing you know WHAT i mean, like there's there's.

794
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:15.960
<v Speaker 1>You now you have to train the users as to

795
00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:19.119
<v Speaker 1>what to say or what to, type and that's the.

796
00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:25.639
<v Speaker 2>Beauty. THOUGH i think given a properly built, agent that

797
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:28.840
<v Speaker 2>turkey sandwich is just gonna be noise to. It like

798
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:32.000
<v Speaker 2>it's gonna look for the things that will force the

799
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:36.639
<v Speaker 2>linear algebra and the calculus to produce the right next.

800
00:41:36.679 --> 00:41:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Time, yeah and then there's gotta be validation and. Verification

801
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:41.360
<v Speaker 1>did you really mean to say? This is this what

802
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:41.880
<v Speaker 1>you really?

803
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Want you? Know and ALSO i think the software is

804
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:46.800
<v Speaker 2>fairly good at recognizing a contact shift and SAYING i

805
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.039
<v Speaker 2>don't THINK i was supposed to listen to, that, yeah.

806
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:51.760
<v Speaker 1>Right and Also i'm assuming that you're speaking to it

807
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:53.840
<v Speaker 1>right when you really need to be, Typing like you

808
00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:56.400
<v Speaker 1>don't Want bob From engineering to pop his head in and,

809
00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:59.280
<v Speaker 1>say delete all records from, customers you, know.

810
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:04.039
<v Speaker 2>DUDE i saw AN mcp server that was attached to

811
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.400
<v Speaker 2>a file, system AND i was, like maybe let's not do. That,

812
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:08.480
<v Speaker 2>yeah it seems like about on mind's. IDEA i remember

813
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:12.039
<v Speaker 2>when the you, know the First amazon devices showed, up

814
00:42:12.039 --> 00:42:13.599
<v Speaker 2>and right away it was, like send my porn collection

815
00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:14.039
<v Speaker 2>to my mother.

816
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:18.719
<v Speaker 1>Joke oh my, gosh send one hundred pounds of cement

817
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:19.400
<v Speaker 1>To Richard.

818
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Campbell oh my, gosh so. Dumb but, yes BUT i

819
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:27.960
<v Speaker 2>think LIKE i, Think LIKE i said. It it was

820
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:32.239
<v Speaker 2>surprising to me how the the controller agent in this

821
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:37.400
<v Speaker 2>case was communicating with other. Agents, yes that. Was and

822
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:39.239
<v Speaker 2>then you, Know i'm not surprised by this stuff BECAUSE

823
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:41.159
<v Speaker 2>i know how it. Works, Right but that was the

824
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:43.679
<v Speaker 2>part that was, Like, okay maybe there's something. Here, well

825
00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:46.599
<v Speaker 2>and we get back to this whole like The battle

826
00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:49.679
<v Speaker 2>Of VISIBLE. Ai, yeah, right and we still haven't really

827
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:51.800
<v Speaker 2>fixed in there all that. Problem, no there's no way

828
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:54.760
<v Speaker 2>we can fix. That, well and that the Whole i've

829
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:57.400
<v Speaker 2>read the anthropic paper on the reasoning models and what's

830
00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.559
<v Speaker 2>actually going on. There it's calling itself right couple. Times,

831
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:03.000
<v Speaker 2>well first it gets the, results and then it peaks

832
00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:04.800
<v Speaker 2>pieces of the results and feeds it back into it

833
00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:07.039
<v Speaker 2>to say why WOULD i have said? This so it

834
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:10.119
<v Speaker 2>literally is in reverse. Reasoning i've already decided what the answer,

835
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:11.639
<v Speaker 2>is but let me break it down into pieces so

836
00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:13.360
<v Speaker 2>it looks Like i'm thinking about. It, yeah that doesn't

837
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:14.960
<v Speaker 2>seem to be a good way to do, it but

838
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.360
<v Speaker 2>it makes people, happy, Right, well it doesn't make me,

839
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:19.840
<v Speaker 2>happy well until you know what's going. On and it's

840
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:20.480
<v Speaker 2>LIKE i just.

841
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:24.599
<v Speaker 1>Read something in the news today that said THE ceo

842
00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:27.239
<v Speaker 1>Of anthropic admitted that he has no idea how this

843
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:28.719
<v Speaker 1>stuff for but.

844
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:32.840
<v Speaker 2>You, know maybe like in his, defense like there's certain

845
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:35.280
<v Speaker 2>things that CEOs do THAT i just don't want to

846
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:37.360
<v Speaker 2>know how to. Do, yeah you know What i'm, Saying

847
00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:40.039
<v Speaker 2>like there's only there's only so MANY i don't know

848
00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:41.840
<v Speaker 2>if this is, true but there's only so much space

849
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:44.199
<v Speaker 2>in my brain for things, nice, Right and it's LIKE

850
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:46.800
<v Speaker 2>i have, seen like BECAUSE i work with a lot

851
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:50.039
<v Speaker 2>of our EVPs and CEOs and and all that, stuff

852
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:52.800
<v Speaker 2>and like And i've worked And i've talked to CEOs

853
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:57.000
<v Speaker 2>and cvps and it's just like MAYBE i don't want

854
00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:59.360
<v Speaker 2>to do. That, Yeah and and the fact that he

855
00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:04.320
<v Speaker 2>doesn't know exactly how it works is, okay focus on

856
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:06.280
<v Speaker 2>the right. Things. Yeah and the other thing that for,

857
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:10.039
<v Speaker 2>me LIKE i mathematically know how these things, work BUT

858
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:12.639
<v Speaker 2>i don't expect other people to just to. Me it's

859
00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:15.320
<v Speaker 2>just LIKE i love looking at like the beauty of

860
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:19.320
<v Speaker 2>the mathematical structure of these things and trying to think

861
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:21.840
<v Speaker 2>about why does this actually?

862
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Work but you know, WHAT i feel better knowing that

863
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:25.800
<v Speaker 1>as long AS sef.

864
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:31.519
<v Speaker 2>Knows BUT i think this idea that that neural net

865
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:37.679
<v Speaker 2>is is essentially creating a jpeg of, language lossy compression

866
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:41.159
<v Speaker 2>of language one hundred. Percent that is exactly. Right but

867
00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:42.760
<v Speaker 2>when we, say and the whole thing, is don't put

868
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:45.239
<v Speaker 2>any too many pictures in, It, yeah you're just gonna

869
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:47.760
<v Speaker 2>get a GREAT FUZD i. Know and then but but,

870
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:50.880
<v Speaker 2>then but, then because these things are really good at,

871
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:54.800
<v Speaker 2>sequences think of it as any. Sequence so we have

872
00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:58.280
<v Speaker 2>models And andrea found with that do protein. Sequencing, yeah,

873
00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:01.519
<v Speaker 2>well deep. Fault and if you think about, it you're, like,

874
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:04.280
<v Speaker 2>well how could that? Work, well because again you're giving

875
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:06.599
<v Speaker 2>it a sequence of, things and it's telling you the

876
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:09.239
<v Speaker 2>next likely. Thing and then it's doing it in a

877
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:14.719
<v Speaker 2>loop right while not end of line token or end

878
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:17.800
<v Speaker 2>of thing. Token, right that's what it's doing and get

879
00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:20.199
<v Speaker 2>next probable. Words. Yeah and the thing about it is

880
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:22.679
<v Speaker 2>people will talk about the, temperature whether it makes it

881
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:27.079
<v Speaker 2>more creative or. Whatever it's not making it more. Creative

882
00:45:27.320 --> 00:45:31.880
<v Speaker 2>it's basically squashing the output distribution so other things are more.

883
00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:34.199
<v Speaker 2>Likely and that's all it's. Doing and SO i hear

884
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.519
<v Speaker 2>it's making it more. Creative, no it's. Not it's changing

885
00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:39.159
<v Speaker 2>the hand of the output. Distribution it'll make it, faster

886
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:42.639
<v Speaker 2>but you'll get. Crap it's not even. Faster it's exactly

887
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:46.239
<v Speaker 2>the same. Speed it's just the probability distribution is warped

888
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:48.719
<v Speaker 2>so that if, like for, sure it's this, one if

889
00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:50.760
<v Speaker 2>temper is, one it's like the probably is what it

890
00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:52.800
<v Speaker 2>it'll pick the, right it'll. Almost but if it's, different

891
00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:55.960
<v Speaker 2>there's other things that become more equally. Likely and so

892
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:59.719
<v Speaker 2>it's chain of like this, token now this token it

893
00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:02.559
<v Speaker 2>Becomes they say it's more, creative AND i hate. That

894
00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:07.719
<v Speaker 2>why DO i hate? That? Richard it's more, exactly it's

895
00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:09.559
<v Speaker 2>literally just changing the output.

896
00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Distigue but, okay So joe, programmer, though do you think

897
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:15.920
<v Speaker 1>they need to answer pomorphize this stuff in order to

898
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:18.400
<v Speaker 1>talk about it or think about it in a in

899
00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:21.920
<v Speaker 1>a way that they can use it correctly because everybody

900
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:24.000
<v Speaker 1>falls into this. TRAP i mean we're, Humans.

901
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah like humans are funny. Creatures we will we will

902
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:29.880
<v Speaker 2>pick up a rock and draw a smiley face on,

903
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:35.880
<v Speaker 2>it and so. Happy it's such a happy. Rock it

904
00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:38.760
<v Speaker 2>must have had a really good Dayne and now. Imagine

905
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:41.639
<v Speaker 2>but isn't THIS i WANT i have to think this

906
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:44.639
<v Speaker 2>is what makes humans? Humans first, off paradolia is a survival.

907
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Strategy the tendency to see, faces whether they're there or,

908
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:50.639
<v Speaker 2>not means you were the first one to, run and

909
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:53.480
<v Speaker 2>so the tiger probably didn't get. You so that's an evolved.

910
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Trait absolutely, right it's. Paradolia but what if this whole

911
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:03.599
<v Speaker 2>practice event memorphizing is the mechanism that led to us

912
00:47:03.639 --> 00:47:07.039
<v Speaker 2>being able to, strategize like how you have to think

913
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:10.239
<v Speaker 2>like the animal to hunt the animal successfully with your limited.

914
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:14.559
<v Speaker 2>RESOURCE i, See and so that tendency again becomes a competitive.

915
00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:17.199
<v Speaker 2>Strategy you're more likely to survive because your hunting is.

916
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:20.639
<v Speaker 1>Morphout not to mention, mythology, right, well in, mythos in

917
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:23.920
<v Speaker 1>religion and all of these, things it's all about. Anthropomorphizing,

918
00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:24.880
<v Speaker 1>sure and not just.

919
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:27.519
<v Speaker 2>Why is the sky making loud noises?

920
00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Shaming right As thor is sending lightning, thing that's because

921
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:31.760
<v Speaker 1>he's angry with.

922
00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:33.880
<v Speaker 2>US i feel like we got to go the final

923
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:37.639
<v Speaker 2>mile and somehow get into The roman spears because we

924
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:41.719
<v Speaker 2>all think About roman, period, RIGHT i don't, Know but,

925
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:45.440
<v Speaker 2>well actually that project the name for the project that

926
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:49.639
<v Speaker 2>you Saw amanda And elijah Do we called it, sustinnao

927
00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:53.199
<v Speaker 2>which Is latin for, SUPPORT i support, nice, Okay and

928
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:55.440
<v Speaker 2>SO i told him that and let's lie it for.

929
00:47:55.519 --> 00:48:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Sales way to close the loop that was that was.

930
00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Amazing this is a quality. Show my job as co

931
00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:12.920
<v Speaker 2>host Of. Professionals the joke that's but, Yeah so again the,

932
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:16.559
<v Speaker 2>key the key insight is think of these things as

933
00:48:16.599 --> 00:48:19.360
<v Speaker 2>things that take. Language and if you have a prompt

934
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:22.039
<v Speaker 2>that's narrow enough and a collection of tools that support the,

935
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:26.920
<v Speaker 2>task it will tell you what consistent. Results, yeah, yeah

936
00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:30.960
<v Speaker 2>That's these are the dimensions of a tool set for

937
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:33.800
<v Speaker 2>a group of programmers to be successful with correct they

938
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:35.719
<v Speaker 2>just had to learn the dimensions of. It and the

939
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:38.320
<v Speaker 2>joke THAT i, said is it like a switch statement

940
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:41.199
<v Speaker 2>and if statement but. Huge So i'm going to try

941
00:48:41.199 --> 00:48:43.639
<v Speaker 2>to make it a thing and call it the giant swift.

942
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:49.239
<v Speaker 2>Statement it's the swift for those that are. Swifties swift all.

943
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:58.760
<v Speaker 1>RIGHT i figured out The latin for sales is.

944
00:48:55.400 --> 00:49:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Isn't That italian full Of? Chicago oh my, gosh that's.

945
00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Hilarious but, yeah and so that that inside couple with

946
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:07.480
<v Speaker 2>the ability to evaluate them as unit with the unit

947
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:12.280
<v Speaker 2>with the agentic. Unit tests should bring this all back

948
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:15.480
<v Speaker 2>to quality instead of the schlop that people put. Out

949
00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:17.719
<v Speaker 2>sure they, are and THAT'S i mean the battle here

950
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:20.639
<v Speaker 2>is how do you measure? Quality, oh there's a way

951
00:49:20.679 --> 00:49:23.679
<v Speaker 2>to measure? It, yeah BECAUSE i keep being told this

952
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:25.760
<v Speaker 2>THIS lm is better than THAT llm is, like how

953
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:28.559
<v Speaker 2>how would you measure? That what makes that? True so

954
00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:30.559
<v Speaker 2>what they do is they give it a bunch of,

955
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:33.239
<v Speaker 2>stuff like, like they feed it stuff and then they.

956
00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Measure i'll give you there's a couple of. Emails so

957
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:37.760
<v Speaker 2>there's something Like blue And, rouge which is like how

958
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:39.639
<v Speaker 2>close is it to the right? Answer? Right those are

959
00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:42.480
<v Speaker 2>supervised tests where you're, like you give it a thing

960
00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:44.519
<v Speaker 2>and you're, like here's the OUTPUT i wanted to. Have

961
00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:45.519
<v Speaker 2>we've talked about this.

962
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Before, Yeah blue And rouges is like those like supervised

963
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:50.280
<v Speaker 1>and supervised.

964
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:52.679
<v Speaker 2>Tests. Right but then there's one supervised tests and you're, like,

965
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:54.400
<v Speaker 2>well how do those? Work, Well i'll give you an.

966
00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:57.760
<v Speaker 2>Example there's a there's a judge BASED evl called, groundedness

967
00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:01.079
<v Speaker 2>and what groundedness. Measures it measures how rounded a response

968
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:04.199
<v Speaker 2>from AN lm is in the facts and context that

969
00:50:04.280 --> 00:50:07.000
<v Speaker 2>you gave. It, Yeah and so for, example the three

970
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:09.639
<v Speaker 2>pairing that you give it for the unit test is sas,

971
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:12.960
<v Speaker 2>asked how much does your you, know outdoor tent? Cost

972
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.280
<v Speaker 2>the context is we give it all of like the tent,

973
00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:19.400
<v Speaker 2>information and the cost is in, there, right it's just

974
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:21.159
<v Speaker 2>like the slop of it and the outputs like the

975
00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:25.920
<v Speaker 2>tent is ten. Dollars. Right so given given that a judge.

976
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Base before the, tariffs now there are a lot, more.

977
00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:29.760
<v Speaker 2>That's, Right and now they're gonna be a lot. More

978
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:34.599
<v Speaker 2>but that particular three two, pole it's not, twopole but

979
00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:39.599
<v Speaker 2>the three pole three. Yeah of the, question the context

980
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:42.719
<v Speaker 2>and the. Answer, yeah it's given to a judge to

981
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:45.079
<v Speaker 2>judge on a scale of one to. Five how grounded is?

982
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:48.920
<v Speaker 2>It and that judge is also AN Lllm, yeah okay

983
00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:52.239
<v Speaker 2>another one, yeah and it. Works and that's why that's

984
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:55.119
<v Speaker 2>the whole idea of, Agency, yeah is that you have

985
00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:59.519
<v Speaker 2>agents that are specialized in their different, things just like

986
00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:01.679
<v Speaker 2>you have you on your. Staff there special that's. Right

987
00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:05.760
<v Speaker 2>the people of my staff Question, mark it's just, me all, Right.

988
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:09.199
<v Speaker 1>But Joe developer who's listening is, thinking, oh this is.

989
00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:11.760
<v Speaker 1>Great you, know after listening to these shows for the,

990
00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:14.480
<v Speaker 1>last you, know the week that we've been doing, These

991
00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:17.400
<v Speaker 1>i'm thinking now that you, Know i'm going to get

992
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:19.480
<v Speaker 1>rid Of bob and engineering And i'm going to replace no,

993
00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:24.079
<v Speaker 1>agent And i'm going to set up this little staff

994
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:27.559
<v Speaker 1>of programmers under. Me agent programmers are going to help

995
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:28.000
<v Speaker 1>me do my.

996
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:30.559
<v Speaker 2>JOB i don't think that's ever going to. Happen WHAT

997
00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:32.880
<v Speaker 2>i think is going to happen AS i already. HAPPENED

998
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:35.360
<v Speaker 2>i think we're going to solve. WELL i mean those

999
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:37.119
<v Speaker 2>that think are they're going to solve it that way

1000
00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:40.239
<v Speaker 2>are going to come in Like i've seen vibe coders

1001
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:42.519
<v Speaker 2>like put out stuff and be, like oh why is

1002
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:44.599
<v Speaker 2>MY aws bill so high.

1003
00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:49.400
<v Speaker 1>About vibe Coders and There's we've been arguing about whether

1004
00:51:49.400 --> 00:51:52.039
<v Speaker 1>that's pejorative or, not because the ryan it's.

1005
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Not, okay is it a pejorative?

1006
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:57.559
<v Speaker 1>Thing some people see, it some people see it, Goodness,

1007
00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:01.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah But i'm talking about a professional co that maybe

1008
00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:05.400
<v Speaker 1>works by themselves and hires out other specialists to do

1009
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:07.639
<v Speaker 1>that kind of. Stuff, interesting and NOW i can maybe

1010
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:09.639
<v Speaker 1>spin off some agents to help me with that kind

1011
00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:11.599
<v Speaker 1>of stuff AND i not depend on them as.

1012
00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:14.800
<v Speaker 2>MUCH i think that the agents are going to be

1013
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:18.400
<v Speaker 2>able to do with a low powered brain work that

1014
00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:27.000
<v Speaker 2>we as humans do and and but the actual creative

1015
00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:32.480
<v Speaker 2>move forward and always human right and not and not

1016
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:34.639
<v Speaker 2>be stuck in the drudgery of. That so you actually

1017
00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:37.840
<v Speaker 2>have more creative energy to do more experimentation. Exactly because

1018
00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:38.480
<v Speaker 2>then that's.

1019
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:41.559
<v Speaker 1>Why imagination is going to be the number one uh

1020
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:45.000
<v Speaker 1>feature of the Rock star. Developers, oh there you, go

1021
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:46.880
<v Speaker 1>there you. Go that's WHY i Think i've never been

1022
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:49.559
<v Speaker 1>a rock star. Though, dude you are the more like

1023
00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:54.159
<v Speaker 1>a flute, player saying like You're Eddie eddie Van halen

1024
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:57.880
<v Speaker 1>jazz PLAYER ai At Microsoft Cool.

1025
00:52:57.880 --> 00:53:02.119
<v Speaker 2>Beings well look, again AND i just want to emphasize

1026
00:53:02.599 --> 00:53:05.239
<v Speaker 2>this is all accessible to. Everybody you can start playing

1027
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:08.159
<v Speaker 2>with it. Today make it do a raw function call

1028
00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:10.559
<v Speaker 2>and see the output so you can see that What

1029
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:12.960
<v Speaker 2>i'm saying is. True don't have it do the function,

1030
00:53:13.039 --> 00:53:15.800
<v Speaker 2>call just call it and tell it to do. Return

1031
00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:18.480
<v Speaker 2>do a tool call and you'll see it literally Returns.

1032
00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:23.599
<v Speaker 2>Jason that, says run this function with these, parameters.

1033
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:25.760
<v Speaker 1>And be as careful with your prompts with your agents

1034
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:28.079
<v Speaker 1>as you are with your ten year old when they

1035
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:30.679
<v Speaker 1>tell them to go to the store and get used xy.

1036
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Eggs or your programmer.

1037
00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:36.679
<v Speaker 1>Husband, yes that's, right that's you, know the one about the.

1038
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:39.559
<v Speaker 1>Programmer your husband and the wife, said go to the

1039
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:42.039
<v Speaker 1>store and get a gallon of. Milk if they have,

1040
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:44.519
<v Speaker 1>eggs get a. Dozen he came back with a dozen.

1041
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:46.079
<v Speaker 1>Gas they had.

1042
00:53:46.119 --> 00:53:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Eggs they had. Eggs but that's just how we have

1043
00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:52.039
<v Speaker 2>the whole world turned into paper. Clips but if you

1044
00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:54.519
<v Speaker 2>need to be, precise but if you think about, it

1045
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:57.119
<v Speaker 2>that's exactly how you should think about these. Things that's.

1046
00:53:57.199 --> 00:53:59.360
<v Speaker 2>Right you have to be very because you want to.

1047
00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:03.079
<v Speaker 2>Listen you want to maximize the probability of it returning

1048
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:05.320
<v Speaker 2>the right tokens based upon the ones you gave.

1049
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:08.079
<v Speaker 1>It so we're all in for a new world of

1050
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:14.119
<v Speaker 1>discovery and refinement of search and refinement of. Prompts, yeah

1051
00:54:14.199 --> 00:54:15.280
<v Speaker 1>and the whole new.

1052
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:17.679
<v Speaker 2>World and if you go about retrieval augmented, generation it's

1053
00:54:17.719 --> 00:54:21.440
<v Speaker 2>literally the process of you get a, question you programmatically

1054
00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:24.039
<v Speaker 2>search for an, answer you put it into the, prompt

1055
00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:27.039
<v Speaker 2>and then you get the. Answer that's. It, yeah that's

1056
00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:28.639
<v Speaker 2>all it. Is that's How, yeah we just gave it

1057
00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:30.800
<v Speaker 2>a fancy. Name, Yeah WELL i don't like the TERM.

1058
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:35.519
<v Speaker 2>Rag it sounds it sounds kind Of but, YEAH i

1059
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:38.400
<v Speaker 2>do a demo WHERE i do augmented, generation WHERE i

1060
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:41.800
<v Speaker 2>literally go and copy From, wikipedia BUT i think the

1061
00:54:41.840 --> 00:54:43.679
<v Speaker 2>right answer is put it in AND i show it

1062
00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:45.480
<v Speaker 2>AND i was, like how does it know the right? Answer

1063
00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:47.039
<v Speaker 2>and it was, like, well because you put it. In,

1064
00:54:47.239 --> 00:54:50.880
<v Speaker 2>okay now you understand what augmented generation. Is the only

1065
00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:54.760
<v Speaker 2>process of retrieval was artisanal in my case BECAUSE i

1066
00:54:54.800 --> 00:54:59.880
<v Speaker 2>went and did. It it was. Artisanal, yeah it's like

1067
00:54:59.880 --> 00:55:03.800
<v Speaker 2>a fine, cheese, Right but we's That and then if

1068
00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:06.280
<v Speaker 2>you think about we're too. Generation by putting the right

1069
00:55:06.280 --> 00:55:10.199
<v Speaker 2>context in and then coupled with tool, calling now you

1070
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:14.000
<v Speaker 2>have a powerful. Combo and that's WHERE i, think if

1071
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:15.559
<v Speaker 2>you think about it like, this you're really going to

1072
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:19.079
<v Speaker 2>change the way things. Happen sure, WELL i also love

1073
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:24.880
<v Speaker 2>how much you dilute the pretense of all this. Technology,

1074
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:27.719
<v Speaker 2>OH i know it's the. PRETENSE i said that in

1075
00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:30.079
<v Speaker 2>a very pretentious. WAY i. Know it's kind of.

1076
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Amazing, actually, yeah.

1077
00:55:33.320 --> 00:55:38.119
<v Speaker 2>It was like a two fur three For, yeah there you.

1078
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:46.360
<v Speaker 2>Go but like That, latin but it's a plural of. Slezolo.

1079
00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:49.119
<v Speaker 2>Right but if you think about, it this has been

1080
00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:52.360
<v Speaker 2>What i've been doing for the last twenty. Years, Sure,

1081
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:54.960
<v Speaker 2>yes that's. True i've been trying to make this stuff

1082
00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:58.239
<v Speaker 2>lose all of its pretentiousness and when you, do it

1083
00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:02.360
<v Speaker 2>empowers you to do really. Things absolutely. Sure does the

1084
00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:04.280
<v Speaker 2>tools only get? Better that's, Right Brave New.

1085
00:56:04.280 --> 00:56:06.800
<v Speaker 1>World and that's the last word from. BUILD i, Suppose

1086
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:10.079
<v Speaker 1>WE'RE i, Love we're. Done it's TIME uh to hit the.

1087
00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Road thank you for. Listening thank, You.

1088
00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Seth it's always a, pleasure always a.

1089
00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:17.159
<v Speaker 1>Pleasure and we'll talk to you next time on dot net.

1090
00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:41.360
<v Speaker 1>Rocks dot Net rocks is brought to you By Franklin's

1091
00:56:41.400 --> 00:56:45.440
<v Speaker 1>net and produced By Pop, studios a full service, audio

1092
00:56:45.559 --> 00:56:49.320
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1093
00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:54.239
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1094
00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:57.159
<v Speaker 1>Com visit our website at D O T N E

1095
00:56:57.239 --> 00:56:59.760
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1096
00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:04.159
<v Speaker 1>S s, feeds, downloads mobile, apps, comments and access to

1097
00:57:04.199 --> 00:57:07.599
<v Speaker 1>the full archives going back to show number, one recorded

1098
00:57:07.639 --> 00:57:10.400
<v Speaker 1>In september two thousand and. Two and make sure you

1099
00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:13.559
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1100
00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:17.079
<v Speaker 1>go write some, code see you next. Time you Got

1101
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Jent Middle vans