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Speaker 1: What if I told you there's this uh potato shaped

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moon zipping around Mars, right, Phobos? Yeah, Phobos? And what

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if some people thought it might actually be hollow, hollow

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like engineers, maybe sparking theories about aliens. And then there's

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this whole mystery with a Soviet probe that just went silent.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that definitely sounds intriguing.

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Speaker 1: You bet So today we're doing a deep dive into Phobos,

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all the weirdness, the theories that failed mission, and.

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Speaker 2: The strange things people claimed to see on it and

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on Mars itself exactly.

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Speaker 1: We're going to unpack this whole strange case, try and

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figure out what makes this little moon so well fascinating.

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Speaker 2: It definitely is fascinating. I mean, Phobos really plenches above

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its weight, mystery wise.

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Speaker 1: Totally, especially when you compare it to our moon.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, okac the difference is huge. Our Moon's about

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what two thousand miles wide, pretty substantial, and.

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Speaker 1: It keeps a respectable distance, you know.

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Speaker 2: Right about two hundred thousand miles out. But Phobos it's tiny,

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only like fourteen miles across.

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Speaker 1: It's fourteen that's smaller than a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of cities seriously, and it orbits Mars incredibly close, just

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five thousand miles away.

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Speaker 1: Whoa, that's practically skimming the surface, closer than Denver to

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New York.

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Speaker 2: He said, pretty much. So that really close, really fast orbit.

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That's the first big clue that something's different about Phobos.

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It challenges the usual ideas about how Moon's form.

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Speaker 1: It's like this hyperactive little gnat buzzing around Mars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good analogy.

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Speaker 1: And it doesn't look serene like our moon either. It's

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all lumpy, scarred, no air.

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Speaker 2: The giant potato description really fits.

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Speaker 1: So for ages. Everyone just figured it was a captured asteroid,

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right along with Damos. It's a little sibling.

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Speaker 2: That was the standard theory. Yeah, it's rocky, looks like

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an asteroid.

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Speaker 1: Seemed simple enough, but that weird orbit kept nagging at

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people exactly.

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Speaker 2: It made some scientists, especially over at JXA, the Japanese

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Space Agency, think again. Okay, they proposed something different. Maybe

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Phobos wasn't captured. Maybe maybe it formed from debris after

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a huge impact on Mars itself.

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Speaker 1: Wow, like our moon supposedly did with her.

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Speaker 2: Precisely that theory, a massive collision early on could have

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blasted Martian rock into orbit, eventually clumping together to form

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Phobos and Demos.

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Speaker 1: That's a much more traumatic origin story, it is, and it.

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Speaker 2: Gets even more interesting because you know, we're finding hints

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that Mars might have had water, maybe even life way.

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Speaker 1: Back when, right the building blocks, maybe even Dormitt microbes.

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Speaker 2: So the idea is those huge impacts that might have

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formed Phobos, they could have also blasted Martian surface material rocks, dust,

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maybe even fossils or DNA traces out into space.

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Speaker 1: And some of that stuff landed on Phobos.

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Speaker 2: That's the hypothesis, making Phobos a potential time capsule, a.

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Speaker 1: Time capsule of ancient Mars holding secrets of life potentially.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. One JXA scientist basically said if life was ever

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common on Mars, finding evidence on Phobos is actually pretty

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likely because of this transfer.

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Speaker 1: So this little potato moon could be like the Rosetta

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Stone for Martian life.

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Speaker 2: That's the hope and why it's such a hot target

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for exploration. It could be one of the best places

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in the Solar System to look for signs of past

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life besides Mars itself.

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Speaker 1: Crazy, but the weirdness doesn't stop there, does it. Something

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about its orbit Back in the sixties.

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Speaker 2: Uh right, Soviet astronomers noticed something really odd. Phobos orbits

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Mars faster than Mars rotates faster.

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Speaker 1: How does that work?

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Speaker 2: It means it's moving very quickly for something its size,

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suggesting it's less massive, less dense than you'd expect.

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Speaker 1: For a solid rock, lighter than it looks.

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Speaker 2: Which led to a pretty radical idea back there, don't.

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Speaker 1: Tell me the hol of thing again.

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Speaker 2: Yep. That observation fueled the hypothesis championed by guys like

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Russian astrophysicist Josef Schklovsky and even Carl Sagan considered it.

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Speaker 1: Sagan too, Wow.

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Speaker 2: They suggested, well, maybe the only way to explain that

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speedy orbit was if Phobos wasn't solid rock all the

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way through, maybe it was hollow, hollow.

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Speaker 1: Like a giant empty space.

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Speaker 2: Rock, or even more out there. Schlovsky speculated it might

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have a thin, maybe even metallic outer shell.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now that definitely sounds artificial on engineered moon.

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Speaker 2: That was the implication. Yeah, highly controversial, of course, but

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it came from trying to explain the orbital data they had.

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Speaker 1: Was anyone else buying this?

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Speaker 2: Doctor Fred Singer, who advised President Eisenhower on science actually

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supported the hollow idea. Really, He looked at observations suggesting

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Phobos was slowly spiraling inward towards Mars. He argued that

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if that was true, being hollow and therefore less dense

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was the best fit for why it was decaying like that.

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Speaker 1: So its orbit is weirdly fast and it might be

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slowly falling.

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Speaker 2: Seemed that way based on the data. Then even NASA

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much later described its insides in kind of odd terms.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what did they say?

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Speaker 2: Something like a rubble pile barely holding together, but with

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a mildly cohesive outer fabric.

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Speaker 1: Huh, outer fabric. That does sound a bit like Schklovsky's

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shell idea.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't it. It does echo it a bit. Yeah, less

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alien engineered, more like loosely packed gravel with maybe a crust,

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still not solid rock.

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Speaker 1: So naturally people wanted a closer look, the Soviets especially absolutely.

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Speaker 2: This was peak Space race era and Phobos was this

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big Martian mystery. So in July nineteen eighty eight they

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launched two probes, Phobos I and Phobos.

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Speaker 1: Two ambitious what were they supposed to do?

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Speaker 2: Study Mars? Study Phobos get detailed pictures, analyze the composition,

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the works. And it wasn't just the Soviets. It was

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a big international project.

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Speaker 1: How many countries.

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Speaker 2: Fourteen nations involved, including the US. Everyone wanted answers about Phobos.

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Speaker 1: But it didn't go smoothly from the start, did it?

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Phobos won?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Phobos one was lost pretty early on. The official

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story is a command error, basically a typo sent from

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ground control.

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Speaker 1: OUCH one run command at boom mission over space is unforgiving.

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Speaker 2: But Phobos two seemed okay.

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Speaker 1: Initially got to Mars, started sending data.

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Speaker 2: YEP operated for several months, gathered good stuff on Mars.

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But then March eighth, nineteen eighty nine, it was getting

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ready for its closest pass by Phobos, and things went wrong.

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Suddenly the signals got weak and the probe started spinning,

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tumbling out of control for no reason exactly. Things in

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space don't just start spinning unless something acts on them.

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Controllers were baffled. They tried everything to get it back. Yeah, nothing,

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it's at one last picture and then silence.

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Speaker 1: Dick, Wow, what was the official clause?

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Speaker 2: Computer malfunction? That was the official line.

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Speaker 1: But you mentioned a last picture.

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Speaker 2: Ah, yes, that last transmission. That's where things get really

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really weird, and the whole UFO angle comes in.

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Speaker 1: Okay, lay it on me. What did it show?

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Speaker 2: The final image seems to show Phobos, but there's this

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long elliptical shadow on its surface, and maybe hovering above it,

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this huge oval shaped object, an object.

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Speaker 1: Like a ship, and a shadow that doesn't match Phobos itself.

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Speaker 2: The shadow's shape was hard to explain based on Phobos's

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known features, and the object well, that was even harder

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to explain.

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Speaker 1: So instant speculation, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, camera glitch and internal reflection or something else,

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something physical near Phobos.

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Speaker 1: Oh and the Soviets didn't release the.

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Speaker 2: Photos right away, No, they kept most of the photos

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two photos classified initially, which, given the international partner or

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some bet definitely Eventually, under pressure they released most of them,

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but the last few frames, including that image, stayed secret

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for a while.

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Speaker 1: Longer until someone leaked them, well.

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Speaker 2: Not exactly leaked. In nineteen ninety one, a Soviet test pilot,

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Marina Popovich revealed one of the classified shots.

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Speaker 1: And what did that one show?

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Speaker 2: Apparently a very long elliptical or cigar shaped object near Phobos.

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Estimates put it at maybe fifteen miles long.

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Speaker 1: Fifteen miles that's enormous, bigger than photos itself.

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Speaker 2: Huge, And supposedly these were infrared images.

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Speaker 1: Infrared so detecting heat right, which.

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Speaker 2: Is important because a simple shadow wouldn't show up on infrared.

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It suggests the object, whatever it was, was physically there

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and maybe emitting heat.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that is intriguing. Did Papavinch say what she thought

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it was?

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Speaker 2: She was known to be interested in UFOs, so that

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fueled speculation that maybe this thing, this object, was why

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Phobos too malfunctioned. Maybe it interfered somehow.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So a possible UFO encounter near Mars. But the

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weirdness wasn't just Phobos too right, other anomaly.

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Speaker 2: Correct Phobos who also supposedly snapped a picture of Mars itself,

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showing what looked like well.

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Speaker 1: Ruined ruins, like a city.

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Speaker 2: Some descriptions mentioned rectangular shapes gridlines reminiscent of ancient city ruins.

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Speaker 1: Which ties into that older Mars mystery.

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Speaker 2: The face exactly the face on Mars and Sidonia seen

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by Viking one in seventy six that kicked off decades

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of speculation about Martians, civilizations, alien.

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Speaker 1: Markers, mostly explained as peridolia. Now right, seeing faces in rocks, that's.

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Speaker 2: The mainstream view. Yeah, our brains love finding patterns, but

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for some the clarity, especially in the early images, was

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just too much to ignore. And Sidonia has other weird

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stuff too, like what things people call pyramids, obelisks, geometric

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shapes that look well unnatural to some observers.

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Speaker 1: Pyramids on Mars like actual pyramids.

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Speaker 2: There's one called the Elysium pyramid, a huge four sided

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thing nearly a mile high, very regular shape apparently.

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Speaker 1: A mile high. Wow.

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Speaker 2: And tunnels too, Yeah, these features that get described as

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tubes or glass tunnels seeming to connect across the surface,

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leading to ideas of underground CITIESCI. Okay, so strange stuff

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on Mars. What about back on Phobos itself? Besides being

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maybe hollow and having that giant crater.

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Speaker 1: Right Stickney crater. But they're also those grooves.

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Speaker 2: The grooves, Yeah, tell me about those.

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Speaker 1: There are deep parallel lines running across the surface, pretty

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uniform with uniform.

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Speaker 2: Depth, not just random cracks.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't look like it. They're often brighter than the surrounding

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area too, which is odd, and missions have shown new

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ones seem to appear over time, so the surface is changing.

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That's weird for a tiny man and Stickney crater. People

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think that's an entrance.

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Speaker 2: For those who like the hallow moon idea. Yeah, a

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six mile maybe it leads inside pure speculation, but it

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fires the imagination.

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Speaker 1: And near that crater, the monolith.

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Speaker 2: The Phobos monolith stands out like a sore thumb, about

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three hundred feet tall, maybe two hundred and.

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Speaker 1: Eighty feet wide, and it looks artificial.

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Speaker 2: Very bright, very rectangular, not what you typically expect from

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random geology, sharp angles, defined edges. It's intriguing.

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Speaker 1: Didn't buzz Aldrin come in on it?

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Speaker 2: He did, called it a very unusual structure on that

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little potato shaped object and basically asked, you know, how

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did you get there?

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Speaker 1: When an Apollo astronaut says something's unusual in space.

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Speaker 2: You pay attention, right, So theories fly. Martian artifact marker

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shared tech.

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Speaker 1: Between worlds, and people connect it to structures on Earth

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like the pyramids and obelisks in Egypt.

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Speaker 2: That connection gets made. Yeah, especially with the Sidonius stuff

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on Mars looking vaguely Egyptian. To some it leads down

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some interesting.

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Speaker 1: Rabbit holes, like the idea the Great Pyramid was a

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power plant.

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Speaker 2: That's a fringe theory, but it persists. People point to

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certain feet Nikola Tesla's experiments with wireless power and.

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Speaker 1: Link it to the electric universe idea.

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Speaker 2: Right, the theory that electricity, not gravity, is the main

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force in the cosmos. Proponents suggest pyramids obelisks worldwide and

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maybe on Mars and Phobos were built to tap into

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some kind of cosmic.

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Speaker 1: Energy field, zero point energy.

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Speaker 2: That's the term often used, like these structures were giant

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antennas pulling energy from space.

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Speaker 1: So Martian pyramids, the Phobos monolith. Maybe they were power

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stations back when Mars had an atmosphere and water.

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Speaker 2: That's the speculation. Within that framework, maybe losing its atmosphere

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somehow short circuited and energy connection between Mars and Earth.

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It gets pretty wild.

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Speaker 1: Very grand cosmic stuff. Are people actually researching zero point energy?

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Speaker 2: Some are, though it's way outside the mainstream, and you

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hear stories, probably conspiracy theories, mostly about patents being suppressed,

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that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's a lot to take in, but let's pull

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back a bit. What about the debunking the more conventional explanation, right.

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Speaker 2: Because they're usually are more grounded explanations for Phobos two.

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Speaker 1: For instance, Yeah, what's the counter argument?

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Speaker 2: Well Reports suggests the probe was already having problems before

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it got to Mars, including that spinning issue, so the

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final failure might not have been sudden or external. And

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the data it sent back was messy because it was tumbling.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, so the UFO images might just be corrupted data.

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Speaker 2: That's the likely explanation for the cigar shaped object. It

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seems to be an artifact in the infrared camera system,

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only it's not in the regular camera images taken at

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the same time.

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Speaker 1: So just a glitch, not an alien ship. What about

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Marina Popovich, the pilot who showed the photo?

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Speaker 2: Okay, she was an incredible test pilot, but not actually

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a cosmonaut who'd been to space, and she was a

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known UFO enthusiast. Apparently she actually had permission to share

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those photos later on, So maybe less whistleblower, more authorized release.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha and buzz Aldrin's comment on the mamolef.

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Speaker 2: Often cut short. The full quote includes him saying, maybe

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the universe put it there, or God put it there,

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leaving room for natural origins.

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Speaker 1: Right, not necessarily aliens. What about that weird shadow in

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the last Phobos two image.

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Speaker 2: Newer, cleaner images show that the shadow shape actually matches

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the lumpy, irregular shape of Phobos itself pretty well.

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Speaker 1: So it was just Phobos's own shadow, maybe distorted in

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the old image.

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Speaker 2: Seems likely image processing back then wasn't what it is

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now and enhancements could have created misleading shapes.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so no UFO shadow. What about Phobos being hollow?

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Speaker 2: Current science leans away from completely hollow based on gravity measurements.

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Is probably more like a loose pile of rocks and

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ice clump together.

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Speaker 1: A rubble pile, like NASA said, with lots of empty

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spaces inside.

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Speaker 2: Exactly significant voids caverns maybe, but not a single hollow shell.

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Speaker 1: And the grooves, if it's not hollow, what makes them.

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Speaker 2: The leading idea now is tidal stress. Mars is grouty

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is literally pulling Phobos apart. Seriously, Yeah, it creates stress

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inside and service material slumps down into those internal voids

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or along fault lines, creating the grooves.

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Speaker 1: So the grooves are basically stretch marks from Mars's gravity.

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Speaker 2: That's a good way to put it, and eventually Phobos

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will likely break up entirely and form a ring around Mars.

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Speaker 1: Wow, and the sheet metal skin.

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Speaker 2: Probably just millions of years of dust being kicked up

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by impacts and settling evenly over the surface, creating a

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kind of fine grained layer.

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Speaker 1: Okay, natural processes. What about monoliths being common?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, geologists see similar blocky formations elsewhere on our moon

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on asteroids. Their exact formation isn't always clear, but they're

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likely just unusual rock formations, not alien signposts.

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Speaker 1: And the city on Mars the tunnels.

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Speaker 2: Almost certainly peridolia, again seeing familiar shapes in random geology,

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Those tunnels are likely just natural rock ridges or collapsed

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lava tubes.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like most of the really wild stuff

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has well less wild explanations now.

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Speaker 2: For the most part. Yeah, science tends to find natural

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causes eventually, But that doesn't mean Phobos isn't still really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Oh, definitely, especially the idea may hold bits of ancient Mars,

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maybe evidence of past life.

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Speaker 2: That possibility is still very real and scientifically exciting. It

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makes Sobo subprime target, even if it's not hollow or artificial.

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Speaker 1: And landing there is hard right. Every mission failed so.

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Speaker 2: Far, every dedicated landing attempt. Yes, it's a tricky target,

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which just adds to the challenge in the intrigue.

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Speaker 1: But Japan's trying soon.

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Speaker 2: Yep. The Martian Moons Exploration MMX mission schedule to launch soon,

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hoping to land on Phobos, grab samples, and bring them

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back to Earth around late next year.

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Speaker 1: That could finally give us some real answers.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, you could tell us what Phobos is made of,

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how it formed, and maybe, just maybe, if it holds

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any secrets from Mars' past.

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Speaker 1: But even with the likely debunking of the Phobos to UFO,

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there's still a little question mark about exactly what happened,

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isn't there? Why did it fail? Right?

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Speaker 2: Them? There is? While computer malfunction is plausible, especially given

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prior issues, the timing and the strained final images, even

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if misinterpreted, leave a little room for well wondering, that

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lingering what if Right.

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Speaker 1: So we've journeyed through all this Phobos weirdness, hollow theories,

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lost probes, monoliths, Martian ruins.

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Speaker 2: And while science has chipped away at many of the

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biggest mysteries with natural explanations or data glitches.

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Speaker 1: Phobos itself is still this really strange, compelling little.

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Speaker 2: World, no doubt about it. It keeps drawing us back.

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Speaker 1: So here's something to think about. If Mars might have

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had life and Phobos could be holding pieces of that,

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what would finding even microscopic proof actually mean for us,

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for science, for everything.

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Speaker 2: It would be monumental, absolutely world changing, proof of life

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beyond Earth.

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Speaker 1: And even if Phobos isn't hollow but just full of

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voids and caves, what's going on inside? What weird geology

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or who knows what else could be happening hidden away

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in that lumpy potato.

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Speaker 2: Unanswered questions, That's what drives exploration. We encourage you to

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keep digging into Mars Phobos. The search for life one

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of the biggest stories out there.

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Speaker 1: For sure. The Universes packed with mysteries, and Phobos are weird.

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Little cosmic potato is definitely one of its most intriguing characters.