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At Chumbuck Casino dot com. 45 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:03.359 You'll pert never eat by lost or regnitions eighteen plus. 46 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:16.319 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 47 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:19.439 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 48 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:26.800 written about them, Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 49 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:30.520 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 50 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:35.159 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 51 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:38.680 journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 52 00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:53.120 Good Evening. Within the pages of the Trail of Ted Bundy, 53 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:57.360 digging up the untold stories, you'll hear the voices, many 54 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:00.479 for the first time, of some of Ted Bundy's friends 55 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:02.759 as they bring to light the secrets of what it 56 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.479 was like to know him while he was actively involved 57 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:09.159 in murder. The stories of his victims are here, as 58 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:12.639 well as told by their friends, including the information and 59 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:16.000 anecdotes that didn't make it into the investigative files and 60 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:19.199 are being published here for the first time. To the 61 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.000 former detectives who work with author Kevin Sullivan during the 62 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:25.960 writing of his widely acclaimed book The Bundy Murders, returned 63 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:30.120 to aid readers in fully understanding Bundy's murderous career, its 64 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:33.240 ripple effect impact on those who came into contact with 65 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:37.800 him in one way or another, and dispelling commonly held myths. 66 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:41.000 The Trail of Ted Bundy is a journey back in 67 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:43.680 time to when Ted Bundy was killing young women and 68 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:47.680 girls in the Pacific Northwest and beyond. It's told by 69 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:50.639 those who knew him, and you hear the revealing stories, 70 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:52.719 many being voiced and put to print for the very 71 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:56.159 first time. The friends of the victim are here as well, 72 00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:59.280 and they too share their insights about the victims, and 73 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:01.759 some of what they tell here had been held back 74 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:06.000 from the investigators, such was their commitment to their deceased friends. 75 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:10.080 It's also the story of those who hunted Bundy, those 76 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.120 who guarded him, and those who otherwise were a part 77 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:17.199 of this strange case one way or another. The book 78 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:20.040 that we're featuring this evening is the Trail of Ted Bundy. 79 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:24.480 Digging up the untold stories with my special guest, journalist 80 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:27.759 and author Kevin Sullivan. Welcome back to the program and 81 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:32.160 thank you for agreeing to this interview. Kevin Sullivan, Well, 82 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:35.319 thank you Dan for having me back. And I knew 83 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:37.480 you were going to have me back on after I completed. 84 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:39.480 It's good to see that it's gone to print and 85 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:43.160 I'm ready to talk about it. What It's always a 86 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.399 great pleasure talking to you and always exciting for the 87 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:50.319 audience to hear anything new about the very fascinating Ted 88 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:54.000 Bundy and also the very fascinating Kevin Sullivan. So let's 89 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:58.639 talk about will you just talk about it in your intro? 90 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:05.120 So just tell us why after doing what an exhaustive 91 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:08.160 and the most comprehensive, I guess story about Ted Bundy, 92 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:12.000 the most complete story to date about Ted Bundy with 93 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:15.560 the Bundy Murders. And I know you talk about how 94 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.439 someone a co author had asked about a possibility of 95 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:20.639 writing about something just a couple of years ago, and 96 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:24.240 you said no, So why why now? And why? 97 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:30.079 Yeah? The writing of the Bundye Murders was a two 98 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:34.160 and a half year marathon. It literally was a day 99 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:38.639 and night thing. There were no days off, and the 100 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:40.519 day and night and it was two and a half years. 101 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:43.279 And so once I was finished, whether I was asked 102 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:47.720 this in the book, I was exhausted physically and emotionally 103 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:53.079 from being in that world, as it were. And once 104 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:55.519 I was free of it and it went into publication, 105 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:58.959 I slowly kind of like return to myself and I 106 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:01.199 was able to go into other things, And of course 107 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:04.000 the case stays with me okay, there's none of day 108 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.879 goes by. I don't think about the victims, about Bundy 109 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:09.959 and everything that happened. And that happens with a lot 110 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:12.439 of books that I write, and it happens with a 111 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:16.680 lot of writers. But I could bang out the occasional article. 112 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:19.240 I could go on a radio program like I'm doing 113 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:22.800 here tonight, and that was okay. But I swore that 114 00:06:22.839 --> 00:06:26.240 I would never write any other books about Buddy or 115 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:29.199 go back into what I call that dark world. It's true. 116 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:32.720 A couple of years ago, another author asked me to 117 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:36.360 go author a book on possible murders he may have 118 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:39.839 been involved with. But at the time, the very thought 119 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.079 of doing that just really turned me off, and I 120 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:45.720 said to himself, I just can't do this, so you know, 121 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:48.040 I mean, I thought it over for a while, but 122 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:50.759 I told the person no, I was going to pass 123 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:52.800 on it. I just didn't want to do it. And 124 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:56.199 that's the way it remained for the last couple of years. 125 00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:59.279 But last spring, I was on the phone with somebody 126 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:02.000 and I can't say who the person is, but they're 127 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:07.600 closely connected to the Bundy case and they've been having 128 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:13.399 some significant medical problems and I got to thinking about 129 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:19.560 that and the voices that are still out there that 130 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:23.879 maybe haven't contributed as much to the Bundy saga as 131 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.839 it were, And I thought to myself, you know, it's 132 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.279 been forty one years since all of this happened. If 133 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:33.319 I ever want to record any more voices about this 134 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:37.160 very infamous case, I need to do it now. And 135 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:41.279 I think that was the impetus was, of course, speaking 136 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.040 to this person, and so with that I started down 137 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:46.439 the journey. And it was exactly like with the Bundy murders, 138 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:50.399 because I didn't have to rewrite a biography of Ted 139 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:53.000 Bundy or follow him closely on this trail of murder. 140 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:55.079 But it was going to be seeking out those who 141 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:59.480 knew him, those who knew the victims, consulting the case 142 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:04.279 files again, talking to some of the investigators again, and 143 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:09.399 just for posterity, because as a historian, it's very important 144 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:12.839 to me to gather these voices together and get them 145 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:16.240 in print, because one day all these voices will be 146 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:21.240 silent and then that's it. You can't gain anything from them. 147 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:22.279 So when I. 148 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:24.600 Began the book, I thought, you know, here I go again. 149 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:27.639 I got to find out. I got to locate people 150 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:33.679 who have either never talked before, or haven't been printed before, 151 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:37.519 or have basically stayed away, you know, from the case. 152 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:42.240 And I didn't know how fortunate I would be in 153 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:46.320 finding people, but I ended up being pretty fortunate. And 154 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:48.120 there were some people that helped me along the way 155 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:51.120 locate some people, and there were other people that I 156 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:54.279 didn't think I would find, but after doing investigations, I 157 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.840 was able to find them. And the greatest thing about 158 00:08:56.879 --> 00:08:59.200 it is is that most of the people that I 159 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:02.320 talked to talk with me and opened up with me, 160 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:05.000 and some were opening up for the very first time. 161 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:09.919 So it was I never expected to write another book 162 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:12.279 about Bunny. But as soon as I decided to do 163 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:16.120 this book and record voices that had never been recorded 164 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:20.759 before and get their stories into print, it had a 165 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:22.559 great feel to it, and I knew I was on 166 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:25.320 the right path. And then when I started discovering all 167 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.679 these people and they started talking to me, I thought, yep, 168 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:31.440 this was the right, right decision, and so that was 169 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:34.679 really the genesis of this book. 170 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:41.279 Now you just start off in chapter one in January 171 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:46.960 nineteen seventy four, and you focus on the Washington State murders, 172 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:48.960 and yes, and we talk about the mo O, and 173 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:52.799 you talk a little bit about Bundy's you know, early 174 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:59.399 life and his other the other family members. He was 175 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:02.200 out of well born, out of wedlock in Philadelphia. But 176 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:07.519 let's talk about, as you do in January nineteenth, nineteen 177 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:12.519 seventy four, the Ted Bundy's m O in Seattle, in 178 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.039 the Seattle area with the murders. So as you talk 179 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:17.840 about in the first chapter, let's talk about that. 180 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:23.559 Okay, Bundy was a meticulous planner of murder, and he 181 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:26.480 was never better at murder than when he was in 182 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:29.320 Washington State, and that was for a couple of reasons. 183 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.080 He knew the area well, and he knew where he 184 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:38.320 wanted to have body dumps, and he didn't leave anything 185 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:43.039 to chance. Later in his career, by the time he 186 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:46.600 gets to Florida, he's a mess. He's very sloppy. But 187 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:50.399 in Washington State and even again in Utah, and as 188 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:53.919 he branched out from there, he planned murder very well. 189 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:59.840 His m was one of he was a not just 190 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:03.919 a careful planner of murder, but sometimes he would seize 191 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:09.559 an opportunity if he saw it, and it was there. 192 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:15.000 Many of his murders occurred because he went hunting for victims. 193 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:19.399 Sometimes they occurred because they just happened. For example, if 194 00:11:19.399 --> 00:11:22.320 he saw a girl hitchhiking. Bundy had a standard way 195 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:28.240 of killing his victims, and there were a number of 196 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:30.600 women that he would whack in the head with a 197 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:35.559 crowbar once, two, three times. He wanted her unconscious, but 198 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:38.720 he didn't want her dead. And when he wanted a 199 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:42.759 woman unconscious, he wanted to be able to do sexually 200 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:46.399 what he wanted to do with her and then strangle 201 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:52.960 her while he's having sex with her. And he would 202 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:57.200 kill her in that manner during those murders. And there 203 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:00.519 were a number of them just like that. He wasn't 204 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:06.320 concerned about her interacting with him, okay, and so that's 205 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:11.039 what he wanted. There were sometimes, as with the women 206 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:17.279 at Lake some Amish, Janis Ott and Denise Naslin. Naslin 207 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.639 was gotten in the afternoon, but in the morning he 208 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:23.559 had gotten from Lake Samamish, you know janis Ott. He 209 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:29.200 had kept her somewhere, sexually attacked her, kept her tied up, 210 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:33.840 kept her alive all afternoon, and then he went back 211 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:37.559 to the lake at before four pm. And he was 212 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:40.519 able I think by about four twenty to convince Denise 213 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:43.799 Naslin to go with him. He had some ruse, He 214 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.360 just made up some excuse and trickter. She got in 215 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:49.240 his car and left and she was taken to where 216 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:54.039 Janis was. The two women saw each other terrified, just 217 00:12:54.840 --> 00:13:00.600 terror beyond description, and of course he sexually assaults you know, Mathlin, 218 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.320 and then we don't know which one, but he kills 219 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:07.600 one in front of the other. And of course even 220 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:11.039 before anybody was dead, that that that it was, the 221 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:14.240 place was filled with horror. These women knew that they 222 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:16.600 weren't going to get out of this, I'm sure. But 223 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:18.799 once he had killed one in front of the other, 224 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:22.279 he enjoyed the fact he drank it in and was 225 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:25.720 like fuel to him. That the other person saw it. 226 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:28.879 He meant her to see it, and her terror must 227 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:33.000 have been just unimaginable, and he enjoyed that. But there 228 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:35.120 were times he wanted to kill a woman. He didn't 229 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.399 want her to feel terror. And there were sometimes he 230 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:39.600 wanted to kill his victims. He wanted them to know 231 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.440 everything going on, so the the them. But the AMO 232 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.639 basically stayed about the same, and that would be choking, 233 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:50.159 choking a woman to death while he's having intercourse with 234 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:55.200 her from behind, either anal or vaginal and so that 235 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:59.039 the muscles, you know, as they're as they're expiring, they're 236 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:03.519 tightening up their muscles, which would include her vagina. And 237 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.200 you know, that's the kind of person that we're dealing with, Okay. 238 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:09.799 So he liked that, and then of course he loved neclophilia, 239 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:12.600 so if he had time, he would stay with them 240 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:17.799 and have additional sex acts. Sometimes, as with the hitchhiker 241 00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:19.759 that he picked up on his way to law school 242 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:24.600 in Idaho, he probably had you know, sex with her 243 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:27.519 after he knocked her out a time or two, strangled 244 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:30.840 her to death, and then maybe had you know, additional 245 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:33.440 sex with her. But he slid her body into the 246 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.759 river and that was it. But sometimes at Bundy planted 247 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:39.600 the body, he could either go back and visit the body, 248 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:42.440 or in the case of Washington State, even back in 249 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.799 Washington State, he admitted he told Bill Hagmeyer he had 250 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:51.639 as many as four heads in his apartment at the 251 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:56.960 Rogers rooming House on Twelfth Avenue in Seattle, I think 252 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:02.120 twelfth Northeast. I can't remember the exact address, but at 253 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.320 one time, and of course, you know, people need to 254 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:08.600 understand this isn't because he just wanted to view these heads, okay, 255 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:11.759 and put lipstick on him. He was obviously using these 256 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:16.159 heads for all sex. This is the deminuted diabolic individual 257 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.480 that we're talking about. But even within his m O 258 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:21.159 it could vary a little bit, and it wasn't until 259 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:26.279 the MO really changed with the killing of Lent Culver 260 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:30.159 in Pocatello, Idaho in May of seventy five, where he 261 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.159 changed it a little bit. So you could say that 262 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:36.360 Bundy's m O stayed almost almost the same. There would 263 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:42.960 be some differences in it. But for example, when just 264 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:45.480 to throw this oub since we're talking about m O, 265 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.440 when he and for ever, if everybody, the people listening 266 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:53.080 now followed the Bundy case at all, they know who 267 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:59.879 Carol Lurranch is. Carol deuranch was kidnapped from the Fashion 268 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:04.600 Small and Bundy took her to about a block and 269 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.200 a half away out of a place called the McMillan School, 270 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.759 and she had to fight him to get away from him. 271 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.960 She's the only person that ever got away. She said 272 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.000 she saw he had a crowbar, he could feel it 273 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:16.759 she was fighting, But she also said he had a 274 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:23.480 pistol that night. Now, the prosecutors, the prosecuting attorneys out there, 275 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:28.159 they told me they really don't think that Bundy had one, 276 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.679 but there is that possibility he had a pistol. So 277 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:35.399 if he did have a pistol on that night, if 278 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:37.679 he did, that would be a little I think that 279 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:41.679 would be a significant change in his MO because accept 280 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:44.600 picking up a twenty two rifle when he was on 281 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.000 the run at that cabin in Colorado after his first escape. 282 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:50.600 Except having a gun at that time, there is no 283 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:54.360 mention of a firearm anywhere. Bundy doesn't mention it. But 284 00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:56.399 like I say, if he did have a pistol in Utah, 285 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:58.879 at least on that night, that would have changed that 286 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:01.159 m O just a little bit. Anyway. That gives you 287 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:02.440 an idea. 288 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:07.359 What was Ted Bundy doing in his alter life at 289 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:10.000 that same time in Washington. You say he's very prolific, 290 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:12.559 and he's as good as he ever gets in terms 291 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:14.880 of serial murder, and he's a very good serial murderer. 292 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:19.160 Was his alter life really like at that time? 293 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:27.799 Well, it said that Bundy. I like to say that 294 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:32.599 his launching the murder happened in January of nineteen seventy four, 295 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:39.400 and that's he probably killed in seventy three. We don't know. 296 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:42.039 I even think he may have killed Anne Marie Burder 297 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.640 back in sixty one. But we know he launched in 298 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:49.079 the murder, a full, unabated murder where he wasn't going 299 00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:52.559 to come back from it, in January of nineteen seventy four. Well, 300 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:58.079 prior to that time, in seventy three, Bundy was you know, 301 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:02.160 he was working with publican party. He was you know, 302 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:06.960 he was rubbing shoulders with some of the political elites there. 303 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:11.359 He was dating Liz Kendall, she has a daughter. He 304 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:16.000 was preparing for law school, and so you know, he 305 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:22.319 was conducting himself in a normal professional fashion, and that 306 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:25.279 was the mass. Now, the interesting thing is there may 307 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:31.559 have been a time in Bundy's life, despite these things 308 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:33.839 on the inside of him what I call in the 309 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.839 Bundy murders, these dark emissaries like circling, you know, just 310 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.839 like a cloud over ing or something, he might have 311 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:43.480 thought that maybe I can pull this off. Maybe I 312 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:46.160 can be a lawyer, maybe I can be the governor 313 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:49.319 of Washington. Maybe I can do this despite all these 314 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:51.279 things going on of what I really want to do. 315 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:54.640 And so there might have been a back and forth 316 00:18:54.839 --> 00:19:00.759 within Ted Bundy, but by January of seventy four he 317 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.799 had already internally waved goodbye to that. And when he 318 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:08.480 attacked that one woman that he didn't kill, which some 319 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:13.880 people identify as Johnny Lentz, where he attacked her in 320 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:16.480 the U district about you know, two or three weeks. 321 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:20.039 I don't have the exact date before he attacked Linda 322 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:25.319 and Healy, but he didn't kill her. He thought he 323 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:29.839 was going to, but he didn't do it. But he 324 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:34.240 launched himself then now from that moment on, but he 325 00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:39.039 still went about his business. He would, you know, he 326 00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:41.839 would go to law school for that year at the 327 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:45.880 University of a Puget Sound. He would, you know, still 328 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.119 do some political stuff. But as the murders increased that year, 329 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:53.920 I noticed in the record that his attendance at these 330 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.680 political rallies started to fall off. And like there was 331 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:01.960 a caucus being held in law I think in June. 332 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:03.920 I'd have to go back and check my book to 333 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.880 Bunny Murse, but I think this caucus was in Laurelhurst, 334 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:11.400 Washington in June of seventy four, and he missed it. 335 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.519 And it's said in the record, and I put this 336 00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:17.519 in the book, the second delegate, a lady named Helen West, 337 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:21.039 had to take his place. So by then, not only 338 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:23.680 was he missing things I don't even think, he was 339 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:27.440 contacting people and saying, look, I just can't do this anymore. 340 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:33.119 So he was emotionally cutting his ties with everything that 341 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:37.160 was normal in his life. That's why in nineteen seventy four, 342 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.359 even if he killed before then, that's why nineteen seventy 343 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:43.920 four is so significant, is because he launched himself into 344 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:47.400 this world of murder and he was not going to 345 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:50.519 stop for any reason until he was captured or killed. 346 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:55.599 So that's basically Asmo. He was leading a normal life apparently, 347 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.319 but the life that could not be seen by his 348 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:04.319 friends and his coworkers was that of a diabolical murderer. 349 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.079 And the only people who ever saw that were the 350 00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:12.640 women who were captured by him. 351 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:16.920 Now you talk about from Washington State January to September 352 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:20.400 eleven women, Why does he move from Washington? What's the 353 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.559 impetus for him to move from Washington State? This place 354 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:27.160 that he knows real wellness is popular and successful hunting 355 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:28.599 round What makes a move? 356 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:34.680 Yeah? Sure he You know, Bundy came to realize over 357 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:38.000 time that he was going to drive himself out of 358 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:44.799 every area where he was killing women. He decided, you know, 359 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:51.440 to leave Washington and go to Utah, to the University 360 00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:56.960 of Utah School of Law. In the fall of seventy four. Now, 361 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.599 by the fall of seventy four, there was a red 362 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:05.400 hot manhunt in the Pacific Northwest for this killer of women. 363 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:09.240 You got to understand that when serial murder occurs in 364 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:15.720 an area, it's not always recognized that serial murder until 365 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:20.519 certain patterns emerge. And when those patterns emerge in Washington State, 366 00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:26.000 and they culminated at Lake Samamish. Up until Lake Samamish, 367 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:30.160 which is July fourteenth, nineteen seventy four. Up until that time, 368 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:35.119 they had a number of missing women, women that vanished 369 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:40.079 under very strange circumstances. Nobody wanted to come out and 370 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:43.880 say the girls have been murdered and they're dead. Cops, 371 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:47.640 of course suspected this. People suspected it, but they didn't 372 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:51.720 want to believe it. But once Lake Salamish occurred, where 373 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:55.039 a guy named Ted driving the Volkswagen had lured two 374 00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:59.079 girls away and they and they're just they're gone, there 375 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:02.240 was a whole different ball game, and every and the 376 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:09.759 manhunt got very very extensive out there, And so true, 377 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.480 he wanted to go to law school, but what he 378 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:14.720 really wanted was a new killing ground. And I believe 379 00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:18.559 the reason why he chose Utah is because his girlfriend 380 00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:21.440 lives Kendall. And I use her last name. It's actually 381 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.279 Clofer or something like that, but that's the name she 382 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:27.880 chose for her book, The Phantom Print. So I mean, 383 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:31.599 I also honor that I call her Liz Kendall. She's 384 00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:34.000 from Utah, and so you know she would go home 385 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:35.839 to see her folks. He would go with her. He 386 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:39.119 got to know that area fairly well, so for him, 387 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:43.839 moving to Utah wasn't like just moving somewhere that he 388 00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:46.680 didn't have any knowledge of. But here's the thing about Utah. 389 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.000 When he got to wait a lucky landslide. You can 390 00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:51.960 get lucky just about anywhere. 391 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.680 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 392 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.519 weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here 393 00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:00.920 a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. It's 394 00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:03.559 just these cash prizes add up quick. So I suggest 395 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:05.640 you sit back, keep your trade table up right, and 396 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:06.720 start getting lucky. 397 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:10.400 Play for free at Lucky landslides dot com. Are you 398 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:14.200 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 399 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:18.119 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 400 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.640 Utah, he was like a kid in a candy store 401 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:27.759