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<v Speaker 1>Hey, everyone, welcome back for another deep dive.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, welcome back.

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<v Speaker 1>This time we're digging into tribe of hackers security leaders.

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<v Speaker 1>Oooh yes, you know, I think everyone kind of gets

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<v Speaker 1>by on the technical skills, but like actually leaving a team, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, making the tough calls.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a different beast.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>In this cybersecurity world is like a whole other.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, a whole other level.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And what I think is so interesting about this book

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<v Speaker 1>in particular is that, you know, it's not just a

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<v Speaker 1>technical how to manual r you know, it's really a

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<v Speaker 1>collection of interviews with a whole bunch of different cybersecurity

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<v Speaker 1>leaders and they share their strategic thinking and their war stories,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of their lessons learned along the way.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it because it's like we're getting a peak

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<v Speaker 2>behind the curtain exactly to see how their minds work. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, it makes this deep dive so valuable.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's not just theory. It's like real world oil

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<v Speaker 2>world wisdom from these people who've been in the trench,

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<v Speaker 2>been they've done that exactly. So let's jump into that

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<v Speaker 2>first big takeaway that really stood out to me. This

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<v Speaker 2>idea of the evolving cybersecurity landscape. I mean, we hear

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<v Speaker 2>all the time about how things are changing so rapidly constantly,

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<v Speaker 2>but what does that mean, Like, what does that actually

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<v Speaker 2>mean for security leaders?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a great question. And you know, one of

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<v Speaker 1>the most thought provoking ideas I think comes from James Arln,

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<v Speaker 1>who leads salesforce for Roku's production engineering team. Okay, and

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<v Speaker 1>he argues that cybersecurity should be everybody's responsibility, okay, woven

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<v Speaker 1>into every role, not just siloed within the security team.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. That's a big shift from how most companies operate today.

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<v Speaker 1>Huge And he even compares it to this idea of

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<v Speaker 1>a chief electrification officer, which you know, that role essentially

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<v Speaker 1>disappeared as electricity became commonplace. He's asking like, is cybersecurity

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<v Speaker 1>headed in the same direction.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's saying, like, could we get to a point

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<v Speaker 2>where you don't need a specialist.

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<v Speaker 1>Potentially yeah, to like, you know, handle every single security issue.

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<v Speaker 2>Imagine if you didn't need, you know, a specialized electrician

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<v Speaker 2>to change a light bulb. Could we reach a point

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<v Speaker 2>where you don't need a dedicated team yeah, to handle

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<v Speaker 2>every security issue.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a really compelling idea. But it's also a little daunting, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit like how do you even implement that?

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<v Speaker 1>Like distributed responsibility?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and he suggests that this model could lead to

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<v Speaker 2>greater accountability. Okay, if everyone has skin in the game,

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<v Speaker 2>so to speak, when it comes to security, then they're

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<v Speaker 2>more likely to take it seriously.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, But it also means like a huge cultural shift.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely, because right now most companies have these dedicated

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<v Speaker 1>security teams. Would those just become obsolete.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, not necessarily obsolete, but their roles might evolve. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>they could become more focused on oversight and compliance, ensuring

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<v Speaker 2>that everyone's meeting their security responsibilities right, rather than handling

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<v Speaker 2>all the technical tasks themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's almost like they become a coach instead of

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<v Speaker 1>a player.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Think of it as a coach who empowers their

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<v Speaker 2>team to succeed, rather than a player who does everything themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. It's empowering every single person to be a security advocate,

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely relying on just this small group.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this actually brings up another challenge that these

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<v Speaker 2>leaders discuss, this idea of decision making under pressure. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>you're constantly facing these high stake situations where you need

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<v Speaker 2>to balance risk and business needs in human factors. So

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<v Speaker 2>how do they approach that?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, any practical advice we can get from their experience.

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<v Speaker 2>There's some really great advice, and you can apply this

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<v Speaker 2>to your own work. Andrew Bagrin, the founder of omninet.

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<v Speaker 2>He gives you a framework for making those tough calls,

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<v Speaker 2>but the business and your team's needs first, especially when

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<v Speaker 2>it comes to personnel decisions.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's interesting because it's saying, sometimes the technically right

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<v Speaker 1>answer yeah, might not be the best for the organize.

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<v Speaker 2>It might not be or even the people. Exactly. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know Christopher Caruso who has extensive experience in both

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<v Speaker 2>IT and OT cybersecurity. Now, what's ot OT is operational

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<v Speaker 2>technology and it refers to the systems that control physical processes. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so he adds another crucial element, understanding your audience.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not just about being right, it's about being persuasive.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly. So when you're presenting security recommendations to leadership,

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<v Speaker 2>you need to be factual, confident, and most importantly, understand

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<v Speaker 2>the board's perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So you're saying, like you've got align your recommendations

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<v Speaker 1>online with their priorities that makes a lot of sense,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's not always black and white. Sometimes you have

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<v Speaker 1>to make these judgment calls where there's no easy answer.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and another leader, Rafel Loss Okay, talks about this

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<v Speaker 2>delicate balance between data driven analysis and gut feeling.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're saying, it's not just the hold hard data,

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<v Speaker 1>not just the data, it's also like trusting your instincts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, he emphasizes combining data with your intuition.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and your passion. That makes sense because cybersecurity you're

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<v Speaker 1>always dealing with the unknown you are and making decisions

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<v Speaker 1>when you're not really sure what's going to happen next.

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<v Speaker 1>So you've got this framework for decision making, but then

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<v Speaker 1>you need.

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<v Speaker 2>The right team absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>To help you execute those decisions for sure. What insights

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<v Speaker 1>does the book offer on building and leading these high

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<v Speaker 1>performing security teams.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of great advice, but Leslie Carhart, principal

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<v Speaker 2>threat analyst at Dragos, really hit the nail on the

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<v Speaker 2>head with her emphasis on team well being. She says

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<v Speaker 2>that good leaders shield their teams from negativity and create

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<v Speaker 2>a supportive environment where everyone can thrive.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, that's so important, especially in cybersecurity, because burnout

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<v Speaker 1>is such a real issue. It is how do you

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<v Speaker 1>actually do that? How do you create this positive environment

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<v Speaker 1>without ignoring the real concerns.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a tough one. It is a delicate balance. You

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to create this culture of toxic positivity where

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<v Speaker 2>people are afraid to speak up, but at the same time,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't want to overwhelm your team with negativity. It's

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<v Speaker 2>about finding that balance, acknowledging the challenges but also focusing

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<v Speaker 2>on the solutions and celebrating the successes.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's that psychological safety where people feel like they

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<v Speaker 1>can speak up exactly without being you know, or shut

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<v Speaker 1>down exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And there's another leader, David Evenden, founder of Standard

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<v Speaker 2>User Cybersecurity okay, and he talks about evolving from a

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<v Speaker 2>more assertive leadership style okay, to a more empathetic approach okay,

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<v Speaker 2>really focused on teen growth and satting clear expectations.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's about adapting, adapting your leadership style to fit

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<v Speaker 1>the needs of your team and this ever changing security landscape.

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<v Speaker 2>So not being stuck in your waist right.

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<v Speaker 1>Not just doing it because that's how you've always done it.

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<v Speaker 1>And Charles Mowatu, an engineering manager at Netflix, adds that

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<v Speaker 1>transparency and vulnerability and creating a supportive environment for growth

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<v Speaker 1>are really crucial for building that trust for sure, and

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<v Speaker 1>empowering your team.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. I love that he emphasizes vulnerability. Yeah, it's so

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<v Speaker 2>important for leaders to show that they're human too, and

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<v Speaker 2>that they're not afraid to ask for help or admit

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<v Speaker 2>when they don't have all the answers.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. It creates a culture where everyone feels safe to

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<v Speaker 1>take risks and learn from mistakes.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, And speaking of learning, the book also delves into

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<v Speaker 2>the cybersecurity skills gap. Oh yeah, which is a huge topic.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a big one. It is what concrete solutions

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<v Speaker 1>did these leaders offer.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a little bit of debate, okay about the nature

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<v Speaker 2>of the gap.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew Bagrin argues that there's no shortage of you and

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<v Speaker 2>your talent, but a lack of experience senior professionals.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not just about getting people in. Not just

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<v Speaker 1>getting them in, it's about helping them move up.

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<v Speaker 2>Helping them get to that senior level.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that seems to be a common theme, is

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<v Speaker 1>that development and mentorship are really key to addressing this.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. Steve Christy Coley principal INFOSEC engineer at my tr Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>he stresses the need for the industry to invest in

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<v Speaker 2>training okay, and support for less experienced individuals, basically saying,

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<v Speaker 2>we can't just expect these season pros to magically appear.

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<v Speaker 2>We need to create opportunities for mentorship, training, and career advancement.

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<v Speaker 1>You Know, it's interesting because sometimes these job descriptions for

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<v Speaker 1>cybersecurity roles want people to be unicorns, they do. They

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<v Speaker 1>want them to have all this experiences of experience in

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<v Speaker 1>every single technology.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, and that's something that Steven A. Ridley, a cybersecurity

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<v Speaker 2>consultant Okay, he criticizes this.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>He highlights the importance of giving young professionals a chance

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<v Speaker 2>and challenging those unrealistic expectations and requirements often found in

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<v Speaker 2>those job.

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<v Speaker 1>Descriptions because it can be really discouraging, I bet very

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<v Speaker 1>discouraging for someone new.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, so there needs to be a mindset shift, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>not just focusing on years of experience, but looking at

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<v Speaker 2>potential and aptitude.

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<v Speaker 1>So focusing on those qualities and recognizing that raw talent

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<v Speaker 1>can be nurtured.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and they also emphasize the importance of providing opportunities

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<v Speaker 2>for mentorship where experience professionals can guide and support those

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<v Speaker 2>who are just starting out.

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<v Speaker 1>Mentorship is so crucial, it is. It's passing on knowledge,

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<v Speaker 1>building confidence, creating a sense of community.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, But it's not just about developing individual skills. There's

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<v Speaker 2>also a strong emphasis on collaboration and communication.

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<v Speaker 1>Because cybersecurity can't operate in a silo, no, it can't.

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<v Speaker 1>Leaders need to break down these barriers, build relationships with

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<v Speaker 1>other teams, from executives to developers.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and that starts with communication.

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<v Speaker 1>So how do they suggest we go about building these bridges?

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<v Speaker 2>You know? Edward Prevostky, staff security engineer at Squarespace, has

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<v Speaker 2>a great reframing. He suggests that infosec should transition from

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<v Speaker 2>a no team oh to a collaborative partner.

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<v Speaker 1>So instead of shutting down ideas, security teams should be

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<v Speaker 1>offering solutions, offering solutions, working together, working together to achieve

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<v Speaker 1>those shared goals exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>He talks about clearly defining risk, appetite and offering options

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<v Speaker 2>rather than just saying no outright.

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<v Speaker 1>That's so important. It is because if security is seen

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<v Speaker 1>as a roadblock, people are going to find ways to

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<v Speaker 1>go around it. They will, but if they see it

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<v Speaker 1>as a partner, then they can work together.

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<v Speaker 2>To find secure solutions.

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<v Speaker 1>But that requires a high level of communication and trust.

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<v Speaker 2>It does, absolutely, and Christopher Adneck, founder of Social engine

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<v Speaker 2>Near LLC, really hits on this point. He emphasizes transparency,

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<v Speaker 2>frequent communication, and creating a culture of trust okay. He

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<v Speaker 2>believes that when everyone's on the same page right and

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<v Speaker 2>feels comfortable sharing information, that's when it's easiest to identify

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<v Speaker 2>right and address security risks.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's building those relationships, creating that environment where people

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<v Speaker 1>feel safe speaking up exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And Charles Watu, who we mentioned earlier, adds that top

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<v Speaker 2>down security awareness okay, embedded in the company culture is essential.

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<v Speaker 2>He also stresses the importance of building relationships with engineering

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<v Speaker 2>teams working collaboratively to integrate security into the development process.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes sense when you put it that way.

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<v Speaker 2>It does.

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<v Speaker 1>Security is just an afterthought. It's always going to be

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<v Speaker 1>playing catch up, absolutely, but if it's baked into the

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<v Speaker 1>culture from the top down, it becomes part of everyone's mindset.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So we've covered a lot here, But did these leaders

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<v Speaker 1>offer any reading recommendations?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Yeah, they did. For aspiring cybersecurity pros who want

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<v Speaker 2>to level up their leadership skills, Yeah, they did. They

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<v Speaker 2>offered a really diverse range of bucks, catering to different

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<v Speaker 2>leadership styles and interests.

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<v Speaker 1>So like, what kind of stuff? Well?

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<v Speaker 2>Some were business and leadership classics Good to Great by

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<v Speaker 2>Jim Collins. Okay, yeah, what got you here? Won't Get

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<v Speaker 2>You There by Marshall Goldsmith, and The Hard Thing About

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<v Speaker 2>Hard Things by Ben Horowitz.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are all fantastic books. They are with timeless advice

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<v Speaker 1>on building strong teams, making tough decisions, navigating the challenges

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<v Speaker 1>of leadership.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, regardless of your industry.

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<v Speaker 1>What about books specifically focused on cybersecurity?

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<v Speaker 2>Of course?

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<v Speaker 1>What did they say?

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<v Speaker 2>Some popular choices were Tribe of Hackers, Naturally, Security Metrics

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<v Speaker 2>Replacing Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt by Andrew Jackwith, and Applied

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<v Speaker 2>Cryptography by Bruce Schneier.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are must reads for anyone serious about cybersecurity for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>What about books on communication, teamwork, and decision making skills

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<v Speaker 1>that are essential for any good leader?

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<v Speaker 2>They covered those two Team of Teams by General Stanley McCrystal,

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<v Speaker 2>Death by Meeting by Patrick Lincioni, Radical Candor by Kim Scott.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that is quite the list, the reading list. This

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<v Speaker 1>could keep me busy for a while. You know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>inspiring to see how these leaders are not just experts

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<v Speaker 1>in their field, but also well rounded individuals. Yes, who

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<v Speaker 1>value continuous learning and personal growth, for sure. But I'm

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<v Speaker 1>also curious what keeps them up at night?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, good question.

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<v Speaker 1>What are their biggest concerns? Yeah, when it comes to cybersecurity.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you're right, these leaders are incredibly knowledgeable and passionate. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're also realistic about the challenges we face in cybersecurity.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>One recurring theme is this constantly evolving threat landscape. They're

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<v Speaker 2>keenly aware of new vulnerabilities, sophisticated attack techniques. It's relentless,

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<v Speaker 2>relentless pressure to stay ahead of the bad guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Like these sentinels, always on watch, yes, for the next

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<v Speaker 1>big attack.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a good way to put it. It's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of responsibility, it is, and that actually ties into another

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<v Speaker 2>major concern they share, the talent shortage we talked about earlier.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's a constant struggle to find and keep

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<v Speaker 2>skilled cybersecurity professionals, especially those with experience and leadership potential. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>The competition for talent is fierce and it's only getting tougher.

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<v Speaker 1>And then on top of that you add the rapid

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<v Speaker 1>pace of technological change. Absolutely new technologies emerging constantly, which

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<v Speaker 1>brings opportunities, yes, but also new security risks so many

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<v Speaker 1>it's like this never ending game of cat and mouse.

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<v Speaker 2>I like that analogy. Yeah, that's a good way to

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<v Speaker 2>put it. You're constantly trying to secure new systems and

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<v Speaker 2>applications while also dealing with legacy technologies that might be

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<v Speaker 2>riddled with vulnerabilities.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and let's not forget the growing complexity of IT environments.

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<v Speaker 1>As organizations adopt cloud computing, right, mobile devices, the Internet

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<v Speaker 1>of Things, It's expanded tack surface is just.

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<v Speaker 2>It's getting bigger and bigger. It's like trying to build

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<v Speaker 2>a fortress with walls that are constantly shifting and expand

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<v Speaker 2>how do.

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<v Speaker 1>You even begin to defend something like that?

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<v Speaker 2>That is the million dollar question. Yeah, that's the challenge

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<v Speaker 2>these leaders grapple with every day.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and of course you can't forget about the human element,

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<v Speaker 1>the human elament. Even with the best technologies and processes

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<v Speaker 1>in place, human error is.

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<v Speaker 2>Still it's still a major risk.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, A single phishing email, or a weak password, or

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<v Speaker 1>just a careless mistake.

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<v Speaker 2>One wrong click can open the door to a devastating attack.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, you can have all the fancy tools and

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<v Speaker 1>technologies in the world, but ultimately security comes down to people.

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<v Speaker 2>It really does.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, leaders understand that.

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<v Speaker 2>They do.

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<v Speaker 1>They worry about the impact of a successful attack on

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<v Speaker 1>their organization's reputation, romance's customer trust.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a heavy burden to carry, it is, for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>So given all of these challenges, the book also asked

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<v Speaker 1>these leaders what they would change about cybersecurity leadership if

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<v Speaker 1>they had a magic.

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<v Speaker 2>Wand a magic wand I love it.

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<v Speaker 1>What did they say?

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<v Speaker 2>What are their big dreams for the future For the

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<v Speaker 2>future of cybersecurity leadership? Well, one common theme was this

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<v Speaker 2>desire for greater alignment between security and business goals. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>they want to move away from security being seen as

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<v Speaker 2>a roadblock and instead be viewed as a strategic partner

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<v Speaker 2>that helps enable business growth and innovation.

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<v Speaker 1>Which makes sense because if it's just seen as a

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<v Speaker 1>cost center or like a compliance burden, it's always going

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<v Speaker 1>to be an uphill battle.

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<v Speaker 2>It is, But if it's viewed as a key enabler

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<v Speaker 2>it becomes a real competitive advantage exactly. Leaders also expressed

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<v Speaker 2>a desire for a more proactive and preventative approach okay

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<v Speaker 2>to cybersecurity.

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<v Speaker 1>So instead of always putting out fires, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Moving away from that reactive firefighting mentality that's so prevalent

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<v Speaker 2>in the.

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<v Speaker 1>Industry, They want to prevent the fires from starting in.

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<v Speaker 2>The first place, absolutely, and they recognize that this requires

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<v Speaker 2>a different mindset, different skills, different investment. Another wish was

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<v Speaker 2>for greater investment in security awareness and training. They envision

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<v Speaker 2>a world where everyone in the organization, from the CEO

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<v Speaker 2>to the newest intern, understands their role in protecting the organization.

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<v Speaker 1>So creating a culture of security.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, where it's not just the security team's job, but

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<v Speaker 2>everyone's responsibility.

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<v Speaker 1>To be vigilant absolutely, and to understand.

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<v Speaker 2>The risks yes, and how to mitigate them.

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<v Speaker 1>There is also a strong desire for greater diversity and

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<v Speaker 1>inclusion in the workforce.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. Many leaders recognize that we need to attract and

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<v Speaker 2>reat talent from a wider range of backgrounds and experiences.

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<v Speaker 1>Diversity of thought is so crucial.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, especially in cybersecurity, where you're constantly facing new threats,

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<v Speaker 2>new challenges.

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<v Speaker 1>Having those different perspectives can only make you stronger.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. And finally, some leaders expressed a desire for a

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<v Speaker 2>future where cybersecurity is simply baked in to every aspect

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<v Speaker 2>of technology.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're saying like they envision a world where security.

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<v Speaker 2>Is just an integral yeah, of the design and development process.

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<v Speaker 1>Not just an afterthought, but a bold on solution. So

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<v Speaker 1>making security a fundamental principle, yes, that guides every aspect

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<v Speaker 1>of our digital lives, just like.

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<v Speaker 2>Safety is a fundamental principle right in the physical world.

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<v Speaker 1>So these magic wand wishes, Yeah, they really paint a picture,

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<v Speaker 1>they do, of where these leaders see cybersecurity heading. Absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>But what about concrete advice? Yeah, for these aspiring leader

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<v Speaker 1>what do they suggest for those who are looking to

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<v Speaker 1>step into leadership roles in cybersecurity?

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<v Speaker 2>Will they emphasize a lot of the themes we've already discussed,

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<v Speaker 2>continuous learning, staying ahead of the curve in this rapidly

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<v Speaker 2>evolving field, developing both technical skills and leadership qualities.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not enough to be the tech expert. You

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<v Speaker 1>also have to be able to lead people, communicate effectively,

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<v Speaker 1>and make those strategic decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>And they highlight the importance of building relationships, networking with

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<v Speaker 2>other professionals, seeking out mentors who can guide and support you.

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<v Speaker 1>Mentorship is so valuable, absolutely, especially in a field like this.

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<v Speaker 2>Or experience is often hard one. Having someone to bounce

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<v Speaker 2>ideas off of, ask for advice, Yeah, learn from their mistakes.

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<v Speaker 1>It's invaluable, it is. Yeah. They encourage these aspiring leaders

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<v Speaker 1>to develop their communication skills sure, learning to explain those

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<v Speaker 1>complex technical concepts in a way that resonates with different

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<v Speaker 1>audiences executtives to developers.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, that's crucial. And as a leader, you're always going

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<v Speaker 2>to be communicating, whether it's presenting to the board, explaining

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<v Speaker 2>a security incident to your team, advocating for resources.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a big part of the job.

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<v Speaker 2>It is. And finally, these leaders urge you to embrace

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<v Speaker 2>the challenge of cybersecurity, to see it not just as

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<v Speaker 2>a job, but as a mission to protect organizations, communities,

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<v Speaker 2>our digital lives.

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<v Speaker 1>To find meaning and purpose in your work, knowing that

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<v Speaker 1>you're making a real difference.

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<v Speaker 2>And inspiring others to join you in that mission to

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<v Speaker 2>build a more secure and resilient digital future for everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great mission.

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<v Speaker 1>This has been a fantastic deep dive. I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>I've learned so much from hearing these leaders insights and perspectives.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really inspiring to see their passion and their commitment

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<v Speaker 1>to excellence, and just their unwavering belief in the importance

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<v Speaker 1>of their work.

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<v Speaker 2>And what's so great about Tribe of Hackers Security Leaders

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<v Speaker 2>is that it goes beyond those technical aspects of cybersecurity

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<v Speaker 2>and it really explores that human side of leadership. It

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<v Speaker 2>gives you a glimpse into the challenges I triumphs, the

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<v Speaker 2>wisdom these leaders have gained from years of experience.

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<v Speaker 1>It reminds you that behind every successful cybersecurity program, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there's this team of dedicated and passionate individuals committed to

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<v Speaker 1>protecting their organizations and the people they serve.

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<v Speaker 2>And this deep dive has been a call to action.

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<v Speaker 2>Embrace the challenge, develop your skills, build relationships, strive to

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<v Speaker 2>become the leaders the world needs in this ever evolving field.

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<v Speaker 1>Well said, So, if you're ready to dive deeper into

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<v Speaker 1>these ideas and learn from the best, yeah, I highly

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<v Speaker 1>recommend checking out Tribe of Hackers Security Leaders.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a treasure trove of insights and inspiration it is

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<v Speaker 2>for anyone who aspires to a leadership role right in

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<v Speaker 2>this exciting and challenging field.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and as you continue on your own leadership journey,

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<v Speaker 1>remember the advice of these incredible leaders. Stay curious, stay adaptable,

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<v Speaker 1>say connected, and never stop learning.

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<v Speaker 2>The future of cybersecurity depends on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well said, Thanks for joining us on this deep dive. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>thank Until next time, stay safe, stay secure, keep on learning.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. Yeah, it's cuff. You don't want to, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>create that culture of toxic positivity where people are afraid

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<v Speaker 2>to raise concerns, but you also don't want to overwhelm

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<v Speaker 2>people with negativity. It's finding that balance, acknowledging those challenges,

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<v Speaker 2>focusing on the solutions, and celebrating the successes.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes a lot of sense. It's about creating that

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<v Speaker 1>sense of psychological safety where they feel like they can

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<v Speaker 1>speak up absolutely without fear of being.

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<v Speaker 2>Punished, punished or shut down.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. And there's another fascinating leadership journey shared by

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<v Speaker 1>David Evenden, founder of Standard User's Cybersecurity, and he talks about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, evolving from a more assertive leadership style to

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<v Speaker 1>a more empathetic approach, you know, focused on team growth

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<v Speaker 1>and clear expectations. So adapting, adapting your leadership style, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>to fit the needs of the team.

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<v Speaker 2>To fit the needs and the ever changing landscape.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, and not just being stuck in your ways because

430
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:28.319
<v Speaker 1>that's how it's always been.

431
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Done, exactly. And Charles and Watouka, an engineering manager at Netflix,

432
00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:36.599
<v Speaker 2>adds that transparency, vulnerability, and creating that supportive environment for

433
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.400
<v Speaker 2>growth are crucial for building trust and empowering the team.

434
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:45.079
<v Speaker 1>You know, I love that he emphasizes vulnerability. Yes, it's

435
00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.319
<v Speaker 1>so important for leaders to show that they're human, it is,

436
00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:50.720
<v Speaker 1>and that they don't have all the answers.

437
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:52.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that it's okay to ask for help, right.

438
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:54.759
<v Speaker 1>And it creates that culture where everyone feels safe to

439
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:57.720
<v Speaker 1>take risks exactly and learn from mistakes.

440
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:00.599
<v Speaker 2>And learn from their stakes. Absolutely. And speaking of learning,

441
00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:04.079
<v Speaker 2>the book also delves into the cybersecurity skills gap.

442
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh, the skills gap, Yeah.

443
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Which is a topic that's hey top of mind for

444
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:09.519
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these leaders.

445
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.279
<v Speaker 1>It feels like everybody's talking about the skills gap. But

446
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:15.519
<v Speaker 1>what concrete solutions did these leaders offer.

447
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's a little bit of a debate, I would say,

448
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:23.119
<v Speaker 2>about the nature of the gap. Andrew Bagrin argues that

449
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:27.400
<v Speaker 2>there's no shortage of junior talent, okay, but a lack

450
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:29.279
<v Speaker 2>of experienced senior professionals.

451
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:31.559
<v Speaker 1>Right. So it's not just about getting people in, not

452
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:34.160
<v Speaker 1>just getting them in, it's about providing those pathways for

453
00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:36.680
<v Speaker 1>them to move up exactly.

454
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Moving up to those senior roles.

455
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:40.039
<v Speaker 1>And that seems to be a common theme. It is

456
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:44.400
<v Speaker 1>this idea that development and mentorship are key to addressing this.

457
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:49.319
<v Speaker 2>Yes, absolutely. Steve Christy Coley, principle INFOSEC engineer at ITIRE,

458
00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:52.920
<v Speaker 2>he stresses the need for the industry to invest in

459
00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:57.480
<v Speaker 2>training and support, okay for less experienced individuals. Right. He's saying,

460
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:01.839
<v Speaker 2>you know, we can't expect season pros to just magically appear.

461
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:06.519
<v Speaker 2>We need to create those opportunities for mentorship, training, career advancement.

462
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.519
<v Speaker 1>You know, sometimes it feels like these job descriptions for

463
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:14.880
<v Speaker 1>cybersecurity roles, they want people to be unicorns. They want

464
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.480
<v Speaker 1>them to have all of this experience in every single technology,

465
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:21.519
<v Speaker 1>years and years of experience, and it can be really discouraging,

466
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:24.759
<v Speaker 1>oh yeah, for newcomers, very discouraging for someone new to

467
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:27.240
<v Speaker 1>even try to get into the field exactly.

468
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:31.920
<v Speaker 2>And that's something that Stephen A. Ridley, a cybersecurity consultant, criticizes.

469
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:35.920
<v Speaker 2>He highlights the importance of giving young professionals a chance

470
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:40.119
<v Speaker 2>and challenging those unrealistic expectations that are often found in

471
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:44.319
<v Speaker 2>those job descriptions. You know, those expectations can really discourage

472
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:46.079
<v Speaker 2>newcomers from even entering the field.

473
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:50.359
<v Speaker 1>So it sounds like there needs to be this mindset shift. Yes,

474
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:54.640
<v Speaker 1>not just focusing on years of experience, but really looking

475
00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:57.359
<v Speaker 1>at potential.

476
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Pidental and aptitude.

477
00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:02.039
<v Speaker 1>Aptitude and recognizing that raw talent can be developed.

478
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:07.359
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and many of the leaders advocate for changes in

479
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.799
<v Speaker 2>hiring practices, Okay, focusing more of those qualities, recognizing that

480
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:16.640
<v Speaker 2>raw talent can be nurtured and developed into cybersecurity expertise.

481
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:20.839
<v Speaker 2>They also emphasize the importance of providing opportunities for mentorship

482
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:23.640
<v Speaker 2>where experienced professionals can guide and support.

483
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:25.000
<v Speaker 1>It's so important.

484
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:29.440
<v Speaker 2>It's about passing on that knowledge, right, building confidence, creating

485
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:30.920
<v Speaker 2>a sense of community, And it's not.

486
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:34.279
<v Speaker 1>Just about developing those individual skills right. There's also this

487
00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:37.319
<v Speaker 1>emphasis on collaboration and communication.

488
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.079
<v Speaker 2>Yes, cybersecurity can operate an asylum.

489
00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Leaders need to break down those barriers and build relationships

490
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:50.400
<v Speaker 1>with all the different teams from executives, executives, developers, legal, everybody, everyone,

491
00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:52.240
<v Speaker 1>and that all starts with communication.

492
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:53.119
<v Speaker 2>It does.

493
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:55.920
<v Speaker 1>So how do they suggest we build these bridges?

494
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.720
<v Speaker 2>Well. Edward Prevost, a staff security engineer at Squarespace, has

495
00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:06.000
<v Speaker 2>a great reframing. He suggests that infosec should transition from

496
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:09.240
<v Speaker 2>a no team to a collaborative partner.

497
00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:10.000
<v Speaker 1>I like that.

498
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:13.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Instead of just shutting down ideas, security team should

499
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:17.640
<v Speaker 2>be offering solutions, working with other teams to achieve those

500
00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:18.519
<v Speaker 2>shared goals.

501
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:21.119
<v Speaker 1>So they're not just a roadblock exactly, They're a partner

502
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:21.880
<v Speaker 1>in the process.

503
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.440
<v Speaker 2>They are a partner. He talks about clearly defining risk,

504
00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:31.359
<v Speaker 2>appetite and offering options rather than just saying no outright.

505
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:33.200
<v Speaker 1>Which is so important because if they are seen as

506
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:35.920
<v Speaker 1>a roadblock, yes, people are going to find ways to

507
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:37.559
<v Speaker 1>go around they wis security.

508
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you can't stop progress, you can't.

509
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.440
<v Speaker 1>And if they see security as a partner, then they

510
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:45.519
<v Speaker 1>can work together to find those secure solutions.

511
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:47.200
<v Speaker 2>To find secure solutions exactly.

512
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:50.440
<v Speaker 1>But that requires a high level of communication and trust.

513
00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:54.599
<v Speaker 2>It does, absolutely, and Christopher Hadnaggi, the founder of Social

514
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Engineer LLC, really hits on this point Okay. He emphasizes transperncy,

515
00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:05.480
<v Speaker 2>frequent communication, and creating that culture of trust okay, he

516
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:09.000
<v Speaker 2>believes it. You know, when everyone's on the same page

517
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:13.319
<v Speaker 2>right and feels comfortable sharing information, that's when it's easiest

518
00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:15.599
<v Speaker 2>to identify and address those security risks to.

519
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:20.440
<v Speaker 1>Building those relationships, creating that environment where people feel safe

520
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.039
<v Speaker 1>speaking up exactly.

521
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:25.119
<v Speaker 2>And Charles Nawatu, who we mentioned earlier, yea as that

522
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:29.319
<v Speaker 2>top down security awareness embedded in the company culture is essential.

523
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:30.039
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

524
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.799
<v Speaker 2>He also stresses the importance of building relationships with engineering

525
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:38.720
<v Speaker 2>teams working collaboratively to integrate security into that development process.

526
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:41.279
<v Speaker 1>It makes so much sense, he does, when you put

527
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.400
<v Speaker 1>it that way. If security is just an afterthought, it's

528
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:48.359
<v Speaker 1>always going to be playing catch up. Absolutely, But if

529
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:51.519
<v Speaker 1>it's baked into the culture from the top down, it

530
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:53.559
<v Speaker 1>becomes part of everybody's mindset.

531
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

532
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:57.480
<v Speaker 1>So we've covered a lot, but I'm curious, did these

533
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:00.440
<v Speaker 1>leaders offer any reading recommendation.

534
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:05.160
<v Speaker 2>They did okay for aspiring cybersecurity pros who want to

535
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:07.960
<v Speaker 2>level up their leadership skills. Yeah. They offered a really

536
00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.759
<v Speaker 2>diverse range of books, okay, catering to different leadership styles

537
00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:12.440
<v Speaker 2>and interests.

538
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:14.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, like what kind of stuff?

539
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, some were business and leadership classics. Okay, you know,

540
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:21.359
<v Speaker 2>like Good to Great by Jim Collins, What Got You Here,

541
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:25.319
<v Speaker 2>Won't Get You There by Marshall Goldsmith, The Hard Thing

542
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:27.279
<v Speaker 2>About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz.

543
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Those are amazing books.

544
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:29.400
<v Speaker 2>They are.

545
00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:34.559
<v Speaker 1>They really offer timeless wisdom on building strong teams, making

546
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.119
<v Speaker 1>those tough decisions, navigating the challenges of leadership.

547
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Regardless of your industry.

548
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:42.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. What about books specifically focused on cybersecurity?

549
00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:45.599
<v Speaker 2>Of course did they recommend Some of the popular choices

550
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:52.160
<v Speaker 2>were Tribe of Packers, Naturally, Security Metrics Replacing Fear, Uncertainty,

551
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:57.200
<v Speaker 2>and Doubt by Andrew Jaquith. Okay, Applied Cryptography by Bruce Schneier.

552
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Those are must reads for anyone serious about cybersecurity.

553
00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:01.759
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

554
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:07.200
<v Speaker 1>What about books on communication, teamwork, decision making, you know,

555
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.599
<v Speaker 1>skills that are essential for effective leadership?

556
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:10.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh, they covered those two?

557
00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what did they say?

558
00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:15.759
<v Speaker 2>So? Some of their recommendations included Team of Teams by

559
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:20.359
<v Speaker 2>General Stanley McCrystal. Okay, Death by Meeting by Patrick LENCIONI. Yeah,

560
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:22.519
<v Speaker 2>Radical Candor by Kim Scott.

561
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:25.039
<v Speaker 1>Wow. What a treasure trove of reading material.

562
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:26.000
<v Speaker 2>It is quite the list.

563
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:28.039
<v Speaker 1>It's going to keep me busy for a while, it will.

564
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:31.400
<v Speaker 1>You know. It's inspiring to see how these leaders are

565
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.039
<v Speaker 1>not just experts in their field, but they're also really

566
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:39.279
<v Speaker 1>well rounded individuals. Yes, who value continuous learning and personal growth.

567
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:39.680
<v Speaker 2>You do.

568
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:42.519
<v Speaker 1>But I'm also curious what keeps them up at night?

569
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's a great question.

570
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.119
<v Speaker 1>What are their biggest concerns when it comes to cybersecurity?

571
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:50.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah they are, and they worry about the potential impact

572
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:55.240
<v Speaker 2>of a successful attack, you know, on their organization's reputation, finances,

573
00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:56.119
<v Speaker 2>and customer trust.

574
00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It's a heavy burden.

575
00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:02.440
<v Speaker 2>It is very yeah, for sure. So given all these challenges,

576
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:05.559
<v Speaker 2>the book also asked these leaders what they would change

577
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:09.000
<v Speaker 2>about cybersecurity leadership. Oh. Interesting, if they had a magic

578
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:12.000
<v Speaker 2>wand a magic wand what would they change? I like it.

579
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:15.839
<v Speaker 2>What are their big dreams for the future of cybersecurity leadership? Yeah?

580
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:16.640
<v Speaker 1>What did they say?

581
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:20.839
<v Speaker 2>Well, a common theme was this desire for greater alignment, okay,

582
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:24.759
<v Speaker 2>between security and business goals. You know, they want to

583
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:28.599
<v Speaker 2>move away from security being seen as just a roadblock

584
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:32.480
<v Speaker 2>and instead be viewed as a strategic partner. Yeah, that

585
00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:34.839
<v Speaker 2>helps enable business growth and innovation.

586
00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:37.519
<v Speaker 1>Makes sense because if security is just seen as a

587
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:41.920
<v Speaker 1>cost center or a compliance burden, it's always going to

588
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:42.680
<v Speaker 1>be an uphill battle.

589
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:44.119
<v Speaker 2>It's always going to be a struggle.

590
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:45.960
<v Speaker 1>To get the resources and the buy in that you

591
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:47.079
<v Speaker 1>need exactly.

592
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:49.640
<v Speaker 2>But if it's viewed as a key enablers, then it

593
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:54.039
<v Speaker 2>becomes a competitive advantage. Several leaders also expressed a desire

594
00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:59.200
<v Speaker 2>for a more proactive and preventative approach to cybersecurity.

595
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:01.680
<v Speaker 1>So instead of all always putting out those fires.

596
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:05.079
<v Speaker 2>Moving away from that reactive firefighting mentality that we see

597
00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:06.200
<v Speaker 2>so much of in the industry.

598
00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:09.000
<v Speaker 1>So they want to prevent the fires from even starting.

599
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:14.200
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and they recognize that this requires a different mindset,

600
00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:16.599
<v Speaker 2>different skills, and different investments.

601
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:17.200
<v Speaker 1>Makes sense.

602
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:20.839
<v Speaker 2>Another wish was for a greater investment in security awareness

603
00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:24.119
<v Speaker 2>and training. You know, they envision a world where everyone

604
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:28.079
<v Speaker 2>in the organization, from the CEO to the newest intern,

605
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:31.160
<v Speaker 2>understands their role in protecting the organization.

606
00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Wow. So it's really about creating that culture of security.

607
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, where it's not just the security team's job, but

608
00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:41.839
<v Speaker 2>everyone's responsibility to be vigilant and aware.

609
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:43.720
<v Speaker 1>And to understand the risks and how to mitigate them.

610
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. Yeah, there was also a strong desire for greater

611
00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:52.960
<v Speaker 2>diversity and inclusion in the cybersecurity workforce. Yeah, many leaders

612
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:56.880
<v Speaker 2>recognize that we need to attract and retain talent from

613
00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:59.200
<v Speaker 2>a wider range of backgrounds and experiences.

614
00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:01.319
<v Speaker 1>Diversity of thought is so important.

615
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.319
<v Speaker 2>It is especially in cybersecurity.

616
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:05.319
<v Speaker 1>Especially in this field where.

617
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:07.799
<v Speaker 2>You're constantly facing new threats and new challenges.

618
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:11.279
<v Speaker 1>Right, having those different perspectives and different approaches can only.

619
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Make you stronger, exactly. And finally, some leaders expressed a

620
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:19.519
<v Speaker 2>desire for a future where cybersecurity is simply baked in, okay,

621
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:21.119
<v Speaker 2>to every aspect of technology.

622
00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:24.240
<v Speaker 1>So you're saying they envision a world where security is

623
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:27.519
<v Speaker 1>just an integral part, a fundamental part of the design

624
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:28.759
<v Speaker 1>and development process.

625
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:31.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, not an afterthought, not a bolt on solution.

626
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Right, making it a fundamental principle that guides every aspect

627
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:35.799
<v Speaker 1>of our digital.

628
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.519
<v Speaker 2>Lives, just like safety is a fundamental principle in the

629
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:39.279
<v Speaker 2>physical world.

630
00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:42.480
<v Speaker 1>So these magic wand wishes, they really paint a picture,

631
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:46.519
<v Speaker 1>they do, of where these leaders see cybersecurity. Heading they do,

632
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:50.359
<v Speaker 1>But what about concrete advice for aspiring leaders?

633
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:51.400
<v Speaker 2>That's a good question.

634
00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:53.559
<v Speaker 1>What do they suggest for those who are looking to

635
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:56.160
<v Speaker 1>step into leadership roles in cybersecurity.

636
00:33:56.359 --> 00:33:58.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, they emphasize a lot of the things that we've

637
00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:01.880
<v Speaker 2>already talked about, continuous learning, staying ahead of the curve

638
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:06.720
<v Speaker 2>in this rapidly evolving field, developing both technical skills and

639
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:07.839
<v Speaker 2>leadership qualities.

640
00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.760
<v Speaker 1>So you're saying it's not enough to just be a

641
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:13.679
<v Speaker 1>technical expert, No, you also need to be able to

642
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:18.039
<v Speaker 1>lead people, communicate effectively, and make those strategic decisions.

643
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:22.400
<v Speaker 2>They also highlight the importance of building relationships, networking with

644
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.760
<v Speaker 2>other professionals, and seeking out mentors who can guide and

645
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:26.400
<v Speaker 2>support you.

646
00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:29.679
<v Speaker 1>Mentorship is so valuable. It is especially in a field

647
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:33.159
<v Speaker 1>like cybersecurity, where that experience is so hard.

648
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:36.280
<v Speaker 2>One exactly having someone to bounce ideas off of, to

649
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:39.559
<v Speaker 2>ask for advice, to learn from their mistakes, it's invaluable.

650
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:43.960
<v Speaker 1>And they encourage aspiring leaders to develop those strong communication skills, yes,

651
00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:48.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, learning to explain those complex technical concepts in

652
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:51.599
<v Speaker 1>a way that resonates with different audiences from executives to developers.

653
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, you know, as a leader, you're always going to

654
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:58.239
<v Speaker 2>be communicating in some way, whether it's presenting to the board,

655
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:02.559
<v Speaker 2>explaining a security incident your team, or advocating for resources.

656
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:04.159
<v Speaker 1>It's a big part of the job, it is.

657
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.840
<v Speaker 2>And finally, these leaders urge you to embrace the challenge

658
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:11.920
<v Speaker 2>of cybersecurity, okay, to see it not just as a job,

659
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:17.880
<v Speaker 2>but as a mission. Okay, to protect organizations, communities, our

660
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:18.840
<v Speaker 2>digital lives.

661
00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:21.480
<v Speaker 1>To find meaning and purpose in the work that you do.

662
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, knowing that you're making a real difference in a

663
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:27.559
<v Speaker 2>world that's increasingly reliant on technology.

664
00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.000
<v Speaker 1>And inspiring others to join you in that mission.

665
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, to build a more secure and resilient digital future

666
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:33.960
<v Speaker 2>for everyone.

667
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Wow, this has been a fantastic deep dive.

668
00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:37.159
<v Speaker 2>It has.

669
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:39.440
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I've gained so much from hearing these

670
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:43.840
<v Speaker 1>leaders insights and perspectives. It's really inspiring to see their passion,

671
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:47.920
<v Speaker 1>their commitment to excellence, and their unwavering belief in the

672
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:49.079
<v Speaker 1>importance of their work.

673
00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:52.360
<v Speaker 2>And what's so great about Tribe of Hackers Security Leaders

674
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:55.800
<v Speaker 2>is that it goes beyond just the technical aspects of cybersecurity,

675
00:35:55.960 --> 00:35:58.840
<v Speaker 2>and it really explores that human side of leadership. You know,

676
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:01.960
<v Speaker 2>it gives you a glimpse into the challenges, the triumphs,

677
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:05.159
<v Speaker 2>and the wisdom these leaders have gained from year's experience.

678
00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:09.239
<v Speaker 1>It really reminds you that behind every successful cybersecurity program,

679
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:13.199
<v Speaker 1>there's a team of dedicated and passionate individuals absolutely who

680
00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:15.960
<v Speaker 1>are committed to protecting their organizations and the people they serve.

681
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:19.079
<v Speaker 2>And this deep dive has been a call to action, Yes,

682
00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:23.960
<v Speaker 2>it has. Embrace the challenge, develop your skills, build relationships,

683
00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:27.280
<v Speaker 2>and strive to become the leaders the world needs in

684
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:29.159
<v Speaker 2>this critical and ever evolving field.

685
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Well said, So, if you're ready to dive deeper into

686
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:35.599
<v Speaker 1>these ideas and learn from the best, I highly recommend

687
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:39.639
<v Speaker 1>checking out tribe of hackers security leaders. It's a treasure

688
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:43.360
<v Speaker 1>trove of insights and inspiration for anyone who aspires to

689
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:46.079
<v Speaker 1>a leadership role in this exciting and challenging field.

690
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:49.320
<v Speaker 2>And as you continue on your own leadership journey, remember

691
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:53.760
<v Speaker 2>the advice of these incredible leaders. Stay curious, stay adaptable,

692
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:57.719
<v Speaker 2>stay connected, and never stop learning. The future of cybersecurity

693
00:36:57.760 --> 00:36:58.360
<v Speaker 2>depends on it.

694
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:00.719
<v Speaker 1>Well said, Thanks for joining us for this deep dive.

695
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Until next time, stay safe, stay secure, and keep on learning.