Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast.
Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer,
Speaker 2: and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my
Speaker 2: experience as the brother of a murder victim to help
Speaker 2: other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book
Speaker 2: on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co
Speaker 2: administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with
Speaker 2: Kristin Dilly.
Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly.
Speaker 4: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate,
Speaker 4: as well as the social media manager and co administrator
Speaker 4: for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner
Speaker 4: in crime.
Speaker 3: Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilly
Speaker 3: and I'm Bill Thomas, and we're joined today by one
Speaker 3: of our very favorite guests, author Ron Peterson Junior, here
Speaker 3: to talk to us about his fourth book, In the Wind,
Speaker 3: The Disappearance of Janice star Ron. Thank you for joining
Speaker 3: us today.
Speaker 5: Hi, Bill and Kristen. Great to be with you, and
Speaker 5: thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: We were laughing because we think you've been on Mind
Speaker 2: over Murder more than anybody.
Speaker 5: Wow, that is an honor. Sincerely, with some of the
Speaker 5: guests you've had, I feel very fortunate to have been
Speaker 5: on here for now fourth time.
Speaker 2: Well, it's always a great conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, run start by telling our listeners what you've been
Speaker 3: up to since you were last on. For your third book,
Speaker 3: Eyes of a Monster, which is about the Olivia Christian case.
Speaker 3: You've had quite a bit going on in that time.
Speaker 3: Tell us a little bit about it.
Speaker 5: So for the last year and a half, I've been
Speaker 5: working on my current book that comes out on July thirtieth,
Speaker 5: called In the Wind, and we'll talk a little bit
Speaker 5: more about that then. I've also got two film projects
Speaker 5: that are in the works and have been for a
Speaker 5: few years now. One is for my book Under the Trestle.
Speaker 5: It's a documentary film with McTavish Pictures, with Scott McTavish,
Speaker 5: who have been working with on that. He's done all
Speaker 5: the shooting and interviews documentary style and now is in
Speaker 5: post production and we're hoping certainly by the end of
Speaker 5: the year it will find its way to a streaming service.
Speaker 5: Then my other book, Chasing the Squirrel, which is about
Speaker 5: the Notoriou drugs Muggeler Wally Thrasher. It was a daredevil
Speaker 5: pilot who I was able to research and learn a
Speaker 5: lot about through a lot of his former acquaintances and friends.
Speaker 5: That book was acquired by Urban Legends Film Company in
Speaker 5: California and Los Angeles, and they also have been we've
Speaker 5: been working with them on that. His Introduction is a
Speaker 5: multi up episode television series. In fact, I'm going out
Speaker 5: to Los Angeles at the end of this month, at
Speaker 5: the end of August and take a look at some
Speaker 5: of the things they've put together there. Very excited about
Speaker 5: both of them, and when they finally do come together
Speaker 5: and hit the screen on a streaming service, it's going
Speaker 5: to be a great time.
Speaker 2: We've both worked on film and TV projects, and inevitably
Speaker 2: they seem to take way longer than you think they
Speaker 2: they do.
Speaker 5: I remember hearing about the series Queen's Gambit, which was fictional,
Speaker 5: but that it took I think it was twelve or
Speaker 5: fifteen years to finally make its way onto a screen
Speaker 5: with some real heavyweights working on it, and obviously just
Speaker 5: an incredible story. But that's an example of how long
Speaker 5: these things can take. Although certainly I don't expect it
Speaker 5: to take that long. You have to understand that.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is when we were talking off air a
Speaker 2: little bit about this, Kristen said she was really excited
Speaker 2: about Under the Trestle, which I am too, But then
Speaker 2: I have such a soft spot for a Wally Thrasher
Speaker 2: as this incredibly colorful smuggler pilot, crazy man. I'm really
Speaker 2: excited about Chasing the Squirrel too, and.
Speaker 5: I am as well. You know, you mentioned him. He
Speaker 5: was this. I never met him, of course, but have
Speaker 5: met his widow or ex wife, i should say, and
Speaker 5: his son, and he was this Burt Reynolds kind of character, charismatic.
Speaker 5: You think of Burt Reynolds and Smoky and the Bandit
Speaker 5: or something, and that's kind of character he was, and
Speaker 5: really had some incredible adventures and had nine lives like
Speaker 5: a cat, and judge it from some of the stories
Speaker 5: about him.
Speaker 3: It's going to be wonderful to eventually see both of
Speaker 3: those projects hit the screen, big or small. So I'm
Speaker 3: looking forward to both of those. I'm absolutely tickled to
Speaker 3: death that we were able to talk to you today
Speaker 3: about your brand new book In the Wind, which is
Speaker 3: about the disappearance of Janis Star, and I've read all
Speaker 3: your books. I've loved all your books, but honestly, I
Speaker 3: think this is right up there. I still think under
Speaker 3: the trustle Winds we're top one. But this is definitely
Speaker 3: like hard on its Heels number two. This is absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 3: I could not put it down for a minute. I
Speaker 3: absolutely loved it.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Kristin coming from you, that means an awful lot.
Speaker 5: That makes my day. Thanks.
Speaker 2: There you have it. I like it. Why don't you
Speaker 2: start ron by telling us a little bit about what
Speaker 2: in the Wind is about? Which is the victim in
Speaker 2: this case is Old Dominion University or ODU student Janis Starr?
Speaker 5: Yeah, as some of the listeners know, Old Dominion University
Speaker 5: is a college in Norfolk, Virginia. Back in nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 5: there was a student there, twenty three year old Janis Starr.
Speaker 5: She was a non traditional student. She was born and
Speaker 5: grew up part of the time in New York City,
Speaker 5: then moved with her family and her mother and stepfather.
Speaker 5: He was an insurance agent with Mutual of Omaha. They
Speaker 5: moved to Miami and she graduate from high school in Miami.
Speaker 5: This would have been in the late seventies. She joined
Speaker 5: the Army which was a non traditional thing for a
Speaker 5: woman to do. And she was a very attractive and
Speaker 5: certainly a feminine woman who surprised a lot of people
Speaker 5: when she joined the army, but wanted to serve her
Speaker 5: country and had some challenges in the army, I think,
Speaker 5: as any woman would have in a man's world and
Speaker 5: a male dominated type of environment. And after a three
Speaker 5: year service in the army, she was ready to get
Speaker 5: her college degree, and through an interesting set of circumstances,
Speaker 5: she settled in Norfolk, Virginia, going to Old Dominion University.
Speaker 5: The story really picks up right there with her time
Speaker 5: as a student. She was in the RTC pro there.
Speaker 5: Her plan was to graduate and become an officer, an
Speaker 5: army officer, having served there previously. She was also in
Speaker 5: the Army reserves because I said she was a non
Speaker 5: traditional student, and one day she in the fall of
Speaker 5: nineteen eighty one, she just disappeared. She stopped showing up
Speaker 5: for class, stopped coming to work. She lived in an
Speaker 5: off campus apartment. The first part of the book is
Speaker 5: about Janis's life, and then the story really gets going
Speaker 5: when a detective is assigned to work her case. Detective
Speaker 5: from Chesapeake Virginia. She lived right across the border in
Speaker 5: a apartment complex that was in Chesapeake, right near the
Speaker 5: Norfolk city line, so it was in the jurisdiction of
Speaker 5: Chesapeake Police. And the detective who was the lead investigator
Speaker 5: on her missing person case was named Kay Shucker. And
Speaker 5: Kay's story in and of herself, and then the book
Speaker 5: gets into Kay's background as well. Kay was the one
Speaker 5: who came to me with this story about two years ago.
Speaker 5: She's retired now, and Kay brought me a lot of
Speaker 5: the resources from the case file information and introduce me
Speaker 5: to a lot of the people who were involved on
Speaker 5: the law enforcement side. With her, I was able to
Speaker 5: put the story together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that the real heroine of the
Speaker 3: book is Detective Kay Shucker. I have decided that I
Speaker 3: want to grow up to be Detective Kay Shucker. And
Speaker 3: she's absolutely just the most amazing example of perseverance and
Speaker 3: grace under pressure. Here is a lady who met every
Speaker 3: single obstacle in her pursuit of justice for Janis Starr,
Speaker 3: and she still absolutely went out there and did everything
Speaker 3: that she could to make sure that this young woman's
Speaker 3: killer was caught. Obviously, we want people to read the book,
Speaker 3: So you're not going to give everything away, but can
Speaker 3: you tell us just a little bit about in her
Speaker 3: career and why she was so very much a first
Speaker 3: of her kind in the Chesapeake Police Department.
Speaker 5: She was indeed, she was a pioneer, and she was
Speaker 5: a badass in terms of the way she went about
Speaker 5: her job. Case story. She started work for the Chesapeake
Speaker 5: Police Department in the early mid nineteen seventies as in
Speaker 5: an administrative role, and she was a secretary for an
Speaker 5: officer and in the detective bureau, and then she worked
Speaker 5: away in a position as a dispatcher, which is right
Speaker 5: on the front line, and all along she developed more
Speaker 5: and more of an interest in being a police officer
Speaker 5: and ultimately a detective. She's the kind of person who
Speaker 5: has a great deal of empathy, really wanted to help people,
Speaker 5: and like the idea of being able to be with
Speaker 5: them in situations where bad things had happened and making
Speaker 5: those situations better. It was a lot of her motivation.
Speaker 5: So in the mid seventies, when she expressed her interest
Speaker 5: in moving into a police officer position in Chesapeake, she
Speaker 5: went to the human resources office and asked for an application,
Speaker 5: and she was told I'm sorry, but we don't hire
Speaker 5: women here.
Speaker 2: So wow, imagine how that this isn't that long ago.
Speaker 5: I know it is, It's in the full stories in
Speaker 5: the book, but I believe this was about nineteen seventy seven,
Speaker 5: I want to say. So. Yeah. She returned later and
Speaker 5: by then it met with an attorney who and was
Speaker 5: had a letter and was glad to let the Human
Speaker 5: Sources Office know that they could not discriminate against a
Speaker 5: woman in that way. So she got an application and
Speaker 5: then was brought on board. But first she had to
Speaker 5: make it through the training, which included an obstacle course
Speaker 5: similar to what you see the Navy Seals doing. In fact,
Speaker 5: it was at where the Navy Seals train in Norfolk.
Speaker 5: Kse short, just a little over a five feet tall,
Speaker 5: and they made it as difficult on her as they could.
Speaker 5: In fact, she had had to take the test on
Speaker 5: a rainy day to make it as difficult as possible.
Speaker 5: So the book gets into her challenges just to make
Speaker 5: it as a police officer, and then follows her along
Speaker 5: her journey in patrol. Some of the challenges seats she
Speaker 5: had there. And this was the time not only was
Speaker 5: their discrimination but harassment in the workplace was it was
Speaker 5: accepting when in a lot of environments it was encouraged.
Speaker 5: So there's a incident of her walking in uniform through
Speaker 5: the police station, and she was an attractive lady and
Speaker 5: one of her superior officers would make a habit of
Speaker 5: patting her on the rear end with his clipboard. So
Speaker 5: after a while she was able to put a stop
Speaker 5: to that. But that's an example the kind of humiliating
Speaker 5: things that would happen. Then I think about it through
Speaker 5: my own eyes. I've got my wife and daughter, are
Speaker 5: both career minded people, both strong women, and sometimes I
Speaker 5: shake my head the things they have to go through
Speaker 5: as women in the workplace. Certainly back in the nineteen
Speaker 5: seventies it was just a different world, and Kay was
Speaker 5: able to work her way up through that.
Speaker 2: Speaking of fighting, one of the things that's really that
Speaker 2: jumps out at you reading the book is Kay ends
Speaker 2: up having to fight against skepticism from the men that
Speaker 2: she's working with she's developing this case. And I don't
Speaker 2: think it gives anything away to say that a particular
Speaker 2: suspect rises to the top and he's really the only
Speaker 2: strong suspect they have. Is I could tell Why do
Speaker 2: you think the male detectives at Chesapeake were so skeptical
Speaker 2: They didn't seem to accept the idea that Janice had
Speaker 2: been murdered and that the man that she may have
Speaker 2: been involved in was her killer. Why do you think
Speaker 2: that happened.
Speaker 5: That's a great question, but goes back to when she
Speaker 5: started as a detective. And we're talking about Chesapeake, Virginia.
Speaker 5: This was back in a day where as we talked about,
Speaker 5: things were a lot different. And I should say now
Speaker 5: as a disclaimer, it's a great police force and they
Speaker 5: do wonderful things, have great people working there. But back
Speaker 5: then it seems the detective bureau was dominated by alpha males.
Speaker 5: When any police department, your best and brightest patrol officers
Speaker 5: eventually become detectives or they work in the investigations bureau,
Speaker 5: and then the best detectives were commicides. So that's Kay
Speaker 5: had worked her way up to that level. I think,
Speaker 5: first of all, there was some resentment for that police detectives,
Speaker 5: and in those is a big part of their job,
Speaker 5: and their motivation was being smarter than other people, certainly
Speaker 5: smarter than criminals, but also they took pride and their
Speaker 5: ability to do that with this case. For example, there
Speaker 5: was a diary to the Janis Star the missing person had,
Speaker 5: and some of the male detectives Kay had that in
Speaker 5: working the case, and then some of them were able
Speaker 5: to get a copy of it. In reading through it,
Speaker 5: like a lot of women would do, she was descriptive
Speaker 5: about some of the relationships she'd had with men. So
Speaker 5: they read it and came to believe that the reason
Speaker 5: she was missing was she had just dropped out of
Speaker 5: college and run off with some guy and moved away somewhere,
Speaker 5: that she was just that flaky personality, whereas Kay was.
Speaker 5: You can call it women's intuition. I think very often
Speaker 5: women are better at these kind of situations and understanding
Speaker 5: than men. She had a different read on the situation.
Speaker 5: But going back to your question, Bill, I think was
Speaker 5: also a case of a few of the male detectives
Speaker 5: that were working the case with her. And maybe I
Speaker 5: should back up and say, in most cities the size
Speaker 5: of Chesapeake, they're not big cities. When there's a homicide
Speaker 5: and there's not many homicides or murders, then all the
Speaker 5: detectives will work the case. There's one lead detective, But
Speaker 5: then you'll also have two or three others or more
Speaker 5: working with them. So that was the case with this
Speaker 5: Kay was the lead detective, and a lot of the
Speaker 5: male detectives that were supporting her and working with or
Speaker 5: had their own idea about what had happened, and they
Speaker 5: refused to acknowledge some of the things that turned up
Speaker 5: in the investigation. Instead of changing their mind and admitting
Speaker 5: I was wrong, they dug in even further and found
Speaker 5: other things to support their belief and it was very
Speaker 5: difficult for them to say they were wrong again. I
Speaker 5: think it goes back to them being alpha males.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were definitely instances when I was reading this
Speaker 3: and you were sharing the point of view of these
Speaker 3: alpha male detectives and times when they were being openly
Speaker 3: skeptical and sometimes even openly scornful. Okay, and I just
Speaker 3: had moments where I was like, I got to put
Speaker 3: this book down for a couple of minutes. I'm so mad.
Speaker 3: I want to reach out and slap this guy across
Speaker 3: the face. This is awful. I really liked the fact
Speaker 3: Ron that you did not shy away from pointing out
Speaker 3: when these male detectives were victim blaming and victim shaming
Speaker 3: because a lot of them really were reading into this
Speaker 3: situation that if she did disappear, she did get murdered,
Speaker 3: it was her fault, she was flaky, she got involved
Speaker 3: with the wrong guy, or whatever. I really liked the
Speaker 3: fact that you did not hesitate to point out they
Speaker 3: should not have said this was wrong. And I just
Speaker 3: I'm really thankful that you did that, because not a
Speaker 3: lot of authors would be that discerning and would be
Speaker 3: that careful, and would be that willing to say this
Speaker 3: was bad behavior. So I really appreciated that. Just coming
Speaker 3: from a woman's standpoint, I thought it was great that
Speaker 3: you did that. There was a ton of victim blaming
Speaker 3: and victim shaming. You think that has more to do
Speaker 3: with the time period, more to do with the detectives
Speaker 3: or the combination of the two.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it was the time period really, although
Speaker 5: the behavior of the detectives that's well documented and it
Speaker 5: shows up in the reports that I'm was privy too,
Speaker 5: But I think a lot of it did have to
Speaker 5: do with the time period, and there was a double standard.
Speaker 5: If we were talking about victims. If there was a
Speaker 5: female victim who dated a lot of men, you can
Speaker 5: imagine what she was thought of On the other hand,
Speaker 5: if there was a male victim who dated a lot
Speaker 5: of women, he was thought of as a playboy and
Speaker 5: as a good guy just out being a man. Right.
Speaker 5: I mentioned Janis's diary that plays a big part of it.
Speaker 5: Kay was able to get that. And then what played
Speaker 5: a big part in Kay becoming so interested and I'd
Speaker 5: even say obsessed with solving the case was as she
Speaker 5: read through Janis's diary, we went back for several years.
Speaker 5: She read about Janis's experience in the army as a
Speaker 5: woman trying to make it in a man's world, and
Speaker 5: then here was Kay and in the exact same shoes.
Speaker 5: Kay was also a strong woman trying to make it
Speaker 5: in the male world of law enforcement. So she felt
Speaker 5: a kinship with Janie and it made her want to
Speaker 5: solve the case even more. There's expression detectives used. It's old,
Speaker 5: but the uses to this day. They say, don't fall
Speaker 5: in love with a victim, and they don't mean in
Speaker 5: the romantic sense. They mean don't get too attached to
Speaker 5: the victim, and that you want justice for them so bad.
Speaker 5: It's just not a healthy thing. And I, you know,
Speaker 5: I think Kay said she became so obsessed with trying
Speaker 5: to solve the mystery and bring justice for Janie and
Speaker 5: her family, that it was a really difficult time for
Speaker 5: her at the time. The six monthster showed or so
Speaker 5: that Kay spent on this investigation.
Speaker 2: Did some of the male detectives that Kay worked with
Speaker 2: did they come around to her perspective? She had developed
Speaker 2: a suspect this Army Captain betting Field, and Kay was
Speaker 2: pretty certain that Bettingfield was responsible for Janis Starr's death.
Speaker 2: Did some of the other male detectives come around to
Speaker 2: her point of view?
Speaker 5: A few of them eventually did, but there were a
Speaker 5: few who never did. They went after the case was solved.
Speaker 5: They refused to acknowledge that they were wrong in their
Speaker 5: initial opinions. They just didn't talk about it. It was funny.
Speaker 5: They just didn't known up to their mistakes. There's a again,
Speaker 5: I won't I won't give a lot away about the ending.
Speaker 5: I have a bad habit of doing that, by the way,
Speaker 5: getting on a podcast, people eventually don't have to buy
Speaker 5: the book because I've told them the whole story. But so, yeah, Bill,
Speaker 5: I think it was a mixed bag and that some
Speaker 5: of them were like, wow, Kay, you were right all along,
Speaker 5: the others just never really talked about the case anymore.
Speaker 3: I was very interested in methodical way that Kay went
Speaker 3: about investigating and eventually solving the case. What would you
Speaker 3: say were the key components that contributed to her eventual
Speaker 3: success in cracking this case.
Speaker 5: I think it was good old fashioned, old school shoe
Speaker 5: leather and knocking on doors and talking to people. We
Speaker 5: all watch, you know, we watched crime dramas nowadays, whether
Speaker 5: it's CSI or Law and Order, and the case gets
Speaker 5: solved in an hour, and there's DNA in a fancy
Speaker 5: laboratory that tells exactly who the suspect is or who
Speaker 5: who did not commit the murder. Keep in mind, this
Speaker 5: takes place in nineteen eighty one, so there was no DNA,
Speaker 5: and forensic evidence was certainly not as far long as
Speaker 5: it is now. And I was very fortunate two of
Speaker 5: the forensics technicians who worked on the case. I got
Speaker 5: to spend a lot of time talking with them about it,
Speaker 5: Terry Riggs and al Burns, so they shared a lot
Speaker 5: about what they were able to ascertain. Really a case
Speaker 5: like this, forensics and technology was not a big help.
Speaker 5: It was more Kay, I mentioned it happened at Old
Speaker 5: Manion University ODU, and she pretty much camped out on
Speaker 5: the campus there and talked to everybody she could and
Speaker 5: made it clear that she was there available for them
Speaker 5: to talk to. And that was where her best leads
Speaker 5: and her best information came from, was just continuing to
Speaker 5: knock on doors and talk to people. And just as
Speaker 5: I said, good old fashioned shoe leather.
Speaker 2: What was Kay warned to go lightly in terms of
Speaker 2: investigating this potential suspect.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the suspect was an Old Dominion University professor named
Speaker 5: Dwight Bettingfield. He's a local boy, done good. He grew
Speaker 5: up in Norfolk, went to high school. There, had been
Speaker 5: active duty in the army. He was an Army captain
Speaker 5: to Stingish Service. Then when the job came open for
Speaker 5: odus al he's also to Old Dominion University graduate himself.
Speaker 5: And then when the job came over, came up as
Speaker 5: the number two guy in the ODU ROTC program. He
Speaker 5: had that job and he'd been in it for a
Speaker 5: few years there when Janis came along. He was really
Speaker 5: well thought of. There's pictures of him in the book
Speaker 5: and that I'll share on my social media. When the
Speaker 5: book comes out and on my website. He was a
Speaker 5: good looking guy, tall, square jaw, look every bit the
Speaker 5: part of an officer. He was married, had two kids.
Speaker 5: From the outside as his marriage looked picture perfect. So
Speaker 5: when he was first interviewed, it was an informational interview.
Speaker 5: There was a male detective or the key I keep
Speaker 5: saying mail detective. I'll just say another the detective who
Speaker 5: was along with Kay, who was a guy. As their
Speaker 5: interview in him, he sold the betting Field is a
Speaker 5: great guy. In fact, he's probably quite impressed with Dwight
Speaker 5: betting Field. And as Kay's talking to him and asking
Speaker 5: him questions, again, it's some of those probably women's intuition,
Speaker 5: so many of these nonverbal cues. I think a female
Speaker 5: detective sometimes is better at picking those up, and I
Speaker 5: think my wife is when we talk to people. But
Speaker 5: Kay picked up on some things that she thought were
Speaker 5: red flags. She brought him up with the other detective
Speaker 5: after the interview, and that what she was told was, Hey, Kay,
Speaker 5: you got to stop. You're looking too deeply into this.
Speaker 5: He's a great guy, he's an officer, almost to the
Speaker 5: point of don't you dare think of approaching him like
Speaker 5: a suspect. He's an officer, he's earned the right not
Speaker 5: to be viewed in that light. She refused, and even
Speaker 5: some of that advice to her came from her superiors,
Speaker 5: and she refused to follow that advice and kept digging
Speaker 5: at him and peeling away, and finally things started to
Speaker 5: develop in terms of Captain Dwight Bettingfield as a suspect
Speaker 5: as having something to do with Janis's disappearance.
Speaker 3: The red flag for me, and I didn't understand why
Speaker 3: the detectives other than KA who were working on this
Speaker 3: didn't see this as a giant red flag as well.
Speaker 3: The red flag for me was the life insurance policy
Speaker 3: that he had out on Janice with him as the beneficiary.
Speaker 3: I don't understand how that wasn't an absolutely massive red
Speaker 3: flag to anybody other than Kay. She actually showed it
Speaker 3: to people and they were like, Eh, don't worry about it.
Speaker 3: I was screaming, this is the biggest red flag I
Speaker 3: can think of. He's got a life insurance policy out
Speaker 3: on her, he's the beneficiary, and she's disappeared. How is
Speaker 3: this not a giant, screaming danger Will Robinson moment? Why
Speaker 3: do you think that the other detectives other than Kay
Speaker 3: who were looking at this didn't see that as an
Speaker 3: absolutely massive red flag.
Speaker 5: It sounds like something out of a B movie. Were
Speaker 5: certainly something that if it were fiction, a B author
Speaker 5: would write it and be like, oh, this is too
Speaker 5: far fetch.
Speaker 2: And the editor would take it out exactly.
Speaker 5: But it was, as I said, it was well documented.
Speaker 5: In fact, I saw a copy of the insurance policy
Speaker 5: and the way Bettingfield explained it, it really makes a
Speaker 5: lot of sense, and it gives you a little bit
Speaker 5: of insight into his personality. May not be a stretch
Speaker 5: to say he was a sociopath what he did. He
Speaker 5: was also Janis Starr's academic advisor. When those of us
Speaker 5: went to college, you can remember your academic advisor was
Speaker 5: someone you came to for advice, not only on what
Speaker 5: courses to take, but also sometimes in life and career
Speaker 5: and so forth. Certainly in a military environment a RTC program,
Speaker 5: he filled that role, so it wasn't uncommon students would
Speaker 5: come in to meet with him and he'd advised them
Speaker 5: on what courses they were taking and their progress toward
Speaker 5: their degree and their eventual career, but also if they
Speaker 5: had personal problems financially, he would steer them in the
Speaker 5: right direction. It might be, hey, you need to join
Speaker 5: this credit union, the fee aren't as high. They really
Speaker 5: look after service members or people in the military. Or
Speaker 5: you need to start saving more money. You're spending more
Speaker 5: than you're making now. With Janis, his advice to her
Speaker 5: was very specific. She came to him and there was
Speaker 5: some checks she was expecting from her Army Reserve duty
Speaker 5: that were late coming in because of her change of address.
Speaker 5: She was flat broke, so he loaned her money to
Speaker 5: get over that hump, which was a red flag. She
Speaker 5: paid him back and everything from a distance looked above board.
Speaker 5: But then he further gave her advice on He said, away,
Speaker 5: you can improve your credit, and it's a savvy financial move,
Speaker 5: and you're young, is for you to take out a
Speaker 5: life insurance policy. She never had life insurance and when
Speaker 5: twenty three years old probably doesn't think about it. But
Speaker 5: he explained it to her much as if he were
Speaker 5: a life insurance salesman, that it was a great move.
Speaker 5: He told her it was an investment. The type of
Speaker 5: policy she took out was considered an investment, and he
Speaker 5: told her it would also improve her credit. Rating, which
Speaker 5: I don't know if that was true or not, but
Speaker 5: she certainly believed that it was. So then he steared
Speaker 5: in the right direction on who to take out the
Speaker 5: insurance policy with one of the financial institutions that specializes
Speaker 5: in working with service members of USAA. So she did,
Speaker 5: and then she didn't want to have her parents in
Speaker 5: the loops. She didn't want them in her business. They'd
Speaker 5: be the natural beneficiary. So she asked him, I don't
Speaker 5: want to put my parents as a beneficiary. Who should
Speaker 5: I put? And very nonchalant, he said, oh, put my name.
Speaker 5: Nothing's going to ever happen to you. So he was
Speaker 5: the beneficiary of over three hundred thousand dollars worth of
Speaker 5: life insurance that Janis Star took out at his encouragement.
Speaker 5: The way he got her to do it was masterful.
Speaker 5: It was just master manipulation. And the book gets into
Speaker 5: that and you'd come to realize just how good he
Speaker 5: was at that. And Kay looked at that, and obviously
Speaker 5: for anyone, even any of us, we'd say, wow, there's
Speaker 5: your motive right there. So that was a big part
Speaker 5: of the book and was a big red flag for Kay.
Speaker 5: By the time the other detectives learned about that they
Speaker 5: were heavily invested in their own opinion and chose to
Speaker 5: believe that that was not a factor in genesis and demise.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back
Speaker 2: after this word from our sponsors. We're back here at
Speaker 2: mindover Murder. Before we get back to the podcast, just
Speaker 2: wanted to remind you that we have a go fundme
Speaker 2: effort going on right now. This campaign is designed to
Speaker 2: help us raise funds to help promote Mind over Murder
Speaker 2: and specifically to push the Colonial Parkway murders investigation forward.
Speaker 2: We'd love it if you could support us in any
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Speaker 2: be incredibly helpful. The link is in the show notes
Speaker 2: and in our social media pages. As always, thanks for
Speaker 2: your support. Now back to Mind over Murder. Let the
Speaker 2: record reflect that when you started talking about the life
Speaker 2: insurance policy, both of eyebrows shot up and you got
Speaker 2: to be hitting. It wasn't like that her parents would
Speaker 2: be the natural beneficiary of a life insurance policy. There's
Speaker 2: just something about the fact that he managed to talk
Speaker 2: her into buying life insurance as a young person and
Speaker 2: making him the beneficiary. That is just so bizarre.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it makes you shake your head. You think,
Speaker 5: I don't want to use the word gullible, but that
Speaker 5: she was that vulnerable that she'd do it Like any predator,
Speaker 5: I guess he could see she was at a vulnerable
Speaker 5: point in her life. Side note is the book gets
Speaker 5: into this she'd also been in a relationship with a
Speaker 5: man who she thought she was probably gonna marry and
Speaker 5: had broken up with him. So she was pretty vulnerable emotionally,
Speaker 5: I think, and probably not looking at it the way
Speaker 5: she needed to. But I do think that it's hard
Speaker 5: to believe someone would actually go for that. I think
Speaker 5: the way he sold it to her and positioned it
Speaker 5: was just on his end. It was just masterful on
Speaker 5: the way he did it.
Speaker 3: And you definitely get in too in other parts of
Speaker 3: the book, which again I'm not going to spoil because
Speaker 3: we want people to buy the book, you really do
Speaker 3: get this since this guy was a predator and had
Speaker 3: been doing this for quite a while, not just with Jennie.
Speaker 3: So I absolutely was appalled the whole entire way through
Speaker 3: reading about this guy. He really does seem you use
Speaker 3: the word sociopath ron, he really does seem like a
Speaker 3: textbook sociopath. And I felt awful for for not just Janis,
Speaker 3: but for everyone else that he victimized.
Speaker 5: Yes, indeed, I talk about the unlikely story and if
Speaker 5: it was fiction and someone wrote it, you think, wow,
Speaker 5: this is a little bit too far fetch. What eventually
Speaker 5: happens to him in the book is really really hard
Speaker 5: to believe. And all I'll say, we get into it
Speaker 5: more if you guys want to, but all it involves
Speaker 5: an airplane.
Speaker 3: So so yeah, that was one of those things where
Speaker 3: by the time I got to it, I was like,
Speaker 3: there's absolutely no way. There's no way that this is
Speaker 3: going to end the way that I think it did,
Speaker 3: and that he did. This has bananas. It is larger
Speaker 3: than it is, large than life. It is Hollywood movie.
Speaker 3: It would give Double Indemnity a run for its money.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it would, indeed. Yeah, And I was fortunate. It's
Speaker 5: also well documented in the case file that it was
Speaker 5: very interesting to write about and see how it was
Speaker 5: all supported with police reports.
Speaker 2: The thing that's really striking is those cliches about truth
Speaker 2: being stranger than fiction. This was unbelievable that as the
Speaker 2: story unfolds, the twists and turns are really shocking. And
Speaker 2: yet you're not making this up. This isn't a work
Speaker 2: of fiction by Ron Peterson. This is a true crime story.
Speaker 5: Indeed. Yeah, I've been very fortunate. After my first book,
Speaker 5: I've had probably about once a month or more, someone
Speaker 5: will come to me. They're usually retired law enforcement, either
Speaker 5: a detective or sometimes someone who worked even a federal
Speaker 5: agent in some federal law enforcement capacity. They'll come to
Speaker 5: me and say, Hey, worked in law enforcement for thirty
Speaker 5: forty years and there's this one case that I worked.
Speaker 5: It's the craziest case you've ever heard about. If you haven't, meant,
Speaker 5: I'd like to tell you about it. So some of
Speaker 5: these stories I hear incredible, and fortunately I've been able
Speaker 5: to pick and choose the best, most interesting cases to
Speaker 5: write about. And this one from k certainly within ten
Speaker 5: minutes of talking to her, I was like, Wow, you
Speaker 5: know this is my next book.
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of what was the media coverage of this
Speaker 2: case like back in nineteen eighty one, was this the
Speaker 2: kind of media sensation that the Colonial Parkway murders were about?
Speaker 2: Five years later, in nineteen eighty six. What kind of
Speaker 2: newspaper or another coverage did her disappearance and untimely death
Speaker 2: received back in eighty one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, good question, Bill. I looked back at the newspaper
Speaker 5: archives and then also some of the archival footage at
Speaker 5: television stations, one of which was WAYYTV ten. For a
Speaker 5: period of about a week, it was the lead story
Speaker 5: when Janis disappeared. It was in the news, but probably
Speaker 5: not as much as you would have expected or would
Speaker 5: have hoped. The fact was a young person, a college student.
Speaker 5: It was not unusual for a college student just to
Speaker 5: take off and go somewhere else. So the media covered
Speaker 5: her disappearance. It wasn't front page news. Let's just say
Speaker 5: it led the local news for a while, and it
Speaker 5: was not featured even on television news. As the story
Speaker 5: advanced and then a few sensational events happened, you know,
Speaker 5: later on in the story, it was a lead story
Speaker 5: on all the local television stations. It was the front
Speaker 5: page of the local newspaper's Virginia Pilot and Daily Press. Then. Also,
Speaker 5: this was before the national television news like CNN or
Speaker 5: MSNBC or Fox News. It was picked up by the
Speaker 5: ap and UPI news wires. So the story got a
Speaker 5: lot of legs for about a week on the national level.
Speaker 5: It was quite sensational for some of the reasons we've
Speaker 5: talked about, and.
Speaker 3: Yes, run for three of your books, you've covered the
Speaker 3: cases of murdered young women Gina, Rene Hall, Olivia Christian
Speaker 3: and Janis Starr. What is it about all of those
Speaker 3: cases that spoke to you or compelled you to write
Speaker 3: about them?
Speaker 5: In all three, the victim is someone who your heart
Speaker 5: really goes out to. They were all three great people
Speaker 5: that the world would have been a better place that
Speaker 5: they were still around. I don't know. Maybe part of
Speaker 5: it has to do with sometimes with true crime, you
Speaker 5: think emotionally if you can put yourselves in people's shoes
Speaker 5: and just think how terrible that would be. To some degree,
Speaker 5: I would from time to time do that as I
Speaker 5: thought about the parents or that person's loved ones. But yeah, there,
Speaker 5: and I think it just happened to be three very
Speaker 5: compelling missing person cases or murder cases that turned into that.
Speaker 5: But certainly when another fact, and it was true with these,
Speaker 5: is that when a woman disappears or is murdered, the
Speaker 5: suspect is usually someone close to them, and the vast
Speaker 5: majority of times it's a male that committed that violence.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure if that answers your question. And all
Speaker 5: these stories are all three of these that you mentioned.
Speaker 5: I did certainly had a soft spot for the victim
Speaker 5: and the kind of people that they were.
Speaker 2: How did you meet pay and how did the story
Speaker 2: move on to your radar as a writer?
Speaker 5: Kay? For quite some time. She first she tried to
Speaker 5: tried to write a book on her own and found
Speaker 5: that to be a challenge. I think, as most people do,
Speaker 5: as I did for many years before I got my
Speaker 5: first book published. Then she pursued having someone ghost write
Speaker 5: the book for her and that didn't work out. Then
Speaker 5: there was an attorney involved in this case who you'll
Speaker 5: read about in the book, who went on to become
Speaker 5: a Chestbeake Circuit Court judge. His name is John Brown.
Speaker 5: He had read one of my books and suggested to
Speaker 5: Kay that she contacted me. He said, Hey, this guy
Speaker 5: he writes about true crime, specializes in cases in Virginia.
Speaker 5: And Kay contacted me actually on social media and said
Speaker 5: she'd like to chat a little bit. And then when
Speaker 5: she did her story, the story was just incredible. This
Speaker 5: is an interesting thing, but a lot of people in
Speaker 5: law enforcement who are detectives or investigators, when they retire,
Speaker 5: they make copies of that one case that stuck with them.
Speaker 5: Sometimes it's a closed k or other times it's still
Speaker 5: an open case. They'll bring those documents with them and
Speaker 5: think about the case a lot, or even work on
Speaker 5: it some or look back and review it and think
Speaker 5: about what they could have done differently. And in this case,
Speaker 5: Kay had a lot of those case documents. There's a
Speaker 5: few police interviews of betting Field where I was able
Speaker 5: to have the transcript and work with that. There are
Speaker 5: crime scene photos I was able to use as I
Speaker 5: wrote about it, to Janice's apartment, and then some of
Speaker 5: the forensic reports, and then also even things like search
Speaker 5: warrants they used to search his apartment. One quick story
Speaker 5: that's in the book, when as Bettingfield becomes a suspect,
Speaker 5: they're able to obtain a search warrant for his apartment
Speaker 5: where he lives. At this point in the book, he's
Speaker 5: moved out from his wife and kids and living on
Speaker 5: his own in an apartment. Kay and a few uniformed
Speaker 5: officers are executing the search warrant, going through his apartment
Speaker 5: looking for anything of evidentiary value, and Kay's asked him
Speaker 5: questions and he says, I'm going to hire an attorney.
Speaker 5: Kay steps close to him and looks and right in
Speaker 5: the eye and says, Okay, you better hire a good attorney, Dwight,
Speaker 5: because I've got you by the short.
Speaker 2: Wow, she's so cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that asking you to pick a
Speaker 3: favorite of your own books is asking you to pick
Speaker 3: a favorite child. And of course we know that's impossible.
Speaker 3: So I guess rather than ask about your favorite, I
Speaker 3: would say, which one has moved you or touched you
Speaker 3: the most. What's the one that's going to live with
Speaker 3: you for the rest of your days?
Speaker 5: I would say, right now, it's this book in the Wind,
Speaker 5: because it's the most recent and still something about being
Speaker 5: the most recent, so it's still pretty fresh. But I
Speaker 5: think sometime from now to look back. The first book
Speaker 5: I wrote under the Trestle about the Gina Hall case,
Speaker 5: someone where her killer was convicted of murder. He's been
Speaker 5: in prison now for forty four years. But there's still
Speaker 5: an unsolved element to that case, and that Gina Hall's
Speaker 5: remains have not been discovered. Just the fact that case
Speaker 5: does not have resolution. I wouldn't say closure because Bill,
Speaker 5: I'm sure is from your situation. Closure is not a
Speaker 5: thing that happens in these cases. Just because the there's
Speaker 5: no resolution in that case, and it's still an open case.
Speaker 5: The Virginia State Police Special Agent is still working on it.
Speaker 5: That's one that will stick with me, and certainly more
Speaker 5: of a rabbit hole than the other books I've written.
Speaker 2: Did you ever pursue a meeting with the killer in
Speaker 2: the Under the Trestle case?
Speaker 5: I did? I sure did, yes, Steve Epperley. He's now
Speaker 5: in Buckingham Prison, the west of Richmond. When I was
Speaker 5: writing the book, protocol is if you want to communicate
Speaker 5: with any inmates in the Virginia Department of Corrections, you
Speaker 5: have to send them a letter on eight and a
Speaker 5: half eleven paper. So I sent him a letter, explained
Speaker 5: I was writing a book, said hey, I'd like for
Speaker 5: you to tell your story, or tell your side of
Speaker 5: the story. I'm happy to write a chapter about any
Speaker 5: alternate theories you have, or alternate suspects or reasons why
Speaker 5: you claim to be innocent. And I didn't hear from them.
Speaker 5: And then I sent him another letter and then was
Speaker 5: able to verify that he did receive the letter, so
Speaker 5: I just didn't hear from him. Then I was in
Speaker 5: communication with one of his sisters and she told me
Speaker 5: very candidly, yeah, he got letter and he doesn't want
Speaker 5: to talk to you, And I said, okay. Then later
Speaker 5: after my book came out, I heard from a correctional
Speaker 5: officer that he said that he had said many times
Speaker 5: over the years in prison that the only one who
Speaker 5: was the only one who was good enough to write
Speaker 5: his story was John Grisham.
Speaker 2: So not too much ego tied up in that.
Speaker 5: Right, He's a bit narcissistic. So again that, Yeah, that
Speaker 5: was Steve Epperley, who was convicted in the murder of
Speaker 5: Gina in a hall back in nineteen eighty And you
Speaker 5: think of that guy, forty four years he's been in prison.
Speaker 5: I guess the latest wrinkle on that case is that
Speaker 5: he came up for parole again. I did some research
Speaker 5: with about the Virginia Parole Board. Five members of the
Speaker 5: parole Board, and they've tends to change with each governor
Speaker 5: we have in Virginia that are one term governors. His
Speaker 5: parole has been denied every time, So that's in the
Speaker 5: eyes of most everyone who's followed that case and myself.
Speaker 5: That's a good thing that I think there's only one
Speaker 5: way he'lle that leave prison, and that would be in
Speaker 5: a pine box. That seems to be what everyone thinks good.
Speaker 2: Is there any role for yourself as a writer and
Speaker 2: a journalist and a member of the public. Those hearings
Speaker 2: are not open to the public.
Speaker 5: I assume they are not. You're exactly right, Bill, and
Speaker 5: I've learned a lot about him, of course, the family
Speaker 5: and people that are advocates of him not getting parole,
Speaker 5: like the current Commonwealth attorney in the past Commonwealth Attorney
Speaker 5: of Pulaski County where the case happens, they have a
Speaker 5: hearing of their own. Usually that's via zoom or teleconference
Speaker 5: with a Virginia Parole Board where they tell all the
Speaker 5: reasons why he should not be paroled and then yeah,
Speaker 5: his parole hearing. It is a private hearing, typically is
Speaker 5: I understand he only meets with one member of the
Speaker 5: parole board and then that one member brings his information
Speaker 5: and his answers back to the rest of them and
Speaker 5: then they vote. And that's typically the way they do businesses.
Speaker 5: I understand there if not for this time, then some
Speaker 5: of his parole hearings in the past. Thing I look
Speaker 5: at it, he's never never admitted he killed Gina Hall,
Speaker 5: never expressed any remorse, says he's innocent, says he was framed.
Speaker 5: He continues to say that in his parole hearings. The
Speaker 5: way anyone can be paroled is to have been rehabilitated,
Speaker 5: and it's clear that he hasn't. He's continued to tell
Speaker 5: that lie. I think he's gotten to the point of
Speaker 5: no return and that he's told it so long he
Speaker 5: can't go back on it. That if you look back,
Speaker 5: and it's quite possible, maybe probable, that if early on,
Speaker 5: if he'd have told where Gina Hall's remains were and
Speaker 5: admitted it, said the circumstances around it, and expressed his remorse,
Speaker 5: he would have probably been paroled. So the ironic thing
Speaker 5: is that he hid her body so well, that's the
Speaker 5: reason why he's not being paroled. So it's interesting the
Speaker 5: way that has played out all these years later. Ron.
Speaker 3: Before we finish up, you have a brand new podcast
Speaker 3: called Vanished in Virginia, and we would love for you
Speaker 3: to tell our listeners all about it so they can
Speaker 3: add it to their own list of podcasts that they
Speaker 3: need to tune into. So tell us about Vanished in Virginia.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so for years, I've listened to you guys for
Speaker 5: years and for five years now, and then other podcasts
Speaker 5: as well, true in the true crime genre, and been
Speaker 5: told by a lot of people that you know, that
Speaker 5: I should do a podcast. My books were certainly good
Speaker 5: material for that. So it's called Vanished in Virginia and
Speaker 5: it will specialize on missing person cases and murder cases
Speaker 5: that happened in Virginia. I'm starting with the ones that
Speaker 5: were covered in my books. So right now, the first
Speaker 5: four episodes I've done are on the Gina Hall case,
Speaker 5: the nineteen to eighty disappearance of Radford University student Gina Hall.
Speaker 5: So I'm going through that telling the story. What I
Speaker 5: think is going to make my podcast a lot different
Speaker 5: is that I've been able to have on the people
Speaker 5: as guests who actually worked the case. So either I
Speaker 5: have them on as a guest, or I play sound
Speaker 5: bites from the interviews I've done with them or interviews
Speaker 5: they've done with other people. You hear about the story
Speaker 5: from their point of view, and then even brought into
Speaker 5: some of the witnesses and some of the people knew
Speaker 5: the victim, who knew the killer. And I've got for
Speaker 5: my first season, I've got about eight cases I'm going
Speaker 5: to cover and probably spend a few episodes on each.
Speaker 5: I'm having a good time with it. It's done well,
Speaker 5: it's growing growing fast, and it's more of a time
Speaker 5: commitment than I thought. I'm sure as you here we
Speaker 5: are at seven o'clock at night. At seven o'clock at night,
Speaker 5: I know you guys are probably gonna have to microwave
Speaker 5: your dinner here eventually. But I'm enjoying it a lot.
Speaker 5: And it's a great way to grow my brand and
Speaker 5: increase the exposure for my books. So yeah, I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 5: Thanks for letting me mention it, Kristen. So it's available
Speaker 5: on all podcast platforms and it's called Vanished in Virginia.
Speaker 5: But yeah, thanks, And I've learned a lot from you
Speaker 5: guys over the years. Bill was the one who helped
Speaker 5: me get set up with this, told me what equipment
Speaker 5: to buy and what kind of microphone to buy. My
Speaker 5: voice does not sound as good as Bill's, but it
Speaker 5: sounds as good as I can.
Speaker 2: Dare we ask what's new for you in terms of
Speaker 2: your next project. I know you've got a brand new
Speaker 2: book to promote within the Wind. Have you started thinking
Speaker 2: about what you want to write about next? When the
Speaker 2: wheel turns to that point?
Speaker 5: I sure have, Yeah, I got. I've got a good
Speaker 5: two or three months to promote this book in the Wind.
Speaker 5: It was very fortunate. I have a new publisher who
Speaker 5: picked up the book Posthill Press, and the book is
Speaker 5: distributed by Simon and Schuster, who you guys probably know
Speaker 5: is one of the one of the biggest names in
Speaker 5: publishing and book distribution. So my book will have This
Speaker 5: book will have a lot more exposure, you know, nationally
Speaker 5: in bookstores where it hasn't before. So I'm going on
Speaker 5: a book tour that will take me some places outside Virginia,
Speaker 5: which will be exciting to give it talks. Generally, I
Speaker 5: speak at colleges and universities about these cases and you know,
Speaker 5: try to make them educational for someone who might be
Speaker 5: a criminal justice student there. So I do that, and
Speaker 5: then along the way promote the book and books are
Speaker 5: sold at those events, and then also libraries, a lot
Speaker 5: of library systems will bring in authors. So I've got
Speaker 5: several talks to promote that, and then your independent bookstores,
Speaker 5: which I always like to see people promote, and then
Speaker 5: also Barnes and Noble's quite a few book signings at
Speaker 5: the Barnes and Nobles and Virginia and other states. And
Speaker 5: I'm going to the end of August going to la
Speaker 5: got some interest in this book as a standalone episode
Speaker 5: in on one of the true crime networks. I'll be
Speaker 5: talking about that out there, and then as I said,
Speaker 5: working with the guy doing or the company doing a
Speaker 5: documentary adaptation of my book Chasing the Squirrel, and then
Speaker 5: also some promotional events out there. Right now, I'm hoping
Speaker 5: this comes through, but it would be an event where
Speaker 5: it kind of co hosted where I do a book
Speaker 5: talk with along with Jillian Lauren, who you guys had
Speaker 5: on your show. Yeah, okay, who has a big deal
Speaker 5: in the true crime space and she's out of Los
Speaker 5: Angeles now. Among other things she does that are awesome,
Speaker 5: she's married to the bass player from Weezer.
Speaker 3: That's right, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but has written two books that are just incredible
Speaker 5: as when has without getting too much into it, just
Speaker 5: has an incredible story. But anyway, we're working toward an
Speaker 5: event that I hope comes together that would be there
Speaker 5: in LA with her as the headliners and me tagging
Speaker 5: along hopefully.
Speaker 3: That's fantastic. You've got everything's coming up. Roses here for you.
Speaker 5: Thank you, and then Bill, you'd asked as far as books,
Speaker 5: what's next. There was the state prosecutor Phil Fagura, who
Speaker 5: prosecuted the case in my last book, Eyes of a Monster.
Speaker 5: He worked out of the Attorney General's office and was
Speaker 5: a special prosecutor for localities where where they had hard
Speaker 5: to prosecute murder cases. So I'm going to work with
Speaker 5: him on a case that he prosecuted, and Stanton it
Speaker 5: was a nobody murder. This one was not a young girl.
Speaker 5: It was a murder of a man who disappeared and
Speaker 5: is probably the oldest coldest nobody murder case ever prosecuted.
Speaker 5: So I'll have that. A guy went missing in nineteen
Speaker 5: eighty three and was never seen. He was engaged to
Speaker 5: be married on a Saturday, disappeared on the Thursday before.
Speaker 5: His name was the pet Miller. There was always a
Speaker 5: suspect in that case. It was his bride to be stepfather,
Speaker 5: the guy named Charlie Almond, who was never due auto
Speaker 5: repair guy, and the local prosecutor could never make a
Speaker 5: case against him. Four decades goes by, and then in
Speaker 5: twenty fifteen, Phil Figura is asked to come and prosecute
Speaker 5: this guy, who by then is well in his seventies.
Speaker 5: Phil agrees to do it and sets out to get
Speaker 5: a conviction and the one of the oldest, coldest nobody
Speaker 5: murder cases that had ever been prosecuted.
Speaker 2: That sounds like an amazing story. And Kristin and I
Speaker 2: don't think we've ever met Phil Forgera, but we've heard
Speaker 2: amazing things about him from other people in law enforcement.
Speaker 5: Yes, indeed, And then become full circle here. We haven't
Speaker 5: talked about the Colonial Parkway murders, and like so many
Speaker 5: of your listeners, I follow those closely and really admire
Speaker 5: the work you two have done as advocates for that case.
Speaker 5: But Phil Figura, as a prosecutor, worked with was the
Speaker 5: FBI case agent on the Colonial Parkway murders, but he
Speaker 5: worked with her in prosecuting the Olivia Christian case that
Speaker 5: I wrote about in my last book. So yeah, So
Speaker 5: it's just an incredible prosecutor and one of the most
Speaker 5: modest guys you'd ever meet. He's really impressive.
Speaker 3: This is a pla pleasure as always. I love the book.
Speaker 3: It is truly phenomenal, and I am so looking forward
Speaker 3: to spending a little bit of time hanging out with
Speaker 3: k Shucker, who, like I said, I would like to
Speaker 3: grow up to be. And it's always a pleasure of
Speaker 3: having you on the pod. So thank you for joining
Speaker 3: us as always.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Kristin, and thank you Bill. And I really
Speaker 5: appreciate all you've done for me over the years. You've
Speaker 5: really really helped support my writing, so I'm very grateful
Speaker 5: for that and I'll continue to enjoy your podcast.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: And where can everybody find the book?
Speaker 5: Yeah, the book's available now for pre order. It's released
Speaker 5: on July thirtieth, which at this recording is less than
Speaker 5: a week away Tuesday, July thirtieth. It's available at independent bookstores,
Speaker 5: on Amazon, at Barnes and Noble, and anywhere you buy books.
Speaker 5: It's available in paperback, kindle ebook, and then also on
Speaker 5: audible audiobook.
Speaker 3: All right, the book is in the Wind The Disappearance
Speaker 3: of Janis Star fourth and hopefully not the last. Ron
Speaker 3: Peterson Jr. Ron, thank you so much for joining us. Today.
Speaker 3: We really appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Kristin, Thank you Bill. I have a great
Speaker 5: rest of the summer.
Speaker 3: Thank you. That's going to do it for this episode
Speaker 3: of mind Over Murder. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 3: We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and
Speaker 1: Another Dog Productions.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley.
Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois.
Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud.
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media.
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Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway
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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murderer.
Speaker 3: About consu