WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:09.800 Oh, folks, it show die. People say good money to 2 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:10.599 see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.560 When they go out to a theater, they are cold sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:15.960 hot popcorn in no monsters. 5 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:19.199 In the protection booth, everyone for tend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:42.960 St it off. 7 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:49.520 It looked calmless enough. That's a professional models album of poses. Yep, 8 00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:54.119 this was the glamorous pitfall where they look the most seductive. 9 00:00:54.200 --> 00:01:00.000 Forses of email, violent jealousy. 10 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:02.719 I like that. I don't care what you like or 11 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:03.399 what you don't like. 12 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:08.280 Torments of unfaithfulness. 13 00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:10.640 I met her a couple of months ago. 14 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:11.400 While I was on a case. 15 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:15.840 What about these kids? Somebody told him a lot of 16 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:17.359 things about her and me? 17 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:20.799 Are they true? 18 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:22.879 Yes? 19 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:28.400 Then I must hate. 20 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:33.159 Urraging theory of a guilty conscience. 21 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:42.040 You'd better call the police. 22 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:44.040 I just killed a man. 23 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.080 Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White. 24 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:28.919 Joining me once again is mister Ian Burnell. Hello, friend, 25 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:32.599 also back in the booth as mister Philip Marinello. 26 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:34.879 What do you say we hang up this call and 27 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:36.400 take a drive to South America. 28 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:40.520 We are kicking off November twenty twenty four with a 29 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:44.639 look at Andre Detat's Pitfall, released in nineteen forty eight. 30 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.240 The film stars Dick Powell as John Forbes, an insurance 31 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:51.919 man who is leading a life of quiet desperation. He's 32 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.520 tired of getting dropped off at work by his wife 33 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:58.759 Jane Wyatt as Sue Forbes, and being humiliated by his son. 34 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:02.520 When he gets onto the case of Bill Smiley, who 35 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:05.439 embezzled some dough to impress a dame, he sees a 36 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.360 chance to have an adventure. We'll be talking about that 37 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:12.080 Dame Mona Stevens played by Elizabeth Scott, and the heavy 38 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.960 who menaces them JB McDonald played by Raymond Burr, as 39 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:18.360 well as spoiling the movie as we go along. So 40 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:20.680 if you don't want anything ruined, go track down that 41 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:24.080 movie right now. It's even available over on archive dot 42 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:27.919 org as a colorized version which should be taken out 43 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:31.960 and shot. So Ian, when was the first time you 44 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:34.000 saw Pitfall? And what did you think? 45 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:34.240 Sir? 46 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:37.879 I love film noir and I've been watching film noir 47 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:41.800 double features for the last four decades at the Brattle 48 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:44.039 Theater in Cambridge, mass which is the cinema where I 49 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:47.759 do my regular podcast, and they've been running week long, 50 00:03:48.039 --> 00:03:52.599 month long summer long noir programs for longer than I've 51 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:56.960 been alive, often in conjunction with Eddie Muller, Foster Brooks 52 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.599 and other noir writers or members of the film noir 53 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.520 found day. But the thing about film noir is that 54 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:07.120 they share a lot of similar themes and plots and actors, 55 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:10.680 and they tend to have interchangeable titles unless we're talking about, 56 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:14.560 you know, the Maltese Falcon or Double Indemnity. So often 57 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:16.839 when I settle in to watch what I think is 58 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:19.360 going to be a film I've never seen before, based 59 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:21.639 on the title and the cast, and maybe like a 60 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:25.120 one sentence synopsis in the Brattle calendar, I often find 61 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:29.439 myself realizing, Oh, I've seen this movie before, maybe in 62 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:32.480 the back end of a double bill, like fifteen years ago, 63 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:35.639 though frequently that doesn't really happen until like twenty or 64 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:39.279 thirty minutes into the picture. This was the opposite of 65 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:42.800 that scenario. I settled in to give this movie another look, 66 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:45.480 and a little way in I realized I had never 67 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:48.439 seen this movie before. I was confusing it with another 68 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:51.480 nineteen forty eight noir with Raymond Burr as a sadistic, 69 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:55.839 heavy Anthony man's raw deal. So this ended up being 70 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:57.600 a first time watch for me. I ran it a 71 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:01.279 few months ago off the just Crappy the SD copy 72 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:03.920 that's streaming on Amazon Prime, and then I watched it 73 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:07.759 a second time off the restored Keino Blu ray. But 74 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:11.000 I love the film. I love how straightforward and almost 75 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:14.519 ordinary it is. There are not a lot of convoluted 76 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:17.839 twists and turns, and even the dialogue is very matter 77 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.120 of fact. It's not the kind of coded, double entendre 78 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:23.439 laden dialogue that we think of when we think of 79 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:25.199 film noir, which is one of the things we love 80 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:28.800 about film noir obviously, but this is the refreshingly mature 81 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:33.079 and direct movie about fairly ordinary folks who just make 82 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:35.560 a couple of bad decisions and then try to deal 83 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:36.319 with them. 84 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:38.160 It Philip out about yourself. 85 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:41.000 This has been on my radar for a while. I've 86 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.920 seen some people talk about it. It's on my list 87 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.560 of Keino Blu rays to pick up on sales eventually. 88 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:48.560 But I yeah, this was also one for me that 89 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.079 I had not watched before. I was familiar with a 90 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.240 lot of the people involved, but yeah, earlier this week 91 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:56.079 was my first watch, and then I watched it again 92 00:05:56.120 --> 00:06:01.800 today and I exactly on the pages Ian my first 93 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:05.879 UH letterbox one sentence review was just how powerful this 94 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:09.519 was in its simplicity. Like I love all of the 95 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:11.879 noir tropes. I've been watching noir for quite a long 96 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:14.439 time as well, and mar was kind of like my 97 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:18.839 gateway to UH being like the next level of my 98 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:21.399 cinema journey. And I think one of the like I've 99 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:23.240 done Norvember before, but I think I've done a few 100 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:25.120 Noir's just one off with you here and there, and 101 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.439 it's something that is always very captivating. But something like 102 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:33.680 this is just as exciting because it does the things 103 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:38.040 that film noir does so well, while also whether it's 104 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:40.439 intentional or not, subverting a lot of the things that 105 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:42.839 you expect, and it it felt so refreshing. 106 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:47.160 So I came to this one through Quentin Tarantino, of 107 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:47.759 all people. 108 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:50.199 You even need a filmmaker, right, Mike. 109 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:55.600 Well, he's a really good gateway drug, of course. So 110 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:00.040 I had the script for Reservoir Dogs, and on the 111 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:02.720 first page of the script, he thanks a whole bunch 112 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:06.079 of people. He thanks John Lucadar, he thanks Timothy Carey, 113 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:11.759 Lionel White, Andre d. Toath, and I don't remember who 114 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:15.720 all else. Probably I think he thinks Chilly and Fat, 115 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.160 not Rango Lamb yet. But with Andre to Toath, I 116 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:21.959 was not that familiar with his work. And this is 117 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:25.720 still early nineties, so I don't know if you guys 118 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:28.560 remember that big book at the video store where it 119 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.040 was like the catalog that you would have and you 120 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:33.920 could look up different activists. This might be way before 121 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:36.560 your guys's time. I don't know, but I looked up 122 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:38.319 Andre to Toth and I was just like, okay, and 123 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:41.199 I wrote down all of the movies that he had directed. 124 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:44.399 I went up to Toronto and was at Sam the 125 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:47.920 record man, and they had just an amazing selection of 126 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:52.639 VHS tapes, again dating myself, and I found Pitfall and 127 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:55.240 I was just so excited. I found Pitfall, and then 128 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.560 I found Fingerman and Fingerman had Timothy Kerey in It 129 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:00.720 was pretty tough to find at the time. I don't 130 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:04.240 know if that's been restored, hopefully it has. And then 131 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:07.720 this one with having Dick Powell in it, but directed 132 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:10.319 by Andre de Tod and I said, okay, let's check 133 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:12.839 it out, and I fell in love with it. So 134 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:17.800 those ninety four ninety five something like that is when 135 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:21.360 I saw this for the first time and just really 136 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.079 really liked this movie. And I'm so glad that we're 137 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:27.680 able to talk about it because it feels there's a 138 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:31.279 lot of noir tropes, like you guys said, but at 139 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:34.120 the same time, there are some twists and turns on 140 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:38.279 here where I just really didn't expect it, Like we 141 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:41.399 have to talk about the fan fatal and just how 142 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:45.759 different Elizabeth Scott is as a falm fatal versus you know, 143 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:49.480 your your phyllis dietrix or any of these other like 144 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.600 sex pot I need a man to manipulate and get 145 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:57.480 him to do my bidding. Doesn't feel like she really 146 00:08:57.720 --> 00:08:59.679 is looking for that. It doesn't feel like she's a 147 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:02.200 spy woman hanging out in a web just waiting for 148 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:03.200 a fly to come in. 149 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:05.440 No, not at all. I was going to say, like 150 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:07.200 not to get too film browie, but I was going 151 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:09.919 to say, like, is she even a femme fatal, Like 152 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:13.320 how are we defining that and does she even qualify? 153 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:16.639 Well, I think she qualifies. I know felm fatal has 154 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:20.279 become shorthand for an evil, manipulative woman, but I think 155 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:23.159 the pure definition of the term is more a woman 156 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:27.000 who causes the downfall of a weak man. It doesn't 157 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:29.879 necessarily have to be because she's duplicitous or out for 158 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:33.440 her own gain. She can just be beautiful or vulnerable 159 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:36.519 or in a tight spot, and the male protagonist ends 160 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:38.919 up making choices that he knows he shouldn't make, but 161 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:42.480 he can't help himself because he's smitten with this irresistible 162 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.080 quote unquote fatal woman. But you know, she doesn't have 163 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:48.720 to be fatal in the sense of evil, And I 164 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:51.320 don't think John Forbes is an especially weak man, but 165 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:54.799 he is bored, he feels trapped in his domestic life. 166 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:57.759 He knows he should leave Mona alone, and he gets 167 00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:00.720 several warnings to leave her alone, which I think is 168 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:02.919 part of what makes her qualify as a fem fatale, 169 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:06.159 because like, he knows what he's doing, He knows he 170 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:08.960 shouldn't be cheating on his wife. He knows Raymond Burr 171 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.360 has the hots for this woman and kind of wants 172 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:14.559 to do anything, including possibly kill him, but at least 173 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:16.919 beat him up to keep him away from her. So 174 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:19.759 you know, he pursues her anyway, and he comes to 175 00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:22.200 regret it, but it's no fault of her own, but 176 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:23.600 it still makes her a fem fatale. 177 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:26.559 I think, well, it's so fascinating because typically like I 178 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:30.279 think of, yeah, like the Double Indemnities or the Postman 179 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:34.080 Always Rings twice, things like that, when Mona finds out 180 00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:38.519 that John is married, she's taken it back, like she's 181 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:42.720 not going for him, like the progression of their relationship 182 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:46.360 throughout this movie, especially the second time I watched it. 183 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:48.559 Just like he has said, like this is just like 184 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:52.080 this has a lot more realism to it. It's a 185 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.919 really well told story, like all the pieces and the dominoes, 186 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:58.759 how they all fall is just like done very well, 187 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.600 but it's not like you can feel the strings. Like 188 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:04.440 this is very much a story, but it doesn't feel 189 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:08.320 contrived and super heightened like a lot of noir does that. 190 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:11.120 We all love it, just it feels like, oh yeah, 191 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:16.039 like that could genuinely happen without too much imagination. Like 192 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.080 a guy not wearing a wedding ring, doesn't talk about 193 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:23.799 his wife, makes very small compromises, and then gets himself 194 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.159 into some awful situations. 195 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:29.039 Well, he does wear wedding ring, but he wears it 196 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:31.639 on the wrong finger, on his pinky. 197 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:33.840 Okay. I couldn't tell if that if that was that, 198 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:35.320 or if that was like I. 199 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:38.039 Did not see that on the Amazon SD version. I 200 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:39.960 had to wait till I saw it the Blu ray 201 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:41.360 to get that detail. 202 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:42.279 But yeah, I. 203 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:44.600 Didn't know if that was like a symbol of like, oh, 204 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:48.159 he's a successful insurance man. I could not tell what 205 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:48.639 that was. 206 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:51.759 I kind of wonder if he gained some weight after 207 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:54.080 he got married and maybe he had to switch it over. 208 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:57.360 But he's doing that even when before he meets Mona, 209 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:00.120 like in the car with Jaden Wyatt, and that's that's 210 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:04.080 the thing, like him being in that very weak position 211 00:12:04.519 --> 00:12:07.720 of being driven to work by his wife. You know 212 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.639 that feels very emasculating to me in that and then 213 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:15.200 he gives her that little speech before these where it's 214 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:16.080 just like I. 215 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.879 Leave the opposite exactly four minutes after five, takes six 216 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:20.679 minutes to walk to the corner where Charlie picks me 217 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:23.360 up at exactly five point fifteen, takes thirty two minutes 218 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:24.639 to drive home, and as we hit a couple of 219 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.039 stop signals, I'm kissing you on the cheek at exactly. 220 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:30.559 Five fifty oh man routine getting you down again. 221 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:31.960 I don't know. 222 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:34.720 Sometimes I get to feel like a wheel within a 223 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:36.080 wheel within a wheel. 224 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:38.559 And fifty million others. I don't want to be like 225 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:39.440 fifty million others. 226 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:43.799 Oh but you're John Forbes, average American backbone of a country. 227 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:45.720 I don't want to be an average American backbone of 228 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.000 the country. I want somebody else to beat the backbone 229 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:48.639 and hold me up. 230 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:51.960 We've been reading Time his geography book again, Glamor's Bonio, 231 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.120 Rubber Plantations, and Dusty Dames. 232 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:58.080 Well, it sounds a lot better than Glamour's Olympic Mutual Insurance. 233 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:00.799 Company, I think, speaking of which we're here. 234 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:04.840 Oh well, see it exactly five fifty. 235 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.600 Gives her that peck on the cheek and she's just like, hey, wait. 236 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:11.000 A minute, I'm getting a little bored back kiss on 237 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:11.559 the cheek too. 238 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:15.159 Thanks, you're welcome. 239 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:18.039 And then his kid, that whole thing with this kid, 240 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:21.480 it's like, oh yeah, So and So's father was in 241 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:23.519 the war and he won this and that, he got 242 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.159 the Silver Star and this and that, and he's like, 243 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:28.279 what do you get, daddy. He's like, you know, like 244 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:29.120 basically get like. 245 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:31.919 All your father got the good Conduct Medal for oh, 246 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:33.120 beat clusters. 247 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:36.600 Really, when did I do Jimmy his father only got 248 00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:37.440 the Silver Star? 249 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:40.159 Son? I don't think i'd do that. If I were, 250 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:43.799 you might sound like boasting. Fan hold it man, you too? 251 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:47.559 You served him? Num I did saga? Well, how'd you 252 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:49.679 lose your eye? Fucking round in the office. 253 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:51.840 We were shooting paper clips at each other and one 254 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:53.000 of the damn foods hit me. 255 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:54.000 Now you know what. 256 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:57.879 Those fucking metals on your coat? 257 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:02.039 Well, and this one is for taiping' and this one 258 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:04.639 is for dot champion, and this one is for ciphering, 259 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:07.679 and got up. 260 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:10.879 It might sound like bragging that you got the metal 261 00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:14.159 of conduct, you only got the silver Star. Jane Wyatt 262 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:16.320 has this amazing line where she's like, you know, he 263 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.000 kept the Japs out of Baltimore or something, you know, 264 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:22.480 like just that's totally, you know, condescending, as you said, 265 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.519 Like so many of the lines of this are very emasculating, 266 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.840 but in such a funny way. It's not heavy handed. 267 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:31.120 It feels very organic. Like the rest of the movie. 268 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:34.559 It feels very natural. The dialogue feels natural. I love 269 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.679 Jane Wytt in this movie because she's not some nagging, 270 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.720 weak or clueless wife in the book that this is 271 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:44.399 based on. She's dealing with like a complicated pregnancy and 272 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:46.200 she can't really get out of bed, so she's kind 273 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.279 of helpless, which makes Forbes like more of a jerk 274 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:52.000 in the book, but it also makes her less of 275 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:55.799 a formidable presence in his life. In the movie, she's 276 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:59.519 funny and sassy and sexy. She meets his like gloom 277 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:02.200 and doom and his cynicism with really good humor. 278 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:08.039 Their rapport is great, Like, he's not in an unhappy marriage, 279 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:10.639 he's just kind of in like a midlife crisis. Like 280 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:13.639 when he's kind of reminiscing back talking about their high 281 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.200 school days, he's like, you're voted prettiest and I was 282 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:18.960 voted most likely to succeed. What happened? She said, well, 283 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.279 I had a baby. What happened to you? Like she 284 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:23.600 was just like gently ribbing him. It wasn't like a 285 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:26.360 put down. She's like, hey, like get over yourself, Like, 286 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:30.120 let's turn the life we have into the one we want. 287 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:33.159 Like, man, she's someone who can deal with honesty in 288 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:35.440 a marriage, which is another thing we don't often see 289 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.320 in noir pictures. You know, She's like yeah, yeah, She's 290 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:42.200 like a kind of an ideal I mean, obviously she 291 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:44.120 was the wife on Father Knows Best, so in many 292 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:47.840 ways she was an idealized American wife later in her career. 293 00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:50.000 But like you know, this is one of those movies 294 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.360 where I often find myself like, there's a lot of 295 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.720 movies that are either whether it's you know, a film 296 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:59.240 noir or a movie like Damage, where I'm just like, 297 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:02.519 you can't identify with a protagonist because I'm in love 298 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:04.679 with his wife so much. I'm like, that's the actress 299 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.159 I'm more attracted to. That's the character I'm more attracted to. 300 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:09.799 But I still like in noir movies, I still find 301 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:14.360 it compelling, like you do identify with Forbes because he 302 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:16.840 does seem like just such an ordinary schmo. 303 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:21.000 I love the part in the book where Mac and 304 00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:23.200 we'll talk about the differences a little bit more. But 305 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:27.399 Mac says to him, how's your wife? And then he 306 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:31.240 goes fine. I said, without thinking, then I thought, all right, 307 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:35.000 I thought plenty S almost had a miscarriage. She was 308 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.960 still taking those primo and tablets and opium. She's been 309 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:41.440 in bed for over three months, not allowed to move 310 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.000 at all. I get the connection. He nodded. I thought 311 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:49.879 you'd be interested. I'm like, oh, so you can't have 312 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:52.279 sex with your wife, so you just want a little 313 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:53.440 strange then, buddy. 314 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:58.559 Those are both very interesting dynamics. And for the movie, 315 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:00.919 I kind of like the changes that were made again, 316 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:04.240 like because the way they take all those things that 317 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:09.119 we're used to, it's kind of like those punches land 318 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:11.319 much stronger and you kind of don't see them coming. 319 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:13.799 And I know I don't want to jump to the end, 320 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:17.079 but I mean just the way everything falls, and then 321 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:19.839 the climax of this movie. At first, like the very 322 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.119 first time I watched it, I mean I was like, what, like, 323 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:24.480 what is going on? But then you kind of think 324 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:26.759 back and you look at everything that went there, You're like, wow, 325 00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:32.319 that was really subversive and really honest and really genuine 326 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.880 and sensational in a way that life is sensational. 327 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:40.519 Yeah, the first time I watched it, I thought like 328 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:42.160 the ending. I was like, oh, this is like the 329 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:44.799 tact on Hollywood ending. And then like the second time 330 00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:46.799 I watched it, I was like, oh, actually not at all, 331 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:50.640 Like this is actually the perfect ending, and it's really 332 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:54.720 an atypical ending because it is so direct, like because 333 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:59.000 of what she is talking about in terms of reconciling 334 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:02.039 their relationship. You don't you don't see scenes like that 335 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:04.400 at the end of most Hollywood nos. 336 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:08.640 In nineteen forty eight. Like it's brutal, it's hopeful, it's 337 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:12.279 kind of beautiful, it's very like it's really like if 338 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:14.839 you've been in a marriage and you've had those conversations 339 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:17.519 at all, Like it it felt so real in a 340 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:21.920 way that yeah, nineteen forties Hollywood movies were not at all. 341 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:25.400 Yeah, Like it's not the fatal attraction ending where it's like, okay, 342 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:32.359 like problem solved, family reunited, everybody's good. It's like problem solved. 343 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:37.079 Like he's not going to jail. You know, yeah, he's 344 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:38.359 still alive, he's still married. 345 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:38.960 He eight dead. 346 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:41.599 But you know, as she says, like I don't know 347 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:42.839 if it's ever going to be the same. 348 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:45.680 Usually noirres like jail or dead. 349 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:49.240 Well in Port Elizabeth Scott is off to jail and 350 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:52.680 she doesn't get that closure with him at all, Like 351 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:55.559 they like miss each other by seconds. He seears are 352 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:58.680 going off. He could call to her, but he doesn't. 353 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:02.720 He just leaves, and this poor lady is getting carted 354 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:05.839 off to jail. He's as guilty as she is. He 355 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.279 killed the man in cold blood. She did the same, 356 00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:13.480 but in order to protect herself from this total creep. 357 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:17.599 Raymond Burr plays a wonderful creep in this movie. He's 358 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:22.759 just amazing. From the first moment where he looks kind 359 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:24.440 of little because he's sitting. 360 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:26.680 Down, he was fantastatic. 361 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:29.640 Oh my god, his shoulders look like they're gonna go 362 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:31.359 off the size of the screen, and he's got this 363 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:32.400 tiny little head. 364 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:34.799 He's in that cartoonishly big suit. 365 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.319 He's always like that in movies of this period. He's 366 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:41.240 a really fast I mean, as a fat guy myself. 367 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:44.799 I love big actors who photographed well. Brian Deannahey is 368 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:47.519 kind of like a personal hero, and I love how 369 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:50.720 imposing Raymond Burr is. Like he's almost as big as 370 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:53.359 Sydney green Street, but he doesn't have that big head, 371 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:55.640 and he's not an old man like green Street is. 372 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:59.079 He's very big, but in a sexy way. And those 373 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:01.400 giant suits so are kind of part of it. Like 374 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:04.759 he's like swimming around in all this fabric, but it 375 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:08.079 doesn't weigh him down. It almost makes him buoyant. I 376 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:11.400 have an older friend who just loves Perry Mason, the 377 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.000 old black and white version, and she's watched like every 378 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:17.680 single episode, like the way Star Trek fans watch like 379 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:20.519 Star Trek episodes, and I watched a few of them 380 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:22.640 with her. And he's really huge in that show too, 381 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:25.039 Like he you know, but he's like young. He's running around, 382 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:27.240 he's like bending down on the floor to like check 383 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:28.680 out a body, and then he gets up and he's 384 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:32.519 like running to the door, and he's just so big. 385 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:36.200 And I'm just still not used to seeing that in 386 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.480 any film or TV show really of any era, to 387 00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:44.039 have like the dramatic lead, the handsome dramatic lead, be 388 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.279 so incredibly obese. He's not just overweight, he's an obese man. 389 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:51.880 And obviously that's used wonderfully in movies like Rear Window 390 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.680 and stuff like that, but I just find him kind 391 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:58.119 of fascinating in this era, and especially in this movie. 392 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.839 We should talk about the book real quick, because the book. 393 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:07.480 In the book, he's a cop and his plan is, Hey, 394 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.680 I sent this guy, Smiley and his partner. They were 395 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:13.079 per snatchers, I think it is, and I sent them 396 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:17.680 up up the river. But Smiley's got this really hot wife, 397 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:20.599 and I really want to get with her. This is 398 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.200 where the logic gap comes in. He somehow wants Forbes, 399 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:27.759 who is a screenwriter in the in the book, which 400 00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:28.200 would have. 401 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:30.400