Speaker 1: There are movies that dominate the box office, there are
Speaker 1: movies that win auscars, and then there are movies that
Speaker 1: quietly alter nation's memory.
Speaker 2: Glory wasn't the biggest movie in nineteen eighty nine. It
Speaker 2: didn't become a merchandising empire, it didn't spawn sequels. But
Speaker 2: more than thirty five years later, if you ask Americans
Speaker 2: about the fifty fourth Massachusetts Infantry Regiment, there's a good
Speaker 2: chance they're not remembering a history book.
Speaker 1: They're remembering Matthew Broderick carrying a flag.
Speaker 2: They're remembering Morgan Freeman's quiet dignity.
Speaker 1: They're remembering Denzel Washington staring through tears after being flogged.
Speaker 2: They're remembering James Horner's music as an all black regimen
Speaker 2: marched toward almost certain death.
Speaker 1: This is the story of a movie that didn't just
Speaker 1: entertain people. It taught millions of Americans a chapter of
Speaker 1: their own history, and in so doing, it became iconic.
Speaker 1: This is accidental legends, and today we focus on the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine classic Glory.
Speaker 3: They said it wouldn't last, just leave it on the shells, but.
Speaker 1: Miss it's from the past to the.
Speaker 3: Cental legis craziness.
Speaker 4: It guy from me forgot it.
Speaker 2: So the shots shot.
Speaker 5: Sentential legends.
Speaker 1: True if it shot.
Speaker 4: This show.
Speaker 2: For you, accidental show mad. It is so good to
Speaker 2: be back in cul de Sac Studios. I feel like,
Speaker 2: even though it's been two weeks, I feel like it's
Speaker 2: been almost an eternity since we've been doing this.
Speaker 1: It has been a while. I see how you kind
Speaker 1: of just snuck that in the cul de Sac Studios.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's our new studio location. A lot of things
Speaker 2: have happened in season two. We've gotten better equipment, and
Speaker 2: I forgot to tell you that we actually have a
Speaker 2: new studio built.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that or seen the bill on it,
Speaker 1: so I'm assuming you're covering that on which is fine.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 2: It's a studio of the mind. Open your mind and
Speaker 2: just be there. Be in the studio, be the ball mat,
Speaker 2: be in the studio. But nonetheless, it really is good
Speaker 2: to be back. We've had probably a lot of just
Speaker 2: life happening, you know, between Memorial Day holidays. I've got
Speaker 2: a lot of birthdays in my family. In April, of course,
Speaker 2: there was Mother's Day. This is big news. We just
Speaker 2: helped move my younger son Alex into his first apartment.
Speaker 2: Jen and I are officially empty nesters.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the club, sir. The water is good over here.
Speaker 1: You should try it out, get used to it, and
Speaker 1: then we'll have a status report on that deal.
Speaker 2: Well, just so you know, I love my kids and
Speaker 2: this is a little bit of an adjustment, but it's
Speaker 2: a very healthy adjustment, and I'm very excited for what's
Speaker 2: next for him and for geninized. Now we're back to work.
Speaker 1: And I never get sad, well maybe a little bit sad,
Speaker 1: but I mean, when kids do what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 1: Kids are supposed to graduate from school, they're supposed to
Speaker 1: get through the next stage, whatever that is. It's it's
Speaker 1: college or trade school or internships or whatever. When they
Speaker 1: move out and they go to a different place to live,
Speaker 1: those are all natural things. That just means that we
Speaker 1: did our job. You and gen y'all did your job
Speaker 1: with your boys. So guess what they're leaving the nest.
Speaker 1: There is no failure to launch on that deal, which
Speaker 1: good job.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. It is glorious to watch you see
Speaker 2: what I did say that.
Speaker 1: I see at Yeah, yeah, I'm falling. This is accidental
Speaker 1: legends everybody. Thanks for listening. We want to ask you
Speaker 1: to like and subscribe on your podcast service. You might
Speaker 1: be listening to us on Apple, on Spotify, on Spreaker,
Speaker 1: on Prime, whatever your podcast service is, please like and subscribe.
Speaker 1: We drop every week Tuesday at midnight. It might be twelve,
Speaker 1: it might be two five. Sometimes it might be as
Speaker 1: late as twelve thirty. That's generally the time that we launch.
Speaker 1: And there are no more breaks this year, Derek. We're
Speaker 1: going straight through to the end of the year, every
Speaker 1: single week until our mouths drop off, or our hands
Speaker 1: fall off or our computer stop working. Is that about right?
Speaker 1: No pressure, No pressure at all. So also reach out
Speaker 1: to us and email us at Accidental legendspod at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. That's two l's, one ending and accidental and
Speaker 1: one beginning in legends. Accidental Legends pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Send us an email. Hey, if you've got our phone numbers,
Speaker 1: use them, lose them, whatever, send us a text. We'd
Speaker 1: love to talk to you about your takes and your
Speaker 1: thoughts on this week's podcast.
Speaker 2: Before we jump into the movie stuff, I want to
Speaker 2: ask you a question when or what was your first
Speaker 2: experience with the Civil War.
Speaker 1: So this would have been around seventh grade and I
Speaker 1: had a history teacher and we didn't even really cover
Speaker 1: the Civil War that year, but she just kind of
Speaker 1: gave us teasers for the eighth grade year. But she
Speaker 1: it was interesting enough to me that I was just
Speaker 1: really really interested in what is the Civil War is?
Speaker 1: What is all of this stuff? I knew about the
Speaker 1: Revolutionary War, but the Civil War that was a new
Speaker 1: thing to this little seventh grader, So I was very
Speaker 1: interested to find out what it was all about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think for me it was. It was a very
Speaker 1: high level at school. I can tell you I did
Speaker 1: learn the hard way that the Gettysburg address is not
Speaker 1: seventeen thirty three, so it is. I did not get
Speaker 1: a good grade on that test. But the classes were
Speaker 1: very high level, North versus South. It was for slavery,
Speaker 1: they fought. It was the bloodiest war, what on us soil.
Speaker 2: That's about all I remember. My family never really talked
Speaker 2: about it much. You know, my family was all about
Speaker 2: war war too, because of your grandparents. And I don't
Speaker 2: even know if my descendants got here before or after
Speaker 2: the Civil War periods. So I'm just not up on
Speaker 2: my ancestry dot com. Yeah, That's my long answer is
Speaker 2: I just I did not think about it much, and
Speaker 2: I don't remember studying it much.
Speaker 1: It's been a lifelong interest for me. I even took
Speaker 1: a Civil War class in college. But here's the other thing.
Speaker 1: My miner in college was history. There was a part
Speaker 1: of me that wanted to be a history professor because
Speaker 1: all of the teachers that made huge impacts on me,
Speaker 1: for the most part, were history teachers going later in
Speaker 1: high school and into my earlier college years. So hey,
Speaker 1: history professor sounded good to me because I loved the
Speaker 1: storytelling aspect to all of that, and I think Glory
Speaker 1: hits on some of that. We're going to get into
Speaker 1: that later. Where did you see it? If you saw
Speaker 1: it at all, this is going to be a shock
Speaker 1: to you. I do not remember where I first saw it.
Speaker 1: I remember all the infantry of the fifty fourth. They're
Speaker 1: singing and testifying and praying, and they're clapping their hands
Speaker 1: and saying, oh, my lord, Lord Lord. That has been
Speaker 1: something that I have quoted and sung for probably the
Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty nine. I mean, it's that familiar to me.
Speaker 2: I remember when I saw it. The first time I
Speaker 2: saw it was two days ago, and let me kind
Speaker 2: of explain that. You know, this came out in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty nine. I was senior in high school, and to
Speaker 2: be quite frank, I was doing senior stuff and the
Speaker 2: only movies I was really interested in were the big
Speaker 2: franchise things. You had Indiana Jones coming out that year,
Speaker 2: you had the first Batman movie. There was a lot
Speaker 2: of exciting, big time films that were coming out, and
Speaker 2: to be honest, I was not into dramas at that age.
Speaker 2: So I remember the trailer. I remember seeing the poster
Speaker 2: for Glory, and I just kind of went just because
Speaker 2: it just looked like a drama. I'd rather go see
Speaker 2: the new Batman. I gotta check that out. Now go
Speaker 2: a little forward. My older son, Sean, when he was
Speaker 2: in high school, he came home and told me about
Speaker 2: this movie. Have you seen Glory? And I go, I
Speaker 2: think I've heard the name. He goes, It's one of
Speaker 2: my favorite movies. It is so good historically. You have
Speaker 2: got to see this and.
Speaker 1: Yet again, wow, okay Sean, Yeah, he.
Speaker 2: Saw it like again and again, or I think he
Speaker 2: rented the DVD back then and would watch it, and
Speaker 2: I said, okay, I'll watch it, so it's always been
Speaker 2: on my list, but not until we started this topic
Speaker 2: when you said I want to do Glory, and I go, well,
Speaker 2: this gives me an opportunity.
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny because I just happened to catch Glory.
Speaker 1: I think on some streaming service. Was it Prime?
Speaker 2: I rented it on Prime a couple of days ago,
Speaker 2: so I don't know. I think it's on MGM Plus
Speaker 2: and I said, nah, I'll just rent it, and that's fine.
Speaker 1: Maybe I caught it on one of our seven thousand
Speaker 1: streaming platforms. But I thought, huh, Glory, I wonder if
Speaker 1: that's an accidental legend. So I started doing a little
Speaker 1: bit of research and lo and behold, we were onto something.
Speaker 1: And I enjoyed the movie enough, and I thought it
Speaker 1: was more nineties. I thought it was early nineties, and
Speaker 1: then I found out, nope, it is nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1: Square slap dab in the middle of Michael Keaton's Batman
Speaker 1: coming out, the Last Crusade coming out, And it feels
Speaker 1: late to me. But it's like you said, lead the
Speaker 1: Weapon two even was coming out in eighty nine. I
Speaker 1: thought that was more like eighty seven, But you know,
Speaker 1: don't count me on trivia.
Speaker 2: No, I get it.
Speaker 1: So this concept of black Civil War troops, did you
Speaker 1: know anything about that? I had never heard of the
Speaker 1: concept early on. When I first started seeing it, it
Speaker 1: was definitely my first exposure to Hey, there were black
Speaker 1: infantry regimens fighting for the Union, obviously not fighting for
Speaker 1: the Confederacy, but fighting for the Union. They existed, and
Speaker 1: they had a significant impact on the course of the war.
Speaker 2: No, I had no idea. I didn't really get into,
Speaker 2: I guess, deeper dives of history until I got into college,
Speaker 2: and the history I enjoy is more of the what
Speaker 2: I call micro history stories, like well, there was a
Speaker 2: movie a while back with Gary Oldman about Winston Churchill,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't about his whole life, it was about
Speaker 2: one week. Dunkirk's another one. I really love the stories
Speaker 2: that just really zooms in and says, this is a
Speaker 2: moment with real people and real things happening. It's not
Speaker 2: just dates and places, because that just always bored me.
Speaker 1: So Heartbreak ridges that way too. Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So in a way, I'm kind of glad I
Speaker 2: saw it now instead of then, because I think it
Speaker 2: definitely hits better as an adult for me than it
Speaker 2: would have. As eighteen year old dark, I would have
Speaker 2: probably no question. Yeah, I don't think it would have
Speaker 2: impacted me at all. At eighteen, I would have just
Speaker 2: walked out the theater going, that was cool. Okay, that
Speaker 2: was great. I mean it wasn't cool, but you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, you just kind of go, huh, I'm eighteen,
Speaker 2: and when are we going to go see the Last Crusade?
Speaker 1: You know, right, well, when we were you know, eight,
Speaker 1: I mean eighty nine. I was, I think I was sixteen,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know who Denzel Washington was. I didn't
Speaker 1: know who Morgan Freeman was. I didn't know I barely
Speaker 1: knew that, you know, Wesley from The Princess Bride was
Speaker 1: in this. I definitely knew Ferris Bueller was in it.
Speaker 1: But the scope of the cast and the real meaning underneath,
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I was just trying to get girls
Speaker 1: and comb my mullet and get the zits off of
Speaker 1: my face. I could not grasp the significance of the
Speaker 1: very first because the fifty fourth was the very first
Speaker 1: black infantry regimen.
Speaker 2: And to be fair in your comment about the casting,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you'll get into this later, but you had
Speaker 2: no reason to know who any of these people were yet,
Speaker 2: except maybe Matthew Broderick, and except for maybe Wesley from
Speaker 2: The Princess Bride. I always forget his name, but I'm
Speaker 2: sure that'll come, you know, later on down in the discussion.
Speaker 2: But now there's no harm, no foul on not knowing
Speaker 2: who these people were yet.
Speaker 1: So do you think civil war movies have always been
Speaker 1: a tough sell? I mean, you're the movie guy. In
Speaker 1: the scope of movie making, there's just I can't think
Speaker 1: of a ton of civil war movies.
Speaker 2: No, I can't either. I mean, the only one I
Speaker 2: can think off the top of my head is Dances
Speaker 2: with Wolves, and that's just grazing the Civil War. That's
Speaker 2: not even a civil war movie. You know, it could be.
Speaker 2: I've got to I think about a couple of things
Speaker 2: that can hamper it. Number one, especially now you've got
Speaker 2: a lack of global appeal. You know, Hollywood's trying to
Speaker 2: market movies for the whole world, not just the US,
Speaker 2: and I would guess that civil war movies it's kind
Speaker 2: of a domestic subject, but it may be difficult to
Speaker 2: market worldwide. You know another thing, I think see that
Speaker 2: you know another thing, I think about is a lot
Speaker 2: of these kind of historical period films, they tend to
Speaker 2: require a meticulous amount of costuming and physical set design.
Speaker 2: The budgets can get a little high. Yeah, maybe a
Speaker 2: little different now with CGI, But I mean in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty nine, you're building all of these things. I mean,
Speaker 2: all those people you see out there in the field.
Speaker 2: Every single costume had to be made, every single actor
Speaker 2: had to be paid. So that could be a little
Speaker 2: bit of a downside too, maybe some politics involved. I
Speaker 2: don't really recall the eighties being much of a polarizing
Speaker 2: politics situation like it is today, So you know that
Speaker 2: may not even have an issue with it, But at
Speaker 2: least the first two points I think for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see that. And I don't believe we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about this. This is just kind of
Speaker 1: something I'm pulling off the general research that I was doing.
Speaker 1: But I believe the movie starts with Antietam. Is that correct?
Speaker 1: Am I remembering that right? Yes, the Battle of Antietam.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't filmed that Antietam. It was filmed in Gettysburg,
Speaker 1: So all of that geography that you see is Gettysburg.
Speaker 1: Just kind of a little interesting, useless tidbit. That's why
Speaker 1: I didn't make it into the show notes.
Speaker 2: Just one more thing I was thinking of is there's always,
Speaker 2: especially at this time, an originality problem. Movies that are
Speaker 2: nonfranchise original stories. It's a bet. And right at this point,
Speaker 2: they're investing everything into Batman. You've got, like you said,
Speaker 2: Leath the Weapon two Indiana Jones. That's like the third one.
Speaker 2: You know, the Last Crusade is coming out years earlier,
Speaker 2: you had Ghostbusters two Star Trek five. Original projects are
Speaker 2: always risky, which is a shame because think about it, Matt.
Speaker 2: Right now we're seeing a continued diminishing of margin for
Speaker 2: Hollywood projects. All we're seeing right now is sequels, prequels, sidebars,
Speaker 2: spin offs, and when you look at the box office numbers,
Speaker 2: it's just getting smaller and smaller. I really think Hollywood
Speaker 2: should think about originality.
Speaker 1: And think about it.
Speaker 2: You're and I show right here it's based on originality.
Speaker 2: It's that originality that create legends.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. And can I just give you
Speaker 1: a little pet peeve?
Speaker 2: Yeah, hit me.
Speaker 1: The Hollywood pet peeve for me is the remake. So
Speaker 1: you're telling me that we do not have enough creativity
Speaker 1: in our bones. We do not have enough creative writers,
Speaker 1: creative thinkers that we can come up with new ideas.
Speaker 1: We have to take an old idea, an old movie,
Speaker 1: dust it off and make it brand new. And we're
Speaker 1: gonna change the character arc. We're gonna change this, we're
Speaker 1: gonna change that. And it's not huge things, but taken
Speaker 1: all together, it's noticeable. And that has always been aggravating
Speaker 1: to me. Come up with the new thing. Let's do
Speaker 1: something new. You get paid big bucks to write new things,
Speaker 1: not adapt old things.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, this movie is certainly an original film. It's
Speaker 2: an original story, and it opened my eyes of a
Speaker 2: part of history I didn't know about. So why don't
Speaker 2: you kind of set us up and tell me a
Speaker 2: little bit about how this movie came to be.
Speaker 1: It's actually a cool story because Glory almost didn't exist
Speaker 1: because no one knew about it. No one knew that
Speaker 1: the fifty fourth existed. Producer Freddie Fields screenwriter Kevin Jarr
Speaker 1: were in Boston on completely unrelated business and they came
Speaker 1: across the Magnificent I'm told Augustus Saint Gauden's Memorial to
Speaker 1: Colonel Robert Shaw and the fifty fourth Massachusetts, and apparently
Speaker 1: it's breathtaking. I've seen pictures of it, but you know,
Speaker 1: until you get to a spot, you missed the gravitas
Speaker 1: of what's happening in that place. But the bronze soldiers
Speaker 1: marched behind Shaw on horseback alongside, or the inscriptions describing
Speaker 1: their sacrifices, the prejudice they endured, their legacy. Supposedly, if
Speaker 1: you look at the monument closely, it basically outlines the
Speaker 1: movie as it happened. I don't know if you caught
Speaker 1: that in your research, but according to the story, both
Speaker 1: men were just astonished. They had no idea. They said,
Speaker 1: we didn't know black soldiers fought in the Civil War.
Speaker 1: How have we never heard of this? And so they
Speaker 1: stumbled across one of America's great history stories by accident,
Speaker 1: and it became one of the most important historical films
Speaker 1: ever made.
Speaker 2: You know, I just want to point out something. When
Speaker 2: I was watching this movie, Why did we not know?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say wee because I didn't either. Why do
Speaker 2: we not know this?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 2: I think it's because the history books at that time
Speaker 2: just didn't print it. Like I said before, it was
Speaker 2: just the overview you had Lincoln, you had, Grant you
Speaker 2: had generally, that's about it. That's about all I remember.
Speaker 2: It's good now that over the decades we've kind of
Speaker 2: tried to write that. You know, we have black history
Speaker 2: mine for Latin America History Awareness Month and things like that.
Speaker 2: But and I'm not trying to get too political here,
Speaker 2: but I'm watching this movie and I thought to myself,
Speaker 2: this isn't black history, this is history. Yes, this is
Speaker 2: where we need to go. How about we integrate these
Speaker 2: stories in the history books. It's great to talk about Lincoln,
Speaker 2: but I think it's really good to talk about this too,
Speaker 2: and not label it something that just American history, because
Speaker 2: it's important for itself.
Speaker 1: I agree with that completely, because in the political climate
Speaker 1: and the social climate that we live in, all you
Speaker 1: have to do is show me a picture. All you
Speaker 1: have to do is show me Denzel Washington getting flogged,
Speaker 1: and I get it. You don't have to make any
Speaker 1: kind of commentary. I'm almost crawling out of my skin
Speaker 1: watching it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when we get to the.
Speaker 1: Cruciating, absolutely, it was utterly excruciating to watch for me.
Speaker 1: Always has been, always has been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a tough one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Glory does a great job of just kind of
Speaker 1: laying it out there. Here it is. You can take
Speaker 1: it or you can leave it, but it still happened here.
Speaker 1: The facts are as they're presented, it as they happened.
Speaker 1: The fifty fourth Massachusetts Infantry Regiment was one of the
Speaker 1: first official African American units in the Union Army during
Speaker 1: the Civil War. Composed of enlisted men led by white officers,
Speaker 1: the regimen made history through its heroic, though devastating assault
Speaker 1: on Fort Wagner, South Carolina in eighteen sixty three. Let
Speaker 1: me stop there for a minute, So the actual date
Speaker 1: of this battle is going to be July eighteenth, eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty three. This episode will drop on July fourteenth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six, one hundred and sixty three years to.
Speaker 2: The week wow of the battle.
Speaker 1: That's why I believe in the last podcast we were
Speaker 1: discussing that we were going to do Devil in the Bottle.
Speaker 1: That's why we kind of shifted gears.
Speaker 2: I was thinking that, and then I got the notes
Speaker 2: from this and I go, well, well, okay, but yes,
Speaker 2: that's right. This is not a country song.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, Matt's just having a little ADHD moment. He
Speaker 1: forgot he said devil in the bottle. He did not,
Speaker 1: in fact forget he said devil in the bottle. But
Speaker 1: I did look up the date, and I was thinking
Speaker 1: it was it was like lay, like early fall. But nope,
Speaker 1: July eighteenth, eighteen sixty three. So here's some key facts
Speaker 1: about the fifty fourth mass It was authorized by Massachusetts
Speaker 1: Governor John A. Andrew following the Emancipation Proclamation in eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty three, so the Union recruited free black men from
Speaker 1: across the North and even Canada. It was commanded by
Speaker 1: twenty five year old abolitionist Colonel Robert Gould Shaw, and
Speaker 1: the assault on Fort Wagner obviously July eighteenth, eighteen sixty three.
Speaker 1: The fifty fourth led a direct uphill charge against a
Speaker 1: heavily fortified Confederate battery in Wagner, South Carolina. The regiment
Speaker 1: suffered nearly fifty percent casualties, including the death of Colonel Shaw.
Speaker 1: So its impact and legacy is their extraordinary bravery and
Speaker 1: the discipline dispelled the racist doubts about African American soldiers
Speaker 1: fighting in the Civil War. So their actions paved the
Speaker 1: way for the listment of over get this one hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty thousand black soldiers fundamentally shifting the course of
Speaker 1: the war. This was the spark, right, So the North
Speaker 1: already had the population advantage over the South. They already
Speaker 1: had the bigger military, the better supplied military. But then
Speaker 1: you take all of that that was the White side,
Speaker 1: if you will, then you add almost two hundred thousand
Speaker 1: black troops on top of that. Talk about stem the tide,
Speaker 1: Stem the tide.
Speaker 2: I hope I'm not jumping the gun here, but as
Speaker 2: I understand it from the movie, they it was never
Speaker 2: intended for these regimens to even be combat ready. They
Speaker 2: were supposed to provide the labor, and they were. It
Speaker 2: was expected, well, you're never going to give them guns,
Speaker 2: And so I think that's what was amazing about this
Speaker 2: is Colonel Shaw said, no, we're going to train them
Speaker 2: to fight. We're going to train a regimen as if
Speaker 2: it's any other regimen, because it is, and they proved themselves.
Speaker 2: So I think that's what's interesting to pave the way
Speaker 2: for the almost two hundred thousand more black soldiers fundamentally
Speaker 2: shifting this war. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: An historical tidbit to this whole thing is the first
Speaker 1: African American awarded the Medal of Honor was Sergeant William
Speaker 1: Harvey Karney, and he saved the regiment's first American flag
Speaker 1: during the battle despite sustaining severe injuries. The first African
Speaker 1: American Medal of Honor winner came from this regiment this battle.
Speaker 2: Looked it up and correct me if I'm wrong. I
Speaker 2: think I'm right that Sergeant William Harvey Karney was Denzel
Speaker 2: Washington's character. Now, he had a different name in the movie,
Speaker 2: but he is the person in real life that picked
Speaker 2: up the flag and never let it drop.
Speaker 1: Yes, and no Trip was and we're talking about Denzel
Speaker 1: Washington's character Trip. It was kind of an amalgamation of
Speaker 1: five different peace And I think this is one of
Speaker 1: the real weaknesses. This is probably the only weakness I
Speaker 1: would say that Glory has is that you've got a
Speaker 1: Congressional Medal of Honor winner in the regiment and he's
Speaker 1: not named. He's not a character. They had to know
Speaker 1: about him, but they didn't make any attempt to honor
Speaker 1: his memory by mirroring his character in the movie. That's
Speaker 1: the only thing I would be critical of this movie about. Honestly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of agree. I mean, Frederick Douglass was in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're gonna point him out, so right, why not
Speaker 2: get Sergeant Carney.
Speaker 1: You know, that's a pretty significant historical figure just to
Speaker 1: get glossed now nineteen eighty nine versus twenty twenty six,
Speaker 1: that's a whole different climate. So I think if they're
Speaker 1: making that movie now, that's not getting glossed. I think
Speaker 1: it's getting highlighted. That's my personal opinion.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, And to be fair, when you're trying to
Speaker 2: compress a story into two hours, you have to make decisions,
Speaker 2: and it's like, are we going to get every single
Speaker 2: fact and make this three hours? Are we going to
Speaker 2: make it two hours and sort of make amalgam characters
Speaker 2: to personify different personalities, different characters of the era. I
Speaker 2: get it.
Speaker 1: I get it too, I do. I did. That was
Speaker 1: just my thing, So that's fair. But if you grew
Speaker 1: up watching Civil War movies, you notice something and you
Speaker 1: kind of hit on it. Earlier they look like Gone
Speaker 1: with the Wind, but they focused on the famous white commanders,
Speaker 1: you know, Lee Lincoln, General Grant Stonewall Jackson, sympathetic Southern character.
Speaker 1: The black experience is usually in the background, unless it's
Speaker 1: something specifically about slavery.
Speaker 2: Right, It's usually unfortunately stereotypical.
Speaker 1: Right, But Glory changed the camera angle. Yeah, it wasn't
Speaker 1: even really about Colonel Shaw. It was about ordinary men
Speaker 1: trying to earn dignity in a country and fighting for
Speaker 1: a country that wasn't sure they deserved it. And so
Speaker 1: the battle scenes matter, But the real story is the training.
Speaker 1: The real story is the unequal pay and the friendships,
Speaker 1: and the arguments and the humiliation, but the decision, despite
Speaker 1: all of those things, to fight anyway. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: really asking how was the Civil War won? It was
Speaker 1: asking what did the Civil War cost the people who
Speaker 1: fought it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think this is the reason why the
Speaker 2: movie has such lasting power, why my kids are saying, hey,
Speaker 2: you should watch this. This isn't a movie about military
Speaker 2: strategy or historical victories. It's about people. It's about a
Speaker 2: growth of culture. Yes, I agree with that completely.
Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting as we kind of dive into
Speaker 1: the guys that made it, the people that were involved
Speaker 1: the casting, that sort of thing. Kevin Jar we mentioned
Speaker 1: him earlier, and am I saying that right? Is it? Jar?
Speaker 2: A few moments later from.
Speaker 1: The historical fact checkers we have discovered that it's not
Speaker 1: Kevin Jar. It's Kevin Jar. So he has one of
Speaker 1: the strangest career in Hollywood. Get some of these writing
Speaker 1: credits start. He wrote Rambo First Blood Part two? All right?
Speaker 1: He later and this is going to be an upcoming
Speaker 1: episode this season. He wrote Tombstone. Get this. That means
Speaker 1: the guy that's responsible for writing one of the greatest
Speaker 1: Civil War movies also gave us. He even directed some
Speaker 1: of the Charlton Heston scenes in Tombstone. Director Edwards Wick
Speaker 1: had already established himself as a talented filmmaker, but Glory
Speaker 1: really just kind of legitimized him as a director of
Speaker 1: epic historical drama because after Glory he goes on to
Speaker 1: direct Legends of the Fall. Shout out Brad Pitt and
Speaker 1: all the women that are our age that are in
Speaker 1: utter complete love with Brad Pitt, especially in that movie,
Speaker 1: because he is just so broken. So without Glory do
Speaker 1: we get Legends of the Fall. He directed The Last
Speaker 1: Samurai with Tom Cruise Urge under Fire, also starring who
Speaker 1: Dirk Well.
Speaker 2: I have to confess I have seen Washington, Denzel Washington.
Speaker 1: That's right, Dirk Denzel Washington.
Speaker 2: Hey, that's pretty good because I've seen none of these movies.
Speaker 1: Confession man, Okay, well, Legends of the Fall you need
Speaker 1: to watch. Anthony Hopkins is fantastic. Okay, the Last Samurai
Speaker 1: again fantastic and Courage under Fire. I don't remember that one.
Speaker 1: I think that was Denzel and Meg Ryan, which you
Speaker 1: know me in nineteen eighty nine. I was a huge
Speaker 1: Meg Ryan fan.
Speaker 2: Okay, stop right there. You had me at Meg Okay, right.
Speaker 2: For Denzel Washington, Glory was his launch. Trip could have
Speaker 2: been a stereotype, and we already talked about Trip being
Speaker 2: kind of the amalgamation of the five different guys. But
Speaker 2: Denzel made him unforgettable. That flogging scene.
Speaker 1: There is no dialogue. It's determined that he deserted spoiler alert,
Speaker 1: he needed to be flogged, which, by the way, sir,
Speaker 1: that was Hollywood drama in eighteen sixty three. That would
Speaker 1: not have happened. Deserters were not flogged any longer. Great scene,
Speaker 1: one of the most iconic scenes perhaps in film, but anachronistic.
Speaker 1: The single tear rolls down his face. Do you remember
Speaker 1: that thing?
Speaker 2: Well, this is where I want to jump in because okay,
Speaker 2: I want to pull out my old radio TV film.
Speaker 1: Degree here and all right, go go.
Speaker 2: If I was a film professor in college, this is
Speaker 2: a scene that I would use for the students to study.
Speaker 2: I'm watching this, and if you want an example of
Speaker 2: restraint and less is more acting, this may be the
Speaker 2: best example I have ever seen. The way he just
Speaker 2: looks at Shaw like I've walked in these shoes longer
Speaker 2: than you'll ever imagine. You're gonna watch me, watch you
Speaker 2: while this happens.
Speaker 1: Man, That is so right, That is so right.
Speaker 2: And it's just it's this gradual. You get the shirt
Speaker 2: pulled down, you see the scars, and you're going, man,
Speaker 2: his face never changes, and with each flog you get
Speaker 2: a tiny flicker, a little bit of the cheek, a
Speaker 2: little grimace in the mouth, a twitch in the nostril.
Speaker 2: And my gosh, how with all that restraint he was
Speaker 2: able to make that one tear fall. It's the most
Speaker 2: incredible thing I have seen in forever. There's so many
Speaker 2: ways you could have played this, and I can visualize it,
Speaker 2: especially in today's Hollywood. There could be screaming, there could
Speaker 2: be yelling, there could be facial expressions very big to
Speaker 2: make sure that the audience understands we have none of that.
Speaker 2: This is more impactful for me, just the minimal aspect
Speaker 2: of it. You can't feel the pain that you can
Speaker 2: almost feel you as close as you're going to get
Speaker 2: by the look on his face. It's incredible.
Speaker 1: And let's be clear, had Tripp been white and deserted
Speaker 1: in this movie, he still would gotten flogged. He wasn't
Speaker 1: flogged because he was black. So it's like, you're bringing
Speaker 1: the military standards to these men. They rip his shirt
Speaker 1: off and there are the scars and his back is
Speaker 1: just tattered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to be fair, a lot of the officers
Speaker 2: they were cringing at this. They were like, are you sure?
Speaker 2: Should we really? We really shouldn't. And it was Shaw
Speaker 2: in the story. That's where Seaw said, it's in the book,
Speaker 2: we do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah to me. When they get his shirt off and
Speaker 1: then he puts his arms up on the wagon wheel
Speaker 1: and turns to look at Shaw, to me, that's like
Speaker 1: a mic draw.
Speaker 2: You don't have to tie my hands up, you don't
Speaker 2: have to hold me. I'm just gonna stand here and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna show you.
Speaker 1: We've done this before. What you gonna do? Booh man?
Speaker 2: No, he totally deserved whatever accolades he gets for this.
Speaker 2: I did want to point out real quick that at
Speaker 2: this time, most people wouldn't have known who Denzel Washington
Speaker 2: was unless you were Saint Elsewhere viewer on TV.
Speaker 1: Wait.
Speaker 2: What Denzel Washington was one of the doctors Elsewhere.
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: And he had done some other small discs and that.
Speaker 2: So I mean this, this was a breakthrough Saint else
Speaker 2: I did not know that.
Speaker 1: Okay, I did not know. Morgan Freeman's story is different.
Speaker 1: This didn't launch Morgan Freeman because you know, Denzel kind
Speaker 1: of took that whole performance and he got his first
Speaker 1: Oscar out of it. Morgan Freeman was a little different.
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned that in our discussions the last
Speaker 1: couple of weeks is we talked a little bit about
Speaker 1: lean on Me, and that was kind of our big
Speaker 1: It was definitely my big introduction to Morgan Freeman. And
Speaker 1: it didn't launch him, but it stabilized him. He wasn't
Speaker 1: a you know, a big, fancy, famous movie star. He'd
Speaker 1: been acting a long time, but he didn't arrive until
Speaker 1: he was fifty years old. But Glory kind of helped,
Speaker 1: you know, establish his persona that would dominate the next
Speaker 1: thirty years, the wise leader, the moral center, the authority figure.
Speaker 1: Right after Glory, he gets Driving Miss Daisy, he gets Unforgiven,
Speaker 1: he gets Shawshank redemption.
Speaker 2: Glory is definitely the beginning now earlier, and I didn't
Speaker 2: realize this because I was too young to know. He
Speaker 2: was one of the actors on The Electric Company on
Speaker 2: PBS way back in the day.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think I came across that as well.
Speaker 2: But you're right, it wasn't until he was a little
Speaker 2: bit over fifty. Glory comes out, lean on me. Driving
Speaker 2: Miss Daisy is coming out at the same time roughly
Speaker 2: that Glory did, and so yeah, he is off to
Speaker 2: the races.
Speaker 1: Now. It kind of went the whole you know, authority figure, morality,
Speaker 1: all of those things, the moral center, the wise leader.
Speaker 1: He eventually played God Bruce Olmight, which I've always laughed
Speaker 1: at that. I thought that was a great cast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but he he expressed back in the day kind of
Speaker 1: frustration that he has been cast type cast essentially, he's
Speaker 1: always being cast as that mentor character. But Glory was
Speaker 1: the thing that put him on that path. And you know,
Speaker 1: the best part in Glory for Freeman when he sets
Speaker 1: trips straight.
Speaker 5: What are you so full of hate you just want
Speaker 5: to go out and fight everybody cause you've been whipped
Speaker 5: and chased by hounds? Well that might not be living,
Speaker 5: but it's sure as hell ain't dying. And that is
Speaker 5: what these white boys have been doing for going on
Speaker 5: three years now, dying by the thousands, dying for you fool.
Speaker 5: I know because I dug the graves, and all the
Speaker 5: time I'm digging, I'm asking myself when when old Lawd's
Speaker 5: going to be our time? What time's coming, when we're
Speaker 5: going to have to handy up, Andy up and kick
Speaker 5: in like men, fack men.
Speaker 2: You know the thing about Morgan Freeman, Matt, he just
Speaker 2: has this voice that if he just read the grocery
Speaker 2: list to me, I would probably cry right Introducing Andrew
Speaker 2: dice Clay in the Adventures of Ford Fairlane, guest starring
Speaker 2: Morgan Freeman. Well it's okay, now, I'm gonna buy two
Speaker 2: tickets for that now, thank you.
Speaker 1: Who's actually the heart of this movie? Is it Shaw?
Speaker 1: Is it Trip? Is it Morgan Freeman, who is quietly
Speaker 1: holding the thing together? My vote, would you say?
Speaker 2: My vote is Morgan Freeman as kind of the soul
Speaker 2: of the movie. Now, don't get me wrong, Colonel Shaw
Speaker 2: definitely has a good story arc. He's a young young guy,
Speaker 2: full of them, full of energy, the romanticism of the war,
Speaker 2: and he's learning very quick that there is no romance
Speaker 2: in war. War is ugly or as hell. I've heard
Speaker 2: that said before.
Speaker 1: I've heard that as well. So for me, I kind
Speaker 1: of pull out, because I'm a thirty thousand foot guy.
Speaker 1: I kind of pull out and look at the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I think the infantry guys were perfectly cast, you know,
Speaker 1: Thomas and Trip and you know, all those guys were
Speaker 1: cast with perfection. I couldn't think of anybody that I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, I think you could have found somebody better
Speaker 1: for that. You don't, You're just like, no, those are
Speaker 1: the guys. Those are clearly the guys. Now, when I
Speaker 1: get to Shaw, and when I get to our dear Wesley,
Speaker 1: you know, how do you say his name, mules Elwes?
Speaker 1: How do you say his name?
Speaker 2: Say whose name?
Speaker 1: Wesley's name? Wesley, Wesley, Let's just call him Wesley. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of how I feel about it. So Wesley
Speaker 1: from the Princess Bride, right, I thought he was just
Speaker 1: utterly miscast and here's here's the thing that kind of
Speaker 1: set it off for me. Famously. Matthew Broderick plays Ferris Bueller.
Speaker 1: There are several scenes in the movie where the look
Speaker 1: on Colonel Shaw's phase is the same look from the
Speaker 1: lunch restaurant in Ferris Bueller Problem.
Speaker 3: You're a Froman, That's right, I'm a Froman. The Sausage
Speaker 3: King of Chicago. Yeah, that's me. Listen, young man, entrenew
Speaker 3: I'm very busy here. Why don't you take the kids
Speaker 3: and go back to the clubhouse?
Speaker 1: Are you suggesting thing that I'm not who I say
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 3: I'm suggesting that you leave before I have to get snooty, snooty,
Speaker 3: snotty snotty.
Speaker 5: Okay, ebe, let's go.
Speaker 3: I'm not going anywhere.
Speaker 1: And that look on his face that came into glory
Speaker 1: like two or three times. Okay, No, we're not doing
Speaker 1: Ferris Bueller at the lunch place meets the fifty fourth Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: So I was kind of before I passed judgment on that.
Speaker 2: Let me go back, Carrie, I'm gonna say, Carrie Ewles, Ewles,
Speaker 2: I'm that's what I think. I don't know how Okay,
Speaker 2: Major Cabot Forbes was his character.
Speaker 1: Yes, let me tell the second kind of the second guy.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, let me let me talk about Matthew Broderick,
Speaker 2: because you you kind of gave me a heads up.
Speaker 2: You sent me a text before I watched this movie
Speaker 2: and you said, let me know what you think about
Speaker 2: Ferris here.
Speaker 1: And I go, oh boy wah.
Speaker 2: And you know, I gotta say I thought he did
Speaker 2: a very good job. I was not taken out of
Speaker 2: And let me explain why. Charles twenty five he comes
Speaker 2: across as somebody that came from an aristocratic family, fairly wealthy,
Speaker 2: and he's he's a commanding officer, and I'm watching the
Speaker 2: movie and he's writing letters to his mom talking about
Speaker 2: how amazing this is and how exciting this is. And
Speaker 2: then he has that first battle at the beginning of
Speaker 2: the movie, and he's seeing people's heads blown off by
Speaker 2: cannon fire. People are dying on him. He gets shot,
Speaker 2: he's hiding, well he's not hiding, but he's buried down
Speaker 2: in the ground trying to not get shot more. And
Speaker 2: there was this part where he comes home and he's
Speaker 2: just getting something to drink and somebody's trying to pull
Speaker 2: the shutters to and it's kind of got that bam
Speaker 2: and he drops his drink and Jim she kind of
Speaker 2: watched it a little bit and she came in and
Speaker 2: she saw that and she goes, it's PDSD and I go, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: good for them, And so I thought, okay, Yes, Matthew
Speaker 2: Broderick has been known up until this point to play
Speaker 2: a Ferris Bueller. He was in War Games, Late Hawk.
Speaker 2: This was a stretch. I'll give you that this was
Speaker 2: a stretch role, but I really think he was probably
Speaker 2: cast okay for two reasons. Number One, it was Hollywood
Speaker 2: legitimacy of anybody in this movie. He was probably the
Speaker 2: biggest name at the moment, so it gives him a
Speaker 2: bankable name to put on the billing right. Number two, yes,
Speaker 2: he has been known to play smart Alex and you
Speaker 2: know young teens and whatever. Well that's kind of who
Speaker 2: he is a little bit in this at first. But
Speaker 2: you're watching this kid, it's kind of like the Red
Speaker 2: Badge of Courage if you've ever read that book. You're
Speaker 2: watching this kid descend into dark adulthood. I guess it's
Speaker 2: the way I would put it. He is seeing reality
Speaker 2: and to see that babyface on him and having to
Speaker 2: deal with this. It just worked for me.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't hate the take because I
Speaker 1: think as the movie progresses he definitely gets better. And
Speaker 1: I think kind of the transition scene is his confrontation
Speaker 1: with Quartermaster about the uniforms and the weapons. I wasn't
Speaker 1: really into him at that point. He got better for me.
Speaker 1: This is a nuanced discussion because are there other twenty
Speaker 1: five year olds that could have done a better job
Speaker 1: as Robert Shaw? Yes? Yes, I think there could be.
Speaker 1: Are there guys that could have played Robert Shaw that
Speaker 1: didn't have iconic roles previously that kind of colored the
Speaker 1: way that they played the current role. That's kind of
Speaker 1: where I'm sitting at with with Matthew Broader.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, in hindsight, with the budget it had
Speaker 2: and the rest of the cast being kind of new
Speaker 2: or from television or whatever, I really think you could
Speaker 2: have casted an unknown and it would have been just
Speaker 2: as solid if the performance was good. I don't think
Speaker 2: you need a Matthew Broderick name to this kind of film.
Speaker 1: I can see that. But you know, some of the
Speaker 1: factors that we talked about with the difficulty in Civil
Speaker 1: war movies and you know, kind of the subject matter
Speaker 1: of this one, kind of being really on the edge
Speaker 1: of where Hollywood was comfortable back then that maybe, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: Ferris Bueller's in this one, while we can go see
Speaker 1: that Ferris Bueller's in it. Hey the Dreadpire Roberts is
Speaker 1: in this one, so I can see it both ways.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about the music. Some movie scores they
Speaker 1: just kind of support the story. James Horner's score became
Speaker 1: a part of the story, but he is the composer behind.
Speaker 1: See if you know some of these movies, Derek Aliens,
Speaker 1: Brave Heart, Legends of the Fall, shout out Brad Pitt.
Speaker 1: But you haven't seen that one yet. Here's one that's
Speaker 1: kind of more Year Lane, Star Trek two, The Wrath
Speaker 1: of Kahn right, Titanic Avatar. But the thing about this
Speaker 1: soundtrack is it's almost liturgical. And here's what I think
Speaker 1: as that kind of liturgical quality, that almost religious, very
Speaker 1: sacred feeling to the score. It was the Boy's Choir
Speaker 1: of Harlem, So you remember the voices throughout the score
Speaker 1: that were singing, Yes, that was the Harlem Boys Choir,
Speaker 1: And they knew that they wanted to use Boy's voices.
Speaker 1: They knew that that was kind of the character that
Speaker 1: they were looking for. But the cinematographer Freddie Francis, who
Speaker 1: incidentally was also an Oscar winner from Glory for Cinematography,
Speaker 1: suggested the Harlem Boys Choir. He showed up with one
Speaker 1: of their tapes, and Horner as soon as he heard
Speaker 1: it he knew, Okay, this is what I need. So
Speaker 1: he goes to New York. He brings the Harlem Boys
Speaker 1: Choir to LA and gets them to record in LA,
Speaker 1: sends them to Disneyland. But word spread that they were recording,
Speaker 1: that they were going to be coming, and people started
Speaker 1: dropping in on the recording sessions. Steven Spielberg pops his
Speaker 1: head in Sidney Pollock pops his head because the filmmakers
Speaker 1: they wanted to hear what was happening. And Zwick and
Speaker 1: the crew that were there during the recordings, they were
Speaker 1: constantly in tears during the sessions, and if you listen
Speaker 1: you can understand why. But everybody kind of just had
Speaker 1: this sense that, Okay, whatever's happening, this is special. And
Speaker 1: so the final assault on Fort Wagner without that score,
Speaker 1: it's just a battle scene. But with the score, with
Speaker 1: the Boys choir with all of the things that are
Speaker 1: happening in that it becomes a memory. Here's one of
Speaker 1: my takes. Go back and listen to I believe the
Speaker 1: piece is called Attack on Fort Wagner, but it's from
Speaker 1: the soundtrack. It's very clear which one it's talking about.
Speaker 1: To me, it sounds a lot like Temple of Doom,
Speaker 1: and I found myself wanting to sing Ramu Ta Rama
Speaker 1: type over the top of it. I don't know, did
Speaker 1: it remind you of anything.
Speaker 2: You had sent me a text asking me to be
Speaker 2: aware of this and listen, and yeah, I didn't think
Speaker 2: about Temple of Doom, but yeah, I get what you're
Speaker 2: saying with that. I was actually thinking more of O
Speaker 2: Fortuna from Carmina Burana and even a little bit of
Speaker 2: Duel of the Fates from Star Warckers and hekay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know the climactic chorus with the orchestra, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: those are my two picks.
Speaker 1: The memorable piece to me is not Assault on Fort Wagner.
Speaker 1: It's a piece called Epitaph to War. I intentionally did
Speaker 1: not go and listen to the soundtrack as I was
Speaker 1: kind of putting all of this together because sometimes when
Speaker 1: I think, oh, this sounds like this, then I go
Speaker 1: and compare it. My brain, thinking I want to find
Speaker 1: the connection, starts finding the dissimilarities. So I didn't want
Speaker 1: that to happen. But Epitaph to War I could recall,
Speaker 1: like when I see I watched Glory, I don't know,
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks weks ago for the first time,
Speaker 1: probably in ten or fifteen years, and I remembered Epitaph
Speaker 1: to War. I remembered that melody. I remembered those voices,
Speaker 1: just the haunting vocal harmonies, and it stayed with me.
Speaker 1: I love that piece. Glory wasn't a blockbuster. Its production
Speaker 1: budget was approximately eighteen million, its worldwide box office was
Speaker 1: only around twenty seven million, so by Hollywood standards, it
Speaker 1: was successful like it, you know, out competed its budget,
Speaker 1: But it wasn't the movie everyone was talking about in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, and we've mentioned those movies earlier. It
Speaker 1: didn't dominate popular culture. It didn't become an instant franchised,
Speaker 1: but it quietly found an audience, and then it found another,
Speaker 1: and then it found another. Schools began showing it history,
Speaker 1: teachers began adopting it. College classrooms used it, military historians
Speaker 1: discussed it, and generations of students encountered the fifty fourth
Speaker 1: mass choose its through this film. And I think you
Speaker 1: gave the best example of this, a movie that you
Speaker 1: had not even seen. Your twenty six year old son
Speaker 1: comes in and he says, hey, Dad, you need to
Speaker 1: know about this movie. And he probably wasn't twenty six,
Speaker 1: It probably wasn't recently. It was probably years ago.
Speaker 2: It was back when he was in high school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, there, there you go. So he
Speaker 1: saw it in school and said, man, this is fantastic. Dad,
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta check this out. You gotta watch this.
Speaker 1: Its cultural influence eventually became much larger than its commercial footprint. Well, Dirk,
Speaker 1: do you have a countdown for us right here? I
Speaker 1: know you love countdowns. Yeah, I love love countdowns. But
Speaker 1: I think this kind of paints a picture of where
Speaker 1: Glory fit in nineteen eighty nine. Okay, so I'm looking
Speaker 1: at the box office for the weekend of December twenty
Speaker 1: second through the twenty fourth, nineteen eighty nine. Number one
Speaker 1: will not surprise anyone. It was National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.
Speaker 2: Number two. I have to admit I was actually contributing
Speaker 2: to this one being number two. I went to go
Speaker 2: see number two on Christmas Eve. It was Tango and Cash,
Speaker 2: Sylvester Stallone and Kirk Russell.
Speaker 1: And you remember that specifically eighty nine Christmas Eve, you
Speaker 1: went and saw it.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I'll tell you why. Again. This was my
Speaker 2: senior year, and as with a lot of you out there,
Speaker 2: you probably have a lot of family traditions, and we,
Speaker 2: of course had family traditions. For Christmas Eve. You spent
Speaker 2: it with your parents, You open the one present, you
Speaker 2: watch the Christmas movie, you hung out as a family. Well,
Speaker 2: I had some friends that wanted we got our driver's
Speaker 2: licenses now, and we wanted to go see something or
Speaker 2: do something. And they said, we're going to go see
Speaker 2: Tangoing Cash. And I said, okay, can I go see
Speaker 2: Tangoing Cash? And my parents, being awesome who they were,
Speaker 2: they said sure and they let me go. And so
Speaker 2: that was sort of the beginning of me kind of
Speaker 2: doing more of my own stuff and kind of leaving
Speaker 2: the nest. Before I left the nest, that was just
Speaker 2: one It's the only reason I really distinctly remember that
Speaker 2: was when we saw that very nice number.
Speaker 1: What's go ahead? Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2: Number three was War the Roses with Michael Douglas and gosh,
Speaker 2: I'm drawing a blank a Kathleen Turner. Kathleen, I just
Speaker 2: want to say, ye, Kathleen Turner, Yes, War the Roses.
Speaker 2: Do you want to know where Glory fits in on
Speaker 2: the box office for that weekend?
Speaker 1: Was it number four? No?
Speaker 2: Try again?
Speaker 1: Was it top ten?
Speaker 2: No, I'll give you one more guess.
Speaker 1: Tell me I have no clue.
Speaker 2: It was number thirty four. And as you just said,
Speaker 2: it grossed over one hundred thousand, so.
Speaker 1: Well, which yeah, I mean one hundred thousand, that's all
Speaker 1: what five people went and saw it in each city?
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: This, Well, you said the box office was twenty seven million,
Speaker 2: so yeah, clearly under one hundred thousand.
Speaker 1: But that's not much. Well one hundred thousand, that's one
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: No, I'm saying Glory was under that mark. You had
Speaker 2: already said it was twenty seven thousand, that had earned.
Speaker 1: No, twenty seven million. That it earned twenty seven million,
Speaker 1: so its budget was eighteen million. It earned twenty seven
Speaker 1: million worldwide.
Speaker 2: Okay, I better understand. No, this weekend. It earned about
Speaker 2: like sixty five thousand dollars or something. It was very
Speaker 2: small in.
Speaker 1: A box of Crocker Jacks. So this is not the
Speaker 1: first movie that we've discussed that it did okay in theaters,
Speaker 1: but it kind of took on second life later. Can
Speaker 1: you what are the ones that we covered that talked
Speaker 1: about that dirt?
Speaker 2: Gosh, it's almost all of them. I mean, you got
Speaker 2: to start with Star Wars. They didn't think that was
Speaker 2: going to do near what it did. You've got Caddy Shack.
Speaker 2: Caddy Shack, that's the one I'm thinking of, and you've
Speaker 2: got spinal Tap. Spinal Tap has lived way longer than
Speaker 2: anyone ever dreamed it would have been. So but I
Speaker 2: think out of those, it's got to be Caddy Shack
Speaker 2: for the slam Dunk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it kind of took on new life with
Speaker 1: cable and VHS and that kind of thing, Right, Am
Speaker 1: I remembering that one? Yes?
Speaker 2: And I would say it's the most main stream of
Speaker 2: all the ones we've talked about so far. A lot
Speaker 2: of people love Spinal Tap, a lot of people love
Speaker 2: Airplane That there's something about Candy Shack that everybody knows about.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and shout out to our third episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, shout out to us.
Speaker 1: Clearly, clearly, there's no accident on legend here, it's just us.
Speaker 1: So here's what I think maybe the movie's greatest accomplishment.
Speaker 1: Before Glory, the fifty fourth Massachusetts was a subject for historians.
Speaker 1: No one knew about the fifty fourth. I sure didn't.
Speaker 1: You didn't. I mean, we were, you know, seventeen eighteen
Speaker 1: years old. After Glory, people studied African American Civil War history,
Speaker 1: Black Civil War reenactors multiplied, New monuments were built. The
Speaker 1: African American Civil War Memorial and Museum opened in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. Scholars started digging deeper into archives. And let
Speaker 1: me say this, A lot of Glory is based on
Speaker 1: a couple of books that were written in you know,
Speaker 1: twenty but also the letters of Robert shawp. So it
Speaker 1: has some pretty clear historical precedents for what happened. So
Speaker 1: one historian observed that because of the popular interest generated
Speaker 1: by Glory, Americans became more aware that freedom was not
Speaker 1: simply bestowed. Many fought and died for it. Even the
Speaker 1: title Dirk carries Weight. So on July twenty eighth, eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty three, In the addition, in that day's edition of
Speaker 1: the Columbus Inquirer, which I believe is Columbus, Ohio Shout
Speaker 1: out Columbus, it reported that first Sergeant Robert John Simmons
Speaker 1: came to fight for glory. He later wrote, and this
Speaker 1: was the quote, God has protected me through this my
Speaker 1: first fiery leaden trial, and I do give him the glory.
Speaker 1: So that one word, it means something very different.
Speaker 2: After you know the story, that's pretty incredible. Let me
Speaker 2: ask you this question, Matt, do you think do you
Speaker 2: think a movie can actually change history? And I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about the facts. I'm thinking more the way people
Speaker 2: remember the facts.
Speaker 1: I definitely think it can change perception. That's what's been
Speaker 1: happening with movies for the last certainly the last twenty years.
Speaker 1: Perception can shift because of a movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I think this
Speaker 2: is a good tool that movies and TV mini series
Speaker 2: and things can do is get into the micro history,
Speaker 2: you know, get out of the weeds of what's in
Speaker 2: the book, and say what about this one moment, and
Speaker 2: that one moment can really open your eyes change your
Speaker 2: perception of I neverly thought about it that way. You know,
Speaker 2: it kind of grounds you more at a human level.
Speaker 1: Well, and I really like that you call it a
Speaker 1: micro history because I'm thinking about the movie Gettysburg. It
Speaker 1: came out in nineteen ninety three. It was the kind
Speaker 1: of the overall, here's what happened at Gettysburg, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna follow General Lee, We're gonna follow Stonewall Jackson, we're
Speaker 1: gonna follow you know, Longstreet, and we're gonna follow Chamberlain,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna look at all these different angles in
Speaker 1: the same battle. You know. I talked to our Hurley
Speaker 1: boy this week, Jason and d of the shirlead You
Speaker 1: Can't Be Serious podcasts, and I said, you guys need
Speaker 1: to do Glory versus Gettysburg. I think that would be
Speaker 1: a fantastic matchup because the approach to both movies is
Speaker 1: so different, you know. And we could probably do Gettysburg
Speaker 1: ourselves because Gettysburg it's a four hour, flipping movie, but
Speaker 1: it's kind of got this cult following and has really
Speaker 1: upped the awareness of Gettysburg. In the Battle of Gettysburg
Speaker 1: if you can up it. I mean, it's got a
Speaker 1: you know, a speech named after it. But I told
Speaker 1: them I said, this would be a great versus episode
Speaker 1: because they're so different in the philosophies behind they're making.
Speaker 1: We're so different. You've got this overall general bird's eye.
Speaker 1: We're going to cover everything versus the micro history, and
Speaker 1: I think it would be fascinating.
Speaker 2: Well, you heard it right here, gentlemen. Make it so.
Speaker 1: There you go, there you go. And you know, while
Speaker 1: we're talking about Shirley, they suggested an episode for us
Speaker 1: back in their Rio Speedwagon episode on high infidelity, and
Speaker 1: I have picked up that challenge and that is going
Speaker 1: to be featured this season on Accidental Legends. Shout out
Speaker 1: to Shirley. You can't be serious.
Speaker 2: Sounds good, all right. So here's the paradox.
Speaker 1: Most people can't quote the dialogue from this movie at all.
Speaker 1: Most people don't remember the box office, but they remember,
Speaker 1: they remember trips flogging, they remember the charge on Fort Wagner,
Speaker 1: they remember the mass grave. And very few films create
Speaker 1: images that become part of a national historical imagination, and
Speaker 1: that's what Glory did. So in recognition of that legacy,
Speaker 1: the film was selected for preservation in the National Film
Speaker 1: Registry in twenty thirteen. It's an honor reserve for films
Speaker 1: considered culturally, historically, and esthetically significant. And so that is
Speaker 1: perhaps the ultimate confirmation that Glory stopped being just a
Speaker 1: movie and it became part of the American historical record. Dirk,
Speaker 1: do you know anything about the National Film Registry? Can
Speaker 1: you shed any light on that?
Speaker 2: Well, it's a registry that keeps a log of national films. Now,
Speaker 2: I really, you know, shame on me. I really should
Speaker 2: of all people do it, lest I should know about
Speaker 2: the National Film Registry, But I think you've just given
Speaker 2: me a homework assignment. Embarrassing here, But.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you pre episode what to study before
Speaker 1: all of this, Dirk. I can't do your job in
Speaker 1: mind too.
Speaker 2: I'll get some text on this later.
Speaker 6: Hey guys, this is Jen Dirk's wife. Since I'm on
Speaker 6: summer break from teaching, I thought i'd just dial in
Speaker 6: and help you guys out since you needed a little
Speaker 6: help with the National Film Registry. You know, Derk, I
Speaker 6: kind of expect more from a varsity film student.
Speaker 4: You got a degree in our tvf.
Speaker 6: Anyway, the big picture summary is that it was to
Speaker 6: protect the film heritage, and it was the Library of Congress.
Speaker 4: That passed and act It was the Act in the
Speaker 4: Reagan administration. It was put into law Public Law one
Speaker 4: zero zero four four six. It was signed by President
Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan in September twenty seventh, nineteen eighty eight. It
Speaker 4: was to protect and preserve important American films from lost,
Speaker 4: decay and alteration.
Speaker 6: And it wasn't just Hollywood films. It was also documentaries,
Speaker 6: home videos, and the National Film Preservation Act was run
Speaker 6: by the Library of Congress. So it started in eighty eight.
Speaker 6: They decided to add only up to twenty five films,
Speaker 6: and it was to kind of preserve our American culture.
Speaker 6: And funny that you should mention Glory. Glory was just
Speaker 6: selected in the twenty twenty five class and it was
Speaker 6: over thirty six years later. Now there were some silent
Speaker 6: films like Lady in the Tramp that was from the
Speaker 6: eighteen hundreds. I believe we'd have to check me on
Speaker 6: that one. But it's supposed to serve as the permanent
Speaker 6: cultural archive, so people that own the films would donate them.
Speaker 6: They really wanted to preserve it in its natural film state.
Speaker 4: They didn't want it to be altered.
Speaker 6: So a lot of people did not like the colorizing
Speaker 6: of black of Mike Films because it did not preserve
Speaker 6: its original format. Just let me know if you need
Speaker 6: a tutorial later on that. I could definitely do another
Speaker 6: deep dive, haven't I say? Guys?
Speaker 1: Glory was not just an accidental legend in terms of
Speaker 1: its longevity, but it won some awards. It won five
Speaker 1: nomination for Oscars. It got three wins, including Denzel Washington's
Speaker 1: Best Supporting Actor. It won Best Cinematography, and I wasn't
Speaker 1: sure what the third one was. But three Academy Awards
Speaker 1: but five nomination. We mentioned already the standard classroom film
Speaker 1: and arguably introduced more Americans than to the fifty fourth
Speaker 1: Massachusetts than any single history textbook of the late twentieth century.
Speaker 2: So one final, Matt, I want to jump in. I
Speaker 2: have the third award. It was Best Sound. Okay, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: so that's the three best sound.
Speaker 1: Yes, most Civil War movies tell us how battles were fought.
Speaker 1: Glory asked who had been left out of the story,
Speaker 1: and history has been answering that question ever since. And
Speaker 1: maybe that is the definition of an accidental legend. Not
Speaker 1: a movie that makes the most money, a movie that
Speaker 1: changes what a nation remembers. There are movies that make money,
Speaker 1: there are movies that win awards, and there are movies
Speaker 1: that quietly changed the way a country remembers itself. Glory
Speaker 1: didn't become a legend because it was perfect, because historians
Speaker 1: debate its accuracy. Timelines were compressed, characters were combined, they
Speaker 1: had an aachronistic stuff in it. But it accomplished something
Speaker 1: extraordinarily rare. It became the public memory of the fifty
Speaker 1: fourth Massachusetts. And that's why we're still talking about not
Speaker 1: because it conquered the box office, but because a chance
Speaker 1: encounter with a monument in Boston became the movie that
Speaker 1: taught millions of Americans that freedom was not simply bestowed.
Speaker 1: It was fought for. And many of the men who
Speaker 1: fought for it had been forgotten until Glory remembered them.
Speaker 1: And I love that, and that's why it's been an
Speaker 1: accident in a legend today. Derk any final closing thoughts
Speaker 1: on Glory for.
Speaker 2: You, none for me other than I just want to
Speaker 2: say good find. I'm really glad you picked this up.
Speaker 2: When you first told me about it, I thought, well,
Speaker 2: this could be a challenge because it just was not
Speaker 2: on my radar. So thank you. It was exciting, It
Speaker 2: was really it was really good talking about this.
Speaker 1: So what do you have in store for us next week?
Speaker 2: Derk, Well, unfortunately I don't have any coincidental dates or
Speaker 2: weeks like that, but we are going to stay into
Speaker 2: the movie industry. We're gonna get back into songs later.
Speaker 2: But next week, let's talk about family, and let's talk
Speaker 2: about loyalty. Let's talk about The Godfather and the movie
Speaker 2: that almost was not what it.
Speaker 1: Became okay, which is kind of like another way to
Speaker 1: say an accidental legend.
Speaker 2: Indeed, So that's going to rip.
Speaker 1: It for us, guys. Thank you so much, uch for listening.
Speaker 1: Thank you for supporting us and listening and giving your
Speaker 1: time to our little project, our little labor of love,
Speaker 1: and listen like, subscribe, follow, get notified when we drop episodes.
Speaker 1: We drop them every week on Tuesday night at midnight.
Speaker 1: Text us, email us at Accidental Legends pod at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. But most of all, have a great week,
Speaker 1: and thanks for being here.
Speaker 2: Hope you guys come back and Matt I'll talk to
Speaker 2: you next week as well.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, see ya,