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Speaker 6: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 6: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 6: written about him Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 6: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 6: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 6: journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 3: Good Evening. Discover the dark side of human nature with
Speaker 3: Blood on the Tracks. This true crime book takes you
Speaker 3: on a journey through the most heinous murder cases in history,
Speaker 3: including unsolved mysteries that will leave you wondering. Each story
Speaker 3: is expertly researched and crafted to provide a captivating account
Speaker 3: of the events leading up to the crime and the
Speaker 3: investigation that followed. From the infamous Thanksgiving massacre to the
Speaker 3: shocking case of the vanishing bride and groom to the
Speaker 3: unbelievable story of a dominatrix center doppelganger. Blood on the
Speaker 3: Tracks leaves no stone unturned. As you turn each page,
Speaker 3: you'll feel the tension and suspense build as you try
Speaker 3: to piece together the clues and solve the case alongside
Speaker 3: the investigators. Don't miss out on this captivating journey through
Speaker 3: the world of murder and mystery. The book that we're
Speaker 3: featuring this evening is Blood on the Tracks, Real life
Speaker 3: tales of murder and Mystery with my special guests, journalist
Speaker 3: and author Rod Cackley. Welcome back to the program, and
Speaker 3: thank you very much for this interview, Rod Cackley.
Speaker 7: Bie, Dan, thanks a lot for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Welcome back. Thank you so much for this interview for
Speaker 3: this new edition Blood on the Tracks. First off, and
Speaker 3: in the introduction, we talked about that this true crime
Speaker 3: book takes us on a journey through the most heinous
Speaker 3: murder cases in history, including unsolved mysteries that will leave
Speaker 3: you wondering. I might seem obvious, but what was the
Speaker 3: criteria for this book and what are some just a
Speaker 3: couple of the infamous murderers that are featured.
Speaker 7: Well, I think, Dan, what I was really looking at.
Speaker 7: Here are stories of murder that could happen to you.
Speaker 7: Quite honestly, you brush up in this book against crimes
Speaker 7: that could happen to you or someone you love that
Speaker 7: could happen in your neighborhood. Like the first one we
Speaker 7: were going to talk about, the murder of Ashley Wadsworth,
Speaker 7: is the story of a young girl who goes to
Speaker 7: England to meet the man she fell in love with online.
Speaker 7: And another thing is usually the killers in these stories,
Speaker 7: the criminals, they're first timers. Okay, these are not people
Speaker 7: for the most part, who have killed before, or maybe
Speaker 7: have not even committed a serious crime before, certainly not
Speaker 7: a felony. We do look at others who are serial
Speaker 7: killers in this book, but all stories of crimes that
Speaker 7: could happen to you or someone you love.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the murder of Ashley Wadsworth for the
Speaker 3: very first story. How you say so not involving infamous
Speaker 3: serial killers whatsoever. And you talk about this Ashley Wadsworth
Speaker 3: from Vernon, British Columbia, Canada. And they had met when
Speaker 3: she was twelve and he was fifteen and just a
Speaker 3: platonic relationship online. He lived in Essex County in England
Speaker 3: and she lived in Vernon, b C. Like I had mentioned,
Speaker 3: and so they had this online relationship. Tell us at
Speaker 3: what point this relationship changes and as as far as
Speaker 3: a trip that she is going to go and venture
Speaker 3: on to England to meet Jack. Simple.
Speaker 7: When she turned nineteen, Dan Ashley got a six month
Speaker 7: visa to meet Jack in person. She flew from Canada
Speaker 7: to England. This happened during her gap year, and at
Speaker 7: first it was just as amazing as idyllic as she
Speaker 7: could have. This is right out of a storybook to
Speaker 7: begin with. But then Jack a guy who's a big guy,
Speaker 7: one of the thick necked kind of guys. Big shoulders.
Speaker 7: I mean, the shoulders are so big you almost have
Speaker 7: to look at him one at a time. Okay, heavily
Speaker 7: tattooed arm. She sent some pictures back online to her
Speaker 7: friends and family in Canada that showed she and Jack
Speaker 7: were having a great time. But quickly everything goes wrong.
Speaker 7: Jack turns violent, she lashes out at Ashley. Then Ashley
Speaker 7: starts sending messages back home, writing in code because Jack
Speaker 7: is monitoring everything. She writes, everything, she texts and tweets
Speaker 7: back home. He's monitoring all of it. So he's a
Speaker 7: very controlling individual. Now he's become very controlling. He's psychologically,
Speaker 7: mentally and even physically abusive toward Ashley. She's on a
Speaker 7: six month visa. She has no way to go at home.
Speaker 7: He's got her tickets home. She can't just fly back,
Speaker 7: so she's got to live this out. She's got to
Speaker 7: get through this somehow.
Speaker 3: He also resorts to she had made some friends while
Speaker 3: she was on this brief trip, and now this trip
Speaker 3: was going to be cut short. She was planning to
Speaker 3: stay till April, but now she was making plans to
Speaker 3: cut this trip short, and she was going to leave
Speaker 3: February third. But in the interim, she also was sending
Speaker 3: messages to friends she had met in England to warn
Speaker 3: them to try to get them to contact police because
Speaker 3: she was afraid of Jack and afraid of this impending
Speaker 3: leading sooner than she had planned.
Speaker 7: Yeah, two days before she was going to go home
Speaker 7: on the third. On the first, February one, twenty twenty two,
Speaker 7: Ashley walks to a neighbor's house, knocks at the door,
Speaker 7: and as soon as the door opens, Ashley tells the
Speaker 7: person inside that she's afraid Jack is going to kill her.
Speaker 7: The neighbor, of course, was concerned to walk Ashley back
Speaker 7: to Jack's apartment, even though that Ashley said she was
Speaker 7: afraid Jack is going to kill her. Then go back
Speaker 7: to Jack's apartment, and there Jack assures the neighbor that
Speaker 7: he and Ashley had simply had a lover's quarrel. Everything's
Speaker 7: okay and there was nobody and she was not in
Speaker 7: danger at all. Well, then Ashley grabs Jack's Facebook account
Speaker 7: to send messages back home, or rather to people she'd
Speaker 7: met in England and pleading for their help. He wanted
Speaker 7: them to dial nine nine nine, the number four police
Speaker 7: assistants in England. A couple of the friends in Essex.
Speaker 7: They come to Jack's apartment to check on Ashley. They
Speaker 7: knock on the door, but the door does not open,
Speaker 7: so they called nine nine nine four police assistance. Meanwhile,
Speaker 7: a fight breaks out in the apartment. Neighbors can hear
Speaker 7: the sounds of this horrendous fight and they too start
Speaker 7: calling nine nine nine police arrive. Jack won't let them
Speaker 7: in the apartment. He refuses to even answer the door.
Speaker 7: The police officers are forced to use a battering ram
Speaker 7: to get inside.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, they use a battering ram and they find
Speaker 3: Jack alive, but Ashley dead.
Speaker 7: Ashley's dead. She's in bed, laying in the bed Assex
Speaker 7: police talk to Jack at the time when they broke in.
Speaker 7: They find Ashley dead, they find Jack alive. But what's
Speaker 7: Jack doing. He's on a FaceTime Paul to his sister,
Speaker 7: showing her the body. Credible, He's showing Ashley's body on
Speaker 7: FaceTime to his sister. And as there ought is a
Speaker 7: god awful, bloody mess. Ashley was stabbed ninety times. The
Speaker 7: autompsy would show Ashley suffered stab wounds to her stomach, liver, lungs,
Speaker 7: and heart. Her face, neck, legs, and arms were bruised.
Speaker 7: Jack immediately, you know, Jack offers no explanation to the
Speaker 7: police except to say, I'm sorry. I strangled her and
Speaker 7: I stabbed her. I went psychotic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, incredible, no explanation whatsoever. Let's talk about another extraordinary tale,
Speaker 3: the murder of Sidney Sutherland. And this is August eighteenth,
Speaker 3: twenty twenty Jackson County, Arkansas, a place called Tuckerman, and
Speaker 3: this is Sydney. She did this. Has come back from
Speaker 3: a little I guess, a little vacation, little trip her
Speaker 3: and her family. And Sidney is a dedicated runner and
Speaker 3: decides to go for a run down this country road
Speaker 3: forty one. He's a twenty five year old. And then
Speaker 3: you write about Meanwhile, a guy named Quake Lillowin is
Speaker 3: also on Jackson County Road number forty one. He's twenty
Speaker 3: eight years old. Tell us about this intersection of these
Speaker 3: two people. They had gone to the same little high school.
Speaker 3: They sort of knew each other, but not very well.
Speaker 3: Tell us what happens that one day on Jackson County
Speaker 3: Road for forty one.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Tuckerman is one of those small towns where everybody
Speaker 7: knows a little bit about everybody else. So they knew
Speaker 7: each other. They were familiar with each other. They had
Speaker 7: been in the same high school at the same time,
Speaker 7: but they weren't really close. However, as we'll find out,
Speaker 7: Wake wanted to be a lot closer to Sydney than
Speaker 7: Sydney ever imagined him to be. Now, these two, their
Speaker 7: lives are not going on a parallel course, even though
Speaker 7: they live in the same town and they're about the
Speaker 7: same age. Quake is working for his family's business. They
Speaker 7: owned rice fields, and rice fields are very big in Arkansas.
Speaker 7: His whole day involves driving around in a GMC pickup
Speaker 7: trucks checking the rice farms his family's rice farm in Arkansas,
Speaker 7: checking the wells and the rice field. So that's what
Speaker 7: he's doing on County Road forty one. Now, Sydney is
Speaker 7: about to begin the second chapter of her life. She's
Speaker 7: just passed her boards and is now a registered nurse
Speaker 7: at Unity Harris Medical Center. So she's going off in
Speaker 7: a different path, of professional path, if you will, and
Speaker 7: she's going out for something she does every day. She's
Speaker 7: going to run on Jackson County Road forty one.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 7: As you said, she and her family just got back
Speaker 7: from a vacation in Florida and they still had a
Speaker 7: cargo unpack and laundry to do. Her mom, Maggie, begged
Speaker 7: Sydney not to run this day for some reason. She said,
Speaker 7: we've been gone, you need to rest. You just did
Speaker 7: an hour long hard workout. She worked out with a
Speaker 7: train or too. She's very physically involved. But Sydney would
Speaker 7: not change her mind. She would not listen to her mom.
Speaker 7: She went out for this run because, as Sydney put it,
Speaker 7: it just releases me. So she's on County Road forty
Speaker 7: one running. Quake is on County Road forty one driving
Speaker 7: his pickup truck. While Sidney was a high school cheerleader,
Speaker 7: Blonde Beautiful Quake was one of those middle of the
Speaker 7: road see student kids, but doesn't attract a lot of attention,
Speaker 7: either good nor bad. So they've got that too. Quake's
Speaker 7: mother and father divorced when he was young. She remarried.
Speaker 7: He is close to his stepfather, a real father figure
Speaker 7: in his life. No history of violence. There's another thing
Speaker 7: I was talking about. With most of the criminals in
Speaker 7: this book, I put together, he has no history of violence.
Speaker 7: One fight at junior high, but that's kind of you know,
Speaker 7: that could be typical. Got through high school without any
Speaker 7: serious problems. So now he and Sydney are going to intersect.
Speaker 7: Their lives will intersect County Road forty one. He sees
Speaker 7: her running. He recognizes her immediately. He passes Sydney. They
Speaker 7: were Facebook friends for a while, so they know each other,
Speaker 7: but they're not close howls or anything. He turns his
Speaker 7: truck around after passing her while she's jogging on the
Speaker 7: County Road forty one. He drives back towards her, but
Speaker 7: then there's a cloud of dust that kicks up and
Speaker 7: he can't see Sydney anymore. She disappears. Quake feels the
Speaker 7: impact he hits her. I don't know if you've very
Speaker 7: hit a deer on the road, but it's quite similar
Speaker 7: to that, I guess. Quake kicks Sydney with his pickup truck. He, though,
Speaker 7: is not sure what happens. Of course, he's hoping that
Speaker 7: the worst hasn't happened. He gets out of his truck
Speaker 7: to investigate, and he finds Sydney. He kneels down beside
Speaker 7: her broken body, asking if she's okay. She does not
Speaker 7: respond or Quake freaks out. He's out of his mind again.
Speaker 7: Nothing like this has ever happened to him, And what's
Speaker 7: he do? Does he run to a farmhouse for help,
Speaker 7: maybe grab his phone and call ninety one one?
Speaker 4: No, he does not.
Speaker 7: He picks up Sydney's broken body, puts her corpse in
Speaker 7: the bed of this pickup truck, and drives off. He's
Speaker 7: not looking for medical help. He's sure the woman is dead.
Speaker 3: Now what happens? He's still working. He's still on his shift,
Speaker 3: so feels compelled to continue his shift. So he finishes
Speaker 3: his shift, and then he goes home to a stepfather's
Speaker 3: house and has dinner.
Speaker 7: No, actually he goes to his house to have dinner.
Speaker 7: He goes to his family's home. He and his wife
Speaker 7: and her kids, who how he treats as his own. Now,
Speaker 7: Quake now is hoping that if he ignores this, if
Speaker 7: he forgets about it, it will be like it never happened. Okay.
Speaker 7: So he takes the body, and as we write in
Speaker 7: the book, he undresses the corpse and messes around with
Speaker 7: it before burying it in a shower grave. But now
Speaker 7: he's hoping that if he can forget about all this,
Speaker 7: that it will never have happened. Okay. So he goes
Speaker 7: home like nothing special is going on. He sits down
Speaker 7: with his wife and step kids and his parents home
Speaker 7: and where he does live with his parents and his
Speaker 7: step parents, as he said, and cleans up, takes a shower,
Speaker 7: has dinner, and then after they finish, his father calls.
Speaker 7: His father says, you know everybody's talking about Sidney Sutherland.
Speaker 7: She's disappeared. Have you seen her? If you've heard she
Speaker 7: was missing, did you know that she disappeared? And Quake says,
Speaker 7: I have not heard the stories, but I did see
Speaker 7: Sydney running on County Road forty one. It looked like
Speaker 7: she was going home. After that, he goes to bed again.
Speaker 7: He's going His plan is that he's going to pretend
Speaker 7: that this didn't happen.
Speaker 3: Now you write that Quake. Meanwhile, Sidney's boyfriend calls Sydney's mother, Maggie,
Speaker 3: and he's in concern that she's not returning his calls,
Speaker 3: and Maggie calls Sydney and there's a voicemail, and the
Speaker 3: mother knows that something is wrong. Around seven pm, she
Speaker 3: calls police, and you write that news of the disappearance
Speaker 3: spreads quickly across northeast Arkansas and detectives start investigating. Tell
Speaker 3: us about how the parents get involved in doubting their
Speaker 3: son in the first place, and that how that leads
Speaker 3: to the word getting out that he had actually seen
Speaker 3: Sydney that day running and which led to more and
Speaker 3: more questions.
Speaker 7: Yeah, there is, as he said, no sign of Sydney.
Speaker 7: This is August twentieth. Now, Sam, her boyfriend, gets a
Speaker 7: call from a friend. He tells him that Quake might
Speaker 7: know something. The friend says, Quake told me he saw
Speaker 7: Sydney running south on County Road forty one two days ago,
Speaker 7: like she was heading home. And if that's true, it
Speaker 7: means Quake was the last one to see Sydney alive,
Speaker 7: or last one to see Sydney. Nobody now knows she's
Speaker 7: dead yet, except for Quake. They go out. The troopers
Speaker 7: go out to the field where to search. They find
Speaker 7: Sydney's stone in a field about a mile from the
Speaker 7: Sutherland family home. Unfortunately, that's the only good news today.
Speaker 7: If ground search shows nothing, they've exhausted all of their leads. Well,
Speaker 7: Maggie and her friends turn out. Hundreds of people actually
Speaker 7: turn out to search for Sydney. They find nothing, But
Speaker 7: you know what happens when they're searching, Maggie looks over
Speaker 7: and sees Quake standing by a tree. Maggie knows something's off.
Speaker 7: It's like he's lurking there. She goes over to talk
Speaker 7: to him and says, and she knows that Sam's friend
Speaker 7: said that Quake might have been the last person to
Speaker 7: see Sydney the day she disappeared. And Maggie asks Quake
Speaker 7: if she can tell him, if he can tell her anything,
Speaker 7: like what was Sidney doing? Did you meet anybody? Was
Speaker 7: she with anyone? Quake said no, she was just running.
Speaker 7: But you didn't see her, right, Maggie says, And Quake
Speaker 7: doesn't speak, but he just nods to indicate the answer
Speaker 7: is yes. And he just says all she was doing
Speaker 7: was running. Well, then Maggie can't think of anything else
Speaker 7: to say, but at the same time, she doesn't believe
Speaker 7: Quake is telling her the truth. She's about to ask
Speaker 7: one more question. Quake steps forward. Now, Quake is a
Speaker 7: very big.
Speaker 4: Guy, all right.
Speaker 7: He's like well over six feet tall. He's like three
Speaker 7: hundred pounds. He's a big dude. He walks up and
Speaker 7: gives Maggie a hug. It's not like a full embrace.
Speaker 7: It's just like a quick, embarrassed squeeze, like two strangers,
Speaker 7: perhaps two people who haven't seen each other in a
Speaker 7: long time. And that really flips Maggie out. She just
Speaker 7: like is shivering as Quake walks away. She just knows
Speaker 7: something is going on here involving Quake. Now, Quake's father,
Speaker 7: as you said, his father gets suspicious because he knows
Speaker 7: Quake was driving on the road where Sydney was last scene.
Speaker 7: And again he asks Quake if he knows anything about
Speaker 7: what happened. And Quake's mother is suspicious too. So the
Speaker 7: first thing they do is Quake and his father go
Speaker 7: to the Arkansas State Police Post to talk to detectives
Speaker 7: there and they give troopers permission to search the truck.
Speaker 7: They have no lawyer now, they just give him permission,
Speaker 7: the troopers rather permission to search the truck. Both Quake's
Speaker 7: father and mother are suspicious at this time.
Speaker 3: As you said, the forensic team goes to work. He
Speaker 3: gives permission to search the vehicle. So and is what
Speaker 3: do they find? The forensic team when they search that vehicle.
Speaker 7: They find blood in the cracks of the truck's tailgate,
Speaker 7: and they find a dent in the front of the
Speaker 7: twenty nineteen GMC pickup truck. The blood in the tailgate
Speaker 7: that's where he put her body. That's where he put
Speaker 7: Sydney's body after he picked her up off the road.
Speaker 7: So that's where the blood comes from. And the dent
Speaker 7: obviously makes them suspicios as well. And then Crestin Hutton,
Speaker 7: who's a senior special agent on this from the Arkansas
Speaker 7: State Police, he takes a look at Quigg's phone and
Speaker 7: Quake it hands it over to him. Again, no lawyer, president, right,
Speaker 7: That's another thing in this book. You'll find that a
Speaker 7: lot of these the criminals in this they don't have
Speaker 7: lawyers with them. They don't Hutton tabs the Life three
Speaker 7: sixty phone app on Quig's phone. He traces Quigg's movements
Speaker 7: on the nineteenth, and that shows that he and Sidney
Speaker 7: were very close together according to what Sidney's phone showed.
Speaker 3: There's also the app leads them very close to the
Speaker 3: point a few yards from where they'll find her corpse
Speaker 3: buried in the field. But at this shallow gravesite troopers
Speaker 3: see footprints from the same kinds of boots that he
Speaker 3: would wear at work and that he was wearing at
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 7: Yeah, right, exactly, He's actually wearing the same boot still,
Speaker 7: so again, he's obviously not a hard and criminal who
Speaker 7: knows how to beat the system. They read him as
Speaker 7: Miranda writes. The app leads them to just a few
Speaker 7: yards from where they will find Sidney's corps eventually buried
Speaker 7: in the field. They read him as Miranda writes. He
Speaker 7: can't handle the guilt. He confesses it all. He says
Speaker 7: it was all just a blur. I didn't kill her
Speaker 7: on purpose. He's asked, why didn't you call nine to
Speaker 7: one one. Quaid says that I don't know. I was
Speaker 7: just scared.
Speaker 3: You have the idea too, that at the same time,
Speaker 3: Sam and Maggie worrying about their daughter. In a group
Speaker 3: of searchers searching for their daughter. Sam gets a call
Speaker 3: from Sheriff Lucas. Doesn't he yes.
Speaker 7: Sheriff Lucas calls with one of the toughest calls he's
Speaker 7: ever had to make. As you said, Maggie, Sam, and
Speaker 7: hundreds of people, they're back on County Road forty one
Speaker 7: this morning. They're on their hands and knees, literally crawling
Speaker 7: looking for clues that might show that Sidney was at
Speaker 7: least there. One of the women there, one of the friends, says,
Speaker 7: explains it explains the hundreds of people who showed up
Speaker 7: by saying Jackson County is just this way. We just
Speaker 7: want her to be safe, referring to Sydney, of course,
Speaker 7: and to be found. And finally Maggie shouts, I have
Speaker 7: a bea from a necklace. He finds a bead from
Speaker 7: the necklace that she knows Sidney was wearing, so she
Speaker 7: knows Sidney had been in that area. But then, as
Speaker 7: he said, Sheriff Lucas calls Sam's phone, and Lucas won't
Speaker 7: tell him why they need to talk. He just says, Sam,
Speaker 7: you and Maggie the whole family. Please get everyone together,
Speaker 7: we need to talk. So there they have to get
Speaker 7: into Sam's car and they drive to the Jackson County
Speaker 7: Sheriff's office, which had to be the longest, most difficult
Speaker 7: drive of Sam's life. He knows in his heart what
Speaker 7: they're going to hear. There's only one reason that Sheriff
Speaker 7: Lucas would be calling them. If he'd found Sydney alive,
Speaker 7: he would have shouted that over the phone, but he didn't.
Speaker 7: So they know. They know what Sheriff Lucas is going
Speaker 7: to tell them, but they have to drive to his
Speaker 7: office to hear it. And there Sheriff Lucas does perform
Speaker 7: the sad duty of explaining that Sydney has been found dead.
Speaker 3: He does psych evaluation, but he's found fortunately fit to
Speaker 3: stand trial. And then he is, as you write, he
Speaker 3: is sentenced to life in prison without parole. And he
Speaker 3: said he will die in prison.
Speaker 8: Right essentially, Yeah, And then you write about the victims
Speaker 8: statements and overpass on US sixty seven in Jackson County
Speaker 8: will be named in honor of Sydney Sutherland.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's what our local officials decided to do. The
Speaker 7: very emotional ceremony when they announced it, and Maggie at
Speaker 7: the time said, well, at least she will never be forgotten.
Speaker 7: We know that she will never be forgotten because of
Speaker 7: the plants that they're going to put up on that road.
Speaker 3: Let's use this rad as an opportunity to stop for
Speaker 3: a second of these messages.
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Speaker 4: See website for details.
Speaker 3: Now let's get to this next story. And it's Thanksgiving massacre.
Speaker 3: And you write this in an interesting style where you
Speaker 3: have an exciting, vivid scene right at the very beginning,
Speaker 3: and you say, this is how the story ended, and
Speaker 3: this is nine am, just after nine am, July fifteenth,
Speaker 3: twenty ten. Tell us about this tractor trailer rig and
Speaker 3: what it's doing and who's inside.
Speaker 7: A tractor trailer rig. Yeah, now I will tell you
Speaker 7: Dan before we really get going here. This was a
Speaker 7: story that was very personal to me. I didn't know
Speaker 7: any of the people involved, but I lived in the
Speaker 7: area where this happened, Muskegan, Michigan, where the murder happened,
Speaker 7: so I was there, you know, kind of watching it
Speaker 7: from afar the whole time. Now Here, it's twenty ten
Speaker 7: July fifteenth, nine o'clock in the morning, Like you said,
Speaker 7: a tractor trailer rig, big and powerful as they come.
Speaker 7: It's racing toward the razor wiretop double chain link fence
Speaker 7: that's surrounding the Kinioss Correctional Facility in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.
Speaker 7: Three convicted killers are inside that truck. They hijack this
Speaker 7: truck and they're hurtling toward the fence a desperate bid
Speaker 7: for freedom. They commandeered the rig. They overpowered the trucks
Speaker 7: driver got behind the wheel, ram through the gears and
Speaker 7: put the pedal down to the middle. This is like
Speaker 7: something you'd see in a high, high octane action adventure movie,
Speaker 7: but it really happened in the Upper Peninsula on this morning,
Speaker 7: July fifteenth, twenty ten. Prisoners. These guys are all in
Speaker 7: for life. They are going to spend the rest of
Speaker 7: their life in prison. So what do they have to lose.
Speaker 7: They have the weapons and the guards weapons that they took.
Speaker 7: The truck hits the fence after about one hundred yards
Speaker 7: and gets wrapped up in the chain link fenced comes
Speaker 7: to a screeching halt. The convicts inside do everything they
Speaker 7: tend to bust the truck out of the fencing, but
Speaker 7: it's no use. They run for it. Two of them,
Speaker 7: Brian Davison, convicted of beating a man to death, and
Speaker 7: Andrew Ross, who killed his parents and older brother, are
Speaker 7: quickly captured. But the third, Seth Pravaki, who the story
Speaker 7: is really about, shot in the head and dies almost instantly. Ironic,
Speaker 7: I write, because Seth admitted to killing four members of
Speaker 7: his family and his brother's girlfriend by shooting each of
Speaker 7: them one after another in the head, and that's how
Speaker 7: the story ends.
Speaker 3: Then you write, this is how the story begins, and
Speaker 3: you go to the last day of Thanksgiving weekend November
Speaker 3: twenty ninth, nineteen ninety eight, and you write that Seth
Speaker 3: Privokes is angry. He's eighteen years old and he's been
Speaker 3: arguing with his father. And you say, in fact, his father, Steven,
Speaker 3: who teaches fifth grade, threatens to kick Seth out of
Speaker 3: the family home in Dalton Township near Muskegon, Michigan. And
Speaker 3: he's six foot four and his parents described him as
Speaker 3: a good kid. But he's been some trouble lately. He's
Speaker 3: been using drugs booze, weed, LSD and then speed and
Speaker 3: then he starts selling drugs. Tell us about this Thanksgiving
Speaker 3: day that everything goes wrong.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's the last day of Thanksgiving weekend. He has
Speaker 7: been fighting with a his father. His dad's threatened to
Speaker 7: kick him out of the house. I mean, he is
Speaker 7: a very troubled kid, as you say. One time he
Speaker 7: broke the family's dishwasher by standing on it. He's a
Speaker 7: big guy, six foot four. He's been a real problem
Speaker 7: for the family. But now this is they're going to
Speaker 7: have a late Thanksgiving dinner. It's the last day of
Speaker 7: a holiday. At about one point thirty in the afternoon,
Speaker 7: they're getting ready. The whole family's coming over. Now, Seth
Speaker 7: has been caught shoplift and he has had trouble. Okay,
Speaker 7: so let's get that in there too. But his mother, Linda,
Speaker 7: who's a receptionist at a medical office, is showering. His father, Stephen,
Speaker 7: is out of the house. Stephen went to pick up
Speaker 7: his father, Seth's grandfather, John Fravaki, and brought him to
Speaker 7: bring him back to the house. From the celebration, Seth's
Speaker 7: nineteen year old brother, Jedediah, is in the basement watching TV,
Speaker 7: waiting for his girlfriend, April Boss to arrive. That's the
Speaker 7: family scene. Everybody's getting ready for this late Thanksgiving dinner. Obviously,
Speaker 7: no one has any idea of what's going to happen. Well,
Speaker 7: while Jedediah is in the basement washing the television, Beth
Speaker 7: walks up behind him carrying their father's loaded twenty two ruger.
Speaker 7: He points the gun at the back of Jedediah's head,
Speaker 7: pulls the trigger, killing his brother instantly. Then Seth, here's
Speaker 7: his father's car pulling up at the driveway. He waits
Speaker 7: with that ruger as John and Stephen Pravaki walk from
Speaker 7: the driveway to the house. Steth opens fire, killing both men.
Speaker 7: Even shoots John twice to make sure his grandfather is
Speaker 7: really dead. Now Linda. While this is happening, Linda's still
Speaker 7: upstairs in the shower. Beth hears her turn off the water,
Speaker 7: so he goes up to the hallway outside the bathroom door.
Speaker 7: As soon as his mom walks out of the bathroom,
Speaker 7: he shoots her dead too. That's it. The family's gone.
Speaker 7: But then Beth, here's the front door opening and then closing. Hohovidappy,
Speaker 7: it's April April boss, his brother's girlfriend. Beth decides there
Speaker 7: can be no witnesses, and he shoots her dead too. Now,
Speaker 7: he's an eighteen year old who has a history of
Speaker 7: minor like shoplifting, that kind of thing. All of a sudden,
Speaker 7: he's a guy who stays with the problem of what
Speaker 7: do you do with five courses?
Speaker 4: So what does he do?
Speaker 3: You say that he calls his best friend Stephen Wallace.
Speaker 7: Yeah, he calls his best friend Steven and says, hey,
Speaker 7: I've done it and I need your help. What Stephen do?
Speaker 7: He goes over to the privacy home as soon as
Speaker 7: he can, Death tells Stephen they have to get the
Speaker 7: bodies out of the house. They go to work, but
Speaker 7: then they realize how heavy a dead body is and
Speaker 7: they've got five of them, five dead bodies to move.
Speaker 7: Moving all five, Seth realizes it's going to be next
Speaker 7: to impossible, so he comes up with a new plan.
Speaker 7: Beth decides they need to make it look like a
Speaker 7: robbery that went wrong bought since all five were shot
Speaker 7: him the head at near point blank range. Deth decides
Speaker 7: he needs to get some duct tape to make it
Speaker 7: look like they were all bound, gagged, and then executed,
Speaker 7: so he drives out to the grocery store to get
Speaker 7: the tape. First, though, he picks up some spent shellcasings
Speaker 7: off the floor, and on his way to the store,
Speaker 7: Seth passes the shellcasings into a gas station garbage can.
Speaker 7: Steven meanwhile drives ten miles down the road to a
Speaker 7: pond and hosses the gun and the clip Seth used
Speaker 7: to kill his family into the water. Now, after taking
Speaker 7: care of that crime hiding business, what does Stephen do?
Speaker 7: He goes to a Blockbuster video store and returns a
Speaker 7: movie that he rented a few days earlier. And then,
Speaker 7: and only then, Stephen goes to a church youth group meeting. Yes,
Speaker 7: after a few hours, they get back to the barvacci abode.
Speaker 7: Now a house of death, and it's time to move
Speaker 7: the bodies into position. After liberally applying duct tape to
Speaker 7: the corpses, Steth decides that if it was a robbery
Speaker 7: and five people paid for it with their lives, something
Speaker 7: of value has to be disappeared. It has to be
Speaker 7: a robbery, right, So he takes one of the family's
Speaker 7: television sets outside and puts it in a car and
Speaker 7: they're going to drive it away somewhere so that TV
Speaker 7: will be gone. Now, they're working on the bodies inside
Speaker 7: the house and one of them decides to go outside
Speaker 7: to deal with the body of Seth's father, which is
Speaker 7: still lying dead in the driveway. Wow, it's about midnight now,
Speaker 7: remember this all I started at about one thirty in
Speaker 7: the afternoon, and it's a pretty cool to twelve eleven
Speaker 7: hours later. Now, at that moment, Julie Cooper and her
Speaker 7: husband Tom pulled into the Vacci's driveway. They're looking for
Speaker 7: Julie's daughter April April Boss, the girlfriend who failed to
Speaker 7: show up for her third ship job and Julie. As
Speaker 7: she and Tom pull into the driveway, they see a
Speaker 7: tall man leaning over what looks like a dead person's body.
Speaker 7: Their eyes meet Julie the man and he runs off. Well,
Speaker 7: her heart's in her throat. Julie calls nine to one one.
Speaker 7: She tells the dispatcher she thinks she's found a dead body.
Speaker 7: She also tells the dispatcher that she's really worried because
Speaker 7: my daughter's car is here. The first thing's first, you know, Julie.
Speaker 7: The dispatcher says, how do you know he's dead? This person?
Speaker 7: How do you know this person's dead? And Julie sobs
Speaker 7: because he's filled with blood, he's cold, and he's not moving.
Speaker 7: He tells the police the need to look for a
Speaker 7: tall man with a plaid shirt and light colored pants.
Speaker 7: They say he also dropped a flashlight. Now, Julie and
Speaker 7: Tom do not wait for the police because they're worried
Speaker 7: about April. They go into the house. They turn the
Speaker 7: lights on, and they spot a trail of blood going
Speaker 7: through the house and the garage. They're still on the
Speaker 7: phone with the dispatcher Julia's they walk through the house.
Speaker 7: Now they stop, they know that blood is there. The
Speaker 7: sheriffs are on the way, The deputies are on the way,
Speaker 7: flashing lights and sirens. Now, this is a very rural area. Okay,
Speaker 7: we're out in the country now, so lights and silence
Speaker 7: is on usual. It's not like you're in a city
Speaker 7: where you kind of hear police all the time. Now,
Speaker 7: this wakes up everybody in Muskegan County. The sheriff's deputies
Speaker 7: turn out in force. They go inside the house. Then
Speaker 7: they find the bodies. Five bodies schedule, there's five. There's
Speaker 7: the grandfather's outside, but the other four are inside. Blood
Speaker 7: is splashed and sprayed everywhere. The county Prosecutor, Tony Tagg
Speaker 7: says it's the most serious and vicious attack on a
Speaker 7: household that he has ever witnessed. Tony Tagg is a
Speaker 7: very interesting guy too. We used to call him TV
Speaker 7: Tony because he'd loved to be interviewed on TV. Did
Speaker 7: any of the dead ever have a chance? No, they
Speaker 7: did not. There are no signs that any of the
Speaker 7: dead struggled or fought to live. Tony says each of
Speaker 7: the killings resulted from a brutal execution style death, and
Speaker 7: he says the shooting occurred with a definite plan of
Speaker 7: shooting all five. Well, now they're looking for Seth because
Speaker 7: he's missing. They're also looking for Stephen Wallace, and they
Speaker 7: catch up with him rather quickly. They find him walking
Speaker 7: out of the woods and he says that he has
Speaker 7: a story to tell them, and then he proceeds to
Speaker 7: tell the deputies what Seth has done. Now they found
Speaker 7: him in the woods outside the house, and that triggers
Speaker 7: a man like Muskegan County has never seen before. Again,
Speaker 7: this is a rural area, relatively low crime rate outside
Speaker 7: of the city of Muskegan. Seth stayed on the run
Speaker 7: for thirteen hours before they finally got him.
Speaker 3: You say that at first he blames Jebediah, but quickly
Speaker 3: he is in and confesses, doesn't.
Speaker 7: He Yeah, right again, this is someone who's now used
Speaker 7: to dealing with the police on something as serious as this,
Speaker 7: and he did to blame Jedediah, but then he finally
Speaker 7: did confess, and plain's his father never had a good
Speaker 7: thing to say about him, and his brother and mother
Speaker 7: had turned against him too, so he just went ballistic
Speaker 7: and started telling the family. That's the way he explained it.
Speaker 3: Yes, he was sentenced to five counts of life without parole.
Speaker 3: But the interesting thing is Stephen was charged as an
Speaker 3: accessory after the fact, but acquitted by a jury in
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine, and this sounds familiar. The only reason
Speaker 3: he did it because he feared for his life.
Speaker 7: Yeah, but you know that's right, said he feared for
Speaker 7: his life. But then again, he had plenty of opportunities
Speaker 7: to get out of this. I mean, he goes to
Speaker 7: return to tape, he goes to a youth group. He
Speaker 7: could have talked to the cops any time.
Speaker 3: But he didn't. He came back. Certainly, that's Jesus as
Speaker 3: an opportunity to stop for a second. To hear from
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Speaker 3: subscription today. Now, the next story that we are focusing
Speaker 3: on is the Torso killer confesses And this starts off
Speaker 3: in February fifteen, nineteen sixty eight. This story with a
Speaker 3: woman named Diane Cusick and she was going to the
Speaker 3: Green Acres Mall in Nassau County, New York by dancing shoes.
Speaker 3: Hours later, her parents were concerned she hadn't come home,
Speaker 3: so they drove to the mall. Can you take it
Speaker 3: from there? What happened?
Speaker 7: Yeah, they drove to the mall, drove to the shopping center,
Speaker 7: and they found Diane's Plymouth Valiant in the mall's parking lot.
Speaker 7: Hearing the worst they look inside the vehicle, and they
Speaker 7: make a Horrifyon discovery, they see their daughter's body, her
Speaker 7: corpses in the backseat of the car and adh'es a
Speaker 7: band is over her mouth and her hands are tied together.
Speaker 7: Diane had been strangled to death. She was pronounced deceased
Speaker 7: at one forty am on February sixteenth, nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 7: And this is not the story of the kind of
Speaker 7: guy you never would think would do anything like this.
Speaker 7: This is the story of one of America's most prolific
Speaker 7: serial killers, Richard Cottingham. He confessed in twenty twenty two
Speaker 7: that he killed Diane back in nineteen sixty eight, and
Speaker 7: he also admitted to killing four other women.
Speaker 5: He right that.
Speaker 3: Cottingham is now seventy six years old and he's in
Speaker 3: poor health. So this is almost like a deathbed confession,
Speaker 3: at least for people trying to get information from him.
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly. And now he would become known as the
Speaker 7: Torso Killer because of the gruesome way he butchered the
Speaker 7: victims' bodies. He started killing young women and girls in
Speaker 7: nineteen sixty sevent he said, and he didn't stop until
Speaker 7: nineteen eighty. So far at least say he spattered at
Speaker 7: least seventeen in New York and New Jersey, and that's
Speaker 7: only the ones that the cops know about. Cottingham is
Speaker 7: bragged in twenty in two thousand and nine that he
Speaker 7: committed at least eighty murders and maybe as many as
Speaker 7: one hundred, as he put it, perfect murders across the USA,
Speaker 7: and all of the victims female. In twenty fourteen, Cottingham
Speaker 7: started confessing her Maybe he was bragging, you know, as
Speaker 7: he said, it's kind of like a deathbed confession. But
Speaker 7: then again, I'm thinking maybe he just wants a chance
Speaker 7: to have one more walk in the limelight, you know,
Speaker 7: as he sees it. Maybe he's bragging whatever. He told
Speaker 7: the New Jersey Bergen County Prosecutor's office that he killed
Speaker 7: three teenage girls between sixty eight and sixty nine, in
Speaker 7: addition to the people that he had already said he killed.
Speaker 7: One was a girl by the name of Jackie Harp,
Speaker 7: only thirteen years old, when he ambushed the child as
Speaker 7: she walked home from school band practice. She was strangled
Speaker 7: to death with the leather strap of her school bag.
Speaker 7: Another girl, Irene Blaze, eighteen, vanished on April seventh, her
Speaker 7: body was discovered based down in four feet of water
Speaker 7: near the Saddle River near Hackensack, New Jersey. She too
Speaker 7: had been strangled to death, possibly with the chain of
Speaker 7: her crucifix. And then there was Denise Alaska, a fifteen
Speaker 7: year old girl abducted in Emerson, New Jersey, on July fourteenth,
Speaker 7: nineteen sixty nine. The next day, she was found in Settlebrook,
Speaker 7: New Jersey, beside a road next to a cemetery. She'd
Speaker 7: been strangled to death with the cord or, the examiner said.
Speaker 7: The medical examiner said perhaps the chain of her crucifix.
Speaker 5: So Then on.
Speaker 7: December five, twenty twenty two, Cottingham again again begins talking
Speaker 7: about murders. In addition to the case of Diane Cusick
Speaker 7: that we already talked about, he confessed to killing twenty
Speaker 7: one year old Mary Beth Hines. She disappeared in nineteen
Speaker 7: seventy two. The twenty one year old found face down
Speaker 7: in a muddy stream. She too had been strangled to death.
Speaker 7: Cottingham's confession, her sister Janine told the reporters, Honestly, I
Speaker 7: never imagined her case would be resolved, and then he
Speaker 7: just kept talking about other women that he killed. I mean,
Speaker 7: the guy a death then confession, I don't know, but
Speaker 7: he just kept talking about women that he had killed.
Speaker 3: It's interesting you say, those various women on December fifteenth,
Speaker 3: that Mary Beth Hines included Laverne moy Arita nive Is
Speaker 3: eighteen years old, and also the Sheila Hyman, thirty three
Speaker 3: year old. And what was interesting, of course, unfortunately, as
Speaker 3: their husband was suspected all along, he never found out
Speaker 3: about her fate and he died being a suspect.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that was really tragic. Yeah, cutting him confessed to
Speaker 7: killing thirty three year old Sheila Hyman who's found beaten
Speaker 7: to death. And as you said, the father was the
Speaker 7: leading suspect in this. He died in two thousand and
Speaker 7: four without finding out who killed Sheila or having his
Speaker 7: name cleared.
Speaker 3: The police estimated how many victims, regardless of the confession.
Speaker 7: Yeah, regardless of the confession, the police were talking about
Speaker 7: at least seventeen in New York and New Jersey. And
Speaker 7: that's how many they know about. They're sure that he
Speaker 7: killed at least seventeen.
Speaker 3: And what is the status of their investigation as a
Speaker 3: result of these confessions?
Speaker 7: They are still Yeah, they were investigating them. You know,
Speaker 7: they're moving forward with the investigations to see if they
Speaker 7: can confirm his confession.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about another incredible tale. Hearing ramped up the
Speaker 3: graphic nature here, but this is the Kansas Kansas City Butcher,
Speaker 3: Bob Burdella. He lived near Kansas City, Missouri, and he
Speaker 3: ran a curio shop in early eighties and was called
Speaker 3: Bob's Bizarre Bizarre, and he led the neighborhood watch groups
Speaker 3: and he was known as a pretty good guy and
Speaker 3: was not known as any kind of trouble in the
Speaker 3: community whatsoever. And then some male prostitutes began dying.
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah, he patronized male prostitutes. This again is in
Speaker 7: the early eighties, and everybody liked Bob. He represented the
Speaker 7: South Hyde Park neighborhood groups at fundraising events. He was
Speaker 7: on their local public TV station raising money for the neighborhood.
Speaker 7: But what was going on behind the scenes was a
Speaker 7: totally different story. But nobody really knows yet what flipped
Speaker 7: his switch and turned him into it serial killer who
Speaker 7: became known as the Kansas City Butcher. It might have been,
Speaker 7: he says now. Bob said it was a movie he
Speaker 7: saw called The Collector from nineteen sixty five, the story
Speaker 7: of a young englishman who stalks at co ed before
Speaker 7: kidnapping the girl and keeping her in a farmhouse basement.
Speaker 7: He said that inspired him, actually, that he got his
Speaker 7: start by watching that movie.
Speaker 3: It's interesting that a lot of serial killers have actually
Speaker 3: cited the book and the movie The Collector as an inspiration.
Speaker 3: And many years ago I found that book in a
Speaker 3: used bookstore and then recently watched that movie to see
Speaker 3: all this inspiration was. It's quite an innocent book and
Speaker 3: an innocent movie as compared to some of the fantasies
Speaker 3: that end up these serial killers' legacies.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and Bob's the way Bob went He well, his
Speaker 7: first victim was a guy by the name of Jerry Howell,
Speaker 7: who died in nineteen eighty four. Bob drugged and sodomized him.
Speaker 7: He didn't just abduct and murder people. He held them
Speaker 7: as prisoners for up to six weeks, torturing them every
Speaker 7: day until he finally either allowed them to die or
Speaker 7: he killed them. And Jerry Howell was the perfect example.
Speaker 7: Bob tied him to his bed for more than a day,
Speaker 7: twenty eight hours to be exact. Finally, Jerry gagged to
Speaker 7: death in his own vomit or maybe the drugs that
Speaker 7: Bob gave him. Then he chopped up Jerry's body, dumped
Speaker 7: the parts and pieces in a plastic bag and left
Speaker 7: it out at the curb for the garbage man to
Speaker 7: cart away.
Speaker 3: You talk about the next victim, Robert Sheldon, and he
Speaker 3: was in this torture. He was blinded by drain killer,
Speaker 3: and he was kept sedated and captive for three days,
Speaker 3: so it's not just one day now, it's three days.
Speaker 3: And inserted needles under his fingertips and filled his ears
Speaker 3: with cocking and then eventually cut his head off and
Speaker 3: buried it in the backyard.
Speaker 7: Yeah, you can see that, as they say, with a
Speaker 7: lot of cereal Childers. He just keeps stepping up, going
Speaker 7: up and up and up. One was Mark Wallace. He
Speaker 7: was the next to guy. And then in the fall,
Speaker 7: a guy by the name of James Ferris fell victim
Speaker 7: to Bob. Todd. Stoops was a twenty three year old
Speaker 7: male prostitute. Bob picked him up, tortured him four weeks
Speaker 7: before Todd died of blood loss, and then Bob went quiet.
Speaker 7: As far as we can tell for a couple of years.
Speaker 7: Then his next victim was Larry Pearson. He was tortured
Speaker 7: for six long weeks. Finally Bob put a plastic bag
Speaker 7: over Larry's head and suffocated him. And like the others
Speaker 7: all of this, he chopped up Larry's body and most
Speaker 7: of the corps who was left at the curb for
Speaker 7: a garbage truck to take away. But Bob took Larry's
Speaker 7: head to his backyard, buried it, and on earthed Robert
Speaker 7: Sheldon's sculp which he had also buried, and carried that's
Speaker 7: Robert Sheldon's head into his house and set the skull
Speaker 7: up on display.
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Speaker 3: Talked about took Robert Shelton skull and set it up
Speaker 3: on display. Who is his next victim and how long
Speaker 3: do you torture that person for?
Speaker 7: He tortured Chris Bryce and his next victim a twenty
Speaker 7: two year old guy. He tortured him for days after
Speaker 7: smashing him over the head and drugging him. It was
Speaker 7: just days, but.
Speaker 4: Then Bob go.
Speaker 7: Now, remember Bob's still running his shop, The Bizarre Bizarre.
Speaker 7: He's still running that every day too. His normal life
Speaker 7: is continuing while all of this goes on, and these
Speaker 7: guys are tied and tortured. Chris finds a match, He
Speaker 7: lights it and uses it to burn through his ropes,
Speaker 7: and he's naked except for dog collar around his neck.
Speaker 7: He jumps out of a second story window and hits
Speaker 7: the ground, naked, running for his life. A gas meter
Speaker 7: guy is our gas company guy, he told the employee
Speaker 7: is reading the neighborhood gas meters he spots. Chris calls
Speaker 7: the police, and the rest is serial killer history.
Speaker 3: You write that Bob makes it easy for the cops relatively.
Speaker 3: Inside the house, they discovered the two skulls and human
Speaker 3: teeth and vertebrae, and they found dozens of photos, syringes,
Speaker 3: and even notebooks in which Bob detailed how he tortured
Speaker 3: and killed his victims. He agreed to a full confession
Speaker 3: instead of the death penalty. And you say that he
Speaker 3: had a heart attack and died in prison October nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety two. And one of the victims' family members said
Speaker 3: that he didn't suffer long enough.
Speaker 7: Yeah, she said, yeah, and you can understand how she'd feel.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Let's talk about a couple short stories involving real
Speaker 3: infamous murderers. You have one called to Kill a serial
Speaker 3: Killer and also dead Man Riding. Let's talk about dead
Speaker 3: Man Riding involving a person and people might know Randy Kraft.
Speaker 7: Yeah. I kind of picked this. I took it. It's
Speaker 7: a snippet out of the whole story, right, and I
Speaker 7: just found it fascinating. You know, here was a guy who,
Speaker 7: again we're talking about a serial killer. Here, we're talking
Speaker 7: about a serial killer who for years had gotten away
Speaker 7: with his crimes. But then he makes a mistake that
Speaker 7: I can't just can't believe. A couple of cops, this
Speaker 7: weren't in Los Angeles, now Mission Rio. In the Los
Speaker 7: Angeles area. Two cops by the name of Michael Sterling
Speaker 7: and Mike Howard, an officer and a sergeant, respectively, are
Speaker 7: on the San Diego Freeway and they spot a car
Speaker 7: driving erradically must be a drunk driver. They pull it
Speaker 7: over and they find a dead guy in the passenger seat.
Speaker 3: And what's the state of this person?
Speaker 7: He's dead? Well, Randy, of course, is out of the car.
Speaker 7: He's the driver of this Toyota. They're doing a sobriety
Speaker 7: test on him. A fields a variety test on one
Speaker 7: of the cops. The other cop walks around to the
Speaker 7: passenger side to see what's wrong with this guy in
Speaker 7: the passenger seat. His jeans are open, he's hanging out,
Speaker 7: and the cops figures right away this is more than
Speaker 7: a drunk driving stop, a lot more. He grasps the
Speaker 7: man's cold wrist, nothing hold, no pulse at all. But
Speaker 7: there are welt red stripes, red angry red stripes on
Speaker 7: the wrist, so he can say he puts his finger
Speaker 7: on the guy's neck. Nothing, no signs of life. He
Speaker 7: knows he's got a dead body in the front seat.
Speaker 7: He knows something. And if that wasn't weird enough, there's
Speaker 7: something even weirder going on because his pants are open
Speaker 7: and down and they go from there they find a
Speaker 7: dead man writing twenty five year old marine by the
Speaker 7: name of Kerry Lee Gambrel. Inside the celic of the Toyota,
Speaker 7: they find a belt which matches the bruising around his neck.
Speaker 7: They find booze tranquilizer. It's a variety of prescription drugs
Speaker 7: and stimulants. And the passenger seat and the carpet are
Speaker 7: soaked with blood. And just like the last case, we
Speaker 7: have the Kansas City butcher. They find an envelope photo
Speaker 7: more than fifty snapshots of Randy Crafts victims, along with
Speaker 7: notes you know that where he rated each of the
Speaker 7: victims and rated the way that he killed each one. Wow, incredible.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about another short story to kill a serial killer?
Speaker 3: And who does this involve? And again it's another snippet
Speaker 3: of a much bigger story.
Speaker 7: Yeah, this is this involves Girled by the name of
Speaker 7: Ronda Louise Williams. She's fifteen years old and she's off
Speaker 7: with a friend. Somebody she got with a friend, seventeen
Speaker 7: year old Elmer Wayne Hemley. Now he's hooked up with
Speaker 7: the serial killer that everybody knows about, Dean Arnold Coral.
Speaker 7: From nineteen seventy through ninth August nineteen seventy three, Dean
Speaker 7: Arnold Coral raped, tortured, and murdered more than two dozen
Speaker 7: boys and young men in Houston and Pasadena, Texas. Elmer
Speaker 7: Wayne Henley would bring victims to him, but in the
Speaker 7: case of Ronda Louise Williams, Elmer Wayne Henley wouldn't do
Speaker 7: it anymore. He couldn't take it anymore. They had a girl,
Speaker 7: and they had another guy, a pizza delivery a thirteen
Speaker 7: year old pizza delivery man. A kid showed up with
Speaker 7: the pizza, and they had these two trapped, and they
Speaker 7: were going to Henley. His idea was Karl's idea was
Speaker 7: going to torture and kill both of them. But Henley,
Speaker 7: Wayne Henley, decided he'd had enough. He takes Coral gun,
Speaker 7: holds the gun on quarrel. Karl says, you will never
Speaker 7: shoot me, but Henley did exactly that he shot him
Speaker 7: in the stomach and in the shoulder with a twenty
Speaker 7: two caliber pistol. And that's how the murder spree of
Speaker 7: Coral ended, was with a gun held by one of
Speaker 7: his longtime accomplices.
Speaker 3: That's an extraordinary end to a story that because Elmer
Speaker 3: Wayne Hemley had brought Ronald Luise Williams around, that's what
Speaker 3: enraged Dean Arnold Coral so much so that he would
Speaker 3: put in ject Elmer Wayne Hemley, his assistant. But as
Speaker 3: you say, Elmer decided that enough was enough and this
Speaker 3: was the end.
Speaker 7: Yeah, he was and now, but he too was. Henley
Speaker 7: was sentenced to life in prison. Carl was killed. He
Speaker 7: killed him right there. The police found him naked and dead.
Speaker 7: But then he did the Henley and the other accomplished
Speaker 7: books were both sentenced to life in prison because it
Speaker 7: helped him commit several abductions, rapes and murders.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, some of the other stories that are involved in
Speaker 3: this book tell us just the outline of some of
Speaker 3: the other stories that populate this collection.
Speaker 7: Blood on the Tracks, Yeah, we have, for instance, murder
Speaker 7: on del Rio Drive. This is the story of a
Speaker 7: woman who finds out that her stepfather had taken pictures
Speaker 7: of her and her friends naked for years and had
Speaker 7: kept them and finally she decides she can't take it anymore.
Speaker 7: She brings him home from an alcohol rehab center, kills
Speaker 7: him and leaves his body out on the sidewalk on
Speaker 7: Del Real Drive, covers it with garbage and nja away.
Speaker 7: That's in murder by design. Then we have murder on
Speaker 7: Delrio Drive, another case of the normal people who snap.
Speaker 7: But I've also included, along with murders in this book
Speaker 7: some cases of disappear or. The murder of Gay Gibson
Speaker 7: is the story that goes back number of decades and
Speaker 7: she was an actress who in nineteen forty seven she
Speaker 7: was on a cruise liner from going from South Africa
Speaker 7: to England. She meets up with one of the workers
Speaker 7: on the ship and who really mate, takes delight in
Speaker 7: having sex with a woman on every single cruise. He
Speaker 7: goes on a deck steword by the name of James
Speaker 7: cam She dies while they're having sex, and rather than
Speaker 7: reporting it, he pushes her body at a porthole window
Speaker 7: into the water, so her body was never discovered. And
Speaker 7: I do include a number of stories in this book
Speaker 7: about people, usually women, who have disappeared and we have
Speaker 7: no idea what happened to them.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 7: In that case of Gay Gibson, James Camm was convicted
Speaker 7: of murder and he was sentenced to death, but then
Speaker 7: before he was ready to die, he was great. Britain
Speaker 7: decided to do away with the death penalty, no more
Speaker 7: capital punishment, so he got out in like eleven years.
Speaker 7: And even Winston Churchill spoke on that he thought that
Speaker 7: was terribly bad. But I also include stories about people
Speaker 7: who have disappeared. The vanishing honeymooners couple who back in
Speaker 7: the twenties decided to go down the Colorado River instead
Speaker 7: of speed record their raft. They vanished. Nobody knows what's
Speaker 7: happened to them. That's a rather famous story too. We've
Speaker 7: got the gangster who got away, a Chicago gangster who
Speaker 7: just couldn't be put down until he died in bed.
Speaker 7: A vigilanti mom who decided to kill the man who
Speaker 7: molested and killed her daughter in court. She pulled a
Speaker 7: gun and killed him in court. So there are a
Speaker 7: lot of awfully different different stories here that some of
Speaker 7: you may have never seen before, like trench warfare with
Speaker 7: some bank robbers who had been trained in World War
Speaker 7: One and they used their combat abilities learned in World
Speaker 7: War One to rob a bank and several banks. It's
Speaker 7: an interesting book, I think absolutely.
Speaker 3: I want to thank you very much Rod Cackley for
Speaker 3: coming on and talking about your latest Blood on the Tracks,
Speaker 3: Real Life Tales of Murder and Mystery. For those that
Speaker 3: might want to take a look at your other work,
Speaker 3: what would you recommend? Website? Amazon, social media.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Amazon is probably the best place to go. They
Speaker 7: do a great job of putting all the books up there,
Speaker 7: including another new book I have out called The Deadly
Speaker 7: Duel or Tale of Trying Clime and Chaos, and this
Speaker 7: one's fiction, pure fiction, but I think you might like
Speaker 7: that one too. But yeah, Amazon is a real good
Speaker 7: place to go. Just put my name in Rod Cackley,
Speaker 7: or you can go to my website at Amazon rodcackley
Speaker 7: dot com and look me up there too.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Rod Cackley, Blood on the Tracks,
Speaker 3: Real Life Tales of Murder and Mystery. Thank you very
Speaker 3: much for this interview, Rod Cackley, and goodnight