1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Uh, the Doctor Sky Experience entertaining and informative. 2 00:00:05,599 --> 00:00:08,199 Speaker 2: On the Red Apple podcast network. 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,599 Speaker 3: In our number two. Another very special guest he's been 4 00:00:12,599 --> 00:00:16,399 with us before. A the author, historian, I should say, 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,399 aviation expert Billionni. The Wall Street Journal describes him, and 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,760 he writes with cinematic vividness. He's the author of more 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:29,359 than three dozen nonfiction books as well as a dozen novels. Billionnie, 8 00:00:29,359 --> 00:00:31,120 thanks for joining us on the West coast. How are 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:31,640 you today? 10 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 4: I'm doing well. Thank you for having me. 11 00:00:35,039 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 3: Always a pleasure, my friend. You know, I'm looking at 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,920 a copy that I printed off of your website here 13 00:00:40,439 --> 00:00:43,759 and it's amazing. Here. Yes, I'm standing here on this 14 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,320 particular forum at the podium saying, wow, all these different 15 00:00:47,359 --> 00:00:50,679 titles here, look at the Sitting Bull, hap Arnold, the 16 00:00:50,719 --> 00:00:54,240 Imperial Japanese Army, Your books that go on about not 17 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,600 only about aviation history, but also about American history and 18 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,320 so many other things. And you've written a couple of novels, 19 00:01:01,399 --> 00:01:03,200 is that correct that you could share with us during 20 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,799 this hour. Tell us more about. 21 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 4: Your Yeah, I've written a couple of series of westerns 22 00:01:10,719 --> 00:01:21,640 and Western novels, and they're they're available see one of 23 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:27,719 the series is called The Ballad of a Westering Man. 24 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:33,840 It's about a man who came came west after the war, 25 00:01:34,239 --> 00:01:40,079 must being the war between the States, and he traveled 26 00:01:40,079 --> 00:01:49,040 across the appellations chasing chasing horizons and chasing sunsets. Met 27 00:01:49,079 --> 00:01:52,519 a girl in Kentucky and was about to settle down. 28 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:59,560 She worked in a in a an orphanage. The man 29 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:04,120 who had been at war was now with the woman 30 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,400 who took care of the orphans that were left behind 31 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,400 by that war. And but alas there was a great 32 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:19,840 fire and many of the children died, and his girlfriend died, 33 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:24,080 and he was blamed for it. And then he became 34 00:02:24,159 --> 00:02:30,599 a western man, traveling west into Colorado and wyoming up 35 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,680 in the Montana. And that's where the series starts. He's 36 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:41,680 in Montana trying to cross That's more than you wanted 37 00:02:41,719 --> 00:02:45,960 to know about my Westerns. 38 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,039 Speaker 3: Yes, I will, and we would love you here on 39 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,680 this radio show because it's amazing. Bill YENNI, that's Bill 40 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,560 y E n n E dot com. You will be 41 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,199 most impressed if you're a lover of books, like a 42 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,719 gentleman that I know out in radio land named Tim. 43 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,080 He of course gathers books like he was a vacuum 44 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,960 pulling up all that information. But the reason we have 45 00:03:06,039 --> 00:03:08,120 you here this morning, with total respect to you as 46 00:03:08,159 --> 00:03:11,520 an author, I wanted to shift over to American exceptionalism, 47 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,400 a time in American history that maybe young people had 48 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,240 no idea about. And there seems to be a lot 49 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:22,919 billionaire of activity, you know, going and saluting America's steam 50 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,520 locomotives of the past, these incredible machines, one of them 51 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,840 that's running around the country, and maybe the listeners of 52 00:03:28,879 --> 00:03:32,319 this vast audience had seen it come down into Philadelphia, 53 00:03:32,319 --> 00:03:35,879 traveling across the country and making its way back to Wyoming, 54 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,159 the Union Pacific Big Boy, one of the most amazing 55 00:03:39,199 --> 00:03:42,520 locomotives ever built. Describe this to the audience, And why 56 00:03:42,639 --> 00:03:45,000 is that period of history, since you write about it 57 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,080 so important to this audience about American exceptionalism. 58 00:03:48,639 --> 00:03:54,039 Speaker 4: Well, it's and I have in the past. If you 59 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,400 read down on my list of books written, quite a 60 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,159 few books on American railroad just as well as American 61 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:07,360 aviation history. But why were these uh, these locomotives. Is 62 00:04:07,479 --> 00:04:13,360 steam locomotives important? Why were they exceptional and why were 63 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:20,079 they so unique to the United States, Well, the United 64 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:24,040 States is a country, and we just celebrated two hundred 65 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:32,079 and fiftieth anniversary. And in those fifty years, we we 66 00:04:32,079 --> 00:04:37,759 we sent our civilization to span a continent and there 67 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:43,240 are three hundred million people who are descendants of that 68 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:49,800 effort and to and to span that continent, transportation was 69 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:56,120 a key thing, and the and the railroads were an 70 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,759 important part of that. If you look at the railroad 71 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:05,560 maps of Europe from the nineteenth century and compare those 72 00:05:05,639 --> 00:05:10,000 to the United States, in the early nineteenth century, there 73 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,399 was the beginnings of the very comprehensive network of rail 74 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,040 lines in Europe and just a trickle of rail lines 75 00:05:18,079 --> 00:05:21,319 in the United States. By the end of that century, 76 00:05:21,959 --> 00:05:26,839 the comprehensive rail network in the United States dwarfed not 77 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,759 only Europe but the entire world. And running on those 78 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:36,360 on those long distance lines thousands and thousands of miles 79 00:05:36,399 --> 00:05:43,399 across the country, distances unimaginable in Europe. Incredibly, were the 80 00:05:43,439 --> 00:05:53,480 great steam locomotives, and they were in Speaking of American exceptionalism, 81 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,439 you know, you can't really talk about American exceptionalism without 82 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:04,000 talking about entrepreneurs and out of the out of this 83 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:15,519 this turning expanding civilization, the three important companies merged. We 84 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:23,600 call them the Big Three of steam locomotives. There was 85 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:29,079 the Lima Locomotive Works in Lima, Ohio eighteen seventy seven. 86 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:37,240 There was the Elkell Company, the American Locomotive Company of Schenectady, 87 00:06:37,319 --> 00:06:40,839 New York, which actually didn't get it start until nineteen 88 00:06:40,879 --> 00:06:45,240 oh one, but it stood on the shoulders of many 89 00:06:45,319 --> 00:06:48,680 smaller companies. And then the biggest of the Big three 90 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:57,120 was the Baldwood Locomotive Works of Philadelphia, and it was 91 00:06:57,199 --> 00:07:02,519 the It became the world's largest manufacturer of locomotives, produced 92 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:08,920 over seventy thousand through the years. But going back to Elco, 93 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,279 they were the creators of the Big Boy. 94 00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:15,439 Speaker 3: Yes, an amazing machine. 95 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 4: Yes. And this amazing machine came in the twentieth century. 96 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:30,680 It was built for the Union Pacific, which has hadlines 97 00:07:31,319 --> 00:07:36,000 across the entire country and had to cross the Rocky mountains, 98 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,560 and it needed a great deal of power. So the 99 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:48,600 Big Boy was produced for Union Pacific by Alco and Schenectady. 100 00:07:48,439 --> 00:07:54,079 They were built and in the nineteen forties served only 101 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,879 until nineteen fifty nine. 102 00:07:56,439 --> 00:07:59,879 Speaker 3: In short time a third time. 103 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 4: There were twenty five of these things built. They were round. 104 00:08:09,399 --> 00:08:14,959 There are eighty five feet long. They weighed one point 105 00:08:15,199 --> 00:08:17,600 two million pounds. 106 00:08:18,519 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: Wow, what a beast. 107 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, they had the motive power to get those long 108 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,240 freight trains across the Rocky mountains. 109 00:08:27,199 --> 00:08:29,319 Speaker 3: You bring up some good points, Bill. This is interesting 110 00:08:29,399 --> 00:08:32,120 because I'm looking at this on the internet as many people, 111 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,600 but folks to you and the audience of the Doctor's 112 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,960 Guy experience, how many of you out there? And that 113 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,279 changes the subject just slightly. Railroad enthusiasts. We look at 114 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,399 the model trains. When I was little, we had the 115 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,519 Line L trains, we had h O, then we went 116 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,519 to Engage, And I wonder it's a select audience out 117 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,279 there that probably, Bill, I'm sure, like yourself, has so 118 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,679 much fascination by model trains. But you know, I saw 119 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,080 the Big Boy when it was out here in Arizona. 120 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,200 And this is what I'm asking the audience out there 121 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,000 of the Doctor's Guy. Did you have an opportunity Folks 122 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,759 in the East Coast, if you're listening, of course, and 123 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,840 all over the country, this particular locomotive when you see it, 124 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,879 it's not only amazing, it's just so amazing about pride 125 00:09:11,879 --> 00:09:15,200 in America. As you're describing, Bill Junnie, this is amazing. 126 00:09:15,279 --> 00:09:18,279 I mean, those boilers. Imagine how much coal. I guess 127 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,000 in the old days you had to shovel into that 128 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:23,240 little area in the firebox. And then I understand the 129 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,360 big tender was not a tender of coal or was 130 00:09:25,399 --> 00:09:27,320 it also oil to kept these monsters? 131 00:09:28,879 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 4: By the twentieth century, oil had replaced coal. 132 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:39,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing. And maybe the environmentalists don't like it because 133 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,080 this thing's blowing around a lot of smoke, but you 134 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:43,679 can't miss it. And I just wonder if you have 135 00:09:43,759 --> 00:09:46,000 comments on this. We're going to segue to a couple 136 00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:48,879 of subjects that Bill Junnie has expertise in. The contact 137 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,960 number to get in our theater of the mind is 138 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,200 one eight hundred eight four or eight nine two to 139 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,120 two two. Of course, discussing with a man who's written 140 00:09:56,159 --> 00:09:58,600 so many books, how many books would you say right now? 141 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,799 And you're counting that you've actually produced so far. I mean, 142 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,399 I'm looking at a stack here that's bigger than you'd 143 00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:06,919 see in many bookstores. But you have so many titles. 144 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,879 How many books have you have you produced so far? 145 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,159 Speaker 4: Oh, there's been a lot. I like, I like to 146 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:20,399 say I've written more than more than three on deviation 147 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:23,519 and historical topics, but it's probably twice that. 148 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,399 Speaker 3: Amazing or no, it's an incredible story. But to put 149 00:10:27,399 --> 00:10:30,440 this in perspective, this big boy locomotive right now, if 150 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,639 you go to the Union Pacific website, if I'm correct 151 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:35,919 on this and people can fact check it, that it's 152 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,320 heading back to the West and will eventually at the 153 00:10:38,399 --> 00:10:40,919 end of July be back to its home base that's 154 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,759 up in Wyoming, one of their headquarter locations. I believe 155 00:10:44,759 --> 00:10:48,399 it's now at least today. It was in Altoona, Pennsylvania, 156 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,360 in the most amazing area for railroad fans called the 157 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,919 Horseshoe Curve, and I've seen it a long time ago. 158 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,840 So if you're listening out there in Pennsylvania, just check 159 00:10:57,919 --> 00:11:00,320 that website out or if you've seen it, give us 160 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,960 a call describe this beast to us. Because again focusing 161 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,559 in this little segment with Bill yenni American exceptionalism. How 162 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,159 we built these incredible machines well before the days of 163 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,120 diesel and well, as you know from many sci fi 164 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,399 particular television shows of the past, as powerful as a locomotive. 165 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,519 But that went to who right, Bill Superman, So there you. 166 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 4: Are, And yeah, it's also a testament to American exceptionalism 167 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:36,320 that they got this the thing that was retired in 168 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,480 nineteen fifty nine and restored it completely the full working 169 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:46,919 condition that was done in twenty nineteen for the one 170 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,559 hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the Transcottinental Railroad, which is 171 00:11:51,639 --> 00:11:58,440 another story that certainly drips of the American exceptionalism. 172 00:11:59,039 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: Bill, I got a question, is there factor fiction behind 173 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,000 the golden spike? I mean literally, if somebody knew where 174 00:12:05,039 --> 00:12:06,960 it was, if it was twenty four carrot gold, they 175 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,759 would have won tried to pull it out of the rail. 176 00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:12,240 Is that just? I mean, they obviously did meet, but 177 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,000 was that really not a golden spike? And I want 178 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,320 to sound foolish to the audience. What was it a fact? 179 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,919 Similon or just who knows? 180 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 4: It was a golden spike? 181 00:12:21,799 --> 00:12:25,639 Speaker 3: And they and they spray painted grow. 182 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 4: They drove, well, it was you know, eighteen sixty nine. 183 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,960 Spray paint was really hard to find. 184 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 3: Jack kidding. 185 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:41,279 Speaker 4: No, it was gold because it had been it had 186 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:48,600 been made in California, because the meeting Promontory Utah of 187 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:53,799 the of the rails included the Central Pacific Building east 188 00:12:54,039 --> 00:12:58,879 from California and the Union Pacific Building west from Omaha. 189 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,879 And they finally met, and when they mapped the they 190 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,360 finished it off by with a ceremonial golden spike and 191 00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:12,960 piles of dignitaries from both both ends of the country. 192 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,000 There they watched all of this, and they pounded the 193 00:13:16,039 --> 00:13:20,200 golden spike and they had a photo op, and then 194 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:26,480 they pulled the spike and it was it was preserved 195 00:13:26,519 --> 00:13:28,120 for posterity. It is. 196 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,519 Speaker 3: We appreciate your answer on that. I never knew that, 197 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,919 and I'm sure how many listeners did not. Eight nine 198 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,200 two takes us into the theater of the mind with you, 199 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,679 our guests out there around the nation, around the world, 200 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,679 if you're just joining us. Bill Jennie, author, historian and 201 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,960 book producer, of course, the author of more than three 202 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,639 dozen nonfiction books as well as a dozen novels. And 203 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,679 a quote again from the Wall Street Journal, and I 204 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:56,600 quote Bill Jennie writes with a cinematic vividness his books. 205 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,200 Of course, Bill Yennie dot com. Bill, before we change 206 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,320 on this, and I wanted to do this because you're 207 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,799 a primary expertise. It's all over the board here with history, 208 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,919 American history and so much. Let's segue if we can 209 00:14:10,039 --> 00:14:12,000 right now to talk a little bit about this big 210 00:14:12,039 --> 00:14:14,320 air show that's coming up here to many people who 211 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,480 are in the aviation world, and that's oshkosh, what can 212 00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:19,120 you tell us about it? Because I know it's coming 213 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:20,080 up next weekend. 214 00:14:20,159 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 4: I guess well. It is a it's a America's biggest 215 00:14:26,919 --> 00:14:36,240 airshel it's a fly in of pilot pilots, military pilots, 216 00:14:36,279 --> 00:14:45,080 commercial pilots. It's war birds, it's experimental aircraft. It's the 217 00:14:45,159 --> 00:14:50,320 place to go to to scratch your aviation itch. 218 00:14:51,559 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 3: Yes, and it's a great itch to have because look 219 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,960 at the amazing stories that we get from Chuck Yeager 220 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,039 and all the great aviators as we talk about the 221 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,559 female aviators to so many stories, and we've had many 222 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,000 guests on here talking, including yourself, about the stories of 223 00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:11,000 American exceptionalism in the world of aviation. But Bill, this 224 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:12,519 is amazing. Go ahead. 225 00:15:12,519 --> 00:15:15,279 Speaker 4: Sorry, I was just going to say, go to our 226 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:20,440 Scotch and you'll meet you'll meet amazing aviators that you 227 00:15:20,679 --> 00:15:25,039 maybe you'd never heard of, But once you have met 228 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,279 them and you know them, you'll find references to them 229 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:33,480 all over this thing called the Internet, and you you 230 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:39,559 will expand your your your pool of knowledge and your 231 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:47,559 pool of exciting things to be interested in. Expand. 232 00:15:48,679 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, our family, our family has a website that I 233 00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:53,320 want to promote out here for people who are in 234 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,639 the aviation world, photo recon dot net. And I think 235 00:15:56,679 --> 00:15:58,960 you know about that, and I think it does a 236 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,440 very good job. That's my brother and his photo team. 237 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,320 So in other words, this big air show, I'm sure 238 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,559 they're going to be there, but it's a special group 239 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,759 of people. I mean, they get really excited about this, 240 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,720 including the days of the Great Reno air races that 241 00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:13,879 we've covered so many times. And I'm sure you've been 242 00:16:13,919 --> 00:16:16,679 there more than you can count the fingers on your hand, right, 243 00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:19,159 amazing air shows. 244 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know Oscas is coming, and it's 245 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,360 not It's not an event for other people, it's an 246 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:36,879 event for you. So I would say, if you're planning 247 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,960 the Motor West, as they say in the song, or 248 00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:46,720 Motor East, yes, put ostash on your road trip plans for. 249 00:16:46,759 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 3: This summer billionning before we go to this break in 250 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,600 a moment, I just want to ask you personal side 251 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,000 of the personal question. If you'd like to answer it. 252 00:16:56,279 --> 00:16:59,480 Of all the people you've interviewed from the aviation world, 253 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,639 who tops the charts is the most fascinating person that 254 00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:05,279 you've ever spent time with. And I'd love the audience 255 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,160 to hear this, because so many of the greats and aviation, 256 00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:10,839 many of them have passed on. Who might you say, 257 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:11,599 might that have been? 258 00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 4: Well, it's I spent a lot of time with with 259 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:24,480 General Curtis LeMay, but I've talked to a lot of people, 260 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,319 maybe people that you've never heard of, like Harry Gahm 261 00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:38,480 at Douglas Aircraft, Eric Simonson who was with North Americans. 262 00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:42,319 Speaker 3: I know Eric very well. Yes, Eric Simon's another great 263 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:43,079 author too. 264 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,279 Speaker 4: Yes he is. And I would say knowing him has 265 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,960 been a real treat. And I think we know we 266 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,000 we probably know a lot of people, have a lot 267 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,079 of people in common. I know that you know Nick. 268 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:02,599 Speaker 3: Veronico absolutely, and Nick was instrumental in getting us to 269 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,200 fly the Sophia the seven forty seven sp many times 270 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,039 on those twelve to thirteen hour flights that we went 271 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,400 up on, and just the audience knows what we're talking about. 272 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,119 NASA had acquired, as you know, Bill a pan AM 273 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,079 seven forty seven SP one of the shorter versions as 274 00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:21,680 we call it, fuselage lengthwise and maybe even wingwise. You 275 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,759 know more about it. And they converted it NASA with 276 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:30,880 a German organization into SOFIA, the Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy, 277 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,039 and we would fly on that and Nick Veronica was 278 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,599 instrumental to get us on there. What is it? It's 279 00:18:35,599 --> 00:18:38,720 one hundred inch telescope that ladies and gentlemen you could 280 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,000 see above when we were at forty eight forty nine 281 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:44,359 thousand feet. It was above most of the atmospheric moisture 282 00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:47,799 and it was actually observing for hours and that was 283 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,920 incredible Bill, just to be part of that. But I 284 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,359 now it's retired down in Tucson now an interesting thing. 285 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,160 But we have Nick Veronico to thank for that. 286 00:18:58,759 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 4: So those are some highlights by by career people that 287 00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:07,599 I got to go. You know, and I know and 288 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:15,480 but others may not know. But there, Well, this is okay, 289 00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:21,119 this is the point of me scolding you to your listeners, 290 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,559 do get theirselves over to Ashkosh. Yes, how are you 291 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,920 going to meet those people unless you go where they are. 292 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,599 Speaker 3: And you better believe it's a big deal gathering. 293 00:19:31,839 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 4: They gather in droves of Arshkosh. So if you're interested 294 00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:41,559 in meeting great people in in aviation, that's the place 295 00:19:41,599 --> 00:19:41,880 to go. 296 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 3: You got it, Bill, Oshkosh one of the best air 297 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,160 shows and right you say, the most prolific one talking 298 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,240 about aviation from all different angles, all different aircraft. If 299 00:19:51,279 --> 00:19:54,359 you want to meet people, Oshkosh, Wisconsin. But hopefully you 300 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,799 can get a hotel room. But Bill, before we go 301 00:19:56,839 --> 00:19:59,240 to the break, I always segue to what's visible part 302 00:19:59,279 --> 00:20:01,559 of the astronomy side of the equation here in the 303 00:20:01,599 --> 00:20:04,279 Doctor Sky experience for people that want to know and 304 00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:07,000 they do about what we can see in the nighttime sky. 305 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,319 So if your skies are clear, take a look in 306 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,319 the northwest sky. You can't miss Venus. It's incredible, the 307 00:20:13,319 --> 00:20:16,000 brightest object that's in the sky other than the Sun 308 00:20:16,039 --> 00:20:18,640 and the moon. And if you look at that planet 309 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:21,039 just at the lower right, it was actually closer the 310 00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:24,640 other day. We call it a special conjunction, the bright 311 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,480 star Regulus in Leo the Lion. These two objects Venus 312 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,359 the planet and the star seventy seven light years away. 313 00:20:31,839 --> 00:20:34,000 We're extremely close in the sky by less than a 314 00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:36,640 degree in the heavens. But the best is yet to 315 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,839 come because this month opens up. I always mention as 316 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,079 we move toward the New Moon that happens on the fourteenth, 317 00:20:43,079 --> 00:20:45,279 when the sky is dark. The moon is not visible, 318 00:20:45,319 --> 00:20:47,960 of course, thus the new Moon. If you live in 319 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,720 an area that you're listening to the Doctor sky experience, 320 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,720 that's out in a way from a good percentage of 321 00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:55,839 city lights. And even if you are, there's still things 322 00:20:55,839 --> 00:20:59,079 to see, like the Venus Conjunction. The majesty of the 323 00:20:59,079 --> 00:21:01,279 summer Milky Way is going to be on tap. It's 324 00:21:01,319 --> 00:21:04,839 amazing right around eleven PM if you look due south, 325 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,960 and many people that run vacation during the summer, of course, 326 00:21:08,599 --> 00:21:10,599 take a look with the naked eye in a clear, 327 00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:14,200 unobstructed view of the horizon, you ladies and gentlemen will 328 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,039 be treated to seeing a sight of the Milky Way 329 00:21:17,519 --> 00:21:20,480 at its core. This is the region of Scorpius, the 330 00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:25,720 Scorpion and the majestic constellation Sagittarius. This is laden right 331 00:21:25,759 --> 00:21:30,519 Pill with star clouds that are just overpowering binoculars. I 332 00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:34,079 guarantee you right Pill people will say, oh wow, I 333 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,440 can't believe that we're seeing that. Because twenty seven thousand 334 00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:40,960 light years into that big bunch of stars, and that 335 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,720 mist is the biggest location for the Galaxy Center. And 336 00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:49,400 in that center, ladies and gentlemen, there's a super massive 337 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,079 black hole. Luckily we're not there because it eats stars 338 00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:55,720 for breakfast, like we might be going in just a 339 00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:59,200 moment to the snack bar. On the Doctor Sky Experience, 340 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,119 we want to convert the next half hour of this 341 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,519 two hour show to a conversation with you about Air 342 00:22:05,559 --> 00:22:07,759 Force one, the history of what you know about it, 343 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,319 the changes that have happened here, and I'm sure many 344 00:22:10,319 --> 00:22:14,799 people may have questions about this particular aircraft that now 345 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,000 is the replacement temporarily for Air Force One, and exactly what, 346 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,039 in your opinion, might have happened with the President of 347 00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:24,200 the United States when he was over in Turkey for 348 00:22:24,279 --> 00:22:27,640 a summit with NATO and why he changed planes. There's 349 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,359 many stories out there. We don't want to speculate, but 350 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,119 we want to get into the meet in the heart 351 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,039 of Air Force one, one of the most iconic aircraft 352 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,880 in the world. Here on the Doctor Sky Experience. We'll 353 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,359 be right back with our special guest Bill Jenni and 354 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,839 your questions to put you to the front of the 355 00:22:42,839 --> 00:22:44,640 Theater of the Mind one eight hundred eight four to 356 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,519 eight nine two two two. Thank you for being with us. 357 00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: The Doctor Sky Experience entertaining and informative. 358 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 2: On the Red Apple podcast Network. 359 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: The Sky Experience is on the air seventy seven WABC. 360 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 2: Now Here's Doctor Sky. 361 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,079 Speaker 5: My name is Richard Graham. I retired Colonel flew the 362 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,920 SR seventy one for eight years. Book I wrote on 363 00:23:20,039 --> 00:23:22,880 flying the SR seventy one is available. I think you'll 364 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,079 enjoy it. Makes it through a complete mission from start 365 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,839 to finish. I enjoyed talking with Steve Gates, and I 366 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,680 look forward to the next time we can talk more 367 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,319 about the SR seventy one Blackbird. You're listening to the 368 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,279 Doctor Sky Show right now. 369 00:23:35,599 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 3: Air Force one is operated by a specially selected twenty 370 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,680 six member military crew from the eighty ninth Air Left 371 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,039 Wing based at Joint Pace Andrews in Maryland. We continue 372 00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:49,680 with our special guest, Bill Yennie, author, historian and book producer, 373 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,000 a man with vast knowledge not only in the aviation world, 374 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,880 but in so much about American history and as from 375 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,119 time to time, you know, proudly we talk about American exceptionalism. 376 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,119 Talk to us share knowledge about America's iconic aircraft, air 377 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,519 Force one, some of its history as we move on 378 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:08,640 to current times today. 379 00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 4: Well, the first thing they should say is that air 380 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:21,359 Force one is not an airplane. It is a call 381 00:24:21,559 --> 00:24:26,559 sign of any airplane. But the President of the United 382 00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:34,960 States is a board and the airplanes are. They have 383 00:24:35,079 --> 00:24:39,160 been oh a half dozen designated airplanes going back to 384 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:49,680 nineteen forty three that have been presidential aircraft. The call 385 00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:53,000 sign air Force one was you know, it's like a 386 00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:59,000 flight number. You know, I'm flying that Phoenix tomorrow on 387 00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:04,519 you United twelve forty eight. You know, it's it's a 388 00:25:04,519 --> 00:25:11,599 flight number. And this whole thing started in the site. 389 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:19,480 The signing of of the air Force one flight number 390 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:26,680 originated in nineteen fifty four after ten years of various aircraft, 391 00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:34,400 and it was it was happened when President Eisenhower was 392 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:40,599 was flying somewhere and air traffic control got confused because 393 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,440 they were at that up to that time, they used 394 00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:50,119 various call signs for the for the presidential mission that 395 00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:53,640 they didn't highlight the fact that this is the president. 396 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,839 So that's that's been a confusion, which well, I don't 397 00:26:00,839 --> 00:26:06,359 know that it endangered Eisenhower, but it was definitely something 398 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,160 that where he wasn't allowed to land or or transit 399 00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:18,440 to the particular that of airspace. They initiated Air Force one. 400 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,279 Air Force one is the president's airplane, no matter what 401 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,640 it is. But there's been a lot of air Force, 402 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,960 a lot of presidential airplanes. The original one was in 403 00:26:31,799 --> 00:26:40,680 DC four designated VC fifty four back in during Roosevelt's administration. 404 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,200 He made only a couple of flights on it, and 405 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,440 there were women. When Truman became president, they used a 406 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,119 They continue to use the VC fifty four douglass VC 407 00:26:57,559 --> 00:27:01,480 fifty four for a couple of years. Then they upgraded 408 00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:05,400 to a DC six, designated that as VC one eighteen, 409 00:27:06,839 --> 00:27:10,839 and this was in nineteen forty seven. He named it Independence, 410 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:16,720 after his hometown in Missouri. He flew that Eisenhower came 411 00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:21,359 into office and he had used a he had used 412 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:28,680 a one one luckeyed Constellation when he was ahead of NATO. 413 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 3: And I've seen that plane, right, I've seen that plane Columbine, 414 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:33,680 which is beautiful. 415 00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:36,599 Speaker 4: Ya. That was Columbine one. And then when he was 416 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,680 as president he used two two Columbines of Columbine two, 417 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,680 which was one twenty one A and in Columbine three, 418 00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:50,799 which is one twenty one E. The name Columbine is 419 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,359 came from being the state flower of Colorado, which was 420 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,599 his wife's home state. So that that and then late 421 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:08,079 in his in his presidency, they decided that he deserved 422 00:28:08,279 --> 00:28:13,240 jet and this was the the advent of the seven 423 00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:18,680 O seven as the America's leading jet airliner in the 424 00:28:18,759 --> 00:28:23,400 late fifties. So they got a similar design almost identical 425 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:29,920 to the seven seven and designated it as VC one 426 00:28:30,039 --> 00:28:34,799 thirty seven, and the VC one thirty seven's remained in 427 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:42,200 service for decades and the one that brought Kennedy to 428 00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:47,319 Dallas and Brian back to Washington is one. 429 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 3: Of the build Yeah, that's very interesting because people may 430 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,759 not as well people have seen this if they're a 431 00:28:52,759 --> 00:28:56,000 little older in years, but for the young audience out there, 432 00:28:56,359 --> 00:28:58,599 this was the aircraft at the time with the tragic 433 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,319 day in November obviously the day of Kent President Kennedy's 434 00:29:01,319 --> 00:29:04,720 assassination November twenty second. In the back of that airplane, 435 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,039 there you see a kind of haphazard swearing in as 436 00:29:08,039 --> 00:29:11,519 many people have reported to the new President, Lyndon Johnson, 437 00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:14,599 and it's so sad because we see pictures and I've 438 00:29:14,599 --> 00:29:16,680 read so much and I'm sure you know more about it. 439 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,599 Poor Jackie Kennedy standing there in her you know, in 440 00:29:20,599 --> 00:29:23,079 her dress and her suit and blood stained, and she's 441 00:29:23,079 --> 00:29:26,319 standing there totally, you know, mesmerized. Of course, who wouldn't be. 442 00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:30,920 This is horrible And apparently a quick swearing in and 443 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,400 then a whole controversy exists, a whole nother show and 444 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,400 a whole other subject about trying to get the president's 445 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,759 casket on board the airplane. And you probably know a 446 00:29:39,759 --> 00:29:41,680 lot more about that. I mean, a moment in history 447 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,960 that many people may not even know about. It was 448 00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:48,200 not a smooth affair by any means correct, well, a. 449 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,279 Speaker 4: Lot of it, a lot of missions gone by the 450 00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:57,640 Air Force and not gone smoothly. But they work at 451 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,039 it and they make it happen. And they did that 452 00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:03,880 with this, and that was sort of the early days 453 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,079 of the VC one thirty seven Air Force ones. And 454 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:15,640 they continue to serve Sir Johnson and Nixon, carter Ford, 455 00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:28,200 Reagan wasn't until it wasn't until George Bush, the first 456 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:33,880 that they upgraded to the seven forty seven two hundreds. 457 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 3: The beginning of the seven forty seven, four, eight, nine, 458 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,960 two two too. If you have questions regarding this subject. 459 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,799 Billionnie of course, author, historian, book producer, a man that 460 00:30:44,839 --> 00:30:47,319 has so many titles and so much information to share 461 00:30:47,359 --> 00:30:50,400 with us. But the story continues. This is amazing as 462 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,720 we move into the seven forty seven right now era. 463 00:30:53,559 --> 00:30:56,359 You described to me off off air a while ago 464 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,640 that you had ridden in one of these airplanes, but 465 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,160 not air Force won by any means, means what did 466 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,440 you do? What aircraft was it, and what were you doing? 467 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:09,599 Speaker 4: If you can share that, well, there's a all those 468 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,960 years that the VC one thirty seven's were flying, they 469 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,400 had a fleet of them, just as now they have 470 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:22,480 a fleet of VC twenty five a's and whatever. When 471 00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:28,599 the president is on is has the Air Force one designation, 472 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,400 and so there were a fleet of these things. And 473 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,079 this goes back to the nineteen seventies when I was 474 00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:42,200 in the early eighties, when I I was doing paintings 475 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,799 for the US Air Force Art Collection. 476 00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 3: That's number wow, another part of your talent there you go. 477 00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. And so they worked with the societies of illustrators 478 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,359 in New York, San Francisco, and Los Angeles, and we 479 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,839 produced the paintings, and then we were flown to Washington 480 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,119 every year for a presentation which took place at the 481 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:14,799 Officers Club at Andrew's Air Force Base, and they would 482 00:32:15,119 --> 00:32:18,000 send an airplane to pick us up. They would stop 483 00:32:18,039 --> 00:32:21,039 in San Francisco, flight to La, load up a bunch 484 00:32:21,079 --> 00:32:28,119 of artists, and flym to Washington to get into Toxedos 485 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,359 and present their paintings to the Secretary of the Air 486 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,119 Force and Chase of Staff and the whole room full 487 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,319 of dignitaries. And usually they sent a C one forty 488 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:46,240 one airlifter and starlifter and and you know, which is 489 00:32:46,279 --> 00:32:51,559 a just a routine airplane with a transport airplane with 490 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:58,000 the not very fancy interior as it's a military transport. 491 00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:02,039 And which was fine. It was. It was a free 492 00:33:02,039 --> 00:33:06,160 trip and we had to spend as much time as 493 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,400 we wanted on the flight deck. And but one year 494 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:16,039 apparently there wasn't a C one forty one available, so 495 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,440 they sure they weren't Andrews Air Force Base, and we 496 00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:23,359 gotta we got to send a plane out there and 497 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,039 pick these people up. They are supposedly important. 498 00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:29,119 Speaker 3: You bet you get them where they got to go. 499 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 4: They said, a VC one thirty seven, and that was 500 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,359 pretty amazing. If you've you know, you've you've traveled on 501 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,559 fancy executive jets. I haven't had the pleasure of doing 502 00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:50,920 that very often, but it's a it's a whole different 503 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:58,200 world from the from the military transports or even routine airliners. 504 00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:05,759 It was very, very nice interior, and there were no 505 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,360 presidential sales anywhere, if there were places on the walls 506 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,079 where they would have been. But the tail number was 507 00:34:14,119 --> 00:34:20,440 a gimaway. Twenty six thousand was was a tail number 508 00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:24,320 of the one that was used for Air Force run. 509 00:34:25,079 --> 00:34:25,840 This was not that. 510 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,599 Speaker 3: If you have questions, folks, one eight four, eight nine 511 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:31,840 two two two. As we move into the last quarter 512 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,000 of our show before this particular break, Bill Yenni, author, historian, 513 00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:38,039 book producer. When we come back, Bill, I'd like to 514 00:34:38,039 --> 00:34:40,760 spend the time, if you don't mind, in discussing the 515 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,840 latest iteration of Air Force one, the one that some 516 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,480 people say was rushed into production. I would disagree. And then, 517 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,840 of course the somewhat controversy that we've heard about trying 518 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,679 to get a declarative, you know, answer to what happened 519 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,320 when the president. Of course, why we think we know 520 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,280 why there was a change of venue. And I guess 521 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,679 the question would be when we hold off on that 522 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,400 answer when we come back, is is the new airplane 523 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,000 that's the Katari aircraft, the eight hundred, you know, the 524 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,960 seven forty seven Tosh eight, is it, in your opinion, 525 00:35:11,079 --> 00:35:13,239 really up to par? And is maybe it doesn't have 526 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,159 every single feature that the older seven forty seven has. 527 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,159 And then we'd get you to describe so many of 528 00:35:20,199 --> 00:35:23,679 the things that, well they're not state secrets that you 529 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,599 can tell us about the older air Force one, as 530 00:35:26,599 --> 00:35:28,760 far as some of the big safety features it has, 531 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,599 and some of the amazing shielding, electromagnetic pulse shielding, and 532 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,480 so much more on an airplane like that, it's an 533 00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:38,440 amazing story. And you know I've seen that like you 534 00:35:38,559 --> 00:35:41,119 have so many of these seven forty sevens. We had 535 00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:43,480 an interview not too long ago with a gentleman named 536 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,039 Bill Sutter. I don't know if you ever knew him 537 00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:48,440 from Boeing, the designer of the seven forty seven. People 538 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,679 do hear his little promo every once in a while. 539 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,400 What a story, what an airline designer, not only of 540 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,159 the seven forty seven, but I believe also the seven 541 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,480 twenty seven if I'm correct on that. 542 00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:05,079 Speaker 4: But Bill, he was a key person that at Bowing 543 00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:09,360 in the early days of the jet age. 544 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 3: Bill, We'll be right back here on the Doctor Sky 545 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,920 Experience one eight eight, four, eight, nine two two. And 546 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,639 we thank you Lad has done it for spending a 547 00:36:17,639 --> 00:36:20,519 good portion of your weekend. As we consider as we 548 00:36:20,559 --> 00:36:23,239 move into the dog days of summer, I need not 549 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,559 remind you about the temperatures that are here, but they're 550 00:36:26,639 --> 00:36:28,920 less than that of the planet of Venus, which every 551 00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:33,880 day the average temperature is nine twenty degrees fahrenheit. But wow, 552 00:36:34,199 --> 00:36:36,679 we're only telling you the truth. We'll be right back. 553 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: The Doctor Sky Experience entertaining and informative. 554 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 2: On the Red Apple podcast Network. 555 00:36:47,639 --> 00:36:55,039 Speaker 1: The Doctor Sky Experience is on the air seventy seven WABC. 556 00:36:56,039 --> 00:36:59,840 Now here's Doctor Sky. 557 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 4: I happened to be the first guy that both had 558 00:37:05,039 --> 00:37:07,960 the ruler of pleasure of Betest. 559 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 2: So Doctor Sky. 560 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 3: Great to hear from late passage, the late passage of 561 00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:19,599 course of General Chuck Yeger, first man to fly faster 562 00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:23,519 than sound nineteen forty seven. But some interesting factoids about 563 00:37:23,559 --> 00:37:26,400 seven forty sevens How about this the slowest commercial seven 564 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,360 forty seven flew at mock zero point zero. It was 565 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,800 converted a seven forty seven two hundred jumbo into a 566 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,519 hotel in Stockholm, Sweden. It had twenty seven rooms and 567 00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:40,559 you could stay in that kind of remodeled seven forty 568 00:37:40,599 --> 00:37:43,320 seven without the wings, I believe for two hundred dollars 569 00:37:43,559 --> 00:37:46,519 US dollars. But on a sad note, the worst aviation 570 00:37:46,639 --> 00:37:50,599 disaster between seven forty sevens happened the islands, the Canary 571 00:37:50,599 --> 00:37:54,159 Islands and Tenerief when two seven forty sevens collided sadly 572 00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:57,559 on the ground, five hundred and eighty three souls perished 573 00:37:57,679 --> 00:38:00,960 during that moment in time billion he joins us author 574 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,559 his story and a book producer his website, Bill Yennie 575 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,840 y E NNY dot com. Bill, in the moments we 576 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,400 have before the close of the show, talk about this 577 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,639 Katari aircraft, the seven forty seven that was gifted to 578 00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:15,119 the US, some of the things about it that you 579 00:38:15,159 --> 00:38:17,800 can tell us, and also what might be when many 580 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,639 people's mind's still an unsolved situation, the change of planes, 581 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,920 and obviously many people read into this as maybe there 582 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,400 was a threat. Again, as we hear about the threats 583 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,840 and assassination attempts, hopefully that never succeeded on President you 584 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,320 know Donald John Trump tell us about the Katari aircraft. 585 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 4: Well, the original seven forty seven air Force one, the 586 00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:47,360 VC twenty five A was a was a stock two 587 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:53,639 hundred model with the short upper deck. Bowing had subsequently 588 00:38:53,800 --> 00:39:01,400 introduced the longer, longer upper decks and the seven and 589 00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:08,920 seven seven Dash eight And it's a better airplane. It's 590 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:18,079 it's more, there's more more room, there's it's technologically better. Yeah. 591 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,719 Air Force has been working with Bullying for for many 592 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:27,079 many years to get to develop a new a new 593 00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:32,000 air Force one airplane, a new VC five B. And 594 00:39:33,159 --> 00:39:38,920 when Trump came into office, he said, let's let's accelerate 595 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,039 that thing. There's no reason why they should take years 596 00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:47,320 to build up exactly an airplane. And well, the Kataris 597 00:39:48,159 --> 00:39:51,960 offered him an airplane that they had in their fleet. 598 00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:56,119 We have a seven forty seven Dash eight. We'll give 599 00:39:56,159 --> 00:40:01,639 it to them. And so they did, and that was 600 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,840 and it took it took quite a lot of time, 601 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,760 and it did. It took a lot of money to 602 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:16,840 convert this thing because it needs hardened defenses, it needs 603 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:25,119 communications gear, needs an aerial refueling capability. Seven forty sevens. 604 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 3: Don't have that exactly, they don't. 605 00:40:28,119 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 4: The VC twenty five AD had it, and that had 606 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:39,559 to be put into a into the new presidential airplane. 607 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,599 Many many things that internally to this airplane needed to 608 00:40:44,599 --> 00:40:48,119 be done, but they got it done in less than 609 00:40:48,159 --> 00:40:51,960 two years. It had been been going for four or 610 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,559 five six years before that and this, and they still 611 00:40:56,599 --> 00:41:00,440 didn't have an airplane to show for it. So they 612 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:05,239 got one off the shelf and upgraded it and it 613 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,360 started flying this month. Yes, he went to he took 614 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:18,320 this airplane to the summit in Anchora, and he and 615 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:24,159 they sent the older DC twenty five A to pick 616 00:41:24,199 --> 00:41:30,000 him up. And the reason being that the new airplane 617 00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:37,400 does not have the full suite of missile offenses that 618 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:44,760 the Air Force deans is the minimum requirements for flying 619 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,280 in a war zone. And well, what do you have 620 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,280 in the Middle East? You have a war zone. 621 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,599 Speaker 3: You sure do, Bill, And I'm concerned about one thing 622 00:41:54,639 --> 00:41:56,480 here to go more to the political side of this. 623 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,119 You know, I'm not second guessing anything at this point, 624 00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:01,199 but like you and I and everybody listening, we have 625 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,079 an ability to say, wait, we hold the phone. Folks. 626 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,639 If you knew that this aircraft, the Katari aircraft, is 627 00:42:07,679 --> 00:42:09,800 not all the way up to speed at this point 628 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,480 in time. Why would you risk the president's life when 629 00:42:12,519 --> 00:42:15,679 you know you're going into a hotbed in that area 630 00:42:16,199 --> 00:42:20,039 where even theoretically or maybe more factually, the Iranians still 631 00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:23,360 possessed these missiles, some of them which had much longer range. 632 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,760 I'm sure even if they had just a couple, that's 633 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,880 a big risk assessment. So it's kind of a little 634 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,079 bit surprising that they would even let that happen. But again, 635 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,119 thank god our president is safe. But what do you 636 00:42:34,159 --> 00:42:35,599 say on that. I mean, I don't want to push 637 00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:38,480 you into the political realm too much, but that's that's 638 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,880 a little bit miscalculated in my opinion. 639 00:42:41,079 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I think, I say, I can see everything 640 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,880 that you're saying, and they would have to say that 641 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,800 I wasn't there. 642 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,599 Speaker 3: I didn't exactly. 643 00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know why who made this decision. 644 00:42:55,199 --> 00:42:57,639 I don't know why it was made. I do know 645 00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:01,960 that situation, the situation in when he went home in 646 00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:05,840 air there was a ceasefire in place, and that that 647 00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:11,960 ceasefire humbled while he was there. And I know that, 648 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:18,840 I know that he used he has used the BC 649 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:27,360 five in the United States. But you know, you're asking 650 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,280 questions that I'm really not qualified to answer. 651 00:43:30,519 --> 00:43:33,599 Speaker 3: No, I totally respect your response, because nobody really can. 652 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,000 I mean, we could go off on different tangents, but 653 00:43:36,039 --> 00:43:38,360 we like to get facts, and of course, with your background, 654 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,519 you've given us a wealth of information on these subjects 655 00:43:41,519 --> 00:43:44,360 of the history of this particular aircraft. And then the 656 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,880 question becomes this, what's next, Bill Jennie? For this, I mean, 657 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,280 are we now in production? So the audience knows that 658 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,239 this particular aircraft, the Katari aircraft, is not going to 659 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,760 be the long stay aircraft. What's in the works right now? 660 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,679 Are they building two new ones? Is that what's happened? 661 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 4: Yes, they're building They're building two new VC twenty five 662 00:44:05,559 --> 00:44:10,000 b's and look a lot like the Katari aircraft that 663 00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:14,880 they're coming. They're coming straight from the Boeing factory. And 664 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,440 they're going to have all of the defensive features that 665 00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:23,880 are present in the in the VC twenty five A 666 00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:28,480 that's been around for the last twenty five years and more. 667 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,400 And that will that those airplanes are coming. 668 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,360 Speaker 3: Do you know when I mean, is that something that 669 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,599 we're talking about? A couple of years. 670 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, a couple of years, and nobody knows exactly when that. 671 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,400 That was part of the problem was the the were 672 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,639 They've been working on this for more than a couple 673 00:44:51,679 --> 00:44:56,440 of years, and these things just and yet to materialize. 674 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,800 And that's why the Qataris said, hey, we got one, 675 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:00,679 you have ours. 676 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:04,760 Speaker 3: I'd love to have one of those, wouldn't you. But 677 00:45:05,199 --> 00:45:07,320 I don't think either of us not to put you 678 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,480 in a bad financial situation. I'll be totally honest, And 679 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,599 I'm sure everybody listening would imagine what the rate to 680 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,239 run that airplane, the Katari version. 681 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a little pricinger than it would be, a. 682 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,639 Speaker 3: Little out of most people's pockets. I imagine if you 683 00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:25,480 have any clue of what it takes to run one 684 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,079 of those, even forty seven's per hour. I mean, there's 685 00:45:28,119 --> 00:45:29,480 all kinds of numbers out there. 686 00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:34,639 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I could leave through some of my notes 687 00:45:34,639 --> 00:45:37,719 here and come up with something that off the top 688 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,360 of my head, I don't know. I know, it's totally 689 00:45:41,079 --> 00:45:42,760 you know, it's one of those things that you have 690 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,559 to ask you can't afford it. 691 00:45:45,079 --> 00:45:48,239 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. I mean, it's amazing. But the new 692 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,960 aircraft that they have right now. The temporary replacement must 693 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,159 be beautiful. I haven't seen, or I don't think anybody's 694 00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:56,960 really seen the beauty of the interior of that aircraft. 695 00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,320 If there was no such thing as war and bad 696 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,639 actors in the world. World, it's just a gorgeous executive aircraft. 697 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,360 Speaker 4: Right well, yes it is. It's sort of the best, 698 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:13,119 you know, the best it can be. It was a 699 00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:19,679 gorgeous executive aircraft when when the Kataris had it, you know, 700 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:26,400 it's been remodeled for for the president. I bet they. 701 00:46:26,519 --> 00:46:29,800 I bet they've reimpostered all the seats. 702 00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:31,840 Speaker 3: And they went over it with a fine tooth comb, 703 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,559 I'm sure, with every surveillance X ray device known to 704 00:46:34,599 --> 00:46:38,079 mankind or whatever, to make sure that that aircraft had 705 00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:43,480 nothing inside it that compromise and security, communications or anything else. 706 00:46:44,039 --> 00:46:47,199 Speaker 4: Bill. Thank you. We've got to remember these things. This airplane, 707 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,559 this airplane was was built in the United States. It 708 00:46:50,639 --> 00:46:50,880 was not. 709 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,119 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely up and probably. 710 00:46:53,800 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 4: Bully and Everett Washington. So it's it's an American airplane. 711 00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:04,559 Speaker 3: Billy, Annie, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. 712 00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:06,679 The clock rules as always here and again thank you 713 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,519 to all the guests from our one and everybody, and 714 00:47:09,559 --> 00:47:12,320 excuse me the callers, as we continue to talk about 715 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,519 these great subjects that you tell us if you have 716 00:47:14,559 --> 00:47:16,199 an email that you'd like to send me, I do 717 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,039 promise to email back and respond. That's a simple way 718 00:47:19,079 --> 00:47:21,400 to do it, the polite way. It's just d r 719 00:47:21,639 --> 00:47:25,280 sk y of course at w ABC radio dot com. 720 00:47:25,679 --> 00:47:28,039 And we appreciate everybody. Bill, what's next for you? You 721 00:47:28,119 --> 00:47:30,719 got about a minute or less, any new book coming 722 00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,239 that you want to share with us, or any top 723 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:32,840 Oh I've. 724 00:47:32,679 --> 00:47:35,159 Speaker 4: Got I've got a few things in the works that 725 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:40,440 I don't have I don't have release dates. Check out 726 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,800 just check check check me out on Amazon or check 727 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,559 me out on jilna dot com and you'll see all 728 00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:52,400 the recent books. Bill. 729 00:47:53,159 --> 00:47:55,320 Speaker 3: The privileging honor to have you here, I really mean that, 730 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,239 I appreciate it. The clock rules and I say thank 731 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,519 you and look forward to talking with you about this 732 00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:02,599 and hopefully we'll meet up at some of the air 733 00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:05,079 shows in the future, or can shake your hand and 734 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,280 get you to sign a couple of my books. And 735 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,320 I'm sure my brother Joe from a Photorecon dot net 736 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,400 would certainly appreciate the same thing. Bill Jenning, author, historian 737 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,840 and book producer. Thanks for being with us on The 738 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,880 Doctor Sky Experience. Always a privilege. 739 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 4: Thank you, sir. 740 00:48:21,039 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: The Doctor Sky Experience entertaining and informative 741 00:48:25,559 --> 00:48:27,679 Speaker 2: On the Red Apple podcast network