Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sikos.
Speaker 2: I am Dan fa Valley coming at you with a
very special NBA regular season debut podcast. While I was
speaking with a local expert for each team, I asked
each of them what was the biggest storyline they would
be following throughout this coming season. I've put all of
those answers together for the podcast that you were about
to watch and or listen to. If you've checked out
all thirty of our look Ahead episodes, most of this
won't be new for you. Some of it will be new.
Grant and I specifically had to record the Timberwolves one.
Kyle Tak's amazing, fantastic, but we recorded our Wolves look
Ahead before the Karl Anthony Towns, Julius Randall, Dante DiVincenzo trade.
So bounce around. This will be time stamped. If you
haven't checked out our look Ahead series yet, where have
you been? Have you not subscribed yet? Because you should
hit that subscriber button on YouTube or go to apples
Spotify and do it, and then I will love you forever,
especially if you let me know that you're a new subscriber.
Join our discord as well. The link to that's in
the podcast and YouTube description. There's still time to enter
our over under competition. The winner gets a merch item
of their choice and just as notably, the chance to
guest host a mailbag episode. As I've said before, that's
life changing stuff. But this exercise was fun. I hope
you enjoy the conversations I had with all of these
guests who are smarter and more better than me at this.
Had a great time talking to all of them, and
just once more, each of those individual pause the exception
of the Timberwolves one and Grant, and I recorded some
updated thoughts after the trade. They will remain relevant, I
would think for at least the first twenty something games
of the season, as teams are kind of figuring things out.
Trades will mostly date a lot of those thoughts, and
we're probably not going to see a ton of those
until December. With that, though, let's get to the biggest
storyline for every NBA team during the twenty twenty four
twenty twenty five regular season. Aside from anything we've talked about,
what is the biggest storyline for this team that you'll
be monitoring throughout next season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there are probably not Probably there are
a lot of storylines with this team. Obviously, it's how
does Zachary res Chet adjust to the NBA. You know,
is he able to sort of have the type of
success that he was able to have at Jailborg in
the EuroLeague? You know, is he able to kind of
use his high basketball IQ to make some of the
cuts to the basket that you know kind of drew
the attention of a lot of scouts in the pre
draft process. Is he able to knock shots down from three?
Can he stretch the floor? Is he able to add
some strength to him because he is kind of a
I use the word lanky before. He is very lanky.
He's definitely gotten eighteen body, and so how he's able
to do that I'd love to see, you know, the
rise of Kobe Buffin. He was injured a lot last season,
missed a lot of his rookie year, So it would
be interesting to see how he fits into the rotation.
Because when you look at sort of the projected it's
Trey Dyson, DeAndre Jalen Clint. As you're starting five, it's
likely gonna be either Bogie Bogdan Bogdanovic or Onyeko Congo
as the first off. The bench probably go with Bogie,
just so that you know, you have that sort of
minute or so for Trey to kind of sit about
midway through the first quarter, and then he usually comes
back toward the end and then the other guard sits down.
Speaker 4: I kind of.
Speaker 3: Project Kobe would kind of be the backup point guard
in that sort of rotation. It's just a matter of
right because they want to see the ball in his
hands a bit more. And so that's kind of how
I anticipate things going. Obviously you have to have Zachary
orsa che in there.
Speaker 5: But.
Speaker 3: I would say he's probably like top eight top nine
in the rotation. And then the next storyline is, of course,
you know Clint and he's on the final year of
his contract. I'm sure again, I'm sure we'll talk about
it a little bit more, but like, do we finally
see the rise of Oniko Congu as you know, the
guy who is the heir apparent for you know, should
the Hawks decide not to resign Clint, which is very
hard for me to see them doing, just because again
we touched on it before. He's on the other side
of thirty, which is usually not a great thing for
free agent centers. And so he has sort of been
a guy that has taken slow starts to the season,
and then it's like post All Star break, he kind
of like breaks out a little bit more. And then
you see the old Clint that a lot of people
were so used to seeing in Houston, and they're like, Oh, yeah,
you really should be a starting center. You really earned
that spot there. So I think those are the three
big things. Obviously, you know, how does Trey Young adjust
to the new rotation and if again, like we touched on,
is he able to move off the ball a little
bit more? And then of course how does the defense fare,
because that's just something that's not synonymous with the Hawks.
It's in fact, it's like usually not the first thing
you think about when it comes to the Hawks. So
I think they've gotten better defensively just based on the
pieces that they've added. But I'd love to see how
the reality stacks up to what's on paper.
Speaker 2: Looking at the actual next season. And I'm assuming I
know the answer to this question, but what is the
biggest storyline that you're kind of tracking for this team
as they headed to twenty twenty four twenty five.
Speaker 1: It's it's the porzingis injury. Obviously, that's a massive one.
I don't think enough has been made about it.
Speaker 2: They had until like twenty twenty, like it's just like, oh,
he'll be reevaluated in six months. When that came out,
that like puts him back at like the reevaluation like
late December, right, and it just you're right, it feels
like it's not. I don't know if it's because their
record without him last year was so good, but it
feels like it hasn't been or I mean they did
win the how many games did he play in during
their playoff run? He was like or four?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, So that's a big one. I they have
the pieces to sustain it. I'd be much more worried
about it if they didn't keep Tillman, which was the
surprise of the summer. They were able to get him
two years at the minimum. So I think he's going
to be a major piece in how they sustain because
Cornett I'm the biggest Cornet fan going. But there are
matchups where he can't play. So that you have a
Tillman who basically has the opposite skill set of Cornette defensively,
that's huge and he needs to take some step. I
think his fit was a little awkward last year. He
ended up having a big moment in the finals, but
he's going to be crucial. You have options at that spot.
I do wish Prissette was back in that mix a
little bit too. He was a guy who can let
you play a little smaller. But you got Anton Watson,
who I actually think has a shot if what we
saw in some league translates to maybe playing when they're
super shorthanded. And then you have Horford at that point
of attack, which is going to be the big one,
right because I was looking last week he played thirty
minutes a game when Porzengis was out during the regular season.
Obviously he's going to play thirty forty minutes in the
playoffs with Porzengis out. But during this regular season, where
you're probably trying to scale them back even more, not
playing back to backs, you're gonna have some situations where porzengis,
many situations where Porzengis and Horford out both of them.
So how do you sustain in those situations? Do you
have enough depth at that spot through some of the
performances among those centers, The depth centers of surprise. I
think across the board, even Cato last year was effective
in his spots. Do those carry into this year? Why
are you going to take a little bit of a
step back in the regular season and how much does
that matter? And that goes to the second story I'm tracking,
which is the hangover effect. How much of the commitment
to the roles that we saw last year carries over
to this year? Is there any relaxing? Is there any fatigue?
I think that goes hand in hand with the porzingis thing.
Speaker 2: Because I monopolize so much of what we talk about
on this podcast, I want to throw it to you first.
What is the single biggest storyline for this team that
you're going to be monitoring into and kind of throughout
this next year.
Speaker 7: I'll give you one general one, which is just can
we maintain some good vibes and like positivity over a
twelve month stretch?
Speaker 6: Do we think that's impossible?
Speaker 7: Or do we think whatever ancient burial ground slash affordable
housing neighborhood Barkley Center was built on top of has
made that an impossibility for this franchise. So that's number one.
Speaker 2: The first year of the rebuild is kind of like
a honeymoon period normally, Yeah, they don't have. I think
what also would help is they don't I'm thinking on
the roster right now, Like they don't have anyone that's
gonna become a malcontent because they're so bad Like Cam Johnson,
DFS aren't those types of dudes. Ben Simmons doesn't have
the cash anymore for you to care if that's like
where he ends up. So I would think that like
this might be I feel like this is gonna be
the year of the vibes in Brooklyn. Like I feel
like the vibes will be good, even though the wins
will be sparse.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and it's gonna be like a challenge for guys
like Camp Thomas and Nick Klaxton to like be like okay,
like year four, year five, Like you guys are like
leaders now, you know, like the Vets, you've been here
for a while, we need you to kind of implement this.
Speaker 6: Culture under a new coach.
Speaker 7: So I think it's gonna be cool to see those
guys try to buy into that role. I mean, Cam
Johnson and Dorian will talk about it, but they're not
here for the long haul in all likelihood.
Speaker 6: And then I said that was kind of general.
Speaker 7: Specifically, the Thomas contract extension talks are well, I guess
not extension, but what they're gonna do with him as
his contract expires. It's gonna become a big story for
this team. Like for a third year player last year,
we heard absolutely nothing about a potential extension, Like they
didn't talk at the end of last year, they didn't
talk in the summer. You know, they still have a
couple more months to get it done, but it seems
like both sides like, no, they're gonna wait until the
end of next season to negotiate. So I would say specifically,
that is what is going to emerge as a storyline
for this team.
Speaker 2: I have a ton of my own questions and there's
a chance to answer to this steps on the toes
of those, which is that's the point that would be
in lockstep. But what is your aside from the stuff
you've just mentioned, what is the biggest storyline that you're
monitoring with this team heading into twenty four to twenty five?
Speaker 8: How many games does LaMelo Ball play? Like It's it's
that simple. If LaMelo Ball plays fifty to seventy five games,
this team is winning at minimum like you can put
your money on the over, which I believe is twenty
nine point five right now. So you're telling so at
this point, if you tell me he's playing fifty to
seventy five games, then this team is going to win
thirty games or more. If Mark Williams, who has not
played more than forty games, play like it's it's all
about health.
Speaker 2: This is wild that those two have played. I know
Mark Owen has been the league for two years. They
played forty games together. That's not even a half season.
Speaker 8: That's exactly think about it like this, Mark Williams probably
hasn't had a full offseason weight training program with the
Charlotte and like as a pro because last year he
got hurt because of his thumb, and you know, you
can't really do any lifting on it with a bad thumb.
Like that, you're talking about a dude that might be
slightly underdeveloped. But like, if those two play fifty games,
I think this team is going to be better than
people think.
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 8: I'm not saying sure playoff thing. I'm not saying they're
Cleveland from a few years ago. But what I am
saying is this team has been hindered a lot by health,
and I do think that if they do get healthy,
a lot of things are going to fix itself. And
the vision that Mitch Cupcheck had but didn't have the
finances to really pull off, I think that will be
actualized at this point.
Speaker 2: So where are you kind of at? You mentioned the
defensive stuff, but where are you kind of at with
LaMelo Ball? I think before his injury, finishing still not great,
but like he got to the rim, like the driving
part of his game had increased. He avers like nineteen
drives for thirty six minutes last year, which is wild.
But like, what else are you looking forward to see
from him? Or just like do you see him maybe
improving his own shot selection in the ecosystem of a
team that has more of a direction, more of a
I guess, like an actual ecosystem or pecking order, a
hierarchy or talent around him in place.
Speaker 8: Like basically, the thing is, Charles Lee is not the
substitute teacher. There were times that you could tell that
LaMelo Ball and others treated Steve Clifford as the substitute
teacher in that in that locker room, and he tried
to get the attention to everybody. He couldn't, and he
lost the locker room clearly towards the end, because you
would hear a whole bunch of different things from Steve Clifford.
I expect LaMelo ball to be better in all facets.
In all facets, I expect there to be a competent
defender at some point. I expect the shot selection to
get better. I expect a whole like I expect the
drives to get better. Quite honestly, like I think there
is going to be improvement. The question is how healthy
is he actually going to be, because if he's not healthy,
all of this is moot, and this team is probably
hovering around twenty five, twenty seven, maybe even twenty nine wins.
Speaker 2: What did you make? And I'm sure you saw it.
Of there was this national discourse for a while. It
did kind of peter out that maybe the Hornet should
consider trading LaMelo so that they can reorient around Brandon Miller.
And I want to put this Friennie Hornets fans listening
and saying, oh, here we go to the national NBA podcast,
bring up Amelo trade stuff that doesn't exist. I did
not ascribe to that idea. I don't actually even understand
the genesis of it, because I don't see redundancies in
these players really at all. I think that they can
compliment each other quite nicely. So the fact that that
cropped up, like did you make anything of it? Like
what I just I found it fascinating that it was
even a discussion.
Speaker 8: I guess I'm not surprised it's a discussion. This is
the same thing that we do. Like Unfortunately, the national
media does this with a lot of the smaller, smaller
max level guys. At the same point, I think it's
maybe a year eighteen months too soon to start entertaining that.
I think there's got to be a lot more stuff.
And despite the fact that you do hear rumblings on
occasion that everyone, like the Hornets, are wanting to get
out of the LaMelo LaMelo ball business. I put it
this way, I I wouldn't make any sort of intimations
that he's done or they're gonna trade him, because it
doesn't make sense at this point. He is your draw card.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 8: Granted, Brandon Miller's come about and made it kind of interesting,
but at the same point, we're talking about a guy
when healthy that was a twenty point again, of twenty
point per game score and made things easy for quite
literally everybody on the floor that he was with and.
Speaker 2: With seven point guard like I just like, those do
not they do not grow on trees.
Speaker 8: You don't exactly, you don't trade that unless you absolutely
have to, or he basically says, yo, I'm not playing
for you anymore. And by the way, you can't really
do that anymore because the new CBA basically makes that
virtually impossible unless you're willing to sacrifice millions and millions
of dollars. So, unless they're unless both sides really won out,
I don't see the point in having this discussion unless
and I put this like, unless they start, unless they
win fifteen games, they win fifteen to twenty games, again,
maybe it becomes a conversation. Even then, most likely he's
hurt and you're trading him for quite literally pennies on
the dollar.
Speaker 2: That's the That's the thing is that when you're outlining
the fifteen win scenario, it's probably because LaMelo isn't playing,
and at that point his trade value is then nuked
because he was injured again exactly.
Speaker 8: And remember this is the first year of his extension,
So that's a forty million dollar contract that someone's gonna
have to eat and be willing to eat and be
willing to rehab a whole lot of stuff. The biggest thing,
like the ankle bracest thing was my biggest complaint about
LaMelo Ball. That's gone now Like he again, it's clear
he's got the ankle bracest. It's clear he trusts this
medical staff. So now there's going to be more of
an attention on being a professional. He does that, He's
untradable at this point because again, he takes care of
his body, comes a professional. He's wearing the ankle braces,
he's doing all this stuff. He's going like he's gonna
play fifty games if that at minimum. If he does that,
and if he plays at minimum fifty games, he plays
sixty games, he plays sixty five, we may see the
return of All Star LaMelo Ball if that happens.
Speaker 2: If he plays, if he hits the games threshold played threshold,
I firmly believe I tend to be higher on him
than consensus. Like we're talking about an All NBA caliber
player here. I wouldn't guarantee it, but if he plays
in sixty five plus games, my guess is he will
be in the conversation, even if it's on the periphery.
And that is an incredibly difficult player to find.
Speaker 8: Exactly, Like that's you don't trade those guys unless unless
you're getting quite quite literally the Paul George package, Like
that's what you get, Like that's what you trade him for.
And there's no team that really has that outside of
Utah and maybe okay, okay, see, yeah that really has
it and okay, see doesn't need that guy.
Speaker 2: So you look at this team, then what is the
storyline or whatever that you're going to be following, the
biggest story that you're gonna following most closely throughout the season.
Speaker 9: It's a good question. I mean, I think that people
will be tracking the draft pick. That's gonna be a
big one. Like if you're like you're you're I mean,
they're rebuilding. They want to say, oh, they're not like rebuilding, rebuilding,
You're rebuilding like Damar's gone, You're trying to drade zec Lavine,
You're trying to get rid of the Kolvu switch, even
though they're still here, Like they clearly don't want Zach
doesn't want to be here. He doesn't want it to
be for a long time. Buch's thirty four, he's on
the decline, Like those guys are gonna be on their
way out too, like the rebuilding, so like losing the
pick this year would be really hard to swallow, Like
the only way that that would be good is so
I guess this kind of plays into the other story,
like are there the young guys they do have? Like
are they gonna take a big leap? Is like Josh
Giddy gonna they're gonna make in the starting point guard?
Like is he gonna find his game again? Is Patrick
William's gonna take the much awaited leap? Is Kobe White
gonna take another step forward after finishing second and most
Improved Player voting sumo? Another good young player? Like are
those guys gonna step forward? And like can they make
the bulls? Would they make the bulls good enough to
lose that pig? Like if that happen, like you could
maybe stomach like them if they were good enough to
finish outside the top ten?
Speaker 5: Uh maybe?
Speaker 9: And then I I mean, of course, like the vuchin
Zac stuff will be something to follow all year two.
Zach again, we'll talk about those situations individually in a bit,
But yeah, pick, keeping the pick while developing young guys
is basically story of the season for me.
Speaker 2: Before we get into more of the granular aspects of
this team its upcoming season, what is the biggest single
development storyline whatever that you're just looking at or going
to be monitoring, not just heading into next season, but
over the course of it.
Speaker 10: You know, you bring on someone that covers the calves
all the time so they don't give the same answers
that the national folks are going to do. But I
think I've got to go default here and say the
growth of Evan Mobley, I flat out think when you
are building an offense around two smaller guards, you need
to have a front court initiator for it to work,
right Like we saw that with Toronto when they won
the championship with with Fred Van Vlieta and Kyle Lowry
playing major minutes together. You had that with Marc Gasol right,
and Kawhi Leonard was able to do some of that.
You need to have a front court initiator to alleviate
the pressure and allow those guards to not have to
face you know, the traps and the craft that the
defenses can throw at them, So Evan Mobley developing as
a secondary initiator for the offense and being that at
least valve and allowing Donovan and Darius to get easier
looks off ball at times. I think that is what
helps make their offense more multifaceted and gives them a
chance to compete against the Boston's, New York, Philly, Milwaukee's
of the world, because you know, the thing about them
in the playoffs is their defense is held up. Their
defense well, actually their offense and defense was better against
Boston than Dallas's. Was their defense with both guards and
only one big has been elite in the regular season
in the playoffs, right Like, so often people say you
need to have Jared Allen and Evan Mobley to make
Donovan and Darius work defensively. No, No, it worked really,
really damn well with both guards and just one of
the bigs. Even in the playoffs. They outscored Boston with
Darius and Donovan and Mobley on the court for the
playoff series. Right Like, the thing that hasn't translated, whether
it's one big, whether it's two bigs, whether it's two guards,
whether it's one guard, the offense has not translated to
the playoffs, And I think getting mobiley to the point
where he can help be that front court initiated of
the offense gives them the best chance to make what's
worked well in the regular season at times to something
that can be viable in the playoffs and give them
a chance to compete.
Speaker 2: Now does what needs to be done on Mobley's part?
And I do think this eventually ties on the question
of where you're at with the dual big setup for
him to reach that level. I think the obvious low
hanging through we saw a little bit of it when
he came back from injury is taking three pointers. He
was almost a two a game from there. Hit on
a nice clip didn't necessarily hold up in the playoffs,
But like to do what you're asking him to do.
It seems like one there needs to be more space
and he's going to be part of generating that space.
But too there's gonna need to be other things like
can he tighten up his handle and not just in
space but in traffic. But if you're looking at that
role or for him to actualize that ceiling, what's the
one thing that you'll be monitoring them most closely? About
his development, like to make that happen to him to
fulfill that role.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, if I can pick one thing, it's
it would be the handle, Like I want the handle
to improve because I think that would help, you know,
him be a more consistent initiator of the offense. I
think that would help him be a threat and be
able to put rim pressure on. My favorite stat is
Evan Mobley last year, despite missing you know, a good
chunk of the season with that surgery, he made more
threes last season than bam Anna Bios made in his
career and Zion Williams Williamson has made in their careers.
Like they don't get talked about in that way, right,
Like Bam, you know he hit some three with a
shorter line in feb competition and it's, oh my god,
is this is the year stretch five Bam? Right, And
we're we're putting kelll Way or here to to to
play the five and BAM's moving over to the four, right,
Like he's what four years five years older than Evan
Mobley and Mobiley's made more threes last season than Bam
has in his career. Like I would like to see
the volume go up right, you shot thirty seven percent
last year. I'd like to see that tick up to
three three attempts per game. I think that's where I
would feel comfortable, But I don't. I don't want to
see him taking more than that. What I want to
see is him, you know, being able to put that
room pressure on, being able to handle the ball, bringing
it up in transition and helping them up their pace.
Like that's the kind of stuff that can help unstick
the offense. And it like you don't hear Pelicans folks
talk about, well, like we need, you know, a stretch
five to work around Zion, right, because we have Herb
Jones out there who shoots like Isaac O Korro and
gets ignored at the exact same rate. And you know,
we we have Jonis who take one three a game,
although he's gone to Washington, Like you don't hear that.
But you don't hear that because Zion is able to
negate that spacing issue by his ability to create. So
I think I want to see that from Evan Mobley
more than anything else. And like, if I could, you know,
gift him with the one skill or one thing from
you know, the summer workout videos to have translated. It's
definitely that.
Speaker 2: I also wonder too with those two specifically, I actually
do think Pelican's fan well, I guess they want any
sort of five on the team right now. But I
do think that there was kind of a yeah they did.
Speaker 10: There was kind of when well, Carter JUNI you're not
on there.
Speaker 2: Sorry to get sidetracked, but with Zion and Bam, it's
they can score as a play finisher in such like
a physical way. That and even Zion on the ball,
like he's not your traditional big And I wonder if
Evan Mobley I think he's gotten better at that, but
like that was also a concern is about how he's
going to deal with contact and physicality. So even if
he as a play finisher felt like more of a
physical presence, I wonder if the discourse around him would
be different. I also think he probably just set like
the bar too high for himself where he was my
Defensive Player of the Year pick, not this past season obviously,
but the one before, and then just he sets the
bar so high through his first like year, and then
the Cavs are quote unquote honest accelerated timeline because of
the Donovan Mitchell trade. I do wonder how that's also
impacted how people view him.
Speaker 10: To Yeah, and you know, to give him some credit too.
I think they're on an accelerated timeline because of Evan Mobley, right,
Like they were a lottery team and drafting Evan Mobley
immediately made them a elite defense, right And once you
have that end of the floor figured out, you can
make a move for Donovan Mitchell right like. So, I
think you know, his growth has kind of helped accelerate
that timeline as well. So, but he's definitely a victim
of that to some extent. But you look at it
from a per thirty six possession kind of standpoint. His
averaging career highs and everything, right, like his minutes came
down just when he was on minute retires, but like points,
field goal percentage, three point percentage, you know, defensive metrics,
all that kind of stuff. Efficiency, It was all career highs.
I just think, you know, he's just got around out
his game and do things that he's already shown at
a higher frequency, right, Like he shot better from mid
range last year. I think that's one of the big
differentiations between he and bam Is. Bam Is that kind
of credible threat to shoot from the free throw line
at all times. You can run an offense and have
him as that hub at, you know, at the nail,
and you have to respect his jumper from that spot.
If Mobiley can do that, I think that opens up
a wide variety of options, and it makes easier to
have Alan in the dunker spot and run some actions
with the guards and whatnot. So I think what he
needs to do isn't something that he's never shown right,
like he's shown in sports. He'll hit those shots, you know,
I forget which team he hit the game winning mid
range shot against it. He's hit some big threes coming
down in the clutch in the fourth quarter and stuff
like that. He's just got to do it consistently and
at a higher volume.
Speaker 2: The I guess the two concerns I would have though,
is so Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland can play fantastic. They
work off the ball like defense need to respect them.
But we also kind of you know, you've talked about
it a couple of times about the concern about moving
Darius Garland off the ball too much to where it
sort of disinvolves him. And so is the opportunity going
to be there for Evan Mobley to explore like the
depths of like getting to that point with like him
as an individual ceiling of course, but then also if
you're trying to maximize his time alongside Jared Allen, like
is there going to be sort of enough reps to
go around there to It's not a matter of Donovan.
I want to make clear anyone listening. It's not a
matter of Dominovan Mitchell, Darius Garland can't. It's how much
do you want to invest in moving them away from
the ball to kind of help facilitate the optimal version
of Evan Mobley.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that's a really good question. And you know,
you also have the factor in the growth that Jared
Allen showed last year, right, like I thought, you know,
it is the best season of his career, and he
was passing like really well the short role and he
was someone that you could initiate offense through at times.
Like you know, it's it's a good problem to have,
but it is a problem to have at times. And
you know, I think what he's going to need to
do within that starting lineup is going to be different
than you know, over the course of the game. Like
I think, if he's taking three threes a game, I
want those threes to occur when Jared Allen is on
the court, right, Like, when Jared Allen is not on
the court, I want to see, you know, let's run
some more offense through him, right Like I think, you know, historically,
the funny thing to look at is when you look
at the two years worth of lineup data, Evan Mobley
and Donovan Mitchell as a pairing without Garland and Allen
does not work. Their net rating is you know, about
where the Brooklyn nets were last season. But him and
Darius work incredibly well. Donovan and Jared work incredibly well.
Darius and Jared did not work really well. So I
think that's a really interesting dynamic. But ultimately, like those
guys will play eighteen minutes together per game, that's typically
where you're at. You do still have kind of thirty
minutes to explore the space where it's going to be
one garden, it's going to be one big out there.
It will be interesting to see though, what happens in
in closing minutes, right And you know, maybe this is
one of the benefits of having Jared on a value contract, right,
Like that deal apparently is supposed to be like fifteen
sixteen percent of the cap once those cap numbers come in,
like fifteen sixteen percent, Like we're talking about max drus
money like R in terms of you know, percentage of
the cap. If you need to play them twenty eight
minutes in a game rather than you know, thirty four,
that is something that you can do and like you're
not kind of handcuffed to make those decisions. But I
think if we want to look at the best version
of what this CA's roster can be, it's maximizing those
minutes when you know all four of them are out
there together twenty two to twenty three.
Speaker 4: They did that.
Speaker 10: They were tremendous. You look at the last forty one
games of that season and Darius was getting twenty two
and eight, Mobiley was getting his eighteen and ten, Jared
was getting his fifteen and ten, Donovan was getting his
like twenty eight and four whatever he was getting. Right, Like,
all four of them were eating and they were playing
well alongside in one another. But I think making it
so that there's the buy into the system that the
minutes together are maximized, the minutes of hard are maximized
where it's not, as you know Stark of Okay, well,
what are these pairings like figuring out how to make
Donovan and MOBILEI work, figuring out how to get you know,
Darius and j back on the same page like they
were in the All Star season. Like, I think all
of that stuff is going to be kind of one
of those interesting things to track with his coaching staff.
Speaker 2: My final concern with it would be that there's a
chance Evan Mobley does all these things and the Cavs
play it perfectly to some extent, may not matter because
I'm not comparing him to this player, but we saw
it in Okasee and Josh Giddy was actually taking and
hitting threes, and defenses still didn't care because it was
never enough at a clip, so it was still a
It still made okayc thunder when he was on the
floor with some of these other guys a lot easier
to defend, and so I'm gonna be very interested to
track that dynamic. But my own answer to my own
concern has been you mentioned that first season they had
they were in the ninety six percentile of offensive efficiency
with all four of those guys on the court, and
I think three of their most their three top used
lineups all included a fifth member of the rotation that
was a below average shooter you would call them. It
was Icho Kuro at the time, Carris Lavert. I think
that might have been the Lamar steven Gie. I can't remember.
Speaker 10: Yeah, So that Lamar was the only one that it
didn't work, I.
Speaker 2: Believe, And so like that's what I continue to let
Johntres like, Okay, well, even if it's like like if
Evan Mobley, if that version Ember Mobley's hitting threes and defenses,
they're gonna have to respect him a little bit more
so they can play off and say, you know what,
we're fine with his three attempts per game and he
can make two of them and we're just not going
to care every time. But I point back to that
season where we just had this extended sample, I would
call it at full strength. It was worse circumstances when
you look at the supporting cast. So I almost don't
understand how this isn't going to work now if everybody's healthy.
So it's like I'm concerned, Like I have concerns, but
I'm like, well, just let's go look at the first season,
they had less experience and less talent like together, I
just so that's that's where I'm at.
Speaker 10: And that goes back to what I said before about
if you're wanting to build a contending team without a
consensus top ten player, where it's just inarguable that you
had this superstar Lebron James level talent, you don't bridge
that gap by trading all star level talent for role
players that just you know, fit an archetype, you know,
like a big wing. Like let's move Jared Allen for
Cam Johnson. Okay, well, like now you have a big wing,
but like you're getting worse from a talent perspective, right
Like or you know, as much as I love Brian Windhors,
like the fact that he is so adamant that Donn
and Mitchell can be the only ball handler on the
team and we got to run a helio centric offense
with spot up guys and one big around Donald Mitchell.
Like that never works. Like Dallas learned that lesson and
got Kyrie for Luca, right, Like you know, like that
like Donovan Mitchell playing Russell Westbrook Martyr ball is not
going to bridge the gap, right, like this is not
what needs to be done here, or like we have
to get all star level talent. We need to maximize
all of this talent. I don't think Donovan's as good
of a playmaker as Russ was, and it didn't work
with Russ, right, Like U, I share some of your concerns.
For for sure, I think if Mobley is, you know,
taking three threes a game at the same percent you
did last year, you know, thirty seven percent, I agree
with you. I don't think people are like sprinting out
to the three point line to go guard him, But
I think him being a viable threat there is at
least important because if he's out there and he gets
the ball and you're completely sagging off of him, all right,
I'm just going to do a little dribble hand off
to to you know, Garland or Mitchell. I'm going to
take this shot myself and I'll convert some of these.
But I think that the handle, that's where it becomes
so important, because if you're giving a seven foot or
or that's you know, added strength that finishes well historically
around the rim, that has a good floater, good touch
from you know, that mid range. If you're giving him
a head start and you're flat footed at defender sitting
in the paint, you are going to get exposed.
Speaker 11: You are not.
Speaker 10: You know, that's why people come out at Yannest. They
don't want to give him that running start, even though
he can't shoot from three right. So that's why I
think that that is so important. And you know, I
think guys that shoot well but at a low volume,
I think that's more of a concern at the perimeter
than it is for a power forward or a center right. Like,
I think that's just a different equation, and that's where
we run into someone like Isaac o Koro, who shot
thirty nine percent from three, but because the volume isn't there,
guys are going to leave him wide open. I think
he took two threes with the defender within six feet
last year. And you know, to go back to the
Pelicans example, exact same thing happened to Herb Jones. I
think he shot forty percent but did not have a
sing contested three in the playoffs because people are like, well,
if you're going to shoot forty percent but you're taking three,
three is like worst case scenario hit one or two
here like we can live with that in order to
pack the pain and take away you know, more consistent
threats like a Zion Williamson.
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting, I would say definitely when he's
at the five like, I don't think it matters. I
still think we're at the point where with it's from
the four spot. I still think you could see some
of the like similar ill.
Speaker 10: Effects there of that, Oh for sure, for sure. I
just think you know, you can mitigate some of that
by by improving the handle. It would be my argument.
Speaker 2: But when you look at someone like Klay Thompson, what
do you make of his overall fit, Like do you
think this signals maybe a shift of what some of
the stuff the MAVs are going to do offensively? Do
you even do at least trust that he'll buy into
a more limited role, Because if you go back to
what was happening in Golden State, like he had a
pretty shitty shot selection towards the end of his time there.
I felt like he was struggling to just adapt to
his new role, the role they wanted him to play.
Is that just easier by virtue of the ball dominance
in Dallas from Luka and Kyrie or just to being
a new environ Just what do you sort of make
of that fit specifically.
Speaker 12: Well, I think that the Mavericks needed another guy who
could actively dribble. Dante Exum filled the role for parts
of the year, but I just get the sense that
Jason Kidd doesn't trust him. Clay Thompson can handle the
ball and can pass the ball, and you know, there's
Jared Duban of last Night in Basketball put together a
really good compilation of Clay's passing to Golden State bigs.
And with all due respect to Golden State bigs, they're
not Derek c. Lively. So I can't wait to see
him in some pick and roll action and doing some
different things. I think, you know, I think the Mavericks
are trying to do things that will get the ball
out of Luca's hands in different playmaker's hands to where
he just doesn't need to have a thirty six percent
usage rate, to where he can have a thirty two
percent usage rate. And like we're talking like three possessions
a game, We're not talking about that much stuff. But
I think that Clay will find a way to get
his shots. One of the things that is woefully misunderstood
about Luca from people who think he is a ballhog,
don't They don't get that he wants to make the pass.
He loves the highlight pass way more than the circus shot.
And right now, if you're just talking about the Mavericks
in a broad situation of Clay's starting with Kyrie Irving,
PJ Washington, Luka, Doncic, Derek Lively, the guy you have
to sag off on right now is PJ. Washington, who
ended up punishing the Lahoma City Thunder. And so it's
like that's and then they've only added more shooting here.
So it's like on paper, and particularly in a regular
season game where teams aren't really scouting things to the nails,
the Mavericks are gonna have the ability to score the
ball a lot of different ways. And so I think
Clay's shots will be there. It wouldn't shock me if
he waxes and wanes. I mean, he's played a lot
the last two years. I think the average fan doesn't
really understand that he came back from that two year
break injury break. It ended up playing quite a lot
of basketball. So he'll still play a lot this year.
He'll have his opportunities. I'm a little I'm a little
worried about role stuff, but not because he's going to
be a fourth banana, because I think he kind of
already was. It's more of a how his kid work
with him, because I don't think he responded Klay Thompson
was responding to Kerr anymore, and I'm curious to see
how that will work out.
Speaker 2: I also do think that just being in like a
new environment and having to be the new guy probably
helps him where I've mentioned this before on this podcast anyway,
that seeing Draymond Green and Steph Curry not really shrinking
importance in Golden State. When you came up with those
guys won four titles with those guys, it was probably
just like tougher to stomach and reconcile. So I feel
like it'll be smoother. The one thing I would be
curious though, and this isn't an insult to him. He's older,
he's had those two major injuries. He's just not even
close to what he was defensively, and so if we
assume that he's going to start and at least play
like starter level minutes or close to it, do you
think when he's playing with Kyrie and Luca that maps
have enough defensively to to insulate him and to optimize
that line.
Speaker 12: No, no, okay, And that's where the kind of mad
scientist element of a regular season comes into play, where
we see what kid tries. I think if you you
bank in for both Luca and Kyrie, both of them
missing fifteen games each, I think we'll see a lot
of lineups where Klay Thompson is like the second best
scorer on the floor, which does allow Dallas to play
a Naji Marshall, a Clinton Grimes and really try to
basically patchworks the defense together. I do think they're gonna
have to, you know, they're just gonna have to ask
Clay to guard more. And I'm gonna be curious to
see how you know, he really hasn't shown it the
last two years, but I'm the words rose not very
good and there's elements of for me if the situation
is different, and are the and are the Mavericks able
to cover different things with him schematically? I'm I'm curious,
Like he's not the he's not the defender that made
him one of the seventy five best players ever, Like
that's that's something that Mavericks fans are gonna have to
come with. But one thing is true. He's still six
to seven. And if you're putting out a line where
Kyrie is the smallest guy, or even like say you
exchange Kyrie with you know, Grimes for periods like the
Max have a big.
Speaker 2: Team, they're huge.
Speaker 12: There's something to be said just for guys taking up space. Yeah,
you know, it's it's that's not obviously the NBA level defense,
but against you know, the twenty of the thirty NBA teams.
You can sometimes get away with things like that.
Speaker 2: But asking everyone what their biggest storyline is that they're
tracking for the specific team but for the Nuggets. And
I would love it if you have a different like
opinion on this, but we're gonna talk about either way.
Is it just like the development of the three core
youngsters at this point is particularly viewed against the backdrop
of KCP leaving.
Speaker 13: So I actually think that might be third for me.
So so it's really important and I understand and this
is probably a semantic answer, but Number one.
Speaker 14: To me is Jamal Murray.
Speaker 13: Even last year Denver had was winning at a sixty
two win pace when Yokichen Murray played. The truth is,
we just don't know how many games he's going to miss.
He missed twenty three last year, no matter, Denver won
fifty seven games, a franchise record, and their second best
player missed twenty three games. So I look at this
and I go, I think Denver is actually better than
what we all were very high on him.
Speaker 5: I think we were appropriately high on them last year.
Speaker 13: You get an injury to your second best player, he
misses a ton of time and the team runs out
of gas and they end up coming up short in
the playoffs. But I think that on March tenth, out
of the All Star break, they're on a big win streak.
I was like, they are the favorite to win the title,
and they might have another sixteen and four run in them.
They were playing at that level. To me, all these
other things are important margins and kind of big margins.
But Jamal Murray's health, motivation, conditioning, and you know, consistency,
to me, are by far more important than all the
other variables for Denver. So to me, that's number one.
And to be honest with you, I have no idea
what to expect from Jamal. Is he going to play.
He's always been bad in October and November? Is he
going to be good this year in ways that are meaningful?
And this is like, look, his stock is at an
all time low, and I have to think that he
hears all the noise. He also ended last year, if
you recall, by throwing a heat pack onto the floor.
I think his reputation not only in how he plays,
but I think also to some extent, his character is
in question in ways that I hope and I would
expect him to say, Okay, I need to remind people
this year because at the moment, there's valid arguments that
I am the guy the haters think I am and
not who I think I am.
Speaker 2: He's like might be just one of the players that
have explored the most extreme peaks and valleys and this
past like year, eighteen months, whatever.
Speaker 6: It might be a perfect example.
Speaker 2: Where I was being asked to go on podcasts radio
shows last year after they won the title. Is Jamal
Murray a top fifteen player?
Speaker 4: Was the question?
Speaker 2: And now it's like, oh, man, like, should the Nuggets
even pain his guy?
Speaker 13: It's like I think had him seventeenth last year in
the player rink, like really really high all, you know,
coming off of that incredible Finals, I'm so curious to
see where ESPN has them this year. I'm guessing it's
like fortieth somewhere somewhere around there. And it's crazy, right,
like that you should he should be ascending as a player,
not dropping that far.
Speaker 2: So looking at this actual team and what may play
out on the court and this fourthcoming season, what is
just the biggest storyline that you personally are going to
be monitoring throughout the year.
Speaker 15: Yeah, so this one's pretty obvious. It's Kaid. How how
good does Caid look with the roster more suited to
his talents? Right, because we again we've complained about it,
and even through all the complaining, he was a lot
better last year. He was a twenty four to five
and seven and a half guy. He shot forty thirty nine,
like and a half percent from three after the All
Star break, Like.
Speaker 2: Those are extra faun you'd love to see it.
Speaker 15: Those were very good numbers and they coincided with just
like adding Simone Fantechio and not much else and like,
uh getting rid of the Killian Hayeses and Isaiah Livers's
of the team who were just like not real NBA players, right,
And so with less of a phone booth, with better
talent around him, with other guys who might be able
to make some shots around him, could he be like
a twenty six, five and nine guy like that, that's
kind of an All Star Like Tyrese Maxey was an
All Star last year and he was a twenty six,
four and six guy, right, And so's like, you know,
if kid can get to that level of production and
the team can find some level of success on the court,
some amount of wins, not lose twenty five plus games
in a row, it's like you have a narrative around
like the team building something Kad being a large part
of that, and him being acknowledged kind of in the media,
in the national media and like bya his peers as
like a guy who's like willing, who's been able to
do like the things for them.
Speaker 2: Why do you think and you just said something made
me think of it. Why do you think that there
seems to be so much division over him?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 5: Because?
Speaker 2: Okay, so we have this track record of injuries and
then last year everyone kind of latched on to the
turnover issue, which got better. And but like if you
weren't watching, And I guess this amounts to me being
condescending if you weren't, I hate playing if you weren't
watching the Pistons car But it seems like even with
players who are more established, something might happen in the
first like ten to fifteen games quarter of the season,
and like that's the storyline that defines the rest of
their year, almost regardless of what is actually happening. What
do you think makes him such a divisive figure in
the I guess it's the would you build around this
player discourse? Basically, Yeah.
Speaker 15: I think it's the fact that nothing about him is
really like he doesn't stand out in any like one
area of the game, right, He's not. He's a really
good passer, he's he made he's made himself more of
a shooter over the last season, but before that he
was inefficient and he turned the bowl over a lot,
didn't really get to the rim, never shot any free throws,
and so again, like if you were only turning the
Pistons on, like during the twenty eight game losing streak,
which I think was still like before Christmas, it's like, okay,
like this team's going nowhere. This guy's like not able
to elevate them, and so it's like we can kind
of write them off. But I think the team was
so bad last year. There were just so many non
functional NBA players around him, and the skill set that
he has was just like not because he's not a
guy who's going to go out and score forty, it's
like because he's a guy who wants to kind of
play slower and kind of dissect defenses. I think that
like he just he wasn't able to leave the team
to wins, and people just kind of took that in
a poor way as a poor reflection of himself. Like
you look at like Paul Benchero was like equally as
inefficient but like slightly more product but his team was
winning and he got a lot of credit for that.
He gets a lot of kudos for that. I don't,
And I think I think team's success will lead to
people viewing kid in a more favorable light, if that
makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, what does the next frontier for him look?
Like you mentioned sort of the rim stuff and I'd
mentioned in the notes, and sometimes feel like he might
have that extra gear, like let's flip the dial and
get a little bit faster rather than you know, relying
on I don't know, hesitations are like bailing out too
early on his drives, and he does still maybe the
lower body injuries have impacted it, but like you've seen
him turn corner sometimes and like get by people, and
if he did that more consistently, is that a spacing thing,
maybe now it'll be better around him he could get
there or is it just something else entirely that you're
looking at for his development.
Speaker 15: Now I'm looking at rim finishing, but I'm looking at
him adding strength.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 15: The thing that really stood out to me last season
was as he as he got stronger and as he
got better using his making, using his body to carve
out space, you could really see that. There were times
where you were reminded like, oh, yeah, he's sixty six
and like he can extension finish around Biggs or if
he if he gets into the paint with with with
no help, like he can finish over and around guys.
It's still below the rim, right, but he can still
do that. Like stylistically, he does still love those mid
range jumpers and he's he's very good at them, but
you do wish some of those were like paint touches
and kickouts. I wish some of those were like ten
foot floaters instead of fifteen foot like pump fake pump,
fake pump, fake shot. But I do think that he
will always kind of be who he is. He'll always
be a change of pace operator. That's how he wants
to play. But like Dan, you watch Jalen Brunson, right,
Like Jalen Brunson would just like pick people apart from
like inside twelve feet and like, as long as you
get into the paint and pressure the defense, like you
can figure stuff out from there. I think kid like
absolutely has the potential to do that, and that will
be the thing I'm looking for him to do this season.
Speaker 2: You imagine someone with his size and Jalen Brunson's like footwork,
that's a nasty basketball player.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 15: Well the other thing is too, Like as the roster
gets better, Like we talk about the spacing being something
good for him, obviously, but with the spacing being better
and with his teammates being able to hit more shots,
he'll he'll be able to distribute a lot more. And
I think his distribution is something that doesn't get enough
play because his teammates like don't hit enough shots.
Speaker 2: Right, He's a guy, he's a really really good passer,
and maybe something like he just the ability to see things.
And so I am very anxious to see not anxious,
excited to see what he could do with what I
assume will be better spacing. But Brant, what's the single
biggest storyline you're going to be tracking for the team
this season?
Speaker 10: I mean, isn't that a hard question?
Speaker 5: Though?
Speaker 11: Like so my the one I've kind of trotted out
a lot and we've talked about is the emergence of
or lack of, like a second star guy to lighten
the load on Steph as Ganners his age thirty six season,
and just looking at the roster, actually I should I
should couch this in having watched the preseason, there are
a lot of takeaways I think that are interesting and
kind of change a lot of what I thought prior
to the preseason. That's a stupid position to take because
the preseason doesn't matter, but the team is pretty different.
I still think though, sort of the you can't not
say it's this angle is who's going to be that guy?
And it's like, well, because Clay, no, Clay really wasn't
last year and he's gone obviously, but it's like, you know,
and you're never going to get a Durant caliber second
guy again, because that's just, you know, just a total
you know, all the planets aligned for that one. But
someone to someone who emerges, whether that's a young guy
that takes a step forward or someone that they may
try to trade for, And we can talk about how
close or not close some of those efforts were.
Speaker 10: But I think that's it.
Speaker 4: I think that's it.
Speaker 11: And it does that that angle does kind of bleed
into some other ones that are interesting to me that
we can discuss. But I just feel like you can't
pretend like it's something other than that. You could say
like Steph Curry's health, but it's like, well, then that's
true of the best player on every team you're going
to do a lookhead for.
Speaker 2: And he's not on the Jowell and Bead level anymore.
Where it's that's the day to day storyline. So it's
no different.
Speaker 11: It's more like, I mean, there is, it is a
little different, I guess in that like age thirty six
season for a guard is like the expectations should be
like massive drop off.
Speaker 4: The fact that it's been.
Speaker 11: Really gradual over the last three to five years. Is
you know that can't be the like the focal point.
And if it is, it's like a short conversation because
it's like, well, he'll either get a little bit worse
or a lot worse and then that's okay. So then
what like that's not really you know that that I
guess underscores the importance of somebody else emerging as like
a high usage you know, shot creator, playmaker score.
Speaker 2: I don't know if this would be like the actual
biggest storyline, but this player does feel like he will
shape what is going to be the biggest storyline or
how they approach the season. That is Jonathan Kaminga and
much of the preseason, the lead like trading camp in
the lead up to the regular season, has been spent
just everyone openly wondering or opplying about which position he
needs to play? Is it the three or the four?
Can he play the three on this team? Should they
have had a stretch big on this team if they
wanted him to play the three? Where do you sort
of land on that entire overarching discussion.
Speaker 11: Specifically like what position he should play?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well, well, I mean, or what position I mean, in event,
let's say there is a stretch big on this team,
do you think that he can then play the three
or do you view him more strictly as a four.
Speaker 11: So personally, I don't, I know that that distinction has
been drawn really clearly. Like Kaminga thinks he's a three,
I think he's basically said that explicitly.
Speaker 10: Made the Warriors think he's a four.
Speaker 11: That has definitely been said explicitly, And the lineup, the
data from last year, it's like over ninety percent of
his minutes where he was designated as the four, So
there is a disconnect there. In my opinion, I don't
think it matters that much. I think the three in
the four are kind of like whatever. Now it's different
on this team because whether Draymond Green is the four
or the five makes a huge difference and sort of
how the lineups look. So if Draymond is the four
and you're playing him with a center, then yah, Kuminga
is a three. I just think like his his skill
set kind of works either way, and like the things
he's good at and not good at don't really change
depending on which of the forward positions he's occupying. To me,
I think the reason that question is interesting and kind
of tricky to figure out is what it means for
the rest of the lineup, which is kind of what
you're getting at, I think, so, like, I guess my
answer would be if if Kuminga is going to shoot
as with as little hesitation from three as he has
in the preseason, especially on just catch and shoot stuff,
then I think you get a you can It's a
lot easier for me to imagine getting away with him
as a three without a stretch center, just because that,
you know, it's like, oh, we need to accommodate him
with spacing at other positions to make that work. It's like, well,
if he's providing the spacing by being like a pretty
high volume threat on the catch, then I think that
mitigates some.
Speaker 4: Of that issue.
Speaker 11: So, like, I know, it's almost too hard to talk
about it in terms of just like what position is
he or what should he play, because you have to
just rejigger so many different things in the rest of
the lineup potentially, and then ultimately again it may not
matter because if he's going to shoot a bunch of threes,
then I think that just opens up your options a
little bit more which I think, as we'll talk about
that is almost a problem with this roster because there
are too many options. There's too many guys that need
to play or that should play, and it just makes
all the lineup decisions hard.
Speaker 2: And I know he's been getting him up in preseason,
he's been hitting them. I'd just be curious if he's
taking them, how long does it take for defenses to
change the way that they're gonna guard him, Because even
if he's shooting let's say forty five percent on three
to four catch and shoot three point attempts per game, Okay,
if that's not getting defenses to come out to him,
that makes life harder on everybody else, which I guess
gets into the Draymond Green and are they playing him
with tjd or Kavan Luniar It doesn't really matter. And
to me as of right now, I guess I'll phrase
it this way. When I look at this roster, it
feels like the best way to optimize it in general
with what KAMINGA does and doesn't do versus the personnel
that they have, would be that Draymond at the five
has to become more of a staple, which is something
I know Draymond doesn't like I know the Warriors haven't
liked it, and I understand especially now as he gets
older and kind of the riggers that are associated with it.
So I'm just curious as like, is that is that
what's gonna become a potential default? Or we saw them
I think it was on was it Wednesday night? They
rolled out the jumbo lineup? Didn't they have Wiggins was
based the two with Kminga starting at the three. Uh,
It's like, you see, I guess you see a pathway
to this setup working where I don't need to get
caught up in the positions of it all, but you
see a pathway to them being able to play Kaminga,
Draymond and a big. And then if you do see that,
do you actually see Okay, can you also add Andrew
Wiggins plausibly into that fold?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 11: I think that's the reason they tried that. Look the
other night, you know they've done there have been different
starting lineups and different rotations in each preseason game so far,
and that is just because the coaches have is trying
to figure out, like what do we do with all
these guys that need to saw?
Speaker 2: Do you get mad at all about that where they're changed.
I've seen a lot of fans get annoyed by like
the lineups that are being run out there. And I
guess if this spills into the season and it's not working, okay, sure,
but if you're not gonna try it now, would you
prefer that they try it when the games matter?
Speaker 6: I will not mad at all.
Speaker 11: I think I think it's the only way. It's the
most logical way to approach the preseason because like they
just don't know, they can't know.
Speaker 10: They added three guys.
Speaker 11: That are theoretically rotation players. They've got all these young guys,
not all, they've got several young guys that you know,
need to get looks. And so it's just like it
would be weirder to me if they had gone with
the starting five for all of the same one for
all the preseason games and just like decided that that
was the look, because.
Speaker 6: I don't think they know that yet.
Speaker 11: So the small ball thing with Draymond at center, you know,
if you'd ask me a month ago, and I wrote
about this, and I think we probably talked about it,
like that makes the most sense to me. Whether he
likes it or not, Whether the Warriors are comfortable using
it as like a first option as opposed to a,
oh shit, we're down two to one in a playoff series.
Speaker 10: We got to, you know, go to.
Speaker 11: The death lineup or whatever, just because that's how you
get Kaminga and Wiggins on the floor together. That's how
you get more athletic. That and their best two best
high usage lineups last year were involving Green at center
and Kaminga and Wiggins. The difference was is that Pajemski
or Klay Thompson at the two and Steph obviously is
the one. So like, those were their best lineups in
terms of units that played over three hundred possessions, which
like that's not a lot, but that's the biggest samples
they had of any five man units. So I was
on board with That's that's the way you go. You
got to start the season that way because your margin
for aerra is smaller, your superstar talent is diminished. You
can't like hold it in reserve. You you know, if
you want to make the playoffs, you're gonna need to
start with your best weapons. Now though, because of the
style they're apparently going to play, which is shoot a
billion threes and move the ball a ton. I think
you could get away with more quote unquote conventional looks
where Draymond is a four and it's probably Jackson Davis
at the five, I would guess over Cavon Looney just
because I just think Jackson Davis brings more athleticism, shop
blocking like that kind of stuff, more dynamic play, and
Looney can handle being benched, I think more so than
a lot of the other guys. But I'm more open to, Okay,
maybe we do have like a real center out there
and just see if we get enough shooting from guys
that we probably in the past would not have counted
on getting enough shooting from.
Speaker 2: I do think most people are going to focus on
coming to shooting as kind of the arena where they
want to see him improve the most or will track
most closely with another area of his development, though that
you're going to be monitoring this season.
Speaker 11: Defensive awareness. That that has stood out immediately to me
in the preseason. It's been an issue all along where
you know he'll lose It's all the basics, like he'll
lose track of his guy, he'll give up open threes
at the wrong times, he won't rotate over. There are
just long stretches where he's not mentally engaged to the
level that he would need to be on defense, And
I think that's why they like to use him against
more dangerous on ball threats, because it allows him to
just be focused on more of a singular task as
opposed to processing all the other stuff that's going on.
Speaker 6: We're're in help position.
Speaker 11: But that's a big one because with a guy like him,
who can just the way he moves is you know,
he's an a plus athlete even among NBA players. I've said,
you know, it's it's obvious for him to be a
liability a lot of the time. On defense is kind
of inexcusable because it is focus. It is like just
understanding what the scheme is and like who you can
and can't leave, and like that kind of stuff. So
the shooting, honestly, as a catch and shoot guy, I
think he's gonna be fine. Like it's I don't know
if you're going to get a lot of pull up threes,
but I don't know that you need those. It's really
now to me, the defense is the biggest part of
it because it's just not as good as it should be,
I think, in my opinion, I think I'm.
Speaker 2: Curious to see what if his driving game can evolve
to maybe include more facilitation out of it to where
we know he's not the most adept passer, but when
you're talking about kind of kicking or like just these
dump offs when you're on the move, yeah they could
be harder. But the way that he handled the ball
on draws for a lot of last year I thought
was a lot better. When you go back to like
even the previous seasons, the handlefelt tighter or crisper. Do
you see that level of decision making in him? And
then also how much is that then potentially impacted by
this base thing that's that's around him in the front
court you're running.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I don't know that he's I would be really
surprised if he was ever, you know, the doing a
guy that in running a pick and roll on the
strong side would make the like one arm sling pass
to the weak side corner, like the Luca pass. Like
that's just I don't see that for him. I do
think he's sort of gonna be and has shown signs
that he already is like more of a serviceable single
read passer where it's like he gets downhill, the help comes,
he don't, he lays it down or he dumps it
off to the center for a dunk, like he can
make that pass, and he can, I think, make like
the one read to the strong side corner if the
help comes off of there. Beyond that, I think I
think he's I'd be surprised if he became like a
high level passer. And I think part of that too
is just like the guy can just finish everything, So
I think he's more wired to just be like I
would just love to get some contact here and try
to finish or I want to try to dunk this
like that, which is probably okay because that plays much
more to his strengths. I think he should be hyper aggressive,
like trying to seek contact when he's driving.
Speaker 2: Aside from the Alpern, Shangoun and Jail and Green just futures.
What is the You know, I dictate too much of
how these podcasts go. So what's the biggest storyline that
you're looking at following tracking as we head into this season?
Speaker 16: So I was gonna say Jalen, but but I guess
if I can't pick Jalen, I want to see a
man like, I really like a man.
Speaker 4: Is like sneaky like.
Speaker 16: I have him tied with Shangun as most intriguing prospect
on this team right like he might he may have
the highest upside in this team alongside Shangun.
Speaker 1: Like.
Speaker 16: He is just so unique and so multi dimensional and like,
obviously the weaknesses are there, but because the strengths are
so strong. He is a great finisher, He's an uber athlete.
He is uh already very strong to defensive player. I
could see him Dan. I know this is crazy. I
know this is like a serious NBA podcast. I could
see him challenging for All defensive second team next year.
That's how good he is.
Speaker 2: If he is the playing time under his belt. I
don't think that's wild at all, just based off what
we've seen from him.
Speaker 16: Yeah, he's he's crazy. I've never seen a rookie. I mean,
obviously I cover the Rockets, my scope is a little
bit limited, but like, I've never seen a rookie that
good defensively, but particularly a wing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Wemby is probably the best defensive rookie I've ever
seen since Tim Duncan at least. And I wasn't really
I was too young when he was a rookie, but
as a wing. Yeah, I mean even if you look
at some of the.
Speaker 16: Players Simmons, right, like Ben Simmons like that, that's like
the last one I could think of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's a good point. So I mean i'd
be curious. I think I don't think voters would give
it to a sophomore who is at Wemby, But I
do think that he could be on the level of
just like he will be in the conversation, because he's
that dominant defensively and the tools that he has, like
it's the counting stats, it'll be the advance met and
then just like you watched the eye test, and he
is dominant on the defensive end.
Speaker 16: Right, and so like that, that's that's who I want
to watch because you know what, Funny enough, he's the
exact same age as these guys as Jalen and shanng Goon.
Like he was drafted last year. He was just an
older rookie. That's why it sneaks up on you. But
he's kind of in that age twenty two season too, right,
So if you're gonna see a leap naturally, like you
may see one from him too, So I kind of
group all those three guys together in terms of like hmm,
like like let's see what what what level can they
take it to?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 16: What's their next logical extension? And obviously everyone's gonna be
looking at the jump shot. I think the jump shot
just okay, Like this sounds bad, I'm I tend to believe,
like my gut instinct put a gun to my head,
that just may be broken, right like that, that just
may be like one of the like the base that
you're starting from such a low baseline that you just
make you shouldn't bank developmentally on that becoming a thing, right.
I think what I'm more interested in seeing is can
he become like his ceiling as a player, is that
higher than Alpera and shan Guns And if it is, okay,
now I gotta make a decision, right because I don't
think those two can co exist because of the limited
jump shot.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and that's I mean, let's let's get into
that because that's been a big topic. And we saw
men Thompson like kind of hit his sweet spot offensively
without Alpa and Shangun, and because he's doing a lot
of the off ball work and so in theory, you
look at you know, Alman Thompson, not if he doesn't
have the ball as much, like okay, then why can't
if it with Alprin Shangun you mentioned the jumper stuff,
And so that's where it does get super awkward because
with Alman Thompson's development, if you need to find out
if he's more important to you than Shangun, don't you
need to get to a point where he has more
on ball reps. And I know this isn't like, let
me be clear, I know the Rockets weren't a heavy
pick and roll team, but he's averaging under three pick
and rolls per thirty six minutes last year. That's like
you need to see more. And even just like the drives,
those were pretty low per thirty six minutes. So how
do you because you have Shangun and also some of
these other guys, like how do you go about like
something like is are you just gonna have to make
some tough calls or there are gonna be things that
fall by the wayside? Does it really is some of
this like Alpern Shang Gun might have to adapt or
you just get to a point where you're like really
rigidly staggering them, because I do think if you need
to figure out how good a man is gonna be,
and like if you also want him to develop, I'm
with you on the jumper, Like, it'd be nice if
he gets it. But it's almost like, well, if he
could start hitting more of those floaters like that, we
saw some of those from him, with those going at
a higher clip, and he's taking them at a higher frequency.
That's at least a different level to his offensive game.
But he needs the reps to have that, and you're
not I would assume you're not gonna have that in
the core core lineups because of Alpern, Shangun and some
of these other guys, And so can you get to that,
like enough of that with the secondary units?
Speaker 16: Yeah, I mean it's almost a credit to him that
he was he was sufficient as he was playing that
it wasn't even a secondary he was playing a tertiary where.
Speaker 4: He's playing off the ball. He was playing like andre
I Guodala like yeah, or.
Speaker 2: Like even Aaron Gordon esque at points, like kind of
floating around the dunker spot.
Speaker 16: Are right, Well, it was like and he he was
still effective, which is like that that's why he's so impressive, right, Like,
like the role he was cast in, you didn't expect
anything from him, and he was still what the hell?
Speaker 4: Like what is this?
Speaker 5: Right like?
Speaker 16: And like it's not that no one didn't think he
was talented, it's that we we thought the Jumper was
gonna be such a big thing, right, it was gonna
be such a like he's a guard who can't shoot, right,
so you like that's really hard to adapt to in
the NBA. But he was still effective. He was still positive.
As a rookie guard who can't shoot threes, that's really impressive.
So yeah, I mean, I don't know how you do it.
I'm not I'm not gonna lie. I don't have an
answer for you, because that guard, that guard rotation is
really really I mean, you got Van Vliet, you got Green,
you got Whitmore.
Speaker 2: Read shepperd, you.
Speaker 16: Got Sheppard now, and Sheppard's not even gonna be able
to play, to be honest, Like, he's probably not gonna
be able to play this first year and maybe unless
guys get hurt. I see him being a G league
guy and that's not a big that's not really a
big deal. Like More was the League guy until guys
got hurt, right, But that's just the state of play
when you look at like, like, how how do you
can You're gonna have a fifteen man rotation? You can't
do that right?
Speaker 2: Right? That is so? I mean I would say with
Amen specifically devotes on him, like to wrap it up.
I wonder if they can just I feel like not
if they can, they can I think the best way
he might be okay, like the Jabbari minutes without Shangun
where he's your five, and like that's when a men
needs to be playing most and you get him the
on ball reps because you don't have to deal with
not occupying the same space, but some of the floor
spacing issues. You could surround those two with shooters. I mean,
can more qualify that would? Honestly, I was gonna float,
like make sure Reed shepherds in those lineups because of
his threat level off the ball. But you're talking about
whether he would struggle to get minutes six years into
these look aheads. It's clear that I dictate too much
of how these podcasts go. So I've been asking everyone
what is the biggest storyline for this team? The Pacers
in this case, that you will either that you'll be
tracking either entering the season or throughout the entire season.
Speaker 17: I mean, I think to an extent, it's the same
storyline that's been the storyline at training camp for them
the last two years. I remember talked about like that's
that's the tale as all as time, Dan Now, I
think they talked about two years ago, like we need
to address defense and togetherness. They talked about last year,
you know, some of their requisites for people earning playing
time because they had so much competition at camp, was
going to be, you know, defense and unselfishness. It's gonna
be what's it going to take for them to improve
on the defensive end, and what's a realistic expectation. I
think that's gonna be the overarching thing this year, because,
like we said, I think that they showed enough proof
of concept, regardless of what the injuries were in the playoffs,
to think that they can still be a very good
regular season team. The offensive rating held up in the playoffs.
A outscore opponents in each round of the playoffs when
pascalen Tyres were on the floor, including against Boston who
were not nearly as banged up obviously as the Bucks
and the Knicks were There's lots of little things that
you can point to there, But if they're gonna maintain
the success that they had last year, I do think
that they need to have a little bit more reliable
of a defense, because that's what stood out in games.
You know, the losses that they had to Boston. Obviously,
you know those were somewhat the witching hour of things
that you can't really completely explain that went wrong. But
also one team had a defensive foundation they could rely on.
One team was more defensively versatile, and it wasn't the
Pacers in those games. So that's the main thing that
they need to address. And I think that's going to
be the main storyline they were going to be watching
all season.
Speaker 2: What are sort of the one or two elements that
would go into this team sustaining a league average or
better defense? Then yeah, I.
Speaker 17: Mean I think I had this tagline last year where
I said, the defense doesn't need to be good, it
doesn't even need to be mediocre. It merely needs to
be bad, and it's too often terrible. And that took
place in a game when they had one of their
one one fifty one fifty You know duels with the
Atlanta Hawks, and I later issued a retraction because they
did show some progress and they did make some adjustments
to the scheme as the year went on. And that's
why I told people. I just recently got asked the
mail back question by somebody said, you know, what would
it take to make this defense great?
Speaker 18: That's too ofty.
Speaker 19: Have an expectation.
Speaker 17: You need to get in the range of like bad
ranging to men, because I will say that I think
that this coaching staff, like when you look at it,
I mean, I'll ask you if you looked at this
the personnel on the roster, do you think that the
Pacers have top ten offensive talent just based on take
the personnel.
Speaker 2: I mean, I might just be colored by what I
know Tyre's Haliburton is, but I guess in a vacuum
you probably wouldn't look at especially heading into last season
and being like oh nemhard no siakam So yeah, I
don't think you look at the roster like, oh, that's
for sure top ten offense team.
Speaker 17: Yeah, you want to think that that's going to be
the number one offense in the playoffs. I out and again,
like some of that had to do with injuries, but
not completely because let's face it, like Giannis is a
big deal defensively, but Dame being out kind of helped
the Bucks defense then make them a better team. But
defensively they were better when when Dame wasn't playing. So
I think that they over you know, they get more
out of their personnel offensively, and I've told people this
many times. I think they're getting about what should be
expected defensively unless you look at a few specific things.
So I think last year they ranked thirtieth and closeouts
for one hundred posessions. And in part that's because they
started the year really being somewhat dogmatic with the guard
your yard scheme. They were going to do all pick
and rolls two versus two. As the year went on,
they were willing to relax that they weren't trying to,
you know, use body as a primary against Giannis ante Tokunpo.
They were building a three player wall. Some of what
you saw the Lakers in the finals of the nd
season tournament, where they scored eighty six points in the
paint while the Pacers you know, quote unquote held them
to two of thirteen shooting from three. There were changes
to that specifically in the playoffs where it's like, okay,
now we're seeing Siakam, you know, even helping off of
the ball side corner. He's flooding clear strong side, off
of Achua, off of Josh Hart in ways that they
weren't necessarily as adaptable with earlier in the season. So
I would expect some changes there, but I don't think
that the like, no matter what this coaching staff does
with the scheme, I don't think that's necessarily going to
significantly move the needle because, to be honest, while it
probably wasn't what I would have done at the beginning
of the season, they try to pull our opposite scheme
the prior year. In both years they resulted in a
bottom ten defensive outcome, including after they acquired Siakham. They
still ranked around twenty second after that. So I would
look at, you know, can Tyres come back and be
a little bit more physical. Can he take a bump
and still potentially get over a screen, because he did
show that a little bit. You know, they don't want
to give up switches with him, so they use a
lot of show coverage and he got a little bit
better at holding the line on that maybe even you know,
diverting the ball handler a little bit. So can he
show a little bit more physicality and not get overpowered?
Is there ways that you could potentially use Miles as
more of, you know, a weak side rim protector rather
than a ball side anchor just dialing up their overall attentiveness.
That's something that I like to point out with regard
to Benedict Matheren, because you can dial up energy and effort,
I'm not always sure you can how to project you know, awareness,
some it might all click for him.
Speaker 12: I don't.
Speaker 17: I don't completely know, but that's something there. And then
the biggest thing they need to address the hole that
they have at the wing, like they still have it,
like they acquired Pascal Siakam. In a very telling thing,
the night before they acquired Pascal Siakam, they played the
Utah Jazz and Andrew Nemhard was guarding Laurie Markinen. They
acquired Pascal, they really toyed around with his role in
the first you know, however many games that he was there.
By the time you get in the playoffs, it's game
four and when Tyresee is out and Ben Shepherd's a
starter and they can put Ben Shephard at the point
of attack, Pascal has put Onrew Holliday and they had
Andrew Nemhart and Aaron Nee Smith back on Tatum and Brown.
It was not Pascal Siakam doing that. So what type
of role they think that they want him to have?
And then just can Matheren or Walker become that guy?
Can Venanic Mathern or Jaris Walker be a person that
you could eventually see ending up being in a starting
lineup and having some impact given that they are more
wing size wings. And I'm sure we'll get into each
of their games more specifically later, but I think that
the solutions more so are going to have to come
from little incremental steps from various players on the roster
or eventually seeking an outside solution with the consolidation trade
that we kind of alluded to before.
Speaker 2: I'll have to circle back later to that comment you
made about if they're struggling, if they would consider like
anything nuclear.
Speaker 4: But I want to ask you this.
Speaker 2: Aside from the fallout from whatever happened with Paul George
him not being there, what is the biggest storyline that
you will be tracking for this team, not just heading
into next season, but throughout next season.
Speaker 18: Is James Harden the James Harden that he was in Philadelphia.
He was very good last year, and so I don't
want to sit here and say he was better in Philadelphia.
His numbers were better in Philadelphia. But I think he
played really well last year. I think he was very efficient.
I think he never really went outside of himself to
handle the responsibilities. But they're going to need him a
lot more this year, obviously with no PG in Japan
Cohi's health status not just to start the season but
during the season, so I kind of look at him.
That's the biggest storyline for the season is what James
Harden do they get? Do they get the James Harden
of last year who averaged almost seventeen and almost nine assists,
or do they get the James Harden from Philly who
was twenty one and eleven, who's shooting more often. Tylo
said on Tuesday when he talked that they're gonna use
James and more picking roles. They want him to do
more things. They need him to shoot more, they need
him to take more shots. They aimed to score more,
they aimed to do everything. If there's one thing we've
learned about James Harden. He's one of the greatest offensive
engines in the history of basketball, and when he wants
to shoot, there's probably not five better offensive players in
the game right now than him. The problem comes down
to whether or not he will shoot, because at times
he would, you know, he dealt with injuries at times
the latter half of last season. And then it also
comes down to whether or not he's actually to the rim.
He didn't get to the rim a lot last year.
Last year, I believe he only got only twenty five
percent of his shots last year were inside of eight feet.
It was thirty three percent the year before in Philly.
I want to say it was forty two and a
half two years ago, and three years ago I think
it was forty five percent. Like he's he's drastically gone down.
He's become a heavy jump shooter, which in his defense,
great three point shooter, especially off the dribble. Obviously, I
just think he needs to needs to get to the
rim a lot more. And I'm I'm really interested to
see that process because Ty talked about because I asked
Ty specifically on Tuesday, do you think with no PG
And obviously I know I keep saying this, but losing
pg's obviously a big deal. But does losing PG allow
them to streamline their offense more where you're not trying
where you're not trying to get three main guys involved.
It's one main ball handler, another guy like Kawhi who
is the best offensive player on the team but won't
handle the ball as much as Kawhi, and then everyone
fits in around them, rather than trying to fit PG
into that as a puzzle piece as well. And he
said he does think that to some degree, there's gonna
be a level of streamlining that's gonna that's gonna take
hold here. He said, that's the idea. He said, it's
always tough to replace that kind of player. James and
Kawhi are their focus offensively, but obviously norm is gonna
be a focus and they argue, and he did say
they're gonna post if it's a Zubots a lot more.
And he said it's on him to find the right
spacing around those guys, which is gonna be the biggest
non James question of the season is how they non
James and Kawhi questioned the season, which is, how do
they figure out spacing because they lost like PG, say
what you want about him, all time, great shooter, especially
for a size, you know, floor spacer and all this.
They lost that guy and they have to i'd shooting
out of guys who not really had a great track
record of being great shooters. Derek Jones Junior obviously chief
among them, Chris Dunn also among them. They get Nico
Batum back, very good shooter, but Nico doesn't shoot a lot,
so that like he helps with the spacing, but not
as much as a guy like PG would. The big
wildcard and all this, I'm sure we'll get into this
later as well, is what do you get out of
Kevin Porter Junior. We don't know if there's gonna be
a suspension from the league office. There probably will be,
just based on things that have gone around and been said,
but we don't know yet. We don't know what that
suspension length would be if there is one, and we
don't know what kind of player he is right now.
He went, he missed a year of NBA basketball. He
went to Greece. He only played five or six games
in Greece and then he came back. That's a lot
of downtime for not playing NBA high level basketball. So
that's the big wildcard and all this and what they
can expect out of their offense.
Speaker 2: So with James Harden, though, I guess we're gonna streamline
the offense. That looks more like James Harden is kind
of the center of everything, which I thought he did
a good I mean, we saw this in Philly too,
where he was kind of toggled between two existences. But
like he goes to LA and almost half of his
made threes came off assists, which is just unheard of
for Harden. So if you're gonna put the ball in
his hands, I think that's mostly fine if you're looking
to stream on your offense, But if you're looking for
more variability and maybe hardened shot selection, you've kind of
already mentioned this, but how do you get him to
the rim if he's on the ball, because like that
seems more like at this stage of his career would
have to be an off ball thing because he's not
going to get by a ton of guys. And so
I think his rim frequency you mentioned like inside eight feet,
he was below twenty percent of shots coming from like
actually at the rim last year, which was a career low,
I believe, and so if you have I mean, like
Kawhi is even kind of that type of player now too.
This is you've added some maybe complimentary rim pressure and
Derek Jones Junior, so Terrence Man floating around out there,
Chris Dunn as well. But I just like, what a
streamline in the offense then, look like? Is it just
running it through James Harden running a lot you mentioned
posting up zoobox more what is it is a lot
more picking roles featuring James Finn Like, I'm just curious
as to what that winds up looking like.
Speaker 18: I think there's be a lot more pick and roles.
I think they're gonna just to lean they might end
up having to be one of the highest pick and
roll frequency teams in the league to have a sustainable offense.
I mean, Ty did talk about, you know, since he's
been there, they've been basically a top five offense every year,
and obviously Kawhi helped with that, and so does PG
and obviously getting James last year. Like, of course, if
you have star players, odds are you're gonna have a
great offense. Like that makes sense. But Ty did work
a lot of magic in the year. I want to
say twenty one to twenty two. Kawi missed the entire year,
PG only played thirty games, and they were still a
winning team. I think that's what they're gonna lean their
hat on, is, Look, we're not gonna be as great
offensively as we were last year, but we have to
be better defensively. They went out and got all these
defensive guys, you know, Derek Jones, Chris dun Niko Batoum.
They get these defensive first guys to hopefully boost them
on that end to where they're not always playing against
the defense on the other end. And I think when
they do play against that defense is they're just gonna
have to hope that they run enough pick and rolls
and have enough floor spacing to where on the off
chance James does get downhill, he has ample runway to
get to the rim and do what he needs to do.
I remember there was a game very soon after he arrived.
It was in La I want to say it had
to be Memphis because he was being guarded by Santi Aldama.
And I remember in the fourth quarter and I sat
where my old because they changed the media seats for
into a dome from where it was at Staples. But
at Staples, my media seat was basically center court up
where the broadcasters are, so I got to actually kind
of sit next to a lot of cool people in
my years covering them from that position. And I had
someone next to me, and James tries to take Santi
al Dama off the dribble, and it just it didn't happen,
like two or three straight possessions, and I remember this
person next to me, and I just going, Oh, this
might be bad. And yet throughout the year, I will
say this, he dig it into better shape. He was
able to start getting past people at at a higher rate.
Obviously not to the rate that prime James Harden, because
he's not prime James Harden anymore. But I think they're
hoping that he comes in, you know, knock on wood,
he comes in in shape. Everything I've seen seems that
he is in shape and in great shape in the fact,
and hoping that he's able to maybe not just get
the burst back, but get the wheel back to This
is your team right now, the balls in your hands
all the time. Go do whatever you need to do,
and we'll live with it. And they're gonna have to
spam a lot of pick and rolls with Zoo. Maybe
they try to play small and just try to get
spacing that way, where Nico plays the five and you
run pick and pop with Nico, because Nico is also
a great facilitator and connector out of those that maybe
that's another way, maybe you incorporate some of that to
get James a little bit more wiggle room. They have
a lot of questions they need to answer, but we
also don't know what the answer is gonna be until
probably ten to fifteen games into the season with him.
Speaker 5: Especially.
Speaker 2: Playing, by that point, we might have to wait longer
for what the full strength answer is.
Speaker 18: And I mean, going off of what they've said, they
haven't ruled out Opening night because they're not going to
rule out Opening night until they absolutely have to, because
opening night is the opening of the new arena.
Speaker 2: I will I don't even mean to interrupt you, but
like that would be surreal in a negative way of
look at what they gave up the pukawai and I'm
not relitigating the trade like those two were the face
of this different era. The whole point was kind of
like we're going to open the Intuit Dome with these
three stars, and imagine if I'm the opening night of
the Intuit Dome, they have one of one star and
it's neither PG nor Kawahi.
Speaker 4: I'm the court.
Speaker 2: That's just like, yes, you could believe it because of
everything that we've seen over the years, but it's also
kind of mind melding.
Speaker 18: Yeah, it's uh as. I would say it's very Clippers
a lot of ways that they've had thirteen straight winning
seasons and the one season they go into the new arena,
basically they it looks like the same old thing has
been happening for them, whether karma or curses or just
playing sheer dumb luck, they've had all.
Speaker 2: Of it, and this is I think there's a number
of different ways that you could go with this one,
including a couple of things you just talked about. But so,
what is the biggest storyline for the Lakers this season?
Is it how JJ Redick fairs? Is it whether do
they have the gall to make some I don't want
to call it seismic, but like significant roster upgrades, or
is it something else that's happening on the court, Like
if they believe in this product, is will Ken his
team level up? Internally at all there What does Lebron
look like at age forty? How many games do Lebron
and ad play? And they played sixty six games together
last year and the Lakers still just weren't considered a contender.
That's the thing that blows my mind when I see
fans like saying, oh, well, don't connect an upgrade over
Torrian prints and one you don't get to just say
that about Torrian Prince was miscast, probably relied too much
upon by Dark but it wasn't like they don't have wings.
They still don't have wings.
Speaker 6: Still didn't do anything about that.
Speaker 2: What is the biggest storyline for you for this team?
Speaker 20: I think we've kind of gone over it. It is
like it's it's there are several things, and you know,
none of them are sexy. Sorry Lakers fans, but it
is going to be how JJ and his crew handle
this staff. It is going to be how they instance
you know, what type of defensive mindset they instill. Because
at the same time as I'm saying like, yeah, it's
about the you know, the philosophy and getting everybody, every
everybody to buy in, it's very difficult to make chicken
salad out of chicken shit. Okay, I'm sorry. If you
don't have the defensive personnel, it's very difficult to you know,
put a defensive lineup out there. What you can't you know,
you can perfect it and get the most out of
and maximize guys by putting them in better positions and
you know, like shifting them, you know, shifting the philosophy
in terms of crossing the boards, and shifting the philosophy
in terms of like, you know, whether you're gonna have
a D and drop coverage or you know, or whatever.
Speaker 14: The case may be.
Speaker 20: Yes, things can be shifted, but ultimately it's also a
matter of the roster. Again, you can't have three non
defenders in your starting five every single night. You're not
going to be successful in the NBA on a for
a you know, in any real or significant manner if
you have that scenario. I think, and this is the thing,
this is the port of contingtion. Some people think BAM
is the most you know, versutile defender and you know,
big defender in league. Some people, you know, whoever you
think it is, I personally have watched a D up close.
I've seen what he can do. I've seen what he's
been asked to cover for And I still say, even
right now, I'll take a d as the anchor of
my defense. But you can't expect him. You can't expect
him to you know what I'm saying, Like, you know,
make miracles happen when you have just total sieves and
you have individuals that are being permitted to not really
give much of an effort on that end. No disrespect
to the legends, but we all know who I'm talking about. Uh,
you know, for long stretches of the regular season, of course,
you can't have that and expect them to be good.
So really, what are you gonna do with this roster?
How are you how are you going to implement your philosophies?
And then really truly, how are you going to place
your players that you do ultimately have? How are you
gonna put them in the best position to win.
Speaker 2: I've been asking people to open things up. What's their
biggest storyline that they're tracking for their team leading into
next season? And I pride myself on kind of knowing
what the answer is going to be for most of
these teams. From my guests, I have zero idea what
you're about to tell me when I feel like I
could maybe guess, but there's like three to five things
that I could if I was to just ask this,
like answer it myself. So what is your biggest storyline
that you're monitoring for this team entering uh next year?
Speaker 15: Like could it?
Speaker 2: It could be just the health, it could be the
fit of Zach EATI. We really haven't seen the fit
of Marcus Smart with everyone, there's just so many different
directions to go.
Speaker 21: I think the biggest storyline is pretty simple. This is
a keep the main thing, the main thing. The biggest
storyline is is Jamarant back? Like if Joam Moran is
just that guy we briefly saw it last year. I
mean it was almost a storybook last year when he
first came back, he missed the first twenty five games
that Grizzlies were six and nineteen. In his first game back,
the first game Joamrant played last year, he hit a
buzzer beater to beat the Pelicans. He had thirty four
points that they rallied from twenty four down. He's a
shot at the buzzer to win. They win their first
four games with Jah Morant and it's like WHOA, We're back.
But then after nine games he gets injured out for
the season.
Speaker 2: He won Western.
Speaker 21: Conference Player of the Week the first week he played
last year, so it looked like Joah Morant was back
last season, but we only.
Speaker 2: Got nine games.
Speaker 21: So the main issue for the Grizzlies is ja Morant
gonna come back and be the all NBA caliber player
that he was beforehand.
Speaker 2: There's no reason he shouldn't be.
Speaker 21: Still very very young, still very very good, but it
seems like the whole league has forgotten about Ja Morant.
Speaker 10: And I listen to a lot of preview podcasts.
Speaker 21: I read stuff I see like the player rankings, and
I never get upset about a player ranking. I know
they're for entertainment, but my eyebrow did go up very
very high when it's like John Ris the thirtieth best
player in the NBA, like based on what I've seen
that multiple like like like that ballpark where I'm like,
the guy is a thirty point per game scorer, the
guy can't be guarded, the guy's a great passer, and
the guy.
Speaker 10: Has won, He's won consistently.
Speaker 21: It's weird where people draw in the off the court
stuff talking about jaw and they I don't know what
it is, and they say things about him. They describe
his game as like, doesn't play a winning style, and
I don't think I'm fighting a straw man here, Like
I see people saying stuff, and I'm like, he's won.
Speaker 22: He's won his entire career.
Speaker 21: They were supposed to be awful his rookie season, and
they were competitive and good. They would have made the
playoffs if they hadn't come up with the fictitious bubble
tournament thing where you had to qualify for the playoffs in.
Speaker 4: The middle of the season.
Speaker 2: Dan they changed the rules for the playoffs.
Speaker 4: They did it.
Speaker 2: They did it to him, p John Moran.
Speaker 21: They did it to give Zion Williamson a chance of
making the playoffs. I can't believe the league presidents or
the whoever's involved signed off on it. If I was
in a fantasy league and you change the rules halfway
through to keep my team out, No, JOm Moran's one.
Speaker 10: John Moran and the playoffs has been amazing.
Speaker 21: He's even stepped up his level of play in the playoffs.
So the biggest storyline for the Grizzlies is basically is
John Murant gonna play seventy games and reclaim I think
his rightful place as being one of the top fifteen
players in the league is there, like a.
Speaker 2: Because he's still only twenty five, he's super young. Is
the next step for him still? Just like, hey, he
hasn't shot thirty five percent on spot up three since
his rookie year. Let's just have that happen because the
volume is like kind of there. I mean, I know
last year he didn't play it tip Like when you
look at kind of the trajectory of the three point attempts,
like okay, I'm okay with the volume, those things could
fall at and I'm not asking him to hit all
these like complicated step backs, but that just kind of
feels like offensively the last frontier for him.
Speaker 21: Yeah, there's some formula for how good the Grizzlies are
going to win next year. There's some like fake formula
that I'm gonna make up. It's some combination of Jamarant
games played times, Jamarant three point percentage, Like if Ja Morant,
maybe include Gg Jackson in there too, Like if John
and Gigi can make like thirty four percent of their
three pointers and also be healthy in play, the Grizzlies
are gonna win a lot of games in the regular season,
if joshoot's thirty two percent for three, it's gonna be
a little bit a little bit harder. So yeah, I
think still that jump shot, if he could add that,
just get to the Dearn Fox level of knocking down
a few more jumpers, that's gonna help his game, I
think tremendously. Maybe the other thing you always ask about
his defense, Although John He's been a part of really
good defensive teams, so I think he can do enough
there to not be a total.
Speaker 22: Just uh SIV and allow everyone to penetrate past him.
Speaker 21: I do think, yeah, maybe the final level for Jomran's
game is just consistently being able to hit three pointers.
We're not asking for the world thirty four would be great.
Speaker 2: But when you're looking at this season, what is the
biggest storyline to you that you will be tracking as
we get into it and over the course of it.
I feel like I could guess where you're gonna say
if I had to, But I'm very interested to hear
your answer.
Speaker 23: Well, now you're gonna have to tell me your guests
after Obviously, I mean health aside, because I think that's
an obvious one. I'm super curious if BAM is gonna
continue to be the BAM that we saw.
Speaker 2: I did not think you were gonna say that, and
I love it because that's real sick. Oh shit, So
please wait?
Speaker 23: What did you think I was gonna say?
Speaker 2: Con track to you here, Jimmy Butler, No, I'm that
is I I.
Speaker 23: Don't know if it's just me. I am not concerned
about that at all. This man is not going anywhere.
I honestly, I almost feel like both him and the
front office, primarily Pat Riley, are like playing with people
at this point. When I saw that quote from Pat
come out, like honestly, I was just like, oh, this
is totally orchestrated by him and Jimmy together to kind
of feed into the whole heat twitter mania that was
going on at that time. I don't know, maybe I'm
going to eat my words. I'm just I'm not concerned.
I'm really curious how BAM is going to progress and less.
So honestly, I don't necessarily even I mean, more is
always better, but I don't necessarily expect more. I just
want him to stay consistently this aggressive on both ends
of the floor.
Speaker 2: Let's stick with the Jimmy thing for a second. So
you say you're not concerned. I think you could probably
argue that contract to your Jimmy Butler might be terrifying
for the rest of the league, But it also does
create a storyline because there's the report. Don't I don't
care about the Brooklyn report. I dare you to go
sign with the Nets at this point, and what I
would say, but the whole he wants to the report
that he wants to get to free agency. You are
this is someone who is the thirty five years old,
like your timeline, and team is very much still built
around him. He is headed into a contract year. He
will have a market if he gets the free agency
because he's one of the players who can actually shift
things that might actually get the free agency. Now, you
don't think that that kind of has the potential to
become a distraction for this.
Speaker 23: Team, No, j Jimy's just built different. I feel like
I've never seen a player so I don't even know
how to put this. I just feel like he's preparing
himself for what comes next already and has been doing
so for so long. And that's not to say that
he's near retirement anytime soon or that he isn't like
completely giving is all on the court, But I feel
like between big Face and the Alo yoga st I
don't know. To me, he's not the type of player
that I'm concerned is kind of scrambling because he's nearing
the end and wants this big payout. I think at
this point he wants to win as much as possible
and as badly as anyone. But I don't think he's
necessarily gonna bring down the team or completely shift his
entire life because of that. Again, I don't know if
I just have a different read on him or a
wrong read on both him and Riley, but just from
things that I've noticed, especially last season, but even the
two or three seasons prior, there's a lot of leaning
in to everything, all the noise that's happening outside of
the team, whether that's media or fans, and I don't know,
to me, it's all just them like leaning.
Speaker 19: Into this narrative.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I would be very concerned if you hit
a rough patcher if this team is not as good
as fans or internally they want to be that. I
don't think he's gonna like destroy them from within. But
that's when it becomes gut check time of like if
we're like eighth, Like what does that mean? Like he's
only gonna get older. And so that's the perspective I'm
coming at it from. And also I think Jimmy Butler
and the Heat in general have lost some of their
mystique about like kind of fuck the regular season when
you just weren't healthy to even once you got to
the playoffs, and like there's only so many times you
can get to the postseason while being like a fringe
playoff team anyway, And so I think, again it might
not be I think Jimmy Butler plays well. I think
his agent curve has been fine. He put up like
all star caliber numbers last year. The two point efficiency
dropped a little bit, but he did take more threes.
He made more threes. I still am very curious see
how he specifically does age. Have you made anything of
that about just like the trajectory of how his game
that's not only just leading into this season, but like
if they're gonna resign him, it's gonna be years beyond
that too.
Speaker 23: Yeah, I mean, I do think his game is gonna
have to change a little bit. I do think he's
smart enough to do so in a way that it
doesn't take God forbid, like a major injury to have
him had to that moment. You know, whether that is
I don't know if it's taking more threes or honestly
just become a becoming more of a facilitator. I think
that he would rather protect his health than go full
fledge into you know, the way that he's been playing
I don't know, maybe two three seasons ago and risk that. However,
with that said, I mean, the man's conditioning is a plus.
Speaker 14: You see.
Speaker 23: I know you can't necessarily judge everything based on social media,
but you see all the work that he puts in.
Speaker 5: You know, pumps.
Speaker 2: I judge everything by shoulder pumps, and Jimmy gets one
of the best shoulder pumps in the NBA.
Speaker 23: So I don't know why, but that just made me
think of Zion, who is an entire different caliber of player,
if you can even call him a player at this point.
Speaker 4: But no, I don't know.
Speaker 23: I think he's he's gonna be smart about it. The
other thing, too, is Jimmy doesn't do anything anyone else's way,
and I feel like that also gives me a little
bit more confidence in his future with the heat. I
think if we were talking about most other players, and yes,
it would be a concern, But to me, Jimmy is
just Jimmy.
Speaker 5: So I don't know.
Speaker 23: I hope I'm not wrong, but I'm not really concerned
about that.
Speaker 2: I get to dictate so much of how these episodes
go that I wanted to include this question to start
things off this year. What is the biggest storyline you'll
be monitoring for this team throughout this coming season?
Speaker 14: Health first?
Speaker 24: But I'm not even gonna talk about it because it's
not fun. But obviously that's gonna be the number one,
the most fun one, and the one that was worth
talking about. It's probably just like Dame Chris and the
Honest together, and you mentioned the Bucks were really good
when those three played together, and like, are really good
to the point of you'd think, like, okay, they're probably
a contender anyway.
Speaker 14: But some of the buzz is like it should be better,
and I think it can be better.
Speaker 24: I mean, I think if you watch it, I think
you would agree, And a lot of people have like
they weren't all that cohesive at all, especially the fabled
Damianis pick and roll.
Speaker 14: They didn't really get good at it.
Speaker 24: That the Dame Brooke pick and roll was better and
Chris Gianni's actions were better because they've been doing it
for a decade. No, no real surprise there, But all
of the focus since Doc really came in was we
need to get this played down, like that's that's their thing.
I think that can separate them from every other team
in the league is you could look at other teams
are deeper, certainly Boston. Maybe you can say other teams
have more top end talent. I don't think there is
another action maybe outside of Denver, that you could be
as devastating singularly as a Damianis pick and roll.
Speaker 14: Like, I think it.
Speaker 24: Should be as unguardable as anything that exists, especially given
they have the personnel around it, right Gary Trent on
one wing, Chris Middleton on the other, whether you have
another guard, a big whoever, someone in the dunker spot,
it's pretty unguardable. It should be totally impossible to stop.
I mean, their gravity totally shifted to teams doubling Dame
around half court, which Giannis has never seen anything like
this before. The floor totally shifted. So really those two
but I'll throw on Chris as well. I think they're
gonna do something because he's not it's just gonna be
spacing right. It's a really good player. But like those
three being even better together, I think, because I think
that's what whether the regular season numbers are the same,
better a little worse in terms of their on court efficiency,
if they're gonna win a title, it's because a close
game in the last five minutes, they can just say
we're gonna get a really good look every single time,
Like we're gonna score every time, We'll make the stops.
Brook and Giannis and Trent and whoever will figure that out,
but we can just be totally unguardable and get a
great shot every time and just win. So that's what
I think their biggest storyline is is can those two
go from we made it work because we're so good
to okay, we're actually on all cylinders and no one
can guard this action at all anymore.
Speaker 14: I think that's gonna be number one for me.
Speaker 11: Dan, We're gonna talk about the Minnesota Timberwolves real quick
here ahead of the twenty four to twenty five season.
As you look at this remade Wolves team post big trade.
What do you think the main storyline is for them
that you'll be watching for paying attention to this season?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 2: How do we covered this before a couple month ago,
which we did with Kyle Taigee of the Dane Moore
NBA Show. I think it would have been Rob Dillingham
and how they integrate him. But now it's just going
from Karl Anthony Towns and Julius Randall Dante DiVincenzo and
what that fit looks like. I've got I understand the
logic of what they did, and I think I've kind
of come out of it that the deal almost seems
safer for them than it does the Knicks. But I
understand it for both teams. But there is real risk there,
I think, especially once you get to the playoffs, because
I do think the theory, aside from the financial benefits
you get of Julius Randall potentially being an expiring contract,
is you've now added someone who's just has more on
ball gravity as a shot creator. That is not translated
to the playoffs. Now, maybe it's different on a team
that has Anthony Edwards as the number one option as
opposed to Okay, yeah, they had Jallen Brunson for one year,
but the other year Julius Randall was the number one option,
and so like, that's not a situation you want to
be in. Doesn't harm your defense at all, it could.
I think it makes Rudy Gobert's job harder because of
how well Karl Anthony Town's played at that end. I
do find myself more optimistic though, because Devincenzo fills what
was arguably their biggest weakness last year. I think we
still default to secondary creation ball handling, passing, whatever, but
like their wing shooting was not a strong suit, and
now it's absolutely a potential strength because in two ways,
because Julius Randall's gonna allow Anthony Edwards to play off
the ball a little bit more, but then just Dante
Divincenzo's gonna come in and light it up. And I
think your bench overall during the non Edwards minutes, you
could do something like if you're using Randall, Devincenzo and
Nikhil Alexander Walker is kind of your like bass, and
then nas Reed is sort of like your base second
unit heavy mob. Oh my god. Like there's a lot
of two way potential there and enough I think Julius
Randad gives you enough creation you could sprinkle Rob Dillingham
in there. Dante Evincenzo can do a little bit off
the ball. You don't want him to do too much.
I'm just fascinated to see how it all comes together.
And finally, before I throw it to you, I think
people have talked a lot about how Chris Finch hasn't
been inventive enough on the offensive end. I think he
hasn't really had the personnel to do so. And now
you add someone like Julius Randall and Donte DiVincenzo, I
think we'll see that part of his coaching really flourish
or like get super experimental, or you'll be able to
more identify, like something stand out from that the Wolves
are doing.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I definitely agree that the new angle to cover
is just like, and this is one of our first
questions when the deal went down, is like, how much
of this move is a basketball move versus a financial move?
Because the risk that you alluded to is you just
took a team that you know had every chance of
advancing to the finals potentially like looking at this year
based on how last year went and maybe made it
worse on the floor for financial reasons maybe, but with
some distance from it, the piece is kind of fit.
And a lot of that's Stevencenzo, as you alluded to,
because his ability to shoot on the move at volume
and playmate as a secondary guy is just like, we
got new dimensions now so that it's different and that's
risky because the Wolves were already established is really good.
But I do think monitoring how much different and maybe
more effective the offense is is just like, that's what
we got to focus on with these new pieces. How
does Randall fit in? What's the best use of him?
Is it as a backup creator? Maybe on second units?
I don't know the other thing I throw out there
and you you said, I think you're right, as like, well,
a month ago or before the trade, we would have
been asking about Dillingham, before the draft, the storyline would
have been, well, how much how much bigger of a
leap can Anthony Edwards make?
Speaker 18: Like that?
Speaker 11: That's like that, really we can talk about everything else
we want, and there are a lot of things to
discuss with the Wolves, but like the question of is
this guy now just a top five MVP level player
for the next five to seven years like, is that
what we are going to get? Because there were certainly
signs of that, you know, down the stretch last season.
All the face of the league stuff is overblown. The
next Jordan stuff is unfair and ridiculous. But like Edward's
taking that leap, I arguably might matter more than anything
else we're talking about. And it's just gonna be fascinating
for me to watch. Like, I don't know, is the
playmaking gonna take a huge jump. Is he gonna cut
out some of the pull up twos and replace those
with fouls drawn for free throws?
Speaker 2: Like we're catching you threes threes?
Speaker 4: Like there's a lot of ways to go.
Speaker 11: And I do think the trade and and like the
eventful draft for the Wolves definitely is like pushed that
to the back, and I think maybe as the year
goes on, that's something that might matter.
Speaker 10: More than anything.
Speaker 2: And also the Dillingham subplot is still there because you
did You could say it's a future focused move, but
I honestly wonder had the order of events flipped. Let's
say that Julius Randall Dante DiVincenzo trade happens first. Do
you think they're still making that Draft day trade? For
dilling Camp.
Speaker 10: That's a great question.
Speaker 11: You would like to think that they had all this
like sort of on the big board as like, well,
if this then that, But I don't know because because
then if you just have Devincenzo there, do you feel
like your second unit is got enough offensive initial and
playmaking and shooting like maybe you do?
Speaker 2: And do you view and if you're even taking the
longer term approach there as well, do you view Rob
Dillingham as can't miss enough to let's play our last
best trade chips here?
Speaker 11: Well maybe maybe if the events were reversed they still
pull off a trade like that, but it's not for
a player type like Dillingham. They're just like, we're gonna
shoot the shot and try to turn it into someone
that can help in theory. Like now, because I like,
what's Dillingham's long term upside? Do you think they view
him as like he's our I guess at the time
it was like he's going to be next to ant
for ten years.
Speaker 2: Like that's that's what I do think. That's what they
probably still view him as is someone who can get
off the ball quickly, play off the ball, but generate
looks for himself. And others. I do think we've seen
him struggle a bunch already though, And I'm I think
you can go to two different schools of thought here
is we're not gonna know if the trade was a
mistake or how it pans out for years, Like, that's
still gonna be something that plays out. What does he like?
I understand it's a future focus to move, but like,
does it get harder to get reps in for him now?
With Randal Devincenzo there is it a little bit easier
in the sense that, well, if you play him with
one or both of those guys in staggered units from Ant,
that his job gets a lot easier to wear. I
think we both could agree, no matter how high you
are and Rob Dillingham, the odds of him coming in
and just being a net plus as the playmaker with
Ant or the primary ball handler with Ant off the
floor might not have worked out as well. Now he
doesn't necessarily need to do that. But at the same time,
you also give Chris fincher reason not to play him.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, it does.
Speaker 11: It cuts both ways for sure, Like you could just
make the case that well, now the lift will be lighter.
He won't have to take as many lumps. That's good
for his long term development. Or the flip is like, no,
you should just sink or swim with this guy and
see because you what you invested to get him.
Speaker 2: I do think as we're talking.
Speaker 11: About it, overall, the Wolves moves do sort of events
like that they are thinking about like near term, mid term,
long term, because even just getting Randall, who might come
off the books, is like, that's kind of a mid
and long term play, and maybe you think it's also
a short term play because he just makes you better
than Cat, especially if you factor in evincenza. Like they're
kind of We've definitely criticized some teams for operating on
multiple timelines and it.
Speaker 4: Hasn't typically gone very well.
Speaker 11: But the Wolves kind of seem to be like they've
added a third timeline because it's like it's now later
and much later that they're pretty clearly thinking about both
financially and just like what this team looks like, you know, say,
as Rudy gobert Age is out right, and then like, yeah,
there's just there's a lot of different factors to be
considered here, and.
Speaker 2: That would be the the medium term one would actually
be the argument that I think props up because if
you're using this as just, oh, this is way off
into the future, that's why they made this. There's very
much domin Well, you could have figured that out as
you went along and more picks opened up and you
understood what was around. And the medium term argument I
find more intriguing, especially now, because it's if this was
a financial move, it was more about Julius Randold being
technically an expiring contract while having that player option, So
you could look at it from the perspective of, well,
if Randall's only gonna be here for a year or two, Max,
we know my comedy's gonna age out very soon, they
still want dialing him in their program so that when
those guys leave, he is ready to just take the
reins beside it and be in the starting lineup. I
just and I'm not I don't think that was the
wrong I think it's a fascinating call. I don't know
what the right move is. I do think though, that
it's very difficult to juggle what the wolves are doing
then to where it's well, how do you balance do
you have the cushion, like are you good enough to
get Dillingham reps that potentially come at the expense of
positive minutes. What if he's just rookies have learning curves,
I think, especially if you're gonna view them as like
point guard types. And so do you have enough of
the cushion or do you have the stomach enough to like, well,
we're still gonna figure out ways to sprinkle him in
once you get to the playoffs. Whatever, if he can't
be part of the rotation, not a big deal. I'm
very interested to see though, how heavily they prioritize his development,
like now that they've made this move, because I think
it was they almost needed him to They didn't need
him to play before. Now I don't think that they.
Speaker 11: Do, right, Yeah, and and and that's again that's probably good,
but also like it sort of adds more risk slash
devalues the decision to give up a future first, like
the last the last bullet you.
Speaker 2: Had, the Pelicans have like ninety different things to choose problem,
And so, what is your biggest storyline as we're sitting
here that you'll be monitoring with this team.
Speaker 25: Yeah, look, so just continuing right off that one, it's
is Brandon Inger going to get traded, and when is
that going to happen? I think, excuse me, they would
have liked to have done it around the draft or
around when free agency first started. I don't think they
necessarily read the market correctly, or I guess I don't
even know if that's fair to say it is because
I feel like they anticipated they'd be suitors, and I
think that's the reasonable anticipation to have, and it just
turns out that like no one was interested, and now
they're here and it's it's September. Basically, there's a chance
maybe Utah wakes up in two weeks from.
Speaker 8: Now and they're like, you know what, we're not going
to tank.
Speaker 25: We have lowry market and Bill Hardy, and you know,
we're just gonna go for it, and maybe they get
a deal done.
Speaker 8: But I would say that chance is very slim.
Speaker 25: So what you're looking at is Brandon going into the
season and without an extension, and at what point is
some team gonna come around and be like, hey, like,
let's move in on Brandon like the Indiana Pacers did
with but Pascal Siakam in the middle of the year.
So it's not stuff that hasn't happened before. But it's like,
who's going to be the team, what's that deal going
to look like? And there's other stuff around that deal
that needs to happen, particularly from a financial standpoint, just
where the Pelicans are at with their finances. So it's
just like, man, now you have a pretty fine needle
to thread, and it's kind of like you're running out
of time to do it.
Speaker 2: What is like, do you have any theories as to
why the I understand brandan are gonna be a difficult
player to fit into the larger context of a team.
He's still a good player and he's not old, Like,
what do you make of just the tech trademarkt Is
this more about like teams still trying to really wrap
their head around the new CBA? Is it doesn't speak
to the level of not desperation, but like, Okay, he
said it into his final year and now we're gonna
have to pay him, and so that's on their mind.
Is it just well, the Pelicans might be asking for
too much and they don't They have leverage in negotiations
with him, but maybe not a ton of leverage in
trade negotiations. It's such a bizarre dynamic when looking at
his trade value specifically, for sure.
Speaker 25: I think it is almost entirely related to his contract demands.
You know, from my understanding, him and his agent are
seeking the maximum four year extension that he's eligible for
that put him around two hundred and eight million dollars
in new money, which is a lot of money.
Speaker 8: It's a lot of money.
Speaker 25: It's thirty percent of the cat and so that's where
the Pelicans have a pause. That's where I think a
lot of teams have paused. So it's like, we're going
to spend assets to trade for this guy, and then
we got to pay him like a top fifteen player.
Last year, there was fourteen players in the league that
made thirty percent or above the salary cap. So you're
paying like a top fifteen player. The return has to
be a lot more than what Brandon's provided. On the
basketball court, he's a very good player. He's had availability issues.
You know, he's played somewhere around like forty five fifty
and then like sixty ish games in the last three seasons,
so he's missed, you know, twenty twenty plus games each
of the last three season, and then as a player,
I think he's topped out. He hasn't quite broken into
that absolutely surefire All Star or All NBA range. Yet
you know, he's kind of had spurts where he's looked
like that guy in certainly stretches where he's looked like
that guy. But teams are just like, man, I don't know,
that's not a sure thing, So how can we commit
money to that?
Speaker 2: So if they're going to go into the season with him,
I guess the one like easy question is there is that,
like there's a chance that just becomes a major distraction
that's hanging over the team right because it's constantly being
speculated about and talked about and reported on.
Speaker 8: I am really worried about that.
Speaker 25: Because the other component of this is the pending Trey
Murphy extension. So Trey Murphy is finished three years of play,
he's eligible for the rookie extension. My understanding is something's
gonna get done. Therefore before the season starts. I think
both sides have a good working relationship. But if you,
let's say something gets done, I think it's gonna be
a lot of money. So let's say Trey Murphy is
making somewhere in the thirty million dollar range per year
or in the high twenties, just but it's still a
large amount of money. And then you have Brandon Ingram
who's in expiring, who doesn't have a deal done. Does
he feel some type of way that they prioritize Trey right?
And then what happens if Willie Green decides one game, Hey,
he's not having Brandson having a great game, We're gonna
close this one out with Trey, you know, or we're
gonna just some of these decisions without that contract in
hand make me a little bit nervous. And then I'm
also a little bit nervous how Brandon's gonna approach it personally?
How is he gonna play knowing there's a contract on
the line, if he feels jilted that he wasn't given
a MAX, is he gonna go out there and prove
he's a MAX player?
Speaker 2: And what does that look like?
Speaker 25: I mean, he's just taking a lot of shots and
not necessarily playing within the system. I don't think any
of these things are impossibilities, And I just think you've
got to have a healthy fear of things going wrong,
and there's a lot of things that can go wrong.
Speaker 2: Now you've already said that you're kind of just out
of the fit with Zion, and I think de Jontay
Murray coming in super complicates that. But like, if there's
a way for Brandon Ingram to fit in the larger
context of the team, what does that look like? Is
it kind of winding back the clock to that when
you look at a shot profile the first season in
New Orleans night and day basically compared to what it like?
Just is that what it looks like to him like
that type of like offensive role or is it is
there other things that you're monitoring there, like what is
the pathway? Because it sounds sounds like he's gonna be
on this team on opening night. It's like, what is
the best way for him to actually optimize himself or
help optimize him this team.
Speaker 8: One hundred percent?
Speaker 15: It's it's the shot profile.
Speaker 25: With the Johntay Murray coming in, rad is gonna be
off the ball a lot more than he's used to being. Uh,
there's gonna be touches split between him, de Jonte's, Zion,
all these guys would like playing on the ball. Somebody's
gonna have to get those threes up now. The Jonte
hasn't been shy in getting those threes off, but he
took a fair amount off the dribble threes as well.
I don't know if Ba is comfortable taking off the
dribble threes, and if he doesn't have the ball in
his hands, he might not even have the opportunity to
take a lot of off the dribble threes. There's going
to be a lot of kickouts. Zion's gonna get to
the paint kickout. De Jontay is gonna get to the
paint kickout. They're gonna play up tempo and transition. He's
gonna have to take those threes. Defensively, he's trended upwards
since you know the Alvin Gentry standing gun to years
every single year under Willy Green, I think Brandon's been
solid and he's had moments of good defense. You know
where I think previously he could have been called a liability.
Now I think he holds his own and can be disruptive.
Speaker 2: He's gonna have to.
Speaker 25: Maintain that level of defensive intensity and I'm just a
little bit concerned where, Okay, you're gonna be a player
that has to get threes up, and then you're gonna
have to play defense, and then you're gonna have the rebound,
then you're gonna have to facilitate. You're gonna be super
Nick Batomb, which is a very very good player, right,
But is that the player he wants to be. Is
that the player that he thinks is gonna get a max? Ironically,
that player would get a ton of money. I mean
we just saw we just saw Ognob get a monster
but got like.
Speaker 2: One got nine figures back when it was a big
deal to get nine.
Speaker 25: Exactly what he got he actually got I think a
twenty five percent max. I think at the thirty, but
he got twenty five percent max that Ptom did. But yeah,
og Ojina knew we got a monster deal.
Speaker 8: And and Brandon's I don't think.
Speaker 25: I don't think it's a stretch to say by any means,
the brand is a far better offensive player and the Nananobi.
Speaker 8: Just in terms of capability.
Speaker 25: So can you become this versatile glue guy? And does
that goal against your own self image?
Speaker 14: Right?
Speaker 25: I think that's kind of the battle here. It's like,
we need you to plug in these holes. But he
sees himself as the go to person, like the you know,
like a Carmelo.
Speaker 2: So if I had to force you to make a
prediction on how this ends, whether it's he gets traded
before the season, mid season, we take this to free agency,
maybe we see an extension, maybe we see him resign.
It's August the thirty first, and this is probably gonna
go up like very soon, because this is a team
that could blow up like everything that we talk about.
If you had to predict how this ends, what would
you go with.
Speaker 25: I believe he would get traded mid season, closer to
the trade deadline. I think the Pelicans would kick tires
around Jared Allen once again. You know there's gonna be
five days of trade eligibility there for Allan, who signed
his extension earlier this summer. If that fit is going
south for Cleveland, Pelicans will one hundred percent be knocking
on that door. Barring that, I think the Pelicans would
accept just any kind of general Hey, let's just get
some salary back that's maybe expiring, maybe a week pick
or maybe some weirdly interesting young prospect.
Speaker 2: Well I'm looking at I'm looking at.
Speaker 25: Houston for for example, right, what are they gonna do
with Jailing Green upper in Shangoon? And if we get
to the deadline and Houston's just out of this playing
chase and not even like in playing contention. Are they
willing to do Jalen Green? Maybe one of those future
picks and and something, you know, some weird salary that
they got. It's gonna be an unappetizing trait.
Speaker 8: The Pacers got three.
Speaker 25: Picks, yeah, man, picks and then you know, uh was
it the sorry, Yeah, they got three three picks, That's.
Speaker 12: What it was.
Speaker 2: There's the twin. I guess the Indy's twenty twenty six
pick is somewhat intriguing. But like if they have Seeacaman,
Halburn and m Hard they I don't know what, like,
they're gonna be good.
Speaker 25: So yeah, sorry, yeah, I keep saying the Pacers gone,
But the Raptors did and they got the Bruce Brown
contract and that was essentially it. So yeah, who's gonna
be like the Bruce Brown thing that comes back in
this steal? That's kind of like what I'm looking at,
like the guy that's playable salary that you're hoping to
flip later, you know, for for something I don't know.
And and I think if that deal doesn't net a
center for them, I could see the Pelicans taking some
of if there's any draft capital that comes from that,
or taking some of their own draft capital and attaching
it to CJ and.
Speaker 8: Going after a center with that regard.
Speaker 25: You know, I'm looking at Nick Claxon in Brooklyn, who
I think the Nets are going to be open for
business for any of their players at this point, as
long as you're willing to meet their price.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he would be so good on this team. He
probably likes to like do stuff with the ball a
little too much than what they're looking for, but he
is so good. I love Nick Claxton. Big Nick Claxton
fan over here. Is that when you're looking because we're
gonna get into more Carl Anthony town stuff. But I'm
asking everyone for a promotional episode that will go up,
like right when the season starts. What is the biggest
storyline that you're tracking for this team? Is it the
overarching expectations now because they've made all these moves, Is
that maybe one of the new additions, Like what is it?
Speaker 26: I mean, just far storylines are concerned, it's it's it
has to be like what Carl Anthony Towns looks like
in Well in New York.
Speaker 2: I think is the biggest and that you troun and
I'm even sorry up with that to you would trounce like,
what is Michael Bridges. We're just it's so I would
agree with you, I think just because Michael Bridges is
just universally like he just fits anywhere and does anything.
So yeah, which is interesting that they gave up so
much for this guy. But the biggest storyline is, oh,
this other center that they brought in and they detected.
They didn't give nearly as much draft equity up. They
gave up real stuff.
Speaker 4: But so that's the funny thing.
Speaker 26: And again you alluded to to again my colleague, mister
mccre like, when the Knicks went all in for Michal Bridges,
I don't know anybody that said that was a bad
trade by the Knicks.
Speaker 4: Like they gave up a lot.
Speaker 26: They definitely probably overpaid for Mchal Bridges, like five picks,
one heavily protected Milwaukee pick and some salary filler like
and all the swaps right, But everybody's immediate thought was, man,
they have anenobium Bridges, like two of the best role
players potentially in the NBA, the one of the best
wing combos. That you've now created something that is contender
worthy and if they could figure out the right lineup
combinations as a chance to be deadly and with Towns,
because there's so much concerned with Towns, the person, the personality,
the match with the market, and what he's just flat
out been over the course of his career. The Knicks
gave up just flat out less than what they gave
up for Bridges. But there's so many questions for one
trade over the other, so like it's it's I just
have no questions about mcl bridge. I think he's gonna
fit perfectly in New York. And the guy never misses
games and is playing for Tom Thibodau. It's gonna be
a match made in heaven, you know. Although I had
one of my again another Claudia casino bet, how many
games will what cal Bridges missed this year?
Speaker 6: Point five?
Speaker 26: I dare somebody to take the over under TIBs, Like
did you see it the day that the mccal bridges
misses his first game and it's like, oh, TIBs up
to his old of course he misses his first game
under top Thibodeaux. It has to be the concerns about
Karl Anthony Towns And here's the thing. I think they're
gonna be an outstanding regular season team. I think they're
gonna finish top three or four in offense, top twelve
or thirteen in defense. They're gonna win close to fifty
five games. But the expectation's changed now. This isn't the
let's just win a bunch of games and hopefully make
the second round any more. There's a Conference Finals expectations
on this team and this roster, and especially when you've
gone this all in that you know, for the first
time in a long time, I can say it will
be a disappointment for me if the Knicks don't make it.
And I welcome the challenge of that storyline and who's
who it's gonna fall on, which part of it might
fall on tips, But back to the original point, Karl
Anthony Towns and going all in on him as your
second best guy will have a lot to say about
whether they accomplish it or not.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you, though I've been told there've
been complaints that I dictate too many of the terms
of these podcasts. They've all come from Grant, so it
really shouldn't matter. But I've decided so I'm gonna throw
this to you, Jacob, what is that? It'll be interesting
if you guys have different answers here. But what is
the biggest storyline you are tracking for this team next season?
Speaker 11: Oh gosh, that's a heavy and loaded question. There's so
many good answers here right, Like do they play a
two big lineup? How do guys progress? What is the
closing lineup? Look like, I'm gonna go with my biggest storyline,
biggest development thing I'm watching next season is the year
one to year two chet holmgun jump, because I think
that jump will be substantial. I wish I had the
article up. I do not, But the day that they
traded Josh Getty for Alex Caruso, Woja's ESPN article included
a line that talked about how opening up more playmaking
and ball handling opportunities on the team by trading away
Josh was something that appealed to the Thunder, especially with
chet Holgren. And I mentioned earlier that I think Chet
at the five is the future of this team, and
I don't want the listeners to get this twisted. I
am not saying Chet will be this player. I'm not
saying Chet will be this good stylistically, I think stylistically
on offense, I think Chet Holmgren and Kevin Durant are
going to be very, very similar, and I think that
is the start of the jump. You will see this
year Chet with the ball in his hands, more check playmaking,
handling out on the perimeter and attacking off the bounce,
check being the ball handler in a four or five
pick and roll with Isaiah Hartenstein. I see a lot
of CAD's style of game offensively in Chet Holmgren, and
I think you're going to start to see that leap
in year two. I think the brother just ran out
of gas in year one. Honestly, what the podcast Yeah
said he was shooting laser beams at the front of
the rim, and if you go back and you watch
any film from the second half of the season, it
definitely looks like that.
Speaker 2: I think we don't watch games around here, so that's
not gonna happy.
Speaker 4: Narratives only I'm into it.
Speaker 11: So you've been told, right, my my biggest thing I'm
watching for next season it is the year one to
year two Chet Holmgren leap, because if you told me
two maybe three seasons from now, that this team stays intact.
But Chet Holmgren is the best player on the team
with shake Gojess Alexander, I wouldn't be shocked at all.
Speaker 2: Holy All right, well let's get into that a little
bit then, So what you kind of mentioned what that
could look like, but and not to if you're gonna
use Kevin Durant as the analog, if you're trying to
like sort of zero in on the type of usage
that we think will change from Chet Holmgren, Like if
it's just like a shot type incorporates or a play
type you mentioned four or five pick and rolls. I
guess actually my first question, but do you actually think
that he has the handle or the ability to develop
the handle that would empower him to do all of
this stuff where it's like the stuff that Kevin Durant
can do with the ball in his hands. He's not like, no,
he's not Kyrie Irving or Steph Curry with the ball,
but like he can navigate traffic, I would say better
than we've seen from Chet. Maybe that's a matter of opportunity,
But do you believe in the handle to that degree
where it's not just a matter of creating for himself.
You're talking about initiating offense or others at that point.
Speaker 4: Is there now?
Speaker 19: No?
Speaker 4: Will he be there year two? Probably not? Can he
get there over the course of the next three to
four years? I think so. I think back to the
playoff series.
Speaker 11: Where the Thunder played the Los Angeles Clippers, and the
Clippers game plan was let Chris Paul guard Kevin Durant.
Doesn't matter that there's an eight inch height difference there.
Chris was able to get under the handle because Katie's
handle was so long from hand to floor and a
little bit looser, and Katie's really tightened that handle up.
I think it will be a process for chet. I
think he can get there, and I think that's the
style of play he wants to play and that the
Thunder want him to do offensively. So I think it'll
be a work in progress for sure, but I think
it'll get there now.
Speaker 4: Again, not saying he's going to be Kevin Durant. I
want to make that clear.
Speaker 2: Aggregators. Jacob digs that Dan's going to clip this and
see it is going to be a clip for a
larger project, but it'll be out there. So is there then?
What is something then? Specific? Like if you're looking at
kind of like if you look at his shot diet
this year and then if you had to compare it
to next year, like, what's one area that you would
like to see more of them?
Speaker 14: Jacob?
Speaker 2: Is it kind of like you mentioned, you know, the
pull ups?
Speaker 5: Is it?
Speaker 2: Maybe he had like kind of a at points like
he shot really want floaters last year?
Speaker 5: Is it?
Speaker 2: I'm not a fan of, you know, let's give the
ball to him in the post, but maybe developing a
turnaround or being able to have more face up opportunities
inside the arc, and not to compare him to Christops,
but like the ability to just like turn touch the ball,
turn around, face up and be like, oh fuck, I'm
taller than everybody. I'm just gonna shoot this.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So the one, the one biggest spot is three
point attempts.
Speaker 22: That's what I take them.
Speaker 11: He took four point three last year. I'm gonna be
real honest with you. If he takes like seven this year,
I think that's a really good sign.
Speaker 2: Well, they could use someone who takes that many for
teams the floor so well they don't would didn't you
guys were the ones that I know this from. I'm
only one player took five three point in times per
game last year.
Speaker 4: My god, and that was Lougan's dort.
Speaker 2: Notice a Joe noted sniper.
Speaker 11: I think you're gonna see those attempts start to climb
for a handful of those guys, but for Chet specifically,
I think off the dribble threes, trail transition threes, I
could see them running some like pinned down type of
actions and like coming up from the corner type of actions.
And then he also has you kind of mentioned the
idea of like not posting him up, but when he
catches in that high post area, he actually has a
really nice, like little turnaround MIDI fade away. He almost
goes to like the dirt like high knee fade away.
And I think you could see that a lot more
as well. He's got really really good touch, and like
I said, I think last year he ran out of gas.
You could just tell the legs were dead. He wasn't
getting any arc in his shot at all. I think
another offseason, having the full season under his belt, really
starts to fix some of that up. And hey, maybe
he takes Paul George's advice and shoots with like a
what Paul say, like a bound basketball or something like that.
Speaker 27: The way they did basketball.
Speaker 5: I like it.
Speaker 2: Poultris had like a ship ton of shoulder issues, So
I hope.
Speaker 4: That's kind of where mine mind went.
Speaker 27: And that was Chet's response to him too, which I
found pretty He was not specifically, but he alluded to it.
He was like, dude, like, what does that do to
your shoulders? And I was like, that was pretty good.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 27: I don't find out real quick, Jacob, your your first
two questions or your first two answers to to Dan's questions.
I think we're pretty spot on. He touched on a
lot that I have like more specifics on. I think
it would go later on through the outline that Dan
gave us and some really fun things to talk on.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 27: Dan, I apologize, I'm like kind of taking over hosts here,
and as Jacob knows from our podcast, I do that
way too often. But I will just say, yeah, just
back to like the big takeaway you had, Jacob. I
love that you mentioned that because I kind of want
to take it a step further. And I had two
two quick ones, but my main one, and I kind
of call it the little hanging fruit. But it's not
just check for me and his improvement, it's the big
three and OKAC in general, Dan, Shay, dub Chet, I
know Shay, you know was second MVP voting. Seems like
he's a top five player in the league consensus if
you ask around, look to all these national national media
podcasts and articles that they have out there. But he
has a lot of growth as well as a player.
And so how did these players continue to work on
their own games and improve, Like, obviously we want to
see Jeb take a big leap. Jacob just crushed talking
about Chet in the league. We want to see from him.
How do they do that is still play alongside one
another and also within the construct of the team. Let's
make it very clear, none of us here in OKAC
are worried about personalities or then these players not wanting
to do so, that's not them at all. They want
to play within the construct of But Mark Degnall and
sat Press they have a visioned for this team more
so just them being also incredibly talented and still have
so much room for growth.
Speaker 2: Are they all able to do that together?
Speaker 27: And that just kind of leads like to my I
think my final big, big takeaway for the season is
like you have these new big additions like we're about
to get into without Scruso as a heart and sign,
plus playoff experience now under the same team's belt, plus
the Superstar and Shay and the rising stars that we
just mentioned. That equals new expectations.
Speaker 15: And look, let's be very clear.
Speaker 27: The Thunder preach about not listening to the outside noise,
but just know that it's impossible not to hear those things.
And so how does this Thunder team, this young Thunder team,
you know, how do they perform in comparison to those
those external expectations.
Speaker 2: It does seem though that because one of my questions
that doesn't need to be a question anymore based on
how you guys think that they're going to use Chet,
is do they miss the Josh Getty check connection all
just because Giddy did a good job of actively looking
for him, especially when you look at the share of
the passes he threw. Now you take Giddy out of
the equation, that's one less person who needs the ball
in their hands. Doesn't it kind of just make it?
I would say a non concern about j Dubb and
Chet and Shake Goildzugg's in are all being able to
play like kind of a starring Like teams just have
three guys normally that can or I'm sorry, super teams
have three guys that can normally operate on ball and
a lot of the times things tend to work themselves out.
And so is that like even an at like if
they're I guess if there's a player of the three
that you would be concerned about like sort of I
don't want to say lost in the shuffle, but seeing
their skills being tamped down, is it naturally just Chet
because of the like the position that he technically places,
or Maybeven just the defensive workload that he's shouldering, so
you don't want to overtax him too much on offense,
like Jacob is there, Like it seems to me from
that perspective, like getting rid of Josh Getty just takes
care a lot of any of the concern when it
comes to the collective development of those three.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're totally right.
Speaker 11: And you mentioned like the number of passes Josh Getty
made and how many of those are going to Chet,
And Josh was great at getting guys to their spots
and I think a lot of folks have this idea
that like, Josh Getty's a really bad player, and I
just think with the rapid development of the Thunder, the
fit just wasn't clean at all. I don't have the
stats to back this up, Dan, this is just a
he no ball quote. But I think the better connection
on the team is Dub and Chet. They developed like
Double is the only guy who could complete a lob
to chet Holmgrin, but they developed a really, really nice
two man game, especially with one of them attacking and
the other one cutting and being able to find each other.
And I think the absence of Josh Getty opens up shots, touches,
passes opportunities specifically for those three, and I would say
even more specifically for Dub and Chet, Shay's usage I
imagine would stayed the same. I don't think it's going
up because of the absence of Josh, so I think
those other two get even more of an opportunity. And
I think putting the ball in Jalen Williams's hand with
Josh Gunn, I think Jadab might be the best passer
on the team. And I think you'll see a lot
more offensive initiation with him as well, So I think
the absence of Josh just opens up opportunities for those
other two to really grow more naturally into what they
want to do. Where Again, I don't think Josh is
a bad player, but Josh absolutely needed the ball in
his hand to succeed on this team, I think, just
to succeed in the NBA, and those opportunities were rapidly
dwindling in Oka. See, but you also still wanted to
play him. But if you play him playing him off ball,
we saw how that went right and it wasn't good,
So I think it was just a very natural transition.
I actually mentioned this on our show the other day.
The trading of Josh Giddy and that opening up more
opportunities for Chet and for Jada is very similar to
me ten plus years ago when they traded Jeff Green
to open up the opportunities for Serge Ibaka Okay.
Speaker 4: Serge was a.
Speaker 11: Little more unknown at the time than these two obviously are,
but they got rid of one guy to open up
opportunities for another, and I see something very similar happening
here with the absence of Josh.
Speaker 28: One of the biggest storylines I guess I'm following this
season is Anthony Black's assertion as a lead facilitator in
that eventual and Jim Suggs in that starter role.
Speaker 19: I'll start with AB.
Speaker 28: I think with the loss of Joe Engles, who assumed
that role last season as the offensive hub between him
and Movagner's two man game, I want to see if
AB can inherit that responsibility off the bench in a
lead creator role, and the idea of having a surefire
point guard around to set the table has become the default.
Speaker 19: I think around the league.
Speaker 28: But I think one of the most common misconceptions is
making plays isn't the same thing as running a team.
I know that's been an emphasis for AB, and through
a pair of summer league games this past season, I
thought he did a much better.
Speaker 19: Job of manipulating the defense.
Speaker 28: He's reading the help side defenders a lot better than
he was a season ago, and he's finding players a
step late or step two slow.
Speaker 19: Before he's making those high level reads.
Speaker 28: So I think all that, combined with the fact that
both he and Jen Suggs saw pretty much near non
existent usage from within their offensive playbook.
Speaker 19: Specifically AB, I.
Speaker 28: Mean Jamal Moseley did less than the bare minimum and
helping create offensive pathways for him, even his big Dallas
out offensive outburst. Most of ab scoring in that game
came from having defend for himself versus having his number
called within set plays. So I think adapting to the
speed of the pro game is already a major struggle
at first, and then you add seeing limited playing time,
being thrust into the starting role and then being primarily
utilized to defend the opponent, opposing team's best guard and
then just not be rewarded within set plays, within the
flow of an already like we mentioned, pretty barren offensive playbook.
It's rough, and I know on paper he played sixty
nine games in his rookie season, but he only.
Speaker 19: Saw double digit in fifty fifty of.
Speaker 28: Those games, I believe, and what a point guard needs
most is time, patience, the water and sunlight of chances
to fail, and then the structure and the opportunity to grow.
Because if we go back in time, gild Suggs didn't
have the greatest rookie season of all time, and now
you can see that Orlando's presenting confidence and sugs to
take over that league guard role. And then I want
to see if AB can be able to do that
off the bench as well.
Speaker 2: Do you think that they're going to have the time
and space for Anthony Black to do that? Though, when
you look at a team that it's a very interesting
storyline to focus on just because they have immediate aspirations,
like they have time just because not on his next
contract yet even for end size his extension, but that
doesn't kick in. This team is young, but like you
made it to the playoffs, and progress of course isn't linear,
but like the idea is, it's not win more games
or make it further in the playoffs and last season,
but it's have a better product at the end of everything.
And there's a tug of war there where it's giving
Anthony blackmore runway to run things on the offensive end
that will go a long way and maybe they have
enough spacing around him now where they might even feel
more comfortable with him doing it. When you also are
a team that's like you're supposed to be in the
playoff conversation in the East, and I think some people
even probably have them penciled in like the top five
or top four just based off their defensive ceiling alone.
How hard is it to juggle this idea that, oh,
we want this sophomore to continue to develop like at
one of the most important, like functional positions in the league.
But hey, we also don't necessarily have the stomach for
the growing pains to just like, oh, if he's out
there and has a really bad game, can can we
you know, are we built to overcome that and let
that ride?
Speaker 28: I don't think it necessarily is It doesn't necessarily have
to be Anthony Black at the one and then give
him the ball and everyone just get out of the
way and let him create. There's a lot he's a
six seven, six ' eight guard. He's a big guard,
and there's a lot of things that he can do
on the floor that doesn't necessarily equate to him.
Speaker 19: Having the ball in his hands.
Speaker 28: I mean, in that Cleveland matchup in the playoffs, Orlando
ran inverted screens for Palo Bank Caro nine times and
didn't score a single point in Game one through their
inverted screen set. I mean, you put Anthony Black, and
Anthony Black did a really good job of pairing with
Palo Bank Carro and weaponizing his ability as a screener
in those inverted screen sets. In specific, that game against
New York at home in Orlando, and no guard on
the Magic came close to sniffing more than one hundred
screen assists. So if you want to put Anthony Black
as a primary screener for Palo using his size, I
think that in.
Speaker 19: Itself freeze up a lot for Polo.
Speaker 28: And one of the most common ways that he was
able to do that this season, which we didn't really
see a lot of because of his staggering minutes whether
he was playing or not playing, was the Magic were
very successful when ad was screening for Polo via wed
screens or pin in screens. So he's gonna, I believe
he's going to be a critical He's going to be
critical for their potential playoff success if they want to
advance and compete in the second round this season, whether
that be the ball in his hands or other variations
of him being involved in the offense and not just
being thrust in the corner like he was last season,
saying hey, if you get the ball, just shoot it.
Speaker 2: Do you trust though, because that will be part of
his role in certain sets, Do you trust like the
jumper to come along enough to where he's not I
think people sometimes confuse shooting and floor spacing to where
like floor spacing is you could be like a not
so great shooter, but defenses respect you. And I think
when you go back and look at him, Anvy blackshot
well from three last year, but it was on a
negligible number of attempts, and you look at the way
a lot of those were defended or the situations they
came in, I wouldn't call it necessarily like capslock for
SPA saying how do you feel about sort of development
of his because that's going to be whether he's on
the ball off the ball, like the jumper is going
to be something that needs to be a trustworthy weapon
and is arsenal.
Speaker 28: I yeah, I expect the three point attempts not only
for Anthony Black but for everyone else to increase. But
I know that the I know that, so I know
the magic. I believe there there were twenty seventh to
three point attempts. But when people talk about three point attempts,
I don't want you to just chuck up shots for
the sole purpose of increasing those attempts.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 28: One of my biggest coaching x is coaches refusals to
draw plays for certain players. I know we haven't touched
on Gary Harris today yet, but throughout the playoffs as
a veteran, he shot seven for twenty two, seven for
twenty two. As a starter whose sole purpose for being
on the Magic was to provide three and D.
Speaker 19: He provided the D and No.
Speaker 28: Three and not one of those plays was a drawn
to play for him. In those twenty two attempts, I mean,
he's not coming off of veer screen. He's not coming
off a twist, a punch, strong curl, Oklahoma, Finland double drag.
All his attempts, every single one of them were a
result of kickouts. And so going back to your point,
not only for Anthony Black, for the entire team. I
want the attempts to increase, but I want more of
an emphasis to be drawn on drawing a plays to
create advantages and space for shooters, not just stashing them
in the corner and then having them receive the ball
off kickouts. It's just not It just hasn't worked, and
I don't believe it's gonna work the more you do it.
Speaker 2: Do you think that could maybe be a function of
their lack of trust in the actual like offensive accessories
on this team to where it's the way to generate
good spacing around. And I'm just gonna use this guy
as an example because he's the most mort player on
the team. But like when you go back and look
at just like Palo bang Herro drives and how much
spit were like when he's in, Like how how much
space this dude does not have to operate? You do
organically kind of stretch defenses by having guys in the corners,
and if you don't trust players to either run or
execute the more complicated stuff, and look, they're dealing with
a young team. You know, we're talking about Anthony Black,
Balon Suggs just finished up year three. So if you're
not necessarily trusting those guys in those actions that you're outlining, it, Like,
do you think that that had to do with a
level of concern And we're not even concerned, but like
we're still trying to feel out like what these young
guys are going to be able to do? Or do
you really think that it was just kind of like
this functional cop out a little bit that there should
have been more complicated stuff being run. Yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 28: More of a functional cop out than the alternative. And
some of it, like from a half court perspective is
that the team just wasn't like you said, They just
weren't running many complex plays to alter the defensive structure.
Opposing teams are basing because everyone coming into the night
new we're gonna switch to Blitz, Pilo and Fronds and
everyone else on the corners. If they're gonna beat us,
they're gonna beat us. We're gonna live with that. But
I think in a bird's eye view, I mean the
loss of their primary offensive play color Nativots came just
a few weeks before the season that started, and he
accepted a head coaching gig for the Phoenix Mercury with
not a lot of time to replace. To replace him,
and Jesse Murmis took over the play calling duties and
it didn't necessarily bore with leading and it led to
a lot of clunk. I mean, they don't have many
secondary ball handlers either, so someone who can create their
shot off the dribble, aside from Cole Palo Franz and
to a degree Jailen. So if and when their primary
action didn't work, you were just left with like you
mentioned at Palo Bank, hero Iso, which was another direct
result of his poor efficiency and then I think ab
Jet and the addition of KPS KCP helps in that
regard as because I believe all three of those guys
are connective power and having more guys on the floor
who can create advantages and provide relief options is just
good for an offense that has been non existent for
We're going on about two seasons of now.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've been asking everyone who comes on
what the biggest storyline is for this team? Did we
just tackle it? Because I feel like the East for
people like how does the big three fit together? But
Joel Embiide is still such so critical to what they're doing.
Is that the answer? Is it a different answer? Like
what are you kind of tracking most closely this year
for this team?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 29: So it is the health, right, because if they don't
get to mid April early May with both Joel and
PG healthy, then kind of we could just throw it
out right now, right Like, I think both of us
are pretty high on Tyrese Maxi in the league landscape,
But if you're asking him to take Andre Drummond and
Kelly Ubra and Caleb Martin past the second round, like
that's just that's not a reasonable ask for anyone. So
the health is number one, but I do think the
offshoots of how they manage Joel are probably the most
fascinating thing to me. Right, Like you can split it
up into a bunch of different categories. One of the
ones that is most interesting to me is like, what
are the consequences on the court. For one, you're taking
all the back to backs off the table allegedly, so
that's fifteen games off the top.
Speaker 5: No Joel.
Speaker 29: They've said they'll probably build some other minimal rest in
at some point for him. Let's call that another five
to ten games, So you're in the lower sixties. Let's
say he even if he gets through with like fairly
clean bill health, he misses another five to ten. So
you're talking about, you know, mid fifties, maybe mid to
high fifties in a fair not best case scenario, but
a very good scenario. And with Maxi ascending and Paul
George is probably going to get some time off himself,
you know, what is the identity of this team? And
does Maxi become the guy for long stretches of the season,
and so more importantly to me, when you get to
the playoffs, what is your identity? Because I think we
see every year most of the teams that are playoff
resilient that make it to you know, conference finals finals
have had the supporting cast and the stars mostly if
not all healthy the whole year. They figure out that
they run through their plays and their stuff and they're
not even thinking anymore, right, it's just react. Like if
it's Jokich, it's he knows this guy will make this
cut at this time. He doesn't have to look on
the pass. Anthony Edwards is running a.
Speaker 6: Pick and roll.
Speaker 29: He knows what his reeds are where, and you just
go down the list like Luca, same thing last year.
He's got complete command of that offense. And it's just
hard when Joel has said, like ty Resee is going
to be the guy this year and I'm going to
help him with that, and it's like it's easy to
say that, and I believe that he trusts him and
wants to empower him in that way. But once Joel
is on the floor, it's like the guy's getting the
ball and the offense is running through him. And so
how do you balance that idea of like he's the
guy when he's available, but he's also not going to
be available for let's call it twenty five to thirty
five percent of the season pretty much guaranteed. And is
that a way to win at a high level in
the playoffs. I don't know the Raptors did it in
twenty nineteen, but they got absolute Apex Kawhi and they
had a ton of high level, intelligent role players. I
mean even they got Marc Gasol at the deadline. He was,
you know, high basketball IQ. Kyle Lowry, high basketball IQ,
Danny Green has won in a million places, Like it's
not easy to replicate that. And they were also fortunate
in the finals that the Warriors fell apart as well.
Speaker 2: Does that come down to Embiid making more of an
adjustment than Maxie at this point? Because I think one
of the things that's impressed me most about Tyrese Maxi
through the first you know leg of his career, he's
played so many different types of rolls on like, he's
seen so many different iterations for the Sixers, and he's
only going into year five that we know that he
can adjust and shape shift kind of on a game basis,
a lineup basis, and so like, what is the challenge then,
for like, is there a way for Joel Embiid to
be again, He's going to be central to the offense,
but like, what is the path to him being more
offensive compliment for stretches or coming in maybe not disrupting
some of the other elements that the Sixers have going
on without him.
Speaker 29: Well, I think the good news is that Tyresee is
the most hand in glove fit of a star that
he's ever played with offensively. Like, if you go back
through you know, the start of Joel's career, he's succeeded
with guys that are high level shooters that can shoot
on the move, that are successful out of these like
dribble handoff looks right, So go back to JJ Reddick,
he was great at it. Seth Curry, who has you know,
has not always had a home everywhere. He's been a
great shooter, but kind of like Journeyman a little bit.
He was awesome in Philly in part because Joel created
space for him and they figured out that two man game. Well,
MAXI no disrespect to those two, a far more advanced
player in a ton of different ways, way more dangerous
off the dribble. And though Joel and ty Resee have
figured out you know, all the nuances of the two
man game out of those handoffs and just Tyrese using
his big body as a screener. Tyre's turning the corner
and making the reads. Are they trapping, are they you know, dropping?
Speaker 5: Whatever?
Speaker 29: And I think the most important thing is Joel trusts
ty Rese just blindly, right, I guess not blindly because
incredible worker, like the high character guy has put the
results on paper every single year gets better, gets better,
gets better. And I think you saw in that Knick
series the what was a game five in the Garden
where Maxie went for like forty seven. That was a
game where Joel struggled for a lot of that game,
and there was a very clear point in the fourth
quarter where Maxy was like, it's like I'm playing better,
and Joelle happily was just like gave him the runway
and said it's your show.
Speaker 2: Do that.
Speaker 29: And we saw that throughout last season, at least when
Joel was healthy. So I think he wants to do
whatever is it's going to take to win. There will
certainly be moments where Joel thinks like I have the matchup,
I'm the guy, whatever, But I do think they are
so tight. Both on and off the floor, that it
should help make that process of figuring out, you know,
whose night is it, who shot is it all that
easier than it probably would be otherwise.
Speaker 2: Mike, and I'll want answers from both of you, assuming
they're different here, But aside from Buttonholzer and whatever he's
going to implement, what is the biggest storyline for this
team that you're going to be monitoring entering next season
or throughout next season.
Speaker 30: I mean, it has to be the addition of multiple
point guards to this team, because this was a team
that I think it was justifiable to not have to
not start a point guard if you start with two
guards in Bradley Beal and Devin Booker, and the idea
being that you can have both of these guys, along
with Kevin Durant, handling the ball enough and creating enough
for others to sort of be okay without one. But
the fact that they pulled off an offseason where they
added I think competent point guards at both the starting
and backup position, I think changes things for how this
team can play offensively and even maybe has an impact defensively,
if not just because of.
Speaker 6: The ability to.
Speaker 30: Not turn it over constantly, because that's really what was
the biggest problem, but maybe to have other players out
there that are good at getting in the passing lanes
and actually turning the other team over a little bit.
Speaker 2: Sam, how much of an impact do you see like
Tias Jones having on this offense, even just aside from okay,
we know the assistant turnover ratios generational, but like, is
there like another area or just like is it general organization?
Like what type of impact you envision him having on
a team that is so loaded with again, three guys
who in theory can do a bunch of stuff on
the ball.
Speaker 31: Yeah, it really is just general organization, because let's be
honest in terms of both who Tias and Monte are.
They have this generational skill and their other skills are
just average. These guys are average at everything else. Right, Tias,
he comes with a little bit of a floater game
that's pretty good. Monte has a midrange game as well.
I'll be curious to see how much they're sort of
pushing him to just fire away from threes when he
comes off the bench and maybe get away from some
of the stuff that he's done in the past. But
we need them for their point guard skills. Because again,
this was the ninth best offense in the NBA last year,
and not because they shot the ball poorly from any
particular spot on the floor. They had lots of loads
of good three point shooters. Just look at the season
that Grace and Allen had being the best three point
shooter in the NBA at a certain volume. They had
terrific mid range shooters, terrific finishers at the rim, with
the exception of use of Nurkic, who's the worst finisher
you've ever seen and is the most use of Nurkich,
who I would describe as the most frustrating net post
player I think I've ever watched, is probably what he
was for the Suns last year. So yeah, we just
like ninth best offense, one of the worst turnover teams
in the NBA. If you just add Tyas and Monte
and turn them into a top ten team in terms
of taking care of the ball, how many points right there?
If we consider it like a math formula, how many
points can you add to your offensive rating?
Speaker 5: Two?
Speaker 4: Three, four?
Speaker 31: Like, it feels like there's a real pathway there for
them to get into the top five as an offensive team,
which is what they need to be if they want
to hit their ceiling. Now what's it going to do
for their defense and their defensive versatility and their rebounding
and all of these other things. You know, we can
quibble about that, but yeah, these guys are going to
be huge for the organization.
Speaker 2: I think what helps though, is that by not turning
the ball over and not giving you know, teams extra
opportunities or opportunities in transition. I think they were bottom
ten defensively after committing a turnover, and so that could
help your defense by extension. But my question to you, Mike,
what does this do by having Tias Jones in there?
And we're looking at the core lineups of it all
where you have Bial and Booker and Kevin Durant. Those
are you could stretch it if you want to with
the definition of wing and use Devin Booker and do
or Kevin Durant. We're talking about four non wings who
could be a part of their core lineup without getting
to a big man first. Like, does does it have
a sort of trickle down effect with one? Maybe there's
a concern from you guys about what their core lineups
look like. Does it portend some type of unique or
heavy staggering. Could we see one of those guys and
probably Tias, or could we see like a Bradley Beal
maybe not on the floor during certain crunch times, Like
what is just the trickle down effect of having so
many important non wings on this team.
Speaker 30: It's interesting the crunch time thing is is a conversation
that we just had recently on the podcast in that
you could see a scenario where Tias doesn't play in
the last few minutes of a game, right, and then
you have the big three on there, maybe with Grayson
and Nurkic or or some version of somebody off the bench,
maybe it's Royce O'Neil even for a little extra defense,
or maybe bowl Bull who knows Sam's favorite player.
Speaker 4: We'll get there, coming in and playing with size.
Speaker 30: But they were, and they repeated this a lot anytime
the Sun's played on ESPN or T and T. They
were the worst team plus minus wise in the last
five minutes of close games in the entire NBA last season,
and a big part of that was due to turnovers.
It's hard to say that they brought a point guard
that doesn't turn it over to this team and they're
going to sit him right when the game is very important.
So little too sorry, but like no, absolutely, it's it's
it's just true. So so it does have somewhat of
a trickle down effect. We even had the conversation of
would this team be better? And look, don't get me wrong,
it's the middle of the summer, so we needed to
come up with podcast topics. But we did have the
conversation on our podcast of does Bradley Beal need to
come off the b Now there's no way that that's
going to happen. There's no way, but just coming up
with ideas or thoughts on how this could potentially work.
That is something that has to pop in your head
at some point in thinking about this team, because in
some ways it's Tiat Jones and you have two shooting
guards and then you have Kevin Durant who plays like
a seven foot shooting guard. So it's like three shooting
guards and and a big on the floor, and I
think that's gonna it's gonna be troubling. It's hard to
picture a team that's this small or plays this way
being a contender. I mean not to jump to any
future topic here, but it's hard to picture that.
Speaker 31: If egos and contract considerations and all that didn't exist,
and we could just arrange this like a two K rotation.
It certainly feels like Tias Jones and maybe Grayson Allen
in the back court, and then you've got Booker and
Katie and Nurkic fits together as a bunch of puzzle
pieces who play the right roles. And then you use
Bradley Beal as he gets his thirty minutes per game,
but it's off the benches of micro grave score and
doesn't necessarily have to close games. Again, is that gonna happened? No,
we're just posing that if all of this other stuff
didn't exist, if Botenholzer didn't have to consider feelings, doesn't
it feel like Dan and you can disagree, but doesn't
it feel like maybe that would just fit a little
bit better.
Speaker 2: No, it absolutely fit better if this was if there
wasn't any like politicism involved here, like with what Mike
Boonholder has to do. I think that that's completely logical
that you would think that that's their best setup, and
if it's not, or if they feel beholding, so we
have to play all three of our stars, our highest
paid players, then we want tie us out there. Could
they find themselves like relying more than you know, I think,
Mike or we both you just mentioned they don't want
to lean on Kevin Durant or no big lineups let's
call them. But do you become more dependent on those
lineups because you have to have a way to fit
all of those guys into the fold. While then also
like we we want like someone who's considered sort of
a wing checker out there.
Speaker 30: And you know what it does more than anything else,
it makes the trade deadline. And Grayson Allen really interesting
for this team because Grayson Allen I love him, and
he was really good on the Suns last year. And
they know there's a lot of negative publicity out there
for Grayson Allen and some of it deserved, but he
was really great on the Suns last year. But he
also plays the same position as Devin Booker and Bradley
Beal and they need some sort of positional versatility on
this team. He signed a contract he can't be traded
for another few weeks, but he can be traded throughout
the season, and if the Sons can find a trade
that makes sense where they can add real wings depth
to this team, or even someone worthy of starting as
a wing player. It'd be hard to turn that down
if it makes sense for this team this year. It
has to make sense this year.
Speaker 31: They do also have just to remind people because I
know you know this stand, but maybe others don't. They
have an open roster spot now right, so it feels
like they're going into the season. I think the likelihood
that they make a trade in the next few weeks
is very unlikely. But going into the season, there's a
reason that the Suns have an open roster spot. They're
thinking about February already and maybe some of the some
of the moves that they commit.
Speaker 2: What is your biggest storyline that you'll be kind of
tracking throughout this season for the team?
Speaker 20: Uh?
Speaker 2: Dunks? The number of dunks?
Speaker 22: Is that?
Speaker 24: What? No?
Speaker 32: So it all kind of leads like there's the tracking
the player improvement. What is you know what Scoots potential,
what's Shaden's potential? You know what combos work the best?
Like I said earlier, when do the Vets get traded?
I'm still wondering.
Speaker 22: If they have a good coach and.
Speaker 32: I'm continuing to look at and I want to know
who's going to be the coach at the end of
the season. This is the coach's fourth year. At the
end of this year, there's a uh player, a team option,
but he's got to be miserable. John Z Phillips was
hired to coach Damian Lillard and he's thrown into this
completely different position. He's now like, what's his record?
Speaker 22: It's like.
Speaker 32: Eighty one in one hundred and sixty five, and does
he I just I can't imagine that he's happy having
to do this, And so I just I'm watching to like,
are they getting better because it's just natural growth in
they're a year older, or are they getting better because
they're being put into situations where they're learning the game
and they're applying it on the field and they're running
plays that are recognizable And so yeah, one of the
big things I'm tracking is is who's going to be
the coach at the end of the season.
Speaker 2: That's a honestly, that's really thought provoking because I'm trying
to think of the last coach who, even if they
were a first time, had a job for three seasons
and we were kind of less asking like, well, what
is his calling card or what is his guiding principle,
And you have that question with Chauncey. I guess the
pushback would be how much of that is on him?
Because while we view this as year two of the
post Dame rebuild, like you kind of had two years
beforehand of just you know, wandering through the wilderness as
everyone calls it.
Speaker 32: Well, and they haven't been trying. They've been trying for
three years to get lottery picks. Yeah, so it's like,
what are they gonna do if they get rid of him?
Speaker 28: Lose?
Speaker 32: I mean it's like it's kind of a like no
lose situation, you know, on the one hand, but it's
like how good is it for? Everybody's like, okay, So
here's here's the thing I think about a lot. Donovan
Klington just went two national championships with one of the
best coaches in college ball, and here it comes to Portland,
a team that is not trying to win games. They're
trying to win in other ways. And Donovan Kling's coming
off of two national championships and excellent coaching into this situation.
And I know that high draft picks often go into
a situation like this, but often it's like with a
team that still like has an identity in a way
they're going and I really worry, Like I don't. I
think I'm super excited about Donovan Klingen and I don't
want him to get discouraged having come off of I mean,
back to back national championships. Like he's a winner, he's
used to winning, and he's coming to a team. I'm sorry,
I'm going off on my thing that I is good
that the three players who I love, these guys, love
these guys, but the three players who the Blazers are
looking hardest at building around. So let's start with Anthony
Simons didn't play college ball. He did a year at IMG,
and then he came in to Portland and had a
couple of years where they were trying to win. And
now the last three years has gone, you know, two season,
three seasons has gone through what he's been through. Scoot
played for two not just one year on the Ignite,
two years on the Ignite, starting when he was seventeen,
a team that does not have a winning record. No,
Shayden didn't play in college. He attended practice, but he
didn't play. And now here comes donnov and clinging into
this situation and I just I worry about that a lot,
and people assure me that that is not something to
worry about, but I I just I want to make
sure Donovan Klingon gets the coaching that he is used
to and I want all the other guys to benefit
from it too, And I'm just waiting to see that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't think people think about that
enough because everyone's so invested in I guess, like the
quantifiable and that the culture and like that impact that
you're kind of just laying out. You can't really quantify that,
and so but it's important, like it is. That's why
these teams. I'm not necessarily in favor of it, Like
you don't need to keep you on his HASLM for
twelve years to take up like one of your last
roster spots. But that's why these teams have these kind
of veteran guys that are actually on the roster spots
because they want to set like an important tone. And
I'm also wondering if that I'm this is all stream
of conscious because you thought about this, which is just
a great point, and I haven't. I'm guilty of it.
I'm not giving it much thought. But where we might
be criticizing, and I'm sure I have. It's like, well,
like why are some of these guys still on this team?
Why did they keep Malcolm Brogden for a full year?
It's like, well, that might be why so that these
these young players can come up in like the right environment.
And there are people who I do wonder how to square,
Like Jeremy Grant's actually a really good example because when
you look at Malcolm Brogden, he was traded to Portland
and he's not necessarily at a point in his career
where he might want to play that role, like Jeremy
Grant chose to stay. And I know Dame was technically
still on the team at the time, but like he
had to be eyes fairly wide open, and so having
him there and just like kind of understand, like just
to have high character guys around you while you're losing,
I would think that's super important, especially if, as you note,
like we don't really know how valuable the coach is
from that perspective too.
Speaker 32: Yeah, And I think all these guys can be great players,
and I don't want to say that they're not like
skilled and you know, coachable, and they've all like shown
some improvement over their last years, but that experience of
either playing overseas or with a college team where you're
playing for something, and then they come here somewhere where
they're still not trying to win, and it's like, that's
why I'm like, Okay, win the N Season Tournament.
Speaker 22: Play all of that's four game.
Speaker 32: What is it going to cost them? Possibly four wins? Okay,
Like I can live with four wins. Play them just
so that they can be in that hype scenario like
last seasons. In one Incison tournament game that the Blazers won,
they won the first N Season Tournament game, and it
was so fun for the fans because it was like
the stakes were not high, but it to mean something.
Speaker 5: So let these.
Speaker 32: Players who haven't necessarily been lately on teams that were
playing something, let him at least play for the N
Season Tournament.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I hope a team like the Blazers, Like I
would just love a random team to win the N
Season Tournament because that would just be really cool. Whether
it's the Blazers are like the Pistons or something, it
would just be I think that'd be a great story.
So when you look at moving into this season, I've
been asking everyone said they can take wherever they want,
what their biggest storyline is that they're tracking. But I
feel like you can correct me if I'm wrong. I'd
be interested on a pitch that's not this answer. But
it's clearly just what is the Marta Rosen's fit going
to be or how does it look with this team?
Speaker 14: Right?
Speaker 2: And so where you sawt of at on all that?
So just the move itself, Like, what was your reaction
to that?
Speaker 33: I was thrilled with the move. I mean, I think
it's a great move overall, especially when you look at
the cost of you know, what the Kings give up
to get to Marta Rosen. I mean, he is still
an excellent player even at is a. He's really good,
and he brings to the table a lot of the
things that the Kings were missing last year, some of
the things that caused the offense to stall out, you know.
So he really solves a lot of their issues as
far as needing another creator, needing someone else who can
find another shot, giving them another option in the clutch,
Like it just makes them so much harder to scheme against.
In just one way, it gives them a lot more. Look,
so I'm really excited about it, and I don't feel
like giving up Harrison Barnes and Chris Tuart is really
very much to give up. And I think how people
evaluated the loss of Harrison Barnes told me a lot
this summer about who was watching the Kings and who
wasn't because there was some interesting takes flying around there.
But for what it cost, and the Kings still have,
you know, they they didn't give up any first round picks.
They still have Kevin Hurder. Yeah, so good job Bulls.
So I mean they still have the tools to make
another move. I was hoping they would do another move
this summer, but you know, even if it's at the
deadline or whenever it might be, the Kings still have
the ammunition to do another move. They didn't spend every
trade asset under the sun just to get to Marto Rosen.
If they had done that, I would have been a
little bit more down on it. But for what it
costs the team, I think it's a fantastic move. Now,
there are obviously questions with it, and I think some
of those questions are vowed. You know, what's the defense
going to look like?
Speaker 11: Uh?
Speaker 33: You know who's how does the ball get distributed? Because
now you've got a lot of guys who like the
ball in their hand. I think those are good problems
to have. They are things that I'm curious to see
how they'll work out. But overall, I think it's a
good move.
Speaker 2: We look at the positive. Is there what you mentioned
already does? Is there one thing though, that like you
think will end up being the most impactful, even if
it's just like their free throw attempts very plummeted last year,
and like if you're not going to get to the
rim and they weren't getting the rim is often either
to get home from de ros who, yeah he's gonna
get to the basket of a time, but still just
draws fouls.
Speaker 33: That's the man, and that's huge. I mean the Kings
last year, they're leading free throw attempts for Gammas Darren
Fox at five point seven, and the Rosan gets last
year was like eight point seven. I think eight point
two is something like that it was in the eights.
It's like he is far and away their best at
getting to the line drawing fouls. Uh, you know, which
helps you with then getting your opponent in foul trouble,
and he actually makes his free throws, which the Kings
also really struggled with.
Speaker 4: So you know, he not only will get to the line,
but actually make.
Speaker 34: Some of those.
Speaker 33: That plus just the that ability to create his own
shot in isolation. The Kings didn't have a lot of that.
I mean, Monk sometimes, Fox sometimes that was about it.
No one else on that team was creating their own
shot in isolation, like and not to the level that
DeRozan can.
Speaker 2: Is there are we gonna see like dribble handoffs run
between de Rosen and the bonus and the paint. I
just feel like they're gonna be that low when they
run it.
Speaker 4: I just I see it.
Speaker 2: I hope so too. That's what I'm I don't know
if that'll be the biggest impact. That's the thing I
want to see the most. What is if you have
like what would be your biggest concern if you had
isolaid it down about the fit, Like what would be
the potential biggest.
Speaker 5: Warp for you?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 33: I would probably go with the defense. I mean, I
do think that the defense of criticism against Derozen is
maybe a little overblown because when you look at like
defensive ratings and stuff like that, which obviously has a
lot of team noise in there as well. But like
Derozen had a better defensive rating than Harrison Barns last year.
Like again, Harrison Barnes was not in any way a
plus defender, And so I don't know that, you know,
swapping DeRozan for Barnes, I don't know how much that
hurts the defense. I do think that it can cause
issues depending on certain matchups. So I'm curious to see
what that impact is. But I'm also kind of excited because, like,
if the Kings go back to being an elite offense
and can stay a middle of the pack like defense
as opposed to a bottom of the pack defense, that's
a pretty exciting team and I'll be excited to root
for that.
Speaker 2: I guess was that the take where people I'm just
so far removed from that stilo. I guess that they
thought the Kings were losing an elite defender in Harrison
Barnes or something of that, like what the perception was.
Speaker 33: There were some pundits that we're talking about how much
the Kings were gonna miss Harrison Barnes defense.
Speaker 2: So I actually think the Rosen is worse defensively than
last year's version of Harrison Barnes, just because you have
to go to greater lengths to and I don't you
have to instantly Harrison Barnes too. But the stuff that
he they asked him to do was just like, oh,
you shouldn't be doing that where it's like with the
Rosen like no, no, he can't, Like I just don't know.
And in Chicago, to his point was defensive rating, like
he got to share the floor with Alex Caruso at
points there. So but I don't think it's like when
you look at the I looked at it as I
don't know if it's a perfect offensive fit. But Demarcinus
is an elite offensive player, which Harrison Barnes if he
ever was one, like that's just not him, and so
it's a in talent. Like to me, it was a
very clear upgrade. And I think I over romanticize swaps.
That was the thing that gave me pause, Like that
swap is really far away, and it's like we want
teams that are good to go for it now and
to give up a swap for Demarto Rosen who's still
All Star caliber. You want to throw them in that
vein like it is a perfectly reasonable.
Speaker 5: Cost, so.
Speaker 2: That I'm like, I'm totally on board with the move.
Who do you think will benefit most on this team
though from him being here?
Speaker 33: That is a good question, Like as far as who
he compliments the most.
Speaker 2: Either compliments or makes their job easier when it's like, oh,
it's like Darren FOXXK gonna take more like catch and
shoot open threes or something rather than having to work
so hard for his own shot. Could be something like that.
Speaker 33: I definitely think it helps Fox the most because it's
going to do two things. Like one, you know, DeRozan
is still a willing passer and can find Fox for
kickouts or whatever else. But I think more than anything,
it gives you another option that the defense absolutely has
to respect and pay attention to. I think there are
some concerns about the spacing because Rezen's not a deep threat,
but I do think that, like especially we saw in
late game situations, teams would just like zero in on
Fox knowing that like that's where the ball's going, it's
Fox or mone Can you don't really have to guard
anyone else too close, And just one more especially late
game close situation option who is deadly efficient like that,
I think opens up a lot of possibilities in the
close game. I think that taking some of that pressure
off of Fox as being the guy who has to
save the team if they're down to like, that's a
huge help.
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 2: Do you think this totally anecdotal? De Martinson probably has
the prettiest jumper of anyone who sucks it hitting threes.
I'm just trying, like, who has like the esthetics on
their jumper like he does. That's not been a good
three point shooter.
Speaker 33: Ben Mackmore the most beautiful release I have ever and
he betrayed us. I mean, I've got that one off
the dome.
Speaker 2: But yeah, So when you look at though, the like
the the Big three trio, whatever you want to call it,
who do you think ends up having to make the
most adjustments? Though, because Derosen's in town, these ends are
might just be Derozane himself because he's the one joining
a new team. But whose game do you see being
having to adapt the most? Because of the way the
Kings are set up right now?
Speaker 33: I think it's gonna be interesting. I think it's actually
going to be fairly spread across all of them. I
think I think you're gonna see like Sabonas will probably
take fewer shots. Fox will probably take fear shots like
one can hurt her probably, you know, like if everyone's
taking a shot or two less per game, that gives
you the rozen shots, and he might be taking a
shot or too less than he did before as well.
I think it's gonna be kind of an impact across
the board, which could impact some of the counting stats,
and then people will be like, oh, look it's worse,
you know, but or it hurt this guy. But if
I had to focus on on one guy that I
think is kind of the obvious candidate who would be
negatively impacted at least in his role on offense, is
gonna be Kay Murray. Uh yeah. He kind of goes
from being you know, like the third or fourth option
to being the fourth or fifth option offensively, which I
think is a fair concern. But I also think that
it allows him to be opportunistic, and you know, that's
how they used him in his rookie year and he
was fantastic. Is just like all right, I can just
sit here and hit open threes when the defense forgets.
Speaker 4: About me, Like that's cool.
Speaker 33: Uh, and he obviously showed a lot of development in
his offense last year in ability to, you know, kind
of create his own shot. And I think long term,
getting to like learn from DeRozan and practice with him
every day and kind of see how he creates shots,
I think that would be beneficial long term. But I
think this season probably see a little step back at
least offensively from Katy Murray if you.
Speaker 2: Can't tell him still thinking a lot about this move
months later, What like the type of staggering patterns between
the top players would you anticipate to have, whereas I
I've even in terms of I initially thought, oh, well,
Fox might spend the most time independent of Sabonis and Derosen,
But then I'm like, eh, like you have the bonus
like monk chemistry, it will really be It'll really be
some bonus maybe independent too, Like what do you I'm
assuming there'll be some trial and error that they'll try
different stuff out, But if if you had to anticipate
anything on that front, what would it be?
Speaker 33: Yeah, that's gonna be the big question. I don't know
what that's gonna look like. Uh, you know, Mike Brown
was pretty rigid with his rotations last season, but the
Frozen's a pretty big piece to then work into those
and so I'm really curious to see how that staggering works.
I would not be surprised at all if we do
see kind of a stagger where when Fox is coming off,
Monk is going in especially earlier in games, because you know,
Monk can still move the ball around good good distributor,
but also a scoring through it. So I think that
those I think Fox and Monk will play sparingly together
throughout games, but will likely be in their late games. Still, yeah,
I'm very curious to see. I mean, I think the
tricky part is that right now you're kind of penciling
in Derozen as basically the small forward you know, in
the lineups, and they've got a lot of options that
can play one or two, and not a lot of
options at the three. So I don't know how much
the guard staggering is gonna impact or be tied to Deroze.
Speaker 2: But I wanted to ask you this because I dictate
too much of how the order of events goes on
these podcasts. What is the single biggest storyline development whatever
that you will be monitoring with this team into next
season yeah.
Speaker 34: And I hate to do this because I think Spurs
fans are probably tired of me talking about Devin Vessel
a little bit. But I really want to see does
Devin Vessel have that next little bit in the tank
to make a jump to be something like a Chris
Middleton to Janna Santetokombo, right, Like, does he have that
in him to be that caliber of player?
Speaker 35: Right?
Speaker 34: Obviously the Spurs would have to have a lot better
players around them to win a championship. But can he
be the equivalent of what Chris Middleton has been for Giannis,
especially when they were competing and when they ultimately and
it won that twenty twenty one titles at the right year?
Speaker 22: Sometimes, I you know, forget the years off the top
of my head, but can he do that?
Speaker 34: Like, does he have the you know, I guess, the skill,
the bandwidth to be able to make that next jump?
And I think he does. I think he might, but
it's yet to be seen, right, It's it's yet to
be seen. But I think he showed a lot of
promising signs last season. I think he's somebody we're going
to talk about. But for me, that's what I'm monitoring
because I think, aside from Chris Paul really benefiting when
Binyama and a lot of the other shooters on this team,
he's probably gonna benefit, you know, Devin Vessel long term
as well, Like I think he can learn a lot
from Chris Paul.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, let's talk about you know, I love
Devin Vessel. I thought he improved incrementally basically across the
board last year. And because it wasn't a monster leap
in any one area under the radar, I thought the
handle was better. We've talked about his defense in the past.
I thought that was better. I think a part of
that is Victor Wambayama exists, so that just makes things
yeah on everybody. And then just like even if the
efficiency was down in some areas, the level of shots
that he is capable of taking and making now, like
if you rewind back to his rookie season, I don't
know if I ever would have predicted that he got
to this point. And so I have two main questions
on this, But I guess the first one is, so
if he's going to make that leap too, we call
it the Chris Middleton like status. But just like, oh
number two guy on a contender. What is it that
you're looking to see him improve upon or or develop
what area most?
Speaker 22: Yeah, I think he's got to continue to get to
the rim more often.
Speaker 34: Like he upped his rim volume last season, and he
also significantly raised his filgal percentage inside the paint and
inside the restricted area, Like that was huge, but the
volume wasn't raised that much, right, Like, he was getting
there a little bit more and he was way more efficient.
Now can he get there a lot more and main
that efficiency and then can he get to the line
a little bit more? Like can he get to the
line a little bit more? Can he leverage now getting
to the rim more often to create for his teammates
a little bit more? Because he did what I think
he had like about three three and a half assists
per game last season. Most of those were pretty rudimentary reads.
It wasn't anything, you know, too advanced.
Speaker 22: It was like he was hitting guys who were you know,
a man away, or he's hitting the roller with you know.
Speaker 34: A pocket pass occasionally. It wasn't anything that you're like, Wow,
this guy's really like capable of carrying an offense for
a long time. It was more like, yeah, he can
make the right pass when that presents itself, and I
think all of those things kind of culminating together.
Speaker 22: Can that happen? That's I think that's my big question.
Can that happen?
Speaker 34: Because I think that's what needs to happen for him
to take that next step in his progression to becoming
that All star caliber player who can be maybe a
number two to winm bin Yama.
Speaker 2: And I'm wondering if just bi organically proving the space
same because Victor Wimanyama is better, you have Harrison Barnes
who's at least more of a threat from beyond the arc,
if that allows him to get to the rim more
because it feels like sometimes I just feel like he
bails out on his drives and might prefer the mid
range look, but other times it's just kind of like, well,
you look at the way the defenses are guarding the
spurs and that's why he gets rid of the ball.
Like his I think his past percentage on drives was
absurd last year. It's like forty percent or something ridiculous
like that. And so I'm just wondering if the floor
being more open, if that helps him get to the basket.
But he has always had that element of his game
where it does feel like his drives or just you know,
when he's on the ball, like it might stall out
before it has to, like he might settle before he
needs to.
Speaker 34: Yeah, and I definitely think that he's limited in some way.
And I like the Chris Middleton compareson that I threw
out there. I'm not saying that's like a one for one.
They're definitely not the same player. But as far as
like biomechanically, they don't have a ton of wiggle, right,
they don't have a ton of bursts. They rely on pace,
change of pace. You know, a lot of their you know,
pull ups are like those one two dribble pull ups.
They're not really like East and West guys. They're north south.
And even in being north south, they're not truly like blowby.
That's not who they are. They're going to beat you
being patient, They're going to get to their spot, They're
going to create space with a couple dribbles, and then
they're going to rise. So like, I think that's definitely
a limiting factor for him, like that he's never i think,
going to be a better athlete than he is right now.
I mean, he's not getting younger. Nobody else in the
league is getting younger, right like, so I think that's
a limiting factor for him, But I still don't think
that it is such a limiting.
Speaker 22: Factor that he can't take another step.
Speaker 34: Like we've seen players who are not necessarily the best
athletes adjust, whether it's you know, adding a little bit
of muscle to their frame, you know, being a little
bit more patient, using a change.
Speaker 22: Of pace, you know, ball fakes like I just want
to see can he do that.
Speaker 34: I'm not one hundred percent sure I think he can,
but again, it's yet to be seen and we'll just
have to wait till next season when he's out on
the court and potentially having better spacing.
Speaker 22: Could that help him?
Speaker 34: Yeah, I think it could help him, But in the
same breath, I don't know that it's going to be
that much better. I think it really depends on who's
around him, who ends up being the starters.
Speaker 2: And how do you think role if at all, And
I'm assuming it will will change with Chris Paul in
San Antonio now because I think the burden on him
gets less and I think Chris Paul like did a
better job last year. Maybe getting off the ball like
more quickly than we're used to, but like relative to
Trey Jones and theory, if Chris Paul's running your offense,
he's a lot of times not gonna get off the
ball as quickly as a trade Jones. And so what
does that maybe do to I don't want to say
like necessarily his usage rape, but the type of usage
we're gonna see from Devin Vasselle next season.
Speaker 34: Yeah, I think maybe we'll see a lot more catch
and shoot opportunities for a guy like Devin vessel I
know they gave him a lot of freedom, like a
longer leash to be this guy who can create off
the dribble a little bit. And so even though I said,
you know, he's not really an East to West guy,
they definitely let him occasionally pound the air out of
the rock. I don't think we're gonna see that next
season so much. I think it is gonna be a
lot more of those okay catch if a guy's closing
out too hard, one to dribble pull up, like, I
think we're gonna see a lot more of that out
of Devin vassell than like, hey, Dev, like when Vic
is not the game with you, we're gonna ask you
to do a lot more like I don't think he's
going to be asked to.
Speaker 22: Do quite as much on ball creation as he was
a year ago.
Speaker 34: So I'm not one hundred percent sure that's going to
be a case, but that certainly feels like that's what's
going to end up happening.
Speaker 22: Especially you would have to assume Chris Paul's starting.
Speaker 34: He already said like, I'm I didn't come to San
Antonio to just be a mentor and come off the bench,
like we know he's probably gonna be starting from day one.
Speaker 2: Look, he's already putting more pressure on them than Wemby
ever has this question because I know this is actually
your first look ahead that you've done with us, But
I dictate too much of the terms of this podcast.
So I've been asking everyone, and this team fascinates me
from this professor perspective, because I don't know what your
answer is going to be, and I pride myself from
kind of like being able to telegraph the answer is
going to be. What is the Raptor's biggest storyline that
you're going to be tracking throughout this season?
Speaker 5: Hmmm.
Speaker 35: So I think initially when I'm gonna cheat, I'm gonna
talk myself into the answer, and I'll give small answers
until I figure it out. So I think the initial
for one is like the fifth starter because they pay
a lot for their starting lineup. Yakapertle has a full contract,
a full fat contract. Emmanuel Quickly full fat contract, Argibert
full fat contract, Scottie Barnes not yet, it's like ten
point five this year, but it becomes full fat contract.
Speaker 14: It's fined, you sealed deliver.
Speaker 6: Grady Deveon o Chai.
Speaker 35: It leans one way if you're you want to be
future facing. But Grady and I've watched camp. I was
in Montreal with them. I watched the preseason game. There's
a lot of things that have been going well for him,
and his teammates are allotting his effort, but he's the
defense is not really there yet, so there's things you
could go another way. That's the first thing. But the
overall storyline is I think similar to what a lot.
Speaker 15: Of superstars, not stars superstars.
Speaker 14: Go through is year three, year four.
Speaker 35: You start seeing how far cisfis can push the boulder
up the hill, and that's kind of what I'm focusing
on because I think Scotty.
Speaker 2: Determines the ceiling of this team right, because.
Speaker 14: You look at it like RJ.
Speaker 35: Emmanuel, you'll get Grady. The guys who are considered have
higher potential on this team. Which of those guys could
take the number one spot? None really and I hate
doing the number one, number two, number three thing, but
which of them could take the number two spot?
Speaker 14: That's also pretty murky.
Speaker 35: So Scotty solidifying that ceiling is like, Okay, we have
a one, where we have a two, and then we
can build out from there, easy pasy. That has to
be determined. That helps set the ceiling and the flour
of this team, and it's by far the most important
thing that can keep happening because stars are important in
the NBA.
Speaker 6: As it turns out, you know.
Speaker 2: I haven't given that much thought because I just assume
I try to find first, I try to find synonyms
so I don't have to use the best player on
the best team, like the guiding light for this rebuild
fields Like it's clearly Scotty, I haven't really thought about, well,
do they have the number two in place? And so
if I'm forcing you to choose, do you one think
that they do potentially have the second best player on
the next really good iteration of the Raptors. And if
they do, is it more likely to be RJ Barrett
or Manuel quickly? Is they're a dark horse in there.
We're not talking Jamal Sheed is coming in hot.
Speaker 35: Jamal shed is coming in hot, but not for the
not for the second best player on the team. Actually,
I think I go against the grain here because everybody
was really excited for IQ right after the trade, and
I held on to the like the RJ thing and
it went really well, and IQ the defense didn't really
come out in the wash that everyone ooh, he's clever
off ball. I've completely I don't care if anybody ever
tells me again that a guard is like a clever
off ball guy, I don't care anymore. Like it doesn't
I feel like that people just say that hoping that
you haven't watched the guard and that you know.
Speaker 2: Are you anti shake Gilich is Alexander? Is this like
are well?
Speaker 35: Because Shay does a lot of other things. He scores
thirty points per game. You know he can be overrated
on defense. That's fine or underrated, it isn't It doesn't
matter but IQ the defense didn't come out in the wash,
the lower pickup point on the jumper, the slower release,
the want to always go right into a jumper.
Speaker 6: I think that kind of stuff limited.
Speaker 14: His ability to scale.
Speaker 35: We'll see if he's able to overcome that stuff. But
RJ just started scaling, like he climbed the wall. He
was like, yep, I'm first man over boom. He went
for it, and rjie. I think there's a lot of
stuff that he can clean up, and I think there's
still a lot of stuff he can add to his game.
And he has a willingness, you know. I wrote this
in the piece where I talked about his cutting, you know,
to punch the a gap like a full back. And
I love his willingness to get in there. And it's
kind of like that that power forward thing where so
many power forwards of the past who used to chip
in like twelve or fourteen points a game just by
being gritty, being in the right spot, and being comfortable
with physicality. ARJ kind of does that from the two
or the three. So he finds his way to impact
and they have to figure out how to make it
easier on the other side of the four for him,
but Emmanuel wasn't good either, So I think very long answer.
I think RJ is more likely to be the two. However,
I think it's more likely that RJ is a three.
Speaker 2: So then your asumption would be, like, this team probablys
to go out and find at some point.
Speaker 35: Yeah, at some point. So if guiding light is one,
what is the synonym for two? Supplementary light?
Speaker 2: You light the backdrop. I have no idea we're really
to sit in them for the number two. I've been
asking everyone this, but from what you kind of said
at the top, it makes you think that the answer
could be sort of a default. Is the biggest storyline
you're tracking for this team, Like how does it get
to the bottom spot that it wants when you look
at the coach that they have, and then even some
of just the talent that I would say is outsized
relative to those like Halvy Marketing and Clarkston and Sexton
and even someone like Kessler, and potentially if Taylor Hendrix
gets even better from last year, or is there something
else that's like kind of the biggest storyline you'll be
looking at.
Speaker 36: Yeah, So that's a great question, and I mean the
obvious answer is, yes, right, Like I think that that's fascinating,
you know, because and I'll tell you why. I watched
the Jazz on Tuesday night against the Sacramento Kings, and
both of those teams play a regular NBA game. They played,
you know, their regular rotation all forty eight minutes, both
of them.
Speaker 5: They both played hard. You know, they weren't. It wasn't
like Denver last night on Thursday night. I'm sure you.
Speaker 36: Watched the game, but you know, we love Nicola Yokis,
but he was doing cardio out there. He was just
on a treadmill out there. And it wasn't that between
the Jazz and Kings on Tuesday. That was a real
NBA game. And you know that forty eight minutes that
I was watching the Jazz, the only thought I had
was on my god, this team can win thirty eight games.
That was literally the only you know. I mean, I
tweeted it. I'm sure you saw the tweet, but I like,
I tweeted it, and I was just like, yeah, this
team can win thirty five to thirty eight games as is,
and you know that's probably twelve to fifteen games too many, right, So.
Speaker 5: You know, I think one of the things that you
know you could count on is that this.
Speaker 36: Version of the Western Conference that we're about to walk
into this year is really deep and really good. So
somebody has to lose games, and you know, paper dictates
that it's probably the Jazz and the Portland Trailblazers.
Speaker 5: But man, you know, when you have Mark and you
have Sexton and you.
Speaker 36: Have Kiante George, I think Kyante George looks a lot better,
and you have Taylor Hendrix at the four and Walker
Kessler at the five, like, there's a lot of size
and there's a lot of length, and you know there's
you know, dynamic ball.
Speaker 5: In handling in in Colin Sexton, and there's just there's
just a lot to work with there.
Speaker 36: And the Jocks are gonna lose games, you know, because
they're not on paper as good on paper it is
about probably around at least ten to eleven other teams
in the Western Conference. But you know the fact that
they play hard from that to night, the fact that
they're not going to be a pushover, it leads me
to believe, you know, how does this team get to
twenty five wins? You know, it's like, so you know,
if I'm dubbing the Utah Jazz this season, and how
do you hustle in reverse? Right, Like, how do you
how do you take a team that's probably too talented
for twenty five wins and get it to twenty five wins?
Speaker 5: And I think that that's probably a fascinating thing to watch.
Speaker 2: It seems like if they end up being not even
better than expected but on pace for too many wins
or like I think the biggest mistake some teams make
or maybe it's not a mistake, but they're they're hesitant
to do something substantial earlier in the season, whether it's
beginning kind of the minutes, management for veterans or making trades.
Does this do you think this front office is committed
to the point that, Okay, I like the Jazz come
out like absolutely on fire again or something that they'll
start making some decisions we would normally see in December, January,
February before then.
Speaker 36: Yeah, that'll be interesting to see because you know, this
front office typically doesn't make decisions, drastic roster decisions until February.
Speaker 5: You know, there are some exceptions.
Speaker 36: In twenty nineteen, there was the Jordan Clarkson trade for
Dante ExHAM and that changed the jazz quite a bit.
Also in twenty nineteen, they cut Jeff Green pretty much
in the middle of a road trip, so you know,
that was that was an exception. But you know, on
a norm, mostly on the norm, you know, they take
the first few months and then they assess and then
they kind of go from there, you know, in you know,
the last two the last two seasons, you know, they
kind of pulled the plug around the All Star break
and you know that was it. March was you know,
just kind of, hey, we're just gonna lose as much
as possible, and you know so, but I mean the
thing that stands out to me is that, you know,
even deep into their roster, I mean, there are a
lot of guys that this team wants to develop, and
I think that that's atypical from where we were last year,
in the in the year before.
Speaker 5: Right. So let's say you're sitting your regulars.
Speaker 36: Right in you know, even at the end of the roster,
you know, you want to develop Kyle Philipowski, or you
want to develop or you want to see you know,
how Bright sense the ball, you know, handles thirty five minutes,
or you want to see how Cody Williams handled thirty
five minutes.
Speaker 5: I think one of the things that will helped the
Jazz hustle and reverse.
Speaker 36: Is, you know, you play Cody Williams a lot of minutes,
even with the regular rotation. You know, you play Isaiah
Collier a lot of minutes. And I think Isaiah Callier
right now if the season started today, and it won't
start today, but it will.
Speaker 5: Start in ninety six hours.
Speaker 36: That or one hundred and twenty hours that you know,
he would be the primary backup point guard. So you
know it will be it's gonna be really interesting to see,
you know, how the Jazz mesh their veterans versus how
they bring along and develop their young guys. You know,
how many minutes does Jordan Clarkson play from night to night?
How many minutes does John Collins play from night to
night even though he's probably not gonna start to at
least to begin the season.
Speaker 5: You know, So how does all of that stuff work?
Speaker 2: What is the biggest Wizard storyline that you were going
to be tracking most closely into this season and throughout it?
Speaker 37: Of course hashtag capture the Flag, Like that's what we
got to do this year? Here, we got to beat
out Brooklyn or whoever else wants to be real bad.
Speaker 14: Like, that's what this.
Speaker 37: Entire season is about for the Wizards, is they've got
some nice developmental pieces. Like I'm higher than lit bally
higher on him than most I would say probably at
this point, and so are like, you know, whatever you
take from Summer League, let's say you take nothing from it.
He's still like is the guy you look at as like, oh,
this is a future, like you know, star of the franchise.
Like I don't know, I think he's the ceiling. Is
probably a pretty good starter and versatile guy that every
winning team needs.
Speaker 6: Like that's great.
Speaker 37: Is bub you know, the next Baron Davis or somebody
like you know, I don't know what the ceiling is
for someone like him, but probably not to me. I
think he's like another really nice piece. So I think
this upcoming draft is like the one you have to
star hunt in, like whoever you can get wherever you
can get it in the draft, whoever has like the
most star potential of any of them, swing as big
as you can because they don't have that guy yet.
To me, uh so that's what I'd be using this
draft for. So you just can't afford to have like
twenty five wins this year and end up with a
seventh pick or something like that.
Speaker 2: How do you you would throw through the lens of
we're now in year what I feels like, I don't know.
At least you're five right of the flatt and lottery odds.
Now that impact your like view it all of the
value of being like, Okay, you can be a bottom
four team, sure, and there's pretty clear pathway to do
that because fourteen of the teams in the West aren't
currently trying to lose, But like there feels like there's
almost a trade off where it's like, well, what cost
do you need to do that? Because a fourteen percent
chance isn't all that much, and then you have at
least you have three other teams that have the same
chance of getting it. So it was always you're always
more likely not to get the first the number one
overall pick, which was true beforehand, but those odds have
been substantially shortened over the past half decade or whatever
it is.
Speaker 37: Like, I think Cooper Flagg will be a really good
player just from what I've seen, but I think there's
some other good pieces in this so it's just lock
yourself into like a top five pick.
Speaker 10: That's that's the move.
Speaker 37: You know, if you can get the number one pick up, great,
but can you get VJ. Edgecomb at five or one
of those kind of guys, like that might be enough
for Ace Bailey or whoever you decide, Dylan Harper, like
whoever the next couple guys are for you come draft night,
Like they've just got to do that one right and
kind of hit big on it, I think, regardless of
position or fit or of those kinds of things. And
like I get, like from the odds perspective, like it's
not as important to be the absolute worst team anymore,
but you've just got to ensure that you're in that
like tier of bottom couple of teams no matter what.
Speaker 2: And I think what you just said is that it's
not even just a perfect way. It was perfect, but
it's the only way to look at it if you're
going to go that route, is it's not just yeah,
it'd be great to get the number one pick, but
it's we want to lock ourselves into the top five
or whatever it is. And that makes more sense than
because it's what we're prepared to not have the number one,
the number two. Pick when it happens.
Speaker 37: Yeah, like your chances of getting up to number one,
you know, they are what they are, But like I'd
much rather be you know, two and fall to four
than seven and hope I can get up to one
or something like that.