WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:04.440 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, brothers, sisters, comrades, friends. As always, 2 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:07.400 I am glad to have you guys listening to me. 3 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:10.519 We have a special treat for you guys today that 4 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:12.960 I don't think I even really alluded to. I might 5 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:16.519 have mentioned it in maybe the pop Quiz episodes we 6 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:19.399 did recently. But before we get to that, I want 7 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:21.719 to give a quick shout out, as always to my 8 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:26.839 incredibly kind and generous supporters over on Patreon and substack, 9 00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:31.160 specifically those supporting at the executive producer level and above 10 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:35.439 my longtime supporters Mike Meyleman and John Andre Saither. I 11 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:38.079 can't tell you how much I appreciate you guys sticking 12 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:41.039 with me this long, and everybody else as well who 13 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:46.200 supports the show on Patreon and substack. Please feel free 14 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:50.000 to subscribe to either if you haven't already. There is 15 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:53.759 free stuff for the A lot of people jokingly call 16 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:55.880 them free loaders out there. I don't like saying that 17 00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:57.840 because I always feel a little bit guilty, but it's 18 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:01.920 still fun. But no free content and a lot of 19 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:05.879 exclusive content, and more than anything else that I can 20 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:10.359 hopefully use to persuade people to join up is these 21 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:14.519 are ad free episodes on Patreon and substack, whereas you 22 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:17.640 get you know, a pepperine of ads on the regular 23 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:22.439 feed on Spotify or Apple podcasts. But regardless, if you 24 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.760 haven't subscribed to History Impossible on substack or on Patreon, 25 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:29.640 please do so. Become a member and you know, show 26 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:32.519 your love if you can, with a couple bucks every month, 27 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:36.400 but even if you can't, that's totally fine. Please just 28 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:39.640 see this as a chance to, I don't know, spread 29 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:42.799 the word, you know, just let people know that History 30 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:45.560 Impossible is a thing and it's something they might like 31 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:47.640 if you think they might like it considering all the 32 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:51.400 stuff we get into here with this particular episode, like 33 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:53.040 I said, it's a bit of a treat. It was 34 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.480 a conversation that I had with longtime friend and mentor 35 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:00.920 Danielle Ballli, host of History on Fire, writer of many books, 36 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:03.200 pretty much a jack of all trades. 37 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:04.040 He actually has two. 38 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:07.879 Podcasts, in case you guys didn't know. His other first podcast, 39 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:10.639 Drunken Dawis, is actually one I've been on a couple times. 40 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:13.159 So if you miss those episodes, go check them out there, 41 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:15.639 but also just subscribe to that and History on Fire 42 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:18.800 if you somehow have not already. But Danielle has been 43 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:22.000 at this for actually over ten years now, this being 44 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:25.240 History podcasting, and he's been doing a lot of cool stuff. 45 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:28.639 He has some new projects, specifically one project I have 46 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:31.800 in mind that he has announced on The Drunken Taoist. 47 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:33.599 I don't think he's rolled it out yet, but he 48 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:35.479 is going to be covering the history of Rome in 49 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:39.800 a separate series from History on Fire. But I will 50 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:42.280 let him talk about that one day. I just wanted 51 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:44.199 to give you guys a sort of heads up on 52 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:47.439 what's going on with him too. But yes, this conversation 53 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:50.400 we had was all about what was about two things really, 54 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:52.919 well three things we were catching up for a fair 55 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:55.039 bit of it. We spent about fifteen minutes talking about 56 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:57.000 what he's been up to for the last couple of 57 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.719 years with his show and just in general. But we 58 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:04.080 also talked about one of our shared favorite stories, which 59 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:06.360 is the story of the Taiping Rebellion, and then from 60 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:08.840 there we use that as a sort of excuse to 61 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:15.000 talk about the revolutionary nature of Protestantism basically in global 62 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:17.719 history at this point, and the Typing Rebellion is probably 63 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:23.039 the best example of that. Potential. So it's a very 64 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:26.199 free wheeling conversation, much less structured than my usual interviews. 65 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:28.000 But that's just because Danielle and I have known each 66 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:30.639 other for a while and it was a lot of fun, 67 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:35.000 and we'll probably be doing something similar again in the 68 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:37.520 relatively near future. We always have stuff that we like 69 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:40.159 talking about, at least on the phone, and sometimes we're like, yeah, 70 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:42.919 this should probably be a podcast. So we're hopefully going 71 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:45.719 to get back to that sooner rather than later. But 72 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:51.080 in the meantime, sit back and please enjoy this conversation 73 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:53.240 about some impossible history. 74 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:55.360 I'll let me to tell you what you would have 75 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:58.400 seen and heard if we're not being pleasant listening, if 76 00:03:58.400 --> 00:03:59.759 you were at lunch, or if you have no. 77 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:01.319 App But I know it's a good time to switch 78 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:09.879 off the radio. An ancestor of mine maintained, if you 79 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:17.000 eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, Eva Russen Banji 80 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:20.079 out of it. You know, general one who knows that 81 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:25.759 I desire thou. I wish I could say tonight that 82 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.000 a lasting peace is inside. I don't feel an the 83 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:30.000 laughing dream. 84 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:39.199 I feel a laughing night wore. If we hearship to 85 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:40.160 guilt if. 86 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:41.279 We hear assure to guil. 87 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:45.879 Some say the world will end empire, Some stay Anie. 88 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:49.079 From what I've tasted of desire, I hold of those 89 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:52.439 of favor fire, But if it had to perish twice, 90 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:55.600 I think I know enough of hate to say that 91 00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:58.839 for destruction, ice is also great and would suffice. 92 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:07.800 This is History Impossible. 93 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:17.079 Well, like I said, guys, I'm here with longtime friend 94 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:21.399 of the show, something of a mentor to me, Danielle Bolelli, 95 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:25.000 host of History on Fire, writer of many awesome books. 96 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:28.720 I'm sure ninety nine percent of you know who he is, 97 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:32.600 know his work. But I'll just start by saying welcome 98 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:35.240 and thank you for coming on History Impossible again. 99 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:38.160 Thank you so much for having met. We are planning 100 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:42.639 on doing an outdoor recording, but the Ween today decided 101 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:45.040 that's not going to happen. So here we are. 102 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.839 Indoors, indeed, and we have power through outdoor recordings before, 103 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:51.720 at least on your show. I've been on it, and 104 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:55.040 it's been a while since we did a history collaboration. 105 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:59.160 Though I think we are planning on doing a little 106 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:01.079 bit of a something. I don't want to say much 107 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:04.639 that we did a little bit before I got another 108 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:06.120 rerun about like. 109 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:08.879 Not saying match we're said we used to. We did 110 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:11.040 an episode about video games in the past. 111 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:12.360 I don't want to ruin it. 112 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:17.680 It's fine, yeah, it's yeah. We way back when we 113 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:21.480 did an episode on historian video games for History on Fire, 114 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:25.199 but that was behind the paywall. I'm thinking of releasing 115 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:28.600 it again early next year, in twenty twenty six. However, 116 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:32.120 in the meantime, we've both played five thousand more video games, 117 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:34.480 so we should probably just re record it and do 118 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:35.680 an updated version. 119 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.879 That's right, because there I don't even know how many 120 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:41.639 history based video games have come out since then. I 121 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:42.519 mean it's been a lot. 122 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:45.279 It's been a lot, and good ones and better better 123 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:46.160 than before. 124 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.319 And who knows, maybe by the time we can get 125 00:06:49.399 --> 00:06:51.759 this next one out, a new Ghosts of Yota. 126 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:53.199 Game will be out, or exactly. 127 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:55.839 I mean, Danielle is playing Assassin's Creed Shadows right now, 128 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:59.199 which I have yet to try so pricisely what I'm doing. 129 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:02.839 So yeah, but we also have another thing that we 130 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:05.720 worked on together coming soon to your feed, which I 131 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:07.240 don't know if you want to spoil that one. 132 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:11.000 Oh yeah, sure, So that's the one episode that we 133 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:13.800 recorded in the past was actually that one. I think 134 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:18.120 you did the research for it. Yeah, and it's about 135 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:22.160 the Mafia during World War Two working with the Allies 136 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:27.399 supposedly maybe kind of. Yeah, and there's a whole story 137 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:27.800 about that. 138 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:29.319 I think. My favorite thing that I was able to 139 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:32.920 get you to do was to read the phonetic quotes 140 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:37.399 from Lucky Luciano. Oh yeah, of course, so is Danielle's 141 00:07:37.399 --> 00:07:39.879 best imitation of an Italian American mobs? 142 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:44.279 Yes, exactly, Well, basically a real life story to my own. 143 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:46.600 It's an autobiography. 144 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:50.040 Lucciano is a great character, I should say. I mean, 145 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:53.160 I'm I understand why you wouldn't, but I am still 146 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:56.240 I'm really wanting you to do some kind of proper 147 00:07:56.600 --> 00:08:00.920 biographical story about your favorite mob in the mind now. 148 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:04.639 I think I did for Patreon. I did just a 149 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:07.680 Patroon episode was shorter and it was a quicker episode. 150 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:10.519 But one that I had a blast doing was an 151 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.439 episode about the history of the Calton Club in New York. 152 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:17.360 That was like one of those clubs that central to 153 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:21.720 the jazz scene and it was a major mafia hangout. 154 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:24.959 There was a Francis for a couple of movie and 155 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:27.600 it was very good and I like it. Okay, I'm interested. 156 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:29.639 I'll check it out for myself because I haven't seen it. 157 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:31.920 I just heard that. I think it just did badly. 158 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:35.360 Yeah, it wasn't super popular, but it's actually a really 159 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:37.440 good movie, okay. I mean part of it is that 160 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:40.279 you're not following one character, You're fulling a bunch of 161 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:45.159 characters all revolving around this club. But the music is amazing. 162 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.679 Some of the stories are great. There's a couple of 163 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:54.159 lucky cameos that in there that are great. It's a 164 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:54.759 fun story. 165 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:57.120 Yeah, we got some of that stuff. And I don't 166 00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:59.000 know how much you watched a bit, but that amazing 167 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:03.159 show scores. It was behind called Boardwalk Empire. Yeah, like 168 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:06.000 lu in there. I mean the big guy who the 169 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:08.399 big mobster I should say, who sort of at the 170 00:09:08.600 --> 00:09:14.399 center of that story besides Nuki by Seucemi is Arnold 171 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:17.159 roth Sey. It was like a whole other amazing story, 172 00:09:17.240 --> 00:09:19.840 especially because it evolves baseball, you know. 173 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:22.960 I mean some of those guys are the Dutch Shultz 174 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:26.039 only mad then some of those guys were pretty wild 175 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:31.600 buggy seagull. Yeah, a lot of those. But I had 176 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:34.080 a blast because I mean, while I was talking about 177 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:37.480 that part, for sure, I was also just enjoyed doing 178 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:40.879 an episode about music, you know, really talking and because 179 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:43.879 it was behind the paywall, I could take because I'm 180 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:46.759 always sketchy about something that's it is on the main 181 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:49.879 feed regarding what legal and what's not. I think it's 182 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:53.080 legal to take small clips from songs that you're throwing 183 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:58.720 their own podcast. But still I like doing it as things. 184 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:02.720 So I could take you know, little cleep from you know, 185 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:08.039 Cab Callowe Orton. 186 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.720 Or some of the great You could play a lot 187 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:11.759 of that music. As long as you're talking about it, 188 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:14.759 you know, then you're good. But yeah, no, I I 189 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:17.919 there's so many great stories of I mean great and 190 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.679 tragic stories of musicians from that era that you could 191 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:23.480 also do, you know, stories about I don't think it 192 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:25.679 would end on such a downer, but if I remember right, 193 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:29.320 it's Sam Cook is the story I know about. But 194 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:34.240 that one just ends with the horrible tragical Yeah yeah, 195 00:10:34.759 --> 00:10:35.840 crazy musician stories. 196 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:38.879 Oh yeah, yeah, no, it's planting there's And I enjoyed 197 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:42.679 those because there are such great story in the history 198 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.320 of music and the lives of musician and all of 199 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:46.200 that but. 200 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:52.159 At the same time, I'm like so not into music biopics, 201 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:55.159 Like I didn't see a complete Unknown. I've heard it's good. 202 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:58.759 I was never a giant I'm not a giant Dylan fan, 203 00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:01.519 but I heard it's good. But I just don't really 204 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:04.480 care all that much about that, and I'll check it 205 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:07.440 out one day. But honestly, it just kind of peaked 206 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:10.159 with Walk the Line, which was probably the best one 207 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:12.960 because sort of the legit singing that was happening in 208 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:15.159 it by Walking Phoenix and Rees with her spooning. That 209 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:17.399 was pretty cool. But at the end of the day, 210 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:21.879 the music biopic almost always has the exact same plot 211 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:25.279 arc sure, it's the musician doing better, better, better, better 212 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:27.000 than he has a big fall off, usually because of 213 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:30.799 drugs or a woman, and then he builds himself back 214 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.519 up again, usually from the inspiration of another woman or 215 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:36.120 the woman that he burned, and that's just, you know, 216 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:38.639 the way it always goes. That's why the John c 217 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:42.039 Riley movie Walk Hard Story is so good. 218 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:44.360 No, that's why I think sometimes maybe the movies are 219 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:49.639 not the best medium for it. Uh huh. I think, well, 220 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:52.799 it depends. Some are like one that I deeply enjoyed, 221 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:54.240 and then I swear we're going to get to a 222 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:56.879 point of this episode about like one that I we'll 223 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:00.080 just catching up. He enjoyed is a movie called The 224 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:01.120 Cadillac Records. 225 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:02.639 Oh that was a great one. 226 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:07.039 Yeah, fantastic movie about the early blues. Yeah, you know, 227 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.320 Muddy Water, so Howling Wold Facta James, all of that. 228 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:14.559 It was the movie that proved to me that Beyonce 229 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:15.320 I could act. 230 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:18.039 And can sing. Because the thing is, when I listened 231 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:21.879 to Beyond Beyonce, I'm not exactly the target for like 232 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:25.120 her music. It's fine for what it does, it's not 233 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:28.039 my thing. But besides that, it's like, it doesn't really 234 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:30.759 make her voice shine. But when she's imitating her, when 235 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:34.120 she's doing Ata James, she's amazing. You're like, how the 236 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:37.759 hell have I not ever heard her voice sound like this? 237 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.919 Because it's beyond amazing. But when I listened to the 238 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:45.039 music she makes, I'm like, cool, it doesn't valorize her 239 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:45.960 voice at all. 240 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.159 What makes me laugh really hard about that too, is 241 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:54.159 that Eda James, always the perpetually grouchy lady, hated Beyond 242 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:57.080 this performance because of course she did. Yeah, but there's 243 00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.600 a scene in that movie, which was like sort of 244 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:02.840 the last big film I remember Adrian Brody being up 245 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:05.639 until just last year, I guess, which I haven't seen 246 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:08.279 The Brutalist yet, but I planned to at some point. 247 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:13.240 But yeah, he played the head of talent the records, 248 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:15.720 and he and Da James apparently had a thing. And 249 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:18.440 there's a scene where she's singing I'd Rather Go Blind, 250 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:20.919 and it's like a very moving scene with them saying 251 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:23.320 goodbye to each other without saying it, and it's just 252 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:27.440 such a great scene. And yeah, maybe that actually is 253 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:29.639 a really good example of a counter example what I 254 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:30.120 was just saying. 255 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:32.919 That music, but it's not about one chiroc. 256 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:36.799 Yeah, it's about it's about a movement. It's about Motown. 257 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:39.360 It's a birth of Motown, which is incredible. Yeah, And 258 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:42.000 I think something like that is really interesting. I mean, 259 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.600 you could do a anyone could do a history podcast 260 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:49.080 about the grunge scene or the punk scene, and they've 261 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:51.080 done it. I mean I've seen, I've I've heard some 262 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:53.519 good podcasts out there that do music history. 263 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:58.279 Especially one that I badly want to do is about 264 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:03.600 the but the Holy and Richie Valence, who died on 265 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:06.279 the same plane crash right on the same day, and 266 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:09.559 so they were like two of the early rock and 267 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:14.039 roll icons, and yet they were like, you know, on paper, 268 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:16.399 they should have never gone anywhere because but they only 269 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.559 looked like the biggest nerd on the planet. Richie Valence 270 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.480 was a guy who was you know, his biggest hit 271 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:25.559 was in Spanish in the nineteen fifties. That's not a 272 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:29.480 very welcome thing. So neither one should have made it. 273 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:32.240 They both made it huge. They were both really young, 274 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:35.440 incredibly talented, and both died on the same day, and 275 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:37.720 so it was like, yeah, so that would be a 276 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.519 story that interested me about the birth of rock and roll. 277 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:44.120 They unlikely rise to fame. I think at some point 278 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:45.240 I would love to do that one. 279 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:47.720 Yeah, you could get conspiratorial, though, and do a whole 280 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:49.960 thing about how not only do rock stars altend to 281 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.320 die at the age of twenty seven, but that there 282 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:54.120 seems to be a lot of really bad luck with 283 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.360 musicians and planes happened to Alia back whenever. That was 284 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.799 early two thousands, And I don't mean to make light 285 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:04.000 of it. I'm just saying it's very weird that that 286 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.840 just happens, seems to happen so often. Yeah, So I 287 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:10.279 mean that that was sort of I just I'm fine 288 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.080 with just doing a tangent like that. I just kind 289 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:13.639 of wanted this to be a little bit loose but 290 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:16.720 before we get into more structured stuff. But I guess, yeah, 291 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:19.519 because so people somehow who don't know what have you 292 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:21.559 been up to? Because I mean you kind of for 293 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:24.799 people who didn't join the Luminary band wagon, you kind 294 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:26.039 of dropped off for a little bit. 295 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:28.679 What happened? So I yeah, you know, I did Easter 296 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:32.960 on Fire for about four some years, initially between twenty 297 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:38.360 fifteen twenty nineteen. Then I got the ungodly good contract 298 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:41.600 from LUMINARII to put me behind the paywall. Mostly I 299 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:44.200 was still doing I had my Dank carling close, so 300 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:47.200 I was doing like two episodes per a year, three 301 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:50.399 so that people still know that I existed, but a 302 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:53.759 whole bunch who are behind the paywall. Then in I 303 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:56.480 think must have been twenty twenty one or twenty two 304 00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.639 something like that, I came out of the contract and 305 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:04.440 just releasing episode again. And then I'm in addition to 306 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:08.399 releasing new episodes, I'm regaining the rights to those episodes 307 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:12.080 and releasing those as well. So these days, the history 308 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:16.559 on fire feed is a mix of rerands, which realistically 309 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:19.600 only a tiny portion of my audience I've heard, so 310 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:21.799 for them it might as well be the first time 311 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:25.879 they hear it, and then new content, and so that's 312 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:28.679 kind of what I've been doing with eastery on fire. 313 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:30.679 Well. I really like the one that you, I think 314 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:33.200 just put out the first part of a rerun of 315 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:36.759 a story that it's just a great story of itself 316 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:41.200 about the free state of Fume under Gabrielle de Nuncio, 317 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:46.200 the ultimate warrior poet who apparently because I actually had 318 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:51.399 to read about him for my class in grad school, 319 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:56.320 and Danielle can tell you that I was basically live 320 00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:59.759 texting him as I was reading it, being like, who 321 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:02.000 does this author? They think she is calling him a 322 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:05.799 proto fashions? It's not that, but to her credit, I'm 323 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:07.119 like it on her name, but that's okay. 324 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:09.079 She was not saying that. 325 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:11.839 She was actually saying it's too simplistic to say that 326 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.960 the Nunzio was this early version of fascism, but we 327 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:19.799 can't pretend that he didn't have an influence absolutely. Benita 328 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:23.519 Mussolini did a sort of cheap cover band version. 329 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:28.279 Of pretty much a rock star. So Maussolini was like, 330 00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:31.039 I want to look cool like him, and so Pulpy. 331 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:35.000 Exactly. Yeah, so you have part two of that coming 332 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:37.519 out soon, I believe. But and actually what we're going 333 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:40.279 to mostly focus on today is another rerun that you did, 334 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:42.720 but you've also been doing the new episodes. Like keeve 335 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:46.319 been saying, I particularly enjoyed the Genpay War that you 336 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:48.920 did WITS in a way. It's kind of a prequel 337 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.920 to Ghost of Sushima. Funny enough timeline wise at least. 338 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:55.039 But yeah, there there's a lot of other good ones 339 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:58.559 out there that you did. I really recommend people who 340 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.799 if they haven't listened to it, check out the insanely 341 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:07.400 brutal two parter you did about the death squads down 342 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:09.400 in Salvador. 343 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:09.640 Yeah. 344 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:11.960 That's pretty rough, Yes, but you do hear about a 345 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:15.480 very saintly figure in the first episode, which is pretty amazing. 346 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:16.839 I don't want to spoil too much of it, but 347 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.839 Oscar Romero. Yeah, and it's it's a very good story 348 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:25.160 because it reveals that the effects of I guess we 349 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:28.640 could just broadly say American imperialism doesn't really matter who's empowered. No, 350 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:32.960 not at all because the essentibly nicest ex president that 351 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:35.480 we've ever had, at least in our lifetimes. Yeah, Jimmy 352 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:39.279 Carter h just as complicit as Ron Reagan in a 353 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:39.920 lot of ways. 354 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:44.079 Yeah, it's always said there's a difference between evil and 355 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:47.200 evil to the tenth power, you know, noise like Carter 356 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.440 was bad in that regard, and Regan of course was 357 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.880 one hundred times wars. Yeah, you know, so it's kind 358 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:55.720 of like it's not that there are yeah, that there's 359 00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:58.559 a good US foreign policy there, they're just a bad 360 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.920 US foreign policy. You're a horrible uant. 361 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:01.400 Right. 362 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.240 For a bit, I had this thought, and I think 363 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:06.119 we might have talked about this at one point where 364 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:08.680 I was thinking like, okay, so the fact that Carter 365 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:10.680 was more of a hypocrite is what rubs me the 366 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:12.839 wrong way about it. But then it makes me think 367 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:15.559 of the very classic moment Norm MacDonald had where he 368 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:18.960 was in the car with Jerry Seinfeld doing that show 369 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:21.759 and he was saying, well, you know, I'm not heard 370 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:25.400 Patton Oswald say that the worst thing about the revelations 371 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:28.799 about Bill Cosby was the hypocrisy. I thought it was 372 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:33.279 the rape eat exactly. Yeah, So yeah, at the end 373 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:35.160 of the day, I think it just matters what's bad. 374 00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:38.160 Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah yeah, yeah. 375 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.440 So yeah that as brutal as that story is, I 376 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:44.240 think it's a very good story for people to learn about, 377 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:48.359 to learn about in only a tiny corner of I mean, 378 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:51.240 it's just a tiny example of like the horrible things 379 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:54.519 that have happened in Latin America essentially on our watch 380 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:56.839 or due to our support, Yeah, which has been going 381 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.599 on for over one hundred years, as people will have 382 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:02.000 problemrobably no doubt read or heard on my own podcast. 383 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:03.680 I'm going to be doing the thing about the Banana 384 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:08.000 Wars suit and Smedley Butler, who was affected by those but. 385 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:10.000 Oh yeah, I'm pretty too sure. I'm going to do 386 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:15.160 both him as a character and also Guatemala, which is 387 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.640 at the center off That's. 388 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:20.960 Right, Well, he was, he was everywhere. That's the thing 389 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:21.720 about Butler. 390 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:27.599 He was in fact, that's about him specifically, and one 391 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:31.039 about the Queen Guatemala in Yet fifty three, Yes, because 392 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:33.079 that was the Yeah, well that is also connected to 393 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:35.799 the rise of globalization with with the United Fruit. 394 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:37.880 I mean, that's a whole other, very interesting. 395 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:39.279 Rabbit hole to go down. 396 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:43.079 Actually, I found. I am gonna pat myself on the back. 397 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:46.720 I'm really good at transitions, because here's a transition. Smedley 398 00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:49.759 Butler was not only stationed all over Central America, he 399 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.599 was stationed in China during the Boxer Rebellion, which is 400 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:54.079 not we're gonna be talking about, but we're gonna be 401 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:56.640