Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
Speaker 1: where we left off with the Leslie Groff transcript from
Speaker 1: her interview with Congress, and now we have mister Lynch
Speaker 1: asking the questions. Okay, ms Groff, thank you for your
Speaker 1: willingness to be interviewed. You said early in the Republican
Speaker 1: Hour that your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein you really didn't
Speaker 1: have a relationship, You wouldn't call it a relationship. And
Speaker 1: you said in this hour that he basically kept you
Speaker 1: on the outside and you didn't have a connection with him.
Speaker 1: I want to refer to a New York Times article
Speaker 1: on February fifth, two thousand and five, if co Council
Speaker 1: wants copies of that, I made some mister Wickham is
Speaker 1: the word brain in there, mister Lynch, Sorry, there are
Speaker 1: some others here if staff wants them. Mister adapted and sir,
Speaker 1: if you will hold on, we will enter this as
Speaker 1: minority Exhibit B. Mister Lynch, this is an New York
Speaker 1: Times article February fifth, two thousand and five by Lyndon
Speaker 1: Thomas Junior, and it sounds like they interviewed both of
Speaker 1: you and Jeffrey Epstein in the article. I'll just go
Speaker 1: to the bottom paragraph which is highlighted. This is an article,
Speaker 1: the title of which is working for Top Bosses on
Speaker 1: Wall Street has its perks. When it comes to discussing
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, it says, then there's the case of Jeffrey Epstein,
Speaker 1: who pays his three executive assistants more than two hundred
Speaker 1: thousand a year. It goes on to say a finance
Speaker 1: here who they manage his executive his three women executive team,
Speaker 1: which manages his hectic life to go globe trotting and
Speaker 1: hobnobbing with the likes of former President Bill Clinton. It
Speaker 1: goes on to say, on the next page, he calls them,
Speaker 1: meaning his you as part of his executive team, a
Speaker 1: social prostesis. So something attached the limb of who he is,
Speaker 1: with an intuitive knowledge of his manifold needs and a
Speaker 1: twenty four hour presence that make them virtually indispensable to
Speaker 1: his personal and business success, he said. It goes on
Speaker 1: to say, again referring to you and the other two assistants,
Speaker 1: they are an extension of my brain. Said mister Ebstein,
Speaker 1: who rarely talks publicly. Their intuition is something that I
Speaker 1: don't have. It goes with more some details than it
Speaker 1: goes on to say. The reporter says, when one of them,
Speaker 1: Leslie Groff, who was thirty eight, became pregnant last year
Speaker 1: and talked of leaving, he bought her a Mercedes Benz
Speaker 1: E three twenty to make her commuting easier and agreed
Speaker 1: to pay for a full time nanny so that she
Speaker 1: could keep working for him. And then there's a quote
Speaker 1: here by mister Epstein. There's no way I could lose
Speaker 1: Leslie in a motherhood, said mister Ebstein, who is nearly
Speaker 1: in his who is in his early fifties, and as
Speaker 1: a bachelor. Going further to just the last page, the
Speaker 1: last page, the third paragraph from the bottom. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: let's go to the last two lines here, the last
Speaker 1: two paragraphs. Miss Groff said that she thought both she
Speaker 1: and miss Lee, one of them the other two executive assistants,
Speaker 1: were worth the price.
Speaker 2: Here's the quote.
Speaker 1: This is from you. It comes down to the bond,
Speaker 1: said miss Groff, a graduate of the University of Texas,
Speaker 1: who's been with mister Epstein four or four years. A
Speaker 1: further quote by you. I know what he's thinking, and
Speaker 1: I know when I need to be fast. It's a
Speaker 1: nice role that we're on. Now, that's what the reporter
Speaker 1: said that you said. Have you ever requested or adaction
Speaker 1: or recanted any of this that was printed in the
Speaker 1: New York Times? Mis Groff, No, Lynch, you haven't disputed
Speaker 1: that Graff. No, Lynch. It makes it hard to believe
Speaker 1: that there's no connection when he's talking about you as
Speaker 1: part of him and a prosthesis, and you know, part
Speaker 1: of his operation. And how long did you work for
Speaker 1: mister Epstein beginning to end Groff February of two thousand
Speaker 1: and one to July of twenty nineteen. Mister Lynch, So
Speaker 1: eighteen years? Is that correct, miss Groff, Yes, question by
Speaker 1: mister Lynch. Yeah. It's hard to believe that somebody who
Speaker 1: worked with somebody for eighteen years and then they say
Speaker 1: that they don't have a relationship, especially when we have
Speaker 1: earlier statements. Let me also ask, now, when you went
Speaker 1: to work for mister Epstein, he was a registered sex offender,
Speaker 1: isn't that correct?
Speaker 2: Mis Groff?
Speaker 1: That was after I started working for him that he
Speaker 1: became a registered sex offender. Mister Lynch. Yeah, stuff going on,
Speaker 1: and then he was his conviction became final. He did
Speaker 1: what thirteen months in prison? No, thirteen months in the stockade?
Speaker 1: You mean.
Speaker 2: Groff, correct, Lynch, And.
Speaker 1: You were responsible at making sure that he lived up
Speaker 1: to his restrictions as a sex offender.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: He had reporting, travel requirements, he had no contact requirements.
Speaker 1: So actually you sort of made sure that he was
Speaker 1: compliant with his status as a registered sex offender, Miss Groff. No,
Speaker 1: I did not. I was not the one in charge
Speaker 1: of making sure. I did remind him that he needed
Speaker 1: to register when it was that time of year, that
Speaker 1: as part of his directive to remind him. But I
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with she gets cut off by
Speaker 1: mister Lynch. It says here that you dealt with several
Speaker 1: tasks related to his status as sex offender. Those included
Speaker 1: sending reminders to update his registration status and photograph, and
Speaker 1: attempting to get him a Russian visa despite his status
Speaker 1: as an offender.
Speaker 2: Miss Groff.
Speaker 1: All I did was remind him that it was time
Speaker 1: for him to get Mister Lynch cuts her off. But
Speaker 1: your earlier statement that now mister Whitcomb jumps in, Sir
Speaker 1: can Will you just let her finish her response, please.
Speaker 1: She has tried a couple of times to respond to
Speaker 1: your question and she hasn't been able to finish it.
Speaker 1: Mister Lynch, Okay, have had it all right, mims Groff.
Speaker 1: All I did was remind them on a schedule that
Speaker 1: he was supposed to go and register if he was
Speaker 1: in pom Beach. I think that was the standard, and
Speaker 1: I was directed by him to include that on his schedule.
Speaker 1: I did not make any appointments for him to go register.
Speaker 1: He did that on his own if you went to
Speaker 1: pom Beach. I believe it was once a year, and
Speaker 1: I was told to remind him three months ahead of
Speaker 1: the time, two months ahead of time, and then after
Speaker 1: that every other week or something like that. It was,
Speaker 1: But that was all I ever did, mister Lynch. You realize, however,
Speaker 1: that having knowledge of that certainly is not consistent with
Speaker 1: your earlier statement that there was a vague awareness on
Speaker 1: your part about what mister Epstein was charged with and
Speaker 1: what his status was and what he was guilty of
Speaker 1: at the same time that you were scheduling massages for
Speaker 1: young women with a registered sex offender. And yet you
Speaker 1: maintain that you didn't see anything improper in that, and
Speaker 1: you've said that multiple times, sending young women to give
Speaker 1: a massage to a registered sex offender, and you yet
Speaker 1: you tell the committee and you tell others that you
Speaker 1: saw nothing improper with that. I just find it it
Speaker 1: just hurts your credibility, mister Backner. With all due respect,
Speaker 1: the record speaks for what she said. I don't believe
Speaker 1: that's an accurate characterization of what she said. But go ahead,
Speaker 1: mister Lynch. Okay, mister Wickham. And it's also please just
Speaker 1: bear hear me out. She's here as a witness. She's
Speaker 1: not an attorney like me and you, sir. She's not
Speaker 1: familiar with all the legal jargon and the legal leads
Speaker 1: regarding a guilty plea, So that should respectfully be born
Speaker 1: in mind. Mister Lynch. Well, I appreciate that. But she
Speaker 1: is a witness, mister witcom sure, mister Lynch, And she's
Speaker 1: at the hub of this, at the very hub of this.
Speaker 1: She has contact with all the people, all the victims,
Speaker 1: the high powered people. She's at the hub of all
Speaker 1: of this. She's a very important witness, and we're trying
Speaker 1: to get to the truth, get at the truth on
Speaker 1: behalf of these victims who I think we agree, we
Speaker 1: feel deeply for, and so that's the mission here. I'm
Speaker 1: over my time and so I have to relinquish it
Speaker 1: until we do another hour. But thank you, I yield,
Speaker 1: mister Garcia, just briefly. We're going to continue this questioning
Speaker 1: in the next hour. But just miss Groff, it's been
Speaker 1: reported by the Wall Street Journal that mar A Lavo
Speaker 1: was sending spawn employees, usually young women, to Epstein's Palm
Speaker 1: Beach home to provide massages. We know that Glenn Maxwell
Speaker 1: was accused of recruiting and trafficking survivors as well. Do
Speaker 1: you recall any of this when you were working employed
Speaker 1: by mister Epstein, Miss Groff, No, mister Garcia, So did
Speaker 1: you ever schedule any appointments for mar A Lago, or
Speaker 1: through mar A Lago, for mar A Lago employees to
Speaker 1: come to Epstein's home and provide any sort of spa services,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff. Know Garcia, So, as far as your work
Speaker 1: is considered through the Wall Street Journal, we've seen the
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal reporting that there was actually women being
Speaker 1: brought in from mar A Lago. That's something that you
Speaker 1: had no interaction with. And never heard about, correct, Miss Groff,
Speaker 1: That is correct, mister Garcia. Is there anyone that you
Speaker 1: think would have information about who was actually connecting these
Speaker 1: women from mar A Lago to mister Epstein? Miss Groff,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Garcia, so you wouldn't have any Could
Speaker 1: you maybe think who would be a person or two
Speaker 1: that would be making these connections? Do you have any idea,
Speaker 1: Miss Groth? I would think Miss Maxwell was with him
Speaker 1: in Palm Beach, but I don't know that for sure.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Mister Garcia will have additional questions later misredacted. That's it
Speaker 1: for now, and we'll go off the record. Back on
Speaker 1: the record now, and it's miss Tolan asking the questions question.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to ask a few clarifying questions that
Speaker 1: focus on what we asked you during our first round.
Speaker 1: So to begin with, we discuss the physical phone directories
Speaker 1: with the list and the names, and then you also
Speaker 1: mentioned that there was an electronic version of that. Is
Speaker 1: that correct?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: Correct question? And I believe I asked you already, But
Speaker 1: you don't know the platform or the database that electronic
Speaker 1: one was stored on the Citrix sound familiar to you?
Speaker 1: Answer it does now question yes, answer because I heard
Speaker 1: Sarah say that. Question okay. And do you know does
Speaker 1: that ring a bell? Is that what it was stored on?
Speaker 2: Answer? I don't. I don't know. Question okay.
Speaker 1: And do you know where the backup information for those
Speaker 1: directories are stored?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't know, question okay. And then in the previous
Speaker 1: hour you also mentioned, I believe, but who prepared the
Speaker 1: rooms for the massages at the New York residence. Answer
Speaker 1: I don't know. I would think a maid would be
Speaker 1: responsible for cleaning, but I don't know. I wasn't there.
Speaker 1: Question Do you know who set up the room in
Speaker 1: order for it to be ready for a massage? Answer
Speaker 1: no question? And I believe you mentioned individuals who would
Speaker 1: let the messuses into the property.
Speaker 2: Who did you say that was?
Speaker 1: Answer the people that answered the doors question yes, answer
Speaker 1: that would be the maid Lynn Fontania or her husband
Speaker 1: Jojo who was his driver, or possibly.
Speaker 2: It was really those two, but possibly it could be Rich.
Speaker 1: Barnett or I think also Buzz somebody in like New
Speaker 1: York apartment type of thing. Question and so those individuals
Speaker 1: would have to let the messuses into the property? Answer correct.
Speaker 1: Question did you on any occasion ever let any of
Speaker 1: them in answer, no question. Did you ever buzz any
Speaker 1: of them in like you just mentioned, answer, I don't
Speaker 1: know how to do that question. Did you ever have
Speaker 1: discussions with any of these individuals about the women they
Speaker 1: were seeing coming in and out of the property? Answer
Speaker 1: no question. And then I believe you briefly covered this
Speaker 1: as well. But did you ever pay money or cash
Speaker 1: to any of the messuse's Answer? I never directly paid anyone.
Speaker 1: It's possible that mister Epstein may have directed me to
Speaker 1: ask or adacted in the accounting department to put two
Speaker 1: hundred in an envelope to have picked up and messengered
Speaker 1: over to someone who had done some sort of job
Speaker 1: for mister Epstein, and that was either picked up by
Speaker 1: the messenger or Jojo. Mister Timmins, did you ever see
Speaker 1: a black bag of cash?
Speaker 2: Groff?
Speaker 1: A black bag, Timmins, a black bag that had cash
Speaker 1: in it Graff? No, Timmins, you never saw that Groff,
Speaker 1: no question. And the messenger did you know who the
Speaker 1: messenger was or was it he gets cut off by growth?
Speaker 1: It was a messenger service. I don't recall who the
Speaker 1: messenger service was. That was a long time ago. Question
Speaker 1: was the same messenger service always used? Answer? Probably, I
Speaker 1: mean there might have been a couple. I don't recall.
Speaker 1: Question did you ever meet anyone with the messengers? Answer
Speaker 1: no question. Did you ever have a conversation with any
Speaker 1: of them? Answer no question? And why was the cash
Speaker 1: given to these messuses?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I just figured that's the way people get paid. Question
Speaker 1: And I guess more clarification, why cash as opposed to
Speaker 1: checks or any other form of payment? Answer? I don't know.
Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
Speaker 1: then the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. All the information that
Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
Speaker 1: where we left off with a Leslie Groff interview with Congress.
Speaker 1: Question and was Glenn Maxwell ever present in the room
Speaker 1: when mister Epstein was receiving a massage?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question did miss Maxwell ever instruct any
Speaker 1: woman or a girl on how to give mister Epstein
Speaker 1: a massage? Answer? I don't know. Question was anyone else
Speaker 1: ever present in the room when mister Epstein was receiving
Speaker 1: a massage. Answer, I don't know. Question, as you testified
Speaker 1: to earlier. You began working for mister Epstein in two
Speaker 1: thousand and one. In two thousand and eight, he pleaded
Speaker 1: guilty to two felony accounts of soliciting and procuring a
Speaker 1: minor for prostitution. We'll get into the details of the
Speaker 1: investigation much more later, but the investigation into him began
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five while you were still working
Speaker 1: for mister Epstein. When did you first learn about the investigation?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I believe it was two thousand and seven. Question and
Speaker 1: how did you learn? Answer because the FBI came to
Speaker 1: my door in Connecticut and handed to serve me a subpoena.
Speaker 1: Question and did you speak with them? Did you give
Speaker 1: testimony to them? Then? Answer? I let them into my
Speaker 1: house and sat them on my sofa and they started
Speaker 1: asking some questions, and yeah, that was it. That was
Speaker 1: how I found out. Question what questions did they ask? Answer?
Speaker 1: It was so long ago. I think they just asked
Speaker 1: if you know, they said that they were here. They
Speaker 1: were very friendly. They just said, you know, we're here
Speaker 1: because we understand you work for mister Epstein as a secretary,
Speaker 1: and we just want to talk to you. I really
Speaker 1: don't remember what they said. I think my head was
Speaker 1: probably spinning. I had no idea, Miss Brygnac. Question who
Speaker 1: did you speak to?
Speaker 2: Next?
Speaker 1: Answer my son who was with me because he had
Speaker 1: just gotten up from a nap. He was about two
Speaker 1: and a half to three years old. And I really
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. So I went upstairs and
Speaker 1: I called Darren Endyke, who is the in house counsel,
Speaker 1: just to say that people are here. I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. And he just said
Speaker 1: you should not speak to them without an attorney. And
Speaker 1: I've watched enough TV. Okay, So I went downstairs and
Speaker 1: I said, I don't think I should be speaking to
Speaker 1: you without an attorney president, And they didn't really like that,
Speaker 1: and then they left. Question did you in fact retain
Speaker 1: an attorney? Answer? I did not retain an attorney myself.
Speaker 1: Mister Epstein got me an attorney and I went and
Speaker 1: spoke to him.
Speaker 2: Once.
Speaker 1: Question when you spoke to mister Indicke, did he seem
Speaker 1: privy to the investigation? Answer? No question, it was news
Speaker 1: to him. Answer, it sounded like it was news to him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Miss Tolin. Did anyone ever instruct you besides without having
Speaker 1: an attorney, but did anyone generally instruct you not to
Speaker 1: talk to the FBI?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Question?
Speaker 1: And at what point did the massages stop occurring for
Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer when he went to jail? Question in
Speaker 1: July of two thousand and six. Answer, No, he went
Speaker 1: to jail. When did he go to jail two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine, two thousand and eight, Yeah, Brignac. Did the
Speaker 1: massages stop occurring at that time? Miss Groff?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Question did they resume at any point after he was
Speaker 1: released from jail? Miss Groff? No, Mister Emmer, what was
Speaker 1: your understanding of why the massages stopped at that point?
Speaker 1: Miss Groff, you never said there was no reason. They
Speaker 1: just stopped. Mister Timmins when he was on work release.
Speaker 1: Did he not get massages when he was out of
Speaker 1: jail temporarily, Miss Groff? No, Brignac, I'm sorry, Miss Groff,
Speaker 1: you said they never resumed, Miss Groff, They did not
Speaker 1: resume after he got back or when he came got
Speaker 1: out of jail. Miss Brignac, you never booked a massage
Speaker 1: for mister Epstein once he was released from prison, Miss Groff,
Speaker 1: It's possible that there was a massage had a spawn
Speaker 1: pomp Beach don Wick that we discussed earlier. They had
Speaker 1: a medical chiropractic care spa, and I think that might
Speaker 1: have been one time. I think he bought like a
Speaker 1: package of ten for a nutritionist. They were nutritionists in
Speaker 1: chiropractic care, and don was also a registered massuse mister Timmins.
Speaker 1: So in twenty thirteen when you moved into the residence
Speaker 1: and your office was there, he never had you book
Speaker 1: a massage for him until he died in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff, that's correct, Miss Brignac. But he continued to
Speaker 1: receive massages correct? Did someone else book them, Miss Groff,
Speaker 1: Not that I know of. I don't know that massages
Speaker 1: were being booked or made. Brignac. Why would the massages
Speaker 1: need to cease if that was a regular part of
Speaker 1: his day and he said, in fact he was not guilty,
Speaker 1: Ms Graff, I don't know. He also stopped drinking tea.
Speaker 1: Miss Witcombe, you answered the question, Ms Graff, Yeah, Miss Witcombe,
Speaker 1: you answered the question. Ms Graff, I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Miss Brignac. Did you find it odd that it was
Speaker 1: a regular part of your practice, the schedule his massages,
Speaker 1: and then it suddenly stopped, Miss Groff, know, Miss Tolan,
Speaker 1: And now we're just going to ask a few general
Speaker 1: questions about your role and get into some more details
Speaker 1: about it. Did you have to sign a non disclosure
Speaker 1: agreement upon being hired as mister Epstein's secretary? Answer yes,
Speaker 1: question what were the details of this agreement? Answer? What
Speaker 1: I recall is that I was not supposed to discuss
Speaker 1: any of mister epstein clients with anyone, and if I
Speaker 1: did so, it would be one hundred thousand dollars fee.
Speaker 1: Question And you understood this to mean his business clients
Speaker 1: who he managed money for. Answer correct. Question And how
Speaker 1: did you know? I know we discussed earlier your knowledge
Speaker 1: of who clients were, But how did you know who
Speaker 1: was a client at the time? Answer? I believe that
Speaker 1: NDA might have specifically said las Wexner and then clients
Speaker 1: and clients. Question But at the time you would have
Speaker 1: understood who fell into that category? Answer sure, as clients
Speaker 1: is wealthy clients? Uh huh.
Speaker 2: Question did you keep a copy of the agreement?
Speaker 1: Answer? I did not. Question did all the employees of
Speaker 1: mister Epstein have to sign the agreement? Answer? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Question did mister Epstein himself ask you to sign the agreement?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: No, it was part of onboarding. It was probably redacted,
Speaker 1: is my bet? Question and you mentioned previously, but can
Speaker 1: you explain again where you maintained office space while working
Speaker 1: for him?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: Sure, so from two thousand and one to two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine it was part of Helmsley Palace, part of
Speaker 1: the Villard House, and I was located in the rear
Speaker 1: of the suite, directly back from the reception as desk.
Speaker 1: There was a door to my office and then my
Speaker 1: desk sitting. If you looked outside the window you could
Speaker 1: see Saint Patrick's Cathedral. Answer and where did you move
Speaker 1: to in two thousand and nine? Answer in two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine, we moved to three oh one E sixty
Speaker 1: sixth Street. Answer and how long were you in that
Speaker 1: office space? Answer? I believe it was two or three years.
Speaker 1: Question When did you get moved to that office space? Answer?
Speaker 1: We were told that the premier location at Helmsley Palace
Speaker 1: was very expensive location, and since mister Epstein wasn't going
Speaker 1: to be here, anymore what we needed to We were
Speaker 1: downsizing and needed to find other space. I don't know
Speaker 1: why it became three oh one E sixty sixth Street.
Speaker 1: Question did you ever work out of the four fifty
Speaker 1: seven Madison Avenue building? Answer that was Helmsley Place? Yes,
Speaker 1: question Okay, did you ever? Timmins jumps in real quick?
Speaker 1: Can I get back to something? So it's my understanding
Speaker 1: that Epstein had a massage every day for his entire life,
Speaker 1: but after he got out of jail, you never booked
Speaker 1: a massage therapist. Did you book the eight assistants for
Speaker 1: an hour? And did just say name hour or what
Speaker 1: he was getting massage? So like, and you were in
Speaker 1: charge of his schedule, so what was going on? I mean,
Speaker 1: did you book a redacted ten am for an hour?
Speaker 2: Graf?
Speaker 1: No Timmins, no Graff, no Timmins. Okay, he got a
Speaker 1: massage for every day of his life. So when after
Speaker 1: twenty ten, when he got out of jail, when when
Speaker 1: did that happen? I mean, if you do a schedule, Graf,
Speaker 1: when did it stop? Timmins? He was getting them. The
Speaker 1: question is who was giving them to him? If you
Speaker 1: were not coordinating it? So how did he who was
Speaker 1: doing it? Mister Wickham jumps in. Was there someone else coordinating?
Speaker 1: Mister Timmins, Was there like a logical spot in his
Speaker 1: schedule on a regular basis that used to have a
Speaker 1: massage that now has something else? A pattern? Backner? Maybe
Speaker 1: if you ask, I don't know if we ask her
Speaker 1: if she knew he was getting massages? Timmins okay, Graff, Yeah, Timmins.
Speaker 1: Was there a pattern in the schedule that would suggest
Speaker 1: that there was a moment in his day on a
Speaker 1: regular basis that he was getting a massage since you
Speaker 1: stopped scheduling them?
Speaker 2: Graff?
Speaker 1: No, Timmins, okay, Sorry, Back to miss Tolan and then
Speaker 1: just a few more office questions. Did you ever work
Speaker 1: out of the Palm Beach home?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: No, question did you? And did you mentioned an office
Speaker 1: space in Manhattan Town home?
Speaker 2: Later on?
Speaker 1: Answer? Later on yes? Question And aside from scheduling massages,
Speaker 1: can you describe your other roles and responsibilities as mister
Speaker 1: Epstein's secretary? Answer?
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 1: I scheduled his business meetings. I schedule a breakfast, lunch, dinner.
Speaker 1: If he was going to have a party, I might
Speaker 1: coordinate with that. I coordinated with his staff at all
Speaker 1: the homes on his island. I coordinated with his pilots.
Speaker 1: I would sometimes coordinate trips to say a head conference.
Speaker 1: I would the call list, as I said, was very extensive.
Speaker 1: He would make calls every day. And yeah, question and
Speaker 1: also aside from the massages, did you ever spend money
Speaker 1: or provide cash on behalf of mister Epstein during your
Speaker 1: time as his secretary to anyone? Answer no question. Did
Speaker 1: you ever help order or purchase gifts for anyone on
Speaker 1: behalf of mister Epstein? Answer no question. And I'm just
Speaker 1: going to answer some more clarifying questions about purchasing gifts,
Speaker 1: Miss Backner. Could I have one word with her?
Speaker 2: Tolan?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they go off the record. Now they're back on
Speaker 1: ms Graff. Yeah, okay, I was going to say sorry
Speaker 1: after you asked that, I would say that I definitely
Speaker 1: coordinated about forty people to receive Apple watches, and you know,
Speaker 1: I might be asked to buy the gift card for
Speaker 1: Kathy Ruhmler to a SPA something like that, Miss Tolan.
Speaker 1: Question what were the Apple watches for? Answer? I think
Speaker 1: there were Christmas gifts, holiday gifts. That was about There
Speaker 1: was a list of about forty people, men and women,
Speaker 1: high profile people on there, and mister Epstein just wanted
Speaker 1: to give everybody a watch for Christmas. Question do you
Speaker 1: recall any of the names who received watches? Answer I do.
Speaker 1: I was one of them. Steve Bannon was one of them.
Speaker 1: Jojo and Lynn I believe were on there. I don't
Speaker 1: recall who else. Question what year was that?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I think that was twenty eighteen. Question and did you
Speaker 1: ever purchase any gifts for any of mister Epstein's assistants? Answer?
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Question did you purchase gifts for any other woman associated
Speaker 1: with mister Epstein?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I know Kathy Rumler got a gift card at Christmas time?
Speaker 1: I recall getting Leon Black's assistant. I think she got
Speaker 1: a spot card. Question did you ever purchase lingerie for
Speaker 1: women associated with mister Epstein? Answer no? Question What about flowers?
Speaker 1: Answer Kathy Rumler might have received flowers. What about chocolates?
Speaker 1: Answer not that I recall, Miss Britnak. What was his
Speaker 1: relationship with Kathy Rumler?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: Business? Yes, they were. From what I could tell, it
Speaker 1: was a business relationship. Question it seemed like a business
Speaker 1: relationship after he was sending flowers and SPA appointments.
Speaker 2: Answer.
Speaker 1: I think he thought of her as very professional, and
Speaker 1: he was very generous, and I think he found her
Speaker 1: she was very busy and probably enjoyed some flowers on
Speaker 1: her birthday or a SPA gift card. Question was there
Speaker 1: any office gossip about their relationship? Answer no? Question did
Speaker 1: you wear any rumors about their relationship? Answer no? Mister Emmer,
Speaker 1: what was her job during this period? Answer by Miss Groff.
Speaker 1: She was an attorney?
Speaker 2: Emmer.
Speaker 1: Do you know gets cut off by Groff. I don't
Speaker 1: know exactly, but I knew her to be an attorney,
Speaker 1: Miss Tolan. And you said mister Epstein knew her. Their
Speaker 1: relationship was strictly business. What kind of business were they
Speaker 1: engaging in together? Can you elaborate, Miss Groff, I don't know.
Speaker 1: He did not talk to me about that, Mister Backner.
Speaker 1: Can I ask her another question? Goes off the record
Speaker 1: back on Miss Brignac, and you add access to mister
Speaker 1: Epstein's personal email accounts? Did you see any conversations about
Speaker 1: Miss Rumler's job position. Ms Groff, I did not have
Speaker 1: access to his personal email account. I mean I would
Speaker 1: email them, but I didn't see his emails. Miss Britnak,
Speaker 1: were U c seed on any emails at reference Roomler's profession? Groff,
Speaker 1: I don't recall Emmer in relation to Rumler. The Committee's
Speaker 1: interested in how mister Epstein may have surrounded himself with
Speaker 1: influential individuals to curry favor. Did you understand Rumler to
Speaker 1: be an individual that was working at the White House
Speaker 1: during the period that you had been scheduling their meetings,
Speaker 1: Ms Groff, I thought you worked at the White House
Speaker 1: prior to mister Epstein's meeting mister Emmer, Thank you.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: We're going to wrap up right here and in the
Speaker 1: next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick
Speaker 1: up where we left off. All the information that goes
Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
Speaker 1: where we left off with the Leslie Groff interview with
Speaker 1: Congress Miss Tolan. Question a few more questions on gifts. Generally,
Speaker 1: did you ever facilitate payment for school tuition for any
Speaker 1: woman or girl associated with Jeffrey Epstein?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I did not facilitate payment. Question did you purchase order
Speaker 1: or in any way help procure gifts for any of
Speaker 1: the following individuals Glenne Maxwell answer no, Leon Black answer no.
Speaker 1: Doug Band answer no. Bill Gates answer no question. And
Speaker 1: as we have mentioned, part of the committee's investigation is
Speaker 1: trying to understand how mister Epstein sought to curry favor
Speaker 1: with prominent individuals. Are there any other prominent individual that
Speaker 1: mister Epstein would send expensive or frequent gifts to answer
Speaker 1: in the government question just any prominent individual? Answer there
Speaker 1: was a time when him and Tommy Mottola used to
Speaker 1: send each other gifts, but that's all I can remember.
Speaker 1: Question and you what kind of gifts? Answer? I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe a four whiller, I don't remember. I felt like
Speaker 1: they were just trying to give each other. I'll do
Speaker 1: one another with a better gift at one time? Question
Speaker 1: did you have a credit card for work? Answer no.
Speaker 1: Question did you ever use your personal credit card for
Speaker 1: making purchases? Answer no, Miss Brignac. Were you reimbursed for
Speaker 1: purchases Graf No Brignac. Were you expected to cover your
Speaker 1: own travel and expenses related to your position? Graff If
Speaker 1: I was I barely traveled? But no? If I did
Speaker 1: travel that would be reimbursed. Backner, Can I have one
Speaker 1: more word? Graf ya go off the record now they're
Speaker 1: back Brignac. In your role, did you ever coordinat, or
Speaker 1: facilitate trips for foreign women or girls?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I would coordinate airfare for women and men to see
Speaker 1: mister Ebstein. Question could you walk me through that process?
Speaker 2: Answer? Sure.
Speaker 1: Mister Epstein would direct me to give me a name
Speaker 1: and ask me to coordinate a flight for someone to
Speaker 1: wherever it was that they needed to fly from to
Speaker 1: go visit them. Question why answer he did not tell
Speaker 1: me that question you never asked? Answer no question. Did
Speaker 1: you ever identify, recruit, screen, interview, or recommend any foreign
Speaker 1: women or girls for meetings or employment with mister Epstein
Speaker 1: or his associates? Answer no. Question did you ever assist
Speaker 1: anyone else to recruit a foreign woman or girl? Answer no?
Speaker 2: Question.
Speaker 1: How are these women identified that you did assist in
Speaker 1: coordinating travel for answer?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Question who provided their names in contact information? Answer mister Epstein.
Speaker 1: Question who made the final determination on whether a young
Speaker 1: woman or girl receive visa sponsorship?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question do you have any role in
Speaker 1: a visa sponsorship process answer, no, Timmins. Can I back up?
Speaker 1: She asked you a question if you ever coordinated the
Speaker 1: introduction of any foreign nationals and you said no, graff
Speaker 1: the introduction of what was the question? Have you ever
Speaker 1: participated in visa sponsorship for a foreign woman or a girl? Timmins?
Speaker 1: Did you ever identify, recruit, screen, or recommend foreign women
Speaker 1: or girls for employment or meetings with mister Epstein or
Speaker 1: his associates graf No Timmins. Were you ever involved in
Speaker 1: the process graf No Timmins. On May first, twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: you're emailing back and forth regarding of a girl from Ukraine. Darling.
Speaker 1: Here's a picture of the new girl. She's twenty one,
Speaker 1: very sweet and lovely. Let me know when you receive
Speaker 1: them please. I took them from her portfolio. Maybe the
Speaker 1: quality is not so good, but I think you can
Speaker 1: still see everything. So you have a person their names
Speaker 1: are adapted here and I'm not going to use their name,
Speaker 1: but the person is Eastern Europe that is communicating with you,
Speaker 1: not with mister Epstein, and providing photos of a girl.
Speaker 1: And it seems that, I mean, there's a nineteen year
Speaker 1: old girl and there's a twenty one year old girl.
Speaker 1: So how do you reconcile the email? I mean, we
Speaker 1: can get the print out for you. That seems like
Speaker 1: what you're doing, Graf. No, Timmins, So what was the
Speaker 1: purpose of the communication, Graf. I don't recall the purpose
Speaker 1: or what it was. To me. It sounds like this
Speaker 1: was models or possibly I don't know. Timmins. Okay, I
Speaker 1: saw it on the document. We'll get it printed, Tolan.
Speaker 1: And the follow up on that point, I'll now introduce
Speaker 1: majority exhibit too, Tolan. We'll give it a second to
Speaker 1: get passed out. But this is a chain of emails
Speaker 1: between as Groff and a redacted name. These emails are
Speaker 1: dated April eighteenth, twenty twelve, and the subject line reads
Speaker 1: first girl redacted. The Bates number is EFTA zero two
Speaker 1: zero two seven six three eight. Will give you a
Speaker 1: moment to review, Tolan.
Speaker 2: Question.
Speaker 1: This is an email that was just being referenced. If
Speaker 1: you read it from the bottom up. The first email states, Hi, Leslie,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry in front of Jeffrey for my delay.
Speaker 1: I'm sending you pictures of to of my friends now.
Speaker 1: They're both Russians, winky face.
Speaker 2: Here's first.
Speaker 1: Her name is redacted, and it says there's another name
Speaker 1: listed below, and on the back of the page, page two,
Speaker 1: there's an entirely redacted image answer okay question and then
Speaker 1: miss Groff, you respond on the same day with just
Speaker 1: a winky face. So, just for the record to be clear,
Speaker 1: are you familiar with this email? Answer? I don't recall it,
Speaker 1: but I think I said no worries, thanks, and someone
Speaker 1: else had the winky face question Okay, thank you answer.
Speaker 1: I don't recall this email. The date seems to suggest
Speaker 1: that it's possible he was looking for new traveling assistance. Timmins. Sorry,
Speaker 1: let's be very clear. He was attempting to find people
Speaker 1: that he was going to sex and human traffic for
Speaker 1: the next decade. So I mean, yeah, it's an assistant,
Speaker 1: but that's what he was doing, Miss Buckner. Are you
Speaker 1: asking if she knew it? Timmins? I just I don't
Speaker 1: like people using that word assistant. I correct people when
Speaker 1: they say it because it's not accurate. She's an assistant,
Speaker 1: mister Witcomb. She's testifying, sir, you're not mister Backner. In
Speaker 1: all fairness, she's not disputing what Jeffrey Epstein did. If
Speaker 1: you're asking what she knew back then. She'll gladly answer
Speaker 1: the question, but she's not disputing that mister Epstein was
Speaker 1: his person doing what you're claiming she was doing or
Speaker 1: he was doing, mister Timmins, and that was to find
Speaker 1: culpability in the process. Bagner understood Timmins. When she's facilitating
Speaker 1: the flow of information and people, that's why we're here.
Speaker 1: Bagner understood, well, the issue is whether there was knowledge
Speaker 1: or not, which she doesn't have. Timmins correct toll In question,
Speaker 1: so why was this individual sending you images of other women?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Question did you ask for the photos?
Speaker 1: Answer no? Question did mister Epstein ask for the photo?
Speaker 1: Answer I don't know. Question where you aware that this
Speaker 1: is this is a nude photo?
Speaker 2: Do you recall?
Speaker 1: Answer no. Brignac, why would he need a photograph in
Speaker 1: order to recruit an assistant? Graff, I don't know that
Speaker 1: this was to get a traveling assistant. I said it's
Speaker 1: possible that it was. He was always wanting to find
Speaker 1: better and I don't know what it was for. I
Speaker 1: also know that he was very, very connected to the
Speaker 1: modeling world. He was in business with Jean lu Brunel
Speaker 1: as well. As other agencies. Brignak. This is in twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: after he cut ties with Les Wexner. So I don't
Speaker 1: think you would have thought this was for a modeling position.
Speaker 1: What did you mean by your winki face, Miss Groff.
Speaker 1: That's not my winki face, it's whoever sent the email,
Speaker 1: Miss Tolan? And do you know how this individual was
Speaker 1: in the photo? Answer? I do not question? What did
Speaker 1: you do with this image? After answer I probably forwarded
Speaker 1: to mister Epstein. Question and did this happen on multiple occasions?
Speaker 1: How often were you receiving images of women to give
Speaker 1: to mister Epstein?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: Not often, Miss Toland. I'll now introduce majority exhibit number three.
Speaker 1: This is another email chain dated May first, twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: between miss Groff and another adacted email address with the
Speaker 1: subject line Jeffrey Epstein. Debates number is EFTA zero one
Speaker 1: eight eight four seven eight nine. I'll give you a
Speaker 1: momentary you this one as well, Backner, Okay, Tolan, I'll
Speaker 1: direct your attention to the bottom of the page one,
Speaker 1: where the email reads, dear Leslie, just wanted to make
Speaker 1: sure you got the new photo. Let me know please,
Speaker 1: to which you appear to respond that you have not
Speaker 1: received any new photos, and the email address, which is redacted,
Speaker 1: says they'll try to send the email again. Then the
Speaker 1: following email near the top of the page reads, Darling,
Speaker 1: here's the picture of a new girl redacted. She's twenty one,
Speaker 1: very sweet and lovely. Let me know you receive them please.
Speaker 1: I took them from her portfolio, so maybe the quality
Speaker 1: is not so good, but I think you can still
Speaker 1: see everything with a winky face, Miss Groff. Are you
Speaker 1: familiar with this email? Answer? I am not. Since we've
Speaker 1: been getting ready to see you, I've seen this email.
Speaker 1: To me, I sound it sounds like she's a model.
Speaker 1: Question and what was the purpose of these images to
Speaker 1: send to mister Epstein?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I would think so, yes, Brinyak, Why would you be
Speaker 1: sending modeling photos to mister Epstein?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: Because he had a business for relationship with Jean Luke
Speaker 1: Brunel and Kate's faith with Next Modeling, and he knew
Speaker 1: lots and lots of models Naomi Campbell, Petro Nokiva, Tatiana Stepanova,
Speaker 1: famous models. It made sense to me that he'd be
Speaker 1: helping coordinate models. Question did you ever see these women
Speaker 1: receive job offers? Or modeling contracts. Answer, I don't recall.
Speaker 1: That was not something that was discussed with him. Question
Speaker 1: did you have any concerns with sending him these photos
Speaker 1: after he was arrested in charge and indicted for soliciting
Speaker 1: prostitution of minors. Answer no, Miss Tolan, and all of
Speaker 1: the images that are attached to have facial redactions. However,
Speaker 1: the image on what should be page seven, the second
Speaker 1: to last, the very last physical image, second to last image,
Speaker 1: is clearly a full body redaction? Is it because the
Speaker 1: woman was nude in this photo? Answer?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't remember the photo, but I don't believe I
Speaker 1: ever saw nude photos. Question did you ever the email
Speaker 1: states that she was twenty one? Did you ever verify
Speaker 1: the age of the individual?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question and did you forward these images
Speaker 1: to Jeffrey Epstein? Answer? I would think I did it,
Speaker 1: says to Jeffrey Epstein. Brignac, Miss Groff, have you ever
Speaker 1: served or sponsored a foreign woman for a girl's visa?
Speaker 2: Graff? No, Brignac.
Speaker 1: I'm going to enter majority Exhibit four, which is EFTA
Speaker 1: zero two zero six two five. Excuse me, zero two
Speaker 1: zero six two nine five to one. This is an
Speaker 1: email from you to AMEX Centurion Travel dated January fourteenth,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, Miss Brignac. The email reads, Natasha, we need
Speaker 1: to find a flight that departs Roam and goes to
Speaker 1: London on the twenty ninth four redacted. This flight should
Speaker 1: depart around the same time the flight we're holding for
Speaker 1: redacted rome to Miami. No return flight for this flight.
Speaker 1: This is a decoy flight. She will not really take it,
Speaker 1: but she needs to show it on the itinerary for
Speaker 1: this flight. Can you put something together for me? I'm
Speaker 1: going to give you a moment to review this, Miss
Speaker 1: bok would he have just one second? Goes off the
Speaker 1: record now they're back Backner, were ready? Miss Brignac?
Speaker 2: Question? What's a decoy flight? Answer?
Speaker 1: It means she's not going to take the flight. Question
Speaker 1: did you regularly engage in requesting decoy flights for securing visas?
Speaker 2: Answer? No question.
Speaker 1: How many times have you engaged in this practice, mister Backner,
Speaker 1: with all due respect, there's no indication it was to
Speaker 1: obtain a visa. Brignac? Okay, how many times did you
Speaker 1: engage in the practice of registering decoy flights?
Speaker 2: Miss Groff?
Speaker 1: This is the only decoy flight that I recall, and
Speaker 1: the only reason I recall it is because while getting
Speaker 1: ready for to come speak with y'all voluntarily, I saw
Speaker 1: this email along with others about the trip Miss Tolan.
Speaker 1: You said it was a decoy flight because she wasn't going.
Speaker 1: She was not going to take it. Why grof Wright,
Speaker 1: So this person the woman wanted to take a flight
Speaker 1: to mister Epstein's. She did not want to tell her
Speaker 1: parents that she was going to take this flight. She
Speaker 1: wanted to keep the flight that was taking her to
Speaker 1: London and have a different flight though, take her really
Speaker 1: to see mister Epstein. I don't know why she didn't
Speaker 1: want to tell her parents, but this was not for
Speaker 1: a visa, Miss Brignac. I'm entering majority of Exhibit five
Speaker 1: into the record, which is marked EFTA zero zero five
Speaker 1: zero one six y two two through EFTA zero zero
Speaker 1: five zero one six two five, Miss Brignac. These emails
Speaker 1: are between you and redacted an executive travel counselor about
Speaker 1: paying for flights for a hotel for a woman with
Speaker 1: her visa, dated December seventeenth and eighteenth, twenty twelve. I'll
Speaker 1: give you a moment to review. Question who was redacted?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: She was the MX Centurion Rep. Question how did you
Speaker 1: meet her? Answer? I never met her in person. She
Speaker 1: was somebody that I was told was going to be
Speaker 1: our rep. Answer by who? Or question by who? Answer?
Speaker 1: It was a long time ago. I don't know how
Speaker 1: she came to be the rep. Question did mister Epstein
Speaker 1: introduce you to her? Answer? I don't think he introduced
Speaker 1: me to her. I'm sure he may have just called
Speaker 1: one day and said that she was now going to
Speaker 1: be our rep. I really don't recall how it happened.
Speaker 1: Question how many people at AMEX did you deal with? Answer?
Speaker 1: I dealt with her mostly, but if she was on
Speaker 1: vacation or sick or something, someone else would take her spot.
Speaker 1: Question in this exhibit, you send an email that states
Speaker 1: redacted has an interview with the Consulate at ten thirty.
Speaker 1: She needs proof of a hotel, stay and air for
Speaker 1: this meeting. If any way you can do faster, would
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. What was the reason for this individual's
Speaker 1: travel Answer? I don't know. I think that this was
Speaker 1: an assistant of mister Epstein that wanted to get her visa.
Speaker 1: Question and you assisted in facilitating that visa. Answer the
Speaker 1: only thing I facilitated was getting her a ticket and
Speaker 1: a hotel room reservation.
Speaker 2: That was it.
Speaker 1: Question but we can agree that she needed that ticket
Speaker 1: and hotel reservation in order to secure a visa. Answer
Speaker 1: I was directed to please purchase it for her. Question
Speaker 1: What were you told was the purpose of the woman's travel? Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't think I was told. It looks to me
Speaker 1: like she needed to get a visa and she was
Speaker 1: requesting it, and that's it. I was asked to get
Speaker 1: her a ticket. I was dealing with amexenturion.
Speaker 2: That's it. Question is this an example of a decoy flight?
Speaker 1: Answer? No. Question Why did you ask if it would
Speaker 1: be fully refundable?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't recall. Maybe I was asked to ask if
Speaker 1: it would be fully refundable? Answer who paid for the travel? Answer?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Question who paid for a visa application?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question did these women meet with mister
Speaker 1: Epstein upon their arrival to the US? Answer I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not positive who this even is. I believe it
Speaker 1: was a traveling assistant, but I don't know. Question did
Speaker 1: you facilitate lodging for any of the women who entered
Speaker 1: the US on a visa. Answer it's possible that I
Speaker 1: was directed to provide them an apartment or a hotel room.
Speaker 1: Question were any of these women scheduled to give massages?
Speaker 2: Answer? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Question was this woman ever identified as a victim of
Speaker 1: mister Epstein?
Speaker 2: Answer? I don't know who this is. It's redacted.
Speaker 1: Sorryquestion were any of these women that you work with
Speaker 1: the secure a visa identified as a victim of mister Epstein?
Speaker 2: Answer?
Speaker 1: I believe his traveling assistance for all victims, now yeah.
Speaker 1: Question who else did you facilitate housing for? Answer? I
Speaker 1: didn't facilitate housing. If I was directed and asked to
Speaker 1: set aside an apartment, I would do that. All right, folks,
Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here and to the
Speaker 1: next episode. We're going to pick up where we left off.
Speaker 1: All the information that goes with this episode can be
Speaker 1: found in the description box.