WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.720 Hey, this is Emily sowderback of Scarecrow Videos Viva Physical Media. 2 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:05.599 All right, this is Matt Lynch, co host of Viva 3 00:00:05.960 --> 00:00:08.359 the Projection Booth. Podcast is sponsored by Scarecrow. 4 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.480 Try out Scarecrow Videos rant by mail service. Choose from 5 00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:14.519 over one hundred and fifty five thousand films and get 6 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:17.960 Blu rays, four k's and DVDs all delivered directly to 7 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:18.399 your door. 8 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:25.440 Visit Scarecrow video dot Org today. 9 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:27.640 Oh ge is bot it? 10 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:31.199 Show Die? People pay good money to see this movie. 11 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:32.759 When they go out to a theater. 12 00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:36.799 They want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters in 13 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:37.840 the projection booths. 14 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:39.799 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 15 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:05.400 In the future, after the Great War, our civilization lies 16 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:11.920 and ruin. Government does not exist, Technology has been erased, 17 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:18.959 and everything man remembers is gone. Out of the chaos, 18 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:24.200 a lawless army will arise to prey on the few survivors. 19 00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:35.359 But two a people who have lost their hope. You 20 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:36.439 are a dangerous man. 21 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:37.799 I can see it in your eyes. 22 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:40.760 He will give them courage. 23 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:42.359 I have a feeling about you. 24 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:45.840 He will restore their memories of the past. It's the 25 00:01:45.879 --> 00:01:49.719 individual that counts These people don't need dreams, they need help. 26 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:52.760 Are you gonna bring them that good? I want him? 27 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:56.239 Bout I want him, don't Well, he will unite them. 28 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:58.439 You have a gift Postman with a. 29 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:02.719 Message of freedom, my challenge for leadership of the clans. 30 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:06.680 You know what I'm get you. 31 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:08.159 What? 32 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:16.639 Kevin Costner, Academy Award winning director of Dancers with Wolves, 33 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:20.240 brings you an epic new vision of our future. 34 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:23.520 There coulda be new on this coulda be pain. 35 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:32.560 Welcome to the Projection booth. I'm your host. Mike White 36 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:35.400 joined me once again as Ms Emily and Travia Hey. 37 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:35.599 Hey. 38 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:38.479 Also back in the booth is Ms Carol Bordon. 39 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:39.520 Hey, how you doing. 40 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:44.599 It's the epic adaptation of David Brynn's novel The Postman. 41 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:48.199 Directed by and starring Kevin Costner. The nineteen ninety seven 42 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:51.520 film runs almost three hours. It's a tale of a 43 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:54.840 lone traveler who masquerades as a postman to bring hope 44 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:58.879 and order to the tribes of post apocalyptic survivors. Unfortunately, 45 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:02.919 he's opposed by the corporate reader General Bethlehem played by 46 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.879 Will Patton, can American values topple the extremist movement or 47 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:10.319 will the cinders of America be run by armed, racist 48 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:13.800 survivalist assholes. Honey, I want to know the answer to 49 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:17.520 that question right now. We will be spoiling this three 50 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:20.240 hour extravaganza as we go along, so if you don't 51 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:22.639 want anything ruined, please turn off the podcast and come 52 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:25.439 back after you've made it through the wilderness. You have 53 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:28.319 been warned. So Carol, when was the first time you 54 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:30.199 saw The Postman and what did you think? 55 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:33.560 Strangely enough, last week was the first time I saw 56 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:37.000 The Postman on paper? It is such a me film. 57 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:41.919 I enjoy westerns, I enjoy a slow burn. I like 58 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:45.680 a post apocalyptic movie with a drifter guy, and I 59 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:50.560 love usps like I am all about postal service. And 60 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:55.159 I did not enjoy this movie at all. 61 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:58.000 And Emily, how about yourself. 62 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:00.639 I'd say, similar to Carol on or, I should have 63 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:02.479 loved this movie and seen it when it came out. 64 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:04.919 Not so much because I love a slow burn or western, 65 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:09.439 but because I love a post apocalyptic story and I 66 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:11.840 I guess it's a guilty pleasure, but I'm not embarrassed 67 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:15.919 by anything I love. Kevin Costner stars in two of 68 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:19.040 my favorite movies of all Time Field of Dreams and 69 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:22.360 Robinhood Prince of Thieves, which I know is the mess 70 00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:26.759 of a movie. And I know Kevin Costner is not 71 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:30.480 always a great artist or in any way a great actor, 72 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:34.560 but I am charmed by him on screen generally, so 73 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:37.079 there was no reason for me not to see him 74 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:40.120 in a three hour post apocalyptic ethic. But when it 75 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.680 came out, like I would have been fifteen, and it's 76 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:45.319 not an age that I could have gotten any friends 77 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:48.319 to go see this movie with me. So for years 78 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.680 I would catch bits of it, because oddly enough, it 79 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:53.839 used to air a lot. I lived in Korea for 80 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:56.360 a year in two thousand and five six, and it 81 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:59.120 was always on Korean TV. I don't know why they 82 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.319 loved The Postman. So I would catch a lot of 83 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:04.360 chunks of it, and I still couldn't piece the whole 84 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:07.439 thing together. And I knew enough of common consensus that 85 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:11.319 it was known to be dull, and I could not 86 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:13.759 commit to giving myself three hours of dullness, even with 87 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:15.240 all the other things that we're going to add up. 88 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:17.319 So for me, the first time I sat down and 89 00:05:17.319 --> 00:05:20.560 watched it, granted in three sittings, was this weekend. 90 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:24.720 I am also new to The Postman. This was a 91 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:27.319 first time watch for me, watching it for the show, 92 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:31.160 because I think by nineteen ninety seven I was kind 93 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:33.040 of why. I don't want to say I was done 94 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:37.600 with Kevin Costner, because I really liked a lot of 95 00:05:37.639 --> 00:05:40.399 his films when I was coming up in the world. 96 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.240 I think I'm probably older than both of y'all, but 97 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:49.959 really enjoyed things like you know, bul Durham, The Untouchables. 98 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:53.600 Silver Auto, He's greated. Oh he's amazing, young, sexy, athletic. 99 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:57.360 Kevin Costner was a really fun thing that was hard 100 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:00.839 to resist, I think for us of a certain generation. 101 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:04.600 And then you get into the nineties, where like I 102 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:07.800 liked Dances with Wolves when I saw it, I don't 103 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:10.519 think it deserved to win over Goodfellows for all the 104 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:13.000 awards that year at the Oscars, but the Oscars a 105 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:16.399 our whole other thing. Really enjoyed Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. 106 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:19.120 I liked JFK quite a bit. I mean it played 107 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:22.600 into his soul as like boy scout persona, this Jim 108 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:26.759 Garrison role he was playing. Never saw the Bodyguard, but 109 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:29.560 I did see a perfect world, and I hated a 110 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:33.040 perfect world and then I didn't see whyde Er, but 111 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:35.720 I did see water World, and I actually really liked 112 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:39.040 water World. I mean, I love all this apocalyptic stuff. 113 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:41.839 And so I don't know why I never saw The 114 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:46.439 Postman other than possibly tin Cup, which I hated worse 115 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:50.360 than Poison. I don't know if you all remember the 116 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:54.839 end of tin Cup where he just refuses to do something. 117 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:57.040 He just is like the most pig headed person in 118 00:06:57.079 --> 00:07:00.399 the entire world, and I'm just like, fuck you, Like 119 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.600 his character was one of the most annoying characters I've 120 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:06.560 ever seen in my life. And yeah, I just hated 121 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:09.360 that movie. So I think I kind of based on that. 122 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:11.519 And then also, you know, I mentioned the three hour 123 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.480 running time multiple times in the intro, which, you know, hey, 124 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:18.120 three hour movie I have no problems with. You know, 125 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:18.800 I talked about. 126 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:22.879 Good three hours. That's fine, Yes, I'll watch that week 127 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:26.639 seven Samurai. Yet there are so many good long movies, 128 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:33.000 but The Postman. I felt every fricking minute of The Postman. 129 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:34.800 It really is a slog. 130 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:37.399 Part of it was. I will say this is a 131 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:39.920 movie that benefits from breaking it up. I think sitting 132 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:41.600 down for three hours and watching this would have been 133 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:44.600 hard whereas watching it one hour and the next one 134 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:48.319 hour and the next one hour helped a lot. And 135 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:51.160 for me this this could have been a slog, but 136 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:54.959 I think approaching it in this regard where reading a 137 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:57.399 lot about the making of it, going into it knowing 138 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:00.279 we were going to really be dissecting it allow me 139 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:03.800 to watch it on one hand from a kind of Okay, 140 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:06.920 I am taking notes, I am noticing little things, but 141 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:12.079 also it somehow made it that much we're fascinating a 142 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:16.279 watch with how much it fails. I guess because it tries. 143 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:20.360 You cannot accuse this movie of phoning it. In this 144 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:25.759 movie dries. Now everybody is not trying the same direction, 145 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:30.199 and even Kevin Costner is not at time, like you 146 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:32.639 wonder his efforts are going in one place. It feels 147 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:34.399 like he has kind of, at this point in his 148 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:38.639 career decided, I know I'm I don't need to worry 149 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:40.320 about my performance. I know I'm good enough. I'm just 150 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:43.120 gonna work on everything else. And so it's like Kevin 151 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:46.759 Costner doing the same Kevin Costner things he's done in 152 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:51.679 all of these movies that we're mentioning, and it doesn't 153 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:56.279 work because this world is so weirdly ill defined for 154 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:57.440 it being a post apocalypse. 155 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:00.720 Also, like I hadn't thought about this before because I 156 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:06.519 similarly watched it in three segments and I became interested 157 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:10.159 in why it was not clicking with me and what 158 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:13.679 they were trying to do. When you talk about Kevin 159 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:16.320 Costner doing his Kevin Costner things, like, you, guys, I 160 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:18.799 have Kevin Costner movies I really like. I have ones 161 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:22.039 I don't like as much. I think once he got 162 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:25.039 more control, like because he had become a big star, 163 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:31.919 he miscast himself sometimes and this feels miscast to me. 164 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:35.480 But also like, do you guys remember clip shows where 165 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:38.200 like at the end of a season of television they'd 166 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:40.240 be like, we're going to show you all the best 167 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:44.919 bits from this season of the Office or whatever. When 168 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:46.679 you were talking, I'm like, oh my god, it's like 169 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:50.360 he's doing an actor's version of a clip show. Sometimes 170 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:53.759 he's like, here's the part where I'm sexy and I'm 171 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:56.559 smising into her eyes. And here's the part where I'm 172 00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:59.840 making like an off the cuff joke about how ridiculous. 173 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:02.039 Yeah, here's where I'm doing a dad joke. Here's where 174 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:05.320 I'm turning my hat backwards, but he doesn't have the 175 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:07.840 cast on the same page as him. 176 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:10.759 Like, he's trying a lot of things and he's not choosing, 177 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:13.519 and he's the director, so he really has to be 178 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:16.240 making those choices, and and he's making choices for the 179 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:19.879 other actors because he's the director, and they all come off. 180 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:26.279 Will Patton, who plays the fascist, white supremacist militia general 181 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.799 General Bethlehem, because they called him Nathan, and I'm like, 182 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:32.120 is he supposed to be like Nathan Bedford Forrest? And 183 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:34.320 then I'm like, why don't they make that more clear? 184 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:35.440 Because he kind of is. 185 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:38.480 When the movie wants him to be more villainous, they 186 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:42.240 make him more racist. It's almost that thing that I 187 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:44.000 feel like a lot of shows have done the last 188 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:47.600 couple of years, where when you've created anti heroes they've 189 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:49.960 gone too far you have to bring in like white 190 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:52.840 supremacists to make them look better, Like Breaking Bad does 191 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:55.399 this some the matter? He did this, And it feels 192 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:58.440 like a little bit with this where like Bethlehem seems 193 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.159 that I mean, because I think he's a fascinating character. 194 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.840 I mean, there's a very strong, flingering thing that I 195 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:06.240 think we have to discuss about him, but the idea 196 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:11.440 of him being racist feels really convenient to making him 197 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.120 more villainous. Not to say this is a dumb thing 198 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.240 to say, but like, oh, he feels too educated to 199 00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:20.720 be racist. You're a survivalist. How would really white supremacy 200 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:24.480 help you in this scenario? It it doesn't feel like 201 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:26.679 thought out with ultimately what we get on screen. 202 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:30.720 I have a weird little background where I went to 203 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:35.919 get my masters in anthropology, and what I was interested 204 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:38.120 when I started my masters was not what I ended 205 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:44.159 up writing about, but it was these kinds of groups, dominionism, 206 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:49.039 white supremacist. David Brynn is on point with their white 207 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:51.559 supremact general and you can see it now, like they 208 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:55.919 all show up online with their Western traditional classical Greek 209 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:59.480 sculptures things. They're all mad about the Odyssey. Now you know, 210 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:02.279 they have to be good at everything and smart about everything, 211 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:06.519 and it's almost always uh. He turns out they sell copiers. 212 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:08.639 I think he was a copier salesman or something. 213 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:10.919 He's a copy or salesman. The worst type of my 214 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:14.120 father is a copy or technician. And growing up I 215 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:16.039 have you know the things you know in life. One 216 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:18.519 of them is my father has always said this, The 217 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:20.519 worst person in the world is a copy your salesman. 218 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:21.399 Oh my goodness. 219 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:24.960 So it's very very smart idea to make your villain 220 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:26.120 a former copy yourself. 221 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:29.360 It's funny how often they talk about Rome too. There 222 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.200 was an article about how often people talk about the 223 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:34.600 Roman or think about the Roman Empire. These are the 224 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:37.240 guys either, these are the guys that skew that number 225 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:40.320 where it's like, well, I think about it all the time. Meanwhile, 226 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:44.000 a normal human being what once a year maybe. 227 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.720 And then he compares himself to Hannibal. He's like, I'm 228 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:49.320 Hannibal at the Gates. Hannibals, you are know that because 229 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:51.879 you're a woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 230 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:54.919 The two things about the Bethlehem character are one. I 231 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.840 think it is fascinating that it feels like Kevin Costner 232 00:12:59.559 --> 00:13:03.720 specifically made sure that this character was not more interesting 233 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:07.679 or powerful or charismatic than he was, because I feel 234 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:09.480 like the Dennis Hopper and water World who steals the 235 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:12.320 movie from him that deliberately he goes for somebody that 236 00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:16.000 is not as physically imposing, But also like, do we 237 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:19.679 think he's gay because he is so into Kevin Costner. 238 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:22.399 When Kevin Costner first shows up, which and it feels 239 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:25.960 very much of oh my god, finally there's somebody here 240 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:28.840 with the brain, right. This guy knows Shakespeare. This is 241 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:30.360 somebody I can talk to. This guy I haven't got 242 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:34.240 to talk to anybody forever. And throughout the film it's 243 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.000 constantly like, man, I really hope he doesn't comes back, 244 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:38.720 and not in a way of like I hope he 245 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:41.279 comes back so we can do it. There is clearly 246 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:44.799 this sort of like crazy admiration. And what else do 247 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:47.919 we learn in this movie is that he kidnaps Kevin 248 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:51.039 Cost's love interest. Obviously she's the hot thing in the 249 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:53.919 in the town. He's rating and what can he not do? 250 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.120 He cannot sexually perform again. 251 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.759 Homo Eraticism is such a part of this, and I 252 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:05.159 think that it was being brought to Bethlohem's character. But 253 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:07.840 the reason I hadn't thought about it is because Kevin 254 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:10.679 Costner is not reflecting it back to him. And not 255 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:12.679 that I need to have him have desire, but he's 256 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.679 it's almost like he's deliberately, like you say, not recognizing 257 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:16.039 him not. 258 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.159 It's like the Ben Her story of how William Wiler 259 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.919 and I forget the actor's name. They knew. They're like, 260 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:25.279 this is yeah, this guy's in love with Ben her 261 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:27.879 like this is a romance. But they knew. We cannot 262 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:30.879 tell Charlton Heston right, we're going to play it this way. 263 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:33.720 But do not let anybody suggested Chorlton Heston that this 264 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:36.279 is what we're doing. He won't know, he won't figure 265 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:39.399 it out. And he feels like Will Patton might have been, like, 266 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.120 I have an idea for this. I know what I'm doing. 267 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.000 I just cannot tell the straightest of all straight Ben 268 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:46.480 Kevin Gosner about it. And it's ten kids who are 269 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:47.000 in the movie. 270 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:49.960 Well, even when you see Bethlehem, when he's hanging out, 271 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.759 he's like painting pictures of himself. It's very you know, 272 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:56.120 it's a very feminine thing to do, be interested in 273 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.519 the arts and shakespeare battle, Like, I guess the nearest 274 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:03.639 Shakespea your battle I had seen was maybe what Star 275 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:06.279 Trek's six, The Undiscovered Country, you know, where they're going 276 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:08.399 back and forth and even throwing out some of the 277 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:11.279 same lines and everything. So I can totally see that, 278 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:14.320 especially all of them dressed in their leather outfits and everything. 279 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:18.159 I didn't realize that they were wearing the number eight. 280 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.559 I kept thinking they were wearing a bee for Bethlehem, 281 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:22.559 and then finally I was like, oh, that's an eight. 282 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:24.159 I thought they were wearing eight ball jackets. 283 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:27.279 In after that is the eight. I didn't I didn't 284 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:29.559 get catch of that either, is eight laws. 285 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:33.759 The eight laws? Oh right, right, yeah, which comes up twice? Right, 286 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:37.159 They tell the laws and then later on they invoke 287 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:37.679 the laws. 288 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.440 Yeah, like two hours and thirty minutes later. 289 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.159 And then they have a we're going to roll around 290 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:46.000 on the ground fight, which is like one of the 291 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.320 weirdest end battles I've ever seen, where they just roll 292 00:15:49.399 --> 00:15:51.120 over top of each other. So yeah, I think I'm 293 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.559 right there with it, Carroll. As far as these characters. 294 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:55.759 Being gay, the other thing I wanted to bring up 295 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:58.960 real quick about the fight, if it's not dereeling more 296 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.879 about the home eratus. I watched the fight, and I 297 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:05.159 had a similar reaction to you, because it reminded me 298 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:10.919 of like a bad TV fight, And on one hand, 299 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:13.679 it was not a good fight, and on the other hand, 300 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:16.879 it was not a pointedly bad fight. That was a 301 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:22.519 criticism of using violence between leaders to decide who runs things. 302 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:27.720 As the basis for America's future. Instead, it's just like 303 00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:31.200 two guys kind of rolling around on the ground. 304 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:34.279 The other thing that really, I think frustrated me and 305 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:37.759 also made me my theory on why Kevin Costner also 306 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:42.679 deliberately made this character not know an alpha male is 307 00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:45.879 nowhere in the movie. Are we led to believe Kevin 308 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:51.200 Costner is a warrior? Right? We understand he sees a 309 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:53.879 survivor in the book. We know, you know, there's a 310 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:56.799 different story to him in the book, but he's never 311 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:00.879 seen as like a physical fighter, right. He survives by 312 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:05.279 scavenger and doing Shakespeare and in this movie, like he 313 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:07.759 seems to be good on a horse. Okay, that's you know, 314 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:10.279 he learned that and figured that out. That's fine, and 315 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:13.920 he's clever in you know, the steps he takes to survive. 316 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:16.799 But there is nothing that makes sense. Where Where did 317 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:18.480 he learn to punch? Where did he learn to train? 318 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:20.880 Where did he learn to shoot? So the idea that 319 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:23.119 he has all the confidence of the world to just 320 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:27.440 physically take on this guy who has run an army 321 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:32.599 now for many years and who we know has physically 322 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:36.039 been challenged and overcome it, I don't know. I like 323 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:39.079 to think that in a big surge of adrenaline, if 324 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:42.759 somebody was trying to like hurt my niece or my cat, 325 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.920 I would physically if all I had, and maybe gouge 326 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:49.839 an eyeball out. But I have no reason to think 327 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:52.240 that I could like take on Ronda Rousey in a 328 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.839 fight and win. And it just doesn't make sense for 329 00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:59.519 the film to end on this note. Like I get 330 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:01.400 that you need, oh, it's action, so we do need 331 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:05.519 it to end in action, but it makes no sense 332 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:07.720 for the even attitude. 333 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:10.640 There's a certain class of movies that one of my 334 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.160 friends used to call Holideck Adventures, and it feels like 335 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:16.839 a little bit like that, Like I having watched a 336 00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:20.200 fan edit where they re edited it. They don't show 337 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:24.640 him in being kidnapped and stuff until the end when 338 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.799 he reveals the eight on his arm and challenges General 339 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:29.839 Beth of the Heem. Then there's a flashback back to 340 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.240 his training, so you can say, okay, he and you 341 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:35.519 could do that with the regular edit that he learned 342 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:39.039 how to fight then, but it doesn't feel like that 343 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:43.960 it because it feels like Kevin Costner should be in 344 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:46.400 charge and everyone should be listening to him and he's 345 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.880 good at everything because he's the protagonist. I don't know 346 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:51.720 if you noticed this as much as I did, but 347 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:55.680 like around that time, that's also when he starts grabbing, 348 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:58.799 Like he grabs that Scout and tells her she's not 349 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.240 allowed to Scout, pulls her off the horse and shoves 350 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:04.279 her away, and he's like really physical with the woman 351 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.440 that he's in love with. And I don't know how 352 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.400 your emotional arc of my leadership is. I'm a man 353 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.039 and I'm standing up, and I'm using physical violence too, 354 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.119 because it's the only thing that will stop another angry 355 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.759 white man who uses physical violence. So this army I 356 00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:23.839 gathered doesn't get to do anything. 357 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:29.200 It's so having it both ways because then he he 358 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:33.119 doesn't kill Bethlehem, he doesn't let ordlg and Mercury do it. 359 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:35.720 But yet, oh no, no, where it's okay because Breathlon's gonna 360 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:37.680 try to shoot this other guy shoots him, We're fine. 361 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.000 The guy who shoots him Joe Santos, the getty character 362 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:46.359 who has been astrated by Bethlehem and had his tongue 363 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:49.559 caught out right, And yeah, that's that whole thing. Like 364 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.960 this is such a problem of these movies in the nineties, 365 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:55.160 and I think still a problem today. The whole the 366 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:57.759 good guy cannot kill the bad guy. The bad guy 367 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:01.359 has to fall from a light and impale himself on 368 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:05.160 a conveniently placed spiked fence, or somebody else has to 369 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:07.519 kill the bad guy for him. I mean, even if. 370 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:10.599 It's it's very Easecode esque in it. 371 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:14.279 Yeah, even if it's Al Powell killing you know, the 372 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.400 blonde guy and Diehard, you know. But yeah, like Geddy 373 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.960 has to get that redemption because now he has to 374 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:23.839 get his manhood back. He has to get his gun 375 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:24.599 off somehow. 376 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:28.319 It's such attention for me that it has to be 377 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:32.759 about manhood when the problem is manhood in particularly white masculinity. 378 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:36.400 Especially if we talk about the book, I mean Britain's book. 379 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:39.400 I won't say it's the best thing I ever read 380 00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:43.039 in my entire life. He definitely feels very beholden. I mean, 381 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:46.720 he makes a theater sturgeon reference at one point, like 382 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:50.359 calls some you know, like a haul or something, names 383 00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:53.720 it after a sturgeon. It feels very pulpy. It feels 384 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.960 like good pulp science fiction. And he does what a 385 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:01.200 good pulp science fiction guy does. He explores a lot 386 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:05.359 of interesting ideas and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, 387 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:07.759 but it is a science fiction book and so I 388 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:11.720 like that. Towards the end, we find out that the 389 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:16.240 Bethlehem character who's not named Bethlehem in the book, that 390 00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:19.559 he is an augmented human being. So him and his 391 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:22.200 two generals or two captains. 392 00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:23.680 Or whatever siers super soldiers. 393 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:28.119 Yeah, they're all augments. And then the guy George Powatan, 394 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:32.039 he's also augmented, but he's like the next generation, which 395 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:34.440 is kind of funny because they actually have a universal 396 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:38.079 soldier playing in this movie that's as close to it as. 397 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.279 We get, you know, like, and they hate it that 398 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.519 the people they're like the his army and slaves and 399 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:49.720 stuff who they're showing the movie for. Bethlin's people hate 400 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:51.559 it and they love the sound of music. 401 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:54.000 They just want the Julie Anders, which is so funny 402 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.400 because we just covered Welcome to Whoop Woop earlier this year, 403 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:00.880 which is a whole city in the outback where all 404 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:05.279 they do is watch Rogerson's and Emmerstein musicals and there's 405 00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:07.880 a whole thing about the sound of music in there, 406 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.720 which was hilarious to see this and have them play like, 407 00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:15.599 you know, shitty projected version of sound of music, and 408 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.359 here we are, I think the same year they were 409 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.599 doing this here for me, there are like three main 410 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.920 things that are going on inside of Brin's book, and 411 00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:26.480 he even basically says it right towards the end of 412 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:29.960 the book, as the Postman is thinking about things, He's like, 413 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.240 all right, so, yeah, my whole thing about being this 414 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:38.079 Postman has helped bring back society, you know, whether I 415 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:40.599 liked it or not. He basically knows that his legend 416 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:43.559 has been co opted and has become something that is 417 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:46.400 becoming a fabric of this new world. But then there's 418 00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:49.920 two other things that are happening at the same time. 419 00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:57.839 One is there's a fake supercomputer called Cyclops, and Cyclops 420 00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.839 is basically it's like the Wizard of Oz was a guy, yes, 421 00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:03.400 behind the scenes who's giving answer. 422 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:05.240 Very directly, because I think he said as man behind 423 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:06.799 the curtain like five times in that chapter. 424 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:10.160 I thought at first, when we got to cyclop said 425 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:13.799 it was going to turn into Colossus, the Feben product. Yeah, 426 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:16.039 and it would be like, oh, well shit, this guy, 427 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:19.240 like this computer actually wants to take over everything, And 428 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:21.279 I thought it would be a real like oh my god, 429 00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:22.839 how do I get out of here? Kind of thing? 430 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:24.200 But no, it's funny. 431 00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:26.160 I thought. I was like, oh, it's more con people 432 00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:27.519 a con. 433 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:31.359 It is another con. Yeah. And then the third part, 434 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:34.440 which is actually very genuine, Like you know, I think 435 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.640 at the beginning of the book he mentions less strata, 436 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:41.599 and then that comes through the entire book, especially when 437 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.279 it comes to this character of Dana. I think it 438 00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:50.279 is who I don't think she really has a character 439 00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:52.559 like that in this movie. 440 00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:56.759 No, no, yeah, there's no no here. 441 00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:00.720 They did standard sort of screenplaying where they're like, we 442 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.200 need to have like efficiency of character. 443 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:07.200 One woman, yes, yeah, we have one young woman love interest. 444 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.759 And she will be beautiful obviously, and she will be 445 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.720 strong in the sense of, you know, she can shoot well, 446 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.240 and she's able to defend herself and able to be 447 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:19.359 pregnant and doing a whole lot of physical things that 448 00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:21.839 probably a woman that pregnant in you know, an apocalypse 449 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.599 wouldn't be able to do. And she'll be able to, like, 450 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.960 you know, say things when they need to be said 451 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:31.200 for Kevin Costner to hear. But the book and I 452 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:34.119 don't think it's done overly well but I like I 453 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.160 like the effort of it. What's interesting is whenever David 454 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:39.839 brand all the entries I read with him about this movie, 455 00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:42.000 he has a lot to say about a lot of things, 456 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:44.480 and he actually has the best attitude of a writer 457 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:47.680 to an adaptation, which is like, look, the movie something different. 458 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:50.759 I really like that. I think they captured the spirit 459 00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:53.880 and what I was. You know, this the the theme 460 00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:56.720 I was trying to tell. Do I think they did it? Well, No, 461 00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.480 but I appreciate it and it's fine. But he'll complain 462 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:03.119 about certain aspects of the movie and choices that were made. 463 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:06.160 But I didn't seem to ever really mention the Dina 464 00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.759 storyline because in the book it is it's basically these 465 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:12.359 women saying this one woman who has been born in 466 00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:16.359 the apocalypse essentially like grew up without knowing experiencing much 467 00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:20.720 of the real world, but had books and had access 468 00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:23.000 to people who could tell her things and kind of 469 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:26.599 comes to the conclusion that well, women never did enough. 470 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:29.680 Women let this happen in a way because they didn't 471 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:32.599 fight it. They always relied on the men to do it. So, 472 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:34.920 you know what, we are going to do something different, 473 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.559 and we are going to go fight, and she does 474 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:40.880 and she and it works and doesn't work. It feels 475 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:43.000 like the novel's kind of saying like it was nice 476 00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:44.759 of that idea, but it didn't really do much. But 477 00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:47.880 it also did because it gets like she sends letters 478 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:50.039 saying what they're doing, which get intercepted but also get 479 00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:51.799 read by women who are kept at slaves who then 480 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:54.119 also rise up. So there was kind of this like 481 00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:58.920 minor attempt at sort of feminism in the book we 482 00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:00.000 do not get in them. 483 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.640 I'm actually glad we didn't get it in the movie. 484 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:07.559 I watched one of the special features you sent us 485 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.599 that was David Brinn talking about the movie, and he 486 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:12.880 sort of indirectly talks about there were a lot of 487 00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:15.200 ideas in the book that didn't get to the movie, 488 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:19.480 and I'm like, sir, you're so lucky. We're all so 489 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:23.720 lucky that Dana and her like women should the guilt 490 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:26.440 she feels on behalf of women, and the idea that 491 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.119 women are all like there's three kinds of men. There's 492 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:32.119 like good men, bad men, and then like middle men 493 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:35.960 who are useless. And I'm like, honestly, I appreciate that 494 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:40.200 he's trying, but it still sounds like a man talking 495 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.079 about men. For the most part, like. 496 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:44.000 It feels like a man writing a sci fi novel, 497 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:45.640 which is what they almost always end up. 498 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:49.119 Ya, especially in nineteen eighty two, where you have to have, 499 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:52.200 like I have to share my very strange theories about 500 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.480 society from my very rational science fiction perspective. 501 00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:58.960 Those are the big three pillars that the book is 502 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:02.119 built around. And then they just cut out everything other 503 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:08.200 than the Postman himself. And that's because we've got Costner here. 504 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:10.920 Yeah, but yet we don't cut out of what four 505 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:12.880 minute love scene. 506 00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:16.519 Reading the earlier drafts of the screenplay because like, so, 507 00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:19.680 thank you so much for Carol for letting me know 508 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:23.079 the original screenplay, or at least what the fifth draft 509 00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:27.400 I think of. Roth's screenplay is out on archive dot org, 510 00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:32.920 and I was expecting something completely different when I started 511 00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:35.559 reading it because of all of the bad things that 512 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:40.200 Brynn had to say about Roth's screenplay. Brynn calls the 513 00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:45.160 Roth drafts the demonically horrific script of Eric Roth, a 514 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:50.119 truly evil mishmash that reversed every moral message from the book. 515 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:54.440 After that alone, I was positively disposed towards Kevin Costner 516 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:59.279 and Brian Helgeland, and he bashes it quite a few times. 517 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:03.000 There was like a ninth nineteen ninety eight essay that 518 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:04.799 he wrote, and. 519 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:07.839 What are some of the differences in that version? 520 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:12.359 Frankly, I don't see a lot of differences. Like the 521 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:16.400 differences for me were a lot of structural stuff like 522 00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:20.359 we don't have we don't meet Bethlehem until thirty minutes 523 00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:24.039 into the movie, so precisely right around the time that 524 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.039 the first act should be over and the second act 525 00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:30.200 should be starting. Though it also runs one hundred and 526 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.960 thirty seven pages, so it's also over long. 527 00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:35.799 Would have been very just the hell. 528 00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:37.720 Glenn draft as well. I think it's almost the exact 529 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:39.680 same page count. 530 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:42.599 But remember you have to add another thirty minutes because 531 00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:43.799 half of those scenes are in slowly. 532 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.680 That's true. That's true. Or they do that strange cross 533 00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:51.400 fade effect a ton in this movie, and I'm like, 534 00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:52.079 what are oh? 535 00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:57.599 I love it itific seen nineties epicness of between the score, 536 00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:02.359 the SlowMo and some of those filming decisions. I will 537 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.319 say this is one of those movies why I'm glad 538 00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:06.720 I watched it now and not ten years ago, twenty 539 00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.319 years ago, because I think there is something like we're 540 00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.880 we're in that perfect era where there is something incredibly 541 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:15.799 charming about the mid nineties because it's long enough ago 542 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:18.680 and we remember, like, oh I was a completely different 543 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:21.799 age than so to experience it now it feels so 544 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:25.480 charming and nostalgic and some of those things in terms 545 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:28.519 of the filming style, they didn't get me in that, 546 00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:31.519 like the slow motion was not like, you know, welling 547 00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:34.200 tears in my eyes, but it was like I could 548 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:38.799 I couldn't help but smile at how earnest. Some of 549 00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.400 those filming choices were just in being a mid nineties movie. 550 00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:46.359 It did not work for me, and I think they 551 00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:50.519 should have made some different choices. I appreciate that it 552 00:29:50.599 --> 00:29:53.119 is like we are in a formula rut now, like 553 00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.480 screenplays have never been I think, more formulaic than they 554 00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.799 are now. That is an effectual thing, I realized, but 555 00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:02.960 it it feels very much that way, and so I 556 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:06.839 give it credit for that, and it's I appreciate watching it. Then, 557 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.079 I just wish I had managed to find more personal 558 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.319 charm in it, rather than thinking, imagine what Albert Pion 559 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:17.559 could have done with this material. 560 00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:19.839 And this budget Carl, he's a postman. 561 00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:22.559 I was talking a little bit to Mike about how 562 00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:25.920 punishing I found the score. And it's not even like 563 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:28.519 by itself, because I think by itself it's a fairly 564 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:32.599 standard sort of neo Western sweeping this to score, but 565 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:36.400 it's relentless, and it's like, we know that you might 566 00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:39.400 think it's funny and campy that he's a postman and 567 00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:44.039 we're showing slow motion romantic shops of post offices and 568 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.000 mail delivering, but we want you to feel this the 569 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:48.640 right way. 570 00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:52.759 It can only be so angry at a movie that 571 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:56.720 is so earnest. There's a quote I'll I'll read it 572 00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:58.960 from one of the art I think it might have 573 00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:01.359 been David Brand's own, like either his essay about this 574 00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:02.880 movie or a quote he had to say about it, 575 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:06.799 which was Watching Kevin Costner's three hour Epic is a 576 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:09.000 bit like having a great, big golden retriever jump on 577 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:11.319 your lap and lick your face while waving a flag 578 00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:14.920 tied to its tail. It's big, floppy, uncoordinated, over eager, 579 00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:18.599 sometimes gorgeous, occasionally a bit goofy, and so big hearted 580 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.000 that something inside of you has to give. That is, 581 00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:24.880 if you like that sort of thing that's the novelists 582 00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:28.519 talking about this movie. And I mean, I think he's right. 583 00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:31.640 Like my dad a few years ago has always been 584 00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:33.720 somebody that had an American flag up, like my dad's 585 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:37.039 a Vietnam vet, and he realized a couple of years 586 00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:41.079 ago how he got so nervous that him having a 587 00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:44.960 flag up would mean people think that he supports Trump, 588 00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:47.759 and so he made his own like he actually like 589 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:50.559 drew a little like Biden sign underneath it at the time. 590 00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:53.480 But it is that idea of like, oh, when you 591 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.880 like loving America and this is such an Americana movie 592 00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:02.400 right that it's soured just so unfortunate that you watch 593 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:03.960 it today and like you want to just love the 594 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.799 goofiness of it, But there is this other element watching 595 00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:09.480 it where you're like, oh, it's so like corny and 596 00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:11.359 it loves the USA and this and that, and then 597 00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:13.680 you sit back you're like, what kind of movie would 598 00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:15.400 this be if you made it today? Like we're like, 599 00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:20.359 who is this made for now? And the weird politics 600 00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:23.559 of its parts I don't know, like where they map 601 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:26.359 to today is just this strange thing that it's easier 602 00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:28.160 not to think about because then you can still appreciate 603 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:31.200 this as just a really goofy art effect if it's done. 604 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:33.640 I feel like if it were made today, it would 605 00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:35.720 have like one of two endings. One would be the 606 00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:42.319 Tarantino they shoot Bathlon and the head and make sassy 607 00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.839 cool reference remark. The other one is what I wish 608 00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:48.000 they had done, since they weren't going to give us 609 00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:51.319 a good fight or an epic battle with the army 610 00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:56.440 that he apparently raised somewhere somehow, was a trial, like 611 00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:58.920 they have three hours, cut out a little bit of 612 00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:03.559 that slow motion time and give us frontier justice trial 613 00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:08.720 where Bethlehem is sentenced and then executed for what he's done. 614 00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.759 That's how I think slow motion jury selection for it. Yeah, 615 00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:16.480 the jury's slowly coming into the box. 616 00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:19.960 Gavele Gavel that. 617 00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.200 Was well he just did JFK. So yeah, he would 618 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:25.799 have been right there in Jim Garrison mode. One of 619 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:27.920 my favorite parts of the book is when they talk 620 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:33.519 about after they've routed the three Augments, that they go 621 00:33:33.559 --> 00:33:36.759 around and hang every wholeness that they find, and I'm 622 00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:39.400 just like, wow, that seems like a really good way 623 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.400 to get rid of these confederates. That just seems like 624 00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:43.440 a really smart thing. 625 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:46.640 Well in the book has a lot more about kind 626 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:50.359 of the politics of war, right about the propaganda that 627 00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:53.880 both sides start doing because the side, or you know, 628 00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:57.880 the protagonist's side, one of the things they started doing 629 00:33:57.960 --> 00:34:00.920 is desecrating female bodies to make it seem as though 630 00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:04.960 they're actually assaulted because they know that we'll rile their 631 00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:10.079 people up to fight, whereas if it's just specifically yeah, 632 00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:13.599 and again, really Glad Costner didn't go that route because 633 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:15.000 I don't know that this movie was never gonna be 634 00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:18.960 quip for that. But at the same time, basically the 635 00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.960 bad guys who go around taking things because it's also 636 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:25.159 the post amocalypse, that's kind of what you gotta do. 637 00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:27.880 And then you have like the good guys who are 638 00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:33.679 just blind dancing, and it's kind of very simple in 639 00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:35.599 that way. So I guess there's a part of me 640 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.679 watching this movie thinking like, well, how are any of 641 00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:41.400 these people going to expect to like ever survive a 642 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:44.079 winter when this was just going to keep happening, Like 643 00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:46.920 they had no defenses, they had no seem to have 644 00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:50.119 no plans. It seemed like the whole lists were very 645 00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:52.480 specific about who they took, which was only young men. 646 00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:57.079 Presumably they had women somewhere for other purposes. But watching 647 00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:59.159 it like you kind of understood why anybody would join them, 648 00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:01.880 because other wise you're just line dancing until you get 649 00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:02.719 raided and killed. 650 00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:05.960 Very much the grasshoppers versus the ants. It feels like 651 00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:10.440 the Wholeness actually have a plan, whereas the good guys 652 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.639 quote unquote are just like happy little people. I mean, 653 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:17.360 there is a moment where the Wholeness people come into 654 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:20.320 town and I'm like, you know, you mentioned seven Samurai. 655 00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:22.079 I'm like, oh, this is just like the seven Samurai. 656 00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:24.719 They're coming in here, but they never raised the army, 657 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:25.320 you know, they. 658 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:27.920 Just have Yeah, well it's one guy. They just have 659 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:28.360 one guy. 660 00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:31.079 Yeah, it's basically you know, if you had just to 661 00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:34.880 Shiro Maffune or you know, like the goofy version of 662 00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:38.000 Tashiro Maffoune that's in Seven Samurai. 663 00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:42.360 And he makes the same mistake early on, like when 664 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:46.800 they capture Ford Lincoln, Mercury, Ford Mercury Lincoln. I don't 665 00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:47.719 remember which order. 666 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:50.280 No, you're right, the first way, Okay. 667 00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:55.239 When they capture him, he is the first postal inspector 668 00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:58.079 who's played who's called something different. I mean He's called 669 00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:00.440 the same thing initially in the movie, and then and 670 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:02.360 then he takes on the Ford Lincoln. 671 00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:05.480 Mercury, Dame Johnny Stevens's got to be Johnny, just like 672 00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:08.960 Johnny good Boy from Battlefield Earth, which was another movie 673 00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:09.800 I kept thinking of. 674 00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:15.800 But when the Wholeness kidnap him and decide to hold 675 00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:19.679 him because of the psychological value he has because there's 676 00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.480 only one guy resisting him, and we never see him, 677 00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:26.119 he doesn't do any of the organizing. Ford Lincoln Mercury 678 00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:30.239 does all the organizing. But the Postman decides to disband 679 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.239 his postal service, and the militia that they have also 680 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:38.400 become like that's a solution, Like if he's just like, well, 681 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:42.000 stop fighting you and then you'll stop. And you were 682 00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:45.159 talking about watching these things in these times, I feel 683 00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:48.400 like I've seen so many people with power, who I 684 00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:52.199 guess have never been subject to bullying or abuse or 685 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:56.800 whatever making that same dumb fucking decision. It isn't an 686 00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:59.960 incentive to them to come in and attack them more. 687 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:03.400 Well, I think it could have been, because you have 688 00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:07.320 I mean, Kevin Coster essentially realizes what have I done? 689 00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:10.599 I just wanted a hot meal and so I acted 690 00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:12.639 like a postman, and when I did that, suddenly I 691 00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:16.639 have changed all I have suddenly put all these people 692 00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:18.840 in danger because now everybody thinks there's a cause to 693 00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:21.159 fight for, and so they're fighting for it. We see 694 00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:23.320 it's mostly young people. It's you know, it's a lot 695 00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:25.599 of kids, a lot of teenagers, a lot of before 696 00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:28.599 they're famous people, Like he realizes, Oh, I shouldn't have 697 00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:31.400 I'm not responsible for this. But the problem is, because 698 00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:34.519 of the movie is three hours, there's not like it 699 00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:36.840 would have been really easy to tell that story tightly 700 00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.239 for him to have realized, oh, I went too far. 701 00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:41.679 I'm not equiped for this, we shouldn't be doing it. 702 00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:44.559 But so much has happened between when he started that 703 00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.000 and when he makes that decision that when he makes 704 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:48.880 that decision, it feels like it comes out of nowhere, 705 00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:52.599 because nine things have happened over the course of forty 706 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:55.719 five minutes in different subplots that you don't even know 707 00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:56.639 why he's doing this. 708 00:37:57.719 --> 00:37:59.760 Oh, I understood why he was doing it. I guess 709 00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:01.800 what I'm saying, though, is that the movie is in 710 00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:04.320 a trap that the Book of Boyds, because the book 711 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:08.639 he has that same thing but he also eventually realizes 712 00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:14.000 that other people have agency and the Postman in this 713 00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:18.039 his solution to it is, I am always responsible. And 714 00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:20.079 it's like they took that question. They keep showing in 715 00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:23.119 the book, like who's responsible, Who's going to be responsible 716 00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:27.559 for them? Like they're also responsible from themselves as adults, 717 00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.880 Like they're making these terrible choices. 718 00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:32.880 But Kevin Costner has to be in charge in this movie. 719 00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:36.440 I understand why he would have wanted to make this movie. 720 00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:38.039 I understand why you would have wanted to star in 721 00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:41.079 this movie. The best thing he could have done was 722 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:45.719 direct someone else, aside from the ego aspect of it, 723 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:49.679 where obviously he could not see himself objectively while making 724 00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:56.280 this movie. He's clearly so determined to make the Postman 725 00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:01.119 this savior character who is torn and who doesn't want 726 00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:02.599 to do the wrong thing, and so he makes it. 727 00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:07.760 If he had been played by somebody that was for like, 728 00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:11.559 you could buy as fucking up so much more. If 729 00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:13.400 he was not a leading man type, it would have 730 00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:16.639 been so much like put Giovanni Ribisi in that role instead, 731 00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:18.159 and it would have been a more interesting vie. But 732 00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:21.360 Tom Petty and Tom Petty as the Postman. I'm there 733 00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:22.960 as an actor. 734 00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:24.719 Tom Petty's a really good musician. 735 00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:26.440 We're looking at the movie. 736 00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:28.920 We're looking at are you kind of love what they 737 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:31.480 did there? Rile Like he's putting himself right, that's. 738 00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:33.760 Here, we're just thing because there's well, first off, he 739 00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:36.000 died in twenty seventeen. But the other thing is that 740 00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:40.400 he would have been like seventy according to the timeline 741 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:44.639 of this, So maybe maybe Tom Petty's a vampire. Yeah, 742 00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:47.480 that was such a weird cameo to have, and just 743 00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:51.079 that whole like double i've heard of you and then oh, 744 00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:52.559 I've heard of you kind of thing. 745 00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:54.840 Yeah, I've heard about you. 746 00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:58.800 I've heard of you, and even that that having Concer 747 00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:03.719 basically makes it so Tom Petty says, you're more famous 748 00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:07.320 than I am. Postman, like how much bigger ego? 749 00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:11.159 And Tom Petty actually in that scene comes off is 750 00:40:11.239 --> 00:40:14.800 less awkward to me, Like he actually seems more like 751 00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:20.280 the kind of guy that Kevin Costner's theoretically trying to play, 752 00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:23.320 but he's not because he's trying to play a good 753 00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:28.039 super hero. He's not playing like a con guy who 754 00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:31.039 feels a bit in over his head, but is like, well, 755 00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:33.800 I'm responsible for people now, which is exactly what Tom 756 00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:36.400 Petty is. He's like, I was a musician in a 757 00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:39.079 weirdo and now I run a town on the Hoover Dam, 758 00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:41.320 like where our little. 759 00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:45.119 Boy doesn't know what a postman is. Oh that moment, 760 00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:50.119 what's a postman? And everybody stops and turns. It turns 761 00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.719 and turns to look at a little boy. So they 762 00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.639 have to tell this little boy what a postman is. 763 00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:59.119 Just the pacing evidence stuff is so strange. It's like 764 00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:03.199 he he comes to the first town and is like, oh, hey, 765 00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:05.760 I just found this uniform. I'm going to pretend to 766 00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:08.519 be this postman. And it's interesting that this whole thing 767 00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:10.480 is just built on a lie. Like the first time 768 00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:13.159 I ever heard what the plot was, I was like, really, 769 00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:16.079 that's what this movie's about. But he comes to the city, 770 00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:21.119 finds the one person who actually does have a letter, 771 00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:23.719 and that's kind of his saving grace. The mayor of 772 00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:25.719 the town is still just like or sheriff is like 773 00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:29.199 I don't fucking believe you, you know, like no way, And 774 00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:32.719 I love that Grey. I love that character actor. And 775 00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:37.000 then he goes to the next town and and it 776 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:39.920 feels like time is strange in this four three hour movie. 777 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:43.320 This passage of time makes note. I wrote it because 778 00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:44.880 I was taking you know, so I was watching it 779 00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:47.039 and then I was like putting my nose together, and 780 00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:48.840 so I was like cutting and pasting and movies around, 781 00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:51.639 and I realized I had passage of time question mark 782 00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:55.960 three different ways in my notes because I didn't understand it. 783 00:41:56.199 --> 00:41:59.159 Because the opening of the movie, right you said, oh, 784 00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:01.360 you know he finds the bost outfit. No, that's like 785 00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:05.480 thirty five minutes in, because first he's kidnapped by Bethlehem's people, 786 00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:08.679 And how long ago was that? How long was he 787 00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:11.599 there for? Was that when he was trained to become 788 00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:14.440 a killer, Like he's there for what seems like a 789 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:18.440 few days at most. You start building up relationships there 790 00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:21.679 where there's like intriguing characters that you're thinking, like, I 791 00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:24.559 forget the actor's name, but the guy who's in the 792 00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:26.519 wire and for some reason doesn't have an IMDb picture. 793 00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:29.199 You're like, oh, like this guy's like, oh great, he's 794 00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:30.800 in this movie. I can't wait. And then he dies 795 00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:33.880 very quickly, and I was sad, but that's thirty minutes. 796 00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:37.159 And then it's Postman and then postman to another town, 797 00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:40.440 post me to another town, and it's is it years 798 00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:42.400 or is it weeks? And you're thinking, oh, well, we'll 799 00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:44.679 be able to tell by a pregnant woman, thank you, 800 00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:47.000 But they just randomly tell us when she's pregnant enough you. 801 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:50.519 For yeah, because you have a literal ticking clock in 802 00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:54.480 this movie with this woman's pregnancy. I didn't remember him 803 00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:57.679 stopping at two towns before the last one, Like I 804 00:42:57.800 --> 00:42:59.840 just thought he stopped at two towns, the one with 805 00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:03.000 the mayor sheriff that doesn't like him, and then the 806 00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:05.519 other one where it's like hey, yeah, welcome on in 807 00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:08.760 and we're reading mail and hope the enemies at the gate, 808 00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:11.239 and then we have this huge blow up and then 809 00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:14.960 like he sees Olivia Williams again, the abby character who 810 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.719 he had slept with at the first town, and I'm like, okay, 811 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.760 how like you said, how much time has passed because 812 00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:24.599 it's like she's all beaten to shit and she's like, oh, 813 00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:26.519 he came at me every night but he was never 814 00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:28.320 able to get me blah blah blah blah blah. And 815 00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:30.760 I'm like, well, how much time has passed? Like and 816 00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:34.039 again like is that you know? He even asked, is 817 00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:36.559 it my kid or is it Bethlehem's kid? You know, 818 00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:38.719 Oh well he could never get it up. Oh okay, 819 00:43:38.840 --> 00:43:41.559 so you know, questions his manhood and stuff. But I'm 820 00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:44.599 just like, how much time passed? And then they fuck 821 00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:48.480 off to that cabin for a long time, which is 822 00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:52.119 definitely not in the book, Like that's much more of like, Okay, 823 00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:55.039 now I'm gonna go find cyclops and do all this 824 00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:57.519 kind of stuff, and you know, the world turns as 825 00:43:57.559 --> 00:44:00.599 things are happening, Like Abby is left in the dust 826 00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:03.400 when it comes to the book, like she they have 827 00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:06.840 the same relationship, you know, but Michael doesn't die, her 828 00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:10.079 husband doesn't die. He's absolutely fine. He doesn't have to 829 00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:12.199 burn a flag, which you know is just like, oh 830 00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:14.639 my god. I had to look up, like when was 831 00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:17.440 the flag burning controversy in the US, because growing up 832 00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:20.039 in the nineties, that was a huge thing. It really 833 00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:22.280 came to a head in nineteen eighty five. They still 834 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:25.239 talk about it today. They go off to this cabin 835 00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:27.760 and they're just hanging out there for the longest time. 836 00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:30.079 But again, I'm like, how much time is passed? Even 837 00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:32.920 when it comes to the snow falling on his face 838 00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:35.360 and then like dissolve and all of a sudden we 839 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:38.840 are in snow. Just the continuity of this movie is 840 00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:41.440 so strange, even when it comes to like, you know, 841 00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:44.719 I mentioned the weird dissolves and stuff, there's that whole 842 00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:47.760 thing where he you know you mentioned this before, as 843 00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:50.320 far as him having to turn his hat around, like, oh, yeah, 844 00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:52.400 we used to do this when we were kids, turns 845 00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:58.159 his hat around, he rides off, and then smack dab 846 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:02.199 before he goes to I guess it's Tom petty'stown, the 847 00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:05.840 one that he names Elvis, where it's on top of 848 00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:09.519 the big building and stuff. Suddenly his hats turned back 849 00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:12.920 around and he has that huge, maudlin fucking scene with 850 00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:16.119 that little kid who's holding up the letter do not you. 851 00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:19.239 Dare insult the best scene of this movie. It's me 852 00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:22.400 so great that they had to be showing you twice 853 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:27.159 and immortalize it in Bronz's Emily as a person who 854 00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:32.679 has watched a shit ton of Hallmark movies, how hallmarky 855 00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:34.880 does some of this feel to you? Like, because I 856 00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:37.400 notice you're a little more impervious. 857 00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:37.920 To this than Mike and I. 858 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:42.800 Oh, especially, I think the sort of like country wife 859 00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:46.320 aspect of it, where this sort of like simple way 860 00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:48.800 of living. Right, all the women in this movie look 861 00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:52.280 great considering it's an apocalypse, right, they all still have 862 00:45:52.360 --> 00:45:54.280 like there you have Peggy lived in there, who's always 863 00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:57.119 just perfect looking, and they all have like they figured 864 00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:01.480 out how to make it work, factionalize, and you get, 865 00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:04.079 you know, the kids who are all so earnest. So 866 00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:06.719 when you get a scene like that of that little boy, 867 00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:09.199 because it's not just oh there's a little no, no, no, no. 868 00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:13.079 First this little boy, here's the pitter pattern of the postman. 869 00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:16.320 And he grabs his letter and he runs outside. He 870 00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:18.320 stands there and he holds it up as his mother 871 00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:22.320 and again his mother was like this perfect blonde far woman. 872 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:24.960 All their their hair like they have bangs, like it's 873 00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:27.960 like they've all taken care of themselves. And you know, 874 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:30.320 he just holds it up and Kevic Concer just runs 875 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:32.480 right by him. And a little boy is just so 876 00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:35.480 devastated standing there holding that letter and he his arm 877 00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:37.920 sliwly goes down as he turns to his mother and says, 878 00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:42.800 I was too late. But then somehow, somehow, which I 879 00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:44.760 don't know how, Keema Concert didn't see him when he 880 00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:46.840 was writing, because there's it's like the thing on the 881 00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:50.239 walking down had always drove me crazy. How there's no sounds, right, 882 00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:53.440 there's no traffic, there's no fire alarms, and yet a 883 00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:55.239 character can just be like sitting on a lake and 884 00:46:55.239 --> 00:46:57.039 all of a sudden, yeah, like his zombie comes u 885 00:46:57.039 --> 00:46:58.880 behind them and eats them. Why did they not hear 886 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.519 the like shuffle them? And it feels like that, right, 887 00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:03.559 How did like kenn Costter's just like writing, how did 888 00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:05.039 he not see a kid standing in the middle of 889 00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:07.760 and I was looking for people with the letters exactly 890 00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:10.519 like the kid short, but he's he's got his letter 891 00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:13.480 up in the air and Schemagostter turns back and he 892 00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:16.360 just does a gallop and gallop and gallop and could 893 00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:19.840 have killed that child so easily and just grew himself. 894 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:24.280 And he's galloping away from the kid. But then when 895 00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:27.519 they cut to him, like kind of realizing or whatever, 896 00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:29.559 he's not that far away at all. He's like just 897 00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:31.519 at the end of like the the fence post. 898 00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:32.480 How far are you going? 899 00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:33.119 Hey? 900 00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:36.199 Look, how far are you going to the end of this? 901 00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:36.719 Fans? 902 00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:45.280 Okay, I'm Naved Johnson. 903 00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:52.000 What's your name? There, who we are, okay, thanks for 904 00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:52.599 the company. 905 00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:56.039 And then when he charged, like he turns to get 906 00:47:56.079 --> 00:47:58.800 the letter and keeps going full speed the other way, 907 00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:00.559 and you're like, is he just you know, he's got 908 00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:02.639 to turn around, Like did he forget which way he 909 00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:03.000 was going? 910 00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:03.360 No. 911 00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:07.440 It is so corny and cheesy, and I loved it, 912 00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:09.519 and the fact that it comes up and it is 913 00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:12.559 the final shot of the movie, that we get a coda, 914 00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:15.360 and that we get that moment literally in a bronze 915 00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:18.639 statue and a little boy now grown up and which 916 00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:21.960 and also again passage of time, right, because I think 917 00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:23.840 we're led to believe that that should have been like 918 00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:27.719 how many years later, like thirty plus years. This guy 919 00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:33.000 somehow looks younger than Mary Stuart Masterson, who's playing Kevin 920 00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:37.079 Costner's daughter at that point. Just confusing, but that he 921 00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:42.199 says twenty forty eight and twenty thirteen, yeah, or maybe 922 00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:45.199 twenty forty three like the book I think was twenty 923 00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:48.559 forty eight, So that guy was in his early forties. Right, 924 00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:52.000 He looked great for an apocalypse. You look pretty good. 925 00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:56.800 They're now in Saint Rose, which I didn't even realize 926 00:48:57.159 --> 00:49:01.800 how many times he mentioned Saint Rose in the final film, 927 00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:05.559 because going back to that Roth script, Saint Rose is 928 00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:08.679 a big thing, and that's like his like I've heard 929 00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:11.280 about this town, and we're gonna find Saint Rose and 930 00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:13.760 it's gonna be fantastic. And then he actually finds the 931 00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:16.440 town towards the end of of the screenplay and then 932 00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:20.199 like that is the paradise that he was imagining, and 933 00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:23.360 that's where the final confrontation all takes place is in 934 00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:26.920 this Saint Rose. They do have electricity. They end up 935 00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:30.800 like cutting power lines and electric cuting these holensts. 936 00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:35.480 Clearly there's they still have like cotton production because they 937 00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:38.320 all are end up in these lovely pastel outfits that 938 00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:41.599 you can get it like coals or something, because you know, 939 00:49:41.639 --> 00:49:44.480 for a good like the twenty years of the First Apocalypse, 940 00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:47.599 everybody's wearing rags and they're all brown. But then when 941 00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:49.280 we get that code to everybody is in like an 942 00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:50.719 easter pastel and they look lovely. 943 00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.840 I think it might have been a fashion choice because like, 944 00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:56.719 clearly they didn't have sewing machines, but they had gromet 945 00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:00.440 presses because everything was grammited in lace together. 946 00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:03.559 But at the end, like Marysuerpastrin has like these perfect 947 00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:06.599 like silver earrings and a silver necklace over her like 948 00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:10.760 little cant suit like Pastel looks skirt thing. And it 949 00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:13.679 just again felt very like like we we turn things 950 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:16.239 around pretty quickly after The Postman Saved the World. 951 00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:19.800 I would be very curious to watch this in terms 952 00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:23.519 of his facial hair as well, just because I feel 953 00:50:23.559 --> 00:50:25.960 like there is a yeah, he's got a lot of 954 00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:28.880 facial hair. He starts with the goatee, he comes to 955 00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.400 pine View with a full beard. I can't remember when 956 00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:35.039 he is suddenly he's clean shaven. 957 00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:37.840 I assume it's when he's after Abby, when he's sort 958 00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:39.880 of well, he's like trying to impress her a bit, 959 00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:42.239 all right, Yeah exactly, Yeah, yes, sir. 960 00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:44.760 And then when he's in the cabin he starts to 961 00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:45.480 grow it out again. 962 00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:45.840 Yeah. 963 00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:48.119 It's just like it changes all the time. It's kind 964 00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:50.440 of like the hat going backwards and forwards, you know, 965 00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:53.880 like it just the I mean, for a three hour movie, 966 00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:56.800 you would think you would have continuity, you know, pretty 967 00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:57.679 well licked. 968 00:50:58.159 --> 00:51:01.360 Or you'd have the complete lack of continuity, right because 969 00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:03.000 and I feel like that's true of like I think 970 00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:05.239 one of my first cases of being a kid, and 971 00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:09.079 like understanding that movies make mistakes was in Robin to 972 00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:11.400 Prince of Thieves, because there's a lot of moments like that. 973 00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:14.000 There's a lot of moments where like Kevin Costner sticks 974 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:17.159 his right arm up and Morgan Freeman grabs his left arm. 975 00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:19.320 Like there's like a lot of little things like that, 976 00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:21.320 a cup being filled and the cup being empty, going 977 00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:23.719 back and forth. And I feel like, in some ways, 978 00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:27.000 the bigger your movie is sometimes the messier that gets, 979 00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:30.119 just because you end up shuffling so much around. I wonder, 980 00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:32.320 and I didn't get to read either of the screenplays, 981 00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:35.880 but was this always the order? Or were some things 982 00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:39.159 moved in different places? Because it doesn't make sense how 983 00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:43.519 the time flows. I wouldn't be unreasonable for scene seventy 984 00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:44.880 two to have been seen fourteen. 985 00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:47.559 Why I don't think the stuff of the statue is 986 00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:49.360 in either draft. 987 00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:52.639 Kevin Gosstner just needed that statue. Where do we think 988 00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:53.559 the statue is? Now? 989 00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:56.079 If it were a Hallmark movie, you'd know that it 990 00:51:56.119 --> 00:52:01.000 would be like in Jasper or like just out side Victoria, 991 00:52:01.039 --> 00:52:03.079 British Columbia or something, and they'd be like, oh, we 992 00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:04.840 found the perfect statue to. 993 00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:06.880 Make a movie around it in three days. 994 00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:11.559 The Roth script has well, it's kind of got the 995 00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:14.480 postman doing a little bit of narration, but it's him 996 00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:17.199 talking to his mules. There's he's got multiple mules. 997 00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:23.559 Ah Bill Bill gets butchered and fed to Kevin Cosler, 998 00:52:23.719 --> 00:52:26.559 just like the water buffalo gets fed to h Tank 999 00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:28.960 Girl in Tink Girls coming out the year prior. 1000 00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.920 I think it was he's got the multiple mules in 1001 00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:34.599 the Wroth draft, and then there is one point where 1002 00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:37.000 a narrator just comes in and I don't think you 1003 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:40.320 ever find out who that narrator is. But then in 1004 00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:45.119 the you know, the Helgelin version, and in the final film, 1005 00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:47.679 which is pretty close, I would say to the Helgeland version, 1006 00:52:48.280 --> 00:52:51.880 you've got Hope the daughter. Of course her name is Hope. 1007 00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:54.079 It's got to be got to be Hope. You've got 1008 00:52:54.119 --> 00:52:57.599 her narrating at the beginning, and then we come back 1009 00:52:57.639 --> 00:53:00.400 at the end and she's talking about how brave he was, 1010 00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:03.320 and she's there at the statue unveiling, but there is 1011 00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:06.639 no statue, I don't think in the Helgelend version, and 1012 00:53:06.679 --> 00:53:08.920 there's no kid saying it's me. 1013 00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:12.280 As much as I had not seen most of this movie. 1014 00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:14.960 I also just kind of assumed certain things about it, 1015 00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:17.440 Like I assumed he died at the end once I 1016 00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:20.159 read the book, and I assumed he was not going 1017 00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:22.159 to be father to the child because he wasn't supposed 1018 00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:24.639 to be. And so realizing watching the movie of like 1019 00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:28.679 way he lives is the kid with that way it 1020 00:53:28.880 --> 00:53:33.079 just ends in this traditional way. It was so disappointing, 1021 00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:33.519 is it? 1022 00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:33.679 Oh? 1023 00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:34.239 Yeah, yeah? 1024 00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:37.519 It made your family in a post nuclear apocalypse. 1025 00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:40.679 It's an interesting thing of the novel that the idea 1026 00:53:40.719 --> 00:53:42.760 of like a lot of men are sterile and probably 1027 00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:46.840 women too because they're not getting vaccinated and it's the 1028 00:53:46.840 --> 00:53:50.000 apocalypse and things are happening. So the idea that it 1029 00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:53.559 would be like almost commonplace to have a body father, 1030 00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:56.760 that's something, right, that's a concept, and this movie like 1031 00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:59.199 gives that to you. And the scene like Olivia Williams 1032 00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:01.920 first scene where she's like flirting with him, where he 1033 00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:03.679 thinks she's flirting but really she's just trying to figure 1034 00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:06.320 out if he's syphilist. Like, that's a funny scene. It's 1035 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:09.440 kind of cute, like and if the movie like stayed 1036 00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:12.760 in that style and had fun with it, it could 1037 00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:15.880 have also been something instead, it just ultimately, you know, 1038 00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:18.639 twenty minutes labor later, Olivia Williams just has to be 1039 00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:20.360 like the suffering woman. 1040 00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:27.199 And it's a disappointment the problems that led to the 1041 00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:31.480 wholeness and the apocalypse and everything can be solved by 1042 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:34.519 normative heterosexual white masculinity. 1043 00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:37.599 Like they just weren't doing it right, like and now 1044 00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:39.599 he's come around, right because. 1045 00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:43.360 He because Bethelhem couldn't Bethelhem could not actually, you know, 1046 00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:45.280 reproduce because you couldn't get it up with a woman. 1047 00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:46.639 So there you go. 1048 00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:48.639 The men just weren't many. 1049 00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:51.320 They weren't no and if they hadn't men to I mean, 1050 00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:53.079 Michael had to burn that flag because he was not 1051 00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:54.679 a man. And we knew he wasn't a man because 1052 00:54:54.679 --> 00:54:56.440 he had the mom syn couldn't produce semen. 1053 00:54:57.079 --> 00:55:00.320 And that's interesting watching from now too, because like early 1054 00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:03.400 I think the Turner Diaries were written in the seventies, 1055 00:55:04.039 --> 00:55:07.039 but like clearly by nineteen eighty two, David Brynn had 1056 00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:11.639 some familiarity with like militia groups and how particularly American 1057 00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:16.360 white supremacist groups operated. By nineteen ninety seven, a lot 1058 00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:19.440 of people did after like Waco. 1059 00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:20.440 In the Oklahomama city. 1060 00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:20.719 Yeah. 1061 00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:23.880 Yeah, and so but they're just like no, no, what 1062 00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:27.519 we need is more traditional values because that is the solution. 1063 00:55:28.679 --> 00:55:31.719 This must just be a white supremacist dream here with 1064 00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:34.199 all these tradwives running around. I mean when they come 1065 00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:37.159 into the Wholeness camp, they're all just doing laundry and stuff. 1066 00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:42.119 It's like, Okay, I was thinking about like how General 1067 00:55:42.159 --> 00:55:46.360 Bethlehem only wanted boys between fifteen or like men between 1068 00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:48.880 fifteen and fifty for his army, and I'm like, oh, 1069 00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:50.639 it's the new US Army. 1070 00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:52.119 Yeah. 1071 00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:58.840 Yeah, they're basically ice rothscript gives name to what happened 1072 00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:02.480 for the eclypse. It was the hole in the ozone 1073 00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:08.119 layer which burned a bunch of stuff. And then the Wholenists. 1074 00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:14.360 Nathan Holme, this survivalist guy who was very charismatic, wrote 1075 00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:17.719 a bunch of books. Very not a Bill O'Reilly, not 1076 00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:20.239 really a Tucker Carlson, but it's just like kind of 1077 00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:24.559 along those lines. Basically, they have a second Civil War 1078 00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:29.239 and it's almost like an insurrection, you know, it's almost 1079 00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:33.079 there's even a storming of the capitol and everything. But yeah, 1080 00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:36.800 like the postman actually gets like brought into their army 1081 00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:39.239 and he's like, oh, yeah, I was captured in Saint 1082 00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:44.679 Louis and I was there when Washington fell and that's great, Yeah, okay, cool. 1083 00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:48.840 But the movie itself refuses to give name to anything, 1084 00:56:48.920 --> 00:56:51.480 Like they talk about radiation, and they talk about the 1085 00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:53.719 bad mumps, and they talk about these things, but they 1086 00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:57.599 don't really ever say how the world collapsed. And I 1087 00:56:57.679 --> 00:57:00.360 know that, you know, and they definitely talk about at 1088 00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:02.880 quite a bit. They don't give us flashbacks. I don't 1089 00:57:02.920 --> 00:57:06.880 think in the book they will talk about how he 1090 00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:10.199 had I think just joined the army or something when 1091 00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:12.719 the shit went down when he was seventeen, but he 1092 00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:13.800 mostly talked about. 1093 00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:16.960 Isn't he isn't in the novel is he a college 1094 00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:19.400 students because he's like an actor, right, he's he's going 1095 00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:20.519 to theater school. 1096 00:57:20.719 --> 00:57:22.960 Yeah, And then he joins the militia and Saint Paul 1097 00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:25.800 because it seems like there is basically like you have 1098 00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:28.559 to do something stop these people. 1099 00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:31.480 And in the novel too, I think, right, it's mentioned 1100 00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:34.159 that like his commander was a woman, right, and that 1101 00:57:34.280 --> 00:57:36.199 she was incredibly brave and that like she you know, 1102 00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:39.079 did everything she had to keep them alive and her. 1103 00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:42.400 Name implied she was Southeast Asian as well, which. 1104 00:57:42.559 --> 00:57:44.960 Pointed it and feels like it was a deliberate choice. 1105 00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:47.679 And I can't remember exactly in the novel what they 1106 00:57:48.039 --> 00:57:50.440 what the cause of it is. It's sort of a combination, 1107 00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:55.079 right of environmental and bio and then it just gets 1108 00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:56.159 worse because of what people do. 1109 00:57:56.960 --> 00:57:59.519 Yeah, like everything that could go wrong does go wrong. 1110 00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:05.559 So it's it's like environmental stuff and it's war and 1111 00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:11.199 then the wholeness break apart the lines between cities because 1112 00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:14.119 they're insurrecting everywhere, and so then the illness starts to 1113 00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:16.000 spread and people can't get vaccines. 1114 00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:19.719 That's right. They block vaccines and block medical deliveries and 1115 00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:20.280 things like that. 1116 00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:24.559 So, yeah, it's not the Bethlehem character who's racist. It's 1117 00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:28.239 like some of the guys that are on his army. 1118 00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:32.920 Because the person that helps out the postman, one of 1119 00:58:32.960 --> 00:58:35.480 the two people that helps out the postman the most, 1120 00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:39.920 is a African American guy who like he's the one 1121 00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:43.639 that mutilates the woman's body and is just like, you know, hey, 1122 00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:45.679 you need to leave. I need to do this. We 1123 00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:49.280 need to basically like send a message and make all 1124 00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:52.920 of these guys super angry because these are just fucking 1125 00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:56.199 plain folk who are not angry enough to actually go 1126 00:58:56.320 --> 00:58:59.719 to war with these guys. And he comes back towards 1127 00:58:59.719 --> 00:59:02.800 again and does a lot of damage to the Bethlehem 1128 00:59:02.880 --> 00:59:05.400 character and his guys, and one of his guys is like, 1129 00:59:05.480 --> 00:59:07.960 oh yeah, this black guy and blah blah blah blah blah. 1130 00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:09.639 I don't even know if he uses the N word, 1131 00:59:09.719 --> 00:59:13.440 but it's just like, I know, Bethlehem's character is like, hey, 1132 00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:16.039 you know, that's small minded, like what are you doing 1133 00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:19.000 kind of thing, Whereas it here, it's just like, oh yeah, 1134 00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:21.639 like you said, like you thought he was bad, well, 1135 00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:24.760 we're going to really make you feel, gonna make him 1136 00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:29.039 racist and you know, talk about like mongoloid's and the 1137 00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:31.320 N word and all this kind of stuff. I mean, 1138 00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:34.639 James Russo always good for that. But it's so funny that, 1139 00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:37.679 like I thought, just from the cast list, I was like, oh, 1140 00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:40.440 James Russo's in this, Oh, Geo Bonni Rapisi's in this. 1141 00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:44.280 Oh wow, this is this is great dead within thirty minutes. 1142 00:59:44.480 --> 00:59:46.000 Which might not have been a bad thing in Giovanni 1143 00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:47.880 Rubeci's case, Oh. 1144 00:59:47.719 --> 00:59:50.960 My god, Rabisi, he was like totally the other sistering 1145 00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:51.920 in this movie. 1146 00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:54.639 He was going for it like he was he was trying. 1147 00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:57.639 You want to be on set that day to just 1148 00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:00.440 see like did he come with that or was Costner 1149 01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:02.760 Like I need to push it harder just because I 1150 01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:06.679 have a hard time watching Kevin Costner in this movie, 1151 01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:09.480 who is such a like again, who can be a 1152 01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:12.519 really charming screen presence. I don't know that he's ever 1153 01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:15.760 really a great actor. I think he's one of those actors, 1154 01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:18.840 like a better version of Mark Wahlberg in this where 1155 01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:23.320 he is entirely dependent on what director is getting from him. 1156 01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:26.880 But can he get things out of actors like you have? Again, 1157 01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:29.000 it feels like will Patten came on here knowing what 1158 01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.960 he was gonna do. Olivia Williams is a Shakespearean theater 1159 01:00:33.079 --> 01:00:36.000 trained Brigdish actress who came in and said, well, okay, 1160 01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:38.840 I'm just gonna take it seriously and hopefully it works. 1161 01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:42.760 And so it's hard to imagine him giving directions to 1162 01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:47.039 Giovanni Ribisi in that pull back or go harder. 1163 01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:50.239 I feel like it's the kind of movie that usually 1164 01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:55.519 you want to be bigger in, both as a Western 1165 01:00:55.559 --> 01:00:59.199 and as opposed to apocalyptic movie and as a parable 1166 01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:03.800 of America. And I'm not sure how he was directing them, 1167 01:01:03.800 --> 01:01:06.960 but I feel like all the other actors did a 1168 01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:11.480 good job understanding well they understood the movie in that 1169 01:01:11.559 --> 01:01:13.360 kind of way we need to be a little bigger, 1170 01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:17.880 except for Kevin Costner, and I feel like he has 1171 01:01:17.960 --> 01:01:21.159 a level that he's comfortable at and it's almost I'm 1172 01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:24.280 the normal guy reacting to things, and then sometimes I 1173 01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:26.559 become the normal guy who's pushed too far and he 1174 01:01:26.599 --> 01:01:29.679 has to become a hero, and he maybe he did that. 1175 01:01:30.519 --> 01:01:33.400 I would be curious for a reading like I think 1176 01:01:33.400 --> 01:01:36.280 you could do this again. I think you could do 1177 01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:38.000 it as a mini series. I think you could do 1178 01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:42.000 it as a film. And I think the movie made 1179 01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:43.800 a lot of the right decisions in what they cut 1180 01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:46.000 from the novel. I don't think the computer stuff would 1181 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.159 have worked. I think I don't think the super soldier 1182 01:01:48.199 --> 01:01:48.920 stuff would have worked. 1183 01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:49.119 To me. 1184 01:01:49.159 --> 01:01:51.880 When I was reading, that was when I felt like, oh, right, 1185 01:01:51.920 --> 01:01:54.000 this is why I don't really like reading a lot 1186 01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.760 of sci fi novels that they end up just feeling 1187 01:01:56.880 --> 01:02:03.519 so technically devoted to something, usually focusing on this specific 1188 01:02:03.559 --> 01:02:05.280 story we want to tell at the cost of like 1189 01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:08.360 good writing and characters and the supercilous stuff. I thought 1190 01:02:08.360 --> 01:02:10.480 for a minute, I'm like, did I like skip a 1191 01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:13.400 chapter because it felt so much like a different book 1192 01:02:13.400 --> 01:02:16.360 by that point. So I think the movie made a 1193 01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:19.239 lot of the right choices in the story was telling. 1194 01:02:19.960 --> 01:02:23.519 It just ticklls it so poorly that you could do 1195 01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:27.360 it again in another twenty years. Let's have a post woman. 1196 01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:31.400 Yeah. I don't even mind the decision about we're going 1197 01:02:31.440 --> 01:02:34.599 to conserve I mean, in general, I don't like the 1198 01:02:34.639 --> 01:02:38.079 idea of like conservation of actresses, Like maybe they could 1199 01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:41.039 just have more actresses doing things that aren't specifically woman 1200 01:02:41.119 --> 01:02:44.280 things to do. But I don't mind that there was 1201 01:02:44.360 --> 01:02:48.079 one love interest for him. I do think, like you say, 1202 01:02:48.119 --> 01:02:50.960 it could have been handled better. And there's a lot 1203 01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:54.840 in this I Mike shared that fan edit with us, 1204 01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:59.199 and they cut out a lot of things, and they 1205 01:02:59.280 --> 01:03:01.679 sort of make it much more what you would expect, 1206 01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:08.039 where they introduce Bethlehem and his army and his predations 1207 01:03:08.239 --> 01:03:11.719 very much like say a cattle baron in a Western 1208 01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:16.800 or a warlord in a Mad Max movie. And then 1209 01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:21.280 they introduce Kevin Costner's character as like a drifter, so 1210 01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:23.079 you see him sliding in the mud and finding the 1211 01:03:23.079 --> 01:03:27.159 postman out that they actually tighten up Abby's story together 1212 01:03:27.639 --> 01:03:30.800 so you can see her arc and with him, and 1213 01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:34.360 they show that works a lot better. And then at 1214 01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:37.719 the end he reveals, like I said, that, ooh, all along, 1215 01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:43.360 I had been in the army. And it works better 1216 01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:47.320 as a coherent movie. But it's not the same movie, 1217 01:03:47.559 --> 01:03:49.920 you know, And I don't think David Brinn would be 1218 01:03:50.519 --> 01:03:53.039 happy with it because they made it more like. 1219 01:03:53.280 --> 01:03:55.719 Other post amocalyptic violence. 1220 01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:58.920 Yes, and I probably would have enjoyed it more. I 1221 01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:02.320 wouldn't have found it so far frustrating or spent so 1222 01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:04.480 much time trying to figure out what was going on 1223 01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:06.119 with it and then what was going on with my 1224 01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:07.199 response to it. 1225 01:04:07.880 --> 01:04:10.280 But the definitive thing about this movie is that it 1226 01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:15.199 is optimistic about America. And I think if you take 1227 01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:17.039 that away, you did, it is I don't know what 1228 01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:17.880 movie it would be. 1229 01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:21.920 The optimism about America. We mentioned the burning and the flag. 1230 01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:25.039 There's that little girl who just starts singing America the 1231 01:04:25.079 --> 01:04:27.639 beautiful out of nowhere at one point. 1232 01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:30.199 Thank you so much for bringing that up, because I 1233 01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:33.599 almost forgot. And it's such a moment. Also, how did yeah, 1234 01:04:33.639 --> 01:04:35.480 how does she even know that song? She went alive 1235 01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:36.360 when we were singing that. 1236 01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:39.159 Well, there's the thing where it's like the band in 1237 01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:40.880 Pineview that is singing. 1238 01:04:41.639 --> 01:04:45.039 There's a floutist. There's like a full out country band 1239 01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:46.079 with classical but. 1240 01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:50.239 They're playing songs that are modern as of nineteen ninety seven. 1241 01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:53.719 And at one point they start singing I think the 1242 01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:56.840 very first time they start singing, and it sounds like 1243 01:04:57.000 --> 01:05:00.679 they're singing the Cosmi Kids song like the not Going 1244 01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:02.679 to Have a Good Time, And I was like, oh, okay, 1245 01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:04.840 well they do that. In the book, there's a lot 1246 01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:05.920 of like, oh, you know. 1247 01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:09.760 Singing jingles, YEAHI pop culture, Yeah, well you. 1248 01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:12.159 Know demolition Man like what we did. We've got the 1249 01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:15.280 radio station that is just like the Armor hot Dog 1250 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:17.639 kind of songs and stuff. And I'm like, oh, well, 1251 01:05:17.679 --> 01:05:20.480 that's interesting how they worked that. No, no, they're playing 1252 01:05:20.519 --> 01:05:23.199 like you know, I can't even remember which the band is, 1253 01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:25.360 but I'm just like, okay, yeah, I've heard this song before, 1254 01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:28.320 just not in this kind of folksy way that they're 1255 01:05:28.360 --> 01:05:31.920 doing at all. Right, But then that. 1256 01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:35.119 Was a very hallmark moment too. They all they needed 1257 01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:37.679 to be was in like a gazebo or something like that. 1258 01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:41.159 Well, they had the little fire lights and everything. There's 1259 01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:46.599 something too that I do find interesting about the apocalypse 1260 01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:51.679 of how does culture survive? Right? For whatever reason, I 1261 01:05:51.679 --> 01:05:53.480 think we're kind of led to believe in this movie 1262 01:05:53.480 --> 01:05:57.440 that even though again target clothing will survive, books don't. 1263 01:05:57.559 --> 01:06:01.679 It seems like right because nobody is reading, nobody is 1264 01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:05.679 like that aspect does not seem to be a thing there. 1265 01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:09.119 And so when Kevin Costner is this his his ability, 1266 01:06:09.159 --> 01:06:13.199 his his trade is that he can perform Shakespeare kind 1267 01:06:13.239 --> 01:06:16.480 of kind of not very well, not very well, but 1268 01:06:16.599 --> 01:06:19.920 he's like the last guy alive who remembers most of 1269 01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:22.639 the words to make beeth And again it does that 1270 01:06:22.679 --> 01:06:25.199 thing that oh god, I forget, like when you are 1271 01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:30.079 trying to show like somebody doing Shakespeare badly and the 1272 01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:33.719 way they always go, it's like to be or not 1273 01:06:34.599 --> 01:06:38.639 uh line line, that's what it feels like, right, He's 1274 01:06:38.679 --> 01:06:42.320 like life is sold by it ore on. Yeah, that's it, 1275 01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:45.199 like just like okay, like he could be good, like 1276 01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:46.800 I guess, I mean, I don't know that I could 1277 01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:48.960 buy Kevin Costner being good in Shakespeare. So maybe it's fun. 1278 01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:50.599 The movie doesn't pretend he's actually good at what he's 1279 01:06:50.599 --> 01:06:54.559 doing there, But there is something interesting about what would 1280 01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:58.679 our how would how do we survive art without the 1281 01:06:58.719 --> 01:07:01.920 things that we currently use for the medium? Right, It's 1282 01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:05.119 like in Rain of Fire. I'm thinking of the Dragon movie, 1283 01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:07.960 where the thing that they do right the way they 1284 01:07:08.039 --> 01:07:10.480 entertain the children in it is they reenact Star Wars 1285 01:07:10.519 --> 01:07:13.079 and the Empire strikes back. Because that's the thing we'd 1286 01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:15.280 be able to tell our kids, like you're right, you 1287 01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:17.159 know what, I can't recite at Tel of Two Cities 1288 01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:21.119 to you, but I can reenact the entirety of problem 1289 01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:25.920 Child if I need to. That's something that like would 1290 01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:29.199 have also been more charming, because it again, you feel 1291 01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:31.440 like you're going a certain direction with this movie of 1292 01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:36.320 here's the world we're in, here's what survived. Again, it 1293 01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:40.159 doesn't really work, but there's something there, but then it 1294 01:07:40.280 --> 01:07:42.639 just gets mixed up in three more hours of a 1295 01:07:42.679 --> 01:07:46.800 lot of other states. I think it's difficult, Like, I 1296 01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:50.519 think it's difficult for two reasons, Like one, they don't 1297 01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:52.960 really want to go there, Like I think that's like 1298 01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:56.679 a whole class of stuff that in the book and 1299 01:07:57.559 --> 01:08:01.159 to a lesser extent, but more by absence is like feminized, 1300 01:08:01.199 --> 01:08:03.800 Like there's the work the women do in the books, 1301 01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:06.960 and there's the work women we see them doing a 1302 01:08:07.000 --> 01:08:08.119 little bit in the film. 1303 01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:13.840 But it's also sixteen years out. I'm sure there are 1304 01:08:13.880 --> 01:08:20.239 still librarians in their libraries organizing community. Like it's it's 1305 01:08:20.319 --> 01:08:24.800 too soon for people to have completely forgotten Shakespeare or 1306 01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:26.399 even like Danielle Steele, you know. 1307 01:08:27.199 --> 01:08:30.880 The lady playing the piano seems to know all the lines. Yeah, 1308 01:08:30.920 --> 01:08:34.039 she's cueing him and he keeps fucking up the keys. 1309 01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:37.039 IINU it's very realistic of any society that you would 1310 01:08:37.079 --> 01:08:39.920 have like the slightly older woman who totally could run 1311 01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:43.760 everything and remembers everything and knows it all, but everybody 1312 01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:46.159 like falls over for the attractive young white man. 1313 01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:49.560 And that's also a character that's missing from the movie, 1314 01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:52.000 is that I believe it's a woman. 1315 01:08:51.920 --> 01:08:55.319 That Thompson the first woman who understands you're not a postman. 1316 01:08:55.520 --> 01:08:58.079 I like, she calls him out on it immediately, But 1317 01:08:58.159 --> 01:09:01.199 they have this kind of like these they became penpals, 1318 01:09:01.239 --> 01:09:04.319 where he writes to her earnestly, but also it's like 1319 01:09:04.359 --> 01:09:06.840 the one person he knows knows his secret and that 1320 01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:09.359 she'll keep it because she realizes it's better for the 1321 01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:13.039 world to hold onto it. Yeah, there's nobody like that here. 1322 01:09:13.039 --> 01:09:15.760 I thought it was gonna be that character, but we 1323 01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:17.800 don't have room for a woman to be beat and 1324 01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:19.279 pel shit in this movie. 1325 01:09:19.960 --> 01:09:22.199 I haven't thought it was going to be the guy 1326 01:09:22.199 --> 01:09:24.439 that plays the sheriff, you know. I was like, oh, well, 1327 01:09:24.439 --> 01:09:24.760 me too. 1328 01:09:24.880 --> 01:09:26.920 I thought, oh, they've shifted it over to this guy, 1329 01:09:26.960 --> 01:09:29.840 which again I'm sure, okay, the man would know. 1330 01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:34.039 Kind of comes around after a while, but not fully. 1331 01:09:34.479 --> 01:09:36.359 This is a case where I think it is an 1332 01:09:36.399 --> 01:09:41.159 actor overcoming bad material because he's you know, he's there 1333 01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:42.800 to be the guy, the one guy that really gets it. 1334 01:09:42.800 --> 01:09:44.359 He's like, you're not a postman. I know you're not. 1335 01:09:44.479 --> 01:09:46.760 I can tell. I'm older. I look at you. I 1336 01:09:46.840 --> 01:09:50.159 know that this is bullshit. But then slowly, like has 1337 01:09:50.199 --> 01:09:52.279 the scene where he's like, I still don't believe you, 1338 01:09:52.880 --> 01:09:55.479 but you're good for this town. But then the next 1339 01:09:55.479 --> 01:09:57.600 scene when Keavin cost is like, by the way, I 1340 01:09:57.640 --> 01:10:00.520 have a letter from your sister. That scene is actually 1341 01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:04.720 a really beautifully done scene because he takes it like 1342 01:10:04.880 --> 01:10:08.359 just in one moment, this actor's eyes go from steely 1343 01:10:08.520 --> 01:10:12.039 to welling up with tears, who says, I thought my 1344 01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:14.359 sister was dead and he just walks away and reads 1345 01:10:14.359 --> 01:10:17.079 this letter and you suddenly are like, there's a movie here, 1346 01:10:17.119 --> 01:10:20.800 Oh there's okay. Can we just go with this guy? 1347 01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:23.199 Can we follow him? Because it does feel like there 1348 01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:26.760 is something genuine happening here and it's really lovely and 1349 01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:29.840 I think it is purely a good actor being given 1350 01:10:29.920 --> 01:10:31.319 two lines to make it work. 1351 01:10:31.760 --> 01:10:37.439 What's funny because that guy, Daniel Van Bargain mostly plays 1352 01:10:37.720 --> 01:10:42.760 sheriffs and chiefs of police like super Troopers, Chief Grady, oh, 1353 01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:45.119 brother Waret, though he's Sheriff Cooley. 1354 01:10:45.800 --> 01:10:47.920 I had just seen him on Seinfeld, so that's what 1355 01:10:47.960 --> 01:10:49.039 was stuck in my head with him. 1356 01:10:49.279 --> 01:10:52.439 Yeah, Seinfeld, he is fucking fantastic. I want to say, 1357 01:10:52.479 --> 01:10:56.960 isn't he the guy from Malcolm in the Middle as 1358 01:10:56.960 --> 01:11:01.600 well that that tortures Francis the Older And oh oh. 1359 01:11:01.399 --> 01:11:05.399 He's the military guyana with the yeah, the yeah. 1360 01:11:05.479 --> 01:11:08.760 And I think he even showed up in a Universal 1361 01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:11.199 Soldier movie, which is kind of funny. But yeah, I 1362 01:11:11.560 --> 01:11:13.359 was really thinking, Oh, he's going to be the guy. 1363 01:11:13.479 --> 01:11:16.039 He's gonna, you know, see between the lines and all this. 1364 01:11:16.119 --> 01:11:18.079 But yeah, you're right, that is a beautiful scene. There 1365 01:11:18.079 --> 01:11:20.520 are moments in this movie where you're like, oh wow, 1366 01:11:20.560 --> 01:11:23.960 this is actually like hitting, but those are so few 1367 01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:25.119 and far between. 1368 01:11:25.079 --> 01:11:26.560 And when you're a three hour movie. 1369 01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:30.920 The Pony Express moment when when all the postal carriers 1370 01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:34.119 are spluffed, yeah, yeah, that's a lovely and yeah. 1371 01:11:34.119 --> 01:11:36.319 The Ford Lincoln Mercury character, I would say, is probably 1372 01:11:36.319 --> 01:11:39.840 one of the strongest characters around. And he's the one, 1373 01:11:39.880 --> 01:11:42.359 like you said, he's the one that organizes all this stuff. 1374 01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:44.760 He's the one that really gets all of these people together, 1375 01:11:45.319 --> 01:11:48.520 like he adapts the dream, like I think I referred 1376 01:11:48.520 --> 01:11:50.239 to him in my notes as like he's basically the 1377 01:11:50.239 --> 01:11:53.279 Paul of Tarsus of this whole movement. He's the one 1378 01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:55.479 who gets hit on the road to Damascus and is like, 1379 01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:58.239 I must spread the gospel of the postman. And he's 1380 01:11:58.279 --> 01:12:01.159 the one that starts all of these Johnny Apple seeding 1381 01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:04.279 all these different post offices all over the place. 1382 01:12:05.279 --> 01:12:07.239 Yeah, we can have a better life. 1383 01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:11.960 There's something lovely to that idea, because the you know, 1384 01:12:12.119 --> 01:12:14.920 revolution to be in the hands of the young, right 1385 01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:17.159 you want you don't want it to be these like 1386 01:12:17.159 --> 01:12:18.920 old people. They're like, well, I remember how it was, 1387 01:12:19.039 --> 01:12:21.680 now it could be again. Sure that's great, but it's 1388 01:12:21.800 --> 01:12:26.119 much more important and powerful and sustainable if it's the 1389 01:12:26.199 --> 01:12:29.560 young people saying I believe that the world could get 1390 01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:31.000 better and I'm going to do something about it. 1391 01:12:31.039 --> 01:12:33.560 And you also can't rely on I know, I feel 1392 01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:35.199 like i'm harping on this, but you can't rely on 1393 01:12:35.199 --> 01:12:39.239 one person. You have to build a community, no, unless Carol, 1394 01:12:39.279 --> 01:12:42.119 that person is Kevin Potics. Yes, you're right, I'm sorry. 1395 01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:45.840 Kind of reminds me of that line from Mad Max 1396 01:12:45.920 --> 01:12:47.880 Fury Road where it's like they, you know, when a 1397 01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:50.520 Morton Joe comes in and they've written like who broke 1398 01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:53.239 the World or whatever, and it's like, yeah, all these 1399 01:12:53.319 --> 01:12:54.960 young women are the ones that are going to be 1400 01:12:54.960 --> 01:12:57.439 our saviors. It's not these old men who are just 1401 01:12:57.520 --> 01:13:00.439 beholden to the old style of running things. 1402 01:13:01.279 --> 01:13:02.840 And that's why I thought this movie was gonna end 1403 01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:06.720 with Kevin Cosler dying with board Lincoln Mercury like putting 1404 01:13:06.760 --> 01:13:11.079 on the Postmaster General flag, and Kevin Costner's daughter, who 1405 01:13:11.920 --> 01:13:14.279 you know is taking over like the next level and 1406 01:13:14.279 --> 01:13:16.840 so on, and all of that would have made more sense, 1407 01:13:16.880 --> 01:13:18.720 but instead it still has to be in the hands 1408 01:13:18.720 --> 01:13:21.000 of Like, isn't it great that Kevin Costner didn't kill 1409 01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:21.600 that guy. 1410 01:13:22.119 --> 01:13:24.560 During that moment? It made me briefly think of Grand 1411 01:13:24.600 --> 01:13:29.199 Turino because I'm like, you know, I could see Clint Eastwood, 1412 01:13:29.199 --> 01:13:32.680 who I think has different politics than Kevin Costner, pulling 1413 01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:34.119 this movie off better. 1414 01:13:34.279 --> 01:13:37.039 And they probably have the same politics. Yeah, I don't know. 1415 01:13:37.079 --> 01:13:40.039 I haven't paid attention in a long time, but I 1416 01:13:40.119 --> 01:13:42.680 was willing to give some continue to do that. 1417 01:13:42.439 --> 01:13:43.239 That's the best way to live. 1418 01:13:43.319 --> 01:13:47.399 I haven't seen Kevin Costner speak to any empty chairs, 1419 01:13:47.880 --> 01:13:50.880 but I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, I haven't really 1420 01:13:50.960 --> 01:13:54.640 kept up with him since I don't even know when 1421 01:13:54.640 --> 01:13:55.640 the last time was. 1422 01:13:56.479 --> 01:13:59.199 But one of the things that I appreciate about Grand 1423 01:13:59.239 --> 01:14:03.840 Turno is that his character realizes he can't fix this 1424 01:14:04.399 --> 01:14:07.439 and that in the end, the only thing he can 1425 01:14:07.520 --> 01:14:11.800 do for these people is die, and that Kevin Costner character, 1426 01:14:11.880 --> 01:14:14.520 like you said, there's an ending where the solution is 1427 01:14:14.600 --> 01:14:18.680 he dies, his army gets pissed off seeing his dead body, 1428 01:14:19.159 --> 01:14:23.159 and they have their victory. But no, they can't have 1429 01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:23.960 their victory. 1430 01:14:24.720 --> 01:14:26.520 I guess the last thing I saw him in was 1431 01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:28.960 when he was playing paw Kent and had the most 1432 01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:30.479 senseless death of. 1433 01:14:30.560 --> 01:14:34.680 Oh my god ever. Oh this this scene where he 1434 01:14:34.800 --> 01:14:40.399 just where he just chooses to die. Don't save me, Superman. 1435 01:14:40.479 --> 01:14:41.840 I know you can save me, but don't save me. 1436 01:14:41.960 --> 01:14:44.720 It's more important for you to let me die. Yes, 1437 01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:47.199 I can't quite explain why. 1438 01:14:47.439 --> 01:14:49.880 Because i'm your militia dad, and I have to teach 1439 01:14:49.880 --> 01:14:51.640 you that humans are terrible and. 1440 01:14:51.560 --> 01:14:53.760 You should never learn they're not worth saving, even though 1441 01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:56.279 you're Superman, and that defies everything about Superman. 1442 01:14:56.560 --> 01:14:59.079 Yes, yeah, I'm not going to go there. I'm gonna not. 1443 01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:01.760 No, I forgot how mad I'm maybe. I don't think 1444 01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:04.479 I'm a Superman person. I'm married to one who I 1445 01:15:04.479 --> 01:15:06.079 can't believe he didn't walk out of that movie. 1446 01:15:06.199 --> 01:15:09.359 I had a friend visiting it from out of town, 1447 01:15:09.920 --> 01:15:11.920 and we went and saw at the Ford drive in 1448 01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:13.680 because he was like, oh, you know, I like to 1449 01:15:13.720 --> 01:15:16.800 see something in a drive in because he's from Toronto 1450 01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:20.000 and there they're not very local drive in. So we 1451 01:15:20.039 --> 01:15:21.840 went and saw that because it seemed like I was like, 1452 01:15:21.880 --> 01:15:24.920 I don't want to see another Zack Snyder movie. But 1453 01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:29.399 we saw it together there and we bitched so hard 1454 01:15:29.439 --> 01:15:31.920 together in the car that we saw these people in 1455 01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:34.800 this other card looking at us, and like that's. 1456 01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:36.640 The perfect way to watch it, so that you could 1457 01:15:36.680 --> 01:15:39.079 just bitch together and disturb them. 1458 01:15:40.399 --> 01:15:40.720 Yeah. 1459 01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:44.560 Yeah, it's weird. There's like little echoes of things that 1460 01:15:44.640 --> 01:15:46.439 happened in this movie. I was just looking through my 1461 01:15:46.479 --> 01:15:50.039 notes and there's that one moment where Bethlehem is just like, 1462 01:15:50.560 --> 01:15:54.840 you know what, what separates okay men from great men? 1463 01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:57.840 Or something? And he starts talking about like writing things 1464 01:15:57.920 --> 01:16:01.960 down or journaling or something, and I'm like, what about it? Like, 1465 01:16:02.159 --> 01:16:03.560 there is the whole thing about. 1466 01:16:03.319 --> 01:16:06.479 The joy it makes you a good person in the book, 1467 01:16:06.479 --> 01:16:07.319 that's a big part of it. 1468 01:16:07.640 --> 01:16:11.039 Yeah, because the loses his journal, the postman loses his journle, 1469 01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:13.600 and then that's what kind of outs him to the 1470 01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:17.000 military guys to be like, hey, yeah, you're. 1471 01:16:16.760 --> 01:16:19.880 You're a phony and a bad con man who wrote 1472 01:16:19.880 --> 01:16:20.600 your con down. 1473 01:16:21.439 --> 01:16:24.319 Every little girl who has a brothers learns very early 1474 01:16:24.560 --> 01:16:27.119 you do not keep a diary. It will be used 1475 01:16:27.119 --> 01:16:27.680 against you. 1476 01:16:28.399 --> 01:16:31.079 And you were talking about what a good shot Abbey is. 1477 01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:34.840 She's a good shot for one shot, and after that 1478 01:16:34.880 --> 01:16:36.520 she becomes the worst shot in the world. 1479 01:16:37.119 --> 01:16:39.600 No, she's a great shot for a movie. Oh yeah, 1480 01:16:39.640 --> 01:16:41.840 because you have to prove yourself that you know how 1481 01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:44.800 to hold the gun, you know, and can shoot to injure. 1482 01:16:45.079 --> 01:16:49.079 And also yeah, you have to have the whole like 1483 01:16:49.159 --> 01:16:52.880 Stormtrooper ability to not actually hit your primary target at 1484 01:16:52.880 --> 01:16:55.720 all after that. So also, where are all these bullets 1485 01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:58.720 coming from? There's a lot of bullets, and like they're 1486 01:16:59.039 --> 01:17:01.520 they're not even like using them. Like at one point, 1487 01:17:01.600 --> 01:17:03.680 right they when they almost let a guy get away, 1488 01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:05.399 or Kenn concern wants to let a guy get away 1489 01:17:05.720 --> 01:17:07.920 and the rest of the postmen do not and shoot 1490 01:17:07.960 --> 01:17:11.119 the guy but then shoot him like fifty times each 1491 01:17:11.159 --> 01:17:13.520 with their guns. And I'm watching it thinking like, don't 1492 01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:15.760 you have to conserve Ammo, Like, shouldn't you be a 1493 01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:17.600 little more thoughtful about this? 1494 01:17:18.439 --> 01:17:20.199 I want to say. The guy she shoots in the 1495 01:17:20.239 --> 01:17:22.640 head is the guy who gets booed at the dance 1496 01:17:22.720 --> 01:17:26.319 contest and American astronaut. I haven't yet confirmed that though, 1497 01:17:26.359 --> 01:17:29.760 but I was very happy about that. But yeah, in 1498 01:17:29.800 --> 01:17:34.279 the book, they're so he's like, I have five bullets, 1499 01:17:34.479 --> 01:17:36.600 you know, and I do not want to fire this. 1500 01:17:36.720 --> 01:17:38.840 He ends up making a bow and arrow and he's 1501 01:17:38.880 --> 01:17:41.039 just like, well, yeah, I'm gonna use this bow and arrows. 1502 01:17:41.359 --> 01:17:43.600 Yeah, because he needs to shoot once to prove that 1503 01:17:43.640 --> 01:17:46.560 it's loaded. But then after that he knows I'm done 1504 01:17:46.640 --> 01:17:48.199 after these five bullets. 1505 01:17:47.760 --> 01:17:51.479 And the final fight is hand to hand. But also 1506 01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:54.640 like all all the troops they've learned, like the Wholeness 1507 01:17:54.720 --> 01:17:59.359 are using knives because it's quiet and because they're reusable. 1508 01:18:00.239 --> 01:18:00.760 Makes sense. 1509 01:18:01.239 --> 01:18:05.159 And yes, that is Joseph McKenna, who was a Wholeness 1510 01:18:05.199 --> 01:18:10.000 captain as well as the doorman from The American Astronaut, 1511 01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:12.399 one of my favorite films, and I was really glad 1512 01:18:12.439 --> 01:18:16.760 to see. At one point Kostner gets or the Postman 1513 01:18:16.880 --> 01:18:19.800 gets heckled by a guy in the very first time 1514 01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:22.920 he's performing, and he's just like, you suck, you know 1515 01:18:23.079 --> 01:18:27.239 kind of thing. That's the guy from The Untouchables who 1516 01:18:27.600 --> 01:18:31.039 is the bookkeeper that Sean Connery shoots the dead body 1517 01:18:31.079 --> 01:18:33.399 in the head, and he's like, i'll tell you anything, 1518 01:18:33.439 --> 01:18:35.880 I'll tell you anything. That's that same guy. I'm like, oh, okay, 1519 01:18:35.920 --> 01:18:37.800 this is kind of nice. It's like Costner kind of 1520 01:18:37.840 --> 01:18:40.600 you know, like, well, I'll use this guy from The Untouchables, 1521 01:18:40.600 --> 01:18:43.720 I'll use Will Patten from No Way Out and also 1522 01:18:43.840 --> 01:18:47.000 ironically the character that he plays in No Way Out 1523 01:18:48.239 --> 01:18:51.039 gay and is just so in love with the Gene 1524 01:18:51.079 --> 01:18:52.520 Hackman character in that movie. 1525 01:18:52.560 --> 01:18:55.159 Probably why he cast Will Patten, because you want it's 1526 01:18:55.159 --> 01:18:58.079 funny because every interview, the ones that were in there 1527 01:18:58.079 --> 01:19:00.840 that I watched, Kennon Costner is trying, like whether he's 1528 01:19:00.880 --> 01:19:03.520 trying hard or genuinely, Like when it comes to actually 1529 01:19:03.520 --> 01:19:08.359 talking about himself, he seems very like, kind of embarrassed 1530 01:19:08.359 --> 01:19:10.600 and kinda yeah, I mean I kind of had the 1531 01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:13.039 star in the movie and you know, I really I 1532 01:19:13.079 --> 01:19:15.560 know I'm not the best actor and so on, and 1533 01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:18.560 it really like he just puts on this humble act 1534 01:19:18.680 --> 01:19:20.960 of it just this is how we had to tell 1535 01:19:20.960 --> 01:19:23.279 the stories, is what we had to do. And I 1536 01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:27.000 don't really think of myself as anything great. And but 1537 01:19:27.119 --> 01:19:31.600 yet every decision in this movie, right that casting like 1538 01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:35.359 his love interest being younger enough than him but not 1539 01:19:35.680 --> 01:19:40.880 so young that it's weird right that he like Will again, 1540 01:19:40.960 --> 01:19:42.520 like I'll just keep going back to it, but like 1541 01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:46.079 Will Patton being such a specific type of person to 1542 01:19:46.159 --> 01:19:48.840 cast an in the part of your rival, right because 1543 01:19:48.840 --> 01:19:51.640 he is not going to outshine you. And again, I 1544 01:19:51.680 --> 01:19:55.000 think there is absolutely like homosexual undertones to it. 1545 01:19:55.119 --> 01:19:55.680 I think he. 1546 01:19:55.600 --> 01:19:57.840 Did, though, I think Will Patton outshine him. 1547 01:19:58.680 --> 01:20:00.800 I agree. I think most of the spell trying him 1548 01:20:00.840 --> 01:20:03.760 because she was really not good in this. Yeah, a 1549 01:20:03.840 --> 01:20:06.359 lot a lot of before they're famous people too. Well. 1550 01:20:06.359 --> 01:20:09.359 Will Penn's just a great actor. Some of the reports 1551 01:20:09.399 --> 01:20:11.520 I read and now this is always folly when you 1552 01:20:11.600 --> 01:20:14.199 read like, oh, well they almost cast this person because 1553 01:20:14.199 --> 01:20:16.399 they didn't, you know, like I know there. 1554 01:20:16.439 --> 01:20:18.399 Right, Yeah, who knows how will close any of that 1555 01:20:18.439 --> 01:20:18.760 ever came? 1556 01:20:18.920 --> 01:20:21.279 Roth said himself that he was writing it with Tom 1557 01:20:21.319 --> 01:20:23.800 Hanks in mind, and there was talk of him coming in. 1558 01:20:24.319 --> 01:20:28.079 Other people that they talked about. I know Dreyfus, Richard Dreyfus. 1559 01:20:28.279 --> 01:20:31.560 Richard Dreyfus apparently really wanted to do it right. He 1560 01:20:31.640 --> 01:20:34.479 was like crying like himself spearheading it. 1561 01:20:34.800 --> 01:20:36.760 And I don't know if that was just for the rights, 1562 01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:38.279 like if he would have been a producer, if he 1563 01:20:38.279 --> 01:20:40.720 would have been the star. And then the other people 1564 01:20:40.800 --> 01:20:43.640 I heard for starring in this. One of them I 1565 01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:45.800 can't see, the other one I think would be perfect. 1566 01:20:46.239 --> 01:20:49.399 The one I can't see is Robin Williams. The one 1567 01:20:49.479 --> 01:20:51.600 I could see as Michael Keaton. 1568 01:20:51.880 --> 01:20:53.520 Yeah, Michael Heaton would have been great. 1569 01:20:54.039 --> 01:20:56.039 He has the right he has the good energy, and 1570 01:20:56.079 --> 01:20:59.279 you know, like we were talking about his Shakespearean acting 1571 01:21:00.039 --> 01:21:02.600 and it's sort of in retrospect. I'm like, oh, you 1572 01:21:02.640 --> 01:21:05.920 know when you watch the Westerns and there's sort of 1573 01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:11.479 the the loosh sketchy actor who comes into town who's 1574 01:21:11.560 --> 01:21:13.399 overly broadly Shakespearean. 1575 01:21:13.600 --> 01:21:15.000 Oh, yeah, you're Richard Harris. 1576 01:21:15.319 --> 01:21:16.560 Yeah he was trying to. 1577 01:21:16.680 --> 01:21:19.399 Yeah, he was trying to do that. And because he 1578 01:21:19.600 --> 01:21:22.760 didn't do that, because I don't want to say he can't, 1579 01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:26.399 I suspect it's not in his range, like that kind 1580 01:21:26.439 --> 01:21:29.680 of like broad over the top kind of performing is 1581 01:21:30.039 --> 01:21:34.319 a specific skill. But because he didn't do that, we're like, 1582 01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:37.199 what does this have to do with like the time 1583 01:21:37.479 --> 01:21:40.920 and what kind of education they have that they're relying 1584 01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:46.479 on him? And but Michael Keaton could rip that shit up, Mike, 1585 01:21:46.680 --> 01:21:50.279 he could be terrible Shakespearean actor who's super broad and 1586 01:21:50.319 --> 01:21:52.680 then gets into a fight about whether or not he sucks. 1587 01:21:52.840 --> 01:21:55.600 I mean, his character in much Ado About Nothing was 1588 01:21:56.199 --> 01:21:57.479 fucking fantastic. 1589 01:21:57.800 --> 01:22:00.439 Yeah, and I'd buy him as like a con man 1590 01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:03.000 who eventually had to realize his con was true. 1591 01:22:03.640 --> 01:22:06.399 I mean his character from Night Shift is a total 1592 01:22:06.479 --> 01:22:09.279 con man type character and he eventually has to come 1593 01:22:09.319 --> 01:22:12.760 around and that, yeah, Michael Keaton has ranged. You can 1594 01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:17.199 have an arc, whereas like when Costner is like, hey, 1595 01:22:17.199 --> 01:22:20.520 this was a bad thing, it's just like he is 1596 01:22:20.560 --> 01:22:23.399 just so abrupt about it, and it's like you've got 1597 01:22:23.439 --> 01:22:27.720 three hours to build this character and you just like 1598 01:22:27.880 --> 01:22:30.880 turn out a dime here, and just like some of 1599 01:22:30.920 --> 01:22:33.680 the weird decisions that they made, Like there's a I 1600 01:22:33.680 --> 01:22:36.840 think the only extra that's on either the DVD or 1601 01:22:36.880 --> 01:22:40.640 the Blu ray is available on YouTube fully, which is 1602 01:22:40.720 --> 01:22:44.880 a breakdown of the special effects and who did they 1603 01:22:44.880 --> 01:22:46.920 push out right towards the end. It wasn't the special 1604 01:22:46.960 --> 01:22:50.359 effects person somebody else, but like the choices for the 1605 01:22:50.399 --> 01:22:54.000 special effects were so odd because it was all stuff 1606 01:22:54.640 --> 01:22:59.439 that seemed like it was practical. Like when Olivia Williams 1607 01:22:59.520 --> 01:23:03.720 is in that freezing cold water, all of that snow 1608 01:23:03.840 --> 01:23:07.680 was digital snow. I'm like what, Or like they'll do 1609 01:23:07.800 --> 01:23:11.479 like big replacements of like mountain ranges and stuff, like 1610 01:23:11.479 --> 01:23:13.720 when he at the very beginning he's in that dry 1611 01:23:13.800 --> 01:23:17.520 lake bed and he's like hopping on a trampoline or 1612 01:23:17.520 --> 01:23:21.199 something like all of the stuff behind him was replaced. 1613 01:23:21.520 --> 01:23:24.239 And like they talk a lot in that Roth screenplay 1614 01:23:24.279 --> 01:23:26.680 about how fucked up the sky is because of the 1615 01:23:26.720 --> 01:23:29.159 Ozone layer, and I was like, well, that kind of 1616 01:23:29.239 --> 01:23:31.680 would make sense if the sky was weird, but as 1617 01:23:31.720 --> 01:23:34.960 it is, like I wouldn't mind vacationing to pine View, 1618 01:23:35.079 --> 01:23:38.880 you know, not beholden to you know, like the post 1619 01:23:38.880 --> 01:23:41.479 office being you know, almost torched and everything, but like 1620 01:23:41.840 --> 01:23:44.439 these places seem very you know you're talking about the 1621 01:23:44.439 --> 01:23:47.199 clothes and stuff and how great the clothes look. Yeah, 1622 01:23:47.319 --> 01:23:52.119 things don't look dirty in this Like where's the the 1623 01:23:52.520 --> 01:23:56.399 worn outness of things? Like it's so ironic that, you know, 1624 01:23:56.479 --> 01:23:58.199 like and I think that's one reason too why they 1625 01:23:58.199 --> 01:24:02.079 moved away from the Roth draft was things like the 1626 01:24:02.119 --> 01:24:06.079 postman will go around and he collects bits of things 1627 01:24:06.119 --> 01:24:10.159 from the pre war period and he'll like impress people 1628 01:24:10.199 --> 01:24:13.680 with like here's a le leardo to teenage mutant ninja 1629 01:24:13.680 --> 01:24:16.520 turtle figure. Well, that is so similar to what he 1630 01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:19.439 was doing in water World when he would dive down 1631 01:24:19.600 --> 01:24:22.359 and take you know, like dirt from the bottom of 1632 01:24:22.399 --> 01:24:24.159 the ocean or any of that kind of stuff. And 1633 01:24:24.159 --> 01:24:26.720 it's just like, oh, yeah, here's this thing that I found, 1634 01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:29.159 and that becomes oh, you have paper, Oh my god, 1635 01:24:29.199 --> 01:24:32.119 I haven't seen paper in forever. I mean, the one 1636 01:24:32.239 --> 01:24:35.399 version of water World that I like even better than 1637 01:24:35.439 --> 01:24:39.319 the theatrical version. It runs about three hours and it 1638 01:24:39.359 --> 01:24:41.600 moves so much better than this movie does. 1639 01:24:42.600 --> 01:24:46.199 Realizing this movie came out the same year as Contact, 1640 01:24:46.279 --> 01:24:51.640 Starship Troopers and Titanic, and I remember at this time, 1641 01:24:51.920 --> 01:24:54.119 like you know, most fifteen year old of the era, 1642 01:24:54.760 --> 01:24:57.279 I was a big fan of the National Inquirer. I 1643 01:24:57.399 --> 01:25:00.560 used to really like reading it, and every week there 1644 01:25:00.560 --> 01:25:03.840 would be an article about Titanic, the same way three 1645 01:25:03.920 --> 01:25:06.159 years earlier, every week there would be an article about 1646 01:25:06.239 --> 01:25:09.399 water World, Right, water World is this disaster? I remember 1647 01:25:09.439 --> 01:25:12.439 one short article about how talking about how much money 1648 01:25:12.479 --> 01:25:15.800 Kevin Coster was spending. How they filmed a scene where 1649 01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:17.399 he was supposed to fall in like a vat of 1650 01:25:17.439 --> 01:25:20.800 like oil, and it was jello and it was cherry 1651 01:25:20.800 --> 01:25:23.840 flavored jello, and Kevin Coster immediately yelled cut and said no, 1652 01:25:23.920 --> 01:25:26.039 I said strawberry, and they had to reload it with 1653 01:25:26.079 --> 01:25:30.840 strawberry jello. And I don't remember anything about the Postman 1654 01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:34.279 because all of that attention was on Titanic. Every week 1655 01:25:34.319 --> 01:25:37.079 it was Titanic's budgets now one hundred million, Titanic budgets 1656 01:25:37.079 --> 01:25:39.520 now at one hundred and twenty million. And The Postman 1657 01:25:39.680 --> 01:25:43.239 in some ways got so lucky because it was not 1658 01:25:43.560 --> 01:25:47.359 the disaster it was not anticipated to be the disaster 1659 01:25:47.479 --> 01:25:49.960 it was going to be because the world was waiting 1660 01:25:49.960 --> 01:25:53.640 with bated breath for Titanic to fail. And what do 1661 01:25:53.640 --> 01:25:56.880 you know, Titanic the most expensive movie at that time, 1662 01:25:57.319 --> 01:26:01.640 but yet it's huge and The Postman does not at all, 1663 01:26:02.119 --> 01:26:04.159 but is not. I don't know how much money had 1664 01:26:04.199 --> 01:26:07.560 ultimately lost because it was it seems like they spent 1665 01:26:07.680 --> 01:26:09.800 money on this movie, and apparently, if some of the 1666 01:26:09.960 --> 01:26:12.680 articles are to be believed, like they wasted a lot of 1667 01:26:12.680 --> 01:26:15.039 time and money on this too. Like there's article in 1668 01:26:15.119 --> 01:26:18.479 how like Kevin Costner would like because he was in 1669 01:26:18.600 --> 01:26:20.680 charge in so many ways that he was not looking 1670 01:26:20.720 --> 01:26:23.199 at the weather forecasts. So they'd show up and be 1671 01:26:23.199 --> 01:26:24.920 like it's raining today. He's like, Okay, I guess we're 1672 01:26:24.960 --> 01:26:26.960 not shooting. I guess I'm gonna go golfing or something 1673 01:26:27.359 --> 01:26:29.960 that it seemed like a little bit of do you 1674 01:26:30.039 --> 01:26:33.039 understand how much your people's money you're spending by doing 1675 01:26:33.039 --> 01:26:37.720 this movie. But again, the movie kind of like got Away. 1676 01:26:37.880 --> 01:26:40.680 We talk more about water World being a failure than 1677 01:26:40.720 --> 01:26:43.000 we do about The Postman being a failure. Water World 1678 01:26:43.039 --> 01:26:44.920 made money in the end, the Postman did not. 1679 01:26:45.720 --> 01:26:48.640 Yeah, well was it eighty million dollar budget? They say, 1680 01:26:48.640 --> 01:26:51.680 and I'm made back thirty. I can't remember if it 1681 01:26:51.720 --> 01:26:55.319 was britn because I watched all those interviews and one 1682 01:26:55.359 --> 01:26:59.520 of the people said about Titanic. They're like, yeah, we 1683 01:26:59.640 --> 01:27:02.439 ended up being the Titanic, And the Titanic movie was 1684 01:27:02.439 --> 01:27:03.039 the Iceberg. 1685 01:27:03.119 --> 01:27:06.960 The Iceberg, yep, I think that was Brendanah and. 1686 01:27:07.000 --> 01:27:07.560 I know it was. 1687 01:27:07.680 --> 01:27:10.159 Yeah, I saw in the theaters like for better or worse. 1688 01:27:10.279 --> 01:27:13.680 I'm not a big fan of Titanic, but there's a. 1689 01:27:13.600 --> 01:27:16.279 Lot to be said negatively about Titanic, But Titanic is 1690 01:27:16.319 --> 01:27:19.760 an experience and that was a movie that ultimately, and 1691 01:27:20.039 --> 01:27:22.800 it's been true of every James Cameron movie kind of 1692 01:27:22.840 --> 01:27:25.680 before and after. It is easy to mock the man. 1693 01:27:25.800 --> 01:27:28.560 It's easy to doubt the man. I'm sure he's a 1694 01:27:28.600 --> 01:27:32.760 miserable man to like actually be around regularly, but he 1695 01:27:34.319 --> 01:27:37.720 fundamentally he is confident in himself, and he knows what's 1696 01:27:37.720 --> 01:27:40.560 gonna work, and he has always been right. Titanic was 1697 01:27:40.560 --> 01:27:42.399 supposed to be a disaster, it was not. Terminator two 1698 01:27:42.399 --> 01:27:44.960 was suposed to be a disaster, it was not. I remember 1699 01:27:45.119 --> 01:27:47.840 everybody doubting Avatar, and I remember thinking, you're wrong, that's 1700 01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:49.920 gonna be the biggest movie of all time, and it 1701 01:27:50.079 --> 01:27:54.159 was and it you know, most people can't do that, 1702 01:27:54.239 --> 01:27:55.920 and Kevin Costner certainly couldn't. 1703 01:27:56.760 --> 01:27:59.920 I understand he's leaving Yellowstone to direct three more movies. 1704 01:28:00.439 --> 01:28:02.640 I wonder, well, you know he did the one right, 1705 01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:06.479 and he's still yeah, it was such a disaster. And 1706 01:28:06.479 --> 01:28:08.560 did he film the second part? Or was it that 1707 01:28:08.640 --> 01:28:11.399 it was like all prepped and because it was supposed 1708 01:28:11.439 --> 01:28:13.560 to be like a three part epic. 1709 01:28:13.319 --> 01:28:15.640 Thing, he's still trying to do it. I think he. 1710 01:28:15.960 --> 01:28:17.800 I think he's going to have a difficult time. 1711 01:28:18.039 --> 01:28:21.840 I thought Horizon and American Saga at Horizon and two 1712 01:28:21.920 --> 01:28:24.039 already came out, or was it just part one? 1713 01:28:24.239 --> 01:28:28.760 The first one came out and was like a miserable failure. 1714 01:28:29.479 --> 01:28:31.159 I thought the second one was then supposed to go 1715 01:28:31.239 --> 01:28:37.119 like straight to DVD or like I think whoever was 1716 01:28:37.239 --> 01:28:39.560 backing the first one was like, oh you know what, No, 1717 01:28:39.680 --> 01:28:43.279 we're we don't need to pick up this contract. Chapter 1718 01:28:43.319 --> 01:28:48.279 two mom filming began. Yeah, I guess maybe it actually 1719 01:28:49.039 --> 01:28:54.520 was filmed, but I don't think it's getting a cinematic release. 1720 01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:58.000 Oh No. Premiered at the Santa Barbara International Film Festival 1721 01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:01.159 in twenty twenty five, and it's the last time anybody 1722 01:29:01.199 --> 01:29:02.560 who's ever talked about it. 1723 01:29:02.560 --> 01:29:07.560 It's really difficult when you really want to do something 1724 01:29:07.840 --> 01:29:11.680 and it is not your forte. 1725 01:29:12.800 --> 01:29:18.279 When you have enough clout and money that you can 1726 01:29:18.359 --> 01:29:21.159 do it, you can physically do it, somebody will give 1727 01:29:21.199 --> 01:29:22.640 you the money to do it, somebody will give you 1728 01:29:22.680 --> 01:29:25.680 the permission to do it, and you have too much 1729 01:29:25.720 --> 01:29:28.279 confidence not to do it. It's a shame. I have 1730 01:29:28.359 --> 01:29:30.600 actually not seen Dances with Wolves. It's on. It's one 1731 01:29:30.640 --> 01:29:32.760 of those best pictures I've always meant to and just 1732 01:29:32.760 --> 01:29:33.680 haven't yet. 1733 01:29:34.039 --> 01:29:37.399 It's fine, it has lots of It's very beautiful in 1734 01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:40.079 a lot of ways. It's very cool to see like 1735 01:29:40.640 --> 01:29:44.359 West two Dy and Graham Groon and the whole old 1736 01:29:44.399 --> 01:29:49.359 Western gang and I'll best actors in their bones. 1737 01:29:50.279 --> 01:29:52.039 I mean, it's crazy to realize he has directed a 1738 01:29:52.039 --> 01:29:54.560 lot less movies than I realized he has, because I 1739 01:29:54.560 --> 01:29:58.359 think in my head I know how involved he was 1740 01:29:59.319 --> 01:30:02.720 during in post production on Robin Hood and Water Like 1741 01:30:02.840 --> 01:30:05.720 he recut Water World right. Ultimately, the theatrical version I 1742 01:30:05.720 --> 01:30:08.000 think was his. So I think of him as a 1743 01:30:08.119 --> 01:30:10.920 more of a director than he probably is on paper. 1744 01:30:11.640 --> 01:30:13.520 He really wants to be, like I think that's what 1745 01:30:13.560 --> 01:30:14.880 he wants to do and what he wants to be 1746 01:30:14.960 --> 01:30:15.680 remembered for. 1747 01:30:16.039 --> 01:30:17.720 He wants to be an auturist. 1748 01:30:18.039 --> 01:30:20.279 Did you guys suffer? See Detroit Metal City? 1749 01:30:21.119 --> 01:30:21.479 Mm mm. 1750 01:30:22.399 --> 01:30:24.640 I always think about it in these situations because it's 1751 01:30:24.640 --> 01:30:27.880 the first time I really consciously thought about, like what 1752 01:30:27.920 --> 01:30:29.960 you wanted to be good at and what you were 1753 01:30:30.039 --> 01:30:34.319 good at. And in this case, it's about a guy 1754 01:30:34.399 --> 01:30:38.279 who wants to do Swedish what he calls Swedish pop, 1755 01:30:38.840 --> 01:30:41.239 and he has like a little mushroom cut and he 1756 01:30:41.319 --> 01:30:44.600 wants to sing these bright, cheerful songs. But what he's 1757 01:30:44.640 --> 01:30:49.239 really good at is black metal, and he ends up 1758 01:30:49.239 --> 01:30:52.239 being in a band trying to get his Swedish pop 1759 01:30:52.319 --> 01:30:57.760 songs produced. But everyone loves Detroit Metal City, which is 1760 01:30:57.800 --> 01:31:01.840 the name of his band. It's from a manga and 1761 01:31:01.880 --> 01:31:04.960 he just looks so devastated in his face paint and 1762 01:31:05.039 --> 01:31:10.760 his kiss boots and his Lord Yama's water buffalo on 1763 01:31:10.920 --> 01:31:13.760 stage to frighten people at the image of death and 1764 01:31:14.000 --> 01:31:18.800 engaged in a battle of the bands with Gene Simmons 1765 01:31:18.840 --> 01:31:20.199 singing fucking him Palace. 1766 01:31:20.479 --> 01:31:22.960 It's the opposite to me of the movie Rudy, which 1767 01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:26.159 I hate. I know people love Rudy. I know people 1768 01:31:26.279 --> 01:31:30.439 like have modeled their you know, goals and ambitions and 1769 01:31:30.479 --> 01:31:32.600 pride on that movie. And I watch it and I'm like, 1770 01:31:33.479 --> 01:31:36.560 but he's not good. You can't just get something because 1771 01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:39.760 you really want it. Yes, sometimes you're not right for something, 1772 01:31:40.359 --> 01:31:42.439 and you shouldn't be on the Notre Dame football team 1773 01:31:42.560 --> 01:31:45.199 if you're five to three and can't actually play football, 1774 01:31:45.239 --> 01:31:46.159 no matter how much you want it. 1775 01:31:46.239 --> 01:31:49.399 Bat foot nothing, you weigh one hundred and nothing. I 1776 01:31:49.439 --> 01:31:52.520 remember that trailer from Blockbuster a lot. 1777 01:31:54.319 --> 01:31:56.920 And you don't get You don't get something just because 1778 01:31:56.960 --> 01:31:59.000 you want it. And I mean you're Kevin Costner, so 1779 01:31:59.119 --> 01:32:02.560 you yet the ability to direct films, and I mean 1780 01:32:02.600 --> 01:32:05.600 Horizon was set to be people thought it might be 1781 01:32:05.680 --> 01:32:08.159 the best picture when it was announced because it has 1782 01:32:08.199 --> 01:32:10.840 a great cast. It was like, oh, Kevin Costner back 1783 01:32:10.840 --> 01:32:13.560 to directing a western. This could this could be something. 1784 01:32:14.079 --> 01:32:15.840 And I mean I remember it's showing up on a 1785 01:32:15.880 --> 01:32:20.520 lot of like most anticipated lists, and then it came 1786 01:32:20.560 --> 01:32:24.640 out and people are, oh, lead, this is the Postman, 1787 01:32:24.720 --> 01:32:28.680 Kevin Costner. Not cancel the polls, Kevin Costner, I don't know, 1788 01:32:28.760 --> 01:32:31.960 but give this to another director, give give this, yeah, 1789 01:32:32.119 --> 01:32:33.479 another reboot. I'm all taken. 1790 01:32:34.319 --> 01:32:36.119 Yeah, to your point, I think this would make a 1791 01:32:36.159 --> 01:32:38.680 great television mini series or series. 1792 01:32:39.560 --> 01:32:41.640 You could play around a lot with the genders. You 1793 01:32:41.680 --> 01:32:44.760 could flip a lot of things. You could explore the 1794 01:32:44.840 --> 01:32:47.680 racism or or not. You could make it more about 1795 01:32:48.079 --> 01:32:51.880 physical ability and have it be that kind of story 1796 01:32:51.960 --> 01:32:54.880 that's about ableism or something to that effect. Like there's 1797 01:32:54.920 --> 01:32:57.880 a lot that you know, Again, I didn't love the novel, 1798 01:32:58.039 --> 01:33:00.720 but I think there's a lot in that novel that 1799 01:33:00.800 --> 01:33:03.439 I understand why a lot of people were drawn to 1800 01:33:03.479 --> 01:33:05.159 it and said, I want to make this movie. I 1801 01:33:05.199 --> 01:33:08.640 want to be in this movie. It's again I'm saying 1802 01:33:08.640 --> 01:33:10.680 it's a shame. I think I probably enjoyed this a 1803 01:33:10.680 --> 01:33:12.840 little bit more of the books of You, just from 1804 01:33:12.840 --> 01:33:16.119 an entertainment point of view, because I can enjoy something 1805 01:33:16.159 --> 01:33:18.600 that's trying really hard and failing, and that's what I 1806 01:33:18.600 --> 01:33:20.880 feel like this movie does. But I still think like 1807 01:33:21.079 --> 01:33:24.119 there's still there's there's wheels in this thing to give 1808 01:33:24.119 --> 01:33:24.600 it another go. 1809 01:33:24.960 --> 01:33:28.199 I'm a little confounded because I can almost always do that, 1810 01:33:28.479 --> 01:33:30.680 and this is the first movie in a long time 1811 01:33:30.760 --> 01:33:34.399 that I really had trouble with. I'm still thinking about, like, 1812 01:33:34.560 --> 01:33:39.239 what is it about it? Because I enjoy zombie like 1813 01:33:39.399 --> 01:33:44.960 say like which has terrible pacing and but but it 1814 01:33:45.039 --> 01:33:48.319 has charm to it that and I feel like there's 1815 01:33:48.520 --> 01:33:54.319 the smelding of Oscar level sensibility, Like there's Oscar level music, 1816 01:33:54.439 --> 01:33:58.760 there's Oscar level cinematography all that. The cast is fantastic, 1817 01:33:59.439 --> 01:34:02.319 and it's been merged into what I would normally see 1818 01:34:02.479 --> 01:34:05.600 as a very low budget straight to video kind of thing. 1819 01:34:06.039 --> 01:34:08.479 That would have been that way for if Kevin Costner 1820 01:34:08.520 --> 01:34:11.800 hadn't been involved in nineteen ninety seven, Like you say, now, 1821 01:34:12.119 --> 01:34:16.039 it could be a very cool prestige mini series. It 1822 01:34:16.079 --> 01:34:19.479 could you know, like murder Bot or the Dune stuff, 1823 01:34:19.760 --> 01:34:24.439 And instead we're trying really hard to elevate the material. 1824 01:34:24.760 --> 01:34:26.880 And I don't know, maybe it's as simple as that 1825 01:34:26.880 --> 01:34:29.680 that I can't deal with the elevating of the material. 1826 01:34:30.680 --> 01:34:34.720 I mentioned things like the It's me line or the 1827 01:34:34.720 --> 01:34:40.880 little girl singing America the beautiful. There are so many 1828 01:34:41.159 --> 01:34:46.239 clunkers in this movie where you're just laughing out loud, 1829 01:34:46.359 --> 01:34:48.960 like you give away hope, like you're giving away. 1830 01:34:48.720 --> 01:34:51.800 Candy that one I might adopt. And that's where you're like, 1831 01:34:51.880 --> 01:34:56.800 Olivia Williams, you pour a beautiful creature. I love the uh. 1832 01:34:56.840 --> 01:34:58.520 There was one of the interviews with her, because this 1833 01:34:58.600 --> 01:35:01.520 was her first Hollywood film, right, she basically came straight 1834 01:35:01.560 --> 01:35:03.520 over on a plane from England and was like shoved 1835 01:35:03.520 --> 01:35:06.760 on set and the you know interviewer it's like one 1836 01:35:06.800 --> 01:35:09.680 of those typical like very like Hollywood talking it up 1837 01:35:09.680 --> 01:35:13.600 and everything and favorite the exact line they say to 1838 01:35:13.640 --> 01:35:16.119 her was something like, oh, you know, like, were you 1839 01:35:16.159 --> 01:35:18.079 really was this what you were looking for? Were you 1840 01:35:18.119 --> 01:35:20.720 excited to do it? And she's basically said, like, you know, 1841 01:35:20.760 --> 01:35:23.119 you're an actor, you take what comes to you. Yeah. 1842 01:35:23.159 --> 01:35:25.039 I liked I liked the part where she was like 1843 01:35:25.119 --> 01:35:27.359 when they kept asking her trying to get her to 1844 01:35:27.399 --> 01:35:29.920 be excited about it, She's like, well, I'm really looking 1845 01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:32.359 forward to the good work I can get from this now, 1846 01:35:32.760 --> 01:35:35.520 don't make her be any more damningly polite. 1847 01:35:36.039 --> 01:35:37.880 I'm saying I'll never watch it again, but no, that's 1848 01:35:37.880 --> 01:35:40.039 not true. If this is on cable one day, I 1849 01:35:40.079 --> 01:35:42.600 will absolutely flick it on and be like, Okay, I 1850 01:35:42.640 --> 01:35:45.720 guess I'm gonna whisk my eggs to the scene where, 1851 01:35:45.760 --> 01:35:48.119 you know, whatever scene it is not in a way 1852 01:35:48.159 --> 01:35:50.039 that like a Field of Dreams is on, I will 1853 01:35:50.039 --> 01:35:51.920 stop whatever I'm doing and be like, all right, guy, 1854 01:35:51.920 --> 01:35:54.279 start watching the rest of Field of Dreams again. With 1855 01:35:54.359 --> 01:35:57.920 this one, I think it is watchable. I think it 1856 01:35:58.000 --> 01:36:00.439 is I say that it's not watching able to sit 1857 01:36:00.479 --> 01:36:02.520 down and watch it for three hours. But I think 1858 01:36:02.560 --> 01:36:04.840 this is one that in passing. If I walked by 1859 01:36:04.880 --> 01:36:06.439 and this was on TV, Okay, I'm gonna leave it 1860 01:36:06.479 --> 01:36:09.159 on for a while, laugh a little kind of again, 1861 01:36:09.319 --> 01:36:12.600 appreciate the horse three in the movie, and move on 1862 01:36:12.720 --> 01:36:16.000 with my life. But it's fascinating to me in how 1863 01:36:16.640 --> 01:36:19.359 much it wanted to do and how it was just 1864 01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:21.000 in the wrong hands to do it. 1865 01:36:21.760 --> 01:36:24.159 I would like to want to watch it while I 1866 01:36:24.239 --> 01:36:27.800 did laundry. I think I will find some I think 1867 01:36:27.880 --> 01:36:30.800 I'll turn to water World while I do laundry. 1868 01:36:31.680 --> 01:36:34.800 Yeah, I'm glad that there was a fan edit of this. 1869 01:36:35.079 --> 01:36:38.800 I think it's definitely stronger. I think they Carol you 1870 01:36:38.840 --> 01:36:42.760 pointed out the a spark of hope subtitle. Yes given 1871 01:36:42.880 --> 01:36:45.600 is really kind of overwrought, but that's very much in 1872 01:36:45.720 --> 01:36:46.760 keeping with this movie. 1873 01:36:47.039 --> 01:36:48.880 It's the same. Yeah, it might be appropriate. 1874 01:36:48.960 --> 01:36:52.199 Yeah, but yeah, I even with that, I don't think 1875 01:36:52.199 --> 01:36:55.279 it can really save what's here. It definitely makes a 1876 01:36:55.319 --> 01:36:58.279 move faster, which thank you for that. Appreciate that one. 1877 01:36:58.359 --> 01:37:01.319 But yeah, no, water is where it's at for me 1878 01:37:01.399 --> 01:37:03.399 when it comes to this stuff. And there's a lot 1879 01:37:03.439 --> 01:37:05.640 of other Costner films where I'm like, Okay, yeah, let's 1880 01:37:05.680 --> 01:37:07.680 check this out. Like I would love to go back 1881 01:37:07.760 --> 01:37:10.119 and rewatch Silverado. It's been way too long since I've 1882 01:37:10.119 --> 01:37:12.279 seen that. 1883 01:37:12.279 --> 01:37:13.920 That is a good time of a movie. 1884 01:37:14.399 --> 01:37:17.920 Again, He's kind of like very minor to the cast, 1885 01:37:18.039 --> 01:37:20.960 you know, compared to you know, like Kevin Klein or 1886 01:37:21.119 --> 01:37:22.640 Danny Glover, these guys. 1887 01:37:22.960 --> 01:37:25.199 It's a shame that he got so big so quick, 1888 01:37:25.279 --> 01:37:27.079 because I think he is somebody that could have been 1889 01:37:27.119 --> 01:37:31.079 a great supporting actor in a lot of things, or 1890 01:37:31.119 --> 01:37:31.479 do like. 1891 01:37:31.399 --> 01:37:34.880 A Chris Cooper, you know, like have some small ey 1892 01:37:35.119 --> 01:37:37.560 movies that are like Buldeom and stuff. 1893 01:37:37.760 --> 01:37:41.119 But just as soon as he got that power and 1894 01:37:41.760 --> 01:37:45.640 could direct and star in his own projects, you can't 1895 01:37:45.680 --> 01:37:48.039 do that if you don't have the ability to step 1896 01:37:48.039 --> 01:37:52.239 outside yourself and and know your strengths and weaknesses. Like right, 1897 01:37:52.279 --> 01:37:54.880 because I don't think he is an overly classically trained actor. 1898 01:37:55.039 --> 01:37:57.640 I don't you know. And again, he is to me 1899 01:37:57.720 --> 01:38:00.880 the definitive person when I think of like an actor 1900 01:38:00.920 --> 01:38:04.479 who I think is a film actor who is charismatic 1901 01:38:04.520 --> 01:38:07.479 but is not necessarily a good actor. And again, he's 1902 01:38:07.520 --> 01:38:11.319 been good in film, But I don't think he is 1903 01:38:11.359 --> 01:38:15.479 who he is because he is a trained actor with 1904 01:38:15.520 --> 01:38:18.520 great instincts. I think he just has that thing that 1905 01:38:18.600 --> 01:38:21.760 works really well on camera, and when it's done right 1906 01:38:21.800 --> 01:38:25.399 and exploited right, it's really watchable and it can really 1907 01:38:25.439 --> 01:38:29.920 make a movie better. And when it's front and center 1908 01:38:30.079 --> 01:38:33.760 without any editing and directing around it, it is a 1909 01:38:33.800 --> 01:38:34.600 three hour slog. 1910 01:38:35.399 --> 01:38:37.840 He does have the honor of being in one of 1911 01:38:37.880 --> 01:38:41.159 my least favorite movies ever, which I only made it 1912 01:38:41.199 --> 01:38:44.680 through one time in the movie theater, which is Dragonfly 1913 01:38:44.880 --> 01:38:47.960 from two thousand and two. I don't know if you've 1914 01:38:48.000 --> 01:38:50.760 ever heard of this movie. It's a Tom Shadack film, 1915 01:38:51.159 --> 01:38:54.560 and it's about a grieving doctor who's contacted by his 1916 01:38:55.479 --> 01:39:01.600 deceased wife through her patients near death experiences. It is what. 1917 01:39:01.600 --> 01:39:02.760 It sounds like, some wretch. 1918 01:39:03.000 --> 01:39:05.199 It absolutely wretched. 1919 01:39:05.640 --> 01:39:08.560 Oh you've so made me add this to Mike Cue 1920 01:39:08.760 --> 01:39:12.760 Linda the Haunt and Gathy Bates. I just got I 1921 01:39:12.840 --> 01:39:15.560 just skimmed like this synopsis. The first thing I see 1922 01:39:15.600 --> 01:39:17.960 is when Joe arrives at his home, his parent goes 1923 01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:21.159 into a rage. I mean you sold me on that? 1924 01:39:22.279 --> 01:39:23.880 Do another feminine critique? 1925 01:39:24.439 --> 01:39:28.000 Definitely, Yes, Yes, that's what we're doing. 1926 01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:30.800 All right, guys, we're going to take a break and 1927 01:39:30.840 --> 01:39:33.199 play your preview for next week's show right after these 1928 01:39:33.199 --> 01:39:34.039 brief messages. 1929 01:39:34.520 --> 01:39:38.279 Matt from Viva again and Emily looking for something superior 1930 01:39:38.399 --> 01:39:40.920 to streaming a place with more than ten times the 1931 01:39:40.960 --> 01:39:44.800 selection available on literally all of the streaming services combined. 1932 01:39:45.039 --> 01:39:47.800 Check out Scaracrow Videos rent by mail service, Select from 1933 01:39:47.840 --> 01:39:50.079 an unparalleled collection of over one hundred and fifty five 1934 01:39:50.119 --> 01:39:52.800 thousand films, and get blu rays, four k's and DVDs 1935 01:39:52.840 --> 01:39:54.159 delivered directly to your door. 1936 01:39:54.359 --> 01:39:57.199 Get in on it now at Scarecrowvideo dot org and 1937 01:39:57.279 --> 01:40:09.520 rediscover the wonders of physical meet Yeah, no. 1938 01:40:11.760 --> 01:41:36.279 Sh shod, oh God, A thousand miles your own alone. 1939 01:41:43.880 --> 01:41:50.359 You'll count back count some day, You'll count back home 1940 01:41:50.640 --> 01:41:51.520 some day. 1941 01:41:56.000 --> 01:41:57.680 You steal up. 1942 01:42:01.399 --> 01:42:15.319 In costs, star shot and no Opera extracts. 1943 01:42:15.479 --> 01:42:20.880 Come Back comes Day, You're a black Cosme. 1944 01:42:20.600 --> 01:42:49.800 Day extras, no shust come back Concdays Consisday. 1945 01:42:53.199 --> 01:42:59.000 Nay, that's right. 1946 01:42:59.039 --> 01:43:01.840 We'll be back next week, kicking off a whole month 1947 01:43:01.960 --> 01:43:07.399 of Western Discussions where we start with Massacre time. Until then, 1948 01:43:07.479 --> 01:43:11.039 I want to thank my co hosts Emily and Jane. Emily, 1949 01:43:11.119 --> 01:43:12.000 what's been going on with you? 1950 01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:15.560 Well, obviously I'm going to be watching Dragonfly on to 1951 01:43:15.800 --> 01:43:19.159 B because that's where it's streaming. But aside from that, 1952 01:43:19.479 --> 01:43:21.880 you can find my writing at Deadly Dollshouse dot com 1953 01:43:22.600 --> 01:43:25.279 and my podcast with the wonderful Christine nick These at 1954 01:43:25.319 --> 01:43:28.720 The Feminine Critique. We just did an episode off in 1955 01:43:30.239 --> 01:43:33.880 Christine had a great goal of watching more movies directed 1956 01:43:33.920 --> 01:43:37.680 by women, So this somehow led us to pairing for 1957 01:43:37.920 --> 01:43:43.399 Ephron's Julie and Julia with Julia Dick Harno's Titan. So 1958 01:43:43.880 --> 01:43:47.039 that's our latest episode, the double pairing that was always. 1959 01:43:46.840 --> 01:43:48.920 Meant to be and Carol, how about yourself? 1960 01:43:50.199 --> 01:43:54.600 I will obviously be reading and listening to Emily's discussion 1961 01:43:54.680 --> 01:43:59.279 of Dragonfly and you can find me at the Cultural Gutter. 1962 01:44:00.079 --> 01:44:03.960 Strangely enough, my latest piece there is a nineteen ninety 1963 01:44:04.000 --> 01:44:07.560 seventh film, The Office Killer, which is directed by a 1964 01:44:07.720 --> 01:44:14.760 female director and art fine art photographer Cindy Sherman. And 1965 01:44:15.159 --> 01:44:18.600 we've recently hired a new editor on, Michelle Kisner, who 1966 01:44:19.479 --> 01:44:22.159 fans of the Projection Booth might be familiar with from 1967 01:44:22.319 --> 01:44:23.239 her episodes here. 1968 01:44:24.840 --> 01:44:26.840 Thanks again, folks for being on the show, Thanks to 1969 01:44:26.920 --> 01:44:28.680 everybody for listening. If you want to hear more of 1970 01:44:28.760 --> 01:44:30.359 me shooting off my mouth, check out some of the 1971 01:44:30.399 --> 01:44:32.880 other shows that I work on. They are all available 1972 01:44:32.920 --> 01:44:36.840 at Weirdingwaymedia dot com. Thanks especially to our Patreon community. 1973 01:44:37.000 --> 01:44:39.640 If you want to join the community, visit patreon dot com. 1974 01:44:39.760 --> 01:44:43.039 Slash Projection Booth. Every donation we get help some Projection 1975 01:44:43.119 --> 01:44:44.239 Booth take over the world. 1976 01:44:53.359 --> 01:44:57.680 I gave a letter to the postman, put it in 1977 01:44:57.880 --> 01:45:04.479 his side, biting her. The next morning he brought. 1978 01:45:04.479 --> 01:45:09.800 My letter back. She rode about it, returned in the cylinder. 1979 01:45:11.720 --> 01:45:22.680 Had dress sudden No such number those such song we 1980 01:45:22.960 --> 01:45:32.279 had had a bottom a love spat. I'm sorry, put 1981 01:45:32.640 --> 01:45:37.960 my letter keeps coming back. So when I dropped it 1982 01:45:38.039 --> 01:45:42.119 in the mail box, that's saying a special. 1983 01:45:44.399 --> 01:45:45.039 Brit in her. 1984 01:45:45.199 --> 01:45:49.439 The next morning he came right back to me. 1985 01:45:50.159 --> 01:45:56.159 She rode upbout it returned in the cylinder. That dress 1986 01:45:56.279 --> 01:46:01.159 sudden though those such person. 1987 01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:09.399 Such this time, I'm going to take ad byself and 1988 01:46:09.560 --> 01:46:13.079 put it in her head, and. 1989 01:46:13.239 --> 01:46:18.119 It becomes black the very next time. Then along the 1990 01:46:18.359 --> 01:46:36.079 step at this bottom go such number such return. 1991 01:46:48.640 --> 01:46:50.960 Want to support physical media and get great movies in 1992 01:46:51.000 --> 01:46:53.720 the mail, head over to Scarecrow Video dot Org and try. 1993 01:46:53.760 --> 01:46:56.640 Scarecrow Video is incredible rent by mail service, right. 1994 01:46:56.640 --> 01:47:00.319 Matt, that's right, Emily the largest publicly accessible collection in 1995 01:47:00.439 --> 01:47:03.439 the world. You'll find films that are entirely unavailable elsewhere. 1996 01:47:03.760 --> 01:47:05.720 Get what you want when you want it directly to 1997 01:47:05.800 --> 01:47:06.119 your door. 1998 01:47:06.800 --> 01:47:07.119 Again. 1999 01:47:07.560 --> 01:47:11.319 Visit Scarecrow Video dot Org now and watch us on 2000 01:47:11.520 --> 01:47:14.000 Viva Physical Media every Sunday