WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:00.840 Our next guest. 2 00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:02.799 It's been a minute, but I always smile when I 3 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:04.400 see him on the rundown because I know we're gonna 4 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:06.320 have a good time on a Tuesday afternoon with the 5 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:07.360 legend himself. 6 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:09.839 I an Eagle. I am happy Tuesday, sir. How are 7 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:10.839 you hey? 8 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:14.119 What's up? Spence? Thank you very much for the in 9 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:19.280 bump music, little Don Henley Eagles. I see the connection, synchronicity. 10 00:00:19.879 --> 00:00:20.800 You got it, my friend? 11 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:23.199 Do you get is this the time of year where 12 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:25.160 you can actually take a deep breath and have a 13 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:26.079 little bit of time off? 14 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:27.399 Am I reading that correctly? 15 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:31.679 You are? Yet today? Literally today was the day and 16 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:34.159 then Porter reached out to me, so that ended. 17 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:36.479 So we're ruining your free time. 18 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:40.079 But truly, I mean, you're a man that grinds and works, 19 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:42.119 and I feel like you're doing something like are you 20 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:44.079 able to breathe a little bit right now? Are you 21 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:45.840 busy working like you seem to always be. 22 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:50.799 No, I'm definitely breathing. I do some voiceover stuff at 23 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:54.399 an NBA voiceover today, so I wasn't completely off, but 24 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:57.960 it's not heavy lifting this time of year. And yeah, 25 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:01.359 it's been great, it's been terrific, just to recharge to 26 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:04.640 the battery to watch the game in a different way 27 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:07.359 through a different lens, the lens of a fan, while 28 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:13.159 also watching it with historical perspective in mind. But the 29 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:18.359 NBA Finals is still a crowning achievement, and these two 30 00:01:18.359 --> 00:01:22.519 teams are just outstanding storylines that deserve to be where 31 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:24.439 they are. They've earned their right to play on the 32 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:26.640 biggest stage they have. 33 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:29.200 So let's do some NBA, let's do some pro basketball, 34 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:32.159 and you know I And it's actually fun to watch 35 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.879 the Knicks play themselves in irrelevance for the first time 36 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:37.920 in a long long time. And obviously, so many memories 37 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:41.359 come flooding back when you see Nick Pacers. Certainly with 38 00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:45.040 those two teams battling, the Pacers deserving victors. But what 39 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:48.000 did you make of the decision to relieve Tom Thibodeau 40 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:51.400 of his duties after bringing them to the Eastern Conference 41 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:53.560 Finals for the first time in twenty five years? 42 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:57.480 Yeah, a little surprised, anticipated that they would run it back. 43 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:00.719 He had just signed an extension. Obviously, being were trending 44 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:04.239 in the right direction, they improved each year, they got 45 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:08.960 around further than they had previously. With Tom Tibodeaux as 46 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:13.560 the head coach, but those pesky little exit interviews could 47 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:16.759 certainly play a role, as we know, and trying to 48 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:20.719 determine the best direction of the team, and my understanding 49 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:24.520 is that some of that may have gone sideways for Tibbs, 50 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:30.159 and unfortunately, as we know, that is enough to cost 51 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:33.599 you your job. In the current climate of the NBA, 52 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:36.919 players have a lot of power, and rightfully so, they 53 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:40.960 deserve to have some say, but they're certain owners that 54 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:44.000 will not get involved in that end of it. It 55 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:46.919 feels like this may have been a different set of 56 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:51.560 circumstances where there were some feelings within one side of 57 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:54.879 management that maybe it was time to make a change 58 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:58.400 and get some new blood and a new voice in 59 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:02.560 and look, the results will tell the story. I don't 60 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:04.080 think they're going to run it back with the same 61 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:07.759 exact team. I think there will be changes and certainly 62 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:10.520 a change in philosophy. Ended up calling a bunch of 63 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:14.800 their postseason games in that first round series against Detroit 64 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:19.840 and got a feel for how hard this team fights 65 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:26.240 and the improvement that we saw. But ultimately the way 66 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:31.039 that coach Tibbs approaches this it may have been as 67 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:35.039 undoing the fact that he just believes in riding the 68 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:38.840 starters heavy minutes, and then when they needed some others 69 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:42.000 to step forward, they really didn't have the options they 70 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.960 were hoping for in the conference finals. 71 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.479 You know, I don't want to sound like the guy 72 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:50.840 that's calling these young NBA players coddled, but I wonder 73 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:53.639 you know, Michael Malone loses his job two years after 74 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.840 went into championship. Taylor Jenkins, who kind of has that 75 00:03:56.919 --> 00:04:02.599 old school abrasive communicator cammunication style, loses his job after 76 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:05.960 doing it really not just adequate, but excellent job with 77 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:07.719 the young Memphis team when they were healthy and job 78 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:10.719 was acting right or whatever, and now Tom loses his job. 79 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:14.960 Is the older approach is the Greg Popovitch Jerry Sloan 80 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:17.600 old school approach? Is that out the window based off 81 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:19.800 of maybe how you have to communicate with these younger 82 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:21.600 NBA players, It. 83 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:24.000 Probably is, And you just have to look at the 84 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:28.399 economics of it. When you take the top three highest 85 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:32.199 paid players on an NBA team, they and essence have 86 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:36.319 become almost partners with the owners based on their yearly 87 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:39.879 salary and the commitment level of takes. When you look 88 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:43.360 at the Supermax and how much money you have to 89 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:46.759 invest in these players, and it is an investment. So 90 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:50.720 if things aren't going according to plan, it's much easier 91 00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:54.480 to change a coach who might be making four million, 92 00:04:54.519 --> 00:04:57.839 five million, eight million a year, even on the higher end, 93 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.600 than it is to make it a adjustment with the 94 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.680 player who you're on the hook for in access of 95 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:07.680 two hundred or three hundred million dollars. So just look 96 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:10.879 at how things work in the world and who's going 97 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:13.199 to have a little bit more say and who's going 98 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:17.519 to have leverage in that situation. You have unique circumstances. 99 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:21.439 San Antonio certainly had them because pop kept winning and 100 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:24.879 they reinvented themselves and then they won again with a 101 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:27.279 whole different set of players. So once you get to 102 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:31.680 that place of credibility, ownership is going to side with 103 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:35.480 the Greg Popovich. But even a title you mentioned, Mike 104 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:40.000 Malone won the title with Denver and then there our 105 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:43.079 struggle with the Nuggets between head coach and GM and 106 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:47.000 then they both lost because ownership decided that there was 107 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:51.519 too much toxicity and the players weren't responding. So look, Spence, 108 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:54.920 you've been around this your whole life. I think sometimes 109 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:59.040 it's easy to make proclamations from the outside, and if 110 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:01.279 you don't have all all the information, if you're not 111 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:04.240 privy to it, you may not be aware of the 112 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:08.800 inner workings of a franchise. In the nixt case, it's 113 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.639 not cut and dry. You've got some people within upper 114 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:17.839 management that have a say in matters of the future, 115 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:21.800 and their say might be very different than the vision 116 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:25.360 of the head coach. In this particular example with New York, 117 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:26.279 you know. 118 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:28.240 It's just one more thing here, then we'll move on, 119 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:32.120 because honestly, the Pacers deserve their flowers for winning the series. 120 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:35.360 But you know you love back there obviously. You know 121 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:37.439 you know the ton and tenor of how it's worked 122 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:40.959 and for so many years, and I will just say it, 123 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.519 I do think it comes from their owner, who does 124 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:45.600 play kazoo as a front man in his band and 125 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:48.560 forces employees to go watch his band. And for so 126 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:53.279 many years I felt like it was the decisions made 127 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:56.879 out of emotion that seem to be overly reactive that 128 00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:00.160 wouldn't allow them any traction. And I'm watching the watching 129 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:02.519 them this year, I'm like, Okay, finally Leon Rose. 130 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:03.680 Was able to do this the right way. 131 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:06.160 Over the course of a number of years make some 132 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:07.240 savvy decisions. 133 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:10.439 A lot of people question the Jalen thing. It's clearly worked. 134 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:12.720 They took a risk getting rid of de Vincenzo and 135 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:15.000 Randall to bring in Kat. And you know, I do 136 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:18.560 think Kat has you know, his warts defensively, but I 137 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:20.639 think he played pretty well year one in New York. 138 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:24.079 And I don't think they're a championship roster. I didn't 139 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:28.120 think they were this year. But this once again reeks 140 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:33.000 of desperation. It reeks of impulsivity from an owner that 141 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:35.079 doesn't seem to know how to be patient. And I 142 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:37.519 don't know what's reasonable to expect for a new coach 143 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:38.800 to get more out of this roster. 144 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:39.800 And I really don't. 145 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:43.319 Yeah, it's interesting, and we could play the what if 146 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:46.319 game Spence, But there are many that believe if they 147 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:49.639 got clipped by the Celtics but defending champions in the 148 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:54.160 second round and lost in six games, that Tom Deibodeau 149 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:59.120 may have survived it because they weren't necessarily expected to 150 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:04.439 be Boston. But how does that work when you're actually 151 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.360 a victim of your own success. You beat Boston, you 152 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:11.000 lose to a team that maybe ownership believed you should 153 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:15.000 beat after losing to them last year, and the disappointment 154 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:18.720 of losing to Indiana might have been enough for ownership 155 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.040 to then determine, hey, we got to change some things. 156 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:27.000 We have to alter what our process is. And look, 157 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:30.279 the fact of the matter is, we do not know 158 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.320 what was said behind closed doors. We don't know what 159 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:36.559 the top stars said. We don't know if they were 160 00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:40.240 leading questions for the stars in those exit interviews to 161 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:44.840 get them down a track that allowed and enabled ownership 162 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:48.360 to justify the move ultimately. And you could say Leon 163 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:51.240 Rose is in charge, and look, I do think he's 164 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.759 been given a lot of freedom with this roster, but 165 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:57.000 he still has a boss, and his boss owns the team, 166 00:08:57.279 --> 00:08:59.679 and if the owner wanted to make a change, guess 167 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:01.919 what they're going to make a change. 168 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:05.480 So I've got to say I've been no part of 169 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:07.600 me as a Pacers fan that will not surprise you, 170 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:11.399 but I've been wildly impressed with the way Rick Carlisle's 171 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:13.200 been able to get this group to figure it out. 172 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:15.559 I mean, nobody had them going to the finals to 173 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:19.639 start the year. They're ten and fifteen early on injury issues, 174 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:23.240 and he is maximizing guys like Nemhard and Nie Smith. 175 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:26.840 I mean, the whole discourse around Halliburton has been exhausting. 176 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:29.240 He's an Olympian, he's been an All Star, he's awesome. Like, 177 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:31.159 we don't need to debate whether or not he's good. 178 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:34.039 But it's the antillary pieces that Rick has been able 179 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:36.879 to fit that's been really impressive. So as you watch 180 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:39.799 them advance to the finals and we find themselves very 181 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:41.799 much in this series, what stood out most of you 182 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:43.240 about the way Ricks coached them. 183 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:48.960 Up, Well, it's interesting. I have some experience early in 184 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:52.120 the season the Nets played the Pacers in Indiana was 185 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:54.639 completely out of sorts at that point. So that was 186 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.120 during that start that you just mentioned, and I was 187 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:02.080 shocked because they were or a conference finalist the year before, 188 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:05.960 they were an offensive juggernaut in the twenty three to 189 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.639 twenty four season, and we just weren't seeing it. And 190 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:14.840 Haliburton did look a bit lost and the magic that 191 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:17.519 we had seen from previous seasons just wasn't there, as 192 00:10:17.559 --> 00:10:21.159 confidence level wasn't there coming off the Olympics. We later 193 00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:23.679 come to find out he wasn't a hundred percent physically. 194 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:26.759 He was laboring, and it took some time for him 195 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:30.559 to finally get back into the rhythm. Next time I 196 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:34.840 saw them was a nationally televised game on TNT. It 197 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:38.879 was the Nixon Pacers and they didn't play very well. 198 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.720 The Knicks beat him that night. Karl Anthony Towns went off. 199 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:45.279 They had no answers for him, And I remember sitting 200 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:47.919 with Rick Carlisle prior to the game, and Carlisle is 201 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:53.039 a deep thinker and as a basketball genius, but I 202 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:55.840 felt like he knew it was going to be okay. 203 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:59.480 You know when you sense that from someone despite the result, 204 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.879 I just got the feeling from our fifteen minutes pregame 205 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:09.600 that he recognized that this team was going to make 206 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:13.039 it work and basically told us it was Grant Ill 207 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.080 and I that did that game together. And then the 208 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.679 next time I see him come playoff time, everything is 209 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:23.799 now clicking and everything that Rick envisioned has come to 210 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:29.000 fruition with this group. They're deep, they are versatile, they 211 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:34.879 share the ball. Siakam has been the perfect fit championship pedigree. 212 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:38.240 He has proved himself to be one of the most 213 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:41.840 valuable pieces in the NBA. You mentioned Nie Smith, Unsung, 214 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:48.840 Nemhard Unsung, TJ McConnell unsung. There's a recurring theme with 215 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:52.759 Indiana and when they needed a performance from Thomas Bryant, 216 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:58.039 he steps forward. Obi Toppin occasionally gives you a little 217 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:02.039 extra juice. So this is beyond and just Tyreese Halliburton 218 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:05.799 is as you mentioned, so a lot of respect for 219 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:10.080 this group, very tough, never count them out. They find 220 00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:14.000 a way. With all of that said, I think what 221 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:16.879 you saw in the first two games is very real. 222 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:20.840 And yes they're going home and that should provide an advantage. 223 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.000 They stole Game one, which was huge, but there's still 224 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:29.440 the underdogs in this series. Oksee, They're just so ridiculously 225 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.159 deep and talented that it's going to be a big 226 00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:33.840 challenge for Indiana to overcome. 227 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:34.919 I agree with that. 228 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:38.440 I picked Okase in five, which does not make me 229 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.519 unique at all. I would not be stunned if Indiana 230 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:43.919 gets wanted gaines Bridge, because that crowd is going to 231 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.840 be ready. It's been twenty five years right since the 232 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:51.159 finals in Indianapolis, which is a great basketball city, so 233 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:53.360 I can see them getting one. But before we move 234 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:54.879 on from this, how do you see the rest of 235 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:56.879 it playing out? Do you have a lean one way 236 00:12:56.919 --> 00:12:57.279 or the other. 237 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:02.679 Now I'm leaning towards what you just mentioned. I think 238 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:05.879 they get one, but I don't think they get any 239 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:09.279 more than that the rest of the way. So then 240 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:14.399 that would mean okay, see wins the NBA title in Indianapolis 241 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:17.559 in six games, and that's probably how it's going to 242 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:21.440 play out. How game three goes might change the way 243 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:24.000 we view it. If Indiana goes up to one and 244 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:28.639 then the pressure builds on Okac, then maybe we're seeing 245 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.120 a different tune. But to me, this just has the 246 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.440 feel of a six game NBA Finals with the most 247 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:41.279 dominant team of the season emerging as the champion and 248 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:44.120 hoisting the trophy when it's all said and done. 249 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:46.120 So are Utah Jazz out this way? 250 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:49.039 Iron had the worst season in franchise history and certainly 251 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:51.919 was by design, and so we were all gathered around 252 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:54.559 the television hoping that we would learn the Cooper flag 253 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:57.600 is on his way and he's not the Jazz I 254 00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:01.759 say fall to five. But ultimately the best chance, uh, 255 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:04.480 it was the fifth pick. It was a forty seven 256 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:07.080 point eight percent chance or whatever, only a fourteen percent 257 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:07.799 chance for one. 258 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:10.120 What do you what do you think of the way 259 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:11.200 the NBA does this. 260 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:13.320 As far as the lottery process, of course, we are 261 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:14.519 a little bit frosty out here. 262 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:15.720 We were hoping for number one. 263 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:21.519 Yeah. I think the NBA has made it very clear 264 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:25.200 that they don't want teams tanking, and yet teams still 265 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:31.600 tank because just look at what OKC has done. OKAC 266 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.200 has done it the right way. They've stuck piled picks. 267 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.679 They've been fortunate in the lottery, and when they haven't 268 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.879 been as fortunate in the lottery, they've hit home runs 269 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:45.159 in the first round. They found players that other teams 270 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.039 may not have been interested and turned them into something. 271 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.399 So I think the Thunder probably ended up being the 272 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:55.919 template that everybody wants to follow. But that requires someone 273 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:59.279 like Sam Presty to run your basketball operations and be 274 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:04.200 incredibly shrewd and make strong move after strong move after 275 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:07.840 strong move in the draft and cre agency and in trades. 276 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.559 The lottery itself is what it is, and I know 277 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:16.799 it from the Brooklyn side of things. The fan base 278 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:20.000 got very upset when the team started winning games and 279 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.799 they were competitive. But I can just tell you that 280 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:26.399 Jordi Fernandez didn't view it the same way as the fans. 281 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.919 He viewed it as Hey, these games go on my 282 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:33.480 permanent record. I'm trying to create a feeling of winning 283 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:37.480 within the franchise, and I also want to let people 284 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.279 know around the league that I can coach. I know 285 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.559 what I'm doing, and I do understand all of that. 286 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:48.159 I understand his perspective and trying to run a program 287 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:50.519 day in and day out, and not just looking for 288 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:54.000 ways to lose, but looking for ways to improve. And 289 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.960 sometimes the young guys just did enough to win games 290 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:01.679 they weren't supposed to win. And similar to Jazz fans, 291 00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:04.759 Nets fans were not happy on draft that many years ago. 292 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.440 The Nets had one of the worst seasons in NBA 293 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.200 history and they ended up with the third pick. That 294 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:12.879 was the John Wall draft. I remember watching the lottery 295 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:16.039 that year thinking, Okay, this is it, this is the guy, 296 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:18.240 this is the one that's going to change their franchise. 297 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.360 Washington gets the first pick. Nets don't get the second 298 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:24.799 pick either. Evan Turner is the second pick that year, 299 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.440 and the Nets end up selecting Derek Favors, who, as 300 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.519 you know, they used in the Darren Williams deal. So 301 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.840 you can have best laid plans and then reality. 302 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:37.240 Hits you in the face as someone who at a 303 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:40.399 front row seat, I'm sure multiple times to watch Cooper 304 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:40.960 flag this. 305 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:44.919 Year at Duke. Yeah, is he everything he's cracked up 306 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:45.080 to me? 307 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:47.000 I mean, it's such a weird thing to try to 308 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:49.480 analyze these young men because there's so many things that 309 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:52.519 could happen that could derail them. I don't know that 310 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.320 he's Victor wemb and Ya'm a generational according to people 311 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:57.240 that study this, but it feels like a lot of 312 00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:59.039 people believe that he's next in line. 313 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.519 Is Is he gonna live up to the billion nine? 314 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:04.519 Yeah, I'd be surprised if he's not a big time player. 315 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.200 He looks to me like an all star player. He 316 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.960 can do everything. And the other part that is hard 317 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.039 to gauge because you never quite know until they get there. 318 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.240 He wants to be great, and he'll do the work 319 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.359 necessary to be great, and he's got the right mindset 320 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:25.559 to be great. So if you and I are having 321 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:29.599 this conversation in five years, seven years, ten years and 322 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:33.039 Cooper Flagg did not live up to the billing, I 323 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.039 will look back and say that I was a bit 324 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:41.519 shocked because the skill level is there and the determination 325 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:46.160 is there. You can't ever truly know what's in someone's heart. 326 00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:49.359 But despite all the money and I l this year, 327 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:53.079 despite all the ballet who, despite all the buzz and 328 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:58.200 the hype, Gee was everything that they thought he was 329 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:02.440 going to be. And more so, I'm just using that 330 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:05.599 mentality to the next level. The skills are there, the 331 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:11.079 versatility is there, two way performer. I think he's going 332 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:14.680 to be a legitimate star in the NBA. Yes, I think. 333 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:17.640 One of the other things it seems to be, you know, 334 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:20.599 stinging folks around here a little bit is you look 335 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:22.799 at the past, you know, five, six, seven years in 336 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:27.880 pro basketball where teams in Milwaukee and Denver have won 337 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:31.759 championships and this year Indianapolis and Oklahoma City market sizes 338 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:34.880 that are in our ecosystem kind of where we exist 339 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:35.759 in our cul de sac. 340 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:37.640 And certainly it's by design. 341 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.240 Adam Silver has spoken about this, and you certainly know this. 342 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.799 This is a new era of NBA basketball with very 343 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:46.480 punitive economics. If you decide that you only write checks 344 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:49.519 for the best town in the league, that's no longer sustainable. 345 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.920 I mean, the new owners of the Boston Celtics have 346 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.480 a five hundred dollars luxury tax bill just to have 347 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:58.319 the roster and so and so. I think one of 348 00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:02.480 the things that is kind of disappointing about where we 349 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:06.279 find ourselves is the Jazz currently are not prepared to 350 00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:10.319 capitalize on this new ecosystem where it doesn't matter where 351 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:13.880 you are, You're able to do this anywhere. I wonder 352 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:15.839 what your thoughts are on that. Hopefully the Jazz were 353 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:18.960 able to capitalize on this before the CBA NS in 354 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:20.559 five years to be one of these teams in a 355 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:23.160 small market that's throwing punches with the other best teams. 356 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:23.519 In the league. 357 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:29.079 Yeah, And what's the common theme of all the teams 358 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:33.920 that you just mentioned. Their superstars were not top three 359 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:38.519 or top five picks. Yep, Jannosa deta Compo. Anybody could 360 00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:42.880 have had him without a doubt. Nikola Jokic, anybody could 361 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:46.720 have had him. Shay Gilgis Alexander, he was not a 362 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:50.039 top five pick. He had a really nice rookie season 363 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.920 for the Clippers. And because Kawhi Leonard was in the 364 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.240 process of signing and wanted another proven star with him, 365 00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:01.039 they make the deal with OKC for Paul George and 366 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:03.720 it turns out to be a lopsided deal in favor 367 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.480 of the thunder as SGA turns into an MVP and 368 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:12.319 Hall of Famer before our eyes. So everything that we 369 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:16.160 talked about earlier in regards to making smart basketball decisions, 370 00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:20.160 having some good luck and good fortune, that's where you 371 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.920 stand if you're a Utah Jazz fan. It doesn't have 372 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:27.640 to be the bona fide number one, number two overall pick, 373 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:31.119 but you got to. You gotta make a lot of 374 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:34.880 contact when it comes to this draft. Jalen Williams another 375 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.079 one that comes to mind with OKC not a top 376 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:42.799 five pick. They found him, they developed him. He developed 377 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:46.960 very quickly into an All Star, into an All NBA 378 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:51.079 team performer. And that's what it comes down to. It's 379 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.880 not just lucking out with the ping pong balls going 380 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:57.119 your way. Of course, san Antonio Victor WEMBA Nyama, nobody's 381 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:01.559 going to turn that down. But look at the record, Spence. 382 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.799 It hasn't backed up what Victor is capable of because 383 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:10.440 A he was on a bad team in his first year. 384 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.400 B he got hurt in a second year. C he's 385 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:17.319 playing in a highly competitive Western Conference. So even getting 386 00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:23.160 the generational talent guarantees you nothing in terms of team success. 387 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:24.200 This is true. 388 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:24.440 Ian. 389 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:28.920 Before I set you loose, you referenced NIL earlier and 390 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.319 a couple of figures here. So, according to front Off 391 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:34.480 of Sports, the NBA Draft is down on participants. One 392 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:37.680 hundred and six players entered the draft this year. That's 393 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.960 the lowest number of early entrants since twenty fifteen. Our 394 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.920 early entrance peaked in twenty twenty one with three sixty three, 395 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:45.920 and we all know what happened in twenty twenty one. 396 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:49.880 That's when NIL became a reality. In April, the NFL 397 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.599 Draft had sixty nine under classmen enter the draft. That's 398 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:55.160 down from one to twenty eight in twenty twenty one. 399 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:59.839 Do you think nil will have a adverse effect on 400 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.519 co legian athletics? Are the fact that more kids seem 401 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:04.640