Speaker 1: Hey, welcome back to another episode of the JavaScript Jabber podcast.
Speaker 1: This week on our panel, we have a j O'Neill yoh.
Speaker 2: Yeah yo, coming at you live from Stromboli.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I timed that well. I saw you were chewing food.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I'm Charles Maxwood from Top End Devs and
Speaker 1: this week we have two special guests. We have is
Speaker 1: it how do you say? Ju?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Joel?
Speaker 1: Anywhere close you.
Speaker 4: Can call me Vita. It's easier, I think.
Speaker 1: Okay, do you want to just do a quick introduction
Speaker 1: who you are what you do?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 5: I work full time as a AI engineer in brazilon
Speaker 5: in a innovation lab here, and I also do free
Speaker 5: lancing at Coke Maintur and.
Speaker 6: I helped, I have helped the people from all the world,
Speaker 6: you know, from Cohuxton to Canada. You ask your and
Speaker 6: there I met Manny and the Stephan partnership there.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Yeah, so you mentioned Manny. Manny is our other guest. Manny,
Speaker 1: do you want to introduce yourself real quick?
Speaker 3: Yeah? My name is Manny live in Dallas, Texas.
Speaker 7: I'm a postact Jabascript developer working with React on an
Speaker 7: internal cloud platform for a bank. I been there about
Speaker 7: five years now gets sort of like mid year, mid
Speaker 7: mid level. I think that's what while was describe me as.
Speaker 7: And I actively been seeking mentorship for a while. I
Speaker 7: had a very difficult time finding it until I actually
Speaker 7: got on code Mentor in in Talms as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, we're we're talking about I should set
Speaker 1: the stage.
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 1: We're talking about mentorship and friendship and you know how
Speaker 1: that helps personal growth and things like that is kind
Speaker 1: of the the overall idea that at least was put
Speaker 1: put forward, you know when when Manny and Juau or
Speaker 1: Victor Detour. Sorry, I'm gonna mess that up the whole
Speaker 1: time anyway, So uh, you know that that was the
Speaker 1: idea that we got to while, you know, and why
Speaker 1: we set up this episode is because this is an
Speaker 1: area that I guess we focused a lot on the technology,
Speaker 1: and I think this is an important area. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd love to just kind of get the story. I
Speaker 1: love I love hearing stories. So Manny, maybe you should
Speaker 1: start out and just kind of tell us, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is where I was at, this is this is what
Speaker 1: I was looking for, This is how I found code Mentor,
Speaker 1: And then you know how you kind of moved into
Speaker 1: this you know, mentorship relationship.
Speaker 7: Sure, yeah, so I at thirty five, I you know,
Speaker 7: which is back like in twenty fifteen to give away
Speaker 7: my age, I decided I was going to change my career.
Speaker 7: I know I was going to decided I would change
Speaker 7: my career. I know it's all here, but so I
Speaker 7: decided I was going to change my career, which at
Speaker 7: that stage, like I had like no background in programming
Speaker 7: other than some like HTML stuff I had learned while
Speaker 7: I was a copywriter.
Speaker 3: But I had an interest in all the things that.
Speaker 7: I was told not to touch, like CSS and JavaScript,
Speaker 7: and I just I wanted a better job with you know,
Speaker 7: more fulfilling and you know that way they challenge me
Speaker 7: a little bit more intellectually. So I went to like
Speaker 7: a I don't know if you'd call it a boot camp.
Speaker 7: It is like a nine month kind of like introduction
Speaker 7: to JavaScript. And I learned probably like ten percent of
Speaker 7: what I needed to know there to be successful. So
Speaker 7: I get out of there, I don't know hardly anything,
Speaker 7: and I have to from that point actually start making
Speaker 7: up all the things I need to know to be
Speaker 7: able to get myself into a job.
Speaker 3: After thirty five. So I did a lot.
Speaker 7: Of self study, put myself through like a lot of
Speaker 7: just sort of like rigorous hard lessons of like working
Speaker 7: for free, although I don't recommend that doing internships to
Speaker 7: be able to get the experience that I needed in
Speaker 7: order to be able to build things. So in doing that,
Speaker 7: I learned a lot about how to manipulate data, how
Speaker 7: to think about state on the front end mobile applications.
Speaker 7: I learned a lot from work in solving business problems
Speaker 7: and like critical situations where I had like intense pressure
Speaker 7: on me to do so, which was good. But during
Speaker 7: that process I really like neglected like learning like computer
Speaker 7: science stuff. One probably because I was intimidated by it,
Speaker 7: in two I didn't necessarily need it to get a job.
Speaker 7: And three just like the time allotment that I had,
Speaker 7: you know, versus what I could learn versus what I
Speaker 7: had time to do. So fast forward in my current
Speaker 7: role now for five years, I really liked my job,
Speaker 7: like the people I work with. I'm well respected, you know,
Speaker 7: I have good time off, like I'm off today for
Speaker 7: Labor Day.
Speaker 3: So I really like where I'm at.
Speaker 7: But I've started feeling like I've been getting too comfortable
Speaker 7: and with a lot of the t from the economy. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 7: well what would happen if I had to go back
Speaker 7: out there and interview again? Like where am I at? Like?
Speaker 7: Is the experience that I have building things good enough?
Speaker 7: So I was like, I want to learn this stuff.
Speaker 7: I don't want to do it alone because I need
Speaker 7: some motivation and I know that if I just start
Speaker 7: by myself, like it'll like I'll.
Speaker 3: Get sidetracked by things. So I went on code Mentor
Speaker 3: and look for a mentor and phone as well.
Speaker 1: Cool, So what I mean, what's the process you get
Speaker 1: into code Mentor? Yeah? I mean did you do they
Speaker 1: just match you up based on skills or no? Trying
Speaker 1: to get in and say hey this is what I want?
Speaker 3: Or yeah kind of like I mean you put all right?
Speaker 7: So I think if I remember, you just put like
Speaker 7: a basic fielder out there like with a message like hey,
Speaker 7: this is where I'm at in my career, this is
Speaker 7: what I'm looking for, you know, this is my time zone,
Speaker 7: and then within like five minutes you get inundated with
Speaker 7: like five thousand people like trying to get you to
Speaker 7: sign up with them, and obviously you know they're looking
Speaker 7: for business, they're looking to mentors, so you have a
Speaker 7: lot of stuff to filter through. So I actually found
Speaker 7: someone before juell Or around the same time, and I
Speaker 7: met with him and like he the first thing he
Speaker 7: did was like started taking me through like merch sword.
Speaker 7: I was like, whoa back out, dude, I'm looking for
Speaker 7: like long term mentorship here. We haven't been started talking
Speaker 7: about a raised yet, why are we getting in? Like
Speaker 7: it just felt like he wasn't like targeted towards me. Now,
Speaker 7: I had a message from Jewell that said, hey, let's meet.
Speaker 7: I want to find out if we can work together,
Speaker 7: and that kind of stoock out stood out to me.
Speaker 7: And plus he was Brazilian and you know, my dad
Speaker 7: had lived down there, and we just made the connection.
Speaker 3: We had like an initial meeting and from there, I
Speaker 3: think he took some.
Speaker 7: Time to figure out if we were going to work together,
Speaker 7: and then we decided to and we've been going at
Speaker 7: it since the beginning of April.
Speaker 1: Cool.
Speaker 3: So I'm lucky. I got really lucky.
Speaker 1: Right, So, Johile, when you're looking at people that you
Speaker 1: can help, right because because it's a two way street, right,
Speaker 1: So if you're looking at people you can help up,
Speaker 1: how do you decide? Okay, you know, many looks like
Speaker 1: somebody I can help versus maybe you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to pitch this person because I don't know if
Speaker 1: I've got what they need.
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 6: Yeah, sure, That's why I said to him too, that
Speaker 6: we should first meet and talk about his goals, his
Speaker 6: struggles and understand him, you know, listing activity and see
Speaker 6: if my exkulls.
Speaker 4: And uh, the way that I teach would.
Speaker 6: Help him, because I believe that from the standpoint from
Speaker 6: the meet and also from the mentor, we have to
Speaker 6: deliver an excellent service, right, And yeah, so I also
Speaker 6: interview him as a mentor.
Speaker 1: So let me back up for a minute, because you know,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this and looking at kind of the
Speaker 1: relationship and the process and a j feel free to
Speaker 1: jump in anytime you want. But what made you decide
Speaker 1: that you wanted to do this kind of mentorship? Right?
Speaker 1: How did you get into the code mentor arena?
Speaker 3: You?
Speaker 4: Me and me are many?
Speaker 3: Yeah? You?
Speaker 5: I actually I freelanced it for some ad tech startups
Speaker 5: and I always love it to help.
Speaker 6: People from you know, like from as early as I remember,
Speaker 6: I love it to help colleagues.
Speaker 4: In class and school, and it's just a personal traits.
Speaker 6: It's something that I have passion about and I enjoy
Speaker 6: doing this, so it's aligned with my values my beliefs.
Speaker 6: So when I do this, I'm happy when I'm helping someone,
Speaker 6: teaching someone and making someone progress and accomplished goals. I
Speaker 6: feel that when many accomplished goes, it's like I am
Speaker 6: also accomplished accomplishing the goals, you know, Like I celebrate
Speaker 6: with him, you know when he like his trying to
Speaker 6: learn a new pattern encoding, and I give him like
Speaker 6: an exercise, some challenge, and I see that he uh
Speaker 6: understood and started to generalize two new problems.
Speaker 4: That's an important component variable to assess learning.
Speaker 6: If you can generalize to new problems, it's not that
Speaker 6: you memorize it.
Speaker 4: It's like in AI, you know.
Speaker 6: Like I like to do this intersection when I'm explaining
Speaker 6: things because of my background and AI. You over if
Speaker 6: you are model over feet, you know, like the data
Speaker 6: he is not. He can't generalize. He can't he didn't learn,
Speaker 6: he didn't learn, And the.
Speaker 4: Same is for us. You know, if we can generalize
Speaker 4: two new problems.
Speaker 6: Then you can feel more confident that learning happened. And
Speaker 6: many we monitor. So, as we were talking before, some
Speaker 6: of the components of great mentorship, one of them is
Speaker 6: to monitor progress. So you have to have some kind
Speaker 6: of system to monitor progress. So we have a system,
Speaker 6: uh that many we and we have we require the data,
Speaker 6: so I know which exercise he found hard, easy, medium, hard,
Speaker 6: you know, and I can this way, uh set.
Speaker 4: A personalized lessons for.
Speaker 6: Him and exercise and these way he can progress in
Speaker 6: a more accelerated pace.
Speaker 1: Gotcha. And just just to give people a little bit,
Speaker 1: you mentioned like an AI overfitting data. Effectively, the idea
Speaker 1: behind overfitting, if you're not familiar with the term, is
Speaker 1: that your results too closely matched your training set to
Speaker 1: the point where if you try and run other things
Speaker 1: through it right, because you train it so that you
Speaker 1: can give stuff that it hasn't seen before and it
Speaker 1: does the right thing. If it overfits, it means it
Speaker 1: fits the training data when you look at the results
Speaker 1: on the training data, but it doesn't work well with
Speaker 1: things outside the training set. And so exactly, you know,
Speaker 1: so what what yeah, what Vitor sat talking about as
Speaker 1: he's saying, you know, we want to teach people like
Speaker 1: Manning or other people that he's mentoring concepts that they
Speaker 1: can use outside of the couple of examples or exercises
Speaker 1: that he's giving him. Yes, I state that properly.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, very well. Uh and uh. One of the
Speaker 4: great things also.
Speaker 6: That I think helps in learning for us humans is, uh,
Speaker 6: there is this word that's meta cognition. And I try
Speaker 6: to to make although uh many maybe he doesn't know
Speaker 6: uh that he's doing meta cognition, but he's doing because
Speaker 6: cognition is thinking about your own talk process. So this
Speaker 6: this also helps you get better at coing. So how
Speaker 6: how do you think? You know, reflect on how you think,
Speaker 6: how you sow thinks? What's your talk process to solve problem?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 8: Did you did you say meditation, the medic cognition?
Speaker 1: Yes, megnition, thinking about how you think exactly?
Speaker 6: Meta is uh thinking about you won't thinking exactly max yeh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's it's interesting that you bring that up to
Speaker 1: And then I'm going to ask Manny a question because
Speaker 1: I've been reading. Uh. So I I've been doing this
Speaker 1: uh mental toughness program called seventy five Hard And one
Speaker 1: of the things you have to do is read ten
Speaker 1: pages out of a book every day, and the book
Speaker 1: I've been reading is Awaken the Giant Within, And it's
Speaker 1: kind of the same idea where you he talks a
Speaker 1: lot more about like changing your state, but you do
Speaker 1: a lot of the magnet meg metacognition type things where
Speaker 1: you're saying, I'm thinking this and they need to change
Speaker 1: it to that, right, And so you're paying attention to
Speaker 1: what makes you do what you do? Manny, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: kind of curious. U. Vtors talked about a bunch of
Speaker 1: different things, like what you want to accomplish, and you know,
Speaker 1: kind of setting goals and keeping track of your progress
Speaker 1: and then kind of this metacognition. How have these things
Speaker 1: worked for you? Like which parts really stand out?
Speaker 7: So I would say that, like, the first thing that
Speaker 7: really stands out to me is the fact that we
Speaker 7: have a way to track progress. So generally, like if
Speaker 7: you know, you try to learn something on your own,
Speaker 7: there's I mean, you can hold yourself accountable, but you
Speaker 7: don't really have anyone outside yourself that can observe you
Speaker 7: and really give you like the proper feedback that you
Speaker 7: need because you're stuck inside yourself. So from from the
Speaker 7: very beginning, like we established like very I guess I
Speaker 7: kind of like agile way to think about like the
Speaker 7: work that we're doing in terms that we share progress
Speaker 7: every day and get feedback every day, and part of
Speaker 7: that is being able to share like where I get
Speaker 7: stuck in my thinking, and I think you can correct
Speaker 7: me if I'm wrong as well.
Speaker 2: But like.
Speaker 7: From the notes that I take and what I write,
Speaker 7: I think you're able to get like some of an
Speaker 7: idea of like where I get stuck and where my
Speaker 7: thought process is, and it goes beyond just like like oh,
Speaker 7: how you know, I don't understand this concept. It's more
Speaker 7: about like what am I thinking about myself and my
Speaker 7: ability to succeed throughout this.
Speaker 3: So a lot of things come down to.
Speaker 7: Like internal internal dialogue and pushing through hard things. I
Speaker 7: think I kind of went off tracking your question. I
Speaker 7: apologize about that, but it's just something that came to
Speaker 7: my mind.
Speaker 6: Yes, many I think that you're in a great point
Speaker 6: as you're talking. That's at the beginning of the show
Speaker 6: that the coding. Actually there's more about coding than only coding,
Speaker 6: you know, because we are effective emotional beings. Sometimes the
Speaker 6: problem is not so much as the coding part of
Speaker 6: the process.
Speaker 4: But uh, in beliefs.
Speaker 6: You know, sometimes you are your self talk is not good,
Speaker 6: so you say, oh, it's I can't I can't solve this,
Speaker 6: it's too hard. And it's also important for problem solving
Speaker 6: your own self talk. And uh, and you create limiting beliefs.
Speaker 6: And I think in your book, I'm not sure, but uh,
Speaker 6: probably it will touch in these topics about your own
Speaker 6: self talk. What is limiting you in in fulfilling your
Speaker 6: hole potential? Uh And this is also something that uh,
Speaker 6: I think a great meatnership should should do, is to
Speaker 6: fulfill your whole potentially because I truly believe that everybody
Speaker 6: has a potential and UH should be feeling you know,
Speaker 6: you should put the you know, like third max on that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean a lot of the stuff that I
Speaker 7: struggle with initially, you know that having the structure of
Speaker 7: the mentorship is helping me with is just like the
Speaker 7: belief that I can do it right. Like I'm you know,
Speaker 7: kind of past the point where a lot of people
Speaker 7: I think are learning new things. Like I said, I'm
Speaker 7: pretty comfortable where I'm at, Like I don't feel like
Speaker 7: an immense threat to my job, like I've been there
Speaker 7: a while, but was uncomfortable with kind of being too
Speaker 7: comfortable and going through this you know, learning like computer
Speaker 7: science and algorithms, data structures.
Speaker 3: It's not easy.
Speaker 7: Like especially it's been a long time since I was
Speaker 7: in college taking a math class, so you know, I've
Speaker 7: had a.
Speaker 3: Big thing hanging over my head for a long time
Speaker 3: that probably.
Speaker 7: Led to my avoidance and things that this basically said, yeah,
Speaker 7: you're not smart enough to do this, right. I mean,
Speaker 7: that's a that's a thought that I have, you know,
Speaker 7: that comes up in the back of my head a lot.
Speaker 7: And through the mentorship process, like I think that's been
Speaker 7: one of the main things that we've come to.
Speaker 3: I don't sit around being myself football day.
Speaker 7: But there are times when I'll get like a super
Speaker 7: hard problem and then I'll see that, you know, the
Speaker 7: answer might.
Speaker 3: Make I never would have come up with that on
Speaker 3: my own.
Speaker 7: And like we kind of discussed like that feeling of
Speaker 7: going through that, because that's a place where a lot
Speaker 7: of people, when you start to feel uncomfortable, hit those
Speaker 7: walls when people quit. And I think that that's probably
Speaker 7: the reason that most people, a lot of people don't succeed,
Speaker 7: is like when they get there and it feels bad,
Speaker 7: they think that as a sign like that they're not capable,
Speaker 7: when actually that's a sign that you're actually learning, and
Speaker 7: that's when you push through harder.
Speaker 8: So I have some some questions about this because I
Speaker 8: have the controversial opinion that not everybody can code, that
Speaker 8: it's not something that you can just work hard at
Speaker 8: and be good at. I kind of believe more in
Speaker 8: the philosophy that you could spend your whole life investing
Speaker 8: in something that you're not talented at. Invest all of
Speaker 8: your skill where you have no talent, and you'll become mediocre.
Speaker 8: But if you invest your skill where you have talent,
Speaker 8: you can become great. And so I'm of the opinion
Speaker 8: that not everybody should learn to code, because not everyone
Speaker 8: is talented in that area. But I'm I'm curious to
Speaker 8: whether or not, Like I discovered it early and I
Speaker 8: was talented in it. Like the first few programs I wrote, no,
Speaker 8: I didn't really understand it. I struggled, but I don't know.
Speaker 8: After I had probably less than one hundred hours programming,
Speaker 8: I was like, Okay, I get this, I understand what
Speaker 8: this is about. And I made a lot of poor
Speaker 8: choices because I didn't have the skill and I didn't
Speaker 8: have the wisdom, but I had a knack for it.
Speaker 8: And so I'm curious with your experience, do you feel
Speaker 8: like you're someone who has a knack for it or not?
Speaker 8: Do you feel like you're someone who is going to
Speaker 8: become great at it or not? And you know, like
Speaker 8: what are what are you? Some thoughts around around that.
Speaker 7: So it's I'm like, historically, like in my life, like
Speaker 7: pretty hard on myself, where I don't really think I
Speaker 7: can do anything.
Speaker 3: So that sort of like clouds over just about everything
Speaker 3: that I do.
Speaker 7: Right, the one thing that led me to think that
Speaker 7: I possibly could do it was the fact that when
Speaker 7: I was in college, I learned how to play jazz
Speaker 7: music and that was really hard, and yeah, it was
Speaker 7: like that it was kind of someone the programming in
Speaker 7: that like you you first have to like learn like
Speaker 7: the language, right, and then you have to start learning
Speaker 7: how to play music. And then like the best challenging
Speaker 7: part is you're taking language and you're taking music that
Speaker 7: might have like some structure, but you're being asked to
Speaker 7: create something completely new on the spot.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 7: So I've been able to sort of relate that to
Speaker 7: programming and the fact that like you have to kind
Speaker 7: of grind through like a lot of like at least
Speaker 7: for me, like the tougher things. It's getting used to
Speaker 7: the concepts and stuff. But over time, as as I
Speaker 7: start as I'm not, I wasn't struggling with the language
Speaker 7: so much and I was able to start to create things.
Speaker 7: That's when I started to have the belief that I
Speaker 7: could do it. When I was able to have somebody
Speaker 7: give me an idea and then I've never seen what
Speaker 7: they want to do. I don't have any code written
Speaker 7: about it, but I can create that idea, you know.
Speaker 7: So that helped give me the belief that I could
Speaker 7: do it. Whether I'm great or not, I don't. I
Speaker 7: let other people make that judgment. And generally it's the
Speaker 7: people who pay me money, right, That's that's how I go.
Speaker 3: And if they think I am, then that's good enough
Speaker 3: for me.
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's that's a great way to go about it,
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean, so yeah, I have fun.
Speaker 4: You know what.
Speaker 3: Here's the deal.
Speaker 7: I when I was first learning, and it was hard,
Speaker 7: Like there are obviously times.
Speaker 3: I'm like manage you know, am I really could out
Speaker 3: for this.
Speaker 7: But the one thing that I knew was that when
Speaker 7: I solved the problem, it made me feel good and
Speaker 7: I had a lot of fun and I wanted to
Speaker 7: keep doing it. So I was like, well, you know,
Speaker 7: I kind of like this, and maybe I suck, but
Speaker 7: you know whatever, you know, I'm gonna keep doing it.
Speaker 7: So and I was able to kind of, you know,
Speaker 7: launch that into do some pretty cool things, you know,
Speaker 7: after I kind of got my feet on the ground.
Speaker 8: You know, the thing that you said about music, it
Speaker 8: is astonishing to me. I noticed this connection very early on.
Speaker 8: In fact, my high school technology teacher was had his
Speaker 8: degree in music, and so many of the programmers that
Speaker 8: I meet have some sort of musical talent as well.
Speaker 8: So it's very interesting. I mean, maybe it's just because
Speaker 8: lots of people have music talent, period, but I've met
Speaker 8: more musicians that are programmers than say chefs that are
Speaker 8: programmers or you know, like it seems to be tightly correlated.
Speaker 8: And also something that I like that you're saying is
Speaker 8: that you pushed through it and you felt a sense
Speaker 8: of satisfaction and some sort of sense of fun. I
Speaker 8: see a lot of people that are the people that
Speaker 8: I believe ought to try to find something else where
Speaker 8: they have a talent that's going to give them that reward.
Speaker 8: But they want to they want to like push through
Speaker 8: just for the money. And it doesn't it doesn't look
Speaker 8: like I don't know that I've I've heard a success
Speaker 8: story from somebody who pushed through because they were determined.
Speaker 2: To make the money. Maybe, I don't know. I never have.
Speaker 7: I never have, And I think that that would be
Speaker 7: a pretty miserable life because you would wind up doing
Speaker 7: something that you hate to do every day, and that's
Speaker 7: you know, and that's challenging, right, Like, I can't see.
Speaker 7: I'm sure if people are out there like that, you
Speaker 7: could just shut their mind off and just do whatever.
Speaker 7: But for me, I have to have fun at my job,
Speaker 7: like and I have to enjoy what I'm doing and
Speaker 7: enjoy the people around doing or I'll go do something else.
Speaker 1: Well, I've I've met people that they didn't hate programming,
Speaker 1: they just didn't love it the way that I love it.
Speaker 1: And so you know, they Yeah, and so they wind
Speaker 1: up being passable programmers, right, they can they can get
Speaker 1: the stuff done, they can write decently maintainable code. But yeah,
Speaker 1: they they never become great at it. And and I
Speaker 1: think that there are different aspects to this as far
Speaker 1: as you know AJ's talking about, you know, maybe natural
Speaker 1: talent or you know, bent toward it, but I also
Speaker 1: think that's there's a certain amount of passion and and
Speaker 1: other things that go into it as well. I want
Speaker 1: to change gears just a little bit because you guys
Speaker 1: talked about some stuff that it sounds like kind of
Speaker 1: nuts bolt stuff that that I think is important to
Speaker 1: kind of understand. And I don't know if this process
Speaker 1: works for everybody, but you're talking about kind of checking
Speaker 1: in on a regular basis, like how do you keep
Speaker 1: track of what you're you know, what you're working on
Speaker 1: as far as you know, if if jo you an
Speaker 1: exercise to do, or if you're coming up with some
Speaker 1: goal for something you want to learn or do, Like
Speaker 1: what's your system for this back and forth? So it's okay,
Speaker 1: this is this is what I want. Okay, this is
Speaker 1: how we're going to get you there, and this is
Speaker 1: how I'm gonna check in on it. Do you understand
Speaker 1: what I'm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I can tell you straight up.
Speaker 7: We have a Trollo combound board that we've just created
Speaker 7: a couple of weeks ago to keep track of everything.
Speaker 7: So it's like that work kind of. I tag things,
Speaker 7: we write up, you know, kind of. I don't know
Speaker 7: if we do user stories in it, but that's how
Speaker 7: we keep track of stuff. We treat it like I said,
Speaker 7: you know, we organize it. We have we have three
Speaker 7: simple rows in it, you know, like our backlog and
Speaker 7: progress and done everything I do.
Speaker 3: I upload on whatever problem I'm working.
Speaker 7: On, and then we add notes and feedback from there,
Speaker 7: and we keep in touch, you know, every day, like
Speaker 7: communicating too.
Speaker 1: That's super important. So how do you decide? I guess
Speaker 1: then maybe you should just get an example right where
Speaker 1: it was, Hey, this is a thing that I you know,
Speaker 1: I either was told I needed to learn or this
Speaker 1: is a thing that I told him I wanted to learn.
Speaker 1: And then what's your process going all the way through
Speaker 1: it for you know, getting to the point where you
Speaker 1: feel like now I've mastered This's.
Speaker 3: A that's a good question. You want to share some
Speaker 3: of those show well, I.
Speaker 4: Think you can share it down and we will give
Speaker 4: a more technical.
Speaker 7: In terms of like what like why I'm kind of
Speaker 7: going back and learning, you know, the computer science sort
Speaker 7: of side of things. It's because I feel like it's important,
Speaker 7: you know, to become a better programmer. Like it's not
Speaker 7: something I don't want to know how to do, it's
Speaker 7: you know, so I feel like i'll you know, have
Speaker 7: some more respect for myself for doing it. But also
Speaker 7: it gives me insight into you know, designing better applications
Speaker 7: and making decisions in a better thought process. So I
Speaker 7: guess I've always known for a while that that's something
Speaker 7: that I want to do and that's important.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 7: It's not there for no reason, right. Also, it does
Speaker 7: open up more opportunities the better you can perform at things,
Speaker 7: and I think it just you know, makes you better
Speaker 7: programmer all around. How we communicate that was I mean
Speaker 7: basically guys that this is what I'm looking to do,
Speaker 7: this is what I've done, and can you help me
Speaker 7: get there? And then Joelle kind of comes up with
Speaker 7: the curriculum from you know, we're starting like the very beginning,
Speaker 7: like what's in array?
Speaker 3: You know, how is it?
Speaker 7: You know, how is it stored of memory? And stuff
Speaker 7: like that, and just going from the very beginning all
Speaker 7: the way up like through wherever we're going to be, Right, So.
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna answer the question. I'm gonna ask,
Speaker 1: So go ahead.
Speaker 6: Mhe One great way to us, says his skills is
Speaker 6: testing testing him uh.
Speaker 4: And there are many ways to to do that.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 6: I can ask him to write about the topic, and
Speaker 6: I can evaluate what he knows about that. I can
Speaker 6: give him uh much full choice questions to him and
Speaker 6: see what he gets right. I can give him like
Speaker 6: a lead code exercises to see what he knows.
Speaker 4: And so they're collect.
Speaker 6: Data from from him to know what he's strong, what
Speaker 6: he's weaker. And another important compound component uh in uh
Speaker 6: this journey is to start really mastering.
Speaker 4: The core concepts.
Speaker 6: You know, because you may say, like okay, a race,
Speaker 6: Uh this is so easy, so basic, I.
Speaker 4: Know, but they're like really tricky.
Speaker 6: You know, things about concepts that sometimes we move too
Speaker 6: fast and we just don't know, you know, and and
Speaker 6: uh in.
Speaker 4: When we are problem solving or even designing on app.
Speaker 6: And application, these things, you know, they these basic fundamental
Speaker 6: core things.
Speaker 4: They are important. You know, what kind of India structure
Speaker 4: I'm going to use to design this application?
Speaker 6: You know, there there are trade offs that you make
Speaker 6: and you need to understand that.
Speaker 3: Now. Yeah, I think the trade offs. Part of it.
Speaker 3: Being able to to start thinking that way.
Speaker 7: Is like a quality of like a more mature programmer, right,
Speaker 7: and that's sort of you know where I want to be.
Speaker 7: But going back to some of the things that I
Speaker 7: think help us learn, Like, so we do we don't
Speaker 7: just be like, okay, have you memorize this algorithm whatever,
Speaker 7: and you know the time space complexity, like well I'll
Speaker 7: write about write like every line about what each line
Speaker 7: the code does, why we would.
Speaker 3: Do it, why we might not do it.
Speaker 7: And then something else that we did was like he's like, okay,
Speaker 7: you know I was. I think I was having trouble
Speaker 7: like understanding something like pretty basic.
Speaker 3: It was like move zeros or whatever. So what right?
Speaker 7: What the exercise was was like, all right, build like
Speaker 7: a just like could visualize that app. And so I
Speaker 7: went and just built like a basic reapp that for
Speaker 7: moving zeros and going through that process like and having
Speaker 7: to enter crate that code into something with UI maybe
Speaker 7: really start to think about each step a little bit
Speaker 7: more and like sort of nail them. My thinking on
Speaker 7: different concepts. Another thing we do is we try to
Speaker 7: cluster problems together, so we're relating certain concepts or certain
Speaker 7: patterns to each other. So I guess we can just
Speaker 7: like make it easier to understand more complex problems that way.
Speaker 7: So it's not focusing in like Okay, this problem did this, this,
Speaker 7: and this. It's like, okay, we're moving something to the
Speaker 7: end of the array, we're deleting it. There's a certain
Speaker 7: there's a certain way that we can do this, right, So.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we start to see the patterns.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and.
Speaker 6: How how problems connect. This is also really important in
Speaker 6: learning and being problems solving. When we're solving a problem,
Speaker 6: it's good to try to think of similar problems you
Speaker 6: sol will before, but.
Speaker 7: This really helps and also create new problems, like create
Speaker 7: a variation of a problem with the concept, right, write
Speaker 7: your own problems.
Speaker 3: That's that's very helpful.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's so.
Speaker 1: So I want to back up and kind of go
Speaker 1: up a level here, which is kind of the question
Speaker 1: I was asking initially. So let's say Manny says, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to get better at computer science concepts, right,
Speaker 1: and then maybe you have some back and forth and
Speaker 1: you figure out exactly, you know, what areas Manny needs
Speaker 1: to learn about. So thenoile, you're just you're putting exercises
Speaker 1: and other things into this trailler board, and then maybe
Speaker 1: you have discussions about what any of that means, and
Speaker 1: then you just kind of work through it and do
Speaker 1: evaluations and things like that. All you know, back and
Speaker 1: forth either through the trailler board or whatever other means
Speaker 1: you have for communicating. I mean, is that more or
Speaker 1: less what it looks like?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so many.
Speaker 7: I mean it's I mean a lot of it's like
Speaker 7: here's some theory, here's some problems, review the theory.
Speaker 3: Do the problems, and then we'll talk about it. So
Speaker 3: it's a lot of it.
Speaker 7: It's still very self directed, I think, because that's like
Speaker 7: such an important skill as a developer, right, is being
Speaker 7: able to take something that you're not quite sure about,
Speaker 7: read about it, and be able to apply it to
Speaker 7: something new, right, And so I think we're reinforcing that
Speaker 7: skill a lot. That's just important to be able to
Speaker 7: grow as a developer. So I think that's generally how
Speaker 7: our flow is, right, and then we get together and
Speaker 7: we'll discuss the problems, and if I have an issue
Speaker 7: with something or a concept, then we'll communicate by notes
Speaker 7: on trello or things like that.
Speaker 4: So yeah, there are strategies that he's learning to learn better. Okay,
Speaker 4: so there are scientific backup to learn better.
Speaker 6: For example, Uh, there is a thing in cognity science
Speaker 6: that's forgetting curve. We when we learn something, we start
Speaker 6: to forget it, you know, hours after it, and if
Speaker 6: we don't reinforce this learning, uh, we just end up
Speaker 6: just like not learning, just with a trace of memory.
Speaker 6: And there's another component that we use is anky. I
Speaker 6: don't know if you guys know Anky.
Speaker 4: It's an app.
Speaker 3: Mhm, I don't know that one.
Speaker 6: So ANKI has an augum that tried to combat this
Speaker 6: forgetting curve.
Speaker 4: And you've put information.
Speaker 6: In there, like let's suppose his learning a pattern in coding,
Speaker 6: and then uh, ANKI shows him from time to time
Speaker 6: and there is an ugo behind the case. It's not
Speaker 6: like random or oh okay, I'm going to review tomorrow
Speaker 6: or I don't know, one week from now. No, Ankie
Speaker 6: does this for your So Aankie will show you when
Speaker 6: you need to be.
Speaker 4: Reminded of that. So this gets into your long term memory.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so you don't have to worry about so much
Speaker 7: about what you're going to study. You kind of can
Speaker 7: trust the algorithm it's like based off of the difficulty
Speaker 7: of the problem, it will show up Like say you
Speaker 7: said it was easy, right, it might show up again
Speaker 7: in seven days. If it's medium, it might show up
Speaker 7: in four. If it's hard, maybe it shows up in
Speaker 7: two days. And it's very hard, you might review it
Speaker 7: again in an hour. So by going through that, like
Speaker 7: it's algorithm that has it sort of prevents you from
Speaker 7: studying the same stuff that you're already good in and
Speaker 7: sort of tricking yourself into thinking that you're learning because
Speaker 7: you can already answer the easy stuff, and sort of
Speaker 7: forces you to deal with the harder problems that you
Speaker 7: know that you're not that you think are hard, which
Speaker 7: I think is super important not to waste time.
Speaker 1: So what was the name of that app?
Speaker 3: Again?
Speaker 4: Many A and K.
Speaker 3: I have to sure that. Yeah, it's pretty big in
Speaker 3: Brazils as you.
Speaker 1: Will last cards okay.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there are many types of cards.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you can typing so for coding is great, and
Speaker 6: there are variations of cards and ways.
Speaker 4: To to study there.
Speaker 6: So also you know, like uh inside thanking, there are
Speaker 6: more effective ways to to learn to you know, like
Speaker 6: you start to drill down on learning and there are
Speaker 6: many strategies that are very interesting. Uh and as many
Speaker 6: were saying here in Brazil, the educational system is very
Speaker 6: focused on testing. So this I think ends up making
Speaker 6: uh people you know, students and also uh of investing
Speaker 6: new ways to to learn for testing, you know, and
Speaker 6: to combint this kind of effects like uh uh forgetting foods,
Speaker 6: to forget something. And I think this also was an
Speaker 6: important component in my journey too to teach.
Speaker 1: You a j Do you have anything else you want
Speaker 1: to dive into? Because I've got more questions, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna change direction again.
Speaker 2: No right now?
Speaker 1: Okay, So so I guess the next question is and
Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, I'll just ask the question instead of,
Speaker 1: you know, giving all the caveats and background. So let's
Speaker 1: say that somebody is newish or maybe they're you know,
Speaker 1: they're feeling stuck like Manny was right, It's okay, I'm
Speaker 1: I can do my job, but I want to get better.
Speaker 1: How do you go about finding a mentor?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: I mean you use code mentor, but yeah, how do
Speaker 1: you how do you decide whether it's code mentor or
Speaker 1: something else? How do you find somebody? And how do
Speaker 1: you decide that they're a good fit for you.
Speaker 6: Okay, I will give my answer, and I think it's
Speaker 6: interesting to too many also to give his answer. I
Speaker 6: think it is kind of an open problem that needs
Speaker 6: to be solid more effectively. There are platforms like code mentor,
Speaker 6: but as many Uh said, there are people who don't
Speaker 6: actually have so much experience in mentoring or teaching, so
Speaker 6: they end up doing like giving him like a true
Speaker 6: advanced concept to learn and he was not prepared. So yeah,
Speaker 6: as I said, yeah, there is not like a reculpe,
Speaker 6: you know that.
Speaker 4: Okay, just follow these steps like an outgo that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So for me looking for someone, I I know, I
Speaker 7: was looking for a long term mentorship, someone who would
Speaker 7: be willing to like go deep with me into problems
Speaker 7: and work with me through like my struggles and not
Speaker 7: like write me off like just because like I wasn't
Speaker 7: great at something the first time we did it.
Speaker 3: So that's what I was looking for. And I was,
Speaker 3: you know, interviewing people.
Speaker 7: I was like, look, I'm paying money for this, like
Speaker 7: I'm gonna get somebody I want, right, So I you know,
Speaker 7: I think I got super lucky because Juan was the
Speaker 7: second person I worked with and the first person was
Speaker 7: just like not I could tell they didn't care about
Speaker 7: like my progress, right, they just were there to collect
Speaker 7: their money and teach me something and then whatever. Right,
Speaker 7: I mean, that's the feeling that I got, like, I
Speaker 7: don't want to work with this person. It's not worth
Speaker 7: my time or my money.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like you knew what you wanted, which
Speaker 1: I think is kind of the first step. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: so then you decided what I don't know if we
Speaker 1: got into this, but what made you decide to go
Speaker 1: to code mentor as opposed to I don't know, go
Speaker 1: into users group or.
Speaker 7: You find another because that's the only only thing that
Speaker 7: I knew, Okay, I didn't know like anywhere else to
Speaker 7: find anybody.
Speaker 1: On the other end, you know, let's say that somebody
Speaker 1: is put in a position where they're they are mentoring, right,
Speaker 1: maybe not by choice, right, So they don't go to
Speaker 1: code mentor and say, hey, make me a mentor, but
Speaker 1: they're you know, maybe they have some junior programmer at
Speaker 1: work that they need to help bring along or something
Speaker 1: like that. What recommendations do you have on the other
Speaker 1: end to be a good mentor to them?
Speaker 6: Well, first, have a structure you know, like try to
Speaker 6: develop a plan and talk to your maintee and see
Speaker 6: what he thinks. It thins to be very personalized. So
Speaker 6: also monitor the progress. Have some kind of system to
Speaker 6: to manage uh serving tea as such as a kenban
Speaker 6: board h.
Speaker 4: And give him exercises. This is really important.
Speaker 6: Have like great high quality content to give him to study,
Speaker 6: you know, like future the content two to make him
Speaker 6: be able to to learn the concepts.
Speaker 4: And have like regular feedback.
Speaker 6: Have excellent communication, you know, open, have an open communication
Speaker 6: with serving team.
Speaker 4: And basically I would say these components sounds good.
Speaker 1: I'm curious now that you've mentioned this. You know, have
Speaker 1: have content for them to go check out things like that,
Speaker 1: do you? I'm just because there's new stuff coming out
Speaker 1: all the time. Maybe it's not something that I've studied
Speaker 1: for a while. I mean I know it and I
Speaker 1: use it, but I don't you know, So are you
Speaker 1: going and finding some of this stuff on the fly, right,
Speaker 1: and then it's like okay, this this this is what
Speaker 1: I need him to be able to right, so then
Speaker 1: you evaluate it and give it out or do you
Speaker 1: have like a list of resources that you like to
Speaker 1: just send people to MM hmm.
Speaker 4: Yeah, both happens.
Speaker 6: Some of the things are created because I have been
Speaker 6: there before and I know that it's good quality.
Speaker 4: And I can share with him.
Speaker 6: But sometimes it's such a specific topic you know that
Speaker 6: I need to filter and I try to find the content,
Speaker 6: or if it's something that I can't find, I in
Speaker 6: the meeting on the lessons that we need do together,
Speaker 6: I try to teach him.
Speaker 4: One think that I also like is the when mantoring
Speaker 4: you all this.
Speaker 6: The socratic methods, you know, like asking questions when he's
Speaker 6: doing like a problem instead of like giving him the answer,
Speaker 6: asking questions for him to try to find the answer
Speaker 6: by himself.
Speaker 4: It is important also.
Speaker 7: Right, I think the most important thing, like if somebody
Speaker 7: wants to really get serious mentorship, I think you really
Speaker 7: have to first like understand that the person who's mentoring
Speaker 7: you is like giving you their time, and be respectful
Speaker 7: of that and do what they've suggested that you do
Speaker 7: and be you know, no matter how good the curriculum
Speaker 7: might be, or how many problems or how awesome Joe
Speaker 7: might be at teaching others, like, it's up.
Speaker 3: To me to get better.
Speaker 7: Right, I have to put in the work, and I
Speaker 7: have to work through difficult things and I get as
Speaker 7: much out of it as I put into it. And
Speaker 7: then that's so important if somebody's not ready to like
Speaker 7: really do that and make it like a priority in
Speaker 7: their life. Like for example, like I, you know, I
Speaker 7: get up, go to work eight five, eight to six,
Speaker 7: go to the gym after work, and get home at
Speaker 7: like seven thirty. I'm using a bed by ten. I
Speaker 7: got two and a half hours to do stuff. And
Speaker 7: you know, I can say, all right, I can sit
Speaker 7: here and fill around on my phone for two hours,
Speaker 7: or I can spend the rest of the night like
Speaker 7: doing like spending the time I can to learn. Those
Speaker 7: are some sacrifices that you have to be able to
Speaker 7: make too. Is like managing your time and putting in
Speaker 7: the effort. It's so important.
Speaker 6: Yeahs Indeed, many is almost an outlier in that he
Speaker 6: is motivated and put some lot of effort. As I said,
Speaker 6: I I have helped many people from the world, you know,
Speaker 6: and there is a spectrum of of how how the.
Speaker 4: Men tis behave and he's in great you know.
Speaker 2: Hm.
Speaker 1: So that's when that's another thing that I'm wondering about.
Speaker 1: And this is something that I'm trying to get into
Speaker 1: with JavaScript geniuses or you know, some of the other
Speaker 1: coaching programs that I have. Is the time management things
Speaker 1: like that. Do you help him with that, victor or
Speaker 1: is that something that Manny's kind of done on his own.
Speaker 7: No.
Speaker 6: I sometimes if I see that he's struggling with that,
Speaker 6: like he was spending too much time on a problem,
Speaker 6: like almost the whole week with just a problem. And
Speaker 6: then I said to him, no, we have more things
Speaker 6: to cover, and so let us set a lit of
Speaker 6: the time you spend doing a problem.
Speaker 4: Okay, uh so we said half an hour to one
Speaker 4: hour trying to to.
Speaker 6: Solve this particular problem. And if he can, he just
Speaker 6: moves to the next problem.
Speaker 4: So yes, and.
Speaker 7: Then I might come back to the next day. But
Speaker 7: also in that process, like, so this is super important
Speaker 7: I think you you know, and being able to measure
Speaker 7: like success like in a mentorship, as like someone being mentored,
Speaker 7: you have to really be willing to like the goal
Speaker 7: is like to be great, right, I mean, that's that's
Speaker 7: actually my goal, to be like one of the best
Speaker 7: in my profession.
Speaker 3: That's generally my goal in anything that I do. But
Speaker 3: like where am I at right now? Am I there.
Speaker 7: No, Like it's going to take a while, right, It's
Speaker 7: not easy. So like I say, where am I at
Speaker 7: compared to what where I was when I start? And
Speaker 7: I look back, I'm like, you know, wow, like look
Speaker 7: at what I didn't even know back then and what
Speaker 7: I can do today.
Speaker 3: And that helps keep me motivated.
Speaker 7: So it's even within solving a problem if I can't
Speaker 7: get the answer right the first time, if I can
Speaker 7: get the majority of it, like a super hard problem right,
Speaker 7: and it's just some small thing I could say, you know,
Speaker 7: three months ago, I wouldn't even know what to do
Speaker 7: with this now, I you know, So measuring like your
Speaker 7: own success like incrementally is super important to keep so
Speaker 7: you keep going, you.
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, makes sense. I think the other end of
Speaker 1: this though is and and this is something that I'm
Speaker 1: trying to encourage people to do too, is just it's like, look,
Speaker 1: you know, you have your full time job, or maybe
Speaker 1: maybe you don't, right, maybe you're between jobs, or maybe
Speaker 1: you're you know, a contractor and you have a thirty
Speaker 1: hour whatever, right, but you have your work, and so
Speaker 1: then it's you're doing this outside of work, right, You're
Speaker 1: doing this is as as an effort to become better.
Speaker 1: But yeah, your your employer isn't paying you for your
Speaker 1: the time you put in on this stuff. So my
Speaker 1: question to you, manny, is how do you manage that time? Like,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you figure out how to
Speaker 1: fit that in? And is that something that Joau helped
Speaker 1: you with as part of the mentorship or is that
Speaker 1: something that you've just always done or been good at
Speaker 1: or a pro in that way.
Speaker 7: I wouldn't say that I've necessarily always been good at it.
Speaker 7: But so when we started doing this, I really started
Speaker 7: to look at my time, right, And it's basically just saying, Okay,
Speaker 7: if I really want to do this, like what's more
Speaker 7: important to me right coming home and goofing around and
Speaker 7: watching TV or going out or like is getting better
Speaker 7: and more important?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 7: So it's really about priorities and where what I make
Speaker 7: most important right and right now the things that I
Speaker 7: make most important for the time that I have are
Speaker 7: like my physical.
Speaker 3: Health and learning. Right.
Speaker 7: So it's it's really just sort of like making that
Speaker 7: decision and say this is what I'm going to make
Speaker 7: most important in.
Speaker 3: My life and right you know, believing that success.
Speaker 6: Just saying an interesting thing that I just remember is
Speaker 6: that learning is also a great I mean for an
Speaker 6: organization making poise to learn, you know, getting opportunities to
Speaker 6: learn is a great mechanism for retention to keeping poise.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely So, So what's your trick then, Manny? I'm
Speaker 1: curious how do you decide when you're going to do
Speaker 1: this work and how do you make it fit in?
Speaker 1: Because and I don't know what your situation is. We
Speaker 1: didn't talk about this at all, you know, leading in
Speaker 1: you know, whether you're you have kids or because I
Speaker 1: wind up my wife has a job, right, I have
Speaker 1: five kids. You know, my eighteen year old doesn't have
Speaker 1: his driver's license. My seventeen year old is getting hers, right,
Speaker 1: but that means I have to drive her to and
Speaker 1: from the driver's license stuff. You know. My fifteen year
Speaker 1: old has stuff going on, and so I'm driving them around.
Speaker 1: I'm doing all this other extra stuff, right, So, so
Speaker 1: how do you and I have my own ways of
Speaker 1: doing this, But I'm curious what your solution is, right, So,
Speaker 1: given where you're at with your life, how do you
Speaker 1: make it fit with everything else that you may be doing?
Speaker 7: So fortunately I don't that's unfortunate right now, Like I
Speaker 7: don't have like any other responsibilities but to myself, so
Speaker 7: I can be selfish with my time and so part
Speaker 7: of that, like, you know, I've been divorced for a
Speaker 7: couple of years now, and I've thought about, like you know,
Speaker 7: looking for the relationships, and I've dated a little bit,
Speaker 7: but like right now, like I make that kind of
Speaker 7: that sacrifice in terms of like, Okay, I know I
Speaker 7: don't necessarily have the time for someone else, so if
Speaker 7: I'm going to get where I want to be, I
Speaker 7: sort of have to like take this time to be
Speaker 7: a little selfish in my time. And maybe doesn't sound
Speaker 7: like the best way to live, but it's something I'm
Speaker 7: doing right now, you know, because I am fortunate enough
Speaker 7: to have the time that I have, you know, after
Speaker 7: work to do it, and I could be consistent, especially
Speaker 7: on the weekends, I get a lot of stuff done.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I want to make a comment also about that
Speaker 6: I have a major, Like, uh, you know, dads and
Speaker 6: and people who have families and uh, it's of course
Speaker 6: their time is shorter.
Speaker 4: But the thing is is better to you know, space
Speaker 4: your time.
Speaker 6: You know, if you can study just a little bit
Speaker 6: every day, it's better than just grab everything in one day.
Speaker 4: So consistency and discipline it's very important.
Speaker 6: It doesn't matter if you have like a lot of
Speaker 6: stuff with family or whatever. If you can spread things
Speaker 6: and have discipline, you're into progress through.
Speaker 8: So yeah, of course, well yeah, I want to ask
Speaker 8: a question about that too, because I've I've heard the opposite,
Speaker 8: and now that's how I tend to feel, is that
Speaker 8: rather than having consistent do something every day to just
Speaker 8: binge but semi consistently, like you know, binge once a
Speaker 8: week or something like that, where you just go all in,
Speaker 8: really focus, get into get into flow, rather than just
Speaker 8: doing little bits here and there, get into flow or
Speaker 8: I'm actually working through you know, a full project or anyway.
Speaker 8: So I've heard people say that that approach, and I
Speaker 8: think it maybe it's more the ADHD community that says that,
Speaker 8: because we're terrible at consistency of any kind, Like we
Speaker 8: don't even know what day of the week it is,
Speaker 8: or time it is, or what's going on. We we
Speaker 8: have the now versus not now brain and if it's now,
Speaker 8: we're binging on it, and if it's not now, we'll
Speaker 8: do it sometime.
Speaker 2: But what are your what are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: Do you have to pushback on that?
Speaker 8: Do you think like, no, we really would be better
Speaker 8: off with the consistency and smaller chunks or what.
Speaker 6: Yes, this strategy may work for some scenarios, but it's
Speaker 6: more for short term and we're working here for long term.
Speaker 6: So you can crab and learn, but then like fifteen
Speaker 6: days later, you forgot almost all you know, like a
Speaker 6: lot of things. But when you spread things, do you
Speaker 6: because of reinforcement learning this is also a.
Speaker 4: Concept in earchici intevidence.
Speaker 6: When you reinforce something, you also reinforce your sign apses, right,
Speaker 6: and because there's actually physical learning is physical, you know,
Speaker 6: if you look at your brain.
Speaker 4: You can see that.
Speaker 6: So by it spreading out, you keep reinforcing the concepts
Speaker 6: and then you learn for long term. But if you
Speaker 6: have like some tests, you know, like and it's near
Speaker 6: and you have to learn and you have just a
Speaker 6: a short amount of time, then cramming might work.
Speaker 4: So it depends off the scenario.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I do understand that flow aspect of it.
Speaker 7: When I can spend like on Saturday, it's like my
Speaker 7: most free day, when I could spend like three or
Speaker 7: four hours like uninterrupted, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Get way more doing.
Speaker 7: I have way more progress if I could do that
Speaker 7: every single day, Like if I could binge every day,
Speaker 7: I would like But like that, I think the thing
Speaker 7: about the consistency part is is it's important to not
Speaker 7: like just because things aren't perfect, Like I can't do
Speaker 7: what I wanted every day, doesn't mean I shouldn't try
Speaker 7: to do something. And I think that's where the consistency
Speaker 7: comes in, is like working through a process and showing
Speaker 7: up even when it's not perfect, right, Like it's not
Speaker 7: the ideal situation because it never really will be because
Speaker 7: life is life. And then you know, take advantage of
Speaker 7: the times when I can do more, but never stop
Speaker 7: doing something because I can't do it exactly the way
Speaker 7: that I want.
Speaker 9: Yeah, good, Oh, yes, it was way to say.
Speaker 6: Just I'll compare yourself with others, you know, like, oh
Speaker 6: many can study like.
Speaker 4: Three hours a day. Oh I can't. Sorry what we
Speaker 4: mean to try? You know, you have to compare yourself
Speaker 4: with yourself. Your promise also important aspects.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to jump in because I think
Speaker 1: as we talk through this and I'm trying, I'm scrolling
Speaker 1: through Audible on my phone because there's a book that
Speaker 1: I read that kind of outlines the way that I
Speaker 1: approach things. And there are a few ways that I
Speaker 1: deal with this. One of them is is that I
Speaker 1: get up earlier than the rest of my family. Right,
Speaker 1: So we get up at six, We read scriptures, We
Speaker 1: get the kids dressed and ready to go to school,
Speaker 1: you know, depending on what's going on with my wife
Speaker 1: and her job. Because my wife works at the school
Speaker 1: that my two younger kids attend, and so if she
Speaker 1: had to go in at four, because she's the she's
Speaker 1: the lunch director there. So if she gets a food delivery,
Speaker 1: she doesn't take the kids. But otherwise, you know, she'll
Speaker 1: she'll take them with her if she's leaving at like
Speaker 1: five point thirty or something. Anyway, So that's kind of
Speaker 1: how the morning goes. But what I do for a
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff, and it's the same thing for
Speaker 1: working out or the other stuff that I do. Right,
Speaker 1: So I'll get up at five and go for a run,
Speaker 1: and then I'll come back and you know, I read
Speaker 1: ten pages every day. That's the seventy five hard thing.
Speaker 1: But for the rest of it, you know, so AJ's
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, sometimes it helps just to be
Speaker 1: able to you know, kind of binge into some of
Speaker 1: this stuff, and sometimes all you can get is like
Speaker 1: ten minutes to just pick up a concept. And I
Speaker 1: think both of those are effective. I think the more
Speaker 1: often and more time you put into immersing yourself in
Speaker 1: this stuff, the better off you are, because it'll help
Speaker 1: you retain it. It helps you kind of get back
Speaker 1: into the mode of learning this stuff. And anyway, the
Speaker 1: I'll find the book and I'll put a link up
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 3: But.
Speaker 1: Basically what they recommend is, oh, that's what it's called.
Speaker 1: It's called the twelve Week Gear is the book, and
Speaker 1: I didn't find it in here. It just kind of
Speaker 1: came into my head. Anyway. It's a twelve week year,
Speaker 1: and they have a system for this where you put
Speaker 1: up like a three or four hour block. You have
Speaker 1: a few of those every week that you plan in, right,
Speaker 1: and so if you have to do work, a lot
Speaker 1: of times you're planning that three or four hour block
Speaker 1: to just do work, right, but you could plan that
Speaker 1: into I need to learn this concept, I need to
Speaker 1: master this thing, and so you could put that in
Speaker 1: and it's the same idea, right, in order to be
Speaker 1: able to get real progress, sometimes you need that the
Speaker 1: other ones. That are the other things that are in
Speaker 1: there that I really like. One of them is a
Speaker 1: weekly accountability call or weekly accountability meeting. They call it
Speaker 1: a WHAM meeting. And so what you do is you
Speaker 1: commit to what you're going to do for the week
Speaker 1: every week and or WHAM call, and then you you
Speaker 1: went in the next SAM call, you report on what
Speaker 1: you said you were going to do, and then you
Speaker 1: make new commitments. And for me, it kills me off
Speaker 1: when I say, oh, I said I was going to
Speaker 1: do these three things and I only did one, and
Speaker 1: you're only given enough time to say whether or not
Speaker 1: you did it. You're not given enough time to say
Speaker 1: and it was because my kids this, and my wife this,
Speaker 1: and you know ye of this, and so I didn't
Speaker 1: do it. No, it's just no, I didn't do it.
Speaker 1: And yeah, anyway, And I think that's part of the
Speaker 1: nice thing about having a mentor or somebody to go
Speaker 1: to too, is you have that level of accountability. Well
Speaker 1: did you do it?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Okay, Well what are we going to do to make
Speaker 1: sure you're doing it right? Because yeah, otherwise it's a
Speaker 1: waste of money. Yeah, anyway, I want to I want
Speaker 1: to go into just a little bit of this other stuff.
Speaker 1: So you know, it says mentoring, friendship, and personal growth.
Speaker 1: So you know, it sounds like this started out as
Speaker 1: a mentorship relationship and it sounds like now you guys
Speaker 1: are like good friends. How does that affect things? Like,
Speaker 1: how does that change the situation?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so it changes it a lot.
Speaker 7: So, I mean, Juul and I have the unique experience
Speaker 7: of like living in two different countries but meeting and
Speaker 7: this kind of goes.
Speaker 3: To the friendship part. So back in uh, my dad.
Speaker 7: Married a Brazilian when he lived in a town called Salto,
Speaker 7: and in June he had gotten sick with some lung
Speaker 7: issues and then in July he actually passed unfortunately passed away,
Speaker 7: and yeah, it was it was a tough time.
Speaker 3: And that's actually when we were able to meet because I.
Speaker 7: Went down to Brazil for the funeral and then Joel
Speaker 7: came over to my house down there and had like
Speaker 7: coffee with me and my mom down there, and like
Speaker 7: we all kind of bonded in that way and it
Speaker 7: was great to have a friend and also be able
Speaker 7: to communicate that because I think it was pretty soon
Speaker 7: like after we started the mentor stuff that like with
Speaker 7: my dad got sick, right, and he was sick for
Speaker 7: about a month I think.
Speaker 3: And we still met and pushed through that time. And
Speaker 3: I'm really glad.
Speaker 7: That that I had someone there to keep me accountable,
Speaker 7: because that would be the time where I would be
Speaker 7: most likely to like be like I can't handle this.
Speaker 3: But actually it gave me some solace and some focus
Speaker 3: and purpose.
Speaker 7: To keep going and and even sort of think about, like,
Speaker 7: I'm doing this for my dad. In some ways, I
Speaker 7: know that he would, you know, be proud that I
Speaker 7: was taking these steps, right, So yes, I.
Speaker 4: Think both the friendship for us, it helped us our
Speaker 4: collection stronger. But you have to keep it professional, right.
Speaker 6: It's not because he's my friend that he can like slack,
Speaker 6: you know, on things and would make it his life easier.
Speaker 9: No, I'm going to actually make it even harder. And
Speaker 9: all that I like him, so I think that's an
Speaker 9: important aspect of you.
Speaker 3: There's a level of trust there too.
Speaker 7: I mean, I think we actually have pretty similar personalities
Speaker 7: and we think about things the same, so when we communicate,
Speaker 7: it's it's pretty easy. I think we both listen to
Speaker 7: each other fairly well, which makes it nice and like
Speaker 7: genuinely care about each other, so it's not just transactional.
Speaker 3: It's actually like we're in this together.
Speaker 7: Let's learn from each other, become better people, better friends.
Speaker 7: And that's like super motivating. Like I don't want to,
Speaker 7: you know, let it well down because he is my friend,
Speaker 7: you know, like there's that built in like yeah, no,
Speaker 7: I'm not going to just like disappear.
Speaker 1: So yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So as far as the personal growth thing goes, then
Speaker 1: I mean, is this because it says mentorship, mentoring and
Speaker 1: personal growth, mentoring, friendship and personal growth, we're kind of
Speaker 1: the ideas we were talking about. I think we talked
Speaker 1: a lot about the personal growth as part of the mentoring,
Speaker 1: But is there anything else to that beyond your mentorship
Speaker 1: and friendship relationship.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think one of the interesting things that we do
Speaker 6: in our mentorship for.
Speaker 4: Related to coding, is our approach to solving problems.
Speaker 6: You know. So we have like a structure that we
Speaker 6: based on Paulia. He was a famous mathematician and educator,
Speaker 6: and he had like four step procedure to solve problems,
Speaker 6: and we we frame usually when we are doing like
Speaker 6: bit code, it's kind of.
Speaker 4: Exercise.
Speaker 6: First we try to I tried to make him deeply
Speaker 6: understand the problem. Okay, so think about the input the output,
Speaker 6: about the restrictions. Uh, try to make analogies. Try to,
Speaker 6: as I said before, think of similar problems so that
Speaker 6: you truly understand. Then the next step.
Speaker 4: We need to create a plan to solve.
Speaker 6: Then you can like make like like Selo code you know,
Speaker 6: in the system. But you don't need to start like coding.
Speaker 6: Just write some comments. Okay, I have to create like
Speaker 6: I have to use a hatchmap.
Speaker 4: Then I have to do like some kind of loop.
Speaker 4: And then you and then you.
Speaker 6: After that you start coding, and then you review what
Speaker 6: you did to actually if you didn't make any flaws
Speaker 6: and and gags. And so I also think that it's
Speaker 6: some interesting for the listeners.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think doing it that way. The coding is
Speaker 7: actually the easy part. Once you kind of figure out
Speaker 7: how to solve the problem, you can write it out.
Speaker 7: It's like, okay, I just need to write the code
Speaker 7: that does this, you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and Paolia has a book. I have it here,
Speaker 6: It's how to Solve It. It's a great book.
Speaker 1: Oh nice. I'm wondering if that's on Amazon or something.
Speaker 1: Who's the author it's.
Speaker 4: Uh, George Podia. It's on Amazon.
Speaker 6: It's a very famous book and its inspired many programmers,
Speaker 6: like famous programmers like Donald Knouf.
Speaker 1: You know, right, so it's is it a programming book or.
Speaker 4: No, no, it's a problem solving book. But it was
Speaker 4: a mathematician.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, oh yeah, or by John Conway.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: John Connor was also a famous computer scientist. He created
Speaker 6: the game of Life.
Speaker 1: Game of Life. Yeah, yeah, all right, I'm going to
Speaker 1: put an Amazon affiliate link into the comments on various
Speaker 1: string platforms. But yeah, it was definitely easy to find.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, is there anything else that we want
Speaker 1: to dive into? I think this was really just fascinating
Speaker 1: to get into as far as the you know, how
Speaker 1: to find a mentor what to expect, how to work
Speaker 1: through it, how to kind of get what you want?
Speaker 1: But yeah, is there anything else that people ought to know.
Speaker 4: About maintaing problem solving general? Yeah, there are a lot
Speaker 4: of things that we could talk.
Speaker 6: The show has a time limit, right, but this is,
Speaker 6: like you said, a fascinating topic.
Speaker 4: I can keep talking about this like for many hours,
Speaker 4: and there are.
Speaker 6: A lot of intersections with AI and and how especially
Speaker 6: general TV. I you know how how large language model
Speaker 6: learns and.
Speaker 4: How human humans learn.
Speaker 6: Like we we just need a few examples to learn, right, Man,
Speaker 6: he can like if he like three exercise, then he
Speaker 6: can general generalize this to new problems. But a large
Speaker 6: language model needs to see like medium and solt examples.
Speaker 6: So AI still has this limitation over our type of learning.
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, I think it'd be interesting to come back
Speaker 7: in a year and see where we're at actually from
Speaker 7: from this point on, and.
Speaker 3: See where where the growth is what we're working on.
Speaker 7: Hopefully not the same exact stuff, but you know, well,
Speaker 7: we'll see, right, Let's see how things go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how long have you guys been working together?
Speaker 3: I think April the beginning of April. Okay, So all.
Speaker 1: Right, well, I'm meant let's go ahead and roll into
Speaker 1: the picks section of the show, and picks is just
Speaker 1: shout outs about whatever. So I'll go ahead and let
Speaker 1: AJ go first. I am kind of considering before we
Speaker 1: do this, limiting everybody to just a couple of minutes,
Speaker 1: So just kind of say what you're picking and give
Speaker 1: a really brief summary as to why. I've had a
Speaker 1: few people get back to me saying that some of
Speaker 1: the picks are long winded, and I'm gonna let Dan
Speaker 1: and Steve know that as well. But yeah, just just
Speaker 1: let people know what cool stuff's out there, and then
Speaker 1: if they want to know more, they can go check
Speaker 1: it out themselves. But anyway, AJ, what are your picks?
Speaker 8: Well, not the people that don't like my long winded raids.
Speaker 8: So Apple earbuds, the three point five millimeter earbuds are
Speaker 8: absolutely magical and I don't understand why no one else
Speaker 8: has made anything like them. It seems like it's it's
Speaker 8: it seems like a commodity product that'd be super simple.
Speaker 8: There's nothing particularly special about them, despite the fact that
Speaker 8: they call them magical. I mean, they're just they're just
Speaker 8: like the normal earbuds we had in the nineties, except
Speaker 8: with a better shape and without and not not the
Speaker 8: silicon ones that actually you have to stick in your ear,
Speaker 8: but they just fit in your ear more nicely, and
Speaker 8: they have, you know, the like the bare minimum speakers
Speaker 8: that you need for quality.
Speaker 2: I don't think that they're, you know, anything.
Speaker 8: Super special, But anyway, Apple of course no longer sells them.
Speaker 8: They moved on to the lightning connector, and now they're
Speaker 8: moving on to the USBC connector, and I'm sure they
Speaker 8: just like to get rid of them entirely, because why
Speaker 8: I sell one someone a product that costs five dollars
Speaker 8: that you sell for thirty when you can sell them
Speaker 8: a product that costs ten dollars and you sell for
Speaker 8: three hundred. But I I I'm stocking up on them,
Speaker 8: getting on eBay and I'm getting all I can because
Speaker 8: you know, eventually, after several years they break. And so
Speaker 8: I've bought probably ten pair over the years, and I'm
Speaker 8: gonna buy another ten more. I'm gonna get them all
Speaker 8: because I just I just love them. They're simple, they
Speaker 8: sound good, they fit in the ear nicely, and I
Speaker 8: don't I don't like these the wireless ones, you know,
Speaker 8: the volumes never there, the ones that have the silicone tips.
Speaker 8: It just kind of feels weird. So Apple, the old
Speaker 8: school Apple ear pods, yeah, ear pods after ear buds,
Speaker 8: ear pods. And then the other thing while I'm fanboying
Speaker 8: out on Apple is swift you. I. I wish that
Speaker 8: we had a framework like swift you I. It seems
Speaker 8: like swift you I is what react people think that
Speaker 8: they're doing. You know, like if you hear the words
Speaker 8: like if I was to listen to the conference talk
Speaker 8: with my eyes closed, it sounds like they're talking about
Speaker 8: React declarative, UI, don't worry about state updates. I've never
Speaker 8: met a React developers. It's not totally bogged down with
Speaker 8: bugs and state up updates. But swift you I and
Speaker 8: again I don't. I mean, I'm looking at a conference talk,
Speaker 8: but it's so it looks so clean, and I'm gonna
Speaker 8: GPT and me, we're gonna we're gonna build an app together.
Speaker 8: I'm gonna do it. I finally got past the Hello world.
Speaker 8: Every time I've ever opened x code, there's always some problem.
Speaker 2: Number one.
Speaker 8: It's overwhelming, with like six million menus and no clear
Speaker 8: path to like which one is the one I do
Speaker 8: to do the thing. But I'm watching some conference talks
Speaker 8: at Apple, and I find I because the way that
Speaker 8: I have GET configured with SSH keys and some other
Speaker 8: things that it like failed the initialization process.
Speaker 2: But I I fixed that.
Speaker 8: I had to add a manual path to GPG and
Speaker 8: I had to use a special option with get for
Speaker 8: the Apple keychain. But anyway, I got past that. Found
Speaker 8: out that the reason that the app doesn't build is
Speaker 8: that if you don't have an app icon specified, you
Speaker 8: don't get an error message like your app icon is wrong. Well,
Speaker 8: if you have none at all, then it works fine.
Speaker 8: But if you add an app app icon but it's
Speaker 8: there's something wrong about it, you don't get an air
Speaker 8: message like your app icon was wrong. You just get
Speaker 8: failed to build assets, don't compile. I got past that.
Speaker 8: Now I got the Hello World running, so my first
Speaker 8: iOS app.
Speaker 1: All right, end rave a good deal. I'm gonna jump
Speaker 1: in here with a couple of picks. I'm going to
Speaker 1: start out. I always do a board game pick. The
Speaker 1: pick I'm going to do this time is Biblios Biblios
Speaker 1: card game. Let me look up the board game geek
Speaker 1: Weight here real quick. But basically, what you're doing is
Speaker 1: you get five cards in front of you. You get
Speaker 1: to keep one, you get to put one into the
Speaker 1: auction pile, and then you flip the other three over
Speaker 1: and or how yeah, however many other players there are,
Speaker 1: you flip that many over and they get to pick
Speaker 1: one in turn. Essentially, what you're trying to do is
Speaker 1: you're trying and their dice, so some of the cards
Speaker 1: let you change the number on the dice. And the
Speaker 1: number on top of the dice that you win give
Speaker 1: you the points, and you're trying to get the most
Speaker 1: points at the end of the game, and so effectively,
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do is you're trying to make
Speaker 1: sure that you have more of whatever color than anyone
Speaker 1: else so that you can win the die that color die.
Speaker 1: And there are three of them that have I think
Speaker 1: eleven cards, and then there are two of them that
Speaker 1: have like twenty five cards, and so anyway, you have
Speaker 1: to have at least thirteen or at least six to
Speaker 1: guarantee that you have the most. But you know, if
Speaker 1: there's a multiplicity of people having that color cards, then
Speaker 1: you have to have as many. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: the game. Thirty minutes board game weight one point six
Speaker 1: y' eight, which means casual gamers are likely able to
Speaker 1: enjoy this game and not get bogged down in the complexity. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it was a fun game. Played it with my buddies
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, which is when I get together for that.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to pick that a couple of other
Speaker 1: things that I am getting into or enjoying. One of
Speaker 1: them is I went to the doctor and it turns
Speaker 1: out that my blood sugger's high. Again. I'm diabetic, for
Speaker 1: those who don't know. And in the past I've had
Speaker 1: to test my blood sugger by pricking my finger and
Speaker 1: then bleeding on a test strip. And this time the
Speaker 1: doctor actually prescribed me. And I'm wearing a sweatshirt otherwise
Speaker 1: i'd show you on camera. But I've got this little
Speaker 1: thing on my arm that just continuously monitors my blood sugar.
Speaker 1: It's Lee Bray three is the type. I can't remember
Speaker 1: the brand anyway, It's awesome. It's been really nice because
Speaker 1: then I can just I eat something and then I
Speaker 1: can see what it does to my blood shiger, which
Speaker 1: is cool. So I'm going to pick that. And then lastly,
Speaker 1: with my workouts, I've been using training Peaks with my
Speaker 1: garment watch. And what training Peaks does is you can
Speaker 1: put your workouts in. What I've done is you can
Speaker 1: buy training plans, and so I have a training plan
Speaker 1: in there for running, so I can go and do
Speaker 1: a marathon, and I just put a marathon data in
Speaker 1: for marathon I want to go run. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if I'm actually going to go run that marathon, just
Speaker 1: because money's been tight. I'm between contracts right now, and
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure that I want to spend the
Speaker 1: money to travel or register for the race, which is
Speaker 1: like one hundred bucks. So I might just run. There's
Speaker 1: a trail, a running trail behind my house that runs
Speaker 1: down toward the lake and then all the way up
Speaker 1: into Salt Lake, and so I might just run my
Speaker 1: own marathon. But anyway, training Peaks is terrific, and so
Speaker 1: I just put the training program in and then I
Speaker 1: just do whatever my system says to do. And I
Speaker 1: just barely added a weightlifting one. And it's all bodyweight stuff, right,
Speaker 1: because again I'm as much as I love going to
Speaker 1: the gym and as much as I hate the crowds
Speaker 1: at the gym, again, you know, I'm just cutting anything
Speaker 1: of to spend. So this is all bodyweight exercises, right.
Speaker 1: It's squats, push ups, pull ups and anyway, So the
Speaker 1: marathon planning that cost me like forty or fifty bucks
Speaker 1: several years ago, the weightlifting plan cost me twenty bucks
Speaker 1: when I bought it. And so I just plug it
Speaker 1: in and I just do whatever it says to do.
Speaker 1: And the only equipment that it requires you to have
Speaker 1: is you have to have essentially a stop watch, so
Speaker 1: you know how long because you rest thirty seconds between
Speaker 1: each set and a pull up bar, which I already have.
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's the stuff. And then go check out
Speaker 1: JavaScript geniuses dot com. Manny, what are your picks?
Speaker 7: Yeah, So for a book, one of my favorite musicians
Speaker 7: is Jocko Pastorius, any bass player, and and there's a
Speaker 7: book called The Extraordinary and Tragic like Life of Joco Pastorius.
Speaker 3: He's someone who died.
Speaker 7: I think like an eighty six, but he had like
Speaker 7: a tremendous influence on the electric bass guitar and just
Speaker 7: where like music was heading at that point. And it's
Speaker 7: just a fascinating story about like how crazy his life
Speaker 7: was and how short it was. So I recommend that
Speaker 7: book if anybody's interested in maybe not as well known
Speaker 7: musician that you're interested in knowing the life about. There
Speaker 7: is another book I've been reading called Heaven and Hell,
Speaker 7: and it's about the development of the concept of the
Speaker 7: afterlife and how it has sort of changed like throughout
Speaker 7: throughout history where it comes from, like looking out through
Speaker 7: the loads of different cultures. I kind of got into
Speaker 7: that because, you know, my dad just passed away, so
Speaker 7: I've been thinking about a lot about that, and then.
Speaker 3: I guess I recommend a video game.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's been recommended,
Speaker 7: but Balder's Gate three.
Speaker 3: I still play that. It's probably one of my favorite
Speaker 3: games of all time.
Speaker 1: Isn't that an older game?
Speaker 3: No, it's new. It came out last year.
Speaker 7: Okay, it's fantastic, so that's it cool?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 4: What are your Yeah? Okay? For productivity of cursor ide
Speaker 4: and also that yeah, it's interesting. It can h hangle
Speaker 4: multiple files.
Speaker 6: It's greats and bats of the files, and then it
Speaker 6: can search and generate code at different files.
Speaker 4: It's an interesting idea. I think it's.
Speaker 6: Fun to play with AUH for productivity. And the second
Speaker 6: one is Perplexed AI. It's also an interesting app that
Speaker 6: mixed search with generative AI. Because Generative I has this
Speaker 6: problem of obscenation right inventing things uh and perplex it
Speaker 6: tries to solve it with giving sources of the information
Speaker 6: made and for learning. I recommend ANKI. I think it's great. Also,
Speaker 6: there's a book that's called The ABCS of How We Learn.
Speaker 4: It's from a Stanford but for the general public.
Speaker 6: It's also great as twenty six scientific proven strategies to learn.
Speaker 4: What else and out and for coding bitcode.
Speaker 6: I think it's great to test yourself to make you
Speaker 6: get out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 1: And I think that's it awesome on the link code pick.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to throw it out. There are our
Speaker 1: episode from last week that we recorded. We recorded, I
Speaker 1: think it was last week May. It might have been
Speaker 1: two weeks ago, but we recorded with Elite Code meetup
Speaker 1: in New York where they talk about how how to
Speaker 1: figure out the solutions to leak code and and yeah
Speaker 1: they get together and yeah make themselves better at this stuff.
Speaker 1: So anyway, if you're looking for that, just go look
Speaker 1: an episode or two back. All right. If people want
Speaker 1: to check in with you guys or connect in some way,
Speaker 1: how did they find you online? Manny? Why don't you
Speaker 1: go first? Again?
Speaker 7: Well, you won't find me on social media because, like
Speaker 7: I withdrew from that a couple of years ago, but
Speaker 7: I still do use email, and so you can reach
Speaker 7: me at Manny.
Speaker 3: It's my first name, Imman and why dot Hagman h
Speaker 3: G M A N at gmail dot com. That's the
Speaker 3: best way to get in touch with me, the only
Speaker 3: way about usual.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can find me on code maintor or we
Speaker 4: can just search my name and also always miss dot.
Speaker 1: Very cool. Yeah, while we were talking, I signed up
Speaker 1: on code mentor so.
Speaker 2: Cool. All right, same actually you what I said? Same?
Speaker 2: Actually I was checking it out. I apparently already had
Speaker 2: an account from some.
Speaker 8: Years ago, but never never actually uh got past the
Speaker 8: welcome all right.
Speaker 2: Good deal?
Speaker 1: All right, well we'll go ahead and wrap it up
Speaker 1: here until next time, folks.
Speaker 3: Thanks out