Speaker 1: Hello everybody, you're Malcolm Back. Thank you very much for
Speaker 1: joining me. My name is Deborah Hatswell and you're listening
Speaker 1: to the BBI CA Files tonight. I'd like to share
Speaker 1: with you for missing children cases that took place in
Speaker 1: the UK and they are still officially unsolved. Using my
Speaker 1: background of duo profiling, I'd like to look at these
Speaker 1: cases and examine them and see who we think the
Speaker 1: prime suspects in the case was and maybe what happened
Speaker 1: that day or violent teaches us that humans act in
Speaker 1: their worst way in a place where they feel comfortable
Speaker 1: and at home, where they fitted, where they know their territory,
Speaker 1: like a hunting ground. It is far rarer for a
Speaker 1: stranger to take a child or an adult, and it's
Speaker 1: usually by the hand of someone they know. Serial killers
Speaker 1: are not the blubbering, simple minded troglodytes the media would
Speaker 1: lead you to believe. In fact, many of them are
Speaker 1: high functioning, organized, They know exactly what they're doing. They're
Speaker 1: very goal orientated, and they will hunt their prey, often
Speaker 1: in broad daylight, beneath the noses of unsuspecting passers by.
Speaker 1: So Lex examine the cases in detail and compare suspects
Speaker 1: and circumstances. Now, if you're of Irish heritage, you may
Speaker 1: be one of my many cousins. If you have the
Speaker 1: name Boile in your family and I'm related to Anthony
Speaker 1: Boyle who was born in County Mayor, tracing your DNA
Speaker 1: can bring up a manner of strange mysteries, and the
Speaker 1: disappearance of little Mary Boyle, who is a distant relative
Speaker 1: of mine, is one of those. Mary had lived in
Speaker 1: England for a few years when this case took place,
Speaker 1: and it was on a visit back to her grandparents'
Speaker 1: home she vanished without a trace. Mary will always be
Speaker 1: that cheeky little six year old and her case remains
Speaker 1: one of Ireland's longest missing child cases. Mary went missing
Speaker 1: from her grandmother's home in Ballyshannna and Donegal on March eighteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven. She was last seen and when she
Speaker 1: followed her uncle Jerry through the fields while he went
Speaker 1: to a neighbour's home to return a ladder, but Mary
Speaker 1: was said to have turned back for home, never to
Speaker 1: have been seen again. Jerry since died and there'd been
Speaker 1: no trace of Mary ever since.
Speaker 2: That day.
Speaker 1: Mary was dressed in trousers and knitted cardigan, and she
Speaker 1: had a long hair tied back with a ribbon. And
Speaker 1: she ran into the kitchen that mark and said, oh, Mom,
Speaker 1: forgot to kiss you, and gave her mum a big
Speaker 1: kiss and a hug. And those were the last words
Speaker 1: Mary ever spoke to her mother. Inside the farmhouse, the
Speaker 1: adults were putting the evening meal together. Mary went outside
Speaker 1: to play with her identical twin sister Anne, and her
Speaker 1: older brother Paddi and two of her cousins. Her uncle
Speaker 1: Jerry was working on the roof of the house and
Speaker 1: he decided at that point that he was going to
Speaker 1: cross the bog to return a ladder to the Carliss.
Speaker 1: He lived about four hundred yards away. Mary, who could
Speaker 1: be a bold and cheeky child, decided to tag along
Speaker 1: with him and sat out across the fields. Around quarter
Speaker 1: to four, she'd walked behind her uncle Jerry's towards the
Speaker 1: Carly's house, and when she reached a water filled patch
Speaker 1: in the bog, Jerry told her to turn back for home.
Speaker 1: He claimed she was last seen eating a packet of
Speaker 1: the Tato Crisp brand crisps and she was walking towards
Speaker 1: home returned you with grandparents farm house. She would have
Speaker 1: taken no more than three or four minutes. It was
Speaker 1: four hundred yards, so in total, with the walk there
Speaker 1: and the walk back, even being generous, there was about
Speaker 1: ten minutes there in which Mary vanished. Jerry then doesn't
Speaker 1: return to the farmhouse until four p thirty, so that's
Speaker 1: forty five minutes later. And he said that was because
Speaker 1: he was chatting.
Speaker 2: Missus.
Speaker 1: Anne Boyle was in the kitchen with the parents making
Speaker 1: a meal, and she said, I looked out the front
Speaker 1: door and the rest of the children were playing in
Speaker 1: the front garden. Mary wasn't there. My brother Jerry was there.
Speaker 1: He was fixing the stone wall in front of the house.
Speaker 1: I asked him, did he see Mayor? He didn't even
Speaker 1: react to me at all, didn't answer. I presumed he
Speaker 1: hadn't heard me. Ten minutes later, I asked, did anyone
Speaker 1: see Mary? And Jerry shot a finger side down the road.
Speaker 1: When Jerry came back to the house, he said she'd
Speaker 1: followed him earlier to the Carley's house and knit she
Speaker 1: turned back. Her mom men jumped into the car and
Speaker 1: drove the lanes, but couldn't find her. The entire lake
Speaker 1: behind her grandparents' house was drained. They never found her
Speaker 1: there and extensive searches have never found any trace of Mary.
Speaker 1: Her mum said, Mary never leaves our mind. Is something
Speaker 1: that we live with and we don't cope with it
Speaker 1: very well. In nineteen seventy seven and you never thought
Speaker 1: of anything happening to a child, I know you do now.
Speaker 1: One man came to see us. He said he was
Speaker 1: a divener a feller from Cork. He said Mary was
Speaker 1: in Scotland, so I went to Scotland. She wasn't there.
Speaker 1: Another blog said she was in a mineshaft in Belfast
Speaker 1: and that was a false lead. Just a while back
Speaker 1: a body was found at merv Our golf Club and
Speaker 1: the rumors started, but that golf club wasn't built when
Speaker 1: Mary was alive. I believe Mary was killed on the
Speaker 1: day she vanished. In fact, I think she was killed
Speaker 1: within minutes of being outside of the farmhouse. None of
Speaker 1: the clothing she wore or was wearing that day was
Speaker 1: ever found, including in Wellington boots and distinctive hair ribbons.
Speaker 1: And there was also the mention of the backet of
Speaker 1: Chris the Tato brand that she had with her when
Speaker 1: she left the garden. Now many of the guardi were
Speaker 1: diversity to search for Mary when the girl disappeared just
Speaker 1: outside of bally Shannon. Modern day investigations would have shut
Speaker 1: down that scene immediately, you know, it would have been
Speaker 1: sealed off to the public. DS Murray, who ran the case, said,
Speaker 1: that's not what happened. Unfortunately, we were looking for a
Speaker 1: missing girl, not a girl abducted by a suspected murderer
Speaker 1: with a child lost. Lots of people would have been
Speaker 1: trampling with Wellington's on that scene, so there was no
Speaker 1: clues for them to follow. Now, the area Mary went
Speaker 1: missing in its Boggs wet ground. It was spring, if
Speaker 1: you remember, it was March, so when he footprints had
Speaker 1: show for a while in the peat box, there should
Speaker 1: have been signs of where Mary had somewhere and Uncle
Speaker 1: Jerry had walked. Also, we only have his word for
Speaker 1: it that Mary turned around and Eddie back. In fact,
Speaker 1: Jerry Gallagher has given several unconvincing and inconsistent account of
Speaker 1: what happened on the day Mary went missing. He has
Speaker 1: stuck to the claim that she's simply vanished into thin air.
Speaker 1: Jerry Gallagher's failures to admit when asked that Mary had
Speaker 1: been with him is suspicious, to say the least, statements
Speaker 1: given to the Guard at the time by him and
Speaker 1: certain other family members are laid on the contradictions. Some
Speaker 1: officers who were first on the scene that day say
Speaker 1: they are in no doubt that Jerry Gallagher was responsible
Speaker 1: for Mary's disappearance. Why did he not hear Anne when
Speaker 1: she asked where Mary was, but the children in the
Speaker 1: guard had heard well enough. Why did he immediately drive
Speaker 1: off in his car when the you and christ started
Speaker 1: rather than joining the search. In fact, if you listen
Speaker 1: in between the lines, Jerry never searched for Mary alone
Speaker 1: or in any of the search parties. All the suspects
Speaker 1: had been questioned into relation of the disappearance of Mary.
Speaker 1: One of them was a chap called Brian McMahon. He
Speaker 1: is a local man. He was taken in for questioning
Speaker 1: in October of twenty fourteen in relation to Mary's disappearance,
Speaker 1: but he was released without charge the following day. McMahon
Speaker 1: later went on public record denying any involvement in the disappearance,
Speaker 1: stating that local people knew he could not have been involved.
Speaker 1: Then we have to look at the serial murder Robert
Speaker 1: Black and for all he was Scottish, he took children
Speaker 1: from all across the UK as he was a delivery
Speaker 1: driver and at the time he was working for a
Speaker 1: firm that was delivering to County Donegal, not too far
Speaker 1: from Mary's disappearance.
Speaker 2: We also have.
Speaker 1: To look at the poachers at the lake, because some
Speaker 1: people believed that Mary had stumbled upon them and they
Speaker 1: had to rush her up, so she didn't tell on them.
Speaker 1: But who would she tell. Let's be honest, a six
Speaker 1: year old girl in rural island seeing men fishing at
Speaker 1: a lake wouldn't know they were doing anything wrong. You know,
Speaker 1: she's not land management. In fact, some of the men
Speaker 1: at the lake that day did confirm that they'd see
Speaker 1: Mary and that she was walking with her uncle Jerry,
Speaker 1: but they didn't see her return. Jerry is a logical subspect,
Speaker 1: isn't it. You know, he's not known for his friendliness.
Speaker 1: Many people found him to be odd. There have been
Speaker 1: over the years several claims from other young girls that
Speaker 1: Gerry had tried to interfere with them in some way.
Speaker 1: When they left that day, it was to walk four
Speaker 1: hundred yards granted through boggy ground, you know, with small
Speaker 1: copses of trees dotted around, But he isn't in the
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. It's more of them all and setting.
Speaker 1: If Mary had a fall or damaged herself, eventually the
Speaker 1: searchers would have founder and all was fatal, they would
Speaker 1: have found a clothes they you know, they usually turn
Speaker 1: up even when the body doesn't. Many of our modern
Speaker 1: fabrics are made to withstand weather conditions for many years.
Speaker 1: And in fact she was wearing Wellington boots and as
Speaker 1: you know yourself, they don't degrade. I'm only five years
Speaker 1: younger than Mahra and in nineteen ninety seven I was
Speaker 1: my family in Cloggerhead, County Love and we would play
Speaker 1: for hours on end on the moorland, in the woods
Speaker 1: and in the streams, never thinking about danger from anyone.
Speaker 1: Marraor if you're out there last still wandering that more
Speaker 1: in peat bogs. One to your loved ones, it's time.
Speaker 1: My father's name at birth was Thomas Alan Jones, but
Speaker 1: that was not the name he was given legally. And
Speaker 1: it's a whole podcast on its own, but I now
Speaker 1: know I'm connected by DNA to the Jones family of Pennyfang,
Speaker 1: a beautiful era in the Welsh Mountains that in some
Speaker 1: places he's still the same today as it's always been.
Speaker 1: One case from the area who has never been sold
Speaker 1: and he's still a mystery to this day is the
Speaker 1: case of Tommy Jones. And just like Mary Boyle, Tommy
Speaker 1: was visiting his grandparents on the day that he disappeared.
Speaker 1: Little Tommy Jones was a minor son who went missing
Speaker 1: in the summer of nineteen hundred. His case shot the
Speaker 1: entire community, which has never had the case of a
Speaker 1: mission child in its history. William Jones, Tommy's father, was
Speaker 1: taking him to visit his grandparents, who worked on a
Speaker 1: farm close to Penny Farm, the highest speaking South Wales.
Speaker 1: So father and son set out on the Warmargas day
Speaker 1: and took the train to Brecon, arriving about six pm.
Speaker 1: From there, they had to walk four miles to reach
Speaker 1: the little farmhouse because it was deep in the valley.
Speaker 1: By about eight o'clock they'd reached the locking, which today
Speaker 1: is in ruins. It was a soldier encampment and there
Speaker 1: was a rifle range a bit further up the valley.
Speaker 1: It had been a warm walk and they only had
Speaker 1: about a quarter of a mile ago, so William stopped
Speaker 1: to buy some refreshment and to get Tommy a penny.
Speaker 1: With the biscuits he could buy things then back at
Speaker 1: the canty. By chance, within a few minutes, his dad
Speaker 1: arrived and along with Tommy's thirteen year old cousin Willie
Speaker 1: John and Willie was sent back to the farmhouse to
Speaker 1: let them know that Tommy and William were on their
Speaker 1: way and that they would be there sharply. So Willie
Speaker 1: set off and Tommy set off after him. The two
Speaker 1: boys had across two rough plank bridges, one of which
Speaker 1: was without a handrail. The failing light, the streams and
Speaker 1: trees were perhaps right into a small boy, we know,
Speaker 1: we could conjecture who grew up in a closely packed town.
Speaker 1: He may have been afraid, you know, for other reasons
Speaker 1: unknown to us. Because when the two of them had
Speaker 1: got about halfway to their destination, Tommy was said to
Speaker 1: have turned back. When asked, Willie said, Tommy started to
Speaker 1: cry and he wanted to go back to his father.
Speaker 1: So the two boys parted ways. At the bridge.
Speaker 2: Willie completed his errand he said.
Speaker 1: And then he went back to camp in about a
Speaker 1: quarter of an hour of leaving with Tommy, but Tommy
Speaker 1: never returned. People started to search, and they searched all night,
Speaker 1: and at three o'clock in the morning they had to stop,
Speaker 1: and then on daylight they started again. Police and the
Speaker 1: general public joined in, and the net spread wider, but
Speaker 1: no sign of the boy was discovered, and there was
Speaker 1: no sign of him or his clothing. Every day, search
Speaker 1: parties of police, troops, and farmers and other volunteers combed
Speaker 1: the area systematically. It seemed more probable that Tommy had
Speaker 1: fallen off one of the foot bridges into the stream,
Speaker 1: or had simply wandered straight down the valley and taken
Speaker 1: a wrong turn. Then the story took a strange turn,
Speaker 1: and missus Hamer, a gardener's wife at Castle at Dark,
Speaker 1: north of Brecon, is said to have dreamt of the
Speaker 1: very spot where Tommy was to be found. She'd spent
Speaker 1: a couple of restless days and she admired her husband
Speaker 1: to take her there, and he didn't want it. He
Speaker 1: didn't believe that they'd succeed where so many others had failed.
Speaker 1: But after consistent neither and he gave in, and later
Speaker 1: that day he was able to lay claim to the reward.
Speaker 1: As he reached the top of the ridge immediately above
Speaker 1: the lake. They were making their way towards the peaks
Speaker 1: across them open ground, when suddenly mister Hamer, who was
Speaker 1: a few yards in front of the others, started back
Speaker 1: with an explanation of horror, and there in the path
Speaker 1: lay the remains of the small boy's body. It was
Speaker 1: identified and brought down the same day. At the inquest
Speaker 1: on the Tuesday, the jury had no difficulty in bringing
Speaker 1: a verdice of death through exhaustion and exposure, but no
Speaker 1: one managed to explain how the little five year old
Speaker 1: shortened out for his age. Tired and hungry after a
Speaker 1: long day traveling, I had managed to reach the spot
Speaker 1: where his body was found. It was six hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty six meters above sea level, a climb of about
Speaker 1: four hundred meters from the locking at least two miles
Speaker 1: over difficult ground, probably in the dark. His poor father
Speaker 1: must have passed within a dozen yards of that body
Speaker 1: a few days before it was discovered, as they had
Speaker 1: searched that area then. Today the spot where Tommy's body
Speaker 1: was found is marked by an obelisk and the drawers
Speaker 1: at the inquest pub the money together, and mister Hamer
Speaker 1: gave some of the reward money so that they could
Speaker 1: build this monument to Tommy. I did notice the serendipity
Speaker 1: in these two cases. Both children are around six years
Speaker 1: old when they vanished. In fact, they were both about
Speaker 1: to be seven. They were both visiting the grandparents in
Speaker 1: a rural location, and something I find significant is that
Speaker 1: they both vanished within four hundred yards of other people
Speaker 1: in areas not busy with foot track of making crowds.
Speaker 1: To say they vanished in broad daylight is not an overstatement.
Speaker 1: Now let's look at possible suspects, and the first suspect
Speaker 1: I suppose is wille who is Tommy's older cousin. Just
Speaker 1: like Mary and Jerry, Tommy left with a family member
Speaker 1: and was gone for around ten to fifteen minutes, both
Speaker 1: saying the child had turned back around and headed back
Speaker 1: the way they came. Both children were unfamiliar to the area,
Speaker 1: so it just seemed lax of Willie not to have
Speaker 1: taken Tommy back to his father and his grandfather. Was
Speaker 1: there an argument or a spark? Did Tommy fall by
Speaker 1: accident only to be found almost seven hundred feet uphill
Speaker 1: on a rocky terrain. I don't think will he had
Speaker 1: time to harm Tommy him up hill and be back
Speaker 1: at the lock and within a short space of time,
Speaker 1: and we'd have to look at a lone stranger on
Speaker 1: the hill or the soldiers from the camp we came
Speaker 1: across the bar as they were heading back down hill.
Speaker 1: Maybe this does seem to be a possibility, as I
Speaker 1: don't believe Tommy could have made that climb alone without
Speaker 1: showing some signs of damage from the climb, you know,
Speaker 1: like scraps and scrapes on his skin or his clothing
Speaker 1: as he made his way up through the shrubs and
Speaker 1: bracken mongst, the rocks and the stones. Now made me
Speaker 1: out on this one. What about mister and missus Hamer.
Speaker 1: Did the woman who killed him pretend to have a
Speaker 1: psychic dream so that she could find the body and
Speaker 1: then claim the reward was his cheeky to one? And
Speaker 1: mister Hamer did she want it for her own child
Speaker 1: and he died in the struggle back to a cottage?
Speaker 1: How does she know Tommy was up above the lake
Speaker 1: in an area which were made sadly, like the disappearance
Speaker 1: of Mary Boyle, we may never have an answer about
Speaker 1: what happened to Tommy that day, and no doubt it
Speaker 1: is still very much held in the hearts of the
Speaker 1: people who loved him.
Speaker 2: Then and now.
Speaker 1: Tommy, if you're still out there wandering those rocky crags,
Speaker 1: it's time the head of pale home.
Speaker 2: So follow the son till you get there.
Speaker 1: No, I'm going to take us to Scotland and to
Speaker 1: another child who was visiting his grandparents one day when
Speaker 1: he went missing. And that's the case of Sandy Jardine Davidson.
Speaker 1: Sandy disappeared on the twenty third of April nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 1: when he was three years old, whilst playing in the
Speaker 1: back garden with his younger sister, Donna. The children were
Speaker 1: in the care of the grandmother who lived in the
Speaker 1: Bawtry Hill area. The children were playing with the family dog,
Speaker 1: kissing that was still even a puppy at the time.
Speaker 1: The puppy ran off and the children followed to look
Speaker 1: for it. When the dog returned home with Donna but
Speaker 1: without Sandy, the children's grandmother raised the alarm. Sandy's father said,
Speaker 1: the years have passed like minutes since my son chased
Speaker 1: the family dog down with Granny's gate almost forty years
Speaker 1: ago now and vanished. It was just a fIF A
Speaker 1: space ship came down, took him up and took him away.
Speaker 1: I think about Sandy all the time. The children went
Speaker 1: out after the dog, and only Donner and kiss he
Speaker 1: came back. Andy's nickname was Sheepskin because he had this massive, blonde,
Speaker 1: curly hair. It looked like a sheepskin rug. He was
Speaker 1: a lively wee thing. It was only a year between
Speaker 1: him and his wee sister and they always got on
Speaker 1: well together. I think about the things I've missed out
Speaker 1: on with him. I never got to take him to
Speaker 1: football or anything like that. He was named after Sandy Jardine.
Speaker 1: He was my hero. He was coming up to his
Speaker 1: fourth birthday when he vanished. My mother and father in
Speaker 1: law lived two doors down from us, and we dropped
Speaker 1: Sandy and Donner off there. They were playing in the
Speaker 1: garden with the dog and the gate was open. Somehow
Speaker 1: Sandy went out after the dog and never came back.
Speaker 1: I was working laying the road for the motorway. My
Speaker 1: brother in law came over and said he needs to
Speaker 1: come home. Sandy's gone missing. I just dropped everything and run.
Speaker 1: We were all up all night trying to find him.
Speaker 1: You never think something like this will come to your door.
Speaker 1: It was terrible. We searched for years all around Irvine.
Speaker 1: We just couldn't let it go. Over the years, various
Speaker 1: appeals have been made and numerous bits of information have
Speaker 1: been passed to the police. A neighbor working in his
Speaker 1: garden at the time told officers that he saw Sander
Speaker 1: leaving in a car with a strange man, but the
Speaker 1: boy didn't seem distressed, so he thought nothing of it.
Speaker 1: But despite other new witnesses coming forward over the years,
Speaker 1: Flinny's family had never been told anything concrete about what
Speaker 1: happened to their boy, and that's the hardest thing for
Speaker 1: them to hear. Phil said, you don't get over something
Speaker 1: like this. It's the not knowing. We have no idea what.
Speaker 2: Happened that there.
Speaker 1: He's coming back, and in some ways, after forty years,
Speaker 1: you almost give up, but at the same time you
Speaker 1: can't help.
Speaker 2: But hope.
Speaker 1: I'd give anything to see him again. If Sandy was
Speaker 1: to walk through that door, I'd be the happiest man
Speaker 1: in the world. It's a long long time ago. He's
Speaker 1: not forty four to me. He will always before now
Speaker 1: possible suspects. We have to look first at the family,
Speaker 1: and this will be a hard one for some people
Speaker 1: to digest. But we've got to question Sandy's grandmother to
Speaker 1: see what details that she could provide. Why were the
Speaker 1: children playing unattended that day? How long was it before
Speaker 1: she noticed Stanley was missing? Had there been an incident
Speaker 1: at the home that was covered up and the dog
Speaker 1: story was used to explain Sandy's disappearing us But then
Speaker 1: we'd have to ask how the grandmother could have hidden
Speaker 1: Sandy for all of these years. You know, I think
Speaker 1: we need to reinterview the neighbor who said he saw
Speaker 1: Sandy with a strange.
Speaker 2: Man getting into a car.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't be the first neighbor, a family friend who
Speaker 1: was a child and beeknownst to the parents, he had
Speaker 1: ample opportunity. He lived close to the home the children
Speaker 1: were visiting. But I'm und shure what his motives was.
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about the man, you know, whether
Speaker 1: he's known to the police.
Speaker 2: Or not at the time.
Speaker 1: In our modern age, we are aware there are children
Speaker 1: out there that can be attacked by preducers in the street,
Speaker 1: but it's very different in the seventies, and many child
Speaker 1: abductions are carried out by a neighbor. We'd have to
Speaker 1: look at a long stranger like Robert Black again, who
Speaker 1: traveled the country in his van, who happened upon the
Speaker 1: children as they played. He'd he offer to help Sandy
Speaker 1: find his dog. You know, God's son.
Speaker 2: Jump.
Speaker 1: I'll take you to wear us are. It's just up
Speaker 1: the lane and I'll bring you back where you up.
Speaker 1: Or she might get away with those some of the
Speaker 1: words Sandy heard that day. I don't know, but for me,
Speaker 1: the logical explanation would be to look at a long
Speaker 1: stranger in the area. All that neighbor they would seem
Speaker 1: to me to be the utmost suspect. And Sandy, if
Speaker 1: you're out there, it's time to go on, son. Your
Speaker 1: mum's waiting, you see, he's on one.
Speaker 2: Pop it.
Speaker 1: Let's be having you in our final mystery tonight, we
Speaker 1: have a case that should be paramount in our memories
Speaker 1: when we speak of child abduction cases in the UK.
Speaker 1: But in this case, the four kids that went missing
Speaker 1: were just working class girls who lived in the slums
Speaker 1: and streets of West Ham during a time when Jack
Speaker 1: the Rippo was in every penny newspaper and the lips
Speaker 1: of every person in London. Sadly, at that time, another
Speaker 1: man's was roaming the streets talking to young females, taking
Speaker 1: them from their homes and using them for ill gotten needs.
Speaker 1: During the eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties, four young girls
Speaker 1: disappeared the East End of London. The first to banish
Speaker 1: was Mary Seward fourteen, and she vanished while searching for
Speaker 1: a four year old by just like Sandy and Scotland.
Speaker 1: The second was Eliza Carter, twelve, who was reported to
Speaker 1: have been terrified of a man or of returning home.
Speaker 1: The blue dress that she'd been wearing was recovered from
Speaker 1: west Ham Park, although the buttons had been sliced off,
Speaker 1: but she was never seen again. The third to disappear
Speaker 1: was a friend, Clara Sutton. The fourth was Amelia Jeff's fifteen,
Speaker 1: who lived on the same street as Mary Suard. However,
Speaker 1: Amelia or Milly as she was known to a friend
Speaker 1: and family, she was found violated and strangled. All of
Speaker 1: the girls knew each other from the area. In twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: there is a book that came out called Rivals of
Speaker 1: the Ripoff and it was by Dr John Bonderson, and
Speaker 1: he puts bart with the theory that a building named
Speaker 1: Joseph Roberts was a key suspect in the murder of
Speaker 1: Amelia Jeffs, and he was also responsible for both the
Speaker 1: west Ham vanishings and another series of horrible crimes against
Speaker 1: young girls in Walthamstoff in the eighteen nineties. In Carol
Speaker 1: G's Silver Strange Secrets, she notes that the second girl
Speaker 1: to disappear, Eliza Carter, who was twelve, returned briefly before
Speaker 1: her disappearance to tell her school friends that they meaning
Speaker 1: the fairies, a kidnapped up and now forbade us to
Speaker 1: go home. Other reports noted that Eliza had been terrified
Speaker 1: of a man, or simply of returning home. Whoever it
Speaker 1: was she was terrified off. It seems she had good
Speaker 1: reason to be, because Alibral we've never seen again. However,
Speaker 1: the blue dress that she'd been wearing was recovered from
Speaker 1: west Ham Park and all of the buttons had been
Speaker 1: sliced off. It this very little information on the girls,
Speaker 1: so I've done my best to put together a timeline
Speaker 1: and as much information as possible in each case, and
Speaker 1: as I said. The first girl to go and missing
Speaker 1: in the area was Mary Seward, who disappeared on the
Speaker 1: thirteenth of April eighteen eighty one. According to an article
Speaker 1: in The tong with Herold, the neighborhood have played so
Speaker 1: Stratford and west Hamry in Essex is much disturbed by
Speaker 1: the mysterious disappearance of a young girl named Mary Seward,
Speaker 1: who lived with the parents at ninety eight West Road, Playstone.
Speaker 1: She went out that evening in search of her nephew,
Speaker 1: who would also have disappeared that evening, and could not
Speaker 1: be found. The little boy was just four years of
Speaker 1: age and the son of an elder sister who also
Speaker 1: lived in the same streets, was missed after he was
Speaker 1: playing for some time outside the house, and Mary was
Speaker 1: asked by her mother to go out and see if
Speaker 1: she could find him. She went out about six o'clock
Speaker 1: in the evening, and the last that had been seen
Speaker 1: or heard of her since is that she was knocking
Speaker 1: at various doors, asking the people if they'd seen anyone
Speaker 1: or if they'd seen her nephew, but no one saw
Speaker 1: her after that. Later on, the little boy was found
Speaker 1: and brought home by some children, but Mary never returned.
Speaker 1: Searches had been made for her by her parents, and
Speaker 1: they now greatly feared that she's been either being abducted
Speaker 1: or taken out of the country in some way. Now,
Speaker 1: despite a dedicated search by police, her family in the locals,
Speaker 1: no hint as to what calamity had befallen her would
Speaker 1: be found. By June eighteen eighty one, the parents were
Speaker 1: being forced to face the heart rendering possibility that she'd
Speaker 1: fallen victim to a gang of people traffickers who had
Speaker 1: apparently been active in the area for some time. On
Speaker 1: the ninth of June eighteen eighty one, the North Devon
Speaker 1: Journal expanded on this theory in an article that was
Speaker 1: titled the Decoying of Young Girls.
Speaker 2: Is afoot.
Speaker 1: As a result of a considerable amount of information has
Speaker 1: been obtained leading to the belief that sometime passed a
Speaker 1: systematic attempt at kidnapping young girls has been going on
Speaker 1: in that district. They can, it is said, scarcely be
Speaker 1: doubt that the girl Seward has fallen victim to the prowlers,
Speaker 1: working men holding good positions in the Victoria Docks, that
Speaker 1: for many years they have heard cases of girls, the
Speaker 1: children of men employed at the docks being met by
Speaker 1: strange men and women who had endeavored to get them
Speaker 1: away under the pretense of being able to find them
Speaker 1: good situations abroad. I think in all that flowery language
Speaker 1: is what they're saying is they know that there are
Speaker 1: men and women around those docks that were taking girls,
Speaker 1: probably promising jobs you know, you want to go in
Speaker 1: an errand for me that kind of thing, and that
Speaker 1: they would vanish and go missing for years. With regards
Speaker 1: to Mary Seward, her father states that he had received
Speaker 1: information from a woman who positively alleged that she knows
Speaker 1: a man by sight who has on various occasions visited
Speaker 1: the place for the express purpose of procuring young girls
Speaker 1: to go abroad. All this Victorian language, she further says,
Speaker 1: adds that he is associated by a woman and always
Speaker 1: seems to have plenty of money, and that he will
Speaker 1: pay a good price for the assistance or for the girls,
Speaker 1: and that he prefers obtaining girls from twelve to fifteen
Speaker 1: years age. So between the lines there what we're looking
Speaker 1: at as a man and a woman working as a
Speaker 1: team that are procuring young girls twelve to fifteen years
Speaker 1: of age. Mary's mother added that she'd received information on
Speaker 1: numerous attempts that someone had tried to entice girls away
Speaker 1: to invite them into houses, and that one of the
Speaker 1: common methods adopted is to stop a girl offer a
Speaker 1: money to take a letter to a certain house where
Speaker 1: she would be drawn in and not permitted to return.
Speaker 1: So far as the inquiry's respecting her own child had gone,
Speaker 1: information has been received that when last scene she was
Speaker 1: near some roundabouts inquiring for her little nephew, many very
Speaker 1: respected persons a further given information that their children had
Speaker 1: not only been accosted, but ran after by a man
Speaker 1: in the weeks before Easter in the roundabout area. Missus Hughes,
Speaker 1: resided near the roundabouts, stated that on the Monday evening
Speaker 1: before Easter, two days before Mary disappeared, she sent her
Speaker 1: little girl on an errand rather late, and she came
Speaker 1: in in a terrible frightened state, saying that a man
Speaker 1: had run out after her for some empty unfinished buildings,
Speaker 1: and he crossed the road and tried to lay hold
Speaker 1: of her. And remember those empty buildings, they'll become very
Speaker 1: important later on. Other similar cases were also reported in
Speaker 1: an article of the Worcester Journal dated the eleventh feb
Speaker 1: eighty two, which said the little girl named Mary Seward
Speaker 1: was last seen in the immediate Vicinitta, and it is
Speaker 1: alleged that on the night of her disappearance, the shrieks
Speaker 1: of a girl were heard near the locality. Mary Stewart,
Speaker 1: who was a height of four feet six inches, is
Speaker 1: said to be pale and thin, with dark brown hair
Speaker 1: which is waved across the forehead and curly behind. She
Speaker 1: has irregular teeth and they're very discolored. Her eyes are
Speaker 1: dark with thin eyebrows, and she has a semi circular
Speaker 1: half an inch long scar on her right cheek bone
Speaker 1: and ear. She was wearing a black cord dress that
Speaker 1: opened down the front, trimmed with braid, a black cord apron,
Speaker 1: small pink and white woolen shawl, a black straw hat,
Speaker 1: and button boots. A thirty five pounds reward would be
Speaker 1: paid for information leading to her discoverer, and from the
Speaker 1: night she disappeared to the present day, no clue whatever
Speaker 1: has been found, and there the matter would no doubt
Speaker 1: have ended if it hadn't been for the fact that
Speaker 1: within a year a second girl would go missing in
Speaker 1: the area under the same equally mysterious circumstances. On the
Speaker 1: year twenty eighth of January eighteen eighty two, another girl
Speaker 1: by the name of Eliza Carter, aged thirteen, also vanished.
Speaker 1: On Saturday. She was playing with a friend from school.
Speaker 1: As it was getting dark about five pm. Eliza Carter
Speaker 1: said to her friend that she was afraid to go home,
Speaker 1: so they walked her within fifty yards of that home.
Speaker 1: It was at the same place in April, a year
Speaker 1: earlier that Mary Seward was last seen spot near west
Speaker 1: End Park, a place near some old abandoned buildings near
Speaker 1: the roundabouts, and at the time of her abduction, Alies
Speaker 1: had been staying at her sister's house, located on the
Speaker 1: very same street that Mary lived on. When her absence
Speaker 1: was reported to the police, inquiries were made and a
Speaker 1: general search took place of all the lodging houses and
Speaker 1: empty premises in the district. On the following morning, a
Speaker 1: boy walking through the park picked up address from which
Speaker 1: all the buttons had been cut off. This had been
Speaker 1: identified as having been worn by the child at the
Speaker 1: time of her disappearance, and it is supposed by the
Speaker 1: police that it was taken off in order to hide
Speaker 1: the identity of that child. On Sunday, directions were given
Speaker 1: for dragging the pond in the park and other pools
Speaker 1: of water in the district, but although this was done
Speaker 1: very carefully, nothing was discovered. Eliza attended Canon Scott School
Speaker 1: and the police believed the same person that adducted Mary
Speaker 1: Steward had also taken Liza. As she was known, Liza
Speaker 1: had a fair complexion, her hair was brown, her eyes blue,
Speaker 1: and at the time she went missing, she was wearing
Speaker 1: a small gold earring with drops in her ears, and
Speaker 1: her navy blue dress had a speckled pattern large black buttons.
Speaker 2: She also wore a.
Speaker 1: White straw hat trimmed with a slate colored statin and
Speaker 1: blue stockings and high laced boots. The Evening Standard reported
Speaker 1: on the sixth eighty two there was an update with
Speaker 1: new information, as it appears that before playing with her
Speaker 1: school friend, she'd been missing for about seven hours. Whereabouts
Speaker 1: during that time were not known. Her parents were very
Speaker 1: poor and the child had been in the habit of
Speaker 1: sleeping at her other sister's house, who lived on West Road,
Speaker 1: and on the Saturday in question, she left her sister's
Speaker 1: house at about half past ten to go home to
Speaker 1: Church Street, whichus she was delivered in some mangoling and
Speaker 1: for people who don't know that it's it's launderer now.
Speaker 1: Eliza did drop off that mangling, but then nobody saw
Speaker 1: her till five pm when her school friend named Harol
Speaker 1: was going along port Way when she saw the girl
Speaker 1: and said to her that she'd been away all day
Speaker 1: and was timid of a man and afraid to go home.
Speaker 1: So he walked within forty yards of the house with us,
Speaker 1: and whilst on their way there, a man described as
Speaker 1: tall with a high hat came up and said to Eliza, Hello, Eliza,
Speaker 1: how was your mother? And then he passed on. Harold
Speaker 1: left Eliza at that point and returned home.
Speaker 2: Later.
Speaker 1: Her dress with the buttons CTF was found in a
Speaker 1: spot where the football match had been played on the Saturday,
Speaker 1: so they knew that it wasn't there before dark or
Speaker 1: it would have been seen by someone, so she must
Speaker 1: have been killed that evening. The paper also made reference
Speaker 1: to an assault that had taken place in west Ham
Speaker 1: Park on the twenty first of Jane eighteen eighty two.
Speaker 1: The victim was described simply as a young girl that
Speaker 1: had been enticed away by a man and detained for
Speaker 1: four hours until it was dark. The police at west
Speaker 1: Ham apprehended the man and a woman at Stratford on
Speaker 1: a charge of ing enticing children away. The man's name
Speaker 1: is Warren. He is a chemist and a druggist, trading
Speaker 1: at Victoria Dock Road. On Saturday, he went in a
Speaker 1: cab with a woman to Great Eastern Nord, Stratford and
Speaker 1: then got out, leaving the woman in the cab and
Speaker 1: walked towards Maryland Point School. He was observed by a
Speaker 1: gentleman named Harris, a contractor, trying to take a little girl,
Speaker 1: whereupon the gentleman interfered with this and stopped it. Eventually,
Speaker 1: both the man and the woman were arrested. The most
Speaker 1: high profile case among the west Ham vanishings was the
Speaker 1: murder of Amelia jets And. Emilia was a fifteen year
Speaker 1: old girl and she disappeared on January the thirty first,
Speaker 1: eighteen ninety and she was found murdered and violated in
Speaker 1: a empty house on the port Way two weeks later,
Speaker 1: on Friday the thirty first of January. Amelia had been
Speaker 1: sent out to purchase a fish supper from a shopping
Speaker 1: church road about a quarter of a mile from where
Speaker 1: a family lived, and when she failed to return, a
Speaker 1: concerned parents launched a search of their neighborhood, and by
Speaker 1: the next afternoon the police were also looking for her.
Speaker 2: A fate would.
Speaker 1: Remain unknown for almost two weeks. The houses built along
Speaker 1: the new Port Way Thoro Affair were unsold and abandoned
Speaker 1: and left empty. The caretaker, Samuel Roberts, let police Sergeant
Speaker 1: Fourth and PC Cross into the building to search for Miller,
Speaker 1: but claimed to have lost the key to number one
Speaker 1: two six. The police officers climbed in through a window
Speaker 1: and they found her partially decomposed body in a cupboard,
Speaker 1: and she'd been violated and then strangled. Millie's inquest was
Speaker 1: held at the King's Head Tavern in west Ham Lane,
Speaker 1: where Josie Roberts, a builder who had employed his elderly
Speaker 1: father Samuel as the caretaker, but certain that the girl
Speaker 1: had been murdered elsewhere, as there had been carpenters working
Speaker 1: in the empty houses. But Millie's boots were clean, indicating
Speaker 1: that she'd been let in through the front door by
Speaker 1: the killer using a key, rather than through the mud
Speaker 1: at the back, which invalidated his story. And if you remember,
Speaker 1: he was interviewed as a suspect in a number of
Speaker 1: missing girl and murders at the same time, and it
Speaker 1: was his father who was the caretaker. The coroner suspected
Speaker 1: his father had something to hide and shared police suspicions
Speaker 1: against the Roberts family. A verder of murder was returned
Speaker 1: against a person or persons unknown, and then in August
Speaker 1: of eighteen eighty two, Clara was last seen in the
Speaker 1: west Ham area of London. Clara was adopted by a
Speaker 1: woman when she was an author. She left home when
Speaker 1: she was twelve thirteen and found work at Rokeby Estate
Speaker 1: in west Ham, so basically she left aged twelve women
Speaker 1: into service. A woman contacted her adopted mother in late
Speaker 1: August and told her that Clara had found a new
Speaker 1: job in Brentwood, but her mother was un an built
Speaker 1: to contact this lady and Clara was never seen or
Speaker 1: heard from again. Prior to her disappearance, Clara was friends
Speaker 1: with Mary Seward and frequently asked for updates on her disappearance.
Speaker 1: Now there's no more information available concerning Clara, and I
Speaker 1: find this really sad. These cases are different from Mary's,
Speaker 1: Tommy's and Sandy's We have to look at the people
Speaker 1: who knew them really well possible suspects. I think I
Speaker 1: think we can rule out a family member, as each
Speaker 1: girl was away from home at the time she vanished,
Speaker 1: and each was seen by other people away from the home.
Speaker 1: I think we should look closely at family friends and
Speaker 1: community members. They would have access to the girls and
Speaker 1: could have known all four of them as they lived
Speaker 1: in the same streets that these children were taken from.
Speaker 1: It is far more likely to be a man from
Speaker 1: the local community who fitted in rather than a stranger.
Speaker 1: The girls were poor and would have happily run an
Speaker 1: errand for something offering a few coins, and there is
Speaker 1: mention of this from several witnesses. A few pennies to
Speaker 1: take a letter to the home containing the worst kind
Speaker 1: of man was often used as a ruse. You know,
Speaker 1: at first he may not have had murder in mind.
Speaker 1: Like the antlies of this world, they don't look further
Speaker 1: than the end of their fantasy when they commit crime.
Speaker 1: What you do after you've had your away with her?
Speaker 1: I'd you shut her up, I'd you stop her from
Speaker 1: telling and spilling your secrets. Or it could have been
Speaker 1: a younger man, a school friend, perhaps tempted by the
Speaker 1: girl and took her, you know, for his own and
Speaker 1: a moment of panic he took her life. But if
Speaker 1: this is so, we probably have more than one killer
Speaker 1: to look for in these missing girl cases. I mean,
Speaker 1: unless he went on to make the same mistake four times,
Speaker 1: but I don't think that's credible for me. The caretaker
Speaker 1: who didn't open the room Amelia who was founding, has
Speaker 1: to be the prime suspect, or his son Joseph, who
Speaker 1: did have a reputation in the area. Unwomen and girls
Speaker 1: stayed well clear of him. Why did the caretaker claim
Speaker 1: that he didn't have the key to that Was he
Speaker 1: lying or was it taken and used by the man
Speaker 1: who owned the property, his son. It would have been
Speaker 1: easy enough to lure the girls to the building. He
Speaker 1: could have told Mary the child she was looking for
Speaker 1: was there and maybe they should go and look for him.
Speaker 1: Clara was a timithole and would have done as she
Speaker 1: was told by a man of stature, and Eliza was
Speaker 1: known to run errands for people in the area for
Speaker 1: a few coins, as did Amelia. In the cases I
Speaker 1: have shared tonight, I have used the information I've gathered
Speaker 1: over the years in due profilely inter view techniques, and
Speaker 1: many of the common known factors when it comes to
Speaker 1: child murders. These are my own thoughts and theories as
Speaker 1: the ponder the cases allowed. The first suspect in child
Speaker 1: abduction is always living in the home of a family
Speaker 1: member or in the child's home directly. They fit in
Speaker 1: with the area. They don't stand out as weird or strange.
Speaker 1: They usually live within the central location to the crimes,
Speaker 1: and I would suggest we look at the occupants in
Speaker 1: the streets where Mary and Eliza were living. Joseph or
Speaker 1: his father, the caretaker, both lived in the same streets
Speaker 1: as the girls. Our murderer must have knowledge of the
Speaker 1: abandoned houses where Amelia was found, so I would suggest
Speaker 1: studies maybe that he was a laborer or a handyman
Speaker 1: of some kind. He may have had daughters himself at home.
Speaker 1: We were playmates of the girls, so they were known
Speaker 1: to it. But you know, we cannot rule out the
Speaker 1: important fact that the area is just north of the
Speaker 1: River Thames, which makes this setting ideal for an unknown
Speaker 1: stranger hunt in the streetsbury thrill. You know, no, you'll
Speaker 1: be off out of port in the next twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: But in conclusion, our murderer lived among his prey, exactly
Speaker 1: like any predator will do, animal or otherwise. Sadly, all
Speaker 1: of these cases are closed and there is no evidence
Speaker 1: now they could be tested or retested. The coat with
Speaker 1: the buttons cut off would have been ideal, as would
Speaker 1: any of Amelia's clothing. Tommy Jones and He's clothing when
Speaker 1: he was found might have yielded some clues which, in
Speaker 1: the age of you know, familiar genetic testing, we could
Speaker 1: probably trace a murder suspect no matter where he lived
Speaker 1: in the world. Dogs would have been placed on the
Speaker 1: scene and a huge door to door investigation would have
Speaker 1: taken place. There would be a geo fence in place
Speaker 1: for the area the children lived where they were last seen,
Speaker 1: which will tell the authorities which mobile devices were within
Speaker 1: that fence at the relevant time. I've even seen cases
Speaker 1: where door Dash and Just Eat deliveries have helped to
Speaker 1: find a missing child. My heart goes out to each
Speaker 1: and every childhood be spoken about tonight and to their
Speaker 1: families who have missed them dearly and in some cases
Speaker 1: still do. I also beseech whoever I need to to
Speaker 1: bring them some answers and some quiet to the torment
Speaker 1: and to the missing children themselves. I want you to
Speaker 1: know it's okay to go over now. I ask your
Speaker 1: ancestors to cherish and love you for eternity. Your story
Speaker 1: has been told. We recognize you, we know you're hurt
Speaker 1: and your loss and your pain, and we wish you
Speaker 1: to be free of that. He's trying to walk home,
Speaker 1: little one. I found tonight's episode quite emotional, and it
Speaker 1: is with a very heavy heart that I wish you
Speaker 1: all well and hope you will join me next week
Speaker 1: if you can. Until then, have a wonderful week, and
Speaker 1: I will see you again very soon.
Speaker 2: Good Night, everyone,