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Speaker 1: True crime Bullshit is off this week, but I wanted

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to pop in and announce my newest Trova trip. On

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June thirteenth of twenty twenty six. We are going to Iceland.

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And when I say we, I mean you, Me and

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Shana and Tooks from the research team, and Sydney Copp

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who helped identify Christopher Roof. For as long as I

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can remember, Iceland has been number one on my travel

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list and it still somehow eluded me for all these years.

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So I'm inviting you to come experience Iceland with me

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for the very first time. Will visit secret geothermal lagoons, waterfalls, geysers,

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the Continental Rift, and black sand beaches littered with icebergs.

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We'll take a private boat tour, see the glaciers, see

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puffins and hang out and rekivic. It will be I'm

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sure a life changing six days. Tickets go on sale

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at noon Eastern today, but because of pre sale, there's

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actually only a few tickets left, so reserve your spot asap.

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Check out the link in the show notes or on Instagram.

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I cannot wait to see you in Iceland.

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Speaker 2: So and I think when.

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Speaker 3: Tad was asking me about how I think he was

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like bringing so much to you, saying to someone, Hey,

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if anybody asks, I was here, but more like ahead

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of time telling maybe telling someone hypothetically you were going somewhere,

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but actually going somewhere else.

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Speaker 2: I mean, was that all right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I take trips to eastern Washington, say I

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was going to see old friends, are going to see

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the old place in eastern Washington, you know, Mgorgon. Well, no,

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not necessarily. I mean I may have gone to Eastern Washington,

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but that doesn't mean I went to see old friends.

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I don't have any old friends watching.

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Speaker 1: Hey everyone. For almost every season of True Crime Bullshit,

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there's been one episode that's been haunted, an episode that

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was a problem child that was written and then new

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information came out where the research never quite ended. Whereas

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we were writing or recording we found new information episodes

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that seemed to be ever living Well. This is one

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of those. When we started writing it, it was a

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very different episode than what it's grown to be because

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through the writing of this episode, we got more information,

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we made more connections, and some of those remain open ended.

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So for today, we're going to report on what we

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have currently, knowing that there are still irons in the fire,

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and we expect to find more answers and more connections.

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We have pending phone calls. We've reached out to individuals

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discussed in this episode, and we're hoping all of that

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will bring even more clarification to Hunter's Washington and specifically

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how Keys ended up there and what he was doing

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there all the way. Back in season two, I first

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reported on the FBI's curious interest in the small town

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in eastern Washington called Hunters, specifically on the ground interviews

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pertaining to a farmhouse on the outskirts of town. Here's

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a quick refresher. In the week following Keyes's final FBI interview,

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investigators started reaching out to various residents in Hunter's Washington.

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You may recall that Keys drove to Tammy's son James

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to see his father in Moses Lake over the weekend

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of April first, two thousand five, and just a week later,

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on April ninth, Keys purchased the Bayliner boat from James's dad. Well,

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on that first April trip, Keys told Tammy and James's

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dad that he was visiting friends in Hunter's Washington. He

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would later admit to investigators that he didn't know anyone

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in eastern Washington well. That outreach following his final interview,

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it was quite specific. The FBI were trying to find

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out who owned a particular abandoned farmhouse in Hunter's, Washington,

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specifically who owned it. In April of two thousand and five,

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they interviewed a neighbor of this particular farmhouse and a

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prior owner, and some of these interviews were conducted in person,

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meaning the FBI was actually in Hunters investigating the farmhouse.

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And while they were there investigating that farmhouse, Keys killed

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himself and other than four heavily redacted interviews included in

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the FBI files. If it never comes up again, what

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exactly did Keys tell investigators about his time in Hunters

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and why isn't it included in the available interviews or

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available FBI files. As a keen listener noted, thirty minutes

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have been edited out of the publicly available final FBI interview.

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The timestamp skips ahead almost exactly thirty minutes, and when

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the video resumes, you can hear Agent Godin say as

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she enters the interrogation room, I think we found it.

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Then the group goes on to discuss New York before

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circling back to an in depth conversation about all of

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Israel's Washington State victims. When the FBI made their way

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down to Hunter's, Washington following that final interview, they started

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asking around about a specific farmhouse. They also started asking

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around about Keys. Did anyone know him? Did anyone know Joe?

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Did anyone know Joe's son James? Did anyone know the

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Keys family? The answers to all of those questions were

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resounding no. As far as the FBI could tell, Keys

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was right. They couldn't find anyone in Hunters who knew

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who he was. But what they were able to find

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was that abandoned farmhouse, which just so happens to have

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been purchased shortly before Keyes's alleged visit that first week

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of April two thousand and five. And what do we

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know about Keys and abandoned homes for sale? Keyes had

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a history of breaking into abandoned houses with for sale signs,

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like the Essex Farmhouse, so we can surmise that Keyes

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said something something that has remained sealed that sent the

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FBI down to Hunters to look into a specific farmhouse

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that was both abandoned and for sale. When Keys was

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allegedly in town. But why won't the FBI release that information?

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I can come up with four reasons. They searched the

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property and found nothing. They searched they and found something,

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but have not been able to identify it or link

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it directly to Keys. They have specific information about the property,

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but since Keys died while they were investigating it, could

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no longer commit resources to searching the property, kind of

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like with Lake Crescent, or someone else has information or

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was involved in whatever happened at that farmhouse that weekend.

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Since my initial reporting, we haven't stopped investigating Hunters, this farmhouse,

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or any potential searches conducted there. Specifically, Jordan has devoted

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a significant amount of time to unlocking the secrets in Hunters,

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and he, with some help, has uncovered quite a bit.

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In this episode, I'll be sharing our findings thus far,

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what they might mean for the investigation, and dispelling some

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mythology surrounding the farmhouse. When Hunters, Washington first came onto

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my radar, all I had to go off of were

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those two two very redacted interviews with locals. In the

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interview with Tammy's ex husband asking if he knew anything

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about Keys's time in or in relation to Hunters, and

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he only recalled that Keyes once told him that he

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had family in Hunters and assumed that in the days

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prior to checking out the boat and picking up James,

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Keyes was likely there or in Callville. One of the

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two locals the FBI interviewed was a seven fingered man,

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who it turns out lived across the street from the

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abandoned farmhouse in question. They asked him about who owned

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the property, for how long, and what work had recently

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been done on the property. They also specified that they

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were looking for a man who had affiliations with an

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undisclosed indigenous population who either owned or had once owned

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the property. The second man they interviewed had owned the

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property prior to Keysa's suspected time there. This man has

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the same last name as Tammy and her ex husband,

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and so the FBI seemed to assume that he was

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related to them. He was not, and that's what we

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had until Jordan and an anonymous source went to work.

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According to Jordan, back in twenty twenty three, a listener

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who would like to remain anonymous reached out to him

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with some interesting information. She had made the trek out

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to Hunters to try to find out where this farmhouse

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was and see what other information about Keys's or the

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FBI's time there was available. She started where all great

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fact finding missions start, the local bar. While there she

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met a man that Wheel called j who confirmed that

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the FBI had been out to an old farmhouse on

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Springdale Hunters Road, and he knew that because he owned

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the property across the street and had actually been one

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of the two people to talk to the FBI. Yes, es,

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that's how small Hunters is. She stopped into a local

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bar on her first night in town and met one

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of two locals that the FBI had interviewed, and she

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was first able to confirm this when she looked down

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and saw that Jay only had seven fingers. Jay gave

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our source both his address and full name, and Jordan

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was then able to find a two thousand and one

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citation against him for a failure to carry a v

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endorsement on his commercial driver's license for missing digits. Jay

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also gave our source the address of the farm house

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the FBI were looking into, which took Jordan and our

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source down some very interesting and often surprising pads. Pads

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were still connecting to even more interesting and surprising characters. First,

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the two were able to confirm one of the FBI's

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primary questions, the arrival of a triple wide Moe home

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on the property. The FBI was trying to determine when

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it showed up and specifically if it was on the

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property when they believed that Keyes was most likely there

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in early April of two thousand and five, or if

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it had appeared sometimes shortly thereafter. And our team determined

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that the triple wide showed up at some point between

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July two thousand and five and July two thousand and six,

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and that the property was owned by someone we'll call Ray,

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but it remained vacant until that triple wide showed up

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after Keyes was in the area. Now, for reasons entirely unclear,

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the FBI never tracked down nor interviewed Ray. They only

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interviewed Jay, the seven fingered man who owned the property

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across the street, and a guy will call Brad, who

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owned the property before Ray owned it, before they believed

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Keyes was on it. And it's important to note that

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while Brad owned that property, he never actually lived on it.

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After doing some digging, Jordan and our source were able

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to snag the property records for this house, along with

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its surrounding areas. Ray bought the house from Brad in

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November two thousand and four, just six months before Keyes

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is believed to have been on the property, but Ray

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didn't register it as his mailing address until after July

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two thousand and five, around the same time the triple

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wide showed up, and there's no information linking anyone to

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living on that property for the entirety of Brad's ownership

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and then until around July two thousand and five, meaning

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it was in fact very likely vacant when Keyes was there.

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The property is quite unique because it borders Bureau of

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Land Management property, which is federal and appears to border

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part of the Spokane Reservation, so it sits between in federal,

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county and city jurisdictions. Hunters, Washington itself has the Roosevelt

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Lake National Recreation Area to the north federal land, the

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Calville Reservation to the west federal and Indigenous land, and

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the Spokane Reservation to the east, in addition to state, county,

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and city jurisdictions. The town of three hundred and six

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people sits along the Columbia River and is known primarily

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for camping, and it turns out our team were able

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to connect Keys to not only Hunters, but loosely to

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this particular farmhouse. Much like all things with Keys, the

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information he gives around eastern Washington and Hunters are highly

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predicated on semantics. At the time of his final interview,

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he said that he did not know anyone nor have

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any family in Hunters, which is true as far as

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we can tell. But he did have family and new

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people in Hunters at some point prior. In nineteen ninety four,

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Keys's oldest sister married a man from Hunter's, Washington, and

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the pair briefly lived there, but that's not where the

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connections end at all. In two thousand and five, Keys's

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sister's brother in law, who we'll call Dean, inherited property

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about a mile and a half from the Hunter's farmhouse,

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and Dean's son, according to Facebook, is friends with Heidi Keys. Additionally,

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Dean is friends with Ray, the guy who owned the

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vacant property when Keys was believed to have been there.

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So there are at minimum acquaintance, ships or entanglements between

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the Keys extended family and the owners of this farmhouse.

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Another odd coincidence we're looking into is that Ray and

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na Heidi and John Jeffrey Keys all lived in Torrance,

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California at around the same time, and Torrance experienced a

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bit of an exodus for Calville, Washington when Christian identity

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minister Pete Peters was doing road shows in southern California.

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More on Pete in a minute. What's intriguing about this,

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apart from the fact that the FBI doesn't seem to

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have ever made these connections, is that it's not the

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first time we've seen Keys operating in areas his extended

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family is associated with. In fact, we've begun to notice

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a pattern.

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Speaker 5: What what timeframe are we talking about?

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Speaker 4: Uh was the same day as the bank rover go

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Fidler's seen.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, sounds right.

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Speaker 4: And it was south of Alto. There was a house

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that I found that was like south out of there. Yeah,

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there was.

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Speaker 5: A house that wasn't I think it's in that m

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It's hard to say, Uh, I remember it. Yeah, I

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was looking at uh banks in that town and I

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found a house south Uh been southwest of town that

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there wasn't anybody in. So I I broke.

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Speaker 4: Into it and uh took some stuff and then found

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some gasoline there, so just decided to burn it.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't an abandoned house, and it wasn't no

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I lived in house.

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't know. It looked like nobody had been

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there for a couple of weeks. But it was a mess.

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There was like it was like a horridor house. Uh maybe, yeah,

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it wasn't. Probably the easiest way to find it is

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gonna be to do uh a search for that fire Alto, Texas.

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It's probably been the only one there. Since it's not

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a very big town. They probably will have the address.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Wait, so explain to us how you found this house.

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Speaker 4: Well, I was looking at banks and Alto.

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Speaker 5: And what do you mean when you're sere looking at backs?

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Speaker 1: You probably recall this interview where Key seems to misidentify Aledo,

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Texas as Alto, Texas. It's something I hear from listeners

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about all the time, because there is actually a town

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in Texas called Alto. Alto, Texas is just thirty miles

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north of Wells, where Heidi and most of her daughters

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live now, and it's about forty minutes from Mount Enterprise,

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where Jimmy Tidwell lived. Keys would have at minimum driven

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through Alto numerous times times while in Texas. It's about

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halfway between Lufkin and Jacksonville on Highway sixty nine. For

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a while, we thought nothing of this interview clip. Keyes

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was likely just misremembering the town's name, except that several

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years ago we discovered that Keyes's brother in law's family

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owned and operated a lumberyard in Alto, Texas, which is

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again just a forty minute drive from where Jimmy Tidwell's

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truck was found abandoned on the side of the road.

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To me, if Keyes had merely just been driving through Alto,

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it seems he would remember the name of the town

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that he I don't know robbed a bank in more

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than he would remember the name of a tiny town

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that he passed through a few times, unless, of course,

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he did something else in Alto, Texas. Now, this same

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brother in law's family who owned and operated that lumberyard

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also owned a property Tupper Lake. So that is three

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different times and places where Keyes did commit crimes or

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is believed to have committed crimes in the immediate vicinity

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of vacant properties owned by his in laws or friends

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of them. Circling back to Hunters One big question still remains,

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how did the FBI land there in the first place.

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We know that cell phone pings placed Keys in Ellensburg,

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Washington during that weekend in April, and you may recall

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Keyes asked specifically which jurisdiction Ellensburg was in when trying

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to determine which Washington State jurisdictions would need to be

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involved in his various murder investigations. Additionally, ted Halla believes

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the male female couple were likely abducted around this time

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and killed near Ellensburg, although it's worth noting that there's

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nothing concrete that I have that proves that the male

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female couple and the Ellensburg victim are one and the same,

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but it does stand a reason that this was one

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of the best opportunities for Keys to commit a crime

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in eastern Washington. And in his interview, he stated that

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the male female couple were before he bought the Bayliner,

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and I can't help but wonder if this is another

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moment where semantics are important. Maybe he literally meant right

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before he bought the Bayliner while he was there alone

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for several days. And again we don't know what Keyes

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said or the FBI found that led them to a

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specific house in Hunter's Washington. But there is one other

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odd coincidence. April second, two thousand and five, the day

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the FBI believes Keys committed this double murder, was Keys's

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childhood girlfriend and fiancee, Annie's first wedding anniversary. And it's

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worth noting that Annie's family has also been entangled with

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the Christian identity movement. Pete Peters presided over her mother's

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wedding in two thousand and one. So if there's one

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solid connection between the Keys family, Annie's family, Ray, and

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Keys's in laws and Hunters, it's Pete Peters and the

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Christian Identity movement. Now, this is where I'd planned to

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discuss potential missing couples that could be linked to Keys

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in general and specifically in this timeframe. But while I

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thought the Hunter storyline was as close to complete as

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it could get when we started writing this episode, throughout

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writing it and even recording it, even as I record

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it now our research app is digging over and over

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and over again with new information about Hunters and people

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connected to this property, and so we're talking to people,

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We're doing more digging. We're interviewing people who were involved

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in the Christian identity of movement, people who knew the

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Keys family, and we seem to be getting a better

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understanding of how Keys's childhood more definitively plays into the

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crimes he committed. So for now, we're pressing pause and

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we'll be back next week with more on Hunter's Washington