Speaker 1: Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Speaker 1: Barbary Lane. Welcome to another special episode a Full Circle
Speaker 1: the Podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr. And
Speaker 1: I am so excited to be sitting with our guest today.
Speaker 1: Besides being a friend of the pod, he is a
Speaker 1: friend in real life. He is a ridiculously talented choreographer
Speaker 1: and art maker and educator and scholar and all around
Speaker 1: bad bitch. Tommy Wyheed Evans is in the house.
Speaker 2: Hello, sir, Hello, I need to say that one.
Speaker 1: It will always be. I am fabulous. How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm fab to thank you for those beautiful words. You know.
Speaker 2: We're just out here trying to live life to the fullest,
Speaker 2: make some art, and eat some chicken.
Speaker 1: Hey, what more can you ask for besides a check
Speaker 1: for a million dollars?
Speaker 2: I would love that, Actually I really would, because I'm
Speaker 2: trying to go on vacation this summer.
Speaker 1: Right What was what was that? That means? I'm not
Speaker 1: saying money can buy happiness. I'm just saying all my
Speaker 1: problems could be solved by three hundred thousand dollars right now?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, So.
Speaker 1: You are like straight up one of my favorite choreographers.
Speaker 2: I just want to pause and say insert no, really,
Speaker 2: because you know, as this particular mind getting ready for
Speaker 2: the mission that I'm sure we're going to talk about
Speaker 2: with Martha Graham, there has been three writers and now
Speaker 2: you who have begun the conversation in that regard. And
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not originally from Philadelphia. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: from Los Angeles and I moved here in two thousand
Speaker 2: and two, and I don't know, I just feel like Philly
Speaker 2: is just my home. It's just it's my peoples. And
Speaker 2: the fact that all you all have just like supported
Speaker 2: me in such a way and have like lifted me
Speaker 2: and my work and what I'm doing up, it just
Speaker 2: really means a lot. So you say something like that,
Speaker 2: just really like that just me. It's just true.
Speaker 1: Like I was trying to think this morning, when did
Speaker 1: we meet me? And the earliest time that I can
Speaker 1: remember encountering you, So this might not be when we met.
Speaker 1: This is the earliest time I can remember is think
Speaker 1: back in the back back it was Brian Mangenie's Ballet
Speaker 1: Boys showcase. Do you remember this at the performance garage?
Speaker 1: This is like one point zero performance garage. They didn't
Speaker 1: have the renovation. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, it
Speaker 1: was a mixed build.
Speaker 2: My wonderful picture came from him that I used forever
Speaker 2: and I can't use no more because my body don't
Speaker 2: look like that.
Speaker 1: It's like I could use a I but then I'd
Speaker 1: be lying.
Speaker 2: But it's one of my favorite pictures. Yes, one of
Speaker 2: my favorite pictures, one of my favorite pictures.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're going to say that you are the best
Speaker 1: thing that came out of that because at the time
Speaker 1: I had a solo in that show and it was
Speaker 1: set on my ex and well, I mean the piece
Speaker 1: was fiers.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, but I.
Speaker 1: Think that also, yeah, that might have been. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: would have been when I was introduced to your work.
Speaker 1: And I just remember, first of all, it was all
Speaker 1: black men, which was beautiful and just your movement style.
Speaker 1: It was highly technical and athletic, but there were also
Speaker 1: these subtle touches and those are the things just made
Speaker 1: me go, m like the thing that sticks out to
Speaker 1: me because I remember telling people about it, there was
Speaker 1: this join Tony Tony Rhoades did it, I remember very
Speaker 1: very clearly, and he like, uh, he did this combination
Speaker 1: onto the stage and then he like he slowly reached
Speaker 1: up to the sky and then just released with this sigh,
Speaker 1: and that took me out.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like those are the things that get made.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, it's humanity. You know. We want we want.
Speaker 2: I know for me and my work, I want people
Speaker 2: to have an experience, to see themselves, but to ultimately
Speaker 2: feel something. And I think that deeply comes from my
Speaker 2: background in church. You know that Black Church of God
Speaker 2: in Christ, Pentecostal church, not not not the one that's polite,
Speaker 2: but the one that gets a little dirty and messy
Speaker 2: and little guttural not mess dirty, but your guttural. Because
Speaker 2: I find that, like you know, and we experience that
Speaker 2: a lot of times, like with singers period, just some
Speaker 2: good pay La Belle, Fantasia, Jazz and Sullivan, Like sometimes
Speaker 2: they're not even saying anything right, but you are, you
Speaker 2: are understanding, you are connecting, you are feeling they are
Speaker 2: saying and doing something that you are relating to in
Speaker 2: your body in that moment. And I like that with dance,
Speaker 2: like the fact that sometimes one of my favorite dancers
Speaker 2: is Renee Robinson who was in Alvin Ailey and Renee
Speaker 2: can just simply walk across the stage in the back
Speaker 2: and something so captivating you know, drew you in to
Speaker 2: watch her. But something about that was reflective to you.
Speaker 2: I can't describe it. Something you felt it in your body.
Speaker 2: You understood it. So I adore that you felt that moment,
Speaker 2: because that's exactly what I try to do with choreography.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not just about showcasing this dancer's talent
Speaker 2: in a way that you, as an audience member can say,
Speaker 2: I can never do that, but it's that you feel
Speaker 2: that it really relates to you and in your life
Speaker 2: and in your relationships and your walk, like something is
Speaker 2: there for you.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's subtlety. I'm the right audience member for that, because,
Speaker 1: like I notice, when I go see things, the things
Speaker 1: that make me go yes as opposed to the things
Speaker 1: that make other people go yes. Because I remember it
Speaker 1: was the IABD Gala. Oh god, this would have been
Speaker 1: two This would have had to have been two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine.
Speaker 2: In Philly.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, okay, okay, that makes sense. Okay. And I'm
Speaker 1: up in the balcony and you know, there's like some
Speaker 1: young dancers to my left, and you know, all the
Speaker 1: fears twirl leg leg things and they're going yes. And
Speaker 1: I remember it was Camille Brown and she was doing
Speaker 1: this solo and like she hit this fears come Nation.
Speaker 1: But what got me was like she rolled to the
Speaker 1: floor and then came to a dead stop, look at
Speaker 1: the audience and like flicked her brown. That is what
Speaker 1: made me go yes. That's the kind of thing that
Speaker 1: sends me yes.
Speaker 2: Yes. I love when I talk when I'm in rehearsals
Speaker 2: or in process, not rehearsal, in process. I share with
Speaker 2: dances i'm working with. I'm more so interested with the
Speaker 2: in between than the big things, the jets a, the
Speaker 2: period with the Arabas to tell that's the big things, Great,
Speaker 2: you're going to do that. I'm interested in you investigating
Speaker 2: and nurturing and finding nuance in the in between because
Speaker 2: that's what we see and what we feel when you
Speaker 2: grab that partner's hand or touched their shoulder or caress
Speaker 2: their face. That's humanity. Everyone sees a situation that they've
Speaker 2: been in, whether it's love or hate. You know, I
Speaker 2: in my most recent piece I did on Philadeenka, I
Speaker 2: think last year twenty twenty five spring, Yes, promise me
Speaker 2: you won't call. At the end, there's this duet and
Speaker 2: the male identifying dancer of the duet just simply as
Speaker 2: she's reaching for him, he just ducks under her arms
Speaker 2: and walks away, and she's there, like, you know, left
Speaker 2: alone in the whole audience for the entire weekend Friday, Saturday,
Speaker 2: and Sunday all just gass. It was like it was
Speaker 2: a moment that they felt, but it was also a
Speaker 2: moment that they probably went through.
Speaker 1: And we're not getting that clean catharsis and resolution that
Speaker 1: you felt like you were going to get.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's inside of the she did an
Speaker 2: arabas he did a time dude, right, so amazed. But
Speaker 2: it's like when you're able to create that juxtaposition in choreography,
Speaker 2: that's you know what Camille did in that solo. It's
Speaker 2: just a position like the kids are sitting there looking
Speaker 2: at how she's swirling up, but then you're sitting there
Speaker 2: looking at her subtlety, and it's like you're getting this. Now,
Speaker 2: you're getting this, which I believe happens in Black Densha.
Speaker 2: You're getting this well rounded experience that transcends paths. You know,
Speaker 2: it goes somewhere else. It just that's how that's the
Speaker 2: ability that we have in our blackness with our art.
Speaker 2: We're able when we listen to Aretha Franklin, Yeah, she's
Speaker 2: she's hitting C sharps and modulations and bending notes and
Speaker 2: doing all the things that we study. But then she's moaning,
Speaker 2: and then you're just feeling emotions and you're connecting to
Speaker 2: soul and depth. And I love that about black people
Speaker 2: that we are able to do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's like, you know, the the high leg,
Speaker 1: the multiple turns, that's the vocabulary, but it's like are
Speaker 1: you saying something? Are you just speaking words? That's what
Speaker 1: it comes down to, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And Yeah, I dance for many years with Jomies Brown
Speaker 2: and she will always say that what are you trying
Speaker 2: to say? And Miss Debaschase six, the former rest director
Speaker 2: who's now with the Ancestors, will always say that, but
Speaker 2: what are you trying to say? Right? Tell a story? Yes,
Speaker 2: I totally agree with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because like you know, after a while, you know,
Speaker 1: you can only kick your face, but so many times
Speaker 1: before it stops being exciting unless you got something behind it.
Speaker 2: Yes, and you know something I want Younger dances to
Speaker 2: also know so that you know, as I say this
Speaker 2: next thing, because I used to be able to kick
Speaker 2: my face and do the things. It is also but
Speaker 2: you just get to age, you don't even want to
Speaker 2: do that all the time, or you don't want to
Speaker 2: always have to just like okay, yes, and I will
Speaker 2: always say you hit an age and dance, especially when
Speaker 2: you're in a company where okay, there's a couple of
Speaker 2: things that happen. You get into a company, you just
Speaker 2: want to get cast it, you want to get out there,
Speaker 2: and you're particularly younger. Then you get into your later
Speaker 2: twenties where like, okay, now it's all coming together. You're
Speaker 2: understanding your body, You're you have this experience under your belt,
Speaker 2: you be starting to be regarded, you're dependable. It's the boom.
Speaker 2: You're out there even more. Then comes those early thirties,
Speaker 2: and this is where it gets interesting because one it
Speaker 2: always don't feel good. Two, now there's your two generations
Speaker 2: away from the incoming. So now there's a whole new energy.
Speaker 2: And now you got these these these dancers who want
Speaker 2: to just kick and kick and kick and can do it.
Speaker 2: And you are now in the body that's like I've
Speaker 2: done that, But now I really feel how it's feeling
Speaker 2: to get off this tour bus and get back into
Speaker 2: rehearsal the next day and say it again, pull people
Speaker 2: out in the back. And then you also don't have
Speaker 2: to prove in that same way, like you don't have
Speaker 2: to you know, when you're twenty six, get off the
Speaker 2: tour bucks and Alonzo King is in the studio and
Speaker 2: you and that show the night before only did one ballet.
Speaker 2: You're going to get into that rehearsal with King. You're
Speaker 2: going to kick some butt because you are trying to
Speaker 2: get into the ballet. But when you're in your early thirties,
Speaker 2: you're like, well, Lonzo King already knows me, and I've
Speaker 2: just did for ballets the night before. Give me a second.
Speaker 2: And going back to the thing what you're saying, I
Speaker 2: just believe that when I turned thirty, I begin to understand, Okay,
Speaker 2: my body is still capable, but that is just I
Speaker 2: just don't want to continuously do that just all the
Speaker 2: time in that way. I need something else. I need
Speaker 2: to explore this moment. I need to find newness. So
Speaker 2: maybe that regard, maybe that maybe that becomes a situation
Speaker 2: where I'm not lifting my leg up as high, or
Speaker 2: I'm playing with the idea of Porto bra I'm investigating
Speaker 2: through this piece in a in a less visceral way.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm finding other nuances. You know, I'm you know,
Speaker 2: I'm You have to put yourself in in a in
Speaker 2: a situation where it's not always just that, because it's
Speaker 2: not always that I'm going to get older and it's
Speaker 2: not going to happen. It's just I'm gonna get older.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna realize that I don't always have to do that.
Speaker 2: I don't always when I'm in a relationship, have to
Speaker 2: scream at my partner. We can simply have a conversation
Speaker 2: and sometimes listen to me. Young people, sometimes when you
Speaker 2: whisper it and you simply just walk away, that do
Speaker 2: that does more damage then you're screaming down the street
Speaker 2: banging on his car. I may have to in my life.
Speaker 2: But you know, we're talking about that another podcast.
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about, but you just.
Speaker 2: Learned backs back to dance. You just learned that, like
Speaker 2: it becomes about those in betweens and those subtleties, and
Speaker 2: that that actually is what carries you through. It makes
Speaker 2: you an artist.
Speaker 1: That part yes, and you are definitely that, and you
Speaker 1: have been such an artist. I'm going I'm going to
Speaker 1: jump to the lead now, you have become such an
Speaker 1: artist through your time with Philadenko and with your company
Speaker 1: and as a solo performer, that you have been commissioned
Speaker 1: to create a work on none of them than the
Speaker 1: Martha Graham Dance Company.
Speaker 2: Heller hellar such a blessing, so exciting.
Speaker 1: What was that announced? What did that announcement feel like?
Speaker 2: So it was it was a bit surreal. I was
Speaker 2: on a call. I was actually doing a call with
Speaker 2: the Art Philly team and Philadenko's staff, and they were
Speaker 2: just explaining what they would want this collaboration between Philadenko
Speaker 2: and Martha Graham to be, and how it's tying into
Speaker 2: the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of America, and this
Speaker 2: idea that there be a choreographer from Philly who can
Speaker 2: ultimately give the Martha Graham Dance Company of sort of
Speaker 2: like Philadelphia experience, kind of like welcoming like us, like
Speaker 2: like them coming over and like we just having like
Speaker 2: this party with them in art and on our turfs.
Speaker 2: I'm not really describing it in the best way, and
Speaker 2: some kind of way I guess through hearing that Jeannmies
Speaker 2: Brown was just like, oh, that should be Tommy, and
Speaker 2: they were like, oh okay. So then they brought it
Speaker 2: back to Janet Ilber, who is the artist director of
Speaker 2: Martha Graham. And she's someone I've been lightly emailing my
Speaker 2: work too, just in the shuffle of like I'm a koreacifer,
Speaker 2: look at my work. So some kind of way, I
Speaker 2: think she took a deeper look into my work and
Speaker 2: was like, yes, this would be a nice idea. So
Speaker 2: then our Philly came to me, the people from our Philly,
Speaker 2: and so all right. So the idea is to use
Speaker 2: the archive of Martha Graham's American document piece that she
Speaker 2: choreographed I think in nineteen thirty eight. I don't want
Speaker 2: to really give a nineteen thirty eight. I think it's
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight.
Speaker 1: Though still roundabout.
Speaker 2: And it's around it, it's around a time. And so
Speaker 2: the idea because a lot of what in my opinion
Speaker 2: of Martha Graham's dance companies, newer works, it's always in
Speaker 2: conversation some kind of way to Martha in her work,
Speaker 2: whether you know, said choreographers following a picture or a
Speaker 2: quote or a music score that was unfinished or something,
Speaker 2: in my opinion says like it speaks back to Martha,
Speaker 2: which makes this was a way, which was a way
Speaker 2: that this commission speaks back to Martha. Was like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, she does this piece called American Document. It's celebrating,
Speaker 2: it asks the question of what does it mean to
Speaker 2: be an American? And her source material was the Decoration
Speaker 2: of Independence and other And so when I was brought that,
Speaker 2: I said, well, number one, I want to be just
Speaker 2: in conversation with her. And something I told the Dances
Speaker 2: in process recently, I said, it's it's almost like that
Speaker 2: that YouTube clip if you ever seen it of Nikki
Speaker 2: Giovanni and James Baldwin Ago. So yes, you know, just
Speaker 2: two people sitting and having a conversation and posing their ideas.
Speaker 2: And you know, that's how I begin to think of
Speaker 2: the framing of the word. But to go back to it,
Speaker 2: when it really started to take off, I had an
Speaker 2: old ship moment. I was like, oh shit, like this
Speaker 2: is big, this is like and I was like, this
Speaker 2: is big. I didn't I didn't expect it. It wasn't
Speaker 2: on my docket. I think in previous seasons, I you know,
Speaker 2: you talk to people, you're getting interests, You're like, let's
Speaker 2: keep you know, just keep showing me your work. It's
Speaker 2: such a it's a song and dance that I simply
Speaker 2: got on a zoom call because JB's like, I need
Speaker 2: to get on a zoom call with me today, and
Speaker 2: I said, okay, I got on, and thinking I was
Speaker 2: gonna be a liaison in a different capacity, she just
Speaker 2: suggested my name and I said, oh, let's go. It's
Speaker 2: go time. And I think it's just been such an
Speaker 2: exciting process. I'm really proud of the work. I'm really
Speaker 2: excited about the work, and it's go time. Let's let's
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: I was so thrilled when I saw your name on
Speaker 1: the press release, and well, two things went across my mind.
Speaker 1: One was work. The other one was like, oh because
Speaker 1: when we went and saw Martha and I went and
Speaker 1: saw Rennie Harris's most recent residency work and oh, we
Speaker 1: can talk about it. And there was that big installation
Speaker 1: dedicated to Philadenko and I was like, oh, that's cool,
Speaker 1: Well what's that doing here? And then that two and
Speaker 1: two made four and I was like oh they're doing
Speaker 1: oh and then oh and then he's oh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: got so excited and that I was immediately like, first
Speaker 1: of all, we need to have him on the show
Speaker 1: because I need to talk about this to someone besides myself, Like,
Speaker 1: I am so proud of you, and it just makes sense.
Speaker 1: It just makes sense to me.
Speaker 2: Just I am so I thank you so much for that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: to be at his show, even he said, Rennie, that
Speaker 2: is sorry. Rennie was like, you're just gonna stand over
Speaker 2: here and act like everything is normal. And meanwhile, like
Speaker 2: you're you're and the process to this work you're doing
Speaker 2: is right over here, and that's you know, I just
Speaker 2: want chicken. I just want some chicken. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: just here to make some dances and get some some chicken.
Speaker 2: But it keeps like, I don't know, I think I
Speaker 2: suppress it, like, oh, it's a simple commission, and every.
Speaker 1: Because you want to be humble. You don't want to like,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to be like.
Speaker 2: I'm out here making this valet. Everyone everyone stand up. No,
Speaker 2: you don't want to do that. But you also it's
Speaker 2: it's not weird, that's that's not the word I want
Speaker 2: to use. But like It is interesting when your dreams
Speaker 2: start to come true in the regards of how the
Speaker 2: opportunities are coming through and how you desperately want to
Speaker 2: stay normal, like you want it to be like just
Speaker 2: another you know. I started making works a long time
Speaker 2: ago for like Elli on Dance Theater Philadelphia Treasure, And
Speaker 2: my biggest thing on days they were premiering a new
Speaker 2: piece was I was eating skills in the back of
Speaker 2: the house and I still want to be that Tommy, Like,
Speaker 2: I just want to walk into the theater see the piece.
Speaker 2: And I think when I saw the installation exhibit, I
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, this is a big deal. This is
Speaker 2: a big deal. This is a big deal. But okay,
Speaker 2: just concentrate on making the work, looking at its remaining calm,
Speaker 2: making sure your point of view is clear. But I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure the night before May twenty eight, I'm gona
Speaker 2: probably be somewhere like willing.
Speaker 1: You've got to give yourself that moment. You've got to
Speaker 1: if you haven't already, come on now, just even if
Speaker 1: it's just like standing in the middle of the room,
Speaker 1: just throw your head back in screen. I am mirroring
Speaker 1: a work on the Martha Graham Dance company, bitch.
Speaker 2: You got it. You gotta get through the tech like
Speaker 2: you gotta get that's my thing. You always you gotta
Speaker 2: get through the tech. When you get to the tech
Speaker 2: and it's like okay, the ideas, the costumes, it's boom.
Speaker 2: That's when you can say, for then you got it.
Speaker 2: You just that's I think it's not really about jinxing.
Speaker 2: I think that's just when maybe subconsciously, I can allow
Speaker 2: myself to feel okay, okay. You know, like when I
Speaker 2: got to Googleheim. That was a very exciting moment, like
Speaker 2: to see to receive an email and to for to
Speaker 2: say the words of congratulations, you will be getting this award.
Speaker 2: The only thing you gotta wait on is these people
Speaker 2: are going to vote on it. The board of trustees
Speaker 2: put the panel already got your name on this list
Speaker 2: and you go, babes, that was like out and for
Speaker 2: that moment, I can trust it. But right now with
Speaker 2: dances you put on stage and the art and you notice,
Speaker 2: as a creator, it's like you gotta make sure it
Speaker 2: gets rolling right then you feel it, then I might
Speaker 2: I think I'll feel that excitement, But even then you
Speaker 2: might not see me after the show. That's a horror podcast.
Speaker 1: Fair because like I imagine, you know, it's got to
Speaker 1: feel both surreal and correct. You know, surreal because you
Speaker 1: know how many individuals walk in the planet or that
Speaker 1: have walked the planet can say I was commissioned to
Speaker 1: create a work in the Martha Graham Dance Company like
Speaker 1: that is like a unique experience that not a lot
Speaker 1: of people get. Right, okay, fears, But at the same time,
Speaker 1: you have been working towards this moment, Like this moment
Speaker 1: just makes sense in the trajectory of how you've been
Speaker 1: leading your life and putting out your work and investing
Speaker 1: in yourself and investing in your art, like this just
Speaker 1: makes sense. At least it does to me, so I
Speaker 1: hope it does to you.
Speaker 2: Very grateful it makes you know, just I think when
Speaker 2: you start making work and you start getting opportunities, you
Speaker 2: just you look to the next like, well, okay, what's next,
Speaker 2: and not like the next as like what's big. But
Speaker 2: you just want to keep you just want to keep
Speaker 2: making work, right, And I think I am very grateful,
Speaker 2: And yes, it's like it's exciting to make you know,
Speaker 2: And honestly, maybe Paul is I say this. I think
Speaker 2: Tommy ten years ago are seven years ago would see
Speaker 2: the name, the opportunity, the lights, the glamor, you know,
Speaker 2: the outfit, the bow and photograph honey, and to see
Speaker 2: like how can you know? The desperateeration of wanting to
Speaker 2: leverage it and expecting the expectations like we now. I'm
Speaker 2: sure this up thing is coming next to but I
Speaker 2: think ebbing and flowing in COVID and you are closing
Speaker 2: and all the things has come in adulting. While creating,
Speaker 2: I am more so more concentrating on the importance that
Speaker 2: it is to just be in a room and getting
Speaker 2: to make a dance. So yes, I feel the honor
Speaker 2: and the grateful and the prestigeous prestige nous of this
Speaker 2: sitution situation. But I'm also focusing, okay, with who and
Speaker 2: what is the next dance I get to create? And
Speaker 2: it doesn't need to be I hope it to be,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't need to be.
Speaker 1: It needs to just be right right.
Speaker 2: And you know, OLDA Sali once time told me that
Speaker 2: he said, every day you create is important dance, but
Speaker 2: don't negate when you're at Metropolitan Youth Ballet making a
Speaker 2: little eight minute daddy for Lisa Collins, make them a ballet,
Speaker 2: like concentrate on the dance and that's important. And then
Speaker 2: when you're in the studio with Martha Graham and Philadelko dancers,
Speaker 2: you make them the same important ballet you show up
Speaker 2: to make because you just want to make. Also have
Speaker 2: been thinking of Charles. I've been thinking a lot about time,
Speaker 2: watching people age and closely seen that as creatives, there's
Speaker 2: this window and as that window closes, only so many
Speaker 2: will remain legendary status kind of, you know, like bil
Speaker 2: T Jones can make a ballet if he wants to
Speaker 2: make a ballet, right, you know, and if he wanted
Speaker 2: to put in my opinion, let me say that, in
Speaker 2: my opinion, if he wanted to put a blast dollar
Speaker 2: email to all the top companies, it's like, you know what,
Speaker 2: I feel like making works this year. They will commission him.
Speaker 2: They will say, yes, they will look at that. There
Speaker 2: are people who might have been making work at the
Speaker 2: same time as Bilty Jones who didn't get to make
Speaker 2: it to that status in that place. But I hope
Speaker 2: they're still making dances, right, And I think that's all
Speaker 2: I'm trying to constraint on. I just want to make dances.
Speaker 1: Something you said really struck me. You were talking about
Speaker 1: the desperation of you from a few years years ago.
Speaker 1: And I definitely feel that because like young artist Charles,
Speaker 1: that was like I wouldn't have phrased it that way,
Speaker 1: but that's what that was, that desperation, like I gotta
Speaker 1: go and I gotta do, and I gotta meet and
Speaker 1: they gotta they gotta know who I am, because if
Speaker 1: they don't know who I am, then ain't nobody. I'm
Speaker 1: never gonna be able to do anything. Oh, I got you,
Speaker 1: I get that. That's that's real.
Speaker 2: The idea is important. You need to hear it, need
Speaker 2: to see it. You're getting critiques and you're not really listening.
Speaker 1: Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus.
Speaker 2: You're not listening. But also you're not able. Because I
Speaker 2: want to tell young artists it's not about like conforming
Speaker 2: and slencing yourself sometimes it's just really about slowing down
Speaker 2: to articulate yourself, expressing the importance and then finding a
Speaker 2: better way maybe to like go about it and not
Speaker 2: being so hear me, now, move out the way. But
Speaker 2: more so, okay, this is my idea, you know, let
Speaker 2: me hear your thoughts on it, and then really finding
Speaker 2: the essence and the importance of what you're trying to
Speaker 2: do to get to the thing. And then something I
Speaker 2: want to tell young artists too, is like, that won't
Speaker 2: be the last thing you make. So if this person
Speaker 2: is giving you pushback, this director, this producer, fill in
Speaker 2: the blank, you can you can say I can save
Speaker 2: my idea for another thing and have more ownership. I
Speaker 2: got a story about that. You like to hear about it?
Speaker 2: Here it goes. Now you've been just kidding, But yeah,
Speaker 2: I gave a company an idea.
Speaker 1: Please.
Speaker 2: I gave them an idea and the director pushed back
Speaker 2: on it, and it just began to be such a
Speaker 2: battle about doing my idea that they first agreed on doing.
Speaker 2: And before I got South Central, I just had the
Speaker 2: pause and go intie myself and collect my self work
Speaker 2: and say, Tommy, you know the idea can work. Maybe
Speaker 2: this idea is just not for this organization, and that
Speaker 2: is nothing wrong. And I still have a relationship with
Speaker 2: the organization. But I took my idea and gave it
Speaker 2: to Philadelphia Dance Projects Terry Fox, and now we're presenting
Speaker 2: it in twenty twenty seven, funded by PEW. It's okay.
Speaker 2: Bam and I wish so when you when we talk
Speaker 2: about old Tommy twenty and seventeen, I wanted everything. And
Speaker 2: I have a best friend who is also my manager,
Speaker 2: Lamar Baylor, and he simply asked me because I was
Speaker 2: I was fighting with the organization. I was fighting with
Speaker 2: the organization about an application, about how this needs to happen.
Speaker 2: I wasn't fighting. I was just being like aggressive, like
Speaker 2: are you submitting it? You're not submitting it, and this
Speaker 2: is about this was for something else. And inside of
Speaker 2: hearing me vent Lamar simply asked me. He said, why
Speaker 2: is this award so important to you? Why getting this
Speaker 2: award is so important to you? Like what would this
Speaker 2: do for you? And at that moment in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: I just felt like I just wanted the awards. I
Speaker 2: can say I got the award.
Speaker 1: You want to collect them like infinity stones.
Speaker 2: Like I'm like, I'm the Grammys and this is Whitney
Speaker 2: Houston album. I got five of them, like holding them
Speaker 2: at the press conference. That's what I wanted. And I
Speaker 2: had to get to the root of it and said,
Speaker 2: this award gives me an opportunity. This award is for
Speaker 2: leverage this award helps me to get into a studio
Speaker 2: and make a dance. So that's all I want to do.
Speaker 2: So when this is back to what's happening in my
Speaker 2: life right now, listen.
Speaker 1: Martho Graham companies that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, being in that studio, being in that studio
Speaker 2: with these people, I'm like, WHOA. But being in this
Speaker 2: studio with those people, I'm like, but I'm working to work.
Speaker 2: So I'm not even in here thinking about the blog
Speaker 2: post as I can make the content. He sit in
Speaker 2: the studio with my glasses giving a post. I'm not
Speaker 2: even thinking about that. I'm thinking about that.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about please tell me you did that always
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: Today I threw on this. This is not even part
Speaker 2: of my outfit. I just threw this vest on, this hat.
Speaker 2: I said, we're gonna we're gonna be on a post.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be on camera. We gotta be on camera.
Speaker 2: But it's not But it's it's just not no longer
Speaker 2: about the showing of that. It's just I want to like,
Speaker 2: you know, I put this vest on, this this hat on,
Speaker 2: But at the root, I just want to be in
Speaker 2: conversation with you talking about dance. That's what makes me happy,
Speaker 2: and that's what I need to happen for the rest
Speaker 2: of my life.
Speaker 1: And that's the media comes through. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So doing this thing with Martha Graham and Philadenko, I'm
Speaker 2: just like, great, Now, could we see the future of it?
Speaker 2: Could it walk? Couldn't talk? Maybe? But if on May thirtieth,
Speaker 2: after that last show, if Joan Mais Brown and Janet
Speaker 2: are both like, all right, this was great. I have this,
Speaker 2: I have this memory, I have this piece, I have
Speaker 2: this in.
Speaker 1: My you better have your video.
Speaker 2: All of it, all of them, you know. I have
Speaker 2: this thing, and I just really want to say again,
Speaker 2: I know sometimes people don't say it, but like, I'm
Speaker 2: really proud of the word good. They're dancing, We're dancing,
Speaker 2: We're we're we're We're in there conjuring, hunting, We're conjuring
Speaker 2: some spirits and some some emotions and some stories. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: So is this piece just you? Creating on the Graham
Speaker 1: Company dancers was also like is it a Danko dancers
Speaker 1: and Graham? Like, how was it? Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay, So the idea was the piece be with four
Speaker 2: Graham dancers, and I was initially supposed to only use
Speaker 2: four Danko dancers, so it's gonna be eight dancers in total,
Speaker 2: four and four. But I had an extra dancer from
Speaker 2: Danko come and be understudy, and you know, Charles, that
Speaker 2: first week of starting this process, she was just in
Speaker 2: there killing it. I just said, well, we're going to
Speaker 2: use five Danko dancers and for Martha Graham dancers, and
Speaker 2: everyone agreed on it, and it's worked out really lovely.
Speaker 2: My first idea for the process was that I was
Speaker 2: going to do a piece where it would have been
Speaker 2: five sections and Martha Graham would had a section, Danko
Speaker 2: would had a section kind of thing. Yeah, like the
Speaker 2: first the first idea was Graham was going to get
Speaker 2: a group section, then Graham would have like a solo
Speaker 2: do at section, then Danker would have a group section,
Speaker 2: and then Danker would have a solo group section, and
Speaker 2: then they'll have a section together. Because in Martha Graham's
Speaker 2: original American document piece, it was five sections and we
Speaker 2: got to go in and make him generating material. And
Speaker 2: I said, hmm, we're just all gonna be one company.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be one one ensemble, and you know, all
Speaker 2: five sections is is both companies and they're integrated in
Speaker 2: ways where the goal is. You know, if you saw
Speaker 2: the piece outside of the context of a Martha Graham
Speaker 2: show or a Philadenko show, and you just saw them,
Speaker 2: you would just see an assimble. You wouldn't be able
Speaker 2: to say, she's in Danko and she's in Martha Graham.
Speaker 2: It's just which. One thing I want to I want
Speaker 2: to bring to the listeners is, you know, I come
Speaker 2: from the black dance tradition, the black dance esthetic. I
Speaker 2: trained at the Alvin Aley American Dance Center before it
Speaker 2: was called the Aley School and Martha Graham's technique. The
Speaker 2: Graham technique was very important. You had that three times
Speaker 2: a week. You had it's like, it's it's a part
Speaker 2: of our training. So to really you know people, I
Speaker 2: had a friend who said, oh, like, it's interesting that
Speaker 2: you're doing a piece that's a collaboration between Danko and
Speaker 2: Martha Graham. Like I wouldn't really see that, but I'm
Speaker 2: like to this person who's also African American, I'm like,
Speaker 2: but you trained in Graham, right, you know what contractions
Speaker 2: are you You have had that that teaching deep in
Speaker 2: your body, so that actually makes a lot of sense
Speaker 2: that this type of you know, have Pat Thomas, Pat Thomas,
Speaker 2: Mary Hinkstonuvey Williams, Euroco all were teachers at Philadenko. So
Speaker 2: of course you know that's ingrained in our Denise Jefferson
Speaker 2: and she rests in peace, all ingrained in who we are,
Speaker 2: in our aesthetics. So to be in the studio all together,
Speaker 2: it just makes so much sense that we just become one. Right.
Speaker 1: That's the other thing. When I when I when I
Speaker 1: realized that there was going to be that collaboration, that's
Speaker 1: another element that just made perfect sense.
Speaker 2: It just did.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, well, well, of course there's that connection
Speaker 1: because like Danko is as steeped in Graham as it
Speaker 1: is in Horton or like any other foundational technique, that
Speaker 1: just makes sense. And then I was like, why the
Speaker 1: hell ain'th this happened before? Because that just it makes
Speaker 1: too much.
Speaker 2: I don't know where we're you know, Charles, I think
Speaker 2: where we're going in dance presentation because I know recent
Speaker 2: in recent seasons Paul Taylor and Dane Contemporary Dance Company
Speaker 2: has done some type of collaboration like this. I just
Speaker 2: I'm just questioning, like I think more companies need to
Speaker 2: take on this challenge or this idea. Not challenge this idea,
Speaker 2: it's just because it's really it's really interesting, and it's
Speaker 2: a shared audience experience. Like come next week at the
Speaker 2: at the Annenburgh, You're going to be in that audience
Speaker 2: and you're going to see Philadenko supporters, you gonna see
Speaker 2: hardcore Martha Graham supporters, and there's this opportunity that there
Speaker 2: could be a crossover.
Speaker 1: I just had the most entertaining visual image because I
Speaker 1: know how we are when it comes to Danko. We
Speaker 1: we can be our routed bunch.
Speaker 2: And we're gonna get rowdy and I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: I am glad that I learned how to be a
Speaker 1: dance audience member in Philadelphia because I learned that it
Speaker 1: is okay to be rowdy and express your your your appreciation.
Speaker 1: And then growing up through the growing up, coming up
Speaker 1: through the Carriamu and company like.
Speaker 2: Million years, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: But like you emote, you vocalize, and you know, some
Speaker 1: of the more buttoned up members of of of the
Speaker 1: Arts audience they hate us it next to me and
Speaker 1: I do not care. I am so excited. Yes, I
Speaker 1: am so excited to see these because you know, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna say it. The Martha Graham Company and the
Speaker 1: aesthetic is viewed as being very white. I said it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just just by RTHU of it being
Speaker 1: what it is.
Speaker 2: No shame, I would say, because it's like it's high art.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: I have a friend who's a choreographer, well known choreographer.
Speaker 2: I won't say his name like that, but he says
Speaker 2: it a lot. He wants to create high art in
Speaker 2: the line of Martha Graham, Paul Taylor. He wants, you know,
Speaker 2: he's black.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: I want to create high heart.
Speaker 1: It's high art anyway. But it is also like historically
Speaker 1: been white. Like that's not shade, that's just a fact,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and you know it's but because
Speaker 1: it is high art and because of it has been
Speaker 1: white for so long, and I'm putting the agent white,
Speaker 1: the other age white, the audience and this is and
Speaker 1: this is obviously changed over time, like I recognize that,
Speaker 1: but like there's a certain expectation, there's a certain vibe experience,
Speaker 1: right that you know, when you go to a GRAM show,
Speaker 1: it's a little more buttoned up.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like they may they may applaud an
Speaker 2: excitement if something's like generating, they may say who right,
Speaker 2: But when you add a Danko performance and that same
Speaker 2: type of excitement is happening, Yes, it's the vocalization is going,
Speaker 2: you better, go, you better.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm excited to see happen.
Speaker 2: That next what and for me to jump in on
Speaker 2: that what I'm excited for. Not to get too much out,
Speaker 2: you know, I am one of the resident choreographers of
Speaker 2: Phodenko and I'm a long time member, and I agree
Speaker 2: with you. When I moved to Great City and experience
Speaker 2: the Philadenko Saturday show, I was like, oh, this is
Speaker 2: something I've never experienced in my life where the audience
Speaker 2: gets robbed up, but the dancers go to a place
Speaker 2: and it's like, you're no. I remember my first Saturday
Speaker 2: Philadenko show. I was like, I'm looking at someone. I know.
Speaker 2: I've looked at you for the past couple of months.
Speaker 2: But now that we're on this stage, you you are
Speaker 2: you transformed on me. Dog, You're somewhere else. You're lifted.
Speaker 2: Spirit has come in, you have long You're doing things
Speaker 2: with your body that I kind of thought you could do,
Speaker 2: but now you are taking it there. And we had
Speaker 2: a rehearsal in New York with Martha Graham and Danko.
Speaker 2: Dancers started to teat that line. They started to hold
Speaker 2: things and do things with the with the material. And
Speaker 2: I said, that's gonna be interesting for Graham to get
Speaker 2: on stage at that Hanenburgh because Graham Danko's gonna do
Speaker 2: that home turf like we at the fourth, the Final four,
Speaker 2: and it's like people here and this is what we do.
Speaker 2: And I'm excited to see how that gets. The Graham
Speaker 2: dances because I feel like they are also they're also
Speaker 2: because dance is contagious. Good dance is contagious. And the
Speaker 2: thing I was saying about when I watched one of
Speaker 2: my friends on stage be transformed, I didn't go back
Speaker 2: to my dress room thinking to myself, Oh, they just
Speaker 2: all started to get on stage and I don't know
Speaker 2: what was happening. I said, Okay, all right, you doing that.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do this. And it starts this conversation and
Speaker 2: we all know one thing Graham dances are. They have epicness.
Speaker 2: They're dramatic. They are and I mean dramatic as an expression.
Speaker 2: So I don't think they're gonna be attimidated by that.
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna get excited about It's gonna turn
Speaker 2: into this whirlwind of an experience. And that is what
Speaker 2: I'm excited about.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the dancers. That's that's another thing I was
Speaker 1: thinking of, like the excitement of the GRAM dancers getting
Speaker 1: sinking their teeth into your material. Cause you know, I
Speaker 1: I am not as well versed in uh more contemporary
Speaker 1: works that have come out of the company. Like I know,
Speaker 1: I know the repertory and I love that, but I
Speaker 1: don't know how uh diverse their more contemporary programs have been.
Speaker 1: I assume they have been so, But I I also
Speaker 1: know what it takes to be a GRAM dancer, just
Speaker 1: like I know what it takes to be a dental dancer.
Speaker 1: So it's like all that facility, you know, it's just
Speaker 1: and then it gets to let loose in a way
Speaker 1: that they're not they're not I don't gonna say, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna say I used to, but that they're they
Speaker 1: don't do every day ye sighted to see it.
Speaker 2: That's also you know, speaking and I love this conversation
Speaker 2: we're really having. I just want to say that. It's
Speaker 2: I've been writing a lot in materials that I've been
Speaker 2: working on in the applications of sort. It's like, this
Speaker 2: is honoring that I have to the Black dance aesthetic.
Speaker 2: It is who I am. Yes, I've gone to grad
Speaker 2: school and I've learned about Pinabuch and you know, Anna
Speaker 2: Teresa and so many other postmodern likes. But I'm from
Speaker 2: the Black Church. I'm from South Central. There's a there's
Speaker 2: a spirit, there's an element, there's an expression that I
Speaker 2: never want to leave my movement aesthetic. And you saying
Speaker 2: that with the dances I've witnessed that I have witnessed
Speaker 2: the Martha Graham dancers catching spirit in a run, and
Speaker 2: I'm like you like, yes, like I give, I give
Speaker 2: way for that. That's a very important element to what
Speaker 2: I do. And whether it's making work on New York
Speaker 2: City Ballet, are making work on Alvin Ailey, are making
Speaker 2: work on complexions, which I have a piece of complexion
Speaker 2: is coming this fall. That was a little plug. It's
Speaker 2: I want that spirit to be be able to be
Speaker 2: accessed there.
Speaker 1: It is, yes, to be able to be accessed.
Speaker 2: And also what I'm excited about too with the Martha
Speaker 2: Graham for the Danko collaboration. It's going to be accessed
Speaker 2: in two different ways, and I think, you know, it's
Speaker 2: not going to be like Martha Graham dancer out there
Speaker 2: trying to be like the Danko dancers. They're going to
Speaker 2: access that spirit or activate that spirit in their own
Speaker 2: way and it will be felt.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: It will be felt, but it won't be the same
Speaker 2: Holy Ghost.
Speaker 1: And I'm really excited about that different font. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: I'm so excited at it. It's like, you know, like
Speaker 1: I love sometimes just for my own like to soothe
Speaker 1: my soul. I like to watch videos of the Gram
Speaker 1: Company just doing the Gram Floor, you know, because I
Speaker 1: personally think the Gram floor is like some of the
Speaker 1: most gorgeous dance in human history. Like just sit and
Speaker 1: watch it. It's meditative, but it's like so like precise
Speaker 1: and just beautiful. I love it. I love it so like,
Speaker 1: but there's also an ascertain amount of rigidity is the
Speaker 1: words coming to my mind, But that is not it
Speaker 1: at all. So I'll say control that you need to
Speaker 1: perfect and cultivate and excel in being purely a Gram dancer,
Speaker 1: that you're gonna have to unlearn at least a little
Speaker 1: bit to be a through access your vocabulary and have
Speaker 1: it come from a natural place. And that's really really
Speaker 1: what I'm looking for.
Speaker 2: You know, one thing I would say from working with
Speaker 2: the gram dancers versus you know, the Danko dancers like
Speaker 2: Graham dancers are they're in their movement approach. In their
Speaker 2: movement approach, they're very statuesque. They can like hold the
Speaker 2: tension in a position. They can in a sense like
Speaker 2: conjure up a thing through emotion. You know, Danko dancers
Speaker 2: is firecrackers boom attitude where Gram dancers want to do
Speaker 2: attitude boom boom, boom boom. Like the texture of it
Speaker 2: and the speed inside of that is more. It's more ground,
Speaker 2: it's more heavy, it's more heavy, and Dank's not light
Speaker 2: like ballet. Dang's not light, but that lightness but can't swiftness.
Speaker 2: It can be, but it's about it's about a swiftness.
Speaker 2: It's about it. It's like a like an attitude swiftness.
Speaker 2: It's like you know, it's a it's a it's a
Speaker 2: it's a finger snap deal swift. But it's it's it
Speaker 2: got a little it got a little bite to it,
Speaker 2: and I don't know why I just did that to
Speaker 2: be whatever and whoever's listening to this in the year
Speaker 2: two thousand and thirty eight, Yes, I did do that.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that I was here for it. The
Speaker 1: image that came to mind with Dangle when you just
Speaker 1: said that, it's like, okay, so like a Danko dancer
Speaker 1: can do like just a little finger gesture, right, But
Speaker 1: at the same time, it's like, you know that ninety
Speaker 1: year old kung fu master can like take that one
Speaker 1: finger and punch a hole in the wall. That's that
Speaker 1: Danko dancer. You know, that's that power behind just that
Speaker 1: one little finger. But that one little finger can punch
Speaker 1: a hole through a wall. Don't get it twisted.
Speaker 2: It's you know, Danko. Danko's a lifestyle, you know. You
Speaker 2: you get into this company that's like a detour for
Speaker 2: a second. You get into this company for your talent,
Speaker 2: for your magic. As Joe Mais Brown would say, I
Speaker 2: saw the magic and I said boo boom. But then
Speaker 2: some kind of way you learn how to be a
Speaker 2: Danko dancer, not from someone just literally telling you what
Speaker 2: to do with your body in choreography, but it becomes
Speaker 2: a lifestyle that begins to inform. I always say when
Speaker 2: you are a woman, when you are a danko female
Speaker 2: identifying dancer. However, we want to say that now twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six. If the bus, the tour bus that we're
Speaker 2: taken to the theater, was it gets stuck in a ditch,
Speaker 2: all eight of the female identifying dancers on the roster
Speaker 2: of Philadenko will get off that bus and push that
Speaker 2: bus out the dish.
Speaker 1: Yep, the dish.
Speaker 2: They would do it. It won't. It won't be you
Speaker 2: need to help us. It's like, we are here, let's go.
Speaker 2: And you see that in their bodies when they mean business,
Speaker 2: they mean business. Hair is in that bun technique on fleet.
Speaker 2: We may have walked in and had thirty minutes to
Speaker 2: get everything together to get on that stage, but we
Speaker 2: are here and we're gonna do it that. So when
Speaker 2: you gave your yes yes and she comes, don't JB
Speaker 2: would come in and jab never said get your leg
Speaker 2: up higher or jump higher. It just would be like
Speaker 2: impress me. She's She used these metaphors like why do
Speaker 2: you get a solo? I need to know why you
Speaker 2: get a solo, and just through her language and her
Speaker 2: one word or jazzy, she'd like, make me understand why
Speaker 2: you got a solo. She would always say that, and
Speaker 2: it'd be a piece that everyone gets.
Speaker 1: Solo right, right right, and it'd be like.
Speaker 2: Well, why why is it your turn to get solo?
Speaker 2: I need to know? And you'd be like okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: What she says now like you know you gotta you
Speaker 2: gotta reach past your fingertips. That's something she repeats a
Speaker 2: lot to this generation of dancers. You know, you know,
Speaker 2: show me, show me why you're show me why you're gorgeous.
Speaker 2: You're gorgeous, show me that. What's something else? Like she
Speaker 2: it's these lifestyle it's never her and not her. Her
Speaker 2: notes or theories are ways to get you to do
Speaker 2: the Danko thing dance wise. It's just sometimes never about
Speaker 2: something technical like turn your leg out. It's about you
Speaker 2: living your life a certain way. You you coming out
Speaker 2: here and embodying life in a certain way, and then
Speaker 2: that makes you dance like gee, like I said that,
Speaker 2: And the thing about the women getting off to do
Speaker 2: that for the bus. But she demands that, he demands
Speaker 2: that we got to get there everyone get off this
Speaker 2: bus and it's like, this is what we're doing, and
Speaker 2: in some kind of way that just informs the movement.
Speaker 1: Like you ain't that cute?
Speaker 2: Come on? If she seems to say she used to say, oh,
Speaker 2: she used to say, if a choreographer asks you to
Speaker 2: balance on your ear load, you try for real, period,
Speaker 2: you just try, give it, give it a go. It
Speaker 2: can happen. You would say that. You'd be like, huh,
Speaker 2: it wasn't like let's talk about It's like, no, do it, yeah,
Speaker 2: figure it out.
Speaker 1: One of my so for a couple of years, and
Speaker 1: you know this, I was the production manager at the
Speaker 1: Performance Garage, and through my tenure there, I got to
Speaker 1: know uh Philadenko a little better and I am very
Speaker 1: grateful for that. And you know, I have a working relationship.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm with you know, I tussle with the
Speaker 1: music for your shows.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: But one of the moments that I witnessed that was
Speaker 1: like this is quintessential Danko culture And no one had
Speaker 1: to tell me this. I just saw it. It was
Speaker 1: watching the dancers come in for warm up before dress rehearsal,
Speaker 1: and you know, you see like the black girls come
Speaker 1: in and they got their hair wrapped, and then you
Speaker 1: see the white girls come in and they got their
Speaker 1: hair rapped. That gave me so much joy. It's like,
Speaker 1: I know exactly what that is, that this is what
Speaker 1: we do, This is what.
Speaker 2: What we do. I was gonna say that when my
Speaker 2: best analogy about the wind, I was really going to
Speaker 2: say that they're gonna come up that bus with their
Speaker 2: hair and they still scars.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, because that's what you do. And and you know,
Speaker 1: like these girls learned it from these girls and they
Speaker 1: know why they're doing it, and it's not performative. It's
Speaker 1: just that that's.
Speaker 2: Because it's not about texture, right, It's not about texture.
Speaker 2: It's about the fact that we don't want that hair
Speaker 2: to come out right.
Speaker 1: But I can't I can't guarantee that those particular white
Speaker 1: girls might have ever gotten the opportunity to know to
Speaker 1: do that had they not been in Danko.
Speaker 2: And you know, anything is I'm about to give you something,
Speaker 2: about to give you something, some deep history. You know
Speaker 2: who started that tradition, who you know who that came from?
Speaker 2: Tell me Kim why bears Bailey not surprised. I can
Speaker 2: tell stories, to tell stories of how it had to
Speaker 2: be for her and how that is just the thing
Speaker 2: she tells, like I had to lay down my hair
Speaker 2: before I got to the bus, so she would tell
Speaker 2: you that story in some kind of way. It just
Speaker 2: gets passed down and it just becomes it becomes the thing.
Speaker 2: It's interesting when I went with them to New York,
Speaker 2: I want to say twenty twenty four to help. And
Speaker 2: it's the first thing she said. We was at the
Speaker 2: Joys and she was like, I'm looking around and hair
Speaker 2: and da da da dah, and she just gave her
Speaker 2: now like her history or how it was. She said,
Speaker 2: I'm not used to singing girls do they buns thirty
Speaker 2: minutes before the show. That's just not what we do.
Speaker 2: And it's like she had to like come back in
Speaker 2: there and remind of how it is. But it's crazy.
Speaker 2: You say, oh, that stuff's not crazy, it's just what
Speaker 2: makes because then that how what that translates to you
Speaker 2: when you watch them walk in that theater with their
Speaker 2: buns and they sip scarves on from a rooty to
Speaker 2: a two D and you saw that show. They were ready,
Speaker 2: they were ready for coming. And it's and it's the
Speaker 2: that's the thing about Danko's like, how can I be ready?
Speaker 2: So I don't gotta get ready to get ready? Hello,
Speaker 2: And whatever you're throwing at me, I got it. Whether
Speaker 2: it's a small stage, a big stage, whatever we're doing, orchestra,
Speaker 2: jazz band, recorded, whatever, we got it. If the skips,
Speaker 2: we're gonna keep going. We have figured this out and
Speaker 2: so such deep ways that this is solid because at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, is this rooted in our
Speaker 2: aesthetic and who we are. So back to this pieces,
Speaker 2: that's what we do. They walk in that room, they
Speaker 2: come from their tours. Everyone's coming from you know, Grammar's
Speaker 2: in a hundred year anniversary, Danko's in the fifty six,
Speaker 2: everyone's having exciting shows and Dotty D d D. Then
Speaker 2: they come for a week of rehearsal together and it's
Speaker 2: go time. And I have watched the gram dancers visually
Speaker 2: watch that with Danko, and then in their bodies come like, okay,
Speaker 2: all right, this is what we're doing.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. Now, it's beautiful. It's what I was I
Speaker 1: was sitting here thinking about tradition and it reminds me
Speaker 1: of this funny story that I heard, and I appreciate
Speaker 1: this So this she's in her kitchen and she's cooking dinner,
Speaker 1: and on the back of the stove she has a
Speaker 1: pot of water. Burner's not on, but she just has
Speaker 1: a pot of water sitting in the back of the stove.
Speaker 1: And her daughter goes, Mommy, why do you have that
Speaker 1: pot of water sitting there? And she goes, well, you know,
Speaker 1: that's just what we've always done. I learned that from
Speaker 1: my mother. But I'm not sure while we do that,
Speaker 1: let me find out. Called her mom, mom, when we cook,
Speaker 1: why do we put the pot of water in the
Speaker 1: back of the stove? And Mom goes, well, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's what I've always done. I learned that from my mom.
Speaker 1: So she called her grandma, Grandma, when we cook, why
Speaker 1: do we put the pot of water on the back
Speaker 1: of the stove? And Grandmam went, well, I don't know
Speaker 1: why you're doing it. I do it because my stove's
Speaker 1: uneven and it balances it out. But tradition that you do,
Speaker 1: you know what we do.
Speaker 2: We fall in line. We are all, you know, within
Speaker 2: the philadeenko esthetic or the family or the family tree.
Speaker 2: We we've all been here. There is someone, there is
Speaker 2: someone in a previous generation that is like, oh, we
Speaker 2: are the new version of And I absolutely love that.
Speaker 2: I love that at DANKO you can go to an
Speaker 2: alumni event and talk to people. And maybe this is
Speaker 2: awesome because our founder is still here with us, you know,
Speaker 2: and has dealt with all generations. Even with this younger generation.
Speaker 2: She may not be the same JB that I experience,
Speaker 2: she still gives them JB experiences, Okay, but and it's
Speaker 2: maybe that's something that ties us in that you can
Speaker 2: be the group that did the first New York trip
Speaker 2: and I can be the group that did the first
Speaker 2: European trip, and there's just something that we are just
Speaker 2: deeply connecting on and a part of a fabric. And
Speaker 2: that's something I didn't experience, I didn't dream to really experience,
Speaker 2: and it's been really cool. I came to Danko by accident.
Speaker 2: I tell everybody that same here by accident, and I
Speaker 2: stayed here long by accident. But it was the best
Speaker 2: accident that I think happened for my life.
Speaker 1: What do you mean when you say by accident?
Speaker 2: Well, one, and I think when we previously talked in
Speaker 2: this we talked about just a general of life. But
Speaker 2: you know, I wanted to be an AILY two, which
Speaker 2: at the time, because I'm at a certain age, was
Speaker 2: called the Alvin Alien Repertory Company, but now it's called
Speaker 2: ALY two. And I moved back to New York to
Speaker 2: get into AILY two. The rehearsal director the time just
Speaker 2: was like, hey, like, this is a thing that could
Speaker 2: happen for you. Come back to the school. You know,
Speaker 2: you get ushered in. Simultaneously, Miss Jefferson had other plans
Speaker 2: for me, and she kicked me out to school. She
Speaker 2: kicked me out and I had to basically in a
Speaker 2: couple of hours figure out, well what do I what
Speaker 2: do I do from here? And some kind of way.
Speaker 2: It was just known that with Philadelko's having auditions, you
Speaker 2: should go audition for Philadenko, get on a bus, come late,
Speaker 2: get to the audition. They was holding the audio. I'm
Speaker 2: telling the story. All types are wrong, but let's let's
Speaker 2: slow down. I did, I got I do it? I
Speaker 2: got I did. I did not get my scholarship back
Speaker 2: to the Aly School, be because I missed too many
Speaker 2: gram classes.
Speaker 1: Come on full circle.
Speaker 2: I used to have Graham every day Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
Speaker 2: I had with Harybayashi Kazako hair Bayashi makes she rest
Speaker 2: in peace. And Tuesdays and Thursdays I had it with
Speaker 2: Jacqueline with Glisi in some kind of way. Every Tuesday
Speaker 2: and Thursday, I just missed Miss Beglici's class. I just
Speaker 2: for whatever reasons, and it ran the gamut and I
Speaker 2: ended up leaving the school because my mom couldn't afford
Speaker 2: for me to stay in New York, which I should
Speaker 2: have just stayed in New York. So that was definitely
Speaker 2: my fault. And a couple of months later, this eighty
Speaker 2: two situations happening, I said, well, I'll come back to
Speaker 2: the school. Came back to school the audiship for the scholarship,
Speaker 2: and Miss Jefferson basically was like, you was in concerns
Speaker 2: instant with classes and you left to go home, So
Speaker 2: I don't know how serious you are any longer, and
Speaker 2: I don't want to take a chance you translation, she
Speaker 2: was like, you're trying to get into Amy two and
Speaker 2: it ain't gonna come through me. Okay, black you know
Speaker 2: Black Mamas, you know how it is. It ain't coming
Speaker 2: through me. If that's what you want, you need to
Speaker 2: figure out another path. So the plan was go audition
Speaker 2: for Philadenko because Joemies Brown is friends with Sylvia Waters,
Speaker 2: but then artistic director of Amy two.
Speaker 1: And you're going.
Speaker 2: Because if Joan liked you and Jones interested in you,
Speaker 2: didn't let's take a look, you know, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: don't take one of our students for you, d G
Speaker 2: D DO and the and the The thought right from
Speaker 2: the person Nasha Thomas, my homegirl, great men or the
Speaker 2: thought really was like, you're going to get to the end,
Speaker 2: and you you would just create a buzz and then
Speaker 2: that Monday, because you know, in that time with dance,
Speaker 2: it was all about buzz and your talent. It was
Speaker 2: never it was always like if you was a dancer
Speaker 2: to get to the end of a nationally recognized company audition,
Speaker 2: then you gotta be special. Someone needs to snag you.
Speaker 2: She said, you'll get to the end. She didn't give it.
Speaker 2: She did not count me in to get a contract.
Speaker 2: She was like, you get to the end, and on Monday,
Speaker 2: I'll bring it up in the meeting and that's going
Speaker 2: to make Celia be like who but maybe let you
Speaker 2: know well, because no, Sylvia, how it happens, this is
Speaker 2: so good. Charles. You would get a scholarship to the school,
Speaker 2: and then Celia starts to walk around and see you
Speaker 2: and be like you need or if Sylvia saw you
Speaker 2: outside the school and thought you would be grateful Aly two,
Speaker 2: she would say, come to the summer program. I'll get
Speaker 2: you into Aily two. So the idea was, Okay, Miss
Speaker 2: Jefferson did not give you a scholarship. But Cela Waters
Speaker 2: knows who you are. She knows that you are you
Speaker 2: have the interests of Philadenko. She's going to be like, well,
Speaker 2: come let me see, because you know I'm looking for
Speaker 2: the members of my company. So I end up going
Speaker 2: to this Danko audition and I missed my first bus.
Speaker 2: And as I'm leaving Port Authority at forty second Street,
Speaker 2: I see I was twenty.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, this all tracks go ahead.
Speaker 2: I was twenty. I was leaving Port Authority and I
Speaker 2: was telling my friend, let's go get pancakes.
Speaker 1: I wanted to reach into a time machine and smack it.
Speaker 1: Just now.
Speaker 2: I said, we missed the bus. I mean when I
Speaker 2: said we missed the bus, we missed or I missed
Speaker 2: the bus. He was waiting on me to get there,
Speaker 2: and I was running because I had to go to
Speaker 2: Western Union. My Mama sent me money. Then I gotta
Speaker 2: get the ticket. And this is all before apps. Y'all,
Speaker 2: there was no apps on your phone that you can
Speaker 2: just like Transford. It is so convenient now. To do
Speaker 2: all that, my mom had to wake up. My mom
Speaker 2: lives and my mom lives in California. She had to
Speaker 2: get to Western Union. Then I had to wait for
Speaker 2: Western Union to open at forty second Street. I had
Speaker 2: to get there, get the money, run support authority, pay
Speaker 2: for a ticket, find the bus, skate and as I'm
Speaker 2: getting to the bus gate, that bus is pulling off.
Speaker 2: I had the money and I said, well, I just
Speaker 2: want to get you know, let's go get the refund
Speaker 2: on this ticket and go get some pancakes. So as
Speaker 2: we walking out, I run into my friend Michael Snipes
Speaker 2: and he said, he said, where are you going? I said,
Speaker 2: I was supposed to go. Number one is Michael Snipe.
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm supposed to go to the dank audition,
Speaker 2: but I missed the bus, so blah blah blah. He said, oh,
Speaker 2: my best friend dances there. He was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm always around Danko. He was like, you need to go,
Speaker 2: You're tall. JB would like you. That's the first thing
Speaker 2: he said. I said.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: He was like, yeah, you need to go, you need
Speaker 2: to go. So he calls his friend because he's the
Speaker 2: only person who's had a cell phone, right, I know,
Speaker 2: I shown't know, didn't He calls his friend on her
Speaker 2: land line, she said at the Danko apartments. He said, Hey,
Speaker 2: have his friend. He needs to come to dank audition,
Speaker 2: but he's going to be late. You need to tell
Speaker 2: JB about him. She never met me will and Noel
Speaker 2: never met me a day in her life. Was like,
Speaker 2: well is he tall? Is he good? And Michael was
Speaker 2: like yes and yes. So she goes over. She tells JB, Hey,
Speaker 2: I have a friend. He missed his bus. Blah blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. You know, And just because Willa was the
Speaker 2: prima of the company, jab was like, all right, we'll
Speaker 2: hold the audition. Oh, she said, we hold the audition.
Speaker 2: You say he's good? You know? All right? So I
Speaker 2: arrived in Philly and when I came across that bridge,
Speaker 2: I knew my life was changing. I said, my life
Speaker 2: is about to change. And I'm a person I don't
Speaker 2: like to make drastic changes. It gotta be slow. It
Speaker 2: gotta be planned out, and just the whole me coming
Speaker 2: to a city that I've never been and maybe having
Speaker 2: to move and navigate was just all like what. So
Speaker 2: I came and I did the audition, and JB was like,
Speaker 2: all right, well, I want you to come back on Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Milton Myers is going to be here. It's going to
Speaker 2: be a callback. She had me and another young young
Speaker 2: man staying, but it was already said that somebody who
Speaker 2: we all knew, Mark Spaulding, was getting a contract. So
Speaker 2: I thought that she was looking for two men, and
Speaker 2: one of the two men she was looking for was
Speaker 2: Mark Spalding. So honestly it was between me and this guy.
Speaker 2: So I'm thinking, I'm thinking, yes, we are accomplishing the plan.
Speaker 2: I am one of two guys who maybe getting a
Speaker 2: contract with Philadeenko. So I'm gonna go back to New
Speaker 2: York and I'm definitely getting to eighty two Bay. That's
Speaker 2: happening all my way out. As JB was giving me
Speaker 2: bus money because that's what she did back in the
Speaker 2: day to come back for Tuesday, she said something to me,
Speaker 2: I should I don't remember exactly what she said, but
Speaker 2: she said something to me, and I got back to
Speaker 2: New York on that Monday, and I told my mentor
Speaker 2: everything Nasha, and Nasha simply looked at me and said, oh,
Speaker 2: you're moving to Philadelphia. She said, you're getting a job
Speaker 2: with Philadenko. And the first thing I said to her
Speaker 2: I said, that wasn't the plan. He said, yeah, but
Speaker 2: like that's Philadenko, so right. She was like, hit, it's insane,
Speaker 2: and I said, well, this is okay, all right. So
Speaker 2: then I get inside of it. And my teacher from California,
Speaker 2: Michelle Blossom, saw me dance in Soritos, California with Danko,
Speaker 2: and I was just like, you know, I'm gonna stay
Speaker 2: here for two years. Da da da da da, And
Speaker 2: she stopped me. She said, I want you to understand something.
Speaker 2: She was like, AILY two was a temporary company. You
Speaker 2: only get two years in it and you gotta get out.
Speaker 2: Danko is a forever company. You can stay as long
Speaker 2: as you keep getting renewed. That's where you need to
Speaker 2: be more than an Ally two. This is somewhere where
Speaker 2: you can really sink your teeth in and develop yourself.
Speaker 2: Not saying that the ELY two thing is not a
Speaker 2: great opportunity it is fantastic, fantastic, but it is limited
Speaker 2: and there is which I've experienced for many friends who
Speaker 2: did it. It's stressful you get to that second year.
Speaker 2: Are you going to get into the first company? Are
Speaker 2: you not going to get into the first company? Are
Speaker 2: you gonna got over here? You're gonna go over here?
Speaker 2: So it's she was saying to me at the time
Speaker 2: of my life and where I was physically, so that
Speaker 2: this gives you a better opportunity to figure some things
Speaker 2: out technically with your body, your everything. And I just
Speaker 2: kept figuring it out. And then Charlamirela Maire Williams is
Speaker 2: another one. Later on down the line. I was at
Speaker 2: remember Twelfth Street gym, was that Twelfth Street gym and
Speaker 2: me and Charlimir was talking and I think around our
Speaker 2: ipr oh, yes, And I was telling him how I
Speaker 2: was about to start auditioning. And I was always auditioning, honey,
Speaker 2: I was always looking for the next gig, and I
Speaker 2: have to be like in year seven a dank god
Speaker 2: by this moment six or seven, and he said maybe eight,
Speaker 2: let's go to eight. He said, you know, he was
Speaker 2: like why, he said, why are you auditioning? Like, let's
Speaker 2: talk about it. So I was like, I'm looking for
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm making up all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: And he said, Tommy, you're building a name here, and
Speaker 2: a lot of people don't get to do that. He said,
Speaker 2: people know you as a dancer, he said, Choreographers are
Speaker 2: not coming to that company wanting to work with you.
Speaker 2: He said, But then also now you're making work and
Speaker 2: people are learning about your work, and you know, And
Speaker 2: one thing I will say about Philadelphia, it supports artists.
Speaker 2: It has a lot of opportunities to make work, to
Speaker 2: get funded, to make to make a splash on the ether.
Speaker 2: Fungings a little if you know, but just to make
Speaker 2: to make a splash on the ether. You make a
Speaker 2: work in Philadelphia, it can get to New York some
Speaker 2: kind of way. I have friends in the Midwest. They
Speaker 2: make work, and it's like they don't get the opportunities
Speaker 2: for the work to be seen in this same type
Speaker 2: of gravatose that we can do. I can invite even
Speaker 2: I can invite twelve people from New York to come
Speaker 2: and see your work in Philadelphia, Versus they're not going
Speaker 2: to get on the plane and maybe go see something
Speaker 2: in the Midwest. So easily right. But they'll get on
Speaker 2: the bus, they'll get on the train, or they just
Speaker 2: might be near it. It's just how it all just
Speaker 2: like coming to me. You talk about twenty ten ib D.
Speaker 2: I got a huge opportunity from that ib D with
Speaker 2: Danny g at summer stage. You came to ib D,
Speaker 2: she saw my piece, she was like, whoa, And that
Speaker 2: just started this whole conversation. So I think when Charlamare
Speaker 2: did that, I was like, I just I heard him.
Speaker 2: I paused, I said, Okay, okay, what's more important now? Right?
Speaker 2: Is it more important to be starting to build the
Speaker 2: after or do you want to just you know. I
Speaker 2: think if I would have left Philadelko around my fifth
Speaker 2: and sixth season and went somewhere else, I think the
Speaker 2: way that I had dreamed of that is, I think
Speaker 2: I would have to have start fresh. It would have
Speaker 2: been redirected, but some kind of way me staying and
Speaker 2: then getting associated with Eleon that led to getting associated
Speaker 2: with the University Arts. That led to get associated with
Speaker 2: Dona fe Birchville and let him get associated with you know,
Speaker 2: everyone else in Philadelphia. It just really gets way to
Speaker 2: really helping me to find who exactly I am right now,
Speaker 2: and in the way that I think I do it,
Speaker 2: I always question, like I said, what would have happened
Speaker 2: if I left year six? What would be my influence right?
Speaker 2: What will be what would be my platform? What would
Speaker 2: be I would I have found some of those Tommy
Speaker 2: trademark moves that people talk about. Would I have, like,
Speaker 2: you know, really explored Kanye West the way I used
Speaker 2: to explore Kanye West like some pretty I remember, I
Speaker 2: wanted to get opportunities. You was a.
Speaker 3: I'm laughing because I'm having a huge like flashback of you,
Speaker 3: like bopping to the music from the soundboard at the
Speaker 3: Painted Bride.
Speaker 2: But just like, I don't know, some of those things
Speaker 2: would have happened, and I'm so grateful and that needed
Speaker 2: to happen that way. But even like how now with
Speaker 2: the university arts close and me just really being a
Speaker 2: part of this city, I think that was important, you know,
Speaker 2: to help me stay grounded. But all by accident. I
Speaker 2: was supposed to be here for two years. I left
Speaker 2: the company after three years, moved back to California, did
Speaker 2: an interview with Dan Spirit and talked about Dankos so much.
Speaker 2: The woman said, yes, that's exactly. She said, why are you?
Speaker 2: Then I came on back. Then I left another time
Speaker 2: to go do Complexions. And that's around two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: and remember the recession hit and Obama got on the
Speaker 2: whole and said, you know, we have a recession and
Speaker 2: the arts funding was changing. And I joined Complexions and
Speaker 2: on my first day desmat Richardson said we don't have
Speaker 2: the funds for your position next season, but you know,
Speaker 2: have fun. You're here with us now. And never said
Speaker 2: a word to John Mies Brown about it. Never. She
Speaker 2: just knew I was in New York and I was
Speaker 2: working Complexions some kind of way. She needed me to
Speaker 2: come back to do the Joys. And she called me
Speaker 2: on my last day of work with Complexions and said,
Speaker 2: can you do the Joys? And I said, I sure can.
Speaker 2: I'll come to rehearsal this weekend. Came to rehearsal and
Speaker 2: she just her John yes Brown Way was like, so
Speaker 2: what's going on? And I said, girl, And I told
Speaker 2: her what was happening with Complexions, and she said, well,
Speaker 2: you know, while you're in transition, just stick around. So
Speaker 2: I did the Joys. I did the other summer summer bookings.
Speaker 2: Then I got a job at Radio City Christmas Spectacular.
Speaker 1: And really I did it right.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And this is where that's where it got
Speaker 2: really interesting. I left to do that, and she basically
Speaker 2: held a spot for me and a job with az
Speaker 2: All a Piece because when Tommy comes back, he's going
Speaker 2: to be in that spot. And I was going to
Speaker 2: use my money to go start living my next life.
Speaker 2: But she said, no, no, you're gonna save that money
Speaker 2: and you're gonna put on the show when you get back,
Speaker 2: and just we just kept going. I came back and.
Speaker 1: After a while, I just you just like had this
Speaker 1: fear of like putting down roots.
Speaker 2: You know this was not the plan when I say
Speaker 2: it was always the plan, because I had a moment.
Speaker 2: In recent years, I can tell you I have Ken
Speaker 2: Wiber's Bailey Dance magazine cover. I remember reading that magazine.
Speaker 2: I remember, I remember the picture she had on the cover.
Speaker 2: I remember reading a review that Danko when they did
Speaker 2: Donald Bird's Bad and George Face Out and Sweet Otis.
Speaker 2: I remember reading that review. I remember reading all types
Speaker 2: of things that had like Joe Maris Brown's naming it.
Speaker 2: When I was dancing with Lulu Washington at my first
Speaker 2: I a B D. Everybody in the van from Lulu
Speaker 2: Washington was like, there goes Joe Mays Brown and I
Speaker 2: simply looked her a way and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's her. Oh yeah, I've seen her before. Great. I
Speaker 2: remember seeing Danko at the New Victory Theater in New
Speaker 2: York and seeing JB outside with her famous coach tote
Speaker 2: bag or a tope bag of her sort, you know.
Speaker 2: I remember it's like I have these like so when
Speaker 2: you say that, it's like, yeah, like I feel like
Speaker 2: the roots and being around was really always being shown
Speaker 2: to me. But I was always just saying I got
Speaker 2: another plan and I'm.
Speaker 1: Only thing with are you a leo?
Speaker 2: I have a leo?
Speaker 1: Rising Okay that I mean this may and I haven't
Speaker 1: even do with it. But it's like it's that thing
Speaker 1: where like you can know the thing to do, you
Speaker 1: can know that it's the thing to do, but if
Speaker 1: it's it has to be your idea. Otherwise why are
Speaker 1: you talking to me while we're here?
Speaker 2: And I guess it's so unexpected. My first time as
Speaker 2: a member with Danko, they performed at Lincoln Center outdoors,
Speaker 2: and I remember that was the first time I really
Speaker 2: stopped and was like, I'm in Philadenka, like this, this
Speaker 2: is actually quite a really major situation. Before then, I
Speaker 2: was so like I was supposed to be in eighty
Speaker 2: two and I'm here. Oh, and I'm not even dancing.
Speaker 2: I'm carrying costumes. I sat in that audience and they
Speaker 2: did a Milton Myers piece Canisius, they did Ronald K.
Speaker 2: Brown's Gatekeepers. They just Sweet Oldest by George Fraisal, and
Speaker 2: they ended with Enemy behind the Gates by Christopher L.
Speaker 2: Huggins with no intermission, And the way that entire amphitheater
Speaker 2: of folks was just as you said earlier, yelling and
Speaker 2: screaming and saying work. And I was watching these people
Speaker 2: that I'm in the studio with every day transform and extend,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm one of them. I went
Speaker 2: backstage and I got that suitcase and I said, let's
Speaker 2: get on the bus and go home, y'all, like this
Speaker 2: is where it's at. I was like, oh, okay. And
Speaker 2: to think back, like my career at Danko was so
Speaker 2: so great, Like when I had to retire, I was
Speaker 2: just like, I've done a lot of great dancing and
Speaker 2: worked with a lot of great people. But it was
Speaker 2: just something that I just for a moment didn't want
Speaker 2: to sink my teeth in and really see, you know.
Speaker 2: And it was about it's like I was saying earlier
Speaker 2: about now it's just about making dances. It was about
Speaker 2: I just wanted to be in New York. I just
Speaker 2: wanted to be in the New York. I just wanted
Speaker 2: to dance in the company that you could wear shorts.
Speaker 2: I just wanted I just wanted to like walk, you know.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to live like a lifestyle. It was
Speaker 2: never like I had. Because my best friend dance Curve
Speaker 2: and dance with Alvin Ailing and when they got sweet
Speaker 2: Otis and he was doing the Tripper Perel web person
Speaker 2: and sweet ODIs, and by that moment in my career,
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I've already done the funny Couple.
Speaker 2: And I was in his kitchen teaching him stuff before
Speaker 2: the audition that he had to do to get cast it,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, well, this is these are the steps
Speaker 2: are when he did a Ronald K. Brown piece, and
Speaker 2: I was looking at the video and I said, oh, well,
Speaker 2: those were those were some movements he was workshopping on
Speaker 2: us that summer. He came, I was like, so I
Speaker 2: was like, this is we're all We're all here, We're
Speaker 2: all here, It's all attainable. But before that, y'all was
Speaker 2: I just wanted to be there. I just wanted to
Speaker 2: have a lifestyle of dance that I used to watch
Speaker 2: as a student. The a Leen dancers used to come
Speaker 2: down and then in their drag and just be inthereo
Speaker 2: when you saw them walking down the street with their
Speaker 2: big sunglasses and their big dance bags, and you just
Speaker 2: you just want to have that life and go see
Speaker 2: a show at night. But how was that Danko working
Speaker 2: with Alianza King at the age of twenty one? That
Speaker 2: was a life like like, if I can tell myself,
Speaker 2: I'm like, girlt up.
Speaker 1: So two things. Thing number one that work with the
Speaker 1: enemy behind the gates? Is that what it is called?
Speaker 1: I think that piece I only saw it once, but
Speaker 1: that piece, I think is really what clued me in
Speaker 1: to what being a Danko dancer is. Yes, because I
Speaker 1: remember like what moked to me like there was a
Speaker 1: moment where like it looked at me like this five
Speaker 1: foot two woman ran and jumped and landed on the
Speaker 1: shoulders of this like eight foot tall man, and I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I'm like, okay, yes, I get it.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's the one thing too. I think the overall takeaway
Speaker 1: from this entire conversation is we have to take a
Speaker 1: moment and appreciate where we are. Live in the moment
Speaker 1: that you are currently occupying, because otherwise you you won't
Speaker 1: get the appreciation of being there as much if you
Speaker 1: are constantly looking outside of the moment, looking ahead. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't live in the past because you're
Speaker 1: not there anymore. You can't live in the future because
Speaker 1: you there yet where are you?
Speaker 2: You're here now?
Speaker 1: And that is something that and you know, I'm saying
Speaker 1: this to myself too, but you know that's that's an
Speaker 1: important message to a lot of younger people. You know,
Speaker 1: we're so fixated on you now next.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and we don't we don't remember. And I
Speaker 2: think I learned this through teaching. You don't sometimes remember
Speaker 2: what you've learned and bring it with you. And I
Speaker 2: watched that with younger people. And I've been guilty of that,
Speaker 2: you know, with my own works as a choreographer, Like
Speaker 2: I've gotten into certain processes where I just forget that
Speaker 2: I actually learned how to solve this equation, right, and
Speaker 2: if you honestly just look in your bag and pull
Speaker 2: out some tools, boom, you know, like I asked myself,
Speaker 2: like why did you do that? Like you know you
Speaker 2: knew better not to do that, all right, to use
Speaker 2: that song or to cut, just to cut from there.
Speaker 2: So that's why I want to say, you forget as
Speaker 2: you're looking in the present to look back and be reflective.
Speaker 2: Don't don't be nostalgic all the time. Be reflective and say, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm making the work. Doesn't need to be this long.
Speaker 2: You learned this before that you made it work that
Speaker 2: was kind of long, too long, so you have the
Speaker 2: tools down to cut it. That's number one I want
Speaker 2: to say about that, and number two about Enemy. How
Speaker 2: how can you only see that piece one time? That's
Speaker 2: why I reacted the way I did, Like what do
Speaker 2: you mean one time? One time? Like I know we
Speaker 2: did that be a lot more.
Speaker 1: Than one time you did.
Speaker 2: But I joined Enemy. I joined phild Anko July two
Speaker 2: thousand and two, and they just premiered it at the
Speaker 2: Joys in May two thousand and two, and it was
Speaker 2: on your REP tape because we had VHS's right, right right,
Speaker 2: because on my REP tape or my REP DVD, one
Speaker 2: of those and I when I say, I them, mofos
Speaker 2: do enemy for the entire summer of two thousand and two,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I am in this company and
Speaker 2: it simply you hit it on is now It's simply
Speaker 2: is quintessential Philadeenko. It's about the physicality. It's about the fierceness.
Speaker 2: It's about the individuality. It's about group cohesive, it's about fearlessness.
Speaker 2: It's about rock solid No if as are what technique?
Speaker 2: What is happening? Like the triples happening? I learned that
Speaker 2: from Chearana Mirr Williams. He said he was talking to
Speaker 2: his company before a performance. He said, there will be
Speaker 2: no if ens or what I said, what he said,
Speaker 2: He looked at them, he said there will be no
Speaker 2: ifs or what And I have taken that. That is,
Speaker 2: but that is Philadelphia. When Philly I was teaching, I
Speaker 2: wasn't teaching in recent years, not recent years. Why I
Speaker 2: say like that recent months, Like it's like, what are
Speaker 2: you saying? Months? String theory, string theory, magnet school. They
Speaker 2: went to high school dance festival and Tracy Vault, who's
Speaker 2: the rehearsal director of Great friend of mine, was like,
Speaker 2: I want you know, I need them to do it.
Speaker 2: Tell me why he piece And I said, okay, you
Speaker 2: know have this piece. I did a piece on some kids,
Speaker 2: like long long time ago. So she took it. But
Speaker 2: she's like, you need to come. They need to like
Speaker 2: you know, you need to come and coach them. Get
Speaker 2: to the point. Tommy. I walked in that room. They
Speaker 2: are dancing, I'm giving notes. I went into this speech.
Speaker 2: I said, the one thing I learned about Philadelphia is
Speaker 2: the Philadelphia pride. When you step into a new arena,
Speaker 2: Philadelphians would be like, it's like we're and we're stepping in,
Speaker 2: We're stepping in, we're coming in, We're coming in hot.
Speaker 2: It's like the pride of that. It's like you're actually
Speaker 2: saying it, Like I have experienced that at philadekos So
Speaker 2: when Sean Lemir did that to his dances, I was like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah. Maybe he used to say stuff like I
Speaker 2: don't care if you gotta do your refa or whatever
Speaker 2: you gotta do, but tomorrow we are dancing like you better.
Speaker 2: It's like it's just there is no other option that
Speaker 2: is Philly. That is like, there is no other way
Speaker 2: but to elevate, and this is what we're doing. And
Speaker 2: I try to get into those kids and these kids
Speaker 2: looking at me and new kids got to Virginia and
Speaker 2: Tracy sent me the video. She said they had so
Speaker 2: much pride to me. And I said, because that's what
Speaker 2: Philadelphia's taught me, to have pride about what we have
Speaker 2: here and who we are and in the ways that
Speaker 2: we do it, you know. And I think that's something
Speaker 2: I hear Jomies Brown stressing a lot now in her
Speaker 2: in her years. It is just like remembering the importance
Speaker 2: of that thing. There's a Philadelphia way of moving This
Speaker 2: a heritage as a Lenias, just a legacy that is
Speaker 2: so powerful that yes, as we are moving on with life,
Speaker 2: She's like, but don't forget that, like really see that
Speaker 2: and bring that along for the ride. And I have
Speaker 2: to say I agree with her.
Speaker 1: It's very true. And it's like I lived in Philadelphia
Speaker 1: my entire life up until six years ago, and I've
Speaker 1: been in Jersey ever since. And it's like, I know,
Speaker 1: I bring Philly with me because like I'll say things
Speaker 1: a certain way, or I'll approach things a certain way,
Speaker 1: you said John earlier.
Speaker 2: I want your listeners to know that saw said John,
Speaker 2: and I didn't react, but I reacted.
Speaker 1: It's just the thing, and it cracks me up that
Speaker 1: white people in Philadelphia. I think that they invented that
Speaker 1: ten fifteen years ago. I was saying John in the
Speaker 1: sixth grade police child. Anyway, I digress. But yeah, it's like,
Speaker 1: I know, I bring my Philly with me wherever I go. Like,
Speaker 1: but don't let someone come out their mouth the wrong way.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, what especially especially the women in Philly. It
Speaker 2: is they are they Philly women, Philly, especially Philly black women.
Speaker 2: They are it is excuse me, run that back. I'm
Speaker 2: standing up. We're having words about it.
Speaker 1: It's not that I didn't hear what you said. I'm
Speaker 1: giving you a chance to correct what you said.
Speaker 2: And I ain't calling nobody in here to help. I
Speaker 2: ain't calling now.
Speaker 1: Nope, you know we're here.
Speaker 2: We're gonna figure it out. Like I there's a lot
Speaker 2: about that that that that that that that grit in
Speaker 2: that bite that I know has made its influence into
Speaker 2: who I am and into my movement that I think
Speaker 2: Philadelphia Black dance is regal and a certain type of sophistication,
Speaker 2: but it can just get real guttor real gutter. But
Speaker 2: you're gonna have that bun on that French twist, and
Speaker 2: it's not gonna get Wold and Benjie. It's gonna get
Speaker 2: like there. And it's rooted in ballet. You know, when
Speaker 2: we really look at the lineage of like Dolores Brown
Speaker 2: and Jomies Brown, Sidney King, Mary and Suje, there is
Speaker 2: a there's a deep root of ballet in the line
Speaker 2: and the form. And I think what JB did with
Speaker 2: it for philadelko esthetic in so she always says she
Speaker 2: wanted to start a ballet company off the bat, that's
Speaker 2: what she thought she should do. But in the same year,
Speaker 2: around that time dth was starting, so she, being a
Speaker 2: terrific business moment, just knew that like, okay, well that's
Speaker 2: not gonna work with them being so close and like
Speaker 2: that they have that thing, so what else can we do?
Speaker 2: And she she's made an aesthetic of a thing. But
Speaker 2: at his root, everybody in this company at Philadeenka must
Speaker 2: be able to create a shape right and have line
Speaker 2: informing you can look like a football player from the
Speaker 2: Green Bay Packers or you can look like you know
Speaker 2: Missy Copeland from a ballet school, but when you put
Speaker 2: them alongside each other, they need to both hit air
Speaker 2: bes Yep. Can you do it great?
Speaker 1: Yep?
Speaker 2: And when she and when she jumps to you, you
Speaker 2: need to catch her. You need to fling her up.
Speaker 2: My first month in this company, she said, Man, if
Speaker 2: you got to go to extra body classes, you need
Speaker 2: to go. She says, because these women they will run
Speaker 2: to you, jump all on your neck, wibble down your back,
Speaker 2: and then say like a blur away and outdance you
Speaker 2: in the cold when and I need you to try
Speaker 2: to keep up with.
Speaker 1: Them literally, and you won't know what happened.
Speaker 2: You won't know will and Noel did that to me
Speaker 2: my first season. I did a trio with that woman
Speaker 2: and we got on stage and I said, this is
Speaker 2: not what you've done on This is not what you
Speaker 2: did in the studio, this is not this is not
Speaker 2: what you was wait, hold on, hold on, and she
Speaker 2: started to dance. She outdanced me that day. I said, okay,
Speaker 2: you won the batle on that one.
Speaker 1: Why how did I end up facing the other way?
Speaker 1: What just happened?
Speaker 2: What just happened? All I know is as we said
Speaker 2: five six seven A and you really win, you really
Speaker 2: now you you took all the notes, you said, Okay,
Speaker 2: got it. But I love well, I love that about dance.
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that I do too. So okay, tell us
Speaker 1: when and where the performance will be taking place. Where
Speaker 1: your work that was commissioned for the Martha Graham Dance
Speaker 1: Company will be will be ocurrect.
Speaker 2: The work will be at pen Life Arts May twenty
Speaker 2: ninth and thirtieth in the Edinburgh Theater. I think it's
Speaker 2: a seven thirty curtain on Friday, two o'clock curtain on Saturdays,
Speaker 2: seven thirty curtain on Saturday night. It is a two
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty and two hundred and fifty anniversary of America,
Speaker 2: but it's the commission is being supported by Art Philly,
Speaker 2: who has a festival around Philadelphia for four weeks in
Speaker 2: May and June to celebrate the celebration of the two
Speaker 2: hundred and fiftieth year of the Decoration of Independence, and
Speaker 2: they are commissioning this piece on Philadenko and Martha Graham
Speaker 2: inside of the Martha Graham presentation at pen Live Arts.
Speaker 2: The work is entitled in Case the fires speak. It
Speaker 2: is in conversation to Martha Graham's American Document, a work
Speaker 2: that she created that centralizes the question of what does
Speaker 2: it mean to be an American? I have a wonderful
Speaker 2: dramater and Gordon who has helped me do some research
Speaker 2: inside of the gram archive. And one of the coolest
Speaker 2: things about American Document is there is no video recording
Speaker 2: of the complete piece. Oh, there's just small video recordings.
Speaker 2: There's reviews, there's pictures. There is a sheet music of
Speaker 2: the opening section score, and that is it. And everything
Speaker 2: that I've done with the piece and my reflection is
Speaker 2: taking small nuggets to then dript off into a new thought.
Speaker 2: Like I don't think I'm trying to recreate anything within
Speaker 2: her work, but I'm interested in saying, well, this is
Speaker 2: the sheet music that you have for a section, Let's
Speaker 2: have a piano player play it, and then my sound
Speaker 2: designer is going to, you know, take it and run
Speaker 2: to another thought with it. So within my work, it
Speaker 2: starts with her original composition, but it moves into Erka Bado,
Speaker 2: It moves into Kendrick Lamar and moves into Rochelle for Real,
Speaker 2: and moves into Nina Simone and move and moves into
Speaker 2: Julius Eastman. And this is all sound designed by my
Speaker 2: incredible sound designer, Uazi Zamani, who is making ways in
Speaker 2: this dance world himself. He's actually getting his doctorate degree
Speaker 2: from Temple University to you. And I have wonderful costumes
Speaker 2: by Anna Elise, who's a long time collaborator with me,
Speaker 2: who's done a lot of costumes for my works for Philadenko.
Speaker 2: I have some amazing dancers from both companies, Philadanka and
Speaker 2: Martha Graham. And we are just going to be living
Speaker 2: on that pen live art stage next Friday and Saturday,
Speaker 2: and we move on to the next and we let
Speaker 2: the work live and breathe, and we we are not
Speaker 2: trying to tell a narrative per se, but it is
Speaker 2: a conversation, and I felt that it was important to
Speaker 2: have that conversation as honest and as honest as possible,
Speaker 2: especially during the times that we're living in, right. You know,
Speaker 2: we started this piece last June twenty twenty five in
Speaker 2: the summer, and you know, Trump was just really getting
Speaker 2: things gone with Ice and I had a lot of
Speaker 2: conversations about immigration, a lot of conversations about what if
Speaker 2: you know, what else would change in war and the
Speaker 2: sense of feeling like this land, who is this land
Speaker 2: made for? Is this land made for me or for you?
Speaker 2: Or and what is that sense of feeling of wanting
Speaker 2: to belong or do you need to belong? I know
Speaker 2: I spoke a lot about in the work. I have
Speaker 2: a particular dancer who lifts up a central black female character,
Speaker 2: and we talk a lot about, like, you know, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of conversations on how like, you know, democracy
Speaker 2: is always saved by black women, but we never really
Speaker 2: lift them up, so we talk about that. I also
Speaker 2: have this thing I'm loving. It feels a bit like
Speaker 2: love Craft love Craft Country are sinners kind of like
Speaker 2: horrific cinematicness inside of the staging.
Speaker 1: Which is on brand for you, which I did, you know, and.
Speaker 2: Some you know, my dramat told me. He was like,
Speaker 2: he was just like, did you watch love Crap Country?
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, you didn't.
Speaker 2: He's like this, I did not. I don't. I don't
Speaker 2: like blood Yall's m I don't like blood and they
Speaker 2: like blood and gariness.
Speaker 1: Fair and there is definitely there is definitely that as
Speaker 1: part of the series. However, the intellectual in you the
Speaker 1: black intellectual and you specifically would really appreciate.
Speaker 2: It's how you say that, and I see that, and
Speaker 2: I've read so many articles about it. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: Lovecraft Country centers and this is not really on brand,
Speaker 2: but on brand orange is the new Black. I have
Speaker 2: done so many deep dives about the things, but I
Speaker 2: never could just say, Okay, let's watch it. I watched
Speaker 2: Those Who See Us that summer it came out, and
Speaker 2: that was really that was just really hard. Yeah, things
Speaker 2: like that stay with me. I process it. I think
Speaker 2: about people who I may know who live through that
Speaker 2: time or live through a type a certain type of situation,
Speaker 2: and it just becomes kind of like HD three D
Speaker 2: with me. So it takes me a thing. But I
Speaker 2: am going to try to watch Lovecraft Country because everyone
Speaker 2: says how brilliant.
Speaker 1: It really really is, and and there's someone took the
Speaker 1: time two put together a syllabus for the show I have.
Speaker 1: I have it in a Google drive. I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: look for it because I've been meaning to revisit it.
Speaker 1: And it's like all the poetry and artwork and novels,
Speaker 1: and it's all the different references in the polls and
Speaker 1: they just compiled it and they broke it up to
Speaker 1: like this corresponds to this episode. You have to send
Speaker 1: that it's really yan tough and you would appreciate it.
Speaker 1: It does get a little bloody and gory in space,
Speaker 1: as it just does, but it's I've never seen anything
Speaker 1: like it before since.
Speaker 2: But back to the work, when you say that too,
Speaker 2: makes me say, like, you know, that is important for
Speaker 2: me to share. Like the work I didn't want. I
Speaker 2: do not want the work to be pretty right, and
Speaker 2: the work is not nasty, but the work is to
Speaker 2: have a certain type of intensity and complexity and the
Speaker 2: ankst and an aggression, and that is something too I
Speaker 2: wanted to lean more into because you know, we're in
Speaker 2: collaboration with Martha Graham and you know she that dramaticism
Speaker 2: that they can just project in their bodies and in space.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just something that I really wanted to
Speaker 2: play with.
Speaker 1: And do you have does the company have a lot
Speaker 1: of black dancers at this point or any so?
Speaker 2: I am using their their African American female Meghan King.
Speaker 2: And last thing I want to say, how I had
Speaker 2: to cast them because they've been on they were on
Speaker 2: tour and I was busy. There was never a moment
Speaker 2: where I could go into the Graham studio and like
Speaker 2: do like an audition right right, And how how I
Speaker 2: was brought in for the project, It was like, well,
Speaker 2: we need to know who he wants to use because
Speaker 2: the first residency we had, the four gram Dances had
Speaker 2: to come to Philly, so they needed to know at
Speaker 2: a very crunch time. So I had to do research
Speaker 2: online and who they had. But luckily the day I
Speaker 2: went to New York at the very beginning to do
Speaker 2: to start research do the archives, they were in a
Speaker 2: rehearsal and Megan King is one of the African American
Speaker 2: women is someone I had been watching from the distance.
Speaker 2: She was in Alien two, she went to the Alien
Speaker 2: Fordham Program, and you know, she just would be in
Speaker 2: the blogs and articles and interviews and you know, she
Speaker 2: was just one of their top students. So I was
Speaker 2: really following her. But I never saw her dance. And
Speaker 2: I went to this rehearsal and they she had I
Speaker 2: want to say, like a two minute cameo at best,
Speaker 2: I think it was smaller than that. And this half
Speaker 2: forgot on this floor and wore it out. And I
Speaker 2: looked at Janet, I said, I don't know who I'm casting.
Speaker 2: I said, but she gotta be here. You gotta be his,
Speaker 2: So I have her Jaw. I think John's. I can't
Speaker 2: think of John's last name. I don't want to mess
Speaker 2: it up. Jah is Dominican Dominican Republic. And then I
Speaker 2: have Antonio Antonio's Italian and Antonio. I saw Antonio dance eventually,
Speaker 2: but I originally was trying to use I think you
Speaker 2: remember him Richard, who used to be in that Richard's.
Speaker 2: I can't think. I don't know no one's last name
Speaker 2: right now. Don't let me. I knew Richard, and I
Speaker 2: said I want to use Richard in some kind of way.
Speaker 2: Richard got injured, and Janet emailed me. She said, well,
Speaker 2: you came to a performance and I think you saw Antonio.
Speaker 2: I think Antonio would be really great for the project.
Speaker 2: And I said, sure, I'll trust your opinion, and Antonio
Speaker 2: is amazing. And then last, but not least, I'm using
Speaker 2: Zachary who's in Graham. And I chose Zachary because Zachary
Speaker 2: trained with my friend Alicia Graff at Juilliard and I
Speaker 2: was like, I was like, you know, you you've had
Speaker 2: some contemporary I know if you was in that regime,
Speaker 2: we can do this. And when I tell you, Charles,
Speaker 2: it's been a match made in heaven. I would not
Speaker 2: suggest any choreographer to cast a work in that fast,
Speaker 2: but I just believe that it was just destiny, and
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to walk into the destiny of the work.
Speaker 2: And they've been with me, They've been you know, they
Speaker 2: are an AGMA company, they have a lot of union rules.
Speaker 2: They are the oldest American modern dance company, and they
Speaker 2: have been around the world and back this year. But
Speaker 2: when I tell you, they are some of the most
Speaker 2: humble people that I have worked with, so giving, so generous,
Speaker 2: so with the themes, and I feel that they have
Speaker 2: made lifelong bonds with the Danko dancers, and all nine
Speaker 2: dancers are in the room. They just they feel like
Speaker 2: one company, one band of groups. And I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that to just say it. It's really honest, and I
Speaker 2: really want people to know that I don't say things
Speaker 2: like this. I'm not really the cheesy girl it's like.
Speaker 1: But I believe that because it's a unique experience that
Speaker 1: no one else but those individuals, those nine individuals will have.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that, And I asked about
Speaker 1: if they had any black dances, only because with a
Speaker 1: company like Martha Graham, you know, you're the dancers are
Speaker 1: going to be from literally anywhere in the world, everywhere,
Speaker 1: and so it's like at the moment that you're there,
Speaker 1: the grouping could be who knows. So I was just curious, that's.
Speaker 2: All, you know. You know, Mary Mary Hinkston, who is
Speaker 2: a Philadelphia, a Philadelphia native, makes she rest in peace
Speaker 2: and she danes Martha Graham, she was African American and
Speaker 2: she's one of their like long like prima legendary dances.
Speaker 2: But I was recently watching the documentary that Martha Graham
Speaker 2: Dank Company has on PBA, and you know, they spoke
Speaker 2: very freely that Martha has always been very integrated. You know,
Speaker 2: year ago Mary Hingston Peter London during the time of
Speaker 2: Hitler a lot of Jewish dancers with her company, and
Speaker 2: she got invited to the Berlin Olympics and she turned
Speaker 2: it down. And like right now, I looking at their roster,
Speaker 2: they are a really eclectic, diverse bunch of you know,
Speaker 2: a group of people.
Speaker 1: But you know, been.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, I totally agree. I do enjoy going into
Speaker 2: spaces that though we're built for white people and finding
Speaker 2: the people of color and bringing them along for the ride.
Speaker 2: That's just something, you know. I don't try to do
Speaker 2: it as a political statement. I just really I've been
Speaker 2: in productions in schools where you know, I was the
Speaker 2: minority and I'm there for a special thing, and I'm
Speaker 2: special and I'm gifted, but I felt a little unseen,
Speaker 2: right So, you know, I do. If I'm working with
Speaker 2: the Valley Company and there's a black woman, I want
Speaker 2: to I want her in the room, you know, I
Speaker 2: want I want to attempt the best to put to
Speaker 2: put her in the room with me. Let's get this going.
Speaker 2: And I knew with American document Martha was coming from
Speaker 2: her lands of her America. And the first thing I
Speaker 2: said to Tanya was, who's the curator for our Philly?
Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, I'm a black queer male
Speaker 2: from South central Los Angeles now living in West Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: My my vision of America is totally different, My experience
Speaker 2: in America is totally different. And I knew I wanted
Speaker 2: people in the room who could speak to that, right,
Speaker 2: you know. So it's not about a segregation, but it's about,
Speaker 2: you know, us having a full scope of opinions and thoughts,
Speaker 2: so you know, we have all the races in the room.
Speaker 2: And it was also important because just to give you
Speaker 2: more context, the pieces being commissioned by our Philly but
Speaker 2: now both individual companies will have individual rights to the work.
Speaker 2: It was important for me to make a work that
Speaker 2: can live in the repertory repertories of both companies individually.
Speaker 2: So if Janet wants to take the piece for just Graham,
Speaker 2: that eight Grams can do the work and the same
Speaker 2: thing can happen for Philadenko. It's not yes, the the Brava,
Speaker 2: the Genesi, all the extra seasoning as the mean. The
Speaker 2: mean would show you is the fact that these two
Speaker 2: companies come together. But I wanted to make a work
Speaker 2: that can live individually. So it was important that I
Speaker 2: have all the bodies, all the different opinions, and all
Speaker 2: the different scenarios and races I didn't want to say race,
Speaker 2: but in the room to really make this work.
Speaker 1: And now more than ever that this is a wonderful
Speaker 1: conversation to be having for the great like the Graham
Speaker 1: Company and Danko. But I'm thinking like the Graham Company
Speaker 1: like you have all these different people coming from all
Speaker 1: around the world, including the United States, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: there's folks that are here on visas. So that's another
Speaker 1: conversation that, Yeah, it's this is this is a moment man.
Speaker 1: And also also I just had a flash forward when
Speaker 1: you said both companies have the rights to the work.
Speaker 1: I just picture you're going, yeah, so I gotta be
Speaker 1: in Philly this weekend to work with Thankle, and then
Speaker 1: I gotta go to Meeka Notes to clean up my
Speaker 1: piece on on Gram and then.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was an interesting It was so like
Speaker 2: the negotiation. The negotiation was so like what does that
Speaker 2: look like? You know, for more context, you get you
Speaker 2: get commissioned as a choreographer. Most contracts are the company
Speaker 2: has to work for three years, and two of the
Speaker 2: years is exclusive and the last year it is non exclusive.
Speaker 2: So that means if Charles has a company and you
Speaker 2: commission me Charles Dance Theater for two years, the piece
Speaker 2: you have by me, no one else can perform is yours, right,
Speaker 2: and then in that third year, if Ballet Black company
Speaker 2: over here us to buy my piece, then they can
Speaker 2: buy it and then they can do it simultaneously. And
Speaker 2: it was it was like, it was like what does
Speaker 2: this look like? How? How? How is this negotiated? And
Speaker 2: when that was being done, that's now that was exciting.
Speaker 2: I was like, that's exciting. I said, we can, we can,
Speaker 2: we can, you can coordinate that if y'all want to
Speaker 2: do it here and they want to do it there,
Speaker 2: and then y'all want me somewhere somewhere else to do
Speaker 2: it somewhere. That is so cool like that that that
Speaker 2: stuff like that is where I kind of squealed.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. You know that is so beautiful. I'm so
Speaker 1: proud of you. I'm so excited. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: Martha and I are going to go see this show
Speaker 1: and we are going You're going to probably hear me
Speaker 1: in the audience. Yes, yes, yes, I'm that person. Obviously.
Speaker 1: I could sit and talk with you all day. This
Speaker 1: was this was a key.
Speaker 2: I needed this.
Speaker 1: I needed this, this conversation.
Speaker 2: I needed this too because I needed to be reminded
Speaker 2: of why being in Philly is so important to me
Speaker 2: and my work. I need I needed to I needed
Speaker 2: to be reminded of that.
Speaker 1: I'm glad I could help tell me why Heed Evans
Speaker 1: it has been an extreme pleasure having you here with
Speaker 1: us at the Full Circle table. And I know this
Speaker 1: ain't the last time we're going to sit in chat.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, we got to do this more more.
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, and we will. But I want
Speaker 1: to thank you so much for for for sharing your
Speaker 1: time and energy with us today.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. You have
Speaker 2: a wonderful day, sir, you too.
Speaker 4: Dig Full Circle is a Never Scured Productions podcast hosted
Speaker 4: by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, Produced and edited
Speaker 4: by Never Scurred Executive Produced by Charles.
Speaker 1: Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal. Our theme in music is
Speaker 1: by the jingle Berries. All names, pictures, music, audio, and
Speaker 1: video clips are registered trademarks and or copyrights of their
Speaker 1: respective copyright holders.