WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:18.320 Coming to you from the dining room table at East 2 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:22.519 Barbary Lane. Welcome to another special episode a Full Circle 3 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:26.839 the Podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr. And 4 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:31.239 I am so excited to be sitting with our guest today. 5 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.520 Besides being a friend of the pod, he is a 6 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:41.200 friend in real life. He is a ridiculously talented choreographer 7 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:47.399 and art maker and educator and scholar and all around 8 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:53.000 bad bitch. Tommy Wyheed Evans is in the house. 9 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:57.560 Hello, sir, Hello, I need to say that one. 10 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:05.879 It will always be. I am fabulous. How are you? 11 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:10.159 I'm fab to thank you for those beautiful words. You know. 12 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:14.040 We're just out here trying to live life to the fullest, 13 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:15.920 make some art, and eat some chicken. 14 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:19.959 Hey, what more can you ask for besides a check 15 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:21.040 for a million dollars? 16 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:25.319 I would love that, Actually I really would, because I'm 17 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:26.959 trying to go on vacation this summer. 18 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:31.239 Right What was what was that? That means? I'm not 19 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:33.480 saying money can buy happiness. I'm just saying all my 20 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:36.439 problems could be solved by three hundred thousand dollars right now? 21 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:44.280 Yes, yes, yes, So. 22 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:49.359 You are like straight up one of my favorite choreographers. 23 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:54.840 I just want to pause and say insert no, really, 24 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:59.680 because you know, as this particular mind getting ready for 25 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:01.519 the mission that I'm sure we're going to talk about 26 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:07.480 with Martha Graham, there has been three writers and now 27 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:11.719 you who have begun the conversation in that regard. And 28 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:15.599 you know, I'm not originally from Philadelphia. You know, I'm 29 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:18.199 from Los Angeles and I moved here in two thousand 30 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:22.479 and two, and I don't know, I just feel like Philly 31 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:26.199 is just my home. It's just it's my peoples. And 32 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:29.639 the fact that all you all have just like supported 33 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:33.479 me in such a way and have like lifted me 34 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:36.479 and my work and what I'm doing up, it just 35 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:38.439 really means a lot. So you say something like that, 36 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:43.159 just really like that just me. It's just true. 37 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.520 Like I was trying to think this morning, when did 38 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:53.080 we meet me? And the earliest time that I can 39 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:56.800 remember encountering you, So this might not be when we met. 40 00:02:56.840 --> 00:03:00.280 This is the earliest time I can remember is think 41 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:04.360 back in the back back it was Brian Mangenie's Ballet 42 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:08.039 Boys showcase. Do you remember this at the performance garage? 43 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:12.080 This is like one point zero performance garage. They didn't 44 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:16.599 have the renovation. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, it 45 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:17.479 was a mixed build. 46 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:21.080 My wonderful picture came from him that I used forever 47 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:22.840 and I can't use no more because my body don't 48 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:23.240 look like that. 49 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:29.599 It's like I could use a I but then I'd 50 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:30.039 be lying. 51 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:35.120 But it's one of my favorite pictures. Yes, one of 52 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:37.719 my favorite pictures, one of my favorite pictures. 53 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:41.159 Yes, we're going to say that you are the best 54 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:43.639 thing that came out of that because at the time 55 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:48.240 I had a solo in that show and it was 56 00:03:48.280 --> 00:03:51.439 set on my ex and well, I mean the piece 57 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:52.159 was fiers. 58 00:03:55.159 --> 00:04:03.560 Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, but I. 59 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.199 Think that also, yeah, that might have been. Yeah, that 60 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:09.719 would have been when I was introduced to your work. 61 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:16.439 And I just remember, first of all, it was all 62 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:22.759 black men, which was beautiful and just your movement style. 63 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:28.240 It was highly technical and athletic, but there were also 64 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:33.000 these subtle touches and those are the things just made 65 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:38.279 me go, m like the thing that sticks out to 66 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:40.519 me because I remember telling people about it, there was 67 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:45.720 this join Tony Tony Rhoades did it, I remember very 68 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.839 very clearly, and he like, uh, he did this combination 69 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:53.000 onto the stage and then he like he slowly reached 70 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:57.120 up to the sky and then just released with this sigh, 71 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:00.600 and that took me out. 72 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:02.920 You know. 73 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:05.160 It's like those are the things that get made. 74 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:10.680 Yes, yes, yes, it's humanity. You know. We want we want. 75 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:13.480 I know for me and my work, I want people 76 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:19.480 to have an experience, to see themselves, but to ultimately 77 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:24.720 feel something. And I think that deeply comes from my 78 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:30.959 background in church. You know that Black Church of God 79 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:34.399 in Christ, Pentecostal church, not not not the one that's polite, 80 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:36.519 but the one that gets a little dirty and messy 81 00:05:37.079 --> 00:05:41.639 and little guttural not mess dirty, but your guttural. Because 82 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:43.839 I find that, like you know, and we experience that 83 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:46.439 a lot of times, like with singers period, just some 84 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:52.000 good pay La Belle, Fantasia, Jazz and Sullivan, Like sometimes 85 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:57.399 they're not even saying anything right, but you are, you 86 00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:00.720 are understanding, you are connecting, you are feeling they are 87 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:05.120 saying and doing something that you are relating to in 88 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:09.439 your body in that moment. And I like that with dance, 89 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:13.040 like the fact that sometimes one of my favorite dancers 90 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:17.920 is Renee Robinson who was in Alvin Ailey and Renee 91 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:22.000 can just simply walk across the stage in the back 92 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:28.199 and something so captivating you know, drew you in to 93 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:32.959 watch her. But something about that was reflective to you. 94 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:36.839 I can't describe it. Something you felt it in your body. 95 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:41.399 You understood it. So I adore that you felt that moment, 96 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:45.439 because that's exactly what I try to do with choreography. 97 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:50.439 You know, it's not just about showcasing this dancer's talent 98 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.199 in a way that you, as an audience member can say, 99 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:58.480 I can never do that, but it's that you feel 100 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:01.879 that it really relates to you and in your life 101 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.000 and in your relationships and your walk, like something is 102 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:05.759 there for you. 103 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:10.079 Yes, yeah, that's subtlety. I'm the right audience member for that, because, 104 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:14.560 like I notice, when I go see things, the things 105 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:16.560 that make me go yes as opposed to the things 106 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:20.160 that make other people go yes. Because I remember it 107 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:25.720 was the IABD Gala. Oh god, this would have been 108 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.560 two This would have had to have been two thousand 109 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:29.759 and nine. 110 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:32.120 In Philly. 111 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:40.800 Yes, okay, okay, okay, that makes sense. Okay. And I'm 112 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:44.879 up in the balcony and you know, there's like some 113 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.959 young dancers to my left, and you know, all the 114 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:53.160 fears twirl leg leg things and they're going yes. And 115 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:56.439 I remember it was Camille Brown and she was doing 116 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:00.360 this solo and like she hit this fears come Nation. 117 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:02.519 But what got me was like she rolled to the 118 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:04.279 floor and then came to a dead stop, look at 119 00:08:04.279 --> 00:08:07.680 the audience and like flicked her brown. That is what 120 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:10.279 made me go yes. That's the kind of thing that 121 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:11.839 sends me yes. 122 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:15.439 Yes. I love when I talk when I'm in rehearsals 123 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:19.759 or in process, not rehearsal, in process. I share with 124 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:23.519 dances i'm working with. I'm more so interested with the 125 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:27.720 in between than the big things, the jets a, the 126 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:31.560 period with the Arabas to tell that's the big things, Great, 127 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:36.559 you're going to do that. I'm interested in you investigating 128 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:41.440 and nurturing and finding nuance in the in between because 129 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:44.679 that's what we see and what we feel when you 130 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:50.480 grab that partner's hand or touched their shoulder or caress 131 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:56.120 their face. That's humanity. Everyone sees a situation that they've 132 00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:00.279 been in, whether it's love or hate. You know, I 133 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:04.240 in my most recent piece I did on Philadeenka, I 134 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:09.000 think last year twenty twenty five spring, Yes, promise me 135 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:16.159 you won't call. At the end, there's this duet and 136 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:20.720 the male identifying dancer of the duet just simply as 137 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:25.960 she's reaching for him, he just ducks under her arms 138 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:29.759 and walks away, and she's there, like, you know, left 139 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:35.240 alone in the whole audience for the entire weekend Friday, Saturday, 140 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.840 and Sunday all just gass. It was like it was 141 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:41.639 a moment that they felt, but it was also a 142 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:43.200 moment that they probably went through. 143 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:49.960 And we're not getting that clean catharsis and resolution that 144 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:52.879 you felt like you were going to get. 145 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:57.399 Yeah, yeah, and it's inside of the she did an 146 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:00.759 arabas he did a time dude, right, so amazed. But 147 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:05.360 it's like when you're able to create that juxtaposition in choreography, 148 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:08.399 that's you know what Camille did in that solo. It's 149 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:11.480 just a position like the kids are sitting there looking 150 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:13.600 at how she's swirling up, but then you're sitting there 151 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:17.080 looking at her subtlety, and it's like you're getting this. Now, 152 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:21.679 you're getting this, which I believe happens in Black Densha. 153 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:31.240 You're getting this well rounded experience that transcends paths. You know, 154 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:34.759 it goes somewhere else. It just that's how that's the 155 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:38.159 ability that we have in our blackness with our art. 156 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:41.879 We're able when we listen to Aretha Franklin, Yeah, she's 157 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:48.039 she's hitting C sharps and modulations and bending notes and 158 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:52.240 doing all the things that we study. But then she's moaning, 159 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.000 and then you're just feeling emotions and you're connecting to 160 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.960 soul and depth. And I love that about black people 161 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:00.200 that we are able to do that. 162 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:06.720 Yeah. And it's like, you know, the the high leg, 163 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:13.759 the multiple turns, that's the vocabulary, but it's like are 164 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:17.799 you saying something? Are you just speaking words? That's what 165 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:19.440 it comes down to, you know what I mean? 166 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:22.720 And Yeah, I dance for many years with Jomies Brown 167 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.039 and she will always say that what are you trying 168 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.879 to say? And Miss Debaschase six, the former rest director 169 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:32.840 who's now with the Ancestors, will always say that, but 170 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:36.720 what are you trying to say? Right? Tell a story? Yes, 171 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:38.039 I totally agree with you. 172 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:41.200 Yeah, because like you know, after a while, you know, 173 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:43.759 you can only kick your face, but so many times 174 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.960 before it stops being exciting unless you got something behind it. 175 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:50.720 Yes, and you know something I want Younger dances to 176 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:53.120 also know so that you know, as I say this 177 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:55.000 next thing, because I used to be able to kick 178 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:58.960 my face and do the things. It is also but 179 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:01.039 you just get to age, you don't even want to 180 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:03.120 do that all the time, or you don't want to 181 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:07.039 always have to just like okay, yes, and I will 182 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:10.159 always say you hit an age and dance, especially when 183 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:15.360 you're in a company where okay, there's a couple of 184 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:17.320 things that happen. You get into a company, you just 185 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.320 want to get cast it, you want to get out there, 186 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:24.559 and you're particularly younger. Then you get into your later 187 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:27.840 twenties where like, okay, now it's all coming together. You're 188 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:35.000 understanding your body, You're you have this experience under your belt, 189 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:39.039 you be starting to be regarded, you're dependable. It's the boom. 190 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:44.639 You're out there even more. Then comes those early thirties, 191 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:49.960 and this is where it gets interesting because one it 192 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:55.440 always don't feel good. Two, now there's your two generations 193 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:59.639 away from the incoming. So now there's a whole new energy. 194 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:02.840 And now you got these these these dancers who want 195 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:05.440 to just kick and kick and kick and can do it. 196 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.399 And you are now in the body that's like I've 197 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:11.600 done that, But now I really feel how it's feeling 198 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:13.320 to get off this tour bus and get back into 199 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:19.120 rehearsal the next day and say it again, pull people 200 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:21.120 out in the back. And then you also don't have 201 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.320 to prove in that same way, like you don't have 202 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:25.240 to you know, when you're twenty six, get off the 203 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:30.399 tour bucks and Alonzo King is in the studio and 204 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.720 you and that show the night before only did one ballet. 205 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.240 You're going to get into that rehearsal with King. You're 206 00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:38.879 going to kick some butt because you are trying to 207 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:41.279 get into the ballet. But when you're in your early thirties, 208 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.799 you're like, well, Lonzo King already knows me, and I've 209 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:47.919 just did for ballets the night before. Give me a second. 210 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:50.960 And going back to the thing what you're saying, I 211 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:54.639 just believe that when I turned thirty, I begin to understand, Okay, 212 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.120 my body is still capable, but that is just I 213 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.639 just don't want to continuously do that just all the 214 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:04.720 time in that way. I need something else. I need 215 00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:08.159 to explore this moment. I need to find newness. So 216 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:11.120 maybe that regard, maybe that maybe that becomes a situation 217 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:13.960 where I'm not lifting my leg up as high, or 218 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:17.120 I'm playing with the idea of Porto bra I'm investigating 219 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.480 through this piece in a in a less visceral way. 220 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:23.840 You know, I'm finding other nuances. You know, I'm you know, 221 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:29.000 I'm You have to put yourself in in a in 222 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:32.399 a situation where it's not always just that, because it's 223 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.159 not always that I'm going to get older and it's 224 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:38.840 not going to happen. It's just I'm gonna get older. 225 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:40.759 I'm gonna realize that I don't always have to do that. 226 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:43.240 I don't always when I'm in a relationship, have to 227 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:47.039 scream at my partner. We can simply have a conversation 228 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:50.799 and sometimes listen to me. Young people, sometimes when you 229 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:53.519 whisper it and you simply just walk away, that do 230 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:57.559 that does more damage then you're screaming down the street 231 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.600 banging on his car. I may have to in my life. 232 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:02.960 But you know, we're talking about that another podcast. 233 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:07.960 I don't know what you're talking about, but you just. 234 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.399 Learned backs back to dance. You just learned that, like 235 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:17.799 it becomes about those in betweens and those subtleties, and 236 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:23.000 that that actually is what carries you through. It makes 237 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:26.000 you an artist. 238 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:31.600 That part yes, and you are definitely that, and you 239 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:35.759 have been such an artist. I'm going I'm going to 240 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:38.919 jump to the lead now, you have become such an 241 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:44.399 artist through your time with Philadenko and with your company 242 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:49.399 and as a solo performer, that you have been commissioned 243 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:53.399 to create a work on none of them than the 244 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:56.039 Martha Graham Dance Company. 245 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:01.120 Heller hellar such a blessing, so exciting. 246 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.559 What was that announced? What did that announcement feel like? 247 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:11.639 So it was it was a bit surreal. I was 248 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:14.480 on a call. I was actually doing a call with 249 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:22.080 the Art Philly team and Philadenko's staff, and they were 250 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:27.080 just explaining what they would want this collaboration between Philadenko 251 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:31.919 and Martha Graham to be, and how it's tying into 252 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:36.080 the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of America, and this 253 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:48.960 idea that there be a choreographer from Philly who can 254 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:54.559 ultimately give the Martha Graham Dance Company of sort of 255 00:16:54.639 --> 00:17:01.480 like Philadelphia experience, kind of like welcoming like us, like 256 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:04.400 like them coming over and like we just having like 257 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:08.599 this party with them in art and on our turfs. 258 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:13.519 I'm not really describing it in the best way, and 259 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:16.920 some kind of way I guess through hearing that Jeannmies 260 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:21.240 Brown was just like, oh, that should be Tommy, and 261 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:25.200 they were like, oh okay. So then they brought it 262 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:29.440 back to Janet Ilber, who is the artist director of 263 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:36.640 Martha Graham. And she's someone I've been lightly emailing my 264 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:41.079 work too, just in the shuffle of like I'm a koreacifer, 265 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.839 look at my work. So some kind of way, I 266 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:47.759 think she took a deeper look into my work and 267 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:51.400 was like, yes, this would be a nice idea. So 268 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.799 then our Philly came to me, the people from our Philly, 269 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:58.160 and so all right. So the idea is to use 270 00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:03.319 the archive of Martha Graham's American document piece that she 271 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:06.680 choreographed I think in nineteen thirty eight. I don't want 272 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:08.400 to really give a nineteen thirty eight. I think it's 273 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:09.240 nineteen thirty eight. 274 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:12.240 Though still roundabout. 275 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.319 And it's around it, it's around a time. And so 276 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.640 the idea because a lot of what in my opinion 277 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:24.400 of Martha Graham's dance companies, newer works, it's always in 278 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:28.400 conversation some kind of way to Martha in her work, 279 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:34.279 whether you know, said choreographers following a picture or a 280 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:39.079 quote or a music score that was unfinished or something, 281 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:42.319 in my opinion says like it speaks back to Martha, 282 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.359 which makes this was a way, which was a way 283 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:48.119 that this commission speaks back to Martha. Was like, well, 284 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:51.400 you know, she does this piece called American Document. It's celebrating, 285 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:53.599 it asks the question of what does it mean to 286 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.400 be an American? And her source material was the Decoration 287 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:03.920 of Independence and other And so when I was brought that, 288 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:08.440 I said, well, number one, I want to be just 289 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:13.400 in conversation with her. And something I told the Dances 290 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:16.000 in process recently, I said, it's it's almost like that 291 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:19.000 that YouTube clip if you ever seen it of Nikki 292 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:27.799 Giovanni and James Baldwin Ago. So yes, you know, just 293 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:32.319 two people sitting and having a conversation and posing their ideas. 294 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:37.359 And you know, that's how I begin to think of 295 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:39.519 the framing of the word. But to go back to it, 296 00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:44.440 when it really started to take off, I had an 297 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:46.759 old ship moment. I was like, oh shit, like this 298 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:50.160 is big, this is like and I was like, this 299 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:53.119 is big. I didn't I didn't expect it. It wasn't 300 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:58.200 on my docket. I think in previous seasons, I you know, 301 00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:01.960 you talk to people, you're getting interests, You're like, let's 302 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:05.039 keep you know, just keep showing me your work. It's 303 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.680 such a it's a song and dance that I simply 304 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.960 got on a zoom call because JB's like, I need 305 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:13.200 to get on a zoom call with me today, and 306 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:16.119 I said, okay, I got on, and thinking I was 307 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:19.519 gonna be a liaison in a different capacity, she just 308 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:25.920 suggested my name and I said, oh, let's go. It's 309 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.319 go time. And I think it's just been such an 310 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:31.519 exciting process. I'm really proud of the work. I'm really 311 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:36.519 excited about the work, and it's go time. Let's let's 312 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:36.920 do it. 313 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:42.599 I was so thrilled when I saw your name on 314 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:48.119 the press release, and well, two things went across my mind. 315 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:56.000 One was work. The other one was like, oh because 316 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:58.079 when we went and saw Martha and I went and 317 00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:05.599 saw Rennie Harris's most recent residency work and oh, we 318 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.039 can talk about it. And there was that big installation 319 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.440 dedicated to Philadenko and I was like, oh, that's cool, 320 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:16.160 Well what's that doing here? And then that two and 321 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.960 two made four and I was like oh they're doing 322 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:22.759 oh and then oh and then he's oh, yeah, I 323 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:28.319 got so excited and that I was immediately like, first 324 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.480 of all, we need to have him on the show 325 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:40.240 because I need to talk about this to someone besides myself, Like, 326 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.599 I am so proud of you, and it just makes sense. 327 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:43.680 It just makes sense to me. 328 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:48.599 Just I am so I thank you so much for that. Yeah, 329 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.880 to be at his show, even he said, Rennie, that 330 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.839 is sorry. Rennie was like, you're just gonna stand over 331 00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:59.640 here and act like everything is normal. And meanwhile, like 332 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:03.400 you're you're and the process to this work you're doing 333 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:05.559 is right over here, and that's you know, I just 334 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:09.160 want chicken. I just want some chicken. You know, I'm 335 00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:11.759 just here to make some dances and get some some chicken. 336 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.759 But it keeps like, I don't know, I think I 337 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:20.000 suppress it, like, oh, it's a simple commission, and every. 338 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.799 Because you want to be humble. You don't want to like, 339 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:26.000 you know, I want to be like. 340 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.319 I'm out here making this valet. Everyone everyone stand up. No, 341 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:32.480 you don't want to do that. But you also it's 342 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:34.640 it's not weird, that's that's not the word I want 343 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.960 to use. But like It is interesting when your dreams 344 00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:41.480 start to come true in the regards of how the 345 00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:48.039 opportunities are coming through and how you desperately want to 346 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:53.160 stay normal, like you want it to be like just 347 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:56.079 another you know. I started making works a long time 348 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:01.680 ago for like Elli on Dance Theater Philadelphia Treasure, And 349 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.640 my biggest thing on days they were premiering a new 350 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:07.000 piece was I was eating skills in the back of 351 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:13.200 the house and I still want to be that Tommy, Like, 352 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:16.000 I just want to walk into the theater see the piece. 353 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:20.880 And I think when I saw the installation exhibit, I 354 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:24.119 was like, Okay, this is a big deal. This is 355 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.920 a big deal. This is a big deal. But okay, 356 00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:36.680 just concentrate on making the work, looking at its remaining calm, 357 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.359 making sure your point of view is clear. But I'm 358 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:44.759 pretty sure the night before May twenty eight, I'm gona 359 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.240 probably be somewhere like willing. 360 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:51.119 You've got to give yourself that moment. You've got to 361 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:55.440 if you haven't already, come on now, just even if 362 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:57.680 it's just like standing in the middle of the room, 363 00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.440 just throw your head back in screen. I am mirroring 364 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:04.599 a work on the Martha Graham Dance company, bitch. 365 00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:07.359 You got it. You gotta get through the tech like 366 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:09.839 you gotta get that's my thing. You always you gotta 367 00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:11.400 get through the tech. When you get to the tech 368 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.759 and it's like okay, the ideas, the costumes, it's boom. 369 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:21.480 That's when you can say, for then you got it. 370 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:25.839 You just that's I think it's not really about jinxing. 371 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:30.119 I think that's just when maybe subconsciously, I can allow 372 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:34.640 myself to feel okay, okay. You know, like when I 373 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:39.960 got to Googleheim. That was a very exciting moment, like 374 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:43.680 to see to receive an email and to for to 375 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:48.359 say the words of congratulations, you will be getting this award. 376 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:50.279 The only thing you gotta wait on is these people 377 00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:52.599 are going to vote on it. The board of trustees 378 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:55.519 put the panel already got your name on this list 379 00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:59.640 and you go, babes, that was like out and for 380 00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:02.920 that moment, I can trust it. But right now with 381 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:06.079 dances you put on stage and the art and you notice, 382 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:09.880 as a creator, it's like you gotta make sure it 383 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:13.799 gets rolling right then you feel it, then I might 384 00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:17.160 I think I'll feel that excitement, But even then you 385 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:22.839 might not see me after the show. That's a horror podcast. 386 00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:27.799 Fair because like I imagine, you know, it's got to 387 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:35.279 feel both surreal and correct. You know, surreal because you 388 00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:39.880 know how many individuals walk in the planet or that 389 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.119 have walked the planet can say I was commissioned to 390 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:46.119 create a work in the Martha Graham Dance Company like 391 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:49.720 that is like a unique experience that not a lot 392 00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:54.640 of people get. Right, okay, fears, But at the same time, 393 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:59.440 you have been working towards this moment, Like this moment 394 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.319 just makes sense in the trajectory of how you've been 395 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:07.799 leading your life and putting out your work and investing 396 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.720 in yourself and investing in your art, like this just 397 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:13.519 makes sense. At least it does to me, so I 398 00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:14.240 hope it does to you. 399 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:22.200 Very grateful it makes you know, just I think when 400 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:25.559 you start making work and you start getting opportunities, you 401 00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:30.799