Speaker 1: I had this like nice thing this weekend though, where well,
Speaker 1: it's kind of sad, right because in my Bockle flats,
Speaker 1: like we're we're all pretty tight and we hang out
Speaker 1: a lot, and one of our neighbors has to move
Speaker 1: out after living there for seventeen years because her landlord
Speaker 1: is selling her flat. And I know, and it's just
Speaker 1: like and it was so interesting, right because the neighbors
Speaker 1: were all hanging out.
Speaker 2: We're having a party, right.
Speaker 1: I magically survived to hangover, probably through my power of
Speaker 1: just like being a fairly regular drinker anyway. But you know,
Speaker 1: like let's not let's not analyze.
Speaker 2: While Eleanor wasn't hungover on Sunday. We don't need to
Speaker 2: go into all that.
Speaker 1: But I was noticing this like really quite interesting sort
Speaker 1: of breakdown politicularly where like my neighbor who was moving out,
Speaker 1: I think she's gonna be like either super young boomer
Speaker 1: or like older gen X, Right, and then like all
Speaker 1: of the zoomers were too cool to hang out with
Speaker 1: us in the building. Ed you know what fair fucking
Speaker 1: play like good, Like you don't need to hang out
Speaker 1: with the zeamers.
Speaker 2: We're all like come over, drink drink this free wine.
Speaker 1: You see us hanging out outside, and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta go and look, you know what fair play
Speaker 1: to you. But we were like saying to Sarah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it like fucking sucks because like her landlord is like
Speaker 1: selling all his properties because they're going to bring in
Speaker 1: like the like smallest modicum of taxation on landlords uh
Speaker 1: in the UK. So all of these flats are suddenly
Speaker 1: getting sold and she's like, yeah, you know, he owns
Speaker 1: thirteen flats, And the millennials are like, what the fuck
Speaker 1: that's like so immoral Jesus Christ, you know, like I
Speaker 1: mean like like this is disgusting. I can't fucking And
Speaker 1: she's like, no, no, no, he's a nice man like,
Speaker 1: but I'm like the dude who had you paying rent
Speaker 1: for seventeen years, who's now kicking you out of his flat,
Speaker 1: a flat that I hasten to add he paid like
Speaker 1: forty five thousand pounds, so he's just like made money.
Speaker 1: Hand over a fist off. My neighbor now kicking her
Speaker 1: out so that he can like get some other giant
Speaker 1: payout payday and she's got to move out like two
Speaker 1: more zones, like, which is so in like we have
Speaker 1: like these circles, so it's like the zone one is
Speaker 1: the middle and then da dada. So now she's gonna
Speaker 1: be like way the fuck out there, and she's still like, no, no,
Speaker 1: my landlord is fine, and like all millennials are like,
Speaker 1: I'm building a guillotine right now. I'm gonna like starch
Speaker 1: public like registry and I'm gonna go find this address.
Speaker 2: And I just thought it. It was like really interesting, kind
Speaker 2: of like the.
Speaker 1: Dichotomy there, and then like you know, it was also
Speaker 1: Eurovision this weekend, and and then she was like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go watch Eurovision, and like all of us
Speaker 1: were like, oh, we're not, and she's like, why don't.
Speaker 2: You like Eurovision.
Speaker 1: We're like we all like Eurovision, but Israel's in Eurovision,
Speaker 1: so like we're not We're not watching because of well,
Speaker 1: like you know, the pink washing. And she was like, oh,
Speaker 1: well I don't think about that bye, and we're just
Speaker 1: like okay.
Speaker 3: And I didn't hear it. I didn't hear a god
Speaker 3: damn thing about about Eurovision, to the point that when
Speaker 3: I saw like somebody quote tweeting an article about a winner,
Speaker 3: I was like, did they they have Eurovision and I
Speaker 3: didn't know about it, and I didn't.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the thing is like, yo, I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you what, all the comrades, as far as we're.
Speaker 2: Concerned, Eurovision didn't go down. I'm not joking.
Speaker 1: Like Israel put all this money into like running ads
Speaker 1: in Australia and America being like please vote for Israel
Speaker 1: in the Eurovision, so like they came as a result,
Speaker 1: you know, because like everyone's boycotting right like, and then
Speaker 1: the people who aren't boycotting are just watching Eurovision like
Speaker 1: normal people and voting for who they want the most.
Speaker 1: But Israel is like running this thing where everyone is
Speaker 1: like calling in twenty times for them from like America
Speaker 1: and you know, fucking like Australia and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And then they're like, see everybody loves us, and it's
Speaker 1: like nohing, oh my god, Like it's just that you're
Speaker 1: the only ones left watching, right and it's like.
Speaker 3: And you still got second, and you still couldn't win.
Speaker 3: You rigged the whole thing. The whole thing was pulled out.
Speaker 3: It was rigged, and you couldn't do it. Like that's
Speaker 3: the thing. I don't know who won. I don't care
Speaker 3: they could be the second coming of Abba. Or they
Speaker 3: could be you know, one of those things, one of
Speaker 3: those like Icelandic groups that wins every so often or
Speaker 3: something that's like, nah, we do the the the icy beats, yeah,
Speaker 3: or something, and they're just like not the icy Beats
Speaker 3: and you're like, yeah, man, that's cool. Whatever, Like it
Speaker 3: could be the it could be the worst mumblecore rap
Speaker 3: shit in history. They could be the coming of Abba.
Speaker 3: But like, still, you didn't win. The whole thing's geared
Speaker 3: for you. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it was Austria.
Speaker 1: I think Austria one, but I don't But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I don't know what the songs
Speaker 1: are because I'm just like, because you're not going to
Speaker 1: catch a girl participant.
Speaker 3: Do they play the songs on the radio after? Is
Speaker 3: that like the thing? I mean, I don't listen to
Speaker 3: the radio here.
Speaker 2: Really, I mean not here, babe.
Speaker 1: They don't really play Eurovision songs on the radio here,
Speaker 1: do they No. It's like I mean, in theory maybe,
Speaker 1: but it's like I mean, to be fair, like we
Speaker 1: usually have dogshit songs in the UK.
Speaker 3: So I just meant like they like there's like a
Speaker 3: winning song ever, like yeah.
Speaker 4: Since.
Speaker 1: Okay, so Justin's take on this is if it's a
Speaker 1: really good song, they'll put it on the radio. But
Speaker 1: the UK hasn't had a good song since arguably books
Speaker 1: Phizz is making your mind up. So you can go
Speaker 1: listen to that afterwards for a little treat.
Speaker 2: Oh, Gena G. That's right, Gena G.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she had a very small dress on. You know,
Speaker 1: that's what Eurovision is all about. That's what Eurovision is
Speaker 1: all about, small clothes. I mean, I think the first
Speaker 1: time I ever saw it, wait, no, that wasn't the
Speaker 1: first time. It was much after that, but I just
Speaker 1: think of him fondly. There were these real oiled up,
Speaker 1: shirtless irishmen this one year. God, what a time to
Speaker 1: be ill, like they were just so oily luke. Oh
Speaker 1: the Polish milk maids who were like jacking off, like
Speaker 1: the like butter churns.
Speaker 2: That was memorable.
Speaker 1: But we're boycotting that bullshit and it sucks because I
Speaker 1: love Eurovision so fucking much. But I can't even I
Speaker 1: can't even be watching it. But you know what I
Speaker 1: could do is I could go watch like videos of
Speaker 1: old ones Man when there was like the Estonian guys
Speaker 1: who dressed up like pirates ship that was so good.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: You know, it is like it has such a cultural
Speaker 3: hold on Europe, and like for good reason I didn't
Speaker 3: and like I couldn't tell you like a thing like there.
Speaker 3: I couldn't tell you a thing about it, about what happens.
Speaker 3: I know, like a couple of bands that are really
Speaker 3: famous and I kind of like have gotten their starts
Speaker 3: there and like, but other than that, it's just like
Speaker 3: some kind of like competition. And when I found out,
Speaker 3: like for a long time, I thought it was like
Speaker 3: a cultural thing, so I was like, we're gonna show
Speaker 3: up and do like our cultural ways or something like that.
Speaker 3: So you have like people doing likes and shit like that.
Speaker 3: And then I was like, oh, it's just a concert
Speaker 3: and oh that's fun, like okay, cool, like but like
Speaker 3: I had a come like one million percent different idea
Speaker 3: of what it was than what it actually was. Like
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, like everybody was kind of like,
Speaker 3: here's are you know, whatever our uh whatever music we
Speaker 3: have that we kind of like or whatever, and that
Speaker 3: was it. And then finding out it's just like this
Speaker 3: huge like loo battle of the Battle of the bands
Speaker 3: for the weirdest fucking shit you've ever heard, and occasionally
Speaker 3: the best electronic music ever, and you're just like.
Speaker 1: Cool, like fundamentally, Luke, this is our culture, but it's
Speaker 1: like our beautiful European culture and like the always sunny
Speaker 1: way where it's likes or I'm European, you know.
Speaker 3: I know I am. I am not hating. I am
Speaker 3: simply saying that I was badly mistaken about exactly what
Speaker 3: Eurovision was.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Probably like it's probably like a I don't know, like
Speaker 3: five or ten years ago, and I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: And I don't know why I thought that, because I
Speaker 3: knew Abba came from it, but I guess maybe I
Speaker 3: thought that, like they I don't clean Dion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, who represented Switzerland?
Speaker 3: About to say she's not.
Speaker 1: No, but she represented she represented Switzerland. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: there's not euphoria song Like that song is real. That's
Speaker 1: a real song, you know.
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, like you occasionally get real songs.
Speaker 1: But it's like, yeah, I mean it just sucks because
Speaker 1: we can't have nice things anymore.
Speaker 2: So uh, and it's such a nice thing.
Speaker 3: You remember that Planet of the Bass song that was yeah,
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago. Yeah, that that is all
Speaker 3: Eurovision songs.
Speaker 2: To me, ideal. Like, I get really annoyed when because
Speaker 2: there's you have two options.
Speaker 1: You have the Planet of the Bass song or well
Speaker 1: actually three, or you have some like an insane metal
Speaker 1: from a lot of the the like the Nordic countries
Speaker 1: will occasionally send metal and you're like, great, fantastic, And
Speaker 1: then the other option is that like sometimes people just
Speaker 1: send these sincere ballads and it's like, get the fuck
Speaker 1: out of here. I hate it. I hate it every
Speaker 1: time someone sends a ballad. I'm like, get I don't
Speaker 1: want to see a ballad. I don't want to hear
Speaker 1: abaid I. Also, I mean, the cute thing I'm telling
Speaker 1: people is that I'm boycotting Eurovision until Australia is kicked
Speaker 1: back out again because I don't think that Australia belongs.
Speaker 2: I think that Australia should be allowed to vote, but
Speaker 2: I don't think that they should be allowed to participate.
Speaker 3: But why should they be allowed to vote? Ah, you know,
Speaker 3: they should be allowed to vote thing. Canada almost certainly should.
Speaker 1: I want them to have participation without representation. That's what
Speaker 1: I think that the Australians should have, Okay, I don't,
Speaker 1: I'd like I And it's so funny because like the
Speaker 1: first one they said, and they were like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: we said a really good song.
Speaker 2: I'm like my good brothers.
Speaker 1: My brother's in hooning, my brother's in gooning, my brother's
Speaker 1: in christ That song was not good.
Speaker 2: That was a bad ballad.
Speaker 3: And it's it's going to dot gun out there from
Speaker 3: the Olympic regun w the dub.
Speaker 1: Centism, you know, Like I'm doing Australian references now, I'm
Speaker 1: like a send machine Gun Filatio. That's who I want
Speaker 1: to see representing Australia. But if you're gonna come at
Speaker 1: me with some boring ass ballad like I don't want
Speaker 1: to see it. Yes, I'm making references to Australian bands
Speaker 1: from the odds. I don't even know if machine Gun
Speaker 1: Flatio exists anymore. But I tell you what, Paging Mister
Speaker 1: Strike is a banger of an album that, yeah, of
Speaker 1: course you haven't believe look at Australian band.
Speaker 3: I've heard a couple of songs by Australian bands in excess.
Speaker 2: Kylie Minogue, Things of this.
Speaker 3: Nature, Minute Work, The Safety dance. Hello, they taught me
Speaker 3: I could dance if I want to.
Speaker 2: That's so true, That's so fucking true.
Speaker 3: Actually, I'm trying to think of any other Australian bands.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 1: Was Silver Chair from Australia, Yeah, they were there, Nies.
Speaker 1: Who are those ones who did Prisoner of Society and
Speaker 1: west en Riot little Australian band I can't recall anyway.
Speaker 3: I'm sure there are. I'm sure some Australian persons going
Speaker 3: to tell us why this is rude and offensive?
Speaker 1: I love hate Yo, You're looking at a girl who
Speaker 1: has seen the Hilltop Hoods in concert like five times,
Speaker 1: like including here in London, like when the Hilltop has
Speaker 1: come to London, I go because I love Australian rap
Speaker 1: slash Adelaide based rap apparently, so you know, like, don't
Speaker 1: don't worry about what I'm willing to see it in concert, Okay.
Speaker 3: I after this, I'm going to listen to whatever this is,
Speaker 3: and these people do not this. If this does not
Speaker 3: have ristine Australian accents while rapping, I'm gonna be furious
Speaker 3: if they do the English thing where they lose it
Speaker 3: when they start singing.
Speaker 1: So I'm immediately sending you YouTube videos of the Hilltop
Speaker 1: Hoods because you're going to be so delighted.
Speaker 3: I need I need the word war to be rhymed
Speaker 3: with the word na oh, I.
Speaker 1: Mean so true, so true. Uh God, Like, I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you the Hilltop Hoods are the ones to go
Speaker 1: to for all of your Australian based needs if that's
Speaker 1: what you want, and that's what I want.
Speaker 2: I don't want, like, don't give me this iggy Azalia.
Speaker 1: I'm pretending that I don't have an accent ship like
Speaker 1: I want do not put on an American accent.
Speaker 2: I want you to like ride with it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that her awful song would have been so
Speaker 3: much better. She did just like fast things fast and
Speaker 3: the like what like.
Speaker 1: Realist.
Speaker 3: Yeah. If she had been doing that, fine fine whatever
Speaker 3: that we would like at least it would have been funny.
Speaker 3: Instead it was just bad.
Speaker 5: I'm still in the mode of business right right.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Actually, new New New One.
Speaker 1: Australia can stay in the Eurovision, but only if they
Speaker 1: send Alia and she has to rap with her real accent, or.
Speaker 3: They send Nicole Kidman. They just send Nicole Kibman out there,
Speaker 3: and they're like and just like what am I supposed
Speaker 3: to do?
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 4: What do you do?
Speaker 3: What are you famous for? She's like, I'm an actress.
Speaker 2: Hugh Jackman, he can sing, and dad he can?
Speaker 3: He can't? Yeah he can and he loves to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you can get him out there. We all love it.
Speaker 3: Does he still I don't does he still really have
Speaker 3: an Aussie accent anymore?
Speaker 2: When yeah, yeah he does.
Speaker 1: It's just you know, I saw this like hilarious comment
Speaker 1: online lunch on, like a video of like Margot Robbie
Speaker 1: doing press and this woman was like what she insist
Speaker 1: on having an Australian accent.
Speaker 2: She knows how to talk properly. She's just doing this
Speaker 2: to show off.
Speaker 1: This woman is like, once you learn how to do
Speaker 1: an American accent, just like keep doing it.
Speaker 2: Like it's very funny.
Speaker 3: I cannot. I cannot talking properly people slandering a good
Speaker 3: Aussie accent.
Speaker 2: It's one of it's one of our best accents.
Speaker 3: It is like I tell, I tell you what if
Speaker 3: if I met an Australian woman when I was younger,
Speaker 3: like they could have talked to me and they just
Speaker 3: be like, oh wow, that's.
Speaker 1: How you end up anything married in my experience, just
Speaker 1: like you know, that's what that's.
Speaker 2: How they fucking get you.
Speaker 3: He starts talking about the Milanda Gildachuk and you're just like.
Speaker 1: Mat next thing you know, you're on You're living in
Speaker 1: Newtown for three years and your wife.
Speaker 3: To the fuck up.
Speaker 2: That's all.
Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying is like you meet, you meet
Speaker 1: an Australian accent at the wrong age.
Speaker 2: That's all over for you.
Speaker 6: So yeah, mm hmm, what what a shit show?
Speaker 2: We should do our job instead. I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: Folks. If you're Australian, right in and uh.
Speaker 2: Hey you got that's a really bad one. Uh.
Speaker 1: If you're Australian, ride in and tell me who your
Speaker 1: favorite Ozzie Rules football team is.
Speaker 2: It should be the Swans.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I have no opinion about that except
Speaker 3: one time. Uh, when we lived in Denver, me and
Speaker 3: my wife were really really high and we're late and
Speaker 3: on ESPN sometimes in the middle of the night, they
Speaker 3: show fucking Ozzie Rules Football here and we just watch
Speaker 3: like slack job for like two hours. This is great.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't do it often because I'm not staying up
Speaker 3: that late, but yeah, it was pretty fun to watch.
Speaker 3: I like Ausie rules football and rugby and all that.
Speaker 3: It's nice, you know, but I prefer my British American football.
Speaker 3: But what is it?
Speaker 2: Yeah my boorish.
Speaker 3: My boorish improper football. Yeah anyway, Yeah, let's that's a
Speaker 3: lot like aland that is yep, because they have uh
Speaker 3: ball sports there too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there we go, baby.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome back to We're Not So Different, a
Speaker 3: podcast about how I've never done a bad segue. My
Speaker 3: name is Luke. I'm an amateur medievalist, and as always
Speaker 3: I'm joined by doctor doctor Ellen. I can't even, I
Speaker 3: can't even or a I don't know many. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: I'm here with doctor Eleanor Yaniga, who is anything but Hello.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: Today we're gonna talk about al Andelous again. But uh,
Speaker 3: first we got a question. I got a couple of questions.
Speaker 3: First from Gaffzie. My impression of the Renaissance papacy is
Speaker 3: that it was viewed as an Italian institution and whoever
Speaker 3: was pope was more than likely going to be from
Speaker 3: the Peninsula. Is this accurate? And if so, how slush?
Speaker 3: When did the state of affairs arise? Where their periods
Speaker 3: where popes were more likely to be from some other
Speaker 3: nationality like German or friends. How did that affect things
Speaker 3: in Rome?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the thing about the papacy is really, if
Speaker 1: you're being honest, it's mostly an Italian institution of the
Speaker 1: popes two hundred and.
Speaker 2: Seventeen, I've been Italian. I was looking this up.
Speaker 1: Fun fact, any pope that is called Pious, Boniface or
Speaker 1: Paul was Italian, which is really helpful. That's a really
Speaker 1: helpful thing to kind of remember. And but like it's
Speaker 1: just mostly you get Italian. So yeah, you're like, you're
Speaker 1: not wrong, You're goddamn right. Second, up is France? Unsurprising, right,
Speaker 1: because what ends up happening with that is, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously during the avenue and papacy, like that's what's going down, right,
Speaker 1: is it's just like it's it's time to France.
Speaker 2: That isn't saying that there weren't others.
Speaker 1: So like Sylvester is the second he's one, you know,
Speaker 1: and you get the the occasional ones from around the shop,
Speaker 1: like in the High Medieval period, it's more likely that
Speaker 1: you're gonna get the dudes from around the shop, like
Speaker 1: you know, oh, here and there. It's like, oh, we're
Speaker 1: we're having you know, like there's Adrian, right, like the
Speaker 1: one English pope and guys like that.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: But in the very earliest bits of the papacy, you
Speaker 1: get popes from a lot of different places, so you
Speaker 1: know the levant like so you'll have like a bunch
Speaker 1: of Syrian popes, right, like that's that's the thing that exists,
Speaker 1: or African.
Speaker 2: Popes, you know, people who've come from Tunisia.
Speaker 1: There's a couple of Byzantine popes for example, and so
Speaker 1: like all of these things are coming about at the
Speaker 1: time when you would expect like very very early on
Speaker 1: year one hundred, year two hundred, things like that. Same
Speaker 1: with like there's like one Portuguese one from.
Speaker 2: From pretty early on.
Speaker 1: You got a couple of Spanish popes and they come
Speaker 1: in like exactly when you think that they're going to
Speaker 1: come in, so end of the fifteenth century, beginning of
Speaker 1: the sixteenth so like when Spain is incredibly powerful, Yeah
Speaker 1: you get a pope. So yeah, like you're bang on here.
Speaker 1: This is one of the things that happens if you
Speaker 1: are in a cultural ascendancy in the medieval and early
Speaker 1: modern period. You are more likely to get a pope
Speaker 1: on the throne because of the way that political influence works,
Speaker 1: just fundamentally fundamentally, whereas kind of like now, you know,
Speaker 1: we were talking about it the other day, like you
Speaker 1: can have an American pope now because America is like
Speaker 1: becoming suitably uninfluential, right, But for the most part, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: popes are popes are Italian, Like I mean, it's like
Speaker 1: by a measure of hundreds, the popes are telling.
Speaker 2: So yeah, like if you call the Renaissance.
Speaker 1: Babe see Italian, I'm not mad about it at all, Slash.
Speaker 1: I think that's you know, probably the way that it is.
Speaker 1: It's just that we're kind of being Italian papacy brackets
Speaker 1: bad because it's like that's when you get Borgia of
Speaker 1: popes and things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the only one that wouldn't really be
Speaker 3: Italian is the very earliest ones, like Eleanor was talking
Speaker 3: about the African ones, you know, Peter obviously, those early
Speaker 3: early ones, and then like the last the post World
Speaker 3: War two era. Basically other than that, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, I guess they've.
Speaker 3: Been It's it's real Italian in the you know, between
Speaker 3: like three hundred or so and you know, nineteen forty or.
Speaker 1: Whatever, Like, I mean, I guess you get the one
Speaker 1: Dutch pope in the Renaissance mix. But that also makes
Speaker 1: sense because of how the Dutch were really important in
Speaker 1: the sixteenth century. So that's that's Adrian the sixth So yeah,
Speaker 1: like that's the thing. But yeah, I mean, if you
Speaker 1: were like posts popes are usually Italian, that's just true, homeboy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, any anytime. Yeah, I think you know, basically the
Speaker 3: only time you get German ones is when the Holy
Speaker 3: Roman Empire was kind of in descendancy and they could
Speaker 3: put someone on the throat on the paper throne without uh,
Speaker 3: without them having to be an anti pope m.
Speaker 2: Hm oh yeah for sure. And it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: you get you got like four Germans and an Austrian.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, you know, it's it's.
Speaker 1: More likely that you're gonna get French Holy Roman imperial popes,
Speaker 1: but you know, but you do get them, get you gotta,
Speaker 1: that's for sure.
Speaker 3: Yep, Gussie, Yeah, thank you, thank you very much for
Speaker 3: the question. Uh, the papacy an Italian institution with roots
Speaker 3: outside of that. Man, it's really funny, like like they're
Speaker 3: never gonna elect it now their Italian pope. Ever, they're like,
Speaker 3: now we got to reach more people.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like the Italians we got we got their
Speaker 1: asses locked down, Like like what are you trying to prove?
Speaker 3: That may have shocked me more about about Pope Leo
Speaker 3: than than anything like coming here, Like, no, dog, why
Speaker 3: aren't you in Africa? Like you got to do? You
Speaker 3: either got to do the Africa and the African guy
Speaker 3: or uh, the the East guy. Yeah like you yeah anyway,
Speaker 3: uh whatever, it's their institution to run. It's not my business. Yeah, Gasie,
Speaker 3: thank you very much. Next, we got one from dog Spotter.
Speaker 3: How much money could one make if they went back
Speaker 3: to the golden age of trade uh in Venice with
Speaker 3: a magic computer that always had power and didn't break
Speaker 3: down with excel or equivalent, assuming that no one killed
Speaker 3: them to take it. Would one family buy them out
Speaker 3: and give them all, give them all of the accounting
Speaker 3: job sellaries for life, or would Venetian merchants be able
Speaker 3: to work as a grea with this tech. I'm not
Speaker 3: the person skill issue, but could a revolutionary good corporate
Speaker 3: finance accounting person make a bajillion florins? Or would there
Speaker 3: be other issues.
Speaker 1: I think the major issues that you're going to end
Speaker 1: up getting like amalgamated into one of the families.
Speaker 2: Yes, I've thought.
Speaker 1: About this for a really long time, and I think
Speaker 1: that like, yeah, I think the Medichi you are just
Speaker 1: going to be like you work for us, right because fundamentally,
Speaker 1: the thing that is happening is that we have individuals
Speaker 1: who are the ones who are loaning out the money.
Speaker 1: So you're going to end up working for them like
Speaker 1: they are bank because that's what they are. I don't
Speaker 1: see a way of doing individual accounting for several people,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, if what you want to do is
Speaker 1: make a lot of money, you do it by going
Speaker 1: to the Medichi and being like, hello, I can do this,
Speaker 1: I can do this all. And that's how you would
Speaker 1: bargain it, which would make it easier for them, you know,
Speaker 1: and they could get the leg breakers out whenever they need,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. It's I don't think that there's
Speaker 1: a way where you play various families off against each
Speaker 1: other because of how these people behave, And I don't
Speaker 1: think that you're gonna make as much money if you're
Speaker 1: doing it with the more piecemeal people. So you're gonna
Speaker 1: want to just sell it to the highest better and
Speaker 1: I'm going straight to the Medici door. I'm going knock knock,
Speaker 1: doc hello. I have basic Excel skills.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 3: I'm the only person with the password to turn this on.
Speaker 3: If you kill me, you don't get it. If you
Speaker 3: let me live, you get more money than you have,
Speaker 3: or I can take Downstreet to someone else and they
Speaker 3: can have it anyway to me, Like, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're gonna want to get in with one of the
Speaker 3: big banking families. But there is like there is kind
Speaker 3: of a hard cap on the sheer amount of money
Speaker 3: you could make in the Middle Ages, simply because the
Speaker 3: economies of especially Europe and West Asia the levant at
Speaker 3: that time had not been heavily monetized enough for you
Speaker 3: to be able to get like a billion florins. A
Speaker 3: billion florins would like destroy their economy by like on
Speaker 3: an exponential like a million florins. One person having that
Speaker 3: many at one time would almost certainly decimate their economy.
Speaker 3: So like anything above that is just going to do it.
Speaker 3: You don't get the monetization like that until the Spanish
Speaker 3: conquest of the Americas and they start getting those obscene
Speaker 3: levels of gold and silver in and even at that point,
Speaker 3: it's just going straight through Spain into their creditors. So
Speaker 3: you know, in order to start getting those like huge
Speaker 3: amounts of money, you really have to go to like
Speaker 3: sixteen oh three, sixteen o four, the East India Company,
Speaker 3: when that gets established and when like the growth, the
Speaker 3: exponential growth happens, and that's you know, two hundred some
Speaker 3: odd year to three hundred years after the Venetian you know,
Speaker 3: monetary Golden Age. So yeah, yeah, not you can make
Speaker 3: a lot of money, but I think there would be
Speaker 3: a cap on it because a billion florins what would
Speaker 3: they do? What would they do with a billion florence?
Speaker 2: You know, I just don't know that you could even
Speaker 2: make a billion of florence. I don't think that there
Speaker 2: is enough metal, you know, like yeah, like I.
Speaker 1: Just don't think that you can you can do it
Speaker 1: in terms of like what mining is and what the
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Gold and silver resources of Europe are at the time.
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 3: think it's possible. Yeah, look they're okay, here's here's a
Speaker 3: good thing. There are at press Or as of twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3: The last time there's a report, the US Mint said
Speaker 3: that there are five hundred and four million cores in
Speaker 3: circulation of the United States. So even in our economy
Speaker 3: with three hundred and fifty billion I'm sorry, three and
Speaker 3: fifty million people, we only have five hundred million quarters,
Speaker 3: you know, so like anything anywhere closing like a million
Speaker 3: number at that point is going to uh just like
Speaker 3: light their economy on fire times a million. But you
Speaker 3: know what, it's a fun hypothetical, So who cares.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally topletely, it's a nice one to think about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, dog spotter, thank you very much for
Speaker 3: the question. If you want to ask us questions like those,
Speaker 3: please do subscribe to the Patreon at patreon dot com
Speaker 3: slash w NSD pod. You can't get access to our discord,
Speaker 3: you can ask us questions. You get two bonus episodes
Speaker 3: a month, and we got one coming at the end
Speaker 3: of the week. Folks, it's time to visit our good
Speaker 3: friend Cassine and Or and the face communists in space,
Speaker 3: bourgeois libs that that that make the world turn, that
Speaker 3: make our lives a little bit better through their fun
Speaker 3: little stories. God, there are there are a lot of
Speaker 3: idiots in this season, and I really love some idiot gas.
Speaker 2: It was it was making me, it was making me giggle.
Speaker 2: So I'm ready to that. I've had to hold back
Speaker 2: today because I have a lot to say.
Speaker 6: But that's yeah, yeah, uh yeah.
Speaker 3: So anyway, uh yeah, subscribe pictureon dot com slash wnctpod
Speaker 3: five bucks a month and uh yeah, it's great, you
Speaker 3: should do it. But anyway, on to the main show. So, folks,
Speaker 3: today we're doing our second episode in the series on
Speaker 3: al Andolous and it's a big one because we get
Speaker 3: to talk about the real story behind the Battle of
Speaker 3: Tours and Charles Martel and then the broader collapse of
Speaker 3: the Umiad Caliphate in the levant West Asia and Africa
Speaker 3: at the hands of the Abasids, leaving only a rump
Speaker 3: state in Iberia known as the Umiyad State of Cordoba
Speaker 3: that last until ten thirty one. After this, the series
Speaker 3: will speed up a little a little bit more to
Speaker 3: cover the rest of Muslim rule and Iberia. It's just
Speaker 3: that these early years are crucial to understanding what actually happened,
Speaker 3: what's just later propaganda, and why it matters a lot
Speaker 3: to our current situation. So following their invasion of the
Speaker 3: Iberian Peninsula, which began in seven to eleven CE, the
Speaker 3: Umids successfully made treaties with bought off or defeated the
Speaker 3: locals in battle, creating the formal Muslim controlled state of
Speaker 3: all Ontoluse by seven seventeen. By seven twenty one, the
Speaker 3: invasion period had mostly ended as the Umiads, despite suffering
Speaker 3: a couple of defeats in Austurias and at Toulouse, had
Speaker 3: fully destroyed the Visigothic Iberian leadership. Following the Battle of
Speaker 3: a Guadaletta, Muslim forces controlled the entire peninsula up to
Speaker 3: the Pyrenees, save for a small strip in the north
Speaker 3: known as Austurias, as well as a small spit of
Speaker 3: land in southwestern France encompassing the city of Narbon. With
Speaker 3: these borders were relatively stable. The situation in Iberia entered
Speaker 3: a period of relative calm and stability for about a decade,
Speaker 3: as the Umiyad leadership solidified its hold and mostly stopped
Speaker 3: the efforts and territorial expansion. Periodic rebellions broke out, mostly
Speaker 3: fueled Biostorian holdouts and atter the greats Machinesis in Aquitaine,
Speaker 3: but they were successfully suppressed. The Andalusians likewise continued rating
Speaker 3: across the Pyrenees and up through Narbon. But that's it. However,
Speaker 3: in seven point thirty one, Odo, the great Christian ruler
Speaker 3: of Aquitaine, formed an alliance with the Umiyad rulers of
Speaker 3: Iberia to stop their raids into his lands. If you
Speaker 3: are familiar with popular accounts of the era, you might
Speaker 3: be surprised that a Christian Gaulish leader would allie with Muslims.
Speaker 3: But as you're going to see, the popular narrative is wrong,
Speaker 3: at least according to contemporary and modern historians. In reality,
Speaker 3: Odo was more unnerved by the infringements of his sovereignty
Speaker 3: by the powerful Christian leader Charles Martel and the Franks
Speaker 3: to his north, who were preparing to invade, then he
Speaker 3: was of any Muslim threat for Iberia. Auto didn't care
Speaker 3: about some civilizational struggle between Islam and Christianity. He had real,
Speaker 3: actual material problems, like saving his kingdom and his skin.
Speaker 3: Thus Odo did Thus, Odo did the only sensible thing
Speaker 3: a medieval ruler would do. Impressed by an aggressor, he
Speaker 3: formed an alliance with another strong local power, marrying his
Speaker 3: daughter off to a Berber prince named Uthmond, at the
Speaker 3: time the governor of the state that would eventually become Catalunya.
Speaker 3: In theory, this should have solved Odo's rating and Martel problems.
Speaker 3: There's just one little hiccup in the planet. Namely, many
Speaker 3: of these Iberian Berbers had long simmering resentment against the
Speaker 3: Umids and Salt turrebel So it was that till later
Speaker 3: in seven point thirty one, Uthman murdered a local Christian
Speaker 3: bishop who was under the protection of Muslim leadership, and
Speaker 3: then seceded from the broader Umiad state. Suddenly, Odo was
Speaker 3: in deep shit. He had betrayed the Umiad Caliphate and
Speaker 3: wouldn't be given leniency, and he had deeply offended Charles
Speaker 3: Martel by making the alliance in the first place. Almost
Speaker 3: immediately Martel broke broke their peace treaty and began attacking
Speaker 3: Occutane from the north, which Odo himself personally defended. Then
Speaker 3: at the same time, Abdul Rochman al Gaffiki, an Umiad commander,
Speaker 3: brutally suppressed Uthman's rebellion, killing him and sending Odo's daughter
Speaker 3: back as a captive to serve in a harem in Cordoba.
Speaker 3: Odo then had to turn his attention south against Algafigi
Speaker 3: and his massive rating party, who had pressed beyond Narbone,
Speaker 3: ransacking as far as Bordeaux. When they arrived, Odo's forces
Speaker 3: were comprehensively smashed outside of Bordeaux at the Garonne River,
Speaker 3: and he was left with no choice but to crawl
Speaker 3: back to Charles and beg for help or face annihilation.
Speaker 3: Charles agreed to help, but Odo gave up his Cherish sovereignty,
Speaker 3: accepting overlordship and becoming a Frankish vassal. Meanwhile, the Muslim
Speaker 3: forces pushed up into central France near the Loire River
Speaker 3: to deal with Odo's betrayal. As a result, Charles, Odo
Speaker 3: and their combined forces move south to counter Gaffigi near
Speaker 3: a small town known as Tours eleanor without you know,
Speaker 3: going into all you know of the of the specifics,
Speaker 3: What is it from here? What is the conventional narrative
Speaker 3: of the Battle of Tours that you were very likely
Speaker 3: to hear from let's say, around at least around one
Speaker 3: thousand CE until maybe ten years ago.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so this is you know.
Speaker 1: The umiad lusts in his heart for France apparently, you know,
Speaker 1: like and and they were coming over the mountains with
Speaker 1: eighty thousand troops in order to take over Frankia and
Speaker 1: continue there hated Islamic rule at but luckily Charles Martel
Speaker 1: was out with a plucky bunch. It's like like a
Speaker 1: plucky bunch of like twenty thousand troops or whatever.
Speaker 3: A ragtag a bunch of twenty thousand troops that he
Speaker 3: just casually had moving through the medieval countryside at the time.
Speaker 3: Twenty thousand people in France at the time. That's a
Speaker 3: whole lot of fucking people.
Speaker 2: That's like so much. That's so much. I mean, like
Speaker 2: these are just huge numbers in the first place. But
Speaker 2: we'll get into that in a bit.
Speaker 1: And that they meet outside tour and God wills that
Speaker 1: you know, they hated Umiid are killed and it's like
Speaker 1: it's a it's a blood bath. They all win, and
Speaker 1: they are taught such an important and valuable lesson that
Speaker 1: they never come over the purities again.
Speaker 2: Hooray.
Speaker 1: You can you can throw a roll into this if
Speaker 1: you say you yeah, pretty much, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, Frankie, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, uh yeah. So I mean that's the thing. This
Speaker 3: is a foundational piece of the civilizational struggle between Islam
Speaker 3: and Christianity. You know that they've supposedly been fighting this
Speaker 3: like ever long battle, even though I don't know, Spain
Speaker 3: was close to majority christ the area of Spain was
Speaker 3: close to majority Christian.
Speaker 2: Let's not let you.
Speaker 1: Know, statistics get in the way of a good story
Speaker 1: about the Umiad, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or the fact or the fact that they controlled
Speaker 3: so in Italy and Sicily for a long time.
Speaker 2: Or like like you know, whatever, any.
Speaker 3: Any of the other examples. The point is that like
Speaker 3: this is the thing, and this is a result of
Speaker 3: at least according to the scholar the people who wrote
Speaker 3: at the time, which are very which are few and
Speaker 3: far between, and modern scholars, is that it was a
Speaker 3: big battle, especially for the time. It was like huge
Speaker 3: fucking and it was a hard fought battle. The Muslims
Speaker 3: definitely lost. They took a lot of casualties in the process,
Speaker 3: most of which happened when they were fleeing, of course,
Speaker 3: because that's when a lot of anyway, But you know,
Speaker 3: it was a hard fought thing. And then Martel's own
Speaker 3: like family propagandistism work. But much later after that this
Speaker 3: became like a cause de celeb were like medieval Christian
Speaker 3: writers beginning in the eleventh century and on it, and
Speaker 3: it started to take on this, you know, twenty thousand,
Speaker 3: three hundred and seventy thousand Muslims and defeated, and you're
Speaker 3: just like, what the fuck. So, yeah, let's talk about
Speaker 3: the actual Battle of Tours, which is interesting. We're not
Speaker 3: going to do the whole battle thing because we're not
Speaker 3: a military history podcast, but I do think it is
Speaker 3: kind of important to talk about this stuff. And one
Speaker 3: thing is the sources. As we said last time, there's
Speaker 3: one Christian source for this time period. It is the
Speaker 3: Chronicle of seven fifty four, which was written by was
Speaker 3: written over time by a monk, and it.
Speaker 2: Was shoutous monks, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Shout out anonymous monks, and it was you know, published
Speaker 3: in the medieval sense after his death. You know, it
Speaker 3: was passed around and you know it was copied down
Speaker 3: by people, et cetera, et cetera. There are a couple
Speaker 3: of Islamic source, very scattered Islamic sources. And then we
Speaker 3: have the Venerable Bead, who mentions the Battle of Tours
Speaker 3: as well, although at this point and in this instance,
Speaker 3: he's more like, yeah, it happened, you know, there you go,
Speaker 3: and all right, so based on that, what we know
Speaker 3: is a battle occurred near the town of Tours or Poitier.
Speaker 3: This sometimes is called the Battle of Poitier, even though
Speaker 3: there's a much more famous Battle of Plothier. And I
Speaker 3: don't know why you'd try to rejig it now, you know.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter whatever we're calling it.
Speaker 3: Try to argue with historians. I'm calling it Tours. Anyway.
Speaker 3: At least twenty thousand Muslim soldiers were there. They were
Speaker 3: laden with booty from ransacking Bordeaux, which was wealthy even then,
Speaker 3: and had either heard rumors of additional wealth at a
Speaker 3: very sacred shrine in the city of Tour or in
Speaker 3: the town of Tours, or we're just going to continue
Speaker 3: rating until they got stopped, and then they got turned back.
Speaker 3: At the same time, Charles Martel had about twenty thousand
Speaker 3: soldiers with him under his control. Auto the second, Auto
Speaker 3: the Great was his second in command. And yeah, the
Speaker 3: there was a big fight. It was very hard fought.
Speaker 3: It lasted a good while. The Muslims got the advantage
Speaker 3: for a little while. The Martel actually formed squares. If
Speaker 3: you're familiar with Napoleonic warfare. Obviously he's not for it's
Speaker 3: not the same principle, but that's what it looked like.
Speaker 3: According to reports, he has a square, they are able
Speaker 3: to fend off the infantry. They have like FEALANX shields
Speaker 3: with them, So this is like an old style Greek
Speaker 3: battle mixed with you know what, we would see his
Speaker 3: Napoleonic stuff. So it's kind of cool like that. But
Speaker 3: the Muslims broke through once, but Martell's forces were able
Speaker 3: to push them back, and after hard brutal fighting, they
Speaker 3: fled because Odo took some of his troops around, burned
Speaker 3: a baggage, burned and looted the baggage for the Union soldiers,
Speaker 3: and they were like, oh shit, we gotta go back,
Speaker 3: we gotta do that. It turned into a route and
Speaker 3: probably seven thousand or so of them died or were
Speaker 3: injured in the in fleeing, and they fled back south
Speaker 3: of the Pyrenees, and they stayed there pretty much the
Speaker 3: whole time. They did push a little bit north up
Speaker 3: to Oral later through Narbone, but they didn't go through
Speaker 3: the Pyrenees into the center of France again. And yeah,
Speaker 3: that's pretty much what we know. Oh and most military
Speaker 3: historians now agree that Martel's the thing that actually helped
Speaker 3: Martel win the battle more than anything else was that
Speaker 3: they got the jump on they they they were able
Speaker 3: to sneak around and get the jump on Gaffiki and
Speaker 3: his troops, which Gefficke should have sent out scouts, but
Speaker 3: you know, it does happen sometimes. Anyway, they were off
Speaker 3: on a bad foot, and yeah, the Christians one a
Speaker 3: very sound victory, and that was that. Now here's you
Speaker 3: know that that that's that's the thing. So after this,
Speaker 3: eleanor Charles Martel and especially his his family starts embellishing
Speaker 3: this and they start and almost immediately it starts to
Speaker 3: take on a little more mythic proportions. And yeah, so
Speaker 3: they're just all of a sudden, it's not just we
Speaker 3: thought we fought off a rating party. They went back.
Speaker 3: You know, they clearly weren't trying to do territorial expansion
Speaker 3: that far, because they would have garrisoned all those towns.
Speaker 3: They had gone like a Bordeaux and garrisoning Bordeaux would
Speaker 3: have taken it. You know, it would have taken a
Speaker 3: lot of minute. It doesn't matter how many, but you know,
Speaker 3: they're not doing that. So eleanor what is what is
Speaker 3: Martel's spin on this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Martel's spin on it. It's like, what's so
Speaker 2: kind of.
Speaker 1: Crucial about this as well is that, you know, if
Speaker 1: you go back to the Chronicle of seven fifty four, also,
Speaker 1: they're like Martell had way more men. Yes, that's like
Speaker 1: the one of the really important things about it. They're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but then they found them and they killed them and
Speaker 1: like thank.
Speaker 2: You, right. But so Martel's spin on this is that.
Speaker 1: Basically this was, you know, an expansionist army that's coming
Speaker 1: over the Pyrenees, and there's just so many of them.
Speaker 1: It's just like the most the most omids that have
Speaker 1: ever been Like sometimes you get figures up to like
Speaker 1: almost half a million, which is like, okay, is that
Speaker 1: every umiate.
Speaker 3: Like not only every umid in the peninsula, but also
Speaker 3: a sizeable chunk of all the Christian and Jewish men
Speaker 3: in the area. Yeah, it was like, yeah, let's go
Speaker 3: do this. This is great. I fucking love fighting frenchmen.
Speaker 1: And like, oh, famously, like the Ubid armies are made
Speaker 1: up of like the Arabic.
Speaker 2: Guys, because that's exactly because of the.
Speaker 1: Stratisfied nature of society and how it works, you know,
Speaker 1: or like sometimes the berber guys, but you know, like
Speaker 1: one way or another, right and what why we know
Speaker 1: that that's definitely not the cases as you say, you know,
Speaker 1: where there are no garrisons. And if there's one fucking
Speaker 1: thing the Ubians were really good at doing, it was
Speaker 1: like garrisoning a position in order to expand, right, like
Speaker 1: kind of their thing.
Speaker 4: Sort.
Speaker 3: They would have signed the same treaties with all the
Speaker 3: other people that they signed to take over Seville and
Speaker 3: Cordoba and Barcelona. They would have signed all those same deals,
Speaker 3: but they didn't because that was not the point. And
Speaker 3: like nothing shows that like they were coming for the
Speaker 3: rest of Europe, but they were.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, this is a really useful thing
Speaker 1: for Charles Martel because basically he is in the process
Speaker 1: of dynastic expansion and dynastic creation.
Speaker 2: Right, So here we go, we.
Speaker 1: Have got a story that is going to help establish
Speaker 1: the Carolingians.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: Why is it that the carolin Jeans are fit to
Speaker 1: rule this much land? Well, they are the great defense
Speaker 1: against these expanding Islamic hords.
Speaker 2: They have a college.
Speaker 1: Don't we want an emperor et cetera, et cetera, and
Speaker 1: we are the ones who are set up well in
Speaker 1: order to do this. And now this ends up having
Speaker 1: like some shakedown effects, right, because you start getting it
Speaker 1: spread around, like we get it coming up in the
Speaker 1: Libra Pontificalis, for example, so like the Liber Pontificalis for
Speaker 1: those not in the know, is one of our great
Speaker 1: sources where it's like, this is where you get the
Speaker 1: lives of the saints, this is where you get like,
Speaker 1: this is how the papacy establishes itself is by reading
Speaker 1: by writing the Libra pontific Ellis. They're like, yeah, yo,
Speaker 1: just fyi, this is the reason why we are a
Speaker 1: good pope. So it's telling very specific religious stories and
Speaker 1: it more more particularly is attempting to tell the story
Speaker 1: on the side of Odo the Great and less less
Speaker 1: Charles Bartel, where they're like, oh, yeah, we really like
Speaker 1: Odo the Great. He's cool and he won this really
Speaker 1: great and impressive battle and isn't that incredible? Right, So
Speaker 1: they're jumping on the badwagon for particular reasons, which are
Speaker 1: you know, for the papacy, it's important to kind of
Speaker 1: establish good versus evil myth with the Muslims.
Speaker 2: You know, they're they're aye in Sicily.
Speaker 1: They're they're like, I don't I don't care for this, right,
Speaker 1: So they're telling a particular story about that. Later on,
Speaker 1: your boy Paul the Deacon, he comes up and writes
Speaker 1: about this in the History of.
Speaker 2: The Lombards, and like he's like just.
Speaker 1: Spouting off numbers for who was involved that are like
Speaker 1: in no way attached to them.
Speaker 3: Three hundred and fifty thousand Muslims, all of their teeth
Speaker 3: sharpened to the finest points. They they rip the float,
Speaker 3: and you're just like, what the fuck is that? Like
Speaker 3: the quotes from the later like stories about this are
Speaker 3: fucking insane, and I mean see how they got built up,
Speaker 3: because you know it's i mean, from a Christian perspective,
Speaker 3: it's a cool story, but like at the same time,
Speaker 3: you're just like, what the fuck is this ship?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like we're getting into like real Paul Bunny and
Speaker 1: Ass territory at this point in time where they're like,
Speaker 1: we're just making this the biggest and most outrageous story
Speaker 1: that we possibly can and so this is like big, big, big,
Speaker 1: and obviously the Carolingians are like, hell yeah, brother, that's
Speaker 1: exactly how this went down, because that's really easel for them.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things that happens is
Speaker 1: the Obians do stop kind of rating as much. But
Speaker 1: you know, as we're going to get to it's because
Speaker 1: they've got other fish to fry. You know, they're they're
Speaker 1: and they're kind of like it's not really worth the
Speaker 1: rating parties, which is all they were really trying to
Speaker 1: do was raid, right, Like.
Speaker 3: That's the fucking nerd Gibbon. Uh, he's so Edward Gibbon
Speaker 3: in the uh the The History of the Decline follow
Speaker 3: the Roman Empire says that that had had Charles fallen,
Speaker 3: the Umid Caliphate would have easily conquered a divided Europe.
Speaker 3: I need you to think about in your own mind.
Speaker 3: At this time Europe has no giant, strong entities. But
Speaker 3: I need you to just think about how many people
Speaker 3: it would take to conquer even just France, even the
Speaker 3: area that we know today is France, forgetting the isles
Speaker 3: north of that, forgetting Scandinavia, forgetting Central and Eastern Europe.
Speaker 3: Just France. It's gonna take a fuckload of people because
Speaker 3: there are a lot of human beings in that area,
Speaker 3: and there have been for a long time because it's
Speaker 3: nice to grow wheat and grapes there and people like
Speaker 3: that stuff. How like, given, I'm given's analysis obviously, but
Speaker 3: he's not stupid. He understands some of the stuff. But
Speaker 3: that like that sentence right there is like how can
Speaker 3: you have credibility after this? You could not conquer They
Speaker 3: would need two and a half times the people they
Speaker 3: took to conquer Hiberia for that probably.
Speaker 1: And like in the second first place, you're exactly right,
Speaker 1: you know, there are simply not enough omids on the
Speaker 1: face of the planet to make this possible, like we
Speaker 1: do we do not have the population, like in terms
Speaker 1: of the military numbers.
Speaker 2: To make this happen. It just it just won't do.
Speaker 1: And in the second place, don't threaten me with a
Speaker 1: good time, right, like oh no, and then what would
Speaker 1: that do given like, oh, you would still be able
Speaker 1: to like worship freely and you would be like giving
Speaker 1: your taxes to another bunch of people, like a calm
Speaker 1: the fuck down.
Speaker 2: Right, like calm the fuck down.
Speaker 3: And given thought that Christianity was the reason the Roman Empire.
Speaker 2: Fell, I'm just it's it's like it's.
Speaker 3: Such that makes sense. How I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Keeping like it's it's incredibly like.
Speaker 1: A twentieth century view of the world, which is like
Speaker 1: religion is bad, but actually like unless it's like the
Speaker 1: scariest religion is is when there is Muslim and so
Speaker 1: Christianity is better than that.
Speaker 2: But actually, like war, it's like just shut the fuck up,
Speaker 2: grow up, grow up. And it's like, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: it's all just on.
Speaker 3: The bandwagon or don't. Either you're an atheist or an
Speaker 3: agnostic or you believe in Christianity.
Speaker 2: Like whatever, yeah, whatever, it like, I get it. Englishmen,
Speaker 2: Like I get it. You are like white supremacy pilled.
Speaker 1: That's fine, Yeah, that's fine, you know, but it is
Speaker 1: very like it is the sort of thing that I
Speaker 1: can imagine like getting into an argument with like you know,
Speaker 1: online atheists about in the Ear of Our Lord two
Speaker 1: thousand and two. So it's interesting because like this this
Speaker 1: view really does shape the twentieth century view of the
Speaker 1: entire thing, but it also just is like so incredibly
Speaker 1: lacking in rigor from a historical perspective, because you know,
Speaker 1: all you got to do is go back and look
Speaker 1: at the original chronicles and they're just not saying.
Speaker 2: That that happened. Now.
Speaker 1: Mind, like the chronicles, as you said, like from the
Speaker 1: eleventh century onwards start telling this story again, like real big,
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, what else was happening in the
Speaker 1: eleventh century, Oh, the Crusades, right, And so they've got
Speaker 1: a vested interest in being like, oh yeah, they were
Speaker 1: so big, it's gary and they were going to like
Speaker 1: and they thrown to beat me up and they said that,
Speaker 1: you know, my mom was ugly, and it's just like, dude,
Speaker 1: grow up, you know, like it's it's fine, Like you
Speaker 1: can see exactly what it's doing.
Speaker 2: And it's this useful myth.
Speaker 1: And it's a useful foundational myth and a useful myth
Speaker 1: in terms of when you are attempting to send a
Speaker 1: bunch of French guys to the Aunt to attempt to
Speaker 1: take over Jerusalem, right, because this is like it creates
Speaker 1: a story wherein the Muslims are at war specifically with Franks,
Speaker 1: you know, with with the French French speakers, and so
Speaker 1: now it's like, oh, yeah, so now go take the
Speaker 1: fight to them, right, turn about as fair play sort
Speaker 1: of sort of by the.
Speaker 3: Here, yeah, and I mean, like you like I meant
Speaker 3: to read it earlier, but like the the brief synopsis
Speaker 3: of this battle in the Chronicle of seven fifty four
Speaker 3: really is one of the most even sided accounts you
Speaker 3: will find. There's very little hyperbole in here. God does
Speaker 3: not miraculously come down and touch the shields of the Christians.
Speaker 3: It it goes quote, while Abdul Abdul all Rothmann Algafiki,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry God, They okay, sorry, While I'm Uel Robin
Speaker 3: Algafiki was pursuing Odo, he decided to despoil Tours by
Speaker 3: destroying its palaces and burning its churches. There he confronted
Speaker 3: the consul of the Consul of Austrasia, which is Europe,
Speaker 3: by the name of Charles, a man who, having proved
Speaker 3: himself to be a warrior from his youth and an
Speaker 3: expert in things military, had been summoned by Odo. After
Speaker 3: each side had tormented the other with raids for almost
Speaker 3: seven days, they finally prepared their battle lines and fought fiercely.
Speaker 3: The northern peoples remained as immobile as a wall, holding
Speaker 3: together like a glacier in the cold regions. In the
Speaker 3: blink of an eye, they anihilate the annihilated the Arabs
Speaker 3: with the sword. The people of Austrasia, greater in number
Speaker 3: of soldiers and formidably armed, killed the king Algafiki when
Speaker 3: they found him, striking him in the chest, but suddenly,
Speaker 3: within sight of the countless tints of the Arabs, the
Speaker 3: Franks despicably sheathed their swords, postponing the fight until the
Speaker 3: next day, since night have fallen during the battle. Rising
Speaker 3: from their own camp and dawned, the Europeans saw the
Speaker 3: tents and canopies of the Arabs all arranged just as
Speaker 3: they appeared the day before, not knowing that they were empty,
Speaker 3: thinking that inside them were the Saracen forces ready for battle,
Speaker 3: they sent officers to reconnoiter and discovered that all the
Speaker 3: troops had left. They had indeed fled silently in the
Speaker 3: night in type formation, returning to their own country. That's it.
Speaker 3: That's the whole thing, you know, And that's it. So
Speaker 3: there's nothing of like this, you know, Like Charles gave
Speaker 3: a big stirring speech about how like they had to
Speaker 3: rescue European Christendom, which was not a thing then at all,
Speaker 3: a thing until the Crusades, at least not the way
Speaker 3: we think about it. Actually probably until after the that's
Speaker 3: a different story, but you know that was definitely not
Speaker 3: a thing at this time. And yeah, it's just, you know,
Speaker 3: it's a battle and it happened, and it was important
Speaker 3: in the sense that it like stopped this push, and
Speaker 3: it was a very large battle, having between forty and
Speaker 3: fifty thousand soldiers, and in the early Middle Ages, that
Speaker 3: was like that's a lot, a million, a million, but yeah,
Speaker 3: like it was, Yeah, it's it's just a battle. And
Speaker 3: I think, you know, I don't want you to think
Speaker 3: that we're just harping on this to harp on it,
Speaker 3: but like it is important, and like people see this
Speaker 3: as like some kind of like hinge point in history
Speaker 3: for like the turning of this relationship, and it's not
Speaker 3: the hit that hinge point is probably the first crusade,
Speaker 3: but this is a you know, the entire Deis vault
Speaker 3: Opus day, let's redo the crusades thing. Yes, it's obviously
Speaker 3: based on their crusades, but it also goes back to
Speaker 3: this stuff. And oh, I'm Charles Martell and blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: And look, I'll give Martella's credit. He was a good warrior,
Speaker 3: he was apparently a good leader, of soldiers. He did
Speaker 3: good stuff Martel, which means the Hammer is a fucking
Speaker 3: great name. I'll give him that. But you know, yeah
Speaker 3: he won and that and it was that, there was
Speaker 3: you know, all this other shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fully, you know, like shout out to Charles the
Speaker 1: Hammer Martel. Great sounds sounds like a fucking wrestling name.
Speaker 2: Absolutely love it does.
Speaker 3: Yeah it does.
Speaker 2: But you know we have to harp on about it
Speaker 2: because this is so misused.
Speaker 1: You know, this is exactly one of those things where
Speaker 1: it's like massive hinge point and it's like, babe, it
Speaker 1: was a skirmish, right, It was a skirmish between a
Speaker 1: rating party and a better and more equipped force who
Speaker 1: were reinforcing what would be the frontier.
Speaker 2: That's it, and it is you know, useful in.
Speaker 1: Terms of like a dynastic turning point if what we're
Speaker 1: talking about is, well, how does propaganda work? And how
Speaker 1: did these things work? But you should be fundamentally fucking
Speaker 1: embarrassed of yourself as a historian, and if you believe the.
Speaker 2: Proper yid.
Speaker 1: Like that, that's our entire job, our whole last job
Speaker 1: is to be like, yeah, why are they saying this?
Speaker 2: Who said it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And follow the breadcrumb's bag. But if like you're you're
Speaker 1: taking anybody at face value, let alone the fucking Carolingians,
Speaker 1: then babe, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, media studies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, not good versus evil, not anything
Speaker 3: like that. It's just you got pushed back past the
Speaker 3: Pyrenees and that's where you stayed. They didn't try to
Speaker 3: push them off the peninsula. They could even if they
Speaker 3: won't even finest wish, he did not have enough soldiers
Speaker 3: to remove all of them, like, and at this point
Speaker 3: they had been in some parts of the peninsula for
Speaker 3: over twenty years. Like it not. You know, that's that's
Speaker 3: an you know, that's an adult lifetime to many too
Speaker 3: many people, you know this time, you know, it's it's not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that it's fundamentally also, that particular
Speaker 1: view just misunderstands how multicultural life was on the peninsula,
Speaker 1: how many Christians there were. And then these Christians are
Speaker 1: not like going to Charles and being like, oh Charles,
Speaker 1: please free us, it's like to go do it. They're
Speaker 1: just like, oh, yeah, whatever, Like these these things don't
Speaker 1: matter to that, you know, like we don't have correspondence
Speaker 1: being like I beg you to break my chains or whatever,
Speaker 1: so you know, and and there would be and we
Speaker 1: would have great sources for work because we have great
Speaker 1: sources from the Iberian Peninsula at this point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they just don't the all the stuff doesn't add
Speaker 3: up to anything more than a rating party was stopped.
Speaker 3: It was in central France, which is a long way
Speaker 3: like they were a long way north of Bordeaux at
Speaker 3: that point anyway, But like, you know, you're just not
Speaker 3: it's it's not that thing. It's just a battle that
Speaker 3: took place and they lost, and they would win future battles,
Speaker 3: and you know that was that, and yeah, it's the
Speaker 3: thing about it. You know. The stuff that's interesting about
Speaker 3: all of this is just that the way that we
Speaker 3: think about Spain, Spain is a late forming thing, even
Speaker 3: like even in the early modern period. That is, like
Speaker 3: you know, Castilla, Cassias and Aragon and all that sort
Speaker 3: of shit, and they're like different principalities, different kingdoms, and
Speaker 3: eventually they got meshed together. But like that's not a
Speaker 3: thing at this time. And these people weren't yearning to
Speaker 3: be freed from the yoke or whatever. It was just
Speaker 3: they ruled, they doesn't you know, you gotta pay taxes anyway.
Speaker 3: Does it matter if it's a use or a you know,
Speaker 3: tex on X, what's the difference? Who cares? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I think that if you spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time in Spain now, which I do because I love it,
Speaker 1: it becomes very clear when you go to different regions
Speaker 1: that they're really fucking different, right, Like a Catalonia is
Speaker 1: nothing like castille Leon, which is nothing like you know, Galicia,
Speaker 1: or like, you know, you go to Granada and things
Speaker 1: are just completely different. Again, the accents are really different country.
Speaker 3: They fucking language isolict It is not connected to anything else,
Speaker 3: like to Spanish, what are you like?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're Celtic. You know they have Yeah, yeah
Speaker 2: you don't you know who fucking longs to be freed
Speaker 2: from the yoke of whatever?
Speaker 1: The Castilians like sorry, the Catalonians and the Basque and
Speaker 1: the Basque want the fuck out, like they're like, I'm
Speaker 1: not Spanish hello. So you know, like all of these
Speaker 1: ideas are so modern where it's like none of them
Speaker 1: how you know this idea or this wish you know,
Speaker 1: like you know, go to Barcelona right now and ask,
Speaker 1: you know, an actual Catalonian what they fucking think of
Speaker 1: Spain and you know, get ready for them to like
Speaker 1: go there to tell.
Speaker 3: You how much it's just a continuation of uh, Franco's
Speaker 3: bullshit and all that. And I mean then some a
Speaker 3: lot of ways it is there some ways at least
Speaker 3: I know, but like, yeah, they don't. It's not a
Speaker 3: you like if you think like people in America talk
Speaker 3: about secession like ho ho, Texas is going to succeed
Speaker 3: or whatever. Like no, they the Catalans and the Basque
Speaker 3: people's they are like, dear EU, please let us hold
Speaker 3: sovereignty referendum on this, and the and the EU is
Speaker 3: being cross.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: Other people are talking to you and they're being like,
Speaker 3: don't do that, because that's gonna get like because if
Speaker 3: that happens, an idea and like you're gonna and uh, you.
Speaker 1: Know, Breton like the Brittany's probably got a guy like
Speaker 1: the Breton Brittany.
Speaker 3: How how many German states are just gonna be like
Speaker 3: I don't know about all this, dog I'm good, you know,
Speaker 3: like it's yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's you know, it's
Speaker 3: a fine and weird place. Spain as like a corporeal entity.
Speaker 3: Exists for like, I don't know, it's still around I
Speaker 3: guess like five hundred or so years, but everybody's been
Speaker 3: trying to leave it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like can I go now?
Speaker 3: Yeah. Surprisingly, though after the Battle of Tours, you know it, Uh,
Speaker 3: it turns a little it gets a little chill for
Speaker 3: for a while. In seven thirty five, the Umians did
Speaker 3: push a little farther north of Narbonne to Oral. Uh.
Speaker 3: But they're going to lose all of that shortly anyway,
Speaker 3: due to a big thing that happens not anywhere near Spain.
Speaker 3: But yeah, in in later on, around like seven forty,
Speaker 3: the Berbers there's a Berber revolt in North Africa and
Speaker 3: that extended up into Iberia, and the Berber rebels in
Speaker 3: North Africa were able to kind of carve something out
Speaker 3: for them, but the Umids put down the ones in Iberia.
Speaker 3: But things started to break up because the wider Umid
Speaker 3: Califate was not doing so great, and by seven two
Speaker 3: Alandulous starts to break apart into some smaller competing states
Speaker 3: and fiefdoms, though they were still Muslim in character. But yeah,
Speaker 3: about this time, perhaps unsurprisingly, it's really hard to administer
Speaker 3: the seventh largest land empire in history in the eighth century.
Speaker 3: That's not a very easy thing to do, especially when
Speaker 3: it spread out over such a vast distance. It's not like,
Speaker 3: you know, if you were in China where you could
Speaker 3: control like you know, it's not it's not technically the
Speaker 3: same thing. So the Umids, uh, man, it's uh, they
Speaker 3: just fall apart. And when they fall apart, they fall
Speaker 3: apart fucking hard. What what happened to the Umids? Why
Speaker 3: why couldn't they Well.
Speaker 1: So what happens with the Ubiids is, uh, they be
Speaker 1: living too high on the hog. They were very busy
Speaker 1: being fancy little lads.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Last time we talked about how the real plum jobs
Speaker 1: are given to their cousins, you know, and and they're
Speaker 1: really spending a bunch of time trying to keep it
Speaker 1: in the family. And the reason they're keeping it in
Speaker 1: the families they're wealthy and they enjoy being fancy and
Speaker 1: having a bath and eating a fig and like what's
Speaker 1: over there. And so when we have the Berber revolts,
Speaker 1: this is like the first symptom where what the Berbers
Speaker 1: are saying when they do this is you are insufficiently pious.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you like.
Speaker 2: You be drinking.
Speaker 1: You are, you know, just not actually caring that much
Speaker 1: about the tenants of Islam. And you are oppressing all
Speaker 1: of us and like taking our taxes and you're not
Speaker 1: you're not giving back what we need. So right, Like
Speaker 1: that's that's something the Berbers are saying. Meanwhile, back on
Speaker 1: the Arabian Peninsula, there are a group called the Abbasids
Speaker 1: who heartily agree with this, right, and they're they're jumping
Speaker 1: on the back wagon, right. And the Abasids are coming
Speaker 1: to us via the prophet Muhammad's uncle and that is
Speaker 1: who they are coming out of. So they've got like
Speaker 1: a nice pedigree to them as well, so they can
Speaker 1: trace themselves back to the prophet brilliant great And right
Speaker 1: after the Berber revolts, they're like, can we do that?
Speaker 3: Oh shit, okay, right, and.
Speaker 2: So and they go in on it.
Speaker 1: And in particular they are really able to exploit the
Speaker 1: discontent with the Umiads on the peninsula. Like in particular,
Speaker 1: they're drawing from the heartlands, you know, they they are
Speaker 1: kind of like a drawing in you know, kind of
Speaker 1: like Iran places like that. And everyone is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that. I think homeboys are too big for
Speaker 1: their breeches, and a lot of people agree with them.
Speaker 2: A lot of people agree with them.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, okay, like whatever, let's like let's let's
Speaker 1: topple these guys. And the other thing that the Abysins
Speaker 1: do really well is they go to all the non
Speaker 1: believers and they're like, damn, doesn't it suck how you're
Speaker 1: like a second class citizen but your parents around here,
Speaker 1: and like people are like, damn, yeah, that does suck.
Speaker 1: I would like to not be a second class citizen.
Speaker 1: So you get the non believers on board as well,
Speaker 1: which is absolutely key to such an incredibly disparate empire. Right, So,
Speaker 1: and they just fall over like a deck of cards.
Speaker 1: Now again, like as we were saying about the physicals
Speaker 1: in Spain, this is partially showing us like how well
Speaker 1: administered they actually were, because you just like blow and
Speaker 1: the house of card falls over. Ye you know, I
Speaker 1: guess it's just like oh, yeah, like you needed all
Speaker 1: those bits to work, and it's still really well centralized.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just kind of about dissconnect there where
Speaker 1: people from the Muslim side don't like that they're not
Speaker 1: Muslim enough, and people from the non believer side don't
Speaker 1: like how they are basically treated as completely second class.
Speaker 1: So yeah, they just go pop out in the Middle
Speaker 1: East and you know, largely across the coast of Africa
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they the unions. Man, they really thought they were
Speaker 3: something special and that they were the only ones, and
Speaker 3: that wrinkled a lot of people. Plus like, how are
Speaker 3: they ever going to keep control of the fucking like,
Speaker 3: how are you going to control of berbers in Morocco
Speaker 3: in Tunis in the year like seven forty, How are
Speaker 3: you going to do that? You do not have enough
Speaker 3: people to form a giant land army and an ultra
Speaker 3: giant fleet to go over like it's not like you
Speaker 3: just don't have that. And you know, they, I mean,
Speaker 3: they found out a hard lesson that many others found out,
Speaker 3: which is that regardless of what you do in Anatolia
Speaker 3: and how much you kind of burn it and everything,
Speaker 3: those walls in Contantinople, you cannot get via them, like
Speaker 3: you can't. And so they like kind of rantacked their
Speaker 3: Anatolia and got to the walls and were like fuck.
Speaker 3: And then they immediately got pushed out of Anatolia again.
Speaker 2: And that's where they were putting all their energy.
Speaker 1: They were putting all their energy into, like let's go
Speaker 1: fuck with Constantinople.
Speaker 2: And it's like, maybe, why don't you just like keep
Speaker 2: people happy? And they didn't want to. But that's you know,
Speaker 2: Empires their expansionist by nature.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I mean the uh, the the Abbosid
Speaker 3: Caliphate is just it's just a slightly smaller version of
Speaker 3: the Umids. And they start to take over in about
Speaker 3: seven fifty and they are going to rule lands throughout
Speaker 3: the Middle East, North Africa, and West Asia until twelve
Speaker 3: when the Mongols when he ron when Laku comes through
Speaker 3: the Mongols and just sieges and decimates bag Dad. But yeah,
Speaker 3: it's Sia uh siya Umid's They there was a huge
Speaker 3: purge at the end and they thought they got everyone,
Speaker 3: but there was you know, there was just one guy.
Speaker 3: Just one guy escaped and he was like fuck that shit.
Speaker 3: I do not want to die. I do not want
Speaker 3: to uh. I don't want to go out like that.
Speaker 3: And he took uh, you know, he secreted himself across
Speaker 3: the Mediterranean. His name was Abdu r Robin. The first
Speaker 3: he fled and uh he landed in Spain with his
Speaker 3: followers drummed up some more follows, defeated the leader of
Speaker 3: the small Emirate of Cordeba at the time, and over
Speaker 3: the next twenty five years, proceeded to unify Iberia after
Speaker 3: they've broken out into the competing fiefdom. So there's one
Speaker 3: in like Barcelona, Cordoba, I think zaragosas something like that.
Speaker 3: There were more and they he rolled them up over
Speaker 3: twenty five years and established the Umid state of Cordobo,
Speaker 3: which lasted from seven fifty six to ten thirty one.
Speaker 3: And yeah, they got.
Speaker 1: It, did because they theyave it the Mosquita and we
Speaker 1: love the Mosquito folks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it gave us. You know, it's funny that
Speaker 3: they just like turn these negative they just turned these
Speaker 3: negative externalities into to this thing, and the Umids look
Speaker 3: like they're all but lost. And then like it's some
Speaker 3: fucking movie. The last son who was stuffed out of
Speaker 3: the palace in like a box. I don't know if
Speaker 3: that's true, but like whatever, and they shoved him on
Speaker 3: a boat. He goes lands in Spain in the last place,
Speaker 3: like the farthest place away where the abbassets can't really
Speaker 3: attack him, and takes over Iberia in twenty five years,
Speaker 3: and even with all that upheaval, even with the Yumid
Speaker 3: stick breaking into constituent parts for a while, none of
Speaker 3: the Christians tried to push them off the.
Speaker 2: They don't care.
Speaker 3: They didn't care.
Speaker 2: That was the point.
Speaker 3: The whole point is that at this point, if they care,
Speaker 3: they don't care enough to actively do anything about it.
Speaker 3: So it's like a minor nuisance where they just didn't
Speaker 3: care at all. Now that were there people in Asterias
Speaker 3: who care, clearly, and I'm sure there were. I'm sure
Speaker 3: there are people in South Francia who definitely cared as well,
Speaker 3: but didn't really matter. Uh, yeah, they did eventually. I
Speaker 3: think when was it. It was a couple of you.
Speaker 3: It was just after the Umi state of Cordoba was
Speaker 3: set up. They lost narbone narbone, and so they were
Speaker 3: fully pushed south of the Pyrenees. Yeah, that was its Sep.
Speaker 3: Fifty nine, So you know, from that point on, it's
Speaker 3: just south of the Pyrenees. And now we get to
Speaker 3: see how long they can hold onto this, because while
Speaker 3: it's not a thing right now, the first precursor crusade
Speaker 3: events are going to be called down on these people
Speaker 3: in the eleventh century, So hey.
Speaker 2: Check this out they lost their narbone or.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I'm a public intellectual.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, folks. As we said, I'm gonna
Speaker 6: take I'm gonna start moving a bit faster with things
Speaker 6: the next time. But yeah, we wanted to talk about
Speaker 6: this because yeah, it's neat and it's also funny that
Speaker 6: the It's very funny to me that the contemporary scholars
Speaker 6: and the postmodern scholars completely agree, and basically everyone in
Speaker 6: between who's not a specific Muslim scholar is like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 6: this is a civilizational thing, you know, like the battle
Speaker 6: of good versus evil.
Speaker 1: Man Like, I guess it looks like that if you
Speaker 1: never read a fucking book.
Speaker 3: Some fucking monk is like, yeah, they fought. Charles Martel's
Speaker 3: a dick in Odo cool, Like we kind of like Odo,
Speaker 3: I do. I think he's very interesting. That's why I
Speaker 3: wrote the intro about him, because I just find like,
Speaker 3: he's like cool, I'm gonna allie with them. Oh fuck
Speaker 3: the guy I allied with his idiot. Oh fuck, they
Speaker 3: took my daughter into a harem of.
Speaker 2: Oh there's the reason why he gets to be at
Speaker 2: the great that's all that is true.
Speaker 3: Hmmm, that is true. I like uh. I like Odo
Speaker 3: though uh he abdicated when into a monastery, which I
Speaker 3: always think is a fun way for people to And yeah,
Speaker 3: as I said, next time we'll be back. We'll talk
Speaker 3: about the rest of the Umiad state of Cordova and
Speaker 3: all that. And then uh, when this kind of does
Speaker 3: start to become in a European Christendom thing and they
Speaker 3: start getting old, up jumped and up aty about these things,
Speaker 3: but yeah, we'll get uh, we'll get to that, Eleanor
Speaker 3: what's going on with you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean at the minute, not much checked me
Speaker 1: out on the social at going medieval. I made a
Speaker 1: good and Or joke last night, and I'm very proud. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very you know, special interest overlap. I think you should
Speaker 1: leave an and.
Speaker 2: Or together at last.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, I got a lot of things
Speaker 1: in the work, none of which have come to the fruition.
Speaker 1: But if you follow me on the socials, you can
Speaker 1: see there when they come out. So yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: smart thing to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you can find me on the social media.
Speaker 3: Luca's amazing. You can find my old show about Star
Speaker 3: Wars called A People's History of the Old Republic. If
Speaker 3: you want to check that out and hear me gap.
Speaker 3: You can listen to it wherever you're listening to this otherwise.
Speaker 3: Thank y'all so much and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 5: By