1 00:00:03,759 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Hi, This is Troy Kara from Omaha, Nebraska. I play 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,119 at Westwood Heights. This is episode number one thousand and three. 3 00:00:11,279 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 2: Both my dad and Tony were obsessed with putters, and 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,160 my dad until the end. He ended up designing putters 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,839 the end of his life for like the last seven 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,519 years for a company called sax Parenti and they're kind 7 00:00:24,519 --> 00:00:27,679 of high end putters. My dad with Callaway when they 8 00:00:27,679 --> 00:00:31,399 finally moved to Carlsbad kind of developed the first production 9 00:00:31,559 --> 00:00:35,520 milled putters in the industry. But he and Tony just 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,640 loved putters. And what was interesting about Tony and my 11 00:00:39,759 --> 00:00:43,320 dad is they were both historians of the game and 12 00:00:43,439 --> 00:00:47,000 so what they were always doing, and this is kind 13 00:00:47,039 --> 00:00:51,119 of the reason for Hickory Stick is all their designs 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:56,000 honored the past with the latest technology of the present. 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,239 Speaker 1: Tony Manzoni and Jean Parente's father grew up playing golf 16 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:10,519 together then started Callaway. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, 17 00:01:10,599 --> 00:01:13,799 tips and insights from great golf minds to help you 18 00:01:13,879 --> 00:01:18,120 lower your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, 19 00:01:18,439 --> 00:01:21,920 Fred Green. Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast. 20 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,799 Speaker 2: Gene Fred, it's pleasure to be here. 21 00:01:25,239 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: It's great to hear from you. This is so outrageous. 22 00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:36,079 Now you've made a career in golf, even with your dad, right, 23 00:01:36,359 --> 00:01:41,000 you have a very interesting, fascinating and now important career 24 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,519 in golf. And we'll get to that, I promise, right, 25 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,040 But where I want to start. You did an episode 26 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,799 of one of your podcasts or a video recently and 27 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:58,120 you mentioned Tony Manzoni. We here on Golf Smarter are 28 00:01:58,159 --> 00:02:03,760 obsessed with Okay, I'm obsessed with Tony manze Tony was 29 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,080 on the show a dozen times until he passed away, 30 00:02:08,719 --> 00:02:11,759 and each year to start the golf season, I get 31 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,759 such great response from the audience every time he's on 32 00:02:16,759 --> 00:02:20,759 that Each year since he passed away, I'll run all 33 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,400 of his episodes in a row every Friday, and we're 34 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,319 in the midst of that now to start off the 35 00:02:27,319 --> 00:02:32,879 golf season. Because his instruction, his method of the loss fundamental, 36 00:02:34,479 --> 00:02:37,199 has been so effective for so many people. His book 37 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,120 we got it back in print, his video I distribute 38 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,599 from here, and really the only places you can find 39 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,280 the only place you can find anything on Tony Manzoni 40 00:02:48,479 --> 00:02:52,159 is on our website. He just didn't care about that stuff. 41 00:02:53,159 --> 00:02:57,879 It was you know, after his time, and you mentioned 42 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,800 him that your dad knew him and I knew him and. 43 00:03:02,719 --> 00:03:06,719 Speaker 2: You knew it. Oh yeah, yeah, very very close with Tony. 44 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:12,840 I mean it, Tony is part of my origin story 45 00:03:13,159 --> 00:03:19,599 in the golf in history and so so if you 46 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,719 have a few minutes, I'll go like way back. It's 47 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,000 it's very interesting. 48 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: I've got forty five easily, so I just anything. 49 00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: You got this. This this story is really fascinating. So 50 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,039 my father, who just passed away in January, I'm sorry, 51 00:03:36,199 --> 00:03:38,919 it was eighty five, lived a full life. He and 52 00:03:39,039 --> 00:03:45,199 Tony were junior golfers together in San Jose and they 53 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,280 grew up together. And but they both were I don't 54 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,439 want to say kids from the wrong side of the tracks, 55 00:03:51,439 --> 00:03:55,840 but they were both working class kids who found golf 56 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:01,120 and my dad when he graduated. So to back up, 57 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,039 my brother and I the last six years of my 58 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,039 dad's life, we took him up to the at and 59 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,800 t at Pebble every year because my dad, when he 60 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,680 was an assistant pro up at Los Altos, his job 61 00:04:11,719 --> 00:04:14,120 on Mondays was to take the members down and play 62 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,480 either Pebble or Cyprus or Spanish Bay. And that literally 63 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,160 was his job as an assistant pro. So we're sitting 64 00:04:21,199 --> 00:04:24,639 there one day and he goes, do you know how 65 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,360 you got in the golf industry the reason we're sitting here? 66 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,920 And I said no, and he said Wino George. And 67 00:04:30,959 --> 00:04:35,199 I said, who the hell's Whino George. So he starts 68 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,399 telling me the story. My grandfather, who was an immigrant 69 00:04:38,439 --> 00:04:43,360 from Italy. His family moved to San Jose, he grew up. 70 00:04:43,519 --> 00:04:47,680 He worked in the cannery his entire life, and that's 71 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:50,120 just what she did as an Italian. That came over 72 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,560 my dad in the fifties. After graduating from high school, 73 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:59,199 he played against Tony high school golf with Tony. He 74 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,199 starts working the cannery and hates it. It's gonna quit, 75 00:05:03,439 --> 00:05:06,040 gonna go somewhere else. And one day there's this guy 76 00:05:06,079 --> 00:05:09,439 standing next to him, this older guy on the line, 77 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,160 and his name's Wino George. And he was a caddie 78 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,720 at Los Altos and during the winter months he would 79 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,160 when when the course was closed down or no one 80 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,160 was playing, he'd work at the cannery. And he turns 81 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,600 to my dad and says, you're a golfer, right, never 82 00:05:24,639 --> 00:05:27,279 said a word to my dad previously. My dad said yes, 83 00:05:27,519 --> 00:05:29,959 and he goes, get your best pair of slacks. I've 84 00:05:29,959 --> 00:05:32,240 got you an interview for an assistant pro job. This 85 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,959 is like nineteen fifty six, fifty seven. My dad shows up, 86 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,600 gets the job, and starts off in the golf industry. 87 00:05:40,959 --> 00:05:43,680 He and Tony are running parallel by the way, They're 88 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,759 both underage at the age of like seventeen or eighteen, 89 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,399 drinking at a bar called Parenas in downtown San Jose. Together, 90 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,800 Tony becomes an assistant pro. Tony gets hired by Ken 91 00:05:56,879 --> 00:05:59,759 van Turrey. Just just show you the difference in the 92 00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:03,040 world at this time. Ken Venturry US Open Winter nineteen 93 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,279 sixty four, and I think Tony moved down to the desert. 94 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,839 In nineteen sixty nine nineteen seventy, Ken Venturrey was managing 95 00:06:09,879 --> 00:06:14,000 the pro shop at Mission Hills. You needed like a second, 96 00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:17,240 you know, career, even though you were a US Open Winter. 97 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,759 So Venturrey hires Tony. Tony comes down starts working at 98 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,519 Mission Hills for Venturrey. Tony calls my dad and goes, 99 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,680 you have to get down here. This is golf heaven, 100 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:37,480 and so my dad comes down, falls in love with 101 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,199 the place. Tony starts working with Venturrey finds out there's 102 00:06:42,199 --> 00:06:46,920 an opening at this course called Whitewater Country Club. Ventury 103 00:06:46,959 --> 00:06:50,000 recommends my dad for the job. My dad becomes a 104 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:55,319 head pro there and they renew their like childhood friendship 105 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,720 down in the desert in the seventies when they were 106 00:07:00,759 --> 00:07:03,319 just running a buck. I mean, you know, Tony was 107 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,360 like the number two golf pro to Sinatra. They just 108 00:07:07,399 --> 00:07:12,240 and as wacky as this is. Larry Parina ends up 109 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,000 moving down to Palm Springs and opening up an Italian 110 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,199 restaurant called Parinas that my dad and Tony would frequent 111 00:07:18,279 --> 00:07:19,759 like two to three times a week. 112 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,839 Speaker 1: Wait, and that knows something. Larry Parino was. 113 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 2: Larry Parina was the guy who wonned the bar in 114 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,199 San Jose that they used to drink underage at in 115 00:07:30,839 --> 00:07:34,759 the whole crew ends up down in Palm Springs, and 116 00:07:36,399 --> 00:07:41,600 so my dad and Tony are just thickest thieves. In 117 00:07:41,639 --> 00:07:47,079 the seventies, my dad ends up Whitewater Country Club ends up. 118 00:07:47,319 --> 00:07:49,680 It turns out owned by a holding company out of 119 00:07:49,759 --> 00:07:53,639 Chicago that's backed by the Mob, and like Mayor Daily 120 00:07:53,639 --> 00:07:56,879 would come a couple times a year, and my dad 121 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,319 became golf pro to the Mob and Tony he knew 122 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,360 the mob, and everybody had all these connections. I mean 123 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:07,800 the seventies and Palm Springs was wild wild. 124 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,759 Speaker 1: Tony has alluded. Tony did allude to stories about the 125 00:08:12,959 --> 00:08:15,399 craziness and the rat pack. 126 00:08:15,759 --> 00:08:17,839 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, did you mention the mob? 127 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,879 Speaker 1: He did talk about Sinatra a bunch. 128 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So he and Sinatra were close, Like my 129 00:08:22,879 --> 00:08:25,319 dad would tell me stories about he'd be over Tony's 130 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,720 watching a Super Bowl and Sinatra would just pop in, 131 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,199 sit on the couch, have a beer with the rest 132 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,639 of the guys. I mean, you got to remember, Palm 133 00:08:33,639 --> 00:08:38,039 Springs was a small town. It was only twenty thousand people, 134 00:08:38,279 --> 00:08:40,639 and it was only twenty thousand people during the height 135 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:46,039 of the season, you know, for Memorial Day until Halloween. 136 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,600 The place was a ghost town. And so there were 137 00:08:50,639 --> 00:08:52,879 only a few places to go in a few places 138 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,559 people that you knew, and so it was really common 139 00:08:56,639 --> 00:09:00,799 to run into at the time, aless celebrities and what 140 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,759 do they all want to do? They all wanted to golf. 141 00:09:02,799 --> 00:09:05,360 And my dad was a really good teaching pro and 142 00:09:05,399 --> 00:09:08,480 Tony was a really good teaching pro, and so both 143 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:14,840 of them had contacts and connections into just a world 144 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,399 I tell people all the time, growing up in the 145 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:23,360 desert was like nothing else you could ever imagine, because 146 00:09:23,399 --> 00:09:28,000 it was the playground to the stars. It was almost 147 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:33,279 it was almost like a fantasy land in so many aspects. 148 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,399 So through the seventies, Tony and my dad are super close, 149 00:09:38,399 --> 00:09:40,639 and then they both decide that they want to be 150 00:09:40,879 --> 00:09:43,720 entrepreneurs and that they want to create a golf club company. 151 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,960 And so there was another golf pro named Dave Reardon, 152 00:09:47,159 --> 00:09:50,200 and the three of them decided to create this company 153 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,279 called Hickory Stick USA. And what it was was it 154 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,000 was a dowl of hickory that they were going to 155 00:09:57,159 --> 00:09:59,759 drill a hole in and put a steel shaft in. 156 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,480 It looked like an old hickory stick, but it had 157 00:10:02,519 --> 00:10:07,679 this stability. They started this business in my parents' garage 158 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,919 and they had these giant vats that they would pressurize 159 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,039 the wood. And I remember this as a kid. It 160 00:10:14,159 --> 00:10:15,679 was just insane. 161 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: Howld me. 162 00:10:17,879 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: I'm like eight ten and and they're in there with 163 00:10:22,759 --> 00:10:25,759 chemicals mixing, and looking back on it, they had no 164 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,120 idea what they were doing, but they were. They were 165 00:10:28,279 --> 00:10:32,919 very persistent and to make they both stopped being golf 166 00:10:32,919 --> 00:10:35,879 pros at this time. They were full on entrepreneurs and 167 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,879 to make ends meet, they would go up to Idlewild 168 00:10:38,879 --> 00:10:43,080 and chop Wood for like two to three miles in 169 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,120 the winter time, and Tony and my dad would come 170 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,360 back with these giant beards. So, I mean, we're talking 171 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:56,840 shoestring budget on this thing. So they eventually got a 172 00:10:56,879 --> 00:11:00,440 guy who really had a lot of technical experts tise 173 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,759 and manufacturing and doing things, named Dick Dela Cruz, and 174 00:11:03,799 --> 00:11:07,120 they brought him on board, and the four of them 175 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:12,240 moved the operation to Temecula and they started selling clubs 176 00:11:12,279 --> 00:11:14,879 to Neiman Marcus, and they had a putter line and 177 00:11:14,879 --> 00:11:17,799 a wedge line, and they had some irons. And one 178 00:11:17,879 --> 00:11:20,759 day there's only the four of them. I mean, this 179 00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:24,639 is a tiny, tiny, little incubator business, but they're they're 180 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,960 selling things and things are working. One day, my dad's 181 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:32,639 manning the phone and gets a cold call from this 182 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:37,039 guy named Elie Callaway who's just sold his winery and 183 00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:41,960 wants to invest in a golf club company. And he 184 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,759 becomes a primary investor and the name of the company 185 00:11:44,799 --> 00:11:48,440 becomes Calloway Hickory Stick. They move it back to Cathedral 186 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,120 City because eli was out of the desert at the time. 187 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,519 That's where he played out of and then the company 188 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:01,440 became Calloway Golf and so you know, my my father 189 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:08,399 and Tony were directly responsible for, you know, launching one 190 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,159 of the biggest names in golf. 191 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: If I remember, Tony told the story of and he 192 00:12:20,759 --> 00:12:25,279 didn't he mentioned your dad, but he talked about how 193 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:31,559 Eli Callaway made the call and when he first pitched Callaway, 194 00:12:32,399 --> 00:12:35,759 Tony said he was like, yeah, not interested. He didn't 195 00:12:35,799 --> 00:12:38,679 want to do it. And then and we just had 196 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,080 this episode like a week or so ago, I think, 197 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:50,240 and then a call came back or Tony called him 198 00:12:50,279 --> 00:12:53,480 back weeks later, months later, whatever it was, and he said, 199 00:12:53,759 --> 00:12:55,120 you sure you don't want to be part of this, 200 00:12:55,159 --> 00:12:56,679 and he goes, I'm glad you called. I've been thinking 201 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,039 about it. Yeah, I do want to get in. 202 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, is that I think? You know, the actual details, 203 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,480 I'll be honest have kind of been lost to time, 204 00:13:08,639 --> 00:13:11,120 but you know, and maybe and maybe that was the case. 205 00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:16,759 What I do know is they were in two Macula 206 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,879 at the time. Eliott just sold his winery and was interested. 207 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,000 You know, whether they accepted it the first time or not, 208 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,519 I'm not I'm not sure certain of the details, but 209 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,120 they eventually accepted it and eventually moved it down to 210 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:36,399 Cathedral City and started and it stayed as Hickory Stick 211 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,919 because I actually worked there for about two years in 212 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,200 high school. And then it kind of evolved from there 213 00:13:44,279 --> 00:13:48,759 into a kind of a full, full blown golf club company. 214 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,559 My dad and Tony were responsible for the S two 215 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,000 h two, which was a short hozzle and a transfer 216 00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:03,720 of weight and uh just milled putters together. And yeah, 217 00:14:03,799 --> 00:14:09,440 they you know, they went from two kind of haywire 218 00:14:09,799 --> 00:14:14,600 junior golfers in San Jose to starting, ah, you know, 219 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,120 a company that would end up becoming the biggest company 220 00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:18,639 in golf. 221 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: Unbelievable. What do you remember about your household? Your mom 222 00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:28,240 and dad were together through. 223 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:28,639 Speaker 2: All of us. 224 00:14:28,799 --> 00:14:34,879 Speaker 1: Okay, what do you remember about your mom and her 225 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:40,600 acceptance of you're gonna do what in the garage was? 226 00:14:40,879 --> 00:14:43,159 Is there a lot of toe tapping going on, going Okay, 227 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:44,960 you're down and you're ready to get back to work now? 228 00:14:45,759 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: It It was. It was a little stressful at times, 229 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,960 I mean, you know, and it was so Both Tony 230 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:00,399 and my dad were dreamers. They were just total dreamers. 231 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,440 But I don't think either of them necessarily was a 232 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:09,000 good blocker or tackler. So they had this giant vision, 233 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:12,519 but you know, how to enact it was a challenge, 234 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,120 and that's why they ended up bringing Dick Della Cruz 235 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,919 in who Dick ended up going to Founders and Olamar 236 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:28,919 and he's kind of an industry legend as well. And 237 00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:33,720 and then when Eli came in, what Eli brought was 238 00:15:34,279 --> 00:15:38,200 kind of, you know, a business structure he had He 239 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,399 had been a CEO at I think it was Burlington 240 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:46,799 Northern or some textile you know, giant, and so he 241 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:50,120 brought in, you know, kind of a corporate structure in 242 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,720 which Tony and my dad could work within and allowed 243 00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:56,559 them to you know, kind of design without having to 244 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:01,320 worry so much about the blocking and you know, aspects. 245 00:16:00,879 --> 00:16:03,039 Speaker 1: Of yes, creating the business itself. 246 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: Yep, exactly. 247 00:16:04,919 --> 00:16:10,679 Speaker 1: And so at what point did Tony Never gave us 248 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,600 the full story, but he did say, yeah, maybe I 249 00:16:13,679 --> 00:16:16,120 partied a little too hard during those years and my 250 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,519 game kind of fell apart. You know, maybe it was 251 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:24,399 just dreams of playing professionally on the tour and got 252 00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:35,320 railroaded by the party happening in Palm Springs with your dad. 253 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: I can tell you there was some excess going on 254 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,240 in the desert in the seventies without a doubt, and 255 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,840 didn't quite learn about that until I was older. 256 00:16:42,919 --> 00:16:45,679 Speaker 1: But really, how did you hear stories about that? 257 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,279 Speaker 2: Well, you know, you grow up and you start having 258 00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:53,279 more frank conversations with your parents about you know, things, 259 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:59,320 and like I said, it was a really really weird 260 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,919 place to grow because on the weekends sometimes it could 261 00:17:02,919 --> 00:17:05,839 be Sodom and Gomorrah, and during the week it was 262 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,839 like small town USA, you know, there was nothing going on. 263 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:12,319 And then on the weekends everybody would come down and 264 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,960 it would be their playground. So you just you saw 265 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,759 a lot of interesting stuff. And yet it was a 266 00:17:19,759 --> 00:17:22,960 small town as well, I mean a very very small town. 267 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:29,039 So it just it was a yeah, it was those guys, 268 00:17:29,079 --> 00:17:33,400 my dad and Tony, they were they had access to 269 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,519 everything because they were golf pros and they and they 270 00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:41,279 were in that you know, that world, and so yeah, 271 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,920 I could I could definitely see a loss of focus 272 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,920 because you know, and it was like my father tried 273 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,799 to make it, you know, on the Canadian tour, and 274 00:17:52,839 --> 00:17:57,880 I remember he made a fatal mistake. He decided to 275 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,920 combine trying to make it once i'mer on the Canadian 276 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,640 tour with a family vacation, and so he put us 277 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,640 all at my brother and I and my mom in 278 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,599 a van and we drove across Canada and he'd be 279 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,039 trying to do Monday morning qualifiers, you know, with the 280 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:16,160 family in tow and you know, I mean, it was. 281 00:18:16,279 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: Just how old were you at the time. 282 00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:21,599 Speaker 2: I was like seven or eight and. 283 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: Those years are we talking about? 284 00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 2: Ooh, this is like nineteen seventy four, seventy five. This 285 00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:31,599 is a really funny story. 286 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: Please. 287 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,799 Speaker 2: So so about twenty years later, maybe thirty years later, yeah, 288 00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:40,559 maybe thirty years later, I was talking to him and 289 00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:44,279 I said, I said, hey, Dad, did you ever meet 290 00:18:44,319 --> 00:18:49,279 Moe Norman? You know, you know when you when you know, 291 00:18:50,079 --> 00:18:52,680 because you know, because my dad with Callaway and then 292 00:18:52,839 --> 00:18:55,240 my dad was with all these other companies. You know, 293 00:18:55,279 --> 00:18:57,519 he had access to everybody. And he goes, yeah, you 294 00:18:57,559 --> 00:19:03,680 met him too, And I said what he said? Yeah? 295 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,200 He said, he said every hotel we stay at when 296 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,279 we were trying to qualify, he said, all the young 297 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:14,119 tour pros would go out partying and the strip clubs 298 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,119 and everything else. And he goes here, I am stuck 299 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,240 with the family, so I can't go out, and he goes. 300 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,119 Our door was always open, and he goes. Mo would 301 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,920 always be walking down the halls and see the door open, 302 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,640 and he'd come and sit down on the bed and 303 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:36,559 watch television. Oh my gosh, something that I have zero 304 00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:40,079 memory of. And I'm like, that's kind of fascinating and 305 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:45,559 disturbing at the scene time. But yeah, it just golf 306 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,519 was a it was a different animal back then. It 307 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,720 was you know, I often say, like when I got 308 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,480 started in the business, and this is after Tony and 309 00:19:55,559 --> 00:20:00,680 my dad had left Callaway. Calloway was a four million 310 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,720 dollars a year company when I started in the business. 311 00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:07,039 Cobra was bigger at six million dollars a year. They 312 00:20:07,079 --> 00:20:11,759 were tiny, little cottage industry companies here in Carlsbad or 313 00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:17,079 in San Diego. It wasn't until kind of the early 314 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,839 nineties when the big Bertha took off and then all 315 00:20:19,839 --> 00:20:22,640 of a sudden there was this infusion of technology that 316 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,759 golf really exploded. But for the most part, and you know, 317 00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:30,240 the interesting thing is kind of during this heyday that 318 00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:32,400 my dad and Tony got started, you know, the big 319 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,480 companies in the industry were Wilson, Spaulding In, McGregor, and Titleist. 320 00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:40,519 Titleist has still been around, but Wilson is kind of around, 321 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:45,160 you know, they're still holding. But Spaulding and McGregor, you know, 322 00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:51,519 long gone. So completely different landscape than what it is today. 323 00:20:58,319 --> 00:21:00,319 Speaker 1: It's crazy that you talk about, you know, the different 324 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,680 companies in which were the big ones. Interestingly, one of 325 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:09,839 my golf buddies who's also the club fitter at the 326 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:14,839 golf mart here in northern California, Nick man Manzano, he 327 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:21,440 has Barry Bonds, comes into the store and needs a fitting, 328 00:21:22,279 --> 00:21:25,640 but he's only allowed to play Wilson clubs. Yeah, and 329 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,920 so Tony has to like doctor these clubs up. So 330 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,319 the heads are right right because they were so bigcause 331 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,480 and he's like, Knick's like, you can't move on to 332 00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:37,359 a different club, No gotta play Wilson. Okay, fine, we'll 333 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:37,920 take care of it. 334 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 2: We'll make it look good. Wilson. Actually, Wilson actually makes 335 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:47,839 some good products. They just they've never had the marketing 336 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,480 that the majors have had, so it's always very difficult 337 00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:55,319 for them to compete. You know, first, they have all 338 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,079 the ways and the tailor maids and the titleists. 339 00:21:57,559 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: And Wilson doesn't just focus on golf, for Callaway is 340 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,640 not making baseballs gloves. 341 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 2: Wilson is a sporting goods bring exactly, not necessarily specifically a. 342 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,759 Speaker 1: Golf So I apologize to the golf smarter community who 343 00:22:12,759 --> 00:22:15,720 are listening on the audio right now, but I'm going 344 00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:18,839 to bring something into the picture here that I found. 345 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,559 I think I found it at a garage sale locally, 346 00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:25,799 because I lived near a course that open in the 347 00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:30,880 mid fifties in Marin County, the Marine Country Club, And 348 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,079 so it's an older community here that's aging out and 349 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,680 so there are you know, garage sales. And I pulled 350 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:45,880 this out and on it and is it backwards of course? 351 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,799 So club and I don't know if you can read 352 00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:56,920 this close, but it says handmade hickory stick Richard Parente ye, 353 00:22:58,319 --> 00:23:01,240 and then you cake down to the bottom. It's a putter. 354 00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:10,039 You can see this, yep. And on the bottom Callaway 355 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,319 the Purest by Tony Manzoni. 356 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. 357 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:22,559 Speaker 1: I remember. And it's in primo condition. It's gorgeous. Ye 358 00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:26,519 tell me about this club. I don't know anything about 359 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:29,480 it other than Tony's name and when I saw his name, like, okay, 360 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:29,759 I have. 361 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 2: To have that. So so both my dad and Tony 362 00:23:34,039 --> 00:23:37,359 were obsessed with putters, and my dad until the end. 363 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,920 He ended up designing putters the end of his life 364 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,039 for like the last seven years for a company called 365 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,799 Saxe Parenti and they're kind of high end putters. My dad, 366 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,440 my dad with Callaway when they finally moved to Carlsbad 367 00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:57,119 kind of developed the first production milled putters in the industry. 368 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,160 But he and Tony just love putters. And what was 369 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,759 interesting about Tony and my dad is they were both 370 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,720 historians of the game, and so what they were always doing, 371 00:24:10,839 --> 00:24:15,200 and this is kind of the reason for Hickory Stick 372 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:21,319 is all their designs honored the past with the latest 373 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:29,160 technology of the present. So they had a real fundamental 374 00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:33,039 understanding of how the game had progressed from an equipment 375 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,920 evolution standpoint, and there were shapes that they really loved, 376 00:24:39,079 --> 00:24:42,519 and then they would try to take modern manufacturing techniques 377 00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:47,400 to improve upon those to create a higher MOI or 378 00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:52,640 better balance point or kind of focusing the center of 379 00:24:52,680 --> 00:25:00,240 gravity to maximize the performance characteristics while retaining the class 380 00:25:00,279 --> 00:25:03,599 shapes that they had both grown up with and had 381 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,119 both been influenced by you know, looking back, you know, 382 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,920 prior to their time in the golf industry. 383 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,519 Speaker 1: Interesting, So is this club like, is this rare? Fine, 384 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,519 It's not like you looked at it and went, whoa, 385 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,400 you didn't see all that? 386 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,839 Speaker 2: Well club, I've seen, I've seen. I've seen every single 387 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,519 one of those. But it's I mean, there's not many 388 00:25:25,599 --> 00:25:28,799 out there, to be honest with you, and it is. 389 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,440 What's interesting about it is, you know a lot of people, 390 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,960 a lot of people know Callaway Golf, a lot of 391 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,000 people most people do not know the Callaway origin story. 392 00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:45,319 And that's that's what makes the club unique. Is it was, 393 00:25:45,599 --> 00:25:49,519 you know, part of the Callaway origin story prior to 394 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,160 Callaway It becoming Callaway Golf. 395 00:25:53,160 --> 00:26:00,039 Speaker 1: Interesting what happened? I mean, how at what point? And 396 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,359 Tony went over to the College of the Desert and 397 00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:10,119 started this golf management program and coaching the team and 398 00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:15,519 led them to twenty nine regional championships and a national championship. 399 00:26:15,519 --> 00:26:18,960 He had an amazing career as a coach. And again 400 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,680 every time he came on the show and just talked 401 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,000 about his method of the loss fundamental of you know, 402 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,920 being on your left side rotating from your left side 403 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,359 and doing a body swing instead of an arm swing. 404 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,920 At that point, where was your dad? 405 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 2: So they kind of they kind of split past. My 406 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,640 dad stayed in San Diego and he started after he 407 00:26:44,759 --> 00:26:48,240 left Callaway. He started working with Founders Club, which was 408 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,119 developed by Gary Adams, who started Tailor Made, and then 409 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,319 he started a company called Goldwyn Golf that was back 410 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,880 by the Shoe company out of and then he designed 411 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,559 for various companies. But he basically stayed in the golf industry, 412 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,839 whereas Tony decided that his passion was teaching and he 413 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,880 went out to cod But I can tell you, I 414 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,119 mean my dad talked to Tony like a week before 415 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,640 he passed, and you know, they stayed in touch. Tony 416 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,480 would send him kind of manuscripts of his of his books, 417 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,839 and my dad would share with me. Tony would reach out. 418 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,559 I didn't talk to Tony as frequently as my dad did, 419 00:27:34,039 --> 00:27:37,039 but whenever Tony had somebody that was, you know, trying 420 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:40,039 to get into the industry or needed something to test, 421 00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:42,279 he'd give me a call and say, hey, can you 422 00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:46,359 help this guy out? You know, And I was always obliging, 423 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,079 and so both of us, my dad obviously had a 424 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,799 much closer relationship than I did. But you know, Tony 425 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,079 was someone that I knew from you know, four or five, 426 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,359 you know, just and uh and my dad always was 427 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,640 uh obsessed with the golf swing, and so he and 428 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,640 Tony would just go down rabbit holes. And to your 429 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,480 point about the body versus the arms swing, it's really interesting. 430 00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:22,119 So my background. So I started my business thirty five 431 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:27,720 years ago, and it's robotic testing. I developed a robot 432 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,880 that the the robot at the time that I started 433 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,799 was the Iron Byron and I developed this machine the 434 00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:36,039 Golf Laboratories robot it. 435 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:40,319 Speaker 1: And I must say, Iron Byron is probably one of 436 00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:42,160 the most famous golfers in the world. 437 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 2: Yes, to put names out there everyone which which which 438 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,480 by the way, it was a total misnomer. It wasn't. 439 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,480 It wasn't Byron Nelson's swing. It just it. 440 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,799 Speaker 1: Uh, how did the name happen? 441 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 2: Someone came up with the name Iron Byron and it 442 00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:00,720 was just too difficult to and and you know, Byron 443 00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:03,440 Nelson's not gonna say anything because it looks good, but no, 444 00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:09,079 it was. It was an air driven machine. It had 445 00:29:09,079 --> 00:29:12,720 a linkage system. It just had one swing. It couldn't 446 00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:15,160 you couldn't duplicate different types of swings. But it was 447 00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:18,240 it was revolutionary at the time it was designed in 448 00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:22,039 the sixties. I came along in the early nineties, and 449 00:29:24,119 --> 00:29:25,720 I mean, but to give you an idea, I think 450 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,680 there were like twelve iron virons out there, you know, 451 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:35,000 used by the top companies I started. You know, I 452 00:29:35,119 --> 00:29:38,039 was very fortunate when I started my business in nineteen ninety. 453 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,759 You know, drivers were made out of percimmon. Golf balls 454 00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:46,759 were made out of you know, ballata material and wound. 455 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,039 There was no graphite. And in the five ten years 456 00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:54,279 of the nineties, with the Cold War ending, all of 457 00:29:54,319 --> 00:29:57,440 this new technology came into the game and they needed 458 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,920 to quantify it. And suddenly my little business became kind 459 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,640 of an avenue or a conduit to test this, and 460 00:30:05,839 --> 00:30:09,519 I started in the industry. My dad found a robot. 461 00:30:09,519 --> 00:30:13,039 It wasn't a robot. It was a machine the titleists 462 00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,039 had that was powered by a garage door spring. This 463 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,359 garage door spring would pull back and a cam would 464 00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:22,400 release a flywheel and the thing would spin around like 465 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,559 a death trap after it hit a golf ball. But 466 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,480 it worked and it was consistent, and believe it or not. 467 00:30:29,799 --> 00:30:32,680 I tested the first big berth on it with Callaway. 468 00:30:32,759 --> 00:30:34,960 They were a client of mine in Cobra, but I 469 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,960 would get criticism of my machine, both good and bad, 470 00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:41,200 and so in like nineteen ninety two, I decided to 471 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,519 build my own robot, the Golf Laboratories Robot, which I 472 00:30:45,559 --> 00:30:48,920 went with the total utilitarian name because you can't come 473 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,640 up to beat Iron Byron. But we ended up replacing 474 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:58,279 every Iron Byron and we've sold fifty five machines worldwide. 475 00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:02,359 They're used by every major manufacturer, the USGA, the RNA. 476 00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:07,720 We've developed testing standards for everyone in the industry, and 477 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:15,440 we you know now are producing media based information. I 478 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:19,519 am an ambassador and contributor to Golf Digest, so we 479 00:31:19,799 --> 00:31:24,960 just released our first series just started with them. Kind 480 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:31,240 of comparing drivers, we don't compare just this last year's driver. 481 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,359 We compare against previous two models, so you know it, 482 00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:39,079 should you upgrade if you're drivers three years old? Should 483 00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:41,599 you upgrade if you if you bought your driver last year. 484 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,400 And we do a complete comparative analysis, and sometimes you 485 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,519 should upgrade, sometimes you shouldn't. But we are trying to 486 00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:54,079 be honest and just data driven. These are the performance 487 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,799 characteristics that show the benefits. So that's been kind of 488 00:31:58,039 --> 00:32:02,240 my focus. But to tie it back, the robot can 489 00:32:02,359 --> 00:32:05,359 duplicate any golf swing from the number one player in 490 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,000 the world. For example, we test for Bryson D. Chambeau 491 00:32:09,119 --> 00:32:12,000 and set up with his swing conditions and test his 492 00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:15,559 driver so that he can see what the performance characteristics 493 00:32:15,559 --> 00:32:20,640 of his driver are under controlled conditions, and we could 494 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,559 test with the beginning golfer. But what I've learned because 495 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,160 of that is I've done a deep dive over the 496 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:35,480 last fifteen years into biomechanics and absolutely what Tony taught 497 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,039 about the body and the big muscles driving the swing 498 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,039 is one hundred percent true, not only for power, but 499 00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:48,160 also for consistency and hitting down on the ball with 500 00:32:48,319 --> 00:32:53,559 an iron ball first before impact. That in my parlance, 501 00:32:54,119 --> 00:32:57,079 is called angle of attack. And what angle of attack 502 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,759 does is angle of attack allows you to with irons, 503 00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:07,000 lower your launch angle and increase your spin, and it 504 00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:09,720 allows the ball to be more flighted as it goes 505 00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:13,640 through the air as opposed to golf balls that go 506 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,680 up high and land. Interestingly enough, you end up with 507 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,720 very similar to scent angles, say with a five iron 508 00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:23,119 or seven iron. But by hitting down on the ball 509 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,720 and having a negative angle of attack, you create more spin, 510 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,640 You cut through the wind better, so you can control 511 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,759 the ball more consistently, and then when the ball lands, 512 00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:35,680 it has more stopping power because it has a higher 513 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,920 spin rate than using the actual loft of the club 514 00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:43,960 to generate the same launch angle and similar peak trajectories. 515 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:50,559 So we've had the ability over the years. So I 516 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,400 use a foresight launch monitor with my robot, I could 517 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,799 duplicate your swing fred with your club, and then by 518 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,920 duplicating your swing, I could say, okay, what are your goals, 519 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,119 and you tell me your goals, and I could say 520 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,359 you're at seventy percent of your goal or you're at 521 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,119 ninety percent of your goal based upon your swing time. 522 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,440 Let's say your three degrees outside in with a two 523 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:18,519 degree open face and your two degrees down. That's kind 524 00:34:18,519 --> 00:34:22,000 of a typical outside in slice. Right. I can take 525 00:34:22,039 --> 00:34:25,519 the robot and then rotate it to three degrees inside 526 00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:29,559 out and go positive to from negative to on the 527 00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:32,519 attack angle with a slight closed face, and if you're 528 00:34:32,559 --> 00:34:36,199 at ninety miles an hour, just by changing those two 529 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,480 two types of swing, I can gain you thirty yards 530 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,679 in distance without increasing your clubhead speed at all. And 531 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,320 it's just all everything in my world is angles. And 532 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:53,440 so you know, someone like Tony and writing this book, 533 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,920 I would listen to his explanations and then my brain 534 00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:02,119 would take that and do math on that and say, okay, 535 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,360 this is what he's describing. Let's replicate that. And then 536 00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:11,360 what in my world everything's quantifiable because of a launch monitor. 537 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,360 And if you if I know what your path is, 538 00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:18,480 what your angle of attack is, what your impact point is, 539 00:35:18,519 --> 00:35:21,760 and what your face angle is, I can absolutely tell 540 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,800 you where the golf ball's going and what the shot 541 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,719 shape is going to be at the golf ball. And 542 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,159 from there, I can tell you what your efficiency is 543 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,639 based on your kind of goals as a player. And 544 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,800 then I can adjust the robot to different types of 545 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,679 swings and say, okay, if you change x, Y and Z, 546 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,880 you can get an extra potentially eight yards or ten 547 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:45,880 yards in distance. 548 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,559 Speaker 1: Launch monitors changed your life, your business. 549 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,199 Speaker 2: Launch monitors changed everything. 550 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,159 Speaker 1: I mean, if you can I don't understand how you 551 00:36:01,199 --> 00:36:04,639 can recreate my swing. Would you just take the numbers 552 00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:05,719 off of a launch monitor? 553 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's an app for that, right, I mean it, 554 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,039 there's a recording of it. Here's the thing you got 555 00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:15,840 to remember. When you swing a golf club, you create 556 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,199 a set of numbers. Launch monitors can capture those set 557 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,079 of numbers. And once I get those set of numbers, 558 00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:24,840 I know what your swing is. And then if you 559 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,440 give me your gamer, I know what your club is. 560 00:36:27,679 --> 00:36:29,920 So now I put the club in the robot and 561 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,400 I reproduce your swing. Now what I'm doing is taking 562 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,280 an average. Right, nobody swings, No one's a robot that 563 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,920 they swing exactly the same. But let's say you swing 564 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,440 five swings and I go, Fred, what's your typical swing? 565 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,280 And you say number three. Number three is kind of 566 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,159 my sixty seventy percent swing. So I go, okay, I 567 00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:50,679 put swing number three. I take the data from that, 568 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,639 and let's say you're plus two, attack, angle your square 569 00:36:55,199 --> 00:36:57,320 and you hit the ball low on the face. Here's 570 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:02,760 a classic example. So, gentlemen of our age and above, 571 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,679 what did we learn when we put the peg in 572 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,239 the ground. We learned it with percimon right, So most 573 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,920 golfers put the peg in the ground over the age 574 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,400 of forty five point fifty to about half an inch. 575 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,280 The benefit of the modern driver is in the top 576 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,760 third of the club phase that has the highest launch 577 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,480 and lowest spin. If you tee it too low, you 578 00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:28,039 can lose between fifteen and twenty yards in distance just 579 00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:32,840 based on impact position. And you can try it. Anybody 580 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,199 listening to this can try it. Look where you normally 581 00:37:36,199 --> 00:37:38,679 tee it and raise it a half inch and hit 582 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,679 a ball, hit him on the range, and you will 583 00:37:40,679 --> 00:37:44,039 see more of a parabolic flight. What we're looking for 584 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,840 is the beginning of the arc looks like the end 585 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,159 of the arc, so it's not the ball goes out 586 00:37:51,199 --> 00:37:53,599 and then flares at its peak and you don't want 587 00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:56,719 the ball dropping. You want it so it's more parabolic 588 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,880 and equal. And the way to get that a lot 589 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,599 of times is simply raising the ball on the club 590 00:38:02,639 --> 00:38:06,159 phase and hitting the upper third that increases launch and 591 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:11,880 decreases spin. And these are all things that I know. 592 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,800 The only reason I know is because I have an 593 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,000 amazing piece of test equipment that can replicate any type 594 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,119 of golf swing, and I have an amazing launch monitor 595 00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:27,400 capture system from Foresight that I can reproduce based on 596 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:32,039 those numbers. And as I said, Bryson's a client of mine, 597 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,079 Bryson uses a Foresight GC quad. He hits these balls, 598 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,639 he comes to me, gives me his numbers. I put 599 00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:42,000 them in the robot with his club, and then we 600 00:38:42,119 --> 00:38:44,559 put different heads on to see which head has the 601 00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:47,679 best performance characteristics. So if it works for the number, 602 00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:51,800 you know, the most kind of technical mind in the business, 603 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,880 it can work for anybody. But what I'm excited about. 604 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,519 I love equipment, I love of testing, and I love performance. 605 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,559 But my passion for the last like I said five 606 00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:10,079 or ten years, is looking at biomechanics and looking at 607 00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:13,920 a swing flaw and a swing correction, and as I said, 608 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:19,920 showing you kind of where you're at currently and where 609 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,960 you could possibly be. Now here's where it gets interesting. 610 00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:24,840 Let's say you have one hundred and twenty five miles 611 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,320 an hour clubhead speed, but you're wild, you know. Then 612 00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:34,199 plus four attack angle with an eight degree lofty driver 613 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,320 that launches it at eleven and spins it at eighteen hundred. 614 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,480 While you will hit the ball a mile is not 615 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,320 necessarily your best option, so we're not in a pure 616 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,000 distance option. Then we start looking at okay, let's back 617 00:39:50,119 --> 00:39:53,599 that attack angle back to maybe neutral or negative one, 618 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,559 and let's start playing the power fade because you have 619 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,679 enough power. Your main concern now is hitting fairways. And 620 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,840 by hitting fairways, we want to be slightly outside in 621 00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:07,840 and slightly open on the face. So when that ball 622 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,800 goes out low and rises and falls to the right, 623 00:40:11,559 --> 00:40:16,480 we're probably losing versus the optimal maybe twenty twenty five yards, 624 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,239 but you're going to hit a lot more fairways. You're 625 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,519 already swinging one hundred and twenty five miles an hour, 626 00:40:21,639 --> 00:40:24,159 so you're probably out there at about three ten, three 627 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,079 twenty anyways, and it's better to be three twenty in 628 00:40:28,119 --> 00:40:32,280 the fairway than three forty five, you know, in the 629 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,199 next in the woods. So those are kind of how 630 00:40:36,639 --> 00:40:40,079 I look at the game. It's just really interesting. I 631 00:40:40,119 --> 00:40:43,440 look at the game through data, but I also understand, 632 00:40:43,559 --> 00:40:47,480 especially from a teaching standpoint, the game is taught verbally, 633 00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:51,960 and the game is taught with concepts and ideas, And 634 00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:55,800 what my goal is is to take those concepts and 635 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,880 ideas and put numbers behind them so that when you 636 00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:03,519 have a launch monitor you can look and say, oh, okay, 637 00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:07,639 that time I was five degrees outside and that was 638 00:41:07,679 --> 00:41:09,480 too much. I want to be one degree. And then 639 00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:12,480 you train yourself with muscle memory by looking at the 640 00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:16,039 launch monitor understanding that these are the delivery conditions that 641 00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:19,440 you need, and then once you can replicate that, now 642 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,000 you can build that swing and hopefully kind of maximize 643 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,679 your performance. Wow. 644 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: So I'm curious to know your dad of Blessed Memory 645 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,719 and Tony Manzoni of Blessed Memory, who were obsessed with 646 00:41:35,079 --> 00:41:41,159 clubs and putters. It clearly came you clearly picked up 647 00:41:41,159 --> 00:41:43,199 on it and have run with it. 648 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:44,280 Speaker 2: Did you? 649 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: Were you always a techie kind of kid growing up? 650 00:41:47,639 --> 00:41:50,400 And were you fascinated with golf where you were like, 651 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,639 I cannot do this for my life too, and you 652 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,199 end up doing it? Where were you? 653 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,800 Speaker 2: Sometimes life is a sick joke. Uh? 654 00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: So it was the punchline. 655 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 2: I grew up. I grew up in the seventies as 656 00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:08,840 on the wrong side of the country club, you know, 657 00:42:09,079 --> 00:42:11,920 in the cart barn and picking up balls on the 658 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:17,599 driving range, and I hated golf, just hated it. And 659 00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:22,119 the reason I hated it was in the seventies, unless 660 00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:24,800 you were really good golfer, the only people who played 661 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,599 golf were asthmatics or kids with heart conditions. 662 00:42:27,679 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: Like it was like because you know, I was playing basketball, football, basketball. 663 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,760 Speaker 2: Football, baseball exactly. You know, or you were a country 664 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,920 club kid, and I wasn't a country club kid. I 665 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,880 was a son of golf pro and so I was 666 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,159 on the working side of the business. And it just 667 00:42:43,039 --> 00:42:45,559 it didn't appeal to me in the physicality that I 668 00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:48,599 had towards sports at the time. So and it was also, 669 00:42:49,119 --> 00:42:51,639 to be perfectly frank, it was work. Every time I'd 670 00:42:51,679 --> 00:42:54,559 go to the course, it was I didn't like I 671 00:42:54,559 --> 00:42:56,920 would hit all kid. Yeah, I would hit balls with 672 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,519 my dad, but I didn't enjoy it because everything issociated 673 00:43:00,519 --> 00:43:04,440 with was with work. So I go off to school. 674 00:43:04,559 --> 00:43:07,199 I go off to UCLA. I want to be a diplomat. 675 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,519 That's my goal. So I study international relations and I 676 00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:14,199 graduate from UCLA and I'm going to take a year 677 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,719 off to study for the grad school exams. And my dad, 678 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,039 at the time, I think was he left Callaway. He 679 00:43:20,119 --> 00:43:23,159 was with Founders. I come down to San Diego and 680 00:43:23,199 --> 00:43:26,400 he said, Hey, I've got this idea for this testing company. 681 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,599 And there's this robot, not even a robot, this machine 682 00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:32,559 that we can buy for one hundred dollars. And he goes, 683 00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:34,239 I think I can spruce it up for a couple 684 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,239 grand What do you think you want to give it 685 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,400 a shot? And I go, I'm thinking, sure, I'll do 686 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,360 that for six months, you know, until until I go. 687 00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:45,000 And so we get this machine. He loans me a 688 00:43:45,039 --> 00:43:48,119 couple thousand dollars. My first two clients, no joke, were 689 00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:52,599 Callaway and Cobra because my dad had connection. And I 690 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:59,159 start and I quickly realize, I don't know anything about golf. 691 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,639 I thought I did, I didn't. I know nothing about 692 00:44:02,639 --> 00:44:06,440 golf testing and I know zero about running a small business. 693 00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:09,719 I mean, I am dumb as a box of rocks. 694 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,599 But what I learned was if you throw enough hours 695 00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:17,159 at something, I worked seven days a week for the 696 00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:20,960 first three or four years. I mean, it just non stop, 697 00:44:21,039 --> 00:44:25,440 and I was like a sponge. Fortunately a lot of 698 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,880 other people in the industry didn't know a lot of 699 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,320 things either. It was a cottage industry, and it was 700 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,920 like people would go they'd design a golf club, and 701 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,000 they'd go to the rains the best players and they'd 702 00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:38,760 hit it and go, yeah, that looks good. And then 703 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,760 they'd go to a foundry and they'd make it. I mean, 704 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,320 there wasn't a lot of scientific process and so because 705 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,039 I lucked out at the right time. The Cold War 706 00:44:48,199 --> 00:44:53,159 was ending and there was this infusion of composites, titanium, 707 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,119 All of these materials needed to be tested. My machine 708 00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,920 worked worked for the first couple of years, and they 709 00:45:00,519 --> 00:45:04,400 I started developing a machine. I didn't accept my role 710 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,599 in the industry until I was about thirty five or so, 711 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,440 and then all of a sudden one day I went, 712 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,480 wait a minute, why are you bitching about being in 713 00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:14,719 the golf You work in the golf industry. And I 714 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:20,039 suddenly realized that everyone, you know, all of my buddies, 715 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,719 they work all week just so they could go play golf. 716 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,679 And I realized I kind of had to give myself 717 00:45:27,679 --> 00:45:30,639 a proverbial slap in the face and go, you should 718 00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:36,599 really be thankful. And since then the game has just 719 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,880 provided we with some amazing experiences. So we developed a 720 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,239 mobile robot. It got the hole in one at the 721 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:49,039 Phoenix Waste Management Open. We've competed against Steph Curry on 722 00:45:49,079 --> 00:45:53,400 Holy Moley, and competed against Sarey Pak and Korea. We've 723 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,920 done We've competed against Rory McElroy in this Rory versus 724 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,440 the Robot. I've been able to work with tour players 725 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,239 and top teachers in the business and currently with Golf Digest, 726 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:11,000 and I've had corridors of power within this industry open 727 00:46:11,079 --> 00:46:16,320 to me, and I am very, very thankful and do 728 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,559 not take any of it for granted. But what's fascinating 729 00:46:20,599 --> 00:46:26,960 when you reached out to me is I am fascinated 730 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:32,519 by origin stories and I'm a big history guy and decisions. 731 00:46:32,639 --> 00:46:36,519 And Tony played a major part in the reason that 732 00:46:36,599 --> 00:46:41,039 I'm here. Without his friendship to my dad and without 733 00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:44,840 him encouraging my dad to move down to Palm Springs, like, 734 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,559 none of this would have ever happened. And it's just 735 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:53,920 it's and you know, I would run into Tony in 736 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,199 the two thousands, you know, maybe like once every few years, 737 00:46:57,199 --> 00:46:59,400 because Palm Springs was a small place, and I'd be 738 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,360 at a bar in my you know, thirties or forties 739 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,519 and run into him and we'd have a drink together 740 00:47:04,639 --> 00:47:08,119 and catch up. And I mean, I always love Tony 741 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,320 and he's just yeah, he's He's part of my origin 742 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,280 story and part of, you know, the reason that I'm 743 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:23,800 here doing what I do. So he and why no, George. 744 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,760 Speaker 1: And I have to think at some point in your 745 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:31,920 journey before you were thirty five, that your dad was going, yeah, yeah, 746 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,280 I kind of knew this was coming. 747 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was. He was always really proud of me. 748 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:38,840 I just I'm. 749 00:47:38,559 --> 00:47:39,119 Speaker 1: Proud of you. 750 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,480 Speaker 2: I had I had I like I said, I just 751 00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:48,440 had visions of doing something else. But I am very, 752 00:47:48,639 --> 00:47:52,719 very thankful for the way that I'm thankful for the 753 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,480 way that it turned out because I made peace with 754 00:47:55,519 --> 00:47:59,119 the fact that I'm not solving the world problems or 755 00:47:59,519 --> 00:48:03,079 curing answer, but I'm able to help test a piece 756 00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:05,719 of golf equipment that makes someone's life a little bit 757 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:09,599 more enjoyable or now looking at like, you know, we're 758 00:48:09,639 --> 00:48:11,159 going to be doing a lot of stuff with golf 759 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:16,199 digests on the swing flaw and correction and hopefully, you know, 760 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:23,039 allowing teachers to provide a little bit more data driven 761 00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:30,679 analysis to their teaching, and in doing so, the teachers essential. 762 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,400 The teacher is always essential, and the reason for that 763 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,719 is the number one job of a golf instructor, in 764 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:42,920 my opinion, is being an effective communicator. It's understanding the 765 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,639 problem that's before you, whether that be an athlete, whether 766 00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,480 that be someone who's got a back problem, and then 767 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:54,320 understanding their goals and then effectively communicating a strategy that 768 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,320 allows them to play more enjoyable golf. What I can 769 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,679 do is regard regardless if it's an athlete or an 770 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,840 eighty year old, you know, man with arthritis. I can 771 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,400 look at their potential from what they're doing and show 772 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,639 where they can possibly go within the limits of their 773 00:49:13,679 --> 00:49:18,719 biomechanics to play more enjoyable golf and more consistent golf. 774 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:24,559 And what Tony talked about with the body system one 775 00:49:24,639 --> 00:49:28,599 hundred percent. I tell people that all the time, and 776 00:49:28,639 --> 00:49:32,639 I say, it's real simple. I say, stand on a 777 00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:37,159 t box, you know, in driving range, keep your arms rigid, 778 00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:40,719 pull them back, and hit a shot and you'll hit 779 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,840 it about twenty yards. Then bend your elbow and let 780 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,480 it release and you'll hit it about forty fifty yards. 781 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,280 Then turn your back and you'll hit it about you know, 782 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,960 one hundred yards, and then turn your hips in combination 783 00:49:54,119 --> 00:49:57,119 with your back, and suddenly you'll hit it two hundred yards. 784 00:49:57,159 --> 00:50:00,159 And it's your big muscles that are driving your small muscle. 785 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:06,800 But most people, it's kind of like a fighter. If 786 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:11,079 you see a fighter when they're in the position they 787 00:50:11,159 --> 00:50:15,679 maximize their velocity of the punch right at the impact position. 788 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,400 If you see someone in a bar fight, they throw 789 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,480 their shoulder as hard as they can and waste all 790 00:50:21,519 --> 00:50:24,440 of this momentum and don't utilize their hips and their 791 00:50:24,519 --> 00:50:27,639 legs to maximize the power. It's the same thing in 792 00:50:27,679 --> 00:50:30,159 a golf swing, but a lot of people do not 793 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,159 teach the body, and by not teaching the body, instinctively, 794 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,280 your arms are attached to the club, so you think 795 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,760 you have to murder it like with an axe. And 796 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,599 what you're doing is you are minimizing what we call 797 00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:47,719 centrifugal force, and that is you're not holding the angle 798 00:50:48,159 --> 00:50:51,760 from your wrist to your arm that can be maximized 799 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:56,000 due to gravity as it accelerates. And here's the wild part. 800 00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,960 We can prove that on the robot, so we can 801 00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:03,639 the robot can change acceleration forces, so we can duplicate 802 00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:08,559 your acceleration, so I can take x amount of power, 803 00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,280 so we have power and ambridge, so I can take 804 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,559 twenty amps of power, which is eighty miles an hour, 805 00:51:14,119 --> 00:51:16,280 and I can apply the power right at the beginning 806 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,760 of the swing and cast the club, and the club 807 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,119 will come through at like seventy six miles an hour, 808 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,800 and then I can hold that power, ramp up that 809 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,920 power so that I reach a maximum when that arm 810 00:51:29,039 --> 00:51:32,679 is almost directly in line with the golf ball and 811 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,079 the wrist is still holding the ninety degree, and then 812 00:51:36,159 --> 00:51:38,639 slow the arm down and allow the risk to accelerate, 813 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,480 and I can get up to about eighty three eighty 814 00:51:40,519 --> 00:51:45,039 four miles an hour with the exact same power output. 815 00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:48,800 So we're applying the power on the robot, but we're 816 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,559 wasting the power by casting it early and not maximizing 817 00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:57,320 ancient trifical force versus holding. What is that in golf parlance, 818 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,119 that's cast versus lag. But we can wantify that and 819 00:52:01,199 --> 00:52:04,119 show five to six mile an hour at a slower speed. 820 00:52:04,159 --> 00:52:08,199 There's even higher results at higher speeds. But this is 821 00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,599 the stuff that, as I've aged, I kind of geek 822 00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:15,800 out about, is the how the biomechanics apply. And like 823 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,679 I said, what's really cool about technology and golf right now, 824 00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,679 all the data is in numbers, and it's it's it's 825 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,599 just a matter of translating those numbers, and as you 826 00:52:26,679 --> 00:52:30,760 translate those numbers, you really can evolve and become a 827 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:31,880 more effective player. 828 00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,239 Speaker 1: Well, I am so happy for you that you found 829 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:42,400 peace in knowing that you have helped millions of people 830 00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:46,639 and have come up with information and have the heritage, 831 00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:52,719 have the genes. If I will to contribute in a 832 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,320 way that most people can only dream of. This has 833 00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,639 been an amazing conversation. I truly appreciate at your time. 834 00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:02,800 I really hope we get to do this again because 835 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,039 I want to go talk more about equipment, although it's 836 00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:07,880 always going to come back to Tony at some point. 837 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,679 Speaker 2: Happy to talk about Tony, Happy to talk about equipment, 838 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,239 And if any of your listeners get a chance that 839 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,920 we have a video series on golf Digest where we 840 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,920 are comparing these last three models, and I'll be honest 841 00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,440 with you, we kind of lay it all on the line. 842 00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:29,960 Sometimes we recommend upgrading, sometimes we don't. And it's if 843 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,719 you're in the market and looking to purchase equipment, I 844 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:37,679 recommend checking it out. We try to do a fair job. 845 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,880 We understand how expensive equipment is and we try to 846 00:53:41,039 --> 00:53:43,559 give you as much information as possible so that you 847 00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:45,239 can make an educated choice. 848 00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:48,280 Speaker 1: And we do that golf digest dot com. 849 00:53:48,119 --> 00:53:52,199 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, golf dies common. I've got a podcast, golf Iq. 850 00:53:53,599 --> 00:53:56,519 If you're an equipment junkie, and I think some of 851 00:53:56,559 --> 00:54:01,840 your listeners are because that's how you fine. When I 852 00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:06,400 was telling my origin story, my partner took the week 853 00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:10,079 off and unwisely let me go sideways on the on 854 00:54:10,159 --> 00:54:12,960 the pod. But yeah, if you're if you're interested in equipment, 855 00:54:13,559 --> 00:54:16,360 that's kind of our wheelhouse and that's what we focus on. 856 00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:21,000 And you know, we're we're we understand how expensive golf 857 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,119 equipment is and we just want to try to educate 858 00:54:23,159 --> 00:54:26,960 golfers as much as possible so that they make the 859 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,440 most informed decisions, you know, before they go out and purchase. 860 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:32,239 Speaker 1: Jane, it's been awesome. 861 00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,920 Speaker 2: Thank you, Bud, thank you, thank you for having me on. 862 00:54:35,039 --> 00:54:38,280 I really enjoyed it. And like I said, I love 863 00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,400 origin stories. I'm a big history guy, so it's it's 864 00:54:42,519 --> 00:54:47,559 really nice to honor Tony and my father and too, 865 00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:51,800 I'm a big believer people continue to live on if 866 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,159 you tell their stories and remember their names. So I 867 00:54:55,199 --> 00:54:58,519 appreciate you carrying the torch for Tony, and it's been 868 00:54:58,519 --> 00:54:59,079 a lot of fun.