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Terms 25 00:00:57.960 --> 00:00:59.960 and conditions apply see website for d. 26 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.760 You are now listening to True Murder, the most Shocking 27 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:14.879 Killers in True crime History and the authors that have 28 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:22.239 written about him Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 29 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:25.959 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 30 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:30.239 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 31 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:43.040 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening. 32 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:47.519 Melinda Kola is very familiar with his Secret Santa and 33 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:50.319 the many links to tie him to John Beney Ramsey. 34 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:54.159 Each link is carefully explained within this book to lead 35 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:57.400 from one connection to the next between John Beney and 36 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:00.640 the Secret Santa. Follow the pieces of the puzzle to 37 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:03.560 find out who this Secret Santa is and how this 38 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:07.640 chameleon was able to evade the authorities. Included within is 39 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:10.560 a pair of government generated documents for the same man 40 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:14.639 under different aliases assume names. This alone should raise a 41 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:18.280 red flag for authorities. The same individual also use a 42 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:21.280 term of endearment common to the Ramsey family for John 43 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.319 Benney in front of his peers and classmates at a 44 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:27.280 karate school when asked if he was related to that 45 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:31.159 girl found in a basement, he responded with, I don't know, 46 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:34.560 no Johnny B. No one knew this term of endearment 47 00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:36.599 until it was used in the book The Death of 48 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:40.520 Innocence by John Ramsey. Planned murder indicates that the killer 49 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:44.439 knew the victim's schedule. Overkill is usually a message intended 50 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:47.719 for someone else other than the victim. Who was the 51 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:49.960 overkill message intended. 52 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:50.360 For and why. 53 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:54.479 DNA feenotyping can be used to help generate an image 54 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:56.879 of the killer's face, which may match up with some 55 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.719 of the images found within this book, raising some serial questions. 56 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:03.400 The true name of the Secret Santa is listed on 57 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:06.439 Detective Lou Smith's suspect list. There is a list of 58 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:08.520 people to contact at the end of the book should 59 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:12.520 you see this Secret Santa reporters whereabouts to the proper authorities. 60 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:14.919 Corruption and lack of cooperation on the part of the 61 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.639 authorities have held back much of this information for far 62 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:20.599 too long. That is why she has compiled the list 63 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:22.439 of links to send out to the public so that 64 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:26.879 they may decide for themselves if the information found within 65 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:31.919 warrant's interest and possibly and arrest, Perhaps together, we can 66 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:34.800 finally bring an end to this case and justice for 67 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:37.639 John Benay Ramsey. The book that we're featuring this evening 68 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.039 is Secret Santa, My Murderer, The True John Benay completed 69 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:46.080 puzzle with my special guest activists and author Melinda Coola. 70 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:48.680 Welcome to the program, and thank you for this interview. 71 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:49.759 Melinda Coola. 72 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:54.000 Thank you, Mistress Fansky, for giving an ear and an 73 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:57.360 audience to John Benay as well as other homicide victims. 74 00:03:57.599 --> 00:03:59.840 It's our job to tell the truth. I can tell 75 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:02.800 you this since the nine to eleven Terrible Tragedies. There's 76 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:05.599 posters everywhere see it, say it. If you see something 77 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.439 that's wrong, you suspect something, you're supposed to report it. 78 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:12.360 If not, then you become culpable in the outcome of tragedies. 79 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:15.800 I'm trying not to become culpable in the outcome of 80 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:17.319 the tragedy of this child. 81 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.600 Let's go to nineteen ninety six. Take us back for 82 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:26.879 people to understand what John Benay had told four persons. 83 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.560 Tell us what John Benay had said regarding Secret Santa. 84 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.560 Tell us about these conversations before we talk about who 85 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:37.040 you found out to be the Secret Santa. 86 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:40.480 Children are never heard. Everyone wants them to go away. 87 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:43.199 But John Beney quote a friend of hers, and that 88 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:48.439 information was just made available very recently. This friend announced 89 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:51.680 that John Benay, when they were young, told her she 90 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:55.920 was very excited Santa is coming again after Christmas. But 91 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.319 the child said, well, santso was here. You know, Santa's 92 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:02.879 coming again after Christmas with a present, but it's a secret. 93 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:08.000 It's a secret visit. This child just now recently, within 94 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:11.319 the last couple of weeks, came forward with that information 95 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.920 because now she's twenty six years older and she realized 96 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:19.199 the importance of what John Beney told her dear friend 97 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:21.040 when they were both six years old. 98 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.639 You cite three other people that were also told about 99 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:29.240 this secret Santa. What kinds of things specifically did John 100 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:31.439 Benet say, And to who the. 101 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:35.879 Santa at fleet White's party? That Santa was accustomed to 102 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:38.959 being there for the fleet White family, so everyone was 103 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:42.680 familiar with that Santa. That was the second Santa for 104 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:47.120 John Beney, John Benet's family's Santa. Mc reynold's was Stanta 105 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:50.600 number one. So as this party is winding down at 106 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:55.360 fleet White's house and Priscilla's John Benney is thinking Santa, 107 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:59.279 and Santa is hoping she enjoyed all her presence. John 108 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:03.959 Beney told that Santa Danta number two, she's expecting another 109 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:07.759 Santa after Christmas. But it was a secret Santa, and 110 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:11.160 he's going to bring her yet another present, Stanta number two. 111 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:14.399 I'm not sure if he became a little annoyed that 112 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:17.240 she might be greedy or didn't understand she was speaking 113 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:21.160 of her truth. Santa's coming again after Christmas, because that 114 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:24.199 Danta told her he has already been here at your 115 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:26.600 home and here I am. So he wondered why she 116 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.600 was expecting another Santa. In the evening when everyone was leaving. 117 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:34.920 I believe that John Deney told Priscilla White, Danta is 118 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:39.439 coming again after Christmas when Papa John Ramsey tucked his 119 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.720 child in bed. Somewhere along the line over these past 120 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.839 twenty six years, someone pointed out that she also told 121 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:49.639 her father while he's tucking her in and she wakes 122 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:52.720 up just a moment or two, and she's excited because 123 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:54.720 even though she's sleepy and it's been a long day, 124 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:58.759 Danta is coming again after Christmas. The child, who's now 125 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:02.759 twenty six years old, that is recent. That is a 126 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:06.800 young lady who knows what she heard from this precious 127 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:09.480 six year old friend of hers. The other Santa. I 128 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:12.240 don't know that he's still alive from the Fleet White party. 129 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:15.800 And for Priscilla, she may remember that, but certainly I 130 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:18.920 would think a father would remember the words that his 131 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:21.959 daughter has to say about a secret Santa after Christmas? 132 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:25.000 You right about the groundskeeper and what John Benay had 133 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:27.759 said to the groundskeeper regarding Secret Sannah. 134 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:31.800 Yes, her conversation with the groundskeeper stemmed from her coming 135 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:34.000 to him and she was crying, and this I had 136 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:36.839 read somewhere. She approached him, she was crying. He wants 137 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:39.199 to know why she was crying. After all, it's Christmas, 138 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:41.639 you've opened your presence, you've visited with Santsa, you have 139 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:44.199 a brand new bike. Why would you be crying on Christmas? 140 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.600 Probably he's thinking, as a young man himself, did someone 141 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:49.120 hurt her? Did she fall? What's wrong? And she said 142 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:52.160 to him, I wish my father was around more often. 143 00:07:52.439 --> 00:07:54.879 So at that moment I'm feeling is that if she's 144 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:57.000 not seeing her father as the bad guy, I wish 145 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:00.639 my father was around more often. And why does love 146 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:04.399 hurt Why does love hurt? That was the second comment. 147 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:07.360 Why would a six year old even make such a statement. 148 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:11.399 Is it because the secret Santa who visited every Christmas 149 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:14.920 Eve hurt her while he's in costume? Is that a 150 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:16.199 possibility to answers. 151 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:20.879 Yes, let's get back to what the neighborhood later after this, 152 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:23.879 And again we're not going to go into what happened 153 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:28.240 on that morning, the police arrival and the mishandling of 154 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:31.040 this case, the gross mishandling of this case right from 155 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:34.320 the very beginning of the investigation. But let's talk about 156 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:37.200 what police do find in terms of a neighbor that 157 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:40.679 comes forth and has something to say that they witnessed 158 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:45.000 in terms of a scream and also an eyewitness report 159 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:47.039 that they gave to police. Tell us what they said 160 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:49.720 to police in terms of this description and what they 161 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:50.559 hurt and when. 162 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:55.000 That is such an important point because the neighbor across 163 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:59.159 the street heard after midnight or at midnight a scream 164 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:01.879 of a child, most heart wrenching screams she had ever 165 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:04.799 heard in her entire life. This scream came definitely, in 166 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:07.519 her opinion, from across the street from the Ramsay's home. 167 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:11.240 That tells us that at midnight, John Beane still alive 168 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:15.279 because she's the one that screamed. Now later that same 169 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:18.440 witness who's hearing the scream and is wondering what's going 170 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:23.039 on across the street that same witness saw at five pm. Okay, 171 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:25.879 now we're into the next day, the day after Christmas, 172 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:29.080 where John and Patsy are leaving their home at five 173 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:32.279 to go to the Fleet White party, but the neighbors 174 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:35.279 saying goodbye. She has their dog. She sees a man 175 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.759 coming from the left walking straight to John's house. There 176 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:41.960 is a good chance that the person walking straight to 177 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:44.200 John's house and cutting as you're looking at the front 178 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:46.919 of the house over to the left corner, watched John 179 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:49.679 and Patsy pull away. Because of the timing, So this 180 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:53.159 curious woman saw the image of the man, knows that 181 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:56.799 he was maybe five six, maybe one hundred and thirty pounds. 182 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.480 What jacket he was wearing that he with intention walk 183 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:02.759 toward the house and off to the left corner. That 184 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:05.320 would be by the way, the same corner where if 185 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:08.200 you lift up the grate and slide into the room, 186 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.399 it would be that corner. Later, when the police were 187 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:13.960 there to find out about the kidnapping, which, as you know, 188 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:18.120 turned into a murder. He is there at running away 189 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:21.320 from the house. That same man is running away from 190 00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:24.120 the house from the back and then back to the 191 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:27.320 direction he came from. And this woman is watching him 192 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:30.399 run away from the house while the authorities are in 193 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.840 the house, probably looking for him. Now they realize this 194 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:36.200 is not a kidnapping, this is a murder. So she 195 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:39.519 had turned around and stopped one of the local officers 196 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:41.840 in front of her home, like in between the two streets, 197 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:44.720 and she said, there is a man running away from 198 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:46.840 the house. This is what he looks like. But he 199 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:49.320 is the same man that at five o'clock in the 200 00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:53.679 evening approached the house and that front left corner. So 201 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:56.320 it's the same man at five who is running away. Now, 202 00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:58.440 maybe someone could go catch up with him and find 203 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:00.519 out who he is and why is he and why 204 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:02.320 is he running away from the house When the house 205 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.639 is loaded with police officers, She said, no one paid 206 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:08.480 attention to her, No one pursued that individual. 207 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:13.600 Incredible. Let's talk about the most important thing that you 208 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:17.720 bring to this story, obviously, is your interaction with this 209 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:22.720 person you believe is the primary suspect. Bill Ramsey. First off, 210 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:26.320 tell us who Bill Ramsey is, just officially, and then 211 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:29.799 let's take our audience back to the karate school. And 212 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:32.960 in July nineteen ninety six, you're write that your husband 213 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.440 is involved in this karate school as an adult student 214 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:39.039 and your son is involved as a child student at 215 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:43.159 this AKC karate school. Tell us what this karate school is, 216 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.080 who the instructor is, tell us a little bit about 217 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:49.000 your son being there. Tell us give us a background 218 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:51.639 about this karate school and why you're all there, and 219 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:53.720 then what happens one day? Who do you meet. 220 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:56.600 There's two karate schools and we should always call them 221 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:00.600 Karate school number one, the original school that Bill Ramsey 222 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:04.240 and his two friends participated in Mannahawk and New Jersey. 223 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:07.279 That's karate school number one. Let's call it the negative school. 224 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.320 Karate school number two, the one my husband and son attended. 225 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:13.279 Franklin was five and a half years old. He's in 226 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:16.200 the child's class. Tom's in the adult class with other 227 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:19.679 adult males and females. That's karate school number two. Parkinson 228 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:23.639 Bay Karate School. The owner is Brian Parkinson. That was 229 00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:27.279 in Weartown, New Jersey, which is now the Waretown Post Office. 230 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:31.200 This is where I met a man and his name 231 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.159 was Bill Ramsey. Bill Ramsey and his two friends came 232 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.720 together at the Parkinson Bay Karate School. Bill Ramsey's presence 233 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.320 was very strongly felt because of his attention to the 234 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:46.919 children and then his aggressive nature with the adult males, 235 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:52.799 especially after he returned from John Bonnat's murder situation. Bill 236 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:56.399 Ramsey is five feet six, he's one hundred and thirty pounds. 237 00:12:56.399 --> 00:13:01.039 Silken wet to describe him as very easy of Charles Manson. 238 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.080 This man standing right next to Charles Manson, and you 239 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:06.480 probably wouldn't be able to tell them apart in height 240 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:10.240 and build and weight, in the way they look in appearance. 241 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:13.519 No disrespect to either one of them, but you're looking 242 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:17.440 at someone very very similar to Charles Manson. Bill Ramsey 243 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:19.559 is sitting on the bleachers. High on the bleachers, there's 244 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:22.120 one bleacher. It kind of helps the karate instructor to 245 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:26.080 keep the adults away from the children. During the children's class. 246 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:29.480 Bill was angry, and this is where he really got 247 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.600 my attention. Bill was very very angry because on the 248 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:35.399 wall where Bill always sat high on the bleacher to 249 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:39.279 his right was a wooden karate training sword. It was 250 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:42.440 a very ornate piece of carving. It can be used 251 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:45.120 as a sword, it can inflict danger, but it was 252 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:48.279 intended as a unique gift, one of a kind for 253 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:51.399 the owner of the school, given to mister Parkinson. Since 254 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:56.039 the Parkinson by an appreciating customer client, it always hung 255 00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:59.279 on that wall. Bill Ramsey is all about wood and 256 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:02.320 that's something we all remember. My son because he did 257 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:05.279 very well in obtaining his white belt. Now remember he's 258 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:07.480 a very active little boy five and a half years old, 259 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.639 asked the karate instructor, since he won his white belt, 260 00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:13.440 would he please run up the bleacher, grabbed the sword. 261 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:15.879 He'll be very very careful, but he just wanted to 262 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.879 see it and handle it. Mister Parkinson gave him permission. 263 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.159 Franklin ran off the bleachers behind Bill Ramsey, grabbed the 264 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:25.519 sword off the wall, jumped down from the bleachers. It 265 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:28.120 was only about five six steps. As he's playing something 266 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.559 that would be like Zoral Power Rangers. He's just swinging 267 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.759 the sword around, pretending to be able to train himself 268 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.960 how to use it better. Not anyone in sight of him. 269 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:40.759 No one was in danger. The karate instructor was keeping 270 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:42.639 an eye on that. All of a sudden, Bill Ramsey 271 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:46.399 jumps off the bleacher, went after Franklin, ripped the sword 272 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:51.120 from Franklin's hands and thrusted it toward Franklin's abdomen. Franklin, 273 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:55.840 because he had just finished workout, Franklin intuitively jumped back 274 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:59.039 away from the point of the sword. It's a wooden sword, 275 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:02.440 and that I raced from the front of the school 276 00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:05.720 to Franklin, pushed them behind, grabbed the sword off. Bill 277 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:08.480 Ramsey returned it to where it's supposed to be on 278 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:11.200 the wall. Told the instructor, get this man away from 279 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.519 the children. He's a danger to the children. None of 280 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.440 the children are his. Why is he here? And if 281 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:17.639 he's here, the next time, all parents will pull their 282 00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:20.639 children because I will pull mine. And the problem was resolved. 283 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:22.639 We thought, that's Bill Ramsey. 284 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:27.080 Tell us a little bit more about this unique hand carved, 285 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.279 hand painted miniature karate sword. 286 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:32.559 This sword, I had it in my own hands. It's 287 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:36.720 only about twenty to twenty two inches in length. In 288 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:40.559 that area the sword had scrolled where you would put 289 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:43.679 your hand the hand grip. It had scrolled in gold, 290 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:47.519 the word Korea. Not made in Japan, made in China 291 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:50.639 made in Korea. No, no, no, only just one word 292 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:54.000 scrolled in gold paint, indicative of it being a one 293 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.879 of a kind and created for this instructor. The word 294 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.519 Korea down the shaft of it on all sides was 295 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:05.120 what one would think, is this black laquer swiggles like 296 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:08.519 little snakes. It wasn't. It was Korean lettering. The Korean 297 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:12.679 lettering meant pride, integrity, that sort of thing. It also 298 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:16.440 had splashes of other colors of paint. And it was 299 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:20.399 sealed with a glistening laquer. That's very very important. It 300 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:24.440 was sealed. This whole piece of wood artwork was sealed 301 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:28.440 with a glistening laquer. The reason why that's important is 302 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:33.399 in the autopsy report, the coroner is very specific as 303 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:39.039 to the explanation and detailing of the wooden stick, which 304 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:41.799 everyone is calling a paint brush handle. Whether it is 305 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.759 or it isn't. I only know this when he said 306 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:50.279 the word Korea scrolled in gold paint, and then there 307 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:54.639 were black swiggles of lacquer paint running up and down it, 308 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:58.759 and a splash of multiple color paints, and it was 309 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:03.080 sealed with a glade listening lacquer. He basically described the 310 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:06.799 sword I just described to you, sir, so not only that, 311 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.319 but mister Stepansky, this is a man who loves wood, 312 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:13.200 can turn wood into anything he absolutely wants to. So 313 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:17.480 was that stick that completed the garag? Was it from 314 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:20.839 the paint brush tray? A handle? A paint brush handle. 315 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:22.759 I can tell you one thing I know about paint 316 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:26.400 brush handles. They are never how much you spend on them, 317 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.400 how little you spend on them, it's irrelevant. They're never 318 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:33.599 sealed with a glistening laquer. They're never. They don't have 319 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:36.200 Korean words going up and down them. They don't have 320 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:40.359 scrolled and go only one word Korea. They have yes, 321 00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:42.880 made in Japan, made in China. Yes they have that, 322 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:47.000 but not what was described as this miniature would karate 323 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:49.839 training sort. So, sooner or later we are going to 324 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:53.359 connect what exactly was used to make the garage. 325 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:59.400 Let's talk about his behavior. You mentioned that his behavior 326 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.799 in the class was a concern to all the parents, 327 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.599 and so they went to the instructor and tried to 328 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:08.279 come up with some solution. So the adults were not 329 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:10.799 unless they were a guardian or parent of the child, 330 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:13.079 they were not allowed to be at these classes. And 331 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:16.839 the adults were only permitted to be at these classes 332 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:19.920 five minutes arrived only five minutes before their classes, So 333 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:23.400 there was a separation between the children and having someone 334 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:27.400 not connected to the children. Say, for example, observing in 335 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:32.000 this interim from July to December, your husband was in 336 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:36.519 these adult classes, and other people communicated with this person 337 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.079 that was in these classes as fellow karate de vote. 338 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:44.240 What are the things that were said just before Christmas 339 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:45.960 of nineteen ninety six. 340 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.759 Mister Sepansky, you just hit on the most important part 341 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.000 of all of this. Bill came in and is rare 342 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.279 that Bill Ramsey is in good spirits. Only one day 343 00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:59.400 that I know of, he announced to the karate instructor 344 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:04.640 that he and his two friends are seasonal workers in construction. 345 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:06.480 They didn't have the money paid the tuition for the 346 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:08.880 last couple of months. The crowding instructor said, that's okay. 347 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:11.200 When you get back to work, then you can just 348 00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:13.480 catch up. I know you're not going anywhere. He said, 349 00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:16.440 oh no, no, I expect to collect one hundred and 350 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:21.039 eighteen thousand dollars as an inheritance, and when I returned 351 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.400 from Boulder, Colorado, I will not only paid my delinquent tuition, 352 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.039 but that of my two friends Ed in Terry, and 353 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:30.839 he said, well that's okay, no pressure, But did somebody die? 354 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:33.920 You used the word inheritance. Did someone die? He said? 355 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:34.079 Oh? 356 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:36.480 No, said I visit my father every Christmas Eve for 357 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:38.839 a large sum of money. It sustains me for a year, 358 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:40.880 and then I go back to the next custasy for 359 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:45.319 that year's inheritance. Nobody died, and the crowding instructor, mister 360 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.480 Brian Parkinson, said, oh, okay, I just I was concerned 361 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:51.119 because you use that one word inheritance. He said, no, no, no. 362 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:54.599 The other thing that took place was when anyone the 363 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:57.839 men or the children would earn a belt rightfully, so 364 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:01.240 everybody else would chear them on. Another adult male right 365 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.200 another adult male said to him, you know, don't you 366 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.079 have any family to be here for you and cheer 367 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:07.799 you on and encourage you beside your two friends Ed 368 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:10.480 and Terry. Don't you have anybody? He said, no, I'm 369 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:12.400 the black sheep of a wealthy family. They live out 370 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.039 in Boulder, Colorado. I see them once a year. They 371 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:17.160 can't be bothered with me other than give me money 372 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:19.039 to stay away from them. And he was very angry, 373 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:21.359 and he said, I hate children, I hate children, I 374 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:23.839 hate my siblings, I hate women. And he just kind 375 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:27.440 of used that moment to vent his anger toward a 376 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:31.000 specific group, his siblings, because they were doted over his words, 377 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:33.240 not mine, they were doted over and all he gets 378 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:34.799 his money once a year to get out of town 379 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:37.000 and stay away for another year. Those were his words 380 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:39.880 to different people in the karate class who happened to 381 00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:43.440 be standing around in a group encouraging one another to 382 00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:46.759 succeed in getting their next belt. So enough men in 383 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:50.279 that karate class heard that, but more telling beside one 384 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:54.160 hundred and eighteen thousand dollars before he ever left Ocean County, 385 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:57.000 New Jersey, in this case where town, New Jersey before 386 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.440 he ever left, and expressing his hatred for his siblings 387 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:04.000 because they were doted over in women in general, and 388 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.480 that he traveled to Boulder to receive money once every Christmas. 389 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:10.480 Considering all of that, Considering all of that, when this 390 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:14.240 man came back from Boulder, Colorado, after the murder of 391 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.880 this child, he had not received one hundred and eighteen 392 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:20.480 thousand dollars, and he was filled with rage and anger, 393 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:23.799 and he only took it out on one person, my husband. 394 00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:27.920 Let's go back to something that happened before his planned 395 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.759 Christmas visit. I think it's very important if this was 396 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:35.480 witnessed and you write that it was. What was the footwear, 397 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:40.079 the new footwear that Bill Ramsey came to the karate 398 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:41.000 class wearing. 399 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.200 Oh my god, you're brilliant. He prior to the trip, 400 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:46.319 because he sat high in the bleachers and he always 401 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:49.480