Speaker 1: Hi, This is Jeff Cocnauga from dock in California. I
Speaker 1: play at Lahontan Golf Club. This is golf Marto number
Speaker 1: nine seventy seven.
Speaker 2: If I can let everyone get to peek behind the
Speaker 2: curtain of the golf coach here, there's a bit of
Speaker 2: a power trip that happens with coaching where someone's hitting
Speaker 2: it poorly. I change something bomb they're hitting it, well,
Speaker 2: how good am I brilliant? On the flip side, there
Speaker 2: are cases where you say something and they don't get
Speaker 2: it and it's not working. And again, not everything, but
Speaker 2: a lot of the things we see online are edited
Speaker 2: that made it look like everything works every time. Coaching
Speaker 2: is really hard and golf is really really hard, so
Speaker 2: it's not going to be there every time. But we've
Speaker 2: coaches sometimes as a sort of a washing of their
Speaker 2: hands responsibility of ah, they just didn't get it, or ah,
Speaker 2: they just got put in the time, whereas I say, well, actually,
Speaker 2: maybe you didn't get it. Maybe the advice needs to
Speaker 2: be better, how you conduct the session needs to be better.
Speaker 2: So really I'm positive when people come to me and
Speaker 2: say I just get the impression that what I'm saying
Speaker 2: isn't really the ansome because it shows there is a critical.
Speaker 1: Side unlocking the secret to finding your perfect golf coach.
Speaker 1: With Anthony McCarthy checking in from Spain, this is Golf Smarter,
Speaker 1: sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to
Speaker 1: help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ.
Speaker 1: Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast.
Speaker 2: Anthony, Hey, Fred, great to be here. Looking forward to
Speaker 2: having a really nice conversation.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. I am looking forward to that as well,
Speaker 1: because I like talking to golf coaches. I think that
Speaker 1: the primary base of this podcast is to talk to
Speaker 1: coaches who can help us all become better, smarter golfers, obviously,
Speaker 1: and any opportunity to talk to especially after the President's
Speaker 1: Cup weekend, to talk to international coaches is even better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as we're recording this the day after the President's Cup
Speaker 1: has finished, you're in Spain.
Speaker 2: I am in Spain, so I'm in the southeast of Spain.
Speaker 2: But hopefully you can tell from my accent it's not
Speaker 2: a Spanish accent, it's an English accent. So I'm originally
Speaker 2: from London, but I've been over here for twelve thirteen
Speaker 2: years and I was the director of the golf academy
Speaker 2: at La Manga Club, which has quite a good reputation
Speaker 2: in Spain. It has connections with Palmer and Player and Biasteros,
Speaker 2: so I was very happy to be there and in
Speaker 2: general it's a very good place to be.
Speaker 1: So what made the track? How did you get to
Speaker 1: Spain from England?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I did a couple education courses in England and
Speaker 2: the one in Holland. I was really to give you
Speaker 2: just a quick, a quick rundown. I was actually planning
Speaker 2: to be a sports teacher, a pee teacher at school.
Speaker 2: I very quickly realized after a placement in the school
Speaker 2: that probably that wasn't my calling. So then I did
Speaker 2: a I did a coaching course, or I did I
Speaker 2: did a Yeah, I did a separate coaching course and realized,
Speaker 2: you know, coaching and golf was always my passion. So
Speaker 2: I originally came over to play, not with any sort
Speaker 2: of high hopes of being a player, but just I thought, Hey,
Speaker 2: to be a coach, I need to be a half
Speaker 2: decent player. So I came over here, then met my
Speaker 2: what would be my wife, and then yeah, the rest
Speaker 2: is history. I'm sure it's a it's a well told
Speaker 2: tale that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, exactly, the details we don't want to share.
Speaker 1: What what What is the state of golf in Spain.
Speaker 2: Uh, it's it's pretty good. It had a had a
Speaker 2: massive dip around recession time pre and this is recession
Speaker 2: sort of around circle two thousand and eight sort of thing.
Speaker 2: A lot of a lot of courses get got built
Speaker 2: with housings on it, with housing on it. Then obviously
Speaker 2: the world went through a bit of an issue there
Speaker 2: and unfortunately a lot of places went bust. But now
Speaker 2: it's it's it's working its way up. I always think
Speaker 2: with the with Spain, it's probably more of a class divide.
Speaker 2: With golf, it's sort of more Yeah, got more for
Speaker 2: the affluent in h Yeah. In Europe obviously states is
Speaker 2: more accessible. But in general it's it's absolutely trending in
Speaker 2: the right direction.
Speaker 1: Is that separation from the classes? Is that because there's
Speaker 1: not a lot of public golf? Is it mostly private golf?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a lot of private golf. There's
Speaker 2: very very little public golf. Very I can't even think
Speaker 2: k in the whole region where I am. There's one
Speaker 2: sort of pitch and part the vast exactly exactly, The
Speaker 2: vast majority are private. So yeah, that's where there's a
Speaker 2: bit of a there's a bit of a gap there,
Speaker 2: there's a bit of a divide.
Speaker 1: Is that an issue? I mean, how is it that
Speaker 1: you're we can encourage or is there no interest in
Speaker 1: you know, I mean the kids are playing soccer, football,
Speaker 1: but how do you get children interested in golf at
Speaker 1: a young age?
Speaker 2: There's it is a tough one. There is always that misconception.
Speaker 2: I suppose that that is for like I said, for
Speaker 2: you know, the more affluent the thing where I am
Speaker 2: so I'm in the region called Mercia in the southeast
Speaker 2: of Spain, and I suppose a lot of golf in
Speaker 2: the whole of Spain just depends on tourism. So really
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of Spanish people playing golf, but
Speaker 2: there's a hell of a lot of Scandinavians, British, German,
Speaker 2: French that come in and play. And those are the
Speaker 2: ones that are really that are really playing in Spain.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's not ideal for the actual Spanish to play.
Speaker 1: Interesting and yet Spain has produced some pretty famous.
Speaker 2: Golfers unbelievable and that was I don't know if you say,
Speaker 2: I've fred over the weekend in Madrid the playoff between
Speaker 2: John Rahm and Idalgo fantastic, fantastic and obviously with a
Speaker 2: history by a stereos la foul, It's yeah, it's got
Speaker 2: a rich history.
Speaker 1: It does. But it's not generating new players, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: based on what you're saying, it doesn't sound like that
Speaker 1: it's generating interest in the masses.
Speaker 2: It's a good point for the masses, no for and
Speaker 2: normally yeah, I suppose like biostereosol Athaba, it'd be sort
Speaker 2: of exceptions. They are generating players. So if you see
Speaker 2: on the deep world to there are still a hell
Speaker 2: of a lot of Spanish. But it again my guess
Speaker 2: would be, and don't I'm not gonna hold the hout
Speaker 2: on this, they would be again coming from more from
Speaker 2: more affterent backgrounds.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, of course. And is that a concern
Speaker 1: for golfers, that that we can't open it up to
Speaker 1: more people or is just there's other other sporting interests.
Speaker 2: I think other sporting interests, I'd say with it, I
Speaker 2: don't have my finger on the pulse of it completely
Speaker 2: here the but the football soccer is the be all
Speaker 2: end is the number one. It's a religion, but basically yeah,
Speaker 2: and and everything everything else basically sports wise, maybe a
Speaker 2: bit of basketball here or there, everything else by the wayside,
Speaker 2: it's basically just soccer and that's it.
Speaker 1: So you've been coaching in Spain for over a decade.
Speaker 2: Yep, are you busy? Yes, and again it would be more,
Speaker 2: but not with but not with Spanish. So the actual
Speaker 2: the clubs are very busy, but they would be again,
Speaker 2: they would be more through through tourism. So the place
Speaker 2: I was at and I've actually I stopped coaching there
Speaker 2: in March, but I was there for ten years, La
Speaker 2: Manga Club. It had a very very steady stream of
Speaker 2: people in out. It had its own hotel. A few
Speaker 2: days in the hotel out and then people also there are, however,
Speaker 2: many houses on the resort, a lot people would just yes,
Speaker 2: stay there. And again Brits Scandinavians predominantly. So it's golf
Speaker 2: here is is still big. It's just not so big
Speaker 2: with the Spanish.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So these are private courses, but tourists can get.
Speaker 2: Access, yes, absolutely, yes, not.
Speaker 1: A reciprocal thing. You could just I'm coming in from
Speaker 1: a different country and.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's public to to to an extent.
Speaker 2: It's private to an extent, but you can still get
Speaker 2: still get groups and still get people coming from from
Speaker 2: outside in.
Speaker 1: I see. So if I if I was coming to Spain,
Speaker 1: I would just be able to call the club and
Speaker 1: say I'm coming from the States. I'd like to play like.
Speaker 2: No problem, Absolutely, that's exactly interesting.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, I would love to spend more time talking
Speaker 1: about your coaching and your approach to coaching. And let's
Speaker 1: start with, you know, finding the right the right coach.
Speaker 1: How do we find the right coach for ourselves.
Speaker 2: I like to refer to what happens between a coach
Speaker 2: and player a sort of a relationship, And like any relationship,
Speaker 2: when you're first starting out, there's a little bit of
Speaker 2: let's say, uncertainty. And there'll be some people who where
Speaker 2: I suppose it would be love at first sight, where
Speaker 2: they basically try a coach out and that's it. But
Speaker 2: for other people it might be a matter of actually
Speaker 2: just trying here and trying there, and trying there, trying there.
Speaker 2: I think the overriding factor with it is trust, and
Speaker 2: that trust comes in in a lot of forms, not
Speaker 2: necessarily always do I trust them to help them with
Speaker 2: my game? But are they trustworthy people? Do I like
Speaker 2: spending time with them? Those are the characteristics that I say,
Speaker 2: and it's sort of my Yeah, hey, I can't take
Speaker 2: ownership of it, but sort of my thing that the
Speaker 2: coaching is is a hell of a lot more than
Speaker 2: just the what we say as coaches. Speaking for me
Speaker 2: as a coach, but also the how's, the why is,
Speaker 2: the who's and so on. But in terms of actually
Speaker 2: picking a coach, I wish I could say, look for this.
Speaker 2: I don't really buy into the fact, honestly of if
Speaker 2: they've got a proven track record, because for me, then
Speaker 2: that's basically just saying, okay, no one else can enter
Speaker 2: that club. There are some really really good coaches who
Speaker 2: maybe aren't as visible online, who aren't maybe as outgoing
Speaker 2: or someone who are really top top coaches, but you
Speaker 2: just might never have heard of them. So it's really
Speaker 2: just maybe it's a bit of a cop out, but
Speaker 2: it's really just seeing and seeing and trying and experimenting
Speaker 2: and seeing if that ties in with you. There isn't
Speaker 2: really one sized fistle with that.
Speaker 1: Is. There a lot of competition, not forgetting students. But
Speaker 1: I mean, do you have a lot of other golf
Speaker 1: instructors in the area that you're competing against or is
Speaker 1: it pretty much like I'd like to take lessons in
Speaker 1: this part of the country. I'm just going to go
Speaker 1: talk to Anthony because there's not a lot of other
Speaker 1: people out.
Speaker 2: There there, Yes and no, there are. There are quite
Speaker 2: a few coaches around, but most of the players will
Speaker 2: stick to their own club or the club where they
Speaker 2: tend to tend to frequent I suppose it also depends
Speaker 2: if there's many pros at the same at the same club,
Speaker 2: but only speaking personally for it. Yeah, it's you'll find
Speaker 2: most people would just congregranate and stick to one. Can
Speaker 2: I ask you, You've talked about it a bit in
Speaker 2: previous podcasts. What's your history with with coaching? Fred and.
Speaker 1: My personal history of getting getting lessons with teachings?
Speaker 2: Yeah, slim to none.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I've had. I think I could say I've
Speaker 1: had less than five in person lessons.
Speaker 2: Firstly, I say there's nothing wrong with it, and I
Speaker 2: don't think I think coaches will often say that you
Speaker 2: have to get lessons on you don't. You don't have
Speaker 2: to get lessons but I think for a lot of
Speaker 2: people it can help. Can I ask how did that?
Speaker 2: How did them? What were the reasons behind that you.
Speaker 1: Are Episode number nine hundred and seventy seven. I've probably
Speaker 1: talked over five hundred coaches, many of them multiple times,
Speaker 1: and then and then the gamut of golf conversation, from
Speaker 1: authors to fitness and all these different things. So I've
Speaker 1: always kind of wanted to prove my point that you
Speaker 1: can learn from instructors just by listening to them, by
Speaker 1: you know, whether you're reading their books or you're just
Speaker 1: hearing a podcast. And I have gone from being probably
Speaker 1: when I first started playing, when I was in my forties.
Speaker 1: When I first started playing, I was forty two, and
Speaker 1: you know, at the beginning, you don't even keep an
Speaker 1: index or anything. But I was easily a twenty or
Speaker 1: around there somewhere, and now I'm hovering around a ten.
Speaker 1: And it's all by the conversations, all what I've learned
Speaker 1: from the instructors that I've had conversation. I mean, like
Speaker 1: I've been doing this weekly for nineteen years. It's almost
Speaker 1: like a graduate level course that I've had in golf
Speaker 1: instruction and game improvement. So it's funny because I think
Speaker 1: frequently it's like, what am I going to do when
Speaker 1: I retire. Well, I'm going to keep doing the podcast
Speaker 1: because I do this for the fun of doing it
Speaker 1: and how much I learned. But it's like, maybe I'll
Speaker 1: go start taking golf lessons and get serious about really
Speaker 1: trying to lower my index, because you know, sometimes my
Speaker 1: head is exploding with the amount of information that I get,
Speaker 1: and you know, with a conflicting instruction, I.
Speaker 2: Think with that, and it sort of links to something
Speaker 2: that I'm keen to say, Please, it wasn't in. It
Speaker 2: wasn't in, just where I said, there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2: There is nothing wrong with not taking lessons. It's you know,
Speaker 2: to a certain extent, you know, the secrets in the dirt.
Speaker 2: You know, the body doesn't really know if you're taking
Speaker 2: lessons or not. The ball doesn't know if you're taking
Speaker 2: lessons or not. It's that why I would say, and
Speaker 2: I think this might be helpful to the listeners is
Speaker 2: and again it might sound like a cop out. The
Speaker 2: more I coach, the more I realize it's just you
Speaker 2: have to sort of personalize everything and the I think
Speaker 2: some of the issue with golf and I heard Kelvin
Speaker 2: talking the other day and he was talking about like
Speaker 2: the online and so on, which I'm not really that against.
Speaker 2: It's all generalized, and that's the issue. Any tip you
Speaker 2: any tip you read, any video you watch is by
Speaker 2: definition generalized what you've done with it for it, like
Speaker 2: by not taking lessons, it's actually just personalizing that situation too. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's an extreme example because very few people are going
Speaker 2: to have, you know, nine hundred and seventy class podcast
Speaker 2: episodes and and and and have access to have access
Speaker 2: to some really good minds. I'm not including myself.
Speaker 1: In that, but you are now included.
Speaker 2: It's being but it's it's being able to personalize everything
Speaker 2: you do to you. And again it sounds like it
Speaker 2: sounds cliche and so on. There are very very few truths.
Speaker 2: There are very very few things that we really know
Speaker 2: in of and to a certain extent, like we said,
Speaker 2: for being able to pick a coach, it's about just
Speaker 2: trying things and experimenting with things and seeing what works
Speaker 2: for you, and speaking from a coach's perspective, it's the
Speaker 2: trick is really being able to personalize what's happening to
Speaker 2: the person in front rather than generalizing. Again, I know
Speaker 2: it is cliched, I know you've heard it all before.
Speaker 2: Good that the more I coach, the more I believe.
Speaker 1: That honestly incredible. Well, yes, the primary motivation of this
Speaker 1: podcast was I need to learn a lot. How do
Speaker 1: I and the and the focus is like how do
Speaker 1: I become a better golfer? Oh, I'll just talk to
Speaker 1: golf instructors and put it up on the web. But
Speaker 1: these are my conversations. I've been blessed with the fact
Speaker 1: that a lot of people relate to these conversations and
Speaker 1: listen and see themselves in my voice, and so that's
Speaker 1: been very But that's never been my focus of like
Speaker 1: how am I going to help all these people who
Speaker 1: are listening? It's how am I going to become better?
Speaker 1: And one of the things that I've really prided myself
Speaker 1: on is that I have found instructors that are not
Speaker 1: the most popular, that are not on TV, that don't
Speaker 1: have the biggest YouTube channels. Right as time has progressed
Speaker 1: and YouTube has become a main factor here, so I
Speaker 1: like to talk about focusing on and showcasing the unsung
Speaker 1: heroes of golf instruction, like yourself.
Speaker 2: Well again, maybe when teve myself. And that's the one
Speaker 2: thing I say with it is when it comes to
Speaker 2: coaching and golf improvement and so on. A couple of things.
Speaker 2: Why I really like this podcast is because it is
Speaker 2: open and you used it before. You use the term
Speaker 2: to the masses. Sometimes when we read different articles and
Speaker 2: watch different videos and someone, we have to be aware
Speaker 2: that that quote unquote content is maybe not geared towards
Speaker 2: the masses. A lot of the content now is geared
Speaker 2: towards really really top players who practice a lot, who
Speaker 2: are really impassioned to improve, and soon I think there's
Speaker 2: a massive drop in Okay, I use the word information
Speaker 2: for people who maybe don't fall into that category. I
Speaker 2: always say this, This is a I call it like
Speaker 2: a ninety ten principle, where I say ninety of the
Speaker 2: golfing content is for the ten percent of people who
Speaker 2: either have a really low handicap or like I said,
Speaker 2: are out there every day practicing and song. It's not
Speaker 2: for the quote unquote average golfer who doesn't have the
Speaker 2: time to do that and has a family and someone
Speaker 2: And maybe we'll jump in on the video here and
Speaker 2: another there, but it'sn't really going to be clicking on
Speaker 2: every sort of link. Again, like to tip my hat
Speaker 2: to you. I think there's a massive, massive space there,
Speaker 2: and I think when people do watch things and read things,
Speaker 2: it's just remembering this might not be for me or
Speaker 2: made specifically for me, and it's just being aware of
Speaker 2: that when we do.
Speaker 1: Okay, Anthony, please put your hat back on. No tipping
Speaker 1: to me, because I've always felt very similarly that what
Speaker 1: here in the States watching the Golf Channel. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you have an equivalent or you get that
Speaker 1: the Golf Channel was always directed at single digit, at
Speaker 1: low digit, handicapped golfers, and there was not an approach
Speaker 1: a voice for everybody who you know, can't practice once
Speaker 1: a week, hopefully can play once a week, have a
Speaker 1: passion for the sport, have a passion for its history,
Speaker 1: have a passion for everything that surrounds it. But you know,
Speaker 1: as one player I played with years ago said to me,
Speaker 1: you know what I want for Christmas this year? What's that?
Speaker 1: He says? Two good shots in a row? I mean,
Speaker 1: this is this is who we are. And I think
Speaker 1: that's ninety nine percent of golfers, you know, are are
Speaker 1: the ones who are struggling to get into the nineties
Speaker 1: or the eighties. But we're always compelled to try one
Speaker 1: more time, go out again, because golf will do that
Speaker 1: to you. You get one good, one good shot that
Speaker 1: either sounds great or looks great, You're going I'm coming.
Speaker 2: Back, absolutely and I think, yeah, I can't sort of
Speaker 2: pull it a study. But I used to ask a
Speaker 2: lot of my people, a lot of the people like coach,
Speaker 2: would you rather shoot your handicap? Or yeah, would you
Speaker 2: rather shoot your handicap? Would you rather shoot two or
Speaker 2: three over your handicap? But hit it really well, And
Speaker 2: undoubtedly the reply was hit it really well again using
Speaker 2: the personalized thing. You just have to play golf the
Speaker 2: way you want to play golf. And let's say the
Speaker 2: use of statistics now and someone is absolutely great, is
Speaker 2: pushing the game forward. However, it is dividing golf into
Speaker 2: right and wrong. Okay, until you should be doing this
Speaker 2: and should be doing that. Okay, I'm in the land
Speaker 2: of biosteros. But if you're in the trees and you
Speaker 2: you know, you just enjoy hitting nice shots, you probably
Speaker 2: know the safe shot would be to punch out sideways.
Speaker 2: But if for that one out of fifty time you're
Speaker 2: able to punch it below the branches and then cutting
Speaker 2: the leather and so on, and it works its way
Speaker 2: up onto the green. It will be worth it. It
Speaker 2: will be one hundred percent worth it. And again, for
Speaker 2: a player, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We
Speaker 2: have to play golf the way we want to. And again,
Speaker 2: I because I'm a coach, asked to coaches, I'd say
Speaker 2: actually promoting that, encouraging that in players, even if it
Speaker 2: might not help the score depending on what the actual
Speaker 2: goal is. Again, yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. I
Speaker 2: always think, just last point, it's coaches will often feel
Speaker 2: compelled to think everyone wants to get their handicapped down.
Speaker 2: Everyone wants to They don't. They just don't. A lot
Speaker 2: of people just want to hit nice shots. And I
Speaker 2: think coaches will go off sometimes so okay, right, they
Speaker 2: assume in eighteen handicapped, for instance, wants to get down
Speaker 2: to twelve or someone because that's what they would have done. Okay,
Speaker 2: you need to be out on the putting green doing
Speaker 2: these drills and so on. Not interested, not interested, And
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with that. But again, it's actually actually
Speaker 2: for me encouraging that rather than resisting against it.
Speaker 1: Well, there's so many things that you said there that
Speaker 1: I want to go talk about. You know, the risk
Speaker 1: reward element of a shot under the trees, hobbling around,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. Right as you describe.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 1: You know, that's why we call the show golf smarter,
Speaker 1: right You, Yeah, you can see the flag, but you're
Speaker 1: not necessarily going to hit it, and you may end
Speaker 1: up with double or triple bogie where if you just
Speaker 1: go back out into the fairway, okay, you'll get a bogie.
Speaker 1: Let's walk away with that. So yeah, and the audience
Speaker 1: is going to you'll be able to hear the audience
Speaker 1: sing along with me on this. And one of our
Speaker 1: favorite lines is never follow a bad shot with a
Speaker 1: stupid shot, right, And.
Speaker 2: I'd say with this, it's all dependent on what the
Speaker 2: objective is. If the objective is school place smater and this,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't be able to say, all right, go for
Speaker 2: that shot if it's a one out of fifty, like
Speaker 2: I said, because there's nothing smart about there's nothing smart
Speaker 2: about that. But if the objective is actually yeah, if
Speaker 2: you're just playing with your friends and so on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you want to you want to be you
Speaker 1: want to beat them. I mean, if you're playing with
Speaker 1: your friends, there's probably some competition and money being exchanged.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends on the the your friends, I suppose.
Speaker 2: But again if the objective again, just if the objective
Speaker 2: is school, Yes, it's not always school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what it's the next shot. It's always the
Speaker 1: next shot, which is, as we know, the hardest shot
Speaker 1: in golf is the next one right now. And the
Speaker 1: other party you talked about the handicap and that, you know,
Speaker 1: let's also remember it's like, do you want to play
Speaker 1: to your handicap or do you want to you know,
Speaker 1: just have some good shots. The handicap is an indication
Speaker 1: of your potential, not your average score. Right, That's why
Speaker 1: they take of your last twenty rounds, they take the
Speaker 1: best eight. Say, you know, you have potential of playing here.
Speaker 1: And as we recently learned from Joel Suggs that the
Speaker 1: p is what he called the PGA, the bell curve
Speaker 1: of your scoring, which is poor, good, an average, right,
Speaker 1: and the bell curve being the top being the average,
Speaker 1: and then you've got poor and and everybody has that,
Speaker 1: and it could range with a single digit player, it
Speaker 1: can range seven or eight strokes and for a you know,
Speaker 1: a twenty handicap, it can range fifteen strokes, but you know,
Speaker 1: but you've got that, So the handicap is I'm not
Speaker 1: a big fan of that. Playing to the potential it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, because then all of a sudden people are
Speaker 1: gambling on your potential. It's like, okay, what you're index?
Speaker 1: All right, that's what you owe me two strokes? Like
Speaker 1: wait a minute, this is your course. You play from
Speaker 1: teeth farther back than I do. Neil, are you listening
Speaker 1: right now? We're playing at your course, We're playing at
Speaker 1: t's that I don't usually play, and I have to
Speaker 1: give you two strokes three strokes? Come on, man, there's
Speaker 1: got to be some balance here, even players, and we
Speaker 1: both know it. Yeah, but the numbers say you gotta
Speaker 1: give me three. Give me a break, man.
Speaker 2: Do you know how that? Because that actually do you
Speaker 2: know how I used to work? I can only speak
Speaker 2: for the UK, but before the changes in handicap how
Speaker 2: it used to work. Over that it was literally it
Speaker 2: wasn't the eight, it wasn't the eight best, it was
Speaker 2: just the average. So anytime, so anytime you played in
Speaker 2: the competition, in Again, I can only speak for the UK.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was the same in other
Speaker 2: places in Europe. You just you had your handicap, and
Speaker 2: if you played poorly, your handicap went up, and if
Speaker 2: you played well, your handicap went down point one, point
Speaker 2: two or whatever. And there always used to be a
Speaker 2: thing of oka, oh, the American systems. So I'm glad that.
Speaker 2: I'm glad You're not the only one. You're You're an
Speaker 2: honorary brit Thank you.
Speaker 1: Someday I'll make it there. I always wanted to go,
Speaker 1: and hopefully I got a big birthday coming up up
Speaker 1: next summer, i'd like to make it. I might like
Speaker 1: to make it over the UK to get some golf
Speaker 1: in for that. Yeah right, we'll talk about that later.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about instruction and personalizing. You talked about personalized
Speaker 1: versus generalize. Let's get deeper into that of how how
Speaker 1: how you personalize for a golfer? And I don't like
Speaker 1: asking two questions, but I'll go ahead and do that.
Speaker 1: And how long does it take for you to be
Speaker 1: able to personalize your instruction for a student?
Speaker 2: It doesn't take long. It just depends on how you
Speaker 2: see it. The thing I say, and yeah, I think
Speaker 2: this would be almost like a takeaway for anyone listening,
Speaker 2: and at least this is this is the way I
Speaker 2: see it. Try to work as much in what you
Speaker 2: know rather than in a realm that you know will work,
Speaker 2: rather than hope will work. So when it comes to gold,
Speaker 2: there are actually very few things that we know help everyone,
Speaker 2: and particularly with the swing thread, there's very very there
Speaker 2: are very very few things that everyone does that you
Speaker 2: can look on and the PGA tour and say, okay,
Speaker 2: everyone does it that way. So with that, and if
Speaker 2: I could just go go into detail with that, we
Speaker 2: know basically we know impact and we know bull flight,
Speaker 2: So everyone who is good will hit the ball first
Speaker 2: then grass. And you're talking the other week about low point,
Speaker 2: that's what we know. Everyone will hit the middle of
Speaker 2: the face or around the middle of the face. It
Speaker 2: doesn't lean towards drastically off the toe and drastically off
Speaker 2: the hill, and everyone will have the club face that's
Speaker 2: functionally straight. If if anyone's listened to Adam Young, those
Speaker 2: are three principles that he really that he really goes by,
Speaker 2: and I completely completely agree. So once you have that,
Speaker 2: then you can branch off into. And there are other
Speaker 2: things that we know. There are certain movements, for instance,
Speaker 2: that we know that we know basically everyone does. Is
Speaker 2: then actually again to a certain extent, experimenting different bids
Speaker 2: and seeing what works for you. And again, I'm not
Speaker 2: always the biggest thing, the biggest proponent of right and wrong,
Speaker 2: good and bad. It's actually, to a certain extent, trying stuff,
Speaker 2: and the coach can do this or a coach can
Speaker 2: help with that in various ways and seeing what works
Speaker 2: for you. The question that we that always sort of
Speaker 2: is in the back of our heads or is yeah,
Speaker 2: but could it be better? Could be better? And that's
Speaker 2: where you might have to show a little bit of
Speaker 2: a restraint of not actually just trying everything. The fact
Speaker 2: of the matter is, we don't know a hell of
Speaker 2: a lot. This is really positive, isn't it. We don't.
Speaker 2: We don't know a hell of a lot. And a
Speaker 2: lot of coaches will point at Furic, for instance, and say, well,
Speaker 2: imagine if his dad had changed his swing, well, we'd
Speaker 2: never have heard of him. Well, to be fair, we
Speaker 2: don't know that either. If some changes went into Furic
Speaker 2: when he was younger to make him quote unquote more conventional.
Speaker 2: He might have been a better player for all we know.
Speaker 2: So for me, it's working in a realm that you
Speaker 2: know will work and try to spend as much time
Speaker 2: in that realm as possible. Then it's seeing your patent,
Speaker 2: seeing how you want to play, and then personalizing around
Speaker 2: them all excuse me, personalizing a round those rather than hey,
Speaker 2: you know the cliche, the typical one sized fiscle trying
Speaker 2: to feel fit a model. Yeah, it's that's not ideal
Speaker 2: when that happens.
Speaker 1: First, I have to thank you for mentioning previous episodes
Speaker 1: that you've heard. So are you Are you a listener? Really?
Speaker 2: I am a listener, and I'm a self considered self
Speaker 2: confessed like golf nuts or golf improvement not and definitely
Speaker 2: a golf coaching nuts.
Speaker 1: So that leads me to the question and I and
Speaker 1: I truly appreciate you listening, but listening as an instructor?
Speaker 1: Do you listen because of other instructors being on this
Speaker 1: podcast and that you find this as additional study for you?
Speaker 2: Point blank? Yes? And I think you just got to
Speaker 2: You've got to keep your eyes open, in your ears
Speaker 2: to the ground, and you've got to be aware of
Speaker 2: what so and so are saying? And what so and
Speaker 2: so are saying? And again that's where the experimental bits
Speaker 2: come in. It's like, okay, a m I try that
Speaker 2: for a bit. It's not though it's being open to
Speaker 2: things but close to dogma. Is what I would say
Speaker 2: is to actually be really critical and really self critical.
Speaker 2: And I like to think for myself that I'm self critical.
Speaker 2: It's saying, okay, is this working? Does that work? Did
Speaker 2: that work? And when I listen to coaches and I yeah,
Speaker 2: I basically try to listen to everything. It's always almost
Speaker 2: with a critical eye, not a negative eye, but a
Speaker 2: critical eye of is this good or is this bad?
Speaker 2: A lot of it's good, a lot of it not
Speaker 2: so good. And then I just find my own find
Speaker 2: my own conclusion.
Speaker 1: As do I that is that is what we're looking for.
Speaker 1: It's like there's a lot of information that we receive
Speaker 1: and that we get, but it is sure great to
Speaker 1: be able to figure out how to separate yourself from
Speaker 1: all of an if I hate to call it noise
Speaker 1: because I'm contributing to it, but but there's a lot
Speaker 1: out there, and you know, I will get an email
Speaker 1: from somebody saying that guy who who was on last
Speaker 1: week really didn't connect with me, you know, or they
Speaker 1: can say something a little more harsh than that, but
Speaker 1: the point is that it didn't connect. And I inevitably
Speaker 1: will write back and say wait till next week because
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a different voice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then there'd be something else. And again, there's
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with it disconnecting. No, Yeah, it's just it's
Speaker 2: just that's not exactly right. It's just deciphering and again
Speaker 2: being critical of For me, it's if there are exceptions
Speaker 2: to the rule, is probably not the rule. So it's
Speaker 2: sticking with that. And then it's okay being aware of preferences.
Speaker 2: You might have certain preferences, but at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, they're just that. It's not holding onto them
Speaker 2: for their life. It's understanding their preferences and then working
Speaker 2: at your own Now.
Speaker 1: Now your website is golf Coachinstitute dot com. You work,
Speaker 1: do you instruct instructors?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's that's basically what I do now. So
Speaker 2: I said that are left in March at my previous
Speaker 2: employment and I just go full time on this now.
Speaker 2: So at the moment, I'm mentoring other coaches around some
Speaker 2: of the topics that I that I talked about today
Speaker 2: and enjoying myself great.
Speaker 1: I hope it's succeeding for you. I know that when
Speaker 1: recreational golfers call them amateur golfers if you'd like, but
Speaker 1: recreational golfers that come to an instructor, you know, and
Speaker 1: the instructor will ask the first couple basic questions, But
Speaker 1: the answer inevitably is, I want more consistency, I want
Speaker 1: greater distance. Probably the number one and number two requests
Speaker 1: that instructors get, and there's probably three and four there
Speaker 1: as well. But what is it when instructors come to you,
Speaker 1: what is number one, two, three, or four of the
Speaker 1: request that they have about, you know, from you as
Speaker 1: a mentor to them? What do they want to improve on?
Speaker 1: What do they want to know that will help them
Speaker 1: become a better instructor.
Speaker 2: It's a really good question. I would say only one.
Speaker 2: What they're saying, or what they're saying they know isn't
Speaker 2: fully the case, isn't fully right. And I appreciate that
Speaker 2: more than anything because it shows to me that they're
Speaker 2: critical about what they're saying. You'll have and I don't
Speaker 2: want to be critical of coaches here sometimes if I
Speaker 2: can let everyone get to peek behind the curtain of
Speaker 2: the golf coach here, there's a bit of a power
Speaker 2: trip that happens with coaching where someone's hitting it poorly.
Speaker 2: I change something bomb they're hitting it, well, how good
Speaker 2: am I brilliant? But on the flip side, there are
Speaker 2: cases where you say something and they don't get it
Speaker 2: and it's not working. Okay, And again everything not everything,
Speaker 2: but a lot of the things we see online are
Speaker 2: edited and made it look like everything works every time.
Speaker 2: But just coaching is really hard and golf is really
Speaker 2: really a really really hard spot, so it's not going
Speaker 2: to be there every time. But with coaches sometimes as
Speaker 2: a sort of washing of their hands, the responsibility of ah,
Speaker 2: they just didn't get it or they just got to
Speaker 2: put in the time, where as I say, well, actually,
Speaker 2: maybe maybe you didn't get it. Yeah, maybe maybe the
Speaker 2: advice needs to be better, or how you can douct
Speaker 2: the session needs to be better. So really, I'm I'm
Speaker 2: positive when people come to me and say I just
Speaker 2: get the impression of what I'm saying isn't isn't really
Speaker 2: the answer, because it shows that there is a critical
Speaker 2: side and especially starting out younger coaches, it will be
Speaker 2: the case where it's it probably isn't the answer. Uh.
Speaker 2: And so a lot of people come and ask me
Speaker 2: for advice in that there there to a certain extent
Speaker 2: happy with what they're doing. Information wise, I think is okay,
Speaker 2: but the application and so on, it's just they know
Speaker 2: it's maybe not fully there.
Speaker 1: It's that's just like golf to me, it's your your
Speaker 1: intention versus execution the teacher. You know. And you asked
Speaker 1: me about how many lessons I've had that also included
Speaker 1: a weekend golf school. Early and early in the podcast,
Speaker 1: there was a golf academy in Arizona that my wife
Speaker 1: and I went to. My wife was like brand new
Speaker 1: to golf. She still is. She's not listening. I can
Speaker 1: say this. She says, yeah, I played cold. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: you don't.
Speaker 2: She's a really good plan.
Speaker 1: About six years ago. You can't. And she goes, let's
Speaker 1: go on playing. I'm like, I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1: It's not going to be fun for me. But we
Speaker 1: went to this golf school and there was an instructor
Speaker 1: that I was working with at this school. To remain nameless,
Speaker 1: mainly because I forgot her name, but she was saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: just do this, and I'm like, I don't understand what
Speaker 1: that means, because we'll just do that. I'm like, do what.
Speaker 1: She goes what I what I'm telling you to do what?
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's like, I don't understand that though I
Speaker 1: don't understand how to execute that. How can you reframe it?
Speaker 1: Can you restate it so I might be able to
Speaker 1: comprehend what you're saying. And it just came back the
Speaker 1: same way. So intention versus execution from a coach as
Speaker 1: well as the amateur golfer. You know, our intent. Our
Speaker 1: intent is so important here on every shot.
Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier. And that's the thing I mentioned earlier
Speaker 2: about it being a relationship, and for a relationship there
Speaker 2: has to be equal amounts of input and equal amounts
Speaker 2: of responsibility on both sides. So if the player is saying, God,
Speaker 2: that coach was terrible all the time when they haven't
Speaker 2: maybe actually practiced what the coach was saying and so on,
Speaker 2: that's not great. But at the same time, a coach
Speaker 2: saying they just didn't get it, they're not that good,
Speaker 2: that's not great either. And it's a really important point
Speaker 2: for it. It's a cliched one, but really sort of
Speaker 2: top coaches, we'll be able to say things that resonate,
Speaker 2: and we'll be able to demonstrate and resonate and leave
Speaker 2: a mark on the player. It's one of those things
Speaker 2: that all things get said, Okay, I didn't understand, and
Speaker 2: then they said it a different way than I did understand.
Speaker 2: It's absolutely it's absolutely right, and the really really top
Speaker 2: coaches will be able to transcend what you even thought
Speaker 2: about happening in the golf lesson not just through not
Speaker 2: just through the result and the success you have in
Speaker 2: that golf session, but also the relationship that you have
Speaker 2: with them and the sport in the sports in general.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we talked about your website is golf Coachinstitute
Speaker 1: dot com. Do you work with recreational amateur players or
Speaker 1: is it you primarily focused on working with instructors.
Speaker 2: It's just instructors at the moment, but there's a you know,
Speaker 2: when I when I was playing a bit, I would
Speaker 2: still just look at all the instructors work on Golf
Speaker 2: Digest and so on. So there's still a hell of
Speaker 2: a lot of a hell of a lot of good
Speaker 2: stuff for players and also, and I suppose there was
Speaker 2: almost the topic of the conversation today or right, things
Speaker 2: that you can just keep an eye out in your
Speaker 2: own work with with your coach or if you are
Speaker 2: looking for a coach. There's a few there's a few
Speaker 2: useful points in there.
Speaker 1: Feel well, Anthony, I truly appreciate your support of listening
Speaker 1: to the podcast and reaching out to have this conversation
Speaker 1: because I found it absolutely fascinating and I've learned a lot,
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for coming on to the
Speaker 1: Golf Smarter podcast.
Speaker 2: Thanks Ritt. Honestly, if you do a head of a
Speaker 2: lot of good stuff. So yeah, I was really really
Speaker 2: happy to join