WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.919 What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 2 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:08.359 Epstein Chronicles. So we have the Bill Barr transcript from 3 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:12.279 his deposition that he gave to the committee when he 4 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:15.560 sat down for a talk a few weeks ago. So 5 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:17.839 in this episode, we're going to begin taking a look 6 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:21.519 at that transcript and at what Bill Barr had to 7 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.039 say during this interrogation, if you want to call it that. 8 00:00:26.519 --> 00:00:28.399 So obviously Bill Barr is going to be the one 9 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:31.239 answering the questions, and we have a lot of redactions here, 10 00:00:31.839 --> 00:00:34.280 so if we don't have a name for the person 11 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:37.640 asking the question, I'll say redacted, and then I'll ask 12 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:41.759 the question, and then obviously the answers are from Bill 13 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.560 Darth Barr, unless, of course, something changes, and if it does, 14 00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:48.200 I'll make sure I let you know as we're going 15 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.280 through this. All right, So we're going to start with 16 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:54.479 the examination and we're going to bypass them, swearing them 17 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:59.600 in by redacted. So the person asking the questions is 18 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:03.159 redact question. Very briefly, we want to go through your 19 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:06.400 background and the only two experiences that I think are 20 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:09.719 relevant today. Where did you attend undergrad in what year 21 00:01:09.799 --> 00:01:14.519 did you graduate? Barr graduated Columbia College in seventy one. 22 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:17.840 I got my master's from Columbia in seventy three, went 23 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:20.480 to law school at GW here in Washington at night, 24 00:01:20.840 --> 00:01:25.439 and graduated in nineteen seventy seven. Question, thank you. Answer? 25 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:29.200 During that time I worked at CIA. Question and then 26 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:32.799 President HW Bush appointed you to be United States Attorney 27 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:37.239 General from ninety one to ninety three? Is that correct? Barr? Yes? 28 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:39.480 I was in the department at the start of his 29 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:43.959 administration and he ultimately appointed me attorney general. Question and 30 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:47.159 then President Trump appointed you attorney general in February of 31 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:50.599 twenty nineteen, and then you left in December of twenty 32 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:55.319 twenty correct answer, right, I was confirmed in February of 33 00:01:55.359 --> 00:02:00.799 twenty nineteen. Question were you acting prior to your confirmation? Answer? 34 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:04.480 No question. Moving on to the topic at hand, just 35 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:08.199 some preliminary questions. Have you ever met mister Epstein? Answer? 36 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:13.840 Have I? What? Question? Have you ever met Jeffrey Epstein? Barr? 37 00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:17.599 Not to my knowledge. Question I'll pause for a minute, 38 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.759 Miss Crockett, do you mind identifying yourself for the record? 39 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:25.520 And now we got Jasmin Crockett asking questions? Yes, Jasmin Crockett, 40 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:29.840 Texas thirty question and then have you ever met Miss 41 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:33.879 Glenn Maxwell? Answer not to my knowledge. Question in general, 42 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:37.319 is the Attorney General aware of every federal criminal investigation 43 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:42.240 that's happening at any given point? Answer no. Question What 44 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:46.159 sort of cases would the Attorney General be made aware of? Answer? Well, 45 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:50.360 generally things would percolate. Generally, people would report into the 46 00:02:50.360 --> 00:02:53.759 Deputy Attorney General every morning. I would have a staff 47 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:57.199 meeting where the deputy participated and his principal staff and 48 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:00.560 my own staff, and matters that had come that required 49 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:05.560 my attention would come through that system. Sometimes offices would 50 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:08.919 directly communicate with me, especially when there was a conflict, 51 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:11.840 but matters would either come to my attention if there 52 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:14.879 was a disagreement within the department or if it was 53 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:19.280 a matter of national importance. Question did jur your staff 54 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:23.800 closely monitor high profile cases within the United States? Answer? 55 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:27.120 I think my staff monitored high profile cases and brought 56 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.479 things to my attention that they felt I should be 57 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:33.719 aware of. Question and then for pretty much the remainder 58 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:37.159 of the deposition will focus on your time as Attorney 59 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:41.599 General in the first Trump administration. Answer sure, question do 60 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:44.520 you have any conversations about Epstein case while you are 61 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:49.479 attorney general. Answer by bar any conversations. Question Yeah, just 62 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:53.520 broadly answer yes. Question do you recall when the first 63 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:57.560 one was Answer? I became at some point, and this 64 00:03:57.800 --> 00:03:59.879 was six years ago, but I became aware that the 65 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:04.639 Southern District was conducting an investigation. I think it was 66 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:06.800 a little bit before his arrest, but I can't be 67 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.400 sure that it could have been around the time of 68 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:11.879 his arrest, but I was aware that they were conducting 69 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:16.480 an investigation. Now, I don't recall specific discussion surrounding that. 70 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:19.360 I could tell you what my understanding of what they 71 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.839 were investigating, but I don't remember particular conversations. It's just 72 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:27.480 my impression of what came up at the time. Question. 73 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:32.639 Can you describe your general understanding of what they were investigating? Answer? So, 74 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:36.480 my understanding was that they were investigating whether he committed 75 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:40.720 trafficking offenses, particularly focusing on his exploitation of young women, 76 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:43.360 and they were trying to make the case against them. 77 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.639 And in that context, they were also looking at whether 78 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:51.199 any individuals were accomplices or complicit in that activity, either 79 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:55.000 as facilitators. As you know, they ultimately went after and 80 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:59.160 convicted Glenn Maxwell, and I think they were and I 81 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:01.600 know they were all also looking at whether there was 82 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:05.399 evidence to charge anyone with participating in trafficking by having 83 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:09.399 their involvement with the traffic victims. Question, To the best 84 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:12.240 that you can, can you describe the difference between what 85 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:15.519 participating in the trafficking would be and what facilitating that 86 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:20.839 trafficking would be? Answer? Having well, the latter, I mean, 87 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:25.240 I'm sorry, participation as would be having illicit sex with 88 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:29.920 a miner a traffic miner question and facilitating answer or 89 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:34.439 anyone who was trafficking question? Yeah, answer by bar. But 90 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:37.879 certainly what the focus was on was illicit sexual activity 91 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:41.800 with a miner. Question? And then what would facilitating be 92 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:45.240 of I believe miss Maxwell was? And to that bar 93 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:49.439 cuts off the person asking the question. Answer helping conscript 94 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.800 young girls into Epstein's network of young girls who primarily 95 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:56.519 were involved in giving the massages and engaged in sexual 96 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:00.600 activity with them. Question. And then you say, you don't 97 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:03.000 correct me if I'm wrong. Don't really recall more than 98 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:07.639 the general conversations at that point in time, answer right, question, 99 00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:11.160 do you recall who those conversations were with or kind 100 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:15.600 of surrounding the arrest of Epstein in twenty nineteen. Answer, yeah, 101 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:18.560 it was either before it could have been before the arrest, 102 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:21.000 but certainly by the time of the arrest I was 103 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:23.759 aware of it, and it would have been It would 104 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:26.759 have been the people who normally attend my meeting. It 105 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:29.199 could have been a conversation with the US attorney, but 106 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:32.319 I don't remember if it was. Question do you recall 107 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:35.600 who normally attended those meetings? You might have said earlier, 108 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:38.839 but answer it would have been the deputy and the 109 00:06:38.839 --> 00:06:42.000 deputy's principal associate, as well as my chief of staff 110 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.680 and sometimes additional members of the staff. And it would 111 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:48.040 also include from time to time, you know, other people, 112 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.360 other members of the staff who were directly concerned with 113 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:54.920 the matter. Question do you recall any conversations with the 114 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:57.920 FBI at that point in time, still sticking to surrounding 115 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:02.319 his arrest? Answer no, question, And then you said you 116 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:04.959 might have included the US attorney. Are you referring to 117 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:07.319 the US attorney for the Southern District of New York 118 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:11.680 Answer Jeff Berman. Yes. Answer do you recall any conversations 119 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.360 with anyone in the Southern District of Florida that time? Answer? 120 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:18.800 I don't recall. Question and then do you recall any 121 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:22.480 conversations with mister alex Acosta at that time. Answer not 122 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:26.399 not about this case. Question not about Epstein. Answer not 123 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:31.040 about Epstein. Question Okay, he obviously served in the administration 124 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:36.360 bar yes, question with you so in other cases Answer yes, 125 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:42.199 question similar questions, different timeframe and different subject form. Miss Maxwell. 126 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:45.519 Do you recall any conversations about Miss Maxwell or the 127 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:49.160 Maxwell case when you were Attorney General? Answer yes, I 128 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:53.160 can't pinpoint particular discussions. I think once he committed suicide, 129 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:56.160 you know, the office. I remember being told and agreeing 130 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:58.480 that the office had to go full boar ahead on 131 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.560 finding other crimes that may have been committed, including looking 132 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:04.680 for people who are accomplices in some way or complicit 133 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:06.920 in some way. And her name came up in that 134 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.720 context obviously as a prime person. Question and don't recall 135 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:14.160 just to avoid the same list of people. But don't 136 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:18.480 recall specific conversations with anybody regarding the case. Answer. I 137 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:21.120 may have had some conversations with Berman where he said 138 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:23.120 in the wake of the suicide that he you know 139 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:26.959 that the office was very much committed to continuing the case, 140 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:32.399 getting to the bottom of everything. Question I'm going to 141 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:35.240 and to that she's cut off or he's cut off 142 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:39.320 by bar Answer. I would say she disappeared and there 143 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:42.120 was this embarrassing period where they couldn't locate her, and 144 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:44.320 you know, at some point I became aware that they 145 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.840 were prepared to indict her and that they couldn't find her. 146 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:50.840 But aside from that general information, I couldn't recall anything 147 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:55.320 specific about that question. I believe they eventually found her 148 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:57.799 in like a cabin in Vermont or something. Answer New 149 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.240 Hampshire question, New Hampshire. Do you recall how they ended 150 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:04.759 up finding her? Answer? No, I don't. Question. I'm going 151 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:07.120 to shift ahead in the timeline a little bit to 152 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:10.879 mister Epstein's death while at MCC in Manhattan. So you 153 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:14.600 previously stated that you're personally reviewed the security footage from 154 00:09:14.759 --> 00:09:18.759 MCC from August ninth, twenty nineteen, into the morning of 155 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:22.639 August tenth. We'll put up with the department has since 156 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:25.679 released just so you can review it. And I just 157 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:27.960 want to ask you a first question. Does this look 158 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:30.559 like the security footage that you would have reviewed at 159 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:34.720 the time. Answer No, I can't remember specifically the security 160 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:38.080 footage and what the composition of it was. I do 161 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:40.440 recall that it showed the common area and a portion 162 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:44.399 of the stairway up to tyrrel. I think it's tyrrel. Question. Yes, 163 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:47.399 so I'll ask some more specific questions. But this is 164 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:50.799 about eleven hours that the department released this month or 165 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:55.080 so ago. And well, we'll look at it schematically. It's 166 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:57.840 a camera pointed towards the common area of the special 167 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:01.879 housing unit at MCC. The stairway on the left goes 168 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:04.519 to a different tier, and then you can see a 169 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:07.200 very little bit of stairway on the right that goes 170 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:12.159 to Tier L. Answer, uh huh, question, but you do answer. 171 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:16.720 I really can't compare it because I can't really remember question. Yeah, 172 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:21.799 answer exactly what I saw. I remember. What I remember 173 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:24.960 about what I saw is that the resolution was good 174 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:26.919 enough that I could see what the guards were up to, 175 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:30.200 the corrections officers were doing. I mean, not crystal clear, 176 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.720 but I could tell that they were looking at computers 177 00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:36.200 and working on computers and so forth. So I remember 178 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:38.600 that the resolution was pretty good, and it may have 179 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:41.679 been it could have been an enhanced or enlarge part 180 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:45.279 of this. I just don't remember. Question. And to the 181 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:48.159 best of your recollection, were there any anomalies in the 182 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:51.559 tape that you reviewed any missing minutes or anything like that. 183 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:54.960 Answer not that I'm aware of. I was told that 184 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.200 it covered the period from the time he was put 185 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:00.120 in his cell to the time he was discovered. I 186 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:02.720 wasn't told of any missing minute and didn't notice any. 187 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:06.519 Question do you recall viewing other camera angles, like a 188 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:10.120 camera pointed down to your l or a camera in 189 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:14.360 the stairwell or anything. Answer? I do remember other footage 190 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:18.159 looking at other footage as well, but I think some 191 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:21.720 may have been in the hallways or interesces things like that. Question. 192 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:26.320 Did the Inspector General end up reviewing mister Epstein's death 193 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:31.080 investigating Answer? Yeah, question and they found that the camera 194 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:34.159 pointed directly down l block was transmitting in real time 195 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:37.840 but not recording to DVR. Answer yeah. Question does that 196 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:42.240 match your recollection? Answer? That matches my recollection. Let me 197 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:44.320 just say that, you know, that video came to me 198 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.279 after but a lot of information started coming to me 199 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:49.639 immediately in the wake of his death, and I was 200 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:52.159 getting a lot of information sort of real time and 201 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:55.360 including from the Bureau, And as I found out things, 202 00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:58.120 you know, I started reaching my conclusions and this sort 203 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:03.039 of came later in my process. Question Okay, answer, it 204 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:06.639 wasn't the first thing I looked at. Question. Yeah, answer, 205 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:09.840 I think it took some time of working to get 206 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:14.159 whatever they were getting to me. So question, I'll try 207 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:16.240 to cover as much as I can, but we'll start 208 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:19.879 with the video redacted. I'm going to go ahead and 209 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:23.279 introduce what will be Exhibit three, just because I think 210 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:26.240 it'll help in the discussion. All right, folks, we're gonna 211 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.240 wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're 212 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:30.480 gonna pick up where we left off. All of the 213 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:33.600 information that goes with this episode can be found in 214 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.639 the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another 215 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:40.399 episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're picking 216 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:43.200 up where we left off with Bill barr and his 217 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:48.799 Epstein related deposition. So the exhibit that they show is 218 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:52.120 a map of the special housing unit, the top tier 219 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:56.360 of the special housing unit at MCC with the cell 220 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:02.080 and it's produced by CBS Bill Barry. Yeh question, and 221 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:05.240 mister Epstein's cell is the one highlighted in red. And 222 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:07.759 just while we're looking at this and looking at the 223 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:10.919 camera footage, the camera angle that we're looking at is 224 00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:13.720 a little alcove and kind of the center of the map. 225 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:20.080 Mister O'Callahan, this is you're representing that redacted about redacted. Yes, 226 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.200 I am, mister O'Callahan. Okay, redacted, and I can pull 227 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:27.440 the CBS article, mister O'Callahan. I just want to make 228 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:30.759 sure he's looking at where you're appointing redacted. So the 229 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:35.000 camera positioned right there, mister O'Callahan, see look at what 230 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:39.919 redacted is doing redacted. That camera position right here and 231 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:43.360 pointed towards the common area, mister o callahan, So it's 232 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:49.240 up here, bar okay, I'm glad, yeah, mister O'Callahan. And 233 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:55.279 that's a cell bar right, mister callahan, okay, redacted, all right, 234 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.440 I'm going to play thirty ish seconds just so we 235 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:00.960 can get our bearings on what the movings of the 236 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:05.960 jail look like at mister O'Callahan. Is Bill Barr's lawyer question. 237 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:09.320 So just while this is playing, you see what appears 238 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:12.120 to be corrections officers kind of walking around the common 239 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:15.480 area going back to the desk. And then there are 240 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.639 specific points I want to point out so that corrections 241 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:21.120 officers came from what appears to be a blind spot 242 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:24.559 on the camera towards the right, and that inmate came 243 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:26.840 from what appears to be a blind spot on the 244 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:30.799 camera to the right. We can pause it. I understand 245 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.519 we reviewed fifteen seconds of the footage, but based off 246 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:35.559 that review, do you agree that there is a bit 247 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:37.960 of a blind spot on this camera blocked by the 248 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:43.320 stair landing and that cell answer yes, redacted. I'm going 249 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:45.320 to shift ahead to the nine to twenty mark, so 250 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.679 I will preface this with this seven forty nine pm 251 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:54.039 on August ninth, twenty nineteen hit play video shown redacted. 252 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.639 So this video shows mister Epstein escorted from escorted by 253 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:01.919 corrections officers from making a phone call back to his 254 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.279 cell in L Block. So you can see him kind 255 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:07.480 of go out of the frame and go up those 256 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:12.320 stairs to L Block. Mister O'Callahan again redacted, you're representing 257 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:17.639 that that's Epstein walking through redacted? Yes, and O'Callahan you 258 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:21.919 can't really tell redacted. So is the doj ig and 259 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.679 the FBI the witness meaning bar I'm not going to 260 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:30.320 challenge it, redacted, okay, And that was going to be 261 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.639 my next is that your recollection of that scene as well, 262 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.600 that around seven to forty nine PM, mister Epstein went 263 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:40.320 to his cell for the evening answer, I can't actually 264 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:43.080 say that's my recollection of events that I saw in 265 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.360 the video, which is him being taken to the cell 266 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:50.679 that was seven forty nine or whatever. Question and then again, 267 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:54.000 understanding that we watched about ten seconds of that walk 268 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:57.200 from his phone to his cell. But in addition to 269 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:01.120 the blind spot of the camera kind off like to 270 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.600 the right, it's also a bit of a blind spot 271 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:06.279 on the staircase up to L Block. Would you agree 272 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:09.759 answer on this video, you know, only a portion of 273 00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:13.080 the stairway all the way as reflected, and my recollection 274 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:16.200 was a portion of the stairway was reflected on the video. 275 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:21.759 Question that you reviewed as well? Answer yes, question Okay, 276 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:24.559 do you recall reviewing any video that showed the staircase 277 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:28.600 in its entirety? Answer no question. Do you recall reviewing 278 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:32.120 any video that showed L Block in its entirety? Answer 279 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.799 no question. So going back to the diagram and understanding 280 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:39.600 kind of again, we reviewed all of thirty seconds of 281 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:42.480 this footage, but I am representing that it's the thirty 282 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:46.120 seconds that surround his death or surround him. Going back 283 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:49.080 to his cell. The blind spot also includes this door 284 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:52.159 on the kind of center of the schematic, which is 285 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.360 an entrance into the special housing unit. And just asking, 286 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.960 based off your experience and everything that you've reviewed, looking 287 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.039 at this, looking at the video, the only video that's 288 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:05.519 publicly available, is it possible for someone to get up 289 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.720 to mister Epstein's cell while evading that camera? Answer? I 290 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:13.680 don't believe so. Question you don't believe so? Answer no, 291 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:17.119 question even though part of the staircase is blocked and 292 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.640 the entire doorway would be blocked. Answer yes, I do 293 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.200 not think it was physically possible for someone else to 294 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:27.960 go up that stairway. Question and then the question asker 295 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:32.720 is cut off by bar you, but then he's cut off. 296 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:35.400 Question at the time you said you believe no one 297 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:39.279 entered L Block between the time? Answer not just because 298 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:43.680 of the cameras though. Question uh huh, bar yeah. Question 299 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.279 so what other evidence did you have to support that 300 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:49.160 statement that no one entered L Block between seven and 301 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:53.079 fifty ish? And answer? Okay, Well, I know we're starting 302 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:55.680 with the video, but for me, the video was the 303 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.519 icing on the cake. Okay. Question okay. Answer, So there 304 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:01.279 was a lot of evidence about you know, a state 305 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.920 of mind, and other physical evidence pointing to suicide, and 306 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:09.920 also testimonial in records pointing to this. But one aspect 307 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:13.240 of this is that the shoe itself physically isolated from 308 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:15.359 the rest of the facility and that it only has 309 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:19.200 two entrance ways. The primary entrance way has to be 310 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:22.599 opened remotely by central control, so no one would have 311 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:25.799 the key for it, and it was my understanding that 312 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:28.720 that would leave a record of it being opened, so 313 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:30.880 there was no way to come in that door except 314 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.240 going through central control having it remotely opened. And the 315 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:38.119 second door the second question, I'm sorry, just the primary 316 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:40.359 door is the door in the center of the schematic 317 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:43.039 that appears open in the picture. Is that the primary one? 318 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:48.119 Mister O'Callahan, he's saying, this one bar the one up 319 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.279 here redacted? Yes, O'Callahan. Are you pointing to the black 320 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:59.000 rectangular section. Yes, O'Callahan, he's saying, it's that question, which 321 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:03.119 one is the primary end entrance into the sachu Answer? Well, 322 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:06.599 I don't recognize the schematic, but from my recollection is 323 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.039 the primary The primary exit is over on the right 324 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:14.839 hand side. Question okay, answer, and if it's over here, 325 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:17.000 then I would have to see the schematic. But my 326 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.720 recollection is that you have to come up an elevator 327 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:22.039 and then you get into a room where you have 328 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:24.480 to get through the control door that can only be 329 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:27.880 opened centrally, and then once you get through that, you 330 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:31.920 come through the door that immediately enters onto the sahu 331 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.279 and that requires a key, and my understanding was that 332 00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:38.400 the key to that was held by the officers inside 333 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:40.799 the shoe and they would have to come and let 334 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:44.240 the person in. That's my understanding. So I think that 335 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:46.880 it was not physically possible in the first instance, well 336 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:49.640 in my opinion, for someone to come through there. But 337 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.559 otherwise it was also my judgment that the video corroborated 338 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.960 that because number one, it showed the two officers who 339 00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.160 were in the shoe, the only ones in the shoe 340 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.920 at the time, did not leave their desk, so they 341 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:05.799 didn't go to let anyone in question uh huh answer. 342 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.559 And second it was my judgment from what I saw 343 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:10.799 on the camera and what I looked at, I didn't 344 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:12.519 think it was possible for someone to get up to 345 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:15.160 the tier and open the door without being picked up 346 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:19.519 on cameras. So question opening the door would also potentially 347 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:23.279 make noise. Answer, Oh, clearly, it's a big, heavy still door. 348 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:28.720 Question yeah answer, yeah, question, thank you. And then you 349 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.400 said that in the central command had to open one 350 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:35.440 of the doors, and then a key answer yes, question 351 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:38.839 located at the guard desk had to open another set 352 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:45.160 of doors. Right. Question. Did you review the command logs? Answer? No, 353 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.759 I didn't. Question nobody entered. Answer I didn't review them. 354 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.640 No question, Oh, you didn't review the command logs? Are 355 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:55.759 you aware of the to that the person asking the 356 00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:00.599 question is cut off? Answer? I didn't personally review them. 357 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.200 I was aware that they had judged that it was 358 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.200 not possible for someone to come in. Question are you 359 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:09.119 aware if anyone reviewed whether or not an entrance or 360 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:12.680 exit was logged? Answer? I believe the Bureau was looking 361 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:15.440 at that intensively, the whole issue of whether this could 362 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:19.640 have been anything other than a suicide. Question Are you 363 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:22.519 referring to the Bureau of Prisons or the FBI? Answer? 364 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.279 I'm sorry, the FBI question, thank you answer, and the 365 00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:30.079 IG question and they did an almost four year investigation 366 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:35.559 into this, I think answer the IG did question yeah. 367 00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:39.039 Answer the Bureau was much quicker. Question. Now we're going 368 00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:41.440 to go back back in time based on the evidence 369 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:45.720 that you reviewed, around six thirty am on August tenth. 370 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:49.799 I'm not sure they're title, but the individual delivering breakfast 371 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.400 to the inmates attempted deliver breakfast to mister Epstein. He 372 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.559 did not answer his door. He called the guards, and 373 00:21:56.599 --> 00:21:59.599 they found the body and began providing medical care. Does 374 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.000 it sound correct to you to the best of your recollection? 375 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:06.680 Answer yes, question, and then about an hour later, he 376 00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.759 was pronounced dead at a hospital at New York Presbyterian. 377 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:13.000 I believe in New York. Answer, I know he was 378 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:16.680 pronounced dead at the hospital. Yeah. Question When were you 379 00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:20.519 first informed of mister Epstein's death? Answer it was Sunday morning. 380 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:22.759 I was in my study at home, and I got 381 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:25.480 a call from my chief of staff saying that Epstein 382 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:29.480 died from an apparent suicide. Question. Do you recall about 383 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:34.720 how close in time it was to the pronouncement of death. Answer? 384 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:37.039 I don't recall. It was in the morning, I believe. 385 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:40.720 Question and it's still your opinion today that mister Epstein 386 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:45.559 died by suicide. Answer absolutely. Question, Before getting into what 387 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:49.319 kind of the investigation looked like after that, what information 388 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:52.160 was flowing to you? Do you know, to the best 389 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.160 of your knowledge, what are the policies and procedures in 390 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.160 place that were in place to ensure that mister Epstein 391 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:02.119 didn't commit suicide. Answer, well, there had been, as you know, 392 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:04.599 there had been an attempt at suicide in July, and 393 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:07.279 based on that they put them under suicide Watch, which 394 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:11.480 is the most intensive form of monitoring. And when he 395 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:14.400 was taken off suicide Watch, based on the psychologists at 396 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.279 the MCC making the determination that he could be taken 397 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.599 off that kind of intensive watch, I found out afterward, 398 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.759 you know, his lawyers had been pressing hard for him 399 00:23:24.759 --> 00:23:27.839 to be let out of suicide Watch, and in any event, 400 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:30.559 he was put on the next level down, which was 401 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.000