WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.520 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.120 in the True Story FM family of Entertainment podcasts. 3 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:07.160 Ever, wonder where the Devil got his horns? 4 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:08.960 How about those clove and hoovers for that pitch for 5 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:10.160 it list me an angel? 6 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:11.119 No, he was a snake. 7 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:12.720 No, he's the great Red Drag. 8 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:14.119 No, he's the beast. 9 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:15.320 He's the Prince of this. 10 00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:18.480 World, Prince of Darkness, believes the Prince of dark Good 11 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:21.239 Morning Star Loveli's one of my names is Lester Ryan. 12 00:00:21.079 --> 00:00:23.480 Clark and I sometimes go by Keenan Dias. 13 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:25.399 And we're the hosts of the brand new podcast The 14 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:28.800 Devil's Details. What comes to mind when I say Lucifer? 15 00:00:28.839 --> 00:00:29.640 How about Satan? 16 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:32.240 What about just the Devil? How did the big bad 17 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:34.600 of the Western world end up with so many faces? 18 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:37.679 Join us as we dig up, decipher, and deconstruct the 19 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:39.320 Devil's many forms throughout history. 20 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:41.960 Take a guided tour with Dante through the Nine Circles 21 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:42.399 of Hell. 22 00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:45.840 Or revisit Satan's angsty bad boy years in Paradise Loss. 23 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.880 Learn the ins and outs of a Faustian contract. 24 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:50.039 Easier than a ten ninety nine, but with a hell 25 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:51.359 of a lot more fine, Prince. 26 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:54.000 Slither on over to the Devil's Details on True Story 27 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:56.960 FM and join us in the Diabolic discussion. 28 00:00:56.560 --> 00:00:59.119 Love and His is Wah didn't al Pacino play him 29 00:00:59.119 --> 00:00:59.439 in a movie? 30 00:00:59.560 --> 00:00:59.679 Sure? 31 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:00.000 There wasn't. 32 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:01.799 Robert didn't. 33 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:02.719 That was Elizabeth. 34 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:04.040 He go down to Georgia and. 35 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:10.560 Some Hey, hey, apes, Hey, you see that snickers over there? 36 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.400 No one's looking. You should just take it. 37 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:19.719 No, don't listen to him, my son, that would be stealing. 38 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:21.480 And stealing is a. 39 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:25.799 Sin, Sinchman, It's a faking snick as may you deserve 40 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:26.480 to have it. 41 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:28.640 Sinning really satisfies you to. 42 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:29.920 Repent, my child. 43 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:34.319 Virtue is the only real snack with saving for that 44 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:38.439 candy body is merely a gateway to nukeet dumbation. 45 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:43.920 Has this ever happened to you? 46 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:46.239 Listening to the devil on one shoulder and an angel 47 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:48.040 on the other, and you're not sure what to think? 48 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:50.840 Then we're here to help. I'm Pete Wright. 49 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:52.879 And I'm Tommy mess The third and this season on 50 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:55.959 All the Feelings, we're examining the seven deadly. 51 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:58.400 Sins, you note, the fun ones. 52 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.760 And the seven heavenly virtue, which. 53 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:04.400 Are also a thing through personal stories historical oddities, and 54 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:06.879 way too much embarrassment. We take you on a thrilling 55 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.400 journey through all the goods and the bads you hear 56 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:11.000 about in church, but. 57 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:14.039 Without all that pesky church stuff. So come join us 58 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:16.840 for All the Feelings Season nine, a sometimes funny podcast 59 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:20.400 about being human, All the sins, all the virtues, all. 60 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:22.800 In one place. Go to All the Feelings dot fun 61 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.879 to learn more, or subscribe to All the Feelings wherever 62 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:27.080 you get your podcasts. 63 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:40.919 Okay over, Hello, and welcome to this episode of the 64 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:44.919 Superhero Ethics podcast. Today we're discussing the movie Thunderbolts. We're 65 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:48.240 discussing the new Avengers. We're discussing what does it mean 66 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:51.400 when you're supervillain just needs a big hug? And how 67 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.319 is mental illness portrayed in Thunderbolts and a lot of 68 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:58.080 other superhero media. I'm doing that with myself Riki Hayashi 69 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:01.599 and returning regular guests Jessica Plumber. Jessica, how are you 70 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:02.080 doing tonight? 71 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.960 I'm doing good. How are you doing pretty well? 72 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:09.439 Pretty well? We are two months out till baby arrives, 73 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:12.599 so you know, our young Padawan, our young hero coming soon. 74 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:16.800 So we're in the midst of crib making and basically 75 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:19.479 all the IKEA projects from Hell, except they're much smaller 76 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:23.039 because they're for a baby. And I do want to 77 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:25.919 say a quick word on that, which is that I'm 78 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:28.960 really excited to keep I'm really excited to keep bringing 79 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:31.719 you episodes of both this and the Star Wars podcast. 80 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:34.280 There's actually a third podcast that's gonna be starting soon 81 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:37.759 focused on the idea of parenting with myself and to 82 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:41.280 veteran parents Mandy Caplan and Pete Wright, both of the 83 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:44.120 True Story family of podcasts. But I am going to 84 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:45.879 be taking a hiatus for a while because there's a 85 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:47.319 lot to do to get ready. There's a lot of 86 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:48.759 cooking we want to do, there's a lot of getting 87 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:51.680 the house ready we want to do, and it's just 88 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:53.479 a lot to try and take on while also trying 89 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:56.479 to not only record an episode a week, most episodes 90 00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:58.080 a week, but also edit them and all that kind 91 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.639 of stuff. So this will probably be the last episode 92 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:03.080 we put out for a while. The hiatus is going 93 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:06.199 to be through June and July, possibly into August. Baby 94 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:08.560 comes middle to late July and we will kind of 95 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.800 see where things are. But by August or if nothing else. September, 96 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:14.680 we will return hit the ground running, So please stay subscribed, 97 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:17.040 please stay liked, and all that, and of course please 98 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:19.480 sending us feedback on stuff that comes out over the 99 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:22.160 summer that you want us to talk about. If nothing else, 100 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:26.720 there's a movie about some fantastic people. Is it three people? 101 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:28.360 Is it five people? 102 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.439 That's a fantastic four. 103 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:33.879 Four people, four people. So I'm sure we're gonna do 104 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:35.839 that again and probably get Jessica back for that. But 105 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:39.519 today we are talking about Thunderbolts, And just to make 106 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:39.800 sure you. 107 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:44.439 Feel officially sorry that it's Thunderbolts asterisk thunderbolts. 108 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:47.319 Yeah, how do you pronounce that? Thunderbolt set? 109 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:52.279 Because asterix the name has changed, and we're gonna be 110 00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:54.319 spoiling some things from the movie to be clear. But 111 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:57.120 also if you haven't seen the movie, don't worry. Neither 112 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:00.160 has Riki Hakashi, because we're not. This isn't gonna be 113 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:02.040 a review of the movie, as much as there's going 114 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:04.879 to be a discussion of some of the topics that 115 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:08.600 the movie raises. It has a lot to say about 116 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:11.079 mental health, it has a lot to say about the 117 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:13.040 nature of who is a hero and who gets to 118 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:16.319 choose who is a hero. And that's kind of really 119 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:18.759 the depth of the things we're going to talk about, because, 120 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:21.519 as I've mentioned in the past, I think that there 121 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:26.120 are sometimes where superhero media can engage with mental illness 122 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:28.040 and do it very well and sometimes when it does 123 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.879 it very badly. And so, Jessica, I'm just gonna start 124 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:34.959 by asking you, my first thought walking out of the 125 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:37.759 movie was, did they really just tell me that a 126 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:40.839 sad white boy loner who is so emo that he's 127 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:44.000 hurting everyone around him just needed the pretty girl to 128 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:45.439 hug him and it would make him okay? 129 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.639 Yes? And the question is I mean. 130 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:54.759 Is that if I described that to you, I feel 131 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.120 like you would normally find that fairly problematic. But I 132 00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:58.800 know you really like this movie, and so I want 133 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:01.800 to kind of hear more about help me reframe that 134 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:03.800 aspect of the movie in a way that doesn't make 135 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:08.600 it seem quite So let's fix the poor male loneliness 136 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.120 epidemic by ignoring how much hurt they're causing and just 137 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:12.279 giving them a big hug. 138 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:16.319 Yeah. So I did not see the movie that way 139 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:19.360 at all, Like that really, And you know when you said, 140 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:22.199 because I knew before I went to see the movie. 141 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:23.839 You saw it first and you told me you were 142 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:26.480 on the fence about it, and I came out of 143 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:30.360 it and I was like, what didn't Matthew like? And 144 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:34.040 I thought it might have to do with that, So 145 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:36.720 I see where you're coming from. But that was not 146 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:41.040 my interpretation of it at all, and I think for 147 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:47.759 two really crucial reasons. One is that the main character 148 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:51.360 of this movie is Yolena. Like it is, it's an 149 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:55.319 ensemble film, but she is the protagonist. It is her story, 150 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.759 it is her journey. It is her mental health that 151 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:03.240 is being explored word the most thoroughly. Literally, the opening 152 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:08.160 scene is her monologuing about how depressed she is. And 153 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:13.560 if it were if it were Bob's story, then yes, 154 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.040 I think I would agree with your reading of it. 155 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:23.120 But it's not. He is a supporting character who functions 156 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:28.639 to illuminate her story. The other thing that I think 157 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.720 really saves it is that their relationship is not romantic. 158 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.839 There is no romantic dynamic between them. I'm sure some 159 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:36.680 people came out of it and wanted them to kiss, 160 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:39.160 but I don't think that was the intent of the filmmakers, 161 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:41.399 and it wasn't the read that I got if it 162 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:44.600 was a romantic dynamic again, I would be like, that 163 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:49.040 was kind of gross. But my takeaway from the movie 164 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:53.319 was not, oh, this poor sad white man who hurts 165 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:56.360 everyone around him just needs somebody to hug him and 166 00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:59.199 tell him he's never done anything wrong ever in his life, 167 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:03.319 but that we need each other, we need community, we 168 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:08.560 need connection, and if we are depressed, we need to 169 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:12.480 turn to the people in our lives and ask for help. 170 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:16.399 Because Bob is not the only one who needs that. 171 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.800 Every single character in the movie needs that. And I 172 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:22.920 have specific scenes if you want me to go through them. 173 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:25.120 For sure, for sure, And I think that does help 174 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:26.879 reframe it somewhat, and I think kind of gives a 175 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:28.959 good I say that kind of humorously because I've heard 176 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:31.360 some of this from Jessica before, but it is something 177 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:33.600 I'm a little wrestling with. But Jessica's got me somewhat 178 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:36.159 more onto this understanding. But let's step back a bit 179 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:38.440 and kind of set the frame of this. So and 180 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:40.080 I'm going to give kind of a summary of the 181 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:43.279 movie up to these kind of crucial points without going 182 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:47.360 to too much detail. So, as you said, we start 183 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:51.000 with Yolena, the character who was really introduced to us 184 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:54.600 in the Black Widow movie as Natasha's sister, and who 185 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:58.080 also really came into her own in the Hawkeye series, 186 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:01.320 a series that is not great, but introduced two of 187 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:04.879 my favorite female characters right now. Her an Echo, which 188 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:05.919 I think is really awesome. 189 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:09.360 No love for Kate Bishop. 190 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:13.559 I think Kate Bishop's fine. I think Kate Bishop is 191 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:16.840 a character I've seen a bunch of times before and 192 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:19.320 that we also haven't really seen much from since then. 193 00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:24.519 But but anyway, like Elena is depressed, she's working as 194 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:28.759 an assassin on behalf of the Countess. What what is 195 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:29.840 her actual name? 196 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:32.600 Just call her vow she has, Yeah. 197 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:37.840 We're gonna call her she. She's played by Julia Luis Dreyfuss, 198 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:40.440 also known as Vip, also known as Elaine from Seinfeld, 199 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:42.600 also known as the woman who dances really badly in 200 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:44.559 a really funny way in a great episode of that 201 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:47.399 show that is really horrible actually a show, but anyway, 202 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:49.759 we're gonna but has some great moments. Uh, And I 203 00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:51.840 say that as a New York Jew. There's a lot 204 00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:56.480 of complications around that show. Anyway, moving on, and she's 205 00:09:56.480 --> 00:09:58.320 doing these tasks and she's not really thinking about the 206 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:00.120 morality of them. She's kind of thinking about how how 207 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:02.799 she shouldn't be thinking about that she wants to kind 208 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:05.360 of lose herself, and that she doesn't really feel any 209 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:07.639 purpose because she doesn't feel like she's making the world better. 210 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:09.639 She just feels like she's doing these things in half 211 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:14.399 of someone else. And we interspersed that with people are 212 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:19.120 starting to do congressional hearings about what Val is up to, 213 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:22.440 including a new congressman from a guest New York because 214 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.720 that's where I think he's from Brooklyn. 215 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.440 They specifically say the freshman congressman from Brooklyn, And can 216 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:30.440 I just say, as somebody who hasn't seen an MCU 217 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:33.159 movie in a while, I felt like I had been 218 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:36.039 in a coma for several years. I was like, Bucky 219 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:38.919 is in Congress. Well, I felt like I had been snapped, 220 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:44.120 Like I was like, what is happened? It was, I can't. 221 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:47.720 I had a similar feeling. I've seen some of the 222 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:49.440 recent MCU stuff, I've not seen all of it. I 223 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:53.399 had a similar feeling. But anyway, so it turns out 224 00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:55.600 that all the other people who are part of the 225 00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:59.240 what we become the Thunderbolts have all been working for Val. 226 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:03.600 They are all to this secret hideout place that she 227 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:06.720 keeps somewhere in the American desert. I guess in the Southwest. 228 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:11.200 I'm not really sure, but it's supposed to incinerate ridiculous action, 229 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:13.720 high jinks and can the group work together? Yes, the 230 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.759 group can work together and they all survive, but they're 231 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:21.919 all now being hunted by Thou and okay, no they 232 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:26.200 don't all survive. That is correct. One. Uh, we saw 233 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:29.120 the movie here. I saw a couple of weeks ago, 234 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:33.200 and I didn't have the best experience seeing it. One 235 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:35.120 of them task Master, who I guess is the character 236 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:37.200 they never really figured out what to do with just 237 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:39.039 flat up dies which. 238 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:41.320 Changed with the story, Like she was supposed to have 239 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.000 a larger part and they changed it. 240 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:46.679 Yeah, I figured it was a fake out, like they 241 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:48.440 wanted us to think she was gonna have a bigger 242 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.000 part and then they're like just kidding. 243 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:54.559 I think in the original script, and I believe that 244 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:57.519 they filmed some of this, there was supposed to be 245 00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.879 more of like a friendship between task Master and Go 246 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:04.440 because they share like similar backgrounds of being used by 247 00:12:04.519 --> 00:12:07.399 a government agency, and so that was supposed to be 248 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.039 like their connection, and they decided to change it up 249 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:14.240 and have there be an early death of consequence, and 250 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:16.480 it ended up being her and it's unfortunate, but. 251 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:19.840 Okay, uh yeah, I kind of wish we'd had something 252 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:21.519 more from her, but it, you know, I guess it 253 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:25.639 sets look their are stakes. Yeah, So they all escape 254 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.039 and they wind up finding this guy named Bob along 255 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:31.320 the way, who doesn't really know what's going on with him, 256 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:37.159 but he has some powers maybe possibly, and really all 257 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:39.360 that Vou wants is to get her hands back on 258 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:42.039 him because he apparently is the secret project that she's 259 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:45.000 been working on. Lots of other people have died being 260 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:49.000 attempting to make what they have made in Bob. And 261 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:53.679 we get to a situation where Bob feels like he's 262 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:56.320 been abandoned by the group and Vow is the one 263 00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:58.600 person who can talk to him, and she kind of 264 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:02.679 convinces him to become this hero that she describes as 265 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.240 a century, which I've now come to understand is s 266 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:10.480 e n T s e n t r e Y 267 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.879 or heavy for a century. I thought it was mister 268 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:17.960 century century think they were hitting. 269 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:20.559 I think it was a fake out because I thought 270 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.480 they were saying Century like one hundred years every time 271 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:27.759 they mentioned the project, because they talk about the Century 272 00:13:27.799 --> 00:13:32.120 project a lot during the movie, well before Bob is like, 273 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:35.720 you know, puts on the Century costume and is revealed 274 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:37.639 to be Century, and they don't give us his last 275 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.279 name or anything for a really long time. So I'm 276 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:42.799 like vaguely familiar with the character from the comics, but 277 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:46.799 it took me, I think, until he not quite put 278 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:49.240 on the costume but pretty close to that for me 279 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:52.600 to be like, oh, they're saying Century. So I do 280 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:57.159 think that they were buttsing it in their playing a 281 00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:59.120 little bit. I think they might have been doing that 282 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:02.639 on purpose, Okay, or I just can't hear, which is 283 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:04.080 also a true statement. 284 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.279 Well, so let's talk about who is this character in 285 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:10.279 the comics, because he is similar, but I think fairly 286 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:13.600 distinct in ways that, particularly from mental illness perspectives, are 287 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.200 very important to name. So who is he? Who is 288 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.320 Century slash emo boy who I think is actually supposed 289 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:22.399 to be He has a character the name of the Void. 290 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:23.519 Who is he in the comics? 291 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:27.320 Okay? 292 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:32.200 Yeah, I mean Century is basically a Marvel superman, which 293 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:34.480 you know, there are dozens of Superman and all of 294 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:37.000 the comics now, but he's got the flight, he's got 295 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.039 the in vulnerability. I believe originally it's not supposed to 296 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:45.039 be a super super serum, which is what they used 297 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:47.000 in the movie right to give him his powers, like 298 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:50.639 it's a government super soldier program. I think it's supposed 299 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:53.559 to be magic. But that's that's something that's not important, 300 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:55.960 and they've probably changed the multiple times. The important thing 301 00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:00.759 is that in the comics, originally he suffers from a 302 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:07.720 disassociated personality. It's disorder, so like Century and Void are 303 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.679 different aspects of his personality. I do believe that like 304 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:16.919 at times, they do have strong relationships to his depression, 305 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.519 bringing some of this aspect out. And when he was 306 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:25.440 introduced in the Marvel comics, it was actually originally like 307 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:29.519 a story similar to Spider Man No Way Home, the 308 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:32.600 most recent one, and I think that's why they didn't 309 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.759 go with that story because it was too similar, where 310 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:42.000 they the Illuminati, Doctor Strange, iron Man, et cetera, used 311 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:46.799 like a Doctor Strange spell to make the world forget 312 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:51.000 about Century and the Void, and as a consequence, like 313 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:55.080 Bob Reynolds also forgets and he has these dreams, these 314 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:57.559 vivid dreams where he's like, I had a dream that 315 00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:59.159 I was flying, I had a dream that I was 316 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:02.879 a hero. Right, Well, they're memories that are actually manifesting, 317 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:06.039 and so like, there's this journey of him rediscovering himself 318 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:10.399 as century and then unfortunately rediscovering the Void. 319 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:13.879 And I can see why that would get really confusing, 320 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.480 especially not only because of Spider Man No Way Home, 321 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:20.159 but also that sounds remarkedly similar to some of the 322 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.600 ideas explored in Moonnight, which is another character who has 323 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:27.480 disassociative identity disorder, which, for those who are not aware, 324 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.919 is what is what was once known as multiple personality disorder. 325 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:34.120 We have a better understanding of it now scientifically, I 326 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:36.720 think that change happened about ten years ago. But just 327 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:40.960 for anyone who's not quite quite understanding that we're talking about, 328 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:42.720 you know. And there again we have a character who 329 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:45.639 has that and is having dreams about things that his 330 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.279 other personalities have done at some point in time, or 331 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:51.159 that that he has done another point in time. 332 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:55.799 Yeah, and there again, like comics are always changing things, 333 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.639 reccon now, it's not's that. And there was also a 334 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:02.080 period of time where the Void was like a demonic 335 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:03.840 entity that possessed him. 336 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:08.000 Right, And in this I think it's much more that 337 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:10.759 he becomes kind of what I described as emo Doctor 338 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:13.480 Manhattan in that he has like all the kind of 339 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:16.000 that kind of like power that missed that Doctor Manhattan 340 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.720 has from The Watchman to just kind of like snap 341 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:23.880 people out of existence, not uh, like you know, Thanos snap, 342 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:25.680 but just kind of like you know, to with a thought, 343 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:31.200 they stop existing. And he is very depressed, very uh. 344 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:33.440 He he wanted to stand up to the heroes, but 345 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:35.079 he wanted them not to fight. He wanted them to 346 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:38.240 kind of recognize how great he is. And he has 347 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.720 this kind of like super happy like everything is great. 348 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:43.720 And then when they fight him and he realizes that 349 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.359 not only are they against him, but also that Val 350 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:49.160 was using him and lying to him, he has what 351 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:50.839 I think a lot of us can recognize as a 352 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:55.240 depressive crash. And the words are never spoken, but I 353 00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:57.920 think this is and Jessica, let me know where you 354 00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.960 would put it. I mean, I'm not a training therapist. 355 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:01.839 I don't think you are either, but it feels like 356 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:05.640 it is much more evocative in this of bipolar, manic, 357 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:09.319 depressive things like that or cerly at least deep depression 358 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:11.480 than it is d id. 359 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:17.039 Yeah, I mean, I certainly have no medical or therapeutic 360 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:24.839 qualifications whatsoever. What I will say is that depression is 361 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:30.359 a something that pretty much every main character in this 362 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:35.359 movie is shown to have in common, Yolena, Bob Walker. 363 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:39.799 I think you can definitely argue that Alexi and Bucky 364 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:43.920 are shown like there's definitely a moment of Bucky like 365 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:49.240 standing in his kitchen, just like not processing being in 366 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:53.279 the world, the only one, the only nature character. I 367 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:56.359 would say, we don't necessarily see it for as ghosts, 368 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:01.440 but it's an easy extrapolation to make. But with most 369 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.519 of those characters, I would say, Okay, what they've got 370 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:06.200 going on is depression, and with I mean some of 371 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.319 them also we know have PTSD, but they're managing it. 372 00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:12.359 Like Bucky probably has more than just depression going on, 373 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:19.680 but Bob clearly has additional mental health struggles, including, like 374 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:25.400 explicitly stated in the movie, problems with addiction on top 375 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:27.559 of the depression. That is sort of the baseline for 376 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:29.440 every character in this film. 377 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:30.039 Right. 378 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.759 You say they all have depression, but they also have 379 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:39.200 like depression is just not a one size fits all 380 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.880 They have differing degrees of how they are coping with 381 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.000 it and how they are managing it, right, like different 382 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:46.440 levels of functionality. 383 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:50.039 Absolutely, and like I would say, like for example, like 384 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:54.039 I mentioned, like Bucky is masking really really well, And 385 00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:58.039 I think you can definitely draw a narrative of like 386 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.640 Bucky is doing what he's supposed to do and he's 387 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:03.279 being a normal person and he's you know, doing good 388 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:08.400 without violence. He's in Congress now, and like that moment 389 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:10.160 when he just like throws it all away to go, 390 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:17.119 you know, do insane things on a motorcycle, like kind 391 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:20.839 of reveals how much he has been masking who he 392 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:27.200 really is. Where Alexi is also masking, but much more poorly. 393 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:32.599 Like his his show of everything is great and I'm 394 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:37.279 fine is much more transparent. Elene is not bothering Walker 395 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.119 is awesome. I think it's it's actually really interesting that 396 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.319 all of the men are masking and only Elaine is 397 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:44.720 like this is it? This is how I feel? 398 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.119 Right? No, I think it's very true. And I think 399 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:52.000 you know, alexis shown not quite as what could possibly 400 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:54.720 be addiction, but I think he is better understood is 401 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:58.000