Speaker 1: We're Tarmy Lorenzo, and this is the Bitter Kitten Movie Club. Hello,
Speaker 1: Kitten's welcome back to another edition of the b k MC,
Speaker 1: a supplemental edition of the PSO where we take a
Speaker 1: look at one film per week and dissected and Lorenzo
Speaker 1: is laughing his ass off, but we're not cutting.
Speaker 2: It takes like five times.
Speaker 1: This is like the fifth time I've had the Actually
Speaker 1: it's literally only the second time.
Speaker 2: Anyway, Are we done?
Speaker 1: Feel better? Okay? Nothing but a lamp riot here at
Speaker 1: the b k MC. Okay, so it's.
Speaker 2: A lot of btr TC over that's white anyway.
Speaker 1: So this week's film is nineteen ninety five's To Die
Speaker 1: For by director Gus Vnsant, starring Nicole Kidman, Matt Dillon,
Speaker 1: Joaquin Phoenix, and a bunch of other nineties.
Speaker 2: Faces Ileana Douglas, Aleanna Douglas, Allison with a Nhim Follin
Speaker 2: or something like that.
Speaker 1: Anyway, she dropped out. She's not an actress anymore anyway.
Speaker 1: So we take a look at a film every week
Speaker 1: and just try and dissect it and talk about it
Speaker 1: and you know, and figure it out. This week's film,
Speaker 1: like I said, is to dive for and as always
Speaker 1: with the BKMC, there's a short podcast about the film
Speaker 1: that gets attached to a much longer essay about the
Speaker 1: film that will be posted on our say tom on
Speaker 1: Lorenzo dot com. So you hadn't seen the movie, yes,
Speaker 1: I want to start off. I want to toss to
Speaker 1: you because we have very different experiences of this film.
Speaker 1: I admitted last week I think I had never seen
Speaker 1: this film. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I
Speaker 1: wasn't avoiding this film, but for some reason it slipped
Speaker 1: through the cracks and I never did see it. It's
Speaker 1: one of those films that's so much a part of
Speaker 1: the culture that you almost feel like you have seen
Speaker 1: it if you even if you haven't. And so I
Speaker 1: finally sat down this week to watch it after you know,
Speaker 1: thirty one years, and I have some observations shout there
Speaker 1: were certain aspects of it. I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: did not expect this to be that. But I want
Speaker 1: you to go first, because you have a long history
Speaker 1: with the film.
Speaker 2: Well, I when I was a little boy, a homosexual boy,
Speaker 2: I used to get I used to get together with
Speaker 2: my homosexual friends and watch movies and gush.
Speaker 3: Oh, we're not a little boy. When this movie came out.
Speaker 2: Well, well, anyway, my point is that when I was young, my.
Speaker 1: Friend even that young, all right, you should be determined
Speaker 1: to make it sound like you were fourteen years old them.
Speaker 2: And anyway, well, okay, when whenever I used to get
Speaker 2: together with my friend and watch movies, you know, and
Speaker 2: usually you know, all my gay friends who watch movies
Speaker 2: about people, you know, people like Nicole Kidman and you know,
Speaker 2: these great actresses that anyway, so I remember watching with
Speaker 2: my friends when we loved it because she was so
Speaker 2: bitchy and determined and evil and all that. So we
Speaker 2: love the movie back then. And then I watch it again,
Speaker 2: and then I watch it now for the for this,
Speaker 2: and I still love it. I think, first of all,
Speaker 2: I can't get over how gorgeous she looks because she's
Speaker 2: so young, I know, and they and it's such a
Speaker 2: great cast because that's exactly what they needed for the character,
Speaker 2: someone blonde and and you know, just blue eyed and
Speaker 2: and you know, very American looking and all that. So yeah,
Speaker 2: she's perfect for that. Although she's Australian, but anyway, it's
Speaker 2: just perfect. She's perfect for that. And I'm surprised. That
Speaker 2: not surprised, but I was pleased that she did such
Speaker 2: a great job, you know, in the beginning of her career.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 1: I mean, she was already married to Tom Cruise at
Speaker 1: that point and they had she had had several big films,
Speaker 1: but I think this was her first major solo. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I do think. I always think of it, and
Speaker 1: I think in retrospect it's largely true that this is
Speaker 1: kind of the film that put her on the map.
Speaker 1: I mean, she was a movie star prior to this.
Speaker 1: I think she had done Far and Away with Tom
Speaker 1: Cruise at that point, but this was the film that
Speaker 1: made people realize that she's an actor. Like she can ask,
Speaker 1: she can do a good job. Okay, so my observations
Speaker 1: going into this number one, Now, these are gonna be observations.
Speaker 1: They're not criticisms, right, They're just I had an expectation
Speaker 1: going into it, and then I and I was and
Speaker 1: I'm only saying this. I wouldn't approach every film this way.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't approach a new film this way. But like
Speaker 1: I said, this film has over three decades of you know,
Speaker 1: history behind it. It's kind of an iconic part of
Speaker 1: nineties culture, in nineties cinematic cultures, So a film like
Speaker 1: that builds up a sort of mythology around it or
Speaker 1: a sort of vibe around it. And when I actually
Speaker 1: watched the film, it was very interesting to me to
Speaker 1: unpack how it did not it. I don't want to
Speaker 1: say it did not meet my expectations because that makes
Speaker 1: it sound like I was disappointed, but it did certain
Speaker 1: things that I was I didn't expect. Number one, I
Speaker 1: didn't realize like I thought her character was had a career.
Speaker 1: Like you see all the clips and everything, and you
Speaker 1: think she's some newswoman and everything, and then you watch
Speaker 1: the movie and it's like, oh no, she's not. She's
Speaker 1: not she's not what you know, what you thought she was.
Speaker 1: And that gets to my point about the film being
Speaker 1: quite a bit darker than I thought it was going
Speaker 1: to be and when and I mean, it's about a murder,
Speaker 1: so obviously it's going to be a black comedy. It's
Speaker 1: me and I don't mean that as a criticism, but
Speaker 1: it is a mean spirited movie. It takes a dim
Speaker 1: view of literally everybody in the movie. There's nobody you know,
Speaker 1: and I don't mean like, Oh, there's nobody likable in
Speaker 1: this story. It's just like I was surprised that she's dumb,
Speaker 1: Like Nicole Kidman's character is actually dumb.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's That's great about her character is
Speaker 2: that she's very driven, you.
Speaker 3: Know, like, but she's not smart.
Speaker 2: She's not mark when she's in Florida, for example, you
Speaker 2: know that scene that she doesn't.
Speaker 1: Get she doesn't get what yeah, what the guy say?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: The felloped it.
Speaker 1: In like ten seconds because none of it was planned
Speaker 1: out or anything.
Speaker 2: But I do like that. I do like and I
Speaker 2: think the movie makes fun of everybody, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's what I mean about it being
Speaker 1: mean spirited, literally everybody. I thought it was mean about
Speaker 1: those teenagers, but I think a movie made. One of
Speaker 1: the things I want to unpack today is is what
Speaker 1: if this movie was made today?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: And I think.
Speaker 1: I think a movie in twenty twenty six dealing with
Speaker 1: the same same topic, I think would take a more
Speaker 1: sympathetic view of those teenagers. I don't think the film
Speaker 1: is unsympathetic to them, because it's very clear that these kids.
Speaker 3: Have no chance.
Speaker 2: But that's that's the movies very much of its time. Like,
Speaker 2: you know, when we used to make fun of high school.
Speaker 2: There were a ton of movies about it, this make
Speaker 2: You Free column by Yeah, yeah, I know. So it's
Speaker 2: it wasn't going to unpack that sort of thing. And
Speaker 2: also the whole Italian thing, you know, like and it's
Speaker 2: small mind, it's small town. You have a restaurant, and
Speaker 2: you happy with your life. That's all you want. You
Speaker 2: want as opposed to her wanting to be you know,
Speaker 2: like this big, big.
Speaker 1: Tele thing about the Italian stuff. Early in the film
Speaker 1: there were references made to the Mafia, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's kind of sloppy, you know, like you wouldn't make
Speaker 1: that kind of joke. But it turns out there with
Speaker 1: an actual there was an actual tie to the Mafia
Speaker 1: near the end of the film. I mean, so, yes,
Speaker 1: the film is a lot more mean spirited than I
Speaker 1: then I originally assumed going into it. I really thought,
Speaker 1: here's what like Suzanne Stone her character. I kept thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, she exists on this continuum of like cher
Speaker 1: Horowitz and Clueless and Elle Woods illegally blonde, and even
Speaker 1: like Tracy Flick in Election where it's the nineties era
Speaker 1: or roughly turn of the century post feminist, you know,
Speaker 1: Susan Faludi's backlash, where it's like all of these super
Speaker 1: girly characters that were somewhat threatening in certain ways, even clueless.
Speaker 1: You know, she's like socially threatening. R el Woods, even
Speaker 1: though she's a heroine, she is threatening to a natural order.
Speaker 1: Tracy Flick, same thing. Now, Suzanne's stone is on a
Speaker 1: different level because she's an actual murder.
Speaker 3: Well she's not a murder.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I guess she is a murderer, but esthetically
Speaker 1: she fits like she's right between cher Horowitz and l
Speaker 1: Woods in terms of style, in terms of how she
Speaker 1: was dressed, in terms of the entire esthetic, and even
Speaker 1: I think Nicole Kimmens's performance, which actually does predate clueless
Speaker 1: and legally blonde. So I don't I can't say that
Speaker 1: she influenced those performances, but you can see them. You
Speaker 1: can just see them in her sort of wide eyed,
Speaker 1: perky sort of sociopathy and the and in the outfits,
Speaker 1: the the little pink suits and the polka dots and
Speaker 1: all of the pastels that she wears. So, like I said,
Speaker 1: I what makes her different from those characters is that
Speaker 1: she's dumb, none of those other like those other blonde
Speaker 1: post feminist characters were all very very smart, but she's
Speaker 1: actually dumb, which again I think is of its time,
Speaker 1: because I think the assumption is, you know, pre l Woods,
Speaker 1: that a character like that would have to be dumb.
Speaker 1: There you didn't have a cinematic example of a smart, devious, girly,
Speaker 1: pastel wearing blonde. So I thought that part was interesting.
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting that the kids were that
Speaker 1: the script is so mean to those kids. And I
Speaker 1: this is not a criticism, but I think if this
Speaker 1: film was made in twenty twenty six, it have way
Speaker 1: more of a gay sensibility to it. Gus Vansayan is
Speaker 1: a gay director, and it's not that his gayness doesn't
Speaker 1: inform his aesthetic or his work. There is camp in
Speaker 1: his work, and there's clearly camp in this film, but
Speaker 1: it is such a subdued nineties form of camp, whereas
Speaker 1: I feel like if someone were to make this film
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six, it would be all glitter and
Speaker 1: drag queens, which would not be an improvement. And then
Speaker 1: the other thing is I did think it was there's
Speaker 1: like no queer people in the movie at all, and
Speaker 1: that's just a consequence of it being made in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety five, and there's no need to be queer people
Speaker 1: in the story. However, the teenage girl, there's some implication.
Speaker 2: That she's a lesbian.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and then the sister.
Speaker 1: The sister has this female friend who's in the background,
Speaker 1: and it's a very nineties way of alluding to queerness
Speaker 1: without actually and I wonder if modern audiences would even
Speaker 1: catch those references. But in nineteen ninety five, gay people
Speaker 1: would look at that and go, oh, his sister's a lesbian, right,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: I remember at the time when I saw the movie,
Speaker 2: what everyone talked about was like how fabulous she was,
Speaker 2: Nicole Kidman, and how the character, how fabulous the character was,
Speaker 2: and how mean she was, how bitch that she was,
Speaker 2: and everybody loved it. Oh yeah, of course she's losse
Speaker 2: incredible and she's mean to everybody, so of course everybody's
Speaker 2: gonna like that. Car. I think it's interesting. I think
Speaker 2: there's so many elements. I think the movie is very
Speaker 2: witty too. I mean, there's like the drops things here
Speaker 2: and there, Like the beginning of the movie, for example,
Speaker 2: when you have all the news about what happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the opening montage, it's beautiful. It's really really well done.
Speaker 1: I mean it really forces you to sit there and
Speaker 1: pay attention to the credits.
Speaker 2: And when they talk about now you need to see
Speaker 2: the whole picture, and they kind of pixelate everything and
Speaker 2: then to the point that it's just one big circle.
Speaker 2: And she wears a lot of polka dots. So I
Speaker 2: think that's interesting that her costumes had polka dot and
Speaker 2: you know, they emphasize the fact that sometimes you two
Speaker 2: in into it, right, that you don't see the big picture.
Speaker 1: I do think the polka dots were an interesting costume
Speaker 1: design motile, right, And I think you're right. I think
Speaker 1: that does refer to the pixelated pictures because I think, again,
Speaker 1: if this film we're made today, she'd be in sequence,
Speaker 1: she'd be in outrageous florals, and she'd almost certainly be
Speaker 1: in designer clothes, even though that character cannot afford designer clothes.
Speaker 1: And I did think the costume designer made a really
Speaker 1: interesting choice that was very nineties, which is that she's
Speaker 1: clearly wearing.
Speaker 3: Off the rack clothes.
Speaker 1: They're cheap looking, the fabrics don't look expensive, and things
Speaker 1: don't actually fit her that well, like some of those
Speaker 1: jackets don't actually fit her that well. Now that's all deliberate,
Speaker 1: like it's not. Of course, if a character's wearing a
Speaker 1: poorly fitted outfit, it's not because someone failed at their job.
Speaker 1: It's because they're trying to say something about them. And
Speaker 1: I think it again, if this movie were made in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, a costume designer would be sourcing all
Speaker 1: of these Chanel pieces and there would be like some oh,
Speaker 1: she got it on the real reel or something to
Speaker 1: sort of explain it.
Speaker 2: But I do like that she wears these fail thing Yeah,
Speaker 2: these eye popping looks.
Speaker 1: That, to be quite honest, not to you know, toot
Speaker 1: our horn. But not everyone's going to notice that those
Speaker 1: are actually cheap clothes. And that's a subtle bit of
Speaker 1: work on the part of the costume designer, whose name
Speaker 1: I don't have in front of me, but she will
Speaker 1: actually be mentioned in the post. I did look her up.
Speaker 1: All right, I want to unpack a few other nineties isms.
Speaker 1: But why don't we take a short break and come back, Yes,
Speaker 1: all right, we'll be right back. We're back, and we're
Speaker 1: talking about nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 3: Is to die for.
Speaker 1: And I want to get into some of the other
Speaker 1: cast members. But before we do that, I did want
Speaker 1: to unpack another bit of history or an example of
Speaker 1: how the film is very much of its time but
Speaker 1: at the same time very very forward looking. One thing
Speaker 1: that I was struck by in the film. Again, this
Speaker 1: goes to what did I think this film was about?
Speaker 1: And then you watch it and you're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: that's not quite what I thought it was about. Like
Speaker 1: I really thought it was about tabloid television. I thought,
Speaker 1: like this story exploded on the news, but it's actually
Speaker 1: a very small story that actually basically goes nowhere. It
Speaker 1: never goes outside of its hometown. I know there's a
Speaker 1: lot of newsy stuff at the beginning of it, but
Speaker 1: I think no.
Speaker 2: Towards the end of the movie, the Lydia, the character,
Speaker 2: she gets invited to all these TV show that's.
Speaker 1: Right, that's right, you're right, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2: I hope I get some of the some diet tips.
Speaker 1: From the right now it does. I guess I thought
Speaker 1: it was going to be on camera, like all the
Speaker 1: tabloid stuff happens outside of the story, and I thought
Speaker 1: it was literally a movie about the tabloid stuff, so
Speaker 1: that was a little surprising to me, and I kept, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, there were scenes in her living room, in
Speaker 1: you know, her and Matt Dyllan's living room, and in
Speaker 1: their parents' various living rooms, and in the bar actually,
Speaker 1: where people are turning on the TV because of course
Speaker 1: the story's got yeah and it's those big boxing nineties TVs.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh wow, this really was a long
Speaker 1: time ago. And I'm pointing that out because her whole arc,
Speaker 1: her whole philosophy, Suzanne is like, you're nobody in America
Speaker 1: unless you're on TV, and that is not true anymore.
Speaker 1: That is because TV is a dying I mean, thirty
Speaker 1: one years later, TV is pretty much dying as and
Speaker 1: if you want to be famous, you just look into
Speaker 1: your phone and start shooting yourself.
Speaker 2: But she's still right.
Speaker 3: I mean, oh no, she predicted it. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2: The whole line is Lydia character says. It's then used
Speaker 2: to say that you're not really anybody in America unless
Speaker 2: you're on TV, because what's the point of doing anything
Speaker 2: worthwhile if there's nobody watching it.
Speaker 1: Now, that's social that's social media today.
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember watching it again, it was like, Wow,
Speaker 2: that's social media now.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, that's what's crazy about that line
Speaker 1: is there was no way to predict social media in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five. So it wasn't someone, it wasn't the
Speaker 1: screenwriter Buck Henry being forward thinking. It's just I guess
Speaker 1: what you're looking at is the last gaps of twentieth
Speaker 1: century fame seeking and how it evolved before it evolved
Speaker 1: into what it became in the twenty first century. So
Speaker 1: it really the film serves as like a document of
Speaker 1: a time period and a lifestyle. No one's pursuing this
Speaker 1: life anymore. People are pursuing fame, but not like not
Speaker 1: by being a local weather girl. No one thinks of
Speaker 1: doing it that way anymore.
Speaker 2: No, it's very specific of the time that if you
Speaker 2: wanted to be Suzanne famous, like Suzanne wanted, you would
Speaker 2: have to do movie TV, right, You have to be
Speaker 2: on your TV or a movie theater.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Today, all you need to do is have a phone
Speaker 2: and in a social account, social media account, and then
Speaker 2: you're famous.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, am I wrong?
Speaker 1: I mean god, Suzan Stone would have loved the Ring Light.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you, I imagine her now so yeah,
Speaker 2: it should.
Speaker 3: Be an influencer.
Speaker 1: Now she'd be like a like a right wing influencer.
Speaker 1: How much you want to bet?
Speaker 2: And then it's interesting because the line, I mean, the
Speaker 2: quote continues and she says, so when people are watching,
Speaker 2: it makes you a better person, and that is so
Speaker 2: my god.
Speaker 3: I mean, that does predict social media right right there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do want to point out Buck Henry is
Speaker 1: the screenwriter. He also plays the high school teacher, and
Speaker 1: you know, he's the screenwriter of the legendary the graduate.
Speaker 1: He's he's a writer of long standing and he's very,
Speaker 1: very witty. He writes great screenplays, this one included. But
Speaker 1: I did sit there thinking as I was watching, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, so this is a lot wittier than
Speaker 1: it's witty. It has a whit to it. And again
Speaker 1: not a criticism, but you know a couple of times
Speaker 1: the teenagers would say something that was just a little
Speaker 1: too witty for those characters to say. And again that's
Speaker 1: the film. That's that's the style of film where you're
Speaker 1: it's all poor people in this rundown town. But every
Speaker 1: once in a while, some of them, one of them
Speaker 1: comes out of a line that they probably would not
Speaker 1: have come up with on their own.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I find those movies very interesting. I love
Speaker 2: movies about small towns and someone trying to get the.
Speaker 1: Hell out of trying to get that well that's your line, or.
Speaker 2: Mean famous, trying to be not that I'm famous, but anyway,
Speaker 2: I just love that because it's interesting, because it's not
Speaker 2: that there's anything wrong with the way people live, you know.
Speaker 2: In fact, I think that fame and all that it's
Speaker 2: extremely overrated. You can be happy having a small lives
Speaker 2: quote unquote small life. So I love movies about that.
Speaker 2: I like Jenni's Moretto's character, for example, because she's so
Speaker 2: cynical about the whole thing. She understands, you know, that's
Speaker 2: my life and you're an idiot. But I just love that.
Speaker 2: And Eleana Doug was just such a great job she is.
Speaker 1: I think she actually is like the movie's secret weapon, right.
Speaker 1: I think she cuts to a lot of the silliness
Speaker 1: of the movie and the bullshit of the movie.
Speaker 3: I love.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the scene of her skating at end.
Speaker 1: This is what I when I say the film doesn't
Speaker 1: have a heavy camp factor, I cannot claim that it
Speaker 1: doesn't have any camp factor. Because her ice skating and
Speaker 1: that silly pink outfit at the end is.
Speaker 2: Hilarious, and she did all the ice skating.
Speaker 3: Well, you can see it.
Speaker 1: I said that we were watching and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's all in one take. That's really her ice skating.
Speaker 2: She said. She said that when she was cast she
Speaker 2: didn't know how to ice skate, but she said she did,
Speaker 2: she knew it, and then when they pick her, she
Speaker 2: took lessons and she said she worked really hard for
Speaker 2: six months. And she said the reason why she wanted
Speaker 2: to do the scene is because the whole movie is
Speaker 2: kind of documentary style kind of movie, and there was
Speaker 2: no way they're going to just put somebody there and
Speaker 2: then back to her.
Speaker 1: I have to admit I didn't know that either. The
Speaker 1: whole right right documentary style thing, and it's sort of
Speaker 1: in a pistolary style movie work because they're not all
Speaker 1: talking to the same way. They're all talking to actually different.
Speaker 2: Camera For example, you know that she's it's the whole
Speaker 2: movie is hurt pretty much party much.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they all were talking to different camera crews
Speaker 1: for different production So I guess it does get into
Speaker 1: the tabloid TV thing. I guess what I I assumed
Speaker 1: there'd be a lot of like cable TV graphics and
Speaker 1: that sort of nineties stuff. But like I said, this
Speaker 1: movie predates. It doesn't predate the oj trial, but it was.
Speaker 1: They were shooting it during the trial.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was doing reading some behind the scenes stuff
Speaker 1: and apparently the scene of that long shot of Joaquin
Speaker 1: Phoenix in the in the interview room at the prison
Speaker 1: or whatever, he was sitting at the table and all
Speaker 1: the lights were on him and he couldn't see pass
Speaker 1: the lights to the crew, so he was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm ready, I'm ready, And it turns out nobody was
Speaker 1: there because they had all gone to another room to
Speaker 1: watch the jury verdict and he was sitting there waiting. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I do I love that this film is so much
Speaker 1: so in that mix. It's so you can't not think
Speaker 1: of the Menendez brothers or OJ or or you know,
Speaker 1: the Pamela Smart trial is that this story was based on.
Speaker 1: Although I don't really remember that trial all that much.
Speaker 2: It's just great and it's it's it's sharp, it's smart,
Speaker 2: it is it is very witty.
Speaker 1: I find it witty, and I do think if you
Speaker 1: wanted to show it to say a young person to
Speaker 1: this is what the nineties was like. Okay, just so
Speaker 1: you know, nobody had cell phones, nobody was on the computer,
Speaker 1: but this is how people pursued fame and whatever.
Speaker 2: I loved the whole local new thing.
Speaker 1: I mean it was even that's the thing I thought
Speaker 1: it was. And it's like they didn't even have that.
Speaker 1: She was just some you know, practically a volunteer and everyone.
Speaker 2: It's great way night playing the guy.
Speaker 1: The kurtwood Smith, I know, everybody's so young, just all
Speaker 1: of these like nineties nineties faces.
Speaker 3: Matt Dellon who I had.
Speaker 1: A huge crush on when I was younger, gorgeous in
Speaker 1: that phone, and he's always good at playing these sort
Speaker 1: of dumb guys, dumb gorgeous guys.
Speaker 2: Everybody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, who else?
Speaker 2: Holland Taylor. I forgot she's in a movie. Holland Taylor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in a movie. She always plays someone's wasp, that's
Speaker 3: all she's.
Speaker 2: I completely forgot she was in a movie.
Speaker 1: But yeah, just a fun little snapshot of nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: five and what we were all worried about and what
Speaker 1: we were all thinking about. I think, inadvertently a rather
Speaker 1: sharp prediction of where we were headed.
Speaker 2: Right, I agree. Like I said, I hadn't watched the
Speaker 2: movie in a long long time, so I said to
Speaker 2: watch it again. And when she talked about the whole
Speaker 2: you know, you nobody if you're not showing what you're doing, right,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, yeah, social media right there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, just a sharp good thing.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to note is that, like
Speaker 1: I said, this role I think put Nicole Kimmen on
Speaker 1: the map as an actress, and she got a lot
Speaker 1: of acclaim for it. I think she won the Golden Globe.
Speaker 2: Did she Yeah, I don't remember.
Speaker 3: I don't believe.
Speaker 1: I don't believe she was nominate bernoscar I could be
Speaker 1: wrong about that, But watching the film, I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: she's very very good in this, but she is a
Speaker 1: much better actress now.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, of course, which I guess.
Speaker 1: Does go without saying. But you can just see what
Speaker 1: thirty years of experience does for an actress. Same thing
Speaker 1: with the Joaquin Phoenix, And I will go so far
Speaker 1: as to say that I don't actually think he's all
Speaker 1: that good in a He's good in some scenes, uh huh.
Speaker 1: The scene where he breaks down crying is is he's
Speaker 1: very good. Certain other scenes he does that thing. And
Speaker 1: again he was only like nineteen years old at the time.
Speaker 1: He does that thing where if you're playing in I mean,
Speaker 1: the film doesn't really come down on either side of
Speaker 1: whether his character James is just dumb or whether he's
Speaker 1: like literally developmentally disabled. But let's go with developmentally disabled.
Speaker 1: And he plays this he does that thing that some
Speaker 1: actors do where to play a developmentally disabled person they
Speaker 1: just speak really really slow, as if they were a
Speaker 1: little drunk. Again, and that's the time that's not It
Speaker 1: just didn't have I was like, right, I'm not getting
Speaker 1: the impression that there's nothing going on in this guy's head.
Speaker 1: I'm getting the impression that you're trying to convey that
Speaker 1: there's nothing going just just to.
Speaker 2: Run a couple. She won Golden Globe Awards, a Critic
Speaker 2: Choice Awards, the New York Film Critics Circle Awards. She
Speaker 2: won a lot of things for this. Yeah. I remember
Speaker 2: at the time everyone talking about it because she did
Speaker 2: such a great job.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was big at the time for.
Speaker 1: Her and probably well, I mean probably eyes wide shut.
Speaker 1: She was the hottest she ever was, But this was
Speaker 1: probably the second hottest she ever was on film. She
Speaker 1: was really hot and it's so not ring Nicole Kidman
Speaker 1: role does play dumb women, that's I mean, she just
Speaker 1: doesn't not anymore. So to see her playing like essentially
Speaker 1: a dumb blonde was kind of funny to see. It's
Speaker 1: just unexpected.
Speaker 2: I think it's it's an intelligent, funny and waity take
Speaker 2: of television of the time. You know, driven being driven
Speaker 2: and wanted to be famous and wanted to be on
Speaker 2: TV because you know, you're you're somebody if you're on TV.
Speaker 2: And like I said, it was TV and movies if
Speaker 2: you wanted to be somebody. Yeah, well now you know
Speaker 2: you just needed to sit a light in.
Speaker 1: A ring light and the phone. All right, I think
Speaker 1: we have beaten this one to death, no pun intended.
Speaker 3: We will be back. Well, it's Memorial.
Speaker 1: Day weekend in the States. We'll try and get some
Speaker 1: sort of podcast out next week. We don't actually have
Speaker 1: a movie on the roster for next week, but maybe
Speaker 1: we'll figure something out by Tuesday. Until then, take care
Speaker 1: of yourself, love you mean it, have a great holiday
Speaker 1: if here in America, and we'll be back next week.
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye,