WEBVTT 1 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:25.920 We're Tarmy Lorenzo, and this is the Bitter Kitten Movie Club. Hello, 2 00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:28.359 Kitten's welcome back to another edition of the b k MC, 3 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:30.960 a supplemental edition of the PSO where we take a 4 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:34.560 look at one film per week and dissected and Lorenzo 5 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:40.719 is laughing his ass off, but we're not cutting. 6 00:00:40.799 --> 00:00:42.280 It takes like five times. 7 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.000 This is like the fifth time I've had the Actually 8 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:46.960 it's literally only the second time. 9 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:49.320 Anyway, Are we done? 10 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:52.840 Feel better? Okay? Nothing but a lamp riot here at 11 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:55.079 the b k MC. Okay, so it's. 12 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:59.280 A lot of btr TC over that's white anyway. 13 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:04.159 So this week's film is nineteen ninety five's To Die 14 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:09.000 For by director Gus Vnsant, starring Nicole Kidman, Matt Dillon, 15 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:13.040 Joaquin Phoenix, and a bunch of other nineties. 16 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:18.480 Faces Ileana Douglas, Aleanna Douglas, Allison with a Nhim Follin 17 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:19.239 or something like that. 18 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:23.640 Anyway, she dropped out. She's not an actress anymore anyway. 19 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:26.439 So we take a look at a film every week 20 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:29.680 and just try and dissect it and talk about it 21 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:33.799 and you know, and figure it out. This week's film, 22 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:36.719 like I said, is to dive for and as always 23 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:39.640 with the BKMC, there's a short podcast about the film 24 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:42.760 that gets attached to a much longer essay about the 25 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:44.680 film that will be posted on our say tom on 26 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:49.200 Lorenzo dot com. So you hadn't seen the movie, yes, 27 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:51.599 I want to start off. I want to toss to 28 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:56.239 you because we have very different experiences of this film. 29 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:59.680 I admitted last week I think I had never seen 30 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:03.000 this film. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I 31 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:06.159 wasn't avoiding this film, but for some reason it slipped 32 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:08.719 through the cracks and I never did see it. It's 33 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:14.280 one of those films that's so much a part of 34 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:16.719 the culture that you almost feel like you have seen 35 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:20.439 it if you even if you haven't. And so I 36 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:23.400 finally sat down this week to watch it after you know, 37 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:30.199 thirty one years, and I have some observations shout there 38 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:31.879 were certain aspects of it. I was like, oh, I 39 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.759 did not expect this to be that. But I want 40 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:37.159 you to go first, because you have a long history 41 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:37.680 with the film. 42 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:41.680 Well, I when I was a little boy, a homosexual boy, 43 00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:43.319 I used to get I used to get together with 44 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:46.560 my homosexual friends and watch movies and gush. 45 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:48.439 Oh, we're not a little boy. When this movie came out. 46 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:51.759 Well, well, anyway, my point is that when I was young, my. 47 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:57.800 Friend even that young, all right, you should be determined 48 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.319 to make it sound like you were fourteen years old them. 49 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:06.439 And anyway, well, okay, when whenever I used to get 50 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:09.520 together with my friend and watch movies, you know, and 51 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:12.080 usually you know, all my gay friends who watch movies 52 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:16.319 about people, you know, people like Nicole Kidman and you know, 53 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:20.039 these great actresses that anyway, so I remember watching with 54 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:21.840 my friends when we loved it because she was so 55 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:25.080 bitchy and determined and evil and all that. So we 56 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:28.759 love the movie back then. And then I watch it again, 57 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:31.479 and then I watch it now for the for this, 58 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:34.080 and I still love it. I think, first of all, 59 00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:37.280 I can't get over how gorgeous she looks because she's 60 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:40.479 so young, I know, and they and it's such a 61 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:45.159 great cast because that's exactly what they needed for the character, 62 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.080 someone blonde and and you know, just blue eyed and 63 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:52.639 and you know, very American looking and all that. So yeah, 64 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:56.599 she's perfect for that. Although she's Australian, but anyway, it's 65 00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:59.840 just perfect. She's perfect for that. And I'm surprised. That 66 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:02.479 not surprised, but I was pleased that she did such 67 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:04.759 a great job, you know, in the beginning of her career. 68 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:06.159 Yeah, it's not. 69 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:08.560 I mean, she was already married to Tom Cruise at 70 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:11.439 that point and they had she had had several big films, 71 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:16.800 but I think this was her first major solo. Yeah, 72 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:19.240 and I do think. I always think of it, and 73 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:21.680 I think in retrospect it's largely true that this is 74 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:23.279 kind of the film that put her on the map. 75 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:26.240 I mean, she was a movie star prior to this. 76 00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:29.439 I think she had done Far and Away with Tom 77 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:32.519 Cruise at that point, but this was the film that 78 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:35.079 made people realize that she's an actor. Like she can ask, 79 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:40.279 she can do a good job. Okay, so my observations 80 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:45.600 going into this number one, Now, these are gonna be observations. 81 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:49.920 They're not criticisms, right, They're just I had an expectation 82 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:52.600 going into it, and then I and I was and 83 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:55.600 I'm only saying this. I wouldn't approach every film this way. 84 00:04:55.639 --> 00:04:58.680 I wouldn't approach a new film this way. But like 85 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:01.879 I said, this film has over three decades of you know, 86 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:04.439 history behind it. It's kind of an iconic part of 87 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:08.560 nineties culture, in nineties cinematic cultures, So a film like 88 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:11.079 that builds up a sort of mythology around it or 89 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:13.680 a sort of vibe around it. And when I actually 90 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:16.199 watched the film, it was very interesting to me to 91 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:20.560 unpack how it did not it. I don't want to 92 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:23.040 say it did not meet my expectations because that makes 93 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:26.160 it sound like I was disappointed, but it did certain 94 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:31.000 things that I was I didn't expect. Number one, I 95 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:36.360 didn't realize like I thought her character was had a career. 96 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:39.319 Like you see all the clips and everything, and you 97 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:41.720 think she's some newswoman and everything, and then you watch 98 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:44.560 the movie and it's like, oh no, she's not. She's 99 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:47.279 not she's not what you know, what you thought she was. 100 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:50.639 And that gets to my point about the film being 101 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:53.920 quite a bit darker than I thought it was going 102 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:56.199 to be and when and I mean, it's about a murder, 103 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:59.639 so obviously it's going to be a black comedy. It's 104 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:02.839 me and I don't mean that as a criticism, but 105 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:07.160 it is a mean spirited movie. It takes a dim 106 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:11.399 view of literally everybody in the movie. There's nobody you know, 107 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:13.399 and I don't mean like, Oh, there's nobody likable in 108 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:17.040 this story. It's just like I was surprised that she's dumb, 109 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:19.360 Like Nicole Kidman's character is actually dumb. 110 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:22.319 Yeah, I think that's That's great about her character is 111 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:23.800 that she's very driven, you. 112 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:24.879 Know, like, but she's not smart. 113 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:27.600 She's not mark when she's in Florida, for example, you 114 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:28.839 know that scene that she doesn't. 115 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:30.920 Get she doesn't get what yeah, what the guy say? 116 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:31.720 Yeah? 117 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:33.399 The felloped it. 118 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:36.279 In like ten seconds because none of it was planned 119 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:37.160 out or anything. 120 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:39.399 But I do like that. I do like and I 121 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.920 think the movie makes fun of everybody, you know. 122 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:43.879 Yeah, I mean that's what I mean about it being 123 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:48.240 mean spirited, literally everybody. I thought it was mean about 124 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.759 those teenagers, but I think a movie made. One of 125 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:53.959 the things I want to unpack today is is what 126 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:55.319 if this movie was made today? 127 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:55.839 Right? 128 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:57.240 And I think. 129 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:02.959 I think a movie in twenty twenty six dealing with 130 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.120 the same same topic, I think would take a more 131 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:09.040 sympathetic view of those teenagers. I don't think the film 132 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:12.759 is unsympathetic to them, because it's very clear that these kids. 133 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:13.800 Have no chance. 134 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:16.879 But that's that's the movies very much of its time. Like, 135 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:19.279 you know, when we used to make fun of high school. 136 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:21.160 There were a ton of movies about it, this make 137 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:24.079 You Free column by Yeah, yeah, I know. So it's 138 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:26.439 it wasn't going to unpack that sort of thing. And 139 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:29.199 also the whole Italian thing, you know, like and it's 140 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:32.120 small mind, it's small town. You have a restaurant, and 141 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:34.160 you happy with your life. That's all you want. You 142 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:36.959 want as opposed to her wanting to be you know, 143 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:38.240 like this big, big. 144 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:41.800 Tele thing about the Italian stuff. Early in the film 145 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:45.360 there were references made to the Mafia, and I was like, oh, 146 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:48.639 that's kind of sloppy, you know, like you wouldn't make 147 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:50.279 that kind of joke. But it turns out there with 148 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.160 an actual there was an actual tie to the Mafia 149 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:57.399 near the end of the film. I mean, so, yes, 150 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:00.160 the film is a lot more mean spirited than I 151 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.480 then I originally assumed going into it. I really thought, 152 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:08.920 here's what like Suzanne Stone her character. I kept thinking, 153 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:12.560 you know, she exists on this continuum of like cher 154 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:18.160 Horowitz and Clueless and Elle Woods illegally blonde, and even 155 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:22.920 like Tracy Flick in Election where it's the nineties era 156 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:27.839 or roughly turn of the century post feminist, you know, 157 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:32.480 Susan Faludi's backlash, where it's like all of these super 158 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:37.360 girly characters that were somewhat threatening in certain ways, even clueless. 159 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:42.240 You know, she's like socially threatening. R el Woods, even 160 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:46.000 though she's a heroine, she is threatening to a natural order. 161 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:51.320 Tracy Flick, same thing. Now, Suzanne's stone is on a 162 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:53.519 different level because she's an actual murder. 163 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:54.360 Well she's not a murder. 164 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:58.399 Well yeah, I guess she is a murderer, but esthetically 165 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:01.919 she fits like she's right between cher Horowitz and l 166 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:04.679 Woods in terms of style, in terms of how she 167 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:07.759 was dressed, in terms of the entire esthetic, and even 168 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:15.919 I think Nicole Kimmens's performance, which actually does predate clueless 169 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:18.759 and legally blonde. So I don't I can't say that 170 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:22.960 she influenced those performances, but you can see them. You 171 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:25.320 can just see them in her sort of wide eyed, 172 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:30.879 perky sort of sociopathy and the and in the outfits, 173 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:33.440 the the little pink suits and the polka dots and 174 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:39.120 all of the pastels that she wears. So, like I said, 175 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.080 I what makes her different from those characters is that 176 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:45.399 she's dumb, none of those other like those other blonde 177 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.679 post feminist characters were all very very smart, but she's 178 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:53.039 actually dumb, which again I think is of its time, 179 00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:57.600 because I think the assumption is, you know, pre l Woods, 180 00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:59.559 that a character like that would have to be dumb. 181 00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:07.360 There you didn't have a cinematic example of a smart, devious, girly, 182 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:12.120 pastel wearing blonde. So I thought that part was interesting. 183 00:10:12.279 --> 00:10:14.960 I thought it was interesting that the kids were that 184 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:19.480 the script is so mean to those kids. And I 185 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:22.399 this is not a criticism, but I think if this 186 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:26.679 film was made in twenty twenty six, it have way 187 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:30.159 more of a gay sensibility to it. Gus Vansayan is 188 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:35.840 a gay director, and it's not that his gayness doesn't 189 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:41.279 inform his aesthetic or his work. There is camp in 190 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:45.080 his work, and there's clearly camp in this film, but 191 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:49.600 it is such a subdued nineties form of camp, whereas 192 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:51.320 I feel like if someone were to make this film 193 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:53.320 in twenty twenty six, it would be all glitter and 194 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:57.879 drag queens, which would not be an improvement. And then 195 00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:01.360 the other thing is I did think it was there's 196 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:03.120 like no queer people in the movie at all, and 197 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:06.480 that's just a consequence of it being made in nineteen 198 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:09.759 ninety five, and there's no need to be queer people 199 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:15.240 in the story. However, the teenage girl, there's some implication. 200 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:16.080 That she's a lesbian. 201 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:17.720 Yeah, yeah, and then the sister. 202 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:22.240 The sister has this female friend who's in the background, 203 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:25.480 and it's a very nineties way of alluding to queerness 204 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:29.440 without actually and I wonder if modern audiences would even 205 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:32.919 catch those references. But in nineteen ninety five, gay people 206 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:35.360 would look at that and go, oh, his sister's a lesbian, right, 207 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:35.519 you know. 208 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:38.399 I remember at the time when I saw the movie, 209 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:42.600 what everyone talked about was like how fabulous she was, 210 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:46.480 Nicole Kidman, and how the character, how fabulous the character was, 211 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:48.480 and how mean she was, how bitch that she was, 212 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:51.639 and everybody loved it. Oh yeah, of course she's losse 213 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:54.639 incredible and she's mean to everybody, so of course everybody's 214 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:58.320 gonna like that. Car. I think it's interesting. I think 215 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.559 there's so many elements. I think the movie is very 216 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:04.879 witty too. I mean, there's like the drops things here 217 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:08.159 and there, Like the beginning of the movie, for example, 218 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:09.879 when you have all the news about what happened. 219 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:13.919 Yeah, the opening montage, it's beautiful. It's really really well done. 220 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.960 I mean it really forces you to sit there and 221 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:18.679 pay attention to the credits. 222 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:19.879 And when they talk about now you need to see 223 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:22.559 the whole picture, and they kind of pixelate everything and 224 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.559 then to the point that it's just one big circle. 225 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:27.080 And she wears a lot of polka dots. So I 226 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:30.000 think that's interesting that her costumes had polka dot and 227 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:33.159 you know, they emphasize the fact that sometimes you two 228 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:35.919 in into it, right, that you don't see the big picture. 229 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.159 I do think the polka dots were an interesting costume 230 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:40.440 design motile, right, And I think you're right. I think 231 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:46.000 that does refer to the pixelated pictures because I think, again, 232 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:49.519 if this film we're made today, she'd be in sequence, 233 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:54.799 she'd be in outrageous florals, and she'd almost certainly be 234 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:59.600 in designer clothes, even though that character cannot afford designer clothes. 235 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:02.960 And I did think the costume designer made a really 236 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:06.799 interesting choice that was very nineties, which is that she's 237 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:07.720 clearly wearing. 238 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:08.679 Off the rack clothes. 239 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.600 They're cheap looking, the fabrics don't look expensive, and things 240 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:14.799 don't actually fit her that well, like some of those 241 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:18.440 jackets don't actually fit her that well. Now that's all deliberate, 242 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:20.639 like it's not. Of course, if a character's wearing a 243 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:23.360 poorly fitted outfit, it's not because someone failed at their job. 244 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:25.799 It's because they're trying to say something about them. And 245 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:28.320 I think it again, if this movie were made in 246 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:31.200 twenty twenty six, a costume designer would be sourcing all 247 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.399 of these Chanel pieces and there would be like some oh, 248 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:36.799 she got it on the real reel or something to 249 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:37.840 sort of explain it. 250 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:42.759 But I do like that she wears these fail thing Yeah, 251 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:44.120 these eye popping looks. 252 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.960 That, to be quite honest, not to you know, toot 253 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:50.159 our horn. But not everyone's going to notice that those 254 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:53.720 are actually cheap clothes. And that's a subtle bit of 255 00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:55.639 work on the part of the costume designer, whose name 256 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:57.039 I don't have in front of me, but she will 257 00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:00.000 actually be mentioned in the post. I did look her up. 258 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:05.399 All right, I want to unpack a few other nineties isms. 259 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:07.679 But why don't we take a short break and come back, Yes, 260 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:11.279 all right, we'll be right back. We're back, and we're 261 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:12.600 talking about nineteen ninety five. 262 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:13.480 Is to die for. 263 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:17.559 And I want to get into some of the other 264 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:19.840 cast members. But before we do that, I did want 265 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:27.639 to unpack another bit of history or an example of 266 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:29.759 how the film is very much of its time but 267 00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:35.120 at the same time very very forward looking. One thing 268 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:38.440 that I was struck by in the film. Again, this 269 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:40.759 goes to what did I think this film was about? 270 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:42.519 And then you watch it and you're like, oh, okay, 271 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:44.639 that's not quite what I thought it was about. Like 272 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:47.159 I really thought it was about tabloid television. I thought, 273 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.919 like this story exploded on the news, but it's actually 274 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:54.320 a very small story that actually basically goes nowhere. It 275 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:56.639 never goes outside of its hometown. I know there's a 276 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:00.639 lot of newsy stuff at the beginning of it, but 277 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:01.559 I think no. 278 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:04.200 Towards the end of the movie, the Lydia, the character, 279 00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:06.320 she gets invited to all these TV show that's. 280 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:08.799 Right, that's right, you're right, you're right, you're right. 281 00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:11.480 I hope I get some of the some diet tips. 282 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:15.519 From the right now it does. I guess I thought 283 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:18.120 it was going to be on camera, like all the 284 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.240 tabloid stuff happens outside of the story, and I thought 285 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:24.200 it was literally a movie about the tabloid stuff, so 286 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:31.120 that was a little surprising to me, and I kept, uh, 287 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.519 you know, there were scenes in her living room, in 288 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:35.279 you know, her and Matt Dyllan's living room, and in 289 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.039 their parents' various living rooms, and in the bar actually, 290 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:41.360 where people are turning on the TV because of course 291 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:45.600 the story's got yeah and it's those big boxing nineties TVs. 292 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:47.840 And I'm like, oh wow, this really was a long 293 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:54.360 time ago. And I'm pointing that out because her whole arc, 294 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.480 her whole philosophy, Suzanne is like, you're nobody in America 295 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:03.240 unless you're on TV, and that is not true anymore. 296 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.279 That is because TV is a dying I mean, thirty 297 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.080 one years later, TV is pretty much dying as and 298 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:13.159 if you want to be famous, you just look into 299 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:14.799 your phone and start shooting yourself. 300 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:15.720 But she's still right. 301 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.360 I mean, oh no, she predicted it. Don't get me wrong. 302 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:21.080 The whole line is Lydia character says. It's then used 303 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.159 to say that you're not really anybody in America unless 304 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:25.639 you're on TV, because what's the point of doing anything 305 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:27.799 worthwhile if there's nobody watching it. 306 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:30.159 Now, that's social that's social media today. 307 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:32.720 I mean, I remember watching it again, it was like, Wow, 308 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:33.919 that's social media now. 309 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:36.279 But the thing is, that's what's crazy about that line 310 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.679 is there was no way to predict social media in 311 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:42.000 nineteen ninety five. So it wasn't someone, it wasn't the 312 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:47.159 screenwriter Buck Henry being forward thinking. It's just I guess 313 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:50.080 what you're looking at is the last gaps of twentieth 314 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:56.759 century fame seeking and how it evolved before it evolved 315 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.080 into what it became in the twenty first century. So 316 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:02.600 it really the film serves as like a document of 317 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.440 a time period and a lifestyle. No one's pursuing this 318 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:09.960 life anymore. People are pursuing fame, but not like not 319 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.319 by being a local weather girl. No one thinks of 320 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:13.599 doing it that way anymore. 321 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:16.319 No, it's very specific of the time that if you 322 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:22.559 wanted to be Suzanne famous, like Suzanne wanted, you would 323 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:24.960 have to do movie TV, right, You have to be 324 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:26.839 on your TV or a movie theater. 325 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:27.200 Yeah. 326 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:29.279 Today, all you need to do is have a phone 327 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:31.920 and in a social account, social media account, and then 328 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:32.480 you're famous. 329 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:36.039 Yeah. Yes, am I wrong? 330 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.279 I mean god, Suzan Stone would have loved the Ring Light. 331 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:42.680 Let me tell you, I imagine her now so yeah, 332 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:43.519 it should. 333 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:44.200 Be an influencer. 334 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:47.599 Now she'd be like a like a right wing influencer. 335 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:48.920 How much you want to bet? 336 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:51.240 And then it's interesting because the line, I mean, the 337 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:54.000 quote continues and she says, so when people are watching, 338 00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:56.359 it makes you a better person, and that is so 339 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:57.640 my god. 340 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.039 I mean, that does predict social media right right there. 341 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:03.640 Yeah, I do want to point out Buck Henry is 342 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.799 the screenwriter. He also plays the high school teacher, and 343 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.759 you know, he's the screenwriter of the legendary the graduate. 344 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:14.920 He's he's a writer of long standing and he's very, 345 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.079 very witty. He writes great screenplays, this one included. But 346 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.599 I did sit there thinking as I was watching, I 347 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:23.440 was like, oh, so this is a lot wittier than 348 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:28.400 it's witty. It has a whit to it. And again 349 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:32.240 not a criticism, but you know a couple of times 350 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.920 the teenagers would say something that was just a little 351 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:38.200 too witty for those characters to say. And again that's 352 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:41.240 the film. That's that's the style of film where you're 353 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:43.480 it's all poor people in this rundown town. But every 354 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:45.240 once in a while, some of them, one of them 355 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:47.440 comes out of a line that they probably would not 356 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:48.599 have come up with on their own. 357 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.720 I yeah, I find those movies very interesting. I love 358 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:55.000 movies about small towns and someone trying to get the. 359 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:57.640 Hell out of trying to get that well that's your line, or. 360 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.319 Mean famous, trying to be not that I'm famous, but anyway, 361 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.519 I just love that because it's interesting, because it's not 362 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.240 that there's anything wrong with the way people live, you know. 363 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:09.920 In fact, I think that fame and all that it's 364 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:14.039 extremely overrated. You can be happy having a small lives 365 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.480 quote unquote small life. So I love movies about that. 366 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:21.359 I like Jenni's Moretto's character, for example, because she's so 367 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:24.559 cynical about the whole thing. She understands, you know, that's 368 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:28.680 my life and you're an idiot. But I just love that. 369 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.079 And Eleana Doug was just such a great job she is. 370 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.480 I think she actually is like the movie's secret weapon, right. 371 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:39.599 I think she cuts to a lot of the silliness 372 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:41.759 of the movie and the bullshit of the movie. 373 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:42.240 I love. 374 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:44.920 I mean, obviously the scene of her skating at end. 375 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:47.880 This is what I when I say the film doesn't 376 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:51.759 have a heavy camp factor, I cannot claim that it 377 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:54.599 doesn't have any camp factor. Because her ice skating and 378 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:56.359 that silly pink outfit at the end is. 379 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.279 Hilarious, and she did all the ice skating. 380 00:19:58.519 --> 00:19:59.119 Well, you can see it. 381 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:00.960 I said that we were watching and I was like, 382 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:03.519 that's all in one take. That's really her ice skating. 383 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:05.799 She said. She said that when she was cast she 384 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:08.160 didn't know how to ice skate, but she said she did, 385 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.319 she knew it, and then when they pick her, she 386 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.200 took lessons and she said she worked really hard for 387 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:16.880 six months. And she said the reason why she wanted 388 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.400 to do the scene is because the whole movie is 389 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.839 kind of documentary style kind of movie, and there was 390 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:24.640 no way they're going to just put somebody there and 391 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:25.359 then back to her. 392 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:28.240 I have to admit I didn't know that either. The 393 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:31.359 whole right right documentary style thing, and it's sort of 394 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:33.920 in a pistolary style movie work because they're not all 395 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:36.960 talking to the same way. They're all talking to actually different. 396 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:40.400 Camera For example, you know that she's it's the whole 397 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:42.400 movie is hurt pretty much party much. 398 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:45.839 But yeah, they all were talking to different camera crews 399 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.160 for different production So I guess it does get into 400 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.960 the tabloid TV thing. I guess what I I assumed 401 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.119