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That's by 22 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:01.159 casino dot com. 23 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:03.759 Bill Roguish wherever he be by Lost the terms conditions 24 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:05.599 eighteen plus lost. 25 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:18.959 You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking 26 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:22.079 Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have 27 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:29.439 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 28 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:33.120 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 29 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:37.760 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 30 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:41.799 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 31 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:52.680 Good Evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 32 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:55.519 program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True Crime 33 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:58.680 History and the authors that have written about them. On 34 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:02.200 November six, two and paramedics answered a call to find 35 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:06.959 Christian Rossom. Christin Rossum, twenty four, sobbing. Her husband, Greg 36 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:10.199 de Villers, wasn't breathing, and she claimed he had overdosed 37 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:13.840 on drugs after learning she was leaving him. But family 38 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:16.360 and friends who knew of Gregg's distaste for drugs weren't 39 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:19.800 buying Kristin's story, particularly the idea that he would take 40 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:22.960 his own life. The daughter of a well to do 41 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:27.240 California family, Rossam was a brainy, blonde beauty whose talent 42 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:31.039 for toxology had wonder a post at the San Diego 43 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:35.080 County Medical Examiner's office, but her sweet smile masked a 44 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:39.159 dark side. She developed a taste for methanphetamine in high school, 45 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:42.080 and six months after her marriage to Greg, she'd begun 46 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:46.520 seeking secret tryst with other men. At the time of 47 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:49.520 her husband's death, Rossam was engaged in an illicit affair 48 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.759 with her married boss. Investigators found that the medical Examiner's 49 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.520 office was missing supplies of meth and fetanyl, the narcotic 50 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:00.639 that had killed her husband. With each clue covered, another 51 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:04.199 piece of Rossam's good girl facade fell away. What the 52 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:06.479 world would eventually see was the true face of a 53 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:10.319 murderer and the hands of justice. The book that we're 54 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:12.879 going to be featuring this evening is called Poisoned Love, 55 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:17.599 with my special guests, journalist and author Caitlyn Rother. Welcome 56 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:20.479 back to the program, and thank you to agreeing. Thank 57 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:31.759 you for agreeing to this interview. Kitlyn Rother. Good evening, Caitlyn, Oh, 58 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:36.080 good evening. Thank you very much. I just introduced the 59 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:39.520 the It did a little introduction about your book, and 60 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:43.560 unfortunately I had you on mute. So oh okay, welcome 61 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:48.639 to the program and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Okay, 62 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:51.280 thank you. Let's start off with a little bit of 63 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:57.639 background on the subject of this book, Poisoned Love, and 64 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:00.639 that is Kristin Rossom, and tell us a little bit 65 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:04.280 about Christian Rosam and the kind of family she grew 66 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:06.080 up and where she grew up. Give us a little 67 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:09.080 bit of that background before we get into this incredible tale. 68 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:15.159 Okay, Kristin Rossam was. She grew up in southern California 69 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:19.439 in a town called Claremont. Now, if you've ever seen 70 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:21.079 the movie, I'm going to try to remember it now. 71 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:24.959 It's a black and white movie that suddenly goes into colors. 72 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:29.959 It's set in the fifties, right with town pleasant what's 73 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:30.319 it called. 74 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:31.920 I think it's Pleasantville. 75 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:34.399 Was a Pleasantville, that's right, that's kind of I drove 76 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:36.800 up to Claremont, and that's kind of what I felt like. 77 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:40.720 It was this small, cloistered little town. You know, a 78 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.879 lot of the people who live there work at the 79 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:48.639 various universities, and so it's you know, probably very well educated, 80 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:53.160 you know, relatively affluent community. So that's where she grew up. 81 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:58.560 And her parents both have PhDs, and her father actually 82 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:02.240 has a pretty a big reputation of his own it's 83 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:05.600 a place called the Rose Institute. So he's a scholar 84 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:11.040 as well and is friends with Scalia on the Supreme Court. 85 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:14.480 So very conservative. So I think she basically grew up 86 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:19.839 in a pretty, you know, small town with high standards, 87 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:23.720 where she was expected to perform, and she became a 88 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:26.879 perfectionist because she was trying so hard to I think, 89 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:32.160 please her parents. So that's that's pretty much who she's, 90 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:35.279 where she's come from, and that sort of sets you 91 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:37.600 up for who she is and who she becomes. 92 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:41.439 Now. Her mother's name is Constance, and her father's name 93 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.279 is Ralph, and she has two brothers, Brent and Pierce. 94 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:46.759 And so we'll get into all of that because every 95 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.120 one of these characters is very crucial to this story 96 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:54.360 as time goes on before the trial and with a 97 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:58.800 subsequent trial as well. Now tell us about Kristin growing up, 98 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:01.879 at least in grade school and then early high school. 99 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:05.240 Was there any indication of any problems whatsoever? And what 100 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:08.160 was the relationship like with her parents? And what was 101 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:11.839 she like as a student? Was she popular? Was she accepted? 102 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:15.879 Was she an achiever? What was her life characterized as 103 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:20.120 she grew up and say, her early teens well. 104 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:24.639 She basically my take on it is that she seemed, 105 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:26.759 you know, like she was a ballet dancer, so she 106 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:31.000 was very pretty, and she was really good at that, 107 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:33.519 and she was very I think people thought that she 108 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:36.839 had a pretty sunny personality, so people thought she was 109 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:43.480 very sweet, and she did well in school. And then 110 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:46.920 she got injured though when she was dancing ballet, and 111 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:51.560 you know that does happen sure, and her father got relocated. 112 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.680 He went back and forth, actually, you know, go to 113 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:59.279 different jobs. And she was modeling actually when she was 114 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:02.839 very young, and there were some headshots that I don't 115 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:05.000 think I was able to get permission to use as 116 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:06.879 a shame though, because they were in the court evidence 117 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:09.240 and they were so cute. So she learned really early 118 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:14.959 how to be an actress as well. So her her 119 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.759 mother made it clear when she talked to the media 120 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:20.480 that Kristin was not an actress. She was a pelly dancer. 121 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:22.639 But you could tell from the modeling shots that she 122 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:27.120 really was a good little actress. So she was very pretty. 123 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:29.600 She worked, she worked for a model as a model 124 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:32.439 for Marshall Fields and Sears and McDonald's and Montgomery Ward 125 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:35.000 when she was real little and then you know, ballet 126 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:38.639 dancers have often have body image issues because they need 127 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:41.920 to be so thin. Well, she she became very self 128 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:45.519 conscious apparently and thought she was fat, so she I 129 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:48.439 think that's that also set her up for ending up 130 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:52.800 as a teenager getting addicted to mass which is, I 131 00:07:52.839 --> 00:07:54.680 know you haven't quite gotten there yet, but I was 132 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:56.240 just making it easier for you. 133 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:01.360 Right now, What what point and under what circumstances did 134 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:06.680 she go from the idyllic apple of her father and 135 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:11.040 mother's eye to someone with at least some bumps in 136 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:14.519 the road and some problems, And tell us about how 137 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:19.639 the family or the parents had been particular handled this rebellion, 138 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:22.399 we'll say, Well, I. 139 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:26.519 Think my personal theory is that Kristen really wanted to 140 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:31.360 be perfect, and so she started taking you know, laxatives 141 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:34.200 and diet pills to make her self look even sinner. 142 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:39.039 But basically, I don't know if it was a rebellion 143 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.600 per se. I think she basically just decided that she 144 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:46.919 would try mess mess amphetamine with a friend in the 145 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.559 parking lot at homecoming, and she just really liked it 146 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:53.639 so and once she started using it, she wanted to 147 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:56.519 use it more. And I don't know if anyone listening 148 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:59.080 has ever used math, and I certainly haven't, but I 149 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:02.919 know from the information that I learned through writing this 150 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:06.600 book that it produces a sense of euphoria that you 151 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:11.200 could never achieve without using this drug. So, you know, 152 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:15.159 she started using it because I think she probably also thought, oh, 153 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:17.879 this will be cool because i'll be sin right. Plus 154 00:09:17.879 --> 00:09:19.399 she liked it so much and she could get a 155 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:22.440 lot done. And then when you start using math, though, 156 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:24.039 you need to use it more and more just to 157 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.360 feel normal. And so she started, you know, and you 158 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:30.799 don't sleep, so she would go for a long time 159 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:33.679 without sleeping. I mean, that's what you do when you're 160 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:36.080 on math. And her grades started to fail, which was 161 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:39.080 very bizarre for her because she was such a perfect 162 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:43.000 little student as well. So her parents. You know, they 163 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:45.559 don't know anything about drugs. They that's the furthest thing 164 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.960 that their background ever came from. You know, they actually 165 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:54.759 met at a religious college, so they didn't even know 166 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:56.559 what was going on. They didn't know what they were 167 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:02.120 looking at. And but the brothers started noticing that something 168 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:06.000 was different, and they were the ones that found a 169 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:09.120 pipe and a small mirror. I guess she was probably 170 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:12.480 snorting it and showed him to the mom and she 171 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:16.039 didn't have any idea what this was about, which seems 172 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:18.360 incredibly naive, but I. 173 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:22.080 Guess that was it before the days of Google, right, 174 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:26.360 So she had this drug poblem And how did the 175 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:29.279 parents deal with this? Did they called Betty Ford? Was 176 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:30.519 the very well. 177 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:34.799 Denial and let's hide it and stigma. You know, we 178 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:38.039 don't want to have anybody to break our perfect image 179 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:42.360 of our perfect family. That's basically what happened. 180 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:43.799 So she was. 181 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:49.039 Arrested finally and as a juvenile, so it wasn't on 182 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:50.639 her record ultimately. 183 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:50.679 But. 184 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:57.159 She was you know, buying mass and had a party 185 00:10:57.159 --> 00:11:00.840 at the house and stuff went to from the house 186 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:05.679 and and then Constance also found some white powder in 187 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.720 the mailbox, and her daughter, you know, Kristen, lied about it. 188 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:16.519 And then basically there was a police officer who ended 189 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:19.679 up coming to the house because you know that Ralph 190 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:22.799 went into her backpack and found found some her little 191 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:26.320 stash box. So you know, they thought, well, we'll just 192 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:28.399 get her, you know, get the police to talk to 193 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:31.000 her because they didn't know what to do. And anyway, 194 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:36.120 she she ended up getting in trouble. But and then 195 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:38.840 there was a whole whole lot of controversy later. Was 196 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:41.320 she really ill arrested? Was she not arrested? You know, 197 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.240 did she have a record? Did she not have a record. 198 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:45.919 And the thing about the parents is they wanted to 199 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:49.759 do everything that they could to you know, make it 200 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:53.399 seem like nothing was really wrong. So what they what 201 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:55.759 they did? You know, if you're going to look at 202 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:59.720 it purely from an addiction standpoint, they weren't. They didn't 203 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:01.519 feel with it in the right way. They took her 204 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:04.240 out of town to some meetings and hid it, you know. 205 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:08.559 And just if you're going to teach your kid to 206 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:11.480 lie and teach your kid to hide things, it's not 207 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:15.159 surprising that that's what they do later on all by themselves. 208 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:18.279 Yeah, it's interesting that the mother's behavior seems to be 209 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.480 pretty consistent all the way right to the very end. 210 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:26.120 Yeah, and she you know, another example of doing you know, 211 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:30.879 bad mentoring is you know, Kristin ended up. Well, I'm 212 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:32.279 sure you're getting to this, but I just want to 213 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:36.639 jump ahead from it. She was flunking out of her 214 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:40.559 first year of college and you know, ran away, and 215 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:42.960 later on, when she was applying to another college, her 216 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:47.080 mother helped her fill out the application and basically left 217 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:50.440 off the entire you know, failed semester at this other 218 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:54.039 college when the application absolutely required that and required a 219 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:58.080 signature under penalty of perjury. And her mom said, oh, 220 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:02.120 let's just leave that off. So I mean again, you know, 221 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:04.240 let's just hide all the bad stuff and pretend it 222 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:08.960 didn't happen. That's that's not truthful, and it's actually an 223 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:09.840 illegal thing to do. 224 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:14.559 You know, Now, where where was this? Now she gets 225 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:18.440 this intervention, by our intervention, but her mother interferes and 226 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:23.600 and her helps her on her behalf fudging basically her 227 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:25.159 education records so that. 228 00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:26.919 She can get into this further down the line. 229 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.120 But okay, so let's let's just the pattern. 230 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:31.519 It sort of starts early. 231 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:35.799 You know, let's talk about what school she was going 232 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:38.080 to and what year that is, so for our audience 233 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:40.080 to know of give it a little a time frame, 234 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:44.559 and what was that and where did she eventually at 235 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:48.799 what point did she eventually meet Greg and under what circumstances? 236 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:51.840 Okay, so now I'm going to have to actually look 237 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:54.480 at my own book to tell me all these dates 238 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:57.759 because it was a long time ago. I don't have 239 00:13:57.799 --> 00:13:58.840 all those things in mine. 240 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:02.840 I think we're talking about two thousand just for our audience. 241 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:06.759 Well, the murder was in two thousand. 242 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:08.480 Right, so we've got to go back that. 243 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:14.200 Yeah, it's in the nineteen nineties. 244 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:15.279 So we'll say late nineties. 245 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:20.120 Just yeah, well early early nineties is when they met. 246 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:26.080 Okay or mid nineties. Sorry, I don't remember all these 247 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:26.759 things anymore. 248 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:32.600 Anyway, go on, Okay, So tell us what were the 249 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:36.279 circumstances that she met Greg? What was it? What was 250 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:39.960 before we get into his personality. Just tell us how 251 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:43.320 they met and what were the circumstances in which they met. 252 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.879 Just roughly, So, as I mentioned before, Kristen was on 253 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:50.159 drugs when she was starting college. So she got clean 254 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.519 they you know, after this whole high school thing. And 255 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:56.720 this is a pattern for her throughout. So she would 256 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:58.840 get clean and she'd relapse and binge. So she was 257 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:01.600 a binge chooser. So she they trusted her again and 258 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:04.120 they let her go stay in the dorms and she 259 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:08.559 was failing out again. Not again, but she started failing 260 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:10.759 out and they didn't really know what was going on. 261 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:13.679 They came to pick her up Christmas vacation when she 262 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:18.360 was at Redlands university and this is in southern California, 263 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.919 and she wasn't there, so she had basically disappeared from 264 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:27.759 campus and decided to go down to Mexico. So I 265 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:31.159 live in San Diego, so that's the big city next 266 00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:34.759 to the Mexican border, and there on the other side 267 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:39.159 of the border is a city called Tijuana. So that's 268 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:41.279 where a lot of kids who will go to college 269 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.720 down here, and even in high school, you can go 270 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.720 down there and drink, you know, and you just walk 271 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:50.039 over the pedestrian bridge essentially, and you can go down 272 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:51.159 there and nobody. 273 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:51.960 Will know, right. 274 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:55.240 So that's essentially what she decided to do was take 275 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:57.159 the I don't know how she got down there, but 276 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:01.799 she somehow got down to an area right above the border, 277 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:06.039 and then she started walking through the pedestrian area to 278 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.639 walk over the bridge, and there's a turnstile right there 279 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.639 where you it's one of those metal things which looks 280 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:14.639 like two combs facing each other, and that's where she 281 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.279 dropped her jacket and Greg bent over to pick it up. 282 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:19.440 And Greg was going down there too. Greg was going 283 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:22.559 to University of California, San Diego, and so was his 284 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:27.200 brother Jerome, and they had his younger brother, Bertrand with him, 285 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:30.279 who was underage, and they were going down to go party, 286 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.600 and so was Kristin. Kristin was by herself, so they 287 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:35.639 started chatting and they said, oh, you know, why don't 288 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:37.519 you come down with us because she was by herself. 289 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.720 So that's how they met and they had a great time, 290 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.240 and I guess she basically said she didn't have anywhere 291 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:46.720 to go, so Greg took her home and then she 292 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:47.440 never left. 293 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.080 Right now, let's go a little bit backwards for the 294 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.559 background on Greg. But let's start off they did not 295 00:16:56.080 --> 00:17:00.240 share the same addiction whatsoever. And so tell us Greg 296 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.879 and basically what he was like at that time when 297 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:07.640 he met her, and she was this recovering addict. We'll 298 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:12.000 say when brackets recovering. But what was Greg like? In college? 299 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.279 Greg was a straight arrow and Greg was still in school, 300 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.160 and so Kristen started going to college and Greg basically 301 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:21.920 got her off drugs, so she was staying down there. 302 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:27.359 She disappeared, her parents didn't know where she was, and 303 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.039 basically Greg got her clean. So by the time she 304 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.200 got back in contact with her parents and they came 305 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.200 down and met Greg. They loved Greg because he was 306 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:36.960 able to get her clean when they weren't able to 307 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:40.880 do that right, So they were very happy with him 308 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:45.240 and they called him, you know, their angel. So I'm sorry, 309 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:47.440 I just found the day Greg met Kristen in late 310 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:48.440 nineteen ninety four. 311 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.720 Okay, thank you. The other thing too, is what we 312 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:55.720 talk about is that they really liked Greg, and then 313 00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.799 we'll talk about how that seemed to change at at 314 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:02.799 trial or at least through testimony. Yeah, that they liked 315 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.640 this guy so much and trusted him so much and 316 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:08.920 were thankful that they all and were very confident in 317 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:12.279 their daughter. Now again, that they covered all their costs. 318 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:14.960 There was talk of like seventy five thousand dollars in 319 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:17.680 accumulated cost, so they were paying for most of the 320 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:21.160 things that were at least helping out very very generously 321 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:23.160 during that time that they were together. 322 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:26.319 Yeah, helping with rant and everything. But they didn't know 323 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:30.559 that she was living with him. So yeah, yeah, that 324 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:31.440 little thing. 325 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.839 When did they actually find out that they were living together, Well, it. 326 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:38.440 Took her a little while because Kristen basically, I think, 327 00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:40.240 led them to believe that she had her own apartment 328 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:43.799 and so they were helping her with her apartment. They 329 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.240 didn't realize it was her and Greg's apartment, so it 330 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:49.440 took a little while, but you know, that's kind of 331 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:51.480 a hard thing to hide after when they come down 332 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:52.640 to visit and that kind of thing. 333 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:59.480 So do you think that that was a an issue 334 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:04.000 or we will say that that attributed to her maybe 335 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.200 considering marriage and being more comfortable with that. 336 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.720 No. No, I think basically Greg wanted to marry her, 337 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:15.160 and she wasn't really sure whether she wanted to marry Greg. 338 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:19.440 And meanwhile, you know, she she had been cheating on 339 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:24.119 Greg all the way along, and don't you know, I 340 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:27.880 know of some things that I wasn't able to completely prove, 341 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:29.039 but I didn't want to put it in the book. 342 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.240 But I heard from people that she had been Dalliantis 343 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:34.519 and there's some things, you know, with letters and emails 344 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:37.480 and things that came out later that was clear that 345 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:41.559 she was carrying on certain flirtations and more serious than 346 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:47.160 than flirtations. And anyway, so she wasn't really sure what 347 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.319 she wanted to do. But you know, she loved him. 348 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:51.720 I'm not sure she was in love with him, but 349 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:54.359 you know, he was very good to her. 350 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:58.240 Right, and you can get lucky just about anywhere. 351 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:02.000 It's your captains speaking. We've got clear runway and the 352 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:03.880 weather's five. But we're just going to circle up here 353 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:06.960 a while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that. 354 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.480 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 355 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.839 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 356 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:13.359 and start getting lucky. 357 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.799 Pay for free at Lucky landslides dot com. Are you 358 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:20.279 feeling lucky? No, we're just necessary void. We're prohibited by 359 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.480 Law eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply to see website 360 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:24.599 for details. 361 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:27.440 You know, I think she probably felt like she owed 362 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:32.200 him something, so they finally, you know, she finally agreed, 363 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:34.839 and partly, she said later she blamed her parents for this, 364 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:37.119 that they basically were like, yeah, you should marry Greg. 365 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:40.839 So I don't think it had anything to do with 366 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:42.839 the living together things, because after a certain point, I 367 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:44.400 think her parents just kind of had to deal with 368 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:46.400 the fact that, you know, if this is a lesser 369 00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:48.920 of two evils in our you know, religious world, that 370 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:51.599 at least she's clean when she's with Greg, and that's 371 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.160 a that's a more important thing. 372 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:56.880 Right now. You say they got together in ninety four, 373 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:00.319 and we're talking about later in two thousand and so 374 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:05.039 what was their relationship? Like you say, it seems that 375 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:08.640 you found some that she was stepping out, maybe even 376 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:12.119 early on. But tell us what from all other appearances, 377 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.720 From what Constance and Ralph thought, and what Devilliers thought, 378 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:20.319 or at least his mother thought, what exactly did they 379 00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:23.000 did the families, at least for the first few years, 380 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:26.400 think that was was happening between the two in this relationship. 381 00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:29.759 I'm not sure what you mean. I mean, they were 382 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:31.000 seeing each other. 383 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:34.000 How did they seem to them? Yeah? How did how 384 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:36.200 did the relationship seem to both families? 385 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:40.119 Well, I think early on, I think they thought it 386 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:43.200 was fine, right, But I don't think the parents really 387 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:49.079 had a clue about and honestly, they see things. They 388 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.480 saw things differently after the murders than they did at 389 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.559 the time. I'm pretty sure of that. So, I mean, 390 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:58.839 I think maybe the question you ask you, you're asking 391 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:00.319 us what did they think was going on? But I 392 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.799 don't think they thought it until later, That's my point. 393 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:06.599 No, I know what you depict in the book is 394 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:09.720 that it didn't It didn't happen overnight, this entire situation. 395 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.599 So it seemed to be Greg. 396 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:15.799 Finish college and you know, have do that sort of 397 00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:16.240 thing too. 398 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:19.559 So now in terms of employment, which is very important, 399 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.480 both of them did graduate from school, and where did 400 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:27.200 they where were they both employed and what area, what 401 00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:28.799