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<v Speaker 1>This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI

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<v Speaker 1>AM six forty, the Doctor Wendy wallsh Show on demand

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<v Speaker 1>on the iHeartRadio app k I AM six forty. You

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<v Speaker 1>have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Wendy Walsh Show. If you are new to my show,

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<v Speaker 1>sit back, relax. I got all kinds of news about

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<v Speaker 1>the science of love. I have a PhD in clinical psychology.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a psychology professor at cal State Channel Islands. Go Dolphins.

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<v Speaker 1>We're back in school tomorrow. Kids, You're not kids, you're adults,

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<v Speaker 1>the adults of cal State Channel Islands. And tomorrow we're

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<v Speaker 1>actually going to do a fun thing in class, Kayla.

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<v Speaker 1>I had all my students take a Meersbriggs personality test.

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<v Speaker 1>I know they're pros and cons to that test, although

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<v Speaker 1>lots of employers use it, and I tried to make

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<v Speaker 1>productivity groups so that for the whole semester, the group

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<v Speaker 1>that their work the small group in class they'll be

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<v Speaker 1>working with, is like a perfect match compatibility wise and

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<v Speaker 1>personality wise. Oh that should be nice. Yeah, it'd be

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<v Speaker 1>really interesting to see. So anyway, I spent half this

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<v Speaker 1>today looking at spreadsheets trying to figure that out. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>also obsessed with the science of love. I've written three

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<v Speaker 1>books on relationships, did my dissertation on attachment theory, and

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<v Speaker 1>I have been here for ten years reporting on the

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<v Speaker 1>science of love. On KFI producer Kayla, do you remember

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<v Speaker 1>we had a woman on a tragic story from New

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<v Speaker 1>Jersey whose son died by suicide after a sextortion sextortion?

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<v Speaker 1>I do remember the case. He was a teenager, he

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<v Speaker 1>was home alone, he just had his braces titan, and

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<v Speaker 1>he was in pain. So he stayed home from school

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<v Speaker 1>and met what he thought was a cute little girl

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<v Speaker 1>online and then this person in Africa, so that they

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<v Speaker 1>were gonna put these naked pictures of him everywhere and

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<v Speaker 1>blah blah blah.

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<v Speaker 2>And he wasn't even addicted to social media. He just

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<v Speaker 2>got on for that day and he was a victim. Unfortunately.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, very very very sad. Well. I have been angry

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time about the romance scams that happen

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<v Speaker 1>online and the sextortion, so that you understand the difference,

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<v Speaker 1>not a big difference, but romance scams are more likely

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<v Speaker 1>to be targeted against the elderly or lonely divorces over

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<v Speaker 1>the age of forty or fifty, and it's where some

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<v Speaker 1>and it's often a syndicate, a group of people, not

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<v Speaker 1>just an individual, will give makeup fake profiles. They'll go

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<v Speaker 1>on and try to friend request a bunch of people

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<v Speaker 1>in your group so it looks like a legitimate person

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<v Speaker 1>that your friends know, and then they start chatting with you,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's on Facebook, Instagram, whatever, or the dating apps

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<v Speaker 1>themselves right, and before you know it, with a romance scam,

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<v Speaker 1>they get you to fall in love. And it's really

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<v Speaker 1>easy to do because we're all wired to bond. And

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<v Speaker 1>in fact, the drug called love is the most delusional

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<v Speaker 1>drug that we have. We actually there's lots of research

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<v Speaker 1>on this. We are unable to discern well when we

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<v Speaker 1>are high on love, and when that love is filled

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<v Speaker 1>with our own fantasies of what could be and hope

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<v Speaker 1>is even worse. So before you know it, with romance scams,

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<v Speaker 1>this person at the other end, who they're pretending to be,

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<v Speaker 1>claims that you know, they need money for you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a family member surgery or plane fair to come over

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever, and people just start sending money. Well, with teenagers,

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<v Speaker 1>it can be even more dangerous because teenagers are at

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<v Speaker 1>a developmental stage of their brain where they are particularly

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<v Speaker 1>susceptible to something called social evaluative threat, which means your

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<v Speaker 1>teenager is always saying to you, mom, don't say that

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<v Speaker 1>that's awkward, Mom, don't embarrass me, right, because they really

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<v Speaker 1>are feeling deep shame and embarrassment more than the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of us. It's a developmental stage. And so some of

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<v Speaker 1>these syndicates, many of them out of the country called Nigeria,

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<v Speaker 1>target teenagers pretending to be young, attractive females and then

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<v Speaker 1>they end up well getting the saying that they're going

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<v Speaker 1>to post these pictures with families. So in twenty twenty two,

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<v Speaker 1>a young teenager named Jordan de Maay. He played in Michigan.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a high school football player. He was contacted

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<v Speaker 1>online by what he thought was a pretty young woman

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<v Speaker 1>on Instagram. Since she seemed to be friends with people,

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<v Speaker 1>this seventeen year old knew, they began chatting. Eventually she

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<v Speaker 1>convinced him to take a picture of his you know

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<v Speaker 1>what with his face in it, So send some nude

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<v Speaker 1>pictures and then this person wrote, I have screenshot all

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<v Speaker 1>of your followers and tags and can send your nudes

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<v Speaker 1>to family and friends until it goes viral. All you

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<v Speaker 1>have to do is cooperate with me. Well, this poor

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<v Speaker 1>kid was so scared he sent all the money he

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<v Speaker 1>had to savings account three hundred dollars, but his extorters

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<v Speaker 1>continued to harass him. At one point, they even encouraged

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<v Speaker 1>him to take his own life if he didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>enough money to pay. His last text was sent to

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<v Speaker 1>his mom. It simply read, mother, I love you. Jordan

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<v Speaker 1>was found dead of a self inflicted gunshot wound. There's

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<v Speaker 1>some good news here. A year later, the Nigerian government

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<v Speaker 1>finally began to cooperate with American investigators and are starting

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<v Speaker 1>to allow extradition of those people charged with operating sextortion rings.

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<v Speaker 1>And this week a federal judge in Michigan sentenced two

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<v Speaker 1>brothers they were aged twenty one and twenty four, to

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<v Speaker 1>seventeen and a half years in prison for their roles

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<v Speaker 1>in extorting money for more than one hundred victims. And

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<v Speaker 1>we don't know how many deaths. We know for sure

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<v Speaker 1>the death of Jordan Debay. Two others are currently being

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<v Speaker 1>extra guided extradited to Pennsylvania. The biggest message here is

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to track you down. Now, We're going to

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<v Speaker 1>hold you accountable. Did you know in the a two

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<v Speaker 1>year period from twenty one to twenty three, the FBI

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<v Speaker 1>got more than thirteen thousand reports of sex stortion and

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<v Speaker 1>more than twenty teenagers took their own lives because of this.

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<v Speaker 1>This is why we have to talk to our teenagers

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<v Speaker 1>about this. We have to tell our kids that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to be wiser online. But also it's not their fault.

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<v Speaker 1>Is something like this happens? All right. I also want

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<v Speaker 1>to move to other news, which is Nicole Kidman's new film,

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<v Speaker 1>Baby Girl. How much time do I have? I know

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<v Speaker 1>I've been rattling away here only one minute, So I

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<v Speaker 1>just want to say this. So Nicole Kidman's new movie,

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<v Speaker 1>which is called Baby Girl, I already have a problem

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<v Speaker 1>with the title. She's grown ass woman. My love to

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<v Speaker 1>say that on the radio. Oh no, no, how old

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<v Speaker 1>is you?

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<v Speaker 2>Neian to number?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's what she is? All right, that's what she is.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>The New York Times says it's a dairy indy that

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<v Speaker 1>re establishes Kidman as one of our most fearless actresses.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh man, oh man, When we come back the movie

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<v Speaker 1>starts with her faking and orgasm, and then you won't

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<v Speaker 1>believe what she does immediately afterwards. Twenty twenty four. Yep,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, when we come back, I'll explain. You are

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<v Speaker 1>listening to the Doctor Wendy Waalh Show on KFI AM

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<v Speaker 1>six forty Belive everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

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<v Speaker 3>You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI

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<v Speaker 3>AM six forty.

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<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty, you have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the Doctor Wendy Walls Show. And I have

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<v Speaker 1>just begun a rant. I haven't even seen the movie.

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<v Speaker 1>On Nicole Kidman's new movie, Baby Girl. I read the

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<v Speaker 1>review in the New York Times. I will see it

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<v Speaker 1>because it's not fair to comment on something and then

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<v Speaker 1>not see it and then later tell you if I

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<v Speaker 1>was wrong. But here's what bothers me about it. So

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<v Speaker 1>Baby Girl is the movie. She Nicole Kidman plays a

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<v Speaker 1>breadwinner in her family, a hard charging CEO, and apparently

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<v Speaker 1>the film opens with her faking and orgasm with her husband.

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<v Speaker 1>Then Hobby falls asleep. Now, women, this is the first

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<v Speaker 1>thing we would think to do, right. She gets up,

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<v Speaker 1>runs to her laptop opens it up because women are

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<v Speaker 1>so visually wired, finds the most sn M pornography she

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<v Speaker 1>can where a woman's being beaten, abused, gagged, whatever, and

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<v Speaker 1>has an orgasm that way, and then later in the

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<v Speaker 1>movie there she finds a young man at the office

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<v Speaker 1>who will do it to her. In real life, the

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<v Speaker 1>director of the movie is quoted as saying, every woman

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<v Speaker 1>deserves a good orgasm. Stop right there, producer, Kayla. Remember

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<v Speaker 1>we had the anthropologist or evolutionary biologist on the show

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<v Speaker 1>who told us that anatomically, there are percentage of women

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<v Speaker 1>who literally cannot ever have an orgasm physiologically, that it

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<v Speaker 1>has nothing to do with you know, this problem in

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<v Speaker 1>their head. It just has to do with the length

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<v Speaker 1>of the glitterists and how far it extends into the vagina.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Elizabeth Lloyd the Case of the Female Orgasm. There's

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<v Speaker 2>a whole Mating Matters episode about it on your Patreon.

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<v Speaker 2>I learned so much, And also she wrote it's the

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<v Speaker 2>books called what Thing the Case of the Female or

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<v Speaker 2>case even.

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<v Speaker 1>SNL just gets on it when it came out. YEA,

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<v Speaker 1>so fascinating to learn that a bunch of women so

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<v Speaker 1>here in twenty twenty four is a female director coming

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<v Speaker 1>out saying every woman does he think if you were away?

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<v Speaker 2>That was a female director, Are you kidding me?

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<v Speaker 1>So here's the thing. It's like, first we pressured women

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<v Speaker 1>who didn't have an orgasm by saying there's something wrong

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<v Speaker 1>with you or mentally you're an orgasmic. That was actually

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<v Speaker 1>a diagnosis an orgasmic. Oh no, it's a problem. And

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<v Speaker 1>now and we had another expert on it. I can't

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<v Speaker 1>remember who she was. I think she was from Toronto

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<v Speaker 1>and she said that she realized in her research that

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<v Speaker 1>it is perfectly appropriate to not be aroused by bad sex.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, then, would rather be like, oh you're broken,

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<v Speaker 2>as opposed to.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just not doing the job right exactly. Okay, next thing,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to say, how many women really consume porn? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>according to the research, it's only about fifteen percent maybe,

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<v Speaker 1>And when they do, it's usually with their partner to

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<v Speaker 1>enhance the monogamy. It is a rare woman who rushes

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<v Speaker 1>to the computer and opens it. She might exist, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's rare. Well that's twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the phone, Wendy, it's supposing their phone.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you're apparently she ran her lefto maybe because she

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<v Speaker 1>needed glasses. Yeah, that was too small. The next thing

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<v Speaker 1>is we also had Justin Justin the other Justin from

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<v Speaker 1>the Kinsey Institute, not not Justin Garcia, Justin How come

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<v Speaker 1>all these great researchers and they're not coming in my mind?

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, he did the study on sexual fantasies and

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<v Speaker 1>what percentage of sexual fantasies actually get acted out? Justin

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<v Speaker 1>lay Miller, Justin lay Miller, thank you. We've had him

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<v Speaker 1>here in the studio. In fact, and it's a very

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<v Speaker 1>very small percentage. And in fact, most of the people

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<v Speaker 1>he interviewed are the thousands of people he did for

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<v Speaker 1>his surveys, said they would never want their fantasies to

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<v Speaker 1>actually happen in real life. And there's Nicole Kidman watching Like.

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<v Speaker 1>The bottom line is, why are we raving about a

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<v Speaker 1>movie about a female with power who only feels happy

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<v Speaker 1>when she's dominated by a man? All right, I'll stop,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll see the movie. I'll see the movie later and

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<v Speaker 1>then I'll figure it out. On that note, though, this

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<v Speaker 1>week I was contacted by one of the magazines I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, Glamour, Ask Man, whatever, Men's health. I don't.

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<v Speaker 1>I get asked for quotes on a regular basis, and

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<v Speaker 1>they asked the question, when is the right time to

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<v Speaker 1>let your new partner know how much money you make? Now,

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<v Speaker 1>now this question is specifically I think it was glamorous

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<v Speaker 1>for women, right, Maybe it was Cosmo. I think it

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<v Speaker 1>was Cosmo. Now I'm thinking about it. Sorry everybody, but

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<v Speaker 1>you know, so much has changed in the last few decades.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the average female outpaces the American male in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of educational attainment. Women now make up the majority

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<v Speaker 1>of the American workforce. An economic clout is fast becoming

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<v Speaker 1>the purview of the feminine. But with this new economic power,

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<v Speaker 1>I believe come a few landmines in our love lives.

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<v Speaker 1>First of all, according to evolutionary psychologists, who definitely have

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<v Speaker 1>turned human mating strategy into a science, they believe our

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<v Speaker 1>ancient biology rules. In other words, we're walking in cave

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<v Speaker 1>women bodies that have not caught up with these cultural changes.

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<v Speaker 1>For instance, the more money a woman makes, the more

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<v Speaker 1>she wants her male partner to make too, So on

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<v Speaker 1>an unconscious level, for some women, it doesn't feel natural.

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<v Speaker 1>I hate that word natural. I made my fingers into

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<v Speaker 1>quotation marks right there. It doesn't feel natural to fit

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<v Speaker 1>in with today's standards. Newsflash, ladies, there are not enough

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<v Speaker 1>guys to go around who make more money than you,

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<v Speaker 1>So you're going to have to deal with that patriarchy

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<v Speaker 1>that's floating around inside you. But there's something else. There's

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<v Speaker 1>also a new breed of lothario who loves the new

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<v Speaker 1>social order and is hell bent on swooning a woman

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<v Speaker 1>to get access to her purse. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>you remember. A couple of years ago I did of

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<v Speaker 1>one of my many viral videos on TikTok. I shared

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<v Speaker 1>a story of my own financial abuse, and literally thousands

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<v Speaker 1>of women weighed in with their own story of men

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<v Speaker 1>love bombing them to steal money from them. It was awful.

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<v Speaker 1>They capitalize on women's empathy, so when they come with

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<v Speaker 1>their sad stories of whatever, women are so quick to

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<v Speaker 1>open their purse because they don't want to lose the relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>So when is the right time to tell a dude

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<v Speaker 1>how much money you make? Well, in my opinion, there's

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<v Speaker 1>three questions you have to ask yourself, and if you

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<v Speaker 1>can say yes to each of these questions, then I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's okay to tell him how much money you're making.

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<v Speaker 1>First question, will I still feel attracted to him if

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<v Speaker 1>I learn he makes substantially less money than me? Right,

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<v Speaker 1>because in the first few dates, you know they're being

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<v Speaker 1>all showy, they're picking up checks. But you have to

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<v Speaker 1>really question your own self about that. Second question, does

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<v Speaker 1>this guy have enough self esteem to handle the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that I might make more? Because there's research to show, sadly,

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<v Speaker 1>that when a woman makes more money than her husband,

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<v Speaker 1>he's more likely to cheat because apparently guys associate financial

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<v Speaker 1>value with manhood. So you have to really spend some

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<v Speaker 1>time getting to know if his self confidence is real

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<v Speaker 1>or not. And finally ask yourself this, do I deeply

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<v Speaker 1>trust him with this information? Do I really know his

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<v Speaker 1>values and his morals? Take some time, Take some time

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<v Speaker 1>before you divulge this information. Ladies, all right, when we

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<v Speaker 1>come back, Couples, especially young couples, are using technology in

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<v Speaker 1>their relationships a lot. Let's talk about the good, the bad,

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<v Speaker 1>and the ugly of using tech in your relationships. You

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<v Speaker 1>are listening to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on KFI

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<v Speaker 1>AM six forty were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

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<v Speaker 3>You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI

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<v Speaker 3>Am six forty.

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<v Speaker 1>I am six forty. You have Doctorrndy Walsh with you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yours pick the best music, Kaylas, I got it. I

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<v Speaker 1>never want to come back to the microphone because I'm

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<v Speaker 1>busy dancing. You know, producer Kayla a few weeks ago,

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<v Speaker 1>was dancing at my wedding. Did you like that playlist?

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<v Speaker 1>Julio did it.

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<v Speaker 2>That was an amazing playlist. That was an amazing video

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<v Speaker 2>we got sent a few weeks later. I can't wait

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<v Speaker 2>for the redo of the wedding. Reata coming getting to desert.

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<v Speaker 1>You know that a wedding was fun when I start

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<v Speaker 1>getting calls from all the women of the wedding, meaning

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<v Speaker 1>my closest friends and colleagues who were guests, who said,

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<v Speaker 1>let's do a reunion in La of just the women

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<v Speaker 1>of the wedding. It's going to be a blo all

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<v Speaker 1>of a sudden, it's a potluck dinner, it's a dj

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<v Speaker 1>that we're all coming. I was so surprised. Some are

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<v Speaker 1>getting on planes and coming. Oh my god, your friends

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<v Speaker 1>are the best. It's going to be so much fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Who knew a wedding reunion? Two months later, just because

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<v Speaker 1>it was so much fun. Alrighty using technology in your

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<v Speaker 1>intimate relationships. Now, I have always said that text is

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<v Speaker 1>dangerous in relationships, especially if you're sharing really intimate stuff

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<v Speaker 1>that could potentially be misinterpreted, right, because a text is

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<v Speaker 1>like listening to your favorite band without the drummer or

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<v Speaker 1>the lead singer. You kind of got the riff going,

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<v Speaker 1>but it doesn't really have a beat or soul. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's what text is. It's missing vocal tone, body language,

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<v Speaker 1>facial expression, it's missing at all, and you've got to

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<v Speaker 1>decipher and read into those words. Well, even though I

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<v Speaker 1>have been saying this for a very long time, I

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<v Speaker 1>obviously it has been falling on deaf ears because young people,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly and I have daughters who are in that space,

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<v Speaker 1>use technology as their primary source of communication in their

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<v Speaker 1>intimate relationships. So let's talk about the good, the bad,

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<v Speaker 1>and the ugly. A new study just published in the journal,

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<v Speaker 1>yes it's an academic journal called Personal Relationships interviewed one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and twenty one people aged eighteen through twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>One hundred and twenty one is not a huge number.

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<v Speaker 1>I like studies that are thousands of people, but usually

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<v Speaker 1>studies that involve. Thousands of people are for port Internet studies,

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<v Speaker 1>so there's a lot of lying going on about who

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<v Speaker 1>people are, et cetera. These were real interviews, so you

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<v Speaker 1>get a lot more in information from that. So first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, here's a little reality check for everybody. Ninety

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<v Speaker 1>five percent of young adults text duh. Ninety percent use

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<v Speaker 1>social media to stay in touch. And get this, seventy

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<v Speaker 1>five percent of young adults use at least five different

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of social media. I don't even know that when

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<v Speaker 1>we forget. We got Instagram, we got TikTok, we got Snapchat,

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<v Speaker 1>we got YouTube. What's left Facebook? Oh, but young people

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<v Speaker 1>probably aren't using Facebook. Oh she's a little baby on Facebook?

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe like Reddit? Does that count as some of those

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<v Speaker 1>I love? Yeah? Twitter? Twitch? No? Oh? Twitter?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh YouTube?

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<v Speaker 1>Does that count? Yeah? I said YouTube? You said that?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, that Twitter. I won't even give it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a new name because I don't care. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think you should. You know what happened what so

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<v Speaker 1>I have not used that particular app, you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>one we're talking about. It just got a new name.

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<v Speaker 1>So I went on the other day when I was

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<v Speaker 1>watching Oh, I think it was at the Democratic National

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<v Speaker 1>you know, when they all got together that conference convention

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<v Speaker 1>there whatever, and when Kamala Harris's sister got up to talk,

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness, she was a dead ringer for that

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<v Speaker 1>female comedian, Rebecca Johnson. Have you ever seen Rebecca Johnson

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<v Speaker 1>do it? She's one that started off with that famous

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<v Speaker 1>nail salon, a bit that she did that went totally viral. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>they had the same cadence, the same mannerisms, And so

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<v Speaker 1>I tweeted, is it still called the tweet if I

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<v Speaker 1>ex died? I exed it. I don't get it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. I pulled up both of their accounts and

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<v Speaker 1>I said, don't you think blah blah blah. I can't

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<v Speaker 1>remember her sister's name now, is a dead ringer for

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<v Speaker 1>Rebecca Johnson. Angela Johnson, not Rebecca Angela Johnson, and look

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<v Speaker 1>her out. Make sure it is Angela Johnson. Think is

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<v Speaker 1>Angela Johnson? Anyway, it never got shown to anybody because

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<v Speaker 1>I used to be one of the people with the

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<v Speaker 1>blue checkm and Elon Mosk took away the blue check mark.

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<v Speaker 1>So now our tweets don't get they get seen by

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<v Speaker 1>zero people unless we pay him money. Every month. Oh, Wendy,

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<v Speaker 1>I know he were on Twitter. He did. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>weird thing anyway, but I digress. Okay, So let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the benefits of using text and other and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>talking on Snapchat or whatever to your lever. It can

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<v Speaker 1>be more efficient communication because it allows partners to stay

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<v Speaker 1>connected all day no matter where you are in the

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<v Speaker 1>world or if you're working whatever. You can shoot them

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<v Speaker 1>little text right. Also, younger people are using a wider

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<v Speaker 1>range of expressive language. I forgot about this part. They're

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<v Speaker 1>using mojis, videos, photos, memes, sending TikTok videos about how

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<v Speaker 1>they feel about the person. So technology is actually providing

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<v Speaker 1>young people with more ways to express their feelings. Also

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<v Speaker 1>another benefit, it's a way to initiate new relationships, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Because people are dming each other on social media to

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<v Speaker 1>meet each other. It can be a better way to

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<v Speaker 1>maintain long distance relationships. And it can be much easier

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<v Speaker 1>for young people because they're such scaredy cats to disclose

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<v Speaker 1>personal stuff. Right. There are people who will type something

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<v Speaker 1>before they can actually say it out loud, which is

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<v Speaker 1>bizarre to me because everything I type, I imagine someday

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<v Speaker 1>it might be read by a judge. I'm always like,

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<v Speaker 1>this is forever somewhere, it could be brought up.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, sometimes people forget that the Internet is like

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<v Speaker 2>a place that other people can see what you're posting,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know it's going to live there forever.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think people think about that. They don't think

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<v Speaker 1>about that, So therefore I say everything with my mouth

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<v Speaker 1>out loud to people's faces or on the radio whatever. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, there are some downsides to using technology in

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<v Speaker 1>your intimate relationships. I mentioned texting can be very impersonal.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes people are texting while they're distracted doing other things.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna say this. On the way here to work today,

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<v Speaker 1>I was on the one on one freeway and Julia

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<v Speaker 1>was driving, so I was a passenger and I got

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<v Speaker 1>to look at the drivers in the three cars on

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<v Speaker 1>my right as we passed them. All three dudes were

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<v Speaker 1>just swiping on their phone. Their phone was on the

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<v Speaker 1>steering wheel and they were swiping. I don't know, was

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<v Speaker 1>it Tinder, was it Instagram? They were swiping. Okay, police officers,

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<v Speaker 1>get on out there. They're all on the one on

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<v Speaker 1>one right now. Okay. Other downsides. Some young couples reported

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<v Speaker 1>that because there is text available, they feel pressured to

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<v Speaker 1>constantly communicate, and yes, they do misinterpret those texts because

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<v Speaker 1>they're misreading it. Also, if you're using social media to

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<v Speaker 1>let people know you like somebody by liking their pictures,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a lot less privacy. Intimacy should grow in privacy,

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<v Speaker 1>not in public. And also the big one meddling from outsiders.

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<v Speaker 1>You get comments from strangers that poor gymnasts there and

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<v Speaker 1>her husband being attacked online just because people didn't think

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<v Speaker 1>he's good enough for her or whatever. Whatever. You get

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<v Speaker 1>all those comments from strangers that you have to deal with.

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<v Speaker 1>And then also there are mate poachers lurking in your

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<v Speaker 1>dms who are quick to try to grab your mate.

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<v Speaker 1>Well you're not looking, so that's a downside. But anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>it's being used. So let's figure out how to do

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<v Speaker 1>it correctly. When we come back, how to break up

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<v Speaker 1>with somebody you're still in love with. Yeah, there could

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<v Speaker 1>be good reason too, I'll explain. You're listening to the

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Wendy Walsh Show and KFI AM six forty We

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<v Speaker 1>Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

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<v Speaker 3>You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI

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<v Speaker 3>AM six forty kfi am six forty.

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<v Speaker 1>You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Wendy Wells show producer Kylas.

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<v Speaker 2>Laughing at me, okay, because I chose that song.

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<v Speaker 1>Well.

415
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:49.759
<v Speaker 2>They sang very like why would you want to break up?

416
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:51.079
<v Speaker 2>When I love you so good? Wh would you want

417
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:52.880
<v Speaker 2>to break up? And then you were supposed to start talking,

418
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:54.519
<v Speaker 2>but we were all tangled up back here, so the

419
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:57.200
<v Speaker 2>rap started before you because usually you start.

420
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.279
<v Speaker 1>Talking back by the time the rap hits. But it

421
00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:01.759
<v Speaker 1>is a very good song. What had happened was I

422
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:07.319
<v Speaker 1>accidentally my roly chair had pulled on the cord of

423
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:11.000
<v Speaker 1>my headset and it had unplugged it. So that's why

424
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:12.799
<v Speaker 1>I was scrambling around on the floor. By the way,

425
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:14.519
<v Speaker 1>I am live on TikTok right now. If you want

426
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:16.200
<v Speaker 1>to come see this mess, you're welcome to come over

427
00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.839
<v Speaker 1>to my TikTok account at Dr Wendy Walsh at doctor

428
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Wendy Walsh. After this segment, I will be taking your

429
00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:28.799
<v Speaker 1>calls and answering your social media questions. The phone number

430
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.880
<v Speaker 1>for after this segment is one eight hundred and five

431
00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:35.000
<v Speaker 1>two zero one five three four. That's one eight hundred

432
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:37.640
<v Speaker 1>and five to two zero one KFI. But anyway, okay,

433
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:41.319
<v Speaker 1>I can relax. Now let's talk about how to break

434
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.039
<v Speaker 1>up with somebody who you still love. Now. I know

435
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:48.200
<v Speaker 1>that sounds counterintuitive, doesn't it. But let's think about that

436
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.960
<v Speaker 1>for a minute. Love is like a drug, and many

437
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.440
<v Speaker 1>people don't practice what I call what do I call it?

438
00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Intellectual love or rational love? You know, they sort of

439
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.720
<v Speaker 1>let the hormones take over. They're lovely hormones. Love is

440
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:06.920
<v Speaker 1>the best drug we have, I think. And so they

441
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.400
<v Speaker 1>will fall in love with somebody and then get deep

442
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:13.119
<v Speaker 1>into it and maybe even stay together for a period

443
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:15.559
<v Speaker 1>of time a year or two years, whatever, And then

444
00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:20.680
<v Speaker 1>they ask the life questions, Oh do you want to

445
00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:23.440
<v Speaker 1>have children? Oh? Where do you want to live in

446
00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.559
<v Speaker 1>your life? Oh what kind of career would you like

447
00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:29.720
<v Speaker 1>to have? Oh you don't want to work. You want

448
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.039
<v Speaker 1>to go camping for your whole life. You don't want

449
00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:35.799
<v Speaker 1>a house? Oh, oh dear. So what happens is some

450
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:40.240
<v Speaker 1>people fall deep into love and still realize that if

451
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:43.759
<v Speaker 1>they're going to meet their life goals, they have to

452
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:47.680
<v Speaker 1>break up with this person. And it can be particularly hard.

453
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.039
<v Speaker 1>Now I want you to know, and just by the way,

454
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.039
<v Speaker 1>I came up with this theory all by myself, so

455
00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:58.960
<v Speaker 1>take it for what it's worth. But I think every

456
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:05.319
<v Speaker 1>breakup as how many stages? About five stages. Okay, I

457
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.039
<v Speaker 1>see it happen, I've seen it, I've experienced it, I've

458
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:10.559
<v Speaker 1>felt it in my life. And here are the stages.

459
00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:15.480
<v Speaker 1>The first is contemplating contemplation, I'll get it out. Contemplation.

460
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:20.160
<v Speaker 1>That's when you're on the verge of breaking up. You

461
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:24.759
<v Speaker 1>kind of undergo a little cost benefit analysis, like, well,

462
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:26.680
<v Speaker 1>if I stay with this person, it's going to be

463
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.359
<v Speaker 1>this is going to happen. If I don't, maybe I

464
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.880
<v Speaker 1>could find someone better, or I can meet my life

465
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:36.599
<v Speaker 1>goals that they can't meet. What should I do? So

466
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:39.880
<v Speaker 1>it's this silent contemplation. Now this stage could go on

467
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:42.279
<v Speaker 1>for weeks, months, or years while you're trying to figure

468
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:48.200
<v Speaker 1>it out. But after that comes the confirmation stage. This

469
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:50.920
<v Speaker 1>is when you've made a decision to break up. But

470
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:53.319
<v Speaker 1>now you want to make sure you've made the right decision.

471
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:56.400
<v Speaker 1>So what you do is you start to tell your

472
00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:02.359
<v Speaker 1>closest friends. Now you pick friends unconsciously. It's usually unconscious

473
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:07.920
<v Speaker 1>who will confirm your feelings. So you're not going to

474
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.559
<v Speaker 1>go to your boyfriend's sister who's going to go, no,

475
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:14.319
<v Speaker 1>don't leave my brother, you'll hurt him. You're going to

476
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:16.759
<v Speaker 1>go to your bestie who never really liked him anyway,

477
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:18.920
<v Speaker 1>and you're going to say, hey, you know, I'm really

478
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:21.160
<v Speaker 1>thinking it's time to break up, and she's going to go,

479
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:24.039
<v Speaker 1>you know what, Let's do a girl's weekend, a wine weekend,

480
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:25.759
<v Speaker 1>and then we'll talk about it. This is great, right,

481
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:30.240
<v Speaker 1>So that's stage two, where you get confirmation from people

482
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:34.880
<v Speaker 1>who you know will confirm you. Then you got to

483
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:37.839
<v Speaker 1>do a little bit of testing to see if being

484
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:40.559
<v Speaker 1>a single person is really going to work out for you.

485
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:44.640
<v Speaker 1>That means, before you end the relationship, you're going to quietly,

486
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:48.359
<v Speaker 1>without really breaking the rules, you're going to test your

487
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.720
<v Speaker 1>value in the mating marketplace. Uh huh. And you're either

488
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.680
<v Speaker 1>going to do it by just going innocently out with

489
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:58.119
<v Speaker 1>single friends, whether you're a guy or girl. You're going

490
00:27:58.160 --> 00:27:59.599
<v Speaker 1>to go out with same sex friends for a night

491
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:01.799
<v Speaker 1>on the tap and see if you get any reaction,

492
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:05.759
<v Speaker 1>just test it out, or you don't do anything. You

493
00:28:05.799 --> 00:28:09.000
<v Speaker 1>just observe what it would be like, or you might,

494
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:12.440
<v Speaker 1>especially if you're a woman, post some kind of provocative

495
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:16.640
<v Speaker 1>picture on Instagram and see the reaction. See if you

496
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:21.039
<v Speaker 1>get any dms from people right, or maybe you will

497
00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:23.880
<v Speaker 1>even reach out to one of your backup mates. And

498
00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:26.640
<v Speaker 1>if you do not have a backup mate, let me explain.

499
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:30.519
<v Speaker 1>Evolutionary psychologists say that almost every human has a backup mate.

500
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:32.839
<v Speaker 1>These are people that we think about, like maybe it's

501
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:35.440
<v Speaker 1>a coworker or maybe somebody we flirt with online that

502
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:37.039
<v Speaker 1>we think, you know, if it didn't work out with

503
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:40.480
<v Speaker 1>my person, maybe maybe it could work out with that person.

504
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.920
<v Speaker 1>So maybe you reach out to that backup mate. Again,

505
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:47.960
<v Speaker 1>don't cross any lines, you don't break any rules. You

506
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.720
<v Speaker 1>just kind of test the waters a little bit. So

507
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.799
<v Speaker 1>if you've got confirmation from your friends, if you've tested

508
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:58.440
<v Speaker 1>the mating marketplace, it looks like the coast is clear.

509
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Things are going to be fine. Then comes the declaration phase,

510
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:06.200
<v Speaker 1>and this is where you declare your intention to end

511
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.319
<v Speaker 1>the relationship. Now, depending on the length of that relationship,

512
00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:12.519
<v Speaker 1>your living arrangements, if there are children involved, et cetera.

513
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:17.319
<v Speaker 1>These conversations may involve a couple's therapists. They may involve

514
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:20.039
<v Speaker 1>some back and forth and breaking up and getting back together.

515
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:24.440
<v Speaker 1>There's that stage, right, never ever, ever getting back together.

516
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:27.519
<v Speaker 1>But then you do, and then stage five is the

517
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:32.799
<v Speaker 1>final breakup, and that's you know, some psychological strategies. There's

518
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:35.359
<v Speaker 1>actually research to show that if you can only think

519
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:37.720
<v Speaker 1>of the bad in your ex it's easier to get

520
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:39.640
<v Speaker 1>over them. So you spend a lot of time not

521
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:42.160
<v Speaker 1>looking back with rose colored glasses, but looking back with

522
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:47.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm so glad I'm not there, right, And you might

523
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:51.799
<v Speaker 1>go completely no contact because having triggers of them reminds

524
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.759
<v Speaker 1>you and it's harder to get over. Now here's the problem.

525
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:59.000
<v Speaker 1>If you're really still in love with somebody, all these

526
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:04.839
<v Speaker 1>stages of a break up become elongated, right, so, because

527
00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:07.680
<v Speaker 1>you're really not one hundred percent sure. And the biggest

528
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.119
<v Speaker 1>mistake that people make when they're trying to break up

529
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:14.759
<v Speaker 1>with a partner who they're still in love with is

530
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:18.480
<v Speaker 1>they say they do one of two things. They Others say,

531
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:20.920
<v Speaker 1>let's just take a break. I just need a break.

532
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:24.640
<v Speaker 1>Whenever anybody writes to me and says my partner wants

533
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:27.880
<v Speaker 1>to take a break, what does this mean, I always

534
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:31.200
<v Speaker 1>say they're breaking up with you. They want to test

535
00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:33.960
<v Speaker 1>their value on the mating marketplace, and if it doesn't

536
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:35.559
<v Speaker 1>go well, they want to know they can come back

537
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:38.279
<v Speaker 1>to you. There's no such thing as let's just take

538
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:41.960
<v Speaker 1>a break. The other thing people will do if they

539
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.119
<v Speaker 1>are still in love but need to break up because

540
00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:47.920
<v Speaker 1>of long term goals is they will say, let's convert

541
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:51.039
<v Speaker 1>this to a friendship. I think we should just be friends.

542
00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:57.160
<v Speaker 1>This never works out, It prolongs the breakup. You can't

543
00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:01.720
<v Speaker 1>just flip a switch, especially if your feelings are so strong. Right, well,

544
00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:03.799
<v Speaker 1>how do you do that? On TikTok? Did you see

545
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:05.839
<v Speaker 1>what happened? Oh you didn't see some of the made

546
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:07.680
<v Speaker 1>hands like this, but it showed up like in the

547
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.880
<v Speaker 1>whole screen. Oh that's cool. Yeah, I don't know how

548
00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:11.759
<v Speaker 1>to do that. I need to learn. Someone's gonna have

549
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:18.680
<v Speaker 1>to tell me anyway, So how can The biggest question

550
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.000
<v Speaker 1>I get asked, though, is in that stage where people

551
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.640
<v Speaker 1>are in their contemplation stage. They will write to people

552
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:28.519
<v Speaker 1>like me in the DMS and they will say.

553
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:28.960
<v Speaker 3>How do you know?

554
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:32.799
<v Speaker 1>How do you know? You know what? You never know?

555
00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:36.160
<v Speaker 1>But I will tell you this that there is nothing

556
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:40.519
<v Speaker 1>more painful in life than sitting on the fence. For

557
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:44.079
<v Speaker 1>any decision that you have to make, you have to

558
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.960
<v Speaker 1>jump right in and get committed to that decision. I

559
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:50.400
<v Speaker 1>remember reading some research. We talked about it on the

560
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:54.839
<v Speaker 1>show before producer Kayla. It was like these researchers they

561
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:56.680
<v Speaker 1>interview people who are on the verge of a breakup,

562
00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:00.359
<v Speaker 1>and they said they randomly divided them into two groups.

563
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:04.319
<v Speaker 1>And one group they said, you must stay together for

564
00:32:04.359 --> 00:32:06.960
<v Speaker 1>one more year, like you must clearly stay together for

565
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:08.839
<v Speaker 1>one more year. And the other group they said you

566
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:12.039
<v Speaker 1>must break up right away. And they caught up with

567
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:14.920
<v Speaker 1>them like a year later. Guess what they found out

568
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:19.759
<v Speaker 1>what the people The people who broke up were happier. Really,

569
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:22.799
<v Speaker 1>it just prolongs. If you're having thoughts of breaking up,

570
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:27.119
<v Speaker 1>then you know you shouldn't break up. You should break up,

571
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:29.680
<v Speaker 1>like just jump in if you're having If I believe

572
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:32.000
<v Speaker 1>change is good, I agree change is good. Not that

573
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:33.880
<v Speaker 1>you should throw I mean there are things to consider.

574
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:36.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm a big proponent of staying together for

575
00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:39.799
<v Speaker 1>the children. There's research to show that that's a good thing.

576
00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:43.599
<v Speaker 1>It's good for kids' health. Revolving Dora of parental figures

577
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:46.640
<v Speaker 1>not good for kids at all. So there are other

578
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:52.599
<v Speaker 1>extenuated circumstances. Okay, what else did I want to say?

579
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.400
<v Speaker 1>About that, Oh, the phone number. When we come back,

580
00:32:55.480 --> 00:32:58.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to be answering your relationship questions. Remember I'm

581
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:00.519
<v Speaker 1>not a therapist. I'm a psychology professor. But I've written

582
00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:04.119
<v Speaker 1>three books on relationships, did a dissertation on attachment theory,

583
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:07.119
<v Speaker 1>and i have a lot of life wisdom. Give us

584
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:09.559
<v Speaker 1>a call. The numbers one eight hundred five two zero

585
00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:13.240
<v Speaker 1>one five three four. That's one eight hundred five two

586
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.680
<v Speaker 1>zero one KFI. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls

587
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Show on KFI AM six forty. Were live everywhere on

588
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:25.000
<v Speaker 1>the iHeartRadio app. You've been listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh.

589
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:27.279
<v Speaker 1>You can always hear us live on KFI AM six

590
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:30.359
<v Speaker 1>forty from seven to nine pm on Sunday and anytime

591
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:32.680
<v Speaker 1>on demand on the iHeartRadio app.
