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Speaker 4: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 4: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 4: written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK every
Speaker 4: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 4: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 4: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. In January
Speaker 4: of nineteen ninety five, seventeen year old Vizette Martinez met
Speaker 4: Grammy winning musician and record producer R Kelly at a
Speaker 4: venture mall in Florida where he was performing. At first,
Speaker 4: It's seemed that her hopes of becoming a professional singer
Speaker 4: were about to come true when he offered to help
Speaker 4: boost her career. However, this mentorship quickly turned into sexual grooming,
Speaker 4: leading to years of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. After
Speaker 4: struggling to free herself of the relationship and rebuild on
Speaker 4: her own Lyzette's successful new life far away from the
Speaker 4: entertainment industry was interrupted in twenty seventeen by allegations against R.
Speaker 4: Kelly by other women This led to her coming forward
Speaker 4: to the authorities with their own history of abuse by
Speaker 4: the Music Icon. In January twenty nineteen, she participated with
Speaker 4: other survivors in a documentary series with Lifetime called Surviving R.
Speaker 5: Kelly. It should have been a healing and left them
Speaker 5: feeling abandoned and fearful for their lives. In August twenty
Speaker 5: twenty one, Kelly went on trial in New York on
Speaker 5: racketeering and sex trafficking charges, who was found guilt fee
Speaker 5: of all charges. The book that we're featuring this evening
Speaker 5: is Jane Doe number nine, How I Survived R. Kelly,
Speaker 5: with my special guest, author, survivor and activist Lizette Martinez.
Speaker 5: Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for
Speaker 5: this interview. Lizette Martinez, Thank you, Hi, thank you for
Speaker 5: having me. Thank you so much. This is a remarkable
Speaker 5: book and a remarkable window into something that we just
Speaker 5: we only think that we may understand. So congratulations on
Speaker 5: this book. Before we even start, let's get to.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 5: Say. At seventeen, your family moves to Miami Beach and
Speaker 5: you're a senior in high school. Tell us about your
Speaker 5: best friend, Michelle, but more importantly, tell us about your
Speaker 5: what kind of family you come from, and what's going
Speaker 5: on at that time, and just tell us about your
Speaker 5: background and your family's backgrounds.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I'm from originally from New York. We're Puerto Ricans.
Speaker 2: We moved to Miami Beach from Hollywood, so that was
Speaker 2: like the third high school that I had gone to,
Speaker 2: which was kind of tough. You know, it was moving
Speaker 2: around a lot. Things weren't very stable at home. My
Speaker 2: parents were very hard working but having a really rough time.
Speaker 2: There was some situations going on at home. And I
Speaker 2: only say this so that the readers and your listeners
Speaker 2: can understand where my head space was at during that time.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of commotion going on in the home,
Speaker 2: but wonderful parents. They tried their best. We moved to
Speaker 2: Miami from a big house in Hollywood till to a
Speaker 2: little tiny studio where it was my brother, my younger brother,
Speaker 2: my stepfather, and my mom and myself living in a
Speaker 2: one room apartment. So I was really, you know, a
Speaker 2: kid that was kind of like embarrassed. I couldn't bring
Speaker 2: really friends over and I just really wanted to be
Speaker 2: out of the house. Everyone was in each other's hair,
Speaker 2: It was a typical you know, it was a typical family.
Speaker 2: We we were happy. You know, my mom struggled a
Speaker 2: bit with with alcohol and so sometimes there were fights
Speaker 2: in the house. She's a phenomenal woman, but you know,
Speaker 2: there were things going on that I really didn't want
Speaker 2: to be around. My best friend Michelle. We've been friends
Speaker 2: for since we were twelve years old, and she was
Speaker 2: like a mother to me, and I tried to spend
Speaker 2: as much time out of my house so I would always,
Speaker 2: you know, hang out with her. When we were seventeen,
Speaker 2: when I moved back to Miami and we were together again.
Speaker 2: So it was a good time. Despite all that that
Speaker 2: was going on, I had my best friend who was
Speaker 2: very strong and still to this day very strong.
Speaker 5: You talk about you were in high school, but you
Speaker 5: talked a little bit later in the book. But I
Speaker 5: think we should talk about it now in terms of
Speaker 5: did you experience any abuse when you were young? Before
Speaker 5: we talk about that abuse, or after we talk about
Speaker 5: that abuse, we can talk about what your aspirations were,
Speaker 5: what you had in mind for a career in your life.
Speaker 2: Even as a yes, I mean I always love you know.
Speaker 2: Linda rods Stamp Bette Midler Reata Franklin. I love music.
Speaker 2: My dad is a lot and percussionist and so music,
Speaker 2: you know, I was always around music. His cousin was
Speaker 2: a very famous drummer who played with Dizzy Gillespie and
Speaker 2: all these jazz giants. And my mother was an Acro
Speaker 2: Cuban dancer. So music was always around. And the arts,
Speaker 2: you know, my uncle was an actor and and so
Speaker 2: I had a lot of dreams. I really wanted to
Speaker 2: be a performer. I wanted to be like Gloria Stefan,
Speaker 2: you know, at that age, I just loved her so much,
Speaker 2: and I had a great voice, and so I really
Speaker 2: thought that I could make it. You know, I had
Speaker 2: a lot of dreams. Despite all the turmoil and like
Speaker 2: you said, the abuse and stuff that happened to me
Speaker 2: at a young age, I saw myself being different. I
Speaker 2: felt different. I felt that I could make it with
Speaker 2: anything that I wanted to.
Speaker 5: You know, right, what about that abuse when you were young?
Speaker 5: What are these just to not dwell on these events,
Speaker 5: but what are the kind of pivotal events that people
Speaker 5: abused you when you were young?
Speaker 2: You know, A close family friend when I was around
Speaker 2: six or seven, and then it happened again with a babysitter,
Speaker 2: and then it happened again with another family friend. So
Speaker 2: I had already experienced some abuse there, sexual abuse, and
Speaker 2: it marked me, you know, but I still was kind
Speaker 2: of a happy kid despite that. You know, my mom
Speaker 2: kind of like she knew, she knew what happened, and
Speaker 2: she defended me. So I was okay, you know, I
Speaker 2: thought I was okay.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Now it's January nineteen ninety five, like we say
Speaker 5: in the introduction, and you're seventeen years old and you're
Speaker 5: with your bestie Michelle, and you're at the said Adventure
Speaker 5: mall in Florida. So who's there with you? And what
Speaker 5: are you guys doing? And how's it come to be
Speaker 5: that you even recognized R Kelly?
Speaker 2: So it was just a typical day, you know, it
Speaker 2: was January, so I think we had like a Pepperriri
Speaker 2: that day. So I asked my mom to go to
Speaker 2: the mall Aventeer Mall and aventurf Florida, which is Miami,
Speaker 2: and she allowed me to and it was like four
Speaker 2: of us and my bestie was actually working at a
Speaker 2: clothing store, so we said, let's go visit Michelle and
Speaker 2: that's what we did. And we're just walking around, just
Speaker 2: teenage kids, you know, your windows, shopping and and then
Speaker 2: I just see this this person with a with a
Speaker 2: with a It was a very tall man, seven feet
Speaker 2: I and and a bunch of other guys, so it
Speaker 2: was like an entourage, and he looked very important. But
Speaker 2: I had gone to and a concert a year before
Speaker 2: of R. Kelly's because I was in a singing group,
Speaker 2: an R and B group, and the manager wanted us
Speaker 2: to go see Aliyah. Aliah never made it to the concert,
Speaker 2: so that's how I knew of him. I recognized him
Speaker 2: because we were very close to the stage and I
Speaker 2: got a really good look at him. I wasn't really
Speaker 2: a fan of that type of music. It was a
Speaker 2: like really hypersexual and my parents wouldn't like that, you know,
Speaker 2: so I didn't really care for it. But I he
Speaker 2: was a giant already in the world of music, you know.
Speaker 2: He was a great producer, and I loved Aliyah's music.
Speaker 2: So I recognized him right away, and I said to
Speaker 2: my friend, that's I think that's R. Kelly. That looks
Speaker 2: like R Kelly.
Speaker 5: That's R.
Speaker 2: Kelly. And she said, why would you be at the
Speaker 2: mall and I said, I just laughed. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess he's at the mall. And he heard me
Speaker 2: and turned around and came straight up to me and
Speaker 2: gave me a big old hug and asked me my
Speaker 2: a like first CUP was like, oh, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm Robert, And then it was like how do you?
Speaker 2: What school do you go to? You know, these questions,
Speaker 2: and then we said goodbye, and he said he was
Speaker 2: recording an album. I told him I was a singer
Speaker 2: right away. I said I'm an inspiring singer and I'm
Speaker 2: writing music. And he was like, oh, really, I'm working
Speaker 2: at the studio. You know, maybe I can help you.
Speaker 2: And I was like really, like son, you know, like
Speaker 2: here it is. My dream's about to come true. And
Speaker 2: he just said goodbye, and I said good aye, a
Speaker 2: nice meeting you. And I kind of just left it
Speaker 2: like that, and then his bodyguard returned like a few
Speaker 2: minutes later with a piece of paper with his with
Speaker 2: Robert's phone number on it and said, oh, R Kelly
Speaker 2: would like you to call him. And I just took
Speaker 2: the paper and I was just like shocked.
Speaker 5: And when Michelle came out, m h, what did Michelle. Yeah,
Speaker 5: what did Michelle have to say about this? What did
Speaker 5: she advise?
Speaker 2: Well, she she was uh, she said, what's going on?
Speaker 2: And she came off out of work and I just
Speaker 2: told her what happened and she goes, yeah, I saw,
Speaker 2: and she says, maybe you should call him. This could
Speaker 2: be your big break. You know, he helped Aliyah, And
Speaker 2: that's really what we thought, you know, we just had
Speaker 2: that in our minds, not realizing he was a creditor,
Speaker 2: you know, at that point. So then we went to
Speaker 2: meet him after a few hours later.
Speaker 5: You talk about that. Let's tell our audience about that,
Speaker 5: because it's just odd and it sets the stage for
Speaker 5: how your relationship really is, despite what you might have
Speaker 5: wanted it to be, but what it really is. So
Speaker 5: he calls you and says to meet you at this
Speaker 5: meet them at the Sports Authority. So tell us about this,
Speaker 5: this date, this first interaction with him.
Speaker 2: So we get ready, we get dressed, We have a
Speaker 2: friend drive us to the Sports Authority, which I guess
Speaker 2: they were shopping there, which is near right across from
Speaker 2: the Averton Mall. And so I arrived. I was so nervous.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what was happening. But you know, I
Speaker 2: was going to give him an all because I really
Speaker 2: wanted to help my family more than anything. I also, like,
Speaker 2: I really wanted to help my family get out of
Speaker 2: the situation that they were in, and so I felt
Speaker 2: like if I could make music and get a recording contract,
Speaker 2: everyone's problems would be solved, you know. So I so
Speaker 2: we went to meet him, and it was like a
Speaker 2: bunch of guys and Aliah's uncle, Barry Hankerson was there.
Speaker 2: So we felt like, you know, we knew about We
Speaker 2: spoke about the rumors, Michelle and I about him and Aliyah,
Speaker 2: but back then there was on social media. They put
Speaker 2: us to sleep very quickly. You know, they put that
Speaker 2: to bed very quickly. I mean, he was making a
Speaker 2: lot of money for a lot of really important people,
Speaker 2: so that went away quickly, you know what I mean. So,
Speaker 2: and I say this because when we when we sat down,
Speaker 2: Michelle asked him right away, did you marry Aliah? I
Speaker 2: almost died because it was like she's so old, you know,
Speaker 2: But that was the right question. I mean, she was right,
Speaker 2: you know, And he said, don't believe everything you hear,
Speaker 2: and then he introduced us to Barry as Aliah's uncle.
Speaker 2: So we said, okay, well, I mean, why would her
Speaker 2: uncle be with him managing him if he did that
Speaker 2: to his knee? So that is the logic in my mind,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like, why would anyone still be,
Speaker 2: you know, working with this person if that was true.
Speaker 2: So we just said okay, m hmm.
Speaker 5: Yeah. You know what I thought was just interesting and
Speaker 5: fascinating and sort of just very cinematic, was you go
Speaker 5: into this outback steakhouse. Again, not a super fancy place,
Speaker 5: but you go in there and your friends from high
Speaker 5: school are working in there and quizzing you on what
Speaker 5: you're even doing in there. They can't believe the superstar
Speaker 5: in a restaurant.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, they couldn't believe it. Everyone was a big
Speaker 2: deal and and yeah it was a simple restaurant, you know,
Speaker 2: and everyone was just like, what are you guys doing here?
Speaker 2: And we're just like Michelle tells them shut up and
Speaker 2: keeps walking. It's funny. I mean, the book is the
Speaker 2: book is something else.
Speaker 5: Right right now? He talks about going to the studio
Speaker 5: right away. Do you guys go to the studio right away?
Speaker 5: And if so, what happens? Tell us about that incredible.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so we sat down and then I sang
Speaker 2: for them and everyone clapped and Barry Hankerson said, oh,
Speaker 2: you did so well and you're a really good singer.
Speaker 2: Let's go to the studio, Robert said. So we head
Speaker 2: to the studio, and I'm like, we're really going to
Speaker 2: the studio, you know, like it just seems crazy and
Speaker 2: so off the wall bizarre, like this is really happening.
Speaker 2: I mean, I was so excited. But during the dinner,
Speaker 2: I want them to know that he put his hand
Speaker 2: on my on my leg, and that was kind of
Speaker 2: like wet red flag a little bit. It brought me
Speaker 2: back to like what had happened to me as a
Speaker 2: child at that moment. But then I was like, I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna you know, I just put his hand aside,
Speaker 2: and he didn't, you know, he just stopped. So I
Speaker 2: just felt like, Okay, let's just keep going and I'm
Speaker 2: with my best friend and nothing's gonna happen to me.
Speaker 2: Let's just see what happened.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: So we get to the studio, right. So we get
Speaker 2: to the studio and right away they separate Michelle and I.
Speaker 2: They took her to another room where there was a
Speaker 2: TV and pool tables her his cousin was talking to her.
Speaker 2: And then Robert took me into the studio room and
Speaker 2: he started playing music and then I started singing, and
Speaker 2: then there was a kiss out of nowhere, which was
Speaker 2: I didn't kiss back. I just froze, and then he said, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, and and then he just went back to
Speaker 2: his music stuff. And then I said, I think it's
Speaker 2: time for me to go home. And Michelle came out
Speaker 2: and she was very upset that she wasn't like, you know,
Speaker 2: they rushed her away from me, right, And when we
Speaker 2: got home, she said, I don't know about it. You know,
Speaker 2: he's kind of creepy. And I hadn't even told her
Speaker 2: about the hand or the kiss yet, and right, yeah,
Speaker 2: so that was the beginning.
Speaker 5: You say about the next day he calls and he
Speaker 5: says I want you to come back, or he calls
Speaker 5: you later and says I want you to come back tomorrow.
Speaker 5: You got a swimsuit, you know how to swim, you
Speaker 5: can teach me. And then of course you just bring
Speaker 5: your swimsuit and he just watches you right, right, And his.
Speaker 2: Thing was I don't swim, because first it was let
Speaker 2: me teach you, and then it was I don't swim
Speaker 2: because a friend of his had drowned when they were kids,
Speaker 2: and so I I don't know. It was really really weird,
Speaker 2: but it was a strange time, you know, thinking back
Speaker 2: as an adult, he was just a total predator, you know,
Speaker 2: but he was acting like he was juveil like a kid,
Speaker 2: you know, so you kind of feel like you're with
Speaker 2: hanging out with someone that you would be hanging out
Speaker 2: from high school, like a high school senior. It's so weird,
Speaker 2: you know, at times he's like a predator and then
Speaker 2: the other times he's just like a kid. Which I
Speaker 2: don't understand that he.
Speaker 5: Knew you had a curfew, so he knew you were
Speaker 5: in high school. He also you said, hey, I got
Speaker 5: a curfew and I got to go. So what was
Speaker 5: the situation in terms of letting your parents know about
Speaker 5: this and how did he end up communicating with you
Speaker 5: to be able to continue seeing you?
Speaker 2: Well, I spent like, well, there was one time where
Speaker 2: he called right when I met him, Like you're saying,
Speaker 2: at that time, he called my house. Well, we didn't
Speaker 2: have a landline, we didn't we didn't have a phone line.
Speaker 2: The woman that owned the house, that lived in the
Speaker 2: other half of the house did and somehow, some way
Speaker 2: he got the phone number. I don't even know how,
Speaker 2: but he called and my parents, Yeah, it was because
Speaker 2: I was never allowed to give the number out and
Speaker 2: I would never I would just be in trouble, you know.
Speaker 2: So he called and said to the woman, I would
Speaker 2: like to be soilicette, and she said she cannot receive
Speaker 2: phone calls here and hung up apparently, so I don't
Speaker 2: know how he got that number. It's really weird. But
Speaker 2: then he called Michelle's house and that's how I got
Speaker 2: the information from him, or I got to speak to him,
Speaker 2: because she would give me the messages at school. She
Speaker 2: would beat me, and that's how we communicated. My parents
Speaker 2: had no idea you know, what was going on whatsoever?
Speaker 5: Mm hmm. When did you tell him that he needed
Speaker 5: to talk to your parents to be able to really
Speaker 5: be able to work with you? Oh?
Speaker 2: Right away, right right away. We spoke about my parents
Speaker 2: and his answer to me was, you know his during
Speaker 2: the dinner. During the dinner we spoke about my parents,
Speaker 2: where I said to him, you know, my parents are
Speaker 2: very strict. They don't really like your kind of music,
Speaker 2: and he said, well, your your parents, it's not for
Speaker 2: your parents, And right then and there, I knew he
Speaker 2: was like, that's going to be a weird meeting. But
Speaker 2: you know, when we spoke about my parents and meeting
Speaker 2: my parents, he would always say yeah, yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 2: then put it off or say that my parents are
Speaker 2: not going to understand him, that my friends are going
Speaker 2: to be very jealous of me. So he was slowly
Speaker 2: there grooming me to start letting people go in my
Speaker 2: life or to become isolated. You know, he was isolating
Speaker 2: me very early on.
Speaker 5: Right when you're in the studio and you do offer
Speaker 5: some input, thinking that you're collaborating or you're working together
Speaker 5: or you're working on material, what kind of behavior does
Speaker 5: he exhibit?
Speaker 2: Well, he he doesn't read or write. And I didn't
Speaker 2: know that. So I don't think any really, anyone really
Speaker 2: knew that. I mean, we had an idea that something
Speaker 2: was wrong, but because of the way he was formulating
Speaker 2: his sentences and stuff, so he sang a line and
Speaker 2: it made absolutely no sense. So I said, you know,
Speaker 2: the engineer looked at me. Everyone looked at each other
Speaker 2: like okay, and they looked scared. I didn't know why
Speaker 2: they were afraid, you know, they looked like they were
Speaker 2: afraid to say something. I mean, like really scared. So
Speaker 2: I just said, well, this is the way you say it,
Speaker 2: and this this is the proper way of thing. And
Speaker 2: he just humiliated me, berated me, yelled at me, said oh,
Speaker 2: are you trying to get some worlds? He's off of me.
Speaker 2: And that was the first time that I saw that other,
Speaker 2: real nasty side of him. And after he did that
Speaker 2: to me, he later came back and to sit down
Speaker 2: next to me. I mean, I was in tears. I
Speaker 2: hid tochoose a bathroom and just get myself together because
Speaker 2: I just felt so awful here. It is someone that
Speaker 2: I want to mentor me and they're treating me like this.
Speaker 2: You know, we were collaborating and that was about it,
Speaker 2: you know. And so after that he sat down with
Speaker 2: me and starts with the talking about his mother and
Speaker 2: how she passed away and how close they were and
Speaker 2: starts crying. So I think, like, if it's typical abuser,
Speaker 2: you know, like daberat you, they humiliate you'll hit you,
Speaker 2: they'll you know, emotionally abuse you, and then want sympathy.
Speaker 2: And that's basically how that situation was, and I was
Speaker 2: just like, you know, I kind of like I saw
Speaker 2: these behaviors around me prior to meeting him, and it's
Speaker 2: like a pattern in life. Start learning these behaviors and
Speaker 2: start accepting them, because that's just the way you think
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 5: You also experience a couple times when you talk to
Speaker 5: his cousin mac Or. There was a time when you
Speaker 5: were in the studio and he was working with a
Speaker 5: rapper and you just exchanged words. You just had a
Speaker 5: brief conversation. What does he do when he takes you aside?
Speaker 5: What does he have to say to you about it?
Speaker 5: About this?
Speaker 4: Well, he.
Speaker 2: Did not like me to even look at another man
Speaker 2: around him if we were sitting. I mean, it was
Speaker 2: all men. I was not allowed to bring us altrin
Speaker 2: with me, and so I just laughed at something and
Speaker 2: he just took me out inside and just hit me
Speaker 2: and just totally abused me and embarrassed me. In this.
Speaker 5: You know, this dream that you have of being a
Speaker 5: singing star. Now you meet R. Kelly, You're actually in
Speaker 5: the studio, you are working with him on some material,
Speaker 5: but this relationship is not consistent and so but at
Speaker 5: the same time, you are seventeen years old. You're inexperienced
Speaker 5: in relationships pretty well, and you're a virgin and this
Speaker 5: man is twenty eight years old in terms of twenty
Speaker 5: seventh for me. But yeah, in terms of in terms
Speaker 5: of your experience, in terms of what you were looking
Speaker 5: for in a relationship. You're yearning for love in a
Speaker 5: dedicated relationship. What does R. Kelly give you.
Speaker 2: A lot of manipulation, control, mental abuse, humiliation, And you
Speaker 2: know this wasn't a relationship. This I was a young
Speaker 2: girl who was, like you said, extremely inexperienced with a
Speaker 2: lot of things, especially males, and I was a virgin
Speaker 2: and he just set up my life and not in
Speaker 2: a good way. I just was exposed to so many
Speaker 2: things that I really shouldn't have been exposed to.
Speaker 5: The thing is you have this where you go back
Speaker 5: to Miami, your living conditions, even though you move, you
Speaker 5: move in with your uncle, you your your aunt Carmen.
Speaker 2: New York.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you do move to different locales and each
Speaker 5: time he draws you back to he always wants you
Speaker 5: to come back to Chicago. And you write that he
Speaker 5: doesn't get you to come to as many homes. It's
Speaker 5: to a hotel, room. No, what's the typical what's the
Speaker 5: typical visit to Chicago? Despite what he says is going
Speaker 5: to happen when you get to Chicago, what's the typical visit?
Speaker 2: Like, so the typical visit was, you know, I turned eighteen,
Speaker 2: and that's when I could start traveling. I guess in
Speaker 2: his you know, legally I never traveled under age, but
Speaker 2: once graduated, once I moved to New York City with
Speaker 2: my aunt Carmen, I was able to do as I
Speaker 2: you know, I wanted to and and still thinking that
Speaker 2: we were going to keep continuing nuke working on music,
Speaker 2: but it just turned into something like totally horrible, Like
Speaker 2: you read a typical thing. Typical trip was I get there?
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 2: I thought he was going to be picking me up
Speaker 2: or sn someone that I know to pick me up.
Speaker 2: Instead there's a stranger there a car and you know,
Speaker 2: when you're that age, you're like, oh wow, you're just
Speaker 2: a limo. But I felt like, what is this? I
Speaker 2: just didn't feel right, and it was I would check
Speaker 2: into a hotel. I thought I was going to go
Speaker 2: to the home, his apartment, the studio and you know,
Speaker 2: be around him, and and it wasn't like that. I
Speaker 2: was really like a sex lely. I mean literally, he
Speaker 2: turned me into that. That's what it was. He would
Speaker 2: come in, do what he did, abuse me, humiliate me
Speaker 2: most times, drag me down a hallway, sometimes leave me
Speaker 2: there without any credit card for food, stuck in a
Speaker 2: hotel and just there for sex.
Speaker 5: When you get the gumption to disagree with him, what
Speaker 5: to say on the phone, when you don't answer his
Speaker 5: calls or don't submit to his whims, how does he react?
Speaker 2: He he would abandon me. He wouldn't. He would say, Okay,
Speaker 2: you want to be like that, that's fine, and then
Speaker 2: he would disappear again for like another week. One time
Speaker 2: he came in and we had a big fight about him,
Speaker 2: the car being downstairs, and me not knowing anything about him,
Speaker 2: him not being communicating with me, me not being able
Speaker 2: to leave the hotel. I'm just like a prisoner in there.
Speaker 2: And he dragged he dragged me down the hallway. And
Speaker 2: when security came upstairs, he was behind the door and
Speaker 2: he was looking at me, and I could feel him
Speaker 2: looking at me. I looked behind, I looked at him,
Speaker 2: and he was just said, you better not say anything
Speaker 2: like And the security guard said Are you okay? And
Speaker 2: I said yes, And then he said I don't think
Speaker 2: you're okay. Are you sure? And I said yes, I am,
Speaker 2: and I just closed the door. Yeah, that's uh, that
Speaker 2: was a horrible day. He was punishing me.
Speaker 5: Mm hmm. Now what's the situation in terms of birth
Speaker 5: control or condoms or protection or any kind of planning.
Speaker 2: For There was never any protection. He doesn't believe in that.
Speaker 2: He never used it, not the first time when I
Speaker 2: was on the uh, when I when they gave me
Speaker 2: alcohol and the sexual saw happened. So I ended up,
Speaker 2: you know, having a being pregnant, and I had a
Speaker 2: miscarriage by myself in the room, and he was nowhere
Speaker 2: to be found. I mean, he clearly, he made it
Speaker 2: very clear if you do that, you're going to ruin
Speaker 2: your life. Then you're going to ruin your career. He
Speaker 2: was not at all sympathetic after O before it was,
Speaker 2: you know, my fault. And what he said was I
Speaker 2: don't like girls that I don't like pregnant girls, and
Speaker 2: I don't I don't like women that have children.
Speaker 5: Yeah, incredible. He also said to you, you ruined your body,
Speaker 5: so you could see what that mind was.
Speaker 2: Definitely that's the number one terrible.
Speaker 5: Now you saw, you saw his disregard for you as
Speaker 5: as just as a human being, but even more so
Speaker 5: in this sposedly this loving relationship. You loved him, He
Speaker 5: told you he loved you. So do you learn your
Speaker 5: lesson after this? Is this enough to separate you from him?
Speaker 5: Or his grasp is is not there anymore? What happens?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: I always felt bad for him. I'm I'm an empass.
Speaker 2: This is a disaster situation for an EmPATH. A person
Speaker 2: who constantly can feel the other person, feels bad for them,
Speaker 2: tries to understand them. You know, I just really tried
Speaker 2: to understand him as a person and his abuse, sexual abuse.
Speaker 2: We had that in common. So I always thought, maybe
Speaker 2: you know, that's what it is, Maybe he just doesn't
Speaker 2: know how to deal with it. And I just always
Speaker 2: put him before myself. And I became someone that I
Speaker 2: didn't even know, I didn't even recognize in the mirror.
Speaker 2: I was went from a happy kid at a mall
Speaker 2: to a sex slave in a hotel room and just
Speaker 2: being rushed around here and there and by here and there,
Speaker 2: and just give me sex, and give me an STV
Speaker 2: and and and that's what he That's what he gave
Speaker 2: to me. That's what he brought to the table. He
Speaker 2: never brought any music or never kept any promises. You
Speaker 2: just abused me, and I'm one of many. Unfortunately, you know,
Speaker 2: I wish it would have stopped.
Speaker 5: Then you talked about also, you talked also about the
Speaker 5: opportunities that you declined. You had an agent couple that
Speaker 5: was very interested and lined up a definitive meeting with Motown,
Speaker 5: and they said that Motown was interested. What do you
Speaker 5: do and why do you decline this opportunity? What makes
Speaker 5: you do that?
Speaker 2: Well, at this point, I was an abused woman, you know,
Speaker 2: At this point I was depressed. He called and said
Speaker 2: that he really needed me to come to Chicago. There
Speaker 2: was something very serious going on. He was crying on
Speaker 2: the phone. And I chose him. I chose him over
Speaker 2: such an amazing opportunity. And I can't even tell you why.
Speaker 2: All I can say is he had such a grasp
Speaker 2: on me. And this happens to abuse women. You forget
Speaker 2: about yourself. It's just so involved in this crazy, toxic
Speaker 2: situation that you know, I don't even know how I
Speaker 2: would have saying at that time, I was just so
Speaker 2: so abused, so down and he was number one. He
Speaker 2: made sure of it, and if he wasn't number one,
Speaker 2: I would be punished.
Speaker 5: Yeah, let's use this as an opportunity, Lizette to talk
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Speaker 5: at talkspace dot com. Now, Lazette, you were talking about
Speaker 5: where you were in your life at this time. He
Speaker 5: had given you an STD, you had been pregnant, you miscarried,
Speaker 5: and you were alone. When you miscarried, he left you
Speaker 5: in that hotel room. Your intimate love life is not
Speaker 5: so intimate, and it's not what you would regard as
Speaker 5: a love life. What happens next in your life that
Speaker 5: creates a big difference in your life.
Speaker 2: Oh, when you're talking about when I got sick, Yes,
Speaker 2: So we fast forward to coming back to Miami and
Speaker 2: seeing him at a concert. We were kind of still,
Speaker 2: you know, seeing each other, and I was very hurt
Speaker 2: by him and that that whole pregnant sheet. I was
Speaker 2: very very hurt. And anyway, so we went to the
Speaker 2: I went to the concert with some friends and there
Speaker 2: were girls in the audience that I could hear saying, Oh,
Speaker 2: I was with him last night. Oh, I was with
Speaker 2: him last night, or you know, it was like the
Speaker 2: whole day of all these young young girls, and I
Speaker 2: saw him. We spent time together after and but before that,
Speaker 2: the day of the concert, when he he never showed
Speaker 2: up to the hotel room. His manager put me in
Speaker 2: a hotel room and said, and I said, this isn't
Speaker 2: where I stayed last night, and he said, well, you're
Speaker 2: gonna stay here tonight. And when I when I got
Speaker 2: to the room, my girlfriend was with me and we heard, like,
Speaker 2: you know, some commotion next door, like a party going on.
Speaker 4: So she left.
Speaker 2: She said, I have to go home, and I said,
Speaker 2: no problem. So I hear this commotion going on girls
Speaker 2: in the room, and I heard him clear his throat
Speaker 2: and I knew this guy so well. It sounds so weird,
Speaker 2: but I just knew, and I just had a feeling
Speaker 2: in my gut that that was him. And I put
Speaker 2: a cup to the door, to the to the wall
Speaker 2: to try to hear what was going on before I
Speaker 2: knock on the door because he would never answer his phone.
Speaker 2: He was just you know, the same situation all over again.
Speaker 2: And he comes out the room and I see him
Speaker 2: coming out of the room and I see the girls
Speaker 2: and his pants are down and he looked like totally
Speaker 2: he was on cocaine and comes in the room and
Speaker 2: starts yelling and staying and I'm crying, and he's saying
Speaker 2: that I never choose his friend, I never choose him
Speaker 2: over my friends, totally flipping it on me, saying that
Speaker 2: that if I want, I could live to move to Chicago.
Speaker 2: And I was just like, no, you know, I'm good,
Speaker 2: and I left, and not too long after, a few
Speaker 2: days later, I started feeling really sick. I was diagnosed
Speaker 2: with mono nucleosis and I was told to stay in
Speaker 2: the bed for about fifteen days because my white count
Speaker 2: was very, very very very high. And I started to
Speaker 2: feel better, and then not too long after that, a
Speaker 2: few days my body started to become paralyzed and I
Speaker 2: got Giambaret syndrome. And I spent three weeks or two weeks,
Speaker 2: and then I see you and I almost lost my life,
Speaker 2: and he called my my I called him to tell
Speaker 2: him and he said, yeah, I'm not feeling well either.
Speaker 2: I had that and You're gonna get better. And then
Speaker 2: that was that was it, and I heard that he
Speaker 2: had canceled some the concert dates. So I'm stick in
Speaker 2: the hospital. He calls my dad's house and my step
Speaker 2: sister says, where the hell are you? What the hell
Speaker 2: are you doing? You know, my my sister's nearly dead
Speaker 2: and he just sent a thousand dollars checks to my
Speaker 2: my mom And that was his response.
Speaker 5: Yeah, not much of a response even financially.
Speaker 2: No, No, we didn't, we don't. We didn't care. You know,
Speaker 2: who cares about a thousand dollars?
Speaker 3: You know that.
Speaker 2: The point is, like, you got me sick? You know?
Speaker 5: Is there something he tells you in phone calls around
Speaker 5: this time as well about upcoming things in the media.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there was a call that I got where
Speaker 2: he said he started. He was crying on the phone,
Speaker 2: and he said that that I was going to hear
Speaker 2: things and not to believe them, that they weren't true.
Speaker 2: And I said, well, what do you mean, Like, what's
Speaker 2: wrong with you?
Speaker 5: What do you mean?
Speaker 2: And he just wouldn't say it. He was just distraught,
Speaker 2: like I've never seen him before, you know, as an
Speaker 2: adult now and now understanding what was going on in
Speaker 2: that time. It had to be the lawsuit from Tiffany
Speaker 2: Hawkins or the other young lady after, you know, So
Speaker 2: that's all right, I think that is he never really
Speaker 2: told me the details of why he was the way
Speaker 2: he was.
Speaker 5: Now, you try to build your new life and you're
Speaker 5: living with your dad, but your stepmom is there and
Speaker 5: it's a crowded house. But tell us what you do
Speaker 5: to try to assert your life back.
Speaker 2: I you know, I went through physical therapy because I
Speaker 2: had to learn how to eat again, pick up a cup.
Speaker 2: You know. My nervous system was shot. It was a
Speaker 2: miracle that I was alive. I mean, they really told
Speaker 2: my daddy should prepare for a funeral, you know. And after,
Speaker 2: like you say, things weren't really going too well at
Speaker 2: my dad's house and there was a lot of hormones
Speaker 2: in there and too many girls. I decided to go
Speaker 2: move to Miami and live with my grandmother and I
Speaker 2: just got my life together, you know. I got a
Speaker 2: job at the hospital and bought a little car and
Speaker 2: got an apartment and just wanted to just forget about
Speaker 2: the music business completely. My dreams were killed. They were dead,
Speaker 2: but I wasn't dead, and I was alive, and that's
Speaker 2: what kept me going. But I almost lost my life
Speaker 2: over this, and that's not something that I was ready for,
Speaker 2: nor that I want. Despite the depression and anxiety and
Speaker 2: all the PTSD, you know, I knew that I still
Speaker 2: had a purpose to continue on and I knew that
Speaker 2: one day I was going to have to talk about this.
Speaker 2: And that's why, you know, I just want to say this.
Speaker 2: You know, people, a lot of the haters, Oh, why
Speaker 2: didn't you come out sooner? Why why didn't you ref's
Speaker 2: the case? Why didn't you sue him? Or why didn't
Speaker 2: you go to the police. I just wanted to go
Speaker 2: out with my life. You know, I was young, I
Speaker 2: was afraid of him still, and it was never about
Speaker 2: the money for me. It was about me making myself,
Speaker 2: making something out of myself. And I got totally railroaded
Speaker 2: and used and abused, and you know, I started, I
Speaker 2: became assertive to know that it's either me or him.
Speaker 2: Either he's gonna kill me. I'm going to kill me.
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going to happen here. But it
Speaker 2: was going down to the TECH. It was get in
Speaker 2: really really dark places there, and I just knew. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm a survivor. I survived sexual abuse as a child,
Speaker 2: a young young child, like I'm a strong woman. Let's
Speaker 2: just go keep going.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you have twins, boy and a girl, and you
Speaker 5: hook up with a guy you knew from before was Craig,
Speaker 5: which was a nice guy, but then turns into a
Speaker 5: guy that hits you. You talk about you getting your strength,
Speaker 5: but also your sister shows up eight months pregnant. I
Speaker 5: think this is an incredible scene in the book. What
Speaker 5: does she tell Craig and where do you go?
Speaker 2: Well, let's just you know, Craig was a guy that
Speaker 2: I knew in high SPEC's just to sit a little
Speaker 2: bit back on. Craig was a guy that I knew
Speaker 2: that I knew in high school, and he always said
Speaker 2: he loved me. And when I was with Robert, he
Speaker 2: came to New York and said he that Robert did
Speaker 2: not have the right intentions for me, that he wanted
Speaker 2: to marry me, that he Craig wanted to marry me,
Speaker 2: that he loved me, and he was always around.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: After I got my life together, I met up with
Speaker 2: him again and thought, Okay, he's that nice guy. You know,
Speaker 2: he really cares about me, seems to be really nice,
Speaker 2: and I know him from high school. We were buddies
Speaker 2: in high school. So I gave him a chance, and
Speaker 2: you know, I had these kids with him, and he
Speaker 2: turned in to be another monster, a narcissist or an abuser,
Speaker 2: like you can't believe. I mean, I've been through the ringer.
Speaker 2: He put me on my knees, on my niece on
Speaker 2: Rice as a punishment when I was eight months pregnant
Speaker 2: with his twins. And you know, my sister came and
Speaker 2: you know, she had a dream about me that I
Speaker 2: was that I was walking around in a white dress,
Speaker 2: that I was basically dead. And she came in and
Speaker 2: basically told me, pack your stuff, we're leaving. And I
Speaker 2: had a whole house and everything with my kids, and
Speaker 2: I was just like, I'm leaving. And I left him
Speaker 2: because I was really fearful for my life. And I
Speaker 2: was so down on myself because I say, here you
Speaker 2: go again, falling into the same trap. You know, but
Speaker 2: this is this is what abused women go to. When
Speaker 2: I want the listeners to understand that this becomes a
Speaker 2: pattern in life. You know, I didn't get meant to
Speaker 2: help help after the situation where Robert I should have.
Speaker 2: I never healed from it. I'm still not heals from it.
Speaker 2: I'm stronger, and you know, Craig's situation was one that
Speaker 2: you know, once I left him, Yeah, I left him,
Speaker 2: but I had two kids by him. It wasn't you know,
Speaker 2: as cut and dry as Robert. So you know, my
Speaker 2: sister saved my life.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you right that I quote I'm a victim of
Speaker 5: r Kelly. I met him in Florida as an underage kid.
Speaker 5: And you say that that statement started an avalanche of
Speaker 5: changes in your life. Tell us about you emailing BuzzFeed
Speaker 5: and who who you talk to at BuzzFeed?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 2: So I yeah, So I had have always been following
Speaker 2: this story, you know, this first trial, and I heard
Speaker 2: of Jim deva goddess who was a music journalist, a
Speaker 2: critic and a journalist, and he has a show called
Speaker 2: Son Opinions and he's a professor, so I knew, I
Speaker 2: knew of him and I and I had read his
Speaker 2: story about the cult and about Johanda Pace, one of
Speaker 2: the other young women that met Robert at doing the
Speaker 2: first file, which she was fifteen or sixteen years old.
Speaker 2: She's a Jane do in the in the in the
Speaker 2: last child with this trial, which is hyway he was convicted.
Speaker 2: So when I read these stories and BuzzFeed News. I
Speaker 2: reached out to them from my job at Benny Hannah
Speaker 2: and I said, I want to talk to Jim. And
Speaker 2: when I spoke to Jim, he said to me, I've
Speaker 2: been waiting for over twenty years to talk to you.
Speaker 2: And I didn't know what he meant. And he said,
Speaker 2: you're the girl from Miami and I said, yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: the girl from Miami. And he said, well, Barry Hankerson
Speaker 2: told me to find you when the first trial was happening,
Speaker 2: because he knows he did a number on you. So
Speaker 2: we spoke and he published my story and that was
Speaker 2: just our crazy day. It was May eighteen, twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: I felt like so liberated. But then again, you know,
Speaker 2: so many things started happening. I got of breaking in
Speaker 2: my home, I had to move. They published where I worked,
Speaker 2: so I was afraid to go to work. So many
Speaker 2: things happened when I came out that have really not
Speaker 2: been easy. And I also, you know, want to say,
Speaker 2: like that's something that people don't understand, like when you
Speaker 2: come out, like you're giving your life away. And I
Speaker 2: gave it for the cause, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like I knew, like I said why didn't sue him
Speaker 2: back then? I didn't want to sign an NBNA. I
Speaker 2: didn't want to be silent because I knew this day
Speaker 2: was going to come. I knew that Karmel was going
Speaker 2: to catch up with Robert.
Speaker 5: Yeah, let's this is an opportunity to stop for a
Speaker 5: second for these messages.
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Speaker 5: Today. Now we talk about uh rob, but you also
Speaker 5: talk about the media and after the BuzzFeed BuzzFeed says
Speaker 5: they want to make a documentary now and tries to
Speaker 5: get the funding or they communicate to you that they
Speaker 5: are going to get the funding. Talk about BuzzFeed the documentary,
Speaker 5: what they wanted to do, and then how you got
Speaker 5: to the producers at Lifeline or Lifetime Pardon me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was sent a contrast over right away
Speaker 2: to sign for a whuhu documentary that was going to
Speaker 2: be produced by that was going to be the showrunner
Speaker 2: was going to be a woman named Lyric Cabral And
Speaker 2: she's an investigative journalist as well and documentarian.
Speaker 4: And she.
Speaker 2: She befriended me, but we didn't know that she was
Speaker 2: like an investigative person. Where she her last film she
Speaker 2: won an Emmy four was she was saying that she
Speaker 2: was there for the person, you know, like I say,
Speaker 2: she's here for me, but then it goes against me
Speaker 2: in the in the during the movie, so or you know,
Speaker 2: when the movie from Here is here, you go surprise,
Speaker 2: you know. So she she was eventually fired off the
Speaker 2: film because we had information from one of the fathers
Speaker 2: of the young women that was still with Robert. That
Speaker 2: was on Gail King interview if anyone watched that, Azrael Clary,
Speaker 2: her father, you know, said the lyric is meeting with
Speaker 2: Robert and that's very dangerous because we don't know what
Speaker 2: information she's giving him to get the story. So she
Speaker 2: was fired off the film. Yeah, So that was really
Speaker 2: scary because she knew where I lived. She came to
Speaker 2: my house in Los Angeles. And I'm not saying she's
Speaker 2: a bad person. I never would say that, but it
Speaker 2: was too many gray areas going on with Hulu and
Speaker 2: and that whole project. It was very stressful as well
Speaker 2: going through all of that. How I got with Lifetime
Speaker 2: was after the BuzzFeed story. They contacted me because the Savages,
Speaker 2: Joyful and Savage's parents found out about me, and they
Speaker 2: apparently brought the projects to Lifetime and so they knew
Speaker 2: of me and they called and asked if I sign on.
Speaker 2: And you know, one thing I've regret is that I
Speaker 2: didn't have legal representation. You have to. You know, you're
Speaker 2: down for the cause. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: this is a big They see this as a business.
Speaker 2: It's a business to them. They profit off of survivors
Speaker 2: and they leave you stranded. And that's really the truth.
Speaker 2: And that's really why I wanted to wait and write
Speaker 2: this book. You know, a lot of the young women
Speaker 2: and that's fine. They wrote their books and they released
Speaker 2: them right where the document documentary aired Lifetime. I didn't
Speaker 2: do that because that wasn't my intention, but living through it,
Speaker 2: and I really wanted to expose Hollywood and what they
Speaker 2: do and what they did to us and everything that
Speaker 2: we gave up and everything that we had to go
Speaker 2: through and all the hate and not protecting us online
Speaker 2: with the protection stisiness and not having security when we
Speaker 2: go to events where you know there's a gun threat
Speaker 2: at a screening and we have to leave. I mean,
Speaker 2: we went through hell and back hell, and that it's
Speaker 2: still going through it.
Speaker 5: You talk about a couple of things that demonstrate what
Speaker 5: you're saying, illustrate clearly what you're saying. There was a
Speaker 5: television interview where they told you to bring two outfits
Speaker 5: what happens when you go there? What did they say
Speaker 5: to you? And what in actuality happened.
Speaker 2: So we were told to bring I was told to
Speaker 2: bring two outfits. This is my second interview, by the way,
Speaker 2: this is another eight hours of work. So to them,
Speaker 2: you know, they call it work. I call it life
Speaker 2: traumatized traumatizing situations. But so I had so they so
Speaker 2: I had like a like a little black little dress,
Speaker 2: and I said, I don't. They said, bring a black
Speaker 2: and a white out Bring a black outfit. But I
Speaker 2: had a white, a beautiful white outfit that was very conservative,
Speaker 2: which I felt comfortable wearing on television, and they said, oh,
Speaker 2: we're the black one. It was very short, and I
Speaker 2: bought it with jeans. I had genes with me. They said, no,
Speaker 2: we're just gonna shoot from a waste up. Don't worry
Speaker 2: about it. When I saw myself on television, I could
Speaker 2: not believe that they did that to me. My legs
Speaker 2: were all out. I mean, it just looked so inappropriate,
Speaker 2: and they made me feel so uncomfortable, like why would
Speaker 2: you do that to a survivor crying on screen and
Speaker 2: then show them like that, show me like that? And
Speaker 2: they never even apologized for that. You know, they never
Speaker 2: even said sorry. I hope after they read my book.
Speaker 5: They do incredible and they also the film company or
Speaker 5: the documentary company. They also advised you not to take
Speaker 5: a job for this incredible opportunity, just to stand up
Speaker 5: for this cause.
Speaker 2: Correct, I left. I didn't take a job making a
Speaker 2: lot of money in Elson's Window, California, because we were
Speaker 2: supposed to start shooting and that was Hulu and then
Speaker 2: the project was killed. So I started to clean houses
Speaker 2: on the handy app. I mean, you go from a
Speaker 2: person making like a really good salary, having a great
Speaker 2: apartment in Avncero overlooking the water, to cleaning houses. And
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with cleaning houses. I'm just talking about me.
Speaker 2: How I went from one situation one to another so
Speaker 2: rapidly and really not what I wanted to do with
Speaker 2: not a career that I that I wanted to choose,
Speaker 2: but I had to live. I mean, my face is
Speaker 2: on a billboard for them for the Emmys, and I
Speaker 2: can't even put gas in the car or buy a Hamburger.
Speaker 2: I mean, really, it's you know, and you don't want
Speaker 2: to seem like it's about the money, but you put
Speaker 2: me in a situation where I can't make any money
Speaker 2: and no one really cared. I mean I even asked
Speaker 2: them for a job. I can I help with survivors,
Speaker 2: Can I be a person on set, or can I
Speaker 2: get water? Whatever, I'll do anything. I just need a job,
Speaker 2: and it was just like, oh, you know, we don't
Speaker 2: really have any and it's fine, But I just want
Speaker 2: the readers to understand my story and how coming out
Speaker 2: impassed me in such a degree that I'm still struggling.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm still trying to get back to where
Speaker 2: I was. How many years later, three years later.
Speaker 5: You demonstrate the techniques they use to be able to
Speaker 5: befriend you and also stroke your egos so that they
Speaker 5: understand your motivation and utilize that leverage that against you.
Speaker 5: So the money they promise is never the money that
Speaker 5: actually happens. And this is supposed to happen, scheduled shoot
Speaker 5: but it's canceled, and all of these things that it
Speaker 5: looks hopeful but then isn't. And so they have these
Speaker 5: certain techniques to be able to convince you that they're
Speaker 5: on your side, but in the end you don't see that.
Speaker 5: The Lifetime docuseries Surviving R Kelly was about to premiere,
Speaker 5: and it was supposed to be a panel, a conversation
Speaker 5: panel that you were involved with. Five survivors plus the
Speaker 5: Tamara or part of me Tarana Burke, founder of the
Speaker 5: Me Too movement, and there was yourself, Kitty Jones, Johanda Pace,
Speaker 5: Lisa Van Allen and as Santi McGee, all survivors seated
Speaker 5: in the theater's front row. Tell us about the anticipation
Speaker 5: of this and your presence there and what happens.
Speaker 2: So we arrived in New York and we had to
Speaker 2: do a lot of press that day. It was weird
Speaker 2: because this is the first time that we're meeting. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of people thought that we knew each other,
Speaker 2: and none of us knew each other before any of
Speaker 2: this happened. So we get there and you know, everyone's
Speaker 2: kind of like arguing and I don't I didn't get it,
Speaker 2: but you know, I guess it's traumatic. You know, you're
Speaker 2: like meeting someone that has the same type of war
Speaker 2: you know, war wounds, you know, wounds that you're you're
Speaker 2: walking around with, and there's you know, women and the competition.
Speaker 2: And so we get to the premiere and We're just
Speaker 2: sitting there and we're so nervous, and I'm holding onto
Speaker 2: his ex wife's hands, she's holding my hand, and we're
Speaker 2: just looking at each other like, well, it's really about
Speaker 2: to happen. And as soon as the film starts playing,
Speaker 2: you see my face, just see the other women, and
Speaker 2: then it's gonna it's telling his story. And then the
Speaker 2: cops come in and they're like, we have to evacuate now, immediately,
Speaker 2: excuse me, And we didn't understand what was going on.
Speaker 2: They rushed us into the into the vans, and it
Speaker 2: was so scary because you don't know what's going to happen,
Speaker 2: you know that. Then at that point it got really
Speaker 2: real for me and for the others. We didn't have security.
Speaker 2: We should have had secure yet all times with us,
Speaker 2: that's another thing may drop the ball on, you know,
Speaker 2: after at the hotel, still no security. The next day,
Speaker 2: our names are on the cars outside, like, how does
Speaker 2: that happen? How did you not protect survivors? You guys
Speaker 2: are profiting off of us.
Speaker 5: Who do you need security from? Though, that's the question
Speaker 5: for maybe the audience, you know, we haven't filled that in.
Speaker 5: Why would you need security?
Speaker 2: What is happening because his it was found out and
Speaker 2: the person that called in was his manager. Was the
Speaker 2: fence indicted him. He got he called in that threat.
Speaker 2: And also there was a young one of the survivors.
Speaker 2: Her car was blown up. I had a break and
Speaker 2: in my house. The other survivor, Miss Faith Rogers had
Speaker 2: her whole family had to relocate. They were in San Antonio.
Speaker 2: They had to move because of the threats, because of
Speaker 2: all the craziness that we belie was coming from his camp.
Speaker 2: And that takes me back to the situation with Hulu.
Speaker 2: They knew where I lived. You have a woman who's
Speaker 2: saying that she's my friend, but I don't really know
Speaker 2: she's my friend because she's an investigative documentary maker who
Speaker 2: could be giving secrets. We don't know. We couldn't trust
Speaker 2: anyone at this point. We don't know who to trust.
Speaker 5: That's right.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 5: A little bit after this, you say, a few weeks
Speaker 5: after this premiere fiasco, you you talked to a Gloria
Speaker 5: Alred faithbook. Roger's mom Kelly calls, and so you set
Speaker 5: up a meeting with Gloria Already tell us about this.
Speaker 2: Well, I knew of Gloria because of who Gloria is,
Speaker 2: and she's a wonderful woman and she has quite a
Speaker 2: story herself. She's I've, you know, saw her fighting for
Speaker 2: women her entire life. And I watched the documentary on
Speaker 2: her that's on Netflix. It's very good, and I just
Speaker 2: trust her, and you know, missus Rogers is my very
Speaker 2: good friend. She's become like a second mom to me.
Speaker 2: And she said, why don't you go, why don't we
Speaker 2: go see her? And since I was in LA, I
Speaker 2: was the first one to go talk to Gloria. And
Speaker 2: it was very weird because I'm sitting in a conference
Speaker 2: room and I'm being recorded on a computer on a
Speaker 2: computer I'm not recorded, but I guess she's listening in
Speaker 2: being interviewed by her colleague. And then she comes in
Speaker 2: right away and we start talking and she says that
Speaker 2: she believes that we have a case and that she's
Speaker 2: going to send some demand letters to him. And we
Speaker 2: became friends after that, like we're friends to this day.
Speaker 2: It was nerve wracking. I didn't really want her to
Speaker 2: send the demand letter and I told her he's not
Speaker 2: going to do right by us, and she felt confident
Speaker 2: in that maybe he will, And there was a conversation
Speaker 2: about well, maybe if you know you don't do the documentary,
Speaker 2: he will. But for me, the documentary was important because
Speaker 2: despite all the nonsense that happened, I knew that he
Speaker 2: was going to be exposed, and an exposure that he
Speaker 2: can't run from. So I declined that and decided to
Speaker 2: let them air my interview.
Speaker 5: Right after this. This is successful, this docuseriies, isn't it,
Speaker 5: despite the misrepresentation in your mind, in all of your minds?
Speaker 5: But so what does Lifeline or Lifetime pardon me call
Speaker 5: again about?
Speaker 2: They call again about you mean the interviews or the
Speaker 2: second part? Yes, well, okay, so we after when it
Speaker 2: was about to air, we were summoned again to go
Speaker 2: to a lot of interviews and you know, once again
Speaker 2: that's the opening Pandora's box again. You know, you're reliving
Speaker 2: all of this again. And after that, the documentary did
Speaker 2: so well. They were nominated for an Emmy, We won
Speaker 2: an MTV Documentary Award, We won the Critics Choice Award,
Speaker 2: back to award. There was so many awards. We couldn't
Speaker 2: believe it. I really wasn't feeling the whole red carpeting.
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I don't feel like I'm a celebrity.
Speaker 2: I just feel like I'm just a person who decided
Speaker 2: to tell on someone who's very powerful. Getting to those events,
Speaker 2: there was really no transportation. There was no sipe in
Speaker 2: for anything, I mean, any money for any type of
Speaker 2: go and you know, when you go into these things,
Speaker 2: you have to look a certain way. And I was
Speaker 2: cleaning home, so you know, I tried my best, but
Speaker 2: they really wanted to parade us. And that's what I
Speaker 2: got from that. We went to the Emmys and when
Speaker 2: they did not win, they just all got up and
Speaker 2: left us sitting there Jesus, all of yeah. And also
Speaker 2: at the Critics' Choice Awards, like none of the you know,
Speaker 2: the higher up, even Kim Hello, to shake anyone's hand
Speaker 2: and say hello or thank you for doing this, or
Speaker 2: it was just nothing. It was just so disrespectful.
Speaker 5: You say that. In February twenty second, twenty nineteen, Robert
Speaker 5: Kelly turns himself in. At that time, you were a
Speaker 5: project manager at LA Forever twenty one. What happens after
Speaker 5: this we talked about in the synopsis. And he goes
Speaker 5: to trial, But what happens after he turns himself in
Speaker 5: and charges.
Speaker 2: Proceed I'm asked to meet with the Feds. So I
Speaker 2: went to New York City with Gloria and I had
Speaker 2: an interview with them that lasted many hours. I changed
Speaker 2: smoke like crazy, and I don't even smoke. It was
Speaker 2: really scary because there was no turning back in that
Speaker 2: I had to continue to stand in my truth and
Speaker 2: tell what really happened to me. And it was hard
Speaker 2: because you know, you're just I'm just so it's like
Speaker 2: a movie. It really is like a movie. Like I
Speaker 2: never thought this is gonna unfold like this the way
Speaker 2: it did. I didn't think that. I knew the documentary
Speaker 2: was going to hold him accountable, but I didn't know
Speaker 2: that it was going to be like this. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's facing forever in prison. It was a hard time
Speaker 2: for me. I just leave it like that.
Speaker 5: MM. Yeah, you say, you really wrap up a lot
Speaker 5: of the feelings about this, and you talk about that
Speaker 5: they basically resold your pain worldwide and you all became
Speaker 5: victims all over again with just new kinds of predators.
Speaker 5: I thought that was really profound.
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The most disheartening thing was, you know, who does she
Speaker 2: think she is going after? A black man, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'll go after any man, I don't care who is
Speaker 2: if you're a predator, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 2: I got a lot of that and this white woman
Speaker 2: and I'm you know, I'm not white, I'm Puerto Rican.
Speaker 2: But what isn't matter, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 2: I'm standing here telling you that somebody did this to
Speaker 2: me and you're not believing me. It's like it's like
Speaker 2: we're on trial. It's like we're on trial first until
Speaker 2: he's found not until he's found guilty. We're the guilty ones.
Speaker 2: That's really what it feels like, you know. And the
Speaker 2: fake pages on Facebook and Instagram. Kill Lizette, kill Azrael,
Speaker 2: kill Faith. I mean, these people don't stop. This is
Speaker 2: a NonStop thing, and you just are afraid to even
Speaker 2: go outside. I mean there was a period where I
Speaker 2: was just in the house and during the trial, I
Speaker 2: didn't want to go outside at all. I was completely depressed.
Speaker 2: And just like now if he's found guilty, who knows
Speaker 2: if they're going to go and try to kill us,
Speaker 2: Like you don't know, you know what I mean, because
Speaker 2: we have been through so much, Like we're all walking
Speaker 2: around with PTSD from.
Speaker 5: This sure yeah yeah, yeah yeah, And no no offer
Speaker 5: for treatment, any kind of compensation anywhere from anyone and
Speaker 5: nowhere from anyone. And like you say, there's profits to
Speaker 5: go around, there's a lot of people going to profit
Speaker 5: off this misery.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, all these YouTubers, they make a living
Speaker 2: off of this. It's every day day. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've seen it day in and day out, the story.
Speaker 2: They go after us, they lie on us. You know,
Speaker 2: you have you know I talk about this, you know,
Speaker 2: the Time's Up situation that happened that's in the book
Speaker 2: where they wouldn't help us. And you start to question
Speaker 2: all of these nonprofits. I mean, who are you helping?
Speaker 2: We need help? You know, we need help, but we're
Speaker 2: not getting it. And that's something that needs to be
Speaker 2: brought to the table. And and really, you know, I
Speaker 2: think that things need to change in Hollywood as far
Speaker 2: as the rules. You know, with bags, if you're interviewing survivors,
Speaker 2: you need to have a real psychologist on site that
Speaker 2: deals with trauma to know to say the interview is over,
Speaker 2: she can't go anymore, stop pushing her. And that doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: You know, they want to do that to you. They
Speaker 2: want to see how where they can poke you. You know,
Speaker 2: when I was doing the second documentary, the second one,
Speaker 2: because I was in contract the second one, she said
Speaker 2: to me, and I just had been after like hours
Speaker 2: of crying, she said, what would you think your life
Speaker 2: would be if you hadn't walked in that mall? I
Speaker 2: mean I had a nervous I nearly had a nervous
Speaker 2: breakdown on camera because it was just way too much,
Speaker 2: way too much.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely yes. And you you do say at
Speaker 5: the very end of this book, you say, people always
Speaker 5: ask you, and I've always asked you, why did you
Speaker 5: stay before I let you go? Which you answer that
Speaker 5: so eloquently in this part of the book.
Speaker 2: The end of the book, I'm going to answer the
Speaker 2: way I want to answer right now, because every day
Speaker 2: it's like it's changes in my mind. I kind of
Speaker 2: dissect why I stayed. You know, I just wanted to
Speaker 2: be somebody and I could. I was a wounded person,
Speaker 2: and I still am a wounded person. But I was
Speaker 2: a wounded kid, and he was a wounded person. And
Speaker 2: sometimes wounded people don't know how to let each other go,
Speaker 2: or they don't know how to say no, there's no boundaries.
Speaker 2: It's just a free for all and I lost myself.
Speaker 2: And that's the only explanation I have.
Speaker 5: That says it all. I think, really does. I want
Speaker 5: to thank you so much for coming on and talking
Speaker 5: about Jane Doe number nine, How I Survived r Kelly.
Speaker 5: For those people that might want to take a look
Speaker 5: at this, I know this is a Wild Blue Press
Speaker 5: release and it's your release is just today, as a
Speaker 5: matter of fact, today, Yes, is there a Facebook page
Speaker 5: or somewhere where they might find out more information about
Speaker 5: this other than the Wild Blue Press page?
Speaker 2: They can't. It's well, it's on Amazons and it's actually
Speaker 2: number one and new releases of Survivor Burmaar today. It's
Speaker 2: been number one for a few days now, so I'm
Speaker 2: really proud of that. And you know, I want to
Speaker 2: thank Keela McGregor, who you know, helped me with this.
Speaker 2: She's an amazing, amazing woman and amazing writer. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was a collaborative effort, but I could never have
Speaker 2: done it without her. We worked two years on this
Speaker 2: and we really gave it our all and I really
Speaker 2: hope that people pick it up, give it as a gift.
Speaker 2: Anyone that's survived anything, or that's trying to survive something.
Speaker 2: I think this book would be really helpful. Absolutely, And
Speaker 2: I'm I'm on Instagram and it's I am Lisette Martinez
Speaker 2: and I post a lot about the book there, which
Speaker 2: we're going to do a page for the actual book
Speaker 2: probably tomorrow, but they can follow me there and find
Speaker 2: out more about it and my upcoming events. I have
Speaker 2: a nonprofit called Delia's House, which is dedicated to my
Speaker 2: grandmother and my sister and I started it and we're
Speaker 2: going to build a home for domestic violence victim and
Speaker 2: sexual assault violence a sexual assault victims in Puerto Rico,
Speaker 2: where we're from. You know, Puerto Rico is part of
Speaker 2: the United States, but you know it's a forgotten place
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of domestic violence going on there.
Speaker 2: It's this serious, serious issues. So I'm going to give
Speaker 2: my all to that. That's my next goal.
Speaker 5: Great, well, that's remarkable. It's a remarkable cause that you've
Speaker 5: taken up, and it is a remarkable book. Thank you
Speaker 5: so much, Martinez. Thank you Number nine How I Survive?
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 5: You have a great night.
Speaker 2: Thanks Regular YouTube by Pack