WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:04.559 Tom Haberstrow, Tommy, Happy Tuesday. Just so you know, snowy cold. 2 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:07.400 It feels like it's a February in Salt Lake. How 3 00:00:07.480 --> 00:00:08.480 we holding up? Where you're at? 4 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:12.839 It's about eighty degrees and sunny. I hate to tell 5 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:17.719 you where are you? I mean Charlotte, Charlotte, North Carolina. 6 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:20.480 Your home, beautiful Charlotte, North Carolina place that I that 7 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:23.760 I love an awful lot. All right, Tom, First of all, 8 00:00:23.879 --> 00:00:27.000 let's start with Porter is bragging because he picked all 9 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:29.039 four number one seeds. You go to the final four 10 00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:32.920 like a simp. Yeah, that means he's winning our brackets. 11 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:36.359 So he's become unsufferable. I believe you filled out a bracket. 12 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:38.560 Did you did? Did you go all chalk or did 13 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:39.759 you Did you do. 14 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:42.439 Like I did and picked upsets because you know you've 15 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:43.560 watched this thing before. 16 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:48.000 I did a lot of upsets, which I think was 17 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:51.560 a balance with my pick to win it all Duke, 18 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:54.719 So I felt like Duke was far and away the 19 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:59.280 best team. I also saw Duke in person and was 20 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:03.399 blown away at how professional they seemed like. They seemed 21 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:05.439 like an NBA team with the way they played and 22 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:08.319 the talent that was on the floor, and even though 23 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.239 I had no point of reference because I didn't watch 24 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.760 any other team really in person, it just felt like 25 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:18.120 this was a team that was destined to win it all. 26 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:22.000 And when Cooper Flyag got hurt in the ACC Tournament, 27 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:26.400 I was actually there here in Charlotte, and I was 28 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:29.239 a little worried because I was like, man, it would 29 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:31.760 be great. As much as it pains me to say, 30 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:34.120 as a kid who grew up as a Tar Heel 31 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:37.159 fan going to UNC basketball camp and then going to 32 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:41.719 nearby Wake Forest, there was a common enemy among those 33 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:44.200 two schools, and that's the Duke. But I found myself 34 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:49.680 watching Cooper Flag and Malwatch and Canipple and these guys 35 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:55.599 and feeling like they are it's already scripted that they 36 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:59.200 are that good and that talented, and it was good 37 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:01.519 to see that Flag made it back on the floor, 38 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:04.000 and I just feel like this team is that much 39 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:08.560 better than everybody else the rest of my bracket. Let's 40 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:09.360 not talk about that. 41 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:11.599 Yeah, no, I'm in the same boat. I'm in the 42 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:12.159 same boat. 43 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.240 But let's stay in this space for a moment, because 44 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:16.479 you know, I think there are a lot of people 45 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:20.680 that casually watch sports that maybe a lot don't really 46 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:23.599 watch college basketball, but they heard the name Cooper Flag 47 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:27.039 all year, and certainly around here, if you're a basketball fan, 48 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:30.199 you can't have a conversation without hearing Cooper Flag. Because 49 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:34.360 the Jazz just became the first Jazz team in fifty 50 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:37.919 plus years of an organizational history where they've lost sixty games. 51 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:39.919 It's never happened. This is the worst team we've ever 52 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:40.479 had here. 53 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:43.240 And so whenever the Jazz come up, it's not very 54 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.039 long Timmy before Cooper Flag's name come up comes up. 55 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:49.000 So a lot of these people are probably watching him 56 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:51.280 for the first time, and it, you know, during this 57 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.879 tournament experience. It continues to be wild to me that 58 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:58.240 in this day of college basketball, with the COVID year 59 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:02.639 allowing extra eligibility and the transfer portal allowing players to 60 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:05.280 play sometimes into their mid to late twenties. I think 61 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:08.039 Trevinnell from BYU is about to turn twenty seven. He's 62 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:11.120 older than Luca Cooper Flagg, who should be a senior 63 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:14.919 in high school reclassified just turn eighteen in December, seems 64 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:18.800 to dominate in every single way every time he plays. 65 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:21.719 He's not perfect, nobody is, But what has been your 66 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:25.000 takeaway with the performance of Cooper Flag during this tournament 67 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:25.639 run for Duke. 68 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:29.599 I think it will help clarify things if you think 69 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:34.240 of Cooper Flag as the white KG. He is so 70 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:38.560 good at everything like KG was. KG at his peak, 71 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:41.800 was the MVP of the NBA. He could pass, he 72 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:45.240 could run, he could dribble, he could shoot. He had 73 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.439 this fluidity to this game that it seemed like he 74 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:52.240 was born to play basketball. That God himself looked at 75 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:54.639 this dude and was like, you know what, You're going 76 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:58.879 to play the sport of basketball because your body, your energy, 77 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.599 your competitiveness, all of it manifests itself in this sport 78 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:05.599 where you take a bouncy ball and throw it through 79 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:09.960 an orange ring ten feet off the ground. And it's 80 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:13.840 hard because he's white that we have a tough time 81 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:19.560 comparing him to guys other than Andrea Kira Lenko or 82 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:23.360 you know, that's an often comparison for a Cooper Flag. 83 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:27.079 And it's tough because our minds play, our mind plays 84 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.399 tricks on us that our brain wants to compare him 85 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:34.079 to someone who looks like him. And I'll remind you 86 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:38.600 that KG, the kid or the ticket he came into 87 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:41.680 the league as a as a teenager, as basically an 88 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:44.879 eighteen year old who averaged in his rookie season ten 89 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:48.839 points and six rebounds. And I will remind you that 90 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:53.560 that guy was considered the most competitive, was considered the 91 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:59.279 most menacing, was considered the most talented, also the most 92 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:04.720 unsupportive superstar of his class. You look at how long 93 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:07.199 it took for him to win a championship. I had 94 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:09.920 to go to Boston to do it. And then once 95 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:12.040 he went to Boston, people were like, oh, yeah, he's 96 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:14.439 one of the best ever to do it. And I 97 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:17.759 think Cooper Flag is built from the same mold competitive 98 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:21.759 as all had skilled in every facet of the game. 99 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:24.360 And if you remember, I think you've seen it before 100 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:29.639 Spence the clip of Team USA where KG goes length 101 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:31.680 of the court in a one on one battle with 102 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:34.680 all of his Team USA players, his teammates, and he's 103 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:37.120 not beaten. He no one beats him in a full 104 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:39.959 length one on one game where it's kind of survivor 105 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:44.079 where uh, if you don't beat him, you step aside, 106 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:47.839 and KG continues on with the next contestant, beat him, 107 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:51.680 step aside, and KG keeps going. And I think Cooper 108 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:55.439 Flag is similarly skilled in that there is no weakness 109 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:57.639 in his game that I can see, and he has 110 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.439 that competitive edge that KG has and Cooper Flag. At 111 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:04.480 this point he's just turned eighteen. I think he's six nine, 112 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:07.199 six ten. I think you can grow another inch and 113 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:11.560 I think the comparison is KG and Danny Ainge famously 114 00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:15.319 got KG to win a championship with Ray Allen and 115 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:19.120 Paul Pierce and probably has the same vision with this guy, 116 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:19.839 Cooper Flag. 117 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:22.519 You know what, you know what else stands out to 118 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:26.160 me Tom based off of his age again eighteen in December, 119 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.839 he's a young eighteen. He doesn't seem to get rattled 120 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:34.160 like at all, because there have been several moments. Look, 121 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:37.519 when you're when you're an opponent, and when you're playing 122 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:39.720 a team like Duke, and when you're playing against a 123 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:43.360 player like Cooper Flag, you know who you're playing against, 124 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.120 and you know how many eyes are on you when 125 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:48.959 you're playing in that game. And the Grant Nelson kid 126 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.879 from Alabama, you know, there have been several instances where 127 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:56.959 opposing players or opposing fans have tried to get on 128 00:06:57.079 --> 00:06:58.879 him and try to rattle him. And for an eighteen 129 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.160 year old kid, he's just done. You know, he just 130 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:04.199 goes about his business and doesn't seem to respond to 131 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:06.160 any of the uh, you know, any of the Bay 132 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:07.959 team that seems to be done in his direction. 133 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:10.480 It's pretty impressive, it is. 134 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:12.759 And this is the kind of thing that I saw 135 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:16.480 with my own two eyes, two eyes, two eyes, Looney Tunes, 136 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.439 I don't know what I'm talking about. What I saw 137 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:22.279 my own two eyes in person at Cameron Indoor was 138 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:26.160 in the second half after dealing with foul trouble. He 139 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:28.399 was unleashed, but he had to sit for much of 140 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:30.879 the first half because he picked up three early fouls, 141 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:35.000 and John Shire put him on ice to make sure 142 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:36.920 that he had him in the second half, and then 143 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:40.120 he just said go get him. And Cooper Flagg was 144 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:43.279 unstoppable the rest of the game. When his team needed him, 145 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:47.439 he rows above and he dominated. And I think at 146 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:50.839 a certain point in this season the team just kind 147 00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:53.120 of let him loose and was like, go be you 148 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:58.319 and ball dominant, ball in his hand, high pick and rolls, 149 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:00.600 playing like a guard, but on the defense into venge, 150 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:05.600 blocking every shot, deterring every shot. And I think that's 151 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:08.519 kind of the apex of Cooper flag is that there 152 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:11.399 is not a part of the game that he cannot dominate. 153 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.600 And I think in an NBA context and the right 154 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:17.199 coaching staff and the right teammates, he can be an 155 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:20.839 MVP because, like you said, he's unflappable and he has 156 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:24.680 between his two ears. I think he's got a wonderful 157 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:29.439 thing about him and edds to him that again, you 158 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:32.039 look at KG, you look at Lebron, you look at 159 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:34.879 Chris Paul, these guys who have lasted very long in 160 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:38.000 their NBA careers. It's a lot to do with how 161 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:40.399 they think about the game and that competitive edge. Stephen 162 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:43.559 Curry as well, It's just I think he has it, 163 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:46.360 and I think there's a really good reason why the 164 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:51.759 Utah Jazz have registered their first sixty loss season of 165 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:53.679 their franchise history. 166 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:55.759 So what do you think, Tom it is going to 167 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:59.279 look like, whether it's Utah or Washington or Charlotte or 168 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:03.399 wherever with Cooper right away? Because your reference Garnett's rookie 169 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:06.919 year ten point six boards, we just don't have a 170 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:11.799 lot of rookies save the Unicorn, save the Lebrons or whatever. 171 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:15.720 But most rookies come in and even if when they 172 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:19.159 are fully baked four or five years later, they're MVP candidates. 173 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:22.399 It doesn't look great right away because they're young, they're 174 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:25.240 learning how to be a pro. There is a toll 175 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:27.240 on the body, and we're seeing that with some of 176 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:30.440 the Jazz rookies hitting the proverbial rookie wall. Although I 177 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:32.000 think there are a lot of players that have won 178 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:34.200 two to three can coun this about a month ago. 179 00:09:34.279 --> 00:09:37.679 But what do you think it's gonna look like with 180 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:42.080 Cooper right away? What's a reasonable expectation stats? Generally speaking, 181 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:43.840 what do you think he can post his first year 182 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:44.799 of pro basketball. 183 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:49.399 I think somewhere in between Wemby and kg's rookie season, 184 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:52.799 something like sixteen points a game. Wemby last year as 185 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:57.120 a twenty year old, he averaged twenty one points, ten rebounds, 186 00:09:57.159 --> 00:10:01.919 three point nine assists, and three point six blocks. That's outrageous. 187 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:04.720 But he's twenty one now. He was twenty at the 188 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:07.240 end of last season. Cooper Flagg is going to be 189 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:10.480 a year younger than that, and you keep referencing it, 190 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:13.399 and I don't think people will quite understand he should 191 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:17.600 be in Debonta's class. That's how young he is. It 192 00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:19.759 is very rare to have a guy who is the 193 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:23.200 youngest guy in his class also be the best player 194 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:25.639 of his class, and that's what we have with Cooper Flag. 195 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:30.720 I suspect, you know, some of the great rookie seasons 196 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:35.039 of all time aren't necessarily the great harbingers of you know, 197 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:38.919 future success. Blake Griffin comes to mind, where he had 198 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:40.600 a year off because of it. I think it was 199 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:44.200 a foot injury, and then he came in and was 200 00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:47.720 dominant right away and just wowing people with his athleticism 201 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:52.240 and dunking everybody over, everybody in Lob City. But I 202 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:55.559 would also caution that at his peak, I think Blake 203 00:10:55.600 --> 00:11:00.600 Griffin would have had even higher peaks if he hadn't 204 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:03.279 had that injury in his first year. And just because 205 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:06.960 you averaged twenty two and twelve as a rookie, remember that, dude, 206 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.320 Blake Griffin was twenty one years old as a rookie. 207 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:14.320 So I think it's all relative and keep age. If 208 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:16.799 you've been hammering this with your audience, I think it's smart. 209 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:22.799 Guys like Cooper Flag have dominated college basketball at Duke before, 210 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:25.639 but not at this age. This is something else. This 211 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:28.799 is a unicorn of unicorns, and I think that Victor 212 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:31.879 Webbin Yama is a good proxy for what we might 213 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.200 see as a rookie. But remember Wemby was a year 214 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:37.679 older than what we're going to see Cooper flag next year. 215 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:41.240 So one more question here, then we'll move on. 216 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:43.559 You know, that's a good explanation of what you think 217 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:47.679 he can be right away as he grows, you know, 218 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:50.679 predicated of course on being in the right system with 219 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:51.240 the right coach. 220 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:53.240 Instead of eating what are you eating? 221 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:56.799 I'm washing down my own crustable Tom since you brought 222 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:00.200 it up, I have the weirdest, dumbest like don't know 223 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.480 if it's a tick. I don't know if it's a 224 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:07.879 habit that I've been doing this twenty years and I 225 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:10.759 still do not eat with enough time during the break 226 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:12.600 to come back without having to wash it down while 227 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:13.200 I'm talking it. 228 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:14.480 And look, I know. 229 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:16.360 That I'm doing it, but I just still do it. 230 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:18.879 Like Porter's good to let me know, Hey we're back 231 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:20.600 in thirty or whatever. It doesn't stop me. I'm like, 232 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:22.639 all right, that's enough time to get a peanut butter 233 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:24.919 and jam sandwich down my throat, and. 234 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:25.480 It never is. 235 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:27.559 Have you ever had goober grape? 236 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:29.480 Oh? Yes, so good? Hm? 237 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:32.320 So I do this Top Chef podcast, and this is 238 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:34.679 a detour, but I do this Top Chef podcast where 239 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.799 I interview and recap Top Chef episodes, which means I 240 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:40.840 get to interview some of the best chefs in the world. 241 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.399 And in this little serendipitous side project that I have, 242 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:49.120 I talked to Sarah Bradley, who's one of the best 243 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:52.159 chefs in the world, James Beard nominee. She's out of Kentucky. 244 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:55.919 She's incredible. And I had this confession that I was like, 245 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:59.240 I love goober grape and she goes me too, I 246 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:01.879 have it all the time, nice and it made me 247 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:04.440 feel like, you know what, it's okay, Spence, if you 248 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:06.720 need to do a lunchable or incrust the bowl or 249 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:09.919 a goober grape, that's okay. Some of the best chefs 250 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:13.159 in the world with the most pristine palettes also agree 251 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.440 it's delicious. And I do think you're onto a question 252 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:18.639 and I interrupted you so rudely. So if you'd like 253 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.279 to continue, we can, or if we want to sidebar 254 00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:23.120 this into a food podcast, we can as well. 255 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.399 I'm down to do that, just so you know. I mean, 256 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:28.720 for a little context here, I was in Vegas yesterday 257 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:33.320 for the Utah men's basketball game, and when they lost, 258 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:36.039 I booked my flight for this morning and the only 259 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:38.440 flight got me back thirty minutes before the show, so 260 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:40.759 I had to rush home, grab whatever I had to 261 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:42.440 snack on, rush back down. 262 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.039 To the studio, and here we are. So they're a. 263 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.440 Little tread off the tires, running on fumes a little bit, 264 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:49.000 but you do what you gotta do. So I will 265 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.759 reset the question and then I'll just let you run 266 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:54.240 with it, and I'll make it shorter instead of another 267 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:57.080 weird you know. Tendency I have is to be long 268 00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:59.440 with questions and too long with goodbyes. But let's move on. 269 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:02.480 What do you think Cooper Flag looks like? Fully developed 270 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:03.039 in the NBA? 271 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:06.039 Yeah, I mean maybe I should have held this, but 272 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:15.840 I think KG two way Superstar, super impressive, Leadership Skills Champion, MVP, 273 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:19.480 that's the ceiling. That's the ceiling. Victor Webbin Yama, because 274 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:23.759 of his size and his skill, I think he has 275 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:29.879 goat upside and his most recent diagnosis with deep van 276 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:34.000 Thrombosa's notwithstanding, I think if he overcomes that, he has 277 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:39.279 goat potential. Does Cooper Flag have goat potential. Look, I 278 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:47.200 think he can be a massively successful NBA player. Does 279 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:50.279 he have goat potential written on him? I don't think 280 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:53.039 in the same way that Wemby does. But I also 281 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:57.399 think that there's a tier below Wemby and Lebron and 282 00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:01.000 I would probably put Cooper Flag in their KG where 283 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:05.000 it's it's filled with guys like Shaq and Tim Duncan, 284 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.080 where it's they're not in the goat conversation, but they're 285 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.559 considered one of the very best at their position. I 286 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:15.519 think Cooper Flag somewhere in the Tim Duncan KG range 287 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:16.639 is his ceiling. 288 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:21.120 So if the Jazz draft him, okay, Because we talked 289 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:25.960 last week about this, this two tiered kind of debate 290 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.759 that's going on out here about what the Jazz would 291 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:32.399 do if they grab Cooper Flag. And after a couple 292 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.840 of shows last week, you know, they're guys over there 293 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.159 that listening to the show. They're NBA guys, and they like, 294 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:40.399 you know, guests like you and Tim and may committiment 295 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:43.159 all the guests that we have. So I've been told like, 296 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:46.480 if they are able to grab Cooper Flag, this does 297 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:49.519 not indicate they're gonna hemorrhage the rest of the roster 298 00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:51.919 and start with just him, like their timeline would start 299 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:55.600 just now. I think they like Lowry a lot. You know, 300 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:59.159 the Lowry Marketing of the past couple of years has 301 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:01.919 been forced to play in the sandbox with children, and 302 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:04.120 he was an All Stars first year here, but he 303 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:07.559 had Mike Conley next to him and some other veteran pieces. 304 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:09.679 He hasn't looked the same because he doesn't have teammates 305 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:12.159 that know how to play pro basketball yet. And I 306 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:15.200 think they love Walker, so that that would be your 307 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.600 front court. Walker Kessel, Lowry Market and Cooper Flag. I 308 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.559 have a ton of questions about almost everybody else on 309 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.360 the roster, But what do you think the Jazz would 310 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:27.919 look like next year if they basically bring back the 311 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:30.159 bulk of their roster and they add Cooper Flag to it, 312 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:30.960 what does that look like? 313 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:35.000 I think that's a playoff team if you have a 314 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:40.240 motivated Larry Markinen and a coach that understands the mission 315 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:44.120 and will hardy and understands this is less about a 316 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:48.679 development year and about a winning year. I do the 317 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:53.320 Blazers games as the analytics analytics insider, and one of 318 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.720 the things that I've been tracking is like when the 319 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:00.799 team realized it was not just in a developmental year, 320 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.360 they were in a results year. Halfway through the season, 321 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.599 they have the top five defense and an average offense, 322 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:10.559 and that resulted in a ton of winning. And sometimes 323 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:13.880 it happens that quickly, is that you think that it's 324 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:18.319 a developmental year, retooling, tanking year, whatever you want to 325 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:23.440 call it. There's a moment in time where they realize, 326 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:28.759 wait a minute, why are we trying to develop skills 327 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:31.519 without like trying to win these games. And I think 328 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:34.079 that would be the case next year. Is marketing is 329 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:38.200 good enough. I think he's tall, Klay Thompson. Offensively, he 330 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.400 might not be the point of attack defender that Clay 331 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:44.000 was at his peak, but you put that skill set 332 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.000 next to Cooper Flag and then you have a rim 333 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:51.440 protector like Walker Kessler, They're gonna win a lot of games. 334 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:53.599 And I think with the playing tournament the way it is, 335 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.039 where twenty teams have an ability to get into playoffs 336 00:17:56.119 --> 00:17:59.039 at a thirty, I think they would be very much 337 00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:04.680 in that conversation. Now, I think that would be premature 338 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.759 to suggest that that's when you build up into a 339 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:12.759 title contender, is start adding disgruntle veterans superstar players from 340 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:14.920 other teams and say, let's try to win right now 341 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:17.640 with an aging veteran. I don't think that they should 342 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:20.079 go trade for Kevin Durant this summer if they land 343 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:24.880 Cooper Flag, but if it was John Morant, or if 344 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:27.920 it's someone else that was younger and might be able 345 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.559 to be had. Deer and Fox comes to mind. With 346 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:32.880 the San Antonio Spurs, they did something like that in 347 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.839 year two. Significantly into year two they said, let's go 348 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.240 get a Deer and Fox and accelerate this timetable a 349 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.559 little bit. I could see how after year one the 350 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:47.480 Utah Jazz would reevaluate and say, all right, now, let's 351 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:52.200 go get another guy. Let's get a shooter who can 352 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:55.480 distribute the rock and not have Cooper Flag having create 353 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:58.880 everything that might happen after year one. But I think 354 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.680 in year one can realistically with Cooper Flag on the 355 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:07.960 team and with a re engineered Schwalker Kessler and Larry Markinen, 356 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:10.119 I think you could win a lot of games with 357 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:10.599 those three. 358 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:15.079 So, based off of your history, the Jazz in this well, 359 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:17.039 I'm supposed to call it a tear down, but I 360 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:22.680 will not. During this rebuild process, the draft capital that 361 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:25.920 they have received from the Gobart and the Mitchell deal, 362 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.039 bit pieces of draft capital from other deals Conley Bogdanoviconio. 363 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.559 All that stuff that combined with our own so far 364 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.720 has bred two top ten picks. One is Taylor Hendrix. 365 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.240 And I actually still think Taylor has a chance. We 366 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:43.000 just don't know because he got hurt so early, and 367 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.400 all indicators are he's getting close to, you know, getting back, 368 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:48.640 and he should be ready to start next year. So 369 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.000 I'm gonna put Taylor aside for a moment and I'm 370 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.640 gonna hone in on Cody Williams. And I'm going to 371 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:56.039 try to do this without being unfair, because he's twenty 372 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:59.119 years old playing for a team during his rookie season 373 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:02.559 without a lot of grown ups in the locker room, 374 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:04.920 you know, to really help him understand what he needs 375 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:07.839 to do. But the fact of the matter is there 376 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:11.160 just has not been much of anything Tom to look 377 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.160 at to make you think the Jazz may have made 378 00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:15.680 the right decision. I'm not saying they did or they 379 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:18.000 did not, because it would be a fool's air and 380 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.000 to anoint or dismiss a twenty year old, but they're 381 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:23.240 just you know, even when he was down with the stars, 382 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:25.799 there were moments here or there, but nothing really consistent. 383 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:29.519 And as Will has leaned into playing young players and 384 00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:32.559 giving Cody minutes and starts, you see a lot of 385 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.839 bad decisions. You don't see a lot of good shooting. 386 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.079 You don't see a lot of finishing with physicality. He 387 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:40.279 gets pushed around on defense because he's thin. I just 388 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.559 think you'll want to see a little bit more throughout 389 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:44.480 the course of the season from a top ten pick 390 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.039 to indicate that maybe you made the right decision. So 391 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:49.319 what's fair to say about a rookie year from a 392 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:51.559 young man who just simply has not shown much of 393 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.000 anything as far as promised that you know, maybe the 394 00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:55.200 Jazz made the right call there. 395 00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:59.200 It's tough because you know, the school thought of like 396 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.000 let a guy I play through his mistakes and he 397 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.839 will learn and he will get better. I think this 398 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:09.599 is more in the Tom Thibodeau school of thinking is 399 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:15.440 you've got to learn by playing, and that can hurt also. 400 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:17.920 I mean, you imagine a player that fails so much 401 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:23.519