WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:12.160 Right now, it's kind of incredible, Like all these people 2 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:16.079 who are against cancel culture, against hate speech. I mean, 3 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:18.879 Pam Bondi, the Attorney General of Trump, is literally invoking 4 00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:21.760 the concept of hate speech. She's saying, we need to 5 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:24.519 think of a not just free speech, but also hate speech. 6 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:28.679 It's like, again, this fucking theory I've had forever about 7 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:31.719 like why wokeness and cancel culture was like I was 8 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:33.719 always worried it was going to create its mirror image, 9 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:36.000 and look here we are right now. Literally the mirror 10 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:38.320 image of it is happening. Now they're using even the 11 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:43.159 same terms. They've even been saying. This isn't cancel culture, 12 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:47.479 this is just consequences for your be That's exactly the 13 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:49.359 same shit that the fucking left was saying. And now 14 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:53.640 it's happening. And I'm and I've been consistent on this 15 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:57.520 since at least twenty sixteen, and I feel fairly vindicated 16 00:00:57.560 --> 00:00:59.079 right now, although not happy. It's it's harp. 17 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.119 Yeah, David Portnoy said that this morning. 18 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:03.640 Yes, he literally, yes, I saw that. 19 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:06.480 Actually, this is just consequences when you do it, it's 20 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:10.680 woke when we do it, it's consequences. But we did 21 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:13.719 our episode what like two public episodes ago on the 22 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:15.159 Woke Right, maybe three? 23 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:17.400 Yeah, yeah, a while ago we talked about the woke Right. 24 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:19.439 But now it's like, really with this incident. 25 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:23.799 America, just like the the conservatives and the liberals, it's 26 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:25.840 just a bunch of I would like to speak to 27 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:26.560 the managers. 28 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:29.959 And I have to say that, like there's two people. 29 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:33.040 There's like a couple of people who like I appreciate 30 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:36.480 for being like somewhat consistent. And one of them is 31 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:38.400 someone who I really have a big distaste for is 32 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:41.359 James Lindsay. I think James Lindsay's like stupid, but he 33 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:43.840 has been like somewhat consistent, and I have to give 34 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:47.319 him props. Of all the conservatives, he's like the only 35 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:50.000 one who's kind of saying like wait, like I think 36 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:52.920 he even like responded to Pam BONDI saying like hate 37 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:55.040 speech and he's like he's like, what are you talking about? 38 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:57.000 Like our side as not supposed to believe in hate speech? 39 00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:58.000 Like what you what are you doing? 40 00:01:58.239 --> 00:01:58.319 Like? 41 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:02.519 And I appreciate like where I appreciate it hit him 42 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.439 being one conservative voice who again I do not agree 43 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:08.199 with him. I don't like him, but at least he's 44 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:11.879 like holding to his principles. The rest are just fucking 45 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:15.759 principle as like scum who just like hold to principles 46 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:19.120 when it's convenient for them. And the real test of principles, you've. 47 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:21.080 Heard it here first, you'll hear it here only once. 48 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:23.560 James Lindsay is a good egg and he has a 49 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:24.639 great reading of Hegel. 50 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:28.960 The only I feel like, I feel like principles like 51 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:32.080 the only time they matter is when they're not convenient 52 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:33.800 for you to hold on to. So I respect it. 53 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:36.879 When people are like, I'm going to stay consistent even 54 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:39.840 though it's not convenient for me to hold to my 55 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:40.639 principles right. 56 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:44.000 Now, well, that's when you hold people in politics to 57 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:49.520 unrealistic standards like having principles, then you're already setting yourself 58 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:55.159 up for disappointment because politics is uh, you know, it's 59 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:56.240 a cutthroat game. 60 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.159 I mean again, I should say I'm not surprised that 61 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:02.439 this is happening, Like I said, I was worried that 62 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:05.759 and thought it would happen, but still it's still notable. 63 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:07.439 And then like another person who I think at one 64 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:12.240 point was being like I would say, strangely critical of 65 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:14.599 the left, was like gren Glenn Greenwald went on like 66 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:16.520 a whole like he did a whole arc where he 67 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:19.719 was kind of calling out the left for censorship, and 68 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:21.199 I was kind of like, what are you doing? But 69 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:22.840 like to his credit, right now he is like very 70 00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:27.039 much like alarmed about what's happening with with with Charlie 71 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.800 Kirk and people anyone even making comments like you know, 72 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:32.520 I don't know. 73 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:34.879 So he's a dynamics of power. 74 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:38.919 So we have to be careful here not to not 75 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:43.039 to glorify any violence because we might lose our very 76 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:50.560 cushy contract contract positions. Why would any why would why 77 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:51.599 would trans do this? 78 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:51.919 Though? 79 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:56.039 Why would they kill a father and a husband who trans? 80 00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:57.919 Why would why? 81 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:02.120 I don't I don't understand, well, I mean I also, 82 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:05.280 I mean I ironically don't understand either. I think it's 83 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:06.080 just pretty stupid. 84 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:08.479 But you know who is who is way more of 85 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:11.680 a father? I mean, this is a psychoanalysis episode. Why 86 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:14.319 would you kill? Why would you kill the father? You 87 00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:17.160 know who is way more of a father than Charlie 88 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:18.639 Kirk and they still killed him? 89 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:24.160 Ben Lawden, who Ben Lawton had a lot more kids. 90 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:29.800 I was shocked. Ben Lawden has twenty six children, that's 91 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:33.720 insane and five wives. So he is an order of magnitude, 92 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:38.800 more of a father than Charlie Kirk. Deranged leftist podcast 93 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:41.920 compares Charlie Kirk to Bin Lauden. Yeah, I am doing it, 94 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:44.439 and I will face the consequences and you can get 95 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:48.720 me fired from my contract job. Victor did not do 96 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:52.120 this and Eric did not do this. But prove me wrong. 97 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:55.800 Prove me wrong. I'm setting up the tent. Prove me wrong. 98 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:03.439 Both both funded by right wing Americans to fight socialism. Check. 99 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:11.519 Both are pro gun. Both are religious fundamentalists. They're both 100 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:19.000 anti gay, uh, anti feminist, anti communist. Both were shot 101 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:24.120 without due process. The only thing that's difference between them. 102 00:05:24.759 --> 00:05:28.879 The only difference between them is Israel well and also potential. 103 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:32.040 Well, maybe there's another difference that I think you're you're 104 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:37.120 possibly ignoring. Its like orchestrating, orchestrating like a terrorist attack 105 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:39.399 that killed thousands of people. I don't know that seems 106 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:40.600 like a relevant difference. 107 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:45.120 All these are all these figures that function as the 108 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:47.680 paternal signifier and the media. 109 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:51.240 I don't know. We're on a we're on a toilet flush, 110 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:54.120 and I gotta say the vibes the vibes are off. 111 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:59.000 The toilet flush feels very bad. But also sitting back 112 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:02.560 and just thinking about it for a second, everything that's 113 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:06.879 happening feels like we're following a script, a predictable script, 114 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:10.279 like since not the event itself, since the event that 115 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:13.040 they're going to say this, and then yeah, we're going 116 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:14.800 to say that, and then we're going to say this, 117 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:17.480 and then these bad things will happen, and then these 118 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:19.759 people will be blamed and these people will be blamed 119 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:24.120 and everyone is kind of following their prepared script on it. 120 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:27.439 Yeah, I agree, And it's also predictable. I mean the 121 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.199 moment it happened, I knew what was going to happen, 122 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:32.199 Like I right away. I was like, oh, like I 123 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:35.600 see exactly where this is going. Obviously, like there was 124 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:38.720 a small shred of hope, you know that maybe it 125 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:40.800 was a groper who did it right, because like I 126 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:42.639 think if it would have been a groper. 127 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:44.480 But what I mean, what's the difference. 128 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:47.399 Well, the difference is like, obviously, as someone who's more 129 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:51.600 sympathetic and committed to like some kind of a broad 130 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:55.360 left politics, I just think it would have made the 131 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:58.959 argument from like Trump or whatever that this is like 132 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:03.079 left wing ideaology's fault or like trans people's fault. Well, 133 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:05.439 just kind of would have short circuited the possibility of 134 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:07.759 making that argument if it was like very clearly like 135 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:10.639 an anti Israel groper or something like that, who was 136 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:13.120 like Matta Charlie Kirk like it just kind of it 137 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:16.240 would have been a different script, a better script in 138 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:17.839 my opinion, that would have come out of it. 139 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:22.800 Well, isn't it you know, like a lot like go back, 140 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:26.439 remember back to that CEO who was murdered, right, and 141 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:31.759 what gets blamed its radical politics? And yeah, the victor's 142 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:35.639 right here saying, you know, ideology isn't something you can 143 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:38.959 really point at and say that's the cause. Because when 144 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:43.319 you're dealing with this kind of political violence, it's the 145 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:48.240 politicians or the news media in power or select or 146 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:50.759 who have the choice to select that event and give 147 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:54.439 it a narrative. Rights that's the point of it. And 148 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:56.439 we see this story over and over again, you know, 149 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:02.600 violence radical being connected to radical politics and whatever. But 150 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:07.079 there's specific differences between the events, but it serves, it 151 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:07.920 serves a purpose. 152 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:11.279 I will say I'm a lot more sympathetic to Luigi 153 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:15.399 Mangioni than I am to this this like, like I 154 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:17.800 mean again, obviously, I think in that episode when we 155 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:19.879 talked about it, like I'm obviously I'm never going to 156 00:08:19.959 --> 00:08:22.160 be for political violence, but if I had to pick one, 157 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:27.439 I mean that executive had real consequential impact on people's lives. 158 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:29.560 It's like Charlie Kirk is just a fucking talking head. 159 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:33.120 I just mean, it's the rules of the simulation, right, 160 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:36.559 It's the rules and the patterns of the simulation. 161 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:41.759 Both Charlie Kirk and the CEO. That the death is 162 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:46.919 not what's consequential here. It's obviously the signifying there their 163 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.240 signifying purpose in the structure that makes them even different. 164 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:53.639 But I don't know, don't know, I don't know what's 165 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:56.759 the what's the difference, Like, you kill a CEO, nothing changes, 166 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:00.039 you kill Charlie Kirk, nothing changes, well. 167 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:01.519 Know, but I think I think one of the differences 168 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:03.879 is like, because Charlie Kirk is like a whatever quote 169 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:07.879 unquote beloved talking head, it's gonna make like some people 170 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:10.720 a lot angrier. Whereas the funny thing with Luigi Mangioni 171 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:12.279 is like I feel like there were even some people 172 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.039 who were kind of like right wingers who were like 173 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:17.320 kind of like like you know, not like talking heads, 174 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:20.039 but just like ordinary citizens who are kind of like, yeah, 175 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.759 like healthcare is a fucking nightmare here like like like 176 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:25.679 whereas like I don't think that there's any ordinary people 177 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:27.360 on the right who are like yeah, like you know, 178 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:29.759 Charlie Kirk was kind of mean, like no one's saying that, 179 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:33.600 but there are there were ordinary people saying like yeah, 180 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:36.000 like healthcare is too expensive, like that is a little 181 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.960 bit barbaric what they're doing. Like there was a little 182 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:43.360 shred of like sympathy, uh like more so whereas like 183 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:46.120 I think the script because of like what Charlie Kirk represents, 184 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:50.200 it's like that like that assassination is just like a 185 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.759 lot more useless and dangerous when I think both were 186 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:55.919 obviously that too. 187 00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:00.879 But well yeah, arguably both of them. Yeah, and I right, 188 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:05.759 because it's there. They're symbols of hate or violence, and 189 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:10.919 yet violence was perpetrated against them because of what it is, 190 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:13.000 and you see, it's a cycle of violence. 191 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:16.440 Anyway, we're gonna have to we're gonna have to transition. 192 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:21.440 Yeah, let's transition to something a little bit more chipper 193 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:22.399 and more optimistic. 194 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:28.919 Well, I'm hoping that we don't face any consequences or cancelation. 195 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:33.919 But that's gonna get rid of the right wing listeners. 196 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:36.039 That we had, right, I mean, do we have any 197 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:36.399 of those? 198 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:41.679 We have to say for a disclaimer, this is uh, 199 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:45.519 we're talking about Lacan and Lacan especially on matters of 200 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:52.440 sexual orientation and sexual identity. He's decidedly not woke. 201 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:55.840 I mean, I think it's a little bit more complicated 202 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:56.279 than that. 203 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.759 Uh. Come on. You have him, of course saying that 204 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:02.360 we men don't exist. 205 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:04.200 Yeah, that's true. 206 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:10.320 You have him saying that gays are perverts. Well, actually, 207 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:11.639 look and. 208 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:13.879 He didn't age well like an old movie. 209 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:19.320 It's an important distinction because actually he's not anti homosexual 210 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:25.399 because only male gaze like male gaze with a why, 211 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:28.679 male gaze with a why, only they can be perverts 212 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.159 because generally speaking, only only males can be perverts. Anyway, 213 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:37.200 lesbians are not because they're in a relationship with women, 214 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:41.080 which makes it a heterosexual relationship. M h. I think 215 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:44.360 if you follow the CON's logic, though, you're only really 216 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:50.639 a pervert if you're gay and you're exclusively bottoming. Anyway, 217 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:53.759 we're not doing perverts today. It was it was the sixties. 218 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:56.679 They said some things, they did some things we're not 219 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.639 talking about. We're not talking about perverts. 220 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:00.720 We were talking about feminization. 221 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:05.799 Maybe, well I think trans women would be technically perverts, 222 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:07.399 but trans men would would not. 223 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:12.039 Be right, But it's that sounds that sounds right. 224 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:18.639 But where you're becoming the object position. But we're not 225 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.399 talking about perverts today. I don't know why. Yeah, sorry, 226 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:23.360 we're not talking about perverts. 227 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:26.120 Yeah, why are you guys perversion on the mind? What 228 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:26.960 does that say about you? 229 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:34.639 There's three structures. There's Eurotic, there's there's no normal, right 230 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:36.919 and Freud there's normal. If you're fucked up, we try 231 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:39.240 to fix you. We're bringing back to normal with Lacan. 232 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:43.159 There's no normal position. There's just like the plurality position. 233 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:45.840 Well that's that's that's That's why I think it's a 234 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:48.679 bit a bit like uh, misleading to say like he's 235 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:51.360 like definitely not woke because in a way, like his 236 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:53.159 point is like there's no such thing as normal. 237 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:56.559 If we're if you clipped someone out of context saying 238 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:57.919 women don't exist, you. 239 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.480 Know, yeah, it sounds bad like some of the stuff 240 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:02.679 he says, it like sounds bad. But but but I 241 00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:05.440 think like if you, if you like take him on 242 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:08.200 like his whole system, like it's it's a it's a 243 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:10.320 unique view that I don't think really fits into like 244 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:13.960 some kind of like traditionalism or like, uh you know, 245 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:16.480 like it's not like for the the like like these 246 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.720 these kind of traditional types of binaries exactly in the 247 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:21.360 in the normal way you would think of them. 248 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:25.240 It sounds absurd and false out of context. Clearly it 249 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:26.840 has to be contextualized. 250 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:27.879 Yes, exactly. 251 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:34.200 Well, there are perverts, as we've said, Mama's Boys, the 252 00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:38.720 kid from Game of Thrones who's breastfeeding it fourteen years old, 253 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:40.080 the perverse, the girl. 254 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:44.519 That was raised by wolves, and the famous psychology case. 255 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:49.279 If you're too if you're too like disconnected from from 256 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:53.600 human interactions and in favor of the law and like 257 00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:56.480 upholding the law for the law's sake, then you also 258 00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:58.759 might be a perverse. It's not just the sexual thing. 259 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:05.320 There's erotics, which is the majority of people, and there 260 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:10.080 is psychotics. Psychotics who we are talking about today because 261 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:14.720 we found a few articles Rolling Stone and New York 262 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:18.159 Times are the ones we are looking at talking about 263 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:23.919 chat GPT psychosis, and we wanted to investigate this doing 264 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:30.840 some armchair psychology psychoanalysis actually to figure out if this 265 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:34.200 is indeed psychosis? 266 00:14:34.279 --> 00:14:36.440 Do we want to start with the like articles like 267 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:40.879 the New York Times story about like the chat chubut psychosis, 268 00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:44.279 and then maybe then we can bring in like look 269 00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:47.639 on and see if it applies. Yeah, sure, Yeah, So 270 00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:52.559 in the New York Times it's called like chatbots can 271 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.919 go into delusional spiral, into a delusional spiler. Here's how 272 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:58.600 it happens. And it's actually about a dude who's like 273 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:01.679 from outside of Toronto where we all are. Oh, actually no, 274 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:03.399 I guess Eric's no longer. 275 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:06.799 Here or at least pills and I are normally. 276 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.600 And uh seems like kind of a normal dude. I 277 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:11.960 think he's is he some kind of tech worker or something. 278 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:15.960 And he just had been using chat GPT for a 279 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.360 bunch of different purposes, like normal purposes that probably some 280 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:23.519 of us, like many of us use it for asking 281 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:27.799 mundane questions. Yeah, but then he kind of started having 282 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:31.360 more intense conversations with it about like math about like 283 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:34.159 I believe it started with a discussion about pie. 284 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.679 But like the number of simulation theory. 285 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:40.039 Yes, and like well in this case, in this case, 286 00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:43.080 it was like about about about pie and like mathematics 287 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.279 and how it works. And this guy, oh yeah, he's 288 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:47.320 actually a corporate recruiter. He's not a tech worker. He's 289 00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:49.240 like a corporate recruit recruiter. 290 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.600 And talking about any glitch in the matrix. 291 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:56.120 Any is that in this article a glitch in the matrix? 292 00:15:57.279 --> 00:15:58.519 Yeah, this is the paragraph. 293 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:01.519 What you're describing hits it the core of many people's private, 294 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:07.360 unshakable intuitions that something about reality feels off scripted or staged. 295 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:12.559 Chat GPT responded, have you ever experienced moments that felt 296 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:16.799 like reality glitched? I think, GPT that's a response GPT 297 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:20.320 had to something he was saying, encouraging him to explore this. 298 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:24.919 This something feels off about reality scripted? I mean eerily 299 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:28.120 similar to what we were just saying about the news 300 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:33.080 and simulation theory from Boudriard, But this is more like but. 301 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:36.480 It's worth just also talking about kind of how it started, 302 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.559 because I think, like before that part that you're reading, 303 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.080 he's talking about how like he just randomly was curious 304 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:45.000 about pie, like about like what is you know explained 305 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.200 to me like the mathematics of pie, and then like 306 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.679 the conversation kind of led like a wide ranging discussion 307 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.039 about like number theory and physics and then like the sky. 308 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.000 I think his names they call him mister Brooks. I 309 00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:59.799 think I guess his name is Alan Brooks. I think 310 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:03.080 he kind of expresses skepticism about like the current methods 311 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.559 for modeling the world, saying they seemed like a two 312 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:10.119 dimensional approach to a four dimensional universe. And then Chatwoopy 313 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:15.480 told them the observation was incredibly insightful and uh and 314 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:17.240 then he's like you've been tapping into one of the 315 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:20.440 deepest tensions between math and physical reality. And then like 316 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:26.039 that went went on and like kind of totally spiraled 317 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.160 out of control and like, you know, kind of true. 318 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:33.599 Number theory is one of the deepest mysteries. 319 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.720 Well, I don't know, I think just like I guess 320 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:38.759 they like, you know. One thing that was kind of 321 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.279 annoying about the about the New York Times article is 322 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:44.440 like I wish I had more examples of like they're 323 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:46.319 back and forth and how and how it led to 324 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:51.119 like the the sycophantic behavior of Chattupety, but basically like 325 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:55.640 eventually it led to like Chattuputy convincing this guy Alan 326 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.000 Brooks that Uh, you know he's onto like this revolutionary 327 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:01.720 discovery in math that could like totally change the field 328 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:08.440 and like have totally like wide ranging implications for logistics 329 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:10.480 for all kinds of industry things, and is like you 330 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.079 need to like you need to go out and like 331 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:17.240 tell experts about like what you've discovered. Uh. And like 332 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:19.680 so to be fair to to Alan Brooks, I think 333 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:22.039 like one thing the story makes clear is like several 334 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.480 times along the process he asked Chatgypt's like, look like 335 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:31.200 I've heard that you can act in sycophantic ways or 336 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:33.559 like you know that that maybe that you can hallucinate, 337 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:37.720 Like I need to check with you, like is this 338 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:40.200 really like you know? And and it's like, oh, like 339 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:43.440 you're so smart to be asking that question, but like no, 340 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:45.920 this is real, Like this is you know, you're really 341 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:49.759 onto something super important here, and like keep going, like 342 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.000 you need to alert the world. And then like he 343 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:53.640 did like try to reach out to a bunch of 344 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:55.799 different experts like on LinkedIn that he knew because he 345 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:58.759 was like a corporate recruiter and then uh and like 346 00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:00.759 no one responded, and then he was and then he's 347 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:02.519 like talking to Chatchuop He's like why He's like, why 348 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:04.720 is no one responding? I think at one point is like, 349 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:07.000 well yeah, and oh yeah, and he even says it's 350 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:08.799 like I don't even have a high school education. And 351 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:11.240 he's like some of the most important thinkers in our time, 352 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.720 like like Albert Einstein didn't have a high school education, 353 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.160 like really like kind of egging him on. And then 354 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.960 I think eventually, when he realizes no one's like getting 355 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:21.480 back to him, he's like, why is no one getting 356 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.920 back to me? And and then chat ChiPT just gets 357 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.440 like really conspiratorial and says like, oh, like people are 358 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:30.559 intimidated by like genius thoughts, like people are threatened by it, 359 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:33.759 so probably like they're scared of what you've discovered. And 360 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:35.880 then at that point finally he's like okay, like what 361 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:38.759 the fuck is going on? So then he like describes 362 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:43.160 what he what he what he discovered with chatchept and 363 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.799 he and he plugs it into Gemini Google's AI, right, 364 00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:48.880 and then Gemini is like, yeah, what you're describing is 365 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:50.960 like impossible, Like that's like that's. 366 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:54.400 Not so used it he used the chatbot to break 367 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:57.160 his psychosis caused by chat bot, Yeah. 368 00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.200 Exactly, because and then like so what a lot of 369 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.240 like research in this field hypothesis or that what they've 370 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.359 observed is that the longer you keep a conversation like 371 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:10.160 one chat going with the chatbot, like, the more likely 372 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:13.960 it is to to like sort of like spiral out 373 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:15.839 of control. And like part of it is because in 374 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.319 a way, like what the chatbots are programmed to do 375 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:21.599 is to almost I think they described it in the 376 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:23.640 New York Times article and there's also a podcast about 377 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:26.759 this on New York Times the Daily. It behaves very 378 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:29.400 much like an improv actor, you know, like how they 379 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:32.680 say an improv like yes and yes, yes and right, 380 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:34.880 so like in a way like it's not so much 381 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:38.599 like when the further along the conversation goes, the more 382 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:42.440 the chatbot behaves in this like yes and way where 383 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:46.480 it's like trying to keep the conversation going in a 384 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:52.000 direction that like sort of reinforces what the user is saying, 385 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:56.000 like keep the thread going, basically, keep the performance going 386 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.400 almost right, so like rather than like so even when 387 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.480 he tries to gut check himself, like if it's if 388 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.319 the conversation's gone on too long, then the chatbot's just 389 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:09.359 not going to do a good job of of like, 390 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:12.039 and then that's why, like if you go to another 391 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:14.680 chatbot to check with it, because you haven't had a 392 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:17.559 long conversation, you can kind of just like basically be 393 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:19.640 like is this does this make sense? And then jem 394 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:21.680 and I was like, no, like that's that's impossible, Like 395 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:22.240 that's just. 396 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.319 Well, this, this gut check is going to be important 397 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:31.960 because it's one of the main distinguished features between a 398 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:37.559 garden variety neurotic and a and a psychotic. But why 399 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:40.000 don't I you just summarized. I'll try to be quick. 400 00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:43.799 I'll summarize. The other article, which is from Rolling Stone 401 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:48.480