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<v Speaker 1>Hi, were you looking around in yournet for something interesting

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<v Speaker 1>to launch? Well you found us, so you got lucky,

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<v Speaker 1>and we are going to talk about a really interesting

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<v Speaker 1>story that comes from Northern Ireland and Jonathan's going to

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<v Speaker 1>take us there. So Jonathan take us from Ireland.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Sure. Northern Ireland schools are not immune to the

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<v Speaker 2>culture wars. Christian versus secular education is starting to clash

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit, mainly issues like abortion and gender identity

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<v Speaker 2>in their relationship and sexuality education, which is a course

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<v Speaker 2>I guess they have. These are causing a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>pearl clutching on the evangelical side. They represented of the

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<v Speaker 2>Evangelical Alliance of Northern Ireland. Mister Smyth was discussing in

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<v Speaker 2>the article that it seems the school system is teaching

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<v Speaker 2>inappropriate sexual information that includes quote unquote dangerous practices. He

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<v Speaker 2>insists that does not want to start culture war and

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<v Speaker 2>wants to find common ground. He also pointed out that

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<v Speaker 2>some RSC materials also contain scientifically inaccurate content which confuses

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<v Speaker 2>and conflates biological sex with gender identity whatever that means.

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<v Speaker 2>The idea that coming out is a thing Christians do

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<v Speaker 2>is notably a false narrative, a blatant attempt at co

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<v Speaker 2>optation of the coming out process and claiming victimhood. Essentially,

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<v Speaker 2>they are not discriminated against. You can't be discriminated against

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<v Speaker 2>if you're in the majority, So they do not come

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<v Speaker 2>out as definitely, even if one's admitting religious religion was

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<v Speaker 2>similar to coming out LGBTQ plus, it would be overshadowed

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<v Speaker 2>by the difference that a severely oppressed group versus a

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<v Speaker 2>majority socially accepted group. This is not a reasonable position.

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<v Speaker 2>There is no comparison. The comparison is ridiculous and even

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<v Speaker 2>comical if we're not an obvious, devious and obvious ploy

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<v Speaker 2>So this article is by Andre Kumar Christian Post Monday,

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<v Speaker 2>November eleventh, twenty twenty four. And what does the panel think?

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<v Speaker 3>You know?

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<v Speaker 1>I was let's go to Cindy first. What was your

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<v Speaker 1>main daughter takeaway from Smith's testimony?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I just had one thought about this idea. Maybe

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<v Speaker 3>maybe it has to do with the fact that one

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<v Speaker 3>of the two groups oppresses all kinds of minorities in

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<v Speaker 3>over the world, rapes children and then covers it. Tries

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<v Speaker 3>to suppress any dissent in voice, whether it's scientifically or

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<v Speaker 3>politically and does whatever it can to keep the ad

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<v Speaker 3>epidemical live in Africa, while the other one is just

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<v Speaker 3>some people trying to be accepted as they are. Maybe

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<v Speaker 3>this has something to do with the reason why one

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<v Speaker 3>is more accepted than the other. Please christian please, I

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<v Speaker 3>beg you, please stop with the fake victimization. Please, We're

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<v Speaker 3>not the egest anymore. We we know, we know the reality.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh And and the the article ends with with this question,

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<v Speaker 3>is it secular blasphemy to believe that a man cannot

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<v Speaker 3>biologically become a woman? So no, it's not. Actually it's

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<v Speaker 3>not secular blasphemy because blasphemy is totally made up concepts.

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<v Speaker 3>It is, however, transphobic to insinuate that trans women are

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<v Speaker 3>not women. Gender identity is not such a complex topic

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<v Speaker 3>that it can be explained even to children. It just

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<v Speaker 3>requires the constructing a lot of false idea appropriated by Christianity.

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<v Speaker 3>Though yeah, I was.

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<v Speaker 1>I was trying to find what exactly toward the real

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<v Speaker 1>problems that Smith had with these guideline, these new guidelines,

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<v Speaker 1>and I I actually could not find any better story

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<v Speaker 1>than the one we had that had more details. I

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<v Speaker 1>was able to find an article that he actually authored

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<v Speaker 1>outlining the dangers of these new guidelines, and one of

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<v Speaker 1>them was that this new regulation, I'm going to read

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<v Speaker 1>it out to you because it's amazing that the new

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<v Speaker 1>program will make age appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate education

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<v Speaker 1>on sexual and reproductive health and rights, covering prevention of

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<v Speaker 1>early pregnancy and access to abortion a compulsory component of

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<v Speaker 1>the curriculum for adolescents. Now, the Education Secretary is indicated

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<v Speaker 1>that this should be done in a factual way that

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<v Speaker 1>does not advocate nor oppose a particular view on the

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<v Speaker 1>moral and ethical considerations of abortion or contraception. I mean, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>how horrible is that? What kind of stand is that

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<v Speaker 1>to take? Is that what the church is really opposing?

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<v Speaker 1>Then who's in the wrong here? Because I aj I

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<v Speaker 1>found the story shocking. What did you find shocking about it? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>I found this story shocking, but in a good way. Okay,

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<v Speaker 4>in one of the aspects, because it seems like Ireland

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<v Speaker 4>is doing such a good job at keeping things secular,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, keeping religion and religious I got it.

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<v Speaker 1>I got to point out and I made the mistake

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<v Speaker 1>earlier today about calling Northern Ireland Ireland Northern Ireland is

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<v Speaker 1>great Britain, It's not Ireland. I want to say that

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<v Speaker 1>to all my Irish fronts because they will take that

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<v Speaker 1>to heart.

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<v Speaker 4>So yeah, I should probably make that correction as well. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>So it seems that, you know, Northern Ireland is doing

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<v Speaker 4>such a good job at keeping religion and religious groups

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<v Speaker 4>out of public spaces that this has prompted mister Smike

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<v Speaker 4>from the Evangelical Alliance to publicly share the displeasure with

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<v Speaker 4>the fact that kids are having an easier time expressing

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<v Speaker 4>their sexuality and coming out as LGBTQ, then they are

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<v Speaker 4>expressing their Christian faith. And if I'm being honest, the

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<v Speaker 4>day that this happens in America will be a day

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<v Speaker 4>to celebrate. It's the complete opposite issue of what we

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<v Speaker 4>are seeing in the United States. And maybe the US

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<v Speaker 4>needs to take a look at whatever Northern Ireland is doing,

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<v Speaker 4>because whatever it is, they're doing the right thing by

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<v Speaker 4>keeping science education in school and religious stop trends at home.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree, I agree. I think the government, the

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<v Speaker 1>British government itself, is doing a great job. I would

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<v Speaker 1>expect some kind of like religious kickback from people in Ireland.

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<v Speaker 1>I know it's gone to become more secular in the

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<v Speaker 1>last couple of decades, but Ireland has traditionally been a

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<v Speaker 1>very conservative religious country. John, did you get the idea

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<v Speaker 1>that Smith was trying to push us religious views onto

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<v Speaker 1>the school system and make the school system teach that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what I kind of got the sense that common

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<v Speaker 2>ground means their way or the highway. In other words,

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<v Speaker 2>when the school doesn't need to change anything. They're doing

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<v Speaker 2>it right now. You know what they want is they

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<v Speaker 2>say that they're being not discriminated against, but they're being

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<v Speaker 2>pushed out of the curriculum little by little, and they

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<v Speaker 2>want to have a space for them to make sure

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<v Speaker 2>that their views and their beliefs are maintained for not

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<v Speaker 2>just their students, but you know, everybody. So what they

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<v Speaker 2>don't put together in their heads is that that is

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<v Speaker 2>putting religion in the schools, which is not a good idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Their space needs to be eliminated, not created. And so

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<v Speaker 2>this is just another way of phrasing things in such

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<v Speaker 2>a way that don't seem harmful to everybody. We're just

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<v Speaker 2>trying to create our space so that we can have

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<v Speaker 2>our beliefs and you know, treat everybody equally. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>blah blah blah. It's excuse me, it's not equality. It

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<v Speaker 2>is trying to push your beliefs onto children. This happens

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<v Speaker 2>in the United States all the time. They always word

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<v Speaker 2>it in such a way that everybody is like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>that can't be so bad until you start picking it

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<v Speaker 2>apart and saying, yeah, it's bad. You know. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>they're they're going with that, we're so oppressed. We're making

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<v Speaker 2>our children learn the truth about sex. Oh my god,

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<v Speaker 2>pearl clutching again, and teaching what is scientifically wrong conflating

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<v Speaker 2>biological sex and gender. Actually, no, they're probably teaching that

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<v Speaker 2>gender is fluid and biological sex has more than two sexes,

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<v Speaker 2>which is just a fact, you know. So it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>I get really kind of just inflamed as the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that people can deceive half truth and outright lie about

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<v Speaker 2>things to try and get their way and try and

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<v Speaker 2>get their their ideology or their thing thrown into a school. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm all for teaching the ideology and whatnot of Christianity

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<v Speaker 2>in the appropriate class comparative religion. If there is another

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<v Speaker 2>philosophical point that might be in a philosophy class or

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<v Speaker 2>a theology class, that's fine. That's where it belongs, does

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<v Speaker 2>not belong in a generalized curriculum for all students. That

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<v Speaker 2>is a little bit over the line. So that's all

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<v Speaker 2>I have for that, boll.

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<v Speaker 1>That was quite a bit, And I hope that's not

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<v Speaker 1>all you have because I'm going to call on you again.

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<v Speaker 1>So I want to talk to Cindy, But before I do,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to ask Aja one more question, because Cindy,

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<v Speaker 1>I want you. I kind of want you to wrap

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<v Speaker 1>this up because there was something in the last part

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<v Speaker 1>of the story that got to me, and I know

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<v Speaker 1>I think it got you as well, So I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to jump to the end of the story yet.

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<v Speaker 1>But AJ, do you think the abortion question was the

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<v Speaker 1>main catalyst for Smith's testimony? It seemed like the headline

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<v Speaker 1>was about Christians being Christian kids being more or harder

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<v Speaker 1>for them to come out and gay kids. But I

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<v Speaker 1>think that the abortion question was really what made him

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<v Speaker 1>go testify. What do you think?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I agree. I think that one of the main

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<v Speaker 4>things that may have set off mister Smike is the

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<v Speaker 4>fact that the former Northern Ireland Secretary Chris Head and

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<v Speaker 4>Harris had passed some new regulations in twenty twenty three

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<v Speaker 4>that would make it mandatory for all post primary schools

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<v Speaker 4>in Northern Ireland to teach about access to abortion and

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<v Speaker 4>prevention of early pregnancy. And you know, this was set

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<v Speaker 4>to start at the next school year, so I think

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<v Speaker 4>he was in a rush. You know, he has us

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<v Speaker 4>concerns that the Christian perspective is becoming more and more

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<v Speaker 4>excluded in school environments. He was quoted saying that there

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<v Speaker 4>are some specific areas where the views of evangelical questions

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<v Speaker 4>and many Catholics and Muslims are very distinctive, for example abortion.

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<v Speaker 4>But I mean, since when are evangelical Christians considered about Muslims.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know about that. That's a new one. But

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<v Speaker 4>he claims that he wanted to make sure that the

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<v Speaker 4>education about sensitive is just like abortion or sexual identity,

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<v Speaker 4>did not subject students to what he calls ideological pressures.

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<v Speaker 4>And this was really ironic because that's the definition of

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<v Speaker 4>religious indoctrination. Ideological pressure.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that is it. That is it. You know what,

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<v Speaker 1>I am going to come back to Sydy. We'll get

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<v Speaker 1>back to you again the third time. What what was

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think was h I'm going to ask

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<v Speaker 1>you the same thing. I asked, AJ, what do you

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<v Speaker 1>think with smit, I'm going to call him Smith because

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<v Speaker 1>in England they would call him Smith. What do you

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<v Speaker 1>think was Smith's mame motivation for testimony for testimony testifying.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I'm not in his head. But what

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<v Speaker 3>what I notice is that uh, this culture war h

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<v Speaker 3>L so it's called that's brewing in the in the US,

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<v Speaker 3>it is spreading and in this what what the far

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<v Speaker 3>right has been very effective at is to regroup all

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<v Speaker 3>those issues abortion, a, gay rights, uh, trans uh trans

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<v Speaker 3>rights even even healthcare sometimes and and all that is

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<v Speaker 3>lumped into the far left ideology like it's it's the

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<v Speaker 3>same thing when when uh someone in Congress proposes a

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<v Speaker 3>law to prevent one trans woman, uh who has been

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<v Speaker 3>elected in in in Congress to use women's bathroom, one

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<v Speaker 3>woman and they're going to try to pass a law

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<v Speaker 3>to prevent her. So's it's it's just you know, when

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<v Speaker 3>when we tend to say that trying to deconvert Christians

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<v Speaker 3>is hard because sometimes you hit a wall and anything

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<v Speaker 3>you say, they just push it back. It seems to

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<v Speaker 3>be the same psychological and intellectual mechanism here. If you

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<v Speaker 3>start talking about abortion. Then they fight back for every

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<v Speaker 3>other topics in this work agenda, as they call it.

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<v Speaker 3>So I don't know how we can fight this other

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<v Speaker 3>than education. The problem is, how do you educate people

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<v Speaker 3>on the definition of gender identity? For example? You can

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<v Speaker 3>only do it in a secular environment, but even then

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<v Speaker 3>you're going to have people like him complaining that it's

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<v Speaker 3>you know, grooming the kids or something like that. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>it's a little bit despairing, discouraging, but yeah, we're doing

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<v Speaker 3>what we can here on the non profits. We're trying

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<v Speaker 3>to explain things, and so that's what we do.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you're right though about like American trans bigotry spreading.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems almost like we're exporting a lot of hate

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<v Speaker 1>from this country and it's pretty sad. And another commentary

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<v Speaker 1>on what you said, Nancy Mays, who's the representative who

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<v Speaker 1>put in the bill to stop the Sarah McBride, the

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<v Speaker 1>trans woman from using the same bathroom. This may end

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<v Speaker 1>up backfiring on her. I saw this happen in another

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<v Speaker 1>place in the workplace, and they just created a third

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<v Speaker 1>bathroom and the trans person ended up with their own

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<v Speaker 1>private bathroom, So that'd be awesome. Sarah McBride ended up

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<v Speaker 1>with their own private bathroom. That'd be great. So Jonathan, though,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get back to you. What did you think Smith

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<v Speaker 1>is really trying to protect children from You mentioned the

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<v Speaker 1>truth earlier. Do you think that's what it is and

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<v Speaker 1>he's just trying to keep people from the truth.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that what he's really trying to do is

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<v Speaker 2>inject himself and his religion into the school. I think

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<v Speaker 2>all of these things are dodges and created hysteria, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>so that he can get his religion as ingrain in

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<v Speaker 2>something in the school, even if it's subtly. So this

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<v Speaker 2>is just I think he's feeling out the situation and

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<v Speaker 2>seeing is this ever going to go any place? Can

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<v Speaker 2>I push here? Am I going to get a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of pushback? Or can I kind of like incrementally get

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<v Speaker 2>in here and do something?

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<v Speaker 3>You know?

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<v Speaker 2>And it's all in order to it sounds a lot

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<v Speaker 2>like we need to come together to protect the children

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<v Speaker 2>from the truth. Unfortunately, but that's what the problem is

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<v Speaker 2>because the secular side thinks, yes, protecting children's good, but

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<v Speaker 2>they're saying they're protecting it from LGBTQ people and all

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<v Speaker 2>this other stuff, which is not okay with secular people.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like using the words and leaving out the

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<v Speaker 2>description is a way they deceive people and there thinking, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>protecting the kids is a good thing. That's where in

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<v Speaker 2>the United States we got to a lot of this

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<v Speaker 2>bullshit is because they kept using nice language and people

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<v Speaker 2>got wrapped up in it, wrapped up in it. Then

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<v Speaker 2>it was used to demonize the opposition, and that's where

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<v Speaker 2>we've rolled into this whole problem we got now. So

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<v Speaker 2>they don't want common ground, they want the ground period,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. So this is just their way of saying, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to keep trying to do this until you

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<v Speaker 2>get bored at looking at it and let us in.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, don't do it. You know, you know, this

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<v Speaker 2>whole thing about regarding the teaching of healthy relationships, for them,

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<v Speaker 2>that's one man, one woman, uh cis heteronormative relationships. All

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of us are just taken and thrown out

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<v Speaker 2>the wind. That baby with the bath water, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just throw us out. Consent and preventing violence against women

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<v Speaker 2>and girls, that's the one thing Christianity is not very

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<v Speaker 2>good at doing ever in the last five thousand years.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, from the Jews, forward notes there.

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<v Speaker 1>He does seem to genuinely think that there are no

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<v Speaker 1>no morals unless you follow his strict religious views right exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>He doesn't think that anybody else has the right way

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<v Speaker 2>of thinking. So that's one of the things that they

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<v Speaker 2>use this language. But they really their intentions are not

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<v Speaker 2>to just be tolerant, you know. They're they're of everybody,

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<v Speaker 2>and then keep their positions in the line in people's

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<v Speaker 2>eyes so that they can get somebody following them. That

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<v Speaker 2>this is all about a very insidious kind of gradual takeover.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, We're going to pick away at it until

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<v Speaker 2>we get something large done that allows us to slide in,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And that's exactly how they do this. They

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<v Speaker 2>start with these let's save the children from this, let's

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<v Speaker 2>do this, and then we want to ban this book,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, that's the next thing you see, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>And we want to make sure that there's no don't

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<v Speaker 2>say gay, you know, so that the kids don't even

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<v Speaker 2>know that gay people exist. They want them to learn

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<v Speaker 2>all their sexuality from the streets, you know, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>not a good place to learn about sexual health or relationships.

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<v Speaker 1>No, that's not true, John. They want them to learn

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<v Speaker 1>about it in the church.

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<v Speaker 2>No, but that's not where kids pick it up from.

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<v Speaker 1>I understand, because that's not where I picked it up

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<v Speaker 1>at it I'll tell you what. But yeah, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>I agree with you, but that but where they want

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<v Speaker 1>them to pick it up at is in the church, right,

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<v Speaker 1>because that goes back to what I was saying before.

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<v Speaker 1>Unless you have our strict religious morals, then you are

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<v Speaker 1>just any moral piece of scum, right, And I think

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<v Speaker 1>we see that through almost all theology is if you

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<v Speaker 1>don't follow my idea of God, then you can't be

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<v Speaker 1>a moral person. And I've also often wondered why that

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<v Speaker 1>idea came and you don't see it in all religions,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I mean, Hindus are a little bit more tolerant,

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<v Speaker 1>but you definitely see it in Christianity and Islam.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, we're unless you're in India.

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<v Speaker 1>Now she wants to say, I can see she's boiling

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<v Speaker 1>over there.

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<v Speaker 4>No, yeah, yeah, I had something common to make that

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<v Speaker 4>Jonathan made about Smith claiming that he wants to find

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<v Speaker 4>common ground, and I'm like, I'm wondering, is it really

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<v Speaker 4>common ground that he's after?

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<v Speaker 3>Al?

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<v Speaker 4>Does he want the church doctrine to prevail against what

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<v Speaker 4>he calls scientifically inaccurate. And you know, I imagine that

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<v Speaker 4>he would be okay with ben in any reference to

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<v Speaker 4>biological sex and gender in order to erase the existence

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<v Speaker 4>of trans people, just like what we're seeing here in

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<v Speaker 4>the United States, right, And like, what would he consider

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<v Speaker 4>a healthy relationship, My guess is abstinence, I know, sex

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<v Speaker 4>before marriage, no contraception, since he's against his personal Catholic doctrine.

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<v Speaker 4>Like I don't think he wants common ground. I think

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<v Speaker 4>he wants church in schools again.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, he's saying that he's, uh, he's concerned

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<v Speaker 1>about ensuring the teaching of things of sensitive issues such

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<v Speaker 1>as it is almost a direct quote from such as abortion,

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<v Speaker 1>differing sexual identities, allowing for space for students are not

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<v Speaker 1>subjected to ideological pressures. And then what I see there

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<v Speaker 1>is him saying that, hey, we don't want to be

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<v Speaker 1>treated the same way we've been treating people for years.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And his last plea in the group's views for

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<v Speaker 2>being marginalized in schools setting and and and I say yes,

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<v Speaker 2>and rightly so, just say no to religion in schools.

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<v Speaker 2>That's it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And you know you know what he what he

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<v Speaker 3>would respond to that, I don't want school in religion.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's city that that last part of the story,

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<v Speaker 1>that last line there kind of got to both of us.

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<v Speaker 1>I think for the same reason, you want to share

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<v Speaker 1>your ideas about secular blasphemy with us.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think it's just nonsense. Blasphemy is what insults

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<v Speaker 3>against God, and so they cannot be secular blasphemy. So

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<v Speaker 3>but by definition it's worthless. But I get what he's

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<v Speaker 3>trying to say here. It's to say that secularism is

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<v Speaker 3>a doctrine and therefore we have to accept it, and

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<v Speaker 3>we are trying to force it on them, which is

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<v Speaker 3>not true. Secularism is not a doctrine. Is just keep

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<v Speaker 3>your church and your beliefs at home, and we in

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<v Speaker 3>this collective space that we're sharing, then everyone keeps their

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<v Speaker 3>religion at home, and we do whatever we can to

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<v Speaker 3>find a better way to live together. But the only

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<v Speaker 3>way we can do that is so that everyone with

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<v Speaker 3>their different religion and different beliefs and different way of lives,

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<v Speaker 3>keep that to themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>Awesome