WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:09.800 Oh jis boat. It's showtime. People pay good money to 2 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:10.560 see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.560 When they go out to a theater. They want cold sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.199 hot popcorn in no monsters in the protection booth. 5 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.199 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:44.960 Cut it off. The whole to me was a woitch hunt, 7 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:50.920 and it was a joke. You know, it's a cliche, 8 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:54.359 mind blowing, but that's what it was. I said, that's 9 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:55.520 the damnedest. 10 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:57.280 Thing I've ever seen in my forest service career. 11 00:00:57.320 --> 00:00:59.640 I've never seen anything like that. What in the world is. 12 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:00.000 Going on. 13 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:07.840 When you start out on any case, you don't know 14 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:10.439 where you're going to wind up or if you're going 15 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:11.280 to solve it. 16 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:16.439 Had to do it the mountain. 17 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:24.120 It's Mount Shasta. You can't keep anything a secret in 18 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:25.040 Mount Shasta. 19 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:32.040 Dude, you're famous, famous. 20 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:32.319 Yeah. 21 00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:35.359 The FBI is here, the US Pharmas Service are here. 22 00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:37.920 They want to talk to you about digging a hole. 23 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:39.280 They kind of think you did it. 24 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:46.599 They were trying to plan something like what's going on? 25 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:51.560 Like if I got myself into something, what happens when 26 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:52.079 we find it? 27 00:01:54.920 --> 00:01:58.480 Whoever was digging this whole, whatever reason they might have had, 28 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:02.400 all of this crazy surrounding all of the theories. That's 29 00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:08.000 all part of it. And when people don't have, you know, 30 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:11.639 any facts to work from, you know that just slaves 31 00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:13.879 a hole that can be filled in with anything. 32 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:25.960 Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of the Projection Booth. 33 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:28.439 On this episode, I'm talking with Elijah Sullivan. He is 34 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:32.960 the writer, director, producer of The Whole Story That's hol E. 35 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:37.919 It is a documentary about a hole, a giant hole 36 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:41.560 that was found right by Mount Shasta. We talk a 37 00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:45.639 lot about Mount Shasta and the atmosphere around that place, 38 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:48.879 as well as this whole and how he came to 39 00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:52.639 make a documentary his first feature length film, and had 40 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:56.680 a wonderful time watching it. I believe that you might 41 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:59.360 be able to see it at the slam Dance Channel 42 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:03.840 site slam Dance channel dot com. But yeah, definitely track 43 00:03:03.879 --> 00:03:05.520 it down and check it out. I think you will 44 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.840 have a great time. Thanks so much for listening, and 45 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:10.159 I hope you enjoyed the interview. Tell me a little 46 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:13.120 bit about you before you even got into filmmaking, or 47 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:14.960 how did you decide to get into filmmaking. 48 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:18.479 Oh, I'm one of those folks who knew I wanted 49 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:22.159 to do this when I was maybe fourteen something like that. 50 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:26.919 I'd always been the creative create, not in a self 51 00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:29.639 congratulatory way, but like I was always interested in the arts, 52 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:33.039 and it was more like the dabbling went in the 53 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:36.360 other direction, like maybe I should try something practical, and 54 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:38.840 kept getting detoured and would have to come back and 55 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:40.800 be like, no, I'm not good at anything else. I 56 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:44.439 don't want to anything else. In fact, when I first 57 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:49.039 heard about this specific story, my initial instinct around it, 58 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.479 as silly as it sounds, was maybe I could turn 59 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:54.360 this into a newspaper article and get a job at 60 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:56.319 the paper, because at the time I was trying to 61 00:03:56.360 --> 00:03:59.199 do journalism. How long ago was that that you heard 62 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:03.199 about this, Oh, it was twenty twelve, a little bit ago. 63 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:05.120 It was a little bit ago. It took a long 64 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:08.319 time to get the I thought when I decided to 65 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.479 make this into a documentary, I thought, this takes place 66 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:13.280 literally up the street from my house. It's a community 67 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:15.680 of thirty five hundred people. I know some of the 68 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:17.920 people involved already. This shouldn't take too long. 69 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:23.399 Famous last words, all right, So when did you decide, Okay, 70 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:26.000 I am going to make this a movie. I'm going 71 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:27.199 to make this a documentary. 72 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:30.319 It was probably a couple of years later, I think, 73 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:35.160 when I started digging into asking around, assuming that it 74 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:38.399 would be easy to solve this mystery, and meeting some 75 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.720 initial resistance. Then I went out, does that mean that 76 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.160 the craziest version of this story that I heard is true? 77 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:48.639 Is that why people aren't hesitant to speak about it? 78 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:52.519 And it took a couple of years and then I'm 79 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:54.160 not sure which year this was, I imagine it was 80 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:58.639 maybe twenty fifteen. I distinctly remember a specific day where 81 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.480 I was lying in bed for just waking up thinking 82 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:05.079 about that it was a really good story and the 83 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:06.759 folks who were telling me that I should make a 84 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:11.160 documentary about it were correct? And why was I hesitating 85 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:13.720 to make it myself? Because when I thought about anybody 86 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:17.000 else making it, I was not only a little bit jealous, 87 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:20.079 but I went, they're gonna mess it up. I may 88 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:22.879 not know how to make a movie yet, but I've 89 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:26.120 seen all of that. Whenever Mount Shasta turns up in media, 90 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:28.920 it's always something like ancient Aliens or something like that, 91 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:32.199 which is really fun, but it's one specific take on 92 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.240 the subject. And I knew I wanted to see something 93 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:38.160 that was a different take. Mount shast has been in 94 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:42.199 the media and various different TV shows and books, and 95 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:46.800 it has its own little niche in pop culture, and 96 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.319 it's usually presented in one of two ways. One is 97 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:53.040 what I would call overly credulous things like ancient aliens, 98 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:56.519 where every single theory is true, all the most bizarre stuff, 99 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.360 Bigfoot is abducting and eating people, like the crazy, most 100 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:06.000 sensationalistic stuff. And also just basically overcredulously repeating things that 101 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:10.600 I would consider material out of like cult propaganda Pamphletskay, 102 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:13.720 maybe we shouldn't promote that too loudly, because I see 103 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.040 where that pipeline ends. When I bump into these people 104 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:19.839 on the street. I'm all her people practicing any religion 105 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:22.759 they want. But I think when it comes to this 106 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:27.360 specific type of cultural scenario we have in Mount Shasta, 107 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:29.680 I would put a buyableware thing, a couple stuff just 108 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:31.759 to be like, just see, you know these folks over here, 109 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.040 These people are pretty nice. There's a couple of things 110 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:37.319 you might want to know about these people. And then 111 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:39.800 the other end of the spectrum is the people who 112 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:45.079 are maybe excessively incredulous, where they say, oh, look, people 113 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:47.399 with funny hats and point and laugh, and it's low 114 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:50.160 hanging fruit of laughing at people for their spiritual beliefs 115 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:53.079 and not taking them seriously as human beings and just 116 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:56.720 taking that one dimensional approach. Whereas I grew up around 117 00:06:56.759 --> 00:06:58.439 these folks, and I know that a lot of the 118 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:02.600 time is just totally regular people. I'd be working at 119 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:05.399 a video store and chatting with them, and they might 120 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:07.959 be somebody's parents, and you might not realize that they're 121 00:07:07.959 --> 00:07:11.279 into something. Lou and they're lovely folks and they don't 122 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:14.000 come across as crazy, and it's not helpful to say, oh, 123 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:15.800 the reason that somebody ends up in a cult is 124 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:19.160 because they already like funny hats. That's not insightful, that's 125 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:23.079 not interesting, that's not humanistic at all. Growing up in 126 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:26.639 that situation, I had parents who were called to the 127 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:31.199 mountain quote unquote spiritually, which was something that I obviously 128 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:33.920 love my parents, and I don't consider them crazy. So 129 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:36.639 it's always been an open question to me, like, why 130 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:41.759 is what's going on? I'm agnostic myself, so I never understood, 131 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:45.279 and so I think I've always been interested in trying 132 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:49.560 to find a story to tell that would include some 133 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:52.120 of these elements where it's in the background of this documentary. 134 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:55.480 Is it is any of this real? And to what degree? 135 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:59.560 I'm obviously not from northern California. So what is it 136 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:03.240 about this particular place? Is that the mountain itself? Is 137 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:06.639 that the area itself? What is it that attracts this 138 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:10.439 attention and has these groups spring up around it? 139 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:13.319 There are probably a few different answers that you could 140 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:17.120 get to that question. The answer that locals would give 141 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:20.519 is that it's the mountain itself is a spiritual place, 142 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:25.839 has a shangri law kind of atmosphere. It's been chosen 143 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:28.839 as a place of residence for spiritual beings for thousands 144 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:31.920 of years, and they are actively putting their tendrils out 145 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:35.080 and drawing spiritual people there to create a community. And 146 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:37.720 so people feel called to the mountain and feel like 147 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:40.279 it's a spiritual place where they're meant to gather. And 148 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:43.759 so even though it's a small community, there's a pretty 149 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:47.320 large contingent of folks there who are there for spiritual 150 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:50.480 purposes and are building a community. It's not all one 151 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:55.080 spiritual group, it's it's a cluster of many similar groups 152 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:58.440 with overlapping beliefs. But there's a huge amount of diversity 153 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:03.519 inside of it. Answer might be because it's a destination 154 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:09.000 already for outdoor activities. It's a popular ski destination. Skiing's 155 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:12.600 amazing apparently ilt ski, and it's a beautiful, a very 156 00:09:12.679 --> 00:09:17.799 striking mountain. You do feel a sense of awe when 157 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:19.799 you're standing in front of it. It can immediately put you 158 00:09:19.879 --> 00:09:22.679 in a maybe a receptive state to think that maybe 159 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:26.120 something special is happening here because it's so imposing visually, 160 00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:29.559 and I imagine that has something to do with it 161 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:32.519 as well. And I think the last answer would be 162 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:36.080 because some of those things already had some traction. It 163 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:40.159 gets fed a lot by the Chamber of commerce, anybody 164 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:45.000 looking to drum up tourism and people. When the logging 165 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:47.840 and mining industries dried up around there, people had to 166 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:49.840 turn to something, so they turned to tourism and then 167 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:53.759 also spiritual tourism, where it's turned into oh, you want 168 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:56.720 to come meet the descended bastards who live in the mountain. 169 00:09:56.840 --> 00:09:59.000 I can take you to a spot where you can 170 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.000 try to find one of the entrances to the mountain 171 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:03.720 and we'll stand there and meditate. And it's three hundred dollars. 172 00:10:04.519 --> 00:10:06.720 Some people are just hustling to make some money. Some 173 00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:09.480 can ride that line where they're doing it and keep 174 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:12.759 one foot in spirituality and being an ethical person and 175 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:17.240 getting permits and things like that. Some folks are pretty firebleware. 176 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.639 So walk me through your process when you decide, Okay, 177 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:22.320 this is going to be my project. I'm going to 178 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.559 make this documentary because you go down a lot of paths, 179 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.039 and I just want to know, like, how do you 180 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:32.559 mentally prepare for that to how do you pursue these things? 181 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:34.320 Or do you say this is the path I'm going 182 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:36.519 to go down. You start down that and then suddenly 183 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:38.039 you start to veer off this. 184 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:40.200 Story And kind of thought about it for a little while. 185 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:42.840 I realized, this is a through line, more of a 186 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:45.120 through line than if I just made a documentary about 187 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:48.039 the people who live here. Right then, I have no 188 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:50.679 cohesion at all. I could get lost going down all 189 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:54.240 the different rabbit holes. So I knew I had this mystery. 190 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:57.519 We found a giant hole on Mount Shasta. It was 191 00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.720 dug by hand. Somebody was looking for something. Is this 192 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:06.200 a story of obsession? Is this something sinister with somebody 193 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:09.960 looking for something specific for nefarious reasons, was this just 194 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:13.360 a garden variety mining fraud thing, So that at least 195 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:17.039 narrowed down the Mount Shasta, all the different colors of 196 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:19.120 what was going on there down to a specific track 197 00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:21.399 that I could go down, or at least I narrowed 198 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:23.919 down the tracks that I could go down. But then 199 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.440 when it came to making the movie myself, I didn't 200 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:28.399 have any money. I was the director, as a writer, 201 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:30.240 as a producer. I was doing the research and the 202 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:33.440 editing and most of the cinematography and things like that. 203 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:37.279 I honestly was going in every direction at once. And 204 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:40.639 because I had never made a movie any larger than 205 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:44.679 a several minute long experimental short, I did everything wrong 206 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:47.440 the first time, and I probably did everything wrong the 207 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:50.080 second and third, and fourth and fifth time. There are 208 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:52.000 shots in that movie. A lot of the interviews are 209 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:55.679 my second take at at interviewing that person, and there 210 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:58.960 are shots in that movie that took you know. I 211 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:01.440 just want to get a specific lenticular cloud that looks 212 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:03.759 like a UFO that appears near Mount Shast and that's 213 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:05.919 one of the things that kind of ties the UFO 214 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:09.559 culture into the Mount Shasta culture. I spent years waiting 215 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:12.600 for the perfect lenticular cloud. There are shots in the 216 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:16.000 movie where I spent three days just making sure that 217 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:19.320 I had the right lens on the camera, with the 218 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:22.720 track laid in the right place, and the light the 219 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.960 sunlight would fall right on the trail that I needed 220 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:28.039 people's eyes to go to, and I just waited. And 221 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.320 sometimes I had to wait a long time for interviews. 222 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:32.240 There was one interview in the film that took seven 223 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:34.639 years to get. I just had to wait, And so 224 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:36.679 in the meantime, I would I just had a long 225 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:38.120 to do list, and I would go, which one of 226 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:41.120 these can I do today? And I'd go all the 227 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:44.039 way down the list until I ran out of things 228 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.360 to do, phone calls, to make emails, to write, And 229 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:48.639 then if there was still any daylight left, I'd be like, 230 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:51.919 the light's nice, it's Karen's Malick. This in just in 231 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:54.200 the last forty five minutes of each day. When the 232 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:58.080 light is nice, go get two shots. And what was 233 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.399 it twenty four or something when I maybe shot the 234 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:04.600 last footage in the fall, Oh my goodness. It was 235 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:05.799 a long process. 236 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.600 And you're working a full time job at the same time. 237 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:10.879 I ticket, Oh, yeah, No. There were times when I 238 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:14.000 was working five jobs at one point. I don't think 239 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:16.039 I got very much done for about thirteen months because 240 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.759 I was running a public access television studio. When I started, 241 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:23.039 I was working at a video store for the first 242 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.399 two years as a video store clerk, and that was 243 00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:28.000 actually very helpful. I actually made a lot of connections, 244 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:29.759 found a lot of people through that. 245 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:32.679 I don't want to be too nerdy, but there are 246 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:35.840 two shots that I want to talk about in particular, 247 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:41.600 or two types of things, the Russhot test, the mirroring 248 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:43.679 of things. Were you doing that in camera or was 249 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:45.440 that all post Oh I. 250 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:47.000 Wish I had done that in camera. That would have 251 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:49.200 been fun to have done in camera. I honestly hadn't 252 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:51.960 thought of it at first. I knew that was an 253 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:53.919 element of the story, but I was dealing with it 254 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.120 more like coming from the direction of I knew that 255 00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:00.360 people were already psychologically projecting onto the mountain, that people 256 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:04.039 were obviously projecting a lot of positive things onto the mountain, right, spirituality, 257 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.759 things like that, And then I thought, with the whole 258 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.639 but it's out of balance where people mostly talk about 259 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.279 the fun, beautiful, spiritual, groovy things about the mountain and 260 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:15.360 not the dark sides. So then we have this hole 261 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:19.080 where people started projecting onto that, and it tended to 262 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.480 be all of the darker things about the mountain that 263 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:25.279 you know, like the four service people saying, ah, I 264 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:27.120 think this might be mining fraud, or somebody being like, 265 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:28.960 I think that this was like a cult up to 266 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:33.080 something creepy, and I went, okay, so we're going to 267 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:36.879 get both by just examining this image. But then one 268 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:38.799 of my friends said, with like a rorshack test you've 269 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:42.159 got and I said, yeah, that came up in interviews, 270 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:43.960 but I cut it and he said why did you 271 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:45.240 cut it? And I said I didn't want to be 272 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:47.399 too on the nose. I just wanted to let it 273 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:48.639 be that he said, you got to put a scene 274 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:51.559 in there. Said okay, and I thought about it, and 275 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:54.360 at some point I came up with the idea of 276 00:14:55.559 --> 00:15:00.799 mirroring one shot and it was pretty odd, honestly, pretty 277 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:02.919 simple effect that I just dragged and dropped on it 278 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:05.360 and devincu resolved. That's another thing. I edited this on 279 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.960 a twenty thirteen Mac with Devinci Resolve fifteen the free version. 280 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:12.120 I had my hands tied in a lot of ways 281 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:15.360 on this project, but Luckily it had this effect on it, 282 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:18.399 and I went, oh, that's cool, and then I get 283 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:20.200 a few shots that way. It probably took about forty 284 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:21.600 five minutes to do that. That's one of the only 285 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:23.519 scenes in the movie that maybe I did one version 286 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:25.600 of it in forty five minutes and then didn't change. 287 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:29.000 I went okay, And I actually still debated putting that 288 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:30.720 in the movie. I still go, is this two on 289 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:32.879 the nose? But everybody responds to it so well. 290 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:35.600 I totally responded to it. I thought I was great, 291 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:37.759 and I don't think that you overuse it. I think 292 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:40.440 it's just a nice spice that you throw in there 293 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:41.279 at the right time. 294 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:43.559 That's what I tried for. Great. Thank you. 295 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:47.919 The other thing, obviously, this movie is called The Whole Story, 296 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:49.720 so you're going to be thinking about that whole the 297 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:53.200 whole time. Sorry for the pun, but how do you 298 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:55.559 get the shots of the whole? They talk at the 299 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:57.519 very beginning about the whole being filled in? So how 300 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:00.600 do you get these shots? How are you doing that? Oh? 301 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:02.879 Yeah, so none of those. It's too bad. I was 302 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:04.879 never able to photograph it because, as you say, it 303 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.519 got filled in within a few weeks or months, depending 304 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.200 on who you ask, And I was never able to 305 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:12.960 photograph it myself, so everything in the film is based 306 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.399 on a photograph that somebody took, and I had to 307 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:19.519 just get creative with putting pain and zooms and things 308 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.279 on things. As much as I like experimental films and 309 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.559 stuff like that, I went back to nuts and bolts 310 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:27.720 ken burns, how does he get so much emotion out 311 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.759 of an old photograph with a little bit of painting 312 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.519 and zooming and some voiceover and some music, and just 313 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:36.799 being like, I just need to keep this, keep our 314 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:41.200 eye moving, keep the mesmerism going, keep the interest going. 315 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.279 And I've gotten that note a couple of times from folks. 316 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:46.879 You didn't realize that none of those were video, and 317 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:49.720 I went, oh wow, I have no objectivity left on 318 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:51.960 this movie. I've been editing it so long, and of 319 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.159 course it's hard to be objective in any situation ever anyway, 320 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.879 if not impossible, And at this point, I'm just shocked 321 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.879 that anybody says something like that. I still cringe when 322 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:01.399 I see those. 323 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:05.079 I bought into it one hundred percent of Climb and Cinker, 324 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:09.759 So yeah, I thought that was a recreation of some 325 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:12.759 sort or some sort of double plane where it's here's 326 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:14.920 the bottom of the hole, and here's the time that 327 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.359 you were doing this. In some sort of weird post effect, 328 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:20.599 I'm like, yeah, and I'm looking at this stuff in 329 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.119 the hole and thinking about what the scale of it is. 330 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.240 Because they talk about how it looked like a bucket 331 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.599 that was actually this huge garbage can. I'm like, okay, yeah, no, 332 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:31.920 I bought into it. And I can really see your 333 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:34.680 experimental film background in so much of it, like the 334 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.680 Worshock test, but really even just those moments of quiet 335 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.559 where you're looking at the wildflowers and talking about how 336 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:43.039 long it takes for the wildflowers to come back, and 337 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:46.400 just it's such a beautifully shot film. 338 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:50.279 Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, I really spent a 339 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.720 long time on it. It was a dream project in 340 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:55.240 so many ways of that it really tied into something 341 00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:57.880 like I said that I've been deeply interested in my 342 00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:00.240 entire life. Even though I'm not in the film, it's 343 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:02.759 a very personal movie for me, and I got to 344 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:04.160 do things like what I used to do when I 345 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:05.680 was a kid, would go out with a camera and 346 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:09.480 just photograph things. It was the subject of what I loved, 347 00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:12.000 my community and the area, I could spend so much 348 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:14.000 time in nature, and I could take my time with 349 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:16.000 the editing. I just had such a great time with 350 00:18:16.039 --> 00:18:18.079 it in so many ways. And then of course the story. 351 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:20.720 Stories like this don't come along very often for me. 352 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:22.839 It was like I knew I was hooked, and everybody 353 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.119 I talked to about it immediately got hooked. Every time 354 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:26.640 they had asked me, what's up with the whole of 355 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.200 you found any more information? Is that people actually want 356 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:32.400 to see this, and nobody's ever wanted to see one 357 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:33.240 of my movies before. 358 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.559 When you do a good job of leading us down 359 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.519 a path and then pulling the rug out, and then 360 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:41.119 leading us down another path and doing the same thing, 361 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.000 and it was done so masterfully that I was not 362 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:47.480 angry at you. I was just like, oh, he got 363 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:50.559 me again. All right, now let's do another thing. And 364 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:53.759 you're presenting all of these ideas like this could be 365 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.240 true or this, and I just I love that that. 366 00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.680 Too many times Hollywood movies are just like, no, you 367 00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:00.920 always need to find the truth. Maybe in the last 368 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:03.079 five minutes, we'll do a little twist and show you 369 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:05.599 who Kaiser show as I really was. But no, I 370 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:08.799 love that I can hold different ideas in my head. 371 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:11.960 Yeah, I wasn't. I didn't want to do the usual 372 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:14.440 suspects approach. But one film that I really studied, like 373 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:18.240 literally shot by shot, was Picnicked Hanging Rock. It's a 374 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.960 beautiful story about a mystery at a geological location, and 375 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.279 I don't want to spoil it for anybody, but I 376 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:27.400 really studied how much story could they create with a 377 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:33.240 minimum amount of exposition and execute an ending that should 378 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.119 theoretically really upset people, but it is really emotionally satisfying. 379 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.720 I love that film so much. That was probably one 380 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:44.720 of the ones that was the most influenced by I. 381 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:47.079 Not that I could come anywhere close to that film, but. 382 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:50.400 Obviously you don't have the same cinematographer as Peter Weird 383 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.319 did or anything. But it's you out there with the 384 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:56.440 camera alone. Rather than I would not even ask you 385 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.400 about your crew because I imagine it's you, it was me. 386 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:01.559 Most of the time. I did have help. My brother 387 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:05.400 did the score. My friend Audie Carlisle, who's a wonderful 388 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:07.599 documentary filmmaker her self, helped me with a few of 389 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:10.200 the interviews. I think about twenty minutes of the film 390 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:12.920 is her, but it's mostly the talking head stuff. But 391 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:15.920 that's great because I could delegate some of those interviews 392 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.599 in there. Like the guy who's most of the last 393 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:20.440 thirty minutes of the film. I had to shoot that 394 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.880 an hour and a half as he was passing through town, 395 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:26.480 and all the stuff in the hotel room that was 396 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:28.119 done that night, all the stuff with him up on 397 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.160 the mountain that was in like forty five minutes after 398 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:32.839 the interviews. It took twelve thirteen years to make the movie, 399 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:35.160 but there's like a twenty something minute section of the 400 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:37.079 movie that was shot in twenty two hours. 401 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:39.160