Speaker 1: Hello, and good morning nimbly Hiero. How are you doing
doing fantastic? Really excited to talk with you because this
book is coming out at a really interesting time in
history where people are on separate sides, but they're not
having these conversations that that Gabe and Annabel are doing. Yes,
that is for sure, but see, don't you think that
this book could inspire that change?
Speaker 2: Though? Yes, that's that is definitely my hope of I
think that, you know, I think one of my favorite
stories from from writing this book is one of them.
I live in DC and at my son's school, one
of the moms who'd read the book said that they
should be required reading for Hill staffers because she had
actually fell in love with her husband, she's regent when
they were both on the hill and back in the
day they used to you know, you would argue all day,
then you would get fear, and then you would plan
the same softball team and the next day, you know,
you had you know, feels being made or relationships starting.
And now that does not happen. There's none of that.
You don't talk to him from the other side, you
don't grab a beer, and so just think of all
the lost romances that occurred because of this divide that.
Speaker 1: Is so true. And you make Annabelle and Gabe feel
so real. Is that because of your psychology and your
psychotherapy background, Because I mean it's just they're so real.
But it's almost like it's like, how did she make
them so like us?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I think it's a real a dantage
being a writer and a therapist, because you know, usually
we don't get to hear people's internal worlds. I could
be in the worst mood, but you know, if I'm
speaking to somebody, you know, if I'm speaking to a
Barisa Starbucks er, if I'm speaking to a parent in school,
I'm gonna have my game based on and be pleasant.
But when you're in spescionalists on, you hear everything they're thinking,
from the most absurd to the status and that really
allows for such great character development when you're writing.
Speaker 1: I like the way that you talk about the small
town because I mean, over the past let's say eight
to ten years, this small town feeling has really taken
sides as well, and I can see it around the
Charlotte area in the smaller towns, how everybody is on
their side of the fence and they're not really getting
along with each other all the.
Speaker 2: Time, right, And it's a fictional town in the south,
but it was kind of loosely based on the research
triangle idea where you have this small town North Carolina
in the book, which is against fictional, but half the
town because of a research university and a hospital, there's
half the town. The east side is liberal and then
it's the south and so the north side is conservative.
And these sides try to have nothing to do with
each other. But what are the spaces that bring us together?
Ana Gabe's case, that was a running team.
Speaker 1: A lot of young adults, they have their opinions, but
they don't know how to use their opinions. I think
this is going to be a great teaching tool in
the way of them saying, hey, I'm either Gabe or
I'm Annabelle, and I want to be able to talk
to somebody about this without being judged.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I see so much in my practice people are,
especially colle students, they are cutting relationships off with people
because of how they think what they post on social media.
And plenty of grown ups are doing this, you know,
even like fifty and six year olds are doing this
and this has really become kind of commonplace now to
not be able to really even be friends with someone
who think differently. And I think there's a lot lost there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to me, that's where ghosting came from. And
I sat there and I kept wondering, is Gabe gonna
ghost her? Because I mean we or would Annabelle ghosts Gabe?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Probably Annibal will be more likely. I think she's
more hot headed, Gabe.
Speaker 1: A little more.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: What did you feel while you were putting those words together?
Because I mean, it has to move through you first
before it arrives in our eyes.
Speaker 2: I think there are some parts that were challenging and
like that, you know, when when your characters think differently
than you do, that can be really challenging. But you know,
that's where I think the power of you know, the
power of like romance comes in, and the power of
these shared spaces that have nothing to do with politics,
where you can see and understand where someone's coming from.
And so, you know, I think the mix of these
like romance tropes where you have this idea that you
know somebody, the power of buye in love. But what
happens when you think so differently, and I just think
that's such an interesting dynamic to words through and I
think it definitely helps me kind of even speak to
my friends who think differently in a different way and
try to really understand them in a more open, open
minded way.
Speaker 1: One of the title of the book really caught my
attention because in so many different ways there could be
different definitions, because running mates could be there on two
different sides of the political fans, running mate means they're
out there running together.
Speaker 2: Right and in this case both work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just thought that was very clever
as to how you're doing it, because once you dive
into those pages and you see what it's about there,
you go, oh, I know where we're going with this.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, definitely, And that was I think the first
title was something like the Lost Art of Manners, and
then they were like, that's not catchy enough, and then
you know, I think it was a brainstorm and my
agent and me and the publisher all like kind of
finding the right title, which which you know, even though
writing is a solo sport and you know there's so
many people help, it's really a team effort.
Speaker 1: At the end, a solo sport, but yet when you
get two runners together, they've got a lot of things
to talk about, that is for sure. I think it's
because they're up there in their heads so much while
they're out there running around that they've just got to
get it out with somebody.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, And then after running, you're in a good mood.
It's good for mental health, so you can argue less
while you're talking about hard choices. Maybe that's the key.
We should have everyone like run ten miles and they
can argue you. They'd probably get along better.
Speaker 1: So many listeners and readers are going to really see
themselves inside these storylines in the way that you know
they inside their mind. They are an activist, they want
to see some activism. But where can they go to
even learn more about this because there's so many people
that want the younger generation to use their voice.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think I think you want to think like,
I think it's so great that the younger generation does
want to use their voice, and I think they have
more platforms than ever. I think social media, which has
benefits and you know, bad and good. Like everything else,
you know, you can through social media you could be
live in a place that maybe you know, not a
major TV or radio town and still be really heard
and like whether it's on YouTube or on your Instagram channel.
You know, I think more than ever, there are these
ways we can get our voices heard. But I think
the trapping is is that how do we make sure
we can hold our own views and talk with our
own views, but not totally shut out other points of views,
even if they are very different and maybe even feel threatening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because it's even a fearful journey if you're
even going to be on social media, because I mean
it's all there, but you know, do you want to
be a part of that crowd right?
Speaker 2: Right? And there's a lot of harm from social media too,
So it's so complicated.
Speaker 1: So now to get into this storyline, how did you
measure the balance in it? Because I mean that's what
I love about this is that is that your editor
that did that? Or I mean, how did you keep
it so well balanced?
Speaker 2: Well? I think you know, I am a huge lifelong
romance okay, lover and reader and romance novels actually have
pretty clear guidelines that I don't think everyone knows about. Like,
to really be a romance, you have to have the
two love interest on the page. Every ten pages, they
have to be together. Oh well, so there's usually a
third act breakup, and usually there's always a halfway. Ever,
ask and I think, you know, writing this book, maybe
really understand why that's so important, because so I says,
you don't want to get you know, at the end
of the day, you want people to be in the
romance and the comedy, and the way to do that
is to keep the tension between the characters. It's exciting.
Usually tension is threatening, right, Usually if people are not
getting along, it makes so uncomfortable. But in this case,
it's adding to the romance appeal. So you know, I
think that's the real balance, which is it's almost exciting
when they disagree because there's some other you know, sexual
attension there instead of it just being awkward.
Speaker 1: See. I like tension and I like conflict. And the
thing is is I'll dive into it as a writer,
and now I've got to figure out how am I
going to find some piece here as well?
Speaker 2: Right? Right?
Speaker 1: But it gets inside your own person. I guess you
being a psychotherapist, I mean, hey, I guess you just
take care of yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I think I'm also a runner.
I'm not an engrave or like fabulous runners. I just
run three miles very slowly, and I read a lot
of romance, and I eat a lot of chocolate chip cookies.
But I also think that, you know, moving back to DC,
I've been around a lot of people who think differently
than me again, and I really I think something that's
and powerful is that I can also learn from the
way other people do things, and that that makes me
a better therapist, and it makes me a better mom,
and it makes me a better writer. So I think
that's been really powerful too.
Speaker 1: What is your writing discipline?
Speaker 2: All right? So I'm I have two small boys and
I work full time. So I'm I'm going to tell
you what I do. I would never recommend this for
mental health, because it's bad for mental health. I write
between ten pm and twelve thirty or one am, and
I do that by eating Eminem's and espresso the whole time.
So again, I do not recommend that as a therapist,
but it is effective for a writing mom who has
a full time job. And I think, you know, writing
just when you're writing the discipline, like people really wanted
to be romantic inspiration. Here I go. But that is
not true. It's like anything else, you have to put
your butt in a chair and kind of produce a
certain amount of words or pages a day, and so
you know, that's kind of the reality. And I think
eminems are a great way to motivate.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of musicians that do exactly what
you do, and they say, you know, I want to
write at night, that that's where my energy is given birth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, or in my case more the only time
I have. But I definitely recommend trying to split more
than I've slept in the last year, but it's been
worth it.
Speaker 1: When did you start to realize that Gabe and Annabelle
were starting to respect each other? And to me, it's
at that perfectly balanced timing when when it really starts
to click.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. At first, you see that they
can't really tolerate the pressure of their friends and families.
They feel almost too embarrassed to really be together, and
that when that shifts, when they're willing to still be
together despite kind of pressures from family or friends, is
a shift that they're prioritizing each other and also really
feeling more confident themselves to make decisions they think are
true to who they want to be rather than who
who the people they're around are pushing them to do.
Speaker 1: Wow, So do you make this a ten part binge watch?
Are you going to do a rom com here?
Speaker 2: I think I'm going I might go back because there's
some side characters who should have other stories that I'm
I think my next novel is also be romantic comedy,
but in a different say, with a new guest, at
least for now. See.
Speaker 1: I like that kind of thinking because I mean when
you bring people into the storyline and it's almost like
the reader gets to see them shake hands. Okay, I'll
never see him again. So yeah, continuing on with a
story like that gives you a series.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's it. There are there are some side
characters who I know people really want stories for. That's
been some of the seed back there, especially Sam and
Dell who are like the best friends and Nason. People
really want to see them have their own romances, and
maybe one day they will, because everyone deserves a happy
ever after. Wow.
Speaker 1: I would love to see the research on how many
grown men will find this book and they will read it.
Speaker 2: I have so my husband's a lawyer and his friends
only read nonfiction, but because this was my book, they
all read it and it was there for literally they
read biographies, war biographies, you know, the Constitution, wherever they read.
They've never read a rom com. And they were so
funny reading this book because they were texting me about
it NonStop. They thought it was so romantic. They never
they thought it was much more like you know, they've
not used some books with this level of sexual attention,
even though it's very PG. Thirteen. So it's so funny
watching them, particularly just running me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're all still just kids. We never really grow up. Yes,
So where can people go to find out more about you, Emily,
because I want them to really get into what you're doing.
Speaker 2: Yes, So I have a website and if you just
google Emily Locker author, it will pop up, and there's
a way you can email me on that. And also
I'm on Instagram and you can always DM me and
I will do my best to always answer. I love
talking about romance, therapy and empathy and all these topics.
Speaker 1: I love it. You got to come back to the
show anytime in the future. The door is always going
to be open for you.
Speaker 2: I would love that.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Ero well, be brilliant and thank you so
much for sharing your writing and not hiding it underneath
your bed.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, thank you so much, and thanks for
having me