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Speaker 1: Hello, and good morning nimbly Hiero. How are you doing

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doing fantastic? Really excited to talk with you because this

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book is coming out at a really interesting time in

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history where people are on separate sides, but they're not

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having these conversations that that Gabe and Annabel are doing. Yes,

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that is for sure, but see, don't you think that

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this book could inspire that change?

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Speaker 2: Though? Yes, that's that is definitely my hope of I

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think that, you know, I think one of my favorite

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stories from from writing this book is one of them.

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I live in DC and at my son's school, one

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of the moms who'd read the book said that they

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should be required reading for Hill staffers because she had

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actually fell in love with her husband, she's regent when

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they were both on the hill and back in the

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day they used to you know, you would argue all day,

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then you would get fear, and then you would plan

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the same softball team and the next day, you know,

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you had you know, feels being made or relationships starting.

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And now that does not happen. There's none of that.

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You don't talk to him from the other side, you

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don't grab a beer, and so just think of all

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the lost romances that occurred because of this divide that.

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Speaker 1: Is so true. And you make Annabelle and Gabe feel

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so real. Is that because of your psychology and your

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psychotherapy background, Because I mean it's just they're so real.

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But it's almost like it's like, how did she make

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them so like us?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I think it's a real a dantage

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being a writer and a therapist, because you know, usually

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we don't get to hear people's internal worlds. I could

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be in the worst mood, but you know, if I'm

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speaking to somebody, you know, if I'm speaking to a

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Barisa Starbucks er, if I'm speaking to a parent in school,

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I'm gonna have my game based on and be pleasant.

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But when you're in spescionalists on, you hear everything they're thinking,

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from the most absurd to the status and that really

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allows for such great character development when you're writing.

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Speaker 1: I like the way that you talk about the small

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town because I mean, over the past let's say eight

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to ten years, this small town feeling has really taken

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sides as well, and I can see it around the

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Charlotte area in the smaller towns, how everybody is on

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their side of the fence and they're not really getting

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along with each other all the.

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Speaker 2: Time, right, And it's a fictional town in the south,

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but it was kind of loosely based on the research

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triangle idea where you have this small town North Carolina

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in the book, which is against fictional, but half the

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town because of a research university and a hospital, there's

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half the town. The east side is liberal and then

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it's the south and so the north side is conservative.

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And these sides try to have nothing to do with

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each other. But what are the spaces that bring us together?

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Ana Gabe's case, that was a running team.

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Speaker 1: A lot of young adults, they have their opinions, but

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they don't know how to use their opinions. I think

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this is going to be a great teaching tool in

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the way of them saying, hey, I'm either Gabe or

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I'm Annabelle, and I want to be able to talk

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to somebody about this without being judged.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I see so much in my practice people are,

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especially colle students, they are cutting relationships off with people

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because of how they think what they post on social media.

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And plenty of grown ups are doing this, you know,

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even like fifty and six year olds are doing this

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and this has really become kind of commonplace now to

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not be able to really even be friends with someone

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who think differently. And I think there's a lot lost there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and to me, that's where ghosting came from. And

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I sat there and I kept wondering, is Gabe gonna

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ghost her? Because I mean we or would Annabelle ghosts Gabe?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Probably Annibal will be more likely. I think she's

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more hot headed, Gabe.

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Speaker 1: A little more.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: What did you feel while you were putting those words together?

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Because I mean, it has to move through you first

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before it arrives in our eyes.

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Speaker 2: I think there are some parts that were challenging and

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like that, you know, when when your characters think differently

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than you do, that can be really challenging. But you know,

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that's where I think the power of you know, the

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power of like romance comes in, and the power of

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these shared spaces that have nothing to do with politics,

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where you can see and understand where someone's coming from.

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And so, you know, I think the mix of these

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like romance tropes where you have this idea that you

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know somebody, the power of buye in love. But what

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happens when you think so differently, and I just think

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that's such an interesting dynamic to words through and I

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think it definitely helps me kind of even speak to

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my friends who think differently in a different way and

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try to really understand them in a more open, open

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minded way.

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Speaker 1: One of the title of the book really caught my

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attention because in so many different ways there could be

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different definitions, because running mates could be there on two

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different sides of the political fans, running mate means they're

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out there running together.

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Speaker 2: Right and in this case both work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just thought that was very clever

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as to how you're doing it, because once you dive

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into those pages and you see what it's about there,

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you go, oh, I know where we're going with this.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, definitely, And that was I think the first

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title was something like the Lost Art of Manners, and

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then they were like, that's not catchy enough, and then

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you know, I think it was a brainstorm and my

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agent and me and the publisher all like kind of

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finding the right title, which which you know, even though

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writing is a solo sport and you know there's so

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many people help, it's really a team effort.

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Speaker 1: At the end, a solo sport, but yet when you

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get two runners together, they've got a lot of things

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to talk about, that is for sure. I think it's

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because they're up there in their heads so much while

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they're out there running around that they've just got to

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get it out with somebody.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, And then after running, you're in a good mood.

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It's good for mental health, so you can argue less

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while you're talking about hard choices. Maybe that's the key.

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We should have everyone like run ten miles and they

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can argue you. They'd probably get along better.

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Speaker 1: So many listeners and readers are going to really see

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themselves inside these storylines in the way that you know

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they inside their mind. They are an activist, they want

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to see some activism. But where can they go to

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even learn more about this because there's so many people

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that want the younger generation to use their voice.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think I think you want to think like,

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I think it's so great that the younger generation does

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want to use their voice, and I think they have

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more platforms than ever. I think social media, which has

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benefits and you know, bad and good. Like everything else,

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you know, you can through social media you could be

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live in a place that maybe you know, not a

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major TV or radio town and still be really heard

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and like whether it's on YouTube or on your Instagram channel.

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You know, I think more than ever, there are these

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ways we can get our voices heard. But I think

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the trapping is is that how do we make sure

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we can hold our own views and talk with our

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own views, but not totally shut out other points of views,

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even if they are very different and maybe even feel threatening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because it's even a fearful journey if you're

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even going to be on social media, because I mean

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it's all there, but you know, do you want to

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be a part of that crowd right?

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Speaker 2: Right? And there's a lot of harm from social media too,

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So it's so complicated.

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Speaker 1: So now to get into this storyline, how did you

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measure the balance in it? Because I mean that's what

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I love about this is that is that your editor

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that did that? Or I mean, how did you keep

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it so well balanced?

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Speaker 2: Well? I think you know, I am a huge lifelong

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romance okay, lover and reader and romance novels actually have

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pretty clear guidelines that I don't think everyone knows about. Like,

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to really be a romance, you have to have the

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two love interest on the page. Every ten pages, they

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have to be together. Oh well, so there's usually a

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third act breakup, and usually there's always a halfway. Ever,

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ask and I think, you know, writing this book, maybe

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really understand why that's so important, because so I says,

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you don't want to get you know, at the end

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of the day, you want people to be in the

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romance and the comedy, and the way to do that

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is to keep the tension between the characters. It's exciting.

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Usually tension is threatening, right, Usually if people are not

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getting along, it makes so uncomfortable. But in this case,

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it's adding to the romance appeal. So you know, I

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think that's the real balance, which is it's almost exciting

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when they disagree because there's some other you know, sexual

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attension there instead of it just being awkward.

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Speaker 1: See. I like tension and I like conflict. And the

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thing is is I'll dive into it as a writer,

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and now I've got to figure out how am I

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going to find some piece here as well?

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Speaker 2: Right? Right?

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Speaker 1: But it gets inside your own person. I guess you

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being a psychotherapist, I mean, hey, I guess you just

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take care of yourself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I think I'm also a runner.

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I'm not an engrave or like fabulous runners. I just

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run three miles very slowly, and I read a lot

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of romance, and I eat a lot of chocolate chip cookies.

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But I also think that, you know, moving back to DC,

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I've been around a lot of people who think differently

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than me again, and I really I think something that's

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and powerful is that I can also learn from the

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way other people do things, and that that makes me

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a better therapist, and it makes me a better mom,

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and it makes me a better writer. So I think

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that's been really powerful too.

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Speaker 1: What is your writing discipline?

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Speaker 2: All right? So I'm I have two small boys and

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I work full time. So I'm I'm going to tell

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you what I do. I would never recommend this for

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mental health, because it's bad for mental health. I write

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between ten pm and twelve thirty or one am, and

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I do that by eating Eminem's and espresso the whole time.

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So again, I do not recommend that as a therapist,

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but it is effective for a writing mom who has

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a full time job. And I think, you know, writing

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just when you're writing the discipline, like people really wanted

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to be romantic inspiration. Here I go. But that is

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not true. It's like anything else, you have to put

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your butt in a chair and kind of produce a

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certain amount of words or pages a day, and so

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you know, that's kind of the reality. And I think

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eminems are a great way to motivate.

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of musicians that do exactly what

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you do, and they say, you know, I want to

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write at night, that that's where my energy is given birth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, or in my case more the only time

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I have. But I definitely recommend trying to split more

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than I've slept in the last year, but it's been

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worth it.

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Speaker 1: When did you start to realize that Gabe and Annabelle

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were starting to respect each other? And to me, it's

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at that perfectly balanced timing when when it really starts

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to click.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. At first, you see that they

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can't really tolerate the pressure of their friends and families.

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They feel almost too embarrassed to really be together, and

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that when that shifts, when they're willing to still be

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together despite kind of pressures from family or friends, is

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a shift that they're prioritizing each other and also really

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feeling more confident themselves to make decisions they think are

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true to who they want to be rather than who

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who the people they're around are pushing them to do.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So do you make this a ten part binge watch?

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Are you going to do a rom com here?

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Speaker 2: I think I'm going I might go back because there's

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some side characters who should have other stories that I'm

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I think my next novel is also be romantic comedy,

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but in a different say, with a new guest, at

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least for now. See.

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Speaker 1: I like that kind of thinking because I mean when

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you bring people into the storyline and it's almost like

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the reader gets to see them shake hands. Okay, I'll

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never see him again. So yeah, continuing on with a

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story like that gives you a series.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's it. There are there are some side

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characters who I know people really want stories for. That's

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been some of the seed back there, especially Sam and

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Dell who are like the best friends and Nason. People

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really want to see them have their own romances, and

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maybe one day they will, because everyone deserves a happy

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ever after. Wow.

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Speaker 1: I would love to see the research on how many

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grown men will find this book and they will read it.

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Speaker 2: I have so my husband's a lawyer and his friends

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only read nonfiction, but because this was my book, they

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all read it and it was there for literally they

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read biographies, war biographies, you know, the Constitution, wherever they read.

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They've never read a rom com. And they were so

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funny reading this book because they were texting me about

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it NonStop. They thought it was so romantic. They never

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they thought it was much more like you know, they've

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not used some books with this level of sexual attention,

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even though it's very PG. Thirteen. So it's so funny

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watching them, particularly just running me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're all still just kids. We never really grow up. Yes,

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So where can people go to find out more about you, Emily,

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because I want them to really get into what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I have a website and if you just

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google Emily Locker author, it will pop up, and there's

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a way you can email me on that. And also

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I'm on Instagram and you can always DM me and

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I will do my best to always answer. I love

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talking about romance, therapy and empathy and all these topics.

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Speaker 1: I love it. You got to come back to the

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show anytime in the future. The door is always going

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to be open for you.

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Speaker 2: I would love that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Ero well, be brilliant and thank you so

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much for sharing your writing and not hiding it underneath

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your bed.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, thank you so much, and thanks for

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having me