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Speaker 1: Coming to you from Studio A here at Proven Winters,

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Color Choice Shrubs. It's time for the Gardening Simplified radio

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podcast and YouTube show with Stacy Hervilla, me Rick Weist,

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and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Well, Stacey, let's

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dig in and get to work. Somewhat controversial, I guess

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you could argue it's controversial subject today. Native ours a

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native r is a cultivar a cultivated variety of a

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native plant species, meaning it's a plant that's been bred

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or selected by humans for specific traits while still originating

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from a plant species naturally found in a particular region.

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That's a mouthful.

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Speaker 2: That's a good definition, though. That's the basics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the basics exactly. And I think what we're

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talking about here is native cultivars or native VARs. And

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I like native ours because I believe it's one of

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these situations where you can have your cake and eat

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it too. There's a lot of interest in and a

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lot of benefit from native plants, but native ours provide

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tremendous benefit in the landscape, and of course are beautiful

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because they have been bred for various characteristics that enhance

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their beauty in our landscape. That's kind of how I

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look at it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, I think it's important to acknowledge

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that native it's not that native ours exist because native

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plants aren't beautiful. We all know that we have so

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many beautiful native plants. We just talked about a bunch

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of them on our spring ephemeral show, and you know,

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any ride through anywhere in the US at the right

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time will be absolutely breadsaking because we do have such

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an incredible diversity of beautiful native plants. But the thing

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is that native ours are selected or developed for having

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more of what people like, so color, more flowers. It

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can mean a whole lot of different things, but the

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bottom line is that I feel like it's a hard

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sell to get your average person who's maybe not really

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that much of a gardener, to say, oh, hey, you know,

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grow this native hydrangea with really minimal flowers. They're not

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getting you know, some people will, and good good for them,

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but it's hard to get you know, the average person

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really excited about that. And what native ours do, I

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think is help people to see make that sort of

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transition from plants that are just straight up ornamental and

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you know, from somewhere else to native plants. It's kind

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of like a little bridge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's the word I like to use is derivative. Derivative.

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So if the plant is a derivative, that's tough to say.

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But I got it a derivative that time. I got

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it of a native plant. That's open to maybe some controversy,

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maybe some subjective criticism.

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Speaker 2: Yes, oh definitely. There are some strong opinions about native

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oars exactly that you do not have to go very

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far to find. If you want to find out, just

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google nativar and tell us what you find.

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Speaker 1: But you know, my opinion on it is, if you

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have a beautiful native plant, and I'm going to take

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Echinationia as an example, So if you have a beautiful

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plant like echination, which I love in the landscape, if

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plant breeders are able to take that native plant and

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provide better color or longer bloom or more disease resistance

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in essence, in my opinion, it does help pollinators because

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the plant is longer, blooming, tougher, healthier, And it's something

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that we're going to dig into in sug for with

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our friend Mike Connor, the b expert and get his

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take on this also, so that we cover all the

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bases today.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think one of the things that

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even the people who are very disapproving of native of

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ours can't deny is that when it comes right down

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to the garden center where people are actually buying plants,

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we're not going to get people to start planting native

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plants that don't look good at the garden center. It's

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just it's not going to happen. I mean, it might

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happen for you if you're super passionate about native plants,

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but I can tell you that unless a garden center

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is specifically specializing in native plants, garden centers cannot risk

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having a bunch of plants that don't look amazing and

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don't fly off the shelf. The season is too short,

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the margins are too thin. And what native ours do again,

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they kind of form that bridge between something that can

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look great in a container at the garden center, so

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people will actually want to buy it and still have

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that fit to our native wildlife. So it might not

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be the absolute most perfect choice, but it is a

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better choice than something that's not native at all.

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Speaker 1: No, I agree in that garden center concept you're preaching

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to the choir, but that's true. Take a look at

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a plant like Manarda or bee balm and the improved.

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You know, I remember back in the seventies when I

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was selling perennial plants. By the time we got to June,

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they were so loaded with powdery, mildew and disease there

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was nothing left in the pot. Yeah, today's cultivars amazing

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and still do a great job for pollinators. So it's

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quite a topic. And of course some of my favorite

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perennial native ours are Panicum obviously, switchgrass, Manarda, summarific high Biscus.

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Speaker 2: Well right, and of course don't forget the decadence Baptisia yep,

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big favorite over.

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Speaker 1: Here, Tuscan sun Helio and yes, like you said, Baptizia

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and Amsonia or storm cloud blue star. I love Amazonia

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so just beautiful. Also the agastakis. And then when we

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get into the shrubs, and I'm sure you're going to

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do this in segment two, Stacey, but boy, for me,

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I have a long list that I enjoy. But I'm

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gonna have to say that some of my favorite native

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ours are the smooth hydranges that have come out over

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the past few years. But right there at the top

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also lemonine lace elderberry, which is just starting to leaf

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out in my landscape now, and kodiak orange tervilla.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm really glad that you brought up the

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smooth hydrangs because smooth Hydrangea is also known as Annabel

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type hydrangas, would not be in our gardens, I don't

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think at all if it weren't for Annabel in the

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first place. And Annabelle it's unknown whether its origin is

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human or natural. But if you see and I've talked

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about this before on the show many times, if you

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see hydrange arborescens, a species of hydrangea in the wild,

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you'd walk right by it. You wouldn't even identify it

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as a hydrangea. But many, many years ago, someone found

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a mophead smooth hydrangea, brought it to Anna, Illinois, planted

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it along the horse path there, and people started seeing

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it and saying, oh, can I have a piece of that?

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And that is what it took to start getting this

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plant into our gardens. And now we can go way

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into newer varieties like the invincibl series with pink and

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purple and all of these different colors. And one might argue,

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because these are mophead hydrangeas, which are going to obscure

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the pollen and nectar bearing fertile florets, that they aren't

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quite as beneficial. And that may be true, but it's

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still better than planting something that has no wildlife benefit

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at all.

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Speaker 1: Agreed, absolutely, And so you're doing it both for the

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benefit of pollinators as well as your own personal benefit

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within your landscape. And I look, for example, a friend

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of mine just planted this incredible storm proof oh yeah,

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and to look at how the stems now are becoming stirdier.

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It's just amazing. Legend of the fall bottle brush.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: The list goes on and on. Gaspy oak leaf hydranges.

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We enjoy these in our landscape, but at the same time,

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they provide benefit in many different ways. And I think

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that's how I personally feel about native arts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that again, it's all about

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the availability, and it's all about we have to appeal

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to the most people possible. And I think this is

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so important that a lot of people who are very

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puist about native plants will say, oh, well, that's not

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native enough. But it's a step in the right direction,

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and they are people are not going to usually. I mean,

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there's certainly exceptions out there, but generally speaking, people are

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not going to go from zero to sixty. I don't

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garden at all to all of a sudden, I only

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grow pure native species, right, It just doesn't work that way.

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You need sort of that gateway at entry point, and

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maybe that's a smooth hydrangea, you know, maybe that is

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lemony lace elderberry. And once someone starts to see and

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experience those benefits of seeing the pollinators in the yard,

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seeing the birds, that's when that change begins to happen,

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and that is sort of how you start to go

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down that path.

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Speaker 1: That's really well said, and I appreciate you saying that

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because I believe that the native ours help produce interest

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and awareness of native plants also for the general public.

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So I wrote you a native limb, a rick. I'm

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looking for a plant adaptable, something unique yet practical, with

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a lineage that's native and improved in ways innovative. Its

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characteristics are unflappable, extraordinary. We raise the bar. This plant

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is going to be a star in my yard. It's

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going to be pretty with a nature that is downright gritty.

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I love my imperturbable native var.

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Speaker 2: We got a lot of fancy words in there.

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Speaker 1: Did that was a really good limerick. Coming up next,

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Plants on Trial with Stacy. You're tuned into the Gardening

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Simplified Show.

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Speaker 2: Beautify your home and community with proven Winner's Color Choice

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Shrubs with over three hundred and twenty five unique varieties

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to choose from. There's a flowering shrubber evergreen for every

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taste and every space. Just look for the distinctive white

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container your local garden center or learn more at proven

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Winner's Color Choice dot com. Greetings gardening friends, and welcome

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back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where we are talking

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about native ours. And as Rick said at the beginning

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of the show, if you haven't heard this word, or

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you're like, are they saying native ar, we are saying nativvar.

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And this is a term that was coined, gosh, probably

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fifteen or so years ago by people who are kind

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of in the native plant movement, and it is a

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contraction of the word native, of course, and cultivar, which

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means cultivated variety, as Rick explained. And so we're yeah,

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we're really just talking about plants that come from nature

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but then have either been selected or developed. And the

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difference between those, of course is selected. Is I'm just

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walking along, I see a plant that's a little different.

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I say, hey, that's a little bit different. I want

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to take that and see if that is consistent or

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develop saying like, hey, this plant has some great characteristics,

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but I'll bet if I work with it a little

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bit more, I can get more great characteristics in it

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to have something that is a bit different. That's why

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I said with native plant with a twist. And there

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are a lot there's a great deal of debate out

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there on this subject, and you can probably already tell

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this is not going to be one of those straightforward

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plants on trial where I just give you one plan

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and talk about it for ten minutes. But I do

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have a method to the madness here, so please bear

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with me. But there's a lot of people who are

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very disparaging towards native ours, and we've already given you

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a bunch of reasons why we think that native ours

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definitely have a place, and we're certainly not saying that

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it's native ours or nothing, but the fact is that

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native plants unless people really know what they're looking for

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and are willing to take a risk, they're a harder

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sell in the garden center, and native ours can start

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to help to change that. And there's a couple of

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reasons why I think that people are so disparaging towards

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nativurs that I wanted to address in today's Plant on Trial,

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And there's two main reasons. So when people say that

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they're opposed to native ours, I think that what they're

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actually saying is their objection to native ours is that

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they were developed with humans in mind rather than wildlife.

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And a native plant was never really developed, but it

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evolved in conjunction with local wildlife so that there is

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an ecosystem there where they're all mutually supporting each other.

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And with native ours, whoever was selecting or developing them

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had to say, like, hey, I think that this is

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really going to appeal to people. If it happens to

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appeal to insects or birds or whatever, bonus. But what

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I'm trying to do is to actually get it to

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appeal to people. And they see that as inherently that

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that you're trying to appeal to humans rather than animals.

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But I think that this argument ignores two basic facts

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about native ours. Number one is that nature actually is

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a hybridizer itself. Sure, so when a plant reproduces by seed,

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which is to say that you've got one plant, pollen

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from another plant comes to it through wind or through

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an insect, a cross pollination has occurred, a transfer of

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genetic material has occurred. So there's two different genes now,

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and even though those plants are likely the same species,

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when you have pollen from two distinct individuals, you introduce

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the potential for genetic mutation. And this is nature's adaptation

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for things that may happen down the line. You know,

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a lot of things have evolved simply because you know

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nature maybe throughout some red pigments into say a panicum,

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and that made them more resistant to sun as the

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sun became you know, more intense or or whatever. There's

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all of these different examples. So nature is itself a hybridizer.

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And over time, native plants can live or thrive because

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they're able to adapt to the environment. So a lot

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of this just happens naturally, like we like we theorize

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happened with Annabel. So you can't take nature out of

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the equation. Here and number two, there is I think

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a prevailing assumption because the research has been so mixed

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and come out over such a long period of time,

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that all native ours are bad because they disadvantage pollinators.

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And that's not at all true. And we were talking

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a bit about Echinesia in the first segment, and so

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I want to kind of use that as the example,

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because I think that Echinaesia is really the plant that

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sort of, you know, soiled the name of native ours

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back in the day.

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Speaker 1: It's a great example, Stacey, and we should run with that.

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And I appreciate what you said, because again for me,

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coming from the garden center industry, we can be criticized

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as far as native ours are concerned, because essentially we're

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adding these characteristics and traits to make the plant look

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nicer so we sell more of them at the garden center.

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Speaker 2: Well, you got to make a living, wi La the

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criticism exactly. So Echinaesia, you know, it started to become

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really popular, and we have tons of native Echinaesia in

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the US, and a great diversity of Akinesia, many of

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which you can't easily even find on the market. But

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probably about m'd say twenty five to thirty years ago,

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plant breeders started to introduce Echinasia with different color flowers.

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So instead of the standard purply pink, white or yellow

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that you find in nature, there was red, and there

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was orange, and that all of these sort of fiery

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sunset colors coming in, and that started to potentially fundamentally

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change in sex attraction to them because obviously it's not

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the same color. Insects don't see color the way that

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we do. And then I think it was the double

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Echinaesia that really changed things around because in the double Echinaesia,

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that big cone in the center, which is what the

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pollinators are all after, suddenly got transformed into petals, So

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you got a big fluffy pedal thing in the center,

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and now the insects can't find the pollen. And now

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this Echinaia, which is still a native species, has become

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a lot less beneficial to pollinate.

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Speaker 1: It something that's different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but that is not the only thing that native

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ours are developed for, not by a long shot. Flower

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petal count. Flower color is only one factor that breeders

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look for as they're developing nativevars. So size can be

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a substantial one plant habit having a plant that has

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a neater, tidier habit, then you're going to find out

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in the wild, so people can actually use them, you know,

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in their yard foliage color, which can also sometimes be

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a problem if the plant is a larval host that

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may or may not be beneficial. So I think that

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the conversation has really gotten obscured, and there is just

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this general assumption that all native ours disadvantaged pollinators without

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really looking at what makes what really puts the var

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in the native ar.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, and for me, it is length of

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bloom and disease resistance, and if you're able to apply

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both of those, it becomes more beneficial to the pollinator.

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And in addition, the end user or consumer uses less

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of the I'm going to call them sides, pesticides, fungicides.

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Speaker 2: Or the plant just dies because it becomes so sickly

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that you know, and then it's not doing anybody is

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any good. But the thing is, I don't think this

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is a bread alone situation. And again, as I said,

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I think it's very important that we realize that native

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of ours can serve as a really really important first

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step to getting more people interested in native plant gardening.

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And I don't know if I've talked about it on

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the show before, but one of my personal pet peeves

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about the native plant movement is they're trying to get

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people to plant native and transform their yards without ever

318
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making the case as to why we should support insects.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: Of course, people like Doug tellmey are doing an amazing

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job of that, but I'll tell you it's a hard

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sell to get people to care about insects.

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Speaker 1: Sure, I mean, yeah, you're talking about the general public.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the general public people. If you can't just say, like, hey,

325
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plant this native plant, it's going to attract a ton

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of insects, they'll be running the other way faster than

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you can say native are So we really it's really

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that we need, I think a pr campaign on the

329
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value of insects before we can just get people to

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immediately go full on. And I think that's where nativars

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come in. You plant a native r you see that

332
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it's sustaining native insects. You see them, you know, buzzing

333
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and happy, and that makes you happy, and then you

334
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start to say, well, actually, hey, attracting insects isn't that bad.

335
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It's not as bad as I thought.

336
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Speaker 1: It would be.

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Speaker 2: So maybe I'm going to plant a few more. So

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it's about those baby steps. Not everybody is going to

339
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be able to just, you know, hear the message of

340
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Doug Tellomy and people like him. It's a wonderful message,

341
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but they're not immediately going to be converted and take

342
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that step. They need to find their own path.

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Speaker 1: And my experience in my landscape has been when I

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apply diversity, it takes a world of difference also in

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attracting all the butterflies, bees, and various insects that I

346
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have in my landscape. So not just sticking with one

347
00:19:35,599 --> 00:19:37,640
or two varieties that's spa and.

348
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Speaker 2: A diversity of bloom times so that you have a

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welcoming buffet from spring correct all the way into false.

350
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So let's bring this back to plants on trial, and

351
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I'm going to just quickly talk about some of the

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native ours in the PROFEMW. Wunner's color choice line and

353
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tell you what makes them different. As we've already said,

354
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we have a bunch of hydrange arborescens or smooth hydrange

355
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:57,839
as a lot of those arm p head that is

356
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going to be less beneficial to insects. Some of them

357
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,559
are actually not. Some of them are lace cap like

358
00:20:02,599 --> 00:20:05,119
in vincibille lace and those are great, But like I said,

359
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,160
most of ours are four size, so you've got low

360
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,640
scape snowfire errohnea. This is a newer one, but it

361
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,039
is about two to three times more flowers and subsequently

362
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:19,799
two to three times more fruit than the wild variety,

363
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and so more flowers, more pollinators, more fruit or songbirds.

364
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,839
So that doesn't change anything about its support of wildlife.

365
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Legend of the small bottle brush recently a plan on

366
00:20:28,519 --> 00:20:30,880
trial about half the size of a conventional bottle brush.

367
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So even if you have a tiny little condo with

368
00:20:32,759 --> 00:20:34,640
a tiny little front entry court and that's the only

369
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,920
place you have to plant, you could still have a

370
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father gilla sugarshack button bush. Now, when people see the

371
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,119
flowers on button bush, they need to have one, they

372
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,839
need to have it's so amazing. They are these really

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cool pincushiony like globes. But if you see button bush

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growing around Grand Rapids, and you do it grows right

375
00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:54,440
downtown Grand Rapids along the river there, you're kind of like, uh,

376
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,440
like they're pretty scraggly, big ten feet tall kind of

377
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:04,000
scraggly plants. Whereas sugar shack, it's all about the size

378
00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:06,119
and the habit, so it's nice and around. It's about

379
00:21:06,319 --> 00:21:09,279
five to six feet tall, so people can actually use

380
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it in their yard. I mean, our winterbury hollies are

381
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,799
another great example of that same thing. Winterburry holly grows

382
00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:20,200
wild everywhere around here, but they're huge, They're absolutely massive plants,

383
00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:23,359
and our winter burry hollies have substantially smaller habits, so

384
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you can actually again fit them into your yard. And

385
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,519
now here's an interesting one. Simply sensational sweet shrub or

386
00:21:29,599 --> 00:21:31,359
kelly caanthus. I have one of these in my garden,

387
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,680
absolutely love it. A lot of people, especially in the Southeast,

388
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,519
are familiar with sweet shrub, very very popular. They remember

389
00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:43,759
their fragrance from their youth, such an incredible fragrance, but

390
00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:48,400
not a consistent fragrance. The fragrance varies a lot from

391
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,440
plant to plant, and you'll see all sorts of experts

392
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,200
talk about this. Well, simply sensational was selected because it

393
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,599
is extremely fragrant, and by perpetuating that, you know that

394
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,359
the plant that you get is going to have that

395
00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:03,880
fragrance that you want and do everything that you want

396
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,000
it to do. So you know, I really don't think

397
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that there is a reason that native of ours and

398
00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:14,480
native plants and native plant purists can't coexist. I think

399
00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:17,039
there is space for all of these things, and that

400
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,720
we all need to give each other grace and space

401
00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:23,160
to kind of be on our own journey as we

402
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:26,000
find our way to not just being better gardeners, but

403
00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:29,599
you know, being better stewards of our own yards and

404
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the earth.

405
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Speaker 3: So you're here.

406
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Speaker 2: That's a lot for a little plants on trial. But anyway,

407
00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:38,400
we're gonna take a little break after that, and when

408
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,319
we come back, we'll be answering some garden questions. So

409
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:50,599
please stay tuned. At Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs, we

410
00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:53,599
know that a better landscape starts with a better shrub.

411
00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:56,680
Our team of experts tests and evaluates all of our

412
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,599
flowering shrubs and evergreens for eight to ten years to

413
00:22:59,759 --> 00:23:04,160
ensure or they outperform what's already on the market. For easycare, reliable,

414
00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:08,039
beautiful shrubs to accentuate your home and express your personal style,

415
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,880
look for Proven Winners Shrubs in the distinctive white container

416
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,519
at your local garden center, or learn more at proven

417
00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:19,079
Winner's Color Choice dot Com. Reading's gardening friends, and welcome

418
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,200
back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where it is our

419
00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:25,000
pleasure to answer your gardening questions. And it is definitely

420
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,559
gardening question season. I know I've been hearing from gardeners

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00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,279
all over the place, and you know, you can always

422
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,160
leave a comment on YouTube. We do read all of

423
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,799
those and see all of those, and if Adriana has

424
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:38,839
a question she can't answer, she just asks me and

425
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,880
we get you an answer there. But you can also

426
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,680
write us at Gardening Simplified on air dot com. There's

427
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,880
a contact tab and we will do our best to

428
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,319
answer your question. But I know sometimes gardening questions are

429
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,920
very timely. I mean not to the point where you're like,

430
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,680
I'm in the garden right now and I need to

431
00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:54,480
know in five minutes. We can't help you there.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I like that. That's good.

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00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: But if it is the question that can wait, you

434
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,640
can always reach us at Proven Winners color Choice dot

435
00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:05,680
com and that will grow right to one of our

436
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,599
horticulturists who will send you a personalized answer. Provenwinners dot

437
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,640
Com also does the same thing if you have questions

438
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,400
about annuals or perennials, or houseplants or palladiums or any

439
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,720
of that other stuff. So we're always trying to help

440
00:24:17,799 --> 00:24:20,400
you out. What do we got in the mailbag today.

441
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Speaker 1: Ginny writes to us, so enjoy your show each week.

442
00:24:24,079 --> 00:24:27,200
Thanks Ginny. I read where there are pros and cons

443
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,720
about putting coffee grounds in the garden soil. What are

444
00:24:29,799 --> 00:24:32,720
your thoughts? Also? Could you address what is good what

445
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,759
is not so good for the garden soil. I host

446
00:24:35,799 --> 00:24:38,519
a group of gardeners in spring and fall. Would like

447
00:24:38,599 --> 00:24:43,920
to share this with them. Thank you, and I boy Stacey,

448
00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:47,599
I use coffee grounds. I like them. I think they're organic.

449
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,319
I find the worms are busy in there. I just

450
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,319
think using it as a compost is key. Don't use

451
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it as a molt.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely. And you know, of course everybody knows you

453
00:24:58,839 --> 00:25:00,640
can go to coffee shops and the usually got their

454
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old grounds there waiting for you to go ahead and use.

455
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,759
But they don't really give you a lot more than

456
00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:07,599
just saying like grounds for the garden. You're just like, okay,

457
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but what do I do with the grounds for the garden?

458
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but in this case, the ends justify the beans.

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Speaker 2: I know you're going somewhere. Thank it took me a second.

460
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But but great news, Jinny. I have an excellent resource

461
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,720
for you and your gardening group and we will post

462
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:28,279
it in the show notes at Gardening Simplifying on air

463
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,319
dot com. But Linda Chalker Scott, she is a professor

464
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,799
and extension agent out in Washington State where they know

465
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,599
a thing or two about coffee and she has an

466
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,440
excellent horticultural mythbusting sheet on coffee grounds in the garden.

467
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,279
You can also just search for Linda Chalker Scott coffee grounds.

468
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It will come right up, and you know her verdict

469
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,599
is that they are overall good, but she definitely cannot

470
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,880
overdo it and you cannot really use them as a mulch.

471
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If you want to use them as a malch, make

472
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,880
sure it's a thin, thin layer. Coffee grounds can compas

473
00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:03,279
very easily and that can make it difficult for the

474
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,279
water to get through. They can also kind of just

475
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,559
like turn like kind of krusty and gross looking. But

476
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,759
they are an excellent amendment to compost. So if you

477
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,039
compost by all means, take your coffee grounds add it

478
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:21,480
to the compost. And people think that coffee grounds tend

479
00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:24,519
to make the soil acidic I'm sure I have heard

480
00:26:24,599 --> 00:26:26,440
from many gardeners who have said something like, oh, I

481
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,960
put coffee grounds on my high ranges and they turn blue. Actually,

482
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,880
coffee grounds are not necessarily acidic. The pH of the

483
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,880
coffee grounds themselves can vary a lot in Professor Chalker

484
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,119
Scott talks about this a bit in that fact sheet,

485
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,839
So you can't count on it as a reliable soil

486
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,480
acidifier or having any kind of predictable effect on the

487
00:26:47,599 --> 00:26:53,039
pH at all. And it can actually inhibit some seed germination,

488
00:26:53,799 --> 00:26:56,440
So not a great choice necessarily in vegetable garden. If

489
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,480
you're starting a lot of stuff by seed couple of

490
00:26:59,519 --> 00:27:04,599
other species, it actually improved seed germination. So basically, coffee

491
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,200
is all over the place. It is a good organic amendment,

492
00:27:08,319 --> 00:27:11,519
whether or not your coffee is organically grown. The coffee

493
00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:14,319
grounds themselves are organic that came from a living thing,

494
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:17,079
So it's best to think about it as an organic

495
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,240
amendment to your compost or soil. But you want to

496
00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:23,400
mix it in. You want to be sparing in how

497
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,279
you use it, unless you're adding it to your compost,

498
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,119
in which case layer it up, put it in there

499
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,440
and let it rot.

500
00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:30,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. I mean, there's a reason they

501
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,400
call them grounds, right.

502
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,759
Speaker 2: I mean to put them in the ground. Yeah, oh,

503
00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:34,119
I get it.

504
00:27:34,279 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean, or I think I think it's great to

505
00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:38,680
use them. But you do have to bear in mind

506
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:41,640
that they are not a complete fertilized.

507
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 2: They are definitely not and they are not a cure all.

508
00:27:43,079 --> 00:27:44,759
You know, a lot of times people like to think, oh,

509
00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:46,640
this thing is natural, and so it's going to do X,

510
00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:49,359
Y and z. But we have talked about in the

511
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,599
past how there's so much misinformation out there. A lot

512
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,920
of times just because something feels like it should be

513
00:27:55,039 --> 00:27:57,119
true does not mean that it is. Like the whole

514
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,720
thing about coffee grounds acidifying the soil, it doesn't actually

515
00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:00,359
work that way.

516
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: So and you didn't like the ends justify the beans.

517
00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 2: It's okay, not one of your better puns, but it's

518
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,839
it's pretty good. I'm gonna give it a B minus.

519
00:28:10,039 --> 00:28:13,039
Speaker 1: Oh nice, try better luck next time.

520
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't the cream of the crop.

521
00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: Rick, Okay, thank you. Moving on, let's take a look here.

522
00:28:20,599 --> 00:28:23,720
Debbie is wondering. I just ordered a snowflake y Burnham.

523
00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:25,880
I'm in zone five B. Can I plant it?

524
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: Now?

525
00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 2: All right?

526
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:26,839
Speaker 1: Now?

527
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 2: I wanted to answer this question from Debbie and for

528
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,759
anyone else who is wondering, because at this time of year,

529
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,759
and especially in a season like we're having this particular

530
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,640
year here in Michigan and probably most of the Midwest,

531
00:28:38,799 --> 00:28:42,000
people wonder if they can plant now. And the simple

532
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:45,519
fact is that since it is still quite cold here

533
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,200
in Michigan, if you have a plant that is actively growing,

534
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,279
so I'm talking about like a shrub or a perennial

535
00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:56,039
or a tree, not necessarily like pansies or things that

536
00:28:56,079 --> 00:29:00,880
are intended for outdoor, you know, decoration like that, chances

537
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,720
are if it has foliage on it, that foliage is

538
00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:08,960
not remotely ready to deal with the cold in your area,

539
00:29:09,119 --> 00:29:09,880
because odds are.

540
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,599
Speaker 1: It's coming out of a greenhouse or a covered structure.

541
00:29:12,839 --> 00:29:16,599
But if the plant is outdoors, yes, and mimics what

542
00:29:16,759 --> 00:29:20,000
the plants are doing within the landscape, go right ahead

543
00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:20,920
and plant, then it's safe.

544
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,599
Speaker 2: Right, So you don't always know, but you know, if

545
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,599
a plant has been in a greenhouse and you're just like,

546
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,240
that's beautiful, I want to plant it. That foliage is

547
00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:32,559
so tender, and if it gets even into the thirties,

548
00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:34,920
it doesn't even necessarily have to freeze, all of that

549
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,759
foliage is just going to turn brown. You'll feel really sad.

550
00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:40,160
It probably won't kill the plant unless it's a super

551
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,680
severe frost or freeze, but she'll be sad, and you'll

552
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,480
be sad that you put all the money into that

553
00:29:45,519 --> 00:29:47,079
plant and all the time and planting it, and now

554
00:29:47,119 --> 00:29:49,640
it no longer looks beautiful. So you have to keep

555
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,559
a close eye on the weather. If you are shopping

556
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,799
at a garden center, be sure to ask them. You know,

557
00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:56,960
they should be able to tell you how the plants

558
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,359
were kept, and that can help you determine whether you

559
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,920
plant them right then and there, what you got another

560
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,279
pun on a tip of your tongue.

561
00:30:04,279 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: There, I just was going to say, better latte than never.

562
00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:08,759
Just keep going.

563
00:30:09,079 --> 00:30:10,599
Speaker 2: You know, I'm starting to be able to tell what

564
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,319
he's got one like the vibes shift and it's like

565
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:19,799
a balloon blowing up until it bursts. So don't be

566
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,160
afraid to ask your garden center. And when in doubt,

567
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,200
you know, buy it, enjoy it, and then just bring

568
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,680
it inside on nights that it's going to be super cold,

569
00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:31,480
and then wait until pretty much the danger of frost

570
00:30:31,559 --> 00:30:33,839
has passed. Unless you want to be running out there

571
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:36,240
every night if the frost or freeze threatens and covering

572
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:39,079
it with a blanket. So we have a question here

573
00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:43,000
from Jennifer. She is in Texas and she says they've

574
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,880
recently had a lot of rain and it's causing the

575
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,880
branches of her white pillar rows of sharon to become floppy.

576
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,519
She says, they're nearly six feet tall, and I've never

577
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:53,759
pruned them. She says. I want to say, I heard

578
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:56,160
Stacy say to prune one third of this type of plant,

579
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,279
but I'm not sure how or why can someone confirm.

580
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,599
So I want to address this because this is a

581
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,519
question that comes up relatively frequently for the pillar hibiscus

582
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:09,039
and the so pillar hibiscus are plants in the proven

583
00:31:09,079 --> 00:31:11,799
win there's color choice line that naturally grow with a

584
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,680
really narrow columnar habit So instead of being a big,

585
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,319
you know, eight feet tall and wide Rosa sharon, these

586
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,640
grow very narrow, so like three to four feet and

587
00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:24,599
then they get tall. But one of the things that

588
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,839
can happen with Rosa sharon, especially in warmer climates like Texas,

589
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,640
if they get a growth spurt, like they get a

590
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,960
lot of water, it's spring they're in full growth mode,

591
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,960
they may be fertilized. That can lead to floppy growth.

592
00:31:38,079 --> 00:31:41,839
The growth comes out so fast that the plant doesn't

593
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,880
have time to harden off its cells and turn them

594
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,599
into fully woody cells, and so they do flop over.

595
00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:52,559
And you know, usually that's just a situation of weather conditions,

596
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,359
but it can also happen if the branches start to

597
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,880
get heavy. So if this starts to happen to you,

598
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:01,880
I would recommend number one that you actually, instead of

599
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,720
cutting them back by a third, which you can do.

600
00:32:04,519 --> 00:32:06,400
If you do that, try not to go for the

601
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,880
buzz cut. Look, make your cuts a little bit more

602
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,559
here and there, not just like one straight cut across

603
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,640
with the old hedge tremors. But you can also sort

604
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,599
of identify the main branches and then thin out the

605
00:32:18,759 --> 00:32:20,680
side branches. And that's going to take a lot of

606
00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:24,640
weight away from those branches and help them stand up.

607
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,000
And you can also use a combination of the two.

608
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:31,119
But Rosa Sharon, especially in a climate like Texas, you've

609
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,240
got nothing to worry about in terms of how much

610
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:36,519
you can remove. You can definitely cut these back fairly hard.

611
00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:38,599
Obviously you're using them for coverage you're not going to

612
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,759
cut them back to the ground, but in terms of

613
00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:43,279
thinning them and trying to get those stems back up,

614
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,839
just a combination of reducing the height and reducing the

615
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,960
extra weight of those side branches should do the trick.

616
00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:54,119
And I would definitely recommend if you are fertilizing and

617
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:55,920
or if you have a lawn service. A lot of

618
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,160
people don't realize that if they have a lawn service

619
00:32:59,319 --> 00:33:02,079
and they're coming in and applying high nitrogen fertilizers to

620
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,079
maintain a lawn, that kind of actually impact plants that

621
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,559
are in the lawn or are surrounding the lawn and

622
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,480
pushing a lot of growth. So if you are fertilizing this,

623
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,200
definitely cut back. Let the plant have some time to

624
00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:17,319
harden off those cells, which will happen naturally as the

625
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:21,759
season progresses. But yeah, springtime sometimes under ideal conditions, can

626
00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:22,799
push a lot of growth like that.

627
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you, don't cut it to the ground,

628
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,559
but be aggressive in my opinion, and I think you'll

629
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:30,279
derive benefit from it.

630
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and rosa sharing can take it so especially you know,

631
00:33:33,519 --> 00:33:35,400
sometimes if you're in a hotter climate, you've got to

632
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:37,960
just do a little more than we have to do

633
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,039
up here in Michigan where sometimes we're just hoping something

634
00:33:41,319 --> 00:33:44,440
grows at all. Jennifer, now would be a perfect time

635
00:33:44,519 --> 00:33:46,119
to do that in spring. You know, when it comes

636
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,400
to this kind of pruning, you can prune it whenever

637
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,559
you need to. It doesn't really matter that much because

638
00:33:51,559 --> 00:33:53,480
you're not you don't have to worry about the flowers.

639
00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:55,960
It's still gonna flower. It's still early enough in the season,

640
00:33:56,079 --> 00:33:58,160
So I would go ahead and do that pruning now,

641
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:00,200
get it back to where you need it to be,

642
00:34:00,519 --> 00:34:02,359
and you should be in good check by the time

643
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,680
it does flower for you, probably in a couple of

644
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,839
weeks down the road. So we're gonna take a little break.

645
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,400
When we come back, we're going to be talking with

646
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,880
Mike Connor about more native ours and native fund So

647
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:20,639
please stay tuned. Thanks for listening to the Gardening Simplified Podcast,

648
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,519
brought to you by Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs. Our

649
00:34:23,559 --> 00:34:26,559
award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens are trialed and tested

650
00:34:26,599 --> 00:34:29,519
by experts with your success in mind. Learn more at

651
00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:31,280
Proven Winners color Choice dot com.

652
00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:37,039
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show today for branching

653
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:40,880
news and interview with our friend back by popular demand,

654
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,440
although he's a tree guy, so I'll say back by

655
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:50,440
poplar demand. Mike Connor a horticulturist, arborist and pollination expert.

656
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,920
Be expert, Mike. Always great to have you on the show.

657
00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for inviting me back. I never can

658
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,239
get over the fact that you invite me to speak again.

659
00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:01,280
Thank you well.

660
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: We love to tap into your expertise, and it appears

661
00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:09,639
that our viewers and listeners also enjoy it asking us

662
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,519
to bring you back, and so here we are. We

663
00:35:13,639 --> 00:35:16,480
knew we'd be talking about native ours today, so I

664
00:35:16,599 --> 00:35:22,719
sent Mike b mail. Did you get that, Mikey? Yeah,

665
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,559
you bet? And Mike said that he would he would

666
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:28,960
come on the show. So Mike, I guess let me

667
00:35:29,039 --> 00:35:32,760
ask just right off the top, in your opinion, being

668
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:38,119
the b expert you are, are native ours beneficial to pollinators?

669
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,039
Speaker 3: Absolutely? There are a few exceptions, but generally we can

670
00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:50,199
say that native ours are more beneficial to pollinators as

671
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,400
a group than the species, and that's because of extended

672
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,800
bloom time. That's because people are planting more of them.

673
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,360
In other words, it's if it's a pretty plant, you're

674
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,639
going to plant it and the bees will benefit. So yeah,

675
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,159
I like most of the native ours that we have

676
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:07,639
out there.

677
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,119
Speaker 2: Well, tell us about those exceptions then, because you know,

678
00:36:10,199 --> 00:36:13,159
I think that is it's those couple of exceptions out

679
00:36:13,199 --> 00:36:16,639
there that have really kind of, uh, you know, spoiled

680
00:36:16,679 --> 00:36:19,760
the whole shebang for a lot of people. And they

681
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,360
just decide that they uniformly hate native ours and it's

682
00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:25,480
wrong to plant them without really looking, you know, more

683
00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:28,800
critically and deeply at what actually is making any given

684
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,239
plant a native ar or different from the native species

685
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,360
you'd find walking in the woods or the meadow or whatever.

686
00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:38,519
Speaker 3: I know, And that's really become not only a political issue,

687
00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:40,960
but I think for some people, almost to religious issues,

688
00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:43,679
they have to have the plant that was here before

689
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,519
your opinions came to America or before you know, any

690
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:52,159
other group came to America. And so they've defined and

691
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,719
they say that at this particular time in history, this

692
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,320
is our base and we can't change anything from that base.

693
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,199
And that's one side of the group. And that would

694
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:07,599
be exemplified by famous authors and common proponents would be

695
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,360
Doug Tellumy for instance, with his great books. I've met Doug.

696
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,000
He's a very interesting guy. I think that he's strongly opinionated,

697
00:37:17,079 --> 00:37:19,199
but he does bring up a few good points where

698
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:24,920
he says that we can develop a native ar that

699
00:37:25,199 --> 00:37:29,639
becomes completely non attractive to our pollinators. One example would

700
00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:33,880
be like the annabel hydrangea, which is a native ar.

701
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:39,320
It's an arborescuence hydrangea, but it's very, very philoriferous. But

702
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,840
the flowers are not attractive, they're not fertile, they don't

703
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,480
have any nectar, so basically they become a pollinator desert.

704
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,039
But that's an exception. There are a lot of other

705
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,719
really positive things out there that we can talk about.

706
00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:58,800
One other negative towards the native urs is that where

707
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,960
are we going to de find what's native? Is that

708
00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:05,920
just your backyard? Is that the United States? Is that

709
00:38:06,199 --> 00:38:10,159
North America? How are we going to define these terms?

710
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,000
And so we move a plant in, which I'm sure

711
00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:15,119
you guys have experienced, to move a plant in from

712
00:38:15,159 --> 00:38:19,880
another part of Michigan, somebody may protests and say, well,

713
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,880
that's not native to my area. On the other hand,

714
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,360
there are people who will say, well that is native

715
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,440
to Michigan, so it's something that I want in my garden.

716
00:38:28,639 --> 00:38:32,920
So we develop native ours from these trees or I'm sorry,

717
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,199
trees that's all I think about, from these native plants,

718
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,679
and some people love them with some people hate them.

719
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,840
And I understand the controversy. It's really intense because we

720
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,280
could be diluting down genetic diversity. That's one argument. I

721
00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:53,480
don't know that that's really really part of the problem.

722
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,480
I think that we have to look at solutions, in

723
00:38:56,679 --> 00:38:59,719
my mind, to a problem that is out there, which

724
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,239
is we lack the forage for our native bees and

725
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,280
for our honey bees, and anything we can do that

726
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,880
provides be forage fills in those gaps, fills in the

727
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,719
gaps where there is no b forage spring or later

728
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,639
in the fall. Whether that's a native ar or a

729
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,880
native plant, I really don't care as long as it's

730
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,159
being utilized by natives and honey bees.

731
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was thinking while you were talking,

732
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,519
both Rick and I, you know, living out here by

733
00:39:28,559 --> 00:39:30,840
the lake shore, live in what would be if it

734
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,920
hadn't been developed a dune environment, and it would be

735
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,239
pretty much all dune grass, which is when pollinated and

736
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,519
not necessarily particularly value. It has its own ecological value,

737
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:44,239
of course, but as far as attracting pollinators and sustaining

738
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,760
insects and trying to help all of our native bees

739
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,679
and all of that. You know, if we were to

740
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,880
just let our landscapes be truly native as to what

741
00:39:51,079 --> 00:39:54,280
they are, we'd probably just have a lot of ticks

742
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,360
and not a lot of fun sex and it wouldn't

743
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:58,119
be that great.

744
00:39:58,039 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 3: Except a lot of kicks and spiders and not many pollinators.

745
00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:07,119
Ye have, absolutely correct, because you know, nature is always changing.

746
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:09,440
You know, the forest and the trees that we have

747
00:40:09,519 --> 00:40:11,400
today are not the forests and the trees that our

748
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:17,400
grandfathers had. Our grandparents and the environment that our grandparents

749
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,519
had is not the environment that their grandparents had. Everything

750
00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:24,960
is changing. Everything is on this continuum. Everything is going.

751
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,679
And you know, if we want to go back far enough,

752
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,760
we can say, well, you know, ten or twelve thousand

753
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,639
years ago, there was a mile of ice above us.

754
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:33,719
So you know, things have changed a lot in the

755
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,880
last ten or twelve thousand years. So I believe that

756
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,679
things are always changing. We're not in this period of

757
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,280
you know, what they call uniformitarianism, where nothing changes, everything

758
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,880
is as it was, because you know, with our own

759
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,280
eyes we see that's not what's actually happening. So as

760
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:56,239
plants come in, as plants change, as the environment changes,

761
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,320
you know, the needs of our pollinators will change, the

762
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,840
needs of our insects will change. And in preparation for

763
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,480
this talk, and I reached out to a friend of mine,

764
00:41:08,679 --> 00:41:12,599
doctor Daniel Potter. He's at the University of Kentucky, and

765
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,679
I was talking to him and he said, well, you know,

766
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,440
I wrote a paper about this, really, so he sent

767
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,960
me a copy of paper and he compared native milk

768
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,960
weeds with native our milk weeds. And after you read

769
00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:30,480
his nineteen page paper, and you realize that there is

770
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:36,000
no real difference. And he said, in conclusion, if this

771
00:41:36,199 --> 00:41:39,559
is what it takes to get milkweed out into the

772
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,679
environment in order to provide food for our butterflies and

773
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,760
our bees and our especially har monarch butterflies, it's very

774
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,880
important that we be promoting the use of native ours,

775
00:41:51,639 --> 00:41:56,000
especially in urban gardens, because they're attracting our insects, they're

776
00:41:56,039 --> 00:42:01,280
attracting our you know, our wildlfe. And it's not just

777
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,400
to see in milk weeds that he talks about. But

778
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,800
you know, if you get talking to me, talk about

779
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,199
all these other native ours and culture bars that we

780
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,719
have in the environment.

781
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: You know, I think that's interesting, especially with milkweed as

782
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,960
the example, because you know, so many of us were

783
00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:20,440
conditioned in this way that like weeds in the yard

784
00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:23,920
aren't bad. Milk weed is a weed, and you know,

785
00:42:24,639 --> 00:42:27,679
people may be unwilling to let our you know, native

786
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,440
a sleepy ast Zoriacus grow wild in their yard thinking

787
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,039
of it as a weed, but they might be perfectly

788
00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:35,719
happy to go to the garden center and buy, you know,

789
00:42:36,199 --> 00:42:39,679
a selection of milkweed and feel like that's good enough,

790
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,000
and then that will start to again affect that change

791
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,280
where they're like, oh, wow, maybe I will let some

792
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,599
of those milkweed grow and see what happens.

793
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:50,159
Speaker 3: Right, Yep, I totally agree with that. It's kind of

794
00:42:50,199 --> 00:42:53,360
a gateway for people to start planting plants that are

795
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,719
more effective for our butterflies and our pollinators.

796
00:42:56,599 --> 00:43:00,519
Speaker 1: So, Mike, as a b expert and expert on pollination,

797
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,079
can you share a few native ours that are favorites

798
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:09,000
of yours if someone were to add them to their landscape.

799
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,079
Speaker 3: Wow, that's really a good question, you know, And you're

800
00:43:14,079 --> 00:43:16,960
gonna ask me for a specific variemety here, Rick, And

801
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,800
you know, I really really like the Agaskatchi. Some of

802
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,199
those native ours are absolutely astounding in the way that

803
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,400
they are attracting pollinators. They send your bloom times. One

804
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,239
of my favorites in the milkweeds would be the Cinderella.

805
00:43:31,559 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, so that's an esclipias incarnat a swamp

806
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,920
milk weed. Bit more pink flowers, right.

807
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 3: Very yeah, very pretty. Another one that I really like

808
00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:43,719
is one called gay butterflies.

809
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

810
00:43:44,599 --> 00:43:48,559
Speaker 3: And you know, basically, any of these milkweeds that are

811
00:43:48,559 --> 00:43:51,039
out there that are native ours are gorgeous. You know.

812
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:53,320
I like those things that once you plan them, you

813
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,760
don't have to go back and read plant the next

814
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,079
year or spend the money to plant it again next year.

815
00:43:59,159 --> 00:44:02,119
But milk are generally pretty good, and as you said,

816
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:05,880
a lot of people used to regard them as weeds.

817
00:44:06,639 --> 00:44:10,679
But nothing is passion going among people more than two things.

818
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,840
One is monarch butterflies and the other is pollinators. Would

819
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,000
be saved the bees, it would be, you know what's

820
00:44:18,079 --> 00:44:21,760
going on with you know, the honey bees, pollinators that

821
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,880
are in our country, and that stirs passion in people.

822
00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:27,679
But I think number one would be monarch butterflies.

823
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: Ye, people used to think of milkweed, Yes, Mike, you're correct,

824
00:44:33,559 --> 00:44:38,039
as weeds something to dispose yourself of. As a matter

825
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:40,880
of fact, that all changed during World War Two with

826
00:44:41,039 --> 00:44:46,000
doctor Boris Berkman and the collection of seed pods to

827
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,039
save the lives of aviators and sailors during World War

828
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:55,280
two to pack life vests, and slowly but surely the

829
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,639
whole public perception of milkweed changed, along with, of course

830
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,440
the benefit to pollinators and stacy to ask you if

831
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,480
you're keeping score at home, So essentially you're talking here

832
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,239
about Esclepias tuberosa.

833
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,679
Speaker 2: Tuberosa is the pink and the yellower orange one, yeah, yep.

834
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,679
But our regular native milkweed is Sclepias siriaka.

835
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,079
Speaker 1: For folks who want to buy one at.

836
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,159
Speaker 2: Y yeahbosa is usually that is a native one, and

837
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,320
it grows wild around here abundantly. But it is usually

838
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,599
those orange or yellow ones that you see the most stuff.

839
00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:34,639
And but the one that Mike mentioned, Cinderella, is increasingly

840
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,639
a you're increasingly able to find that, and its companion

841
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,440
plant is ice ballet, which is a white flowered.

842
00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 3: Fantastic version of that, and even ice bellet, by the way,

843
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:50,599
it's just an astounding display of flowers. Yeah, they're really great.

844
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 2: And the thing about Asclepias milkweed is it is not

845
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,039
a plant that likes the nursery environment. So it is

846
00:45:58,199 --> 00:46:00,360
definitely one of those plants that people need to maybe

847
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:01,960
take a little bit of a leap of faith when

848
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,840
they see it at the garden center and go, mmm,

849
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,119
I'm not sure that's worth the money. It's what's going

850
00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:09,400
on below the soil that counts. But asleepist they have

851
00:46:09,519 --> 00:46:13,199
a tap root. They don't really love the nursery environment,

852
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:14,880
but they're so important.

853
00:46:14,519 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 3: They they do, and sometimes they're hard to transplant. This experience,

854
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,079
I've grown some from seed and you can grow them

855
00:46:22,119 --> 00:46:23,519
in a pod and then when you go to plant

856
00:46:23,519 --> 00:46:25,400
them all sometimes they're going no, I don't think so,

857
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:26,840
I'm just gonna die wrong.

858
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: But I've had that experience too, you know my experience

859
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:37,880
in the landscape. Also you mentioned Agastaki. There's a cultivar

860
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:42,920
called meant to be or royal raspberry. Some people refer

861
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:48,320
to the plant as hissop, but talk about a pollinator, hummingbird,

862
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,920
be butterfly, magnet. In the landscape, I have some planted

863
00:46:54,039 --> 00:46:58,039
near miss Molly, but that beautiful in the combination of

864
00:46:58,159 --> 00:47:01,480
the two. They are co did on a July or

865
00:47:01,559 --> 00:47:07,440
August day in butterflies, bees, sphinx moths. It's it's amazing

866
00:47:07,519 --> 00:47:07,880
to watch.

867
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 3: Oh, you're absolutely right, that's one of my favorites. You

868
00:47:11,519 --> 00:47:13,639
mentioned two of my favorites right there. Rick, Thank you.

869
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 2: Now, Mike, I want to ask you, and we were

870
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,519
talking about this a little bit earlier in the show.

871
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,239
You know, I think there's a lot of publicity out

872
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,639
there and a lot of people trying to convince everyone

873
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,159
to plant natives and it's good for the environment. But

874
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,159
you know, honestly, what I think really needs to happen

875
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,320
is I think that insects need a little bit of

876
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,920
a pr campaign because I think that it's a really

877
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:41,559
hard sell. I think people are willing to grow different

878
00:47:41,599 --> 00:47:44,239
things and try to make their yards, you know, more

879
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,039
eco friendly or whatever that means, but it's hard I

880
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:53,519
think to convince people that attracting insects is a good thing. Now,

881
00:47:53,559 --> 00:47:56,519
you're a bee guy, you know, what do you what's

882
00:47:56,639 --> 00:48:01,440
kind of your message When people are fearful and reluctant

883
00:48:02,159 --> 00:48:05,079
because they just they're just so conditioned to think of

884
00:48:05,159 --> 00:48:08,559
insects as bad and dirty and harmful and gross, and

885
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,559
they don't want them around, I know.

886
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,679
Speaker 3: And that's that's really too bad, because our insect population

887
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,400
as a whole has decreased to cost America for a

888
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,639
lot of different reasons. They used to do windshield surveys

889
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,480
literally where how many bug splats were they're on the windshield,

890
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,920
and that has decreased over the last few years, and

891
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,440
so the insect populations have dropped. I mean, the one

892
00:48:32,639 --> 00:48:35,639
single most important plant you can put in for insects

893
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,840
in general is an oak tree. It's not any good

894
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,840
for our pollinators as such, but it's great for all

895
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,679
the other birds and for the environment. It's a real

896
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,440
keystone species. But if we're looking at at other plants

897
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,119
that we can put out there for insects, then I'm

898
00:48:54,199 --> 00:48:58,639
thinking of things that draw a lot of pollinators because

899
00:48:59,079 --> 00:49:03,000
they're getting from those milkley to good example, because you're

900
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:08,840
feeding the monarch butterfly, and you're providing nectar for insects

901
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,639
other than the monarch plus the monarch. And how do

902
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,320
we get around this idea of ooh insects. I just

903
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,119
responded to an email yesterday about this where a gentleman

904
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,440
is definitely afraid of bees, and he's defining the bees,

905
00:49:23,679 --> 00:49:26,440
and you know what, they weren't bees at all. They

906
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,079
were yellow jackets coming out of the ground attacking him

907
00:49:30,119 --> 00:49:34,920
in the summertime. And we have this mistaken idea that

908
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,440
all insects are bad. But the vast majority of native

909
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,960
bees will never sting you. They can't sting you, they

910
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,880
don't want to sting you. And it's kind of a

911
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,519
public perception. People like the idea. They get a one

912
00:49:47,679 --> 00:49:50,039
twuzy one. They talk about, well, we're going to plant

913
00:49:50,119 --> 00:49:53,239
for pollinators, and I think, oh good, you know, that's great,

914
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,519
But they like to have their flowers up high so

915
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,519
that they don't have to see them or encounter the

916
00:49:59,599 --> 00:50:03,880
insects there. I don't know if I'm answering your question

917
00:50:04,039 --> 00:50:04,159
or not.

918
00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 2: It's just, you know, I think that that is sort

919
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,559
of an you know, you mentioned Doug Tallamy, and I

920
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:12,320
think that he has done a lovely job of making

921
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,800
the case for why insects are merit conservation and how

922
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,199
much everything else, you know, depends on them. But I

923
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,760
still think, you know, the people who need to hear

924
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,639
that message are not reading Douglas. Tellmy they're the people

925
00:50:25,639 --> 00:50:27,559
who are in the garden center may have heard a

926
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:30,840
few things about native plants and think, yeah, you know,

927
00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:37,039
I'm interested, but like they don't know what to buy

928
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:39,639
because they don't know why they're doing it, and you know,

929
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,400
saying like oh, this is going to attract a ton

930
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,039
of insects. It's a selling point for me personally in

931
00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:47,320
the garden, but it's not a selling point for the

932
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,320
average person. So you know, it's and of course I

933
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,960
don't expect you to have a great answer. If you do, wonderful,

934
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,400
but you know how I feel like that is the

935
00:50:56,559 --> 00:50:59,719
hard work to be done here is, you know, helping

936
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,039
people understand how important it is to have insects in

937
00:51:03,119 --> 00:51:06,840
the garden. And you know, we were talking earlier in

938
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,159
the show too about how a native ar can help people,

939
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,159
you know, have a plant in the garden and start

940
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,239
to attract those insects and go, oh, well, you know what,

941
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:18,199
maybe this wasn't so bad. You know, this actually isn't

942
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:19,800
that scary. I was afraid I was going to have

943
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,599
some sort of you know, like horror movie level swarm

944
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,480
in my backyard, and it's like, actually, you know what,

945
00:51:26,599 --> 00:51:29,719
this is kind of lovely but yeah, I mean that's

946
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,559
a challenge, and I'm sure it's a challenge you deal

947
00:51:31,599 --> 00:51:32,639
with in your work as well.

948
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,519
Speaker 3: It is, and I'm sure Rick has covered the advantage

949
00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:38,639
of some of the native arts in regard to the

950
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,480
application of chemicals because so many of the native ours

951
00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:47,320
are disease resistant, so we have less spray that has

952
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,239
to go on them. And I'll tell you, as an arborist,

953
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,360
when I put in my arborist hat, I'll get a

954
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,119
call from someone who will say, oh, I have all

955
00:51:54,199 --> 00:51:57,880
these bugs. You know, wrong terminology, but will say, have

956
00:51:58,039 --> 00:52:00,519
all of these bugs in my oak tree to spray?

957
00:52:00,599 --> 00:52:03,480
And I'll say, you know what, unless they're spongy moth,

958
00:52:03,599 --> 00:52:05,920
I'm not going to We're not going to treat them.

959
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,039
We're going to leave them. And most people are okay

960
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,119
once you educate them on the benefits of insects and

961
00:52:13,159 --> 00:52:16,559
their oak tree. The disadvantage that I've run into is

962
00:52:16,599 --> 00:52:19,360
a lot of companies will go up to someone and say, oh,

963
00:52:19,559 --> 00:52:22,239
you have bugs, I will spray, and while I'm here,

964
00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:25,039
I will spray your garden, and I will also spray

965
00:52:25,119 --> 00:52:27,920
your shrubs. You know, I will kill all the insects

966
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:29,760
in your yard and I'm going to charge you a

967
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:31,880
lot of money and you feel good about it, but

968
00:52:32,039 --> 00:52:35,360
you've destroyed that whole ecosystem. So we need to take

969
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,360
a balanced approach as we look at insects in the

970
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,119
environment and say, first of all, identify it. Secondly, is

971
00:52:42,199 --> 00:52:45,760
it harmful to me? Or is it harmful to my

972
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,960
tree or shrub or landscape. You know, there is this

973
00:52:49,159 --> 00:52:52,000
point of diminishing returns where we can have a few

974
00:52:52,079 --> 00:52:54,559
insects in that land spe We can have a few

975
00:52:54,639 --> 00:52:58,119
that are surviving. A few gypsy moths or spongy maths

976
00:52:58,199 --> 00:53:00,719
are not a problem because they sure as a host

977
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,440
for the the parasitoids to the're feeding on them for

978
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:07,679
the next generation. So we can allow a few. Let's

979
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,800
let me get out of control problem. So I do

980
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,400
try to educate people. Let's not kill all the insects

981
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,039
in the environment. Let's try to keep some of them alive,

982
00:53:17,119 --> 00:53:18,920
and let's try to keep some of those host plants

983
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:20,079
to support them alive.

984
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,119
Speaker 1: It's all about becoming more and more bugweiser. There, Mike,

985
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,280
and I think a marketing campaign is afoot. I like

986
00:53:28,559 --> 00:53:32,760
the idea. I think back to years ago with Smoky

987
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,800
the Bear and only you can prevent forest fires. Let's

988
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,960
do something for insects, you know, if you had a

989
00:53:39,039 --> 00:53:43,199
cute little bee flies into the flower, you know, says honey,

990
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,960
I'm home, you know, or something like that. I think

991
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:46,559
I have the idea.

992
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 2: All right, you've got the groundwork already. Late there.

993
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:50,119
Speaker 1: We're going to work on it.

994
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 3: I don't know how your brain works. Rick, that's amazing.

995
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:54,559
Speaker 1: It's scary.

996
00:53:55,079 --> 00:53:55,280
Speaker 3: Mike.

997
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: Always a pleasure to talk to you, my friend. Thank

998
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:00,199
you for everything you do. Thanks for checking out with

999
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:04,000
us today on this topic of native of ours and

1000
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:05,239
happy springing to you.

1001
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, Yeah, take care.

1002
00:54:09,199 --> 00:54:10,039
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Mike.

1003
00:54:10,639 --> 00:54:13,280
Speaker 2: Well that was great, and honestly, I can't wait till

1004
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,679
the insects are back in my garden. It's still kind

1005
00:54:15,679 --> 00:54:18,559
of cool, so not many yet, but I'm ready for them.

1006
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:20,559
As soon as they come back, we'll welcome them with

1007
00:54:21,199 --> 00:54:24,599
gentle but open arms. So thanks so much to Mike

1008
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,760
Connor from Honeytree Nursery. Thank you, Rick, thank you, thank you, Adriana,

1009
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:30,320
and thanks so much to all of you. We hope

1010
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:31,599
you have a wonderful week ahead.