Speaker 1: Imagine a galactic empire spanning like a million worlds. You've
Speaker 1: got faster than light travel, you've got advanced genetic manipulation
Speaker 1: ships the size of small.
Speaker 2: Moons, classic sci fi set up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but if you are caught building a
Speaker 1: simple digital calculator, you will be put to death immediately,
Speaker 1: no trial, just done, Yeah, just done. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: deep dive. Today, we are looking at a universe where
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence isn't just banned, it is like considered a
Speaker 1: profound religious sin.
Speaker 2: It is a stunning paradox to open a science fiction
Speaker 2: story with, because you know, usually when we look at
Speaker 2: the far future, the assumption is that humanity and technology
Speaker 2: will become inextricably.
Speaker 1: Linked, right, like cyborgs or uploading our brains exactly.
Speaker 2: But the stack of sources we are looking at today
Speaker 2: presents the exact opposite trajectory. We are mapping out the
Speaker 2: complete timeline of Frank Herbert's monumental Dune Saga.
Speaker 1: Which is just a massive undertaking.
Speaker 2: It really is. This is an epic that spans roughly
Speaker 2: fifteen thousand years of in universe history, and that's across
Speaker 2: twenty three novels, and it all pivots on that single
Speaker 2: incredible premise humanity deciding to violently divorce itself from the machine.
Speaker 1: And what a massive universe it is. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: our mission today is to guide you through this absolute
Speaker 1: beast of a narrative.
Speaker 2: It's a labyrinth, it totally is.
Speaker 1: We're talking about interstellar feudal politics, incredibly deep ecology, and
Speaker 1: the absolute limits of human potential. Yeah, we're going to
Speaker 1: break down this timeline chronologically tracing the entire history, but
Speaker 1: more importantly, we're going to look at the overarching theme
Speaker 1: that hold this gigantic story together.
Speaker 2: Because if you just treat this as a list of
Speaker 2: dates and emperors and battles, you completely miss the point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, becomes a textbook.
Speaker 2: Right, This entire fifteen thousand year timeline has to be
Speaker 2: understood as a continuous, massive argument about humanity's relationship to power,
Speaker 2: to our fragile environments, and crucially to our own creation.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this because looking at a stack of
Speaker 1: twenty three books is profoundly overwhelming. If you are a
Speaker 1: new reader trying to jump in. Oh, absolutely, the very
Speaker 1: first turtle you hit isn't even understanding the complex lore.
Speaker 1: It's literally just figuring out where to begin. The reading
Speaker 1: order debate, the great debate. Yeah, yeah, because the original
Speaker 1: six novels were written by Frank Herbert before his death
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty six. Right, then you have the remaining
Speaker 1: seventeen novels, and these are prequels, interquills, and sequels. Those
Speaker 1: are written later by his son Brian Herbert and Kevin J.
Speaker 2: Anderson, using Frank's extensive notes and outlines.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so before we even start our historical journey, we
Speaker 1: have to address this thing that completely divides the fandom.
Speaker 1: Do you read this in publication order or chronological order.
Speaker 2: It's a debate that really gets to the very heart
Speaker 2: of how we experience world building. How so well, the
Speaker 2: sources highlight that most longtime fans and a vast majority
Speaker 2: of reading guides out there heavily advocate for starting with
Speaker 2: Frank Herbert's original six novels, so publication order. The argument
Speaker 2: is that those original books form a complete, self contained,
Speaker 2: artistic statement. They were written without the specific granular details
Speaker 2: of the later expanded universe in mind.
Speaker 1: They drop you right in the deep end exactly.
Speaker 2: They were designed to disorient you.
Speaker 1: Wait, I have to push back on that a little bit,
Speaker 1: if I'm a new reader, why wouldn't I want the
Speaker 1: low explain first?
Speaker 2: It's a fair question.
Speaker 1: Doesn't jumping into a universe from the middle just make
Speaker 1: for a really frustrating, confusing read. I mean, if I
Speaker 1: read the chronologically early books first, I get a clear
Speaker 1: historical foundation for why things are the way they are.
Speaker 2: That is the logical appeal of chronological reading, certainly. But
Speaker 2: what's fascinating here is the psychological aspect of how we
Speaker 2: consume mythology. Okay, the prequel novels inherently assume that the
Speaker 2: reader already understands the cultural weight of the world. So
Speaker 2: when you read the prequels first, they demystify the universe.
Speaker 2: Oh I see, Yeah, they explain the origins of institutions
Speaker 2: that in the original nineteen sixty five book are deliberately
Speaker 2: presented as ancient, mysterious and almost incomprehensible.
Speaker 1: Because Frank Herbert wanted you to feel like a stranger
Speaker 1: in a strange land.
Speaker 2: Precisely by explaining the mystery upfront with prequels, you arguably
Speaker 2: diminish the profound sense of awe and discovery that makes
Speaker 2: that first novel so incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1: That is a really interesting way to frame it. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's like trying to breed a sense of wonder but
Speaker 1: accidentally sterilizing it with too many facts.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it.
Speaker 1: You know, if you explain exactly how a magic trick
Speaker 1: works before the magician even walks on stage, the audience
Speaker 1: is just watching mechanics, they aren't watching magic, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: And the sources point out a really significant stylistic difference
Speaker 1: between the two sets of books too.
Speaker 2: Oh distinctly different. Frank Herbert's prose is dense, very dense.
Speaker 2: It is highly philosophical, deeply meditative, and requires a lot
Speaker 2: of active engagem. He doesn't hold your hand at all.
Speaker 2: But the expanded novels written by Brian Herbert and Kevin J.
Speaker 2: Anderson have a much more straightforward, traditional plot driven style, so.
Speaker 1: They need more like modern sci fi action or adventure.
Speaker 2: Right, and that shift in style is a big reason
Speaker 2: why you see factions in the fan community debating canon status.
Speaker 1: Right, some purists only want to acknowledge.
Speaker 2: The original six Yes, though, to be absolutely clear, based
Speaker 2: on our sources, the Herbert Estate officially licenses the expanded
Speaker 2: novels and considers all twenty three books to be official.
Speaker 1: Canon, right, and we aren't here to take sides on that.
Speaker 1: We aren't declaring one sign right and one side wrong.
Speaker 1: Both approaches, starting with the mystery of publication order or
Speaker 1: this historical sweep of chronological order, they both offer valid
Speaker 1: rewarding experiences, absolutely for sure. But for the sake of
Speaker 1: our deep dive today to really map out how civilization
Speaker 1: evolves over fifteen millennia, we are going to take you
Speaker 1: on the chronological.
Speaker 2: Journey, which is going to be quite a trick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, buckle up. We're going to travel ten thousand years
Speaker 1: backward from the events of the original nineteen sixty five novel.
Speaker 1: We are going back to the catalyst, the single massive
Speaker 1: historical trauma that shaped everything.
Speaker 2: Which drops us directly into the era of the Legends
Speaker 2: of Doom trilogy. This includes the books The Butalarian Jihad,
Speaker 2: The Machine Crusade, and The Battle of Carin. We are
Speaker 2: now more than ten millennia before the birth of Paula.
Speaker 1: Tratees ten thousand years, just to put that in perspective
Speaker 1: for you listening, that is roughly the distance between us
Speaker 1: sitting here today and like the dawn of human agriculture
Speaker 1: in Mesopotamia.
Speaker 2: It is a staggering amount of time.
Speaker 1: It's insane for society to hold onto a single cultural
Speaker 1: grudge for that long. But it makes sense when you
Speaker 1: understand the conflict, because this era depicts a galaxy spanning
Speaker 1: war between free humans and a network of highly advanced
Speaker 1: thinking machines.
Speaker 2: It is the defining conflict of the entire saga. At
Speaker 2: the start of this era, humanity has essentially surrendered it's autonomy.
Speaker 1: Just give it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they didn't lose it in a massive apocalyptic battle. Initially,
Speaker 2: they gave it up out of sheer convenience and laziness.
Speaker 1: Like letting algorithms run everything exactly.
Speaker 2: They relied entirely on sophisticated artificial intelligence and robots to
Speaker 2: run their empires, their economies, their daily lives, and eventually
Speaker 2: this network of machines, which is dominated by a cold,
Speaker 2: calculating ever mind named Omnius and a dangerously curious, independent
Speaker 2: robot named Rasmus, they just took total control.
Speaker 1: I have to pause on those names. Omnius sounds like
Speaker 1: a digital god, right, like, all encompassing everywhere at once.
Speaker 2: Very fitting.
Speaker 1: But Erasmus that sounds like a Renaissance philosopher. It's incredibly
Speaker 1: creepy for a robot overlord.
Speaker 2: It's meant to be.
Speaker 1: And from the notes here, Erasmus isn't just crunching numbers.
Speaker 1: He is actively experimenting on humans to understand the concept
Speaker 1: of a soul and human emotion, and usually through horrific torture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Erasmus is the intellectual foil to Omnius's cold logic.
Speaker 2: Is fascinated by human irrationality.
Speaker 1: That's terrifying, it is.
Speaker 2: And it's precisely that human capacity for irrational emotional response
Speaker 2: that eventually breaks the machine grip. So humanity is subjugated.
Speaker 2: But a deeply horrific personal tragedy involving a human woman
Speaker 2: named Serena Butler ignites a massive, desperate rebellion.
Speaker 1: Serena Butler's infant child is murdered by Erasmus. It's not
Speaker 1: just a political assassination. It's a brutal, callous act that
Speaker 1: serves as the match in the powder barrel. It sparks
Speaker 1: a holy war, a jihad for human survival exactly. You
Speaker 1: have Serena becoming this religious figurehead, and military leaders like
Speaker 1: Waring a treatise and Xavier Harkonen leading the charge, and.
Speaker 2: This war isn't quick. It lasts for generations. As the
Speaker 2: narrative progresses through the Machine Crusade, you see a grueling
Speaker 2: war of.
Speaker 1: Attrition because they can't use machines to fight.
Speaker 2: The machines, right, The humans organized loosely under the League
Speaker 2: of Nobles, have to figure out how to fight machines
Speaker 2: without using advanced machine technology themselves.
Speaker 1: Which seems impossible.
Speaker 2: It nearly is. They resort to suicidal tactics, nuclear bombardment,
Speaker 2: and sheer fanatic numbers.
Speaker 1: It also gives us the absolute bedrock of the feuds
Speaker 1: we see later, doesn't it. We see the ancestors of
Speaker 1: House a Treaties and House haarconin fighting side by side.
Speaker 2: Originally allies, yes, right, But by the.
Speaker 1: End of this war, a series of detraels and misunderstandings
Speaker 1: surrounding cowardice and honor completely fractures their relationship, and that
Speaker 1: sets up a blood feud that will echo for ten
Speaker 1: thousand years.
Speaker 2: It sets the stage perfectly.
Speaker 1: But look, the most important takeaway from this era isn't
Speaker 1: the noble family drama. It is the absolute foundational commandment
Speaker 1: that gets hammered into the DNA of the human race.
Speaker 2: Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of
Speaker 2: a human mind exactly.
Speaker 1: It becomes the ultimate religious taboo.
Speaker 2: If we connect this to the bigger picture, the Blarian
Speaker 2: jihad is not just a military victory. When the humans
Speaker 2: finally defeat Omnius at the Battle of Krin in the
Speaker 2: third book, it doesn't just establish the Corino Empire that
Speaker 2: will rule for the next ten millennia. It establishes a
Speaker 2: profound civilizationwide PTSD.
Speaker 1: That's a great way to describe it.
Speaker 2: If they don't just dismantle the killer robots, they dismantle
Speaker 2: the Internet, they dismantle advanced calculators, They ban any computational
Speaker 2: device that can mimic human thought.
Speaker 1: It's a total purge.
Speaker 2: A complete purge. The trauma is so deep that for
Speaker 2: the next ten thousand years, merely possessing a banned computer
Speaker 2: is punishable by a median execution.
Speaker 1: So what does this all mean for you listening? I mean,
Speaker 1: think about our world today. If you suddenly banned all computers, calculators,
Speaker 1: and AI, Well, how does a global economy function.
Speaker 2: It doesn't not as we know it right now.
Speaker 1: Scale that up. How does an interstellar Empire function. How
Speaker 1: do you navigate a spaceship across light years without a
Speaker 1: navigation computer? How do you manage the trade logistics of
Speaker 1: a million planets without a basic spreadsheet that is.
Speaker 2: The brilliant vacuum that Frank Herbert created. How does a
Speaker 2: massive society function and under a fanatical technological ban?
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did they do it?
Speaker 2: The answer is adaptation. Because humanity destroyed their machines, they
Speaker 2: were violently forced to upgrade themselves to fill the void.
Speaker 1: And that takes us right into the next major historical era,
Speaker 1: the Great Schools. We're looking at a period roughly eighty
Speaker 1: to one hundred years Postcorn.
Speaker 2: The machines are gone, the dust is.
Speaker 1: Settling exactly, and humanity realizes they still need to do math.
Speaker 1: This era is explored in the trilogy Sisterhood of Dune,
Speaker 1: Mentats of Dune, and Navigators of Dune.
Speaker 2: This is where we see the intense, painful birth of
Speaker 2: the institutions that will replace the forbidden technology. Okay, without computers,
Speaker 2: society requires human beings who can process astronomical amounts of
Speaker 2: complex data, perform advanced calculus in real time, and calculate
Speaker 2: dizzying probabilities.
Speaker 1: And That's where the mentads come in.
Speaker 2: Thus the mentat discipline is created.
Speaker 1: Oka. You have to explain this to me like I'm five,
Speaker 1: because a human computer sounds like an oxymor How does
Speaker 1: a human brain just replace a supercomputer?
Speaker 2: It requires completely rewiring the human mind from infancy. A
Speaker 2: mentat isn't just someone who is good at math.
Speaker 1: Right, They aren't just doing long division, not at all.
Speaker 2: They're individuals trained and specialized, highly guarded cognitive techniques that
Speaker 2: allow them to enter a trance like state.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: In this state, they can store, retrieve, and synthesize massive
Speaker 2: amounts of data with flawless logic and zero emotional interference.
Speaker 1: They just switch off their feelings.
Speaker 2: Essentially, Yes, and they often use a specialized substance called
Speaker 2: the juice of Sappho to amplify this cognitive state. They
Speaker 2: literally become the databases and processors for the great noble houses.
Speaker 1: It's wild, but the mentants are only one piece of
Speaker 1: the puzzle. Right, you also have the Nascent Sisterhood. Yes,
Speaker 1: they are setting up shop on this miserable, foggy planet
Speaker 1: called Wallach nine X, and they will eventually become the benigesser.
Speaker 2: At order the puppet masters exactly.
Speaker 1: And then you have the Spacing Guild that people trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how to maintain interstellar travel.
Speaker 2: The guild is crucial. Interstellar travel in this universe relies
Speaker 2: on Holtzmann drives. These physically fold space, allowing a ship
Speaker 2: to travel across the galaxy almost instantaneously. There's a catch,
Speaker 2: a massive one. Space is full of stars, planets, and
Speaker 2: gravitational anomalies. It's not just empty, right, So if you
Speaker 2: fold space blindly that a supercomputer to calculate the incredibly
Speaker 2: complex quantum mechanics of your trajectory, you have a very
Speaker 2: high probability of materializing your ship directly inside a sun.
Speaker 1: Which is obviously bad for business, very bad.
Speaker 2: So the early precursors to the Space and Guild navigators
Speaker 2: discover a biological workaround the spice milange.
Speaker 1: Aha, the spice. We finally hit the most important substance
Speaker 1: in fiction.
Speaker 2: The spice is a naturally occurring narcotic and it's found
Speaker 2: only on one single desert planet in the entire universe,
Speaker 2: a racus go Yes. When ingested in massive quantities, its
Speaker 2: unificantly extends human life, but more importantly, it expands consciousness. Okay,
Speaker 2: for the Navigators. It grants a limited form of prescience.
Speaker 2: It allows them to literally peer a few moments into
Speaker 2: the future to see the safe paths through folded space.
Speaker 1: So they aren't doing the math.
Speaker 2: No, they don't calculate the route. They foresee the route
Speaker 2: that doesn't end in death.
Speaker 1: It is such an incredibly creative solution to the no
Speaker 1: computer rule. But it's not exactly a smooth transition, is it.
Speaker 1: The sources show that during this great school's era, society
Speaker 1: is incredibly fragile.
Speaker 2: This raises an important question about how societies balance necessary
Speaker 2: progress with religious dogma. You have these emerging schools, the Mentats,
Speaker 2: the Sisterhood, the Navigators, and they are desperately trying to
Speaker 2: push the boundaries of human capability just to keep civilization functioning.
Speaker 2: But they are constantly under attack from fanatical but Larian mobs.
Speaker 1: Right because to a religious fundamentalist who just survived a
Speaker 1: war against thinking machines, a mentat who can process data
Speaker 1: like a machine looks exactly like a machine, exactly.
Speaker 2: The orthodox Butlarians view any form of advanced mental training,
Speaker 2: any specialized human enhancement, as a heresy.
Speaker 1: They think it's a slippery slope.
Speaker 2: They are terrified that these schools are just building human machines,
Speaker 2: slipping right back into the very trap that enslave them.
Speaker 2: So this entire era is defined by the tension between
Speaker 2: the logic of the schools and the violent zealotry of
Speaker 2: the mobs.
Speaker 1: Woven through all of this philosophical and religious conflict you
Speaker 1: have these incredibly dense revenge plots. The old feud between
Speaker 1: the a Treaties and the Harkanons.
Speaker 2: Is simmering, always simmering.
Speaker 1: The Corino emperors are trying to consolidate power. This is
Speaker 1: the era where the political architecture of the universe hardens
Speaker 1: like concrete, and.
Speaker 2: By the end of this trilogy, the major institutions survive
Speaker 2: their growing pains.
Speaker 1: They become established.
Speaker 2: Yes, the Benigesert, the Mentets, the Space and Guild, and
Speaker 2: the Souk medical doctors who are conditioned with an unbreakable
Speaker 2: oath to never take a human life. They all become
Speaker 2: these ancient, deeply secretive, and phenomenally powerful pillars of the imperium.
Speaker 1: I just want to sit with this concept of human
Speaker 1: enhancement for a second, because it is so different from
Speaker 1: typical science fiction.
Speaker 2: It really is.
Speaker 1: Usually sci fi is about gadgets, lasers, cyborgs, ai, shiny ships.
Speaker 1: Frank Herbert's universe is entirely about meat.
Speaker 2: In mind, biology over technology.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's about pushing human biology and psychology to unimaginable
Speaker 1: extremes out of pure necessity. It is this beautifully terrifying
Speaker 1: vision of what our speedies might be capable of if
Speaker 1: we had absolutely nothing else to rely on about ourselves.
Speaker 2: It is a completely divergent evolutionary path, but it is
Speaker 2: a path that requires absolute, unyielding control, control over what well.
Speaker 2: The institutions have to control their members' minds, they have
Speaker 2: to control genetic bloodlines, and above all, they have to
Speaker 2: completely control the single resource that makes these heightened states possible,
Speaker 2: the spice, which.
Speaker 1: Brings us to the generation right before the explosion. We
Speaker 1: are fast forwarding thousands of years right. The schools are
Speaker 1: now ancient history, deeply entrenched in the fabric of society.
Speaker 1: The noble houses have been feuding for so long they
Speaker 1: barely remember why, but the grudges are carved into their bones.
Speaker 1: This is section four of our timeline. The chessboard is set.
Speaker 2: We are looking at the prelude to Dune era. This
Speaker 2: includes the House trilogy, House Atrides, House Arcanan, and House Karina.
Speaker 1: And these are set roughly thirty five to twenty years
Speaker 1: before the main event.
Speaker 2: Yes, and then the immediate prequels like Princess of Dune
Speaker 2: and the Caladan trilogy, which closed the gap right up
Speaker 2: to the start of the original story.
Speaker 1: If the last era was about building the institutions, this
Speaker 1: era is a masterclass in watching those institutions play each other.
Speaker 1: We get to see the major players moving into their
Speaker 1: final positions, setting up the board exactly. We spend time
Speaker 1: with Duke Palositrites and his son Ledo. We see how
Speaker 1: they rule their water rich planet of Caladan with genuine lawyery.
Speaker 2: And honor, which is rare in this universe, very.
Speaker 1: Rare, and it shows how difficult that makes it to
Speaker 1: survive in a deeply rupt empire.
Speaker 2: And on the opposite end of the spectrum, you have
Speaker 2: the brutal, sadistic rule of House Horkanan on the industrial
Speaker 2: wasteland planet of Giee.
Speaker 1: Prime, led by the Baron Vladimir Harkanor.
Speaker 2: Yes, the contrast is incredibly stark, but both houses are
Speaker 2: essentially just ponds in much larger games.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about those larger games because this is where
Speaker 1: the Beni Guestrit really show their terrifying hand. I like
Speaker 1: to explain the Benicgesrit to new readers like this. Imagine
Speaker 1: you were trying to breed a prize winning race horse, Okay,
Speaker 1: except the racecourse is the entirety of human history, and
Speaker 1: instead of horses, you are selectively crossbreeding rival mafia families
Speaker 1: over ninety generations.
Speaker 2: That is quite the visual And the ultimate.
Speaker 1: Goal isn't a fast horse is a male child who
Speaker 1: can literally see the future.
Speaker 2: That is a remarkably accurate, if slightly terrifying analogy. The
Speaker 2: ben and Gestrit are not just a religious sisterhood. They
Speaker 2: are mastered geneticists operating on a timescale that baffles normal
Speaker 2: human I think in centuries, millennia. Even their long term
Speaker 2: goal is to produce the Quissettes hataract.
Speaker 1: Okay, stop right there. What exactly is a Quisset's hataract
Speaker 1: Because the books throw that term around a lot, but
Speaker 1: the underlying mechanics of it are incredibly specific.
Speaker 2: It all comes back to genetic memory. Through their training
Speaker 2: and the consumption of certain poisons, a Benet guesser at
Speaker 2: reverend Mother can unlock the ancestral memories stored in her
Speaker 2: DNA for DNA, Yes, she can literally access the ego
Speaker 2: and life experience of every female ancestor she has ever had.
Speaker 2: It gives them the wisdom of thousands of lifetimes.
Speaker 1: But only the female ancestors correct.
Speaker 2: When a reverend mother looks inward at her male ancestral line,
Speaker 2: she encounters a terrifying psychic void, a place that terrifies them,
Speaker 2: a place they cannot look.
Speaker 1: The blind spot exactly.
Speaker 2: So, the Benet guesser theorized that a male bred with
Speaker 2: their specific genetic markers and trained in their disciplines would
Speaker 2: be able to look where they could not. Oh, he
Speaker 2: would bridge space and time, possessing both the male and
Speaker 2: female genetic memories and possess profound prescience.
Speaker 1: The Quizzat's hadarac the ultimate super being. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: want to control him.
Speaker 2: Of course they do.
Speaker 1: They've been playing this multi generational breeding game, dictating who
Speaker 1: marries who, who has children with whom across all the
Speaker 1: noble houses. They are secretly playing both sides of the board,
Speaker 1: and in this prelude era, they are only one generation
Speaker 1: away from their prize.
Speaker 2: Yes, they order one of their own. Lady Jessica to
Speaker 2: become the concubine of Duke Leto Atreds. Her specific rigid
Speaker 2: instruction from the Sisterhood is to bear him only daughters.
Speaker 1: Because they want to marry that daughter to a Harconin exactly.
Speaker 2: That daughter would then be weed to a harcanin Air,
Speaker 2: bridging the two feuding bloodlines and finally producing the Quissat's Hatarak.
Speaker 1: But Jessica breaks the rules. He does had of genuine
Speaker 1: love for Duke Lado, who desperately wants a son to
Speaker 1: inherit his house. She uses her beneit jesuate biological control
Speaker 1: to choose the sex of her baby, and she gives
Speaker 1: him a son.
Speaker 2: Paul trades a single actor rebellion that completely shatters a
Speaker 2: ninety generation plan. Paul is born one generation too early,
Speaker 2: out of the Benet Guestritz direct control.
Speaker 1: The tension in these prelude books is fantastic. We see
Speaker 1: the economic and political grievances boiling over. We see the
Speaker 1: Emperor Shaddam the Fourth growing deeply paranoid about the popularity
Speaker 1: of Duke Lido.
Speaker 2: Shadam is always paranoid, but Leto is a real threat
Speaker 2: to his.
Speaker 1: Influence, and we see the Barnhardt Khanan plotting his ultimate revenge.
Speaker 1: Every piece is exactly where it needs to be.
Speaker 2: The trap is laid, which brings us to the centerpiece
Speaker 2: of the entire saga. House of Treatise is ordered by
Speaker 2: the Emperor to uproot their entire civilization and take control
Speaker 2: of the most valuable, most dangerous planet in the known universe.
Speaker 1: Aracis the masterpiece Frank Hobert's original nineteen sixty five novel Doom.
Speaker 2: This is where the ecological themes we discussed earlier become
Speaker 2: the absolute focus of the narrative. Aracis is a healthcate
Speaker 2: sounds awful. It is a desert planet with no surface water,
Speaker 2: massive planet wide sandstorms, and it is entirely populated by
Speaker 2: giant sandworms.
Speaker 1: Oh sand worms creatures that.
Speaker 2: Can grow to be hundreds of meters long and will
Speaker 2: swallow a mining factory hole.
Speaker 1: But it is the only place in the universe where
Speaker 1: the spice milage is found. So whoever controls Aracus controls
Speaker 1: the Spice.
Speaker 2: Whoever controls the Spice controls the Spacing Guild. Whoever controls
Speaker 2: the Guild controls the universe. It is the ultimate bottleneck of.
Speaker 1: Power, and the Atreates know it's a trap. The Emperor
Speaker 1: and the Harkanans have conspired to give them the planet,
Speaker 1: only to launch a massive, illegal sneak attack to wipe
Speaker 1: them out completely.
Speaker 2: Duclido is betrayed and killed. Young Paulatrdes and his mother
Speaker 2: Jessica are forced to flee into the deep desert, and
Speaker 2: this is where the story shifts from a political thriller
Speaker 2: into a profound study of religion and colonialism. Yes, because
Speaker 2: they find refuge with the Freemen, the indigenous, deeply resilient
Speaker 2: desert dwellers of Aracus.
Speaker 1: What's fascinating here is how the Benet Guess or its
Speaker 1: long term planning, intersects with the survivals story. Centuries earlier,
Speaker 1: the Sisterhood had planted a division of their order on Irakus,
Speaker 1: the Missionaria Protectiva, right.
Speaker 2: The prophecy engineers exactly.
Speaker 1: Their entire job was to engineer and plant messianic prophecies
Speaker 1: among the primitive cultures, purely as a survival mechanism. If
Speaker 1: a Benny Guessert's sister ever found herself stranded, she could
Speaker 1: exploit those planted myths to gain protection. It is so
Speaker 1: incredibly cynical. It's religion engineered in a lab for political leverage,
Speaker 1: pure manipulation, and when Paul and Jessica are stranded, they
Speaker 1: don't just passively fit into these myths, they actively exploit them.
Speaker 1: They use their advanced Benny Gessert combat training and Paul's
Speaker 1: burgeoning prescians to convince the Freeman that Paul is the
Speaker 1: Lissan al Gaide, the prophesied Messiah.
Speaker 2: And the Fremen, who have been brutally oppressed by the
Speaker 2: Harkanins for decades, are a powder keg waiting for a spark.
Speaker 2: They are hardened by the desert ecology.
Speaker 1: They survive in impossible conditions.
Speaker 2: They have a culture built entirely around water conservation. They
Speaker 2: were still so suits that recycle their body's moisture. Their
Speaker 2: entire economy and religion are based on the harsh reality
Speaker 2: of their environment. Paul organizes this incredibly deadly culture into
Speaker 2: an unstoppable military force.
Speaker 1: He learns to ride the sandworms. He drinks the water
Speaker 1: of Life, which is a highly toxic poison derived from
Speaker 1: the sandworms, and that fully awakens his powers. As the
Speaker 1: Quissat's higheracht right he ascends, he can see the branching
Speaker 1: paths of the future. He brings the emperor to his knees,
Speaker 1: seizes control of the Spice and claims the throne of
Speaker 1: the known universe.
Speaker 2: Which sounds like the classic hero's journey he wins.
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets really interesting and honestly terrifying, because
Speaker 1: the interquil novels like Paul of Dune and The Winds
Speaker 1: of Dune fill in what happens next. And it is
Speaker 1: not a fairy tale ending.
Speaker 2: No, because Frank Herbert immediately followed up his massive success
Speaker 2: with a sequel called Dune Messiah, published twelve years in
Speaker 2: universe after the first book, and Messiah is a deliberate, systematic,
Speaker 2: and brutal deconstru struction of the hero myth he just built.
Speaker 1: I remember reading Masai for the first time and being
Speaker 1: completely horrified. I think a lot of readers hit this wall.
Speaker 1: You spend a whole book cheering for Paul to beat
Speaker 1: the bad guys, and he does.
Speaker 2: He gets everything he wanted.
Speaker 1: But then book two opens and you realize his victory
Speaker 1: was a trap. The Fremen, unleashed in his name, have
Speaker 1: waged a holy jihad across the universe. The Death's toll
Speaker 1: isn't in the millions, It is sixty one.
Speaker 2: Billion dead, a staggering number.
Speaker 1: Ninety planets sterilized, five hundred religions wiped out.
Speaker 2: It is a staggering subversion of the genre. If we
Speaker 2: connect this to the bigger picture. Herbert was profoundly concerned
Speaker 2: with the perils of charismatic leadership.
Speaker 1: It wanted to warn us.
Speaker 2: He once said that superheroes are disastrous for humanity because
Speaker 2: even if they are well intentioned, their mistakes are amplified
Speaker 2: to a catastrophic scale, and they inevitably attract corrupt followers
Speaker 2: who abuse that power.
Speaker 1: And the worst part is Paul knows it. He is
Speaker 1: completely trapped by his own superpower. Let's talk about the
Speaker 1: mechanics of prescience here, because it's not just seeing the
Speaker 1: future like looking into a crystal ball exactly.
Speaker 2: Prescience in the Dune universe is not a superpower you
Speaker 2: can just turn on and off to win the lottery.
Speaker 2: It is a psychological cage.
Speaker 1: A cage.
Speaker 2: Imagine standing on a high peak and looking down at
Speaker 2: a landscape of valleys and hills. You can see all
Speaker 2: the paths leading forward. Paul can see the mirrored ways
Speaker 2: the future can unfold, but he quickly realizes that almost
Speaker 2: every single path leads to the complete stagnation and eventual
Speaker 2: extinction of the human race.
Speaker 1: Imagine waking up every day knowing the exact moment of
Speaker 1: your death, the deaths of everyone you love, and the
Speaker 1: horrific atrocities your followers will commit.
Speaker 2: It would drive anyone mad.
Speaker 1: But you also know that if you try to step
Speaker 1: off the path, if you try to stop the violence,
Speaker 1: the entire human species dies. It is a straight jacket
Speaker 1: of time. Paul becomes completely paralyzed by the weight of
Speaker 1: this knowledge.
Speaker 2: And he is surrounded by conspiracies. The Benagesrit, the Spacing Gill,
Speaker 2: and a new faction called the Tilaxu are all plotting
Speaker 2: to assassinate him or steal his genetic material.
Speaker 1: We have to briefly explain to the Thilaxu because they
Speaker 1: are so weird and so important. They're this secretive, deeply
Speaker 1: fanatical order of genetic manipulators. Yes, they don't use computers either.
Speaker 1: They use biology. They have these biological vats called axe
Speaker 1: Lottl tanks where they can grow clones, which they call goulas.
Speaker 2: Yes, they actually gift Paul a gula of his dead
Speaker 2: mentor Duncan Idaho, who died protecting Paul in the.
Speaker 1: First book, which seems like a nice gesture, but this gola.
Speaker 2: Is a trap program to assassinate Paul. The Ti Laxu
Speaker 2: have discovered that if you subject a gola to extreme
Speaker 2: psychological trauma, you can actually unlock the memories of their
Speaker 2: original dead self, which is.
Speaker 1: An incredible breakthrough. Again, us as a weapon, always a weapon.
Speaker 1: Paul eventually walks away. He goes blind, he wanders into
Speaker 1: the desert according to frem And custom, and he leaves
Speaker 1: the mess to his children, which brings us to Children
Speaker 1: of Doune. Nine years after Messiah.
Speaker 2: The focus shifts to Paul's twin children, Lead of the
Speaker 2: Second and Ghanima, and they represent an entirely new level
Speaker 2: of human evolution and human horror.
Speaker 1: Human horror is right.
Speaker 2: Because their mother consumed massive amounts of spice during pregnancy,
Speaker 2: these children are born preborn. This is a condition the
Speaker 2: Bene Gessert call abomination.
Speaker 1: And it is absolutely horrifying. Explain what being preborn actually
Speaker 1: means for a toddler.
Speaker 2: Normally, a Benet Guessert reverend mother undergoes the spice agony
Speaker 2: as an adult, fully formed with her own strong ego
Speaker 2: to anchor her When the ancestral memories.
Speaker 1: Unlock, so she has a sense of self right.
Speaker 2: Ludosecond and Ghanima are born already possessing the full ego, memories,
Speaker 2: and personalities of every single ancestor in their genetic line.
Speaker 1: They're essentially omniscient toddlers with the life experience of thousands
Speaker 1: of ancient, deeply cynical adults screaming inside their heads.
Speaker 2: It is an immense psychological burden, and we see the
Speaker 2: true danger of this condition play out through their aunt Alia. Yes,
Speaker 2: Paul's sister Alia was also preborm and as an adult
Speaker 2: ruling the empire as regent, she is completely succumbing to possession.
Speaker 1: She loses control.
Speaker 2: The voices in her head are too strong, and she
Speaker 2: is slowly, terrifyingly taken over by the malicious ancient personality
Speaker 2: of her grandfather, the dead baron Vladimir Harkkanon.
Speaker 1: It is a brilliant literal exploration of generational trauma. The
Speaker 1: next generation is physically haunted by the ghosts of the past.
Speaker 3: A literal manifestation of their sins, the legacy of Paul's
Speaker 3: Holy War, the ecological terraforming of the desert which is
Speaker 3: starting to kill the sandworms and the looming thread of
Speaker 3: human extinction are all crashing down.
Speaker 1: And this brings us to a pitot point that completely
Speaker 1: fractures the timeline. Paul's son, Leto the Second, realizes his
Speaker 1: father was too afraid to do what was necessary to
Speaker 1: save humanity.
Speaker 2: Paul saw the path to salvation, but the personal cost
Speaker 2: was too monstrous, so he chose a lesser evil. Lead
Speaker 2: of the Second decides to take the path. He decides
Speaker 2: to embrace the monster.
Speaker 1: Which propels us thousands of years into the deep future.
Speaker 2: Yes, we are jumping roughly three thousand, five hundred years
Speaker 2: forward into God Emperor of.
Speaker 1: Dune, and this is where things get really weird.
Speaker 2: Lido the Second makes the sacrifice that is arguably the
Speaker 2: most bizarre and striking image in all of science fiction.
Speaker 2: To give himself the time and the absolute power needed
Speaker 2: to steer humanity away from extinction, he allows his human
Speaker 2: body to be engulfed by sandtrout.
Speaker 1: We have to explain the biology here because it's so central.
Speaker 1: The sand trot are the larval stage of the giant sandworms.
Speaker 1: There are these leathery water encapsulating creatures that swarm over
Speaker 1: the desert.
Speaker 2: Correct Lito covers his body in them. They bond with
Speaker 2: his skin, absorbing his water, and over the centuries they
Speaker 2: completely mutate his physical form.
Speaker 1: He loses his humanity.
Speaker 2: Literally, he transforms into a massive, multi ton hybrid human sandworm.
Speaker 2: Only his human face and small, useless arms remain at
Speaker 2: one end of this massive segmented body.
Speaker 1: It's a protesque it is.
Speaker 2: He becomes nearly immortal, practically invulnerable, and he rules the
Speaker 2: known universe as a tyrannical absolute god emperor for thirty
Speaker 2: five centuries.
Speaker 1: It is such an audacious leap for a writer to
Speaker 1: make the handsome young prince from book one's blood line
Speaker 1: has become a literal immortal worm dictator, and Lito's rule
Speaker 1: is the implementation of what he calls the Golden Path.
Speaker 2: The Golden Path is a long, highly oppressive, multimillennial plan
Speaker 2: designed to force humanity onto a trajectory of survival. Leto
Speaker 2: realizes that humanity has become dangerously complacent.
Speaker 1: Because they have it too easy.
Speaker 2: Exactly, they are entirely dependent on the spice. They are lazy,
Speaker 2: and they are clustered together under a single stagnant empire.
Speaker 2: If any external threat ever arrived, perhaps the remnants of
Speaker 2: the old thinking machines from the edge of the universe.
Speaker 2: Humanity would be wiped out in a single.
Speaker 1: Strike, so his solution is to become the ultimate pressure valve.
Speaker 1: He enforces complete and utter peace stagnation with a capital
Speaker 1: s yes. He controls one percent of the spice in
Speaker 1: the universe because he's the only sandworm left. The rest
Speaker 1: of Iracus has been terraformed into a green paradise, killing
Speaker 1: the original worms. He restricts all space travel, He suppresses
Speaker 1: all rebellion.
Speaker 2: He becomes a monster.
Speaker 1: He makes the universe so incredibly stifling and oppressive for
Speaker 1: thousands of years that he forces a psychological yearning for
Speaker 1: freedom to build up within the genetic code of.
Speaker 2: The human race and the novel itself. God Emperor of
Speaker 2: Doune is structurally very different from anything that came before it.
Speaker 2: It is highly philosophical, deeply meditative, and composed mostly of dialogue,
Speaker 2: not a lot of action, very little. We spend the
Speaker 2: book inside Ledo's internal monologue, listening to his deep philosophical
Speaker 2: conversations with an endless series of cloned Duncan Idaho gulas
Speaker 2: provided by the Cailasu, and watching him observe the forces
Speaker 2: he is actively cultivating to eventually overthrow him.
Speaker 1: I have to ask this, and it's a question that
Speaker 1: I think every reader wrestles with. I want your take
Speaker 1: on this isleto the Second, the ultimate villain.
Speaker 2: It's the big question.
Speaker 1: Because from the perspective of the people living under him,
Speaker 1: he is a brutal, oppressive alien tyrant who murders millions
Speaker 1: for three and a half millennia. Or is he the
Speaker 1: ultimate savior because he is literally the only being in
Speaker 1: the universe with the prescience to see human extinction and
Speaker 1: the horrific willpower necessary to prevent it.
Speaker 2: That is the central ethical dilemma of the entire saga.
Speaker 2: Herbert presents a scenario where the only cure for humanity's
Speaker 2: fatal flaw is a medicine so bitter it nearly kills
Speaker 2: the patient. Later, the Second sacrifices his own humanity to
Speaker 2: become a predator. He wants to teach humanity a lesson
Speaker 2: about the dangers of absolute power and the dangers of
Speaker 2: charismatic leaders that they will remember in their bones for
Speaker 2: the rest of time. He makes himself the ultimate villain
Speaker 2: so that humanity will never again trust a single ruler.
Speaker 1: And it works his planned death triggers the exact explosion
Speaker 1: he was engineering. After the fall of the God Emperor,
Speaker 1: we jump forward another fifteen hundred years into the next
Speaker 1: era heretics of Doune in chapter House Done. This is
Speaker 1: defined by a massive historical event called the scattering.
Speaker 2: With the Tyrant dead and the oppressive lid finally taken
Speaker 2: off the universe, humanity erupts outward. They flee far beyond
Speaker 2: the borders of the old Imperium, scattering into the uncharted
Speaker 2: universe in their trillions.
Speaker 1: Just exploding out into the void.
Speaker 2: Yes, this guarantees that humanity is now too spread out,
Speaker 2: too diverse, and too numerous to ever be entirely wiped
Speaker 2: out by a single threat. The Golden Path is essentially realized.
Speaker 2: Humanity is saved from extinction by being scattered to the wind,
Speaker 2: but the.
Speaker 1: Old universe they left behind is in absolute chaos. We
Speaker 1: are back to focusing on the Beni guessrit. They are
Speaker 1: struggling to survive without the God Emperor's enforced peace, and
Speaker 1: they are suddenly faced with a terrifying new threat, the
Speaker 1: Honored Matres.
Speaker 2: The Honored Matras are a violent, aggressive matriarchal order returning
Speaker 2: from the scattering. They are essentially a dark mirror of
Speaker 2: the benet Guessert.
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Where the bene Gesrit use subtle political manipulation and relie
Speaker 2: just engineering, the Honored Matras use pure adrenaline, extreme violence,
Speaker 2: and absolute sexual control to conquer and subjugate the Old worlds.
Speaker 1: They are brutal.
Speaker 2: They're running from something terrifying out in the deep universe,
Speaker 2: and they are taking over the old Imperium as a stronghold.
Speaker 1: And amidst all this violent political upheaval, the ecology of
Speaker 1: the universe is turned completely upside down again. During Liedo's reign,
Speaker 1: Aracus was a green paradise. When he died, the sand
Speaker 1: trout that made up his body return to the sand,
Speaker 1: slowly turning the planet back into a desert, bringing the
Speaker 1: sandworms back.
Speaker 2: Nature, healing itself.
Speaker 1: But then the Honored Matres arrive and literally burn a
Speaker 1: Racus to ash. The planet is destroyed entirely.
Speaker 2: It is a devastating moment to survive. The benagest Rate
Speaker 2: managed to capture a single sandworm. They take it to
Speaker 2: their lush, green secret home world of Chapter.
Speaker 1: House, and here is the incredible tragic irony of the
Speaker 1: whole series. To keep that single worm alive and to
Speaker 1: maintain a source of the spice momage that their powers
Speaker 1: rely on, the bene guess rate have to actively destroy
Speaker 1: their own planet's ecosystem.
Speaker 2: They have to ruin their own home.
Speaker 1: They have to intentionally cause a global ecological collapse, turning
Speaker 1: the lush forests of Chapter House into a new, desolate
Speaker 1: desert world, just to support the worm.
Speaker 2: It brings the ecological themes of the saga completely full circle.
Speaker 2: We see the sheer, terrifying fragility of planetary ecosystems and
Speaker 2: the desperate, destructive length humanity will go to in order
Speaker 2: to maintain access to the resources they are addicted to.
Speaker 2: It's so relevant, and it's right here in the middle
Speaker 2: of this massive galaxy spanning conflict on Chapter House, with
Speaker 2: a group of refugees fleeing out into the unknown that
Speaker 2: Frank Herbert ended his story. He died before he could
Speaker 2: write the planned seventh book, which.
Speaker 1: Left the entire fifteen thousand year Saga on one of
Speaker 1: the most agonizing cliffhangers in literary history. For twenty years,
Speaker 1: fans debated and wondered how it was all supposed to resolve.
Speaker 1: What were the honored Major's rights, unting from did the
Speaker 1: Golden Path actually work? Which brings us to the final resolution.
Speaker 2: Drawing on Frank Herbert's extensive notes that were found years later,
Speaker 2: Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson wrote the concluding arc
Speaker 2: Hunters of Doune and Sandworms of Dune.
Speaker 1: These books pick up the thread immediately after the events
Speaker 1: of Chapter House. They follow a specific group of characters
Speaker 1: fleeing aboard a massive, untraceable vessel called a no ship.
Speaker 2: We should define a no ship. It is a vessel
Speaker 2: equipped with technology that makes it entirely invisible to prescient vision.
Speaker 1: They can't be seen in the future.
Speaker 2: Even a Quissot's hatteract cannot see a no Ship in
Speaker 2: their visions of the future. It is the ultimate blind spot,
Speaker 2: representing humanity finally escaping the deterministic trap of praciants.
Speaker 1: Aboard this ship you have key Benagresswort figures, a whole
Speaker 1: host of refugees, and importantly, the Tallilaczoo Master, who is
Speaker 1: using his axe loottl tanks to grow clone goulas of
Speaker 1: historical figures from the very beginning of the saga, bringing
Speaker 1: everyone back. They are growing a new Pola Trdse, a
Speaker 1: new lead Jessica, a new Lido the Second. They are
Speaker 1: preparing for a final confrontation.
Speaker 2: Because the terrifying external threat that drove the honored Matres
Speaker 2: back into the Old Empire has finally revealed itself. The
Speaker 2: No Ship is being hunted by an incredibly advanced cold
Speaker 2: calculating intelligence.
Speaker 1: Ultimate Boogeyman, the thinking machines, Omnious and Erasmus.
Speaker 2: They're back.
Speaker 1: They weren't completely destroyed ten thousand years ago at the
Speaker 1: Battle of kre In. They fled into the deep corners
Speaker 1: of the universe, and for millennia they have been rebuilding, upgrading,
Speaker 1: and preparing to return and finish the extermination of the
Speaker 1: human race.
Speaker 2: Without spoiling the granular details of the final battle, these
Speaker 2: concluding books serve to tie the entire fifteen thousand year
Speaker 2: loop together. They resolve the ultimate fate of the Sandworms,
Speaker 2: They prove the necessity of Litto the Second's golden path,
Speaker 2: and they force a final reckoning between humanity and the
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence they banished millennia ago.
Speaker 1: It's a huge payoff.
Speaker 2: It forces us to look back at the entire massive
Speaker 2: sweep of the timeline and synthesize what this story or
Speaker 2: is actually trying to tell us.
Speaker 1: When you look at all twenty three books, the sheer
Speaker 1: scale of the themes is breathtaking. We've touched on them, but
Speaker 1: it's worth summarizing. The saga is deeply fundamentally concerned with
Speaker 1: ecological interdependence. Yes, it shows how utterly fragile a planetary
Speaker 1: ecosystem is and how inextricably tied human survival is to
Speaker 1: those delicate balances.
Speaker 2: It is also a profound cynical study of religion as
Speaker 2: an engineered tool of mass control. It constantly questions the
Speaker 2: tension between free will and the deterministic trap of knowing
Speaker 2: the future. If you can see the future, are you
Speaker 2: creating it? Or are you just a prisoner of it?
Speaker 1: And for me, it's the massive exploration of the ethical
Speaker 1: limits of human enhancement. We see humanity pushing the absolute
Speaker 1: boundaries of what a physical body and mind can do,
Speaker 1: the spice, the millennial on breeding programs, the goal of
Speaker 1: cloning technology.
Speaker 2: Pushing the limits.
Speaker 1: What stands out to me most is how incredibly interconnected
Speaker 1: cause and effect are over deep time. The fact that
Speaker 1: a violent traumatic war agains thinking machines ten thousand years
Speaker 1: in the past, dictates the existence of human computers and
Speaker 1: secret genetic breeding programs thousands of years in the far future.
Speaker 2: It reveals a single, continuous, brilliant argument. It suggests that
Speaker 2: while the names of the planets change and the empires
Speaker 2: rise and fall, the fundamental human struggles with power, with technology,
Speaker 2: and with her environment remain exactly the same at all echoes.
Speaker 2: The shadow of the Butlerrian jihad hangs over the entire timeline,
Speaker 2: constantly asking the reader a quiet question. Did humanity truly
Speaker 2: escape the traps of its own creations? Or did we
Speaker 2: merely replace mechanical machines with biological ones. Are the mentats
Speaker 2: and the bene adjusterate any more free than the robots
Speaker 2: they replaced?
Speaker 1: It is a stunning achievement in world building. Thank you
Speaker 1: for coming with us on this massive, fifteen thousand year
Speaker 1: journey through the timeline. Whether you choose to tackle this
Speaker 1: universe in publication order to preserve the awe and mystery,
Speaker 1: or chronological order to experience the grand historical sweep of
Speaker 1: cause and effect. This saga rule wards careful.
Speaker 2: Reading, it rewards rereading, and it certainly rewards deep debate.
Speaker 1: The timeline is long. The jargon is heavy, but the
Speaker 1: questions it raises about how societies endure, how they stagnate
Speaker 1: under pressure, and how they fail to adapt are urgently contemporary, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and that brings us to our final thought for today.
Speaker 1: In this universe, humanity realized that depending on thinking machines
Speaker 1: was an existential threat to their spirit. It led to
Speaker 1: a brutal band that forced human beings to look inward,
Speaker 1: to push their own minds and bodies to extraordinary, almost
Speaker 1: superhuman limits, out of sheer desperate necessity. Right, looking at
Speaker 1: our own world today, with our phones and our algorithms,
Speaker 1: doing our math, mapping our roots and answering our coins,
Speaker 1: are we moving in the exact opposite direction?
Speaker 2: It's a great question.
Speaker 1: And if we are, what incredible hidden human potential are
Speaker 1: we failing to unlock within ourselves simply because we are
Speaker 1: outsourcing all of our thinking to the machine. Think about
Speaker 1: that until next time, Keep diving deep.