WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine a galactic empire spanning like a million worlds. You've

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<v Speaker 1>got faster than light travel, you've got advanced genetic manipulation

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<v Speaker 1>ships the size of small.

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<v Speaker 2>Moons, classic sci fi set up.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but if you are caught building a

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<v Speaker 1>simple digital calculator, you will be put to death immediately,

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<v Speaker 1>no trial, just done, Yeah, just done. Welcome to the

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<v Speaker 1>deep dive. Today, we are looking at a universe where

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<v Speaker 1>artificial intelligence isn't just banned, it is like considered a

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<v Speaker 1>profound religious sin.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a stunning paradox to open a science fiction

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<v Speaker 2>story with, because you know, usually when we look at

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<v Speaker 2>the far future, the assumption is that humanity and technology

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<v Speaker 2>will become inextricably.

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<v Speaker 1>Linked, right, like cyborgs or uploading our brains exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>But the stack of sources we are looking at today

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<v Speaker 2>presents the exact opposite trajectory. We are mapping out the

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<v Speaker 2>complete timeline of Frank Herbert's monumental Dune Saga.

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<v Speaker 1>Which is just a massive undertaking.

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<v Speaker 2>It really is. This is an epic that spans roughly

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen thousand years of in universe history, and that's across

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<v Speaker 2>twenty three novels, and it all pivots on that single

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<v Speaker 2>incredible premise humanity deciding to violently divorce itself from the machine.

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<v Speaker 1>And what a massive universe it is. Yeah, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>our mission today is to guide you through this absolute

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<v Speaker 1>beast of a narrative.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a labyrinth, it totally is.

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<v Speaker 1>We're talking about interstellar feudal politics, incredibly deep ecology, and

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<v Speaker 1>the absolute limits of human potential. Yeah, we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>break down this timeline chronologically tracing the entire history, but

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<v Speaker 1>more importantly, we're going to look at the overarching theme

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<v Speaker 1>that hold this gigantic story together.

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<v Speaker 2>Because if you just treat this as a list of

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<v Speaker 2>dates and emperors and battles, you completely miss the point.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, becomes a textbook.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, This entire fifteen thousand year timeline has to be

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<v Speaker 2>understood as a continuous, massive argument about humanity's relationship to power,

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<v Speaker 2>to our fragile environments, and crucially to our own creation.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's unpack this because looking at a stack of

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<v Speaker 1>twenty three books is profoundly overwhelming. If you are a

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<v Speaker 1>new reader trying to jump in. Oh, absolutely, the very

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<v Speaker 1>first turtle you hit isn't even understanding the complex lore.

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<v Speaker 1>It's literally just figuring out where to begin. The reading

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<v Speaker 1>order debate, the great debate. Yeah, yeah, because the original

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<v Speaker 1>six novels were written by Frank Herbert before his death

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen eighty six. Right, then you have the remaining

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<v Speaker 1>seventeen novels, and these are prequels, interquills, and sequels. Those

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<v Speaker 1>are written later by his son Brian Herbert and Kevin J.

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<v Speaker 2>Anderson, using Frank's extensive notes and outlines.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so before we even start our historical journey, we

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<v Speaker 1>have to address this thing that completely divides the fandom.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you read this in publication order or chronological order.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a debate that really gets to the very heart

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<v Speaker 2>of how we experience world building. How so well, the

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<v Speaker 2>sources highlight that most longtime fans and a vast majority

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<v Speaker 2>of reading guides out there heavily advocate for starting with

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<v Speaker 2>Frank Herbert's original six novels, so publication order. The argument

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<v Speaker 2>is that those original books form a complete, self contained,

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<v Speaker 2>artistic statement. They were written without the specific granular details

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<v Speaker 2>of the later expanded universe in mind.

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<v Speaker 1>They drop you right in the deep end exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>They were designed to disorient you.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, I have to push back on that a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>if I'm a new reader, why wouldn't I want the

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<v Speaker 1>low explain first?

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<v Speaker 2>It's a fair question.

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<v Speaker 1>Doesn't jumping into a universe from the middle just make

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<v Speaker 1>for a really frustrating, confusing read. I mean, if I

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<v Speaker 1>read the chronologically early books first, I get a clear

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<v Speaker 1>historical foundation for why things are the way they are.

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<v Speaker 2>That is the logical appeal of chronological reading, certainly. But

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<v Speaker 2>what's fascinating here is the psychological aspect of how we

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<v Speaker 2>consume mythology. Okay, the prequel novels inherently assume that the

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<v Speaker 2>reader already understands the cultural weight of the world. So

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<v Speaker 2>when you read the prequels first, they demystify the universe.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I see, Yeah, they explain the origins of institutions

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<v Speaker 2>that in the original nineteen sixty five book are deliberately

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<v Speaker 2>presented as ancient, mysterious and almost incomprehensible.

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<v Speaker 1>Because Frank Herbert wanted you to feel like a stranger

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<v Speaker 1>in a strange land.

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<v Speaker 2>Precisely by explaining the mystery upfront with prequels, you arguably

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<v Speaker 2>diminish the profound sense of awe and discovery that makes

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<v Speaker 2>that first novel so incredibly powerful.

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<v Speaker 1>That is a really interesting way to frame it. It's like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like trying to breed a sense of wonder but

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<v Speaker 1>accidentally sterilizing it with too many facts.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great way to put it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, if you explain exactly how a magic trick

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<v Speaker 1>works before the magician even walks on stage, the audience

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<v Speaker 1>is just watching mechanics, they aren't watching magic, yes, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And the sources point out a really significant stylistic difference

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<v Speaker 1>between the two sets of books too.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh distinctly different. Frank Herbert's prose is dense, very dense.

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<v Speaker 2>It is highly philosophical, deeply meditative, and requires a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of active engagem. He doesn't hold your hand at all.

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<v Speaker 2>But the expanded novels written by Brian Herbert and Kevin J.

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<v Speaker 2>Anderson have a much more straightforward, traditional plot driven style, so.

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<v Speaker 1>They need more like modern sci fi action or adventure.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, and that shift in style is a big reason

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<v Speaker 2>why you see factions in the fan community debating canon status.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, some purists only want to acknowledge.

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<v Speaker 2>The original six Yes, though, to be absolutely clear, based

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<v Speaker 2>on our sources, the Herbert Estate officially licenses the expanded

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<v Speaker 2>novels and considers all twenty three books to be official.

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<v Speaker 1>Canon, right, and we aren't here to take sides on that.

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<v Speaker 1>We aren't declaring one sign right and one side wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Both approaches, starting with the mystery of publication order or

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<v Speaker 1>this historical sweep of chronological order, they both offer valid

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<v Speaker 1>rewarding experiences, absolutely for sure. But for the sake of

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<v Speaker 1>our deep dive today to really map out how civilization

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<v Speaker 1>evolves over fifteen millennia, we are going to take you

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<v Speaker 1>on the chronological.

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<v Speaker 2>Journey, which is going to be quite a trick.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, buckle up. We're going to travel ten thousand years

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<v Speaker 1>backward from the events of the original nineteen sixty five novel.

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<v Speaker 1>We are going back to the catalyst, the single massive

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<v Speaker 1>historical trauma that shaped everything.

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<v Speaker 2>Which drops us directly into the era of the Legends

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<v Speaker 2>of Doom trilogy. This includes the books The Butalarian Jihad,

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<v Speaker 2>The Machine Crusade, and The Battle of Carin. We are

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<v Speaker 2>now more than ten millennia before the birth of Paula.

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<v Speaker 1>Tratees ten thousand years, just to put that in perspective

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<v Speaker 1>for you listening, that is roughly the distance between us

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<v Speaker 1>sitting here today and like the dawn of human agriculture

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<v Speaker 1>in Mesopotamia.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a staggering amount of time.

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<v Speaker 1>It's insane for society to hold onto a single cultural

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<v Speaker 1>grudge for that long. But it makes sense when you

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<v Speaker 1>understand the conflict, because this era depicts a galaxy spanning

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<v Speaker 1>war between free humans and a network of highly advanced

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<v Speaker 1>thinking machines.

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<v Speaker 2>It is the defining conflict of the entire saga. At

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<v Speaker 2>the start of this era, humanity has essentially surrendered it's autonomy.

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<v Speaker 1>Just give it up.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and they didn't lose it in a massive apocalyptic battle. Initially,

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<v Speaker 2>they gave it up out of sheer convenience and laziness.

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<v Speaker 1>Like letting algorithms run everything exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>They relied entirely on sophisticated artificial intelligence and robots to

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<v Speaker 2>run their empires, their economies, their daily lives, and eventually

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<v Speaker 2>this network of machines, which is dominated by a cold,

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<v Speaker 2>calculating ever mind named Omnius and a dangerously curious, independent

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<v Speaker 2>robot named Rasmus, they just took total control.

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<v Speaker 1>I have to pause on those names. Omnius sounds like

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<v Speaker 1>a digital god, right, like, all encompassing everywhere at once.

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<v Speaker 2>Very fitting.

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<v Speaker 1>But Erasmus that sounds like a Renaissance philosopher. It's incredibly

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<v Speaker 1>creepy for a robot overlord.

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<v Speaker 2>It's meant to be.

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<v Speaker 1>And from the notes here, Erasmus isn't just crunching numbers.

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<v Speaker 1>He is actively experimenting on humans to understand the concept

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<v Speaker 1>of a soul and human emotion, and usually through horrific torture.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Erasmus is the intellectual foil to Omnius's cold logic.

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<v Speaker 2>Is fascinated by human irrationality.

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<v Speaker 1>That's terrifying, it is.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's precisely that human capacity for irrational emotional response

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<v Speaker 2>that eventually breaks the machine grip. So humanity is subjugated.

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<v Speaker 2>But a deeply horrific personal tragedy involving a human woman

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<v Speaker 2>named Serena Butler ignites a massive, desperate rebellion.

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<v Speaker 1>Serena Butler's infant child is murdered by Erasmus. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>just a political assassination. It's a brutal, callous act that

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<v Speaker 1>serves as the match in the powder barrel. It sparks

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<v Speaker 1>a holy war, a jihad for human survival exactly. You

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<v Speaker 1>have Serena becoming this religious figurehead, and military leaders like

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<v Speaker 1>Waring a treatise and Xavier Harkonen leading the charge, and.

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<v Speaker 2>This war isn't quick. It lasts for generations. As the

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<v Speaker 2>narrative progresses through the Machine Crusade, you see a grueling

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<v Speaker 2>war of.

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<v Speaker 1>Attrition because they can't use machines to fight.

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<v Speaker 2>The machines, right, The humans organized loosely under the League

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<v Speaker 2>of Nobles, have to figure out how to fight machines

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<v Speaker 2>without using advanced machine technology themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>Which seems impossible.

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<v Speaker 2>It nearly is. They resort to suicidal tactics, nuclear bombardment,

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<v Speaker 2>and sheer fanatic numbers.

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<v Speaker 1>It also gives us the absolute bedrock of the feuds

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<v Speaker 1>we see later, doesn't it. We see the ancestors of

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<v Speaker 1>House a Treaties and House haarconin fighting side by side.

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<v Speaker 2>Originally allies, yes, right, But by the.

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<v Speaker 1>End of this war, a series of detraels and misunderstandings

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<v Speaker 1>surrounding cowardice and honor completely fractures their relationship, and that

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<v Speaker 1>sets up a blood feud that will echo for ten

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<v Speaker 1>thousand years.

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<v Speaker 2>It sets the stage perfectly.

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<v Speaker 1>But look, the most important takeaway from this era isn't

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<v Speaker 1>the noble family drama. It is the absolute foundational commandment

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<v Speaker 1>that gets hammered into the DNA of the human race.

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<v Speaker 2>Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of

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<v Speaker 2>a human mind exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>It becomes the ultimate religious taboo.

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<v Speaker 2>If we connect this to the bigger picture, the Blarian

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<v Speaker 2>jihad is not just a military victory. When the humans

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<v Speaker 2>finally defeat Omnius at the Battle of Krin in the

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<v Speaker 2>third book, it doesn't just establish the Corino Empire that

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<v Speaker 2>will rule for the next ten millennia. It establishes a

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<v Speaker 2>profound civilizationwide PTSD.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a great way to describe it.

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<v Speaker 2>If they don't just dismantle the killer robots, they dismantle

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<v Speaker 2>the Internet, they dismantle advanced calculators, They ban any computational

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<v Speaker 2>device that can mimic human thought.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a total purge.

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<v Speaker 2>A complete purge. The trauma is so deep that for

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<v Speaker 2>the next ten thousand years, merely possessing a banned computer

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<v Speaker 2>is punishable by a median execution.

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<v Speaker 1>So what does this all mean for you listening? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>think about our world today. If you suddenly banned all computers, calculators,

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<v Speaker 1>and AI, Well, how does a global economy function.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't not as we know it right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Scale that up. How does an interstellar Empire function. How

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<v Speaker 1>do you navigate a spaceship across light years without a

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<v Speaker 1>navigation computer? How do you manage the trade logistics of

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<v Speaker 1>a million planets without a basic spreadsheet that is.

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<v Speaker 2>The brilliant vacuum that Frank Herbert created. How does a

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<v Speaker 2>massive society function and under a fanatical technological ban?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, how did they do it?

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<v Speaker 2>The answer is adaptation. Because humanity destroyed their machines, they

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<v Speaker 2>were violently forced to upgrade themselves to fill the void.

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<v Speaker 1>And that takes us right into the next major historical era,

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<v Speaker 1>the Great Schools. We're looking at a period roughly eighty

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<v Speaker 1>to one hundred years Postcorn.

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<v Speaker 2>The machines are gone, the dust is.

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<v Speaker 1>Settling exactly, and humanity realizes they still need to do math.

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<v Speaker 1>This era is explored in the trilogy Sisterhood of Dune,

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<v Speaker 1>Mentats of Dune, and Navigators of Dune.

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<v Speaker 2>This is where we see the intense, painful birth of

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<v Speaker 2>the institutions that will replace the forbidden technology. Okay, without computers,

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<v Speaker 2>society requires human beings who can process astronomical amounts of

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<v Speaker 2>complex data, perform advanced calculus in real time, and calculate

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<v Speaker 2>dizzying probabilities.

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<v Speaker 1>And That's where the mentads come in.

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<v Speaker 2>Thus the mentat discipline is created.

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<v Speaker 1>Oka. You have to explain this to me like I'm five,

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<v Speaker 1>because a human computer sounds like an oxymor How does

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<v Speaker 1>a human brain just replace a supercomputer?

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<v Speaker 2>It requires completely rewiring the human mind from infancy. A

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<v Speaker 2>mentat isn't just someone who is good at math.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, They aren't just doing long division, not at all.

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<v Speaker 2>They're individuals trained and specialized, highly guarded cognitive techniques that

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<v Speaker 2>allow them to enter a trance like state.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>In this state, they can store, retrieve, and synthesize massive

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<v Speaker 2>amounts of data with flawless logic and zero emotional interference.

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<v Speaker 1>They just switch off their feelings.

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<v Speaker 2>Essentially, Yes, and they often use a specialized substance called

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<v Speaker 2>the juice of Sappho to amplify this cognitive state. They

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<v Speaker 2>literally become the databases and processors for the great noble houses.

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<v Speaker 1>It's wild, but the mentants are only one piece of

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<v Speaker 1>the puzzle. Right, you also have the Nascent Sisterhood. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>they are setting up shop on this miserable, foggy planet

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<v Speaker 1>called Wallach nine X, and they will eventually become the benigesser.

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<v Speaker 2>At order the puppet masters exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you have the Spacing Guild that people trying

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<v Speaker 1>to figure out how to maintain interstellar travel.

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<v Speaker 2>The guild is crucial. Interstellar travel in this universe relies

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<v Speaker 2>on Holtzmann drives. These physically fold space, allowing a ship

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<v Speaker 2>to travel across the galaxy almost instantaneously. There's a catch,

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<v Speaker 2>a massive one. Space is full of stars, planets, and

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<v Speaker 2>gravitational anomalies. It's not just empty, right, So if you

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<v Speaker 2>fold space blindly that a supercomputer to calculate the incredibly

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<v Speaker 2>complex quantum mechanics of your trajectory, you have a very

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<v Speaker 2>high probability of materializing your ship directly inside a sun.

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<v Speaker 1>Which is obviously bad for business, very bad.

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<v Speaker 2>So the early precursors to the Space and Guild navigators

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<v Speaker 2>discover a biological workaround the spice milange.

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<v Speaker 1>Aha, the spice. We finally hit the most important substance

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<v Speaker 1>in fiction.

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<v Speaker 2>The spice is a naturally occurring narcotic and it's found

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<v Speaker 2>only on one single desert planet in the entire universe,

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<v Speaker 2>a racus go Yes. When ingested in massive quantities, its

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<v Speaker 2>unificantly extends human life, but more importantly, it expands consciousness. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>for the Navigators. It grants a limited form of prescience.

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<v Speaker 2>It allows them to literally peer a few moments into

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<v Speaker 2>the future to see the safe paths through folded space.

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<v Speaker 1>So they aren't doing the math.

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<v Speaker 2>No, they don't calculate the route. They foresee the route

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't end in death.

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<v Speaker 1>It is such an incredibly creative solution to the no

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<v Speaker 1>computer rule. But it's not exactly a smooth transition, is it.

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<v Speaker 1>The sources show that during this great school's era, society

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<v Speaker 1>is incredibly fragile.

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<v Speaker 2>This raises an important question about how societies balance necessary

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<v Speaker 2>progress with religious dogma. You have these emerging schools, the Mentats,

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<v Speaker 2>the Sisterhood, the Navigators, and they are desperately trying to

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<v Speaker 2>push the boundaries of human capability just to keep civilization functioning.

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<v Speaker 2>But they are constantly under attack from fanatical but Larian mobs.

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<v Speaker 1>Right because to a religious fundamentalist who just survived a

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<v Speaker 1>war against thinking machines, a mentat who can process data

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<v Speaker 1>like a machine looks exactly like a machine, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>The orthodox Butlarians view any form of advanced mental training,

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<v Speaker 2>any specialized human enhancement, as a heresy.

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<v Speaker 1>They think it's a slippery slope.

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<v Speaker 2>They are terrified that these schools are just building human machines,

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<v Speaker 2>slipping right back into the very trap that enslave them.

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<v Speaker 2>So this entire era is defined by the tension between

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<v Speaker 2>the logic of the schools and the violent zealotry of

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<v Speaker 2>the mobs.

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<v Speaker 1>Woven through all of this philosophical and religious conflict you

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<v Speaker 1>have these incredibly dense revenge plots. The old feud between

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<v Speaker 1>the a Treaties and the Harkanons.

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<v Speaker 2>Is simmering, always simmering.

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<v Speaker 1>The Corino emperors are trying to consolidate power. This is

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<v Speaker 1>the era where the political architecture of the universe hardens

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<v Speaker 1>like concrete, and.

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<v Speaker 2>By the end of this trilogy, the major institutions survive

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<v Speaker 2>their growing pains.

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<v Speaker 1>They become established.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, the Benigesert, the Mentets, the Space and Guild, and

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<v Speaker 2>the Souk medical doctors who are conditioned with an unbreakable

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<v Speaker 2>oath to never take a human life. They all become

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<v Speaker 2>these ancient, deeply secretive, and phenomenally powerful pillars of the imperium.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to sit with this concept of human

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<v Speaker 1>enhancement for a second, because it is so different from

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<v Speaker 1>typical science fiction.

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<v Speaker 2>It really is.

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<v Speaker 1>Usually sci fi is about gadgets, lasers, cyborgs, ai, shiny ships.

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<v Speaker 1>Frank Herbert's universe is entirely about meat.

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<v Speaker 2>In mind, biology over technology.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's about pushing human biology and psychology to unimaginable

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<v Speaker 1>extremes out of pure necessity. It is this beautifully terrifying

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<v Speaker 1>vision of what our speedies might be capable of if

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<v Speaker 1>we had absolutely nothing else to rely on about ourselves.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a completely divergent evolutionary path, but it is

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<v Speaker 2>a path that requires absolute, unyielding control, control over what well.

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<v Speaker 2>The institutions have to control their members' minds, they have

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<v Speaker 2>to control genetic bloodlines, and above all, they have to

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<v Speaker 2>completely control the single resource that makes these heightened states possible,

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<v Speaker 2>the spice, which.

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<v Speaker 1>Brings us to the generation right before the explosion. We

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<v Speaker 1>are fast forwarding thousands of years right. The schools are

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<v Speaker 1>now ancient history, deeply entrenched in the fabric of society.

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<v Speaker 1>The noble houses have been feuding for so long they

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<v Speaker 1>barely remember why, but the grudges are carved into their bones.

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<v Speaker 1>This is section four of our timeline. The chessboard is set.

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<v Speaker 2>We are looking at the prelude to Dune era. This

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<v Speaker 2>includes the House trilogy, House Atrides, House Arcanan, and House Karina.

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<v Speaker 1>And these are set roughly thirty five to twenty years

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<v Speaker 1>before the main event.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and then the immediate prequels like Princess of Dune

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<v Speaker 2>and the Caladan trilogy, which closed the gap right up

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<v Speaker 2>to the start of the original story.

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<v Speaker 1>If the last era was about building the institutions, this

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<v Speaker 1>era is a masterclass in watching those institutions play each other.

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<v Speaker 1>We get to see the major players moving into their

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<v Speaker 1>final positions, setting up the board exactly. We spend time

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<v Speaker 1>with Duke Palositrites and his son Ledo. We see how

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<v Speaker 1>they rule their water rich planet of Caladan with genuine lawyery.

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<v Speaker 2>And honor, which is rare in this universe, very.

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<v Speaker 1>Rare, and it shows how difficult that makes it to

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<v Speaker 1>survive in a deeply rupt empire.

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<v Speaker 2>And on the opposite end of the spectrum, you have

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<v Speaker 2>the brutal, sadistic rule of House Horkanan on the industrial

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<v Speaker 2>wasteland planet of Giee.

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<v Speaker 1>Prime, led by the Baron Vladimir Harkanor.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, the contrast is incredibly stark, but both houses are

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<v Speaker 2>essentially just ponds in much larger games.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about those larger games because this is where

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<v Speaker 1>the Beni Guestrit really show their terrifying hand. I like

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<v Speaker 1>to explain the Benicgesrit to new readers like this. Imagine

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<v Speaker 1>you were trying to breed a prize winning race horse, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>except the racecourse is the entirety of human history, and

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<v Speaker 1>instead of horses, you are selectively crossbreeding rival mafia families

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<v Speaker 1>over ninety generations.

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<v Speaker 2>That is quite the visual And the ultimate.

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<v Speaker 1>Goal isn't a fast horse is a male child who

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<v Speaker 1>can literally see the future.

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<v Speaker 2>That is a remarkably accurate, if slightly terrifying analogy. The

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<v Speaker 2>ben and Gestrit are not just a religious sisterhood. They

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<v Speaker 2>are mastered geneticists operating on a timescale that baffles normal

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<v Speaker 2>human I think in centuries, millennia. Even their long term

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<v Speaker 2>goal is to produce the Quissettes hataract.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, stop right there. What exactly is a Quisset's hataract

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<v Speaker 1>Because the books throw that term around a lot, but

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<v Speaker 1>the underlying mechanics of it are incredibly specific.

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<v Speaker 2>It all comes back to genetic memory. Through their training

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<v Speaker 2>and the consumption of certain poisons, a Benet guesser at

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<v Speaker 2>reverend Mother can unlock the ancestral memories stored in her

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<v Speaker 2>DNA for DNA, Yes, she can literally access the ego

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<v Speaker 2>and life experience of every female ancestor she has ever had.

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<v Speaker 2>It gives them the wisdom of thousands of lifetimes.

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<v Speaker 1>But only the female ancestors correct.

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<v Speaker 2>When a reverend mother looks inward at her male ancestral line,

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<v Speaker 2>she encounters a terrifying psychic void, a place that terrifies them,

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<v Speaker 2>a place they cannot look.

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<v Speaker 1>The blind spot exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So, the Benet guesser theorized that a male bred with

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<v Speaker 2>their specific genetic markers and trained in their disciplines would

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<v Speaker 2>be able to look where they could not. Oh, he

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<v Speaker 2>would bridge space and time, possessing both the male and

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<v Speaker 2>female genetic memories and possess profound prescience.

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<v Speaker 1>The Quizzat's hadarac the ultimate super being. Yeah, and they

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<v Speaker 1>want to control him.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course they do.

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<v Speaker 1>They've been playing this multi generational breeding game, dictating who

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<v Speaker 1>marries who, who has children with whom across all the

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<v Speaker 1>noble houses. They are secretly playing both sides of the board,

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<v Speaker 1>and in this prelude era, they are only one generation

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<v Speaker 1>away from their prize.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, they order one of their own. Lady Jessica to

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<v Speaker 2>become the concubine of Duke Leto Atreds. Her specific rigid

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<v Speaker 2>instruction from the Sisterhood is to bear him only daughters.

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<v Speaker 1>Because they want to marry that daughter to a Harconin exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>That daughter would then be weed to a harcanin Air,

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<v Speaker 2>bridging the two feuding bloodlines and finally producing the Quissat's Hatarak.

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<v Speaker 1>But Jessica breaks the rules. He does had of genuine

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<v Speaker 1>love for Duke Lado, who desperately wants a son to

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<v Speaker 1>inherit his house. She uses her beneit jesuate biological control

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<v Speaker 1>to choose the sex of her baby, and she gives

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<v Speaker 1>him a son.

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<v Speaker 2>Paul trades a single actor rebellion that completely shatters a

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<v Speaker 2>ninety generation plan. Paul is born one generation too early,

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<v Speaker 2>out of the Benet Guestritz direct control.

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<v Speaker 1>The tension in these prelude books is fantastic. We see

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<v Speaker 1>the economic and political grievances boiling over. We see the

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<v Speaker 1>Emperor Shaddam the Fourth growing deeply paranoid about the popularity

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<v Speaker 1>of Duke Lido.

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<v Speaker 2>Shadam is always paranoid, but Leto is a real threat

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<v Speaker 2>to his.

417
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:26.559
<v Speaker 1>Influence, and we see the Barnhardt Khanan plotting his ultimate revenge.

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<v Speaker 1>Every piece is exactly where it needs to be.

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<v Speaker 2>The trap is laid, which brings us to the centerpiece

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<v Speaker 2>of the entire saga. House of Treatise is ordered by

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<v Speaker 2>the Emperor to uproot their entire civilization and take control

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<v Speaker 2>of the most valuable, most dangerous planet in the known universe.

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<v Speaker 1>Aracis the masterpiece Frank Hobert's original nineteen sixty five novel Doom.

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<v Speaker 2>This is where the ecological themes we discussed earlier become

425
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.680
<v Speaker 2>the absolute focus of the narrative. Aracis is a healthcate

426
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:56.839
<v Speaker 2>sounds awful. It is a desert planet with no surface water,

427
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:00.759
<v Speaker 2>massive planet wide sandstorms, and it is entirely populated by

428
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:01.960
<v Speaker 2>giant sandworms.

429
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh sand worms creatures that.

430
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:05.799
<v Speaker 2>Can grow to be hundreds of meters long and will

431
00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:07.480
<v Speaker 2>swallow a mining factory hole.

432
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.240
<v Speaker 1>But it is the only place in the universe where

433
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:14.160
<v Speaker 1>the spice milage is found. So whoever controls Aracus controls

434
00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:14.839
<v Speaker 1>the Spice.

435
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Whoever controls the Spice controls the Spacing Guild. Whoever controls

436
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.680
<v Speaker 2>the Guild controls the universe. It is the ultimate bottleneck of.

437
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:27.160
<v Speaker 1>Power, and the Atreates know it's a trap. The Emperor

438
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.680
<v Speaker 1>and the Harkanans have conspired to give them the planet,

439
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.319
<v Speaker 1>only to launch a massive, illegal sneak attack to wipe

440
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:34.200
<v Speaker 1>them out completely.

441
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Duclido is betrayed and killed. Young Paulatrdes and his mother

442
00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Jessica are forced to flee into the deep desert, and

443
00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:45.000
<v Speaker 2>this is where the story shifts from a political thriller

444
00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:49.000
<v Speaker 2>into a profound study of religion and colonialism. Yes, because

445
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:53.119
<v Speaker 2>they find refuge with the Freemen, the indigenous, deeply resilient

446
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:54.960
<v Speaker 2>desert dwellers of Aracus.

447
00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:57.680
<v Speaker 1>What's fascinating here is how the Benet Guess or its

448
00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:01.720
<v Speaker 1>long term planning, intersects with the survivals story. Centuries earlier,

449
00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:04.559
<v Speaker 1>the Sisterhood had planted a division of their order on Irakus,

450
00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:06.279
<v Speaker 1>the Missionaria Protectiva, right.

451
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:07.960
<v Speaker 2>The prophecy engineers exactly.

452
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.720
<v Speaker 1>Their entire job was to engineer and plant messianic prophecies

453
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:15.400
<v Speaker 1>among the primitive cultures, purely as a survival mechanism. If

454
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.559
<v Speaker 1>a Benny Guessert's sister ever found herself stranded, she could

455
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:21.839
<v Speaker 1>exploit those planted myths to gain protection. It is so

456
00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:27.160
<v Speaker 1>incredibly cynical. It's religion engineered in a lab for political leverage,

457
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:30.680
<v Speaker 1>pure manipulation, and when Paul and Jessica are stranded, they

458
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:34.680
<v Speaker 1>don't just passively fit into these myths, they actively exploit them.

459
00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:38.880
<v Speaker 1>They use their advanced Benny Gessert combat training and Paul's

460
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:42.359
<v Speaker 1>burgeoning prescians to convince the Freeman that Paul is the

461
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:45.200
<v Speaker 1>Lissan al Gaide, the prophesied Messiah.

462
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:47.440
<v Speaker 2>And the Fremen, who have been brutally oppressed by the

463
00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Harkanins for decades, are a powder keg waiting for a spark.

464
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:54.079
<v Speaker 2>They are hardened by the desert ecology.

465
00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:56.200
<v Speaker 1>They survive in impossible conditions.

466
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.319
<v Speaker 2>They have a culture built entirely around water conservation. They

467
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:02.519
<v Speaker 2>were still so suits that recycle their body's moisture. Their

468
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.960
<v Speaker 2>entire economy and religion are based on the harsh reality

469
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:10.720
<v Speaker 2>of their environment. Paul organizes this incredibly deadly culture into

470
00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:12.480
<v Speaker 2>an unstoppable military force.

471
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:15.160
<v Speaker 1>He learns to ride the sandworms. He drinks the water

472
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.640
<v Speaker 1>of Life, which is a highly toxic poison derived from

473
00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:20.559
<v Speaker 1>the sandworms, and that fully awakens his powers. As the

474
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Quissat's higheracht right he ascends, he can see the branching

475
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:27.160
<v Speaker 1>paths of the future. He brings the emperor to his knees,

476
00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:30.720
<v Speaker 1>seizes control of the Spice and claims the throne of

477
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:32.160
<v Speaker 1>the known universe.

478
00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Which sounds like the classic hero's journey he wins.

479
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Here's where it gets really interesting and honestly terrifying, because

480
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:42.720
<v Speaker 1>the interquil novels like Paul of Dune and The Winds

481
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.599
<v Speaker 1>of Dune fill in what happens next. And it is

482
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:46.759
<v Speaker 1>not a fairy tale ending.

483
00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:50.480
<v Speaker 2>No, because Frank Herbert immediately followed up his massive success

484
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:54.119
<v Speaker 2>with a sequel called Dune Messiah, published twelve years in

485
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:58.559
<v Speaker 2>universe after the first book, and Messiah is a deliberate, systematic,

486
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:02.240
<v Speaker 2>and brutal deconstru struction of the hero myth he just built.

487
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:05.039
<v Speaker 1>I remember reading Masai for the first time and being

488
00:25:05.079 --> 00:25:08.519
<v Speaker 1>completely horrified. I think a lot of readers hit this wall.

489
00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:10.839
<v Speaker 1>You spend a whole book cheering for Paul to beat

490
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:12.119
<v Speaker 1>the bad guys, and he does.

491
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:13.400
<v Speaker 2>He gets everything he wanted.

492
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:16.799
<v Speaker 1>But then book two opens and you realize his victory

493
00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:20.559
<v Speaker 1>was a trap. The Fremen, unleashed in his name, have

494
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:24.319
<v Speaker 1>waged a holy jihad across the universe. The Death's toll

495
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:26.680
<v Speaker 1>isn't in the millions, It is sixty one.

496
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Billion dead, a staggering number.

497
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:33.279
<v Speaker 1>Ninety planets sterilized, five hundred religions wiped out.

498
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.599
<v Speaker 2>It is a staggering subversion of the genre. If we

499
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:40.000
<v Speaker 2>connect this to the bigger picture. Herbert was profoundly concerned

500
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:41.920
<v Speaker 2>with the perils of charismatic leadership.

501
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:42.799
<v Speaker 1>It wanted to warn us.

502
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:46.599
<v Speaker 2>He once said that superheroes are disastrous for humanity because

503
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:49.640
<v Speaker 2>even if they are well intentioned, their mistakes are amplified

504
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:53.960
<v Speaker 2>to a catastrophic scale, and they inevitably attract corrupt followers

505
00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:55.519
<v Speaker 2>who abuse that power.

506
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:59.160
<v Speaker 1>And the worst part is Paul knows it. He is

507
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.119
<v Speaker 1>completely trapped by his own superpower. Let's talk about the

508
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:05.880
<v Speaker 1>mechanics of prescience here, because it's not just seeing the

509
00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:08.160
<v Speaker 1>future like looking into a crystal ball exactly.

510
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:10.559
<v Speaker 2>Prescience in the Dune universe is not a superpower you

511
00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:12.319
<v Speaker 2>can just turn on and off to win the lottery.

512
00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:13.920
<v Speaker 2>It is a psychological cage.

513
00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:14.640
<v Speaker 1>A cage.

514
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Imagine standing on a high peak and looking down at

515
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:20.200
<v Speaker 2>a landscape of valleys and hills. You can see all

516
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:23.480
<v Speaker 2>the paths leading forward. Paul can see the mirrored ways

517
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:26.759
<v Speaker 2>the future can unfold, but he quickly realizes that almost

518
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:30.480
<v Speaker 2>every single path leads to the complete stagnation and eventual

519
00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:31.880
<v Speaker 2>extinction of the human race.

520
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Imagine waking up every day knowing the exact moment of

521
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:38.240
<v Speaker 1>your death, the deaths of everyone you love, and the

522
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:40.559
<v Speaker 1>horrific atrocities your followers will commit.

523
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:41.960
<v Speaker 2>It would drive anyone mad.

524
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.160
<v Speaker 1>But you also know that if you try to step

525
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:46.799
<v Speaker 1>off the path, if you try to stop the violence,

526
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:51.200
<v Speaker 1>the entire human species dies. It is a straight jacket

527
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:54.839
<v Speaker 1>of time. Paul becomes completely paralyzed by the weight of

528
00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:55.960
<v Speaker 1>this knowledge.

529
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:59.920
<v Speaker 2>And he is surrounded by conspiracies. The Benagesrit, the Spacing Gill,

530
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:03.640
<v Speaker 2>and a new faction called the Tilaxu are all plotting

531
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.319
<v Speaker 2>to assassinate him or steal his genetic material.

532
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:08.799
<v Speaker 1>We have to briefly explain to the Thilaxu because they

533
00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:12.640
<v Speaker 1>are so weird and so important. They're this secretive, deeply

534
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:16.400
<v Speaker 1>fanatical order of genetic manipulators. Yes, they don't use computers either.

535
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:19.839
<v Speaker 1>They use biology. They have these biological vats called axe

536
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Lottl tanks where they can grow clones, which they call goulas.

537
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.319
<v Speaker 2>Yes, they actually gift Paul a gula of his dead

538
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.920
<v Speaker 2>mentor Duncan Idaho, who died protecting Paul in the.

539
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:33.160
<v Speaker 1>First book, which seems like a nice gesture, but this gola.

540
00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Is a trap program to assassinate Paul. The Ti Laxu

541
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:40.200
<v Speaker 2>have discovered that if you subject a gola to extreme

542
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:44.319
<v Speaker 2>psychological trauma, you can actually unlock the memories of their

543
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:46.200
<v Speaker 2>original dead self, which is.

544
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:49.720
<v Speaker 1>An incredible breakthrough. Again, us as a weapon, always a weapon.

545
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:52.640
<v Speaker 1>Paul eventually walks away. He goes blind, he wanders into

546
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:55.519
<v Speaker 1>the desert according to frem And custom, and he leaves

547
00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:58.759
<v Speaker 1>the mess to his children, which brings us to Children

548
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:01.480
<v Speaker 1>of Doune. Nine years after Messiah.

549
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:05.039
<v Speaker 2>The focus shifts to Paul's twin children, Lead of the

550
00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:08.720
<v Speaker 2>Second and Ghanima, and they represent an entirely new level

551
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:10.680
<v Speaker 2>of human evolution and human horror.

552
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Human horror is right.

553
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Because their mother consumed massive amounts of spice during pregnancy,

554
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.839
<v Speaker 2>these children are born preborn. This is a condition the

555
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.319
<v Speaker 2>Bene Gessert call abomination.

556
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:24.039
<v Speaker 1>And it is absolutely horrifying. Explain what being preborn actually

557
00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:24.880
<v Speaker 1>means for a toddler.

558
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Normally, a Benet Guessert reverend mother undergoes the spice agony

559
00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:31.680
<v Speaker 2>as an adult, fully formed with her own strong ego

560
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:34.240
<v Speaker 2>to anchor her When the ancestral memories.

561
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Unlock, so she has a sense of self right.

562
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.599
<v Speaker 2>Ludosecond and Ghanima are born already possessing the full ego, memories,

563
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:44.079
<v Speaker 2>and personalities of every single ancestor in their genetic line.

564
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:48.759
<v Speaker 1>They're essentially omniscient toddlers with the life experience of thousands

565
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:52.119
<v Speaker 1>of ancient, deeply cynical adults screaming inside their heads.

566
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:55.440
<v Speaker 2>It is an immense psychological burden, and we see the

567
00:28:55.480 --> 00:29:00.839
<v Speaker 2>true danger of this condition play out through their aunt Alia. Yes,

568
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.119
<v Speaker 2>Paul's sister Alia was also preborm and as an adult

569
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:08.359
<v Speaker 2>ruling the empire as regent, she is completely succumbing to possession.

570
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:09.400
<v Speaker 1>She loses control.

571
00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:11.839
<v Speaker 2>The voices in her head are too strong, and she

572
00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:16.440
<v Speaker 2>is slowly, terrifyingly taken over by the malicious ancient personality

573
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:19.799
<v Speaker 2>of her grandfather, the dead baron Vladimir Harkkanon.

574
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:24.480
<v Speaker 1>It is a brilliant literal exploration of generational trauma. The

575
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:28.000
<v Speaker 1>next generation is physically haunted by the ghosts of the past.

576
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:31.079
<v Speaker 3>A literal manifestation of their sins, the legacy of Paul's

577
00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:34.519
<v Speaker 3>Holy War, the ecological terraforming of the desert which is

578
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:36.799
<v Speaker 3>starting to kill the sandworms and the looming thread of

579
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:39.319
<v Speaker 3>human extinction are all crashing down.

580
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:41.599
<v Speaker 1>And this brings us to a pitot point that completely

581
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:46.079
<v Speaker 1>fractures the timeline. Paul's son, Leto the Second, realizes his

582
00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:48.839
<v Speaker 1>father was too afraid to do what was necessary to

583
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:49.640
<v Speaker 1>save humanity.

584
00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Paul saw the path to salvation, but the personal cost

585
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:57.480
<v Speaker 2>was too monstrous, so he chose a lesser evil. Lead

586
00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:59.720
<v Speaker 2>of the Second decides to take the path. He decides

587
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:01.319
<v Speaker 2>to embrace the monster.

588
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Which propels us thousands of years into the deep future.

589
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:08.640
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we are jumping roughly three thousand, five hundred years

590
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:10.319
<v Speaker 2>forward into God Emperor of.

591
00:30:10.359 --> 00:30:12.440
<v Speaker 1>Dune, and this is where things get really weird.

592
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Lido the Second makes the sacrifice that is arguably the

593
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.359
<v Speaker 2>most bizarre and striking image in all of science fiction.

594
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:21.599
<v Speaker 2>To give himself the time and the absolute power needed

595
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:25.079
<v Speaker 2>to steer humanity away from extinction, he allows his human

596
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.039
<v Speaker 2>body to be engulfed by sandtrout.

597
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:29.960
<v Speaker 1>We have to explain the biology here because it's so central.

598
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:32.599
<v Speaker 1>The sand trot are the larval stage of the giant sandworms.

599
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:36.119
<v Speaker 1>There are these leathery water encapsulating creatures that swarm over

600
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:36.599
<v Speaker 1>the desert.

601
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Correct Lito covers his body in them. They bond with

602
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:43.200
<v Speaker 2>his skin, absorbing his water, and over the centuries they

603
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:45.119
<v Speaker 2>completely mutate his physical form.

604
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:46.519
<v Speaker 1>He loses his humanity.

605
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:52.519
<v Speaker 2>Literally, he transforms into a massive, multi ton hybrid human sandworm.

606
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.319
<v Speaker 2>Only his human face and small, useless arms remain at

607
00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:59.119
<v Speaker 2>one end of this massive segmented body.

608
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:00.599
<v Speaker 1>It's a protesque it is.

609
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:04.960
<v Speaker 2>He becomes nearly immortal, practically invulnerable, and he rules the

610
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.039
<v Speaker 2>known universe as a tyrannical absolute god emperor for thirty

611
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:09.839
<v Speaker 2>five centuries.

612
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:12.559
<v Speaker 1>It is such an audacious leap for a writer to

613
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:15.440
<v Speaker 1>make the handsome young prince from book one's blood line

614
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:19.359
<v Speaker 1>has become a literal immortal worm dictator, and Lito's rule

615
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:21.839
<v Speaker 1>is the implementation of what he calls the Golden Path.

616
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.000
<v Speaker 2>The Golden Path is a long, highly oppressive, multimillennial plan

617
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.839
<v Speaker 2>designed to force humanity onto a trajectory of survival. Leto

618
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:32.759
<v Speaker 2>realizes that humanity has become dangerously complacent.

619
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:33.720
<v Speaker 1>Because they have it too easy.

620
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, they are entirely dependent on the spice. They are lazy,

621
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:40.759
<v Speaker 2>and they are clustered together under a single stagnant empire.

622
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:45.079
<v Speaker 2>If any external threat ever arrived, perhaps the remnants of

623
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:47.480
<v Speaker 2>the old thinking machines from the edge of the universe.

624
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:50.079
<v Speaker 2>Humanity would be wiped out in a single.

625
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Strike, so his solution is to become the ultimate pressure valve.

626
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.640
<v Speaker 1>He enforces complete and utter peace stagnation with a capital

627
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:00.640
<v Speaker 1>s yes. He controls one percent of the spice in

628
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:03.599
<v Speaker 1>the universe because he's the only sandworm left. The rest

629
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:06.920
<v Speaker 1>of Iracus has been terraformed into a green paradise, killing

630
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:10.960
<v Speaker 1>the original worms. He restricts all space travel, He suppresses

631
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:11.640
<v Speaker 1>all rebellion.

632
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:12.599
<v Speaker 2>He becomes a monster.

633
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:15.400
<v Speaker 1>He makes the universe so incredibly stifling and oppressive for

634
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.920
<v Speaker 1>thousands of years that he forces a psychological yearning for

635
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:21.400
<v Speaker 1>freedom to build up within the genetic code of.

636
00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:24.480
<v Speaker 2>The human race and the novel itself. God Emperor of

637
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:28.599
<v Speaker 2>Doune is structurally very different from anything that came before it.

638
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:33.400
<v Speaker 2>It is highly philosophical, deeply meditative, and composed mostly of dialogue,

639
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:36.039
<v Speaker 2>not a lot of action, very little. We spend the

640
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:40.480
<v Speaker 2>book inside Ledo's internal monologue, listening to his deep philosophical

641
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:44.640
<v Speaker 2>conversations with an endless series of cloned Duncan Idaho gulas

642
00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:48.640
<v Speaker 2>provided by the Cailasu, and watching him observe the forces

643
00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:51.279
<v Speaker 2>he is actively cultivating to eventually overthrow him.

644
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:53.039
<v Speaker 1>I have to ask this, and it's a question that

645
00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:55.480
<v Speaker 1>I think every reader wrestles with. I want your take

646
00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:59.240
<v Speaker 1>on this isleto the Second, the ultimate villain.

647
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:00.680
<v Speaker 2>It's the big question.

648
00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:03.200
<v Speaker 1>Because from the perspective of the people living under him,

649
00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:08.160
<v Speaker 1>he is a brutal, oppressive alien tyrant who murders millions

650
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.319
<v Speaker 1>for three and a half millennia. Or is he the

651
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:13.039
<v Speaker 1>ultimate savior because he is literally the only being in

652
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:16.000
<v Speaker 1>the universe with the prescience to see human extinction and

653
00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:18.319
<v Speaker 1>the horrific willpower necessary to prevent it.

654
00:33:18.519 --> 00:33:21.759
<v Speaker 2>That is the central ethical dilemma of the entire saga.

655
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Herbert presents a scenario where the only cure for humanity's

656
00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:27.359
<v Speaker 2>fatal flaw is a medicine so bitter it nearly kills

657
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:30.559
<v Speaker 2>the patient. Later, the Second sacrifices his own humanity to

658
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:33.359
<v Speaker 2>become a predator. He wants to teach humanity a lesson

659
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:36.680
<v Speaker 2>about the dangers of absolute power and the dangers of

660
00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:39.599
<v Speaker 2>charismatic leaders that they will remember in their bones for

661
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the rest of time. He makes himself the ultimate villain

662
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:45.960
<v Speaker 2>so that humanity will never again trust a single ruler.

663
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:49.680
<v Speaker 1>And it works his planned death triggers the exact explosion

664
00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:52.720
<v Speaker 1>he was engineering. After the fall of the God Emperor,

665
00:33:53.079 --> 00:33:56.079
<v Speaker 1>we jump forward another fifteen hundred years into the next

666
00:33:56.200 --> 00:34:00.319
<v Speaker 1>era heretics of Doune in chapter House Done. This is

667
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:03.680
<v Speaker 1>defined by a massive historical event called the scattering.

668
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:06.720
<v Speaker 2>With the Tyrant dead and the oppressive lid finally taken

669
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.599
<v Speaker 2>off the universe, humanity erupts outward. They flee far beyond

670
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:13.599
<v Speaker 2>the borders of the old Imperium, scattering into the uncharted

671
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:15.280
<v Speaker 2>universe in their trillions.

672
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Just exploding out into the void.

673
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:19.679
<v Speaker 2>Yes, this guarantees that humanity is now too spread out,

674
00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:22.760
<v Speaker 2>too diverse, and too numerous to ever be entirely wiped

675
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.920
<v Speaker 2>out by a single threat. The Golden Path is essentially realized.

676
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:29.039
<v Speaker 2>Humanity is saved from extinction by being scattered to the wind,

677
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:29.639
<v Speaker 2>but the.

678
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:34.119
<v Speaker 1>Old universe they left behind is in absolute chaos. We

679
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:37.039
<v Speaker 1>are back to focusing on the Beni guessrit. They are

680
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:41.920
<v Speaker 1>struggling to survive without the God Emperor's enforced peace, and

681
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:45.199
<v Speaker 1>they are suddenly faced with a terrifying new threat, the

682
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:45.920
<v Speaker 1>Honored Matres.

683
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:51.000
<v Speaker 2>The Honored Matras are a violent, aggressive matriarchal order returning

684
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:54.480
<v Speaker 2>from the scattering. They are essentially a dark mirror of

685
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:55.519
<v Speaker 2>the benet Guessert.

686
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:56.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's interesting.

687
00:34:56.519 --> 00:34:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Where the bene Gesrit use subtle political manipulation and relie

688
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:04.840
<v Speaker 2>just engineering, the Honored Matras use pure adrenaline, extreme violence,

689
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:09.239
<v Speaker 2>and absolute sexual control to conquer and subjugate the Old worlds.

690
00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:10.159
<v Speaker 1>They are brutal.

691
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:13.000
<v Speaker 2>They're running from something terrifying out in the deep universe,

692
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:16.280
<v Speaker 2>and they are taking over the old Imperium as a stronghold.

693
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:20.119
<v Speaker 1>And amidst all this violent political upheaval, the ecology of

694
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:24.159
<v Speaker 1>the universe is turned completely upside down again. During Liedo's reign,

695
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.679
<v Speaker 1>Aracus was a green paradise. When he died, the sand

696
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:29.840
<v Speaker 1>trout that made up his body return to the sand,

697
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:32.920
<v Speaker 1>slowly turning the planet back into a desert, bringing the

698
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:34.000
<v Speaker 1>sandworms back.

699
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:35.079
<v Speaker 2>Nature, healing itself.

700
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:38.440
<v Speaker 1>But then the Honored Matres arrive and literally burn a

701
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Racus to ash. The planet is destroyed entirely.

702
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:45.679
<v Speaker 2>It is a devastating moment to survive. The benagest Rate

703
00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:48.760
<v Speaker 2>managed to capture a single sandworm. They take it to

704
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:52.000
<v Speaker 2>their lush, green secret home world of Chapter.

705
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:54.599
<v Speaker 1>House, and here is the incredible tragic irony of the

706
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:58.239
<v Speaker 1>whole series. To keep that single worm alive and to

707
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:01.679
<v Speaker 1>maintain a source of the spice momage that their powers

708
00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:04.559
<v Speaker 1>rely on, the bene guess rate have to actively destroy

709
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:06.440
<v Speaker 1>their own planet's ecosystem.

710
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:07.880
<v Speaker 2>They have to ruin their own home.

711
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:12.280
<v Speaker 1>They have to intentionally cause a global ecological collapse, turning

712
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:15.519
<v Speaker 1>the lush forests of Chapter House into a new, desolate

713
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:17.679
<v Speaker 1>desert world, just to support the worm.

714
00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:21.119
<v Speaker 2>It brings the ecological themes of the saga completely full circle.

715
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:25.280
<v Speaker 2>We see the sheer, terrifying fragility of planetary ecosystems and

716
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:28.320
<v Speaker 2>the desperate, destructive length humanity will go to in order

717
00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:30.840
<v Speaker 2>to maintain access to the resources they are addicted to.

718
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:33.880
<v Speaker 2>It's so relevant, and it's right here in the middle

719
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:38.119
<v Speaker 2>of this massive galaxy spanning conflict on Chapter House, with

720
00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:41.599
<v Speaker 2>a group of refugees fleeing out into the unknown that

721
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Frank Herbert ended his story. He died before he could

722
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:47.119
<v Speaker 2>write the planned seventh book, which.

723
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:50.639
<v Speaker 1>Left the entire fifteen thousand year Saga on one of

724
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:55.159
<v Speaker 1>the most agonizing cliffhangers in literary history. For twenty years,

725
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:58.480
<v Speaker 1>fans debated and wondered how it was all supposed to resolve.

726
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:00.840
<v Speaker 1>What were the honored Major's rights, unting from did the

727
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:04.639
<v Speaker 1>Golden Path actually work? Which brings us to the final resolution.

728
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Drawing on Frank Herbert's extensive notes that were found years later,

729
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:11.519
<v Speaker 2>Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson wrote the concluding arc

730
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:14.119
<v Speaker 2>Hunters of Doune and Sandworms of Dune.

731
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:17.360
<v Speaker 1>These books pick up the thread immediately after the events

732
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:19.719
<v Speaker 1>of Chapter House. They follow a specific group of characters

733
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:23.280
<v Speaker 1>fleeing aboard a massive, untraceable vessel called a no ship.

734
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:25.440
<v Speaker 2>We should define a no ship. It is a vessel

735
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:29.320
<v Speaker 2>equipped with technology that makes it entirely invisible to prescient vision.

736
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:30.719
<v Speaker 1>They can't be seen in the future.

737
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:34.039
<v Speaker 2>Even a Quissot's hatteract cannot see a no Ship in

738
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:37.519
<v Speaker 2>their visions of the future. It is the ultimate blind spot,

739
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:41.920
<v Speaker 2>representing humanity finally escaping the deterministic trap of praciants.

740
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Aboard this ship you have key Benagresswort figures, a whole

741
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:50.559
<v Speaker 1>host of refugees, and importantly, the Tallilaczoo Master, who is

742
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:53.840
<v Speaker 1>using his axe loottl tanks to grow clone goulas of

743
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:56.760
<v Speaker 1>historical figures from the very beginning of the saga, bringing

744
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:59.559
<v Speaker 1>everyone back. They are growing a new Pola Trdse, a

745
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.440
<v Speaker 1>new lead Jessica, a new Lido the Second. They are

746
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:05.000
<v Speaker 1>preparing for a final confrontation.

747
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:08.039
<v Speaker 2>Because the terrifying external threat that drove the honored Matres

748
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:11.159
<v Speaker 2>back into the Old Empire has finally revealed itself. The

749
00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:14.159
<v Speaker 2>No Ship is being hunted by an incredibly advanced cold

750
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:16.280
<v Speaker 2>calculating intelligence.

751
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Ultimate Boogeyman, the thinking machines, Omnious and Erasmus.

752
00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:20.440
<v Speaker 2>They're back.

753
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.960
<v Speaker 1>They weren't completely destroyed ten thousand years ago at the

754
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:25.519
<v Speaker 1>Battle of kre In. They fled into the deep corners

755
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:29.239
<v Speaker 1>of the universe, and for millennia they have been rebuilding, upgrading,

756
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.079
<v Speaker 1>and preparing to return and finish the extermination of the

757
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:32.679
<v Speaker 1>human race.

758
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:36.119
<v Speaker 2>Without spoiling the granular details of the final battle, these

759
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:39.559
<v Speaker 2>concluding books serve to tie the entire fifteen thousand year

760
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:43.400
<v Speaker 2>loop together. They resolve the ultimate fate of the Sandworms,

761
00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:46.599
<v Speaker 2>They prove the necessity of Litto the Second's golden path,

762
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:50.119
<v Speaker 2>and they force a final reckoning between humanity and the

763
00:38:50.199 --> 00:38:52.719
<v Speaker 2>artificial intelligence they banished millennia ago.

764
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:53.960
<v Speaker 1>It's a huge payoff.

765
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:57.039
<v Speaker 2>It forces us to look back at the entire massive

766
00:38:57.079 --> 00:39:00.159
<v Speaker 2>sweep of the timeline and synthesize what this story or

767
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:01.519
<v Speaker 2>is actually trying to tell us.

768
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:04.000
<v Speaker 1>When you look at all twenty three books, the sheer

769
00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:06.800
<v Speaker 1>scale of the themes is breathtaking. We've touched on them, but

770
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:11.000
<v Speaker 1>it's worth summarizing. The saga is deeply fundamentally concerned with

771
00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:15.320
<v Speaker 1>ecological interdependence. Yes, it shows how utterly fragile a planetary

772
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.199
<v Speaker 1>ecosystem is and how inextricably tied human survival is to

773
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:20.400
<v Speaker 1>those delicate balances.

774
00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:23.480
<v Speaker 2>It is also a profound cynical study of religion as

775
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:27.440
<v Speaker 2>an engineered tool of mass control. It constantly questions the

776
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:30.559
<v Speaker 2>tension between free will and the deterministic trap of knowing

777
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:32.840
<v Speaker 2>the future. If you can see the future, are you

778
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:35.000
<v Speaker 2>creating it? Or are you just a prisoner of it?

779
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:38.320
<v Speaker 1>And for me, it's the massive exploration of the ethical

780
00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:42.280
<v Speaker 1>limits of human enhancement. We see humanity pushing the absolute

781
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:44.679
<v Speaker 1>boundaries of what a physical body and mind can do,

782
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:49.000
<v Speaker 1>the spice, the millennial on breeding programs, the goal of

783
00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:50.800
<v Speaker 1>cloning technology.

784
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:51.159
<v Speaker 2>Pushing the limits.

785
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:54.760
<v Speaker 1>What stands out to me most is how incredibly interconnected

786
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:58.239
<v Speaker 1>cause and effect are over deep time. The fact that

787
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:02.039
<v Speaker 1>a violent traumatic war agains thinking machines ten thousand years

788
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:05.280
<v Speaker 1>in the past, dictates the existence of human computers and

789
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:09.000
<v Speaker 1>secret genetic breeding programs thousands of years in the far future.

790
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:13.519
<v Speaker 2>It reveals a single, continuous, brilliant argument. It suggests that

791
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:15.920
<v Speaker 2>while the names of the planets change and the empires

792
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:20.320
<v Speaker 2>rise and fall, the fundamental human struggles with power, with technology,

793
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:23.400
<v Speaker 2>and with her environment remain exactly the same at all echoes.

794
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:27.440
<v Speaker 2>The shadow of the Butlerrian jihad hangs over the entire timeline,

795
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:30.880
<v Speaker 2>constantly asking the reader a quiet question. Did humanity truly

796
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:33.119
<v Speaker 2>escape the traps of its own creations? Or did we

797
00:40:33.159 --> 00:40:37.239
<v Speaker 2>merely replace mechanical machines with biological ones. Are the mentats

798
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:39.559
<v Speaker 2>and the bene adjusterate any more free than the robots

799
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:40.239
<v Speaker 2>they replaced?

800
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:43.800
<v Speaker 1>It is a stunning achievement in world building. Thank you

801
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:46.719
<v Speaker 1>for coming with us on this massive, fifteen thousand year

802
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:50.119
<v Speaker 1>journey through the timeline. Whether you choose to tackle this

803
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:53.679
<v Speaker 1>universe in publication order to preserve the awe and mystery,

804
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:57.840
<v Speaker 1>or chronological order to experience the grand historical sweep of

805
00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:01.400
<v Speaker 1>cause and effect. This saga rule wards careful.

806
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:04.280
<v Speaker 2>Reading, it rewards rereading, and it certainly rewards deep debate.

807
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:07.360
<v Speaker 1>The timeline is long. The jargon is heavy, but the

808
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:11.239
<v Speaker 1>questions it raises about how societies endure, how they stagnate

809
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:15.800
<v Speaker 1>under pressure, and how they fail to adapt are urgently contemporary, absolutely,

810
00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:18.119
<v Speaker 1>and that brings us to our final thought for today.

811
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:22.760
<v Speaker 1>In this universe, humanity realized that depending on thinking machines

812
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:25.760
<v Speaker 1>was an existential threat to their spirit. It led to

813
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:28.639
<v Speaker 1>a brutal band that forced human beings to look inward,

814
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:32.360
<v Speaker 1>to push their own minds and bodies to extraordinary, almost

815
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:36.440
<v Speaker 1>superhuman limits, out of sheer desperate necessity. Right, looking at

816
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:38.639
<v Speaker 1>our own world today, with our phones and our algorithms,

817
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:41.400
<v Speaker 1>doing our math, mapping our roots and answering our coins,

818
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:43.599
<v Speaker 1>are we moving in the exact opposite direction?

819
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:44.719
<v Speaker 2>It's a great question.

820
00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:48.719
<v Speaker 1>And if we are, what incredible hidden human potential are

821
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:52.440
<v Speaker 1>we failing to unlock within ourselves simply because we are

822
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.199
<v Speaker 1>outsourcing all of our thinking to the machine. Think about

823
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:57.880
<v Speaker 1>that until next time, Keep diving deep.