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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellows?

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Speaker 2: It goes, I am dan Fa Valley, a delirious dan

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l basking in the delirium dan Fa Valley coming at

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you with the one, the only, the certified fantabulous. Mister

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Grant Hughes, we are gathered around the hardware Off campfire

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today to talk about what happened in the Nick Spurs

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NBA Finals. You might have heard about the outcome a

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certain team ended a fifty three year titled drought, but

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we also want to apply it to the rest of

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the league and start thinking about, well, what can we learn?

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What can every single team learn from these finals? Maybe

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the playoffs at large, So we'll get into that finals

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wrap up, anecdotes, maybe a whole bunch of fun stuff,

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but grants the question, I think everyone is dying the

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answer to know how am I doing? No?

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Speaker 1: How are you doing? Sara? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say, uh, not as good as you.

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That's how I'm doing?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 3: I Yeah, it's uh. This is the first time in

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uh since we have known each other that your team

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has a more recent championship than mine does, because I

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think technically the Warriors seventy five championship, So like all

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along just I've had that lead on you.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's going to fracture the relationship at all?

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This podcast? I don't.

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Speaker 3: I feel lesser. I feel less than now you should,

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I think you should. I just I feel like there's you.

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You just have this advantage. Uh No, I I'm doing well.

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I'm sure you. I'm sure you agree and feel ten

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x on this front. But like, what a series? What

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a five game series? Like it was that the most

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intense five game series in the history of professional sports

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series like full stop. I just unbelievable. Can't wait to

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talk about it. But I mean, I don't know if

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you want to take it now, but like, how how

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are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I think my single biggest takeaway from this is the

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Knicks a NBA champions and I don't really know what

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to do with my hands.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was in the moment, it.

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Speaker 2: Was so surreal because like I had all this stuff

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that was due after the game. There was four things

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that I had to get done for Bleacher Report afterwards,

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so you're not really thinking about it, but like then

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you stop and think, this is kind of what I

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grew up wanting to do. There was a version of

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it where I would be on site covering the finals.

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But as I've told you many times before, on site

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work when we used to do it, I hated it.

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And it's like me covering the finals from Afar, I

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was able to stop, like in between the crazy, like

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this is what you wanted to do, this is cool.

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So everyone was a lot of people text me saying, oh,

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this sucks that, like you're working, and like, I guess

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it kind of did, but it was also like, well,

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this is what I wanted to do, And I was

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overwhelmed because I think one of the biggest compliments and

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I don't think in the current climate that this would

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be considered a compliment. But for so many years that

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we did this podcast together, this podcast is going. People

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had no idea I was a Knicks fan. It was

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something that I it was like a badge of honor

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that I kept it guarded because I didn't want it

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to skew my coverage too much. But I think as

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it became more acceptable to kind of let fandom show,

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I was clearly behind the eight ball on that was

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were by the number of messages I got from complete

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strangers on the internet, just like the worst people you

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met through the internet, text messages from like family and

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friends and what it was Nicks fans who I knew

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were die hards.

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Speaker 1: It was like, okay, I get.

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Speaker 2: It, but it was just like people actively congratulating me

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as if I had something to do with it. So

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I kept responding, I'd like to think that my contributions

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were beyond measure to this title. Push people that I

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would still consider, like I went to their weddings or

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were but I haven't spoken to in years, texted me

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and just reached out. I didn't really sleep Saturday and

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the Sunday, and so instead of sleeping, I was just like,

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let me go to the gym and get this over with.

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So then having people come up to me who like

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they kind of know what I do or might have known,

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like congratulating me at six thirty am Eastern time at

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the gym, and.

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Speaker 1: So I had noticed too.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I mentioned this to you, there's

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a lot of people who got annoyed by if they

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were bandwagon fans or just paying attention to the finals

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now that the Knicks.

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Speaker 1: Were in it.

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Speaker 2: I had noticed like just more Nick's talk, more Nicks

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garb at the gym or from in the souper, and

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I'm not.

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Speaker 1: People who don't know me. I'm not flexing because I

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go to the gym.

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Speaker 2: The gym and the supermarket are like the only two

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places that I go anymore, So that's the only way

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we're going to see it.

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Speaker 1: And so like that was just really cool to see.

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Speaker 2: And I'm ninety minutes out of the city and there

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were fireworks immediately after the final buzzer, and so that

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there's just such an impact on people, whether it's they're

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just capitalizing on quote unquote what they believe to be mayhem,

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or just being super connected by this objectively just fun,

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cool thing that happened and removing yourself from the discourse

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of can they do like one of the things, well,

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here's a peep behind the curtain. I was trying to

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convince to write about why the Knicks would either be

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a one hit wonder or the next great dynasty, and

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I just flat out said no. I was like, I

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was like, no, let's do something that's like actually related

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to it. And so to be able to live in

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that moment was I still don't think it's hit me,

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Like maybe it'll hit me when they're on the parade,

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But I just haven't wrapped my head around this.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure there's.

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Speaker 2: Probably a more youthful version of myself that's bummed that

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I in tears or like I had screamed a few times.

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But and you can ask my wife, boy did I

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scream a few times? So I'm sure there was a

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like a version of Dan who's twenty years younger that's

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like disgusted by my reaction here. But like what I

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actually felt like, I do have this feeling which, as

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you know too, like especially over the past, like stupid

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levity has not been something that's been available in ample

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supply the past.

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Speaker 1: Like fourteen or fifteen months.

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Speaker 2: It just feels like there's this levity or like this

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weight or just like this weird something off my shoulders.

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And that's not to say it's not about me, I

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justin or that it's about me excuse me. I just

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imagine that that's a feeling that millions of New Yorkers

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just have at this moment or after that moment, and

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that's really fucking cool.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when your tea, so I I totally identify with

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the surreality of it, because it's like like if you

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if you had to pick like one sports outcome or

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even one like one thing to happen that is in

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any way related to a pastime of yours or like

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a thing you're interested in. It wouldn't be like I

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do even are you do you identify as like a

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Yankees fan or like a New York Giants fan or

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what like? Sure, but like you would pick a Knicks

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title a million times over any of those other things, right,

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or like I don't even know what the what the

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what what a comp would be? And like then you

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get that thing and it happens this way with this team,

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and it's just like you can't really process it, cause

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like the best thing just happened, you know, like the

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best thing you could have asked for just happened, like

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a thing that take yourself at any age, and you

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would have begged for this, and it's just like you

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almost can't get your head around it because it's just

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like you you don't know how you Like, I can

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remember the first Warriors title being like I don't know

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what I thought I was gonna feel. I don't know

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what I do feel. It's just like and then I

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landed where you landed, where this little thought would creep

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into your head, you know, weeks or months later where

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it's like they just want it, Like it's like it

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just like trickles into your brain, like you know what.

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That doesn't make all the bad stuff in the world

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go away, but it's a nice little offset that's just

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like you know what, right now, and for several months

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and for the whole rest of the next year, you're

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gonna get to have that feeling of like they fucking

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want it, and it's just it's gonna make you.

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Speaker 2: Feel good and it's cool to be wrong because I

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think so that Warrior's side on twenty fifteen, I have

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to imagine what was so special is that nobody I'm

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infamously one person did, but like nobody was picking them

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to win the title, and so there's something special in

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that catching the entire league off guard.

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Speaker 1: And then what goes on to happen too.

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Speaker 2: In hindsight with the Knicks, it wasn't unexpected because they

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were I mean, you had James Dolan calling a tyler

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or bust.

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Speaker 1: They were built to do this now.

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Speaker 2: But I was just wrong in the sense that you

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go back to the very first move, that trickle that

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started all of this, the Jallen Brunson signing, and there's

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I think there's a YouTube short somewhere of me crashing

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out about it. I didn't criticize the amount of the contract,

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it was the process by what the Knicks got or

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went to get him and the player they quote unquote

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settled on. I thought it was just a commitment to mediocrity.

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So you're wrong from the start. And then if you

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go back to post NBA Cup, how many times did

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I say some variation. I would hope it is a

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little bit more nuanced than this, But no, this team

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just doesn't have it, like there's something rotten here. And

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then for them to just reach not just the apex

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of their powers, but put in one of the most

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you don't have to call them one of the most

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dominant teams in NBA history.

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Speaker 1: That was one of the most dominant playoff runs we've

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ever seen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and for them to put that together, there was

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the disarming nature of it. So it was it was surprising.

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But then you're also wrong about because we were forced

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to give opinions on what it wasn't they weren't considered

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a contender. We had to talk about throughout the year,

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are they actually a contender, and so there's just all

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these receipts of me being consistently wrong about this team,

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and that kind of made it sweeter in a sense,

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not that I enjoy being wrong, but it wasn't just

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they were built to do this and they did it.

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It was they were built to do this. We all

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decided that they failed and then they didn't. And it

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was had you asked me, and maybe I even told

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you this at one point, like I never would have.

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I would have just flat out said they're not winning

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a title in my lifetime or before I age out

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of covering this day to day, like I never would have.

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So for that to happen is just still riding on

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cloud and I just don't really know how to like

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sort of react to it.

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Speaker 1: And just seeing the interviews and.

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Speaker 2: Like the joy coming out from all these different people,

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and then like even the hilarity moment, like the hilarious

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moments of just like I don't know if you saw

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any of og on Good Morning of America. I don't

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know if he was just viably uncomfortable or stoned, but

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was just like the coolest thing, and he was just

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so awkward. There was the video he went he put

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on his Instagram live on accident and you hear him

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in the background asking other people how do I stop

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the live and it was just like.

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Speaker 3: You know what I will say. I one of the

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best parts is the post title stuff, like the celebratory stuff,

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because like I think, I think what you want in

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increasingly in the world we live in, like authenticity is

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just like impossible to find, and you get these little

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pockets of it here and there. But like when a

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team wins a championship, you get this like this flood

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of like the guard comes down. They're just feeling, like

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the players specifically, they're just like feeling the feelings that

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they've like been conditioned and like in some cases specifically

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coached through like media training to just hide, you know,

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and it all comes out and you get to see

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just this sincere, authentic reaction from these people that have

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been praying for this to happen their entire lives. Like

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thinking of Brunson, for example, just like his whole entire

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life has just been geared towards like can I do

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this thing? And then he does the thing and you

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get to see in real time like what that does

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to a person. You know, he just like is pretty overwhelmed.

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I was like shocked by how held together he seemed

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in the immediate aftermath, he was clearly emotional, but like

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I love a good like collapse on the floor in

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a heap, tear like tears just like jump up forever,

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Like that's just the best. And then like the parade

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is a whole other thing where they're just like everybody's

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pretty lit, they're all like on no sleep per days,

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and then you get the real like just the I

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don't know, yeah, the guardrails come down and it's just

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like a really special like add in to the whole,

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like they won the championship experience.

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Speaker 2: I don't think Jeremy Sohan has put on a shirt

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since they won, which is just great because Jeremy Sohan

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comes in mid season, isn't really like an active contributor.

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Was facing the Spurs, I think the funniest moment so

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far that I've seen. I'm sure the parade will get

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to it, and I don't think it was intentionally funny,

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but they were doing if you saw Rick and Jalen

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Brunton were talking with the inside the NBA crew and

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Rick Brunson pretty much unprompted says, I think Shaq is

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the greatest free agency signing in NBA history.

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Speaker 3: And Patrick Ewing, he says, Patrick.

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Speaker 1: Ewing is the greatest thing ever and is just sitting

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right next to him. And so I just found that

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so funny.

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Speaker 2: And to your point about the guards coming down, we

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do a much better I think of treating because they

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are like acknowledging the humanness of everything about the NBA.

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But when you do see these players and they're interacting

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with their children or they're just their families, and it's

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just you think back to all the stuff that was

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said about them, or the vitriol hurled their weary on

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social media, or the number of fake trades that we

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put them through, and it's cool to see and I

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would argue probably essential just to see that veil pull

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down a little bit, to remind yourself like there are

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just real humans behind all this, and to see them

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overcome with emotion is I think in some ways this

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stuff will mean more or be something they taught like,

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not that it doesn't mean more to players than it

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does fans, but you sometimes can fall into the trap

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of the players aren't connected to the logo on their

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jersey the way that the fan base is and I

293
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think there's some truth to that, but like this shit

294
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absolutely matters for them, and like it was you see

295
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it with I would say, I'm trying to think of

296
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the last champion that I would have been disappointed in

297
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their reaction, Like even the Warriors having won so many

298
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in a short amount of time. Ember when the Spurs

299
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did it, it was always just so emotional when it happened.

300
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It's like that part of it is just one of

301
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the most like compelling things of crowning a champion in general.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty pretty spectacular. Where do you want to go

303
00:13:13,039 --> 00:13:13,799
from here?

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Speaker 1: The last self indulgent thing I'll do?

305
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Speaker 3: Oh, here we go you.

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Speaker 1: I told my friend I would put this on for

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this podcast.

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Speaker 2: We won you and I were sent some br swag

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and I have a Wu Tang Nicks jersey.

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Speaker 3: How appropriate by the way, Method Man called it Nixon five.

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Speaker 2: So for anyone watching the second and last time, you

312
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will see me in a sleeveless I think, unless the

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air condition is broken, a sleeveless.

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Speaker 1: Shirt on this podcast. So shout out to br for

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breaking us up with swag.

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Speaker 2: Grant might put on his eight X Yeah Warriors jersey.

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Speaker 3: At forty edition. It's very bedazzled. I hate to break

318
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it to you and to myself, I guess, or admits

319
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myself might be a minute for the Warriors collect another title,

320
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so I may not have cause for it.

321
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Speaker 1: That just gives you time to fit into it, though.

322
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It's like you, really I do. I think of you though.

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Speaker 2: One of the first words that come to mind is bedazzled,

324
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and so I think at least they got the size

325
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wasn't going to be right.

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Speaker 1: At least the spirit behind it was.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it captures my essence really well.

328
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Speaker 2: Really, so I think we should start with maybe our

329
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takeaways for each team from the series before getting in

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the league wide stuff.

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Speaker 1: Did you want to start? You can go Spurs Knicks.

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Speaker 2: What is like kind of your single biggest takeaway from

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one of them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I I I think it's pretty specific I've made

335
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,000
I've made the observation before. I guess I'm maybe you

336
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can correct me on this, but like, I don't feel

337
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like I'm seeing this particular take as often as I

338
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think or as I would have expected to, which is

339
00:14:44,399 --> 00:14:46,600
again that just like Victor woman Yama right now today

340
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,120
is not an offensive creator or playmaker or I think

341
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,960
I said last time we talked. He's not a stabilizer.

342
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He's not like the safe place and the safe place

343
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that the ball can go when you haven't scored in

344
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five possessions and the other teams cutting into the lead.

345
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Basically like it's a tough look in a series where

346
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the guy on the other side is Jalen Brunson and

347
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he is one hundred percent that guy where it's just

348
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you know, at a minimum he's going to get you.

349
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Maybe it'll be a tough look, but because it's him,

350
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you trust that. Well, a tough look you know for

351
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,519
him is is a is a pretty good look for

352
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somebody else that just isn't what Wembanyama is. And and

353
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I mean will we will talk about all of the

354
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other shortcomings that that were revealed in the Spurs. This

355
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is at the very least wemban Yama's sort of failings

356
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in this specific regard are tied to I think some

357
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of the bigger issues that the Spurs had. And again

358
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we're we're talking about issues for a team that won

359
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sixty games and is like a million years ahead of

360
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schedule and has as bright a future as any team

361
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in the league, has better title odds next year than

362
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the Knicks two. So, so just like this is all

363
00:15:51,919 --> 00:15:54,600
right old? Is that true that I think it is?

364
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,639
You're right, Sorry, I hope you enjoyed the title of

365
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your old news.

366
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Speaker 1: Now, well, now the vibes are real.

367
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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean it's so yeah, I mean, am

368
00:16:04,919 --> 00:16:07,320
I making too much of that? Like, and I can

369
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,159
see that it's like it's unfair. He's the best defensive

370
00:16:09,159 --> 00:16:10,759
player in the world, Like he's got a team full

371
00:16:10,759 --> 00:16:12,360
of guards that should be doing this for him. But

372
00:16:12,799 --> 00:16:16,120
it did seem like the Spurs never really gave up

373
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on the idea of or maybe weren't good enough offensively.

374
00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:22,639
Otherwise we talk about that to avoid these situations where

375
00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:24,799
women Yama has to create a shot on the perimeter

376
00:16:25,039 --> 00:16:28,559
too far from the basket, and it just I struggle

377
00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:30,759
to think of an example of when it worked, you know,

378
00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:33,639
or when it generated a stabilizing possession. It just it

379
00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:37,720
just never really did. Yeah, I'll stop there, because there's

380
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a million sort of like like offshoots of this discussion

381
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that we can have.

382
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Speaker 2: Well, I guess I don't think anything you said was wrong,

383
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,960
But the two things that I harp on, and this

384
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,039
would be the low hanging fruit it's year three, and

385
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,919
so this is the worst that Victor Weben Yama is

386
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,679
ever gonna be. My other I think more salient question

387
00:16:58,759 --> 00:17:02,759
is does he need to be that player when you

388
00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:04,960
look at what he's what he can still do if

389
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,480
you look at him as if he's at number two

390
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,000
on offense, and then you have what he does on

391
00:17:09,039 --> 00:17:11,480
defense and the way that he does even without the

392
00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:14,079
ball on either end of the court, just reshape the

393
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,920
geometry of it and how defense is slash opposing offenses

394
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,599
approach him, do you like? Are you building your like?

395
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,720
Is the idea of Victim Miyama he needs to be

396
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:23,279
that guy?

397
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,319
Speaker 3: I don't think so. And I think just between Harper

398
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,039
and Castle getting better, hopefully this burs are in a

399
00:17:30,079 --> 00:17:32,920
situation where it's like, it's not even really a consideration

400
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,200
that you put him in that position again in high

401
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,839
stake situations, I think too, it's it's probably just a

402
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,079
testament to his skill level where that's even like something

403
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,599
that's justifiable to try is trusting him in just virtually

404
00:17:46,599 --> 00:17:51,279
any offensive situation. I mean, I just think it's unrealistic

405
00:17:51,319 --> 00:17:53,799
to ask that of him long term, even if he

406
00:17:53,799 --> 00:17:56,359
does get significantly better at it. Because his defensive role

407
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,319
is so important and so taxing, and I think clearly

408
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,839
taxed him during during specific games and through the series.

409
00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:06,480
It's the finals itself. Yeah, I think that's that's the

410
00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:09,799
right question to ask, is like should he be in

411
00:18:09,839 --> 00:18:12,599
a position where he's asked to do that? And I

412
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,960
don't think so. I think ideally he is a second

413
00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:18,920
or third option or just just a play finisher. That's

414
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,039
that's the term that has resonated most with me, is

415
00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:23,799
he's someone that could be the greatest finisher in the

416
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,599
league offensively, whether that's a lob, whether that's his value

417
00:18:26,599 --> 00:18:29,599
as a spacer. I just I just think this the

418
00:18:29,599 --> 00:18:32,039
best version of the Spurs will be setting him up

419
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,160
as opposed to him trying to generate stuff. I mean,

420
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,640
I just and again I think you're right. It doesn't

421
00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:39,440
It doesn't seem like that's something he ought to be

422
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:40,200
asked to do.

423
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,799
Speaker 2: If you could, though you're adding Victor Wormriyama needs to

424
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:47,799
add or perfect one thing between now and next season.

425
00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:49,039
Speaker 1: What are you kind of harping on?

426
00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:51,400
Speaker 3: Hmm? I mean, this is the thing with him is

427
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,359
it's like he's such a talent that it's hard to

428
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,759
isolate one thing I think. I guess maybe here's what

429
00:18:59,799 --> 00:19:02,440
my brain went to very first, so first thought, best thought,

430
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:04,759
I think he needs to be a little stronger, and

431
00:19:05,079 --> 00:19:07,200
which would enable him to catch the ball at the

432
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,799
basket more often, because the Knicks had so much success

433
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,200
just getting a body in his way and preventing those

434
00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:14,440
lobs or I mean they were fouling him on purpose,

435
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,000
I think effectively anytime a lob went up. But if

436
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,079
he can get a little stronger and hold that position,

437
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,839
better get to the spot and hold the position, then

438
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,119
there's nothing to do with him because you can't. There's

439
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,799
no amount of help, defense or positioning that will matter.

440
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,519
If you can throw the ball to a spot where

441
00:19:32,519 --> 00:19:34,039
only he can catch it. He just has to be

442
00:19:34,039 --> 00:19:36,440
able to get to those spots. Do you agree with

443
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,599
that or do you lean towards like, oh, just more

444
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,200
three point shooting, or let's establish the mid range game,

445
00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:43,920
or any number of other possibilities for him.

446
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,839
Speaker 2: I think that's a good one because it kind of

447
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,440
just bleeds into I think people have said, imagine if

448
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,319
he had so and so's face up game, or if

449
00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:52,759
he could do this in the post. And I've kind

450
00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:55,160
of not to diminish what this player is doing or

451
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,359
insinuate that he is the you know, the pinnacle of Unicorns,

452
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,680
like Christops Porzingis has mastered Turn and Fire, and Victor

453
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,319
Wemenyama could do the same thing. I just wonder with

454
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,359
some of the stuff that maybe we've both talked about

455
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,079
in the past. You mentioned the three point volume, do

456
00:20:09,079 --> 00:20:11,400
you think any of that or do you think that

457
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,960
might be more important? Because do you want Victor Wemenyama

458
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,920
doing even as a play finisher if you're operating a

459
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,799
lot from the interior? What if we said doesn't connect

460
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:21,319
on screens enough. Sometimes they don't get him going downhill enough?

461
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,200
Is he and this isn't a Kenny stay healthy? I

462
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,200
would say the same thing about Chet Holmgren. I'd say

463
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,880
the same thing about Kevin Durant if he was like

464
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,640
used in this way. Is that do you worry about

465
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,240
what can he hold up to that type of physicality?

466
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 3: I think I think that's a legit concern. I just

467
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,759
because there is also a version of him that is

468
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,640
getting up ten threes a game and has immense offensive value,

469
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,160
because maybe he can get to the point where he's

470
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,279
making that at thirty eight forty percent, Like that's that's

471
00:20:49,279 --> 00:20:53,519
on the table. I think, to me, even if you

472
00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:56,400
you have to take on the risk of the physicality

473
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,640
and just it's it's sketchy er in there around the basket, right,

474
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,799
There's more feet to step on, there's more bodies to

475
00:21:01,839 --> 00:21:04,079
fall into your knees, all that stuff. I think you

476
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,240
take that risk on because his value as an offensive rebounder,

477
00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:11,359
as a lob finisher, as just like his hands are

478
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,359
so good, he catches everything. I think the upside of

479
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,039
him offensively around the basket is just higher. And like

480
00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:21,519
I just I just don't know. Again, I don't know

481
00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:23,279
what you do with him. If he can just hold

482
00:21:23,279 --> 00:21:26,400
his position down there, there's like there's just there's no answer.

483
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 2: I think this kind of does for my takeaway for

484
00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:33,559
the Spurs. This actually, I think relates nicely. I think

485
00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:36,480
d Aaron Fox is becoming this unfair scapegoat of what

486
00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:37,039
went wrong.

487
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,319
Speaker 1: He was not good by and large.

488
00:21:39,079 --> 00:21:41,079
Speaker 2: In this series, made a couple of we got a

489
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,640
someone he's had this by the way, I think you

490
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,319
could argue that this might be a coaching issue. Someone's

491
00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:47,359
got to have a talk to him about these take

492
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,559
fausts in the end of games. When that doesn't seem

493
00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:51,319
like they need to because what he have two or

494
00:21:51,319 --> 00:21:52,720
three in the series alone?

495
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 1: Three three.

496
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 2: So I'm not trying to sit here and say, you

497
00:21:56,759 --> 00:21:59,039
know what, the Aaron Fox was actually good and they

498
00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:01,480
should have featured him more down the stretch. I just

499
00:22:01,519 --> 00:22:04,519
wonder how much of it was What were the other options,

500
00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:08,000
because I think you've been ahead of Dylan Harper like

501
00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:11,039
compared to me and one of my one of my

502
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,200
not qualms, but issues with well giving Dylan Harper more volume.

503
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,720
I just feel like, does he have the the playmaking

504
00:22:17,759 --> 00:22:20,559
button or can he have the What does Fox do?

505
00:22:20,599 --> 00:22:23,079
In theory can create some separation for a pull up jumper,

506
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,440
and we saw it even with that high cashtrain, which,

507
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,200
by the way, I don't want to make an excuse,

508
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,079
but like that's more than an astis. When you look

509
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,039
at the way that Fox plays.

510
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,039
Speaker 3: It's indivisible from any part of the discussion you want

511
00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:36,079
to have about him. If you're gonna be fair about it,

512
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:37,720
like you have to acknowledge he was playing with an

513
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,839
injury that is like a week's injury. You know he

514
00:22:42,279 --> 00:22:44,400
wouldn't be playing if it was March.

515
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,839
Speaker 2: So sorry, So no, No, where I was wrong is

516
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,559
Dylan Harper just clearly would be ready for it. I

517
00:22:51,559 --> 00:22:53,599
don't think he was ready for what the Spurs needed

518
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:54,079
in this moment.

519
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:54,559
Speaker 3: He did hit.

520
00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: Remember some of the in between.

521
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 2: Shots I was talking about, like if those looks go

522
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,519
down for dearon Fox by the end of the series, Yes,

523
00:22:59,519 --> 00:23:01,839
I didn't want. Fox took like two long TuS down

524
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,440
the stretch of Game five and it was just.

525
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: Uh, it was tough to watch.

526
00:23:04,839 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 2: Harper could put in like a couple of like shorter

527
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,079
mid rangers in that game where it was all right,

528
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:10,680
I don't know what the final form of this kid

529
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,279
is gonna be, but it's gonna be way better than

530
00:23:12,279 --> 00:23:13,240
anyone else who's.

531
00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:15,599
Speaker 1: Not named Wemby on this team. So I do recognize that.

532
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: But he wasn't there, And I do find myself wondering

533
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:26,759
in hindsight, why wasn't developing Dylan Harper's lead initiation stuff

534
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,480
more of a priority throughout the season where it was

535
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,680
go to the four guard lineups with Wemby more, just

536
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,599
give him more pick and roll volume. He had two

537
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,599
point eight pick and roll possessions during the regular season,

538
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:41,640
which is basically half of what Fox or Castle were running.

539
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,960
He stayed true to that volume two and a half

540
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,319
pick and rolls per posession in the playoffs less than

541
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,559
half of what Castle and Fox were running. That should

542
00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:52,559
he should have been more familiar in those instances because

543
00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:55,599
right now I think he's very reliant on If he's

544
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,559
going to create things, it needs to be as a

545
00:23:57,599 --> 00:23:59,160
scorer with his drives or.

546
00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:00,759
Speaker 1: As a passer out of the situations.

547
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 2: Unlike Castle, I don't think he needs to be limited

548
00:24:05,039 --> 00:24:08,200
to that window. And speaking of Castle, I've always been

549
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,240
a little bit lower on Castle than consensus, and he

550
00:24:10,279 --> 00:24:14,359
had a fantastic sophomore campaign. I didn't feel him one

551
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,240
iota in Game five except for really the bad stuff,

552
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,119
and I'm not gonna use that to defind the rest

553
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,200
of his career. But when we're pointing to they needed

554
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,640
to play Harper over Castle or excuse me, Fox, it

555
00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:30,000
wasn't just like a Fox issue. The Harper Castle minutes

556
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:31,839
in this series you had a one oh two point

557
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,240
seven offensive rating and a negative ten net rating. If

558
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:38,880
you play Harper and Fox without Castle, they had a

559
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,279
fifteen point one net rating and were a plus twenty seven.

560
00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:45,759
Speaker 1: So they could have gone to that more like Castle

561
00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:46,079
might have.

562
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,279
Speaker 2: Like it's easy to just look at that in hindsight.

563
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,440
So I just wanted to point out, yes, the Fox

564
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,039
contract isn't great, but this idea that you either need

565
00:24:54,039 --> 00:24:56,880
to dump him or that this is now, this is

566
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,599
now the player he is because we just watched this series,

567
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:01,720
I'm not look you and I both thought they were

568
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,400
gonna maybe negotiate. He signed for four years, two hundred

569
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,279
and twenty one point eight million, begins next season, runs

570
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:10,240
through his age thirty two campaign. Doesn't look ideal when

571
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,880
you see the final year of that contract pays out

572
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,359
sixty one point four million dollars. I don't know what

573
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,200
his trade value is now, but I think because even

574
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,920
if you said, right now we think Dylan Harper is

575
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,000
gonna get better, you still need the idea of what

576
00:25:23,079 --> 00:25:26,079
Fox does because you didn't have proof of concept with

577
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,640
either Castle or Harper being that more complete offensive weapon.

578
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,720
And so to me, it's not Daron Fox has to

579
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,440
be the answer. It's well, the idea of Daron Fox

580
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,039
is still more valuable than not having him, to me.

581
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,839
So if you do want to look at trading him, fine,

582
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,000
but it's not let's just go trade for any expiring contract.

583
00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:46,160
D It's no, you need a player in addition to

584
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,759
the other things that you need, which Grant and I

585
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:49,440
will tackle more in depth when we do this. Spurs

586
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,000
offseason look good, Like, if you're gonna get rid of Fox,

587
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:55,200
you need to replace. What Fox does is more my

588
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,720
point so bad series. I'm not sure what his trade

589
00:25:57,759 --> 00:26:00,480
value is. But I also think that Daron Fox is

590
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,960
just a much better player than we witness in the finals.

591
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: And I don't.

592
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 2: I honestly, we always kind of wonder, well, Fox is

593
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,240
gonna be the odd man out at some point, even

594
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:11,319
when it was clear he fit maybe slightly better than

595
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:11,880
we have thought.

596
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:13,839
Speaker 1: My opinion hasn't changed.

597
00:26:13,839 --> 00:26:16,039
Speaker 2: I don't go into the off season urgently thinking they

598
00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:17,559
need to move on from Diarron Fox.

599
00:26:18,039 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 3: I don't either. I think I think part of that

600
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,839
is just because, well, here's here's where we I think

601
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,519
definitely agree and I think differ maybe from some of

602
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:34,839
the more reactionary thinking on this, is that he's he's

603
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,319
absolutely not a player that you just they're better without

604
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:44,359
him or the overall picture of the Spurs improves if

605
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,079
you get him off the books for expiring money. I

606
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,440
just I just don't. I just don't think that's true,

607
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,960
and that's different, Like I don't think he fits well.

608
00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:56,839
I think if you gave Dylan Harper next season the

609
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,200
exact same opportunities, I think he would outproduce Fox probably,

610
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:05,039
But that's that's not the same thing as and and

611
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,519
like really, what really the issue here is he's gonna

612
00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:12,640
make fifty plus million dollars a year and he's he's

613
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,319
not that player or even if you want to give

614
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,039
him maximum benefit of the doubt and acknowledge, he was

615
00:27:19,079 --> 00:27:21,319
an all star and he you know, has been the

616
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,920
part of the driving I think he was a bigger

617
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,559
part of the King's Awesome season a few years ago

618
00:27:26,599 --> 00:27:31,880
than Sabonis was shocker. But but I I just think

619
00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:35,759
it's the money that wrecks this and on this team

620
00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:40,000
in particular, because Harper seems to be on a track

621
00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:43,920
where it's like, why would you have another guard making

622
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,359
fifty million dollars that like shouldn't play ahead of him

623
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:47,960
on the you know what I mean. It's just it's

624
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,880
the money and it's the fit on this team that

625
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,559
that is tough. But you can you're never gonna get

626
00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:54,240
me to the point of like you gotta dump him.

627
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:57,759
That that's that's crazy because like Look, we've talked about

628
00:27:57,759 --> 00:27:59,920
it already. Look what happened to the Spurs like turn

629
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,519
ball security when Fox wasn't available. It's just like they

630
00:28:03,559 --> 00:28:06,319
clearly needed some of what he provided. I think if

631
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,319
you want to criticize Mitch Johnson, he should have scaled

632
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,119
it back a little bit. Like Fox plays less, Harper

633
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,720
plays more. Maybe you play Fox with Castle more exclusively

634
00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:17,599
and let Harper run. Like there's a lot of ways

635
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,880
to to like move the sliders around without just going

636
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,759
the drastic round of like bench him or you know,

637
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:24,799
people were calling for him to be like it is

638
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,559
never gonna happen, and it shouldn't have happened. I think

639
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,680
there were so many more measured ways to sort of

640
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,880
deal with his poor performance and to get more out

641
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,799
of Harper who was playing great. That may be just

642
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:41,000
another takeaway is like everybody on the Spurs was inexperienced

643
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:42,920
in some key ways, and that includes the coach. Like

644
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,119
it just you know, maybe next time they're in this position,

645
00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:49,720
Johnson has the clout or the confidence to make some

646
00:28:49,759 --> 00:28:52,680
of those tougher decisions. I don't know that. Yeah, that

647
00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:55,240
the pendulum, as we like to say, has swung a

648
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:58,039
little too far. In the negative on Fox, I think.

649
00:28:58,279 --> 00:28:59,119
Speaker 1: Do you think though?

650
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: I guess, But when you look at the money, Dylan

651
00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:05,319
Harper is not going to be making like this was

652
00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:07,440
his rookie season. You have three more years of cost control,

653
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,240
even if you want to measure it against Fox. Oh,

654
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,319
excuse me, Castle, two more years of cost control. So

655
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,880
I don't view the contract as actually being that detrimental.

656
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,920
Do you think it's more of because he makes so much,

657
00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:21,400
they're going to assume that he needs to be more

658
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,160
featured or he can't, not that he needs to come

659
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,359
off the bench. But Dylan Harper is never going to

660
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,079
close over him. He'll have to close jointly with him.

661
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: Well, not at all.

662
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 3: That's part of it. The other part of it is

663
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,759
just the opportunity cost of Like what what else? What

664
00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:37,759
is there a better way for the Spurs to be

665
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:41,000
spending fifty million dollars a year? Answer? Yes, right, Like

666
00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:46,960
if there's you know that a player at that, you know, paygrade,

667
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,480
that's a better option at a forward spot than Julian

668
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,480
than Champagne or or Vassel or whatever. Like I like

669
00:29:56,519 --> 00:29:58,519
both of those guys. Those guys are really good players.

670
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:01,680
But like if you it's been fifty million dollars somewhere else,

671
00:30:01,759 --> 00:30:03,880
like split it up between a better backup center and

672
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,720
like maybe another depth. Like that's really where it is.

673
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,079
That's to me, if you're saying, oh, Fox has got

674
00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:12,519
to be off of this team, it's it's because you

675
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:15,839
want to use those resources someplace else. It's not because like,

676
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,480
well the bill's gonna come do It's not an okay,

677
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,079
see thing or the other. Well, once Castle and Wemby

678
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,799
and and everybody get their money, then boy were in trouble.

679
00:30:23,839 --> 00:30:27,359
It's just like what if that was being spent on

680
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,640
a comparable talent at forward? Like then we just have

681
00:30:31,559 --> 00:30:33,000
a totally different scenario.

682
00:30:34,519 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: I have a hypothetical Fox trade for you to throw out.

683
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: Okay, so Fox and a pick go to Memphis, Ja

684
00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:45,079
Morant goes to Miami, Andrew Wiggans assumingly he ops in

685
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,480
ends up going back to San Antonio with the money

686
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,680
you could finagle if you think the Spurs want a

687
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,279
Santi al Dama or a Ti Jerome leaving Memphis as well,

688
00:30:53,559 --> 00:30:55,039
But would that be like a structure.

689
00:30:57,119 --> 00:30:59,599
Speaker 3: I think that that's kind of what I'm Yeah, I

690
00:30:59,599 --> 00:31:02,599
think you could you need Harper and Castle to both

691
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:05,720
become what you think they can become, which I would

692
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,400
be confident in, especially with respect to Harper Castle's we

693
00:31:08,759 --> 00:31:12,319
might have an more interesting conversation on what Castle should

694
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,079
be on this team. Uh but yeah, Wiggins, I think

695
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,640
is is just the kind of role player you want

696
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,880
on every championship team. Honestly, I would like be aiming higher,

697
00:31:23,039 --> 00:31:25,039
Like you know, what if I don't know, I don't

698
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:27,599
have a great name, but it's like someone like I

699
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,200
don't know the guy that just kept stoning you at

700
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,480
the rim og and Andobie, what what if a player? Yeah?

701
00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:37,160
Like it just that type and what what are the

702
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,519
spurs with that dude? You know? Like that that's a

703
00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:40,079
different thing.

704
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: This is where I will recognize.

705
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: I just don't know what Fox has trade value, Like

706
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,119
how many picks if you're trying to get better than

707
00:31:46,119 --> 00:31:48,519
Andrew Wiggins, who at least is probably more playable than

708
00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:51,160
Harrison Barnes. In this series, if we're looking back, most

709
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,200
would be yes, what is your looking at the Knicks

710
00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:55,519
end of the spectrum? Before we get into more of

711
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:57,519
the league wide poll based off this series, what's your

712
00:31:57,519 --> 00:31:59,839
biggest takeaway for the Knicks other than they're the next

713
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,119
dynasty coming here.

714
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 3: Yes, other than they're either one and done or they're

715
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,559
gonna win three of the next five titles, because that's

716
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:08,559
what we have to do every time a team wins.

717
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: I'm glad you get it.

718
00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of the other. So this ties to

719
00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:20,960
just I don't know this. This is making me reevaluate,

720
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:22,720
Like you know how every year you try to think

721
00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:24,279
like what we will go through them, like what are

722
00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:27,400
the lessons here? And it's like, I'm not sure. Jalen

723
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,480
Brunson is always a top ten player. And we've had

724
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:35,079
the conversation many times of like, well, wherever the cutoff

725
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,400
is for best player on a championship team, I think

726
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,200
he's below the line, And then clearly he's not because

727
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,680
he just did that. And he did it by scoring

728
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,279
forty five points, which is like, damn your half of

729
00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:49,119
his team's total in a closeout game, and just engineered

730
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:51,599
comeback after comeback, was always there in the fourth quarter,

731
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,759
basically like did everything that you would ask of your

732
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:58,599
best player in a high stake situation, just over and

733
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,759
over and over again. And so I guess the takeaway

734
00:33:01,799 --> 00:33:04,440
is that like he wasn't good enough right up until

735
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,720
the moment that there was no doubt whatsoever that he

736
00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:10,559
actually was, So like, what is that? What does that

737
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,279
mean for how we go about evaluating you know, a

738
00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:17,759
team may just say like a team's championship equity, because

739
00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:19,359
I think a lot of the time we'd be like, well,

740
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,599
they don't have Shay or Jannis or Jokic or Luca

741
00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:28,039
or maybe one or two other guys. Wemby, Yeah, right,

742
00:33:28,079 --> 00:33:30,359
Wemby was ahead of him in this conversation, and we

743
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:32,599
just my first point was like, he ain't that guy

744
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,839
at least offensively, So what do we do with that now?

745
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,160
Because it just you know, like you're building a team,

746
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,599
this ties to everything. It's why tanking was a thing,

747
00:33:40,599 --> 00:33:42,359
because you want to go get the guy who can

748
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,160
be the guy. And Brunson didn't fit that mold at all.

749
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:48,440
And do you think it's that he was this good

750
00:33:48,519 --> 00:33:52,519
all along that we've been mistaken in how we're evaluating

751
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,400
the top criteria for a championship team, which is you

752
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,079
got to have a guy that's just like top three

753
00:33:58,119 --> 00:34:01,000
in the league or whatever. Or is this a case

754
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:04,680
of the team around him was so good and fits

755
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,799
so well that yeah, you can win it with the

756
00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:10,280
eleventh best player or whatever, the eighth or the ninth, like,

757
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,480
how do we how do we go forward evaluating? You know,

758
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:18,119
does does tem X have the key ingredient for a

759
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:23,480
championship win? Because Brunson basically never fit that description, except

760
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,199
now he does because he did the thing.

761
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: I think it's probably more the latter that it's easy,

762
00:34:29,519 --> 00:34:32,760
that it's possible to build a championship team around someone

763
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,960
who's not a top ten player but is still or

764
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:38,519
for X amount of years, or a consensus top ten player,

765
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,480
but they still need to be firmly I know the

766
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,760
range isn't increasing as much. It still needs to be

767
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,119
a firmly an All NBA player. But when he's just

768
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:47,320
making second team All NBA, you could say, well, he's

769
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,440
been a top ten player, And I think that's fair

770
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,400
if we're looking at it through the brunts and lens specifically,

771
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,400
I think it probably needs to change the way that.

772
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: We evaluate small guards.

773
00:34:57,119 --> 00:34:58,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's by that.

774
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 2: By that, I mean no, someone shouldn't try and build

775
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,760
a championship team around a Colin Gillespie. It's what did

776
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,440
we miss about brunching Brunson is I think there's always

777
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,000
been what we value it until we don't, which is

778
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,960
if they can just get buckets against any sort of

779
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,800
defense like that matters, or draw fouls, like get to

780
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,440
the foul line just because they're not like a spelty, wiry,

781
00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:22,800
fluid six' Five Shay Gildess Alexander, no like the six

782
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,679
foot he's six, two BUT i think he's more like

783
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,119
five to, Eleven, like, yeah.

784
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:28,679
Speaker 1: This is dating profile.

785
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 2: MATH i think two like a five to eleven inch

786
00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:36,199
bruising tank that has incredible. Footwork and the other thing

787
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,079
to me is we need to go a little bit in.

788
00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:41,239
Deeper is, well let's evaluate why what is their limitation

789
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,519
on defense or why is it hard to build a

790
00:35:43,559 --> 00:35:44,159
top tier.

791
00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:45,119
Speaker 1: Defense infury around.

792
00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:48,199
Speaker 2: Them is it because they are trey young and they're

793
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,719
slight and they're, small or is it really just well they're,

794
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,519
small so teams will Like Jalen brunton is always by

795
00:35:54,559 --> 00:35:57,119
and large, tried and it DOESN'T i would, say actually

796
00:35:57,559 --> 00:35:59,679
most of the time it doesn't. MATTER i would go

797
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,679
as far saying, That but if you get in there

798
00:36:01,679 --> 00:36:04,199
and you take charges and you can handle that physicality

799
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,719
and you can provide any sort of physical resistance to

800
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,840
guys that MIGHT i think that probably needs to matter.

801
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 1: More it's sort of didn't we go through this phase

802
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:12,920
a little.

803
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 2: Bit With Kyle lowry where it was recognizing how good he,

804
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,039
was AND i know that he's not as.

805
00:36:19,079 --> 00:36:21,199
Speaker 1: Small what is he listed at? Six what is he? Six?

806
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 3: He so they play, similarly you, know size, wise and.

807
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 2: And so like that type of player if they can

808
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,719
do What John brunton does on. Offense Even Kyle LOWRY

809
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,039
i think was probably a little bit morephiness on. Offense

810
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,440
but we need to more holistically look at these. Players

811
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,320
we dismissed them because, no like history says you can't

812
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,960
win with your best player being under a certain, height

813
00:36:43,199 --> 00:36:46,079
and it's just so easy to like for that to

814
00:36:46,119 --> 00:36:48,440
be like you're almost, certain like we've created so much

815
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,480
criteria to where it's well Like Asaiah thomas did, it

816
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,559
but The Detroit pistons were the. Like SO i think

817
00:36:55,559 --> 00:36:57,800
it does NEED i don't think that will Book Jalen

818
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,280
brunson's this new we've unveiled a new code, archetype BUT

819
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,360
i think it's something to more so keep in mind.

820
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,079
Now but to your initial, QUESTION i really do think

821
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:09,639
it's more about the team that you put around them as,

822
00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:12,360
well especially the other variables that go into play here

823
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,800
when you're looking at are we saying the same thing

824
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,559
About Jalen brunson right now or even through and through

825
00:37:17,559 --> 00:37:20,679
the season if he's on a market value, contract that's

826
00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:21,719
also kind of part of.

827
00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:22,639
Speaker 1: The shine with.

828
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: Him so but like you look, at not every team

829
00:37:27,039 --> 00:37:30,079
has an OGN, i like is? THERE i wrote this

830
00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:32,119
AND i said it off handedly without giving it much.

831
00:37:32,119 --> 00:37:35,440
Thought but The knicks's wing, trio for as flawed as

832
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,079
they can, be there's not another wing trio in the

833
00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:40,639
league Like josh hart Mchal bridge's ogn AND. Obi when

834
00:37:40,679 --> 00:37:43,159
you're looking at what you're able to do defensively with,

835
00:37:43,199 --> 00:37:46,280
them that's not, saying, well look at like putting good

836
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,719
wings around, Him like that's not a, revelation that's just

837
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,079
something we. Knew, no The knicks seem to have just

838
00:37:51,559 --> 00:37:54,119
they hoarded them without people kind of realizing.

839
00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:59,119
Speaker 3: It mm. HMM i think the other thing that the beautiful,

840
00:37:59,159 --> 00:38:01,280
thing one of the beautif things about This knicks team

841
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,639
winning a championship is it's sort of every time this,

842
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,559
happens like just again The warriors, run it's, like, well

843
00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:13,440
everybody's got to have switchable defenders and crazy shooting and

844
00:38:13,519 --> 00:38:15,880
like that's the blueprint for a. While and then you,

845
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,320
Know i'm trying LIKE i don't. Know then wings are,

846
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,840
king like everybody's trying to compete With tatum And brown or,

847
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,079
whatever like this one is like so you're gonna need

848
00:38:25,199 --> 00:38:28,440
like someone with a bigger heart and more toughness than

849
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:31,719
anybody else on Planet earth. Has and you're also gonna

850
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:36,639
need him to take massive discounts so you can surround

851
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,000
him with talent because all he cares about is. Winning

852
00:38:39,039 --> 00:38:42,199
and and like this is one of the like that

853
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,199
is really truly where this all, starts is like you

854
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,679
can't The knicks can't do this other. Stuff they can't

855
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,320
put a supporting cast that's good enough to make the

856
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,159
ninth to twelfth best player in the league a champion

857
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,039
unless he takes the, discount, Right like and he did

858
00:38:59,079 --> 00:39:03,039
that to, Win AND i think like, HE i don't,

859
00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:07,159
know it's you run up against this like ick feeling

860
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,760
of he saved the owners money and we don't want

861
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,159
to cheer, that like get what you can, Get LIKE

862
00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:15,159
i do think that's a logical, Thing like you can

863
00:39:15,199 --> 00:39:17,199
never be mad at someone for taking as much money

864
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:18,960
as they can get in a. Career that's gonna last

865
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,760
some ten years if they're. Lucky but like he really

866
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,079
did do the thing everyone says they're willing to, do

867
00:39:26,159 --> 00:39:28,639
which is JUST i want to win before anything, else

868
00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:29,920
And i'll do what you need me to do to

869
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,199
make that. Happen like that part is not easily replicable

870
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,400
because today nobody as good As brunson has taken a

871
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,880
haircut to the degree that he. Has and if you

872
00:39:41,039 --> 00:39:45,840
want to expand the criteria or the types of the

873
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,079
list of teams that can win titles without a top five,

874
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:52,800
player you need that element. Too and like nobody's gonna do,

875
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,159
This Like Jalen brunson winning a championship is not going

876
00:39:55,199 --> 00:39:58,000
to kick off a rash of really good players taking

877
00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:00,320
way less. MONEY i just don't think it's gonna. Happen

878
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:00,760
this is the.

879
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 2: You're actually bleeding into one of my league wide, TAKEAWAYS i,

880
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,760
think Because i'm wondering if it will and maybe we

881
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,599
should just we could just get in, well, well we'll save.

882
00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:11,719
It but so the the Other Jalen brunson, thing, too

883
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,360
is that the adaptability that he had when they did

884
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,960
shift more of the offense to towns or even to Mchal,

885
00:40:18,039 --> 00:40:21,320
BRIDGES i think that kind of proved being your top

886
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,119
player regardless of your, height being able to play in

887
00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:27,920
different ways offensively with them and them still being primary

888
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,519
scorer material is important BECAUSE i don't THINK i.

889
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,599
Speaker 1: Think more stars are adaptable than.

890
00:40:33,599 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 2: Not BUT i don't think that you could use Prime

891
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,480
James harden necessarily in the way that The knicks we're

892
00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:41,800
Using Jalen brunson when they funneled the offense To Karl Anthony.

893
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 1: TOWNS i don't they haven't needed.

894
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 2: TO i will say we've seen him play faster and

895
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:46,760
off the ball a little bit more LIKE i don't

896
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,320
know if you could do that With. Luca this is

897
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,119
not to Say Jalen brunson is better Than, luca but

898
00:40:50,159 --> 00:40:52,840
looking through the lens of if you're not the top five,

899
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,840
guy like having that scalability to different forms of the,

900
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,679
offense that has to matter. Too it's not like if

901
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,800
If Jalen brunson Was Luka, doncic but he's nine inches, shorter, like,

902
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,079
yeah we have we have, problems but he's Not, Luka

903
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,519
like there were just other things that separated him from.

904
00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:11,599
That so not THAT i don't know if it's easier

905
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:12,079
to build.

906
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:12,519
Speaker 1: A contender Around.

907
00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 2: Brunson maybe that's a conversation that some people are ready to,

908
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,719
have but it's it's possible because of LIKE, X y AND,

909
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,800
z rather than we need to put them in this

910
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,840
this bucket and so me, PERSONALLY i am going to

911
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,480
try and think longer and harder about when a team

912
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:28,519
has someone in that maybe even top fifty to twenty,

913
00:41:28,639 --> 00:41:30,480
range where's we're thinking about they need to scale?

914
00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 1: Up and maybe it's more.

915
00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: About, no like you need to diversify around them and

916
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,079
be smarter around them and get higher in talent around,

917
00:41:37,159 --> 00:41:39,519
them which is sort of a no. Brainer but we

918
00:41:39,519 --> 00:41:42,000
we harp on whether it's a team tanking or whether

919
00:41:42,039 --> 00:41:44,920
it's a team trying to get over the championship hip championship.

920
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: Pump excuse? Me do they have you named all of?

921
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,920
Them The, giannis The, luca The, jokic The shay wemb et. Cetera.

922
00:41:51,519 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

923
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,079
Speaker 2: Yeah the final takeaway for this, year not the final,

924
00:41:55,159 --> 00:41:56,960
one but the one THAT i think The knicks did

925
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,599
a good job of. Showing we focus a lot on

926
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,000
like the risks that team's, take The knicks trading For

927
00:42:02,079 --> 00:42:05,000
Karl Anthony towns doing so much to go Get John

928
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,119
brunson deciding that they're not only gonna trade For og

929
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,119
but pay him five, years two hundred and twelve point

930
00:42:10,119 --> 00:42:10,480
five million.

931
00:42:10,519 --> 00:42:12,159
Speaker 1: DOLLARS i feel like sometimes we.

932
00:42:12,159 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 2: Forget about the moves not made when they very really

933
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,559
could have. Been and so a couple of spring to minds.

934
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:20,519
Here i'll start With Donovan. Mitchell and it was after

935
00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:23,480
The knicks had already Had, brunson so maybe that made it.

936
00:42:23,559 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: Easier BUT i don't know if you.

937
00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:27,199
Speaker 2: Remember Donovan mitchell said after he was traded to The,

938
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,000
cavaliers he had heard about The knicks's best offer and

939
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:34,039
it Included Hella, picks AND i guess the line in

940
00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:34,639
the sand WAS.

941
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,639
Speaker 1: Rj, barrett which in hindsight is just. Funny but if

942
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:38,440
you TRADE.

943
00:42:38,639 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 2: Rj barrett And Hella picks For Donovan, mitchell the sliding

944
00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:45,840
doors here are. Incredible it's, one Does brunton Become brunson

945
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:47,159
Alongside Donovan?

946
00:42:47,159 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: Mitchell the answer is, no, right you don't. Trade oh go.

947
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 3: AHEAD i KNOW i was gonna, say, like you're just

948
00:42:54,519 --> 00:42:57,920
you've already gone off on a different, timeline like several

949
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,719
things don't happen, right like it just it's everything pivots

950
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,559
on that on that, moment and LIKE i, THINK i

951
00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:08,599
mean up UNTIL i mean even even though as recently

952
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:10,199
as like a few months, ago you might have, said,

953
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:11,639
LIKE i don't, KNOW i Think Donovan mitchell is better

954
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:14,760
Than Jalen. Brunson, right that was the real. Discussion and

955
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:15,280
to your.

956
00:43:15,199 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 2: Point, so like the other, signs if you TRADED. Rj,

957
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,039
barrett do you then still have the assets to trade FOR.

958
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,760
Og the answer is, PROBABLY i don't, Know but if

959
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,320
you had traded a bunch of picks at that, point

960
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:25,119
you're not making up THE.

961
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: Rj barren difference with.

962
00:43:26,559 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 2: Picks, oh by the, way then the mckal bridges trade doesn't,

963
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,199
happen does The Karl Anthony towns trade?

964
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,079
Speaker 1: Even do you have enough pick actor we left over for?

965
00:43:34,159 --> 00:43:36,199
Speaker 2: THAT i think the more important one you kind of

966
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,119
alluded to this there was a very they had an

967
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:42,000
exclusive negotiating window to Get yannis over the off. SEASON

968
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:43,920
i don't think they ever had the assets to do.

969
00:43:44,039 --> 00:43:46,360
It but you fast forward to the trade. Deadline so

970
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,760
a few months, ago the number of people who were

971
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,679
one like me saying this team just doesn't have, it

972
00:43:51,199 --> 00:43:54,159
but two wanting to get rid Of Karl Anthony towns

973
00:43:54,159 --> 00:43:56,519
and mckal bridges when both of them were probably at

974
00:43:56,519 --> 00:43:59,880
the nadea of their. Value The knicks didn't Get on multiple,

975
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,079
occasions The knicks didn't like give into what might have

976
00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:07,159
felt like enough evidence that they should have moved off

977
00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:07,440
from this.

978
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 1: Core they. Didn't and so like KEEPING i view not doing.

979
00:44:11,639 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: Anything semi nuclear at the trade deadline or this past

980
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,039
offseason as almost a bigger accomplishment than The Donovan mitchell,

981
00:44:18,039 --> 00:44:19,679
stuff because you AND i sat. HERE i remember that

982
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,320
conversation immediately after saying it was good they didn't Get

983
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,679
Donovan mitchell because, one they wouldn't have been good enough

984
00:44:24,679 --> 00:44:26,760
anyway to be a contender after giving.

985
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: Up all that. Stuff but, two look at what The

986
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,800
cavs gave up for, him and that was a lot of.

987
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 2: Stuff so that to me just, feels even in, hindsight

988
00:44:34,559 --> 00:44:37,400
like it was the easier decision in real, time the

989
00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:42,159
not like giving into Oh god Like Karthy townsend McHale,

990
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:44,280
bridges or, like look at all we give For, Bridges

991
00:44:44,519 --> 00:44:45,320
look what we're Paying.

992
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 1: Towns not giving into that is the bigger.

993
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,599
Speaker 2: Deal and so, yes it tastes takes being, bold risky

994
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,679
acting when it's uncomfortable to act but we do sometimes

995
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,440
need to, celebrate, like, no the restraint, Matter like this

996
00:44:57,559 --> 00:44:59,400
group doesn't get a chance to cole ace into one

997
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,400
of the most minute teams in postseason history if they're not.

998
00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:06,840
Together and The, knicks to their, credit Very unknicks like

999
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,760
but and, look they took other. Risks they decided we're

1000
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,679
gonna change the coach rather than the. Corps that's NOT i,

1001
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,840
get that's an easier decision to. Make but if you

1002
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,480
don't have the next coach lined, up or if or

1003
00:45:16,519 --> 00:45:18,360
if you even get through half the season and it's,

1004
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,320
well he doesn't seem to be relating To Karl Anthony

1005
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,679
towns that well these are So i'm more like celebrating

1006
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,000
sometimes the moves not made or just as important as

1007
00:45:26,039 --> 00:45:26,440
the moves that.

1008
00:45:26,519 --> 00:45:29,079
Speaker 3: Were, yeah, WELL i think you could just say that

1009
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,559
it's pretty clear that an element of what made The

1010
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:36,519
knicks better than everybody else this year ultimately was, that,

1011
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,719
like at the very, least everybody kind of understood what

1012
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,119
was expected of, them and now roles, changed like kat

1013
00:45:42,199 --> 00:45:43,719
had to do a lot of different stuff for a,

1014
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,320
while and so Did. Brunson but LIKE i, GET i

1015
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,960
guess in some ways The knick's restraint was just a

1016
00:45:51,199 --> 00:45:54,719
bet on continuity, matters and like keeping a team together

1017
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,840
for a while, Matters like if you're gonna say The

1018
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,320
spurs were inexperienced and you, know didn't know what to

1019
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,119
do to stop the bleeding and couldn't quite navigate some

1020
00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:06,320
of these tough exper tough, situations like you have to

1021
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,199
acknowledge that The knicks were different and maybe a lot

1022
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,440
of that was just because they have been through several series,

1023
00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:15,760
together they have had you, know heartbreak before like, That

1024
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,159
like there's something to be said for just like let's

1025
00:46:19,199 --> 00:46:22,079
hold off and see if, yep maybe maybe this team

1026
00:46:22,119 --> 00:46:24,079
doesn't look like it has it, now but like at some,

1027
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,239
point maybe the hole just does become more than the

1028
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,639
sum of the, parts because there's something special about guys

1029
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:34,159
that have like you've committed to sticking with and that empowers,

1030
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,760
them and the experience they have together empowers. THEM i don't,

1031
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,840
know it's a lot of wishy, washy non analytical, stuff

1032
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,400
but like you don't win a title without like a

1033
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,880
little faerry dust like sprinkled in there, Somewhere so like

1034
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,800
the are all those, intangibles all the magic stuff like,

1035
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,079
that all that's in there every time a team wins a,

1036
00:46:50,119 --> 00:46:51,280
title there's always that kind.

1037
00:46:51,199 --> 00:46:53,639
Speaker 2: Of thing that's gonna if if The spurs end up

1038
00:46:53,679 --> 00:46:55,400
winning it all next year and Dearon fox is on the,

1039
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,400
Roster i'm gonna circle back to this and have another

1040
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,480
victory lap of us having this discussion, like that's a

1041
00:46:59,519 --> 00:47:02,719
perfect thing sample of don't urgently rush out of this

1042
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:03,800
if you have the right.

1043
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,119
Speaker 1: Deal, now have they actually been able to get?

1044
00:47:06,159 --> 00:47:08,679
Speaker 2: You, honest there's a chance we're both probably a very

1045
00:47:08,679 --> 00:47:11,480
different discussion about. That their offseason look ahead has probably

1046
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:12,000
already been.

1047
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 3: Done, yeah, right, right, right right, right all, right.

1048
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,559
Speaker 1: Big, picture, Sir what do you got for?

1049
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 3: Us, uh let's start with depth means two different. THINGS

1050
00:47:23,639 --> 00:47:25,280
i don't know if you know, this but The spurs

1051
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,239
had the sixth man of the year In Kelton. Johnson

1052
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:34,360
dude was was that dude was mostly not helpful in

1053
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,920
the series in a series when they needed, him And

1054
00:47:37,159 --> 00:47:39,480
Luke cornette. Was we love Lou cornett as a backup.

1055
00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:41,360
Center thought he was a great and he was like

1056
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,239
he was a really good you, know he was useful

1057
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,840
during the regular, season as Was. Johnson, obviously it's just

1058
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,559
different in the playoffs and and the knicks Between Jose,

1059
00:47:51,679 --> 00:47:55,679
Alvarado landry shammittt Like Jordan clarkson showed. Up i'm Sure

1060
00:47:55,679 --> 00:47:57,639
i'm forgetting one or two guys that had their moments

1061
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:58,039
during this.

1062
00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: Run But Tyler COLLEGE Nba cup superhero doesn't Heal alvarado could.

1063
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 3: Run who's just absolutely Absolutely SO i think just it's

1064
00:48:09,559 --> 00:48:12,400
and this makes roster building tricky because it's Not i'm not, saying, like,

1065
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,239
Well Keldon johnson is without, value like obviously he. Mattered

1066
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,360
they don't win sixty games and have the seed that

1067
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,199
they have without, him, Right and like same With, cornett

1068
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,960
who had to play an increased role when When wemby

1069
00:48:24,159 --> 00:48:27,159
was out during the season in. Spurts like that stuff's.

1070
00:48:27,199 --> 00:48:30,760
Valuable BUT i just think to put a finer point on,

1071
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,960
IT i think playoff depth or like finals caliber. DEPTH

1072
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,920
i think that means guys that you can put in

1073
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:42,079
the game and they can play exactly with the exactly

1074
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:44,119
the same type of impact as you get from them

1075
00:48:44,199 --> 00:48:46,519
during the regular. Season so Like alvarado's gonna come in

1076
00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:51,239
and in the finals him playing like with batshit intensity

1077
00:48:51,519 --> 00:48:53,760
and dribbling all over and not you, know being able

1078
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,000
to do all that stuff like that's the same you,

1079
00:48:56,079 --> 00:48:58,440
know that's the same thing he. Does Landry shammitt being

1080
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,360
a good enough defender that can run hot and can

1081
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,119
make shots, like that's the Same Keldon. Johnson driving straight

1082
00:49:05,159 --> 00:49:07,639
into traffic doesn't work great when the game plans ready

1083
00:49:07,679 --> 00:49:09,480
for you and there's more size and there's better you

1084
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:11,760
know WHAT i. Mean like it's, there there's two different

1085
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,159
kinds of, depth AND i think these finals really highlighted.

1086
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,559
Speaker 2: THAT i think also to what might even span to

1087
00:49:18,639 --> 00:49:20,840
that is you need to do a really good job

1088
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,320
of maximizing as many roster spots as, possible because it's

1089
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:25,039
not like this is.

1090
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: Depth but it was also kind of obvious.

1091
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 2: Why did they have so many big like why Is Mason, Plumley,

1092
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,159
Beyonmbo Olynic cornette And wemby.

1093
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,199
Speaker 1: All on this? Roster like that's just you have, to

1094
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,400
LIKE i feel, like redistribute your death.

1095
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,599
Speaker 3: Better than the spurs, ultimately especially When Harrison barnes is

1096
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:41,719
already your adult in the room like, that you don't

1097
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,320
need three other dudes like that are there because they're

1098
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,960
good locker room, presences, right were you just that paranoid

1099
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,360
about Losing wemby and one even if like even if

1100
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,039
you were which of those players are like, You you're done.

1101
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:55,400
Anyway it doesn't like just because you Have plumbly And.

1102
00:49:55,559 --> 00:49:59,000
Byombo it's not, like well we're good, News we're gonna

1103
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,960
we're gonna, throw gonna take a shotgun approach at. This

1104
00:50:02,119 --> 00:50:03,880
we've got. Enough that's just doesn't.

1105
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,599
Speaker 1: Matter that's a good. ONE i have.

1106
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 2: One so NOW i think we get into, like, okay

1107
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,599
looking at how that dealt depth is like built or

1108
00:50:11,639 --> 00:50:14,920
what you're reeling it to And i'm gonna throw to

1109
00:50:15,079 --> 00:50:15,719
not make one for.

1110
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 1: This this is good podcasting right. Here but all, right

1111
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,159
SO i will fix it in. Post BUT i think

1112
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,679
that you need to look at the ideal type of

1113
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:25,480
big man just.

1114
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 2: Changing and SO i was noticing throughout the playoffs it

1115
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,599
felt as if people were pretty like down on An

1116
00:50:34,599 --> 00:50:38,920
Evan mobley Or aaron A Jared allen or look what

1117
00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:41,360
happened To Chet holmgren.

1118
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: In The Western conference final. Series at, Points i'm not

1119
00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:44,000
looking At.

1120
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 2: Karl Anthony towns and kind of, thinking is that the

1121
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,199
ideal big man in THE nba where it's you're not

1122
00:50:50,519 --> 00:50:54,440
just providing, stretch but you can play with physicality on

1123
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,079
the offensive end and you're. Not at least this is

1124
00:50:57,119 --> 00:50:59,639
why he wouldn't be the ideal big. Man can he

1125
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,880
give you enough consistently? Defensively and the answer for the

1126
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,760
playoffs With towns was. Yes and so if you're not

1127
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,199
gonna have, that BECAUSE i THINK i just described like

1128
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,000
maybe one or two players in the ENTIRE, nba you

1129
00:51:11,159 --> 00:51:14,159
need to then kind of paper over that with multiple

1130
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,639
big man, options where maybe we didn't feel it as

1131
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,599
much when AN okc team was it was clear That

1132
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,159
hungland wasn't playing. Well but when you have the you

1133
00:51:22,199 --> 00:51:25,440
can play a different you'll play different types of bigs In,

1134
00:51:25,599 --> 00:51:29,239
hartenstein in j will even Having Kenrich williams, there The

1135
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,679
spurs didn't even really have that. Luxury it was sort

1136
00:51:31,679 --> 00:51:34,880
Of wenby this unsolvable force who plays physical but like

1137
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,639
he isn't necessarily moving anybody all the, time Or Lou

1138
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,440
cornett and that's. It SO i don't think that LIKE i,

1139
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,360
yes chase the ideal big, man but the ideal big

1140
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,840
man feels like an amalgam of like three or four

1141
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,199
different types of skill like. Players and NOW i think

1142
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,039
that's gonna need to be reflected in your big man

1143
00:51:53,159 --> 00:51:55,920
rotation because there might be no telling unless you're built

1144
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,599
Around jokich Or wemby and you've just decided even if

1145
00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:01,480
it's not the best matchup for, them, like you're gonna

1146
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,880
need to figure it out from there how to optimize. Them,

1147
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:08,360
otherwise if your best player isn't your, center you probably

1148
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,679
need like three different types of centers on the roster

1149
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,840
because you're never gonna know when you might need to

1150
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,360
use all of them or can't use this one and

1151
00:52:16,639 --> 00:52:17,360
need to use the other.

1152
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,039
Speaker 3: Two, YEAH i think that's, Right and it used used

1153
00:52:20,039 --> 00:52:22,119
to be there were two. Kinds you needed your switchable

1154
00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:25,960
five that you, know Your draymond and or you needed

1155
00:52:26,079 --> 00:52:29,559
your just bruiser right, like and that even for a,

1156
00:52:29,599 --> 00:52:31,840
minute like nobody even needed the bruiser. Anymore BUT i

1157
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,159
think the return of offensive rebounding and just the way

1158
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,039
teams can scheme NOW i think you probably need that,

1159
00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:39,239
too unless you have A cat that can be all those?

1160
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:39,760
Things is?

1161
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,079
Speaker 1: It cat being the ideal big man is such just

1162
00:52:43,159 --> 00:52:44,079
a bizarre thing.

1163
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,119
Speaker 3: To do when you really do step, Back, like one

1164
00:52:47,199 --> 00:52:49,440
of the takeaways from this run is Like cat is

1165
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,599
really good at like a lot of, things and we

1166
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,519
spent most of his career just fixated on the like

1167
00:52:56,599 --> 00:52:59,239
the dumb fouls and like that all, happened like there

1168
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,559
were he did do all that, stuff like all the.

1169
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 1: Bats three of the final games in foul.

1170
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,639
Speaker 3: Troubles, yeah, right like that's all, real but like we

1171
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,159
got to zoom out and just conceee, that like that guy.

1172
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,559
Work Like, okay he's the greatest shooting big of all.

1173
00:53:12,599 --> 00:53:14,960
Time like his three point shooting didn't mean shit in

1174
00:53:15,039 --> 00:53:17,920
the in this playoff, run like it, did like it didn't.

1175
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,039
Matter what mattered was, Like, oh turns out he can

1176
00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:23,559
Guard wemby and turns out you can run an offense

1177
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:25,639
through him for several series in a. Row and turns

1178
00:53:25,679 --> 00:53:28,360
out like he can drive Past wemby and. Finish there's

1179
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,119
like three guys On earth that can do. That like

1180
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,159
just that his talent level is off the charts and

1181
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,159
and LIKE i don't, KNOW i mean he he he

1182
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,559
played out of his. Mind. Right if you, said, man

1183
00:53:38,599 --> 00:53:40,280
The knicks won the, title cat played out of his,

1184
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,199
mind and you told that to someone that didn't watch,

1185
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,400
it that person would assume he made eight threes a

1186
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,320
game or something like, that, Right and like you would

1187
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,199
never in a million years imagine that the stuff he

1188
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,320
did specifically was what it, was you, know like this

1189
00:53:55,639 --> 00:53:57,800
was of all the players on the team like, that,

1190
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,760
DUDE i don't know he like apologies aren't in, order

1191
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:03,960
but like maybe there is some LIKE i wasn't quite

1192
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:05,679
familiar with your game that needs to be.

1193
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,119
Speaker 2: Extended, RIGHT i think you could make the case that

1194
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,400
he undermined more narratives Than John brunson, Did.

1195
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 3: Right, YEAH i think that's true because you would never

1196
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,000
count on him to do exactly what he, did especially

1197
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:23,159
in the finals and even before. That pretty. Amazing all,

1198
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,400
Right i'll throw one out. Here THIS i think is

1199
00:54:25,519 --> 00:54:28,239
probably more we're really zoomed, out so this is like

1200
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,320
maybe playoff wide Because i'll Just i'll just SAY i

1201
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,000
THINK i think it's it's more clear to me than

1202
00:54:34,039 --> 00:54:37,480
ever that there is a threshold level of length and

1203
00:54:37,519 --> 00:54:40,599
athleticism that you must clear in order to be considered

1204
00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:44,840
like a realistic title threat The. Knicks you might not

1205
00:54:45,079 --> 00:54:49,400
think fit the bill there because Like brunson's neither long

1206
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,559
nor particularly, athletic but like still real hard to guard

1207
00:54:52,639 --> 00:54:55,760
and moves, great but like between og and bridges and

1208
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,440
cat even and even heart like can play up like

1209
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:01,800
that was a, Enough but you look at the teams

1210
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,320
like The spurs and The, thunder AND i mean even

1211
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,800
throw The wolves in there, too but compare the nuh,

1212
00:55:08,119 --> 00:55:10,039
well like that's The nuggets are kind of one of

1213
00:55:10,079 --> 00:55:11,880
those right where it's like if you don't Have watson

1214
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,360
and you don't Have Aaron, gordon suddenly you're looking pretty,

1215
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,800
slow and suddenly you're looking pretty overmatched against like more athletic.

1216
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:22,400
Teams SO i do think one of the real takeaways

1217
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:25,079
we already harped on it is like the continuity and

1218
00:55:25,199 --> 00:55:29,079
the variability of like what you can ask STAR x

1219
00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:31,320
to do from series to series and games a game

1220
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,519
like that. Stuff, well, experience all that stuff, matters but

1221
00:55:34,199 --> 00:55:37,719
the way the game is played, now like you just

1222
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,360
have to have like a decent amount of youth and

1223
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,880
athleticism and stamina and all that. STUFF i just don't

1224
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,280
think you're ever gonna see like The knicks are not

1225
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,719
an old team, Really like they're. Not it's not a

1226
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:50,719
bunch of like thirty four year olds that figured it.

1227
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,599
Out it's not like the ninety Six bulls or, something

1228
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,079
or any of ninety Eight bouls for that, matter or

1229
00:55:55,079 --> 00:55:58,679
even like the twenty Two. Warriors you you are gonna

1230
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,079
have to have like some get up and down some

1231
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,239
like we can pressure ninety four, feet we can get

1232
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,800
to the basket in two, dribbles like you need those.

1233
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:08,880
GUYS i THINK i think the game has changed enough

1234
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,480
to where you can't just get by on guile and

1235
00:56:12,599 --> 00:56:14,400
experience and all that. Stuff there has to be some

1236
00:56:14,679 --> 00:56:17,880
basic level of we have real. ATHLETES i don't know

1237
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,719
that felt like a revelation to. Me maybe it doesn't

1238
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:20,719
sound like one AS i say.

1239
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 2: It, NO i THINK i think you're right because even

1240
00:56:23,159 --> 00:56:25,079
in The, knicks not that they're a young, team But

1241
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,719
Josh hart And Colon Anthony town's are the only rotation

1242
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,679
players that are over the age of thirty And Jalen

1243
00:56:30,679 --> 00:56:33,320
clarkson was the only player in the quote unquote rotation

1244
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:34,719
that was over the age of thirty.

1245
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:36,760
Speaker 1: Three SO i think there's something to that for.

1246
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 2: Sure and you could mention the youth aspect that didn't

1247
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,800
we just talk, about or maybe we'll talk about the

1248
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,440
importance of, experience but it's it's a blend of, everything

1249
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,320
and SO i would agree with, you. ESPECIALLY i think

1250
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,199
the thing for me, is if you're gonna look at

1251
00:56:48,199 --> 00:56:50,400
some of the defenses you're, facing to face the full court,

1252
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:52,599
defenses or the number of times that you're gonna like

1253
00:56:52,679 --> 00:56:54,719
switch or being these like try and do you know

1254
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,239
pre switching or peel switching to derail certain actions that

1255
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:02,159
like the athleticism at all is incredibly. Important and like

1256
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,679
to harken back to what we're talking, about where maybe

1257
00:57:04,679 --> 00:57:06,480
if you don't have the ideal type of big, man

1258
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,039
then how you Know jokic is your? Five how important

1259
00:57:10,079 --> 00:57:12,000
is it to just surround him with athleticism that can

1260
00:57:12,039 --> 00:57:14,480
cover around the basket for, him just as one.

1261
00:57:14,519 --> 00:57:17,719
Speaker 3: Example, Right, yeah it might just be like you don't

1262
00:57:17,719 --> 00:57:21,719
necessarily need all five to be you, know decathletes or.

1263
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,039
Whatever but it's like if you're gonna you need like

1264
00:57:24,119 --> 00:57:26,239
a cumulative there's like A i don't, know if you're

1265
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,360
like pouring the team's athleticism into a into a measuring,

1266
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:33,000
cup it's got to hit a certain level collectively or

1267
00:57:33,159 --> 00:57:34,960
you're just you Don't you're gonna have a hard.

1268
00:57:35,039 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: Time the other.

1269
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:38,679
Speaker 2: ONE i think this is always this has been on

1270
00:57:38,719 --> 00:57:40,719
the radar for a, while but it does feel as

1271
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,480
if the threshold for minimizing weaknesses is increasing as, well

1272
00:57:44,679 --> 00:57:47,559
and so it's we're beyond just, oh this guy can't,

1273
00:57:47,559 --> 00:57:50,880
shoot so he can't, play or this guy can't, defend

1274
00:57:51,199 --> 00:57:53,559
so he can't. Play we saw and maybe this says

1275
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:55,800
more about matchups or it speaks to having the depth

1276
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:56,960
to be able to play around with your.

1277
00:57:57,039 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: Rotations but we saw The Knicks paul mckail bridges in crunch.

1278
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 2: Time we saw them Pull josh hart before all of a,

1279
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,000
sudden when you look at the, Spurs Keldon johnson like

1280
00:58:06,119 --> 00:58:09,159
forget About Lou cornett or forget About Harrison. Morris didn't

1281
00:58:09,159 --> 00:58:12,440
look Like Kelden johnson should necessarily be in. There Elsewhere Lou,

1282
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:15,199
Dort Isaiah. Hartenstein and so it feels as if the

1283
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:20,119
bar for what constitute constitutes a weak link has. Raised and,

1284
00:58:20,199 --> 00:58:21,800
yes it's a lot about, matchups but that kind of

1285
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:23,639
bleeds into it's, like, well you need to build your

1286
00:58:23,679 --> 00:58:26,280
team in the image of just how many players can

1287
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,119
we have with this few holes as, possible and we're

1288
00:58:29,159 --> 00:58:32,159
not at the star like your top three player level.

1289
00:58:32,199 --> 00:58:35,000
Anymore it's, like, no like spots like four through eight

1290
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,480
in the rotation also need to mirror this as.

1291
00:58:37,519 --> 00:58:41,559
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, NO i think that's. Right it's definitely this

1292
00:58:41,719 --> 00:58:45,159
is probably like a decade or so since LIKE i

1293
00:58:45,239 --> 00:58:47,719
THINK i remember hearing at, first Like Bob myers said

1294
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,719
at one. Time it's just And i'll get it, wrong

1295
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:53,679
but it was basically, like you to really be a

1296
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:58,239
serious championship, threat you sort of can't have any guys, that,

1297
00:58:58,599 --> 00:59:01,880
oh there's an obvious thing that that will force that

1298
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,159
will result in them being played off the. Floor like

1299
00:59:04,239 --> 00:59:06,320
you just you can't be a guy that like takes

1300
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,079
something critical off the table because every, defense like defense

1301
00:59:09,159 --> 00:59:11,199
will just figure that. Out our offenses will figure that.

1302
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,440
Out so, yeah LIKE i, MEAN i, THINK i think

1303
00:59:14,519 --> 00:59:16,559
what we're circling with a lot of these points is

1304
00:59:16,679 --> 00:59:21,440
just like you need everything to win a championship, year including,

1305
00:59:21,519 --> 00:59:24,920
luck including, luck, right, yeah like if you've you've You're

1306
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,639
Malcolm brognen thing like if he if he doesn't, retire

1307
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,800
is he on this team and is somebody that's critical

1308
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,280
not like maybe.

1309
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,199
Speaker 1: And it's even just you look at what happens on the.

1310
00:59:33,239 --> 00:59:36,119
Speaker 2: Floor The knicks finished a plus one fifty from beyond

1311
00:59:36,159 --> 00:59:38,280
the arc opponent SHOT i think under thirty two percent

1312
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,480
from three against them in the. Playoffs you could say

1313
00:59:40,519 --> 00:59:42,519
what you want about The knicks. Defense this is coming

1314
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:45,280
from A knicks. Fan they got so lucky that that

1315
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:45,880
something like that.

1316
00:59:46,039 --> 00:59:49,639
Speaker 3: Happened what are we talking about If Jalen brunson misses

1317
00:59:50,199 --> 00:59:53,639
the three at the end of game four five degrees

1318
00:59:53,719 --> 00:59:56,559
in one direction or another and not exactly to the

1319
00:59:56,599 --> 01:00:00,199
spot Where og gets, it, Right, like that's just be

1320
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,960
where are we who? Knows who knows what happens?

1321
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,559
Speaker 2: From they were also on the other, end like they

1322
01:00:05,679 --> 01:00:07,760
experienced the other end of this last year With game

1323
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,079
one against The pacers and the conference finals as.

1324
01:00:10,119 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 3: Well, right, yeah we. CANNOT i MEAN i would love.

1325
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:16,360
To if no one will ever figure this, OUT i

1326
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,480
think it's it's not, quantifiable but like luck is a

1327
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:25,280
pretty clearly non zero contributor to basically every title. TEAM i,

1328
01:00:25,519 --> 01:00:28,519
mean like even though The, knicks just like, you but,

1329
01:00:28,719 --> 01:00:32,440
whatever they had the most dominant twelve, game, thirteen fourteen

1330
01:00:32,519 --> 01:00:35,079
fifteen game streak of of all of all, day.

1331
01:00:35,159 --> 01:00:37,559
Speaker 1: But like they had the highest point differential and, yeah,

1332
01:00:37,559 --> 01:00:38,039
official like.

1333
01:00:38,039 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 3: That's JUST i don't know and yet and yet IF

1334
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,719
og doesn't get if the ball bounces three inches, Higher

1335
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,280
og doesn't get it and tip it in and just

1336
01:00:47,559 --> 01:00:48,880
turn the series into something very.

1337
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:50,719
Speaker 1: Different so you And hi are preview In game, six,

1338
01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:53,800
right now, right like you we're Doing, yeah AND i.

1339
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 3: Mean there have been like If wemby doesn't have a,

1340
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,079
brain fart and throw it Off Steph castle's back at

1341
01:00:58,119 --> 01:00:59,679
the end of what was a game? Two like it

1342
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:03,760
just everyone well this series in, particular every single game

1343
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,280
had like a couple hinge moments where it could have

1344
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:07,719
gone either.

1345
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: Way the series was so.

1346
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 2: Epic you love having the fact you have so many

1347
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,559
what if moments in in. Miniature just this five game

1348
01:01:15,639 --> 01:01:16,159
pocket of the.

1349
01:01:16,199 --> 01:01:17,239
Speaker 1: Series is, incredible.

1350
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 3: Unbelievable let's keep running down the list. HERE i. CAN'T

1351
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,079
i think this is probably one that that you, generated

1352
01:01:23,079 --> 01:01:26,000
but we we should discuss, it like there's more than

1353
01:01:26,039 --> 01:01:29,519
one way to build a championship. Team, uh just you

1354
01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:34,039
look at The. Spurs, yeah, NO i know every you

1355
01:01:34,119 --> 01:01:37,800
know The spurs build this through the. Draft that that's

1356
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,880
just what it. Is they they and it sort of

1357
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,400
well they traded For, Fox, yeah but As fox there

1358
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,079
if they don't Draft wemby almost definitely not like it

1359
01:01:46,239 --> 01:01:49,360
just there's the the the core of this roster is

1360
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,400
you Drafted, wemby you Drafted, castle you Drafted, harper and

1361
01:01:53,679 --> 01:01:55,639
those are all top what was the top four?

1362
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: Packs, yeah, Picks.

1363
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,679
Speaker 3: And, yeah there's luck involved in that, too by the,

1364
01:02:01,719 --> 01:02:04,280
way because the ping pong balls bounced the way that

1365
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:07,599
they did to enable some of. Those but there's, that

1366
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,719
and then there's The knicks that we've gone, through we've

1367
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,360
on this pod and many. Before it's like free agency

1368
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,960
played a massive factor huge, trades just like cap. Management

1369
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,800
there's all this other stuff like What, Mitchell robinson And

1370
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:23,679
Deuce are those the Only knicks picks that really mattered

1371
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,480
in this in this? Series Like i'm trying to think

1372
01:02:26,519 --> 01:02:27,239
who else did?

1373
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 1: They?

1374
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,519
Speaker 3: Yeah did they? EVEN i mean to have played at,

1375
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:33,800
all like to have played a significant. ROLE i, mean

1376
01:02:34,719 --> 01:02:39,000
there's just so, okay that's, obvious. Right these are two

1377
01:02:39,079 --> 01:02:42,719
different teams that were built very very. DIFFERENTLY i think

1378
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,159
we have worried a little bit, about like, well with

1379
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,519
lottery reform and with the aprons and, stuff and with

1380
01:02:48,599 --> 01:02:52,039
free agency just kind of going away like what are

1381
01:02:52,079 --> 01:02:55,159
the options gonna? Be AND i GUESS i don't, know

1382
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,599
do you think it's encouraging, that, like, well at least

1383
01:02:57,639 --> 01:02:59,760
you've got two very recent examples of, like well there's

1384
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,039
clearly not just one way to do, this you, Know

1385
01:03:02,199 --> 01:03:04,679
is that encouraging or is it just, like, well these

1386
01:03:04,719 --> 01:03:09,960
are both just such sort of, lucky you, know happenstance

1387
01:03:10,079 --> 01:03:12,599
kinds of things that maybe there's not a model.

1388
01:03:12,679 --> 01:03:15,199
Speaker 1: HERE i think it should.

1389
01:03:15,239 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 2: Be it could be discouraging because you can look at

1390
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,199
it this. Way New york is The knicks and are

1391
01:03:20,239 --> 01:03:22,199
able to take risks that other teams can't be more

1392
01:03:22,239 --> 01:03:24,559
desirable in ways that, like it's just the, market it's.

1393
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: That's how it.

1394
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,119
Speaker 2: Is The, spurs then we're talking about lottery reform where

1395
01:03:28,119 --> 01:03:30,800
you're never gonna have three consecutive top five picks on

1396
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:31,039
the same.

1397
01:03:31,119 --> 01:03:33,519
Speaker 1: Roster, ever at LEAST i don't think ever. Again and

1398
01:03:33,599 --> 01:03:34,199
so that could be.

1399
01:03:34,239 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 2: Discouraging but if The spurs end of that is, DISCOURAGING

1400
01:03:37,519 --> 01:03:40,760
i do think The knicks's end is encouraging Because Jalen

1401
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,400
brunson is the only player that they didn't trade for

1402
01:03:44,599 --> 01:03:44,880
and then.

1403
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: Keep and we've seen that teams if they like remember

1404
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:48,960
the Thunder trader For Paul.

1405
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,599
Speaker 2: George they did wind up retrading him two years, later

1406
01:03:51,679 --> 01:03:55,159
but they got him to sign another. Contract The cavaliers

1407
01:03:55,199 --> 01:03:58,199
were not On Donovan mitchell's perceived list of trade. DESTINATIONS

1408
01:03:58,199 --> 01:04:00,800
a half decade, later we're talking about whether they should

1409
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,280
be the team offering him an. Extension SO i think

1410
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:05,320
it's encouraging in the sense that if you're willing to

1411
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,960
take risks and acquire, players that are you, know in

1412
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,280
The knicks's, case everyone with the exception of Og An,

1413
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,559
andobe wasn't speeding towards free. Agency but there was even

1414
01:04:14,599 --> 01:04:16,920
with og do you remember there was that alliance with

1415
01:04:17,039 --> 01:04:20,199
The clippers The sixers excuse, me real or not that

1416
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,679
definitely got him over the two hundred million dollar threshold

1417
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:24,519
with The, knicks or maybe got him that fifth. Year

1418
01:04:25,119 --> 01:04:28,280
SO i find that more encouraging because it's. Easy it's The,

1419
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:30,840
knicks SO i think it's easy to, say, well you

1420
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,079
can't hold they can't be a standard for the rest

1421
01:04:33,079 --> 01:04:34,920
of THE. Nba AND i agree to some extent if

1422
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,599
they were built entirely off of one free agency or

1423
01:04:38,599 --> 01:04:41,360
two acquiring guys in contract. Years but you know, what

1424
01:04:42,239 --> 01:04:44,400
the contract year thing might even be outmoded at this.

1425
01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:48,039
Point who eaves in free agency anymore unless you apparently

1426
01:04:48,039 --> 01:04:48,360
play for The.

1427
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: Mavericks LIKE i JUST.

1428
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,119
Speaker 2: I think that that should be, encouraging is that you

1429
01:04:54,199 --> 01:04:56,039
can just look at it and, say if you're willing to,

1430
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:58,239
yes it might not always be, easy and you do

1431
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:00,840
have to get lucky in a lot instances or make

1432
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,679
a series of. Moves is not gonna happen. Overnight BUT

1433
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,360
i think not any team could have built this roster

1434
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:09,920
because of The jaallen brunts en off at. All but

1435
01:05:10,039 --> 01:05:11,920
you look at how they filled out the roster after of.

1436
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,239
Him any other team could have done that in THE

1437
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:18,039
nba without being. Terrible SO i think that's. Encouraging, yeah

1438
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:22,320
the let's get to the superstar trend thing THAT i might.

1439
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,119
Be so we kind of alluded to this. BEFORE i

1440
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:29,280
don't think when we're talking about rookie scale extensions or

1441
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:32,360
maybe even that when you're looking At Anthony edwards's next,

1442
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,400
contract we're gonna start seeing players take. Less but when

1443
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,480
you're getting to the stage of your career like A

1444
01:05:38,599 --> 01:05:43,159
yannis extension eligible this, summer Like Donovan mitchell extension eligible this,

1445
01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:46,840
summer even Like Nikola, JOKIC i think there's a binary

1446
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,519
choice for you now is do you want to sign

1447
01:05:50,599 --> 01:05:52,400
for the full max and trust that the front office

1448
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,679
will figure it out while knowing they will never just

1449
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,880
spend interminally into the second apron or? Two are you

1450
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,519
willing to take less Where In Jalen brunson's, CASE i

1451
01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:03,840
think the when you look at the, years the player,

1452
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,039
options how much did he actually save the knickses up

1453
01:06:06,079 --> 01:06:08,480
in the. Air it's about twelve plus million dollars a,

1454
01:06:08,599 --> 01:06:11,519
year which is close to the mid level? Exception so

1455
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,480
are you willing to do something like? That AND i

1456
01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:18,239
agree with you that it feels icky to put the

1457
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,639
onus on the. Players WHAT i will say is the

1458
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,760
current salary cap has and will always be collectively. Bargained

1459
01:06:25,239 --> 01:06:28,360
AND i do think now with the second, apron and

1460
01:06:28,639 --> 01:06:31,480
not even the tax payments associated with, it but just

1461
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:35,360
the team building, restrictions frozen draft, picks can't aggregate, salaries

1462
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,480
can't take back more money than you, receive so, on

1463
01:06:37,719 --> 01:06:39,760
not having access to the mid level, exception so on

1464
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:43,679
and so. Forth those stuff that's in place now it

1465
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,360
was collectively. BARGAINED i think you get to a certain

1466
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:48,639
point where you do have to take a step back and, say,

1467
01:06:48,679 --> 01:06:50,800
well how DO i want to spend the latter half

1468
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,559
of my? Prime And i'm, wondering AND i might be,

1469
01:06:54,639 --> 01:06:56,199
wrong BECAUSE i thought we were going to see inflection

1470
01:06:56,280 --> 01:07:00,159
points with contract negotiations with A Daron fox or A Jaron.

1471
01:07:00,119 --> 01:07:02,039
Speaker 1: Jackson, junior and we didn't this past.

1472
01:07:02,039 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 2: Summer BUT i think we're really gonna get to a

1473
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,760
point where this is maybe more, common or another way

1474
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,039
it might be saying this of everyone talking about how

1475
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:12,199
the three max model is, DEAD i feel like we're

1476
01:07:12,199 --> 01:07:16,480
almost approaching a point where the two veteran max model is. Dead,

1477
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,159
rookie the fun max is, okay it's a little twenty

1478
01:07:19,159 --> 01:07:20,760
five percent of the salary cap a little bit. Different

1479
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:23,000
but you look at The knicks and just that they

1480
01:07:23,039 --> 01:07:26,360
were made possible because their best, player which kind of

1481
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:28,760
underminds my point about any team could have built, them

1482
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:30,199
any team could have gotten those other.

1483
01:07:30,239 --> 01:07:31,039
Speaker 1: Players it was my.

1484
01:07:31,119 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 2: Point But jumpers was your third highest paid player this.

1485
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,119
Year that's, LIKE i don't think it needs to be that,

1486
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,719
Stark but could you have would you have been comfortable

1487
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:42,639
trading For Karl Anthony towns not knowing, that or would

1488
01:07:42,639 --> 01:07:45,480
you be comfortable going out five years on The ogananobe

1489
01:07:45,559 --> 01:07:48,679
deal not knowing. THAT i think this is something that's

1490
01:07:48,679 --> 01:07:50,519
at least going to become more of Not, oh, Look

1491
01:07:50,639 --> 01:07:52,719
lebron took one million lesson then talked about it for

1492
01:07:52,719 --> 01:07:55,519
the next ten. YEARS i think there's it might take

1493
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:57,719
a larger concession on the part of the, players, which

1494
01:07:57,960 --> 01:07:59,719
by the, WAY i don't think is right in the.

1495
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,840
Back but that's THE cba at The Players' Union Players

1496
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:04,519
association collectively, Barking.

1497
01:08:04,559 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 3: Yeah that's a that's a good. POINT I SO i

1498
01:08:08,519 --> 01:08:13,320
remember When kobe. Signed this must have been like twenty

1499
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,720
ten or twenty eleven or something somewhere around. There it

1500
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,159
was like two years and the max at the time

1501
01:08:19,279 --> 01:08:21,439
was like forty eight million, dollars which is hilarious to

1502
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,520
think about right, Now and AND i remember it. Was

1503
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,399
it was at a point WHERE i wasn't thinking about

1504
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:31,520
it from the PERSPECTIVE i do now of LIKE i

1505
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,079
oversimplified it BECAUSE i was annoyed by all the myth

1506
01:08:34,119 --> 01:08:36,760
making associated With, kobe and it was like all he

1507
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:38,840
cares about is. Winning all he cares about is. Winning, well,

1508
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:40,920
no that's not, true because if that were the, case

1509
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:42,600
then he would have taken way less so The lakers

1510
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,319
could build a better team around. Him and like that

1511
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,640
is just still. True that is just still. True where, like,

1512
01:08:49,119 --> 01:08:52,520
yes it's it is the owner's, money and like there

1513
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,920
are ways to spend whatever you want up to a certain,

1514
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:57,840
point but it comes it's just like you don't get

1515
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,920
to say ALL i want to do is win and

1516
01:09:01,039 --> 01:09:03,319
then SAY i will not take less than the max

1517
01:09:03,359 --> 01:09:05,520
because that's my market. Value like you just sort of

1518
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,119
cannot have it both ways as a. Player AND i

1519
01:09:08,199 --> 01:09:12,399
Think i'm skeptical that even with all the all the

1520
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:16,239
sort of driving forces you, mentioned that we're gonna see

1521
01:09:16,239 --> 01:09:19,319
the bruntson scenario become anything close to a norm or

1522
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:23,279
even be repeated at. All like take Like Steph curry

1523
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:26,119
is a good, Example LIKE i don't think he's taking

1524
01:09:26,199 --> 01:09:28,319
less than the max and if he wants to play

1525
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:32,039
the relevant basketball that that The warriors claim to like

1526
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,079
shouldn't he should like shouldn't shouldn't and him, too considering

1527
01:09:36,119 --> 01:09:38,000
the money he's made to this, point, which by the,

1528
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:40,239
way like that's what Makes brunson even more incredible that

1529
01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:42,680
dude had never been, maxed you, know and he and

1530
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,399
he's and he it wasn't, like Well i've made, yes

1531
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:47,520
he he he was gonna be comfortable no matter what

1532
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:49,520
after the first deal he signed with The, knicks but

1533
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,319
like he never he never made like true max money

1534
01:09:53,359 --> 01:09:56,199
and then was Like i'm, good Now i'll take. Less

1535
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:01,079
someone Like steph is you know this generational wealth many times,

1536
01:10:01,119 --> 01:10:03,760
over AND i think he's getting the max and just

1537
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:05,359
like that would be one you point to is, like,

1538
01:10:05,399 --> 01:10:07,279
well if this is a, trend then let's let's see.

1539
01:10:07,319 --> 01:10:09,560
IT i Just i'm Maybe i'm just more. CYNICAL i don't,

1540
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:11,920
KNOW i KNOW i think continue, WELL i.

1541
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:13,199
Speaker 1: Don't first of, all players probably.

1542
01:10:13,199 --> 01:10:15,520
Speaker 2: Don't steph probably feels like he shouldn't take, less especially when,

1543
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,239
him of all, people that first extension he signed ended

1544
01:10:18,319 --> 01:10:20,079
up and that was taken because the end that was.

1545
01:10:20,119 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 3: The market rate for. HIM i WILL i. DIDN'T i

1546
01:10:22,199 --> 01:10:25,079
famously was, LIKE i don't know about this. One we signed.

1547
01:10:25,119 --> 01:10:27,279
Speaker 2: It my followupoints that though two would be could it

1548
01:10:27,399 --> 01:10:29,640
be more about the organization might need to sell him on.

1549
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:32,439
It in The warriors, case they've kind of played like

1550
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:35,159
even before the twenty two title it like ever Since

1551
01:10:35,239 --> 01:10:38,199
Kevin durant, left it's been we're hedging and trying to

1552
01:10:38,239 --> 01:10:39,199
stay in the middle of these two.

1553
01:10:39,239 --> 01:10:41,039
Speaker 1: Times we're not going all in on any one or.

1554
01:10:41,079 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 2: Anything and if You're, steph why would you if For

1555
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:48,479
brunton more, recently it's easier for him to well and

1556
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:50,760
want his dad's a, coach His godfather is like running The,

1557
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:52,960
Knicks like those are ties you can't quantify for.

1558
01:10:53,039 --> 01:10:55,199
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah but look at what.

1559
01:10:55,239 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 2: The knicks have, done like you can trust, That, okay

1560
01:10:58,039 --> 01:11:00,600
they're going To maybe you could trust The warriors will

1561
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,319
spend on the talent they already. Have do you trust

1562
01:11:02,399 --> 01:11:04,760
they're gonna go out and make the swings the risk

1563
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:06,680
on the right town And steph's, case the answer is.

1564
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:08,319
No and this might be by the Way steph has four,

1565
01:11:08,399 --> 01:11:11,199
titles and even If yokich or A yiannis each have a,

1566
01:11:11,279 --> 01:11:16,039
title this might be more geared towards A Donovan mitchell

1567
01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:17,720
type where it's like they're on the fringes of do

1568
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:19,560
you think that they should be the the number one?

1569
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:22,439
Option The Jalen browns like that he already has a,

1570
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,279
title of, course like those types of players who maybe

1571
01:11:25,319 --> 01:11:26,880
don't have a, ring maybe it's been a while since

1572
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:29,159
they last won, one or EVEN i would point To

1573
01:11:29,199 --> 01:11:30,319
giannis Or joki is a good.

1574
01:11:30,319 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 1: Example right now you are Three janni's, case half a

1575
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:34,960
decade removed from winning a.

1576
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,199
Speaker 2: Title if you want more than, one that's a decision

1577
01:11:37,239 --> 01:11:39,159
you need to, make SO i you could end. UP

1578
01:11:39,199 --> 01:11:41,800
i think your stance is probably the safer. One but

1579
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,439
Then i'm also kind of wondering until the NEXT cpa is,

1580
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,199
negotiated even if it, is if these sort of team

1581
01:11:48,239 --> 01:11:50,720
building restrictions and thresholds are going to remain in, place

1582
01:11:51,039 --> 01:11:53,800
we're gonna continue to SEE i, think just a bunch of,

1583
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:55,680
parody whereas we've now had eight different.

1584
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,199
Speaker 1: Champions and this IS i didn't throw this in the,

1585
01:11:58,239 --> 01:11:59,159
outline BUT i saw some of the.

1586
01:11:59,199 --> 01:12:02,319
Speaker 2: Discourse you like that there are some people lamenting the

1587
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:04,520
lack of a dynasty right now to hate and other

1588
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,039
people thinking this is, beautiful which IS i find that

1589
01:12:07,079 --> 01:12:09,520
a legitimate talking point in the sense THAT i understand

1590
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:10,159
both sides of.

1591
01:12:10,199 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 3: It, YEAH i think like my formative basketball experiences were

1592
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:19,479
involved dynasties and, that and like so it's hard to be, like,

1593
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,640
well is that objectively better or is that just sort

1594
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:25,159
of WHAT i like am comfortable, with like the the Two,

1595
01:12:25,239 --> 01:12:27,039
bulls Three, peats and EVEN i don't, know like the

1596
01:12:27,239 --> 01:12:30,680
early two Thousands, lakers and like it just, anecdotally it

1597
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:34,319
felt like good teams were good for a little, longer you,

1598
01:12:34,399 --> 01:12:37,359
know go even going back a decade, ago or it's

1599
01:12:37,399 --> 01:12:39,640
like The spurs were just there all the, time and you,

1600
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:42,760
know The heat obviously had had a longer run and

1601
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:46,199
The warriors are. There of, Course i'm not mad at,

1602
01:12:46,239 --> 01:12:49,600
it THOUGH i. DON'T i DON'T i see the appeal of.

1603
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,840
PARODY i THINK i do think there's an. ARGUMENT i

1604
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:56,479
don't know if, everybody anybody ever settled the argument of,

1605
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,199
like is it better for the league to have a

1606
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:02,359
goalie that needs to be slain or is it better

1607
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:06,399
if fifteen teams go into every season thinking, like, well

1608
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,000
maybe you, know could could we could do? It? Like

1609
01:13:09,119 --> 01:13:11,920
which which? IS i think there's there's merit to.

1610
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:12,640
Speaker 1: BOTH i.

1611
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 3: Do WHAT i do feel confident in is like the

1612
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,600
parody thing is not going. AWAY i really. DON'T i

1613
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,800
think that the way that THE cba has kind of

1614
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:25,279
laid things out, now it's just very very hard to

1615
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:29,600
stay dominant for a long. TIME i like The, CELTICS

1616
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:33,199
i guess are you, know could be right back there

1617
01:13:33,239 --> 01:13:34,760
and maybe if they win, one then you got a

1618
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:37,159
team that's won a couple in what a what is

1619
01:13:37,159 --> 01:13:40,279
it will be four? Years? Yeah so so, yeah like,

1620
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:43,279
that maybe that's as close as you get where you

1621
01:13:43,399 --> 01:13:45,439
get the one and then you're just you hang on

1622
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:47,439
and you retool a little bit and you're right back

1623
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:49,439
there with like some of the same core in in

1624
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,640
three or four. Years but LIKE i, JUST i, MEAN

1625
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:56,199
i don't see the team that's unless it's The, SPURS i,

1626
01:13:56,239 --> 01:13:58,359
guess or maybe The thunder that's gonna run off two

1627
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:00,840
or three in a. Row but they. Don't they want.

1628
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:02,439
That they're gonna have to go through each, other so

1629
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:03,680
that's not gonna happen.

1630
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,600
Speaker 2: Either it also adds another element of it's it's just

1631
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:10,279
a different type Of first it was can you unseat this?

1632
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,159
Dynasty but it's also now it's, well who's gonna? Be

1633
01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:16,199
can anyone become a dynasty in a league that's built

1634
01:14:16,279 --> 01:14:19,960
to repress, dynasties which is another, wrinkle and it does

1635
01:14:20,039 --> 01:14:22,760
kind of the final ONE i had leads me to

1636
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,520
the why not us is officially the right. Mindset AND

1637
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,600
i say, THIS i don't really know The knicks this,

1638
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:31,720
Year like, aw they built their team was a very

1639
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,119
why not, us LIKE i guess way to get. There

1640
01:14:34,199 --> 01:14:35,960
maybe the Con Anthony town trade might be the biggest

1641
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:39,439
reflection of, that but more so The, spurs, RIGHT i

1642
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:40,640
don't know what the move was for them at the,

1643
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,000
deadline but if you're The pistons of this, year The

1644
01:14:43,119 --> 01:14:45,199
rockets of this. Year when we're sitting here talking about

1645
01:14:45,239 --> 01:14:47,520
all this parody and how long it's gonna be, There

1646
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:51,319
I'M i never gave this much much. Credence one of

1647
01:14:51,359 --> 01:14:53,520
the biggest forms of RESPECT i ever had was The

1648
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:58,439
rockets going for it during that Like Warriors Kevin durant era, yep.

1649
01:14:58,399 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 1: And LIKE i. Respected it didn't pan, out BUT i respected.

1650
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 2: It now it's you don't get to sit there and, say, like,

1651
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:05,880
well like, okay seeing The spurs are just could run

1652
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,560
the table. Forever both of those, teams they were not

1653
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:11,640
the best version of. Themselves The spurs aren't experienced enough

1654
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:14,279
yet and The thunder were banged. Up BUT i guess

1655
01:15:14,359 --> 01:15:16,920
what THAT'S i just feel like that could always be

1656
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:18,920
on the. Table you don't know what injuries are gonna shape.

1657
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:22,039
This you have to win Ninety oh my, god why

1658
01:15:22,039 --> 01:15:23,800
CAN'T i do? Math and you're going through like over

1659
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:25,800
one hundred games every. Year if you win the championship

1660
01:15:26,159 --> 01:15:30,039
or get to the finals every all this stuff could

1661
01:15:30,199 --> 01:15:31,880
just come. Up and The knicks might be an example

1662
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,520
of you might just peek at the right. Time The,

1663
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:39,239
knicks they had shown flickers and, flashes nothing like we're

1664
01:15:39,319 --> 01:15:41,359
just gonna play two months of some of the most

1665
01:15:41,399 --> 01:15:42,800
dominant basketball that you have ever.

1666
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 1: Seen SO i want to see.

1667
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 2: More you know, what if you're not on The yannis

1668
01:15:48,039 --> 01:15:50,560
trade wish, list trade For yiannish, anyway if you think

1669
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:52,000
that you're in a position to win a, title this

1670
01:15:52,119 --> 01:15:54,640
is to me is, yeah the thunder might still be,

1671
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:57,640
there but even they're going through some financial hurdles that

1672
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:00,840
they're gonna have to. Clear there's A i want to

1673
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:03,159
see more like, General maybe not if you want to

1674
01:16:03,199 --> 01:16:05,640
call it risk, taking but like there's there's no time

1675
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:07,560
like the. Present AND i think even The, spurs not

1676
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:11,039
that they aired this, year but my most reckless take

1677
01:16:11,079 --> 01:16:13,439
would be if you think that The Iron fox isn't

1678
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:16,439
the right, fit then you don't, Wait like now would

1679
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:17,880
be the time to do that because you are this

1680
01:16:18,039 --> 01:16:19,920
good Now and we could sit here and say this.

1681
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 1: Is the worst where ever gonna?

1682
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 2: Be CAN i sit here and also, say, well this

1683
01:16:23,119 --> 01:16:25,640
might be the healthiest that your youngster is ever gonna.

1684
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:28,359
Be MAYBE i hope, not But i'm this is to,

1685
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:31,359
ME i think why not? Us is LIKE i need

1686
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:33,760
that needs to be like the default mindset among team.

1687
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 3: Building, now, YEAH i think that's, right AND i, think,

1688
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,680
LIKE i don't, know it's a comfortable idea for me

1689
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:43,359
Because i'm not as good at the, like let's think

1690
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:46,239
of the transaction that's gonna improve this team as you

1691
01:16:46,319 --> 01:16:47,720
are and a lot of people. Are so it's LIKE

1692
01:16:48,359 --> 01:16:49,680
i think a lot of WHAT i said about The

1693
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:51,600
knicks last year was LIKE i, KNOW i said, this

1694
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,439
like it's really hard to get even this, good and

1695
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:57,319
so anything you do might is very likely to just

1696
01:16:57,399 --> 01:16:59,760
make you. Worse and if you can be this, good

1697
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:01,960
which is to, say a team that, LIKE i don't,

1698
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:04,600
know over a couple of, years wins two or three playoff,

1699
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:07,279
series you, know spread out over multiple, seasons like if

1700
01:17:07,279 --> 01:17:09,560
you're kind of in the mix and you can squint

1701
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:11,000
and be, like, well they could have been a conference

1702
01:17:11,079 --> 01:17:13,079
finalist if this had gone this way or this bounce

1703
01:17:13,119 --> 01:17:15,880
had gone that. Way like the goal should be to

1704
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,199
get that good and kind of stay that good for

1705
01:17:18,319 --> 01:17:20,399
as long as you, can because maybe you wait out

1706
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:22,439
teams that get, hurt or teams that fall, apart or

1707
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:24,520
teams that are hasty and blow it. Up like it

1708
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:29,319
almost makes me think like the roster building objective can't

1709
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:32,600
just be we have to be so clearly on the

1710
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:34,960
level of the thunder or the spurs or. Whatever it's,

1711
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,199
like if you can envision yourself like getting within a

1712
01:17:38,239 --> 01:17:40,880
game or two of a conference, FINAL i THINK i

1713
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:42,920
think that just should tell you. That like that all, right,

1714
01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:46,479
twet like tinker on the edges or, whatever like go

1715
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:49,399
get Your Landry shamitz and your Jse alvarado's but like

1716
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:52,199
it's really hard to be much better than. That and

1717
01:17:52,319 --> 01:17:53,920
at that point it's just you need a break and

1718
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:57,720
some luck and like you gotta run, hot and that's

1719
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:00,239
the best you can, do especially in a in a

1720
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:02,800
parody an era that's going to be defined and has

1721
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:06,359
been defined by, parody like just be pretty, good hope

1722
01:18:06,399 --> 01:18:09,399
things go your, way and don't don't get. Impatient imagine

1723
01:18:09,399 --> 01:18:10,960
if The knicks had not done, that The knicks had

1724
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:13,119
every reason to be impatient and say screw. It cat's

1725
01:18:13,199 --> 01:18:15,720
not it can't can never be the number, two or

1726
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,000
we gave up too much for. Bridges we, should you,

1727
01:18:18,079 --> 01:18:20,359
know get what we can on the way. Out it's

1728
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:22,600
just this isn't. It and they didn't do, that and

1729
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:25,000
here they are AND i will recognize.

1730
01:18:25,039 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 2: This Opens i'll say me personally up to a level

1731
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:29,199
of hypocrisy by someone who sat here and, SAID i

1732
01:18:29,239 --> 01:18:31,079
don't think The coves should go out and, trade be.

1733
01:18:31,199 --> 01:18:33,920
Honest so there's always going to be those two different

1734
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,680
ends Of but like if you believe that like your

1735
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:38,479
window is the next two to three years And giannis

1736
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:40,600
is better suited for, it then, yes that's the why

1737
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:42,279
not us? Thing BUT i mentioned more so of the

1738
01:18:42,319 --> 01:18:45,359
teams that are trying to get over the hump that

1739
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,760
made like The, pistons The spurs types like those are

1740
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:49,560
the teams where it's look and even The. PACERS i

1741
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:51,520
didn't like the zoo box trade and still, don't BUT

1742
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:54,199
i do have a respect for. It where It's tyre's

1743
01:18:54,199 --> 01:18:55,920
Halliburt i sat there said don't you want to see

1744
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:58,159
what he looks like upon return before making such a big,

1745
01:18:58,279 --> 01:19:01,720
Move and they've decided, No like it's our, contender windows open,

1746
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:04,439
Now Pascal, Siakam is this? Now Tyre's halliburton was just

1747
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:07,800
this a year and change. Ago So i'm looking forward

1748
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:10,199
to seeing whether teams maybe. OPERATE i don't want to

1749
01:19:10,199 --> 01:19:12,600
say if it's with more, urgency but more recognition of

1750
01:19:13,359 --> 01:19:15,960
we can, win like it takes if we're gonna need

1751
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,079
a few lucky breaks either. Way why not do our

1752
01:19:18,199 --> 01:19:20,079
part to not wait and, say you know, what we're young,

1753
01:19:20,159 --> 01:19:22,319
enough it's, early we'll be back. Here because, yeah you

1754
01:19:22,359 --> 01:19:25,199
know who said that the twenty Twelve thunder and they

1755
01:19:25,239 --> 01:19:26,960
were That core wasn't even back the next.

1756
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:27,760
Speaker 1: Season mm.

1757
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,479
Speaker 3: Hm and That, core by the, way was like everything

1758
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:34,000
we're saying about The, spurs like rewind a little. BIT

1759
01:19:34,039 --> 01:19:36,159
i think there might have been some even More outlandis

1760
01:19:36,239 --> 01:19:39,199
takes on That Thunder core and, yeah there's nothing's. PROMISED

1761
01:19:39,199 --> 01:19:43,800
i think the WE'RE i think we're, acknowledging LIKE i don't, know,

1762
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:47,279
man there's a lot of takeaways here related to this

1763
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,560
the why not us things, specifically and maybe you said,

1764
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:52,760
THIS i JUST i just think the fine point needs

1765
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,680
to be put on, it like the idea, that, well

1766
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:59,279
there's this team that's really really, good say The thunder

1767
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:02,000
or The spur or, whatever so like we're just gonna

1768
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:04,720
slow roll this a little. Bit like that's, Dumb like

1769
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,640
that's like you just there's there's NO i don't know

1770
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:10,880
what the team would need to look like that would

1771
01:20:11,039 --> 01:20:15,279
justify several other potential threats deciding like, nah we're we're

1772
01:20:15,399 --> 01:20:17,359
we're not gonna go for. IT i don't even know

1773
01:20:17,359 --> 01:20:18,840
if that's the thing that, happens but you hear that

1774
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:21,199
a lot right where it's, like, oh this is just,

1775
01:20:21,279 --> 01:20:23,039
wait wait a little, bit and the wonder will be

1776
01:20:23,119 --> 01:20:25,119
worse and then we'll go for. It doesn't make sense right,

1777
01:20:25,159 --> 01:20:26,960
Now they're too. Good we can't beat. Them that's always

1778
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:27,960
the wrong, choice.

1779
01:20:28,119 --> 01:20:30,319
Speaker 1: Right AND i think that we have the most we

1780
01:20:30,399 --> 01:20:30,800
ever saw.

1781
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,600
Speaker 2: IT i think you could just there was very clearly

1782
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:35,880
it felt like people were holding themselves back during like

1783
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:38,560
The Calves warriors finals reigns where just.

1784
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah and but the ca well, YEAH i was

1785
01:20:41,159 --> 01:20:42,880
gonna say with The calves beat, them but like The

1786
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:45,159
caves were that other. TEAM i, mean even the The.

1787
01:20:45,560 --> 01:20:49,199
Heatles everybody's, like why even? Try now With lebron And

1788
01:20:49,279 --> 01:20:50,520
wade And, bosh and it's you.

1789
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 2: Know there's always the, why there's always a why even try?

1790
01:20:53,039 --> 01:20:55,600
Team and those teams don't win every, title so they.

1791
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:59,199
Speaker 3: Won out of, four so it's the reason why you

1792
01:20:59,279 --> 01:21:01,600
try is fifty chance of winning a title against that.

1793
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:03,319
Speaker 2: TEAM i THINK i think what you, said, though also

1794
01:21:03,399 --> 01:21:05,760
speaks to it's not even just the, wine not us

1795
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:08,640
element you don't don't, ever AND i don't think teams

1796
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:11,279
actually do, This but if you're building any part of

1797
01:21:11,359 --> 01:21:14,520
your core with the idea of we need to Beat TEAM,

1798
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:17,119
X i think you've already. Lost and it's not like

1799
01:21:17,159 --> 01:21:18,800
the Timber wolves kind of did that with The. Nuggets

1800
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:20,520
it felt like and it's like worked out okay for

1801
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:23,079
them because they just keep beating The nuggets and they

1802
01:21:23,119 --> 01:21:23,800
made it the conference.

1803
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:26,119
Speaker 1: Finals i'm not saying that's what they, did but it

1804
01:21:26,199 --> 01:21:26,479
comes to.

1805
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:30,159
Speaker 2: More it's more about like having me, adaptability the, variability

1806
01:21:30,359 --> 01:21:32,000
and there's so much else that goes into. It but

1807
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:34,720
the why not us coupled with the you don't need

1808
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:38,279
like never be afraid or like be looking at one

1809
01:21:38,359 --> 01:21:39,279
team when you're making.

1810
01:21:39,359 --> 01:21:43,079
Speaker 3: Decisions you think The knicks built this team starting four

1811
01:21:43,199 --> 01:21:45,079
years ago because they're, like we're gonna have to do

1812
01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:45,479
something with.

1813
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1814
01:21:49,279 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 3: Like thirteen right.

1815
01:21:50,039 --> 01:21:52,439
Speaker 1: Now the only move THAT i think you maybe THE og,

1816
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:54,239
one but LIKE i would look.

1817
01:21:55,239 --> 01:21:58,159
Speaker 3: Against anybody Like OG's the most plug and, Play Like.

1818
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:01,680
Speaker 2: Carty towns is probably the closest we've seen the like

1819
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,399
The wemby foil and that was not a move that's no.

1820
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:08,720
Speaker 3: Might, ever it's never in a million, years. Right, Yeah

1821
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,600
so that's a great, Point like there's there's no team

1822
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:14,800
that you you gotta. Play you can't count on who

1823
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:16,680
you're gonna. Play you can't count on who's gonna be

1824
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:18,359
healthy for that. Team you can't count on when you're

1825
01:22:18,399 --> 01:22:20,319
gonna Face you just need to be you know what

1826
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,159
here it is to win a. Championship you need to

1827
01:22:23,239 --> 01:22:26,159
have the most good players that play really good at

1828
01:22:26,199 --> 01:22:28,159
the right. TIME i feel LIKE i feel like we.

1829
01:22:28,199 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 1: Could could you you, know you're like, blistering, Right CAN

1830
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:31,159
i carve that.

1831
01:22:31,239 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 3: In stone somewhere as like the only championship?

1832
01:22:34,039 --> 01:22:38,239
Speaker 2: Commandment did we just spend eighty plus minutes say absolutely nothing?

1833
01:22:38,319 --> 01:22:38,520
Speaker 1: Other?

1834
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah you need the most good players and they

1835
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:42,119
got to play good and then you'll be.

1836
01:22:42,199 --> 01:22:45,359
Speaker 2: Good that's that's spicy and, complex BUT i respect you

1837
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:46,800
for having the bravery to say.

1838
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:48,720
Speaker 1: IT i have one final thing to.

1839
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:52,159
Speaker 2: Say we don't wrap up around these parts, ever And

1840
01:22:52,239 --> 01:22:54,520
i'm not announcing that the grant The Hardman Knox show is.

1841
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:56,319
Ending it's been, Real it's been a great one for,

1842
01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:58,680
you but it is the end of the, season AND

1843
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:00,760
i just want to know this was like Our we've

1844
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:04,079
been this podcast in running since twenty. Fifteen no one

1845
01:23:04,119 --> 01:23:05,840
ELSE i would rather do this. With this was a,

1846
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,439
blast not just because The knicks, one but and there's

1847
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:10,199
no off season for, Us like off season is kind

1848
01:23:10,199 --> 01:23:12,399
of our on season with the amount of content we put,

1849
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:14,079
Out so there's no good time to just like take

1850
01:23:14,119 --> 01:23:16,079
a step back and respect what we've.

1851
01:23:16,119 --> 01:23:19,319
Speaker 1: Done BUT i enjoy the, hours countless hours you AND

1852
01:23:19,399 --> 01:23:19,720
i have just.

1853
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 2: Been thinking deeply about, basketball these grown adults putting a

1854
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:27,880
ball through a. Hoop it's been a genuine. Joy it's

1855
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:29,680
probably never gonna be a joy again if The knicks

1856
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:30,159
aren't winning the.

1857
01:23:30,199 --> 01:23:31,680
Speaker 1: TITLE i guess is this just peak?

1858
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:34,560
Speaker 2: Past BUT i wanted to shout you, out wanted to

1859
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:35,319
shout our audience.

1860
01:23:35,359 --> 01:23:37,039
Speaker 1: Out we do put in a lot of, work a

1861
01:23:37,119 --> 01:23:39,439
lot of, episodes but it is it is a lot of.

1862
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 2: Fun and there's just no good time to pause and, reflect,

1863
01:23:42,199 --> 01:23:44,479
really so we're in pause and reflection mode at the.

1864
01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:47,359
Moment SO i FIGURED i would just very much enjoy

1865
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:50,800
doing this WITH i certified fantabulous Mister.

1866
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:54,279
Speaker 3: GRAY i appreciate an echo everything you. SAID i WISH

1867
01:23:54,399 --> 01:23:56,800
i had known that there was gonna be an expression

1868
01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:59,319
of sincere. SENTIMENT i usually need a good forty eight

1869
01:23:59,359 --> 01:24:02,640
hours to build up the the preparedness to do.

1870
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:05,199
Speaker 2: That you promise to give me a firm hamshake once

1871
01:24:05,279 --> 01:24:07,600
we meet in. Person SO i am going to take

1872
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:08,520
that promise.

1873
01:24:08,239 --> 01:24:10,239
Speaker 3: To MY i, mean, yeah especially now that you're you're

1874
01:24:10,279 --> 01:24:12,600
in The Champions, Club So i'll teach you the, secret.

1875
01:24:14,279 --> 01:24:16,680
Speaker 1: Especially NOW i can NOW i can actually clue.

1876
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:19,199
Speaker 3: You in on, like, yeah there's just so much you

1877
01:24:19,239 --> 01:24:20,760
don't know. It just get. Ready it's going to be

1878
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:23,800
a really eye opening a few. Months the parades are,

1879
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:24,279
Cool you're.

1880
01:24:24,119 --> 01:24:26,600
Speaker 1: Gonna enjoy the, Parade but, no you told me how

1881
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:28,239
like fun like that would have.

1882
01:24:28,279 --> 01:24:31,279
Speaker 3: Been it's hard to just LIKE i could have, tried and,

1883
01:24:31,359 --> 01:24:33,479
honestly LIKE i don't have a firm grasp on, it

1884
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:36,319
like cause it's it's just it's a weird feeling when

1885
01:24:36,399 --> 01:24:39,359
your team wins. It it's it's it's, like what do

1886
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:41,439
you do with? Yourself you, know you don't you don't

1887
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:43,960
like you didn't know what it was going to feel

1888
01:24:44,039 --> 01:24:47,760
like you the surreality we talked. About but to circle,

1889
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:51,640
back like one hundred percent, AGREE i treasure our, treasure our.

1890
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:55,199
Chats thank you to everybody that's listening and watching for

1891
01:24:55,399 --> 01:24:58,079
making this possible and allowing us to continue to do

1892
01:24:58,199 --> 01:25:02,920
this great, season great ending by like it's just a

1893
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:05,840
little better because we had an awesome series that was

1894
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:09,720
super compelling and it did result, in, uh the outcome

1895
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:12,159
that gave you maximal. Happiness.

1896
01:25:12,399 --> 01:25:13,520
Speaker 1: Right the only.

1897
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:16,880
Speaker 2: Complaint is the basketball fan in me is you always

1898
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:18,640
want like an epic finals to close the.

1899
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: Year this was, epic but, like we needed at least

1900
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:23,640
one more game of. This i'll say that even as

1901
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:25,880
A knicks, fan it's we needed at least one more

1902
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:26,239
game of.

1903
01:25:26,359 --> 01:25:30,520
Speaker 2: This you know what's gonna invariably happen when it's lost

1904
01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:32,399
to history is it's just not gonna be talking about

1905
01:25:32,399 --> 01:25:34,039
it in the same way because it lasted five games

1906
01:25:34,079 --> 01:25:36,399
and it says four to one on no one's gonna not.

1907
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:38,680
Speaker 1: Enough people are gonna think that it was determined by twelve.

1908
01:25:39,279 --> 01:25:41,720
Speaker 2: Points and you know, what there is a there is

1909
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:44,840
a realm if they are, different if there's a, multiverse

1910
01:25:45,319 --> 01:25:47,399
one of them includes The spurs just winning this four to,

1911
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:49,760
zero because that's how close though every single game one.

1912
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:52,000
Speaker 3: And and there's one where the knicksweep. TOO i mean

1913
01:25:52,079 --> 01:25:53,079
like we were almost in that.

1914
01:25:53,159 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 1: One but but, like, NO i, agree are they're directly above?

1915
01:25:57,079 --> 01:25:59,560
US i? Think is? That or below? Us if you.

1916
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:02,039
Speaker 3: Sit it's one of those ones where it's like if

1917
01:26:02,119 --> 01:26:05,760
you simulated one hundred games between these, teams like or

1918
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:08,520
it simulated one hundred, series it might be like a

1919
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:11,119
fifty to fifty, Split and which is nuts to say

1920
01:26:11,239 --> 01:26:14,399
about a four to one right for to one comes

1921
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:17,520
nowhere close to capturing what this series. Was just it's

1922
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:19,239
not even it's a, joke total.

1923
01:26:19,319 --> 01:26:22,520
Speaker 1: Joke you have anything else for the, kids or are

1924
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:24,359
you ready to take us out of? HERE i don't think.

1925
01:26:24,399 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 3: So thanks for very for one last, time until till

1926
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:28,800
the very next, time right until we do this in

1927
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:32,279
a few. Days rate, review, subscribe do all that. Stuff

1928
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,920
the best way to support the pod join Our, Patreon,

1929
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:38,960
patreon dot, com Slash, HARDWOODKNOCKS NBA ad free content everything

1930
01:26:39,239 --> 01:26:41,920
uh is available. There we're gonna have bonus episodes or

1931
01:26:42,079 --> 01:26:45,079
two a month discounts on merch access to our discord

1932
01:26:45,359 --> 01:26:47,880
links for everything here in the YouTube and podcast. Description

1933
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:51,279
tell your, friends tell your, enemies enjoy the off season

1934
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:57,199
content COMING. Nba don't look either away cranking out on A.

1935
01:26:57,279 --> 01:27:00,479
Speaker 1: Tuesday what we just do The rapps in Like.

1936
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:05,800
Speaker 3: August that's not gonna map shout spraying pina. Fologies Jared

1937
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:06,079
allen