Speaker 1: What is up, Fellows?
Speaker 2: It goes, I am dan Fa Valley, a delirious dan
l basking in the delirium dan Fa Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, the certified fantabulous. Mister
Grant Hughes, we are gathered around the hardware Off campfire
today to talk about what happened in the Nick Spurs
NBA Finals. You might have heard about the outcome a
certain team ended a fifty three year titled drought, but
we also want to apply it to the rest of
the league and start thinking about, well, what can we learn?
What can every single team learn from these finals? Maybe
the playoffs at large, So we'll get into that finals
wrap up, anecdotes, maybe a whole bunch of fun stuff,
but grants the question, I think everyone is dying the
answer to know how am I doing? No?
Speaker 1: How are you doing? Sara? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, uh, not as good as you.
That's how I'm doing?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: I Yeah, it's uh. This is the first time in
uh since we have known each other that your team
has a more recent championship than mine does, because I
think technically the Warriors seventy five championship, So like all
along just I've had that lead on you.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's going to fracture the relationship at all?
This podcast? I don't.
Speaker 3: I feel lesser. I feel less than now you should,
I think you should. I just I feel like there's you.
You just have this advantage. Uh No, I I'm doing well.
I'm sure you. I'm sure you agree and feel ten
x on this front. But like, what a series? What
a five game series? Like it was that the most
intense five game series in the history of professional sports
series like full stop. I just unbelievable. Can't wait to
talk about it. But I mean, I don't know if
you want to take it now, but like, how how
are you doing?
Speaker 2: I think my single biggest takeaway from this is the
Knicks a NBA champions and I don't really know what
to do with my hands.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was in the moment, it.
Speaker 2: Was so surreal because like I had all this stuff
that was due after the game. There was four things
that I had to get done for Bleacher Report afterwards,
so you're not really thinking about it, but like then
you stop and think, this is kind of what I
grew up wanting to do. There was a version of
it where I would be on site covering the finals.
But as I've told you many times before, on site
work when we used to do it, I hated it.
And it's like me covering the finals from Afar, I
was able to stop, like in between the crazy, like
this is what you wanted to do, this is cool.
So everyone was a lot of people text me saying, oh,
this sucks that, like you're working, and like, I guess
it kind of did, but it was also like, well,
this is what I wanted to do, And I was
overwhelmed because I think one of the biggest compliments and
I don't think in the current climate that this would
be considered a compliment. But for so many years that
we did this podcast together, this podcast is going. People
had no idea I was a Knicks fan. It was
something that I it was like a badge of honor
that I kept it guarded because I didn't want it
to skew my coverage too much. But I think as
it became more acceptable to kind of let fandom show,
I was clearly behind the eight ball on that was
were by the number of messages I got from complete
strangers on the internet, just like the worst people you
met through the internet, text messages from like family and
friends and what it was Nicks fans who I knew
were die hards.
Speaker 1: It was like, okay, I get.
Speaker 2: It, but it was just like people actively congratulating me
as if I had something to do with it. So
I kept responding, I'd like to think that my contributions
were beyond measure to this title. Push people that I
would still consider, like I went to their weddings or
were but I haven't spoken to in years, texted me
and just reached out. I didn't really sleep Saturday and
the Sunday, and so instead of sleeping, I was just like,
let me go to the gym and get this over with.
So then having people come up to me who like
they kind of know what I do or might have known,
like congratulating me at six thirty am Eastern time at
the gym, and.
Speaker 1: So I had noticed too.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I mentioned this to you, there's
a lot of people who got annoyed by if they
were bandwagon fans or just paying attention to the finals
now that the Knicks.
Speaker 1: Were in it.
Speaker 2: I had noticed like just more Nick's talk, more Nicks
garb at the gym or from in the souper, and
I'm not.
Speaker 1: People who don't know me. I'm not flexing because I
go to the gym.
Speaker 2: The gym and the supermarket are like the only two
places that I go anymore, So that's the only way
we're going to see it.
Speaker 1: And so like that was just really cool to see.
Speaker 2: And I'm ninety minutes out of the city and there
were fireworks immediately after the final buzzer, and so that
there's just such an impact on people, whether it's they're
just capitalizing on quote unquote what they believe to be mayhem,
or just being super connected by this objectively just fun,
cool thing that happened and removing yourself from the discourse
of can they do like one of the things, well,
here's a peep behind the curtain. I was trying to
convince to write about why the Knicks would either be
a one hit wonder or the next great dynasty, and
I just flat out said no. I was like, I
was like, no, let's do something that's like actually related
to it. And so to be able to live in
that moment was I still don't think it's hit me,
Like maybe it'll hit me when they're on the parade,
But I just haven't wrapped my head around this.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure there's.
Speaker 2: Probably a more youthful version of myself that's bummed that
I in tears or like I had screamed a few times.
But and you can ask my wife, boy did I
scream a few times? So I'm sure there was a
like a version of Dan who's twenty years younger that's
like disgusted by my reaction here. But like what I
actually felt like, I do have this feeling which, as
you know too, like especially over the past, like stupid
levity has not been something that's been available in ample
supply the past.
Speaker 1: Like fourteen or fifteen months.
Speaker 2: It just feels like there's this levity or like this
weight or just like this weird something off my shoulders.
And that's not to say it's not about me, I
justin or that it's about me excuse me. I just
imagine that that's a feeling that millions of New Yorkers
just have at this moment or after that moment, and
that's really fucking cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when your tea, so I I totally identify with
the surreality of it, because it's like like if you
if you had to pick like one sports outcome or
even one like one thing to happen that is in
any way related to a pastime of yours or like
a thing you're interested in. It wouldn't be like I
do even are you do you identify as like a
Yankees fan or like a New York Giants fan or
what like? Sure, but like you would pick a Knicks
title a million times over any of those other things, right,
or like I don't even know what the what the
what what a comp would be? And like then you
get that thing and it happens this way with this team,
and it's just like you can't really process it, cause
like the best thing just happened, you know, like the
best thing you could have asked for just happened, like
a thing that take yourself at any age, and you
would have begged for this, and it's just like you
almost can't get your head around it because it's just
like you you don't know how you Like, I can
remember the first Warriors title being like I don't know
what I thought I was gonna feel. I don't know
what I do feel. It's just like and then I
landed where you landed, where this little thought would creep
into your head, you know, weeks or months later where
it's like they just want it, Like it's like it
just like trickles into your brain, like you know what.
That doesn't make all the bad stuff in the world
go away, but it's a nice little offset that's just
like you know what, right now, and for several months
and for the whole rest of the next year, you're
gonna get to have that feeling of like they fucking
want it, and it's just it's gonna make you.
Speaker 2: Feel good and it's cool to be wrong because I
think so that Warrior's side on twenty fifteen, I have
to imagine what was so special is that nobody I'm
infamously one person did, but like nobody was picking them
to win the title, and so there's something special in
that catching the entire league off guard.
Speaker 1: And then what goes on to happen too.
Speaker 2: In hindsight with the Knicks, it wasn't unexpected because they
were I mean, you had James Dolan calling a tyler
or bust.
Speaker 1: They were built to do this now.
Speaker 2: But I was just wrong in the sense that you
go back to the very first move, that trickle that
started all of this, the Jallen Brunson signing, and there's
I think there's a YouTube short somewhere of me crashing
out about it. I didn't criticize the amount of the contract,
it was the process by what the Knicks got or
went to get him and the player they quote unquote
settled on. I thought it was just a commitment to mediocrity.
So you're wrong from the start. And then if you
go back to post NBA Cup, how many times did
I say some variation. I would hope it is a
little bit more nuanced than this, But no, this team
just doesn't have it, like there's something rotten here. And
then for them to just reach not just the apex
of their powers, but put in one of the most
you don't have to call them one of the most
dominant teams in NBA history.
Speaker 1: That was one of the most dominant playoff runs we've
ever seen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for them to put that together, there was
the disarming nature of it. So it was it was surprising.
But then you're also wrong about because we were forced
to give opinions on what it wasn't they weren't considered
a contender. We had to talk about throughout the year,
are they actually a contender, and so there's just all
these receipts of me being consistently wrong about this team,
and that kind of made it sweeter in a sense,
not that I enjoy being wrong, but it wasn't just
they were built to do this and they did it.
It was they were built to do this. We all
decided that they failed and then they didn't. And it
was had you asked me, and maybe I even told
you this at one point, like I never would have.
I would have just flat out said they're not winning
a title in my lifetime or before I age out
of covering this day to day, like I never would have.
So for that to happen is just still riding on
cloud and I just don't really know how to like
sort of react to it.
Speaker 1: And just seeing the interviews and.
Speaker 2: Like the joy coming out from all these different people,
and then like even the hilarity moment, like the hilarious
moments of just like I don't know if you saw
any of og on Good Morning of America. I don't
know if he was just viably uncomfortable or stoned, but
was just like the coolest thing, and he was just
so awkward. There was the video he went he put
on his Instagram live on accident and you hear him
in the background asking other people how do I stop
the live and it was just like.
Speaker 3: You know what I will say. I one of the
best parts is the post title stuff, like the celebratory stuff,
because like I think, I think what you want in
increasingly in the world we live in, like authenticity is
just like impossible to find, and you get these little
pockets of it here and there. But like when a
team wins a championship, you get this like this flood
of like the guard comes down. They're just feeling, like
the players specifically, they're just like feeling the feelings that
they've like been conditioned and like in some cases specifically
coached through like media training to just hide, you know,
and it all comes out and you get to see
just this sincere, authentic reaction from these people that have
been praying for this to happen their entire lives. Like
thinking of Brunson, for example, just like his whole entire
life has just been geared towards like can I do
this thing? And then he does the thing and you
get to see in real time like what that does
to a person. You know, he just like is pretty overwhelmed.
I was like shocked by how held together he seemed
in the immediate aftermath, he was clearly emotional, but like
I love a good like collapse on the floor in
a heap, tear like tears just like jump up forever,
Like that's just the best. And then like the parade
is a whole other thing where they're just like everybody's
pretty lit, they're all like on no sleep per days,
and then you get the real like just the I
don't know, yeah, the guardrails come down and it's just
like a really special like add in to the whole,
like they won the championship experience.
Speaker 2: I don't think Jeremy Sohan has put on a shirt
since they won, which is just great because Jeremy Sohan
comes in mid season, isn't really like an active contributor.
Was facing the Spurs, I think the funniest moment so
far that I've seen. I'm sure the parade will get
to it, and I don't think it was intentionally funny,
but they were doing if you saw Rick and Jalen
Brunton were talking with the inside the NBA crew and
Rick Brunson pretty much unprompted says, I think Shaq is
the greatest free agency signing in NBA history.
Speaker 3: And Patrick Ewing, he says, Patrick.
Speaker 1: Ewing is the greatest thing ever and is just sitting
right next to him. And so I just found that
so funny.
Speaker 2: And to your point about the guards coming down, we
do a much better I think of treating because they
are like acknowledging the humanness of everything about the NBA.
But when you do see these players and they're interacting
with their children or they're just their families, and it's
just you think back to all the stuff that was
said about them, or the vitriol hurled their weary on
social media, or the number of fake trades that we
put them through, and it's cool to see and I
would argue probably essential just to see that veil pull
down a little bit, to remind yourself like there are
just real humans behind all this, and to see them
overcome with emotion is I think in some ways this
stuff will mean more or be something they taught like,
not that it doesn't mean more to players than it
does fans, but you sometimes can fall into the trap
of the players aren't connected to the logo on their
jersey the way that the fan base is and I
think there's some truth to that, but like this shit
absolutely matters for them, and like it was you see
it with I would say, I'm trying to think of
the last champion that I would have been disappointed in
their reaction, Like even the Warriors having won so many
in a short amount of time. Ember when the Spurs
did it, it was always just so emotional when it happened.
It's like that part of it is just one of
the most like compelling things of crowning a champion in general.
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty pretty spectacular. Where do you want to go
from here?
Speaker 1: The last self indulgent thing I'll do?
Speaker 3: Oh, here we go you.
Speaker 1: I told my friend I would put this on for
this podcast.
Speaker 2: We won you and I were sent some br swag
and I have a Wu Tang Nicks jersey.
Speaker 3: How appropriate by the way, Method Man called it Nixon five.
Speaker 2: So for anyone watching the second and last time, you
will see me in a sleeveless I think, unless the
air condition is broken, a sleeveless.
Speaker 1: Shirt on this podcast. So shout out to br for
breaking us up with swag.
Speaker 2: Grant might put on his eight X Yeah Warriors jersey.
Speaker 3: At forty edition. It's very bedazzled. I hate to break
it to you and to myself, I guess, or admits
myself might be a minute for the Warriors collect another title,
so I may not have cause for it.
Speaker 1: That just gives you time to fit into it, though.
It's like you, really I do. I think of you though.
Speaker 2: One of the first words that come to mind is bedazzled,
and so I think at least they got the size
wasn't going to be right.
Speaker 1: At least the spirit behind it was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it captures my essence really well.
Speaker 2: Really, so I think we should start with maybe our
takeaways for each team from the series before getting in
the league wide stuff.
Speaker 1: Did you want to start? You can go Spurs Knicks.
Speaker 2: What is like kind of your single biggest takeaway from
one of them?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I I I think it's pretty specific I've made
I've made the observation before. I guess I'm maybe you
can correct me on this, but like, I don't feel
like I'm seeing this particular take as often as I
think or as I would have expected to, which is
again that just like Victor woman Yama right now today
is not an offensive creator or playmaker or I think
I said last time we talked. He's not a stabilizer.
He's not like the safe place and the safe place
that the ball can go when you haven't scored in
five possessions and the other teams cutting into the lead.
Basically like it's a tough look in a series where
the guy on the other side is Jalen Brunson and
he is one hundred percent that guy where it's just
you know, at a minimum he's going to get you.
Maybe it'll be a tough look, but because it's him,
you trust that. Well, a tough look you know for
him is is a is a pretty good look for
somebody else that just isn't what Wembanyama is. And and
I mean will we will talk about all of the
other shortcomings that that were revealed in the Spurs. This
is at the very least wemban Yama's sort of failings
in this specific regard are tied to I think some
of the bigger issues that the Spurs had. And again
we're we're talking about issues for a team that won
sixty games and is like a million years ahead of
schedule and has as bright a future as any team
in the league, has better title odds next year than
the Knicks two. So, so just like this is all
right old? Is that true that I think it is?
You're right, Sorry, I hope you enjoyed the title of
your old news.
Speaker 1: Now, well, now the vibes are real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean it's so yeah, I mean, am
I making too much of that? Like, and I can
see that it's like it's unfair. He's the best defensive
player in the world, Like he's got a team full
of guards that should be doing this for him. But
it did seem like the Spurs never really gave up
on the idea of or maybe weren't good enough offensively.
Otherwise we talk about that to avoid these situations where
women Yama has to create a shot on the perimeter
too far from the basket, and it just I struggle
to think of an example of when it worked, you know,
or when it generated a stabilizing possession. It just it
just never really did. Yeah, I'll stop there, because there's
a million sort of like like offshoots of this discussion
that we can have.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess I don't think anything you said was wrong,
But the two things that I harp on, and this
would be the low hanging fruit it's year three, and
so this is the worst that Victor Weben Yama is
ever gonna be. My other I think more salient question
is does he need to be that player when you
look at what he's what he can still do if
you look at him as if he's at number two
on offense, and then you have what he does on
defense and the way that he does even without the
ball on either end of the court, just reshape the
geometry of it and how defense is slash opposing offenses
approach him, do you like? Are you building your like?
Is the idea of Victim Miyama he needs to be
that guy?
Speaker 3: I don't think so. And I think just between Harper
and Castle getting better, hopefully this burs are in a
situation where it's like, it's not even really a consideration
that you put him in that position again in high
stake situations, I think too, it's it's probably just a
testament to his skill level where that's even like something
that's justifiable to try is trusting him in just virtually
any offensive situation. I mean, I just think it's unrealistic
to ask that of him long term, even if he
does get significantly better at it. Because his defensive role
is so important and so taxing, and I think clearly
taxed him during during specific games and through the series.
It's the finals itself. Yeah, I think that's that's the
right question to ask, is like should he be in
a position where he's asked to do that? And I
don't think so. I think ideally he is a second
or third option or just just a play finisher. That's
that's the term that has resonated most with me, is
he's someone that could be the greatest finisher in the
league offensively, whether that's a lob, whether that's his value
as a spacer. I just I just think this the
best version of the Spurs will be setting him up
as opposed to him trying to generate stuff. I mean,
I just and again I think you're right. It doesn't
It doesn't seem like that's something he ought to be
asked to do.
Speaker 2: If you could, though you're adding Victor Wormriyama needs to
add or perfect one thing between now and next season.
Speaker 1: What are you kind of harping on?
Speaker 3: Hmm? I mean, this is the thing with him is
it's like he's such a talent that it's hard to
isolate one thing I think. I guess maybe here's what
my brain went to very first, so first thought, best thought,
I think he needs to be a little stronger, and
which would enable him to catch the ball at the
basket more often, because the Knicks had so much success
just getting a body in his way and preventing those
lobs or I mean they were fouling him on purpose,
I think effectively anytime a lob went up. But if
he can get a little stronger and hold that position,
better get to the spot and hold the position, then
there's nothing to do with him because you can't. There's
no amount of help, defense or positioning that will matter.
If you can throw the ball to a spot where
only he can catch it. He just has to be
able to get to those spots. Do you agree with
that or do you lean towards like, oh, just more
three point shooting, or let's establish the mid range game,
or any number of other possibilities for him.
Speaker 2: I think that's a good one because it kind of
just bleeds into I think people have said, imagine if
he had so and so's face up game, or if
he could do this in the post. And I've kind
of not to diminish what this player is doing or
insinuate that he is the you know, the pinnacle of Unicorns,
like Christops Porzingis has mastered Turn and Fire, and Victor
Wemenyama could do the same thing. I just wonder with
some of the stuff that maybe we've both talked about
in the past. You mentioned the three point volume, do
you think any of that or do you think that
might be more important? Because do you want Victor Wemenyama
doing even as a play finisher if you're operating a
lot from the interior? What if we said doesn't connect
on screens enough. Sometimes they don't get him going downhill enough?
Is he and this isn't a Kenny stay healthy? I
would say the same thing about Chet Holmgren. I'd say
the same thing about Kevin Durant if he was like
used in this way. Is that do you worry about
what can he hold up to that type of physicality?
Speaker 3: I think I think that's a legit concern. I just
because there is also a version of him that is
getting up ten threes a game and has immense offensive value,
because maybe he can get to the point where he's
making that at thirty eight forty percent, Like that's that's
on the table. I think, to me, even if you
you have to take on the risk of the physicality
and just it's it's sketchy er in there around the basket, right,
There's more feet to step on, there's more bodies to
fall into your knees, all that stuff. I think you
take that risk on because his value as an offensive rebounder,
as a lob finisher, as just like his hands are
so good, he catches everything. I think the upside of
him offensively around the basket is just higher. And like
I just I just don't know. Again, I don't know
what you do with him. If he can just hold
his position down there, there's like there's just there's no answer.
Speaker 2: I think this kind of does for my takeaway for
the Spurs. This actually, I think relates nicely. I think
d Aaron Fox is becoming this unfair scapegoat of what
went wrong.
Speaker 1: He was not good by and large.
Speaker 2: In this series, made a couple of we got a
someone he's had this by the way, I think you
could argue that this might be a coaching issue. Someone's
got to have a talk to him about these take
fausts in the end of games. When that doesn't seem
like they need to because what he have two or
three in the series alone?
Speaker 1: Three three.
Speaker 2: So I'm not trying to sit here and say, you
know what, the Aaron Fox was actually good and they
should have featured him more down the stretch. I just
wonder how much of it was What were the other options,
because I think you've been ahead of Dylan Harper like
compared to me and one of my one of my
not qualms, but issues with well giving Dylan Harper more volume.
I just feel like, does he have the the playmaking
button or can he have the What does Fox do?
In theory can create some separation for a pull up jumper,
and we saw it even with that high cashtrain, which,
by the way, I don't want to make an excuse,
but like that's more than an astis. When you look
at the way that Fox plays.
Speaker 3: It's indivisible from any part of the discussion you want
to have about him. If you're gonna be fair about it,
like you have to acknowledge he was playing with an
injury that is like a week's injury. You know he
wouldn't be playing if it was March.
Speaker 2: So sorry, So no, No, where I was wrong is
Dylan Harper just clearly would be ready for it. I
don't think he was ready for what the Spurs needed
in this moment.
Speaker 3: He did hit.
Speaker 1: Remember some of the in between.
Speaker 2: Shots I was talking about, like if those looks go
down for dearon Fox by the end of the series, Yes,
I didn't want. Fox took like two long TuS down
the stretch of Game five and it was just.
Speaker 1: Uh, it was tough to watch.
Speaker 2: Harper could put in like a couple of like shorter
mid rangers in that game where it was all right,
I don't know what the final form of this kid
is gonna be, but it's gonna be way better than
anyone else who's.
Speaker 1: Not named Wemby on this team. So I do recognize that.
Speaker 2: But he wasn't there, And I do find myself wondering
in hindsight, why wasn't developing Dylan Harper's lead initiation stuff
more of a priority throughout the season where it was
go to the four guard lineups with Wemby more, just
give him more pick and roll volume. He had two
point eight pick and roll possessions during the regular season,
which is basically half of what Fox or Castle were running.
He stayed true to that volume two and a half
pick and rolls per posession in the playoffs less than
half of what Castle and Fox were running. That should
he should have been more familiar in those instances because
right now I think he's very reliant on If he's
going to create things, it needs to be as a
scorer with his drives or.
Speaker 1: As a passer out of the situations.
Speaker 2: Unlike Castle, I don't think he needs to be limited
to that window. And speaking of Castle, I've always been
a little bit lower on Castle than consensus, and he
had a fantastic sophomore campaign. I didn't feel him one
iota in Game five except for really the bad stuff,
and I'm not gonna use that to defind the rest
of his career. But when we're pointing to they needed
to play Harper over Castle or excuse me, Fox, it
wasn't just like a Fox issue. The Harper Castle minutes
in this series you had a one oh two point
seven offensive rating and a negative ten net rating. If
you play Harper and Fox without Castle, they had a
fifteen point one net rating and were a plus twenty seven.
Speaker 1: So they could have gone to that more like Castle
might have.
Speaker 2: Like it's easy to just look at that in hindsight.
So I just wanted to point out, yes, the Fox
contract isn't great, but this idea that you either need
to dump him or that this is now, this is
now the player he is because we just watched this series,
I'm not look you and I both thought they were
gonna maybe negotiate. He signed for four years, two hundred
and twenty one point eight million, begins next season, runs
through his age thirty two campaign. Doesn't look ideal when
you see the final year of that contract pays out
sixty one point four million dollars. I don't know what
his trade value is now, but I think because even
if you said, right now we think Dylan Harper is
gonna get better, you still need the idea of what
Fox does because you didn't have proof of concept with
either Castle or Harper being that more complete offensive weapon.
And so to me, it's not Daron Fox has to
be the answer. It's well, the idea of Daron Fox
is still more valuable than not having him, to me.
So if you do want to look at trading him, fine,
but it's not let's just go trade for any expiring contract.
D It's no, you need a player in addition to
the other things that you need, which Grant and I
will tackle more in depth when we do this. Spurs
offseason look good, Like, if you're gonna get rid of Fox,
you need to replace. What Fox does is more my
point so bad series. I'm not sure what his trade
value is. But I also think that Daron Fox is
just a much better player than we witness in the finals.
Speaker 1: And I don't.
Speaker 2: I honestly, we always kind of wonder, well, Fox is
gonna be the odd man out at some point, even
when it was clear he fit maybe slightly better than
we have thought.
Speaker 1: My opinion hasn't changed.
Speaker 2: I don't go into the off season urgently thinking they
need to move on from Diarron Fox.
Speaker 3: I don't either. I think I think part of that
is just because, well, here's here's where we I think
definitely agree and I think differ maybe from some of
the more reactionary thinking on this, is that he's he's
absolutely not a player that you just they're better without
him or the overall picture of the Spurs improves if
you get him off the books for expiring money. I
just I just don't. I just don't think that's true,
and that's different, Like I don't think he fits well.
I think if you gave Dylan Harper next season the
exact same opportunities, I think he would outproduce Fox probably,
But that's that's not the same thing as and and
like really, what really the issue here is he's gonna
make fifty plus million dollars a year and he's he's
not that player or even if you want to give
him maximum benefit of the doubt and acknowledge, he was
an all star and he you know, has been the
part of the driving I think he was a bigger
part of the King's Awesome season a few years ago
than Sabonis was shocker. But but I I just think
it's the money that wrecks this and on this team
in particular, because Harper seems to be on a track
where it's like, why would you have another guard making
fifty million dollars that like shouldn't play ahead of him
on the you know what I mean. It's just it's
the money and it's the fit on this team that
that is tough. But you can you're never gonna get
me to the point of like you gotta dump him.
That that's that's crazy because like Look, we've talked about
it already. Look what happened to the Spurs like turn
ball security when Fox wasn't available. It's just like they
clearly needed some of what he provided. I think if
you want to criticize Mitch Johnson, he should have scaled
it back a little bit. Like Fox plays less, Harper
plays more. Maybe you play Fox with Castle more exclusively
and let Harper run. Like there's a lot of ways
to to like move the sliders around without just going
the drastic round of like bench him or you know,
people were calling for him to be like it is
never gonna happen, and it shouldn't have happened. I think
there were so many more measured ways to sort of
deal with his poor performance and to get more out
of Harper who was playing great. That may be just
another takeaway is like everybody on the Spurs was inexperienced
in some key ways, and that includes the coach. Like
it just you know, maybe next time they're in this position,
Johnson has the clout or the confidence to make some
of those tougher decisions. I don't know that. Yeah, that
the pendulum, as we like to say, has swung a
little too far. In the negative on Fox, I think.
Speaker 1: Do you think though?
Speaker 2: I guess, But when you look at the money, Dylan
Harper is not going to be making like this was
his rookie season. You have three more years of cost control,
even if you want to measure it against Fox. Oh,
excuse me, Castle, two more years of cost control. So
I don't view the contract as actually being that detrimental.
Do you think it's more of because he makes so much,
they're going to assume that he needs to be more
featured or he can't, not that he needs to come
off the bench. But Dylan Harper is never going to
close over him. He'll have to close jointly with him.
Speaker 1: Well, not at all.
Speaker 3: That's part of it. The other part of it is
just the opportunity cost of Like what what else? What
is there a better way for the Spurs to be
spending fifty million dollars a year? Answer? Yes, right, Like
if there's you know that a player at that, you know, paygrade,
that's a better option at a forward spot than Julian
than Champagne or or Vassel or whatever. Like I like
both of those guys. Those guys are really good players.
But like if you it's been fifty million dollars somewhere else,
like split it up between a better backup center and
like maybe another depth. Like that's really where it is.
That's to me, if you're saying, oh, Fox has got
to be off of this team, it's it's because you
want to use those resources someplace else. It's not because like,
well the bill's gonna come do It's not an okay,
see thing or the other. Well, once Castle and Wemby
and and everybody get their money, then boy were in trouble.
It's just like what if that was being spent on
a comparable talent at forward? Like then we just have
a totally different scenario.
Speaker 1: I have a hypothetical Fox trade for you to throw out.
Speaker 2: Okay, so Fox and a pick go to Memphis, Ja
Morant goes to Miami, Andrew Wiggans assumingly he ops in
ends up going back to San Antonio with the money
you could finagle if you think the Spurs want a
Santi al Dama or a Ti Jerome leaving Memphis as well,
But would that be like a structure.
Speaker 3: I think that that's kind of what I'm Yeah, I
think you could you need Harper and Castle to both
become what you think they can become, which I would
be confident in, especially with respect to Harper Castle's we
might have an more interesting conversation on what Castle should
be on this team. Uh but yeah, Wiggins, I think
is is just the kind of role player you want
on every championship team. Honestly, I would like be aiming higher,
Like you know, what if I don't know, I don't
have a great name, but it's like someone like I
don't know the guy that just kept stoning you at
the rim og and Andobie, what what if a player? Yeah?
Like it just that type and what what are the
spurs with that dude? You know? Like that that's a
different thing.
Speaker 1: This is where I will recognize.
Speaker 2: I just don't know what Fox has trade value, Like
how many picks if you're trying to get better than
Andrew Wiggins, who at least is probably more playable than
Harrison Barnes. In this series, if we're looking back, most
would be yes, what is your looking at the Knicks
end of the spectrum? Before we get into more of
the league wide poll based off this series, what's your
biggest takeaway for the Knicks other than they're the next
dynasty coming here.
Speaker 3: Yes, other than they're either one and done or they're
gonna win three of the next five titles, because that's
what we have to do every time a team wins.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of the other. So this ties to
just I don't know this. This is making me reevaluate,
Like you know how every year you try to think
like what we will go through them, like what are
the lessons here? And it's like, I'm not sure. Jalen
Brunson is always a top ten player. And we've had
the conversation many times of like, well, wherever the cutoff
is for best player on a championship team, I think
he's below the line, And then clearly he's not because
he just did that. And he did it by scoring
forty five points, which is like, damn your half of
his team's total in a closeout game, and just engineered
comeback after comeback, was always there in the fourth quarter,
basically like did everything that you would ask of your
best player in a high stake situation, just over and
over and over again. And so I guess the takeaway
is that like he wasn't good enough right up until
the moment that there was no doubt whatsoever that he
actually was, So like, what is that? What does that
mean for how we go about evaluating you know, a
team may just say like a team's championship equity, because
I think a lot of the time we'd be like, well,
they don't have Shay or Jannis or Jokic or Luca
or maybe one or two other guys. Wemby, Yeah, right,
Wemby was ahead of him in this conversation, and we
just my first point was like, he ain't that guy
at least offensively, So what do we do with that now?
Because it just you know, like you're building a team,
this ties to everything. It's why tanking was a thing,
because you want to go get the guy who can
be the guy. And Brunson didn't fit that mold at all.
And do you think it's that he was this good
all along that we've been mistaken in how we're evaluating
the top criteria for a championship team, which is you
got to have a guy that's just like top three
in the league or whatever. Or is this a case
of the team around him was so good and fits
so well that yeah, you can win it with the
eleventh best player or whatever, the eighth or the ninth, like,
how do we how do we go forward evaluating? You know,
does does tem X have the key ingredient for a
championship win? Because Brunson basically never fit that description, except
now he does because he did the thing.
Speaker 2: I think it's probably more the latter that it's easy,
that it's possible to build a championship team around someone
who's not a top ten player but is still or
for X amount of years, or a consensus top ten player,
but they still need to be firmly I know the
range isn't increasing as much. It still needs to be
a firmly an All NBA player. But when he's just
making second team All NBA, you could say, well, he's
been a top ten player, And I think that's fair
if we're looking at it through the brunts and lens specifically,
I think it probably needs to change the way that.
Speaker 1: We evaluate small guards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's by that.
Speaker 2: By that, I mean no, someone shouldn't try and build
a championship team around a Colin Gillespie. It's what did
we miss about brunching Brunson is I think there's always
been what we value it until we don't, which is
if they can just get buckets against any sort of
defense like that matters, or draw fouls, like get to
the foul line just because they're not like a spelty, wiry,
fluid six' Five Shay Gildess Alexander, no like the six
foot he's six, two BUT i think he's more like
five to, Eleven, like, yeah.
Speaker 1: This is dating profile.
Speaker 2: MATH i think two like a five to eleven inch
bruising tank that has incredible. Footwork and the other thing
to me is we need to go a little bit in.
Deeper is, well let's evaluate why what is their limitation
on defense or why is it hard to build a
top tier.
Speaker 1: Defense infury around.
Speaker 2: Them is it because they are trey young and they're
slight and they're, small or is it really just well they're,
small so teams will Like Jalen brunton is always by
and large, tried and it DOESN'T i would, say actually
most of the time it doesn't. MATTER i would go
as far saying, That but if you get in there
and you take charges and you can handle that physicality
and you can provide any sort of physical resistance to
guys that MIGHT i think that probably needs to matter.
Speaker 1: More it's sort of didn't we go through this phase
a little.
Speaker 2: Bit With Kyle lowry where it was recognizing how good he,
was AND i know that he's not as.
Speaker 1: Small what is he listed at? Six what is he? Six?
Speaker 3: He so they play, similarly you, know size, wise and.
Speaker 2: And so like that type of player if they can
do What John brunton does on. Offense Even Kyle LOWRY
i think was probably a little bit morephiness on. Offense
but we need to more holistically look at these. Players
we dismissed them because, no like history says you can't
win with your best player being under a certain, height
and it's just so easy to like for that to
be like you're almost, certain like we've created so much
criteria to where it's well Like Asaiah thomas did, it
but The Detroit pistons were the. Like SO i think
it does NEED i don't think that will Book Jalen
brunson's this new we've unveiled a new code, archetype BUT
i think it's something to more so keep in mind.
Now but to your initial, QUESTION i really do think
it's more about the team that you put around them as,
well especially the other variables that go into play here
when you're looking at are we saying the same thing
About Jalen brunson right now or even through and through
the season if he's on a market value, contract that's
also kind of part of.
Speaker 1: The shine with.
Speaker 2: Him so but like you look, at not every team
has an OGN, i like is? THERE i wrote this
AND i said it off handedly without giving it much.
Thought but The knicks's wing, trio for as flawed as
they can, be there's not another wing trio in the
league Like josh hart Mchal bridge's ogn AND. Obi when
you're looking at what you're able to do defensively with,
them that's not, saying, well look at like putting good
wings around, Him like that's not a, revelation that's just
something we. Knew, no The knicks seem to have just
they hoarded them without people kind of realizing.
Speaker 3: It mm. HMM i think the other thing that the beautiful,
thing one of the beautif things about This knicks team
winning a championship is it's sort of every time this,
happens like just again The warriors, run it's, like, well
everybody's got to have switchable defenders and crazy shooting and
like that's the blueprint for a. While and then you,
Know i'm trying LIKE i don't. Know then wings are,
king like everybody's trying to compete With tatum And brown or,
whatever like this one is like so you're gonna need
like someone with a bigger heart and more toughness than
anybody else on Planet earth. Has and you're also gonna
need him to take massive discounts so you can surround
him with talent because all he cares about is. Winning
and and like this is one of the like that
is really truly where this all, starts is like you
can't The knicks can't do this other. Stuff they can't
put a supporting cast that's good enough to make the
ninth to twelfth best player in the league a champion
unless he takes the, discount, Right like and he did
that to, Win AND i think like, HE i don't,
know it's you run up against this like ick feeling
of he saved the owners money and we don't want
to cheer, that like get what you can, Get LIKE
i do think that's a logical, Thing like you can
never be mad at someone for taking as much money
as they can get in a. Career that's gonna last
some ten years if they're. Lucky but like he really
did do the thing everyone says they're willing to, do
which is JUST i want to win before anything, else
And i'll do what you need me to do to
make that. Happen like that part is not easily replicable
because today nobody as good As brunson has taken a
haircut to the degree that he. Has and if you
want to expand the criteria or the types of the
list of teams that can win titles without a top five,
player you need that element. Too and like nobody's gonna do,
This Like Jalen brunson winning a championship is not going
to kick off a rash of really good players taking
way less. MONEY i just don't think it's gonna. Happen
this is the.
Speaker 2: You're actually bleeding into one of my league wide, TAKEAWAYS i,
think Because i'm wondering if it will and maybe we
should just we could just get in, well, well we'll save.
It but so the the Other Jalen brunson, thing, too
is that the adaptability that he had when they did
shift more of the offense to towns or even to Mchal,
BRIDGES i think that kind of proved being your top
player regardless of your, height being able to play in
different ways offensively with them and them still being primary
scorer material is important BECAUSE i don't THINK i.
Speaker 1: Think more stars are adaptable than.
Speaker 2: Not BUT i don't think that you could use Prime
James harden necessarily in the way that The knicks we're
Using Jalen brunson when they funneled the offense To Karl Anthony.
Speaker 1: TOWNS i don't they haven't needed.
Speaker 2: TO i will say we've seen him play faster and
off the ball a little bit more LIKE i don't
know if you could do that With. Luca this is
not to Say Jalen brunson is better Than, luca but
looking through the lens of if you're not the top five,
guy like having that scalability to different forms of the,
offense that has to matter. Too it's not like if
If Jalen brunson Was Luka, doncic but he's nine inches, shorter, like,
yeah we have we have, problems but he's Not, Luka
like there were just other things that separated him from.
That so not THAT i don't know if it's easier
to build.
Speaker 1: A contender Around.
Speaker 2: Brunson maybe that's a conversation that some people are ready to,
have but it's it's possible because of LIKE, X y AND,
z rather than we need to put them in this
this bucket and so me, PERSONALLY i am going to
try and think longer and harder about when a team
has someone in that maybe even top fifty to twenty,
range where's we're thinking about they need to scale?
Speaker 1: Up and maybe it's more.
Speaker 2: About, no like you need to diversify around them and
be smarter around them and get higher in talent around,
them which is sort of a no. Brainer but we
we harp on whether it's a team tanking or whether
it's a team trying to get over the championship hip championship.
Speaker 1: Pump excuse? Me do they have you named all of?
Them The, giannis The, luca The, jokic The shay wemb et. Cetera.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah the final takeaway for this, year not the final,
one but the one THAT i think The knicks did
a good job of. Showing we focus a lot on
like the risks that team's, take The knicks trading For
Karl Anthony towns doing so much to go Get John
brunson deciding that they're not only gonna trade For og
but pay him five, years two hundred and twelve point
five million.
Speaker 1: DOLLARS i feel like sometimes we.
Speaker 2: Forget about the moves not made when they very really
could have. Been and so a couple of spring to minds.
Here i'll start With Donovan. Mitchell and it was after
The knicks had already Had, brunson so maybe that made it.
Speaker 1: Easier BUT i don't know if you.
Speaker 2: Remember Donovan mitchell said after he was traded to The,
cavaliers he had heard about The knicks's best offer and
it Included Hella, picks AND i guess the line in
the sand WAS.
Speaker 1: Rj, barrett which in hindsight is just. Funny but if
you TRADE.
Speaker 2: Rj barrett And Hella picks For Donovan, mitchell the sliding
doors here are. Incredible it's, one Does brunton Become brunson
Alongside Donovan?
Speaker 1: Mitchell the answer is, no, right you don't. Trade oh go.
Speaker 3: AHEAD i KNOW i was gonna, say, like you're just
you've already gone off on a different, timeline like several
things don't happen, right like it just it's everything pivots
on that on that, moment and LIKE i, THINK i
mean up UNTIL i mean even even though as recently
as like a few months, ago you might have, said,
LIKE i don't, KNOW i Think Donovan mitchell is better
Than Jalen. Brunson, right that was the real. Discussion and
to your.
Speaker 2: Point, so like the other, signs if you TRADED. Rj,
barrett do you then still have the assets to trade FOR.
Og the answer is, PROBABLY i don't, Know but if
you had traded a bunch of picks at that, point
you're not making up THE.
Speaker 1: Rj barren difference with.
Speaker 2: Picks, oh by the, way then the mckal bridges trade doesn't,
happen does The Karl Anthony towns trade?
Speaker 1: Even do you have enough pick actor we left over for?
Speaker 2: THAT i think the more important one you kind of
alluded to this there was a very they had an
exclusive negotiating window to Get yannis over the off. SEASON
i don't think they ever had the assets to do.
It but you fast forward to the trade. Deadline so
a few months, ago the number of people who were
one like me saying this team just doesn't have, it
but two wanting to get rid Of Karl Anthony towns
and mckal bridges when both of them were probably at
the nadea of their. Value The knicks didn't Get on multiple,
occasions The knicks didn't like give into what might have
felt like enough evidence that they should have moved off
from this.
Speaker 1: Core they. Didn't and so like KEEPING i view not doing.
Speaker 2: Anything semi nuclear at the trade deadline or this past
offseason as almost a bigger accomplishment than The Donovan mitchell,
stuff because you AND i sat. HERE i remember that
conversation immediately after saying it was good they didn't Get
Donovan mitchell because, one they wouldn't have been good enough
anyway to be a contender after giving.
Speaker 1: Up all that. Stuff but, two look at what The
cavs gave up for, him and that was a lot of.
Speaker 2: Stuff so that to me just, feels even in, hindsight
like it was the easier decision in real, time the
not like giving into Oh god Like Karthy townsend McHale,
bridges or, like look at all we give For, Bridges
look what we're Paying.
Speaker 1: Towns not giving into that is the bigger.
Speaker 2: Deal and so, yes it tastes takes being, bold risky
acting when it's uncomfortable to act but we do sometimes
need to, celebrate, like, no the restraint, Matter like this
group doesn't get a chance to cole ace into one
of the most minute teams in postseason history if they're not.
Together and The, knicks to their, credit Very unknicks like
but and, look they took other. Risks they decided we're
gonna change the coach rather than the. Corps that's NOT i,
get that's an easier decision to. Make but if you
don't have the next coach lined, up or if or
if you even get through half the season and it's,
well he doesn't seem to be relating To Karl Anthony
towns that well these are So i'm more like celebrating
sometimes the moves not made or just as important as
the moves that.
Speaker 3: Were, yeah, WELL i think you could just say that
it's pretty clear that an element of what made The
knicks better than everybody else this year ultimately was, that,
like at the very, least everybody kind of understood what
was expected of, them and now roles, changed like kat
had to do a lot of different stuff for a,
while and so Did. Brunson but LIKE i, GET i
guess in some ways The knick's restraint was just a
bet on continuity, matters and like keeping a team together
for a while, Matters like if you're gonna say The
spurs were inexperienced and you, know didn't know what to
do to stop the bleeding and couldn't quite navigate some
of these tough exper tough, situations like you have to
acknowledge that The knicks were different and maybe a lot
of that was just because they have been through several series,
together they have had you, know heartbreak before like, That
like there's something to be said for just like let's
hold off and see if, yep maybe maybe this team
doesn't look like it has it, now but like at some,
point maybe the hole just does become more than the
sum of the, parts because there's something special about guys
that have like you've committed to sticking with and that empowers,
them and the experience they have together empowers. THEM i don't,
know it's a lot of wishy, washy non analytical, stuff
but like you don't win a title without like a
little faerry dust like sprinkled in there, Somewhere so like
the are all those, intangibles all the magic stuff like,
that all that's in there every time a team wins a,
title there's always that kind.
Speaker 2: Of thing that's gonna if if The spurs end up
winning it all next year and Dearon fox is on the,
Roster i'm gonna circle back to this and have another
victory lap of us having this discussion, like that's a
perfect thing sample of don't urgently rush out of this
if you have the right.
Speaker 1: Deal, now have they actually been able to get?
Speaker 2: You, honest there's a chance we're both probably a very
different discussion about. That their offseason look ahead has probably
already been.
Speaker 3: Done, yeah, right, right, right right, right all, right.
Speaker 1: Big, picture, Sir what do you got for?
Speaker 3: Us, uh let's start with depth means two different. THINGS
i don't know if you know, this but The spurs
had the sixth man of the year In Kelton. Johnson
dude was was that dude was mostly not helpful in
the series in a series when they needed, him And
Luke cornette. Was we love Lou cornett as a backup.
Center thought he was a great and he was like
he was a really good you, know he was useful
during the regular, season as Was. Johnson, obviously it's just
different in the playoffs and and the knicks Between Jose,
Alvarado landry shammittt Like Jordan clarkson showed. Up i'm Sure
i'm forgetting one or two guys that had their moments
during this.
Speaker 2: Run But Tyler COLLEGE Nba cup superhero doesn't Heal alvarado could.
Speaker 3: Run who's just absolutely Absolutely SO i think just it's
and this makes roster building tricky because it's Not i'm not, saying, like,
Well Keldon johnson is without, value like obviously he. Mattered
they don't win sixty games and have the seed that
they have without, him, Right and like same With, cornett
who had to play an increased role when When wemby
was out during the season in. Spurts like that stuff's.
Valuable BUT i just think to put a finer point on,
IT i think playoff depth or like finals caliber. DEPTH
i think that means guys that you can put in
the game and they can play exactly with the exactly
the same type of impact as you get from them
during the regular. Season so Like alvarado's gonna come in
and in the finals him playing like with batshit intensity
and dribbling all over and not you, know being able
to do all that stuff like that's the same you,
know that's the same thing he. Does Landry shammitt being
a good enough defender that can run hot and can
make shots, like that's the Same Keldon. Johnson driving straight
into traffic doesn't work great when the game plans ready
for you and there's more size and there's better you
know WHAT i. Mean like it's, there there's two different
kinds of, depth AND i think these finals really highlighted.
Speaker 2: THAT i think also to what might even span to
that is you need to do a really good job
of maximizing as many roster spots as, possible because it's
not like this is.
Speaker 1: Depth but it was also kind of obvious.
Speaker 2: Why did they have so many big like why Is Mason, Plumley,
Beyonmbo Olynic cornette And wemby.
Speaker 1: All on this? Roster like that's just you have, to
LIKE i feel, like redistribute your death.
Speaker 3: Better than the spurs, ultimately especially When Harrison barnes is
already your adult in the room like, that you don't
need three other dudes like that are there because they're
good locker room, presences, right were you just that paranoid
about Losing wemby and one even if like even if
you were which of those players are like, You you're done.
Anyway it doesn't like just because you Have plumbly And.
Byombo it's not, like well we're good, News we're gonna
we're gonna, throw gonna take a shotgun approach at. This
we've got. Enough that's just doesn't.
Speaker 1: Matter that's a good. ONE i have.
Speaker 2: One so NOW i think we get into, like, okay
looking at how that dealt depth is like built or
what you're reeling it to And i'm gonna throw to
not make one for.
Speaker 1: This this is good podcasting right. Here but all, right
SO i will fix it in. Post BUT i think
that you need to look at the ideal type of
big man just.
Speaker 2: Changing and SO i was noticing throughout the playoffs it
felt as if people were pretty like down on An
Evan mobley Or aaron A Jared allen or look what
happened To Chet holmgren.
Speaker 1: In The Western conference final. Series at, Points i'm not
looking At.
Speaker 2: Karl Anthony towns and kind of, thinking is that the
ideal big man in THE nba where it's you're not
just providing, stretch but you can play with physicality on
the offensive end and you're. Not at least this is
why he wouldn't be the ideal big. Man can he
give you enough consistently? Defensively and the answer for the
playoffs With towns was. Yes and so if you're not
gonna have, that BECAUSE i THINK i just described like
maybe one or two players in the ENTIRE, nba you
need to then kind of paper over that with multiple
big man, options where maybe we didn't feel it as
much when AN okc team was it was clear That
hungland wasn't playing. Well but when you have the you
can play a different you'll play different types of bigs In,
hartenstein in j will even Having Kenrich williams, there The
spurs didn't even really have that. Luxury it was sort
Of wenby this unsolvable force who plays physical but like
he isn't necessarily moving anybody all the, time Or Lou
cornett and that's. It SO i don't think that LIKE i,
yes chase the ideal big, man but the ideal big
man feels like an amalgam of like three or four
different types of skill like. Players and NOW i think
that's gonna need to be reflected in your big man
rotation because there might be no telling unless you're built
Around jokich Or wemby and you've just decided even if
it's not the best matchup for, them, like you're gonna
need to figure it out from there how to optimize. Them,
otherwise if your best player isn't your, center you probably
need like three different types of centers on the roster
because you're never gonna know when you might need to
use all of them or can't use this one and
need to use the other.
Speaker 3: Two, YEAH i think that's, Right and it used used
to be there were two. Kinds you needed your switchable
five that you, know Your draymond and or you needed
your just bruiser right, like and that even for a,
minute like nobody even needed the bruiser. Anymore BUT i
think the return of offensive rebounding and just the way
teams can scheme NOW i think you probably need that,
too unless you have A cat that can be all those?
Things is?
Speaker 1: It cat being the ideal big man is such just
a bizarre thing.
Speaker 3: To do when you really do step, Back, like one
of the takeaways from this run is Like cat is
really good at like a lot of, things and we
spent most of his career just fixated on the like
the dumb fouls and like that all, happened like there
were he did do all that, stuff like all the.
Speaker 1: Bats three of the final games in foul.
Speaker 3: Troubles, yeah, right like that's all, real but like we
got to zoom out and just conceee, that like that guy.
Work Like, okay he's the greatest shooting big of all.
Time like his three point shooting didn't mean shit in
the in this playoff, run like it, did like it didn't.
Matter what mattered was, Like, oh turns out he can
Guard wemby and turns out you can run an offense
through him for several series in a. Row and turns
out like he can drive Past wemby and. Finish there's
like three guys On earth that can do. That like
just that his talent level is off the charts and
and LIKE i don't, KNOW i mean he he he
played out of his. Mind. Right if you, said, man
The knicks won the, title cat played out of his,
mind and you told that to someone that didn't watch,
it that person would assume he made eight threes a
game or something like, that, Right and like you would
never in a million years imagine that the stuff he
did specifically was what it, was you, know like this
was of all the players on the team like, that,
DUDE i don't know he like apologies aren't in, order
but like maybe there is some LIKE i wasn't quite
familiar with your game that needs to be.
Speaker 2: Extended, RIGHT i think you could make the case that
he undermined more narratives Than John brunson, Did.
Speaker 3: Right, YEAH i think that's true because you would never
count on him to do exactly what he, did especially
in the finals and even before. That pretty. Amazing all,
Right i'll throw one out. Here THIS i think is
probably more we're really zoomed, out so this is like
maybe playoff wide Because i'll Just i'll just SAY i
THINK i think it's it's more clear to me than
ever that there is a threshold level of length and
athleticism that you must clear in order to be considered
like a realistic title threat The. Knicks you might not
think fit the bill there because Like brunson's neither long
nor particularly, athletic but like still real hard to guard
and moves, great but like between og and bridges and
cat even and even heart like can play up like
that was a, Enough but you look at the teams
like The spurs and The, thunder AND i mean even
throw The wolves in there, too but compare the nuh,
well like that's The nuggets are kind of one of
those right where it's like if you don't Have watson
and you don't Have Aaron, gordon suddenly you're looking pretty,
slow and suddenly you're looking pretty overmatched against like more athletic.
Teams SO i do think one of the real takeaways
we already harped on it is like the continuity and
the variability of like what you can ask STAR x
to do from series to series and games a game
like that. Stuff, well, experience all that stuff, matters but
the way the game is played, now like you just
have to have like a decent amount of youth and
athleticism and stamina and all that. STUFF i just don't
think you're ever gonna see like The knicks are not
an old team, Really like they're. Not it's not a
bunch of like thirty four year olds that figured it.
Out it's not like the ninety Six bulls or, something
or any of ninety Eight bouls for that, matter or
even like the twenty Two. Warriors you you are gonna
have to have like some get up and down some
like we can pressure ninety four, feet we can get
to the basket in two, dribbles like you need those.
GUYS i THINK i think the game has changed enough
to where you can't just get by on guile and
experience and all that. Stuff there has to be some
basic level of we have real. ATHLETES i don't know
that felt like a revelation to. Me maybe it doesn't
sound like one AS i say.
Speaker 2: It, NO i THINK i think you're right because even
in The, knicks not that they're a young, team But
Josh hart And Colon Anthony town's are the only rotation
players that are over the age of thirty And Jalen
clarkson was the only player in the quote unquote rotation
that was over the age of thirty.
Speaker 1: Three SO i think there's something to that for.
Speaker 2: Sure and you could mention the youth aspect that didn't
we just talk, about or maybe we'll talk about the
importance of, experience but it's it's a blend of, everything
and SO i would agree with, you. ESPECIALLY i think
the thing for me, is if you're gonna look at
some of the defenses you're, facing to face the full court,
defenses or the number of times that you're gonna like
switch or being these like try and do you know
pre switching or peel switching to derail certain actions that
like the athleticism at all is incredibly. Important and like
to harken back to what we're talking, about where maybe
if you don't have the ideal type of big, man
then how you Know jokic is your? Five how important
is it to just surround him with athleticism that can
cover around the basket for, him just as one.
Speaker 3: Example, Right, yeah it might just be like you don't
necessarily need all five to be you, know decathletes or.
Whatever but it's like if you're gonna you need like
a cumulative there's like A i don't, know if you're
like pouring the team's athleticism into a into a measuring,
cup it's got to hit a certain level collectively or
you're just you Don't you're gonna have a hard.
Speaker 1: Time the other.
Speaker 2: ONE i think this is always this has been on
the radar for a, while but it does feel as
if the threshold for minimizing weaknesses is increasing as, well
and so it's we're beyond just, oh this guy can't,
shoot so he can't, play or this guy can't, defend
so he can't. Play we saw and maybe this says
more about matchups or it speaks to having the depth
to be able to play around with your.
Speaker 1: Rotations but we saw The Knicks paul mckail bridges in crunch.
Speaker 2: Time we saw them Pull josh hart before all of a,
sudden when you look at the, Spurs Keldon johnson like
forget About Lou cornett or forget About Harrison. Morris didn't
look Like Kelden johnson should necessarily be in. There Elsewhere Lou,
Dort Isaiah. Hartenstein and so it feels as if the
bar for what constitute constitutes a weak link has. Raised and,
yes it's a lot about, matchups but that kind of
bleeds into it's, like, well you need to build your
team in the image of just how many players can
we have with this few holes as, possible and we're
not at the star like your top three player level.
Anymore it's, like, no like spots like four through eight
in the rotation also need to mirror this as.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, NO i think that's. Right it's definitely this
is probably like a decade or so since LIKE i
THINK i remember hearing at, first Like Bob myers said
at one. Time it's just And i'll get it, wrong
but it was basically, like you to really be a
serious championship, threat you sort of can't have any guys, that,
oh there's an obvious thing that that will force that
will result in them being played off the. Floor like
you just you can't be a guy that like takes
something critical off the table because every, defense like defense
will just figure that. Out our offenses will figure that.
Out so, yeah LIKE i, MEAN i, THINK i think
what we're circling with a lot of these points is
just like you need everything to win a championship, year including,
luck including, luck, right, yeah like if you've you've You're
Malcolm brognen thing like if he if he doesn't, retire
is he on this team and is somebody that's critical
not like maybe.
Speaker 1: And it's even just you look at what happens on the.
Speaker 2: Floor The knicks finished a plus one fifty from beyond
the arc opponent SHOT i think under thirty two percent
from three against them in the. Playoffs you could say
what you want about The knicks. Defense this is coming
from A knicks. Fan they got so lucky that that
something like that.
Speaker 3: Happened what are we talking about If Jalen brunson misses
the three at the end of game four five degrees
in one direction or another and not exactly to the
spot Where og gets, it, Right, like that's just be
where are we who? Knows who knows what happens?
Speaker 2: From they were also on the other, end like they
experienced the other end of this last year With game
one against The pacers and the conference finals as.
Speaker 3: Well, right, yeah we. CANNOT i MEAN i would love.
To if no one will ever figure this, OUT i
think it's it's not, quantifiable but like luck is a
pretty clearly non zero contributor to basically every title. TEAM i,
mean like even though The, knicks just like, you but,
whatever they had the most dominant twelve, game, thirteen fourteen
fifteen game streak of of all of all, day.
Speaker 1: But like they had the highest point differential and, yeah,
official like.
Speaker 3: That's JUST i don't know and yet and yet IF
og doesn't get if the ball bounces three inches, Higher
og doesn't get it and tip it in and just
turn the series into something very.
Speaker 1: Different so you And hi are preview In game, six,
right now, right like you we're Doing, yeah AND i.
Speaker 3: Mean there have been like If wemby doesn't have a,
brain fart and throw it Off Steph castle's back at
the end of what was a game? Two like it
just everyone well this series in, particular every single game
had like a couple hinge moments where it could have
gone either.
Speaker 1: Way the series was so.
Speaker 2: Epic you love having the fact you have so many
what if moments in in. Miniature just this five game
pocket of the.
Speaker 1: Series is, incredible.
Speaker 3: Unbelievable let's keep running down the list. HERE i. CAN'T
i think this is probably one that that you, generated
but we we should discuss, it like there's more than
one way to build a championship. Team, uh just you
look at The. Spurs, yeah, NO i know every you
know The spurs build this through the. Draft that that's
just what it. Is they they and it sort of
well they traded For, Fox, yeah but As fox there
if they don't Draft wemby almost definitely not like it
just there's the the the core of this roster is
you Drafted, wemby you Drafted, castle you Drafted, harper and
those are all top what was the top four?
Speaker 1: Packs, yeah, Picks.
Speaker 3: And, yeah there's luck involved in that, too by the,
way because the ping pong balls bounced the way that
they did to enable some of. Those but there's, that
and then there's The knicks that we've gone, through we've
on this pod and many. Before it's like free agency
played a massive factor huge, trades just like cap. Management
there's all this other stuff like What, Mitchell robinson And
Deuce are those the Only knicks picks that really mattered
in this in this? Series Like i'm trying to think
who else did?
Speaker 1: They?
Speaker 3: Yeah did they? EVEN i mean to have played at,
all like to have played a significant. ROLE i, mean
there's just so, okay that's, obvious. Right these are two
different teams that were built very very. DIFFERENTLY i think
we have worried a little bit, about like, well with
lottery reform and with the aprons and, stuff and with
free agency just kind of going away like what are
the options gonna? Be AND i GUESS i don't, know
do you think it's encouraging, that, like, well at least
you've got two very recent examples of, like well there's
clearly not just one way to do, this you, Know
is that encouraging or is it just, like, well these
are both just such sort of, lucky you, know happenstance
kinds of things that maybe there's not a model.
Speaker 1: HERE i think it should.
Speaker 2: Be it could be discouraging because you can look at
it this. Way New york is The knicks and are
able to take risks that other teams can't be more
desirable in ways that, like it's just the, market it's.
Speaker 1: That's how it.
Speaker 2: Is The, spurs then we're talking about lottery reform where
you're never gonna have three consecutive top five picks on
the same.
Speaker 1: Roster, ever at LEAST i don't think ever. Again and
so that could be.
Speaker 2: Discouraging but if The spurs end of that is, DISCOURAGING
i do think The knicks's end is encouraging Because Jalen
brunson is the only player that they didn't trade for
and then.
Speaker 1: Keep and we've seen that teams if they like remember
the Thunder trader For Paul.
Speaker 2: George they did wind up retrading him two years, later
but they got him to sign another. Contract The cavaliers
were not On Donovan mitchell's perceived list of trade. DESTINATIONS
a half decade, later we're talking about whether they should
be the team offering him an. Extension SO i think
it's encouraging in the sense that if you're willing to
take risks and acquire, players that are you, know in
The knicks's, case everyone with the exception of Og An,
andobe wasn't speeding towards free. Agency but there was even
with og do you remember there was that alliance with
The clippers The sixers excuse, me real or not that
definitely got him over the two hundred million dollar threshold
with The, knicks or maybe got him that fifth. Year
SO i find that more encouraging because it's. Easy it's The,
knicks SO i think it's easy to, say, well you
can't hold they can't be a standard for the rest
of THE. Nba AND i agree to some extent if
they were built entirely off of one free agency or
two acquiring guys in contract. Years but you know, what
the contract year thing might even be outmoded at this.
Point who eaves in free agency anymore unless you apparently
play for The.
Speaker 1: Mavericks LIKE i JUST.
Speaker 2: I think that that should be, encouraging is that you
can just look at it and, say if you're willing to,
yes it might not always be, easy and you do
have to get lucky in a lot instances or make
a series of. Moves is not gonna happen. Overnight BUT
i think not any team could have built this roster
because of The jaallen brunts en off at. All but
you look at how they filled out the roster after of.
Him any other team could have done that in THE
nba without being. Terrible SO i think that's. Encouraging, yeah
the let's get to the superstar trend thing THAT i might.
Be so we kind of alluded to this. BEFORE i
don't think when we're talking about rookie scale extensions or
maybe even that when you're looking At Anthony edwards's next,
contract we're gonna start seeing players take. Less but when
you're getting to the stage of your career like A
yannis extension eligible this, summer Like Donovan mitchell extension eligible this,
summer even Like Nikola, JOKIC i think there's a binary
choice for you now is do you want to sign
for the full max and trust that the front office
will figure it out while knowing they will never just
spend interminally into the second apron or? Two are you
willing to take less Where In Jalen brunson's, CASE i
think the when you look at the, years the player,
options how much did he actually save the knickses up
in the. Air it's about twelve plus million dollars a,
year which is close to the mid level? Exception so
are you willing to do something like? That AND i
agree with you that it feels icky to put the
onus on the. Players WHAT i will say is the
current salary cap has and will always be collectively. Bargained
AND i do think now with the second, apron and
not even the tax payments associated with, it but just
the team building, restrictions frozen draft, picks can't aggregate, salaries
can't take back more money than you, receive so, on
not having access to the mid level, exception so on
and so. Forth those stuff that's in place now it
was collectively. BARGAINED i think you get to a certain
point where you do have to take a step back and, say,
well how DO i want to spend the latter half
of my? Prime And i'm, wondering AND i might be,
wrong BECAUSE i thought we were going to see inflection
points with contract negotiations with A Daron fox or A Jaron.
Speaker 1: Jackson, junior and we didn't this past.
Speaker 2: Summer BUT i think we're really gonna get to a
point where this is maybe more, common or another way
it might be saying this of everyone talking about how
the three max model is, DEAD i feel like we're
almost approaching a point where the two veteran max model is. Dead,
rookie the fun max is, okay it's a little twenty
five percent of the salary cap a little bit. Different
but you look at The knicks and just that they
were made possible because their best, player which kind of
underminds my point about any team could have built, them
any team could have gotten those other.
Speaker 1: Players it was my.
Speaker 2: Point But jumpers was your third highest paid player this.
Year that's, LIKE i don't think it needs to be that,
Stark but could you have would you have been comfortable
trading For Karl Anthony towns not knowing, that or would
you be comfortable going out five years on The ogananobe
deal not knowing. THAT i think this is something that's
at least going to become more of Not, oh, Look
lebron took one million lesson then talked about it for
the next ten. YEARS i think there's it might take
a larger concession on the part of the, players, which
by the, WAY i don't think is right in the.
Back but that's THE cba at The Players' Union Players
association collectively, Barking.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's a that's a good. POINT I SO i
remember When kobe. Signed this must have been like twenty
ten or twenty eleven or something somewhere around. There it
was like two years and the max at the time
was like forty eight million, dollars which is hilarious to
think about right, Now and AND i remember it. Was
it was at a point WHERE i wasn't thinking about
it from the PERSPECTIVE i do now of LIKE i
oversimplified it BECAUSE i was annoyed by all the myth
making associated With, kobe and it was like all he
cares about is. Winning all he cares about is. Winning, well,
no that's not, true because if that were the, case
then he would have taken way less so The lakers
could build a better team around. Him and like that
is just still. True that is just still. True where, like,
yes it's it is the owner's, money and like there
are ways to spend whatever you want up to a certain,
point but it comes it's just like you don't get
to say ALL i want to do is win and
then SAY i will not take less than the max
because that's my market. Value like you just sort of
cannot have it both ways as a. Player AND i
Think i'm skeptical that even with all the all the
sort of driving forces you, mentioned that we're gonna see
the bruntson scenario become anything close to a norm or
even be repeated at. All like take Like Steph curry
is a good, Example LIKE i don't think he's taking
less than the max and if he wants to play
the relevant basketball that that The warriors claim to like
shouldn't he should like shouldn't shouldn't and him, too considering
the money he's made to this, point, which by the,
way like that's what Makes brunson even more incredible that
dude had never been, maxed you, know and he and
he's and he it wasn't, like Well i've made, yes
he he he was gonna be comfortable no matter what
after the first deal he signed with The, knicks but
like he never he never made like true max money
and then was Like i'm, good Now i'll take. Less
someone Like steph is you know this generational wealth many times,
over AND i think he's getting the max and just
like that would be one you point to is, like,
well if this is a, trend then let's let's see.
IT i Just i'm Maybe i'm just more. CYNICAL i don't,
KNOW i KNOW i think continue, WELL i.
Speaker 1: Don't first of, all players probably.
Speaker 2: Don't steph probably feels like he shouldn't take, less especially when,
him of all, people that first extension he signed ended
up and that was taken because the end that was.
Speaker 3: The market rate for. HIM i WILL i. DIDN'T i
famously was, LIKE i don't know about this. One we signed.
Speaker 2: It my followupoints that though two would be could it
be more about the organization might need to sell him on.
It in The warriors, case they've kind of played like
even before the twenty two title it like ever Since
Kevin durant, left it's been we're hedging and trying to
stay in the middle of these two.
Speaker 1: Times we're not going all in on any one or.
Speaker 2: Anything and if You're, steph why would you if For
brunton more, recently it's easier for him to well and
want his dad's a, coach His godfather is like running The,
Knicks like those are ties you can't quantify for.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah but look at what.
Speaker 2: The knicks have, done like you can trust, That, okay
they're going To maybe you could trust The warriors will
spend on the talent they already. Have do you trust
they're gonna go out and make the swings the risk
on the right town And steph's, case the answer is.
No and this might be by the Way steph has four,
titles and even If yokich or A yiannis each have a,
title this might be more geared towards A Donovan mitchell
type where it's like they're on the fringes of do
you think that they should be the the number one?
Option The Jalen browns like that he already has a,
title of, course like those types of players who maybe
don't have a, ring maybe it's been a while since
they last won, one or EVEN i would point To
giannis Or joki is a good.
Speaker 1: Example right now you are Three janni's, case half a
decade removed from winning a.
Speaker 2: Title if you want more than, one that's a decision
you need to, make SO i you could end. UP
i think your stance is probably the safer. One but
Then i'm also kind of wondering until the NEXT cpa is,
negotiated even if it, is if these sort of team
building restrictions and thresholds are going to remain in, place
we're gonna continue to SEE i, think just a bunch of,
parody whereas we've now had eight different.
Speaker 1: Champions and this IS i didn't throw this in the,
outline BUT i saw some of the.
Speaker 2: Discourse you like that there are some people lamenting the
lack of a dynasty right now to hate and other
people thinking this is, beautiful which IS i find that
a legitimate talking point in the sense THAT i understand
both sides of.
Speaker 3: It, YEAH i think like my formative basketball experiences were
involved dynasties and, that and like so it's hard to be, like,
well is that objectively better or is that just sort
of WHAT i like am comfortable, with like the the Two,
bulls Three, peats and EVEN i don't, know like the
early two Thousands, lakers and like it just, anecdotally it
felt like good teams were good for a little, longer you,
know go even going back a decade, ago or it's
like The spurs were just there all the, time and you,
know The heat obviously had had a longer run and
The warriors are. There of, Course i'm not mad at,
it THOUGH i. DON'T i DON'T i see the appeal of.
PARODY i THINK i do think there's an. ARGUMENT i
don't know if, everybody anybody ever settled the argument of,
like is it better for the league to have a
goalie that needs to be slain or is it better
if fifteen teams go into every season thinking, like, well
maybe you, know could could we could do? It? Like
which which? IS i think there's there's merit to.
Speaker 1: BOTH i.
Speaker 3: Do WHAT i do feel confident in is like the
parody thing is not going. AWAY i really. DON'T i
think that the way that THE cba has kind of
laid things out, now it's just very very hard to
stay dominant for a long. TIME i like The, CELTICS
i guess are you, know could be right back there
and maybe if they win, one then you got a
team that's won a couple in what a what is
it will be four? Years? Yeah so so, yeah like,
that maybe that's as close as you get where you
get the one and then you're just you hang on
and you retool a little bit and you're right back
there with like some of the same core in in
three or four. Years but LIKE i, JUST i, MEAN
i don't see the team that's unless it's The, SPURS i,
guess or maybe The thunder that's gonna run off two
or three in a. Row but they. Don't they want.
That they're gonna have to go through each, other so
that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Either it also adds another element of it's it's just
a different type Of first it was can you unseat this?
Dynasty but it's also now it's, well who's gonna? Be
can anyone become a dynasty in a league that's built
to repress, dynasties which is another, wrinkle and it does
kind of the final ONE i had leads me to
the why not us is officially the right. Mindset AND
i say, THIS i don't really know The knicks this,
Year like, aw they built their team was a very
why not, us LIKE i guess way to get. There
maybe the Con Anthony town trade might be the biggest
reflection of, that but more so The, spurs, RIGHT i
don't know what the move was for them at the,
deadline but if you're The pistons of this, year The
rockets of this. Year when we're sitting here talking about
all this parody and how long it's gonna be, There
I'M i never gave this much much. Credence one of
the biggest forms of RESPECT i ever had was The
rockets going for it during that Like Warriors Kevin durant era, yep.
Speaker 1: And LIKE i. Respected it didn't pan, out BUT i respected.
Speaker 2: It now it's you don't get to sit there and, say, like,
well like, okay seeing The spurs are just could run
the table. Forever both of those, teams they were not
the best version of. Themselves The spurs aren't experienced enough
yet and The thunder were banged. Up BUT i guess
what THAT'S i just feel like that could always be
on the. Table you don't know what injuries are gonna shape.
This you have to win Ninety oh my, god why
CAN'T i do? Math and you're going through like over
one hundred games every. Year if you win the championship
or get to the finals every all this stuff could
just come. Up and The knicks might be an example
of you might just peek at the right. Time The,
knicks they had shown flickers and, flashes nothing like we're
just gonna play two months of some of the most
dominant basketball that you have ever.
Speaker 1: Seen SO i want to see.
Speaker 2: More you know, what if you're not on The yannis
trade wish, list trade For yiannish, anyway if you think
that you're in a position to win a, title this
is to me is, yeah the thunder might still be,
there but even they're going through some financial hurdles that
they're gonna have to. Clear there's A i want to
see more like, General maybe not if you want to
call it risk, taking but like there's there's no time
like the. Present AND i think even The, spurs not
that they aired this, year but my most reckless take
would be if you think that The Iron fox isn't
the right, fit then you don't, Wait like now would
be the time to do that because you are this
good Now and we could sit here and say this.
Speaker 1: Is the worst where ever gonna?
Speaker 2: Be CAN i sit here and also, say, well this
might be the healthiest that your youngster is ever gonna.
Be MAYBE i hope, not But i'm this is to,
ME i think why not? Us is LIKE i need
that needs to be like the default mindset among team.
Speaker 3: Building, now, YEAH i think that's, right AND i, think,
LIKE i don't, know it's a comfortable idea for me
Because i'm not as good at the, like let's think
of the transaction that's gonna improve this team as you
are and a lot of people. Are so it's LIKE
i think a lot of WHAT i said about The
knicks last year was LIKE i, KNOW i said, this
like it's really hard to get even this, good and
so anything you do might is very likely to just
make you. Worse and if you can be this, good
which is to, say a team that, LIKE i don't,
know over a couple of, years wins two or three playoff,
series you, know spread out over multiple, seasons like if
you're kind of in the mix and you can squint
and be, like, well they could have been a conference
finalist if this had gone this way or this bounce
had gone that. Way like the goal should be to
get that good and kind of stay that good for
as long as you, can because maybe you wait out
teams that get, hurt or teams that fall, apart or
teams that are hasty and blow it. Up like it
almost makes me think like the roster building objective can't
just be we have to be so clearly on the
level of the thunder or the spurs or. Whatever it's,
like if you can envision yourself like getting within a
game or two of a conference, FINAL i THINK i
think that just should tell you. That like that all, right,
twet like tinker on the edges or, whatever like go
get Your Landry shamitz and your Jse alvarado's but like
it's really hard to be much better than. That and
at that point it's just you need a break and
some luck and like you gotta run, hot and that's
the best you can, do especially in a in a
parody an era that's going to be defined and has
been defined by, parody like just be pretty, good hope
things go your, way and don't don't get. Impatient imagine
if The knicks had not done, that The knicks had
every reason to be impatient and say screw. It cat's
not it can't can never be the number, two or
we gave up too much for. Bridges we, should you,
know get what we can on the way. Out it's
just this isn't. It and they didn't do, that and
here they are AND i will recognize.
Speaker 2: This Opens i'll say me personally up to a level
of hypocrisy by someone who sat here and, SAID i
don't think The coves should go out and, trade be.
Honest so there's always going to be those two different
ends Of but like if you believe that like your
window is the next two to three years And giannis
is better suited for, it then, yes that's the why
not us? Thing BUT i mentioned more so of the
teams that are trying to get over the hump that
made like The, pistons The spurs types like those are
the teams where it's look and even The. PACERS i
didn't like the zoo box trade and still, don't BUT
i do have a respect for. It where It's tyre's
Halliburt i sat there said don't you want to see
what he looks like upon return before making such a big,
Move and they've decided, No like it's our, contender windows open,
Now Pascal, Siakam is this? Now Tyre's halliburton was just
this a year and change. Ago So i'm looking forward
to seeing whether teams maybe. OPERATE i don't want to
say if it's with more, urgency but more recognition of
we can, win like it takes if we're gonna need
a few lucky breaks either. Way why not do our
part to not wait and, say you know, what we're young,
enough it's, early we'll be back. Here because, yeah you
know who said that the twenty Twelve thunder and they
were That core wasn't even back the next.
Speaker 1: Season mm.
Speaker 3: Hm and That, core by the, way was like everything
we're saying about The, spurs like rewind a little. BIT
i think there might have been some even More outlandis
takes on That Thunder core and, yeah there's nothing's. PROMISED
i think the WE'RE i think we're, acknowledging LIKE i don't, know,
man there's a lot of takeaways here related to this
the why not us things, specifically and maybe you said,
THIS i JUST i just think the fine point needs
to be put on, it like the idea, that, well
there's this team that's really really, good say The thunder
or The spur or, whatever so like we're just gonna
slow roll this a little. Bit like that's, Dumb like
that's like you just there's there's NO i don't know
what the team would need to look like that would
justify several other potential threats deciding like, nah we're we're
we're not gonna go for. IT i don't even know
if that's the thing that, happens but you hear that
a lot right where it's, like, oh this is just,
wait wait a little, bit and the wonder will be
worse and then we'll go for. It doesn't make sense right,
Now they're too. Good we can't beat. Them that's always
the wrong, choice.
Speaker 1: Right AND i think that we have the most we
ever saw.
Speaker 2: IT i think you could just there was very clearly
it felt like people were holding themselves back during like
The Calves warriors finals reigns where just.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah and but the ca well, YEAH i was
gonna say with The calves beat, them but like The
caves were that other. TEAM i, mean even the The.
Heatles everybody's, like why even? Try now With lebron And
wade And, bosh and it's you.
Speaker 2: Know there's always the, why there's always a why even try?
Team and those teams don't win every, title so they.
Speaker 3: Won out of, four so it's the reason why you
try is fifty chance of winning a title against that.
Speaker 2: TEAM i THINK i think what you, said, though also
speaks to it's not even just the, wine not us
element you don't don't, ever AND i don't think teams
actually do, This but if you're building any part of
your core with the idea of we need to Beat TEAM,
X i think you've already. Lost and it's not like
the Timber wolves kind of did that with The. Nuggets
it felt like and it's like worked out okay for
them because they just keep beating The nuggets and they
made it the conference.
Speaker 1: Finals i'm not saying that's what they, did but it
comes to.
Speaker 2: More it's more about like having me, adaptability the, variability
and there's so much else that goes into. It but
the why not us coupled with the you don't need
like never be afraid or like be looking at one
team when you're making.
Speaker 3: Decisions you think The knicks built this team starting four
years ago because they're, like we're gonna have to do
something with.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like thirteen right.
Speaker 1: Now the only move THAT i think you maybe THE og,
one but LIKE i would look.
Speaker 3: Against anybody Like OG's the most plug and, Play Like.
Speaker 2: Carty towns is probably the closest we've seen the like
The wemby foil and that was not a move that's no.
Speaker 3: Might, ever it's never in a million, years. Right, Yeah
so that's a great, Point like there's there's no team
that you you gotta. Play you can't count on who
you're gonna. Play you can't count on who's gonna be
healthy for that. Team you can't count on when you're
gonna Face you just need to be you know what
here it is to win a. Championship you need to
have the most good players that play really good at
the right. TIME i feel LIKE i feel like we.
Speaker 1: Could could you you, know you're like, blistering, Right CAN
i carve that.
Speaker 3: In stone somewhere as like the only championship?
Speaker 2: Commandment did we just spend eighty plus minutes say absolutely nothing?
Speaker 1: Other?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah you need the most good players and they
got to play good and then you'll be.
Speaker 2: Good that's that's spicy and, complex BUT i respect you
for having the bravery to say.
Speaker 1: IT i have one final thing to.
Speaker 2: Say we don't wrap up around these parts, ever And
i'm not announcing that the grant The Hardman Knox show is.
Ending it's been, Real it's been a great one for,
you but it is the end of the, season AND
i just want to know this was like Our we've
been this podcast in running since twenty. Fifteen no one
ELSE i would rather do this. With this was a,
blast not just because The knicks, one but and there's
no off season for, Us like off season is kind
of our on season with the amount of content we put,
Out so there's no good time to just like take
a step back and respect what we've.
Speaker 1: Done BUT i enjoy the, hours countless hours you AND
i have just.
Speaker 2: Been thinking deeply about, basketball these grown adults putting a
ball through a. Hoop it's been a genuine. Joy it's
probably never gonna be a joy again if The knicks
aren't winning the.
Speaker 1: TITLE i guess is this just peak?
Speaker 2: Past BUT i wanted to shout you, out wanted to
shout our audience.
Speaker 1: Out we do put in a lot of, work a
lot of, episodes but it is it is a lot of.
Speaker 2: Fun and there's just no good time to pause and, reflect,
really so we're in pause and reflection mode at the.
Moment SO i FIGURED i would just very much enjoy
doing this WITH i certified fantabulous Mister.
Speaker 3: GRAY i appreciate an echo everything you. SAID i WISH
i had known that there was gonna be an expression
of sincere. SENTIMENT i usually need a good forty eight
hours to build up the the preparedness to do.
Speaker 2: That you promise to give me a firm hamshake once
we meet in. Person SO i am going to take
that promise.
Speaker 3: To MY i, mean, yeah especially now that you're you're
in The Champions, Club So i'll teach you the, secret.
Speaker 1: Especially NOW i can NOW i can actually clue.
Speaker 3: You in on, like, yeah there's just so much you
don't know. It just get. Ready it's going to be
a really eye opening a few. Months the parades are,
Cool you're.
Speaker 1: Gonna enjoy the, Parade but, no you told me how
like fun like that would have.
Speaker 3: Been it's hard to just LIKE i could have, tried and,
honestly LIKE i don't have a firm grasp on, it
like cause it's it's just it's a weird feeling when
your team wins. It it's it's it's, like what do
you do with? Yourself you, know you don't you don't
like you didn't know what it was going to feel
like you the surreality we talked. About but to circle,
back like one hundred percent, AGREE i treasure our, treasure our.
Chats thank you to everybody that's listening and watching for
making this possible and allowing us to continue to do
this great, season great ending by like it's just a
little better because we had an awesome series that was
super compelling and it did result, in, uh the outcome
that gave you maximal. Happiness.
Speaker 1: Right the only.
Speaker 2: Complaint is the basketball fan in me is you always
want like an epic finals to close the.
Speaker 1: Year this was, epic but, like we needed at least
one more game of. This i'll say that even as
A knicks, fan it's we needed at least one more
game of.
Speaker 2: This you know what's gonna invariably happen when it's lost
to history is it's just not gonna be talking about
it in the same way because it lasted five games
and it says four to one on no one's gonna not.
Speaker 1: Enough people are gonna think that it was determined by twelve.
Speaker 2: Points and you know, what there is a there is
a realm if they are, different if there's a, multiverse
one of them includes The spurs just winning this four to,
zero because that's how close though every single game one.
Speaker 3: And and there's one where the knicksweep. TOO i mean
like we were almost in that.
Speaker 1: One but but, like, NO i, agree are they're directly above?
US i? Think is? That or below? Us if you.
Speaker 3: Sit it's one of those ones where it's like if
you simulated one hundred games between these, teams like or
it simulated one hundred, series it might be like a
fifty to fifty, Split and which is nuts to say
about a four to one right for to one comes
nowhere close to capturing what this series. Was just it's
not even it's a, joke total.
Speaker 1: Joke you have anything else for the, kids or are
you ready to take us out of? HERE i don't think.
Speaker 3: So thanks for very for one last, time until till
the very next, time right until we do this in
a few. Days rate, review, subscribe do all that. Stuff
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tell your, friends tell your, enemies enjoy the off season
content COMING. Nba don't look either away cranking out on A.
Speaker 1: Tuesday what we just do The rapps in Like.
Speaker 3: August that's not gonna map shout spraying pina. Fologies Jared
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