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more than it already has. Thank you so much. I
want to welcome everyone back to the Pikmiona Show. Josiah
Leppincott's back. How you been man?
Speaker 2: I'm well as well as you can be. In Kamala
Harris's America, where it seems like we get to have
an assassination attempt, you know every month? Is that?
Speaker 1: What are we going to call this to Kamala cycle?
If it happens every month.
Speaker 2: I think Darren Beidi had a great tweet where he said,
you know, you can tell if Joe Biden, if Donald
Trump has won a given presidential debate, by whether or
not there's an assassination attempt in the following week. I
thought was astute and interesting observation.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. How's your how are your studies gone along?
How are you you've done or what's going on?
Speaker 2: No, it's great. So I'm currently three or five chapters
deep on the dissertation, and so I'm working in the
fourth chapter now and then getting in corrections to the committee.
So the chapter I'm working on right now is on
FDR and really the lead up to Pearl Harbor. So
I'm focusing on the Muckedin incident in China, the Japanese response,
Japanese articulation of their foreign policy, and then FDR's own
approach to foreign policy. Right now, so finding a bunch
of great stuff regarding the sort of pre war order
as it was developing in the nineteen thirties. So I'm
uncovering new stuff every single day, stuff that I hadn't known.
So right now I'm getting into FDR's early articulation of
his foreign policy. So that comes out in his vice
presidential run in nineteen twenty, and it's really all there.
I mean, I'm kind of surprised by how much of
it is so early present. The same language he would
use to describe World War two is the language that
he would use then when running for vice president. Also
a very nasty campaign. He said some pretty pretty terrible
things about herding in that run. So very very interesting.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, the uh, it's interesting that the further you
go and the more books you get, the more you learn.
Like I really have taken on the Spanish Civil War
as something that I want to know as much about
as possible, and like there are tons of books right
now that have not been translated out of Spanish, and
like every every time a book gets translated out of Spanish,
we learned something new. I mean, like like a like
a huge, huge subject that's opened up.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, something similar is happening with World War two.
I think in the Far East, especially, Spanish is a
proto Indo European descended language, so it's relatively easy for
Westerners to learn, but Japanese is not that way. So
Japanese is much harder to learn to read, and reading
older documents poses additional challenges. So, for instance, the language
the Japanese of the Imperial Court is very different from
ordinary Japanese as I understand it. So, you know, one point,
when I was living in Japan while deployed there, I
got interested in trying to learn the language just to
see what it was like. And it arguably just it
poses a very high barrier of entry for the ability
to read and translate these documents. So so much of
what we really honestly need in order to understand the
Japanese frame of mind, is it really accessible. It's still
kind of behind this wall of translation. So a big
problem there, definitely.
Speaker 1: All Right, well, let's talk about what's going on at home. Yeah,
we already mentioned it. Two assassination attempts of someone running.
I saidate, yeah, you know, not like the assassination attempt
on Reagan who had been elected or Gerald Ford who
was in office. No, this is someone who's been president
is running again. And it seems that and we can
talk about the difference between the first shooter alleged shooter,
and the second guy, because there's a there's a big
difference in those But I mean, this is this is
unprecedented and really in yeah, in twenty twenty four politics.
Speaker 2: I'm not even shocked. Yeah, I know, I just I
was talking to a friend this afternoon and she was
just noting that, Yeah, it's like we've just gotten used
to this. This is probably of our politics now, and
that's a very dangerous state of affairs. I think what
I'm taking away from this sec Con shooter is that
the Ukraine War is the single most important issue to
the DC rulined establishment. Nothing else even comes close. Inflation, immigration,
all the the the kitchen table issues that voters think
are important in Washington, d C. War with Russia is
the number one priority of both among Republicans and among Democrats,
and you know, people are talking about well personally, I
think the second shooter, that Ryan Ruscott, I think he
totally met with some very high ranking Democrats and Republicans.
I think he was in their presence. I don't know
how seriously they took him, but you know, like I
put a tweet out where I asked Alexander Vinman, I said,
did you ever meet with this guy? Immediately blocked doesn't
answer the question. His wife is meanwhile, basically cheering on
the assassination. No ears were harmed by this attempted shooting.
So what I'm guessing. You know that guy was in Kiev,
he was in d C. He lived in Hawaii. Allegedly,
oh ha's three thousand dollars a month. But somehow he's
all over the place. He's interviewed in the New York Times.
This is the kind of crazy person who fifty years
ago would not have been allowed anywhere near the center
of power. Like that's not how that's going to go.
But now you have major institutions gassing someone like this up,
and it's a big problem, and it's it's yeah, it is.
It's shocking that in this you know, twenty twenty four,
this has just become part of our politics. And it's
also as Elon must point it out, why are they trying?
Why are all the assassinations going one way? Why are
they all aimed for Trump? He's not in power, right,
He's not the president, So why you know? And I
don't mean that, you know, hopefully the Secret Service won't
come knocking on my door. And I don't mean that
because I want assassinations. I'm saying that should lead us
to ask some very tough questions about the American political
discourse right now.
Speaker 1: Well, the second shooter, this Ryan Rath guy, if they
actually set him up to do this, they're or moronic
because he wrote a book, he's in a black Rock ad.
He's what else he got arrested for and never since
a prison for possession of a WMD. Yeah, like he
got stopped in traffic and had a bomb and it
turned into an escalated into a whole situation. Yeah, I
mean this is but when you look at this guy,
you have to wonder. Now obviously see I we know
that he's met with countless people, countless people, Yeah, and
he's been over there, done this. I mean has obviously
has means yet it's so marvel brained. It's like so
like he has that Marvel brain thing where it's like,
well I'm gonna take a shot at the president or
I mean, then he doesn't get they take him alive,
there's something and he has a Harris Biden and sticker
on his car. Man, it just seems you know at
this point, if you're making fun I mean I've said
some things about conspiracy theories where I'm just like, look
the narrative if you can build a construct, a narrative
off of these things. It's more important than the conspiracy itself.
It's kind of hard to just it's kind of hard
to just look and go, I mean this, how are
you not a conspiracy theorist at this point?
Speaker 2: I mean, you have to do you have to be well, no, no, no, Pete.
You have to understand people who are in power never
work together to preserve their power, and the enormous, multi
billion dollar national defense establishment would never ever, ever have
anyone in there doing anything wrong. No, I think you're
exactly right. And what's so striking to me is that
you know, have you read this novel, the Joseph Conrad
novel The Secret Agent. I highly recommend it. I'm recommended
to your audience as well. He's in that novel. The
main character is basically a fed. He's infiltrated a country
on behalf of another power. But he's a radical designed
to stoke you know, basically radical politics on behalf of
this foreign entity. But the problem is he's basically a
bullshitter who spends his time talking to other radicals and
they don't do anything. Well, finally, the people who are
paying his check are like, you need to do something
meaningful with the money that we're giving you. So he
ends up launch helping to launch this false flag attack. Well,
he gets a mentally disabled guy to carry a bomb
into a public square, and ways of what happens is
is the mentally disabled guy blows himself up and it
causes this whole chain reaction of idiocy and competence in Bowery.
But there's a mixture of true fanaticism, you know, basically
the workings of another power, and then you have people
who are either insane or mentally retarded who are then
caught up in that system and then weaponized. And I
think we see something very similar in our own time
like this. This is like just a picture perfect example.
Conrad already had this over one hundred years ago on
how the modern security establishment works. And so, you know,
will we ever know this Ryan Ruth guy had state sponsorship.
I don't know, but it sure looks really strange, and
it looks it's just the pattern in the mount model
of what's going on here. So people are right to
ask questions and to be skeptical.
Speaker 1: I think it's become painfully obvious over the last two
and a half years. That to the regime. That and
it's both sides the regime. There are very few who
deviate from this, very few. Ukraine is Ukraine and Russia
is incredibly important to them. Yeah, and at this point
you have to wonder, okay, if you're it almost it
almost seems like someone wants World War three, Like somebody
wants these missiles to start going, you know, these missiles
to start flying. Yeah, and well why why? And I
haven't really formulated this, but normally it always comes back
to something financial. Something is something in the financial system,
in the world financial system. And I mean because I've
never Iraq was never this important. Afghanistan, even though we're
in twenty years, was never this is like, this is
life and death to them. And I can't help but
think that that's the reason why, you know, people keep
trying to kill Trump.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they know that he'll Yeah. I think there's definitely
a financial element. I mean, their defense contractor is making
a lot of money off of the war, So you
can't ignore an incentive like that. I think also, but
more importantly, is the view of justice, the ideological view
very important. I really think the consensus view among most
of the people in DC is that this is a
war of righteousness. It's being waged against eternal evil manifested
in Vladimir Putin, who is you know, basically the you know,
as one various two observer friend of mine puts it,
you know, using the Islamic isis formulation. You know, Putin
is the thirteenth in visible Hitler. He's the you know,
the equivalent of the thirteenth in visible mom. You know,
he's just constantly being reborn, this eternal evil fanos come
back to destroy the world in the Marvel Cinematic Universe
view of how foreign policy works. And so we've ended
up with a foreign policy establishment which has all of
the wrong motives. They have their cynical financial motives, there's
crazy ideological motives, and then you know, you've got just
the sort of blatant stupidity on top of all of this.
You know, how many pants suited girl bosses are there
in the State Department who believe you know, are kind
of sublimating a problematic relationship with their father on of
Vladimir Putin and using that to make policy. And I
posted a thread about Sir William Browder, who's one of these,
who was showing basically for deep strikes into Russian territory.
Brouder is the the grandson of Earl Browder, who was
the head of Communist part of USA for a time
in the nineteen thirties and who was a known Soviet spy.
His mother is was a Russian who and a Soviet citizen,
and so he, you know, William Browder made I think
he made two thousand percent return during the privatization period
in Russia, so something like four and a half billion
dollars by you know, snatching up these commodities in these
you know, heavy industry within Russia and then bringing down
the global markets. Many such cases, and there's a great
piece called How Harvard Lost Russia which goes into the
wheeling and dealing that occurred. So a lot of these
oligarchs have you know, extensive international ties and they made
a lot of money, and they're mad at Putin for
those reasons. So that goes to your point, there are
financial incentives. William Browder was kicked out of Russia by
Putin after being a putin ally because he, you know,
whatever falling out he had with the other oligarchs, and
you know, he claims it was all because he was
anti corruption. And I don't trust a word any billionaire
oligarch out of Russia is saying about what they did basically.
But what's very clear is that these people have complex motives.
They are a mixture of crafts financial motives, but also
crazed ideological motives. And you know, and then on top
of that you just have plain idiotic inability to think
about the world. And that's a big part of the
problem as well.
Speaker 1: I asked my wife the other day, I said, if
World War two started, who would get the blame for it?
And I said it's going to be putin ye, And
I said why because he invaded a neighboring land where
everyone speaks everyone speaks the same language as him. Yeah,
and he was doing that because his people got abused.
His people were being abused. Oh wait a minute, I've
seen this movie before. Somebody invade Somebody invaded a neighboring
country because there was a city there that was the
same spoke the same language, were of the same heritage
as these people, and they were being abused by the
Home government and then they get blamed for World War two?
So is it any is it any reason why he there,
they wouldn't prop him up as you know, invoking Hitler, Hitler, Hitler,
when if they want to start World War three, he's
going to be the one who's going to get all
the blame.
Speaker 2: Well, and I think this goes back to the Marvel
cinematic universe view of politics. You know, the complex geopolitics
leading up to World War Two, especially in the East,
are not well understood by Americans just simply. I mean,
there's a lot that's going on there, the tension between
the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, it was very real.
I think there's a you know, Sean mcmeckon in his
history Stalin's War does a good job of centering the
conflict in the East and showing just how dependent Nazi
Germany was on the Soviet Union, and so not only
was there an ideological conflict in that case, but then
there's also the geopolitical and resource conflict. And you see
now now the way we think about World War Two
is filtered through brutality on the Eastern Front. It's filtered
through the Holocaust, when at the time no one among
the Allies was talking that way. No one just that
the plight of the Jews was assiduously avoided by Allied leaders.
They didn't want to talk about it, and so we
get these pinematic righteous good versus evil, which then it
makes it impossible to think through the real causes of conflict.
And so you can see that same intellectual framework playing
out today. So you have Ukraine, which is a very
recently created country, it's only about thirty years old, that
has really had any sort of meaningful independence. And by
the way, it's not independent. Ukraine is a basically as
indefensible borders it has. It is in the immediate sphere
of influence and interest of a much larger power, okay,
And at the same time you also have Western governments
with a lot of interests in that country. So you
have these factions fighting all the time within your regime.
You know, you can see a very similar theme played
out in World War two and the lead up to
the war in Poland, which is to say, Poland was
caught between two great powers and needs to pick which
one it's going to side with. In essence, the polls
chose a third option in the British which was really
that didn't work and it got partitioned by the two
other great powers. If you just set aside, set aside
the stuff that was done after the war, if you
just look at it from that perspective, you can see
immediately what the problem is is you are when you're
a power like the Ukraine, you need to find out
you can't really be sovereign in the ordinary sense. How
can you be sovereign? What does that even mean when
at any moment any Western government or the Russians are
going to be deeply involved in your politics and determining
basically who what government you're going to have. And so
this is the problem. Again. We need to take a
step back from the moralizing, marvel cinematic universe view of
foreign policy and just look at the facts. A war
with a nuclear arm power by the United States government
would not be good for the American people period. The
you know, and you have to look Warsaw was leveled
during World War Two because of foreign policy decisions made
by their government. They made mistakes and they paid for it.
They were just basically brutalized by two great powers. And
I think the Ukrainians are making very similar mistakes now.
And it's like, how does this benefit you? What is
your future going to be like after you take a
million casualties in this war, Like the average age of
a Ukrainian soldier right now is like forty five years old,
and how is it? You know? And it's just it's
sickening to see Westerners say moralize, oh, We're going to
fight basically to the last Ukrainian It's just disgusting. There
you're posting snuff porn on Twitter, watching Russians get blown
up by hand grenades. It's like, this is sick stuff
and it doesn't have anything to do with our national interest.
And then then it's all, well, whose fault is this really?
How about we try and avoid having a major war?
How about we try that? And I get probably this
is what I'm saying is extremely controversial, and I'll be
labeled as effectively yeah, I mean it's what I will
be seeing as villainous for advocating for peace, for advocating
for not having major war. That's how messed up our
politics are right now. And I think again, this is
part of the reason why they're trying to assays Trump.
And you see a Ukraine you know, Ukrainian activist if
you want to call him that, try and kill the
president because Trump wants peace. So that's where we are
right now. It's a huge problem.
Speaker 1: I think historically most of the most of the wars
that you look at were for land or for a throne.
They were very limited in scope, they were mostly local,
and you can understand them. It's hard to understand them
from the you know, post Nuremberg, post you know, post
war consensus now where everything is made into morality, where
you know, you can have a war where you know,
where the people who are really paying attention know it's
not about morality, but it's just it's a gigantic morality play.
It could be about power, it could be about it
could be an ethnic quarrel, it could be about money,
could be about oil, it could be about resources. It
could be about just revenge. But everything is painted as
this moral you know. And when I look at war historically,
it wasn't until I mean very recently, last couple hundred
years where you really started people having people judge war
from a moral standpoint. It was just always seemed it
always seemed like it came with the seasons, you're going
to have a war now, and this and that's where
this is. So yeah, until I don't know, until we
can get past this moralizing, this where everybody is held
up any enemy of the regime is held up to
you know, and looked at the Nuremberg defendants or you know,
Adolf Hitler. Then we were just you're going to be
able to make an excuse for any war. But you know,
it's all bull because there are plenty of There are
massacres going on in the middle of Africa right now
that we're not involved. You know that we're we're not
trying to stop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I would say I think part of the
best parts of the Western tradition is the attempt to
moralize war and to make it morally clear. But what
that means, though, is much different than what these people
are thinking. Right. And one of the innovations of the
international law that comes out of the post Thirty Years
War Treaty of Westphalia environment which basically dominates from the
seventeenth century up and through basically World War One, but
it was already coming apart slightly before. The point there
is that at the individual level, of course, morality is
involved in war. But the problem is is that other
powers can't be the judge of that morality. So in
a way you have to exclude the question of justice
in order to bracket and limit the destructive power of war.
Because if you say I'm on the side of the
angels and my enemy is on the side of the devils,
then that can legitimate doing horrendous evil. But in the
name of righteousness, you know, if you're fighting a war
for men's souls, then you need to not only defeat them,
you need to exterminate the enemy, and you can moralize it.
Every enemy soldier is a murder. What's the punishment for murder,
It's death. So that means every war is a war
of annihilation. But if you take that view, you turn
you radicalize conflict. And that's what it happened in Europe.
You had this disintegration of the older medieval order, which
is complex in its own right, but you know, is
the conflict between the power of the secular authority of
the emperor and then papal power once you move in
the state period. The brutality of Thirty Years War caused
a sort of consensus to form among European powers. We
need to make religion not the central cause of conflict,
and we need to bracket the destructive power of war.
And so how you do that is by removing the
moral dimension, in part from the conduct of war itself.
So what makes a war just is that it follows
certain forms. An enemy needs to fight under a flag,
they need to have a sovereign ruler, they need to
follow certain rules of warfare. Certain weapons and tactics are
off the table, and anyone who doesn't play by those
rules they can face a war of annihilation. But if
you play by the rules within the European context, then
you're able to limit conflict and make them in a way.
You're able to make war more moral, You're able to
bracket it, You're able to bracket its destructive power. But
by the time you get to Bolshevism, the Bolsheviks throw
all of that out the window. They declare the entire
prior existing system to be fundamentally illegitimate and brutal and evil,
and so essentially the Communists are at war with the
entire world. So under that framework you can't think in
the older European terms, and we do see a return
of the wars of annihilation. Everybody's a target. You see women,
children's cities, civilians, non combatants, and eventually you lose the
entire concept of the battlefield at all. You can just
see like what Israel just did detonating these pages on
these hesbela. You know, members, well it does. You can
argue whether it's right or wrong. What I'm saying is
that's no longer war in the traditional sense. You're basically
using subterfuge. Line deception is the essence then of war,
and so you can't just you don't just have a
stand up, knockdown fight. Suddenly everybody's a target. Everything at
any time, you could just be annihilated by an ied,
even inside of a small personal electronic device. And this
is a This is a very dangerous war. It's a
dangerous situation, and it's a radicalized situation. I think the
wars of the future will be so much more brutal
and heartless than the wars that have been waged hitherto,
you know, And I think unless we do something radical,
I think the current international order will simply tear itself
part in a very brutal fashion. We're going to see
civil wars as this sort of civil wars insurgency, and
then small states at war with large states and sort
of brutal, grinding conflicts that don't really have clear, definable
ends and can't really be ended in a meaningful way.
That's the future unless we do something extremely radical in
comparison to what we have now. And it's a it's disturbing.
It disturbs me greatly.
Speaker 1: Well, the whole pager story in Lebanon. I still need
to find out more about it. I mean, I know
it happened and everything, but it just seemed seemed odd.
It seemed like it seemed like one of those things
that could be propaganda where Yeah, but then right before
we started recording, it was reported that explosions were heard
and seen all over Beirute because walkie talkies and radios
all of a sudden just exploded. And yeah, yeah, that
just seems it seems really odd to me that that, yeah,
that they would be able to pulse something like that off.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't, yeah, I mean I I initially
is kind of like, is this something that they figure out,
that the Israelis figure out a way to make lithium
ion batteries explode? I mean how I mean, it's it's
a feat of subterfuge and intelligence competence to be able
to hack into a supply chain and plant explosives, not
have them detonate early, have them able to detonate and sync.
Typically C four requires mercury, fulminate or some other substance
to act as a blasting cap. And then you know,
how do you preserve that over a long period of
time without having problems in degradation. Somehow these Raelies figured
out how to do how to do all of that.
But you know, the core political problem, of course remains,
which is, if you are Israel, how do you get
out of the circumstance in which you find yourself now,
which is to say there isn't it seems like the
Gaza problem, the Palestinian problem is just can endure indefinitely.
And on the one hand, Israel is the only nation
in the world which has an explicit exception to the
post nineteen forty five Order, which basically stated that European
settler colonial powers could no longer exist and you know,
a sort of ethno state, if you want to use
that term, was fundamentally illegitimate. So I think Israel itself
is two fundamental tensions that are pulling on it. Within.
One is that a faction of left wing Israelis who
would support they want Israel to be basically what I
call a gay liberal democracy. You know, Tel Aviv is
thirty percent LGBTQ. They have democratic elections, they want open migration.
They do not want to be associated with racial ethno nationalism,
they don't want to be associated with even religious Judaism.
So that faction is it odds then with a faction
that says they want Israel to have be it close
to dedicated to the preservation of the Jewish people, especially
in the aftermath of the Holocaust, and you know violence
within Europe and discrimination within Europe. But those two factions
are intention And one of the most striking things to
me was right before the October seventh attacks occurred, Israel
it self seemed on the verge of civil war. I mean,
it seemed like those two factions after that election, it
could come to blows. And I have some friends who
are Israeli and who or acquaintances really and you know
the way they were talking to other Israelis talk about oh,
I mean very that was probably some of the most
anti Semitic comments I've seen made were made in the
context of these two Israeli factions fighting with each other.
And I think it's basically what Israel is being kept
together by fighting these external enemies. But these external enemies
can't really be permanently defeated in any sort of meaningful way.
They haven't been able to find a solution. So what
do you do, well, what's the long term strategy? How
do the Israelis get out of the in which they
find themselves? And I think it's an extremely difficult political problem,
and it goes beyond the sort of crass Zionism or
crass anti Zionism which dominates our politics, which is a
mixture of theological interpretation and then ethnic narcissism fueling it.
But but the core political problem is is basically unexplored,
nobody's really trying to deal with in a serious and
systematic way. And I don't really know what the solution
is in the sense of, you know, as America, we
keep getting drug into this, and then a question becomes
what do we do going forward? Because I think we're
going to see retaliation for the Pager attack and we're
going to see you know, continuing space of violence in
Gaza and the West Bank unless something meaningful is done,
and I don't I think it's a very difficult problem
for Israeli policymakers and for the world order as a whole.
It is a problem.
Speaker 1: I've been saying that I think that the only way
that they are going to survive is to become a
multicultural Western nation, and if if history proves anything, they
probably will, because I mean, all every Western nation is
to come to it, you know, I think they're going
to They're going to reach the point where they realize
Iran is producing superior missile technology to them and to
the United States as well, that apparently now the Huthis
have this missile technology hypersonic, and I think that there's
going to get to the point where that left that
culturally left you know, we just want to let we
just want to quote unquote live our lives, classical liberal
That's the only way they survive because they're surround their vietomies.
The Iron Dome. It's the Iron Dome. Is is bull
and Iran has already proven that they can hit them
pretty much whenever they want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a huge problem. I think you could
be right. I mean, but I think what that will
mean then is basically the end of Israel as the
Jewish state that I don't see how that goes together.
I mean, they would they could have open borders, you
could let you could integrate Palestine or Gaza, whatever you
want to call it. You can integrate them into the
Israeli regime, give them full citizenship rights. But then you don't.
They're going to have their own interests, and those interests
are not how did those go along with the sort
of fanatical they become. They become America, right, but then
how to have but their circumstances, they're kind of explicitly
not that. And the whole justification is, well, this is
you know, never again. I think when the Israelis did
their first nuclear test, the atomic warhead that they developed
with the help of the French had the words in
Hebrew never again welded onto the outside of the warhead. Well,
so how's that going to go? I mean, you've you've
spent all these years basically saying these people are gonna
factions within Israel saying people are gonna genocide us if
we allow them into the regime. And who knows. I mean,
I know I have zero sympathy for Hamas. I mean
I someone great response, who do I want to win
in the Israeli himos War. I want America to win
whatever the American interest is. That's what I want to
have prevail. Who do I want to win the Ukraine
Russia conflict. I want America to win what Americans to win. Again.
You know, that's a very radical statement now because sort of.
Speaker 1: But when you say Americans, you're talking about you and me, right,
But if America wins the way it is now, that
means that this government that Thomas Massey has proven is
completely occupied by a foreign power, wins either way.
Speaker 2: Well, And I think that's part of the problem is
we have a ton of foreign interference happening in our politics.
I mean, and it's it's it's a lot of powers.
I don't think I don't think it's just one. I
think it's a lot. I mean I think daily. I mean,
it's like the Egyptians bribing the United States senator that
just kind of disappeared out of the news, like, yeah,
that's true. He had a five hundred thousand dollars you know,
in gold whatever. That's just the ordinary politics. I mean, Katar,
Saudi Arabia, I mean, oh my gosh, I get those
guys are all over the place. Total infiltration of American institutions,
and then you've got the Chinese. You've got you know,
a growing Indian influence, which I think isn't so politically powerful,
but probably will become so at some point. You've got Israel,
You've got Ukraine, You've got even European, different factions within
Europe that are also exercising power. Here in America, we've
just basically jettisoned the Farewell Address and Washington's advice. We
are proving him right every single day. So you know,
if we abandon your sovereignty to be bound up in
other people's problems and you're politically connected, that's going to
have effect domestically. So Hillsdale County, which has all sorts
of problems, you know, devastated by the industrialization, devastated by offshoring.
Nobody cares about that. I mean, our Congressman Tim Wahlberg
went to Ukraine for something like two weeks in twenty
twenty two or twenty twenty three, and I was like,
I have not seen that guy do a town hall
in the last two years. I don't even I've never
seen I don't even know what he does. But he's
got time to go to Ukraine. But meanwhile, we got
problems here. And the point is is, right now, the
people of Hillsdale County are losing the Ukraine War, they're
losing the chemical war with China, and who cares about
it other than maybe JD. Vance and Donald Trump. There's
almost nobody who really in power, who's really interested in
ordinary marriage. And it's it's depressing, it's depressing.
Speaker 1: Well, it definitely does well here before we before I
get into that, you had mentioned earlier nineties Russia when
they just moved into rape the land Constantine kissing recently
has uh I'm sure, do you know he is?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds very familiar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got this triggerometry podcast, and he really really
got upset that Darryl Cooper was on Tucker Carlson.
Speaker 2: You know, uh, yes, okay, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: So he did this this video about the woke right,
and when you understand what he's saying, so he's basically saying, okay,
so the woke left looks at all of these myths,
like the founding myth, the you know, the founding American myth,
the you know sixty sixteen oh four, I mean, anything
that we would be proud of the founding of the
Virginia Colony, Massachusetts colony, anything, and they need to destroy that.
And what he's saying is he's saying that the woke
right is seeking to destroy the other myths they're seeking
to destroy, like the myth of World War Two. And
he didn't mention this myth, but it's one. There's a
couple that. There's a couple I'd like to destroy, like Lincoln,
the Lincoln myth, I'd like to destroy, the Civil Rights
Act myth that that was good for that was good
for America. And it basically what it comes down to
is we're in a basically, we're in a war over myths,
and the regime in charge is being propped up by
the myth of the Civil War, or the myth of
World War One, the myth of World War two, the
Civil Rights Act, Brown versus Board of It, all these things,
and if you try to take those down, even people
who would voting for Donald Trump will lose their minds
because they've actually bought into the founding myth of this regime,
which has really nothing to do with the founding myth
of what is America.
Speaker 2: Well, and I'd say what you're saying right now, whether
people can fight about all of this stuff, but the
point is they're going to fight about it, whatever your
view of all of these things are. The last four
years have caused an intense decline in legitimacy within the
American regime, and so you see an all out You're
going to see increasingly the left wants to attack the
American heritage or American history, and the right is going
to start looking at the founding myths of the liberal
establishment is going to start attacking them. And whether they
get it right or wrong. You know, I've got a
view of Lincoln which is often at odds with the
sort of contemporary right wing account quote unquote. But the
point is people are now going to fight about this stuff.
They're going to have arguments over things like the Civil
Rights Act, over World War two, over Vietnam, over World
War One, over the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, COVID, all
of it. It's all on the table. And I had
this tweet where I said, look, World War two revisionism
is inevitable. It is inevitable because you've seen a decline
in legitimacy, and there's going to be some good consequences
of that, which is, I think you're going to see
serious people try and address problems like with a sort
of standard you know what I call the Band of
Brothers Marvel cinematic universe view of the conflict, which is,
it prioritizes the Western Front, which is not the centerpiece
of the war. It's just not you know, people getting
into the facts. They're going to want to talk about
these things in a serious way. But at the same time,
it just means we're going to have a harder, harder
time having loyalty to among unity among the American people.
I mean, half of the country thinks that Donald Trump
is the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler, and the other half
thinks that he's, you know, the greatest president of the
post war period. How do you make that go together?
How do you make this go on? It's a huge
political problem. In a way, America faces the exact same
problem that Israel faces today. The right wing and left
wing factions fundamentally want two totally different things for the country.
And you know, while I think Israel needs to solve
its own problems and it needs to have its own
sovereign existence, there is a lot of similarity between all
of these Western countries, and we are going to have
to find a solution and it's gonna get and I
just increasingly think the solution finding is going to be ugly.
I think Donald Trump right now, it's like we are
the hour is so late. We might already even be
past the point of no return. Trump winning will at
least buy some more time, I think, But you know,
they could do crazy stuff. I mean, could you see
nuclear war in response to to Trump winning? I don't
think it's beyond the pale. And I think you could
totally see these client organizations, these communist militias like Antifa
hit the streets, engaging in systematic violence. And what are
we going to do then? What do we do if
they succeed in assassinating Donald Trump? What do we do
as a patriots, as ordinary Americans? What's the solution then? So, yeah,
we are totally we are totally at the point in
which all of this stuff is going to be open
for disbate and discussion. And it's a pity it didn't
happen sooner because I think it would have helped clarify stuff.
And there are people gonna be mad, They're gonna be
people who are mad at what I'm saying right now,
because I'm saying these debates are going to happen, and
in a way they've needed to happen. We need to
be clear on these things. They're gonna be mad. But
I'm on the I'm on the cutting edge of social evolution.
I'm right on this one, and it's it's there's no
avoiding it through propaganda or browbeating. It's not going to work.
It's not going to work on young people, especially well.
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest problems we have in
this debate is the fact that we don't have our
people in power, and it allows the people who are
in power, who are completely at odds with us, to
do things like take a town of fifty five thousand
people and import twenty thousand Haitians into it, right, which
is which is basically it's an act of war. It's
a It's basically like just introducing a bio weapon into
a population. And it has nothing to do with we
don't have the resources to house and we don't have
you're importing a probably in the Western hemisphere, the most
anti West during culture that there is. And so now
they're showing up everywhere. Zero Hedge put out an article
today talking about how some ex Wall Street Journal journal
uncovered that the hub of an alleged migrant trafficking network
is in Springfield, Ohio. They're naming a naming a gentleman
named George ten they call him King George up there,
who is living in a palatial mansion that he's making
millions off of this. And then you look around and
those of us who've looked into localities and how in
debt they are, and how so many localities are leveraged
to the hill and they're willing to be bribed into
taking people, you know, introducing masses and masses of people
into populations where there is nothing they no one can
speak the language, there's no jobs for them, there's no
place for them to say. It is just basically, it's
an assault. And this is the problem when your enemy
is your enemy is in charge, and you're at basically
and you're in a point right now of a threat
that's existential in nature.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and it's in the hands of liberals. Immigration
is a terror weapon. That's what they view it as.
This is revenge for white supremacy, racism, living a normal life.
I mean it. The Mystery Grove had a great tweet.
He's like, you know, and I'm gonna paraphrase, he's, you know,
communism is when people who are ugly and vicious make
it illegal to be normal and then try and steal
all your stuff and kill you. That's what it is.
It's just pure resentment all the way down. In a
just world, Joe Biden would be Precinct Captain somewhere in
Pennsylvania yucking it up with other Trump voters. Because in
a good universe, Joe Biden is a Trump voter, he'd
be yucking it up with a firehouse at the fish fry.
He'd be, you know, active in local politics. But no,
this guy is now president of the United States and
he knows he doesn't really belong there, and he's mad
about it. He's angry about Kamala Harris is the same way.
Doubt She's said on tape. She's like, the thing I
really want to do is open a restaurant. It's like,
that's what you should have done. You should have run
a restaurant instead just gassed up on these delusional views
like I need to be in charge of stuff. It's like, no,
you don't. You don't need to be in charge. You
shouldn't be in charge of not smart enough for it,
you're not talented for it. It's not good for you
to be in charge. You should live a normal, decent life. Nope,
I gotta go be at the peak of some international
financial trafficking network so I can make all this money
and use my political prestige and power to hook up
my failed son with, you know, more money than he
knows what to do with. That's the Biden mentality. And
so what you're saying right now, you know, of course
there's an active you know, you use the term bio weapon.
I want to use the term chemical weapon, because that's
what happens with our migration policy. We bring in fitnol
across the border, which is then used to kill ordinary
Americans on the street one hundred thousand a year, probably
more at this point. I don't think they report all
the opioid overdoses correctly. So you have chemical warfare being
waged on the American people. And where is anybody in
power to do anything about it? Nobody, No, because they
don't care, and actually they like it when it happens
that's the real It's like libs being just on the
verge of cheering on the assassination attempts. You just they
want to they wanted to say, that's awesome. We wish
they would succeed in killing Trump because we hate that guy.
And so you see them just everything becomes And by
the way, it's bad for the Haitians to be here.
They're being they're being trafficked. It's human trafficking. You can call, oh,
i'm a it's all these churches. Oh, we're do gooders
helping refugees. No, what you're doing is helping corporations. The
Democratic Party movement quote unquote workers slash political clients in
the United States. In the Haitian case, it's more political
client than worker. But it doesn't really matter. The whole
point is this is wrong. It's evil. You're facilitating invasion
of our country, but bringing in people who should not
be here, who do not are not going to make
good American citizens for all kinds of reasons. And I
don't want to rule over the Haitians. I don't want
to do I don't I don't want to mess with them.
I don't want I don't want I want them to
live their life on Haiti, and I want them to
stay there. I wanted to. I wish it. I wish
it were Wakanda. I wish it were perfect. I wish
it were filled with technology and you know, social success.
But I don't want to have to pay for it.
I don't want to rule them without their consent. I
don't want to rule them with their consent. I don't
want to rule them period. And I don't want to
have them here where you then have all of these
there they are ponds and this political struggle that's playing
out between the right and the left, and it's why
why are we doing this? There will be consequences for
generations based off of the policies we're making now and
all that could have been avoided. And I wish it
would have been I really do. I really wish it
didn't come to this that where we have to have
this conversation. I wish the nineties consensus would have sustained itself.
It probably could have gone for lace one hundred, two
hundred years, but nope, nope, Resentment got to win out
and then you get this this absolute mess.
Speaker 1: Well, one of the things that really got to me
the other day was people on our side saying that
we have to not act like victims. And you know,
you look at this McGregor guy who has this metal
these metal factories in Springfield, who does an interview where
he talks about how you know, well, you know people
around here, they know the Haitians show up and they work,
and they show up on time, and they're not hooked
on drugs. And and someone's telling me, they're like, oh, well,
you know, if you complain about this, you're just making
You're becoming I'm not going to become a victim class
and everything. I'm like, do you know the truth behind
the fentanyl epidemic? I mean, do you know the truth
behind the opioid epidemic that was targeted into small towns,
that was targeted into the poorest and whitest areas. This
all came out of emails. They call them pillbillies. They
said that they were going to they were going to
get them hooked. And these people are victims. I'm sorry,
I'm not going to just because my enemy uses that
as as a weapon, it still makes it true when
when it happens to my people.
Speaker 2: Well, and I would say, like, I'm not a victim, right,
Like I'm not I'm not hooked on drugs or something.
I'm a middle class guy. And I think that's but
it's right. These people have been They've been chewed up
and spit out by a system that does not care
about them and actively seeks to destroy them. They just
nobody cares about the plight of the white working class. Nobody.
I mean, I think Donald Trump cares. I think JD.
Vance cares. I think that's because he came out of
that system. It's in a Saint Vance's arc is indicative.
You know, the guy goes to the East Coast, all
these fancy, you know titles, big university, lots of money,
he adopts, you know, basically liberal norms. Well, when he
finally goes back home, it's like he's getting in touch
with his roots again and he remembers, that's right, you
aren't really part of that class. You don't really belong there,
and you never will. They'll never accept you fully. You'll
to them, to those in power, You'll always be a
pillbilly from Ohio. And I think what you see is
someone who's talented like JD coming back home, reshaping his
politics to align with where he knows he needs to be,
and there's something very admirable about that. I really am
impressed by Vance and by his willingness to change his mind.
But you know, I do. I think we need to
stop this. I want life to be good for my neighbors.
There's a big discussion about this among what I call
the religious left on Twitter. You need to be nice
to your neighbors, and that means refugees, The New York
Times says, are the real Americans. And I care about
my actual, real physical neighbors who live here. Now, that's
what I care about. I want their lives to be
better they are. You know, I think there's so much.
There's a lot of differences between me and them, and
I don't think I should. I'm not gonna lie about
what that is. You know, most of my neighbors do
not have PhDs. They're not trying to get one. That's fine.
But what we do have in common is we live
in the same community and we can be at peace
with one another. Like my neighbors and I both share
long standing ties to America, and for better or worse,
we are in it together, and we deserve to be together.
And they need people my neighbors need me to do
my work, which is to protect them from the enemies
that are They can't even understand. I mean, they're just
taken completely by surprise, Like they the people who just
live like, well, I'm living my normal life. Why am
I under attack? And they it's hard for them to
process just how all this happened. And that's why you
need the unity, unity between these different between the different classes,
between just just a standard like we this is our country.
We need to defend it. We need to get along,
and we need to seek a joint aim and that's
something to be aimed for and to be pushed as
a political project. And I'm glad Donald Trump is saying
what he's saying. He's helping make that happen. I think
it's a good thing.
Speaker 1: Do they let him be come pressing it?
Speaker 2: Well, he's gonna win that. I'll put my name on that.
But it's harder to say on that. I think maybe
I'm just a Pollyanna. But I do think he will win.
I think he will take office, but I think there'll
be a lot of chaos behind the scenes and coming
down the pike. I mean the Summer of Love twenty
twenty will be the model going forward. That kind of
thing will come back.
Speaker 1: Do you think he you know, he started using this
term as term that I've been using for a while.
I'm sure he didn't hear it from me, remigration or
reverse migration. I have I know people who are more
deep into like the financial system, like the legacy financial system,
the financial system that most libertarians and most people would hate,
And they say, basically, we are the economy is going
to something really bad is going to happen with the
economy if at least twenty million aren't sent out, aren't
aren't returned, And they said it really has to be
more like forty million. Those numbers seem insane, right, But
does he do does he do it? Does he is
he allowed to do it? If he does it, does
a civil war kickoff? What the what happens?
Speaker 2: Well? That's hard. I mean, like you said, it's so,
it's that's where my crystal ball fails me. Do I
think he's gonna try? Yes? I think he has changed
since twenty twenty and twenty sixteen especially. I think he
gets at least in part I cannot simply just play
ball with these people. They're out for me. The assassination
attempts are not moderating Donald Trump. They're making him more
firm and insistent. And he you know, I noticed he
talks a lot less about legal immigration. It's like, these
people gotta go. And it's true, these illegals have to go.
I est themate. There's anywhere between forty to sixty million
in America. Now, I think the twelve million numbers complete,
that's not real, that's not real at all. They don't know.
I think in the last three and a half years,
my guess is they're probably averaging five to ten million
people per year. I mean, they don't even know. But
and they're facilitating a bunch coming in. They don't keep
accurate records intentionally, there's all kinds of stuff that goes
into this. So remigration, well, yeah, there's a big numbers.
But if you think a lot of these migrants are drifters.
They are here to make money and to get benefits,
and if you make it difficult to do either of
those things, many of them will just leave or they're
just they won't like being here and they're not going
to come so yoused to I mean, how do you
eat an elephant one bite? At a time. And so
I think the biggest thing Trump could do is just
tax remittance payments to other countries. Well, you know, if
you go into San Diego where I used to live,
all of these all they have aways like you can
go to like predominantly Hispanic Mexican neighborhoods. They've got these
little you know, corner store and it have a sign
for Western Union money transfers in Spanish. The idea is
you're going to send money back home using Western Union
so that you can pay your relatives in you know, Guatemala,
or I'll salve it or wherever it is you're coming from.
And said, if you just say that's not going to work,
and we're taxing that at ninety percent there, that's going
to remove a huge incentive for these people to come.
If you say things like you have to use English,
no other translation services will be provided. You need to
speak English for any and all social services, welfare schools.
If your kid doesn't know English coming into the classroom,
they won't be taught and we're not going to educate
them point blank. So this is not gonna work if
you make it hot like just basically like you need
to do stuff if you're here, even the basic stuff.
These people are not gonna like it. They came to
America to find a better life, which means making a
lot of money relatively and being able to mill around
and do the stuff they find appealing. And so if
you just make it difficult to do that, and you'd
be like, you need to act like a citizen, you
need to do stuff, you need to Hey, you have
social duties. That's gonna make people want to leave and
they won't want to come. And it means that people
who stay in that system, they're gonna have to adjust,
they're gonna have to become they're gonna have to make
an effort to be decent neighbors. So I think it's
a win all around. And just it's toughness, it's willpower,
it's just being like, nope, we're not printing ballots in
another language, full stop. Not gonna happen no more. You know,
by the way, if you if there's an illegal immigrant
in your household, we are not giving you welfare benefits. Simply,
all legal migrants wh attempt to collect welfare, you automatic
justification for deportation, and we'll do it. And you just
do stuff like mandatory English. And if you crack down
two on the businesses with the everify stuff, make it
a human trafficking felony. And by the way, those are
all white guys, So who is gonna side with them?
Who's gonna what federal prosecute. Federal prosecutors would just salivate
at the just at the prospect of putting some rich
white guy business owner in jail. And so if you're like, hey,
we're just gonna let the breaks, well it breaks off,
you're all going away big fines and felony charges for
human trafficking. The problem would solve itself very quickly. I
think we would be surprised at how quick these people
would find the ability to go somewhere where they like being.
You know why they're you know, life in their home countries.
They're around people who are like themselves, And isn't that
why nations form in the first place. They'll like they'll
they if they don't have the If migrants don't have
the opportunity to grift, they're not gonna like it, and
they're gonna they A lot of them will simply self
deport and the rest of them can be removed, you know,
under the law.
Speaker 1: I have a friend who used to do labor a
lot in California, and he said that basically Obama just
passed regulations, just wrote up regulations and e owes, and
you know, it made it easier for them to work
if they were illegal. He said, you can do it
to make it impossible for them to work where you
will just you know, whoever the employer is, you can
you can find them out of existence if they start
hiring people. It's not you can make people. You can
make people self deport It's just a matter of having
the will to do it. And that's what That's what
all of this comes down to. Yeah, we can talk
about we can have the greatest plans, we can have
just the greatest plans, and but if you don't have
the will to do this, I mean, boo Kelly is
it is the example. He just said, Look, this country
is the murder capital of the world, and if we
don't fix it, we who knows where where this ends up.
And he'd made a decision and he cleaned it up,
and now business is going there and people, you know,
people are going on vacation there. And so for all
those people who say, well you can't figure.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, El Salvador is a small place. Well, the United
States is a big place with a lot of small places. Yeah,
small places can start cleaning things up and then you
can work your way out.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I look here at the state of Michigan.
We in this is a deep red county. Hillsdale County
is like seventy five eighty percent Trump over. I mean,
there's no there. Democrats don't even run for local office
unless they're kookie. I mean, there's no prospect of them
winning anything. And yet we see a difficulty for just
putting criminals away here in Hillsdale County. And why is that?
And it comes down to a lack of willpower. And
I want Michigan to be a good place to live.
And I think we could just change it like that overnight.
We can solve all of this. I mean, you're not
gonna make it perfect, but you're gonna be able to
reduce everything. And I say, here's things that you can do.
Make it a death penalty offense to smuggle drugs into
the state of Michigan. We catch you with anything above
a minuscule mount of cocaine or methamphetamines or heroin or
whatever automatic death penalty. You're done, no more drug county
right away, it would all go away. I think the
state of Singapore is in half the population in Michigan. Anyway,
I did ran the numbers. At one point, Singapore executes
something like twelve drug dealers a year, and yet income
if you compare to Michigan the equivalent of three thousand
at he's three thousand percent more likely to die of
an overdose in Michigan than in Singapore. The Michigan Singapore's
policy of executing drug dealers saves thousands of lives every
single year safe it was, I mean, just it saves
lives every like one drug dealer is worth something like
twenty to fifty the overdose deaths of Like you know,
if you execute x number of drug dealers, like twelve
drug dealers, each of them is probably worth twenty to
fifty overdose deaths, depending on the political context. Who doesn't
make that trade, Who doesn't make the trade to save
twenty husbands, mothers, sisters, brothers, ordinary people in return in
return for putting one sum of the earth drug dealer
away permanently. And it said that would make my life
better and is it harsh? Is it mean? Am I
a mean person? Well? I don't want to see my
neighbors suffering from drug overdoses. And if that means that
we need to do some hard things so that we
can have a safe place to live, then I'm going
to do it. I'm gonna support it. I will support
anyone who says I will clean this mess up. I
don't want I don't want murders and drive bys happening
in my community. I want that to be punished. I
want ordinary people to be able to live good lives.
And you have to again, it's all willpower. It's all willpower,
and it means being able to face the criticism. I'm
going to face criticism going forward. Absolutely, people are going
to try and say that I belong to the worst.
They will use every slur in the book to say
that someone like me is a bad person. What in
reality is is I'm a husband and father and a
citizen who cares about my community and I want to
make it better and I'm willing to do the hard
things necessary to make that happen. And then you know,
come what may.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people make a lot of excuse is you know,
how can how Can parts of Chicago be the way
they are? Canadem of New Jersey? Other places in Birmingham, Alabama. Here,
all it would take is the leadership of that community
coming together and saying we're going to sell some muni
inctible bonds and we're going to get in such what
Eric Prince right, it's in a weekend. It's cleaned up
in a in a weekend.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I would say every courthouse in America, we've forgotten
what politics is, how existential it is. I think every
courthouse in America, every county courthouse, should have a gallows
outside to remind people of what politics is. Voting is violence.
When you vote, you allow the state to do violence
on your behalf. And do not forget what that means.
And that is a great quote, and it's it's it's
basically true. The libertarian was saying, the state has a
monopoly on violence. So that means when you see violence
happen in your community, it means it's in some way
state approved. And it's like, yes, so drug dealers, gang members, murderers,
you can put a lot of that stuff away. I
think we could easily cut murder rate here in Michigan
in half with like you said, with a snap of
the fingers, and you don't even need mercenaries. You could
just take ordinary people standing up for their rights and
insisting we're going to punish those who want to do
harm in our communities, but make life a lot better
for all of us.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great place to end it. Do
you have anything to plug Well, I'm just.
Speaker 2: Going to say people should follow me on Twitter at
Jay Lippincott, Underscore and then my substack regime Critic. It's
the place to go for the longer essays that I write. Also,
I write an American Greatness, so those are the kind
of three big places people can find me.
Speaker 1: So keep pissing people off on Twitter, man. Yeah, it's
fun to watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hey, I appreciate it, Pete, thanks for having me
on Yeah, take carry you off.
Speaker 1: Thanks,