Speaker 1: What is up Pelsiko's I am Dan Velly coming at
you with a very brief introduction. I went on the
Drop Step NBA podcast with Jack Quantrill. Go check him out,
Subscribe to his stuff on whose links to his Twitter
handle on the podcast itself in the YouTube and podcast description.
Go give them some reviews. They don't many reviews yet
on their shows. I believe I saw on Apple podcast
so Judium a solid does really good work over there,
asks a lot of interesting questions. He had me on
to talk about NBA players who need a change of
scenery head of the deadline. He will get into the
criteria we set out, but it was to avoid us
just talking. Oh, Jimmy Butler needs to go, Zach Lavine
needs to go, so we set a different sort of
criteria for it. Very interesting discussion, had a bunch of
very interesting names and teams come up. So I think
you'll enjoy it. Let me know what you think of it.
And if you have not already and you're just checking
us out for the first time for some reason, hit
that subscribe button on Apple, Spotify and YouTube like comment
help the ago, love us back, join our discord to
come hang out with us. Especially as it gets around
trade in trade season, but especially if we are close
to the trade deadline. A lot of fun stuff and
fun discussions happening with that though. Let's talk to Jack Quantrell,
the Drop Step NBA podcast about well, I guess I
should say allow Jack Quantrell, the Drop Drop Step NBA
podcast to talk to me about NBA players we think
need a change of scene.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome back to the Drop Step Podcast. I
say drop Step podcast. It's a bet of a Hardwood
Knock crossover episode because I'm joined by the one, the
Only Dan for Varli Dan. You put out podcasts and
videos at a rate of knots, but I'm assuming I've
caught you for your first podcast of twenty twenty five.
How you feel, man? You excited to kick off the
new year on the drop Step feet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm super excited, and you did catch me. We
did have a podcast go Live to Open two Thatoy
twenty five, but we recorded it in twenty twenty four.
It was on the Seiver, my first on camera podcast
work of twenty twenty five. So I'm stoked to disseminate,
pick up where I left off and keep disseminating these
awful takes.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, let's get it down in the record books.
It's a big one today. But we are talking about,
you know, some teams or some players might have New
Year's resolutions, but what we're talking about is kind of
in the spirit of that, it's players that might need
a change of scenery. So I was inspired to suggest
this episode to Dan when I watched his Trade Deadline
Big Board episode. I'd recommend you guys all go and
check that out because that was a fun couple of hours.
But I thought there are some players. Yeah, it was
a couple of hours that it was good. It kept
me insertained, I was wrapping presents and everything. It was great.
But I would say that there are some players that
aren't necessarily in the trade room or mill at the
moment that I look at and to me, I think
they really might need that change of scenery. If they
were to get it, maybe you we'd view them in
a new light, or you know, maybe there were players
that you mentioned in that episode, Dan, where I look
at Zach Levine, for example, who I think he was
maybe number one in that video for you, and I think, yeah,
he might be on the trade block, but he doesn't
need a change of scenery. He's doing perfectly well in Chicago,
great numbers at the moment, So we're kind of tackling
like a similar topic. But I'm excited for it. And
how did you interpret this when I said change of scenery?
Did you go for guys that are strictly like in
the rumor bill or did you look and go I
can see a diamond in the rough. It's just he's
buried at the end of a certain team's rotation.
Speaker 1: It was a mix because you have there are certain
guys in the rumor miment I think absolutely belong in
that discussion, but you also kind of I figured there
might be overlaps, so I'd have contingencies too, but they're
also just got It's it's more fun to think about
guys that aren't. Maybe they've been mentioned in trade speculation,
but they're not actively in these rumors, to think could
they shoulder a bigger role or what would they look
like on other teams? So I have my list is
probably will end up being predominantly populated by Okay, there
might be the one or two names of we were
expecting this, but it's predominantly probably populated by maybe team
maybe some people started thinking about this, but it's not
necessarily just out there and being discussed at the moment.
Speaker 2: Good I've I've sort of tried to incorporate a couple
of players that I think could really sort of elevate
in a new scenario. But I do have some trade
rumor mill favorites, and one guy that you spoke about
on your podcast podcast video. It goes out on so
many channels these days, Dan was brandon Ingram, and I
think that of all the players that are on the
rumor mill at the moment, he's the one that has
probably reached the end of his tenure with the New
Orleans Pelicans, obviously having nose struggles renegotiating his extension at
with the Pelicans, and I feel like the team fit
isn't there anymore. You know. He had this sort of
like piece of slop if you're going by you noble
terms drop and it's that the only three players that
are untradeable in the New Orleans Pelicans franchise at the
moment are Herb Jones, Trey Murphy the Third, and Eve
Mec And two of those three players play in the
position that brandon Ingram plays. So you sort of look
read between the lines, and I think that he absolutely
needs to get out of New Orleans. Was he a
name that across your mind or were you trying to
just sort of say, i've spoken about brandon Ingod for
six months, maybe we'll look for someone else.
Speaker 1: No, he's on there. It is interesting though, because I
started to wonder if is it that New Orleans. New
Orleans needs him to change teams more than he needs
to change teams, because I look at it from brandon
Ingram's perspective and it's You're right about the fit. It's
been iffy for a few years, and they kind of
they convoluted it, even while in theory they convoluted it
even more if they were going to be a full strength,
which apparently they were never going to be, because even
brandon Ingram myself is injured at the moment. Yeah, the
fit's gotten bad, progressively worse, I'd probably argue, or at
least it's the same, And we've always kind of known
they need someone who They always viewed brandon Ingram as
just him and Zion operated on such different wavelengths. It
never made sense to me. And if he wasn't going
to be someone who could run a bunch of two
man stuff with Zion or be the off ball, high
volume three point shooter. He always kind of wondered why
wasn't why weren't they shopping him sooner? And it was
because they were hedging against what they're dealing with now,
where I felt like they were building their team in
the image of Zion is our tent pole, but we
need to be able to exist without him. And that's
like the territory that brandon Ingram occupied, which I think
was just flawed because I think it led to a
bunch of just half measure type moves or three quarter
measure moves, and it's put it in a weird situation
where Okay, well, now he's in a contract year. It
might like he's he's a better fit on different teams
if they want to build around him or just make
him a clear cut on ball number two or something
along those lines. But I'm also just looking at New
Orleans and it's are you gonna lose him for nothing
in free agent? Like I'm curious as to because if
they don't trade him, they're gonna pay him something, and
so he's gonna get paid no matter what. So it's
it's mutual where I think both of these teams, like
both of these parties just just need to move on.
It's interesting that you picked Brandon Ingram, though, because I
picked his teammate as one of my guys in Zion Williamson.
I think needs a chance.
Speaker 2: Let's tie this together. Give me the Zion pitch because
we haven't been able to see that. You know, it
hasn't worked on court this year because I think he's
only played sort of like five or six games so far.
It's been tensalizing when he's been on the fold. But
that's like the story of his career so far, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think you could. If I'm New Orleans,
I've seen people just more like should you trade Zion
for expiring contracts or should you just wave him if
you can get out of it because of the non
guarantees on it. I'm not to that degree for them,
like I'm holding on to Zion Williamson unless someone's giving
me something. But just looking at it, could he go
somewhere else? Will they handle like his body any differently?
Or I think it's this is the actual perspective I
view it from. It's just time like this hasn't worked out,
go somewhere else, or maybe they view you as this accessory,
a number two or another number three. Maybe they're not
putting the ball in your hands as much, but they're
gonna have you set more screens. And there are you know,
at least two players who are better than you on
the roster, or at least, let's say, even one player
who's better and more important than you on the roster.
And if I'm there, I don't know if you read
the ESPN piece that came out. I don't know if
it was January first or December thirty first, from Bobby
Marks and Tim McMahon, I believe, but where there was
the one league source that quoted if I ran a team,
I would do something stupid to get Zion Williams in.
And I'm absolutely in that camp because in all likelihood
it won't pan out. But to get a shot at
someone who you know, when he is healthy forever long
he is healthy, that he is one of the top
fifteen players in the NBA, that's a really big deal.
And then to get that player at the NADER probably
of his value to where I think if you set
the over under on the number of first round picks
or equivalent at one point five that the Pelicans get
for Zion Williams in most people are taken the under
on that, and so if it's gonna cost me a
first round pick, I'm just doing it. And so it
just feels like it's time. And also, but this is
long winded, could we just get him on a team
with better spacing. That's something New Orleans has never really
given him. And that's the other thing I want to
see is forever many games he plays, let's see him
next to at least three, but preferably foreshooters at all times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think I want to touch on both
of those points because to me, Zion is one of
the best two level scorers in the league, and you
can almost reduce that down to one and a half.
And my thought has always been, yeah, he's incredible in
that one and a half zone, sort of like twelve
feet and in basically, but he doesn't really threaten from
beyond the line. He can sometimes, you know, start his
struggle starters pick and roll like beyond the three point line.
But I think from a team point of view, I
would love to see him with players that pose that
insane threat from three and like from deep three as well.
So there'll be another player that we talk about in
due course. But you know, day Zion got to Charlotte,
and you pair him with Brandon Miller and you pair
him with LaMelo Ball do players who I think are
currently averaging the most three point attempts as an NBA
duo in NBA history at the moment, but two players
that also kind of struggle with that recreation, struggle to
get to the hoop, and it's alwayst like you fix
both of their problems for them, where like you said,
with this Brandon Ingram in the mix, there's always just
been that like the space thing's a little bit cramped. Yeah,
Yonus Valentinis can kind of space, Larry Nance can kind
of space, but he's never dealt in sort of ideal conditions.
And with that, neither is Brandon Ingram. I think you
look at Brandon and you'd probably say, I quite like
a space set floor and I'd like you to run
twenty five thirty pick and rolls again. And unless you
have Zion as the roller, you're going to have someone
that you can really help off, or you're going to
have someone that, yeah, you might allow Zion to build
a head esteam, but it's going to cramp that paint
and it's going to force your offense one way. And
I think that if Zion were to get moved at
the moment the trade, it would remind me of the
most if things worked out really well. Are is like
the Kyrie Irving to Dallas trade when you speak about
getting somewhere at the nadea of their value, right, Look.
Speaker 1: That's your tap. Sorry, It's interesting because so we know
Zion can ball, and we knew Carie the bar even
if he's going through that stuff, it's just he's never
been healthy enough. And so it's if he does go
somewhere else and end up playing more, it'll be fascinating
to see, Well, did something else happen behind the scenes.
Was it a chance in mindset or approach from him
from the team, or did this team just get super
lucky and had New Orleans held on to him? And
that that's why you don't trade Zion. Williamson too, by
the way, is well, if he just go somewhere is
healthier for the next two to three years and contributes
to being the second or even third best player on
a contender, but I'm just I'm at the point for
both it's exhausting. It's New Orleans really probably just New
Orleans really just needs to hit the reset button. And
so that's another I think vote in favor of kind
of if you can get a first round pick for Zion,
they go ahead, and you're not taking on any really
bad money, just go ahead and do it, like let's
let's rip off this band aid already.
Speaker 2: And they they actually have the capital and they obviously
have the standing in the in the NBA this year
in the Western Conference to do so, because they're going
to be getting a guy that you could potentially sell
to the franchise as or fan base rather as a
franchise guy going for forward. You know, if they are one, two,
three in this twenty twenty five draft, suddenly you can say, hey,
we've got Cooper Flag who needs Ion Williamson, We've got
Dylan Harper, and you've got this long, extended runway. But
that could also be a little bit of a cause
of like, oh, we've got this other young star that
we com pair with Zion. We can move on from Brandon.
He's on rookie, he's on the rookie contract scale, so
our salary doesn't have to get like two insane, which
is something that the Pelicans always try to avoid. He's
he's the player for me. Where I think if you
trade him or you don't, it kind of just gets
you fired because if you trade him, it's an admission
that you did the wrong thing and you've mismanaged this
entire situation. Like you said, he probably could have got
a lot more for him around the twenty twenty three draft.
Where we've sort of been spoken about is like you
could trade Zion for the number two or the number
three pick. And if you trade him and he goes
to a team sort of ala Kyrie Irving and he
contributes to a conference finals run, a finals run, a championship,
you know you're getting fired then, because it's just going
to be we gave up back for what. So I
don't know. Is there anywhere around the league where you'd
like to see him?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's an interesting question. The Warriors have been mentioned.
They would be fun. You mentioned Charlotte. I think that
could be pretty fun. Ideally he would end up on
like in Okay see with some five out lineups. But
that's just not that's not feasible when you like and
they don't need him. Honestly, Golden State's the one that
intrigues me the most is kind of him around Steph Curry.
And then you have Draymond there is not really a spacer,
but you do have some requisite shooting. I wouldn't hate him, well, no,
I probably would hate him there. I was gonna say Houston,
but I don't really love it. You know, when team
would be really fun. But to get to the money
as a struggle right now the Clippers would be.
Speaker 2: Insane that I would be so worried about that. It's
just sort of curse franchise after curse franchise, Like, hey,
we're moving on from Kawhi Leonards. We're gonna get in
a star that you can rely on Zion Williamson. It's
it'd definitely be an interesting one. I think that they
can make the money well, I think that the Dallas
Mavericks could make the money work. It's just one of
those where it's like, are you going to be that
team that sacrifices the depth, goes out and forms a
big three? And if you already have this floor of
like Luka and Kyrie, do you want to sacrifice that
floor for like the ceiling of You've seen what this
team can do in the NBA Finals, maybe they can't
get over the hump against the elite of the elite
in the NBA. That's something that could just about work
because Zion unlike a Jimmy Butler, who's another player that's
been linked to Dallas. He's on thirty seven million dollars
this year, and you can make it work without it
completely reckon the depth on that monster. So that's the
other team. But I like the Golden State shout as well.
Was sort of like Andrew Wiggins brought a ton of
value to them as a rebounder during their finals run
as well. So someone to bring a little bit more
physicality to like an old school duo of Stephan Draymond
could be interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if only Zion rebounded better, that would actually probably
make a lot more sense too. He's like a tough fit,
which is also why it gets really interesting. You can't
just like throw a team out there. I thought about
the Spurs for a minute too, just because if Weinby
is considered a floor spacer, then like you can play
another big man type who's not so much of a
floor spacer, and if it's really only it costs you
a pick, and for the Spurs, it's like, all right, well,
Harrison Barnes, Zach Collins, Kelden Johnson will send you two
of those guys. Yeah, picked maybe one of the flyers on,
like one of the lower level youngsters. That would be
an interesting spot. I don't love this functionally, but like Toronto,
just trying shit, like hashtag, let's just try it and
see what happens. And I think you can even make
a case just with where they're at in their development,
Washington could be somewhat fascinating, but I don't trust that's
another cursed franchise. Like you said, you might want to
keep them keep him away from there.
Speaker 2: We spoke pre pod and I said that I did
a Utah Jazz podcast that I really enjoyed, and that's
the kind of boost that I'd maybe like to see
because their team was sort of like funky spacing, and
they could just say this year, oh you know, Zion's
out for the season, go and get that draft pick,
and then you maybe really launched at the twenty five
to twenty six season, having traded for a star at
the dear of his value.
Speaker 1: Honestly, you know what team to be really fascinating, Brooklyn,
because Jordi Fernandez is an offensive wizard. I mean like
they've had the trade dudes to get worse on offense,
Like that's how Kem Thomas got injured, and with just
Dennis Shruder basically running the show, they were still like
top ten and a half court efficiency. So you throw
Zion there, he's not ruining your tank this season because
by that, like he's probably not gonna play enough, and
then you want a tank again next year. You're not
gonna be good enough with Zion and whoever you draft
to to not get a really high draft pick. And
then it's okay, now we got two really high draft
picks around Zion. Maybe we've taken we've slow played it
this half season and then next full season, and then
we've now built something there and so they see him
under that type of offensive creativity. I would love that
that Actually that wasn't a team that immediately spreaded by.
That might be my favorite potential as it would be Brooklyn.
I just don't know what are they giving up at
the stage of their development in are they gonna throw
a Knicks pick or a Phoenix pick towards I probably
I'm not throwing a I'm not throwing a phoenix Actually
did they even own any more phoenix pick? I wouldn't
consider throwing. Yeah, I'd probably consider throwing it, or a
Taoist pick that's like so far in the distance. I
would consider it though, just to take a flyer on Zion.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie, yeah, exactly. Like imagine if Ben
Simmons could score that, that would be the scenario because
they've made them work on the court this year and
he's an expiring contract, so New Orleans again can get
off that money. You just attach pit capital there. Maybe
they're interested in Cam Thomas, who knows, you know, it's
it's a scenario that can maybe well. I think what
we figured out in the first like fifteen minutes of
this podcast is Zion Williamson still very much has a
potential market. And you know, we're speaking about him as
that like one and a half picks over under. I'm
starting to lean more over because we're talking about a
lot of interesting scenarios for him. So let's see, danve,
You've got one more team.
Speaker 3: For us.
Speaker 1: For a Zion fit or I heard do you.
Speaker 2: Want to go play it? Should we move on from Zion?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was saying when you said the over one
point five draft picks, I'm I am the GM that
would give it up too. They're not gonna be like
great draft picks, but I would absolutely do and I'm
not gonna lie. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it a heartbeat. It's a heartbeat. I butcher on
Zion Williamson and two guys in the twenties, you know,
And obviously we'd be the gms that do that trade
and then suddenly stuffer the Brooklyn Nets like fall from
Grace and then you're giving up a Jayalen Brown. But
what about it in the chairs at the.
Speaker 1: Moment, because you could play him with Jalen Johnson. That's
a small front court though. Yeah, him him getting you're
definitely placing him off the ball with Trey Young, but
that's someone that he's gonna have to screen for. And
then like you could run dual big picking rolls with
him and Jalen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the defense would.
Speaker 1: Probably be toast though. I would just be I'd be
You'd be kind of hard pressed. There are a handful
of teams that I would like you throw him on
Denver would be really fun, but I don't I don't
really know what that does for them. He's just so fun.
So if he's gonna play, you could talk me into
basically any team, just if it's gonna cost one or
two whatever first round. But you probably talked me into
any team acquiring him. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, And they'll be franchises around the
league to just say I don't want anything to do
with that guy. But hopefully it works out and it
makes at least someone looks stupid, whether that be us
or you know, the GM that lets him go. Poor
old David Griffin if it ever gets to that. But Dan,
can you hit us with another player that you want
to talk about?
Speaker 1: So I think I'm gonna just tackle this from a
group perspective because I can't settle on one. We got
to start trading some Kings guys. And I'm gonna say
I was initially thinking Keegan Murray because they've marginalized him
so much on the offensive end. But I think realistically speaking,
is you need to figure out a way to open
up more opportunities on offense for Keegan Murray, and that's
going to come by way of trade League Monk. Already
you've seen his you have de Marty or trade Demart Rosen,
then that was there. It's not that those two need
to be mutually exclusive. But even we've seen a huge
dip in Keegan Murray's true usage, which just you know,
calculates everything he does on the offensive end, playmaking, shot attempts,
the whole nine. We've also seen a huge drop from
Malik Monk because you've added someone who is so ball
dominant into Martin Rosen, and you have Daron Fox at
the peak of his powers, and you have Domasa Bonis.
So I would argue that you need to trade to
Martin Rozen or Malik Monk to like really optimize this
team and unlock some of the players that are already
in there. I know Fox is the one who's in
the rumor mail. I don't think he's playing pretty well
this season, like he's gonna contend for an All NBA
spot as of right now. He doesn't need a change
of scenery, and they would pay him. I think you've,
like the Kings who created this team where they've effectively
kind of marginalized everybody except the Aaron Fox, which is
he's the last person that should be marginalized. But you
just have you overcompensated, I think with the DeRozan acquisition,
so I would say Malik Monk Order Rosen and the
bigger one. For me, I held out hope for a
little bit. We're two games, I believe in the Doug
Christie ten years we're recording this, and he's played a
total of thirty three minutes in those two games. Get
Kean Ellis out of there. If they're not going to
play him and use him properly, just put him somewhere else.
I don't know what the concern is at this point.
Is he technically too small for you? Does he not
give you the three point volume? Fine? Whatever, I think
that's dumb. But he needs to be on a new
team if this is the if he's going to be
even forget, I think he played twenty minutes in their
last game. Even forget, I'd like to see that ratcheted
up by at least five to seven minutes. The inconsistency
of it, of just like his playing time kind of
swinging from game to game. It's inexcusable. And now I
think you can say that it's spanning two coaching ten years,
so it might be a little bit early into the
Doug Christie experience to say that, But I thought part
of the reason they wanted to get rid of Mike
Brown was they thought their roster wasn't being managed properly.
But I guess it all just comes down to the
crunch time record. So free kean Ellis And honestly, it
wouldn't surprise me just based off the contract he's on,
in the team control you have if they got a
first round pick for him. So I don't think they
should trade him. I think they should play him, but
they're not playing him enough, so he needs a change
of scenery.
Speaker 2: Couple of things. Elite Monk was the number two player
on my list, so great lines, great minds think alike
Dan absolutely same thinking there where It's just you've got
DeMar in and I figured, like I'd be surprised if
they moved DeMar given what they gave up in the summer,
given it's only been a couple of months, and it's
like if another team was truly interested, they would have
been the team to pay the balls or like try
and swing that sign and trade for him in the summer.
So I think that you're committed to demand one way
or another. And with him on the team, you just
have such a clear like we should stagger the usage
between Fox in the starting minutes, DeMar carries your second
units and like overlaps with Fox a little bit, and
that completely gets rid of the function of the sixth
Man of the Year last year, where it was like
Milite Monk was setting bench units on fire. He was
absolutely fun, fantastic when he got to play against these
second units, he got to show that he could be
far more of a playmaker than we ever thought. I
think he's got a fantastic roy of pick and roll
parsing when he actually gets the chance. He's a great,
great shooter. He's a guy that can play next to stars.
He's a guy that can play in starting units. But
at the moment, it's just like it's such a two
k lineup that Sacramento are running right now, where it's like, oh,
we've got D'aron Fox, Malik Munk, and DeMar de Rosen
and then like, oh yeah, this guy that can space
from the corner in Keegan Murray. It's it's a little
bit fanciful and I'm absolutely with you. I wouldn't have
said key on Ellis just because he needs to play
for that team if it's going to work. And Kevin
Hurt was someone that I wanted to see traded before
the season even started because they already look crowded at
the shooting guard and I don't know what deal he
has there, but he keeps sort of getting starting minutes
or like big rotation minutes. So something needs to change
in Sacramento, ideally before they move on from Daron Fox.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean at this point that I think the
Aaron Vox situation is fade to complete that there, I'd
be a little bit surprised if he gets traded by
the deadline unless he asked her out. But it's over.
You've you've kind of tipped your hand as a franchise
again that you don't really know what you're doing. And
this isn't to say that Mike Brown was the answer,
but your lack of alternatives and just the way you
handle this entire process from his extension to the roster
construction of all knowing. Even if you liked the de
Mard Rosen acquisition, where both my co hosts and I
we were skeptical, but it was oh, for what you
gave up, you might as well try it, but then
to still come into the season with some of the
other same weaknesses and question marks around them. And just
to reinforce both of our points here, So looking at
the true usage like biggest declines this year, of the
three hundred and ninety eight players as we're recording this
who have logged at least five hundred minutes, the Kings
have four players in the top fifty of true usage declines,
and they have two in the top twenty, being Demart
Rosen and Elik Monk, and the other two are Keegan
Murray and then Kevin hurt in there and they've kind
of it probably benefits Kevin Hurder. I'm not gonna lie
to have a slightly smaller role just because the type
of shots that they acquired him for he all of
a sudden started hitting. But like you don't want to,
you know, sometimes smaller roles are like the way that
what Dallas has done with the healthy Luca this year,
moving him off the ball a little bit more. Someone
who's that high usage. But when we're talking kind of
these aren't top tier guys. I mean Tamar Okay, fine,
his usage is coming down. He was high usage, but
Malik Monk and Keing and Murray specifically, like those weren't
really players that should have had room to be marginalized.
So and King and Murray specifically is just I understand
he wasn't a big creator, but the whole point is
to continue developing him, and you've now put yourself in
a situation where you've to me, pigeonholed him on the
offensive end. So I don't I don't think he needs
to change your scenery because he's developed into a hell
of defender there, but there needs to be players around
him who need to change your scenery so that he
can get proper scenery. I don't really know that's more phrasing,
but that's where I'm at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like, not only if you pigeonholed him
on the offensive end, it's really on the defensive end,
where last year you were asking him to take every
single primary matchup. You know, Gogard, Luca, go guard, Jason Tatum,
go guard, you know, whoever you want to pick. Whichever
star it was that the Sacramento Kings were playing, it
was probably going to be Keegan's job. And now that
Harrison Barnes is out of there. They're also like, could
you kind of be our secondary rebounder as well. I
know that you're taking on all of these style matchups,
but we also need you to help out Domas on
the glass because Damara isn't going to attack with the
same ferocity that Harrison Barnes might have, you know, once
upon a time. So he's got through so much defensive
usage that even if he had the energy, like even
if he had the space within your offense to do it,
I really wonder if he'd have the energy to like
get into his heavy you know, heasy game, isolated at
the top of the key, whatever it is that you
want to see, Keegan, because the poor guy is just
being run into the ground on the defensive end.
Speaker 1: And that's a great point because this was the case
last year, into the case again this year. He's second
on the team in rim contest for seventy five possessions,
like only the don't. It's because the bonus is a
center Otherwise if the kid. Honestly, if the Kings had
their druthers, they would probably have Keegan Murray lead them
in that category just based off their personnel. So you're right,
he's he's overstretched on that end, which makes it more
blasphemous by the way, he's clearly not gonna pitch it
on the glass or is the you know, help side
like basket protector. But ke On Ellen's a great defender,
can take on many of the perimeter assignments like Keigan
Murray is forced to cover, and to me, that makes
his I think of all the players we mentioned the like,
what's most inexplicable is this team's view of Keon ellis
to me, I think is because at least you come
up with excuses for well, if they don't make the
Damar move. There's no trickle down effect for Malik Monk.
There's not as dramatic of a you know, true usage
decline for Keegan Murray. Uh, But like because they're just
not Like Kean Ellen shouldn't be impacted by I guess,
like you said, there's the glood of guards, he really
shouldn't be impacted by any of that. Like he's plugging
play on the offensive and you don't need to guarantee
him touches or shots, And so I still find his situation.
If I had to pick one player from that team
that needs a change of scenery, and especially because we're
tackling this from the player perspective, I think it's ke
On Its.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And obviously Keon hasn't played a tom for the Kings.
I think he saw a lot more usage towards the end,
or like a lot more minutes on the court towards
the end of that second season for him in Sacramento
last year. But his true shooting percentage year on year
has gone sixty three percent sixty three percent. And then
this year, you know, we're talking about why isn't he playing.
Maybe it's a shooting slump, Maybe he like you know,
can't shoot the ball from the corners anymore. No, it's
sixty six percent true shooting for Keon Ellis this year.
So not only could he be your defensive guy, but
he is the perfect player where you could just say
to d'aron Fox, go and run your forty picking rolls,
Demard Rosen, go and isolate to your heart's content, because
we have a guy on the court that does not
need any sort of like creation rep or anything along
those lines. You can just rely on him to do
his job. So yet it's it's a little bit baffling
as it stands. I think you're right that they could
probably pull a first round pick. The only scene that
seems to like have a glut of these Keon Ellis
style players is the Memphis Grizzlies, where they've got like Scotti,
Pippen Jr. Jay Huff, you know, Jalen Wells. I know
that's just a second round pick. Gg Jackson as well
signed to these incredible second round pick Deuce McBride's style deals.
But yeah, Keon would just be useful anyway. He's like
one of the few players that even the Phoenix Suns
could trade for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and honestly, he's like a little bit on the
tinier end, but they could use him. I even thought,
like would because I believe they could trade this year's pick.
I'd have to double check that, Like, would Boston just
give you two first for him, because doesn't Keon have
another year of cost control? Or am I misremembering on that?
But like if he has another year of team control
and you're a really good team, like maybe you're two
first round picks is probably a stretch, but like you
give up one without even thinking about it, just because
you're already expensive and so you want someone who's played.
But yeah, he has another year left on his deal
after this one at two point three million. So these
these teams that are in the second apron and maybe
you have multiple picks, Yes, you protect the hell out
of the second one, but it wouldn't shock me. It
would not shock me. That's it's probably too ambitious. And
by the way, the King would be complicit if you
don't think his trade value is where it should be,
because had he maybe played more, it'd be easier for
teams to justify giving up a first round pick or more.
I think, to be clear, I think two first round
picks is overkill. But like, ye, if I'm just a
team that's good and somehow has like it, like the
Magic is an example, just their own first round pick
is not gonna be good. They kind of had that
Denver first round pick. Yeah, I give up my two
two twenty twenty five seconds for Keon Ellis. I don't
know if he's exactly what ke On el is exactly
what they need, but like that's the type of situation
that could probably talk themselves into going a little over
the top.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if the Knicks had any sort of draft capital left,
they be the team that I don't like. No, I'm sorry,
I don't like that fake Washington pick. I don't feel
like even if they traded for Zion and he's an
MVP straight away, I don't feel like that's gonna, you know,
translate anytime soon. So I think that that's gonna stay there.
And I think that.
Speaker 1: Another perfect example though, because you would give up that
pick I don't know what seconds they have left, and
that they would give up their most recent first round
pick and become nattier in addition to that one like
you would give up that, That's not one you would
think about. But I mean, I don't know why the
Kings would be interested, un as they're really high on
like that Wizard's pick. Conveying like that would be that
would be like that type of team would be able
to talk themselves into giving Okay, they're not high end
of first round picks, but we've technically given you to
quote unquote two first round picks.
Speaker 2: And I think the reason why I'd led with I
wanted to lead with Milie Monk, who you actually led
with as well, Dan, is you could peasically move Milik
Monk and you could bring in a player in a
position of need with his salary slot with the other
salary on the roster as well, so it's like, we
don't have to give up on this straight away. We
can try and actually get a power forward. Have you
ever heard of a power forward the Sacramento Kings in
the building where it's like Keegan Murray doesn't have to
be superman on the defensive end night after night. And
we haven't even mentioned Devin Carter's name yet. Made his
G League debut a couple of days ago, drop twenty
nine points phenomenal. So he's another guard that is going
to have to find pt for Doug Christie Sacramento Kings
or you know whoever they get in to replace Dug eventually.
So nothing needs to change the scenery if anything, is
crowded in the back court in Sacramento. So let's get
away from there and let's talk about another guard that
probably needs to move. To my mind, he's a player that,
like I think, if you asked fans, analysts, GMS, they
would all have wildly differing values on this player. And
that's Anthony Simon's For me, it feels like his time
has sort of come in Portland a little bit. I
think if he was going to be this team's true
number one or number two, he would have grasped that
even in the midst of a rebuild sort of last
year got through plenty of usage, and it's now a
stage where that usage is declining. It seems that Shaden
Sharp is sort of usurping him on the offensive end,
and the shooting percentages have started to drop. You know,
Anthony Simons, who has had insane shooting development from the
time that he was a rookie. He's currently shooting thirty
three percent from three this year, and that's not good
for a guy that sort of almost exclusively operates behind
the arc. So he's someone that I think kind of
has to get moved on a team where kind of
like the Sacramento Kings, they need to do some spring cleaning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's another good pick there. That's because that's
a team that's just like, Okay, you're questioning the direction here,
and yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that one. That
and that's one. It's weird that it feels like it
hasn't been He's been talked about approximately forever, but he's
never really been like linked to tangible trade rumors. And
I think the Blazers are so look like they have
so little shooting right now that even just the idea
of him being a threat. As you said, his percentages
are down, but like he's there only off the dribble
three point threat right now, and he's got in theory
like he's just going to be one of your better
floor spacers because the defenses actually respect him. But it
would be nice to see him settle in to a
team where he can either maybe it's coming off the
bench or just being their third option where he's passed
with maybe less playmaking and it's just hey, you need
to score, not fully like in the Lou Williams Jordan
Clarks in Realm. I actually think that he's more dangerous
as an off the dribble perimeter shooter, but he feels
like someone who he can open up the floor for
a team that doesn't have a ton of spacing. But
he also just fits right into any like if you
already have pretty good spacing, like he'll just elevate that.
So he's like this nice blend of plug and play,
but also he can create for himself and a little
bit for others.
Speaker 2: The one team that really doesn't need to trade for
Anthony Simons the Sacramento Kings, So fingers crossed that doesn't happen,
but you know, the way that we've been talking about
the Kings in recent baits, you know, I'm not going
to rule that out. He was like a trade machine
favorite over the summer because he's in this scenario where
like they either need to extend his contract, and that
extension had like a it had a confusing number on
it because I think, like I said, dependent on you ask,
you either view him as like this Jordan Clarkson type
where it's like, oh, he's going to be a six man,
he's going to be a bucket getter, and then some people,
like in the analytics community, because he's been such a
good three point shooter over the years, probably have a
much higher value on him than that. And it felt
like he kind of had to get moved because Portland
wasn't ready to really do anything at least this year.
But I think he was kind of linked to Orlando
last year. I don't know if that was just you know,
fans looking and going, hey, this is a team that
needs three point shooting. Anthony Simon's come on down. But
he's one of these players that looks really tradeable because
of the spacing threat, because of the off the dribbles,
three point shooting. But then when you have teams that
are increasingly committed to an identity on the defensive end,
not trying to hide anyone, and if you're hiding anyone,
it's going to be your number one offensive player. I
think he's becoming a little bit harder to place than
you know that the average fans bow user might think.
And he's a player that my estimations, he's really sort
of like he rose early on in his career. And
now I really don't know what to do with Anthony
Simons because I don't really want him running a ton
of pick and roll much rather him as that more
off ball threat, maybe like your sixth man scorer, almost
a Norm Pale type player. But yeah, he's a he's
a confusing one. And to me, I fully respect your
point about like the spacing and they just need three
point threat. I would quite like to see him move on,
And I'd still like to see Scoop get a chance,
even if that seems to be you know, a bust
of a pick at the moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also he's only one year left on his
deal because as you mentioned about the extension, and so
his trade value already peaked and they kind of missed
the boat on that. And then for him, you probably
want him if you're If you're him, excuse me, you
want to be in a situation where maybe you can
contribute to a higher level of basketball to prove your
worth in this next contract, because you're one of those
middle class now free agents for people on deals where
if you don't extend with your own team and you
head into the open market, it feels like anything could
happen because I'm not comparing him necessarily to dis players.
Look what happened Malipe Easily over the past two years
or Gary Trent Junior specifically this season. I think Hanfrety
Simons he's more He's more dynamic than both of those guys.
But like, what is he going to get if he
goes into the open market and you're coming off from
a team where your percentage is slumped. Maybe let's see
what he did yet next year and the team wasn't good,
So how are other teams going to value you? I
still love Orlando as a destination for him, by the way,
I think people want them to like go after someone
who's like bigger and better, but he would be like
there's like any team. He's also young enough to wear
if you're rebuilding and you just want your the guy
in house because you gave up a first round pick
or something to get him, and you think that he's
just going to streamline the development of others because he
is a good floors baser. You could you could talk
me and like I thought about the Lakers for him
before the Dennis Ruder trade with Golden State, Like he
would have been an excellent fit there. You could even
like he's I don't know if he's better. He's probably
better than jail and Green if he used to want
to go that route, but you have Jalen Green already,
so that's not necessarily a good one. He'd be really
fun the Quippers again, But can you get to that
money without including Norman Powell because he makes so much
He's hitched a bunch of different spots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a fun piston in my book, Like if
you want to form like a bat called Trio Cage
Jade and Ivy Anthony Simons and he sort of decide
on a night to night basis who's going to be
starting if the Toronto raptis And I don't think they
do this because they've invested so much in the manual quickly,
like if they wanted to trade that Bruce Brown contracts,
their two contracts that line up pretty logistically in like
a trade scenario that could work out. And I kind
of always just want to see players get to the
Utah Jazz because I want to see what Will Hardy
does with him. Kind of of like another player that
missed the boat a little bit was Colin Sexton originally,
and he's had to go to Utah, rebuild his value,
find himself in a slightly different role. And I think that,
you know, maybe if Utah moves on from a Colin Sexton,
Anthony Simons can just be the next Colin Sexton in
Utah where he gets to have a lot of fun
in a really well spaced system and like set himself
up for that contender trade because at the moment, like
you said, I really like the Lakers' name as well.
Do they think he's done enough in his career to
where they know he can contribute in a playoff setting.
It's a mist like you might need to put another
little bit on your resume before teams go out there
and make that sacrifice.
Speaker 1: The two other teams would make sense, So Agawama City,
I do think either needs. I mean, he can kind
of fill both. Is a caps lock shooter, like who's
gonna get them up in volume that they feel like
they can play more than Isaiah Joe and every Simon's
I don't. He's actually smaller, but he can create some
because I do think they kind of need a third
secondary ball handler. And so if you don't think that
is Aaron Wiggins, and we know that you're not going
to get the same level of volume from a case
and Wallace or now it's Caruso and Caseon Wallace has
done a lot better this year, he'd be interesting there
to where I don't think he would ever close games.
And maybe they want to acquire someone who's bigger. Maybe
they would prefer Cam Johnson just because he's not as dynamic,
but he's bigger, so he's more likely to close games.
But if you don't think that Aaron Wiggins or Caruso
or Cason Wallace is kind of that solution to giving
you another someone who could just create from a dead
stop I'll say, in addition to like getting up threes
in volume, they would be a very interesting landing spot
for him and the other team. San Antonio would be
a dream for him, I think, because they need other
guys to space the floor and you just have a
defense of infrastructure where between Wemby and Steph Castle right
now and if you know, maybe Jeremy Sohan is going
out in that deal, maybe not like if you have
all those guys in place, like you have the defense
to cover up even with Devin Vessel, who's probably a
little bit he used to be overrated defensively now I
feel like he's a little bit underrated. That would be
a great setup for them because it's sort of like, well,
you're not infringing upon the development of Wemby or Steph Castle,
but you're also not going to ask them to handle
the ball too much because you have everye Simon's there's
another outlet there in addition to the cell. So that
would be Honestly, I think this birds would be my
favorite destination for him, now that I'm talking myself through it.
Speaker 2: Yes, CP three as well, who can actually get Anthony
kind of similar to how you're speaking about Steph Castwitz like, no,
I can get you the ball when you're operating off
ball as well, you don't have to bring it up
every single time. And whenever we have these players that
you sort of look at and you go, oh, they
haven't turned into Trey Young. They're not putting up twenty
and ten each night, they're not averaging insane assist numbers.
I always think, can we see you with a big spaces?
Can we see if that eases your playmaking burden. Maybe
it makes it a little bit easier for you to
get to the room. And obviously Vic might turn into
the ultimate example of that through his career, So he'd
be a really really fun fit. Dan, if you've got
another player that you want to talk about.
Speaker 1: I do, and he's he has to be fair. He
only just recently returned from injury. But he would have
been in this discussion anyway, and has been in this
discussion for years, and I'm shocked he's signed an extension
with his team. We got to get Moses Moody off
the Golden State Warriors at this point. This is I
actually think there's another situation where they need him. They
just don't trust him to play heavy minutes, and every
time I watch him, I will say I never come
away thinking this guy shouldn't be on the floor. Yes,
he's had bad nights, he can be all over the
place on both ends of the floor, but this is
they this is someone who is a quintessential three and
D and a little more wing. And the Warriors are
just like, we're gonna give you like fifteen minutes a night,
and I just don't like it. And that's you know,
that might be generous when you're like this season, okay, sure,
but in past seasons as a rookie, eleven point seven minutes,
as a sophomore thirteen last year, seventeen point five this
year fifteen point nine is just kind of inexcusable. And he,
in theory, shouldn't be eligible for this because of the
poison pill, and it's just so tough to move him,
even when you factor in the extension. So he'll count
his five point eight million dollars of outgoing money for
Golden State, he counts his ten point nine million of
incoming money for what would be his new team. That's
a gap that you can absolutely work around. Just get
him somewhere that is going to play him. I don't
even I honestly think if you put him with the
exception of Boston, and honestly I think that's it. If
you put him on any other team other than Boston,
he's playing a lot more than he's playing in Golden
State right now. And even fuck it, excuse me, I
don't even know if you're allowed to curse on your podcast.
Speaker 2: I apologizez fre go for it.
Speaker 1: Boston like could use a reserve way, like Sam Houser
has been battling the back stuff, Like he might play
more in Boston than he is in Golden State right now.
And you explain, explain that to anybody, it's like it's
not going to come off as logical. So free free
Moses Moody along with Kean Ellis, let's go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that poison pill was sort of like, this is
why the Detroit Pistons have positioned themselves to be the
team that takes back that money. It's not a Jalen
Green sized like difference between the outgoing money and the extension.
So it's something that you can definitely get round. Yeah,
we've been sort of like coached. When you're looking at
the draft, when you're looking at free agency, it's these
three and D wings that can guard at their position
that don't take up a ton of on ball usage.
They're the players that get paid. They're the players that
are really scarce around the league, and Golden State has
had one for the last couple of years. You know,
I'm not going to say that Moses Moody was ready
to play in a championship level rotation in his rookie year,
but he certainly had enough experience in the league and
whenever he gets a chance to sort of show what
he can do on the court, it's not really been disappointing.
He's the kind of player that, like you said, he
would find playing time on pretty much any team around
the league, and I was kind of surprised that he wasn't.
Could he have been an offer sheet guy? No, I'm
kind of surprised that he didn't take this all the
way to restricted free agency next year, try and get
an off sheet, try and get out of there. Like, yeah,
maybe you take the money because it is life changing,
but at the same time, it's it's just a little
bit of a head scratcher in my book.
Speaker 1: I wonder if the restricted free agency market plays a
role whereas So if you're Jonathan Kamana and they reportedly
offered them thirty million, even if you miss and have
a bad year, which he's been all over the place,
he's having a good stretch right now, there's probably still
someone who will pay you more than mid level money.
But in the case of Moses Moody, you're not playing.
And the past two summers, I believe we've seen exactly
one restricted free agency offer sheet go out, and that
was to Paul Reid, like when Utah did that creative
voodoo when the Sixers eventually matched it. So if you're
Moses Moody and you're not guaranteed a role, it was
probably smart to take the money. I'm not gonna lie,
but I don't think you should have been in a
situation where we were wondering like, oh, is he worth anything?
And look, I think Dubbs fans, I've seen one of
their past two games, and he's logged over twenty minutes,
and he's logged over twenty minutes in both of them.
I just didn't see the other one, like I'm not
account and is turning a corner until like we've streamed together,
like that needs to be like what at least twenty
games before we say, oh, they're gonna they're gonna use
him more. I just don't. I don't buy it. And
I think, just honestly, as I said it before, you'll
put him anywhere like maybe the team is because they've
been mentioned tangentially to Cam Johnson. You can figure out
a way to make the money work with Cam Johnson
going to Golden State and then more money going to Brooklyn,
and Brooklyn's at that team would play the hell he'd
be running picking roles in Brooklyn probably, So let's get
it done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's just see something happen. And another guy that
I I would say he is in a much better
scenario than Moses Moode. He's being used far more. He's
actually played like thirty five minutes per game over his
last fifteen for his team. But he's almost like Keegan
Murray esque in I think he's a player that had
a lot of offensive talent coming into the league. I
think he was massively misused by the first coaching staff
that inherited him, and now he's playing for a winning team.
But he seems destined to just saw fit into this
fifth starter role. Then what are your thoughts on Jabari
Smith Junior, because I still hold out hope that this
guy could be Budget Lowry, Markinnen somewhere else. Like if
you put him in a role where you ask him
to operate off ball, where you ask him to get
going towards the room, you sort of put him in
this movement based system where it's not no three job
steps and like you know, Prime Carmelo, Anthony Shot Diet.
But he's someone that I think has been mismanaged throughout
his entire NBA career and has still somehow managed to
be a really productive player, particularly for Houston this season.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting one because I think that the real
crux of it is that Houston just has too many
guys and so I don't know that Dave improperly developed
him so much as the arc of their roster is dictated,
this is how he's used. But I'm with you on
that sounds like the optimal role for him on offense,
and I think this year, you know, it's little. At
the beginning of the year, I didn't think he was
playing enough five. I think that's ticked up a little bit.
I'm saying that anecdotally based off what I've seen, but
like being on a team or maybe he could play
not be the primary five, but play even more minutes
at the center position, where that opens up things for
him to do as a screener because he's already really
good defensively and that's not wasn't he I'm not a
draft guy like I do the crash course leading up
to it wasn't he build is like everything was about
his shooting coming out of the draft. That's why the
Magic kind of wanted him. He's shown some on ball
dynamism to be sure offensively, but just like the defense
has been I don't know the best way, Like sometimes
I feel like we conflate versatility malleability with effectiveness. In
his case, he's malleable and he's really good at it
to where like Keldon Johnson is kind of the good
barometer here where it's yeah, he'll get moved around defensively
or or Miles Bridges like, he'll get moved around defensively.
I'm not gonna be particularly good like when he's doing,
but like you can move him around. Jabar Swith Junior
is yeah, you can move him around. He's gonna be
really good. It basically everything it's just if I'm the
rockets on a want to move him because he's so good.
But when you're looking at the trajectory of well, eventually,
don't you want a bigger role for Amen Thompson, who's
basically a point four, like feels like his long term
trajectory unless you think that he's gonna operate purely off
the ball, in which case that would even lend more
merit to Oh, well, he's basically a four. And then
you have Tari Easton here it feels like Jalen Green
needs to go. That's not a change of scene ornything.
I just don't think he's what they need. But like
they're they're gonna wind up choosing between Ahmen Tari Jabbari
and al Perrin shang Gun, Like at least one of
those guys isn't gonna stick. And it feels like Aman
Thompson and al Pern shang Gun are just going to stick.
And so then it comes down to and they're both
extension eligible this summer. Is it Tarri or Jabari Smith Junior?
And when you look at what they can do offensively,
Tarry Easton is clearly that's more scalable. But he's more
plug and play, like you don't have to worry about
his uses as much as you would Jabari's.
Speaker 2: I think that there's just more redundancy having Jabari in
that role, and I wonder how their respective trade values
would be perceived around the league. I remember the first
time we podcasted together down it was during the summer,
and we spoke about Tari as this player that multiple
contending teams could potentially target as like, please, someone go
get Tari Easton out of there. But he's so sort
of tenacious and aggressive on the defensive end that he's
still being able to carve out a really big role
in Houston this year. It's more of just a it's
a fancy of mine. It's a wish that we get
to see Jabari in a different scenario. I think I
spoke about the Rockets with it might have been with
Chuck of the Chuck and Darts podcast, and I just said,
if only the two sorry Boston assistants could have joined
together and done a joint coaching job, because if you
could have had Will Hardy coaching the offensive side of
the ball in Houston and then you leave Emay to
do the defensive stuff, I think we'd be in this
perfect position where it's like, you know, readers set on
the table for everyone was getting played. Jabari's running these
routes off the ball. But I wonder how much like
coaching time there has been in Houston to where they've
implemented this a really aggressive man to man defensive system.
This year, it's really paid dividends. It's still a young roster.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little bit here, and
maybe the idea is that next off season Houston has
this big defensive base and then they're really ready to
develop on the offensive end, and they're really ready to
add layers of complexity to what they already do. But
if not, I think it would just be a real
waste if Jabari sort of just stays as that fifth
starter almost in like a Harrison Bonds role that we've
seen for the Spurs and the Sacramento Kings in like
this late stage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just they have Houston's roster. There's just so
many directions they're eventually gonna go or could go rather
And I don't know, like if I guess you could
say the argument against not making this decision, ever, it's
just that well, work Dylan Brooks and Fredman Fleet or temporary,
and then we're just gonna elevate all the young dudes
into the lineup, and then Atariason is someone who could
always come off the bench. But it just feels like,
even if you went that route, there's always going to
be one. I mean, we mentioned read Shepherd's name, there's
always gonna be one the two guys who are being
supremely marginalized, And it just feels like Jabbari is guaranteed
you'll be the one or one of the two that
gets marginalized because of because of the position that he
plays basically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and because of the fact that he's an
adequate three point shooter, an adequate quarter three point shooter.
It's just clear. It's just like, go do that, Go
crash the glass, and then we'll work out how to run.
Amman Thompson, Alperah and Shenggun pick and roll because at
the moment, like that feels a little bit far off
to me with their space and concerns. So it's like
you've got so many different things that you need to
figure out before it's scaling up Jabari's role, And like
you said, Jalen Green needs to move. I look at
the Houston Rosta as they are geared towards a star
trade next off season. That money comes on the books,
you can immediately move him because you've extended him now.
And it's just like you said, which piece is going
to be attached in there with a Cam Whitball, with
a Reed Shepherd and some draft picks to go and
get a start. Is it going to be Amon Thompson?
He feels like the least likely to me at the moment.
Is it Tarriesen? Is he like the headline player in
a trade? Or is Jabari Smith sort of that perfect
Goldielock zone player where it's like he was a high
draft pick. He's come in and another team sees something
that the Rockets perhaps haven't already with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be curious what you could get. I think
you could probably get like the equivalent of two first
round picks for him, would be my guess. But he's again,
he's extension eligible after this summer, and the Rockets are
just you don't need more picks. So if anything, it
feels like they would move him this summer or would
be one of the candidates to be moved this summer
as part of their consolidation trade that everyone wants them
to make right now.
Speaker 2: If the Rockets somehow sorry, if the Kings somehow stay together,
he is my perfect player to go to Sacramento where
it's like, let's say Houston looks and they're like, oh,
we could really do with Malik Monk. Wh're not liking
what Jalen Green has given us. Maybe there's like some
sort of Milik Monk and a pick for Jabari Smith.
You ease that defensive load on Keegan Murray, you sort
of skew towards d'aron Fox, one of demand Rows and
Keon Ellis and then Keegan Murray Jabari Smith next to
the bonus that actually looks like a three four five
that maybe works. Like we've said, Jabari is already a
really handy defender. He's a guy that can operate close
to the rim and on the perimeter as well. So
that was my dream destination for him, But it just
feels like the vibes aren't right either way for that
kind of move to happen, particularly at the trade deadline.
Speaker 1: I would love that he would be perhaps the perfect
big to play next to Wemby. Maybe perfect the strong word.
But the Spurs would be fine. But that's a team that, Okay,
you're going after their draft equity at this point, and
Houston is not at a draft equity point. And even
so that here you like, I think I would bind
me another pick or as Kean Ella is involved in there.
But then you look at it and it's so now
we've done is we've marginalized Read Shepherd even further. In Houston.
They just had so many dudes. It's a great problem
to have, but it's gonna be something I'm looking at
Read Shepherd and Cam whitmore specifically as case studies in
it seems like you're gonna bring these guys along super slowly,
and even Cam whitmore like seeing his role of decline
year over year to the degree that it has. I'm
just interested to see what does that do to It's not
their long term value, but like what they've become long term?
Can it still happen for them in Houston if they
do go and it still happened for them elsewhere? Those
are two players I'm gonna be watching really closely over
the next like you know, eight months or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cavi in particular really could have made my list
because he's a guy that I'm really quite high on,
and I think that he's showing, particularly in the Gen League,
can like inn struct his last year that he is
capable of playing another role. It's sort of like Moses
Moody a couple of years ago with Cam Whitmore right,
where maybe you look at Houston and, like we said,
too much depth, it's really hard for him to see minutes.
But personally, I think he'd be ready to go and
take a bigger role somewhere else. Maybe not to that
Moses Moody extent, But Dan, have you got anyone else
that you want to talk about before we get out
of here?
Speaker 1: I do have one more that I think needs to
be mentioned. I really think he's played well this year.
But even when he's done everything this team theoretically would
need from him, scoring, shooting well, rebounding, giving you some defense,
it's just not working to me. And that's Benanickmathern. Jarres
Walker's gotten a lot better recently in Indiana. We've seen
him play a little bit more. Bennick Mathern's a really
good player, but he does not I guess he tries
to play, but he fails a lot of the time.
He doesn't play at the cadence decision make at the
cadence that is required of an offense that you want
to retain the core of its identity before the Siakam
trade and like they're gonna be points you play slower
because Pascal Siakam breaking down defenses in the half court.
Like yeah, absolutely, sign me up for it. But they
need someone who's going to be more of a natural
fit for that catch and go role and then can
toggle between doing the on ball stuff slowing things down.
And I think, look, I still don't even think he's
like the perfect rebound or defender. But even when he's
given you those boxes, it just still hasn't felt like
the greatest fit in Indy. And so now this is
someone who is wrapping up year three and you have
to start thinking about his next deal. It would be
cooler to see him on a team that is gonna
give him the type of offensive agency that I think
his skill set not demands but prefers. But then maybe
also is just okay, you're not third or fourth in
the pecking order, like you're very much second, and like
let's see, like if you can break down defenses from there,
You're not gonna slow us up as much as it
seems like he does in Indian And then also, we're
not gonna need you to be in some lineups this,
I mean, Andrew Nemhard is kind of your undersized wing
when you're looking at the core Pacers lineup, But in reality,
it's also kind of Ben mcmathin, like, let's let him
be a two, and I don't know that Indy has
the personnel to let him be really a two at
either end of the floor. Defensively maybe, but then like
you're doing that at the cost of size elsewhere. So
I think it's probably time for both parties to move
on again. This is not the way I'm framing is like, well,
Bennedic Matthon is just like he's failed, and it's no
like the Pacers have kind of evolved beyond the type
of player he is, and he isn't a fit for
what's going to be their best style of play on
the offensive end, and he's not going to be I mean,
whatever you think about him on defense, he's just not
going to be a wing checker. And so let's get
him on a team that doesn't need that because then
he's probably more valuable to you by like if the honestly,
if the Pacers just had a wing checker who wasn't
aaron Ne Smith or Jaris Walker or Andrew Nemhard, you're
prob like or at least had someone who's better like
you have Andrew Nemhard and then okay, someone who's better
than Jaris Walker and Aaron Smith. He's probably more valuable
than the Pacers than too. And he's now in this
weird limbo, which is why I don't think they would
move him unless they're taking a megaswing where he's more
valuable to them than he's gonna be view around the
league because you've let his contract run not so long,
he's not hasn't wrapped up in your three yet, but
you've put him in a situation where, no, he's not
part of the problem, but he's not a perfect fit.
And so how it's the same thing with Jaris Walker,
even though he's playing better, is that there's because neither
of them have checked the boxes you need. It's probably
diminished their value around the league because they're being looked
at through this lens of well, they didn't do this,
and it's well, guess what, like they're not supposed to
be doing. Maybe jaris Walker when you're looking at the
defensive stuff, and he again is getting a little better
there too. But I would like to kind of see
benncmathern on more of a either a team that needs
a number two or just even more of a traditionally
rebuilding team. I just throw him in Brooklyn. I know
they got Cam Thomas, but that's that's sort of one
example there. I mean, he would be Utah could use
some more shot creation aside from the Caante George and
Larry marketing of it all. And it's like, is it
gonna be Isaiah Collier? We know it's not gonna be
Cody Williams. That looks like that was one of my
biggest draft misses of all time at the moment. So
that's the type of team I'd like to see him on.
But then you get into the dilemma of well, if
you move him, you want players or player and like
what do these teams have? Like I guess Brooklyn has
a Cam Johnson, but do they want Benne mcmatherin as
part of a larger deal? Utah is just what players
do they have that Indy would really want and they're
not going to be a team that trades draft picks,
so the type of team that he would kind of
be fun on. They need to have a player that
then fits like what Indy needs to try to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I really wonder what Benedict Mathertz
sees it. Benedict matherin season would have looked like if
aaron Ne Smith didn't get injured at the start of it,
because if you look at his game logs, in the
first four games, he plays twenty seven minutes, twenty three minutes,
twenty one minutes, and then thirteen minutes against Orlando, And
I think that aaron NEI Smith is then healthy for
a further two games, and ever since then he has
barely played less than thirty minutes per game, Like there
are two games where he's played twenty nine minutes and
fifty seven seconds basically since then. So he's had this massive,
massive role as a result of this real sort of
like hole wearing hole at the three that aaron Nesmith
had really really filled so well for them last year
when they actually looked like a good vibe scene when
they got to the Eastern Conference Finals, when it was
all really really clicking down in Indiana, and I completely
agree with you. It just feels like he's not a
bad player. It's he's not a point five player. And
I know that, like I'm saying that as someone that
doesn't necessarily like l like that term. I don't think
it defines a certain style of offense. But he needs
a little bit more time on the ball, he needs
a big to operate with potentially, like you know, he
needs to really develop his pick and roll acumen. And
at the moment, he's not good enough to be the
offensive star that like Tyrese Haliburton seeds all of his
usage to and just says like, I'll be Steve nash
Ub Kobe Bryant, We're copsetic, We're fine. But he's also
not that role player guy that you want to stick
in the corner A Lah, yeah, Jabari Smith Junior, Keegan Burray.
He's not been marginalized to that degree yet. So he's
really a bit sort of like stuck in a half way.
And I don't necessarily think that it's his fault so far.
Speaker 1: No, I'd agree with you, and I think, look, this
is probably the closest they're gonna come, I would argue,
because they have him defending wings less than he did
last year, which is good, but like, is this the best?
And honestly asking you this because to me, it feels
like this is the best it's ever gonna get for
Bennicmathern on this Pacers team and for the Pacers getting
out of him, Like, I don't know that you could
have if you're mapping out a more ideal scenario for
the two. It's Bennanickmathern kind of changing the inherent makeup
of his game, which is that's a really big ask.
Speaker 2: Or it's Garris Walker really emerging is that three as
that small forward and Benedict Matherrin just showing himself to
be a far superior offensive player to Andrew Nemhot where
it's like, no, we absolutely know that that's our team.
And then suddenly we're really big around Tyres Talibat because
that shooting god is six six as small forward is
the guy that could potentially switch on to fours and fives.
But yeah, I completely agree. I think that with the
knee Smith injury and with some of the inconsistencies that
Indiana has faced so far this year, he's had this
real extended run, and while his individual numbers look all right,
you know, she's thirty seven percent from three forty six
percent from the field, seventeen points per game, has up
the rebounding as well. Still get into the line at
that rate that had him in Rookie of the Year
consideration a couple of seasons ago. It's just not clicked
to the degree where you're like, yes, I know that
Indiana definitely wants to extend ben editmath room for twenty
to thirty million dollars a year.
Speaker 1: When it comes time, I do have another name. I
was actually not going to say him because I was nervous,
no go, because I've kind of ingratiated myself to this
fan base because I think I was ahead of their
team or understood wh they were doing more than other
national A holes like me. Okay, and I mentioned him already.
If Eron Wiggins isn't going to play more like, if
this is a sub twenty minute per game player, okay,
see very little incentive to move him. I need. I
want to see that dude in a consistently bigger role,
and I want to see, like, we know what he
does defensively, we know what he can do in theory
as a shooter, we know the rim pressure he provides.
I really would like to see a lot of more
on ball reps from him. And I recognize that Okac's
depth puts them in a tough spot, but this isn't
I'm not viewing this through an okay see lens. I
think Aaron Wiggins has the potential to be like a
top four to five player on a ridiculously good team,
and I would like to see him in a larger role.
And I don't know if it's gonna happen for him
in Oklahoma City. And that's not an insult to Oklahoma City.
They're just really good, I will say, though, like they've
skewed small and he's like more wing size than a
lot of the players they've been running out, and I
get that, Like you know, Casey and Wallace and Alex
Caruso were better defensively and they can guard up and
I love both of those players. If you're gonna tell
me whose minutes you want cut in Oka See, I'm
not gonna have a good answer there. So I just
don't see And maybe you like because I've thought about
this way too much like, like, does that make does
that logic make sense for an Aaron Wait, like it's
it's just an embarrassment of riches thing. I guess, So
I'm not I understand what OKAC has done and built,
but is there a pathway to Aaron Wiggins ever really
branching out not just functionally but just in terms of
volume to get more minutes consistently in Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2: I mean, like Alex Caruso hasn't necessarily shot the ball
incredibly well since arriving to AKC. I know that they've
committed to him long term, I think eighty one million
dollars over the course of the next four years. But
if Caruso continue to decline, continue to be guarded by
fives on the offensive end, maybe you get to a
stage where you sort of say, is his defensive output
worth it for like the suffering that we're going through
on the offensive end, where Wiggins makes a little bit
more sense. But they've also got Case and Wallace through
the door, who feels like a nice sort of halfway
house between these two players, where I don't know if
he's Joan quite the same level of defensive acumen as
Alex Caruso. But I think there are only three or
four perimited defenders in the league that have and he
is a really really good guard defender, Cason Wallace, and
he's another one of these players where I wouldn't necessarily
want him running pick and roll on my championship contending team,
but definitely showed flashes at Kentucky, definitely showed that, you know,
he's been able to scale into this really small role
where he's mainly been asked to be an off ball
shooter and a guy that makes quick decisions. So if
Aaron Wiggins ever ever does do that rise in volume,
he's doing it in a hyper competitive environment. And I
think that Dan, with the contracts sension that he signed with,
you know him and Isaiah Joe thought of as these
sacrificial lambs who aren't negative salary, who've shown himself to
be really capable NBA players. It feels to me like
these are the kinds of players that are going to
get sacrifices. Okay Se continues to sort of like try
and scoot around the second apron when they eventually extend
a Williams, a chet Holmegrim and they try and keep
SGA long term as well. And I think that they're
gonna rely on draft picks to replace the likes of
Aaron Wiggins instead of you know, moving in all the
assets to try and get another super dupe start in
the building. So I think that Aaron Wiggins eventually ends
up on another team.
Speaker 1: That's a good you know. I kind of thought of
it from the opposite direction of they want to keep
this team together, and so like you now have Aaron
Wiggins locked up for a half decade at less than
the mid level is ever gonna be. He's like, yeah, whatever,
eight percent of the salary whatever it ends up being
like throughout the life of his deal. And so it's
those guys become more valuable because you don't have to
pay them a ton and so yeah, but you're right
with Okay, see, like you're gonna get to a point though,
where you have to pay j Dubb another Shay deal
on top of chet home Grin. They probably still have
like a while before it's a major issue because Isaiah
Hart and stein Will had that team option as other
stuff is kicking in. But it probably goes either way.
Whereas if they're looking for I don't want to say,
spendable salary, but matching salary. That's not a core player.
The Isaiah Joe and Aeron Wiggins deals certainly fit that mold.
I just I really thought that Alex Caruzzo injury was
probably going to open up playing time for him, and
we've kind of just seen it go. I would say,
like Kason Wawas has seen it up there and like
Kathon Wallas was fantastic. Again, if you asked me how
do I get Aaron Wiggins more playing time and old
him and say who's the minutes are you taking? I
don't have an answer for you. And I think that's
why we might need the change of scenery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's definitely an archetype that's going to be
valuable around the league. I I just can't believe how
well oil that machine is. Man like you, if you're
in the thunder vituals getting minutes, yeah, exactly, you move
him if it's like that's the that's the that's the
area of discrepancy between you and Brooklyn. If you're sure
that Cam Johnson is the guy, They're like, no, we
absolutely want you know, Aaron Wiggins back in that trade.
We don't really care about the dropics. He's the guy
that we want as matching salary. But if not, I
definitely think that he survives the trade deadline and he's
probably here, like you said, until they get to those
extensions of Jalen Williams of Chet Holnger.
Speaker 1: I bet you he'll wind up getting This is what
they'll They'll do. They'll split the difference between both of
us as saying is he will be moved kind of
in the vein of what you're saying, like, those are
the guys that will get sacrificed, and it'll be for
distant first round draft picks. Because if you told me,
let's use the Dallas Mavericks as an example, because they
can trade their twenty thirty or twenty thirty one first
round pick. I would absolutely trade that for Aaron Wiggins.
And I bet you there's a bunch of Marricks fans
that think I'm fucking crazy, which is fine for saying that.
I don't think okay Se would accept it either. Yeah. Again,
if I'm okay, see, like I'm sitting on this incredible
deal and a really good player, I get it. It's
just like that's the tough situation where it's like all
these other players you can kind of see the benefit
to moving them, but as you mentioned, like you need
to be sure that if you're okayc like that you
even need a type of consolidation or you're looking for
a salary type upgrade or it. I guess you're not
trading Aaron Wigs unless you're getting someone who I think
you believe if they're not gonna potentially crack your closing lineup,
like you view them as one of your six or
seven most important players on the team.
Speaker 2: And at that point, I need to look up Lou
Dort's contracts. It's like Lou has obviously been an amazing
servant in Oklahoma for the past few years, but he's
also one moving salary as well, and he is locked up.
Oh my, he's locked up till twenty six, twenty seven.
Speaker 1: And that's younger. Well, then everyone might think it feels
like he's been there forever. Yeah, I will say I
think he's kind of become one of the most underrated
players in the league because everyone recognizes his defense. But
it's just like Nighten and even with all these other
guys on the team, like he still tackles these ubsurd assignments,
and then I know his shooting can be all over
the place. I'm a big believer in and anyone who
listens to the hard one not is a probably tired
of me saying this. There's value in the volume and
that dude is not afraid. Yeah, he's gonna sometimes take
these escape dripple jumpers or these drives to nowhere that
you don't necessarily want to see. But there's value in
the volume. And where Alex Caruso and even Cason Wallace
can be too passive, you don't have to worry about
that with lou Dort and so yeah, that's another salary
they could move. But do I want to move lu
door to open up minutes for Aaron Wiggins? I'm not doing.
Speaker 2: That exactly exactly, man, And it's just where do you
end up settling. I reckon that Aaron probably stays, like
we said, for at least the next season or two.
And you know, he's just one of these guys that
we get to speak about, is if only he could
be in this bigger role, if only he had that
change of scenery. I think it's interesting the kind of
players that we've identified, Like it's either been these players
that have been pigeonholed as three and D or you know,
they're in a scale down roll because of the talent
that they have around them, or it's these not quite
good enough to be number one options, therefore you have
to sort of scale them down to a two. They're
the players that we're talking about, and I don't know
what that necessarily says about the league, but there's been
a pretty clear through line throughout this episode where we
started with Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson and we're finishing
with the likes of like Ajer Barry Smith Jr. And
Aaron Wiggins Moses Moody as well. There seems to be
two types of players that in all tend to find
their spot, but in these scenarios that we've spoken about,
they haven't quite managed it for one reason or another.
Speaker 1: Is there a deep cut player that you consider that
you just like as as a form, you wouldn't spend
an entire podcast segment talking about, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: Up Wreathed, like do up Wreathed has to get on
a run, He has to play somewhere, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: He needs to go and he was on my list.
The other two they're hard on Ko's favorites. I want
to see Cody Martin on a contender because if she
is all over the place, he can be a good
connective pass or he can get going downhill. And I
really think he's versatile on defense.
Speaker 2: And there's only one place that Cody Martin needs to
end up. He needs to end up in the City
of Brotherly Love with his brother with what's his name
Caleb Martin as well. I think that that would finally
sort of fix the vibes issue in Philadelphia once and
for all.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe, but their defense has been pretty good.
I think they probably need someone who's been more consists offensively.
I've been trying to figure out a way to get
him to the Knicks, who just need that kind of
other wing type. And he can do additional stuff, but
like you can really move him around defensively. And I think,
if you're gonna, would you go ahead?
Speaker 2: Sorry, would you do? What? What would it be? It'd
be like Nick Richards and Cody Martin for Mitch Robinson
and that Fate Washington First.
Speaker 1: No, I wouldn't give up both. If Charlotte wanted to
take a flyer on, like, I'd probably give up. When
I give up the Washington pick for Cody Martin in
a vacuum. I don't know, but I wouldn't give up
both Mitch and that for the first I mean, you
would have to tell me that Mitch like isn't gonna
play again until twenty twenty six or something.
Speaker 2: So it ended up being more of like a precious
and pack of Mad Daddy A or Precious and Tyler Kolek.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then in that respect, you're only getting Cody Martin
because it won't be enough to get Nick Richards, and
I would do that and then the other guy, and
he's been probably one of my longest siren songs, Chris Bouchet.
I know that there the three point percentage isn't there.
I know he's chaotic on defense and he's not. He
can't really play the five, and some times he might
be able to Anyone who is so committed to closing
out and blocking jump shots will forever have a special
place in my heart. And it doesn't always end well,
but you know that there's going to be entertainment there,
and so I still consider him even though the numbers
will not support it. He's like he'd probably appear for
but you can get away with some of the five.
And I view him as like a floor spacing defender,
and I would like to see him in a larger
or at least more consistent role in Toronto Is as
they've gotten a little healthier, Like with Kelly Ollenic back,
his minutes have again been all over the place. So
a team that needs.
Speaker 3: A backup big, I would say, according to Yeah, according
to raps Is Republican Samson folk like the Toronto Rapses
have an agenda against Chris Bouchet for some reason.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the management stuff or like
the front office, but they say, night after night, Chris
Bouchet should be playing more minutes. Man. Look at what
he does on the boards. Look at how he can
actually occasionally space from three. Look at the commitment that
he brings to a rebuilding team who have currently gone
through their worst ever like three game stretch. If you
look at point Differential, it's a dark, dark week for
Tonta Raps his fans, unless you're looking at Tankathon. So yeah,
he really feels like a player that doesn't belong on
that rebuilding team where he's more likely to give you ten.
Really gritty minutes when it matters than like really like
elevate a rebuilding team where Jacobe Walter, Grady Dick and
all right Choon Chay is still trying to find their feet.
Speaker 1: He'd be Look, we've mentioned Sacramento, he's like kind of before.
He'd be interesting there. You could play him with the
bones or use him as your primary backup big. I
think play him next to Wemby and San Antonio. I
will do a podcast why twenty nine other teams should
trade for Chris Bucher because he's a good fit.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say we should have a drinking game
for every time you say he'd be a good fit
next to it to when Banyolba in San Antonio, because
it's gone from Zion Williamson to Chris Bouchet and like
everyone in between. It's just Webby is the guy that
everyone fits next to.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he needs to get in the paint more.
But just like the element that he has from the
perimeter allows you to play basically any other big alongside him,
which I don't think is something people considered possible when
he ended the week.
Speaker 2: It allows you to play any other big beside him,
allows him to always be back in transition defense, which
is great on the other end when you're looking for
that foundation, and it allows him to stay a little
bit more contacted versus well where you're not asking him
to play his trade down underwear. I'm not even saying,
like the night after night toll of banging bodies, you're
reducing your chance of a twisted ankle, of a sprain
of something like that when you're operating thirty feet out,
particularly sort of during the regular season, where we might
already be at the stage where Vick is so good,
it's like, let's just nurse the health. Let's keep developing
the game from the outside, and maybe when we get
to playoff time, play in time, we might see him
operate a little bit more inside out. But at the moment,
I'm not going to go and tell that guy that
he needs to do anything different. Keep playing chess in
Washington Square. Part.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I favor that he seems he's like a maniacal
competitor who also seems really fun, and I sometimes feel
like you have to almost be one or the other.
Not that I think it's probably easier to be really
fun and like highly competitive, but these maniacal competitors that
get idealized or mythologized even they're not like known for
being relatable, and he he's not the least bit relatable.
He's from another planet. He's like nine feet tall, and
yet he just feels so relatable. So I favor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I think when Brian Windhors went out there
and he said, oh, what do you do for fun?
He's like sleep, everyone felt that at a certain point
of yeah, we all need to prioritize that sleep in
this eighteen year old seven football guy's already ahead of
the curtain in terms of that maturity. And it just
seems like he's he's building up that ultimate profile of
like boyfriends that the dad wants to see walk through
the door. It's like, oh, what do you get up too,
young man? Like I played for the San Antonio Spurs.
I get out chess in my spare time. I just
focused on my sleep and everything really body conscious, do
all we stretches pre game. He's he's again like the
ultimate good vibes player and just happens to be playing
like a sub MVP level or beyond, dependent on what
you want to call that. Like I've lost ten to
fifteen games.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have I have no No, it's nothing dead one.
He's going to be honestly, he might finish. I wouldn't
predicted at this point he's gonna make all NBA, but
there was like a chance he's gonna finish in the
top five of MVP building and I don't think you
can come with arguments against it, but you can't be
offended if that happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really excited to see how that works out
come sort of the end of the year. And I
think that if the Spurs keep on rolling, and maybe
if they rescue one of our players that we spoken
about that needs a change of scenery, maybe they push
theirselves towards a little bit more of a postseason scenario.
And that's where we could see when be getting some
insane conversations for a second year player.
Speaker 1: They can trade for all of them. They can trade
for do operat Cody Mark, and that will get them
to the twenty twenty five NBA Finals probably. I feel
pretty confident saying that.
Speaker 2: And Dan, if they do that, I will absolutely have
you back on again. Thank you so much for coming on. Man.
I've had a lot of fun talking about these guys
that need to change of scenery. One thing you won't
need is a change of scenery from listening to Hardwood Knox.
They put out great content and they've been spashing it
day after day through the Christmas period. They got me
through my present wrapping, through some like looking around the
stores as well, So as you come into your newdia,
make sure you're listening to them, Dan, what if you've
got coming up for the loyal listeners.
Speaker 1: Like you said, Harran after you had a bunch of
content being pumped out there, and thank you for the
kind words most importantly, and you can also check out
my work, my musings, my thoughts over at Bleacher Report
as well. I have content that goes up there like
daily basically, so check it out over there.
Speaker 2: Guys, all links down below, make sure you go and
check out Dan. I'm pretty sure if you're listening to
the drop Step you know who Dan Favaley is, so
absolutely keep up the support there and keep it lots
on the drop Step. I've actually got a fair few
podcasts lined up before I get back to the classrooms,
so hopefully some good content going out in the next
few days. Thank you for making this one of your
first listens of twenty twenty five. Thank you for making
it towards the end. If you're here, oh my god. Yeah,
we'll see you all next time. Dan, thanks for coming on, guys,
thanks for listening.