Speaker 1: Meaning a man like this man letting butterfly flapping his wing.
Speaker 1: They've down in a force.
Speaker 2: Man, it gonna cause the tree fall, letting five thousand
Speaker 2: miles away.
Speaker 3: Man, nobody see nobody else. See you don't need no Man's.
Speaker 1: Like you followed another story and.
Speaker 3: You got back to flect that that's the way.
Speaker 1: Man don't blackly d on Panela man, Man, you don't
Speaker 1: no matter man anyway.
Speaker 2: One of the things that sets us apart from the
Speaker 2: conservatives is a certain degree of open mindedness. Conservatism, in
Speaker 2: my mind, is more of a personality trait than uh
Speaker 2: political ideology. It is the personality trait that says things
Speaker 2: are working pretty well, let's not rock the boat, sort
Speaker 2: of a strong abiding belief in the status quo ante.
Speaker 2: And that difference between us and them expresses in a
Speaker 2: number of ways. That openness that has led us to
Speaker 2: controversial ideas, to ideas that are not widely expressed, is
Speaker 2: also shown in the art scene. The right wing art
Speaker 2: scene is very different from the Daily Wire TV productions,
Speaker 2: the Cash Betel children's books, the creative output of the conservatives,
Speaker 2: so to speak, It's a different thing, even if it
Speaker 2: is both under the broad p number of right wing art,
Speaker 2: and because we have that both that creativity but also
Speaker 2: desire to analyze, Like, look, there's a lot of this
Speaker 2: show that is fundamentally media analysis. You could even look
Speaker 2: at something like gamer gait, right. Many of us came
Speaker 2: to this through looking at cultural art facts and pulling
Speaker 2: them apart. What does that say? What is the belief
Speaker 2: behind that? What does that tell us about the creator?
Speaker 2: And also about the world in and of itself? And
Speaker 2: this is expressed, for instance, in the concept of media
Speaker 2: literacy right, where progressives will say, you know, there's only
Speaker 2: one way to interpret this, and they look at things
Speaker 2: like you know, the Joker movie, The Boys, stuff like
Speaker 2: that and say, oh, don't you get it, this is
Speaker 2: making fun of you, where us in ours pick through
Speaker 2: it and say, oh that, you know, that's something I
Speaker 2: can relate to, that's something I enjoy. There's that sort
Speaker 2: of back and forth in the culture war. But one
Speaker 2: of the most abidingly irritating things from my perspective about
Speaker 2: this is that because progressives have cultural hegemony, right, they
Speaker 2: get to call the shots. They're in charge of the institutions,
Speaker 2: government and also cultural and so they get to set
Speaker 2: that kind of null hypothesis the generally accepted values. And
Speaker 2: one of the most irritating things is because of that control,
Speaker 2: they get to have their cake and eat it too.
Speaker 2: They get to dress up, to play pretend as revolutionaries,
Speaker 2: to play pretend as if they are bucking the system,
Speaker 2: while in actuality having the exact same values as Chase
Speaker 2: Bank or Wells Fargo. Several moments that I can think
Speaker 2: of really express this one. The Summer of Love couple
Speaker 2: buddies are over having a good old fashioned land party
Speaker 2: playing twenty nineteen Modern Warfare, a bunch of guys in
Speaker 2: a basement, and the game kicks us out after install
Speaker 2: an update. And when we see the update load, after
Speaker 2: the forty five minutes of all these consoles spinning up,
Speaker 2: and what happens, Well, nothing has changed except for Black
Speaker 2: Lives Matter and the menu. Every menu couldn't escape it, right,
Speaker 2: This massive cultural product funding from the DoD, hundreds of
Speaker 2: millions of dollars in revenue and costs put on by Activision,
Speaker 2: This massive entertainment product, well, it has the same values
Speaker 2: as this quote unquote revolutionary leftist throwing bricks into a
Speaker 2: flaming AutoZone. Another one, remember years ago during June going
Speaker 2: to pull out some money from Wells Fargo, right, one
Speaker 2: of the biggest companies in the world. And there's an
Speaker 2: unskippable pride message, right, like Wells Fargo wishes you a
Speaker 2: happy Pride Month or whatever. And again the values of
Speaker 2: the revolutionary left being parroted by one of the biggest
Speaker 2: financial corporations in the world, right, a huge multinational corporation.
Speaker 2: And despite the fact they share those values, they still
Speaker 2: get to play pretend as revolutionaries. They get to play
Speaker 2: pretend as if they are the plucky rebels up against
Speaker 2: the empire and the genuine dissidence. You or I, anyone
Speaker 2: listening to this, we are in fact representatives of this
Speaker 2: sort of shadow elite, the Russians, the Chinese, the secret
Speaker 2: racist to pull the strings. And so despite the fact
Speaker 2: that they share values with the most powerful corporations, the
Speaker 2: most powerful universities, governments, even or really they're the underdogs.
Speaker 2: This sort of self conception of the rebel, and you
Speaker 2: can trace it through any number of things. Right, Milton Satan,
Speaker 2: you're the man or the angel I guess, cast out
Speaker 2: of habit, sort of the archetype of this rebel. And
Speaker 2: because of that, he's been subjected to this character to
Speaker 2: endless number of character studies by the progressives of his day,
Speaker 2: obviously falling out of fashion because Milton was a seventeenth
Speaker 2: century British writer. But you see the same thing with
Speaker 2: the French Revolution, the Spanish Civil War, always casting themselves
Speaker 2: as the rebels, even in a situation where it's completely
Speaker 2: and totally absurd, And you still see that in the arts.
Speaker 2: For instance, recently Banksy was not only unmasked, I think
Speaker 2: many people for the first time became aware of who
Speaker 2: he was, but also he unveiled a new sculpture, very stunning,
Speaker 2: very brave of a guy with flag and holding it
Speaker 2: up triumphantly, and the trail of the flag was blinding
Speaker 2: his face. The critique of course being this is what
Speaker 2: nationalism does. It blinds you, you moron. But the deep
Speaker 2: irony is that that sentiment, his whole artistic persona of
Speaker 2: being an edgy rebel, Well, those are the exact same
Speaker 2: values of the UK government. Those are the exact same
Speaker 2: values of the state under which he lives. And if
Speaker 2: he was actually a genuine threat to power, who's genuinely
Speaker 2: speaking truth what we know in the UK, he'd be
Speaker 2: in jail be referred to prevent they would get him.
Speaker 2: Not only does he enjoy the advantages of being the
Speaker 2: court just the chosen sort of artistic representative of the regime,
Speaker 2: but he also gets to play pretend. He gets both
Speaker 2: both the advantages of rebellion the advantages of being bucking
Speaker 2: the trend, but without any of the costs. And you
Speaker 2: see this more and more through really the last sixty
Speaker 2: seventy years of media. In this interview, we mentioned multiple
Speaker 2: times John Lennon's imagine, which is sort of the positive
Speaker 2: vision our elite to operate in service of the sort
Speaker 2: of non individuated society of gray Goo. There's no race,
Speaker 2: no culture, no religion. Everyone is simply an atomized unit
Speaker 2: searching for utles, searching for self expression in whatever way
Speaker 2: they see fit, which conceptually you'd imagine leads to infinite
Speaker 2: expression infinite diversity quote unquote, But as someone who lives
Speaker 2: in this world, you will understand it just means everyone
Speaker 2: turns into the same person in slightly different skin toned.
Speaker 2: There's no real culture, sure anymore. Everyone has been sort
Speaker 2: of to adopt a Marxist Lenz kind of sublimated under
Speaker 2: is kind of like Globo Homo capitalist project, and it's made,
Speaker 2: like any form of artistic expression, very difficult. We talk
Speaker 2: about AI a bunch in this episode, and I don't
Speaker 2: like talking about AI. It's sort of the refuge of
Speaker 2: Midwich to talk about it. But there is something weird
Speaker 2: about it. It both is this great aggregator again, the
Speaker 2: kind of gray group of everything, a thousand images pulled
Speaker 2: into one technically original one. But again, there are things
Speaker 2: that cannot do, There are areas it cannot go. It
Speaker 2: is bound in that way, and so it's set this
Speaker 2: very narrow band for real expression. I'm friends with a
Speaker 2: lot of writers, friends with a lot of artists, Carl Dahl,
Speaker 2: Andy Edwards, John Slaughter, people who have been on my
Speaker 2: show numerous times. And it's interesting to me because you
Speaker 2: could look at that as as right wing are Maybe
Speaker 2: that's true, but fundamentally these are not really political books.
Speaker 2: They aren't didactic. There isn't a scene at the end
Speaker 2: where you get the author's manifesto with the rs. They're human,
Speaker 2: they're genuine expression. It exists in the cracks of the
Speaker 2: sort of totalizing regime. The things you can't talk about,
Speaker 2: the audience, you can't reach out to and I mean
Speaker 2: that's real rebellion, that's real self expression. Those guys are
Speaker 2: way more authentic, to use sort of a buzzword than
Speaker 2: the canned rebellion of Banksy, of Green Day of Rage
Speaker 2: against the machine of John Lennon. The fake, sort of
Speaker 2: synthetic lie of rebellion as sold to you by Chase Bank,
Speaker 2: is sold to you by Paramount, is sold to you
Speaker 2: by the globalists that take a page from Alex Jones notebook.
Speaker 2: And I think that's an interesting, interesting gap here where
Speaker 2: I I won't name any details at all, but I've
Speaker 2: been talking to friends who've been approached by the system
Speaker 2: because of their creative work. And there's an interesting anecdote
Speaker 2: on the phone with a guy and he was talking
Speaker 2: to someone interested in something he created to try and
Speaker 2: transform it into a mainstream product. And the guy said,
Speaker 2: you know, it's so rare to find authenticity, and when
Speaker 2: you do, its gold. Obviously, the idea being that if
Speaker 2: you can find something authentic and exploit it, you can
Speaker 2: make yourself a lot of money. And when we look
Speaker 2: at you know, whether it's Hollywood, whether it's the major
Speaker 2: streaming services, video games, even there's very little of that authenticity,
Speaker 2: very little of that human expression. Everything feels homogenized, Everything
Speaker 2: feels the same, Everything feels as if it is designed
Speaker 2: by committee consensus, an algorithm designed to hit certain boxes.
Speaker 2: And when something has an auteur, when it has someone
Speaker 2: who is sol and totally in charge of something, it
Speaker 2: doesn't have that effect. It's maybe not mathematically optimized, but
Speaker 2: it's real. And so I think that there is a
Speaker 2: turn to sort of raid us for our cultural output.
Speaker 2: And might say us, I don't just mean the people
Speaker 2: listening to this, but that kind of bleeding edge of authenticity,
Speaker 2: that bleeding edge of genuine expression, because their system, you know,
Speaker 2: the kind of system of homogenization, John Lennon's imagine the
Speaker 2: kind of dual faced Janice God that is on one
Speaker 2: hand Winston Churchill and on the other John Lennon, you know,
Speaker 2: this sort of chimera. There was an explosion at the beginning.
Speaker 2: You look at the music of the fifties through let's
Speaker 2: just say the nineties, and there's an arc there. It's
Speaker 2: an immense amount of creativity, but it seems to have
Speaker 2: burnt out, seems to have exhausted any sort of capital
Speaker 2: it has. You see this in music, they are more
Speaker 2: and more of these kind of throwback acts, many of
Speaker 2: whom I like again, but it feels as if there's
Speaker 2: nothing new, and at the same time, you know, Hollywood
Speaker 2: or video games, more and more we see these remakes,
Speaker 2: these retrip things of some feeling they're not making the money, which, okay,
Speaker 2: fair enough, simply being financially profitable is to not make
Speaker 2: it good art, but it is a sign that things
Speaker 2: are bad for that industry. More and more of these companies,
Speaker 2: more and more of these sort of media empires, are
Speaker 2: being forced to reckon with the fact that they lack
Speaker 2: any authenticity. I mean, another great example is the Daily Wire.
Speaker 2: According to reporting, I think Ben Shapiro's down ninety percent.
Speaker 2: He's widely seen as fake, as inauthentic. And so what
Speaker 2: does he do?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: He starts Fortnite streaming, which is, you know, hilariously out
Speaker 2: of touch and kind of embarrassing. But what is that, Well,
Speaker 2: it's a desire to grasp onto something that whichever group
Speaker 2: of kind of cobolistic supercomputers controls the Daily Wire, a
Speaker 2: desire to frantically grab authenticity, like oh what a what
Speaker 2: are real people like? Uh? Fortnite streaming? I guess, and
Speaker 2: sure that's out of date, that's embarrassing, but you see
Speaker 2: that flailing and you see that desperate desire to regain
Speaker 2: some sort of human connection. And I don't think they
Speaker 2: can do it. But this thing of ours, if you will,
Speaker 2: I see it. I see that there's real artists, and
Speaker 2: not just in the sense of promise like oh, one day,
Speaker 2: but there's guys we're good, really good, who should have
Speaker 2: a publishing deal and they don't for any number of reasons.
Speaker 2: I mean, the same reasons that we're all underemployed, you know, underutilized.
Speaker 2: But that's exciting. We're seeing culture and we're seeing things
Speaker 2: that are good from new writers, from guys who haven't
Speaker 2: been around, who don't have a massive bibliography, and it's like, well, man,
Speaker 2: if this is good, if this is novel number two,
Speaker 2: what are you gonna do with number three? When someone
Speaker 2: finally gives you the money to make a film, to
Speaker 2: make short film, to do anything like this is going
Speaker 2: to catch fire. It's incredibly exciting. And I think it's
Speaker 2: also important to bear in mind that this sort of panopticon,
Speaker 2: this totalizing system, this sort of gray goo homogenization, it
Speaker 2: falls into the category of many things. You've heard me
Speaker 2: talk about this with foreign policy, with the nation of Israel,
Speaker 2: which is a goal that is obviously desired. People want
Speaker 2: that to happen, but from my perspective, it's impossible. So
Speaker 2: the Greater Israel project, the idea that there will be
Speaker 2: this sort of Laban's realm where every country is completely
Speaker 2: and totally dysfunctional, subservient to the Zionist state, Well, clearly
Speaker 2: people want that, but can that actually be done? Is
Speaker 2: that something that can be accomplished? The separate question. Similarly,
Speaker 2: this kind of one world panopticon, you know, everyone managed, everyone,
Speaker 2: you know, perfectly controlled by the algorithm. Clearly people want that.
Speaker 2: Clearly that is something that our elites, certainly some of
Speaker 2: them are desirous of. But it brings up the question
Speaker 2: is that possible? And I don't think it is because
Speaker 2: the exact same trends and forces which are turning cultural
Speaker 2: output into slop. Right, nothing feels competently done anymore. Well,
Speaker 2: we're seeing it in governance as well. There is something
Speaker 2: about human nature that resists this sort of homogenization. And
Speaker 2: when I say resists, I don't mean in like a
Speaker 2: fund or a great way. These systems just tend to
Speaker 2: catabalize themselves or tend to break under their own weight.
Speaker 2: But it really reminds me of the Tower of Babel Babbel.
Speaker 2: However you say it, depending on what area of the
Speaker 2: country you grew up in. But this idea of this
Speaker 2: one human system, this one world government, the tower that
Speaker 2: will reach to heaven, this great project, and it's cast
Speaker 2: into chaos. It doesn't work. We see that in politics
Speaker 2: all the time. And when these one party states, this
Speaker 2: politics cease to exist well on a party level, perhaps
Speaker 2: you know, look at the you know, minor voting districts
Speaker 2: in California. They're never going red, but there still is
Speaker 2: politics there. There's still is disunity. There still is fracture
Speaker 2: along different lines, along lines that I don't think are
Speaker 2: particularly good. I don't think that, you know, neighborhoods in
Speaker 2: America should basically function as you know, a political race
Speaker 2: war between you know, one immigrant group and the other.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's good. But you do see that
Speaker 2: that there is no possible homogenization in that way, particularly
Speaker 2: when these people are getting stupider. The competence that our
Speaker 2: system requires is becoming rarer and rarer, and I think
Speaker 2: that there is an unconscious who knows maybe conscious desire
Speaker 2: to plug that gap in human capital with AI idiot. Oh,
Speaker 2: we can have this great tool that will negate the
Speaker 2: need for competent and capable men. And again, I think
Speaker 2: that is a desired outcome, but I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's a possible one. I don't think that they can
Speaker 2: do it. I mean, if I did you know that
Speaker 2: we were just one or two years away from a
Speaker 2: libtard panompicon, well, I'd probably be living in the woods
Speaker 2: Uncle Ted's style. I wouldn't be outdoing this. But clearly
Speaker 2: they're pushing for it because I don't think they have
Speaker 2: another alternative. I think that there is a sort of
Speaker 2: creeping realization that they're kind of, as the kids would say,
Speaker 2: kind of cooked, that that voted force, that feeling behind
Speaker 2: it is running out that no one believes in this
Speaker 2: thing in the same way that the immense head the
Speaker 2: tailwind they got from this explosion of cultural creativity, the
Speaker 2: sort of baseline brainwashing done by Hollywood and music that
Speaker 2: sort of laid the ground, It made straight the path,
Speaker 2: if you will. Well, it doesn't work in the same
Speaker 2: way either, due to again declining competence or simply kind
Speaker 2: of overuse in oculation. The spell doesn't work anymore. The
Speaker 2: strategy that you adopted and that you abused for generations
Speaker 2: what isn't quite as cutting edge anymore. And then I
Speaker 2: guess is why I'm so interested in our right wing
Speaker 2: cultural output because to me, that says, this is something
Speaker 2: that's being born. There's something alive here, there's something that
Speaker 2: is nacient, sure, but still exciting, still interesting, And so
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, it's hopeful in my mind that
Speaker 2: there is something alive here, a weak flame, maybe an
Speaker 2: ember even, but it's not ash. And to me it
Speaker 2: seems as if they're left with ashes growing ever colder,
Speaker 2: if you can forgive a slightly florid phrase. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it's something that I take a lot of hope in
Speaker 2: that I'm quite interested in. But I've been in the
Speaker 2: appen for long enough. Kick it over to this interview
Speaker 2: with Rusty Cage guy. I'm really glad to have on.
Speaker 2: I like throwing in these sort of curveballs, you know,
Speaker 2: not the guys you expect. It's a fun interview. He's
Speaker 2: done good work. You should check out his most recent
Speaker 2: music video, Apac Money. No points for guessing what that's about.
Speaker 2: As far as my stuff, Jay Burton Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
Speaker 2: anywhere you listen to podcast, you can find me there.
Speaker 2: If you want to support me, this is what I
Speaker 2: do a few bucks a month Patreon, substacker, com, Roade
Speaker 2: episodes early in ad free. Really appreciate it. Guys, couldn't
Speaker 2: do this without you and without further ado. Here's the show.
Speaker 2: All right, Rusty Cage, welcome to the Jay Burden Show.
Speaker 2: How you doing, man?
Speaker 3: Hello, very good, very good. It's good to be on
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I'm glad to have you on. You have
Speaker 2: been a victim of my just I'm gonna be honest,
Speaker 2: appalling ability to schedule and reply to dms sort of
Speaker 2: a miracle. You're here just due to my own inability
Speaker 2: to manage my inbox. So thanks for bearing with me. Dude.
Speaker 3: No, man, it's the exact same. I feel bad replying
Speaker 3: to anyone one time because I feel like they're gonna
Speaker 3: follow up and then I'm just gonna miss that. So
Speaker 3: I opened a connection and instantly close in and say,
Speaker 3: all right, I'm not I guess we're not gonna collab.
Speaker 3: Whoever emailed me three months ago or whatever, dude.
Speaker 2: Honestly, the unsolicited emails are some of my favorite. I
Speaker 2: never shared them because most of them are complete, like
Speaker 2: just trash. But there is a non licensed physician, an
Speaker 2: end time scholar, okay, who has been sending me PDFs
Speaker 2: of his books to review for like two years, and
Speaker 2: at this point I almost want to bring him on,
Speaker 2: but also I sort of feel like it would be
Speaker 2: taking advantage of this like clinically insane man to give
Speaker 2: him a platform. But I do read all his emails.
Speaker 2: So if you're listening, doctor whatever, if you are a doctor,
Speaker 2: keep sending them. I keep reading them. It's not gonna work,
Speaker 2: but I appreciate the gesture.
Speaker 3: It's good that you're taking the time to read them.
Speaker 3: I get a lot of Skitzo's in my emails, you know,
Speaker 3: sending either just long long lists of Bible quotes and
Speaker 3: talking about the angels of death and hmm, how to
Speaker 3: avoid Satan and whatnot. And I was thinking, you know,
Speaker 3: I wanted to make videos showing it off, but I
Speaker 3: think poking a schizophrenic with a stick is not necessarily
Speaker 3: the best thing to do, especially when you're a public
Speaker 3: figure that someone can easily find out where you live.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean to that point. Man, if you if
Speaker 2: you read comments, you will drive yourself insane. Yes, but
Speaker 2: there are a number of long term detractors that I
Speaker 2: genuinely love and find very funny. One of whom I
Speaker 2: will not be saying their screen name, but I think
Speaker 2: is a legitimate schizophrenic because he gives me like two
Speaker 2: to four pages of very thought out advice from the
Speaker 2: perspective of a lunatic. So he'll be like, hey, man,
Speaker 2: your script is pretty good for this episode, but I
Speaker 2: think you need to change this, this and this point.
Speaker 2: And I appreciate the thought. You know. It's like, all right,
Speaker 2: you're engaging. You know, that's certainly helpful, You're paying attention.
Speaker 2: But also I don't know how to break it to
Speaker 2: you that I am nowhere near the level of script
Speaker 2: writer you think I am, because my script is me
Speaker 2: sending someone a DM on Twitter and then kind of
Speaker 2: bsing for an hour. Right, there's no grand scheme, but
Speaker 2: I still do read as messages. But Rusty, obviously, I'm
Speaker 2: aware of who you are and what you do, but
Speaker 2: my audience might not be so well, who are you? Man?
Speaker 3: Well, at this point, i'd have to say that I'm
Speaker 3: a has been or never was, as they would say
Speaker 3: on the Internet. I mean, I've been on making content
Speaker 3: on YouTube and ship for fucking I don't know, sixteen
Speaker 3: years or so. I make a lot of music, some
Speaker 3: serious music, some parody, satirical music, but I don't know. Mainly,
Speaker 3: it's like I'm just trying to figure out every possible
Speaker 3: way that I cannot go back working a nine to
Speaker 3: five as an unskilled laborer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I was having this. I was having this
Speaker 2: conversation recently with someone in my personal life. And look
Speaker 2: like I went to college for all the good that
Speaker 2: did me, And so we're having that conversation of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: whatever you're doing now sucks, but at least it's better
Speaker 2: than whatever that job is. And so what is your like,
Speaker 2: at least I'm not doing X like worst job you had.
Speaker 3: It's it's honestly working for a boss and knowing that
Speaker 3: your like an hour of your life is worth whatever
Speaker 3: they're paying you. I would rather make nothing doing nothing,
Speaker 3: but know that I could use that time to make
Speaker 3: something that I don't know could greatly benefit my life.
Speaker 3: It could make more money, could set me up to
Speaker 3: have income coming in later or whatever. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's all about like trying to be free from a
Speaker 3: specific system. But I think that that dream of going
Speaker 3: the route of being an Internet influencer or whatever they
Speaker 3: call it now is kind of dying because that's the
Speaker 3: standard that all young people have to be a part
Speaker 3: of in every industry. You have to be in front
Speaker 3: of everyone's face constantly on all the apps, building up
Speaker 3: your Instagram and building up your TikTok, and that's the
Speaker 3: only way to get people to listen to a song
Speaker 3: that you just put out, so they stream it on Spotify.
Speaker 3: And it seems like it's a new version of wage
Speaker 3: slavery because no one seems to like it. Everyone feels
Speaker 3: I get a lot of feeling that people seem to
Speaker 3: resent having to wake up and film six tiktoks to
Speaker 3: promote their brand. I know that's just the way it
Speaker 3: is because now everyone has the technology to do that themselves,
Speaker 3: versus back in the day where not everyone knew how
Speaker 3: to edit a video or how to use a camera
Speaker 3: or how to get good audio out of a microphone.
Speaker 3: But now the technology is there, everyone has it, so
Speaker 3: the competition is huge and instead of say ten years ago,
Speaker 3: trying to compete with two hundred thousand people who might
Speaker 3: have a skill level that is worthy of someone watching
Speaker 3: versus now it's just millions and millions.
Speaker 2: Well, it's honestly, I feel like something similar happened in music,
Speaker 2: where once production value got really cheap. You see this
Speaker 2: explosion in lo fi. Like obviously you have the kind
Speaker 2: of like lo fi revival of like ten years ago,
Speaker 2: but even I think of the like transition from a
Speaker 2: lot of the like math rock stuff, which is more
Speaker 2: highly produced still relatively low fi, into the like true
Speaker 2: djen like epunk in cell core stuff is from like
Speaker 2: twenty twenty to even now, where it's like now there's
Speaker 2: a weird authenticity to not trying at all, sounding like
Speaker 2: you recorded something on your air pods, and like I
Speaker 2: think about this where it's like the I guess you'd say,
Speaker 2: like the market for culture is really weird now because
Speaker 2: especially and look, dude, there's two conversations I hate having.
Speaker 2: One is dating discourse and the other is AI discourse,
Speaker 2: which are just like the stupidest cul de sac conversations ever.
Speaker 2: But truly, like AI does allow production value for next
Speaker 2: to nothing, and it is this weird and it's not
Speaker 2: everything but there is this weird market for like almost
Speaker 2: like deliberately low production value because it feels realer it's
Speaker 2: been like something that's super produced. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, authenticity is absolutely always going to be the winner,
Speaker 3: you know, if anything, it's just overproduced in general, say
Speaker 3: you're spending too much time, or you have all the
Speaker 3: perfect plug ins, or you bring it to the best
Speaker 3: producers and the music that you're actually making doesn't fit
Speaker 3: the sound of it, you know, like the attitude of
Speaker 3: the music doesn't fit the production quality. That's inauthentic. It's weird,
Speaker 3: and I think people can enjoy music and might enjoy
Speaker 3: it actually better if it sounds closer to something that
Speaker 3: they're familiar making, or it feels closer because it's more attainable.
Speaker 3: And what AI seems to do on the production level
Speaker 3: is polish everything up a little bit too much. It
Speaker 3: makes it a little bit inhuman. It's the quantization quantization
Speaker 3: of beats. For instance, if you're using MIDI beats and
Speaker 3: you're trying to make you know, kick snare, kick snare,
Speaker 3: high hat, high hat, you have the option to make
Speaker 3: all those fit perfectly on the beats, but that sounds
Speaker 3: a little bit too robotic, and so then there's this
Speaker 3: other effect called human eyes, which essentially takes things that
Speaker 3: are too perfectly on beat and they shift them a
Speaker 3: little bit so it sounds a little off and more fluent.
Speaker 3: And why would they even have that at all except
Speaker 3: people want things that feel human. They want mistakes a
Speaker 3: little bit, and they want quality not to be one
Speaker 3: hundred percent perfect, because that's where character comes out, is
Speaker 3: in the flaws, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Oh, one hundred percent. Like this is a weird example,
Speaker 2: but I think about this all the time, Like I'm
Speaker 2: I only seem like a Tucker Carlson fan, but I
Speaker 2: feel like a certain amount of affection for him for
Speaker 2: really weird reason, which is he has the most grading
Speaker 2: off putting laugh of any human on the planet. And
Speaker 2: you know, if there's like a debate coach in the room,
Speaker 2: or like a producer, they would be like, never do
Speaker 2: that again, Like, whatever you do, don't make that noise
Speaker 2: because you sound like a weird country club space alien.
Speaker 2: And you hear that, and you're like, Okay, that's a
Speaker 2: that's a kind of weird. Like if one of my
Speaker 2: buddies did that, I'd probably make fun of them for it.
Speaker 2: But it's not super produced. And even though like obviously
Speaker 2: the guy's got ungodly amounts of money, a crazy production staff,
Speaker 2: Like even that little touch, you're like, Okay, that feels real.
Speaker 2: And if you look at.
Speaker 3: Andy dun inntionally, I think m because he knows that's
Speaker 3: a part of his image. Now everyone knows that characteristic
Speaker 3: foppish giggle. I honestly I thought that that was at
Speaker 3: one point I was thinking that was maybe you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know if he's fucking Cia Jason or what,
Speaker 3: but a way of throwing people off by if you're
Speaker 3: having this serious conversation with them and they say something
Speaker 3: intense and then you go oh, and then go what
Speaker 3: does that really mean? Like they have that has to
Speaker 3: be very unsettling for the person he's talking about. It
Speaker 3: true like an interrogation tactic almost, it's.
Speaker 2: Even more sinister, rusty. It's not a small sliver of humanity.
Speaker 2: It's actually a deliberate, lab designed technique to break down
Speaker 2: your psyche. Like it's mk ultra and it's just Tucker
Speaker 2: laughing for thirty eight hours or you're like dosed on LSD.
Speaker 3: Yes, Well, I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm I
Speaker 3: kind of. I'm not the most laugh out loud person,
Speaker 3: but some people definitely have a canned laugh. They have
Speaker 3: a forced laugh and it comes off very weird. Joe
Speaker 3: Rogan has one too, where it's like you're laughing for
Speaker 3: the sake of making laugh noises to signal to the
Speaker 3: audience maybe that something is funny. But when Tucker does it,
Speaker 3: it throws me off every time, And there's got to
Speaker 3: be something to that. There has to be some sort
Speaker 3: of power in the way that that communicates to whoever
Speaker 3: he's talking to or the listener.
Speaker 2: He always laughing in like perfect like cobblistic metronome or
Speaker 2: something like that. It's like deep numerology.
Speaker 3: I know, it's just a guy laughing. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3: what does this mean? Yeah, this is a tactic.
Speaker 2: We're talking about authenticity and meanwhile we've got it pulled
Speaker 2: up and able to try to calculate the exact beats
Speaker 2: of a human laugh. Well, dude, you put out and
Speaker 2: obviously you've done a number of music videos. You have
Speaker 2: one earlier in your career, which is about uh, you know,
Speaker 2: white women dogs whatever. Oh yeah, infamous, and then another
Speaker 2: one you just put out about a pack that I think, look, man,
Speaker 2: you couldn't have timed that better. You really dropped that
Speaker 2: at about the perfect time.
Speaker 3: That was insane, right, and I so, I mean, yes,
Speaker 3: this is a song about politicians getting a PAC money
Speaker 3: and kind of framing Israel an apack with all the stereotypes,
Speaker 3: you know, filling up chalices with Molock's blood and using
Speaker 3: sexploitation to blackmaile American politicians. I put that out, yeah,
Speaker 3: and it was like, all right, this is just gonna
Speaker 3: get whatever channel I put it out, instantly taken down,
Speaker 3: and then three days later I think it was the
Speaker 3: Thomas Massey election that he greatly lost by because thirty
Speaker 3: million dollars were funded against him, I think mostly through
Speaker 3: Israel lobbies and Apak then claimed, this is what happens.
Speaker 3: You know, if you side with us, we will get
Speaker 3: you to win, no matter how unknown of a politician
Speaker 3: you are. I went to bed, woke up, and then
Speaker 3: the video had one to two million views the next day.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was perfect timing, but not intentional because
Speaker 3: I was not paying attention to that election.
Speaker 2: To be fair, Rusty, if you were gonna make a
Speaker 2: bet on they're gonna do something, you could pretty much
Speaker 2: pick any time, and within the week or so there'd
Speaker 2: be at least one relevant national news story. Right, right,
Speaker 2: I was in some way related, So.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that. Right, there is some evergreen nature
Speaker 3: to the subject matter. Unless that goes away anytime soon,
Speaker 3: people are still gonna be talking about APEC. I'm just
Speaker 3: waiting for someone to put a bag over my head
Speaker 3: and bring me to some black ops site for fucking
Speaker 3: with their money.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, much like Thomas Massew losing it would
Speaker 2: it would really suck if you got like black bagged
Speaker 2: and shot, But it wouldn't exactly prove you wrong, is
Speaker 2: all I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Sure, so as I'm listening on my fourth day straight
Speaker 3: to Tucker Carlson laughing on repeat bubbing Waterboard, I'll say, well,
Speaker 3: at least I was right. At least I can say
Speaker 3: I I didn't make that song in poor faith.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, like looks, as an artist, you can
Speaker 2: only hope for certain things and to be killed because
Speaker 2: you're right. Like, look, don't get me wrong, it's not
Speaker 2: exactly like retiring rich, but like you know, there there
Speaker 2: were worse ways for artists to kind of you know,
Speaker 2: exit the scene. If you see what I'm saying, right, can.
Speaker 3: You name one being tortured to death versus what falling
Speaker 3: into obscurity?
Speaker 2: I can't, but it'd be cooler. Like I don't know,
Speaker 2: like John Denver died in an airplane, But how much
Speaker 2: cooler would it have be if? I don't know? Did
Speaker 2: John Denver say anything nasty about people? I guess Western Virginia.
Speaker 2: There's that big if like some random hillbillies like tied
Speaker 2: him to a radiator and beat him to death. I'm
Speaker 2: realizing I'm way over in my head. I don't know
Speaker 2: that much about John Denver, and I don't know why
Speaker 2: he came to mind. Did they quote unquote controversial musician.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Is he controversial though the West very
Speaker 3: much in favor of West Virginia. I think he got
Speaker 3: arrested before or his license revoked because he was drinking
Speaker 3: and flying. I could be very wrong about that, but
Speaker 3: he got it back and then crashed his plane.
Speaker 2: All right, All right, Okay, So point is, there aren't
Speaker 2: a lot of artists who have achieved that honor, but
Speaker 2: it'd be cool if you. I mean not for you personally,
Speaker 2: but like as an artistic achievement. I feel like that's
Speaker 2: some sort of justification. But dude, we were talking before
Speaker 2: we went live about this kind of weird dynamic where
Speaker 2: there's this kind of massive decentralization. We mentioned it earlier, right,
Speaker 2: the ability to produce, But with it there's this kind
Speaker 2: of bizarre question of like who owns anything. Like, for instance,
Speaker 2: in my bizarre technically creative project, like I used a
Speaker 2: royalty free bumper on the front and end that I like,
Speaker 2: you know, threw in, I edited, you know, added some effects,
Speaker 2: added some extra audio, and I didn't realize that I
Speaker 2: fell for one of the classic blunders, which is royalty free,
Speaker 2: which means someone actually owns the royalties and so all
Speaker 2: of the money for the first like two hundred episodes
Speaker 2: of this show. Don't go watch my old episodes because
Speaker 2: they don't go to me anymore. They go to like
Speaker 2: some holding company out of Hong Kong I'm.
Speaker 3: Not familiar with. They said, oh, yeah free, and it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah yea, yeah exactly. Yeah. So what they did is
Speaker 2: they basically put out a they put something out is
Speaker 2: royalty free so that people use it in their videos
Speaker 2: or whatever. They remix it, and then they enforced the
Speaker 2: copyright through YouTube or whatever, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: anything that uses that going forward. So like for those wondering,
Speaker 2: I had an original intro song that, to be fair,
Speaker 2: if I like went to court, would meet the standards
Speaker 2: of you know, transformative use. Like I changed it, added
Speaker 2: a bunch of stuff, but whatever holding company gets the royalties.
Speaker 2: And I don't bring that up to complain about it.
Speaker 2: It's been years. I'm not upset about it. But to say,
Speaker 2: like with that democratization of production comes this weird question
Speaker 2: of who owns it, Like you were talking about Spotify
Speaker 2: for example or earlier, right, and they're crazy requirements for
Speaker 2: who owned stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so we're in a weird world now.
Speaker 3: And maybe it was always kind of like this, but
Speaker 3: I would say probably in the past ten years, intellectual
Speaker 3: property is just going away out of brute force. If
Speaker 3: you have content an Instagram reel or something, or a
Speaker 3: video you put out on YouTube and someone wants to
Speaker 3: take it and upload it onto TikTok and try to
Speaker 3: make money off of it, yeah, you could go way
Speaker 3: out of your way and try to find every single
Speaker 3: person who's reusing your content and have it taken down.
Speaker 3: That's a shitload of work. And they have some systems
Speaker 3: in place on YouTube. It's like content ID that kind
Speaker 3: of this might be obsolete now with AI, but it'll
Speaker 3: scan for songs, so it scans audio and it can
Speaker 3: kind of tell if a sample is used in a song.
Speaker 3: I guess I grew up with the understanding that you
Speaker 3: were allowed to use a certain amount of a piece
Speaker 3: of intellectual property before you're breaking some sort of copyright law,
Speaker 3: like five seconds of a song sample. Wasn't this like
Speaker 3: a whole debate that Public Enemy had back.
Speaker 2: In yeah, like thirty years ago, yeah.
Speaker 3: Eight three h three, They had a whole big lawsuit
Speaker 3: about using other people's video clips in your videos, and
Speaker 3: that seemed like that was the standard for a while.
Speaker 3: If you wanted to make a YouTube video and you
Speaker 3: were talking about a specific video game or something, you
Speaker 3: could show a few seconds of gameplay as long as
Speaker 3: it's transformative and you're not taking views away from them.
Speaker 3: But it seems like they just backtracked on that completely
Speaker 3: and now they'll these companies can just claim anything that
Speaker 3: they say uses their intellectual property, and now you're in
Speaker 3: a direct dispute with them, and YouTube's like all right,
Speaker 3: hands free, y'all will have to work this out in court.
Speaker 3: So you have a lot of scammers claiming I don't know.
Speaker 3: They'll claim videos or songs and say you used some
Speaker 3: sound of mine. I've had songs. I've had songs claimed
Speaker 3: by Universal Music Group because another band that was signed
Speaker 3: to them used a sample from a public domain song
Speaker 3: that I also used the sample from. And so they're
Speaker 3: trying to claim this public domain sample and say, well,
Speaker 3: because it was used in a song that's signed under us,
Speaker 3: now you're breaking our copyright. Okay, I'm getting a little
Speaker 3: lost there, but I tend to do that, so pardon
Speaker 3: me if I you might have to wrangle me back in.
Speaker 3: But why I think copyright is going away is just
Speaker 3: because too many people are breaking copyright. And now you
Speaker 3: have something like open ai, which is openly taking everyone's
Speaker 3: copyrighted material, everyone's intellectual property, and using that as their
Speaker 3: product to sell back to anyone who wants to. I
Speaker 3: don't know, create an image in the style of hr Geiger,
Speaker 3: or create a song that sounds like John Denver. They're
Speaker 3: using the train system from the content of John Denver,
Speaker 3: or all the various meme pages that they might just
Speaker 3: be bots or Indians or whoever, and they'll steal any
Speaker 3: image that you might create an image, post it on
Speaker 3: Reddit or post it on x and then someone just
Speaker 3: snags it from there and posts it on their meme page. Well,
Speaker 3: what are you gonna do. You can't really sue all
Speaker 3: these people. There's too many people to sue. It's too
Speaker 3: financially in viable to even fight it. So I feel
Speaker 3: like intellectual property is just going away out of the
Speaker 3: changing of technology, and a lot of people would even
Speaker 3: argue that there's never should have been intellectual property in
Speaker 3: the first place, at least when it comes to something
Speaker 3: like music. You know, how can you copyright how much
Speaker 3: of a song? Can you copyright a chord progression, a
Speaker 3: vocal melody, the instruments used, If you've made a specific
Speaker 3: sound using someone else as a equipment such as pedals
Speaker 3: or software that makes sense, noises on logic or pro
Speaker 3: tools or whatever program, do you own that? How can
Speaker 3: you own it? And then to what degree are you
Speaker 3: allowed to own, say, a piece of music.
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's a really interesting thing because like, look,
Speaker 2: I've been on the Internet for a long time, but
Speaker 2: as a you know, anything more than a lurker kind
Speaker 2: of firmly after the Internet started to shut down, because
Speaker 2: you had this sort of breakpoint where for a long
Speaker 2: time the Internet felt like an exclusive thing where it
Speaker 2: was it was still big, but it wasn't like your
Speaker 2: grandma was using the Internet. And then in a very quick,
Speaker 2: just couple of years, it felt like really twenty twelve
Speaker 2: to twenty sixteen, there's a big acceleration where all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, like everyone is here now. And with that
Speaker 2: came this huge commercialization. Like I think about this, like
Speaker 2: I have a bunch of weird interests and like you know,
Speaker 2: old cars and guns and things like that. And when
Speaker 2: it was first, you know, when I was first looking
Speaker 2: for answers, it was all forum based, right. It was
Speaker 2: like kind of these hyper specific websites that weren't really businesses.
Speaker 2: It was like some guy who had a special interest, right,
Speaker 2: it was like a message board. And then all of
Speaker 2: that move to places like Facebook and Reddit, and there
Speaker 2: was certainly something lost there where they're awful to search.
Speaker 2: There's no real kind of reputation system in the same way.
Speaker 2: But with that that huge centralization a lot more people
Speaker 2: in a lot fewer places. Then came all the like
Speaker 2: the rules and like there were dozens of guys who
Speaker 2: were kind of pre Internet or early Internet, and then
Speaker 2: when that switch came over, they got blown up. Like
Speaker 2: you think of a guy like Monkey Jones right right,
Speaker 2: who was kind of like not early YouTube in the
Speaker 2: sense that he was around in like oh eight he
Speaker 2: may well have been, but like he embodied that spirit
Speaker 2: right to say anything, do anything, no one cares. We're
Speaker 2: all here and we know what to expect, yeah, versus
Speaker 2: like this is a corporate product. And with that corporate product,
Speaker 2: it sort of feels like the whole thing is shifting
Speaker 2: to like this weird everything is a rental, Like, oh
Speaker 2: use that sound, you have to rent the right to it.
Speaker 2: Oh you use this service, you have to rent the
Speaker 2: right to it. It's this weird like thousand different points
Speaker 2: of like a little bit of drag. And then you
Speaker 2: like look at your credit card statement and you're like,
Speaker 2: how am I paying this much in you know whatever,
Speaker 2: random services? And like you compare that to andy. Look,
Speaker 2: maybe this is rose colored glasses. Maybe I was just
Speaker 2: fourteen and having a blast whatever, But it felt like
Speaker 2: before it was sort of the wild West, and now
Speaker 2: it's very much like the Internet is locked down and
Speaker 2: like we were even talking about like production value, Like
Speaker 2: you think of something like podcasting, like the early podcasters.
Speaker 2: You know, obviously you have Rogan who is an early adopter,
Speaker 2: but even I think of guys like you know, Dan
Speaker 2: car who did the History shows. Yeah, it's like it's
Speaker 2: lo fi, right, it's just radio on it's pirate radio
Speaker 2: on the Internet. Right. And now you go to like
Speaker 2: the top charts and it's like celebrities you've kind of
Speaker 2: heard of that are connected to like some massive label
Speaker 2: like Dax Shephard, who was in like a couple movies
Speaker 2: twenty years ago, is apparently one of the most popular
Speaker 2: podcasters in the world. I'm signed to like a paramount
Speaker 2: connected label, you know, when you're like, what what happened?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it seems really funnier than Tim Dillon or something.
Speaker 3: Or is it just because they can push it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they're trying to bring in celebrity culture because they know
Speaker 3: celebrity cultures dying because of the Internet, all right, which I.
Speaker 2: Mean, dude, that's an interesting thing where it's like celebrities
Speaker 2: don't work when you actually know that they're real people.
Speaker 2: Like once you have like any random celebrity just on Twitter,
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, you're you're a moron, Like, you're not cool.
Speaker 3: Sorry, it had to be twenty twenty. I mean, I
Speaker 3: know a lot of people kind of point their fingers
Speaker 3: at different specific events, but the one that I think
Speaker 3: of the most was the gal Gado Imagine.
Speaker 2: Oh dude, that's exactly what I was going to bring up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so it's like that just pulled the blinders
Speaker 3: off anyone's eyes. It was already fading already. People were like,
Speaker 3: who the fuck are these people? You know, I'm more
Speaker 3: focused on who the next big Internet influencer is. They're
Speaker 3: more engaging than Matt Damon, because you know, these are
Speaker 3: younger generations of people who are growing up into media,
Speaker 3: and Hollywood is losing their control by like forcing whatever
Speaker 3: they say is the next big celebrity. And so when
Speaker 3: you saw the Imagine video, the gal Gadot one that
Speaker 3: had all these celebrities doing this very cringe singing montage,
Speaker 3: everyone twisted their face in secondhand, third hand embarrassment and disgust.
Speaker 3: It was like, wait, yeah, these people are not cool.
Speaker 3: They aren't cool at all, and they're not really worth
Speaker 3: looking up to. They're just actors or whatever. They're they're entertainers.
Speaker 2: Well, dude, that actually that brings up a really interesting point.
Speaker 2: I'll loop it back to music because I think this
Speaker 2: is another interesting dynamic where like the death of the
Speaker 2: death of radio, the death of like centralized distribution, where
Speaker 2: everyone has their own algorithm like feeding them what the
Speaker 2: machine thinks you want to listen to. It's created this
Speaker 2: really interesting dynamic where every year a smaller and smaller
Speaker 2: percentage of music listened to is new. So more and
Speaker 2: more people are listening to old music because one, it's
Speaker 2: like you don't have the radio DJ phenomenon of like,
Speaker 2: you know, we got a new disk in right, here's
Speaker 2: the new top thing. But also it's like there's really
Speaker 2: no shared culture around music anymore.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I had a really interesting conversation with my grandmother, who
Speaker 2: is like core baby boomer born in nineteen fifty right,
Speaker 2: like went through that whole arc, and she asked my
Speaker 2: wife and I were sitting down, She's like, hey, like,
Speaker 2: what music do people your age listen to? Which, when
Speaker 2: you think about it, is a completely reasonable question for
Speaker 2: someone who lived through you know, the fifties through now,
Speaker 2: that question makes a ton of sense. But like Russie,
Speaker 2: if I asked you that question, like what music do
Speaker 2: people your age listen to? It's like, I don't know, because.
Speaker 3: It's like, am I old? Am I so old now
Speaker 3: that I'm out of touch and I don't want the
Speaker 3: kids are listening to? Or is it that there are
Speaker 3: five million new bands and it's just creating a haze
Speaker 3: of noise in mass competition? So you either have the
Speaker 3: superstars like Travis Scott or Taylor Swift or something like that, who.
Speaker 2: Are to that point, I don't know anything. You're old.
Speaker 2: They've been around for a long time. There are weirdly
Speaker 2: stagnant compared to previous decades.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, what was it? Yeah, the top the billboard
Speaker 3: five hundred. I think someone was looking at it at
Speaker 3: one point and it was however many of the top
Speaker 3: ten were just all between three artists. Yeah, because I
Speaker 3: mean that's what they used to do in music. Back
Speaker 3: in the sixties and seventies. There was probably a ton
Speaker 3: of bands that you'll never have heard of, that maybe
Speaker 3: were playing on the radio, but they didn't stand the
Speaker 3: test of time. They weren't consolidated and filtered out where
Speaker 3: you know, as a decade goes on and you still
Speaker 3: remember that one song, and then twenty years later you
Speaker 3: still remember that song. So that means it's permeated through
Speaker 3: all this miasthma, if that's even the correct word. Someone
Speaker 3: like Kanye can pierce through. But I maybe that's why
Speaker 3: people are listening to older music because it's proven and
Speaker 3: if it's lasted this long, it has enough value.
Speaker 2: Well, I dude, I I think another big part of
Speaker 2: it is, like, you know, I talk to people in
Speaker 2: like my parents' generation, like the MTV generation, and like
Speaker 2: if I ask them just randomly, like, hey, what song
Speaker 2: were you listening to in the summer of ninety four whatever?
Speaker 2: Just pick it off the top of your head, like
Speaker 2: they have an answer, right, And then like I ask
Speaker 2: like two or three other people who you know, okay,
Speaker 2: maybe they lived like one hundred miles away, asked in
Speaker 2: that same answer or that same question, then this, if
Speaker 2: not the same answer, a similar one. It's from that
Speaker 2: kind of list of top songs. Whereas now, like if
Speaker 2: you ask me like, hey, what song were you listening
Speaker 2: to in like the summer of your freshman year, it's
Speaker 2: like why have it answer? But that like that answer
Speaker 2: was determined by like the Spotify algorithm, And that's an
Speaker 2: album that came out in like two thousand and four
Speaker 2: that is not related to probably anyone in my social circle.
Speaker 2: Like that decision is made on a different level, and
Speaker 2: like this is always something I think about where it's
Speaker 2: like if you're into one super specific genre, like you're
Speaker 2: the like Bri guy, whatever your genre is, sure you
Speaker 2: have a lot of options, but also your culture like whatever, breakcore, bluegrass,
Speaker 2: whatever your thing is. That's not like how it was
Speaker 2: for like our parents or our grandparents, where it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: those are the kids you sit at their table at
Speaker 2: high school, like the goths, the preps, whatever. That's a
Speaker 2: group that's on the internet now, which is kind of
Speaker 2: a different thing, if you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 2: there's no the regional scene doesn't exist in the same way.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm out over my skis, but you see what
Speaker 2: I'm saying.
Speaker 3: There rest No, it's it seems like that with all ideas,
Speaker 3: there's no cohesion between groups or I don't know just
Speaker 3: how people view the world. Maybe it's good because we're
Speaker 3: not just getting fed what we're supposed to be listening to,
Speaker 3: but it's not like the old days where you could
Speaker 3: burn a CD for someone and I don't know there
Speaker 3: would be songs on there that wait, I'm not gonna right,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna confuse myself everyone. There's no top charts where
Speaker 3: everyone knew the new music video coming out. Oh the
Speaker 3: Beastie Boys came out with a new album. Doctor Dre
Speaker 3: just came out with something, and everyone's talking about that
Speaker 3: one thing. Now, you could have like a massive artist,
Speaker 3: say someone like who's.
Speaker 2: That zesty Puerto Ricans at the super Bowl a while back?
Speaker 3: Bad Bunny.
Speaker 2: Uh yeahyeah him, We'll go with him. He's a good example,
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 3: So I guess, I guess like Kendrick Lamar, that was
Speaker 3: an example where everyone kind of heard about this artist.
Speaker 3: But right, you have these algorithms that are now picking
Speaker 3: for you what they think you want to listen to.
Speaker 3: I personally don't listen to music, so I'm also a
Speaker 3: little bit out of my skis there when it comes
Speaker 3: to what is popular music now. But what I can
Speaker 3: say is I see the reactions from younger people and
Speaker 3: they'll be uh god, I cannot remember his fucking name.
Speaker 3: This guy had. It was like the song of the
Speaker 3: He had two songs that came out and they were massive.
Speaker 3: They were all over TikTok as kind of a hip hoppy,
Speaker 3: low fi sound. But five months after that and these
Speaker 3: songs were all over the place. I don't know how
Speaker 3: many collective millions and millions of views, probably billions of plays,
Speaker 3: and people instantly will go, oh, yeah, this guy's washed up.
Speaker 3: He hasn't had a hit since last you know fall.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, how many fucking massive hits are you
Speaker 3: supposed to have? You know this consumer media where things
Speaker 3: just kind of go into your body and then you
Speaker 3: instantly expel it, you get used to it. It's it's
Speaker 3: already old hat, it's overplayed. It makes an impossible challenge
Speaker 3: for i'd say the average artists to really stand out
Speaker 3: at all. And if you do, you got to really
Speaker 3: figure out how to fight for that, or else you're
Speaker 3: gonna be a has been instantly two weeks later, like oh,
Speaker 3: when's your new album? You came out with one three
Speaker 3: months ago, when's the next one, or else you're done
Speaker 3: for You're forgotten.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well dude, it's it's one of those things that
Speaker 2: like and maybe the kind of like mass music culture
Speaker 2: we see and like our parents and grandparents generation, maybe
Speaker 2: that's just weird, Like that's the like blip on the radar,
Speaker 2: and this is just how people have always been. But
Speaker 2: like I think about this a lot because I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm primarily like a literature fag. That's like my thing.
Speaker 2: It's embarrassing whatever, But like I have this kind of
Speaker 2: thought that bounces around in my head where I'm like,
Speaker 2: if if you really drill down to it over the
Speaker 2: last thousand years, the like actual real literacy rate, like
Speaker 2: people who actually know how, like can really read, not
Speaker 2: just like a grocery list or whatever. Sure, there's part
Speaker 2: of my brain that's like I think that's basically the
Speaker 2: same throughout history, you know, and like you have a
Speaker 2: there's a certain level of like Okay, there's a there's
Speaker 2: there's a mass appreciation, but that is basically something that
Speaker 2: can be taken over by a machine. You know. Like
Speaker 2: what's the difference between like an AI generated novel and
Speaker 2: like the tenth Tom Clancy ghost written novel twenty years
Speaker 2: after he's dead, right, you know, like that's kind of
Speaker 2: the same thing versus and like you could take the
Speaker 2: page turner to be like whatever that is for art
Speaker 2: whatever art form, like the mass popular version of it,
Speaker 2: like maybe the percentage of people actually interested in art
Speaker 2: has always been very, very small throughout time. I don't
Speaker 2: know any proof for this, but it's something that I
Speaker 2: think about, like just when I'm like laying up the
Speaker 2: ceiling at night, if you see what I'm getting.
Speaker 3: At, Yeah, I do think that I would say for
Speaker 3: the average I'm not gonna say normy because I don't
Speaker 3: want to be snobbish about you know who consumes.
Speaker 2: What Russie, I appreciate you not being a snob after
Speaker 2: one of the most elitist things. I think it's possible to.
Speaker 3: Say, well, it's like with music. I fear whenever you
Speaker 3: hear AI music, which is taking over Spotify for instance.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the percentage is right now, but
Speaker 3: it's getting up to like fucking seventy five percent of
Speaker 3: music on Spotify is AI generated. And as the musician,
Speaker 3: I think a lot of musicians would agree that. They say, like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is slop, this is it's not human, it doesn't
Speaker 3: touch on the human spirit. But there's plenty of people
Speaker 3: who really only listen to music because it fills their
Speaker 3: head with noise and maybe helps them just get through
Speaker 3: their day or then go oh, I like this melody.
Speaker 3: They're not really trying to connect with it on a
Speaker 3: super deep level. It's just filler and that's all they
Speaker 3: need is filler. And so when you take that into
Speaker 3: something like say a video or just a short form
Speaker 3: video that's kind of expressing a quick idea with a
Speaker 3: robot AI voice saying, oh, did you know that the
Speaker 3: biggest hole in the world was dug andrushah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter if that was written by a script
Speaker 3: or uses not a real person. It's just there to
Speaker 3: fill time. And so I don't know, the value of
Speaker 3: the arts are definitely going away. I mean, think about paintings.
Speaker 3: Think about how big paintings were in the early nineteen
Speaker 3: hundreds where you had all these painters and they would
Speaker 3: people would marvel over fucking I don't know, I can't
Speaker 3: think of any van Go or something like that.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, dude, even van Go. That's an interesting comparison, right,
Speaker 2: because if we're talking about this kind of and look
Speaker 2: like I realized, like the epunk, the in cell corese stuff,
Speaker 2: it's like hyper niche. But it will take that as
Speaker 2: an example where it's like, oh, the high level production
Speaker 2: value has gotten too cheap and gotten too easy. So
Speaker 2: now we're going to return to something messier or authentic.
Speaker 2: You could look at the impressionists as exactly the same thing,
Speaker 2: like we have gotten technology that can make a perfect replica,
Speaker 2: and now we're gonna move to Oh, painting is about expression.
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to look like a perfect field of
Speaker 2: sunflowers anymore. Now it's my expression. Now it's rougher, Now
Speaker 2: it's more human. But do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Like there's a parallel there. But sorry I interrupted you.
Speaker 3: Well, no, I mean that's that's exactly it is. I mean,
Speaker 3: humans are I know you said you didn't want to
Speaker 3: talk about AI, but for some reason to tie into it.
Speaker 2: Look, this is a show where my plan was, Hey, Rusty,
Speaker 2: what are you doing on Tuesday evening? So I talk
Speaker 2: about whatever you want?
Speaker 3: Well, right, So if everyone, if everything's being pushed in
Speaker 3: mass and having to compete to have a certain quality
Speaker 3: or sound, a specific sound or production style, Yeah, people
Speaker 3: are always going to go for what seems the most authentic,
Speaker 3: and that's gonna be the best reflection of the human spirit. Uh,
Speaker 3: I don't wait, what was the point there?
Speaker 2: So we're we're talking about I think you were making
Speaker 2: the point that basically, like painting went from being the
Speaker 2: kind of pinnacle art forum to this kind of secondary Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Sorry, no one can even name a painter.
Speaker 2: Who d he's so fake like this is. And look,
Speaker 2: I say, this is someone who is not an artist
Speaker 2: but enjoys hanging out with them. There are few things
Speaker 2: that bother me more than the kind of like canned,
Speaker 2: prepackaged rebellion of Banksy where he gets to like put
Speaker 2: on the jacket of being like counterculture. Yeah, and like
Speaker 2: I'm against the system, and he is so completely and
Speaker 2: totally in line with the values of the system he
Speaker 2: lives in, but he gets to like play pretend as
Speaker 2: like an edgy counterculture artist.
Speaker 3: Do you think he'll start that way? Or they got
Speaker 3: him because they knew that he could be. He had
Speaker 3: cultural appeal and pull, and so they either game a
Speaker 3: lot of money or they say you got to work
Speaker 3: for us.
Speaker 2: Well, dude, here's a great example you mentioned imagine by
Speaker 2: John Lennon, right right, Like John Lennon like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: the peace movement. I'm gonna lay in bed, that's my
Speaker 2: rebellion against the system. But like, if you really drill
Speaker 2: down to what he actually said, like if you not
Speaker 2: to go full like ten foil hout Schitzo. But look, dude,
Speaker 2: we're forty minutes into this, so like might as well
Speaker 2: like if you really drill down to like the message
Speaker 2: of imagine right, like no culture, no religion, no race,
Speaker 2: just like this gray, unindividuated gup of people. Yeah, how
Speaker 2: different is that than they like like full on globalists,
Speaker 2: Like it's basically the same thing, and so like with
Speaker 2: a lot of these people, I kind of feel like
Speaker 2: I'm not going to pretend that, like whatever. The nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty two version of George Soros sat down with uh
Speaker 2: with John Lennon was like, hey, man, can you stop
Speaker 2: beating your wife long enough for this conversation and then
Speaker 2: was like, hey, if you promote these values, I'll make
Speaker 2: you rich and then I don't know.
Speaker 3: Anything about the war or else we're going to kill you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think it was like that, but I
Speaker 2: do one hundred percent think that, like certain ideas are amplified,
Speaker 2: Like look, dude, like you look at how like certain
Speaker 2: artistic movements in Europe were promoted post World War Two
Speaker 2: as basically a counter to the Soviet Union. You know,
Speaker 2: like contra like socialist realism and all that stuff, and
Speaker 2: you're like, Okay, you don't have to go full tenfoil hat.
Speaker 2: Everything is a ploy. But like you think about how
Speaker 2: many of these people have quote unquote legitimacy, Like they
Speaker 2: get the honorary degrees, they get the like government grants,
Speaker 2: they get to like be rich artists and never have
Speaker 2: to actually deal with the consequences of being a creative
Speaker 2: on their own. And you're like, oh, dude, you're a pet,
Speaker 2: Like you're kept in a cage. Whether you know it
Speaker 2: or not. I don't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were talking about that on on this other
Speaker 3: podcast that I do recently, like the soft influence that
Speaker 3: right the artist might not know it at all, but yeah,
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you get this huge deal and
Speaker 3: you go, oh shit, I guess what I'm doing must
Speaker 3: really appeal to, right, the whatever narrative that they're trying
Speaker 3: to present or put out as a whole, So you know,
Speaker 3: if save its music and the thing that everyone knows
Speaker 3: now but seemed like it just kind of popped up
Speaker 3: was like how the rap industry was controlled by had
Speaker 3: ties to like private prisons, and so by propping up
Speaker 3: gangster rap music and encouraging young, rambunctious youths to do
Speaker 3: the same crimes of the people that they were listening to,
Speaker 3: say like NWA or whatever. That could imprison more people,
Speaker 3: and then you can make money on the private prison
Speaker 3: side by propping up music that would encourage people to
Speaker 3: can make crimes. For instance, man, oh, so what the
Speaker 3: fuck is Banksy doing? Dan? Like, what would be the goal?
Speaker 3: Just of nonsense specific and I think.
Speaker 2: What it is is like, did you see that did
Speaker 2: you see that clip of uh, you know Stephen Colbert?
Speaker 2: You know he's got kicked off the air, and he's like,
Speaker 2: I'll show it to you network. I'll use this clip
Speaker 2: from pe Nuts, so you'll have to deal with those rights, okay,
Speaker 2: And then it turns out that his oh the point
Speaker 2: is it's Stephen Colbert is a massive faggot and was yeah,
Speaker 2: got you know, his show got canceled. So he's like,
Speaker 2: I'll stick it to the network by playing a clip
Speaker 2: from Peanuts and they'll have to deal with the rights
Speaker 2: consequences of that. And then of course it's the Internet
Speaker 2: and they're like, no paramount owns his show and they
Speaker 2: owned pe Nuts, Like it doesn't it doesn't do anything,
Speaker 2: but it's you get to like have that rush of like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm showing it to the man. Yeah, I'm fighting power. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like uh and and with Banksy like that, dude's made
Speaker 2: a ton of money and he's basically selling whether he
Speaker 2: knows it or not, this like sort of synthetic rebellion
Speaker 2: where it's like all the images, all of the different
Speaker 2: like it's i mean, it's graffiti, right, it's like inherently
Speaker 2: youthful and rebellious. But like, dude, at the point where
Speaker 2: were getting fifty million dollars for your paintings, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: you're not counterculture, like.
Speaker 3: Dude, like unlike him, could like what could they do?
Speaker 3: Should they just stop making things at all? And say,
Speaker 3: all right, there's there's nothing I can make in this
Speaker 3: genre that won't just be hack.
Speaker 2: Hmmm. I mean, you know, maybe banks he walks out
Speaker 2: in front of a train and at least he's artistically consistent.
Speaker 2: I'm for anyone reviewing this, I'm not Actually that was
Speaker 2: a joke. That is wrong and bad. But Banksy, you
Speaker 2: should walk out into traffic in all seriousness, man, in
Speaker 2: all seriousness, though, man, Like I think it's this weird thing, uh,
Speaker 2: and and not to go to like chin scratching, you know,
Speaker 2: like pseudo intellectual about it, but like that is kind
Speaker 2: of one of the weird things about like the empire
Speaker 2: post World War Two. And look, dude, you could look
Speaker 2: at Israel. It's the same thing expressed differently, but it's
Speaker 2: like we simultaneously we right, they have to be the rebel,
Speaker 2: right like standing up to authority, you know, we're like
Speaker 2: overturning the system. And then also, oh wait, we're actually
Speaker 2: in charge. So like you think of like what is
Speaker 2: the repeated story over and over again for the last
Speaker 2: eighty years. It's like basically World War Two, where it's like, well,
Speaker 2: we're the plucky rebellion. We stood up to evil, and
Speaker 2: that's why we get to be in charge of the world.
Speaker 2: Like Star Wars is a great example where it's like
Speaker 2: the story of Star Wars is exactly that, right, it's
Speaker 2: the plucky rebellion. We stood up to the ultimate evil
Speaker 2: and that's why we're allowed to be in charge. And
Speaker 2: like I look at all of that kind of like
Speaker 2: canned rebellion art work music like dude, like uh, Rage
Speaker 2: against the Machine in Green Day are a great example
Speaker 2: of this. As well that like aesthetic of rebellion and
Speaker 2: like this is so stupid. But I always think about
Speaker 2: this or that it's some like stupid political figure from
Speaker 2: like twenty years ago, Paul Ryant or I think he
Speaker 2: was like the Speaker of the House or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yes it was.
Speaker 2: And I don't know why I'm the I was a
Speaker 2: nerd as a kid, and some I'm the sort of
Speaker 2: guy who read this, But I remember reading an interview
Speaker 2: where he was saying what his favorite band was, and
Speaker 2: he said that his favorite band was Rage against the Machine.
Speaker 2: And I just remember, even at like eleven, thinking like, what, dude.
Speaker 3: That's you like machine right?
Speaker 2: Still you're like playing pretend as this like rebel, you know.
Speaker 2: And like Banksy's another example where it's like I think
Speaker 2: he's actually a professor. I can't remember he got unmasked recently,
Speaker 2: Like he basically has like some government job. He's gotten
Speaker 2: millions of dollars in grants and his like if you
Speaker 2: look at the message of what he's producing, it's one
Speaker 2: hundred percent in line with the government. But like, for
Speaker 2: whatever reason, people Banksy whatever like to play like they're
Speaker 2: speaking truth to power.
Speaker 3: I mean, oh, for sure, exactly. They get people's aggression
Speaker 3: instead of I mean, this is kind of cliche, but
Speaker 3: instead of being able to focus everyone's aggressions in oppositions
Speaker 3: to whatever their qualms with the system are and directed
Speaker 3: towards where they need to direct it, they can kind
Speaker 3: of look at someone else and say, oh, that's my leader,
Speaker 3: or that's that guy's doing it for me, uh and
Speaker 3: I support him, and that person happens to be say
Speaker 3: a banksy and banks he's just doing controlled opposition for
Speaker 3: the government or just this fake neutral opposition. Uh. So
Speaker 3: it gets everyone's aggressions out because they think it's like
Speaker 3: Luigi Mangioni m to me, that story is fucking insane
Speaker 3: and does not seem legitimate to any degree. But you know,
Speaker 3: the the youth will hoist like hoist him up as yeah,
Speaker 3: he's the Robin Hood character, He's the hero. We need
Speaker 3: more Luigi Mangioni's Uh but it's like, all right, isn't
Speaker 3: this guy just someone who killed a fucking CEO and
Speaker 3: possibly to cover up financial crimes. That's what I always heard.
Speaker 3: I don't know not to get on the conspiracy of
Speaker 3: Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 2: But Rusty I like that this is the point where
Speaker 2: you're like, hey, I don't want to say anything too crazy,
Speaker 2: too out of pocket.
Speaker 3: Right if I shot a CEO, I wouldn't be found
Speaker 3: days later with a backpack containing a manifesto and a
Speaker 3: gun and wearing the exact same outfit that I was
Speaker 3: seeing on camera with. To me, that just seems a
Speaker 3: little weird. But you know, uh, but right, people can
Speaker 3: point at him and say, yeah, there are people out
Speaker 3: there doing the fight. Therefore it's not really necessary for
Speaker 3: me as the individual to do it myself. I don't know,
Speaker 3: it's outsourcing rebellion. We'll just directing it.
Speaker 2: This is a great book by Ted Kaczinski, and it's
Speaker 2: one of the ones he wrote in Supermax. It's like
Speaker 2: sixty pages, and since he wrote it from Supermax, you
Speaker 2: kind of have to like read between the lines because
Speaker 2: you know, he can't exactly say what he means. But
Speaker 2: he has this book called The System's Greatest Trick, where
Speaker 2: he talks about exactly this, where he's basically talking about
Speaker 2: how like they're all these different things which exist as
Speaker 2: sort of like a pressure release valve so to keep
Speaker 2: people like basically on the plantation, to keep them docile.
Speaker 2: And so he wrote this, I mean after he went
Speaker 2: to prison, so like I think this was like six
Speaker 2: or eight or whatever. But he's he's writing to like
Speaker 2: shitlib like basically like anarco eco terrorist types, right, who
Speaker 2: are the kind of people that sent him letters in prison?
Speaker 2: And he's talking about these sort of like fake forms
Speaker 2: of rebellion. So he's talking about stuff like racial equality
Speaker 2: in the corporate.
Speaker 3: World, and he's like, look, elm riots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was before that, and he's basically saying,
Speaker 2: he's like, look, so many of things exist, and what
Speaker 2: the system will do is present to you an opportunity
Speaker 2: for rebellion. And what that rebellion does, all it does
Speaker 2: is reform the system, make it better, make it a
Speaker 2: more efficient predator. So your instinct to say, like I
Speaker 2: don't like this, make this go away, I don't want
Speaker 2: to do this gets turned back into making the algorithm better, right,
Speaker 2: making the algorithm whatever the system is more tuned to
Speaker 2: what it's designed to. And it's a great book. Like
Speaker 2: it's not long, I guessid it's like sixty pages, but
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where it's like I remember
Speaker 2: reading it and it just kind of sitting down at
Speaker 2: me and like ugh, shit, he's got me, you know.
Speaker 3: Well sure, I mean people they point towards the French
Speaker 3: Revolution without reading the history of it in the sense
Speaker 3: that you know, every shore they went into Forsi and
Speaker 3: they made their demands to the king and then later
Speaker 3: beheaded him and Marie Antoinette. But then the initial rebellions
Speaker 3: got overturned by new rebellions, and then new people came
Speaker 3: in there, and they had so many different iterations of
Speaker 3: their government constantly getting overthrown, all through Napoleon. And what
Speaker 3: did it end? It just hardened itself. It figured out
Speaker 3: what are the mistakes that we made before? How did
Speaker 3: we allow the people to have this much power so
Speaker 3: that the people that take over afterwards can fix those mistakes?
Speaker 3: And so it oftentimes seems like these rebellions, say like
Speaker 3: the BLM riots were done intentionally, and they were promoted
Speaker 3: intentionally not only as a pressure relief valve, but to
Speaker 3: see how people were moving and to really gauge what
Speaker 3: they're going to do. Why release why release the these
Speaker 3: Epstein files that are making all these claims of satanic
Speaker 3: pedophiles and saying, yep, they pretty much do all exist
Speaker 3: and they run everything. What are you going to do
Speaker 3: about it. It's just seems like a test to see
Speaker 3: how complacent we are or how easily we can be
Speaker 3: distracted from it. And now we have, you know, all
Speaker 3: these AI systems and these learning systems that can process
Speaker 3: all this information and process our behaviors better than any
Speaker 3: human could or a psychologists, and I don't know. I
Speaker 3: mean again, it feels like the fist is closing. They
Speaker 3: might they might've kind of won a little bit. And
Speaker 3: what that would take for them not to win is
Speaker 3: to be unpredictable or to be human, you know, to
Speaker 3: if you're just showing everyone the slop music that's all
Speaker 3: sounds roughly the same because you're basing that off of
Speaker 3: what people previously listen to, these top forty pop hits
Speaker 3: that can only go on for so long until something
Speaker 3: anomalist comes out of it and tears it apart. But
Speaker 3: I don't know how you could predict that well.
Speaker 2: And this is like the thing that I always I
Speaker 2: always do think about this, where it's like there is
Speaker 2: this kind of any system, it almost develops too much
Speaker 2: to do its original purpose anymore, right, it becomes like overgrown,
Speaker 2: and like I kind of think about this with a
Speaker 2: lot of the like, and not to get this like
Speaker 2: too political per se, but like there is a level
Speaker 2: at which it's almost like they buy into their own
Speaker 2: BS enough that it starts to kind of like gum
Speaker 2: up the works. So like I think about this with
Speaker 2: like the kind of like DEI affirmative action stuff where
Speaker 2: it's like when that first came around, it was pretty marginal.
Speaker 2: You know. It's like you'd have your token X guy
Speaker 2: in the office, you know, and I'm like, okay, whatever,
Speaker 2: let's say that is hypothetically like a five percent reduction
Speaker 2: inefficiency whatever. I'm not going to put a number on it,
Speaker 2: but like it's a little bit less than.
Speaker 3: Optimal, right.
Speaker 2: But then like the guys who put that system in
Speaker 2: retire the next group up they didn't get the memo.
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, we actually need to do this, you
Speaker 2: need to do it all the way. Yeah, And so
Speaker 2: that goes, yeah, exactly, that goes from being like a
Speaker 2: five percent reduction in efficiency to like a twenty percent
Speaker 2: like okay, well you're not you're looking at like a
Speaker 2: B average, Like it's not great, but it still works.
Speaker 2: And then those guys retire and now your generation three,
Speaker 2: which is like full speed ahead and nothing works, and
Speaker 2: then you just get this feeling of like, what does
Speaker 2: the system even do anymore? The system that was designed
Speaker 2: to run an office is now become a system that
Speaker 2: enforces whatever or value or whatever. It's like changed and
Speaker 2: doesn't work anymore, and like maybe this is naive, but
Speaker 2: like I do sort of feel like we have like
Speaker 2: two trends at once, which is one this like super
Speaker 2: depressing panopticon of like everything and you will be like
Speaker 2: digitized and turn into a number. And on the other one,
Speaker 2: it seems like the I guess, the like competence of
Speaker 2: the people running the machine is also getting worse at
Speaker 2: the same time, like they're making stupid mistakes and so it's.
Speaker 3: Like you're getting coppy.
Speaker 2: Sure, it feels like those things are going in opposite directions,
Speaker 2: and like when do those lines crash into each other?
Speaker 3: I don't know, no, right, right, I mean, they're disconnected
Speaker 3: from the people so much that I don't think. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't know if they can foresee what
Speaker 3: will happen, or if people can. I don't know. If
Speaker 3: they're just trying to go for a full security state
Speaker 3: where there is no chance to be able to rebel.
Speaker 3: But even that won't work. I mean, like you were saying,
Speaker 3: as the generations go on, whatever the solid plan was
Speaker 3: at the beginning just gets lost and completely manipulated and
Speaker 3: corrupted by small changes here and there, and so the
Speaker 3: strength of those systems just becomes so convoluted and weak. Hmm.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that whatever we fear we're going
Speaker 3: into will just be destroyed by the lack of ability
Speaker 3: to foresee how people are going to push back against
Speaker 3: it or something creative is going to happen.
Speaker 2: Well, dude, Like I think about this a lot, and
Speaker 2: again not to go like full on like religious extreme
Speaker 2: most extremist schitzo, but to kind of be a religious
Speaker 2: extremist schitzo. Like if you think about like the Tower
Speaker 2: of Battle or whatever, like what is that story about.
Speaker 2: It's basically about building a like total world system, like
Speaker 2: a tower that reaches up to heaven. And then it's
Speaker 2: like human nature won't let that work, right, We're too
Speaker 2: selfish and stupid and it all falls apart, and so like,
Speaker 2: all right, maybe I'm wrong, and you know you and
Speaker 2: I will be in like matrix style human batteries in
Speaker 2: five years, in which case, okay, you can make fun
Speaker 2: of me for being wrong. But there is like a
Speaker 2: part of me that I'm like, I don't know if
Speaker 2: people can make that panopticon, Like I just don't know
Speaker 2: if we have it in us, because.
Speaker 3: It doesn't seem like it's in our human nature to have
Speaker 3: one thing. Yeah, it's like the purpose of humanity.
Speaker 2: Well, like you even look at like people talk about
Speaker 2: this with politics all the time. They're like, oh, like
Speaker 2: you know, they'll they'll import you know, eighty billion Indians
Speaker 2: and it will be you know, the Democrats forever, you know,
Speaker 2: whatever your grandpa says. And it's like yeah, yeah, sure
Speaker 2: that would suck. We shouldn't do that. But like there's
Speaker 2: never a real one party state in that way. Like
Speaker 2: you even look at like primaries in California, where it
Speaker 2: is just like that is a blue state no matter what,
Speaker 2: it will never be a Republican state at least for
Speaker 2: the foreseeable future, and it's like no politics still exists.
Speaker 2: But now politics is in a district that like it's
Speaker 2: like this weird race war within the Democratic Party where
Speaker 2: it's like Asians versus Hispanics. Like that's where politics is.
Speaker 2: Like even in your one party state, there's still like tribalism,
Speaker 2: they're still fighting, there's still fracture. And look, I'm not
Speaker 2: saying we should do that. That's a bad idea. I
Speaker 2: don't want to live in like some the equivalent of
Speaker 2: some district in California. It's not my point, but it's
Speaker 2: like humans aren't that good at creating something totalizing in
Speaker 2: that way, which is not the most hopeful message, but
Speaker 2: it's better than nothing.
Speaker 3: Right right our inability for everyone to agree on one
Speaker 3: singular idea, because that destroys the competition. I mean, that's
Speaker 3: like the survival of the fittest of ideas? Where how
Speaker 3: can something improve if everyone already agrees on it? Then
Speaker 3: how why what is the point of innovating if what
Speaker 3: you have is already supposed to be perfect? It's done.
Speaker 3: To innovate means to disagree, and you need to be
Speaker 3: able to you know, how are you going to get
Speaker 3: every single person on board with every possible change? A
Speaker 3: lot of changes are that end up being correct or
Speaker 3: successful or advanced. Humanity came with major pushback, and so
Speaker 3: the only way to move forward or to progress is to,
Speaker 3: you know, fight against the system. And I think we
Speaker 3: inherently know that.
Speaker 2: And honestly, Like that's one of the things that and
Speaker 2: look like I say that I am like a right
Speaker 2: wing guy, and it's like, what does that mean? It's
Speaker 2: like I like being edgy on the internet. I have
Speaker 2: certain values are not compatible with kind of like mass
Speaker 2: market society. But like I'm not really like a conservative
Speaker 2: person just personality wise, like I I don't have that
Speaker 2: whatever that character trait is. But like when I talk
Speaker 2: to a lot of my acquaintances who are millennials, like
Speaker 2: really true in that like perfect age demo, they are
Speaker 2: temperamentally conservative, like they have that like things should be
Speaker 2: going on the way they are. But because of the
Speaker 2: like weird I guess kind of like vagary of politics,
Speaker 2: their conservative personality leads to them being Obama liberals because
Speaker 2: that is the system that they grew up in. And
Speaker 2: so it's this weird thing where it's like in a
Speaker 2: weird way, like the that person conceptualizes themselves as fighting
Speaker 2: against the system, as like, oh, I'm fighting against like
Speaker 2: the family from Dirty Dancing, whatever, the like old racist Amria,
Speaker 2: like whatever their boogeyman is. But they all work at raytheon.
Speaker 2: They all work for like the military industrial complex and
Speaker 2: the reason I say that is like that weird self conception.
Speaker 2: It's like the actual functional politics of it are really
Speaker 2: almost secondary to human nature, like that comes first, like
Speaker 2: that kind of instinct. And so like when we're talking
Speaker 2: about this, like the need for like a bust up,
Speaker 2: it almost feels like there's this pressure building and mounting
Speaker 2: to do something else because whatever is currently happening, whatever
Speaker 2: the current like whatever term politics, value, whatever, is just
Speaker 2: not working. And so like we're talking about authenticity, and
Speaker 2: like one of the things I've noticed because like, look, man,
Speaker 2: I'm like a political loser who talks about my opinions
Speaker 2: on the internet, but I have friends who I don't
Speaker 2: talk about any of this with, and so like I
Speaker 2: have my kind of inside opinions, and then you know what,
Speaker 2: if we're sitting around drinking beers, I'm not bringing that
Speaker 2: stuff up. And one of the things I've noticed is
Speaker 2: that like there are certain things that have become synonymous
Speaker 2: with like being real or being authentic that like ten
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago, were really really fringe. And it's the
Speaker 2: same thing as like the low five sounds. So for instance,
Speaker 2: like to be honest, like casual anti semitism, right, like
Speaker 2: making a joke about like babie or like culling some
Speaker 2: guy like, oh, Rabbi whatever Steen if he doesn't like
Speaker 2: pay his venmo for you know, dinner on time. Sure,
Speaker 2: like sure, that's whatever. It's a joke and there's not
Speaker 2: even a lot of like thought behind it. It's not
Speaker 2: like that guy has like.
Speaker 3: It's an internal ribbing. It's it's soft ribbing. And you know,
Speaker 3: so many cultures are right, but it's also like people
Speaker 3: were able to do that.
Speaker 2: It's also like, oh, you're cool, Like you can say
Speaker 2: the thing you're not supposed to, so you're like you're real,
Speaker 2: You're not putting on your like corporate face, and like
Speaker 2: maybe this is naive man, But like I don't know
Speaker 2: how how much that system can endure where no one
Speaker 2: really under a certain age believes in it anymore. Like
Speaker 2: it's not it doesn't feel real anymore, do you see?
Speaker 2: You see what I'm getting a rusty? Is that too vage?
Speaker 3: The system of the system of what having to have
Speaker 3: this internal duality where you're having to outwardly present yourself
Speaker 3: in a way that's in a major conflict to your
Speaker 3: internal beliefs in I don't know, confusion there or I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: That's human talking about like whatever the system is that's
Speaker 2: like between John Lennon and us, you know, like that
Speaker 2: line of thought, you know where it's like this kind
Speaker 2: of vague system of values that you would get from
Speaker 2: like Hollywood, you know, John Lennon, whatever, that like you
Speaker 2: see in a certain group of people has like almost
Speaker 2: crystallized into something too rigid for culture to exist in anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm maybe I'm being too vague, see
Speaker 2: what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's well, you know, mentioning the John Lennon times.
Speaker 3: I mean, if we're going back in history and we're saying, well,
Speaker 3: this is how people thought in the sixties, it's probably not.
Speaker 3: That was how some people thought. That was the winning idea,
Speaker 3: that was the one that stood the test of time,
Speaker 3: and that's how history was, you know revised. Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: the hippies were all about this. There were two sides,
Speaker 3: those who were for this and those who weren't. I
Speaker 3: imagine there was a lot of there had to be
Speaker 3: a lot of pushback or criticism of John Lennon time.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have no idea the whole like the
Speaker 2: whole Nixon thing, right, Like Nixon was the most popular
Speaker 2: president next I mean Reagan, but that was basically the
Speaker 2: same group of people, right, Like that was a huge
Speaker 2: cultural backlash, but like, like I mean literally, I think
Speaker 2: he won every state except for Massachusetts, which is like crazy, right,
Speaker 2: but like it's just been pushed out of cultural memory.
Speaker 3: You know, it doesn't exist, right. All you're ever supposed
Speaker 3: to know about Nixon is what you're supposed to know,
Speaker 3: and that is he was a criminal and what don't
Speaker 3: look into anything he did. He was a bad president.
Speaker 2: Have you ever read this is so completely a tangent,
Speaker 2: but it's really funny. Have you ever read about Nixon
Speaker 2: as like a young man, dude? It's so funny. It's
Speaker 2: the early stories. It's like from his diary and he's like,
Speaker 2: I did it again, guys, went on a date with
Speaker 2: a girl. It was going great, and then I just
Speaker 2: monologued about ancient Roman battles for three hours, and now
Speaker 2: she doesn't want to talk to me anymore.
Speaker 3: He's an insul meme. Lord.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, sorry.
Speaker 3: No, that's good. Yeah. I like what he said about
Speaker 3: Bohemian Grove is a bunch of fags, dude.
Speaker 2: Those dates are hilarious. Where It's like, look, there's no
Speaker 2: reality where I end up being the president or like
Speaker 2: read in. But you listen to stuff like that and
Speaker 2: you're like, all right, that's probably pretty much what I
Speaker 2: would say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was a real one. I mean, I guess
Speaker 3: every politic now, unless they're completely isolated from the Internet
Speaker 3: or whatever. I mean. Now we have like JD Vance,
Speaker 3: who has his emo pictures and his catboy era and
Speaker 3: all this cringe shit from my space that you just
Speaker 3: can't get rid of. It's not like, oh, did you
Speaker 3: do cocaine ones or take a hit off of a blunt.
Speaker 3: It's like they know your cringe. All your videos can
Speaker 3: probably be found on.
Speaker 2: Some As I was about to say, there's there's an
Speaker 2: unfortunate amount of in that hypothetical reality. The oppo research
Speaker 2: would not have to look deep at all. I think
Speaker 2: there's photos of me with like isis propaganda from like
Speaker 2: maybe a year ago, So like, I'm cooked.
Speaker 3: I worry about this getting caught up in some sort
Speaker 3: of big trial. I don't know why I would, but
Speaker 3: imagine imagine being a fuck what's his name? Who is
Speaker 3: the kid that brought the gun to I think it
Speaker 3: was Kenosha, And yeah, written house. You know, God forbid
Speaker 3: I ever get caught up in some sort of major
Speaker 3: in front of a lot of eyes trial where they're
Speaker 3: trying to slander my character or say I shoot someone
Speaker 3: that comes into my house because they're burglarizing it, and
Speaker 3: then they're they're trying to make a character attack on me.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't be very hard for them to show them
Speaker 3: the body of my work and find the most miserable shit,
Speaker 3: like well, here he is teaching you how to tie
Speaker 3: a noose, or here he is saying white women fuck
Speaker 3: dogs and blah blah blah, and I'd have to sit
Speaker 3: there and go, well, listen, no, it's this is yet
Speaker 3: to look at it in the context of which I
Speaker 3: made it.
Speaker 2: It was a joke mostly right. Well, I mean you
Speaker 2: were talking earlier right about like the ultimate justification for
Speaker 2: being an artist is being you know, tortured to death
Speaker 2: in a basement for your work as a podcaster. I
Speaker 2: feel like I haven't made it till at least one
Speaker 2: transcript has appeared in court, and so, uh, Rusty, all
Speaker 2: I'm saying is, if you, if you do something bad,
Speaker 2: maybe we can use this as evidence. And I realized
Speaker 2: that wouldn't help you, but it would fulfill a personal goal.
Speaker 2: So if you're planning on committing felony, that appreciate a
Speaker 2: shout out.
Speaker 3: Yeah absolutely, Uh now I'll call you up. You will
Speaker 3: be there in the courtroom.
Speaker 2: Well, dude, Rusty, this is supposed to be an hour
Speaker 2: long show. We've did an hour ten, which how you
Speaker 2: know it's a good episode because I got completely distracted.
Speaker 2: You'd end up adhering to our schedule at all, Dude,
Speaker 2: this has been a ton of fun. Oh you mentioned
Speaker 2: obviously your your videos. But where can people find you? Man?
Speaker 3: I would say the best place right now is either
Speaker 3: on x dot com. This is where I'm probably gonna
Speaker 3: be posting the most updates on anything, and that's at
Speaker 3: R S T y CG Rusty Cage without any you
Speaker 3: know of those other letters and uh YouTube the Rusty
Speaker 3: Case Show. That's my new channel since I've had I
Speaker 3: had to leave my old channel that had all the
Speaker 3: millions of subscribers because I believe they're trying to take
Speaker 3: it down. It's been very soft shadow band for a
Speaker 3: few years.
Speaker 2: Rusty. What could you possibly have done to piss off YouTube?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean the last thing was a live stream
Speaker 3: where I cut my head off with a giant guillotine.
Speaker 3: I don't know if they liked that, But everything before that, Yeah,
Speaker 3: when you're on the internet long enough, essentially every all
Speaker 3: of these videos that kind of made my channel big
Speaker 3: in the first place are slowly just getting struck and
Speaker 3: removed from the website. So it's gonna be hard for
Speaker 3: anyone stepping in now to see the old body of work.
Speaker 3: But I make music and it's on there.
Speaker 2: I'll put it this way. I'm always inherently suspicious of
Speaker 2: someone who has no problems on social media, like, look
Speaker 2: like I get it, Like there's certain things, there's certain
Speaker 2: euphemisms you can use to skirt buy a lot of it.
Speaker 2: But if you've had any sort of Internet presence and
Speaker 2: you haven't had something taken down, like are you even trying?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, and it's allowed to stay up, I'm like, fucking,
Speaker 3: who do you work for? Who do you know? Or
Speaker 3: if that's stupid, I can't figure out what I'm doing
Speaker 3: that's so agreeable?
Speaker 2: Maybe resting. Maybe we were talking about how everyone else
Speaker 2: is a is a secret government plant? Have you considered
Speaker 2: that maybe uh Raytheon wants that video of you cutting
Speaker 2: off your own head and a homemade guillotine. That's all
Speaker 2: a part of the plant.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I know. I just wish they would pay
Speaker 3: me for it.
Speaker 2: Fair put. This was a ton of fun. It was
Speaker 2: great having you on and everyone at home. Keep your
Speaker 2: head up, good night, goodbye.
Speaker 1: Oh what what what what? What? What's garret Na gart