WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:10.599 You see something's going to happen. What what's going to happen? 2 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:12.960 I'll take. 3 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:28.320 What help. Welcome to the occult rejects. Today, we've got 4 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:32.039 a very very special guest. It's somebody who a lot 5 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:34.479 of you may already know. If you're into the occult 6 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:38.399 community and you're into uh, if you're into I guess 7 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:41.439 uh kind of practicing or learning about that, you probably 8 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:44.880 know who this guy is. If you're into the conspiracy 9 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:46.920 side of things, you may not know who he is, 10 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:49.359 and that's a shame. But after today, now you will 11 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:53.000 know who he is. Today we got Greg Kaminski and 12 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:56.079 he is the host and producer of a cult of personality. 13 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:58.960 That is a long running interview show that has been 14 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:01.640 digging into the occult and esoteric since about two thousand 15 00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:04.680 and six, So correct, and it's with a real deal 16 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:09.319 emphasis on authenticity, accuracy, and high quality conversations with practitioners 17 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:12.840 and scholars from all over the world. Greg is not 18 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:15.519 just an interviewer, he's also a practitioner with a long 19 00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:20.359 arc through Western ESO terrorism initiatory traditions, including Freemasonry, and 20 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:23.879 in most recent years he's spoken openly about his very 21 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:27.200 hona Buddhist practices, so you know, he's got a little 22 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:30.799 bit of hands on work as well. So today I guess, 23 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:32.159 you know, I kind of wanted to talk to the 24 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:33.799 guy and go kind of a little bit behind the 25 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:37.280 scenes what it means like to practice seriously, what changes 26 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:40.040 you and like how the podcast and everything else went 27 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:42.400 along with that and his I guess, you know, journey 28 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:47.000 through podcasting and the occult and one. It's just amazing 29 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:49.439 to even have this guy on because I remember years 30 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:53.040 ago I was listening to his show, like it's just weird, 31 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:55.599 like in some ways I hate to use this, I 32 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:58.000 guess as a way to compare it, but like for 33 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.879 people with the conspiracy world, everybody looks up at tenfoil Hat, 34 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:02.920 it was like, oh my god, that's the show for me, 35 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:06.280 and the cult community Cult of Personality was like just 36 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:08.439 like that to me. So it's you know, it's insane 37 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:10.360 that I'm having this guy on the show right now. 38 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:13.080 So it's really cool for me, and I hope everybody 39 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:15.719 else enjoys this. But Greg, enough out of me. Please 40 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:18.319 let everybody know what your deal is and where they 41 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:22.840 can find all your amazing work, sir, Thanks so much. 42 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:25.159 Nick. It's really a pleasure to talk to you, and 43 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:29.960 thanks for having me on. I appreciate it very much. Yeah, 44 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.120 you can find the podcast The Cult to Personality wherever 45 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:37.280 you get your podcasts. And we have a membership site 46 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:43.080 Chamber of Reflection dot com or Patreon to get extras 47 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:50.000 or bonus parts of interviews and whatnot. So I have 48 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:52.759 a few books out as well. We can probably talk 49 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:56.800 about that as we go. And yeah, also I want 50 00:02:56.840 --> 00:03:02.560 to since we're live and streaming, I want to pimp 51 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:06.360 my YouTube channel, Call to Personality a little bit. Also, 52 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:12.840 uh so watch that space because I got the podcast 53 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:16.400 all organized finally on there, and I'm going to be 54 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:20.680 adding a lot of extra content onto YouTube. It is 55 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:24.639 not part of the regular podcast, so watch for it. 56 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:30.120 Awesome, Thank you very much, And if you want after 57 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:31.680 the show, I'll make sure I grab that link and 58 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:33.800 up even add it to the live so people can 59 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:40.639 go and smash that smash that subscribe button and real quick, No, 60 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:42.879 that's by my fault. I think that was my fault. 61 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:44.479 I sent the link to the group chat and after 62 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:46.199 the email, my apologies. 63 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:48.080 I know I left the group chat. That's why, Hi, Greg, 64 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:50.599 how are you doing. I'm sorry? I apologize for being. 65 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:55.039 Jim Jenna has had the pleasure to have them on 66 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:57.319 before Jin. Let everybody know what your deal is and 67 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.759 where they can find all your amazing stuff, please sure. 68 00:04:00.919 --> 00:04:04.879 So, yes, Greg has an upcoming episode on my show. 69 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:08.120 I won't announce the other thing, but I have something 70 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.080 Greg and I have some exciting in the plant in 71 00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:16.439 the works, we'll say. But he also has original episode 72 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:19.759 on my show, Tales from the Carnal Ground episode eight 73 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:24.639 that was you know, it's like a totally nube green podcaster. 74 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:27.040 Nick had just adopted me, brought me under his wing. 75 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:30.480 So thank you Nick, of course. But yeah, so if 76 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:32.519 you want to check me out Threshold Saints at Threshold 77 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:36.079 Saints on ig and also ex Twitter, or you can 78 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:38.199 follow me at Wukong Reborn to b U k O 79 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.079 and g Reborn. And we will be having a Gray 80 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:44.519 Lodge on the twenty six, which is Boxing Day, which 81 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:46.399 will be a Friday night Nasig Mass. It'll be like 82 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.000 a year in review for all all the work that 83 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:49.680 we've been doing. 84 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:51.600 And I have an. 85 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:55.680 Episode with Finally Finally coming out Gregory Peters and Solar Exile, 86 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:58.839 my co host. We have that coming out Monday on 87 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:01.120 the twenty second I thought I would, you know, give 88 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:05.079 it a magic aonic number. So I'm really excited to 89 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:07.040 be here. Thank you so much, Nick, and of course 90 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:09.839 thank you to Greg, who is a legend. Greg knows 91 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:12.040 how much I found boy over him, so I won't 92 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:13.920 do it too bad, but I just want to say 93 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:14.759 he is a legend. 94 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:16.879 Everybody be nice in the. 95 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:20.759 Chat, and I'm sure they will and sub to Greg's 96 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:22.199 show of course and rejects. 97 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:22.839 Thank you guys. 98 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:24.959 Oh, thank you very much. Man. I'm glad you glad 99 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:26.959 you made it. Sorry about the whole link of mitsap 100 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:31.879 to but uh yeah, all right. So Greg, something I 101 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:33.240 did when I guess ask and it's kind of like 102 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:35.639 what I ask about anybody who really gets into practicing 103 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.319 or release, like maybe studying it, Like what when was it? 104 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:41.480 Like do you remember like what happened to you, like 105 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:43.680 at one point when you're like, I guess the occult 106 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:45.800 isn't a curiosity anymore. It's it's going to be part 107 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:48.600 of your life. Was it like something that or did 108 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.120 it just kind of happen or was there a moment? 109 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:52.480 How did that happen for me? 110 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:59.879 Yeah, this is kind of a bit of a story. 111 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:12.959 So let's see, I think I was probably I don't know, 112 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:20.639 somewhere around two thousand. I was working in some like 113 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:32.279 technology job at a finance company, and by all standards, 114 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:38.720 I was like fairly successful financially, like accomplishments at work, 115 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:48.480 like getting promotions and responsibilities, and but it just it 116 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:54.959 just felt completely hollow. And it was obvious like it 117 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:58.079 didn't matter like what happened at work or how much 118 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:01.480 money I made. It wasn't really going to do anything 119 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:06.199 in terms of satisfaction or finding any kind of real 120 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:11.560 meaning in my life. So I was getting a little 121 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.040 bit frustrated. And this went on for a long time. 122 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:22.759 And then at some point I got really interested in 123 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:27.279 shamanism and I started reading about shamanism, and I I 124 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:33.680 was checking out different different sacred substances, I guess you 125 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:39.480 could say, and I stumbled upon salvia divinorum. 126 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:41.560 Oh, I don know if I've heard of that. 127 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:46.600 And so one night I decided, like, let's just give 128 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:55.399 this a shot, because why not, right, So I did 129 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:57.959 the whole thing, you know, I like I prayed for 130 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:02.160 a while, I like lit the candles and some incense, 131 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:05.040 and I just like tried to meditate for a bit 132 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:09.680 and just think about like I'm trying to do this 133 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:15.000 thing which doesn't seem directly related at all to trying 134 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:17.000 to find some kind of meaning in my life, but 135 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:22.199 yet I've somehow connected the two, like if I do 136 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:27.519 this thing, I'll somehow get what I'm looking for. I'll 137 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:32.519 find some direction in my life, something that's going to 138 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:36.480 tell me like what I should be doing, where I 139 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:44.840 should go. So then I smoked a salvia and had 140 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:47.279 like I don't know if it was a completely out 141 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:50.600 of body experience or a semi out of body experience, 142 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:57.879 but it was that with like some crazy Kundalini kind 143 00:08:57.879 --> 00:09:06.720 of situation happening, hearing like voices and visions, and it 144 00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:11.759 only lasted maybe I don't know, twenty thirty seconds. It's 145 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:17.279 hard to say really honestly, but I knew something had 146 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:20.720 happened because it felt like i'd like kind of shot 147 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.559 out of my head and like hit the ceiling kind 148 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:25.279 of situation. 149 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:26.720 I've heard that before. 150 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:39.159 And afterwards I was totally confused, but I knew something 151 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:48.919 had happened. And then I also knew that I felt 152 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:55.240 happy without any seeming source or like cause of whatever 153 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:59.799 would make me happy about that. That is interesting it was, 154 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:04.840 and that lasted for like a week. I was in 155 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:16.200 an uncharacteristically good mood like the whole day. And then 156 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:21.480 I started trying to figure out what had happened, and 157 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:27.799 that took a while. And then I finally, after asking 158 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:32.159 people and not really getting any kind of positive response 159 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:37.480 that was productive in any way, I kind of self 160 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:43.879 diagnosed it as a Kundalini experience induced by the salvia. 161 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.720 I'm not saying salvia does this or would do this 162 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.840 for anyone else, but that's what happened for me. And 163 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:56.039 I'm not saying it happened other times. I did it, 164 00:10:56.559 --> 00:10:59.360 because there were other times and it didn't happen like 165 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:07.000 that at all. But I mean, if we're looking seriously 166 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:10.519 at trying to diagnose the cause of it, I would 167 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:12.600 say it was more the intention and the prayer and 168 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:18.840 the meditation and the sense of like meaninglessness and desperation 169 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:23.759 and like longing for some kind of clue. That was 170 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:30.000 more the culprit than the salvia itself. You know, I 171 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:35.440 mentioned I mentioned that, like so yeah once, sorry, no, 172 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:35.919 no go ahead. 173 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:38.039 I just mentioned like a lot of like what you 174 00:11:38.039 --> 00:11:40.399 were saying right there has kind of been like whenever 175 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:43.960 I've had some profound experiences. There was really more of 176 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:45.600 the lines of where I was trying to go, like 177 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.960 you were just saying, I may I'd have been the 178 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:51.919 salvia was everything else, even the desperation or just like 179 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:55.519 you know, I have I identified with what you said 180 00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:56.960 for sure. 181 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:02.399 Yeah, so I felt like, you know, connecting that the 182 00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:09.639 intention and the action with the result doing it and 183 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:16.000 the real like like I don't know, there's there's few 184 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:22.159 times in our lives when we're like that, that like 185 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:26.519 against the wall, where you just are like I gotta 186 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:32.240 get some help here, please, and you know, and I 187 00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:36.279 think in those moments, if you can like marshal your 188 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:43.120 attention in such a way, then things are possible that 189 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:49.480 wouldn't maybe otherwise be possible. So anyway, with understanding it 190 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:53.360 is a Cundalini experience, then that just really led to 191 00:12:54.240 --> 00:13:00.759 trying to understand like what that is and how to 192 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:10.960 somehow make use of it. So I started like delving 193 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:18.399 into the occult, esoteric, paranormal, conspiracy, all of this kind 194 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:22.720 of stuff. And I feel like, again like this is 195 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:27.159 all in my book Entangled in Sunlight, So there's no 196 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:32.799 reason not to share it with you here either, part 197 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:39.799 of this whole awakening process, because that's really ultimately what 198 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:47.039 it is, or at least the beginnings of it. I 199 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:52.480 had a memory that i'd suppressed that kind of like 200 00:13:53.679 --> 00:14:02.080 came back suddenly, and it was a memory that there 201 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:09.200 was no physical danger or problem or anything of that sort. 202 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:16.399 But like mentally and emotionally, I was like completely I 203 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:19.159 don't want to use the word traumatized, because I feel 204 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:26.240 like that's an overused word, but I was shocked beyond 205 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:36.559 being this altogether. So this memory like involved She's I 206 00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:38.399 can see even now, like trying to talk about it, 207 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:50.240 I'm like a little So I'm in college. It's nineteen 208 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:57.720 ninety nineteen ninety one, somewhere around there. It's January. I 209 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:03.639 had come back to university from Christmas break a little 210 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:08.080 bit early because I just wanted to get settled and 211 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:14.960 see my friends again before everything started. So I'm pretty 212 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:18.360 sure it was a full moon that night. So again 213 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:27.879 this is like mid to late January. So we went 214 00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:33.720 to a party. There weren't that many people on campus 215 00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:36.720 at this point, but there was a party and we 216 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:40.519 went and one of my friends who I went to 217 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:47.480 the party with got pretty hammered and they were just 218 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:51.559 not able to socialize anymore. So I was like, I'm 219 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:54.080 going to take you back to the dorm and you 220 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.000 can sleep it off, and because that's what i'd want 221 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:01.679 somebody to do for me in that situation. So we 222 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:07.759 walked back to the dorm and as we're sort of 223 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.399 approaching the rear of the dorm, this is like a 224 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:15.840 six story dormitory. I don't know how many people it 225 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:26.279 would house. Maybe thousand, couple thousand, I don't know. So 226 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:29.120 we're sort of approaching it, and again I think it 227 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.480 was a full moon. We're very close to it, so 228 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:40.759 it's bright out dim. So I stop and I like 229 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:46.759 look up, and I notice above us, really like right 230 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:52.320 above the top of the dorm, there is a massive 231 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:58.320 black triangle materializing out of nowhere. 232 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:05.319 Oh, I think you're frozen. 233 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:12.920 And it's there's like a red sort of ash. There's 234 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:17.480 like a reddish color like on the bottom as it's 235 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:23.559 like materializing in the air above us, and this thing's massive, 236 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:27.160 like I don't know if you've ever seen like a 237 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:32.559 battleship or something like massive, that's of like it was 238 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:38.640 of that sort of size. I guess it was massive, 239 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:45.359 and it didn't make any noise at all, and it 240 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:50.960 didn't really it was very like stable in the floating 241 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:56.759 there or appearing there, and all along the bottom of 242 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:01.200 this thing, because it wasn't that far above us, you 243 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:06.039 could see there were all these lights moving all around 244 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:10.440 the bottom of this thing in like a very complex 245 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:16.079 what looked like a circuit board sort of pattern. And 246 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:24.400 I was completely frozen, like I remember, like I couldn't 247 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:28.880 move a muscle and my jaw was just like hanging open. 248 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:33.240 I couldn't even close my mouth. I'm not even sure 249 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:39.759 I was breathing, if I'm honest, Like I like, Greg 250 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:45.039 was just gone at that point, but whatever was happening, 251 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:47.799 like I could there was still seeing. I was still 252 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:53.559 seeing something, something was being seen. And then all of 253 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:59.720 a sudden, it's gone. And I look over my right 254 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:03.920 sh shoulder at the horizon and there's this blue streak 255 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:11.160 like moving silently as fast as I mean, as fast 256 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.680 as you could possibly imagine, that's at the horizon. And 257 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:20.200 then it's gone. And then I turned to my friend 258 00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:27.480 who's right next to me, and I say, what was that? 259 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:33.880 And they look at me dead and eye and they're like, 260 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:41.039 what was what? And at that point, something like in 261 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:45.799 my brain kind of broke again, like like cause it's 262 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:50.400 it had just broken already, and then it broke again. 263 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:57.039 And then and then we went inside the dorm and 264 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.359 I can't I'm completely like, I can't stop thinking about 265 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:02.519 what had just happened, and I'm like, I got to 266 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:11.839 tell somebody, because holy fuck, this is insane. So we 267 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.279 go in and I know, you know, there's not many 268 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:18.440 people on campus, it's really before classes began, but like, 269 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:23.359 I couldn't find a single person in that building. I 270 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:30.319 couldn't find another human being. I tried, I couldn't find anybody. 271 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:37.079 And then I laid down because it was late, and 272 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:41.039 I kept thinking, I really need to tell someone. I 273 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:45.440 really need to tell someone. And then before, right before 274 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:51.200 I fell asleep, I remember thinking, you can't tell anybody, 275 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:56.519 because it's like, don't be ridiculous, like that's just crazy. 276 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.200 You can't tell anybody. And then I fell asleep, and 277 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.160 then I forgot about it for I don't know, ten 278 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:12.000 or fifteen years until I had this salvia experience and 279 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:17.920 started investigating all this stuff and meditating, and and then 280 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:22.599 it just came right back, which again is a little weird. 281 00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:27.119 I don't know, you can make whatever connections you feel 282 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:28.519 are necessary about that. 283 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:35.880 That's wow, Jin did you know that Sloria already? 284 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:39.240 So I'm familiar with it, but I'm not. I've never 285 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:42.319 asked Greg to recount it for me, so it was 286 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:43.640 the first time I've heard it live. 287 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:44.680 So it's a. 288 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:50.279 It's interesting because I think that a lot of well 289 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:51.920 I won't speak for Greg, but I'll just say for me, 290 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.680 I think like a lot of my later practice of 291 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.960 contrac Buddhism definitely came from the early your sort of 292 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:06.920 quote unquote supernatural is esque kind of ish experiences, and 293 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:11.400 it definitely were the contours of what I would call rigpa. 294 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:15.279 Now I don't know if Greg necessarily uses that exact word, 295 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:17.640 but I would say that it's like the essence of 296 00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.200 non being ness like he referred to. So I had 297 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:25.359 ever gotten there per se, but I think I had 298 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:29.440 touched on it, and so it kind of led me 299 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:34.079 into this anti spiritualist, anti supernaturalist approach that I take 300 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:39.400 more now. Not that I don't believe in you know, phenomena. 301 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.319 I just think it mostly is of the mind. But 302 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.480 I think those are two co creative things. I think 303 00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:49.720 that having the experiences and then also the experience as 304 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:54.240 a mind led me to that conclusion, rather than it 305 00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:56.559 wasn't like I saw a spirit and then was like, 306 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.799 oh I must worship it or I must you know, 307 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:04.680 I must like I mustn't inherently believe that this whole 308 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:08.400 supernatural cosmology exists. Like sure, I'm okay with that, but 309 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:12.079 I also like I understand that how they appear is 310 00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:16.640 a reflection of my own consciousness. 311 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:18.160 Thank you, sir. 312 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:24.079 Yeah, I feel like that's super relevant because even right 313 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:30.200 after it happened, I remember thinking again during this period 314 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:33.640 where I'm like laying down trying to figure out who 315 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:38.880 to tell, was like, Okay, was this from somewhere some 316 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:46.119 other planet? Was it some secret space program? Is it 317 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:56.160 some hallucination? Is it some kind of like demon or 318 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.519 angel that's like showed up in a form that it's like, 319 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:03.759 this guy's gonna die if we like show our true form. 320 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:07.400 Let's just come as a UFO. He'll at least, like 321 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:12.599 you won't totally freak out, but I did. I don't 322 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:16.480 know whatever it was, but then you know, then you 323 00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:21.440 kind of come to like more what you would say, 324 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:32.559 substantial kind of understandings about reality. And so yeah, like 325 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:38.440 I think Gene alluded to like all appearance is mind, 326 00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:45.839 So at least that's a way to contextualize it in 327 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.359 such a way that I don't have to actually know 328 00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:51.880 any specifics other than that. 329 00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:00.079 That was really uh, it was a wild story. I 330 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:00.799 you to share that. 331 00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:05.759 Yeah, thanks, thanks for letting me share. Uh. 332 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:09.359 I guess after like once you started, I guess, getting 333 00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:12.599 into studying the occult to looking into that, what was 334 00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.400 like some of the stuff that you, I guess were 335 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:22.400 first intrigued by. 336 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:24.160 What was I first intrigued by? 337 00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:25.960 Yeah, yeah, I guess like when when you started getting 338 00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:27.599 into the occult, Like I think you said you sort 339 00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:29.960 of like kind of looking there for like uh stuff too, 340 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:32.839 Like I guess maybe for answers or whatever for your experience. 341 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:36.079 Oh yeah, I guess, like like what was it that 342 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:38.559 you kind of like were interested in or like found 343 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:41.400 yourself studying when you first started getting into this stuff. 344 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:53.240 I think it was a combination of like I guess 345 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:58.920 you would say like inner alchemical ideas because that really 346 00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:01.440 related to the Dealini situation. 347 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:03.480 Yeah yeah, I could see that. Yeah. 348 00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:12.240 And then the other thing was theilema because I encountered 349 00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:21.119 Alan Greenfield's work, right, and so he's connecting the Men 350 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:30.480 in Black and the UFO phenomena with new aon English 351 00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:34.960 kabbala and filima and sort of like this idea of 352 00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:43.279 what he called, I think ultra terrestrial intelligences, so that 353 00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:46.240 I felt like that was really a direct connection to 354 00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:49.799 like what the fuck was going on with me at 355 00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:57.559 that point. But turns out it wasn't as fruitful a 356 00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:03.440 direction of investigation as I thought, at least for me personally, 357 00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:07.759 but that's kind of where it started, and it led 358 00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:20.519 into like more I guess hermeticabala and exploring those ideas 359 00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:25.799 really much more in depth, like especially the work of 360 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:35.319 like Paul Foster Case and his sort of like major Arcana. 361 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:46.119 I remember studying that a lot, so I'd say that 362 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:51.519 was kind of like the basis of it, but then 363 00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:57.799 it kind of went into sort of like wound back 364 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:05.079 into the spiritual alchemy, Like I remember studying cases Esotere 365 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:11.640 Keys of Alchemy book really in depth, and then going 366 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:19.200 into David Goddard's Tower of Alchemy book and doing the 367 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:25.599 practices in there, and that was I found that was 368 00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:29.680 probably one of the most profound things that I did, 369 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:38.359 was those meditations. And it was interesting because at the 370 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:43.240 time I had no way of knowing ahead of time. 371 00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:49.720 But like his explanations of the inner alchemy process and 372 00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:56.640 Vadriana and the symbols of Buddhism, and like all the 373 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:01.920 ways these things were like trying to express a similar 374 00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:09.759 I don't want to say truth, but a similar method 375 00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:14.599 of practice and way of understanding. 376 00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:22.000 Thank you, Jin, Did you want to ask anything? 377 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:27.119 I do have a follow up that is adjacent, maybe derivative, 378 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:29.079 but I'm going to wait for that. I just want 379 00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:33.880 to make one comment slash question. First is that I 380 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.079 do agree with Greg whether he's saying, and I understand 381 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:40.480 even the implication, like how difficult it is to use 382 00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.359 a specific word, whether you want to use primordial system, 383 00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:49.000 axial system, or perennial system, none of those are. Primordial 384 00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:53.039 is probably the best, but the outer understanding of that 385 00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:57.519 word is not well defined, so it's it's problematic. From that, 386 00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.359 It's maybe a skillful word for people who get it, 387 00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:04.200 but not everyone gets it. But I do think that 388 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:07.880 there is I think that these systems Hermetic kabbala, Jewish 389 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.640 kabbala even like yes, of course, like I obviously we 390 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:13.400 were talking about this, and Greg and I have spoken 391 00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:15.319 about this extensively, and obviously we did a. 392 00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:16.079 Series on the snake. 393 00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:18.799 But like you know, when David Haym Smith is talking 394 00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:23.440 about like non theistic kabala, he's talking about the way 395 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:25.559 that I experience the sufferer and the way that I 396 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:29.480 experience the tree. So I know for a fact that 397 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:31.440 what he is talking about is real. But I did 398 00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:35.400 not experience it through that language. I experienced it through 399 00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:39.640 my way. But the experiences were so similar I was 400 00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:43.440 able to then understand at least to a degree more 401 00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:47.519