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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Chicks on the Right podcast,

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where we have our friend and sponsor of the show,

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Zach Abraham from Bulwark Capital Management, with us to talk

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about all things financial. And we've got a very interesting,

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kind of juicy topic for you today in the spirit

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of Valentine's which is of course the very best holiday

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ever to you to me. So there's an interesting article

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in the New York Times recently about whether or not

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couples are happier when they pull their money into a

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joint account or whether it's better to keep their finances separate.

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And you, of course have worked with the Zillian couples,

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So just I'm not going to tell you what the

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New York Times article concluded. What do you suspect is true?

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Are you happier if you're combined or are you happier

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if you're separate?

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Speaker 2: So I got to start by saying, uh, and I'll

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tell you.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you what my take on is because I

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have a very defined take might surprise some people.

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Speaker 2: But before I.

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Speaker 3: Say that, I will say that I was very surprised

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in my career to see multiple approaches work. Now I

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will say this, I will say this for whatever reason,

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And I think there's a ton of different reasons. I

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have seen a higher percentage of people that keep finances

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separate get divorced.

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Speaker 4: Divorced.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen a higher higher percentage.

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Speaker 3: It's not again, I've got clients who keep everything separate

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and been happy for forty years.

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Speaker 2: Right. But I will say, generally speaking, I have seen

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more issues. But here's the other thing I've thought about too.

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Speaker 3: It might be a chicken or the egg scenario, meaning

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there might be a very good reason why a spouse

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wants to keep their finances separate from another spouse.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean. It's like you don't want

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to you never want to judge now, well right right?

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Like yeah? Or or like what did your what if

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your spouse developed like a really bad gambling habit, you

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know right right? You know, and and.

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Speaker 3: A really dedicated spouse isn't going to leave them for that,

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but they're probably going to cording off their own finances.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's true. It sounds like you came to the

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same conclusion then, as the New York Times article, which

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suggests that you're closer and happier as a couple if

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you pool your finances.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that there's any way around it, right. Uh,

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we don't have to make it biblical. But even God

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talks about is you know, your your treasure is where

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your heart is, right, what you love is we.

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Speaker 2: And so like if you're if you know, if we're,

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if we're supposed.

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Speaker 3: To combine and be one unit, it's kind of hard

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if we both got side.

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Speaker 1: Bets, right, Yes, I agree with that.

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Speaker 3: It's almost like happened one foot out the door kind

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of yes, you know, And people are like, what if

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something bad happens and I'm my brother, you put on

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a ring like if I mean, it's done right, we

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got kids, We're in this right, there's no there's no

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back out.

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Speaker 2: There's no back door here. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So logistically it's so weird because you've got people who

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are like, well, I pay this bill and he pay

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that bill. Was like, how do you even do that

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and reconcile at the end of the month, Like it

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should just be one big bucket.

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Speaker 2: I don't understan.

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Speaker 4: I just don't understand logistically how people do that.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it would be really I feel like

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it could be really hard, really complicated, right, just the

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communication that the extra layer of communication that's required. The

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other thing too, is just, uh, you know that intimacy

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and if there are issues around money, I think it

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prompts important conversations and it forces you to be more

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on the same on the same page.

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Speaker 2: And you know that's another thing.

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Speaker 3: We all know that in relationships, but I've seen it

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in finances too. If you are not on the same

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page financially, forget trying to accomplish any financial rules. Right,

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if you're not on the same It's like having a

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football team run in two different plays at the same time.

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Speaker 2: Right, they may be.

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Speaker 3: Amazing plays, it might be the best football team in

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the world, but if they're running two place at the

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same time, it's going to be a disaster.

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Speaker 4: That's a great analogy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah and so and yeah, I think having it together

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would be my vay. I give that advice to all

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young kids. I'm like, look, there's gonna be bumps along

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the way, and you're gonna have fight. Okay, it's going

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to happen emerge your finances.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So so do you how often do you find yourself

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in a position where you're like playing counselor and financial advisor,

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Because maybe you're talking about goals for retirement or whatever

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financial goals, and you've got somebody you maybe you have

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a couple who comes in thinking they've always been on

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the same page, but they're not, and they're having the

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fight in front of you. Can you think of like

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an example where that's happened and you've had to be

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all counselor person couple.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, certainly where things have gotten really awkward.

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Speaker 3: You know, where you're in the in the and you're

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looking around going, guys, I don't really think this is

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this isn't a me issue.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to leave you in the conference room.

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You could sort this one out, you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, right being like, the other

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thing is I want to reassure them because my wife

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and I have had the same arguments. Yeah you know

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what I mean, and I think that like and I

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encourage them. I go, hey, good, good. You know why

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you're ticked because this is a conversation you should have

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ten years ago. Right, that's why you're frustrated. So let's

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get it out. Let's hash it out. You both love

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each other, you've been married for a long time. No

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one's walking out of here, right, Like just let's let's

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hash it out. And and I would say the number

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one fight is typically around It really comes.

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Speaker 2: Down to communication and transparency.

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Speaker 3: Either one spouse is frustrated because the other spouse isn't

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being transparent enough. And usually there's no nefarious reason, right,

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they're just being weird about it or right, yeah, or

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or or somebody isn't being responsible with.

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Speaker 2: Their role in the financial you know, and the financial thing.

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Speaker 3: And it's it's such a it's so frustrating because I

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think that, you know, having cohesion around finances is so important,

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and if you have cohesion around finances, you can make

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any budget work.

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Speaker 2: Right. People always think it's the amount of money that

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matters it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, obviously that helps, right, but but but

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the big I've seen people with twenty million dollar networths

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that couldn't stand each other, and I've seen people with

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five hundred thousand dollars networth that were so happy and

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loved each other they couldn't see straight. Right, So it

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really is you know, it's well, what's what you make

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of it? And the communication and you know, all the

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stuff that we know.

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Speaker 4: I love it. Great advice, great advice, put it together,

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put it together kids, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Combine it and make your get let your money get married,

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let them get married.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's a great way to look at it.

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That's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: So what are the most common mistakes that especially people

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that are first seeing you, which assuming that they're being

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smart and seeing you on the young side, what are

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some of the most common mistakes that couples make when

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they do merge finances? Are there surprises that they're not

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prepared for.

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Speaker 3: I think it's it's not it's it's merging finances and

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not having a shared vision, right, Like I was saying, So,

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you've got one saver that's you know, stuff and money

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under the map. She got another guy that's coming home

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with a ninety thousand dollars BMW without Towna's wife, right.

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Speaker 1: Without a big red bow on it.

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Speaker 2: Right. No, no, yeah, well we took it off at

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the dealership. It was for him, right.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, just like those And it sounds funny

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that we laugh about it, but literally, you'll have people

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get married and they'll combine finances and they'll never think

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to have these conversations, right, like about what is it?

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Speaker 2: Like I said, you want to be on the same page,

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but also what do you spend? If so, how much?

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What is our budget? And I think that that's.

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Speaker 3: One of the reasons that merging accounts is so good

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because it forces those things.

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Speaker 2: To happen, especially early on.

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Speaker 3: Right, Women mature faster than men, and so usually women

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are the one urging us to grow up and save

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any money on stupid stuff.

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Speaker 2: And when we listen to them.

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Speaker 3: Oh, by the age of thirty five, well, how much

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money is in the IRA account of the four to

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one k?

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Speaker 2: Right? And then you sit there and you're like, oh,

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she was right. My wife's going to be replaying this

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on our house like stereo constile, right, but you know,

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but it's but it's true, and it is true.

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Speaker 3: And I have a finance degree, she has an English degree,

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and she helped me learn how to budget, you know,

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because I didn't. I was I was never I've never

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been a big spender, but I just wasn't disciplined about it,

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you know. And if you don't discipline, if you don't

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have a plan, you know, what is my college you know?

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Speaker 2: Plan? Failing to plan is planning to fail? Right, that's right, Yeah,

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that's right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, when is that?

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Speaker 2: I love this?

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Speaker 1: I love all this whole discussion, I think is so interesting. Now,

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what happens when you've got a huge imbalance. Say it's

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a say it's coach Belichick and a young gorgeous model.

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Speaker 4: And that's an example, Like what if they got.

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Speaker 1: Married and and and and the advice is do you

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need to pull your money? And he's like the f

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I do you know what I mean? Because it's so imbalanced.

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You dealt with couples in that situation where it's like

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super weird.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what's funny. So the vast majority of

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our clients are not that.

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Speaker 3: We just have a lot of the millionaire next door,

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blue collar millionaire types, entrepreneurs like that's that's the major Now.

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I have seen some scenarios though, through inherited money where

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somebody walks in with a lot and somebody walks in

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with nothing right, and that creates an interesting imbalance. There's

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two schools of thought on it, right, there's the whole

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Prenup school of thought. There's the whole not Prenup school

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of thought. I don't really I've been round and round

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about that. I wish I had a really firm opinion.

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I've part of me goes, you know, I don't think

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that we should look at that. And if I'm marrying

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the right person, it's somebody that obviously probably shares my faith,

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and so my faith is going to be in God

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and I don't need to preen up and all.

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Speaker 2: But we've all seen.

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Speaker 3: Those cases too, right, So you know, I my feeling

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on it. What I advise people is like, hey, if

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it's it, I you know, I throw a prenup on there.

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Speaker 2: I hate saying that, but I would. It was so

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much easier for my wife and I because we were

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both bro we'd have shake you know what I mean.

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We brought that work in. Like all I brought in

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was debt. You know. They were like you thought a

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will and I was like, what four right?

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Speaker 4: I can totally relate to that time when you when

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you come to the same place, it totally makes a difference.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my wife knows that she can have my five CDs,

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you know, or you to make a whipple. So when

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you got buddies, did have gone into the U not

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to you know, not not not to anything they did wrong. Uh,

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just good guys and didn't get didn't start getting married

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and you're looking around that way or ran into the right, girl,

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the thirty five thirty seven.

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Speaker 2: They'd had really big success.

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Speaker 3: Earlier in their careers, you know, and they were bringing

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eight ten twelve million dollar net worse into a into

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a into a marriage. And you know, the one thing

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I've seen though, that I've seen consistently is it's whoever's

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bringing the money into the marriage. Who whenever there is

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a big pushback, whenever somebody refuses to sign a prenup

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or there's a big what to do around a prenup,

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it never lasts, right, And it's where the people, the

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ones that last are the ones that, oh, yeah, I

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don't care, and then.

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Speaker 4: Just right, yeah, right, so what do I care?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And then I know one of my buddies that five

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years into it, he tore the prenup up, you know,

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for just because he was like, this was so stupid.

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Speaker 2: I I should be worried about me, not her. You know,

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that was like that was his why, you know, just

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his Yeah.

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Speaker 3: She's one of the she's one of the kindest, most

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beautiful people, you know, soul in the world. And so

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but yeah, he came to that realization and and but yeah,

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I I when you see the pushback, that's.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a red because again it's it's being misaligned

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and so like being aligned in your probably and your

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goals and all that seems to be the winning key, yeah.

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Speaker 3: In the end, and the other thing too. And I

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think everybody knows this, but I can't. I was just

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preaching this to a young cousin of mine last night,

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that debt day out of debt, right, only debt you

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should be carrying is on appreciating assets. Look like, I

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really want to write a like a book, like not really,

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I don't have time, right, and.

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Speaker 2: I probably nobody read it.

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Speaker 3: But if I was gonna ride a bike, you'd be like,

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look poor, right, just because all this debt that people get,

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if you look at it, it's so it's so illusory.

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It's just to look apart, right, And everybody's got the

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same range rover, so you don't even shold, Like what's

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the point?

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Speaker 4: I totally agree.

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Speaker 3: I built Bulwark in a two thousand and one four

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door Forge Focus hatchback yep. And I remember I pulled

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into a client's house was like an eight million dollars

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spread on the lake, and he goes, man, I thought

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you'd be like pulling up in at Bentley and I go.

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Speaker 2: You ever see me pulling at Bentley, move your money immediately? Exactly?

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I watch right.

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Speaker 4: I agree completely. I will always drive use cars always.

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Speaker 3: Even my new, even my new like my first new car,

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because I promised myself once we once we uh, when

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I didn't have to commute and go meet clients any more,

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that I'd get a new car.

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Speaker 2: I still could. I got a one year old car

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with sixteenth thousand. I can't. I can't do it. Yeah,

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I just because I'm.

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Speaker 3: They're identical, right, and this one saves me thirty grand.

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Speaker 2: I just I'm.

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Speaker 4: Toochering exactly the same way. I can't do it.

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Speaker 2: It's we're value investors, you know, right? Exactly?

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Speaker 1: Well, Zach, where can people find out more about how

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they can get your financial and also marital counseling advice?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I'm gonna get my wife's gonna love this episode.

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Uh go to Berkcapitalmanagement dot com and uh, you can

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just google Bowark Capital Management.

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Speaker 2: We're not tough to find.

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Speaker 3: And we are coming up on twenty years so next month, yeah,

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next month, so it will be twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Doing financial planning since you were four.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my parents would say that's that's the case. Yeah,

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I love it all right, thanks ladies. Reservices offered through

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Trek Financial loc and SEC Registered Investment Advisor. The opinions

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expressed in this programmer for general informational purposes only and

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are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for

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any individual or on any specific security. Any references to

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performance of security so it thought to be materially accurate

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and actual performance may different.

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Speaker 2: Investments involved risk and are not guaranteed. Past performance doesn't

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guarantee future results.

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Speaker 3: Track twenty four to three, Zeroly