Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Chicks on the Right podcast,
where we have our friend and sponsor of the show,
Zach Abraham from Bulwark Capital Management, with us to talk
about all things financial. And we've got a very interesting,
kind of juicy topic for you today in the spirit
of Valentine's which is of course the very best holiday
ever to you to me. So there's an interesting article
in the New York Times recently about whether or not
couples are happier when they pull their money into a
joint account or whether it's better to keep their finances separate.
And you, of course have worked with the Zillian couples,
So just I'm not going to tell you what the
New York Times article concluded. What do you suspect is true?
Are you happier if you're combined or are you happier
if you're separate?
Speaker 2: So I got to start by saying, uh, and I'll
tell you.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what my take on is because I
have a very defined take might surprise some people.
Speaker 2: But before I.
Speaker 3: Say that, I will say that I was very surprised
in my career to see multiple approaches work. Now I
will say this, I will say this for whatever reason,
And I think there's a ton of different reasons. I
have seen a higher percentage of people that keep finances
separate get divorced.
Speaker 4: Divorced.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen a higher higher percentage.
Speaker 3: It's not again, I've got clients who keep everything separate
and been happy for forty years.
Speaker 2: Right. But I will say, generally speaking, I have seen
more issues. But here's the other thing I've thought about too.
Speaker 3: It might be a chicken or the egg scenario, meaning
there might be a very good reason why a spouse
wants to keep their finances separate from another spouse.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean. It's like you don't want
to you never want to judge now, well right right?
Like yeah? Or or like what did your what if
your spouse developed like a really bad gambling habit, you
know right right? You know, and and.
Speaker 3: A really dedicated spouse isn't going to leave them for that,
but they're probably going to cording off their own finances.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's true. It sounds like you came to the
same conclusion then, as the New York Times article, which
suggests that you're closer and happier as a couple if
you pool your finances.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that there's any way around it, right. Uh,
we don't have to make it biblical. But even God
talks about is you know, your your treasure is where
your heart is, right, what you love is we.
Speaker 2: And so like if you're if you know, if we're,
if we're supposed.
Speaker 3: To combine and be one unit, it's kind of hard
if we both got side.
Speaker 1: Bets, right, Yes, I agree with that.
Speaker 3: It's almost like happened one foot out the door kind
of yes, you know, And people are like, what if
something bad happens and I'm my brother, you put on
a ring like if I mean, it's done right, we
got kids, We're in this right, there's no there's no
back out.
Speaker 2: There's no back door here. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So logistically it's so weird because you've got people who
are like, well, I pay this bill and he pay
that bill. Was like, how do you even do that
and reconcile at the end of the month, Like it
should just be one big bucket.
Speaker 2: I don't understan.
Speaker 4: I just don't understand logistically how people do that.
Speaker 3: I feel like it would be really I feel like
it could be really hard, really complicated, right, just the
communication that the extra layer of communication that's required. The
other thing too, is just, uh, you know that intimacy
and if there are issues around money, I think it
prompts important conversations and it forces you to be more
on the same on the same page.
Speaker 2: And you know that's another thing.
Speaker 3: We all know that in relationships, but I've seen it
in finances too. If you are not on the same
page financially, forget trying to accomplish any financial rules. Right,
if you're not on the same It's like having a
football team run in two different plays at the same time.
Speaker 2: Right, they may be.
Speaker 3: Amazing plays, it might be the best football team in
the world, but if they're running two place at the
same time, it's going to be a disaster.
Speaker 4: That's a great analogy.
Speaker 3: Yeah and so and yeah, I think having it together
would be my vay. I give that advice to all
young kids. I'm like, look, there's gonna be bumps along
the way, and you're gonna have fight. Okay, it's going
to happen emerge your finances.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So so do you how often do you find yourself
in a position where you're like playing counselor and financial advisor,
Because maybe you're talking about goals for retirement or whatever
financial goals, and you've got somebody you maybe you have
a couple who comes in thinking they've always been on
the same page, but they're not, and they're having the
fight in front of you. Can you think of like
an example where that's happened and you've had to be
all counselor person couple.
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, certainly where things have gotten really awkward.
Speaker 3: You know, where you're in the in the and you're
looking around going, guys, I don't really think this is
this isn't a me issue.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to leave you in the conference room.
You could sort this one out, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, right being like, the other
thing is I want to reassure them because my wife
and I have had the same arguments. Yeah you know
what I mean, and I think that like and I
encourage them. I go, hey, good, good. You know why
you're ticked because this is a conversation you should have
ten years ago. Right, that's why you're frustrated. So let's
get it out. Let's hash it out. You both love
each other, you've been married for a long time. No
one's walking out of here, right, Like just let's let's
hash it out. And and I would say the number
one fight is typically around It really comes.
Speaker 2: Down to communication and transparency.
Speaker 3: Either one spouse is frustrated because the other spouse isn't
being transparent enough. And usually there's no nefarious reason, right,
they're just being weird about it or right, yeah, or
or or somebody isn't being responsible with.
Speaker 2: Their role in the financial you know, and the financial thing.
Speaker 3: And it's it's such a it's so frustrating because I
think that, you know, having cohesion around finances is so important,
and if you have cohesion around finances, you can make
any budget work.
Speaker 2: Right. People always think it's the amount of money that
matters it.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, obviously that helps, right, but but but
the big I've seen people with twenty million dollar networths
that couldn't stand each other, and I've seen people with
five hundred thousand dollars networth that were so happy and
loved each other they couldn't see straight. Right, So it
really is you know, it's well, what's what you make
of it? And the communication and you know, all the
stuff that we know.
Speaker 4: I love it. Great advice, great advice, put it together,
put it together kids, exactly.
Speaker 3: Combine it and make your get let your money get married,
let them get married.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's a great way to look at it.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1: So what are the most common mistakes that especially people
that are first seeing you, which assuming that they're being
smart and seeing you on the young side, what are
some of the most common mistakes that couples make when
they do merge finances? Are there surprises that they're not
prepared for.
Speaker 3: I think it's it's not it's it's merging finances and
not having a shared vision, right, Like I was saying, So,
you've got one saver that's you know, stuff and money
under the map. She got another guy that's coming home
with a ninety thousand dollars BMW without Towna's wife, right.
Speaker 1: Without a big red bow on it.
Speaker 2: Right. No, no, yeah, well we took it off at
the dealership. It was for him, right.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, just like those And it sounds funny
that we laugh about it, but literally, you'll have people
get married and they'll combine finances and they'll never think
to have these conversations, right, like about what is it?
Speaker 2: Like I said, you want to be on the same page,
but also what do you spend? If so, how much?
What is our budget? And I think that that's.
Speaker 3: One of the reasons that merging accounts is so good
because it forces those things.
Speaker 2: To happen, especially early on.
Speaker 3: Right, Women mature faster than men, and so usually women
are the one urging us to grow up and save
any money on stupid stuff.
Speaker 2: And when we listen to them.
Speaker 3: Oh, by the age of thirty five, well, how much
money is in the IRA account of the four to
one k?
Speaker 2: Right? And then you sit there and you're like, oh,
she was right. My wife's going to be replaying this
on our house like stereo constile, right, but you know,
but it's but it's true, and it is true.
Speaker 3: And I have a finance degree, she has an English degree,
and she helped me learn how to budget, you know,
because I didn't. I was I was never I've never
been a big spender, but I just wasn't disciplined about it,
you know. And if you don't discipline, if you don't
have a plan, you know, what is my college you know?
Speaker 2: Plan? Failing to plan is planning to fail? Right, that's right, Yeah,
that's right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, when is that?
Speaker 2: I love this?
Speaker 1: I love all this whole discussion, I think is so interesting. Now,
what happens when you've got a huge imbalance. Say it's
a say it's coach Belichick and a young gorgeous model.
Speaker 4: And that's an example, Like what if they got.
Speaker 1: Married and and and and the advice is do you
need to pull your money? And he's like the f
I do you know what I mean? Because it's so imbalanced.
You dealt with couples in that situation where it's like
super weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what's funny. So the vast majority of
our clients are not that.
Speaker 3: We just have a lot of the millionaire next door,
blue collar millionaire types, entrepreneurs like that's that's the major Now.
I have seen some scenarios though, through inherited money where
somebody walks in with a lot and somebody walks in
with nothing right, and that creates an interesting imbalance. There's
two schools of thought on it, right, there's the whole
Prenup school of thought. There's the whole not Prenup school
of thought. I don't really I've been round and round
about that. I wish I had a really firm opinion.
I've part of me goes, you know, I don't think
that we should look at that. And if I'm marrying
the right person, it's somebody that obviously probably shares my faith,
and so my faith is going to be in God
and I don't need to preen up and all.
Speaker 2: But we've all seen.
Speaker 3: Those cases too, right, So you know, I my feeling
on it. What I advise people is like, hey, if
it's it, I you know, I throw a prenup on there.
Speaker 2: I hate saying that, but I would. It was so
much easier for my wife and I because we were
both bro we'd have shake you know what I mean.
We brought that work in. Like all I brought in
was debt. You know. They were like you thought a
will and I was like, what four right?
Speaker 4: I can totally relate to that time when you when
you come to the same place, it totally makes a difference.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my wife knows that she can have my five CDs,
you know, or you to make a whipple. So when
you got buddies, did have gone into the U not
to you know, not not not to anything they did wrong. Uh,
just good guys and didn't get didn't start getting married
and you're looking around that way or ran into the right, girl,
the thirty five thirty seven.
Speaker 2: They'd had really big success.
Speaker 3: Earlier in their careers, you know, and they were bringing
eight ten twelve million dollar net worse into a into
a into a marriage. And you know, the one thing
I've seen though, that I've seen consistently is it's whoever's
bringing the money into the marriage. Who whenever there is
a big pushback, whenever somebody refuses to sign a prenup
or there's a big what to do around a prenup,
it never lasts, right, And it's where the people, the
ones that last are the ones that, oh, yeah, I
don't care, and then.
Speaker 4: Just right, yeah, right, so what do I care?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And then I know one of my buddies that five
years into it, he tore the prenup up, you know,
for just because he was like, this was so stupid.
Speaker 2: I I should be worried about me, not her. You know,
that was like that was his why, you know, just
his Yeah.
Speaker 3: She's one of the she's one of the kindest, most
beautiful people, you know, soul in the world. And so
but yeah, he came to that realization and and but yeah,
I I when you see the pushback, that's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a red because again it's it's being misaligned
and so like being aligned in your probably and your
goals and all that seems to be the winning key, yeah.
Speaker 3: In the end, and the other thing too. And I
think everybody knows this, but I can't. I was just
preaching this to a young cousin of mine last night,
that debt day out of debt, right, only debt you
should be carrying is on appreciating assets. Look like, I
really want to write a like a book, like not really,
I don't have time, right, and.
Speaker 2: I probably nobody read it.
Speaker 3: But if I was gonna ride a bike, you'd be like,
look poor, right, just because all this debt that people get,
if you look at it, it's so it's so illusory.
It's just to look apart, right, And everybody's got the
same range rover, so you don't even shold, Like what's
the point?
Speaker 4: I totally agree.
Speaker 3: I built Bulwark in a two thousand and one four
door Forge Focus hatchback yep. And I remember I pulled
into a client's house was like an eight million dollars
spread on the lake, and he goes, man, I thought
you'd be like pulling up in at Bentley and I go.
Speaker 2: You ever see me pulling at Bentley, move your money immediately? Exactly?
I watch right.
Speaker 4: I agree completely. I will always drive use cars always.
Speaker 3: Even my new, even my new like my first new car,
because I promised myself once we once we uh, when
I didn't have to commute and go meet clients any more,
that I'd get a new car.
Speaker 2: I still could. I got a one year old car
with sixteenth thousand. I can't. I can't do it. Yeah,
I just because I'm.
Speaker 3: They're identical, right, and this one saves me thirty grand.
Speaker 2: I just I'm.
Speaker 4: Toochering exactly the same way. I can't do it.
Speaker 2: It's we're value investors, you know, right? Exactly?
Speaker 1: Well, Zach, where can people find out more about how
they can get your financial and also marital counseling advice?
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm gonna get my wife's gonna love this episode.
Uh go to Berkcapitalmanagement dot com and uh, you can
just google Bowark Capital Management.
Speaker 2: We're not tough to find.
Speaker 3: And we are coming up on twenty years so next month, yeah,
next month, so it will be twenty years.
Speaker 1: Doing financial planning since you were four.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my parents would say that's that's the case. Yeah,
I love it all right, thanks ladies. Reservices offered through
Trek Financial loc and SEC Registered Investment Advisor. The opinions
expressed in this programmer for general informational purposes only and
are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for
any individual or on any specific security. Any references to
performance of security so it thought to be materially accurate
and actual performance may different.
Speaker 2: Investments involved risk and are not guaranteed. Past performance doesn't
guarantee future results.
Speaker 3: Track twenty four to three, Zeroly