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Speaker 1: Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster

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movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Brittany Brownfield and

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I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by.

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Speaker 2: Ben Stover, individual therapist.

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Speaker 3: Hannah Espinoza, marriage and family therapists.

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Speaker 1: We're all licensed clinical professional counselors also known as therapists,

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who practice out of Chicago. Even though we are licensed

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mental health professionals, this podcast is purely for entertainment purposes

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and to fulfill our love of dissecting pop culture and

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all forms. Please remember that, even though we are all

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licensed therapists, we aren't your therapist.

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Speaker 3: If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find

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a local mental health provider.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's loud as hell.

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Speaker 3: Happy Holidays. Today we're going to be doing the Family Stone.

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We are recording over zoom, which we have not done

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in maybe two years. We're also recording today without Ben.

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Just happened to be the way things fell, So we

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don't have our tech person. So if this sounds like shit,

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that might be why. But hopefully in editing.

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Speaker 2: Everything will be just fine. But just want to let

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you guys know.

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Speaker 1: That, Yeah, come to us with a spirit of generosity.

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Yes please, just in case this episode sounds a little

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different on the tech end.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like The Family Stone has been requested

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a couple of different times.

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Speaker 2: In general.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going to talk a little bit about what

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the movie is about. The Family Stone is about a

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family that is meeting the eldest son's girlfriend at Christmas

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while also the mother. We found out that her cancer

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is back and that it is terminal from the way

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that everyone's acting in the in the movie, So that's

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what the movie is about. We're going to talk about

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Everett and Meredith's relationship first, and then we're going to

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talk about family dynamics of course and treatment, and then

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final thoughts. So the first thing we wanted to talk

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about and jump into is Meredith and what in the

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fuck is her deal?

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because the I guess the conflict of the

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movie is, yeah, you said, Everett's bringing home his girlfriend

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Meredith and nobody likes her, and the only person who's

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met her before the movie begins is the youngest sister,

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well sibling, Amy, and she does not like Meredith at

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all and is talking like mad shit before Meredith even

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shows up. So or maybe right is Meredith shows up. Yeah,

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so Meredith is I'm gonna put on my therapist cap

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because I want to be very compassionate and that Meredith

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comes off as a stereotypical neurotic person. And I guess

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I should say too that neurotics not really a word

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that therapists use. So when I say the word neurotic,

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I feel like she's like the Hollywood version, like the

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storytelling version of absolutely a person who's erotic, which is

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a person who is uptight, anxiety ridden, inflexible, a lot

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of little quirks. She does a throat clearing thing like

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that that drives Amy insane with everybody else, and she

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is introduced into the story as someone that we are

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supposed to not like. Yeah, and so looking but looking

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at her as a therapist. It was interesting watching this

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as a therapist because I've only I've watched the movie

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a bajillion times. Most people, it's very much a modern

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Christmas classic that's that's held on and I'll be a

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crystal movie people watch forever and ever and ever, and

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trying to see Meredith through the eyes of a therapist,

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not just someone watching it and being like, oh, she's

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so annoying. Was interesting for me because I was putting

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more of her behavior through the realm of anxiety and

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rigidity versus, Wow, what a fucking bitch, because I think

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that's what you're supposed to think about her at from

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the start of the movie. That is, her role is

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to be this like frigid, waspy bitch who doesn't understand

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our family and has all these rigid conservative ideas about

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sleeping in.

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Speaker 2: The same bed and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at her from someone who is

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trying to impress the family, Honestly, the way I was

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kind of thinking of her differently, even if I take

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out the anxiety piece, which I'm sure we'll get into more,

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is it makes me curious about how she might be

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doing that thing that people do where they assume every

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family to a certain extent, has the same values that

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they have, and so if I want to impress your family,

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I'm going to subscribe to the values that I think

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pleases parents, Like the not sleeping in the same bed

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seem like a real example of that, Like the best

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example of that, where she's refusing to sleep in the

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same bed as ever it even though they are in

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their late thirties early forties late thirties is generous, and

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the whole family, including the parents, think it's ridiculous that

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she's insisting upon this, but she can't let it go

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to the point that she puts a me out of

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her bedroom, which doesn't help. And in those moments, I

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was like, why would someone do something like that if

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I'm thinking of this as a therapist, And I'm like,

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she must really that must be something that her family

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cares about, her family's origin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I feel like that's something.

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Speaker 3: The way that she felt almost like disgusted and like

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not this is not proper, Like this is not proper,

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I should not be doing this felt very old fashioned

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in a way that it that I feel like she's

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supposed to be a modern woman, and so that kind

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of felt kind of off, but makes a lot of

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sense when we think about it coming from her family

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and her family of origin.

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Speaker 2: And also I think something else.

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Speaker 3: That Meredith's character has is she really wants to be respectful.

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Speaker 1: Yes, she very seems to prioritize the value of that,

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like politeness, manners like there's a way to do things, Yes,

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like her being fully dressed at all times in the

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house she's in heels in the morning. I think the

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most casual thing she wears pre getting shit faced with

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Ben is a black on black outfit or like workout outfit.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know if it's that.

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Speaker 1: It probably is slacks and a nice long sleeve shirt

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from like not even Anne tail or, probably something nicer

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than in tailor, so probably a brand I don't even

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know because I'm not rich. Yeah, exactly like something she

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got at Nord Shrums.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: But but she her hair's always done. She is never

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out of place. When they're at the dinner and they're

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eating pizza in the living room, she's wearing a full suit.

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Speaker 2: She doesn't she seems uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't eat anything, which could be her not wanting

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to eat with her hands in front of these people

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that she's to make a good impression off like, she

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has this very rigid idea of how you make a

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good impression, and the irony is is that it's so

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rigid that it ends up causing a lot of problems

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and she ends up making a really bad impression because

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she can't flex this tight, tight, tight, tight idea, which

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does make me so curious what her parents and her

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family's like if she's from Bedford, Massachusetts, which I don't

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know anything about, but the sort of assumption made in

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the movie is that that means something that she's from there.

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And also the stereotype about New England is like that waspy,

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frigid oo upper class, like everything's done this very correct,

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classist kind of way. And so my assumption is is

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that a lot of this comes from that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely well, And I feel like I feel like

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it definitely means something that she's from Bedford, because she

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brings it up a couple of times, and I feel

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like and I feel like she comes from because I

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think and tell me what you think about this, because

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I feel like with Everett and Meredith that they actually

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both come from families that have a similar amount of

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like wealth and comfort, yeah, in their life, Like it

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seems like it's pretty consistent, especially considering that Julie could

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take the bus to get there, which makes me feel

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like they don't even live that far away from each other.

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Speaker 2: I don't really know where she's coming from, where she's.

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Speaker 3: Coming from their family, Chris, Oh, okay, you would know.

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Speaker 1: Just everyone knows. Hannah has seen this movie about a

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thousand times. So I will defer to you, Hannah, as

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the expert of the facts of this movie, Thank you

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very much. I will take on the honor as requested. Yes,

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so I live close enough to travel by bus last

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minute too, Like, it's not like her sister took a

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Greyhound for hours and hours and hours and hours. Yeah,

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I feel like it was like a four hour, three

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to four hour like trip is all it is. So

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Also like they grew up in similar areas with a

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similar amount of wealth in their life, So I think

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also Meredith is also making a lot of assumptions that

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his family is going to be like hers. Yeah, and

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also how when she is complaining about Amy to Ben

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and she's like, I took Amy to the nicest restaurant

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in like New York City and she didn't appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Which I thinks, which in one way is just.

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Speaker 1: A general thing. I think people do that a lot.

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They want to impress people with status stuff. And yeah,

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also connect that to what we're talking about, which is

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that Meredith has this rigid idea about what's.

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Speaker 2: Impressive mm hmmm.

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Speaker 1: And how, yeah, how you impress, how you make a

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good first impression, which this family you and I were

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talking about this is they're watching it. You're right, like,

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I think this family is also very rich, well, very comfortable,

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yes how I would think of it, but more the

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liberal upper upstate New York, liberal upstate New York. Maybe

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they're all like academics in some realm because.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well because she calls Kelly professor and so I

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feel like that's because that's what he used to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, mm hm.

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Speaker 1: And so they have that sort of vibe of people

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who are almost like performatively progressive, yes, like her being

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like I was on my ends and knees praying quote

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a gay son. It's that that I feel like is

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a perfect encapsulation of that type of rich white person.

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And and on the outside though, you're right, like Meredith's

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family and ever it's family if we're if our assumptions

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are correct, are probably very similar on paper.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say so.

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Speaker 3: So I feel like her making those assumptions makes a

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lot of sense because they do come from a support place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And as we'll talk about in a little bit, Everet

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is contributing to this assumption, if if our theory is correct,

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and that he is also doing that very posh Manhattan

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like he's wearing a tie next to her while she's

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wearing that suit, not eating her pizza, and his parents

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was whole family gets on his ass for wearing a

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tie when they're all in the house just chilling out.

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And what also doesn't help Meredith is that Everett is

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also adopting more of her sensibilities the way that he dresses,

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you know, the way that he seems to be with her,

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And so if she's assuming that his family is like him,

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then of course she would assume that they're more like

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her family. But you can see right away in the

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scene where they are eating pizza that his family gets like,

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in my opinion.

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Speaker 2: Too agitated.

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Speaker 1: But we'll talk about more about the fact that he's

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wearing a tie next to her wearing her full suit,

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so he is he is also not acting in a

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way that his family recognizes. So I also can give

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Meredith a bit of the benefit of out in Matt

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context too, that she showed up a thinking one thing,

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and then it's everything that she's doing that she thinks

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as good as like totally biffing it, and then that

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ratches up the tension. And then she does that thing

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a lot of people do where they double down instead

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of changing course. Yes, I think a prime example of

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that is my least favorite scene in the whole movie,

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because it makes me want to crawl out of my

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fucking skin is when they're at the dinner table and

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she I get what I think she thinks she's trying

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to say about having a gay child, but she fucking

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biffs it so hard, art so old, and then she

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can't shut up when she couldn't get clear signals from

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the family to stop, truly, And that just felt like

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a heightening of what has been happening for her this

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whole time. And I think that's a good way to

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segue into well, what is also a problem for Meredith.

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Like we were talking about her rigidity, which I'm curious

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from you, like, where do you think that rigidity comes from,

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because that rigidity isn't so much what we've been talking

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about so far. That rigidity feels like something different. I

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feel like her rigidity comes from wanting and needing to

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have some sense of control. Whether that's I think we

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get a pretty good glimpse of that, even just in

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the beginning the opening scene of the film, where she's

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on the phone with other people and she is demanding

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that they change their holiday schedules to follow up with

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whatever she needed them to do, and also her having

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to something else that she says in that scene is well,

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I want to see the PowerPoint before it gets sent out,

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Like again, like this sense of I have to have

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control of things. If I have control of things, then

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everything will go okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, everything has to go on this way.

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Speaker 1: And when she interrupts Everett to say what color the

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scarf should be for his sister instead of the one

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he picked out, even though he knows his sister and

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she's only met her once, exists like uber controlling nature

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that You're right, a lot of people get stuck into

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because it is trying to gain control. Which is a

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big facet of what I think is going on with

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her is that she is a very high functioning, anxious person. Yes, absolutely,

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and I don't know if that is from her her

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family system.

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Speaker 2: I also assume that she's the oldest daughter. Yeah, I

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assume that's just the two of them, her and Julie. Yeah, yeah,

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me too.

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Speaker 3: But I assume that she's the oldest and that she

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really a lot of times I feel like I find,

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especially in oldest siblings, this sense of perfectionism in order

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to keep everything quote unquote okay no matter if no

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matter what that looks like like that can look like anything.

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And so I really feel like And also I think

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Meredith also has had the experience that a lot of

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people have, which is people like it when you have

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a lot of control over things like people. That is people,

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you're successful, you know how to hold a meeting, you

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know how to connect to these different people. You know,

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she went over you know Everett's uh, how they might yeah,

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how they met, which I think is wild. So and

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then I think, yeah, I'll go ahead.

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Speaker 2: Sorry.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's why I said high functioning anxious person,

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because you're right, anxiety can serve purposes. I mean, technically,

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anxiety does serve a purpose. That's why it exists. And

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for some people, as we've talked about many times on

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this podcast, the anxiety starts to turn a corner and

287
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become too much. It is calling too many of the shots.

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And there's a good amount of people where they you

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can be very successful and have anxiety. And then also

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you can overidentify with the behaviors that our anxious behaviors,

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like over identify them being why you're successful. I would

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argue that high functioning successful people who are anxious can

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be the hardest sometimes to work with because they are,

294
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for sure, which I get, that their anxious, controlling behaviors

295
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are why they are successful, and that if they stop

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doing those things that something bad will happen, whatever that means.

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A lot of times there are exact people I'd be like,

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what do you think you're key being at bay by

299
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being so controlling, being such a perfectionist, working so hard,

300
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being so rigid, And it's not really that those behaviors

301
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are why you're successful. It's just that you don't know

302
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what it's like to not do those things, and maybe

303
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you would be just as successful if you didn't do

304
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those things. And then also maybe you would feel better overall.

305
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Because Marath isn't happy, no's for fucking sure, Yeah she's

306
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I mean she's anxious all the time.

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Speaker 3: I think she's anxious all the time. And that high

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functioning I think is absolutely right. And since Ben isn't here,

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I'm going to miss up. In parts work we talk

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about there's firefighters, and there's managers, and managers help us

311
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do things, managers help us follow through with things, and

312
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all often our managers get us a lot of praise

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from the outside because we can do all the things

314
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like how did you do? You know, how did you

315
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go to grad school and work a job and work

316
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,599
a second job like how we're And again, not that

317
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Meredith would have to do any of these things, but

318
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in terms of that's how that's a part of how

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our system works inside well.

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Speaker 1: And also her being a woman and what I assume

321
00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:30,680
is probably a pretty male dominated field. That's just because

322
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,720
this movie is from what like twenty two thousand and

323
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:40,480
six roughly, Yeah, you know, and this probably does serve

324
00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:47,279
her to be very pleasing. And also I'm sure she

325
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probably was also the person who worked over the holidays

326
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instead of going home if that needed to be done.

327
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Maybe that's why he doesn't give as much of a

328
00:20:58,519 --> 00:21:01,839
shit about other people having to change their schedules.

329
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 2: Because I'm sure done it.

330
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, if they push back, she was like, well, this

331
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:06,640
is part of being in the field, This is part

332
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of the work.

333
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Speaker 2: This is how you climb to the top.

334
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Speaker 1: All that like corporate productivity bs, which someone like Meredith

335
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:19,720
can thrive in on paper because they are able to

336
00:21:19,799 --> 00:21:23,640
adapt to it and to be whatever they need and

337
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,720
to work, work, work, work, work, and you're right, like,

338
00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:29,599
it's very people pleasy. So then it also sends people

339
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that message that they're doing the right thing. So then

340
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when they come into therapy, it does feel incorrect when

341
00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:40,960
the therapist is saying, maybe you shouldn't do those things,

342
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because because they have been told that they've got Yeah,

343
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,240
you're right, they've gotten a lot of praise for working late,

344
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working hard, making themselves fucking crazy, burning themselves out. Especially

345
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I assume in whatever field they're in. It seems like

346
00:21:57,759 --> 00:21:59,640
this high end corporate field of.

347
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Speaker 2: Some sort something.

348
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, which, like I said, those things get really rewarded.

349
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That kind of behavior gets really rewarded. And then she's

350
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:09,640
doing that toxic thing, which is passing down that expectation

351
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:14,680
to the staff below her because that's what she did,

352
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and that's just how things get done, and you have

353
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to prioritize work, work, work. Even while she's she probably

354
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,480
feels like she's earned her ability to not have to

355
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,759
do that anymore, But then she does feel like someone

356
00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:30,519
who probably would take a meeting at the Stone's house.

357
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, she had to, absolutely, absolutely, I totally agree with that,

358
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and I feel like and I feel like one of

359
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,240
the things that Kelly says in the film that I

360
00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:48,519
think is very poignant is that Meredith doesn't know who

361
00:22:48,599 --> 00:22:55,720
she is. She's so busy being the super in control

362
00:22:55,799 --> 00:22:58,759
person that I think it's hard to know like who

363
00:22:58,839 --> 00:23:02,000
she is underneath thought of that, it's like this exterior

364
00:23:02,039 --> 00:23:03,759
that she has to portray to the whole world.

365
00:23:04,279 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: Well, when you're basing yourself and whether you're doing the

366
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,319
right thing or the wrong thing by other people's opinion

367
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,839
and approval of you, you don't know who you are.

368
00:23:16,519 --> 00:23:19,519
You're not looking inward for that, you're looking outward. And

369
00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:21,759
a lot of kids are raised that way, you know.

370
00:23:21,759 --> 00:23:23,559
If we're going off of our assumption that she's part

371
00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:27,480
of this like really waspy, rigid, toity toity family, so

372
00:23:27,559 --> 00:23:33,079
much of that is also appearance based, status based, manners

373
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,880
based how you look like someone like Amy is so

374
00:23:39,559 --> 00:23:43,480
challenging to someone like Meredith, and the way that your

375
00:23:43,519 --> 00:23:48,960
family moves in that Amy is so messy and dresses

376
00:23:49,599 --> 00:23:55,759
crazy and yeah, isn't worried about being likable, Maybe not

377
00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,480
worried enough being likable. Another example, though, of what we're

378
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,519
talking about with family culture stuff too, is how uncomfortable

379
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,400
Meredith is with when they're talking about a May's sex

380
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,960
life and how she lost her virginity, and Meredith looks

381
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:11,640
like she's gonna like.

382
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,039
Speaker 2: Barf, yeah, basically, And I think that's.

383
00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: Not necessarily because of what they're talking about in general,

384
00:24:18,039 --> 00:24:20,400
but I think because like, families don't talk like that.

385
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,000
Oh my god, I can't believe you're talking about something sexual, yeah,

386
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,839
in the family, even though everyone is an adult like well

387
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,599
like well into adulthood mm hmm, which, like I said,

388
00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:40,640
it further pushes on my assumption that there's all these rules, yes,

389
00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:42,519
and that Meredith has been a very good job of

390
00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:45,839
following all the rules, and then she comes into a

391
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,079
family that has very different rules but still rules. Every

392
00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:51,759
family has rules, very different rules, and she can't fucking

393
00:24:51,759 --> 00:24:56,200
figure it out that. I think Meredith is a great

394
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,599
example of how someone can really be quote unquote successful

395
00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:06,039
in one factor of their life but not be functioning

396
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:11,079
well in another factor of their life. Like I believe

397
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:15,000
that she is like dynamite successful in her field. She

398
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:17,640
probably makes a shit ton of money, Like I don't

399
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,359
doubt any of that, she has nice clothes.

400
00:25:20,319 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: All that kind of shit.

401
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:23,759
Speaker 1: I'm surprised those heels that she has in the movie

402
00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:26,799
don't have red bottoms on them, to be honest, and

403
00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:31,200
maybe they couldn't get the Louis Baton branding, but maybe

404
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,680
she I think she does really suffer socially, and I

405
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,400
think that's a part of that rigidity too. I mean,

406
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,039
that's what the price you pay a lot of times

407
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:51,000
with being high functioning anxious is that you can you

408
00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:55,200
will most likely suffer in another part of your life.

409
00:25:55,319 --> 00:25:57,599
And I think for her it is socially. And I

410
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,400
also think that that throat clearing tick she has as

411
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,920
is a manifestation of how anxious she is all the time. Yes,

412
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:12,559
it's almost like a stemming tick anxiety thing. And I

413
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:15,079
wonder if she does it more in these social settings

414
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:21,599
where she doesn't feel as competent. Yes, I'm like, you

415
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,799
probably did it a lot more in that dinner with Amy.

416
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,119
And that's why Amy noticed It's so bad.

417
00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, why it was so prominent because she was so

418
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,440
anxious meeting Amy.

419
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: And so when I get people in my office who

420
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,319
are high functioning and anxious, it usually is for one

421
00:26:38,319 --> 00:26:41,279
of these reasons we're actually seeing with Meredith, I have

422
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,720
all this success, I have all this money, I'm on

423
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,880
paper got my shit together, and yet I can't keep

424
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:54,200
a relationship, or I can't get friendship as an adult,

425
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,200
or I'm fucking miserable all the time even though I

426
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:03,000
shouldn't be that. The long and the short of it

427
00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:06,839
is that playing the game doesn't actually work out for

428
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,160
most people. It can get you success in one part

429
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,599
of your life, but like I said, her an ability

430
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,400
to practice more flexibility and to give up control, we're

431
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:22,279
seeing it impact her relationships absolutely, and even the fact

432
00:27:22,279 --> 00:27:24,720
that the only person, which could just be the movie,

433
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,599
but the only person she talks about from a friend

434
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,279
perspective is her sister, Like we don't hear any friendships,

435
00:27:31,319 --> 00:27:33,440
Like we don't really know anything about her social life

436
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,839
outside of her sister and her partner. And even how

437
00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:42,240
she won Everett was by demonstrating her value in that

438
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,720
very rigid way that she has been demonstrating value.

439
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,759
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, and so also her not being able to

440
00:27:50,759 --> 00:27:53,440
have any insight or awareness that she has other things

441
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,079
that are positive. But I do think I think you're

442
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,759
absolutely right. I feel like she struggles the most socially,

443
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,160
even when we just think about her telling the story

444
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:08,240
of how they met and how she wasn't waiting for

445
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,559
people to ask questions. It was just very she was monologuing.

446
00:28:11,839 --> 00:28:16,519
She was literally modeling a script. Yes, like like when

447
00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:17,599
you and I are watching it.

448
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,279
Speaker 1: I was positing a theory that she might be a

449
00:28:21,319 --> 00:28:27,079
autism spectrum and part of that theory was that she

450
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,920
finally kind of opens up socially one she's able to

451
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,319
follow a script, which is something that's not atypical with

452
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,920
someone on the spectrum who struggles socially, is that if

453
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:44,440
they have to be more off the cuff improvy socially,

454
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,960
they can really struggle. But if there is a story,

455
00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:51,480
a script, as we say, that they can follow that

456
00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:54,200
gives them comfort and then they're kind of able to

457
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:59,640
flourish in a social situation or in a role like

458
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,200
we were saying. The way that she met Everett is

459
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:06,480
she got to stay in that role in which she

460
00:29:06,519 --> 00:29:10,720
feels very competent and safe. But this family will not

461
00:29:10,839 --> 00:29:16,640
allow her to stay in that role. And from jump,

462
00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:19,119
she looks like she's gonna rip her fucking skin off,

463
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:20,799
and reason.

464
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, she really really does.

465
00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:27,759
Speaker 3: Do you think that a part of this is the

466
00:29:27,799 --> 00:29:32,480
family wanting her to be more vulnerable And I'm not

467
00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:34,640
really not being able to. I mean, we can talk

468
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,160
about it more and we get the family stuff.

469
00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: I think with the family.

470
00:29:40,599 --> 00:29:42,599
Speaker 3: Like that's a part of what the family can't handle

471
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:48,079
is that she feels not genuine.

472
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: And that could definitely it, Like the family could definitely

473
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,599
be because I think everyone knows how that feels when

474
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,279
someone is I mean, we have a word for it,

475
00:29:55,319 --> 00:29:58,799
someone who's a try hard. When someone is trying too hard,

476
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,480
it makes most people will feel uncomfortable if they have

477
00:30:01,559 --> 00:30:06,400
any sort of social intuition of their own. But again,

478
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,039
I don't like that it feels like the family is

479
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,440
punishing her for that instead of trying to meet her

480
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,519
where she's at. Because as much as she's stuck in

481
00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:22,599
a role of her own making, they also stick her

482
00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:25,039
in that role too, And then they're punishing her for

483
00:30:25,119 --> 00:30:27,680
being in that role, which is shitty.

484
00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I'm not an.

485
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: Amereicith apologist necessarily because she does put her fucking foot

486
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:39,400
in it. But looking at therapist's perspective, and I think

487
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,440
what also tells a lot about her rigidity and her

488
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,000
maybe lack of social intelligence or like innate social skills.

489
00:30:47,359 --> 00:30:49,000
I think she doesn't have great social skills I'll just

490
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,640
say that off the rip, whether that's from anxiety, whether

491
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:57,640
it's she is on aufics and spectrum, whatever, she struggles

492
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,119
to adapt socially, she can't turn it when she's in

493
00:31:02,119 --> 00:31:04,640
the family, like she can't do that thing a lot

494
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,319
of people can do, which is, oh, it's more relaxed here. Okay,

495
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,039
So I'll maybe I'll take my blazer off, maybe I'll

496
00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:15,480
let my hair down. Metaphorically and literally, I'm uncomfortable sleeping

497
00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:17,759
in the same room as Everett. But that does seem

498
00:31:17,759 --> 00:31:21,400
to be how this family goes, and so YadA YadA.

499
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:22,279
Speaker 2: And also what I.

500
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: Think is a piece of evidence towards what I'm speculating

501
00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:29,720
is that as soon as it gets really uncomfortable.

502
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: She fucking leaves.

503
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,559
Speaker 1: She goes to get a place at a hotel, which

504
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:40,400
is such a wild like declaration of war, almost like

505
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,079
in a situation and trying to make a good impression

506
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,839
on your partner's family. And as soon as there's like

507
00:31:47,839 --> 00:31:50,079
a few things in a row that make you uncomfortable,

508
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,720
you bolt.

509
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: Like literally literally and utterly running.

510
00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: I'm running away because Amy was mean to me in

511
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,000
the kitchen. It might also be to be quite frank

512
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,880
if she's only from a family of like one other

513
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,519
sibling who's a girl, like two sisters, I imagine I

514
00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:09,920
don't know what it's like to just be in a

515
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,400
family with another sister. That was my fantasy growing up.

516
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:15,440
I come from a family more like this movie where

517
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,440
I have six younger siblings and they're all dudes. Where

518
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:24,359
the way that Amy is mean, Amy is mean, Yeah

519
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:30,720
she is, and she's also the fact that Meredith can't

520
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:34,319
shake it off or put it into context, I think

521
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,720
says a lot about maybe that she grew up in

522
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,359
an environment where there wasn't all this like sibling chaotic

523
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,599
kind of getting up each other's asses. Like I grew

524
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,119
up in that family where you tease the shit out

525
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,519
of each other, and there's a lot of like kind

526
00:32:50,559 --> 00:32:52,200
of being hard on each other, and that's just part

527
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,400
of it. There's so many have siblings all growing up

528
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,359
really close in age, where you do take out a

529
00:32:56,359 --> 00:32:58,920
lot of life on each other. And so she doesn't

530
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:05,240
also have any callous around that, Like she doesn't know

531
00:33:05,279 --> 00:33:08,839
how to deal with Amy, and so she just bolts yep,

532
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,480
which I don't know what purpose that serves other than

533
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,079
I need to get out of this uncomfortable place.

534
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:21,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just seems like a big reaction. It just

535
00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:24,160
seems like a really big reaction to something.

536
00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:25,279
Speaker 2: Because.

537
00:33:26,319 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, she's still spending almost

538
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,160
all of her time at the house.

539
00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:36,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think she does.

540
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, but she only goes there at night, oh yeah,

541
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,839
to go to sleep. So again, like, even though she's

542
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,839
sleeping somewhere else, she's not necessarily getting away from the

543
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,880
situation that she's finding herself in.

544
00:33:49,359 --> 00:33:52,119
Speaker 2: But I think maybe being.

545
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,119
Speaker 3: Out of the house helps her probably feel less anxious.

546
00:33:55,599 --> 00:33:59,599
Speaker 1: Well, also, if it's more her just being like no

547
00:33:59,599 --> 00:34:03,160
one is house is following the script of how you

548
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,880
do this? I don't know how to make it work.

549
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,719
So I just got to get the fuck out of here.

550
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,440
Because also if I'm and now that we're talking about

551
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,159
this is I'm thinking about this specific situation. Amy is

552
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:20,880
a bitch. She's mean, but she's not really being that

553
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:25,360
mean in the moment. She's just saying I'm fine, I'm fine.

554
00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:28,280
So she's not even being like, you fucking bitch, you

555
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:33,119
took my bed. She's just being cold and bitchy. Yeah,

556
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:35,719
And the fact that that's like the final straw from

557
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:41,360
Theredith is telling I think of her, Yeah, her like

558
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,280
discomfort and rigidity, and she can't control the situation. She

559
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,840
can't be good enough to fit in this family, so

560
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,920
I gotta go. I don't know how to swerve, which

561
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,920
is where like people do get stuck. Like I said,

562
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,039
there are certain parts of life, like work, especially from

563
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,440
the corporate field, where you can get in this lockdown

564
00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:08,159
rigid almost like robody, vibe and.

565
00:35:08,119 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: Do really well.

566
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: The problem socially, though, is that it's like you're doing

567
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,400
improv with a billion other people, and it's chaotic and

568
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,840
it's messy, and it's emotional, and people aren't going to

569
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,639
say necessarily what you think they're going to say. You

570
00:35:22,679 --> 00:35:28,760
can't rehearse for that part of life, and that is

571
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,320
why a lot of times, that's why people will come

572
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,960
into therapy who present like Meredith absolutely.

573
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,559
Speaker 2: So, is there.

574
00:35:36,519 --> 00:35:40,039
Speaker 1: Anything more we want to say about Meredith before we

575
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:41,920
switch to Everett.

576
00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:45,679
Speaker 3: No, I don't think I have anything else to share

577
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:46,920
about Meredith at this time.

578
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 2: Okay, let's take a break here and we'll be back

579
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,360
to talk aboutever it. Okay.

580
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: So the other part of this dynamic is Everett, And

581
00:35:57,159 --> 00:36:02,000
as we were saying before, Everett is also playing a

582
00:36:02,119 --> 00:36:05,880
role with Meredith. He's kind of doing that thing people

583
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,719
will do. It seems like where they match their partner

584
00:36:11,079 --> 00:36:14,800
and what, Like I said, what makes us think that

585
00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:19,559
is because his family gets so enraged.

586
00:36:20,559 --> 00:36:21,639
Speaker 2: At him wearing a.

587
00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: Tie, as if he came home wearing a conservative flag shirt. Yes,

588
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:34,639
in their progressive home. How dare you? We're a Cardigan household,

589
00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:35,920
not a tie household, you know.

590
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:38,119
Speaker 2: And I feel like.

591
00:36:38,119 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 3: It really shows that Everett is not who the family.

592
00:36:43,199 --> 00:36:46,119
He's not acting or looking like the effort that they know.

593
00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we just get like a snapshot of this

594
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,519
family just like a few days before Christmas, and it

595
00:36:57,599 --> 00:36:59,639
does seem to be that the way that ever it

596
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:05,440
is showing up is really a typical. And I don't

597
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,039
know if that's also why the family is so mean.

598
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:11,480
Like as much as I love this family, like they're

599
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:17,199
they're very like I'm thinking about how much they feel

600
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,159
everyone feels like they're allowed to tell Everett what they

601
00:37:20,199 --> 00:37:26,400
think about his relationship and his life choices. Which, Yeah,

602
00:37:26,599 --> 00:37:29,519
the kindest read I could take of that is what

603
00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:34,800
you're saying that he's acting so atypical to the effort

604
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,199
they know that. It's almost like they're trying to save

605
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,639
him from a cult.

606
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they feel very they feel very.

607
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 3: Scared, very scared that he's going to do something that

608
00:37:50,519 --> 00:37:53,960
like is not going to make him happy. And I'm

609
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,760
really curious because what I feel like, and we talked

610
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,519
about this a little bit while we were recording, I

611
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:04,800
kind of feel like, I think that Everett has matched

612
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,519
his partner, matched Meredith for over the time that they've

613
00:38:08,519 --> 00:38:12,159
been dating. And I think that maybe he has pulled

614
00:38:12,199 --> 00:38:16,199
away from the family, which can be really common in

615
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:21,519
new relationships that somebody can just like not be as

616
00:38:21,559 --> 00:38:23,639
engaged with their family because they're spending all the time

617
00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:28,039
with this new person, right, And I feel like every

618
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,199
I feel like the family is mad at Everett and

619
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,639
they're taking it out on Meredith. Yeah, because she is

620
00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:39,800
the perfect scapegoat for she's the new person, she's she's

621
00:38:40,039 --> 00:38:42,079
they show her so uptight, like the fact that she

622
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:44,960
has her hair slicked back into a bond all the

623
00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:48,360
time and always has a suit on and is always

624
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,480
like she is the epitome of like uptight. Like I

625
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,639
think that's what they really wanted us to feel from her,

626
00:38:53,159 --> 00:38:57,000
And I feel like Everett's I feel like the family

627
00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:01,920
is thinks that Meredith is reason why Everett is changing.

628
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the dad seems to be the one who

629
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,280
clocks it in the movie when he says to the

630
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,760
mom when they're laying in bed, Everett doesn't know who

631
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:18,199
he is and that's really what's going on. Yeah, and

632
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,559
that's something to be curious about with ever it then

633
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,400
this approach they're all taking, which is, yeah, taking it

634
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:33,159
out on Meredith and telling him what he can't do,

635
00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:38,880
which historically, as most people know, it does not work,

636
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:45,039
especially if someone's doing something because they're feeling insecure or

637
00:39:45,079 --> 00:39:50,000
they're trying to prove something. Is you coming at them

638
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,000
hard or confrontational, even if it's a gentle confrontational like

639
00:39:54,159 --> 00:39:59,639
bad at the jewelry shop, because they're not really talking

640
00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:03,440
about what they're really worried about. They're just acting like

641
00:40:03,559 --> 00:40:10,440
Meredith is a monster, and she's not a monster. She's

642
00:40:10,599 --> 00:40:15,239
just very different than them, Yeah, exactly, and Everett's different

643
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,039
with her. But is Everett not a grown man with

644
00:40:19,119 --> 00:40:24,519
his own mind who is choosing someone like Meredith? And

645
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,079
if that is genuinely concerning, which I could definitely understand,

646
00:40:28,199 --> 00:40:30,360
it's more about talking to Everett, which is why I

647
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,320
like the scene later on in the movie when he's

648
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,400
with Diane Keaton his mom Sybil in the kitchen after

649
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:42,320
everything's gone to total shit, absolutely, and she does say

650
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:47,519
to him, Hey, you don't have to get married. That

651
00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:50,840
won't fix me being sick, and he does really break

652
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:56,280
down and start crying. And I don't I'd be curious if,

653
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,519
like everyone's real person that we talked to, like, how

654
00:40:58,599 --> 00:41:01,920
much that does play a part into why he's doing

655
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:07,599
the things he's doing, because it's not uncommon even when

656
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:11,679
I think anecdotally into people i've known over my life,

657
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:14,760
for when someone is sick, something's going on in the

658
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,119
family to speed up milestones absolutely because they want to

659
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,480
do those milestones before that parent dies.

660
00:41:23,159 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 2: Yep.

661
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,519
Speaker 3: They want them to be there. They want them to

662
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:28,239
be at the wedding, They want them to be a

663
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,199
part of it. They want to be able to have

664
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,760
those memories. And I think and I feel like, even

665
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,639
with Meredith's reaction to him asking and her kind of

666
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,400
surprise when she's talking to Julie, also feels like maybe

667
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,119
they haven't been dating that long. Hmmm, Like maybe they've

668
00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:48,840
been dating for like I assume dans under a year.

669
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,400
If that's the first Christmas. Yeah, she's meeting exactly exactly,

670
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:54,440
So I also feel like.

671
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: Her surprise is genuine.

672
00:42:01,639 --> 00:42:07,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also too, I could see Foreverett and he

673
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:09,400
doesn't know who he is. Thing that Kelly says his dad,

674
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:15,199
is that a newer thing? And is that a side

675
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,400
effect or like an effect of the mom having been

676
00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:21,519
very ill with cancer to the point where she got

677
00:42:21,559 --> 00:42:24,280
like a masectomy, right, And at that point in the movie,

678
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:27,960
Everett and most of the kids think that she's in remission.

679
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 2: But I can't imagine.

680
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,559
Speaker 1: I'd be curious how much that might have changed his

681
00:42:34,679 --> 00:42:39,719
behavior or his like trajectory, having gone through something where

682
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:45,559
someone he loves is vulnerable and isn't going to live forever,

683
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,519
and how that does fuck us up and that can

684
00:42:48,559 --> 00:42:52,000
create like an existential crisis. So it also makes me

685
00:42:52,119 --> 00:42:56,480
wonder if part of why Everett is acting the way

686
00:42:56,519 --> 00:42:58,239
he is and why the family is having such a

687
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,000
strong reaction, is this like very different.

688
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 2: Has Everett always been someone who doesn't seem to know

689
00:43:03,519 --> 00:43:03,840
who he.

690
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: Is, or in like the past like year or two,

691
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:11,239
has he really gone like corporate She'll who never comes

692
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:15,360
home and is shellacking the shit out of his hair. Like,

693
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,800
that's an interesting costuming makeup thing.

694
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:19,679
Speaker 2: Over the course of the movie.

695
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:21,599
Speaker 1: Is in the very first scene his hair is like

696
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,840
shellacked true his head and then by the end it's.

697
00:43:24,679 --> 00:43:28,679
Speaker 2: Truly sticking up at all ins yes, all over the place.

698
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: And how Yeah, it just makes me curious how much

699
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,320
that has an impact on him. And then was he

700
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,719
trying to meet the right girl and like and then

701
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,360
be have all his shit together before his mom dies

702
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,320
or did that just like because we know over the

703
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,440
course of the movie that she is gonna pass soon,

704
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,440
but even before that he didn't know that part right,

705
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,679
But I still think having a parent be that close

706
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,480
to that and even if they get better, it can't

707
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:07,840
put people through an existential freak out where then they're like, oh,

708
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,280
death Israel. My parents are going to die one day,

709
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,679
maybe sooner rather than later. So time to get my

710
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,519
shit together and cross all these things off of my

711
00:44:19,679 --> 00:44:21,480
list before that happens.

712
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so who.

713
00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: Knows when he met Meredith in the in the in

714
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,639
the in the stream of that situation going on too,

715
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,000
But did she meet him right when he was in

716
00:44:35,079 --> 00:44:38,440
this vulnerable who am I place?

717
00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:42,199
Speaker 3: Well, it sounds like, well they reference back to him

718
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,320
wanting to go to that monastery, and that's what he

719
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:47,119
was going to go to.

720
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: But then he met her. Oh yeah, and so you're right. Yeah.

721
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: So and then he brings that he's talking to Julie yeah,

722
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:00,920
which we will talk about in a moment. He also

723
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,320
brings that up there of like, yeah, like I was

724
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,199
going to go to see this place and then and

725
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,840
then I didn't And it's because he met Meredith.

726
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

727
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 3: And it feels like he just topped every part of

728
00:45:13,039 --> 00:45:16,760
himself inside and was just like, I'm going to be

729
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:22,039
this We're going to be this corporate power couple something.

730
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:28,280
Speaker 2: Some perfect a couple. Yeah, but that's not him. It's

731
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:34,320
not him, And I guess go ahead, well and even and.

732
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,079
Speaker 3: I know that we're going to go into family dynamics,

733
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:37,559
so I don't want to talk about it too much.

734
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:43,960
And when you have a family that is this side,

735
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,159
well any family really doesn't really matter what the size

736
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:51,400
of the family is. But and you have one person

737
00:45:51,519 --> 00:45:55,760
who is playing a completely different role than they've ever

738
00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,920
played before, the family claps back pretty motherfuck and hard.

739
00:46:02,519 --> 00:46:06,519
And I think that a part of that's a part

740
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:12,679
of the dynamic two. But again, everyone's projecting onto Meredith. Yeah,

741
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:15,320
because it almost feels like they can't be mad at Everett,

742
00:46:15,559 --> 00:46:17,840
or they feel like they can't be mad at him

743
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,800
for whatever reason. And that could be because they are

744
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:26,800
historically so close and so maybe they haven't really had

745
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,880
to have the kind of hard conversation slash fights that

746
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,159
can come out of this kind of change. And it

747
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:42,280
is easier and safer to blame Meredith than to be

748
00:46:42,599 --> 00:46:48,480
curious about why Everett is choosing someone like Meredith.

749
00:46:49,199 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

750
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,559
Speaker 1: And also, however, it is kind of he's a people

751
00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:59,119
pleaser too in that he I think he finally gets mad.

752
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,199
It's ma at the family. When does he get mad

753
00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:02,719
at the family?

754
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 3: He gets mad at the family when she leaves for

755
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,280
these when she leaves, Yeah, when she leaves for the hotel,

756
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,760
he comes into the kitchen and is like, you take

757
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,320
your fangs out of her. Yeah, and you're going to

758
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,280
realize that she's just a fucking person that you all

759
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:20,840
are meeting.

760
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. And he was right to be mad.

761
00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: He was like senergy sooner, Yes, and like you and

762
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:30,800
I have talked before, this is make me think of

763
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:36,559
crazy rich Asians. Oh, he didn't prep her enough for

764
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,760
meeting his family. He wasn't born yesterday. He knows how

765
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,199
his family is, he knows how Meredith is. He unless

766
00:47:46,199 --> 00:47:51,400
he's clueless, which he could be him not anticipating.

767
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 3: He does seem yeah, disconnected, And I don't know if

768
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:02,079
it's just because Dermot Dermot malro Me is so good

769
00:48:02,079 --> 00:48:05,079
at acting with his face, but I feel like he

770
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:09,719
seems really disconnected when he's with the family. He feels

771
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,440
really kind of like in his own like we really

772
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,400
only see him be comfortable when is when Ben says

773
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,719
something about his tie mm hmm, and like then like

774
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,920
he seems calm, like he points it out, like he

775
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,119
feels comfortable he's wearing this tie in front of his family,

776
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,199
but that there really aren't. He's pretty disconnected. And I

777
00:48:29,199 --> 00:48:33,599
feel like we see him be more connected with Julie

778
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,639
and were present with Julie, which is a bunch of

779
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:40,000
fucking bullshit. When me and Brittany were watching this, we

780
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,599
were both like, this has got to be just like

781
00:48:42,679 --> 00:48:44,760
a part of the movie, a part of everybody has

782
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,760
writing with somebody the writing of the film, because it

783
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,119
truly is insane, Well.

784
00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: That would happen.

785
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,039
Speaker 1: It's it's really doing a deserve a disservice to the

786
00:48:55,119 --> 00:49:00,280
character of Everett, because which is the rom com of all.

787
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,400
I'm not trying to be a bitch about that. Yeah,

788
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:07,159
but that idea, because that his arc is that he

789
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,519
just falls in love with a different person and kind

790
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:13,000
of takes on her personality exactly. But I guess they're

791
00:49:13,119 --> 00:49:18,679
arguing that her personality is more like what ever it

792
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,239
is authentically, But the arc that I would have loved

793
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,280
to see forever it is he figures out who he

794
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,679
is as a single man. Yea forever, maybe six months

795
00:49:30,679 --> 00:49:34,000
to a year, that's not crazy and.

796
00:49:34,199 --> 00:49:36,199
Speaker 2: Well, you finish your thought.

797
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: And instead it just feels like he imprints on another woman,

798
00:49:42,159 --> 00:49:47,360
which to me means that he's made no progress in

799
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,280
the course of the movie, even though the movie's trying

800
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,960
to tell us no, like this sister is his person

801
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,599
similar to they do the same thing with Meredith, which

802
00:49:57,639 --> 00:50:00,440
is that the whole true love will save you and

803
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,880
heal your mental health problems. Yeah, so once she meets

804
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,280
Ben that she'll be able to like unclench and be.

805
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:11,559
Speaker 2: Relaxed, which is not real life, not.

806
00:50:11,519 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 1: In the way that they show it, how much it

807
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,960
flips in the movie. Yeah, and so the movie does

808
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:24,440
ever dirty in writing his characters ending that way, and

809
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,760
I want to give him a more benefit of the

810
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,679
doubt if he was a real person, Yes, because honestly,

811
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,800
like I could see him jumping to this, and then

812
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,239
if I was this therapist being like okay, but I'd

813
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:37,880
keep my eye on it, I'd be like, Okay, are

814
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:42,719
we just doing the same thing absolutely another woman instead

815
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,039
of who am I when I'm by myself?

816
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:46,039
Speaker 2: Yes?

817
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,639
Speaker 1: And how you do need to figure that out to

818
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:54,760
be in a successful relationship mm hmmm, because then you

819
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:56,280
wake up one day and you're like, how am I

820
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,320
in this life? And how am I married to this person?

821
00:50:59,639 --> 00:51:01,480
And how do I get here? And it's because you

822
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:06,079
weren't paying attention to who you were along the way exactly.

823
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 3: And I think this is where we can also pull

824
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,840
in Foreverett the grief experience. Like something else that happens

825
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,559
when we lose a primary caregiver is that our identity

826
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,800
becomes different. We are different after we've lost a parent.

827
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,639
We've talked about this a bunch on the podcast in

828
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,800
the past. Whatever we've talked about grief, we talk about

829
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,280
how much you're you will never be the same person

830
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:29,880
that you are.

831
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 2: Before a primary caregiver passes, you just won't.

832
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,039
Speaker 3: And I think what I feel the same way about Everett,

833
00:51:37,039 --> 00:51:39,559
that I would really hope that he would take some

834
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:45,119
time not only like to manage grieving, but also take

835
00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:48,519
some time to really learn who he is. Because even

836
00:51:48,599 --> 00:51:52,079
when we see him open the drawer and he has

837
00:51:52,119 --> 00:51:56,079
all those old trophies that he doesn't have out anymore, like, he.

838
00:51:56,039 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 2: Just acts like.

839
00:51:58,639 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 3: He just acts like, yeah, like that was another time,

840
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:07,039
another version of me that I don't feel connected to anymore,

841
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,239
and he just puts it back in there and closes

842
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,000
the drawer and doesn't talk about it anymore.

843
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think basically along on the short of it is,

844
00:52:13,599 --> 00:52:16,760
I don't know whoever it is. Yes, after watching this

845
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,400
movie and the Julie dynamic does not bring me comfort

846
00:52:23,679 --> 00:52:27,159
about that, watching it from a therapist's size actually makes

847
00:52:27,199 --> 00:52:32,719
me more concerned. Yes, that he's going farther in then

848
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,000
he's getting out of it.

849
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

850
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: And then what a mess to dated two sisters while

851
00:52:38,519 --> 00:52:40,480
going through this process of figuring out who the fuck

852
00:52:40,519 --> 00:52:40,760
you are?

853
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: No friggin doubt, no friggin' doubt.

854
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,760
Speaker 3: Because they come back, because him and Julie come back

855
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,559
from their their traveling together, and so that's what they're

856
00:52:52,599 --> 00:52:54,800
coming back from. And it's just like, did you just

857
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:59,039
turn into who Julie wanted you to be instead of

858
00:52:59,079 --> 00:53:00,159
who the whoever.

859
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:01,079
Speaker 2: The fuck you actually are?

860
00:53:02,159 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like we said, if this movie was more

861
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,519
fleshed out, and by that I mean like covered a

862
00:53:09,519 --> 00:53:12,599
bigger span of time, maybe we'd also get a better

863
00:53:12,679 --> 00:53:15,639
understanding of like what was Everett's role in the family.

864
00:53:16,679 --> 00:53:21,519
Is he like this golden child eldest son, Like the

865
00:53:21,559 --> 00:53:26,519
way that their mom feels like she is allowed to

866
00:53:26,599 --> 00:53:29,800
dictate him to a certain extent, and it feels like

867
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,880
the whole family's kind of like going towards the parent's

868
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,840
idea of stuff that it would make me curious if

869
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:44,000
he ever felt like he was allowed to be himself. Yeah,

870
00:53:44,039 --> 00:53:47,920
if he was always like similar with Meredith, like people pleasing,

871
00:53:48,039 --> 00:53:51,280
which is probably why they also are compatible to a

872
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,119
certain extent. Is there are two people that are just

873
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:55,719
trying to get along, which is also why they are

874
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,000
all these smaller moments, and then we can segue, I

875
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:01,360
think into the family with this all these smaller moments

876
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:06,639
in which I think Meredith and or Everett could have

877
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:12,519
stood up for themselves, stood up for each other and didn't.

878
00:54:12,639 --> 00:54:14,320
And I wonder if that's also part of the people

879
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,719
pleasing thing, is that you don't say anything until you

880
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,159
fucking snap. Yeah, and then the shit has hit the

881
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:23,039
fan and doesn't.

882
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,519
Speaker 2: Either, which is pretty much what we see happen.

883
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:32,119
Speaker 1: I mean, they both get into to certain extent physical fights. Yeah,

884
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,840
they both like they end them, both of them, and

885
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:43,280
the movie covered in shit, bloody, fucked up, having messed

886
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,719
around to some extent with the sibling of their partner,

887
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,239
like they're messy. And I think that's such a good

888
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:58,159
example of when you are white knuckling having your shit

889
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,119
together versus authentically having your shit together. You can only

890
00:55:01,159 --> 00:55:02,880
do that for so long before you snap. And this

891
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:03,960
is what snapping looks like.

892
00:55:04,639 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, yelling at each other in front of the

893
00:55:08,519 --> 00:55:13,360
whole family on Christmas Day. I didn't ask you to

894
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:17,480
marry me? And what are you talking about? I thought

895
00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:20,159
that's what she wanted, and then her saying.

896
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:30,079
Speaker 2: No, I will not marry you please themselves into a marriage. Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.

897
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well we'll take another break here and we'll be

898
00:55:34,159 --> 00:55:38,760
back to talk about the family stone themselves, all right,

899
00:55:39,599 --> 00:55:42,760
So we've talked about the fact that this family is

900
00:55:43,079 --> 00:55:48,480
very close and they very much seem to prioritize closeness,

901
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:55,480
and they also are watching misterro therapist eyes. I felt

902
00:55:55,519 --> 00:56:00,239
a lot less forgiving, or maybe I noticed a lot

903
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:07,679
more low key mean behaviors, like they felt more like

904
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:12,199
the bad guys. Yeah, watching the movie through my therapist

905
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,519
lens than Meredith, and I will say, I think that's

906
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,840
where this movie is really really well written.

907
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,039
Speaker 2: That's where it makes start that takeover so you can

908
00:56:21,119 --> 00:56:21,599
edit that well.

909
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 1: Also, I think that is actually where this movie is

910
00:56:25,039 --> 00:56:27,960
really well written, is that no one is like the

911
00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:31,280
bad guy and the good guy. Everyone in this movie

912
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,400
kind of acts like an asshole.

913
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

914
00:56:35,159 --> 00:56:38,079
Speaker 1: And I do respect that because I think the movie

915
00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:40,480
makes you want to think that Meredith is this fucking

916
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:45,119
uptight drip and the family is like this cool, more

917
00:56:45,159 --> 00:56:51,199
bohemian academic, close, messy but in a fun way family

918
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:56,639
like warm Christmas family, but they are very mean to Meredith,

919
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,760
and they also don't take things seriously. Like one of

920
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:05,960
my notes is when that granddaughter takes Mary. Elizabeth takes

921
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:07,519
Mary of the shoes, but you know, I've got to

922
00:57:07,519 --> 00:57:14,559
be expensive expensive and does she takes shoes, fancy shoes

923
00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:18,960
that aren't hers. She fucks them up, and everyone everyone

924
00:57:19,039 --> 00:57:23,320
acts like it's like a nothing burger, Like it's it's

925
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,079
like less than anti climactic, Like she comes into the kitchen,

926
00:57:27,119 --> 00:57:29,960
she sees that this child has her shoes, which is like,

927
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,039
why does she have my things?

928
00:57:31,079 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 2: Period?

929
00:57:32,119 --> 00:57:34,079
Speaker 1: And then she's playing with them in the middle of

930
00:57:34,199 --> 00:57:38,320
all the all the adults, including her mother and even

931
00:57:38,679 --> 00:57:39,119
next to her.

932
00:57:39,599 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 2: Yes, even when Mareth like takes.

933
00:57:41,159 --> 00:57:47,519
Speaker 1: The shoes and they're clearly wobbly, there's no emphatic like

934
00:57:47,639 --> 00:57:51,760
I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry that Elizabeth gottrue shoes.

935
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,639
Elizabeth say you're sorry to Meredith. We will fix these,

936
00:57:54,679 --> 00:57:58,360
we will pay for them. It's just very like, oh,

937
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,599
you know how it is. Sometimes things get fixed, and

938
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:02,480
if you have a you know, and then it kind

939
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,800
of puts the onus on Meritith to decide if she's

940
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,239
going to be a bit about this or not exactly,

941
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,559
and that really that right off the rip like really

942
00:58:10,559 --> 00:58:15,039
put me off because as much as I guess socially

943
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,440
the expectation is that Mereth is having to impress the family,

944
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,440
I also believe the family should be doing their part

945
00:58:22,519 --> 00:58:27,960
to impress her. Yeah, and they are not at all.

946
00:58:28,119 --> 00:58:31,280
It's very mean, girls, it's very you know what it is.

947
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:32,199
Speaker 2: It's very.

948
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:41,039
Speaker 1: Inclusive, it's very exclusive. Actually, it's very Our family is

949
00:58:41,079 --> 00:58:42,000
such a good family.

950
00:58:42,039 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 2: We're so tight.

951
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,239
Speaker 1: This is either you come in and you kind of

952
00:58:45,239 --> 00:58:48,000
go with the way that we do things, or something's

953
00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:54,679
up with you and we can't interpret that. Maybe also

954
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:58,440
being something that's heightened by the grief we've been discussing. Yeah,

955
00:58:58,519 --> 00:59:05,000
like their matriarch was close to death possibly and now

956
00:59:05,079 --> 00:59:09,159
we know is terminal again or terminal for the first time,

957
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:17,760
So that could be heightening the.

958
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:17,159
Speaker 2: Exclusivity of the family.

959
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like tightened ranks, I guess absolutely. Yeah, but

960
00:59:21,639 --> 00:59:26,559
there's also things socially going on that's that's bad social

961
00:59:26,559 --> 00:59:28,960
skills on their part. As someone. I mean, you and

962
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,400
I are both from big families. Yeah, so I have

963
00:59:31,599 --> 00:59:36,880
met many in laws, many girlfriends partners of my siblings

964
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,400
that two of them have become now my sister in laws.

965
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 2: You know, I know that you have the same.

966
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:50,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I can't imagine being this rude to someone

967
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:52,440
that I'm meeting for the first time that I know

968
00:59:52,559 --> 00:59:54,559
my sibling cares about.

969
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I totally agree. I totally agree.

970
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 3: I mean, my my experience always has always been everyone's

971
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:09,840
really nice, really sweet, really open, really flexible, like really helpful,

972
01:00:10,039 --> 01:00:13,039
like really wanting them to feel comfortable. And I feel

973
01:00:13,039 --> 01:00:16,519
like this family is like no one is allowed to

974
01:00:16,519 --> 01:00:17,320
feel comfortable.

975
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,519
Speaker 1: Well, it's they're doing this talking out of both sides

976
01:00:21,519 --> 01:00:23,920
of their mouth thing, which I can see why that

977
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,840
does make Meredith crazy. Absolutely, it's very I guess it's

978
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,360
very passive aggressive what I mean in that we're fine

979
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,440
with you sleeping in separate beds, but we're gonna make

980
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,800
a whole meal out of the fact that you're putting

981
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:41,360
Amy out. And like they have a lot of little

982
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:45,800
things and faces. It's like everyone's telling a joke that

983
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,840
Meredith isn't in on, and she's also like the butt

984
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:55,360
of it. And so it's like they're performing openness and kindness.

985
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:57,800
And I think the only people that really do that

986
01:00:58,199 --> 01:01:00,599
are Patrick, probably because there's also another in law, so

987
01:01:00,639 --> 01:01:03,079
he knows this family and maybe how hard it is

988
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,440
to get your way into the family, and he deals

989
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,599
with that by being quiet and useful.

990
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, he really does.

991
01:01:13,079 --> 01:01:17,199
Speaker 1: He stay right, which you know, he's a black person

992
01:01:17,239 --> 01:01:19,400
and he's also gay, so that could just be he

993
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,039
knows how to code switch, he knows how.

994
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 2: To stay out of trouble. Yeah, you know.

995
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 1: And the older sister actually, even though like I said,

996
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:29,159
in these moments with the shoe and everything, she's a

997
01:01:29,159 --> 01:01:33,800
little she could be more hands on and more directive. Actually,

998
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:35,920
I think she's very hands off for an older sibling.

999
01:01:36,199 --> 01:01:39,679
But also she's going through her own grief, as we

1000
01:01:39,719 --> 01:01:42,320
say the leader in the movie when she stays downstairs

1001
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,360
and watches Saint Louis meet me in Saint Louis and

1002
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,519
she's crying that like this whole family too, is operating

1003
01:01:49,559 --> 01:01:56,559
in grief and high emotionality, which I want to give

1004
01:01:56,599 --> 01:02:00,039
them the benefit of the doubt. And how much that

1005
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,199
probably is impacting the way that they are all behaving

1006
01:02:05,199 --> 01:02:06,800
at this Christmas holiday.

1007
01:02:07,559 --> 01:02:11,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because I think they're all having their own experiences.

1008
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,039
I think the only one that we don't see have

1009
01:02:15,119 --> 01:02:18,119
a reaction to the mom having terminal cancer.

1010
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,519
Speaker 2: Is that, Yeah, we don't really see.

1011
01:02:21,239 --> 01:02:24,639
Speaker 3: Him and Patrick have that awareness that we see on

1012
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,119
Susannah's face and Ben's face and Everett's face.

1013
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 2: We don't really we don't really see.

1014
01:02:32,039 --> 01:02:37,239
Speaker 1: That, yeah, for whatever reason. And also exactly Amy too.

1015
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,440
We see that with the pictures because I feel like

1016
01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:45,719
FAD's emotional moment is the dinner table scene. Yeah, unfortunately, Yeah,

1017
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:49,800
I agreed, And how much the mom means to him

1018
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:51,800
in that moment, Like she does do a really great

1019
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:56,960
job of like touching him, touching base with him after that, Yeah,

1020
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,840
and being like I love you, there's nothing wrong with you.

1021
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 2: Like she does.

1022
01:03:00,559 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 1: That's a fantastic thing she does there to be with him.

1023
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1024
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But yeah, like they're all like maybe Susannah's just.

1025
01:03:12,239 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 2: More checked out, and also she's pregnant as.

1026
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,679
Speaker 1: Fuck and she's single parenting at the moment because her

1027
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,480
husband isn't there yet, so she might just be like.

1028
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:23,199
Speaker 2: I don't care. I don't care.

1029
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,519
Speaker 1: I don't know who shoes they are, but I don't care.

1030
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:27,639
But you know what, Like I could see her just

1031
01:03:27,639 --> 01:03:30,719
like maybe going through the motions in a lot of ways.

1032
01:03:31,719 --> 01:03:34,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe waiting and maybe like waiting for her

1033
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:36,519
husband to get there before like she.

1034
01:03:38,159 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 2: Like really connects to the family. Mm hmm.

1035
01:03:41,519 --> 01:03:48,199
Speaker 1: But yeah, where's the point I was gonna make in that. Yeah,

1036
01:03:48,199 --> 01:03:50,800
they are just these certain things that like they they

1037
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:56,159
aren't making an effort to be respectful of Meredith and

1038
01:03:56,199 --> 01:04:00,480
Everett and I this is also one of those things

1039
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,320
where I would love to see more of this family

1040
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,679
at like different times. Yeah, because is this how they are?

1041
01:04:07,119 --> 01:04:09,760
Are they also being different than normal? Like it's how

1042
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:14,000
they're treating meritith something that Everett's also shocked by because

1043
01:04:14,079 --> 01:04:16,199
has he dated girls in the past and they've been

1044
01:04:17,159 --> 01:04:20,199
better than this because they are I'm a warm family

1045
01:04:20,199 --> 01:04:21,719
where I could see how.

1046
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:23,239
Speaker 2: Like how Julie gets received.

1047
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,679
Speaker 1: Is I feel like probably how they've received other people

1048
01:04:26,679 --> 01:04:29,800
in the past, like maybe Patrick and other people that

1049
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:34,239
Amy has dated or Ben has dated, or Everett's dated, and.

1050
01:04:36,119 --> 01:04:37,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so the.

1051
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,199
Speaker 3: So actually, there is a moment in the film where

1052
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:45,199
Everett brings up somebody else that he was dating because

1053
01:04:45,199 --> 01:04:47,239
he wants the ring, and he said, when I was

1054
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,159
dating so and so, and then the mom lights up

1055
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:51,159
and is like.

1056
01:04:51,519 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it wasn't she great?

1057
01:04:53,039 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 3: We really loved her, like just lays it on thick

1058
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,840
about this other person, like there was so much better than.

1059
01:04:59,719 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 2: Mayor death in those in that moment.

1060
01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:08,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I feel like there are other people that

1061
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:14,000
he's brought home that they liked or got along with better. Yeah,

1062
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,880
And I also think in some ways it's just Meredith

1063
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,760
at the wrong time, Like she's coming into a family

1064
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:26,480
that is so emotionally rought. Yeah, and they're about to

1065
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,119
get like the worst news of their fucking life, yeah,

1066
01:05:30,159 --> 01:05:35,599
which is that their like beloved matriarch is dying. Yeah,

1067
01:05:35,639 --> 01:05:38,679
like she's not coming back this time from this and

1068
01:05:38,719 --> 01:05:42,000
that this is probably and finds out to be the

1069
01:05:42,079 --> 01:05:45,840
last Christmas they all have together. And so it makes

1070
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,480
me curious if all, like the strength of this family

1071
01:05:50,199 --> 01:05:55,920
have gotten kind of like twirked and and like kind

1072
01:05:55,920 --> 01:06:00,360
of perverted, like twisted in the context of what they're

1073
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,960
going through, Like they typically they're very close, but now.

1074
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:05,719
Speaker 2: It seems controlling.

1075
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe they're like a family that teases and

1076
01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:13,039
is very open and honest, but now it's coming off

1077
01:06:13,079 --> 01:06:15,880
as like mean and agitated, like there's an edge to

1078
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:21,800
it that maybe there typically isn't. And like I wonder

1079
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:23,719
because you made a great point of how Amy and

1080
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,480
Mom are very similar and you're right like that the

1081
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:31,800
scene where Amy's awake and Mom's awake and Meredith shows

1082
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:37,199
up looking like Aubrey Hepburn, which is off, you know, outfit,

1083
01:06:37,679 --> 01:06:41,800
and they are so mean, like they're Caddy, like they're mean,

1084
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,079
the way that there's that passive, aggressive, mean girl kind

1085
01:06:45,079 --> 01:06:50,239
of mean. Yeah, and well one they're and so they're

1086
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:53,360
encouraging each other Mom and Amy, which I never really noticed,

1087
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:54,880
you're right, like you were right and saying that when

1088
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:56,639
we were watching it, like they are. I bet you

1089
01:06:56,679 --> 01:07:00,679
Amy is just like her. I bet you was just

1090
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:06,199
like Amy back in the day. And how they are

1091
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:08,119
encouraging each other the way that.

1092
01:07:08,079 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 2: We all can get.

1093
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: Everyone knows someone that they can kiki with that kind

1094
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,440
of blows up like the worst parts of their personality.

1095
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:21,519
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, which is family. Yeah, almost always. My mom

1096
01:07:21,599 --> 01:07:22,719
hates it. She loves it.

1097
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:24,119
Speaker 1: But she also hates it with me and my brother

1098
01:07:24,239 --> 01:07:27,920
Cody are together because we start to get a little

1099
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,000
like zing zing zing zing zing, and she's like, you guys,

1100
01:07:30,039 --> 01:07:32,280
I mean, and we just think we're being funny.

1101
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 2: But I'm sure.

1102
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 1: I mean, my mother says it's me, so I guess

1103
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:39,559
I have to believe her on that. But but yeah,

1104
01:07:39,639 --> 01:07:44,320
like they they really aren't trying at all, in my opinion,

1105
01:07:45,639 --> 01:07:51,199
to make Meredith feel comfortable. Absolutely, I think that they're

1106
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:56,559
acting like they are. But she's such a rigid, uptight

1107
01:07:57,599 --> 01:08:01,920
monster that there's like know that she should just be

1108
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:05,400
grateful that they're putting up with her, yeah, and not

1109
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,079
saying all this shit to her face the whole time.

1110
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,880
And I do wonder if all that too, is how

1111
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,199
much is their attention that, like, this is our last

1112
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:17,279
Christmas with our mom and it has to be perfect,

1113
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:21,479
and you're bringing in this outsider who does not fuck

1114
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:25,159
with our vibe and now you're going to fucking get

1115
01:08:25,159 --> 01:08:25,880
Grandma's ring.

1116
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now you're.

1117
01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:31,199
Speaker 1: Going to become a permanent part of the story. Like

1118
01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:35,159
that is, we can't have a new person around also

1119
01:08:35,199 --> 01:08:36,920
for us to feel all the feelings that we have

1120
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,319
to feel. I mean, it also makes me think of,

1121
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,600
you know, when a loved one has cancer, has a

1122
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:48,880
terminal diagnosis of some kind, that the anger around them

1123
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,680
being in that position or having to experience that or

1124
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:55,359
the cancer coming back. Also, they could also just be

1125
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,399
feeling really angry, and so they're all kind of acting

1126
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:01,279
kind of agitated, and they and their volume is turned

1127
01:09:01,359 --> 01:09:04,399
up on all their behaviors, And that would make a

1128
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:06,479
lot because who can you be mad with when somebody

1129
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:07,479
has a terminal illness?

1130
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,159
Speaker 2: Yeah? Right, odd, you know.

1131
01:09:10,199 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, So I think it also would be natural

1132
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,319
that this would be a family that's experiencing a lot

1133
01:09:16,359 --> 01:09:21,479
of anger and frustration over over the over Sybil's experience.

1134
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1135
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: And then if if Amy and Mom, if they're like

1136
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:31,520
each other's person, like I feel like Amy, her mom

1137
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:35,119
is her person, Yeah that understands her, is just like her,

1138
01:09:36,119 --> 01:09:41,319
then there also can be a this isn't healthy a

1139
01:09:41,399 --> 01:09:45,600
camaraderie with like us versus them, like how we feel

1140
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:50,279
close and how we reassure how similar.

1141
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 2: We are to each other? Is we dogpile h?

1142
01:09:53,159 --> 01:09:55,520
Speaker 1: And also like we were saying, like the anger that

1143
01:09:55,520 --> 01:10:00,600
they both are probably feeling of like the impermanence of

1144
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:05,199
their relationship, like the genuine and permanence, and how upsetting

1145
01:10:05,239 --> 01:10:07,600
all that is and how like I said, they're pissed

1146
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:11,520
over it. But you can't be that mad at Everett

1147
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,560
and still be holding on to their idea of their family. Yeah,

1148
01:10:16,039 --> 01:10:17,560
and so I can. But I can't be mad at

1149
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:20,119
Mereth because she's not one of us. But ever it's

1150
01:10:20,159 --> 01:10:22,600
one of us and we have this last Christmas together,

1151
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:26,920
so yeah, we're gonna be mad.

1152
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:30,520
Speaker 2: And Mareth isn't easy. She's a great scapegoat.

1153
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 1: I mean, for all the Gellings, they're fucking holding exactly exactly. Yeah,

1154
01:10:37,359 --> 01:10:40,520
And like I said, like there's a I just felt

1155
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:46,960
really disappointed in Sybil for how she was not modeling

1156
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:51,000
how you are supposed to treat a new person in

1157
01:10:51,039 --> 01:10:51,600
your household.

1158
01:10:52,239 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

1159
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:58,600
Speaker 1: And something that I want to add to that, it

1160
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:00,000
is kind of going back to how we were talking

1161
01:11:00,039 --> 01:11:05,039
came about control in regards to Meredith is and that's

1162
01:11:05,079 --> 01:11:07,880
the arc we see with Sybil over the movie, is

1163
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:12,359
that she's trying to control Everett and control who he

1164
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:17,600
marries and his future. I'm sure before she dies well,

1165
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:20,039
and by the end of the movie she she lets

1166
01:11:20,039 --> 01:11:20,479
go of that.

1167
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.

1168
01:11:23,079 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 3: But a part of and a part of what she's

1169
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:29,199
worried about is He's going to make a mistake and

1170
01:11:29,319 --> 01:11:31,720
I'm not going to be there to be with him

1171
01:11:32,039 --> 01:11:37,159
through making that mistake. Yeah, Which and they feel so sure,

1172
01:11:37,239 --> 01:11:40,199
which again is pulling back into that rigidity, right, they

1173
01:11:40,199 --> 01:11:42,359
feel so sure that Meredith is going to ruin his

1174
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:43,800
life or something like.

1175
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:48,520
Speaker 1: It's so they're so rigid about that about him, about

1176
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:49,319
that experience.

1177
01:11:49,319 --> 01:11:51,560
Speaker 3: And I feel like she does finally come around to it,

1178
01:11:52,239 --> 01:11:55,800
but that she is trying to control in the same way.

1179
01:11:56,560 --> 01:12:00,560
Speaker 1: And I think her learning that lesson that by trying

1180
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:04,760
to control effort is going in the opposite of her intention,

1181
01:12:05,119 --> 01:12:07,920
which is I want to be in it.

1182
01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 2: I want my family to be in a good place

1183
01:12:10,079 --> 01:12:10,800
before I go.

1184
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,640
Speaker 1: And that's also you know, the thing that she talks

1185
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:17,920
about with Kelly, right, yes, when he says I'll be fine, like,

1186
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,119
we'll be fine, I'll figure it out. And I think

1187
01:12:20,119 --> 01:12:23,119
at that moment he's also trying to tell her like, yeah,

1188
01:12:23,159 --> 01:12:26,119
you can't set us up for like no problems after

1189
01:12:26,159 --> 01:12:31,439
you leave. Yeah, And they like that moment in bed,

1190
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,840
and then the next morning when she sees Everett, she's like,

1191
01:12:36,079 --> 01:12:37,880
she does repair work a bit with him.

1192
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 2: She does.

1193
01:12:39,279 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: And by repair work, it's a therapy term, but basically

1194
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:44,680
it just means kind of how it sounds, which is

1195
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:50,560
that you go back to a conflict or after a conflict,

1196
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:54,640
after something interpersonally bad happens.

1197
01:12:55,159 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you go back towards.

1198
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:01,159
Speaker 1: The person that you had that with and you repair

1199
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:05,760
You say, like, this is what happened. I acknowledge how

1200
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,359
I made you feel. I want to know how I

1201
01:13:08,399 --> 01:13:11,439
made you feel. I want to know what you need

1202
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:14,159
so that you don't feel this way. Again, if that's possible,

1203
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:18,159
and I take ownership for where I fucked up, Yeah,

1204
01:13:18,159 --> 01:13:21,680
and wanting to move on right and kind She does

1205
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,319
do that with him where she owns it, and she

1206
01:13:24,359 --> 01:13:27,479
also identifies where she was coming from, not in a

1207
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:32,079
way that excuses her, but she's just explained to him

1208
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:37,039
why she's been so fucking keyed up. And then she

1209
01:13:37,279 --> 01:13:39,359
does the you know, want to punch where she's like,

1210
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:41,920
you know, you getting married isn't going to fix me,

1211
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:44,560
which is what she should have said in the beginning,

1212
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:46,279
if that's what she's so worried about, and if that's

1213
01:13:46,279 --> 01:13:49,520
where all this fucking bitch energy is coming from. Is

1214
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,920
pulling him aside at the beginning and being like hey,

1215
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:54,560
like when he asks for the ring, she does have

1216
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:56,760
a very off putting reaction. She kind of like laughs

1217
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:02,680
in his face. She's being very unkind. Yeah, absolutely, she's

1218
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:06,840
just being mean towards Meredith instead of saying like, hey,

1219
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:15,960
I feel I feel hesitant, like really hesitant about actually

1220
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:20,359
falling through with this promise I made you because I

1221
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:23,800
love you and I'm worried about you, and can you

1222
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:28,880
help me understand what Meredith means to you? Yeah, Like

1223
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:32,920
there's a way to have that conversation full on, or

1224
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:34,880
even just saying like I'm worried that you're doing this

1225
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:35,720
because I'm dying.

1226
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:37,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1227
01:14:37,399 --> 01:14:41,640
Speaker 3: Absolutely, there's so many different ways that she could have communicated.

1228
01:14:42,359 --> 01:14:45,319
They could have had that conversation right off the bat,

1229
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:47,079
because they.

1230
01:14:47,039 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 1: Have just cries and they hold each other, and that's

1231
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:54,359
what needed to happen, like releasing the tension, because part

1232
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:57,079
of this movie is that they're trying not to tell

1233
01:14:57,079 --> 01:14:59,760
the kids until after the holidays, but slowly over the

1234
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:06,039
course movie, like everybody fucking knows. Yeah, and so it

1235
01:15:06,159 --> 01:15:09,439
just becomes this thing that's like haunting the holiday, the

1236
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:10,880
true instead of them being.

1237
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:12,159
Speaker 2: Like protected from the information.

1238
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:19,399
Speaker 1: And in that moment, she does kind of give permission

1239
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,279
to rip off the band aid with ever it. Yeah,

1240
01:15:22,359 --> 01:15:24,439
and he gets really upset, And I think that's a

1241
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,279
very powerful moment. And like I said, I wish his

1242
01:15:27,359 --> 01:15:30,239
story didn't end with him then chasing after another woman,

1243
01:15:30,279 --> 01:15:33,960
and just like that would be a great moment for

1244
01:15:34,079 --> 01:15:36,279
him to be like, I know, I don't want to

1245
01:15:36,279 --> 01:15:36,960
be with Meredith.

1246
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 2: I do like Julie.

1247
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:42,399
Speaker 1: I do like when she says reach out to me

1248
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:45,399
New Year's Eve, like she at least is like we

1249
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:47,319
need to take some breathing room. All lot's happened this

1250
01:15:47,359 --> 01:15:51,760
weekend or this week and you know, we don't know

1251
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:55,960
if this is actually us having good chemistry or just

1252
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,880
the you know, anticipation in adrenaline.

1253
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, of everything.

1254
01:16:01,279 --> 01:16:04,039
Speaker 1: And I wish he would have said like, yeah, I

1255
01:16:04,079 --> 01:16:07,000
think I need time to figure myself out.

1256
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:13,239
Speaker 2: Instead of I don't know, hopping the world with Julie. Yeah.

1257
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:19,800
Speaker 3: Like yeah, it just feels like again like he is

1258
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:22,640
right back where he was, where he doesn't know who

1259
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,399
he is, and he's just going to follow the next

1260
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:29,479
woman wherever they go, and isn't going to take the

1261
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:34,319
time to really figure out who he is and how

1262
01:16:34,359 --> 01:16:36,159
he wants to show up in his life.

1263
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:40,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if there's.

1264
01:16:40,039 --> 01:16:45,199
Speaker 1: Anything specifically more about the family other than there is

1265
01:16:45,319 --> 01:16:51,880
this casual meanness which is very encouraged amongst them, and

1266
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:57,640
it is like a perfect storm with Meredith and Everett.

1267
01:16:59,119 --> 01:17:00,840
But I don't know if there is there anything more

1268
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:03,119
that you want to say about the family.

1269
01:17:04,199 --> 01:17:11,399
Speaker 2: I feel like funny clearing my throat. I feel like.

1270
01:17:13,039 --> 01:17:15,399
Speaker 3: Something just kind of in general I guess to talk about,

1271
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:19,000
is again this idea of in a family everybody plays

1272
01:17:19,039 --> 01:17:21,600
a role, and I know that I've talked about this before, right,

1273
01:17:22,119 --> 01:17:25,000
you have the role of sometimes there's a prodigal, sometimes

1274
01:17:25,039 --> 01:17:31,279
there's a prodigal son, Sometimes there is a peacekeeper, sometimes

1275
01:17:31,319 --> 01:17:35,840
there is the class clown. Sometimes like everybody has a

1276
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,479
role in a family. And when one person in the

1277
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:41,319
family starts really acting different, which I think a part

1278
01:17:41,319 --> 01:17:42,560
of what we're seeing.

1279
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:48,560
Speaker 1: With Everett, the whole system will like freak out, freak

1280
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:52,239
out and batten down the hatches and like, no, this

1281
01:17:52,319 --> 01:17:55,359
is how you are, this is your role, this is

1282
01:17:55,399 --> 01:17:59,960
where you should be. And Everett doesn't do that because

1283
01:18:00,119 --> 01:18:05,359
he doesn't know who he is and he doesn't have

1284
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:08,600
awareness of how big of an impact his role has

1285
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:12,520
on everybody else, which is really common for an eldest

1286
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:17,520
sibling to be almost at the core of like one

1287
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:21,000
of the main family roles that has to be there.

1288
01:18:21,279 --> 01:18:24,479
Because I know that the first time that I acted

1289
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:29,239
really outside of what my family expected and very much

1290
01:18:29,239 --> 01:18:34,199
outside of my role, that everybody was acting like I

1291
01:18:34,279 --> 01:18:40,000
had committed like murder, it was like I was all

1292
01:18:40,039 --> 01:18:43,119
these things and all these things were true, and there

1293
01:18:43,199 --> 01:18:47,439
was no flexibility around what was going on or like

1294
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:50,239
what I needed or anything. Right, it's all about you're

1295
01:18:50,239 --> 01:18:52,680
not playing the role, and we're going to make you

1296
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:54,680
play that role because that's the only way that we

1297
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:57,960
understand the family. And we can't play our roles if

1298
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:01,000
you're not playing you, if you're not playing yours, which

1299
01:19:01,039 --> 01:19:03,920
is a dysfunctional family system, right when our roles are

1300
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:06,720
so dependent upon each other, Like we should all be

1301
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:11,000
able to move freely in the family as our own purple,

1302
01:19:11,159 --> 01:19:17,920
as our own move, as our own people, and like

1303
01:19:18,039 --> 01:19:24,399
my identity shouldn't be so dependent upon your identity exactly,

1304
01:19:25,359 --> 01:19:30,239
which then also brings up why everyone feels like they're

1305
01:19:30,239 --> 01:19:32,600
allowed to have so much say over whoever it is with.

1306
01:19:33,279 --> 01:19:37,039
Because something that my mom has always impressed upon me

1307
01:19:37,159 --> 01:19:39,800
and I'm sure my siblings, which I do really appreciate,

1308
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:43,319
is she would always say, like, I'm not dating them,

1309
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:46,199
And what she meant by that is, we don't have

1310
01:19:46,279 --> 01:19:50,279
to want to date this person that one of the

1311
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:52,000
family members is dating.

1312
01:19:52,119 --> 01:19:53,920
Speaker 2: As long as they're cool and we can.

1313
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,039
Speaker 1: Get along and be civil and like make it work

1314
01:19:57,119 --> 01:20:00,800
when we're all together, that's good enough. Like that is enough,

1315
01:20:01,399 --> 01:20:05,279
and they don't have to be someone that perfectly slots

1316
01:20:05,319 --> 01:20:08,880
into our family system. You don't have to understand why

1317
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:12,439
that person's with them as long as they're genuinely happy. So,

1318
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:14,880
and like I said, that's why it makes me wonder,

1319
01:20:16,279 --> 01:20:20,239
like the Fattius actually being so direct with Everett does

1320
01:20:20,279 --> 01:20:24,079
make me wonder about that part of it, because that's

1321
01:20:24,079 --> 01:20:26,319
where I can give this family a bone, is that

1322
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:32,640
they seem to be very sure that Everett won't be

1323
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:34,880
happy with Meredith. Yeah.

1324
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:38,399
Speaker 2: Now is that because they're projecting their shit onto Meredith.

1325
01:20:39,079 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: Or is it because like they genuinely are seeing that

1326
01:20:43,199 --> 01:20:45,159
ever it's not himself, Which I get that, you know

1327
01:20:45,159 --> 01:20:48,119
what I mean. Yeah, So that's where we don't have

1328
01:20:48,239 --> 01:20:51,319
enough information to have like a harder line about it,

1329
01:20:52,359 --> 01:20:55,760
because if this is always however it was, then I

1330
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,159
would think that the family would be prepared for him

1331
01:20:58,199 --> 01:21:03,399
to bring home someone that they wouldn't necessarily date themselves

1332
01:21:03,399 --> 01:21:08,079
as individuals. Yeah, but that's not the point. And like

1333
01:21:08,119 --> 01:21:11,720
I said, and they don't like the shoe thing keeps

1334
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:18,079
bogging me the wild Yeah, the shoe thing is wild,

1335
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:23,039
It really is. The shoe thing is their their casualness.

1336
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:27,199
It's not about the shoes. It's about how they don't

1337
01:21:27,239 --> 01:21:30,640
seem to give a shit how she feels yeah, or

1338
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:35,119
respect her yeah, or her things. And that's more than

1339
01:21:36,079 --> 01:21:39,159
like even if my brother, when my brothers was dating

1340
01:21:39,199 --> 01:21:41,800
like a real piece of work, I still wouldn't be like,

1341
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:44,359
so fuck her shit, you know what I mean. I

1342
01:21:44,359 --> 01:21:46,119
wouldn't if one of my nieces their nephew's got into

1343
01:21:46,119 --> 01:21:48,880
her shit and like broke it. I wouldn't be like, well,

1344
01:21:49,199 --> 01:21:49,840
who cares?

1345
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:51,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, tough shit.

1346
01:21:51,399 --> 01:21:55,359
Speaker 1: That's me showing up as a person I do or

1347
01:21:55,399 --> 01:21:57,439
do not want to be, whether or not the other

1348
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:02,199
person deserves it. And and that's just something to I

1349
01:22:02,239 --> 01:22:05,319
feel like maybe when this movie came out, I wonder

1350
01:22:05,319 --> 01:22:08,560
if this was more of a of a symbol of

1351
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:16,119
mariisome materialistic and we're not, you know, and sure, and

1352
01:22:16,239 --> 01:22:19,399
I wonder if that part of, like the cultural sensibility

1353
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:23,399
has changed. Whereas I don't, really, like I said, I

1354
01:22:23,439 --> 01:22:26,000
don't really think it matters that it might be these

1355
01:22:26,039 --> 01:22:28,880
expensive shoes. I think that ads obviously component to it,

1356
01:22:29,359 --> 01:22:32,600
but I think it's more like if she had had

1357
01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:34,359
a book and I was with had the book and

1358
01:22:34,399 --> 01:22:36,199
she ripped a couple pages out of it, like I

1359
01:22:36,199 --> 01:22:41,520
would be just as mortified as her mother or her

1360
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,960
aunt or whatever, as if it was like a fancy.

1361
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:46,800
Speaker 2: Payer of shoes. I'd be more stressed out if it

1362
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:49,399
was a fans pair of shoes because is having to

1363
01:22:49,399 --> 01:22:51,680
pay that back? Yeah.

1364
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:53,319
Speaker 1: And also the fact that like we have some glue

1365
01:22:53,359 --> 01:22:56,800
around here, like be serious.

1366
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:57,640
Speaker 2: I know, right.

1367
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:01,840
Speaker 1: I feel like Xanna was just like, well, there's got

1368
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:07,640
to be glue somewhere, and it's like bitches, yeah, because

1369
01:23:09,199 --> 01:23:15,600
because like that's and that also was so like glib Yeah, exactly,

1370
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:17,840
like oh, you know, just your shoes and we can

1371
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:20,199
just gloom together because we don't care about stuff like that.

1372
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 2: Have you seen your house? Yeah?

1373
01:23:23,079 --> 01:23:23,359
Speaker 1: You do?

1374
01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:25,279
Speaker 2: So what I was so what I was just thinking,

1375
01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:26,159
So is.

1376
01:23:26,119 --> 01:23:29,399
Speaker 3: It a little bit because they're all they're all rich,

1377
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:33,119
so they're just like whatever, it's just shoes, like.

1378
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:35,359
Speaker 1: They're undercover rich, Like they're the kind of verge that

1379
01:23:35,399 --> 01:23:39,800
acts like they're not rich. Yeah, but it's just don't Yeah,

1380
01:23:40,159 --> 01:23:43,000
because I would because I come from a family like

1381
01:23:43,199 --> 01:23:46,880
my parents are both very comfortable middle class now, but

1382
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:50,560
they don't come both my parents come from.

1383
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,359
Speaker 2: Lower status and.

1384
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:56,960
Speaker 1: We were very much like a version of middle class

1385
01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:59,439
that I don't know if it exists anymore, I would

1386
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:05,039
say no, and so if my brothers brought home someone

1387
01:24:05,199 --> 01:24:07,640
and then their fancy shoes got fucked up, it would

1388
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:11,680
be like DEATHCN five in my house, like my mother

1389
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:17,199
would be would feel so anyone would feel so awful. Yeah,

1390
01:24:17,239 --> 01:24:19,800
And that's what I mean when I say, like the bottom,

1391
01:24:20,039 --> 01:24:24,159
the top up, the top, the top down isn't being

1392
01:24:24,199 --> 01:24:28,479
modeled correctly. Yeah, and so it is allowing the children,

1393
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:35,439
the adult children to act in a not very considerate way. Now,

1394
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:38,800
like I said, please when we tell about all this stuff,

1395
01:24:39,319 --> 01:24:42,640
I am also the asterisk at all times is that

1396
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:45,840
this is a family probably in the clutches of grief.

1397
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:48,159
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.

1398
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 1: And so like I said, what's interesting about this movie

1399
01:24:52,119 --> 01:24:56,439
is we could definitely be seeing all these people acting

1400
01:24:56,479 --> 01:24:58,520
in a way that's not typical of them.

1401
01:24:59,199 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this could be.

1402
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:02,880
Speaker 1: A version of them that maybe when they look back

1403
01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:06,840
on this time, they feel like a lot of like shame, yeah,

1404
01:25:07,279 --> 01:25:09,920
and regret, you know, and maybe they do do repair

1405
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:13,960
work with Meredith, because she's not not leaving the family's now,

1406
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,680
she's in the family, in the family, she's at the

1407
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:21,600
one year later Christmas experience. I mean, yeah, I and

1408
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:24,319
I think you see, and what I think I like

1409
01:25:24,359 --> 01:25:27,079
about being able to go into the future and see

1410
01:25:27,079 --> 01:25:30,079
that scene with everyone. I think also showed me that

1411
01:25:30,199 --> 01:25:33,439
there's a comfort that everyone seems to have with each other,

1412
01:25:34,239 --> 01:25:36,760
like a comfort and like a warmness that feels like

1413
01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:41,199
they've all accepted each other in maybe a different way,

1414
01:25:41,239 --> 01:25:44,159
which can happen when you lose a matriarch of a family.

1415
01:25:45,039 --> 01:25:46,520
Speaker 2: Oh yea and a lot of ways.

1416
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:51,119
Speaker 3: Best case scenario is everybody is able to keep the

1417
01:25:51,199 --> 01:25:54,319
openness and warmth and kindness that this person brought to

1418
01:25:54,399 --> 01:25:57,800
the family and being able to keep that as something.

1419
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:02,359
So I feel like I feel like seeing those scenes

1420
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:06,600
really helps us see that like they are in a

1421
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:10,199
different place than they were, and I think we're coming

1422
01:26:10,239 --> 01:26:15,399
in maybe like mom's been gone for six months mm hmm, because.

1423
01:26:15,119 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't weeping and sobbing at Christmas. Yeah, yeah, but

1424
01:26:20,079 --> 01:26:25,079
it's definitely somber and different, but there's still a lot

1425
01:26:25,119 --> 01:26:29,960
of like joy and like the dad meeting the new baby,

1426
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:36,359
and there is joy there, yeah, but it's that joy

1427
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:42,319
with a huge asterisk, which is that someone's gone, right, Yeah,

1428
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:45,039
And I will say too, and maybe this plays a

1429
01:26:45,039 --> 01:26:46,640
big part of it as well. Is I think when

1430
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:50,520
Meredith gives them all the framed photo. I think that

1431
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:53,119
is a great moment in the movie of kind of

1432
01:26:53,119 --> 01:26:56,920
shaming the family. Yeah, like she's not that bad, guys,

1433
01:26:57,000 --> 01:26:59,960
and actually she can be very considerate, and she came

1434
01:27:00,279 --> 01:27:03,479
here with gifts for everyone, like a such a thoughtful,

1435
01:27:04,079 --> 01:27:07,920
perfect gift, and they all do kind of shut the

1436
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:12,159
fuck up in that moment and look appropriately shamed. Yes,

1437
01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:17,239
I mean, yeah, are we the assts? Yes, yes, you are.

1438
01:27:17,399 --> 01:27:20,479
You are the assholes. Yeah, and that there is a

1439
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:23,880
component of what's going on in this family that mayor

1440
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:24,800
that's not aware of.

1441
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:26,159
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

1442
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:30,720
Speaker 1: And I think that was kind of a nice reset moment,

1443
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:34,800
even though that does lead into the fights like right

1444
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:37,520
after that, right, yes, it does, but it does seem

1445
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:41,239
like even with that, they're like the crass rolls fall down,

1446
01:27:41,359 --> 01:27:44,560
they laugh, you know. It does seem like that's a

1447
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:49,239
moment that turns the corner where I think Amy and

1448
01:27:49,319 --> 01:27:53,199
Sybil the mom are like, maybe we have been huge bitches,

1449
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:57,319
yeah to this person who gave us such a beautiful,

1450
01:27:57,359 --> 01:28:01,920
perfect gift. Yeah, and didn't even know we need this gift. Yeah,

1451
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:07,359
So maybe we can chill the fuck out, yes, yes,

1452
01:28:09,399 --> 01:28:11,640
all right, so we'll take a break here and we'll

1453
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:13,479
be back with treatment.

1454
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:17,840
Speaker 3: Okay, So I will start with treatment. I'm going to

1455
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:22,520
talk about working with Everett, which I feel like is.

1456
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:24,239
Speaker 2: Obvious because I'm talking about him so much.

1457
01:28:26,199 --> 01:28:32,119
Speaker 1: A part of helping someone through grief and helping them

1458
01:28:32,399 --> 01:28:35,319
reidentify who they are and what kind of life they

1459
01:28:35,359 --> 01:28:38,600
want to have. I think that that is whatever it

1460
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:42,960
would really need as a clinician. I think he would

1461
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:50,479
come in after his mom passed, and I feel like

1462
01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:52,640
we would. I would really want to talk to him

1463
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:55,199
about and really explore a lot with him.

1464
01:28:56,319 --> 01:28:58,760
Speaker 2: When does he feel the most.

1465
01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:03,920
Speaker 3: Like himself and is that even something he can connect

1466
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:07,079
to during this time of grieving, because also sometimes that

1467
01:29:07,119 --> 01:29:09,920
can be hard to get to. So I feel like

1468
01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:12,840
I would want What I would refocus on with Everett too,

1469
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:17,680
is also of him having a being able to process

1470
01:29:17,720 --> 01:29:24,640
his mom passing and being not like internalizing it in

1471
01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:27,319
a way that means that he did something wrong or

1472
01:29:27,319 --> 01:29:28,079
did something.

1473
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 2: Bad or whatever.

1474
01:29:29,119 --> 01:29:29,319
Speaker 1: Right.

1475
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:32,000
Speaker 3: We already know that he feels more responsible for the

1476
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:36,239
family than maybe he should, so I feel like I

1477
01:29:36,239 --> 01:29:39,840
would want to work with him on getting a better

1478
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:43,319
sense of who he is and also a sense of

1479
01:29:43,359 --> 01:29:46,479
what he wants that life to look like, because I

1480
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:50,039
think that Everett is also not only bouncing between who

1481
01:29:50,079 --> 01:29:53,840
he is as a human, but also about where he

1482
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:57,479
wants to go with his life. I feel like between

1483
01:29:57,520 --> 01:30:01,119
him talking about the monastery and and then seems so

1484
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:05,239
seeming so disinterested and whatever job it is that he

1485
01:30:05,279 --> 01:30:09,159
has that he never speaks of it, but Meredith does,

1486
01:30:11,319 --> 01:30:14,479
so I feel like again like him being unhappy in

1487
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:18,479
his life and also helping him, and also I would

1488
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:21,920
want to help him understand family dynamics and the different

1489
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:24,359
ways the different roles that everybody plays and how that

1490
01:30:24,399 --> 01:30:25,880
has an effect on our communication.

1491
01:30:27,239 --> 01:30:30,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and who is he now?

1492
01:30:30,359 --> 01:30:30,439
Speaker 1: That?

1493
01:30:31,279 --> 01:30:34,439
Speaker 2: Yeah? And who is he now? Who is he now?

1494
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:35,079
And who?

1495
01:30:35,199 --> 01:30:38,359
Speaker 3: And also who does he want to be? And there's

1496
01:30:38,399 --> 01:30:41,800
all different, There's all different, there's all different kinds of

1497
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:45,319
ways to work with clients about these different things. And

1498
01:30:45,359 --> 01:30:47,760
sometimes we'll just make a list of the things that

1499
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:50,640
they like. What are the things that you like, and

1500
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:58,560
let's just start there. And also just really exploring values

1501
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:02,680
as well. Values can be really important to help somebody

1502
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:06,199
understand who they are is because a lot of our

1503
01:31:06,279 --> 01:31:11,399
values are I feel like a lot of our values

1504
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:13,399
are already stated in our families.

1505
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:15,800
Speaker 2: So we don't necessarily make.

1506
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:20,760
Speaker 1: Decisions about our values in that way because the value

1507
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:23,239
system is already set up in our family, so we

1508
01:31:23,279 --> 01:31:25,760
don't really So people don't really think about values and

1509
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:32,079
how that can affect your quality of life, and oh,

1510
01:31:32,119 --> 01:31:34,840
go ahead, I say, you don't mind me jumping into

1511
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:39,000
I think also values are something that we're not even

1512
01:31:39,039 --> 01:31:42,279
that conscious of, yes, And so a lot of times

1513
01:31:42,279 --> 01:31:44,119
when you do the values work with people, it's like

1514
01:31:44,159 --> 01:31:48,279
the first time they've really actually thought about what the

1515
01:31:48,359 --> 01:31:52,479
values were in their family, what their values are as

1516
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:57,880
an adult, because I don't necessarily it can be like

1517
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:01,000
religious ideology oriented, but I think a lot of times

1518
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:03,279
it's not.

1519
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 2: Not, though I mean, I don't do anything with any

1520
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:04,119
of that.

1521
01:32:04,359 --> 01:32:08,239
Speaker 1: The exercise I give clients, or the thought experiment, is

1522
01:32:08,399 --> 01:32:12,159
if an alien was watching your house growing up or

1523
01:32:12,359 --> 01:32:15,920
now whenever for like a month, and they had to

1524
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:20,159
make a report to their supervisors about what this human

1525
01:32:20,239 --> 01:32:24,600
family's values were or belief system or religion based on

1526
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:26,960
what they talked about, how they spent their time, what

1527
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:30,520
they made decisions based on what would that actually look like,

1528
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:35,720
which can be very different than the religion your family

1529
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:42,199
ascribes to. Maybe like verbalized values, and that can be

1530
01:32:42,199 --> 01:32:45,439
a very interesting thought experiment to have.

1531
01:32:46,159 --> 01:32:47,159
Speaker 2: I think that's a great way.

1532
01:32:47,239 --> 01:32:49,319
Speaker 3: I think that's really interesting, in a great way to

1533
01:32:49,359 --> 01:32:54,439
help somebody really really think about what were the rules

1534
01:32:54,439 --> 01:32:57,680
in my family, whether they were spoken or unspoken, and

1535
01:32:57,720 --> 01:33:00,119
how does that contribute to values and what I I

1536
01:33:00,119 --> 01:33:02,319
thought my family thought was the most important thing.

1537
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:05,000
Speaker 2: And how's that influencing me now.

1538
01:33:05,680 --> 01:33:09,720
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly and what impact is that having? And so

1539
01:33:09,760 --> 01:33:11,720
I feel like going over and a lot of and

1540
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:14,920
like Brittany said, like a lot of people don't think

1541
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:19,920
about values. They don't because again, they are almost implicit

1542
01:33:20,119 --> 01:33:22,760
in a lot of different ways, and so there's a

1543
01:33:22,760 --> 01:33:25,439
lot of things that we just don't consider. And I

1544
01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:28,840
feel like it would be a place that would be

1545
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:34,680
not easier to start with Everett, but maybe a little

1546
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:40,000
bit in terms of because he's grieving, using values is

1547
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:42,399
something that's a little bit more concrete.

1548
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:46,359
Speaker 1: And also I have it's like worksheets, yes and like right,

1549
01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:50,079
so like it also is very structured.

1550
01:33:50,159 --> 01:33:53,399
Speaker 3: Yes, which he probably would need, which he probably would

1551
01:33:53,439 --> 01:33:55,600
need based on the fact that he's grieving. So I

1552
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:58,359
think that is also another way that values I think

1553
01:33:58,399 --> 01:33:59,800
would be really helpful with that.

1554
01:34:01,039 --> 01:34:01,520
Speaker 2: All right.

1555
01:34:02,319 --> 01:34:07,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm want to work with Meredith, and kind

1556
01:34:07,199 --> 01:34:09,880
of the long and the short of my treatment is

1557
01:34:11,319 --> 01:34:15,760
that I would want to make sure I appropriately assessed

1558
01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:20,520
her in my work with her. Yeah, because like I said,

1559
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:24,279
there's a part of me that thinks this might be

1560
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:30,199
just like full blown, raging anxiety, but she's high functioning,

1561
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:34,560
so it's just kind of run rampant or just been

1562
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:38,640
really solidified inside of her that like anxiety is the

1563
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:40,439
proper way to live, or the way that she lives

1564
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:42,279
is the appropriate way to live or the correct way

1565
01:34:42,319 --> 01:34:46,560
to live to get what you want right versus is

1566
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:48,399
this like a family kind of what we're talking about,

1567
01:34:48,399 --> 01:34:49,920
like a family's values.

1568
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:51,439
Speaker 2: How I got my needs met.

1569
01:34:52,079 --> 01:34:57,960
Speaker 1: And I've just never strayed from that, which is anxiety provoking,

1570
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:01,960
but different than having anxiety in the way that like

1571
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:09,520
my brain's overproducing anxiety versus to be real like autism. Yeah,

1572
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:12,920
there's a website called Embrace Autism dot com I think

1573
01:35:12,920 --> 01:35:19,600
it's dot com or dot org, And it is a

1574
01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:23,920
website that was actually referred to me by a client

1575
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:27,359
who was considering autism for themselves, and so it is

1576
01:35:27,479 --> 01:35:32,399
a resource that I will sometimes refer to people if

1577
01:35:32,399 --> 01:35:37,000
they're speculating if they might be on the spectrum because

1578
01:35:37,079 --> 01:35:42,640
it's run by a lot of licensed clinicians, and as

1579
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:45,279
much as it's like assessments you can take to see

1580
01:35:45,279 --> 01:35:48,520
if you're anywhere on the spectrum, it also is a

1581
01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:55,439
lot of it's an educational website about the ins and

1582
01:35:55,479 --> 01:35:59,279
outs of the assessments themselves, so it's as much a

1583
01:35:59,279 --> 01:36:03,000
website for like clinicians and researchers, I think, as it

1584
01:36:03,079 --> 01:36:06,840
is for people who just want to take a quick

1585
01:36:07,359 --> 01:36:09,960
assessment to see if maybe they're on the spectrum.

1586
01:36:10,279 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 2: And also.

1587
01:36:12,279 --> 01:36:15,119
Speaker 1: It doesn't diagnose you with autism, like you take one

1588
01:36:15,119 --> 01:36:17,039
of those tests and you're like, I got autism. I

1589
01:36:17,199 --> 01:36:22,600
usually recommend it to clients if they're speculating and we're

1590
01:36:22,920 --> 01:36:25,199
trying to decide if we want to rule that out

1591
01:36:25,239 --> 01:36:26,359
as a possibility because.

1592
01:36:26,159 --> 01:36:29,439
Speaker 2: Maybe they take these assessments and it doesn't ding any.

1593
01:36:29,279 --> 01:36:33,239
Speaker 1: Bells, or to be like, Okay, it looks like there's

1594
01:36:33,239 --> 01:36:35,680
a heavy possibility you could be on the spectrum. Do

1595
01:36:35,720 --> 01:36:39,000
we want to go to the actual step of being diagnosed,

1596
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:45,560
which is a neuropsych test NEST, which can be expensive

1597
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:51,039
and along wait list and a lot of time and money.

1598
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:56,920
And also we're in a awful political landscape right now

1599
01:36:57,039 --> 01:37:00,600
where there are, in my opinion, threats being made by

1600
01:37:00,720 --> 01:37:04,039
like RFK Junior that they're going to make like an

1601
01:37:04,079 --> 01:37:10,439
autism directory of people, which is crazy. And so I

1602
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:14,199
also think people right now are more skittish about getting

1603
01:37:14,239 --> 01:37:17,800
her SYDE tested because they don't want to be on

1604
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:20,479
a fucking list, and that we don't trust how that

1605
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:23,800
was still be used. So that is something that comes

1606
01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:26,239
up in conversations too when I talk to clients about

1607
01:37:26,239 --> 01:37:32,479
getting officially assessed. So something like embrace autism can be,

1608
01:37:33,119 --> 01:37:39,680
like I said, more of a filtering tool for if

1609
01:37:40,479 --> 01:37:44,520
you would or would not maybe be on the spectrum

1610
01:37:44,720 --> 01:37:47,000
more subtly. Because also I think with someone like Meredith,

1611
01:37:47,880 --> 01:37:53,159
I think she also fits the criteria or the I

1612
01:37:53,199 --> 01:37:58,199
think Meredith fits the persona. I don't know if that's

1613
01:37:58,239 --> 01:38:00,920
right what I mean, but of some one who like

1614
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:05,239
she's a woman who's high functioning, has success in very

1615
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:07,760
specific parts of her life that we.

1616
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:09,279
Speaker 2: Tend to take more seriously.

1617
01:38:10,279 --> 01:38:12,239
Speaker 1: It's sort of like you can't have ADHD you have

1618
01:38:12,279 --> 01:38:15,239
good grades, which is why I didn't diagnosed with AHD

1619
01:38:15,359 --> 01:38:19,159
till I was thirty seven. And so that's part of

1620
01:38:19,199 --> 01:38:23,279
why a lot of women are getting diagnosed with autism

1621
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:27,399
and ADHD but autism later on in life is because

1622
01:38:27,439 --> 01:38:31,840
they don't fit this idea of what autism looks like, because,

1623
01:38:32,439 --> 01:38:35,560
believe it or not, a lot of autism studies and

1624
01:38:35,640 --> 01:38:39,439
why and how autism presents was based on boys and

1625
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:44,600
men male presenting people. Surprising, and a lot of the

1626
01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:47,319
components of how autism shows up in women and girls,

1627
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:52,920
female presenting people was just not even considered because they

1628
01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:57,520
didn't fit the way that male presenting people show autism.

1629
01:38:58,359 --> 01:39:01,920
So where I'm going with that is the ability to

1630
01:39:02,279 --> 01:39:08,119
mask is a big part of female presenting autism, which

1631
01:39:08,159 --> 01:39:11,640
that just means like I can put on a mask

1632
01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:15,000
that helps me fit in and assimilate, so I can

1633
01:39:15,000 --> 01:39:17,119
make eye contact and I can smile, and I can

1634
01:39:17,159 --> 01:39:22,760
be affable and quote unquote fit in ish because I'm

1635
01:39:22,760 --> 01:39:25,279
playing a part. But it's not authentic. It's like we

1636
01:39:25,279 --> 01:39:27,359
were I talked about earlier, it's a script. It's a

1637
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:30,600
role that you're in. So also, someone on the spectrum

1638
01:39:31,279 --> 01:39:37,439
can present really well, present as if they're neurotypical because

1639
01:39:37,880 --> 01:39:41,119
they can, like in the where she's telling the story

1640
01:39:41,119 --> 01:39:43,840
about how they met. If you got that version of Meredith,

1641
01:39:44,239 --> 01:39:47,279
you'd be like, Oh, she's great, she's friendly, she's relaxed,

1642
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:51,479
she's sociable, she can make eye contact, she's like expressive,

1643
01:39:52,119 --> 01:39:54,560
which is very different than the Meredith you see the

1644
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:56,640
rest of the movie, with the exception of when she

1645
01:39:56,680 --> 01:39:58,439
gets shit faced and then all of a sudden the

1646
01:39:58,439 --> 01:40:01,199
falls off to that because even say the scene in

1647
01:40:01,239 --> 01:40:04,399
which Ben is trying to show her how to relax

1648
01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:10,840
and she just starts mimicking him literally, that also feels

1649
01:40:10,840 --> 01:40:13,680
like someone on the spectrum being like, Okay, I just

1650
01:40:13,720 --> 01:40:17,640
need to learn the rules of being relaxed and then

1651
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:19,359
I can do it, which, like I said, and this,

1652
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:22,800
so I'd want to know the difference. I'd want to

1653
01:40:22,840 --> 01:40:26,279
assess the difference of this because it could really impact

1654
01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:30,800
how I would contextualize my work with Meredith, because if

1655
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:33,880
it's more anxiety, we might go the route of like,

1656
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:35,800
does she need to be on anxiety medication and get

1657
01:40:36,279 --> 01:40:38,760
and get seen by a psychiatrist. Do we need to

1658
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:42,800
talk about more like CBT skills and how to sit

1659
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:46,119
in discomfort of being anxious? Do we need to maybe

1660
01:40:46,119 --> 01:40:52,399
do values work and see where her rigidity is actually

1661
01:40:52,399 --> 01:40:54,520
getting in the way. It's more for values, similar to

1662
01:40:54,520 --> 01:40:58,359
what people do when they suffer from OCD and how

1663
01:40:58,399 --> 01:41:01,239
your anxiety is calling a lot of the shots. Does

1664
01:41:01,279 --> 01:41:04,159
that feel okay to you? And is that actually going

1665
01:41:04,159 --> 01:41:08,399
against your values? And that doesn't feel good? Because I

1666
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:11,359
would imagine a lot of the things that she does

1667
01:41:12,359 --> 01:41:16,319
has that conflict to it versus if she's more on

1668
01:41:16,359 --> 01:41:21,800
the autism spectrum, is it I don't understand how what

1669
01:41:21,880 --> 01:41:25,319
the things I do make other people feel. Yeah, like

1670
01:41:25,560 --> 01:41:26,920
with the phone call on the very thing of the

1671
01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:28,520
movie when she's telling that person, well, you have to

1672
01:41:28,600 --> 01:41:32,159
change to Christmas plans. I don't know if she is

1673
01:41:32,159 --> 01:41:34,439
on the spectrum. Could that just be where she just

1674
01:41:34,479 --> 01:41:40,159
biffs it because she doesn't understand socially why that's such

1675
01:41:40,199 --> 01:41:43,600
a hardcore thing to ask of someone.

1676
01:41:44,159 --> 01:41:46,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and.

1677
01:41:46,279 --> 01:41:48,880
Speaker 1: It's coming from a more for lack of a better

1678
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:55,399
way of putting it, clueless perspective, not from a callous perspective, yeah,

1679
01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:58,640
or a controlling, anxiety written perspective.

1680
01:41:58,720 --> 01:42:00,399
Speaker 2: It's just truly like.

1681
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:03,960
Speaker 1: The point is sailing past my head. And so if

1682
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:07,399
she was more on the autism spectrum, that would change

1683
01:42:07,399 --> 01:42:10,600
how we would discuss the choices that she makes. I

1684
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:14,520
might have to do more like social skills foundational work

1685
01:42:14,520 --> 01:42:19,479
with her, you know how she like, we might have

1686
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:23,239
to work on flexibility together because also her rigidity could

1687
01:42:23,239 --> 01:42:25,880
be a component of that. I only like to dress

1688
01:42:25,880 --> 01:42:28,000
a certain way, I like to be a certain way.

1689
01:42:28,119 --> 01:42:30,560
I like to follow these certain rules, and when you

1690
01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:33,760
enter into a different family, you can't do that.

1691
01:42:34,319 --> 01:42:35,479
Speaker 2: You can't expect.

1692
01:42:35,159 --> 01:42:38,439
Speaker 1: Everyone to follow your rules. And so when I work

1693
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:40,880
with people on the spectrum, a lot of it is

1694
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:47,319
what is your window of tolerance for flexibility? And the

1695
01:42:47,359 --> 01:42:52,000
point of that isn't that people on the spectrum are

1696
01:42:52,039 --> 01:42:54,520
capable of being more flexible and they're choosing not to

1697
01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:58,079
be in those moments. It can also be more like

1698
01:42:59,119 --> 01:43:02,680
what's the level of disability you can tolerate? And then

1699
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:07,439
how do you help yourself when you feel yourself getting

1700
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:10,520
to an intolerable level? Like do you need to go

1701
01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:13,760
take breaks? Do you need to bring like a comfort

1702
01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:17,000
object with you? Do you need to let other people

1703
01:43:17,079 --> 01:43:20,960
know that you're autistic and that that's why you're dressing

1704
01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:23,920
the way you're dressing, or you're holding yourself the way

1705
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:26,800
you are, or you want to eat this instead of that,

1706
01:43:28,359 --> 01:43:31,920
you know, it also helps people who care about you

1707
01:43:33,479 --> 01:43:37,079
have a better context and hopefully can be more compassionate

1708
01:43:37,159 --> 01:43:42,039
and forgiving and caring and patient around that context versus

1709
01:43:42,279 --> 01:43:45,560
Meredith is a real pill. Yeah, it's a lot, you

1710
01:43:45,560 --> 01:43:48,800
know how Meredith is. It's more like, well, like, can

1711
01:43:48,920 --> 01:43:50,800
we can we give her the certain things that she

1712
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:55,520
needs because she's making an effort just being here and

1713
01:43:55,560 --> 01:43:58,960
being here on our terms? So how can we meet

1714
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:02,640
her where she's at? And so that's where I'm gonna

1715
01:44:02,680 --> 01:44:05,720
end with treatment actually, because like I said, until I

1716
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:09,880
discerned that I that would dictate where I would go.

1717
01:44:10,359 --> 01:44:13,960
But Mareth, it does feel like someone who might ring

1718
01:44:14,039 --> 01:44:17,399
my bells my little intente as a therapist of like, oh,

1719
01:44:17,439 --> 01:44:20,159
are you like undercover on the spectrum? But because you

1720
01:44:20,239 --> 01:44:24,720
are so you meet the beauty standard, you're so financially successful,

1721
01:44:25,680 --> 01:44:28,920
you have found a career path that really works with

1722
01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:33,399
the way that your brain works. Have you just like

1723
01:44:34,279 --> 01:44:37,479
figured out how to make life work for you? But

1724
01:44:38,319 --> 01:44:40,840
you're doing things like the throat clearing thing, like is

1725
01:44:40,840 --> 01:44:41,479
that a stem?

1726
01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:41,760
Speaker 2: You know?

1727
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:43,479
Speaker 1: There are certain things about her where I'm like oof,

1728
01:44:43,560 --> 01:44:49,319
Like I would want to rule out being on the spectrum.

1729
01:44:48,159 --> 01:44:51,000
M M, because, like I said, treating it like it's

1730
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:55,239
just anxiety might be really unfair. Yeah, because I was

1731
01:44:55,279 --> 01:44:58,359
gonna say the differences you would be treating like coping

1732
01:44:58,399 --> 01:45:00,000
skills and like breathing.

1733
01:44:59,640 --> 01:45:02,800
Speaker 2: Skills and like and like that kind of.

1734
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:09,159
Speaker 1: Stuff, versus helping support her with social experiences, Yeah, which

1735
01:45:09,199 --> 01:45:11,680
still would probably include the skills work too, but I

1736
01:45:12,119 --> 01:45:15,600
but I might do more somatic things of like how

1737
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:18,039
are you aware of your body? About how when you're

1738
01:45:18,079 --> 01:45:21,760
getting too tense and you're about to fucking snap, Especially

1739
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:25,359
if you're someone that's good at masking and people pleasing,

1740
01:45:25,960 --> 01:45:28,920
is you don't build a lot of awareness of how

1741
01:45:28,960 --> 01:45:31,159
you actually feel, which is already hard if you're on

1742
01:45:31,239 --> 01:45:34,880
the spectrum. And so it would be a lot more

1743
01:45:34,920 --> 01:45:36,920
of that work, like are you carrying at tension in

1744
01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:38,640
your body? Are you even aware of that the fact

1745
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:41,840
that you're doing that? And so that's what I would

1746
01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:45,640
be curious to do with Meredith for sure. All right,

1747
01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:47,720
I'll take one more break here and we've back with

1748
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:52,000
final thoughts. I can go first, because you love this

1749
01:45:52,039 --> 01:45:53,800
movie so much, Hannah, and I feel like we always

1750
01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:58,760
have the person who loves the movie the most speak lass, Yeah.

1751
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:01,000
Speaker 2: I do love this movie. This movie is wild. This

1752
01:46:01,079 --> 01:46:01,920
movie is.

1753
01:46:05,319 --> 01:46:08,159
Speaker 1: Caucasiity at his finest, as they would say, just white

1754
01:46:08,199 --> 01:46:11,640
people really running them up. The fact that at the

1755
01:46:11,680 --> 01:46:15,079
next holiday season, I would love I would love to

1756
01:46:15,159 --> 01:46:18,159
be a fly on the wall at Meredith and Julie's

1757
01:46:18,159 --> 01:46:22,960
families when both Ben and Ever showing up like they're

1758
01:46:23,000 --> 01:46:25,720
gonna be at each other's family events forever, no matter

1759
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:30,000
what family they're at. So this movie is fucking bananas

1760
01:46:30,039 --> 01:46:32,800
with that. I do know that it's coming under the

1761
01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:37,720
context of like a rom com where this everyone has

1762
01:46:37,760 --> 01:46:40,680
to be partnered up in something in some form or fashion,

1763
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:44,640
even Amy with like her high school boyfriend or whatever.

1764
01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:48,079
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, but I will say.

1765
01:46:47,880 --> 01:46:51,319
Speaker 1: Like it's still a very warm movie. I think it's

1766
01:46:51,319 --> 01:46:53,600
a very good Christmas movie. I love that it's a

1767
01:46:53,680 --> 01:46:57,840
more modern classic, that it's a movie that's becoming that's

1768
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:00,560
become a holiday movie, kind of like The Holiday Actually,

1769
01:47:00,680 --> 01:47:04,399
like these more modern movies that are becoming holiday staples.

1770
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:08,279
I think it is a really fun movie, even though

1771
01:47:08,319 --> 01:47:11,359
watching it this time I got very annoyed because I had.

1772
01:47:11,239 --> 01:47:12,359
Speaker 2: To put my therapist hat on.

1773
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:17,720
Speaker 1: I love how relaxed and a lot of how lived

1774
01:47:17,720 --> 01:47:19,600
in the movie feels. It made me love like set

1775
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:23,319
dressing and how warm and cozy the movie is. And

1776
01:47:23,439 --> 01:47:26,720
I also feel like this movie is a great masterclass

1777
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:31,319
in familial chemistry, like adult siblings with each other, like

1778
01:47:31,359 --> 01:47:32,920
when they smack each other on the back of the head.

1779
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:34,960
The fact that Amy is also part of that. It's

1780
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:36,680
not like the boys act like this and the girls

1781
01:47:36,680 --> 01:47:41,399
act like that that, like Amy is a rascal too

1782
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:45,439
with Ben, Yes, And I think it's a very good

1783
01:47:45,720 --> 01:47:48,680
demonstration of that. I usually cried and cry this time,

1784
01:47:48,760 --> 01:47:51,159
I think because of the fact that we were watching

1785
01:47:51,199 --> 01:47:54,880
it in our therapist mode. But I usually cry when

1786
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:57,479
she gives her the picture and she says that's me

1787
01:47:57,560 --> 01:48:01,039
and me and Mayor. I'm usually like, oh boohoo hoo.

1788
01:48:01,079 --> 01:48:03,880
I probably we want to watch it for Christmas this year,

1789
01:48:03,960 --> 01:48:06,119
because even though this is a Christmas episode that's coming

1790
01:48:06,119 --> 01:48:08,800
out during Christmas time, it is November ninth right now

1791
01:48:09,119 --> 01:48:12,520
as of recording this, so we're not quite there yet.

1792
01:48:13,319 --> 01:48:17,359
And also something we haven't said, which was just purely coincidental,

1793
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:20,840
because we've been planning to this movie all year. We

1794
01:48:20,880 --> 01:48:26,000
schedule our movie list, we like make our movie list

1795
01:48:26,079 --> 01:48:28,600
in the beginning of the calendar year, so we were

1796
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:30,800
going to do the family Stone all year. But the

1797
01:48:30,800 --> 01:48:33,520
fact that we're doing it the year that Diane Keaton

1798
01:48:33,600 --> 01:48:38,680
has just passed, and this movie is about Diane Keaton passing. Yeah,

1799
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:41,439
I do want to name that this was just a

1800
01:48:41,880 --> 01:48:43,239
serendipitous coincidence.

1801
01:48:43,479 --> 01:48:43,960
Speaker 2: We weren't.

1802
01:48:44,279 --> 01:48:46,399
Speaker 1: We didn't do this movie because dian Keaton just passed.

1803
01:48:46,399 --> 01:48:48,239
It just happened to be that way. But it did

1804
01:48:48,239 --> 01:48:51,039
add a little extra layer of like, uugh, because Diane

1805
01:48:51,079 --> 01:48:53,520
Keaton and Hannah knows this because she's met my mom.

1806
01:48:53,800 --> 01:48:57,239
Her mannerisms and the way she is and even her

1807
01:48:57,279 --> 01:48:59,880
haircut remind especially this movie when say so much.

1808
01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:00,800
Speaker 2: Of my mom.

1809
01:49:02,159 --> 01:49:04,920
Speaker 1: That it does feel like it gives me a little

1810
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:06,760
extra tug in my heart to know she's no longer

1811
01:49:06,800 --> 01:49:10,359
with us. Also, my mom loves Daryan Keaton movies. So Mom,

1812
01:49:10,399 --> 01:49:12,399
I'm sure listening because this is a movie that you've

1813
01:49:12,439 --> 01:49:13,359
seen a bunch of times.

1814
01:49:14,319 --> 01:49:20,479
Speaker 2: Merry Christmas to you. But yeah, like, I love this movie.

1815
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:21,479
I'll watch it a bunch of times.

1816
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:23,159
Speaker 1: It's one of those movies that you just accept as

1817
01:49:23,199 --> 01:49:27,000
bat shit crazy, yes, and you love it anyway, or

1818
01:49:27,039 --> 01:49:29,720
you love it because it is I love the scene

1819
01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:34,680
where they get shit faced in the bar. Yes, you know,

1820
01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:36,239
and she's like, do you get a little pot, Like

1821
01:49:36,319 --> 01:49:38,520
this movie is great and I'm sure you love it,

1822
01:49:38,560 --> 01:49:40,279
Hannah because you watch it a thousand times, so I

1823
01:49:40,279 --> 01:49:41,039
can give you the floor.

1824
01:49:41,800 --> 01:49:42,600
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.

1825
01:49:43,279 --> 01:49:45,840
Speaker 3: Yes, I love this movie. I saw this movie in

1826
01:49:45,880 --> 01:49:49,720
the movie theater when it came out. I saw it

1827
01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:54,159
with some of my siblings, and it's definitely become a

1828
01:49:54,239 --> 01:49:58,680
movie that we watch at our family holiday get together

1829
01:49:59,680 --> 01:50:03,439
and so I really enjoy this film. I think they

1830
01:50:03,479 --> 01:50:06,560
did a really I think they did a really good

1831
01:50:06,680 --> 01:50:12,159
job of showing sibling relationships and what they can look

1832
01:50:12,199 --> 01:50:15,279
like as adults, and also in that chemistry that they

1833
01:50:15,279 --> 01:50:17,960
all have together, Like it really felt like you were

1834
01:50:17,960 --> 01:50:21,960
with this family who was really close, even though it

1835
01:50:22,039 --> 01:50:25,560
is batshit crazy, because it totally is, especially the.

1836
01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:29,359
Speaker 2: Julie Meredith Ben.

1837
01:50:29,680 --> 01:50:32,279
Speaker 3: Thing, like that's yeah, fuck, I could have lived with

1838
01:50:32,319 --> 01:50:35,159
a person. It reminds me of I could have too.

1839
01:50:35,239 --> 01:50:38,720
It reminds me of Captain America. The only other girl

1840
01:50:38,760 --> 01:50:42,000
he dated is the niece of.

1841
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:43,079
Speaker 2: The woman he was in love with.

1842
01:50:43,600 --> 01:50:48,159
Speaker 1: Like, this is not helpful, this is not it didn't

1843
01:50:48,199 --> 01:50:53,640
feel it felt really silly and also really like movie

1844
01:50:53,840 --> 01:50:57,239
magic made up that they would all just have fine,

1845
01:50:57,279 --> 01:50:59,720
regular relationships after the mom passed.

1846
01:51:00,319 --> 01:51:02,319
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I do speak with those people.

1847
01:51:02,960 --> 01:51:05,560
Speaker 1: The Evert and Jewelie thing, I wonder if that would

1848
01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:08,720
have happened in a movie being made today. Yeah, I

1849
01:51:08,760 --> 01:51:11,680
do like the the Meredith Ben stuff. I feel like

1850
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:18,039
that storytelling wise works as like a catalyst for Meredith

1851
01:51:18,359 --> 01:51:21,760
and like her transformation or her arc over the story.

1852
01:51:22,439 --> 01:51:25,039
But I feel like the Evert and Jewlie thing I

1853
01:51:25,079 --> 01:51:28,640
don't need. I didn't need it. I didn't need them

1854
01:51:28,680 --> 01:51:31,840
to have their like magical things.

1855
01:51:31,880 --> 01:51:32,840
Speaker 2: It makes everything.

1856
01:51:33,479 --> 01:51:38,880
Speaker 1: It makes Evert look bad, really bad, like a sloppy bitch. Yes,

1857
01:51:39,199 --> 01:51:43,000
and so that part him running after the bus, I'm like.

1858
01:51:43,039 --> 01:51:44,119
Speaker 2: Get a grip.

1859
01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:47,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's the part that hasn't aged well, and

1860
01:51:47,560 --> 01:51:50,520
that feels like it gets worse and worse age wise,

1861
01:51:51,119 --> 01:51:56,319
Oh everything else it is very colorable. Yeah, I feel

1862
01:51:56,359 --> 01:52:04,560
like everything everything else yeah, feels natural, feels relatable, feels so. Yeah.

1863
01:52:04,600 --> 01:52:08,439
Speaker 3: So I love this movie and I'll watch it a

1864
01:52:08,479 --> 01:52:10,800
thousand more times. And yes, I probably know all the

1865
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:16,640
dialogue to it. I definitely watch it every year, and yeah,

1866
01:52:16,720 --> 01:52:19,920
and I hope that you all enjoy it as well.

1867
01:52:20,159 --> 01:52:24,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, So as always, if you would like to find

1868
01:52:24,319 --> 01:52:28,600
us off the podcast, you can find us at Facebook, Instagram,

1869
01:52:28,600 --> 01:52:32,039
and TikTok at popcorn Psychology. You can always email us

1870
01:52:32,079 --> 01:52:35,760
at popcornpsychologygmail dot com if you would like to support

1871
01:52:35,880 --> 01:52:37,960
us for a little bit of moolah, which I know

1872
01:52:38,039 --> 01:52:40,720
is hard to come by right now, so don't worry

1873
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:44,000
if you don't have it, you can always sponsor us

1874
01:52:44,119 --> 01:52:46,880
via Patreon. If you're a fifty dollars or more patren

1875
01:52:46,920 --> 01:52:50,199
you get to choose the subject of an episode. If

1876
01:52:50,239 --> 01:52:52,960
you are only like a five to ten dollars patron,

1877
01:52:53,119 --> 01:52:57,640
you get access to early and edited episodes if you

1878
01:52:57,680 --> 01:53:02,000
would like to sponsor us. If you'd like to support

1879
01:53:02,079 --> 01:53:04,319
us for free, though, you can always leave us a

1880
01:53:04,399 --> 01:53:07,199
rating and review. Wherever you listen to podcasts, we see them,

1881
01:53:07,319 --> 01:53:10,560
we appreciate them. If we have the ability to comment back,

1882
01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:13,920
we do, and we really appreciate everyone hanging in there,

1883
01:53:14,279 --> 01:53:17,119
and I hope everyone is able to have a peaceful

1884
01:53:17,159 --> 01:53:18,520
holiday as best as they can.

1885
01:53:18,640 --> 01:53:20,279
Speaker 2: It's a trying time right now.

1886
01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:25,720
Speaker 1: It's hard financially, it's hard systemically, and I hope everyone's

1887
01:53:25,800 --> 01:53:28,359
able to find some comfort with the people that they love,

1888
01:53:28,399 --> 01:53:30,720
whether that's your family or your chosen family.

1889
01:53:31,279 --> 01:53:32,119
Speaker 2: Happy holidays,