Speaker 1: Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster
movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Brittany Brownfield and
I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by.
Speaker 2: Ben Stover, individual therapist.
Speaker 3: Hannah Espinoza, marriage and family therapists.
Speaker 1: We're all licensed clinical professional counselors also known as therapists,
who practice out of Chicago. Even though we are licensed
mental health professionals, this podcast is purely for entertainment purposes
and to fulfill our love of dissecting pop culture and
all forms. Please remember that, even though we are all
licensed therapists, we aren't your therapist.
Speaker 3: If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find
a local mental health provider.
Speaker 2: Oh that's loud as hell.
Speaker 3: Happy Holidays. Today we're going to be doing the Family Stone.
We are recording over zoom, which we have not done
in maybe two years. We're also recording today without Ben.
Just happened to be the way things fell, So we
don't have our tech person. So if this sounds like shit,
that might be why. But hopefully in editing.
Speaker 2: Everything will be just fine. But just want to let
you guys know.
Speaker 1: That, Yeah, come to us with a spirit of generosity.
Yes please, just in case this episode sounds a little
different on the tech end.
Speaker 3: And I feel like The Family Stone has been requested
a couple of different times.
Speaker 2: In general.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to talk a little bit about what
the movie is about. The Family Stone is about a
family that is meeting the eldest son's girlfriend at Christmas
while also the mother. We found out that her cancer
is back and that it is terminal from the way
that everyone's acting in the in the movie, So that's
what the movie is about. We're going to talk about
Everett and Meredith's relationship first, and then we're going to
talk about family dynamics of course and treatment, and then
final thoughts. So the first thing we wanted to talk
about and jump into is Meredith and what in the
fuck is her deal?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because the I guess the conflict of the
movie is, yeah, you said, Everett's bringing home his girlfriend
Meredith and nobody likes her, and the only person who's
met her before the movie begins is the youngest sister,
well sibling, Amy, and she does not like Meredith at
all and is talking like mad shit before Meredith even
shows up. So or maybe right is Meredith shows up. Yeah,
so Meredith is I'm gonna put on my therapist cap
because I want to be very compassionate and that Meredith
comes off as a stereotypical neurotic person. And I guess
I should say too that neurotics not really a word
that therapists use. So when I say the word neurotic,
I feel like she's like the Hollywood version, like the
storytelling version of absolutely a person who's erotic, which is
a person who is uptight, anxiety ridden, inflexible, a lot
of little quirks. She does a throat clearing thing like
that that drives Amy insane with everybody else, and she
is introduced into the story as someone that we are
supposed to not like. Yeah, and so looking but looking
at her as a therapist. It was interesting watching this
as a therapist because I've only I've watched the movie
a bajillion times. Most people, it's very much a modern
Christmas classic that's that's held on and I'll be a
crystal movie people watch forever and ever and ever, and
trying to see Meredith through the eyes of a therapist,
not just someone watching it and being like, oh, she's
so annoying. Was interesting for me because I was putting
more of her behavior through the realm of anxiety and
rigidity versus, Wow, what a fucking bitch, because I think
that's what you're supposed to think about her at from
the start of the movie. That is, her role is
to be this like frigid, waspy bitch who doesn't understand
our family and has all these rigid conservative ideas about
sleeping in.
Speaker 2: The same bed and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But if you look at her from someone who is
trying to impress the family, Honestly, the way I was
kind of thinking of her differently, even if I take
out the anxiety piece, which I'm sure we'll get into more,
is it makes me curious about how she might be
doing that thing that people do where they assume every
family to a certain extent, has the same values that
they have, and so if I want to impress your family,
I'm going to subscribe to the values that I think
pleases parents, Like the not sleeping in the same bed
seem like a real example of that, Like the best
example of that, where she's refusing to sleep in the
same bed as ever it even though they are in
their late thirties early forties late thirties is generous, and
the whole family, including the parents, think it's ridiculous that
she's insisting upon this, but she can't let it go
to the point that she puts a me out of
her bedroom, which doesn't help. And in those moments, I
was like, why would someone do something like that if
I'm thinking of this as a therapist, And I'm like,
she must really that must be something that her family
cares about, her family's origin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I feel like that's something.
Speaker 3: The way that she felt almost like disgusted and like
not this is not proper, Like this is not proper,
I should not be doing this felt very old fashioned
in a way that it that I feel like she's
supposed to be a modern woman, and so that kind
of felt kind of off, but makes a lot of
sense when we think about it coming from her family
and her family of origin.
Speaker 2: And also I think something else.
Speaker 3: That Meredith's character has is she really wants to be respectful.
Speaker 1: Yes, she very seems to prioritize the value of that,
like politeness, manners like there's a way to do things, Yes,
like her being fully dressed at all times in the
house she's in heels in the morning. I think the
most casual thing she wears pre getting shit faced with
Ben is a black on black outfit or like workout outfit.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if it's that.
Speaker 1: It probably is slacks and a nice long sleeve shirt
from like not even Anne tail or, probably something nicer
than in tailor, so probably a brand I don't even
know because I'm not rich. Yeah, exactly like something she
got at Nord Shrums.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: But but she her hair's always done. She is never
out of place. When they're at the dinner and they're
eating pizza in the living room, she's wearing a full suit.
Speaker 2: She doesn't she seems uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: She doesn't eat anything, which could be her not wanting
to eat with her hands in front of these people
that she's to make a good impression off like, she
has this very rigid idea of how you make a
good impression, and the irony is is that it's so
rigid that it ends up causing a lot of problems
and she ends up making a really bad impression because
she can't flex this tight, tight, tight, tight idea, which
does make me so curious what her parents and her
family's like if she's from Bedford, Massachusetts, which I don't
know anything about, but the sort of assumption made in
the movie is that that means something that she's from there.
And also the stereotype about New England is like that waspy,
frigid oo upper class, like everything's done this very correct,
classist kind of way. And so my assumption is is
that a lot of this comes from that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely well, And I feel like I feel like
it definitely means something that she's from Bedford, because she
brings it up a couple of times, and I feel
like and I feel like she comes from because I
think and tell me what you think about this, because
I feel like with Everett and Meredith that they actually
both come from families that have a similar amount of
like wealth and comfort, yeah, in their life, Like it
seems like it's pretty consistent, especially considering that Julie could
take the bus to get there, which makes me feel
like they don't even live that far away from each other.
Speaker 2: I don't really know where she's coming from, where she's.
Speaker 3: Coming from their family, Chris, Oh, okay, you would know.
Speaker 1: Just everyone knows. Hannah has seen this movie about a
thousand times. So I will defer to you, Hannah, as
the expert of the facts of this movie, Thank you
very much. I will take on the honor as requested. Yes,
so I live close enough to travel by bus last
minute too, Like, it's not like her sister took a
Greyhound for hours and hours and hours and hours. Yeah,
I feel like it was like a four hour, three
to four hour like trip is all it is. So
Also like they grew up in similar areas with a
similar amount of wealth in their life, So I think
also Meredith is also making a lot of assumptions that
his family is going to be like hers. Yeah, and
also how when she is complaining about Amy to Ben
and she's like, I took Amy to the nicest restaurant
in like New York City and she didn't appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Which I thinks, which in one way is just.
Speaker 1: A general thing. I think people do that a lot.
They want to impress people with status stuff. And yeah,
also connect that to what we're talking about, which is
that Meredith has this rigid idea about what's.
Speaker 2: Impressive mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: And how, yeah, how you impress, how you make a
good first impression, which this family you and I were
talking about this is they're watching it. You're right, like,
I think this family is also very rich, well, very comfortable,
yes how I would think of it, but more the
liberal upper upstate New York, liberal upstate New York. Maybe
they're all like academics in some realm because.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well because she calls Kelly professor and so I
feel like that's because that's what he used to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, mm hm.
Speaker 1: And so they have that sort of vibe of people
who are almost like performatively progressive, yes, like her being
like I was on my ends and knees praying quote
a gay son. It's that that I feel like is
a perfect encapsulation of that type of rich white person.
And and on the outside though, you're right, like Meredith's
family and ever it's family if we're if our assumptions
are correct, are probably very similar on paper.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say so.
Speaker 3: So I feel like her making those assumptions makes a
lot of sense because they do come from a support place.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And as we'll talk about in a little bit, Everet
is contributing to this assumption, if if our theory is correct,
and that he is also doing that very posh Manhattan
like he's wearing a tie next to her while she's
wearing that suit, not eating her pizza, and his parents
was whole family gets on his ass for wearing a
tie when they're all in the house just chilling out.
And what also doesn't help Meredith is that Everett is
also adopting more of her sensibilities the way that he dresses,
you know, the way that he seems to be with her,
And so if she's assuming that his family is like him,
then of course she would assume that they're more like
her family. But you can see right away in the
scene where they are eating pizza that his family gets like,
in my opinion.
Speaker 2: Too agitated.
Speaker 1: But we'll talk about more about the fact that he's
wearing a tie next to her wearing her full suit,
so he is he is also not acting in a
way that his family recognizes. So I also can give
Meredith a bit of the benefit of out in Matt
context too, that she showed up a thinking one thing,
and then it's everything that she's doing that she thinks
as good as like totally biffing it, and then that
ratches up the tension. And then she does that thing
a lot of people do where they double down instead
of changing course. Yes, I think a prime example of
that is my least favorite scene in the whole movie,
because it makes me want to crawl out of my
fucking skin is when they're at the dinner table and
she I get what I think she thinks she's trying
to say about having a gay child, but she fucking
biffs it so hard, art so old, and then she
can't shut up when she couldn't get clear signals from
the family to stop, truly, And that just felt like
a heightening of what has been happening for her this
whole time. And I think that's a good way to
segue into well, what is also a problem for Meredith.
Like we were talking about her rigidity, which I'm curious
from you, like, where do you think that rigidity comes from,
because that rigidity isn't so much what we've been talking
about so far. That rigidity feels like something different. I
feel like her rigidity comes from wanting and needing to
have some sense of control. Whether that's I think we
get a pretty good glimpse of that, even just in
the beginning the opening scene of the film, where she's
on the phone with other people and she is demanding
that they change their holiday schedules to follow up with
whatever she needed them to do, and also her having
to something else that she says in that scene is well,
I want to see the PowerPoint before it gets sent out,
Like again, like this sense of I have to have
control of things. If I have control of things, then
everything will go okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything has to go on this way.
Speaker 1: And when she interrupts Everett to say what color the
scarf should be for his sister instead of the one
he picked out, even though he knows his sister and
she's only met her once, exists like uber controlling nature
that You're right, a lot of people get stuck into
because it is trying to gain control. Which is a
big facet of what I think is going on with
her is that she is a very high functioning, anxious person. Yes, absolutely,
and I don't know if that is from her her
family system.
Speaker 2: I also assume that she's the oldest daughter. Yeah, I
assume that's just the two of them, her and Julie. Yeah, yeah,
me too.
Speaker 3: But I assume that she's the oldest and that she
really a lot of times I feel like I find,
especially in oldest siblings, this sense of perfectionism in order
to keep everything quote unquote okay no matter if no
matter what that looks like like that can look like anything.
And so I really feel like And also I think
Meredith also has had the experience that a lot of
people have, which is people like it when you have
a lot of control over things like people. That is people,
you're successful, you know how to hold a meeting, you
know how to connect to these different people. You know,
she went over you know Everett's uh, how they might yeah,
how they met, which I think is wild. So and
then I think, yeah, I'll go ahead.
Speaker 2: Sorry.
Speaker 1: Well, and that's why I said high functioning anxious person,
because you're right, anxiety can serve purposes. I mean, technically,
anxiety does serve a purpose. That's why it exists. And
for some people, as we've talked about many times on
this podcast, the anxiety starts to turn a corner and
become too much. It is calling too many of the shots.
And there's a good amount of people where they you
can be very successful and have anxiety. And then also
you can overidentify with the behaviors that our anxious behaviors,
like over identify them being why you're successful. I would
argue that high functioning successful people who are anxious can
be the hardest sometimes to work with because they are,
for sure, which I get, that their anxious, controlling behaviors
are why they are successful, and that if they stop
doing those things that something bad will happen, whatever that means.
A lot of times there are exact people I'd be like,
what do you think you're key being at bay by
being so controlling, being such a perfectionist, working so hard,
being so rigid, And it's not really that those behaviors
are why you're successful. It's just that you don't know
what it's like to not do those things, and maybe
you would be just as successful if you didn't do
those things. And then also maybe you would feel better overall.
Because Marath isn't happy, no's for fucking sure, Yeah she's
I mean she's anxious all the time.
Speaker 3: I think she's anxious all the time. And that high
functioning I think is absolutely right. And since Ben isn't here,
I'm going to miss up. In parts work we talk
about there's firefighters, and there's managers, and managers help us
do things, managers help us follow through with things, and
all often our managers get us a lot of praise
from the outside because we can do all the things
like how did you do? You know, how did you
go to grad school and work a job and work
a second job like how we're And again, not that
Meredith would have to do any of these things, but
in terms of that's how that's a part of how
our system works inside well.
Speaker 1: And also her being a woman and what I assume
is probably a pretty male dominated field. That's just because
this movie is from what like twenty two thousand and
six roughly, Yeah, you know, and this probably does serve
her to be very pleasing. And also I'm sure she
probably was also the person who worked over the holidays
instead of going home if that needed to be done.
Maybe that's why he doesn't give as much of a
shit about other people having to change their schedules.
Speaker 2: Because I'm sure done it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if they push back, she was like, well, this
is part of being in the field, This is part
of the work.
Speaker 2: This is how you climb to the top.
Speaker 1: All that like corporate productivity bs, which someone like Meredith
can thrive in on paper because they are able to
adapt to it and to be whatever they need and
to work, work, work, work, work, and you're right, like,
it's very people pleasy. So then it also sends people
that message that they're doing the right thing. So then
when they come into therapy, it does feel incorrect when
the therapist is saying, maybe you shouldn't do those things,
because because they have been told that they've got Yeah,
you're right, they've gotten a lot of praise for working late,
working hard, making themselves fucking crazy, burning themselves out. Especially
I assume in whatever field they're in. It seems like
this high end corporate field of.
Speaker 2: Some sort something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which, like I said, those things get really rewarded.
That kind of behavior gets really rewarded. And then she's
doing that toxic thing, which is passing down that expectation
to the staff below her because that's what she did,
and that's just how things get done, and you have
to prioritize work, work, work. Even while she's she probably
feels like she's earned her ability to not have to
do that anymore, But then she does feel like someone
who probably would take a meeting at the Stone's house.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she had to, absolutely, absolutely, I totally agree with that,
and I feel like and I feel like one of
the things that Kelly says in the film that I
think is very poignant is that Meredith doesn't know who
she is. She's so busy being the super in control
person that I think it's hard to know like who
she is underneath thought of that, it's like this exterior
that she has to portray to the whole world.
Speaker 1: Well, when you're basing yourself and whether you're doing the
right thing or the wrong thing by other people's opinion
and approval of you, you don't know who you are.
You're not looking inward for that, you're looking outward. And
a lot of kids are raised that way, you know.
If we're going off of our assumption that she's part
of this like really waspy, rigid, toity toity family, so
much of that is also appearance based, status based, manners
based how you look like someone like Amy is so
challenging to someone like Meredith, and the way that your
family moves in that Amy is so messy and dresses
crazy and yeah, isn't worried about being likable, Maybe not
worried enough being likable. Another example, though, of what we're
talking about with family culture stuff too, is how uncomfortable
Meredith is with when they're talking about a May's sex
life and how she lost her virginity, and Meredith looks
like she's gonna like.
Speaker 2: Barf, yeah, basically, And I think that's.
Speaker 1: Not necessarily because of what they're talking about in general,
but I think because like, families don't talk like that.
Oh my god, I can't believe you're talking about something sexual, yeah,
in the family, even though everyone is an adult like well
like well into adulthood mm hmm, which, like I said,
it further pushes on my assumption that there's all these rules, yes,
and that Meredith has been a very good job of
following all the rules, and then she comes into a
family that has very different rules but still rules. Every
family has rules, very different rules, and she can't fucking
figure it out that. I think Meredith is a great
example of how someone can really be quote unquote successful
in one factor of their life but not be functioning
well in another factor of their life. Like I believe
that she is like dynamite successful in her field. She
probably makes a shit ton of money, Like I don't
doubt any of that, she has nice clothes.
Speaker 2: All that kind of shit.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised those heels that she has in the movie
don't have red bottoms on them, to be honest, and
maybe they couldn't get the Louis Baton branding, but maybe
she I think she does really suffer socially, and I
think that's a part of that rigidity too. I mean,
that's what the price you pay a lot of times
with being high functioning anxious is that you can you
will most likely suffer in another part of your life.
And I think for her it is socially. And I
also think that that throat clearing tick she has as
is a manifestation of how anxious she is all the time. Yes,
it's almost like a stemming tick anxiety thing. And I
wonder if she does it more in these social settings
where she doesn't feel as competent. Yes, I'm like, you
probably did it a lot more in that dinner with Amy.
And that's why Amy noticed It's so bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, why it was so prominent because she was so
anxious meeting Amy.
Speaker 1: And so when I get people in my office who
are high functioning and anxious, it usually is for one
of these reasons we're actually seeing with Meredith, I have
all this success, I have all this money, I'm on
paper got my shit together, and yet I can't keep
a relationship, or I can't get friendship as an adult,
or I'm fucking miserable all the time even though I
shouldn't be that. The long and the short of it
is that playing the game doesn't actually work out for
most people. It can get you success in one part
of your life, but like I said, her an ability
to practice more flexibility and to give up control, we're
seeing it impact her relationships absolutely, and even the fact
that the only person, which could just be the movie,
but the only person she talks about from a friend
perspective is her sister, Like we don't hear any friendships,
Like we don't really know anything about her social life
outside of her sister and her partner. And even how
she won Everett was by demonstrating her value in that
very rigid way that she has been demonstrating value.
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, and so also her not being able to
have any insight or awareness that she has other things
that are positive. But I do think I think you're
absolutely right. I feel like she struggles the most socially,
even when we just think about her telling the story
of how they met and how she wasn't waiting for
people to ask questions. It was just very she was monologuing.
She was literally modeling a script. Yes, like like when
you and I are watching it.
Speaker 1: I was positing a theory that she might be a
autism spectrum and part of that theory was that she
finally kind of opens up socially one she's able to
follow a script, which is something that's not atypical with
someone on the spectrum who struggles socially, is that if
they have to be more off the cuff improvy socially,
they can really struggle. But if there is a story,
a script, as we say, that they can follow that
gives them comfort and then they're kind of able to
flourish in a social situation or in a role like
we were saying. The way that she met Everett is
she got to stay in that role in which she
feels very competent and safe. But this family will not
allow her to stay in that role. And from jump,
she looks like she's gonna rip her fucking skin off,
and reason.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, she really really does.
Speaker 3: Do you think that a part of this is the
family wanting her to be more vulnerable And I'm not
really not being able to. I mean, we can talk
about it more and we get the family stuff.
Speaker 2: I think with the family.
Speaker 3: Like that's a part of what the family can't handle
is that she feels not genuine.
Speaker 1: And that could definitely it, Like the family could definitely
be because I think everyone knows how that feels when
someone is I mean, we have a word for it,
someone who's a try hard. When someone is trying too hard,
it makes most people will feel uncomfortable if they have
any sort of social intuition of their own. But again,
I don't like that it feels like the family is
punishing her for that instead of trying to meet her
where she's at. Because as much as she's stuck in
a role of her own making, they also stick her
in that role too, And then they're punishing her for
being in that role, which is shitty.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I'm not an.
Speaker 1: Amereicith apologist necessarily because she does put her fucking foot
in it. But looking at therapist's perspective, and I think
what also tells a lot about her rigidity and her
maybe lack of social intelligence or like innate social skills.
I think she doesn't have great social skills I'll just
say that off the rip, whether that's from anxiety, whether
it's she is on aufics and spectrum, whatever, she struggles
to adapt socially, she can't turn it when she's in
the family, like she can't do that thing a lot
of people can do, which is, oh, it's more relaxed here. Okay,
So I'll maybe I'll take my blazer off, maybe I'll
let my hair down. Metaphorically and literally, I'm uncomfortable sleeping
in the same room as Everett. But that does seem
to be how this family goes, and so YadA YadA.
Speaker 2: And also what I.
Speaker 1: Think is a piece of evidence towards what I'm speculating
is that as soon as it gets really uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: She fucking leaves.
Speaker 1: She goes to get a place at a hotel, which
is such a wild like declaration of war, almost like
in a situation and trying to make a good impression
on your partner's family. And as soon as there's like
a few things in a row that make you uncomfortable,
you bolt.
Speaker 2: Like literally literally and utterly running.
Speaker 1: I'm running away because Amy was mean to me in
the kitchen. It might also be to be quite frank
if she's only from a family of like one other
sibling who's a girl, like two sisters, I imagine I
don't know what it's like to just be in a
family with another sister. That was my fantasy growing up.
I come from a family more like this movie where
I have six younger siblings and they're all dudes. Where
the way that Amy is mean, Amy is mean, Yeah
she is, and she's also the fact that Meredith can't
shake it off or put it into context, I think
says a lot about maybe that she grew up in
an environment where there wasn't all this like sibling chaotic
kind of getting up each other's asses. Like I grew
up in that family where you tease the shit out
of each other, and there's a lot of like kind
of being hard on each other, and that's just part
of it. There's so many have siblings all growing up
really close in age, where you do take out a
lot of life on each other. And so she doesn't
also have any callous around that, Like she doesn't know
how to deal with Amy, and so she just bolts yep,
which I don't know what purpose that serves other than
I need to get out of this uncomfortable place.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just seems like a big reaction. It just
seems like a really big reaction to something.
Speaker 2: Because.
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, she's still spending almost
all of her time at the house.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think she does.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but she only goes there at night, oh yeah,
to go to sleep. So again, like, even though she's
sleeping somewhere else, she's not necessarily getting away from the
situation that she's finding herself in.
Speaker 2: But I think maybe being.
Speaker 3: Out of the house helps her probably feel less anxious.
Speaker 1: Well, also, if it's more her just being like no
one is house is following the script of how you
do this? I don't know how to make it work.
So I just got to get the fuck out of here.
Because also if I'm and now that we're talking about
this is I'm thinking about this specific situation. Amy is
a bitch. She's mean, but she's not really being that
mean in the moment. She's just saying I'm fine, I'm fine.
So she's not even being like, you fucking bitch, you
took my bed. She's just being cold and bitchy. Yeah,
And the fact that that's like the final straw from
Theredith is telling I think of her, Yeah, her like
discomfort and rigidity, and she can't control the situation. She
can't be good enough to fit in this family, so
I gotta go. I don't know how to swerve, which
is where like people do get stuck. Like I said,
there are certain parts of life, like work, especially from
the corporate field, where you can get in this lockdown
rigid almost like robody, vibe and.
Speaker 2: Do really well.
Speaker 1: The problem socially, though, is that it's like you're doing
improv with a billion other people, and it's chaotic and
it's messy, and it's emotional, and people aren't going to
say necessarily what you think they're going to say. You
can't rehearse for that part of life, and that is
why a lot of times, that's why people will come
into therapy who present like Meredith absolutely.
Speaker 2: So, is there.
Speaker 1: Anything more we want to say about Meredith before we
switch to Everett.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think I have anything else to share
about Meredith at this time.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's take a break here and we'll be back
to talk aboutever it. Okay.
Speaker 1: So the other part of this dynamic is Everett, And
as we were saying before, Everett is also playing a
role with Meredith. He's kind of doing that thing people
will do. It seems like where they match their partner
and what, Like I said, what makes us think that
is because his family gets so enraged.
Speaker 2: At him wearing a.
Speaker 1: Tie, as if he came home wearing a conservative flag shirt. Yes,
in their progressive home. How dare you? We're a Cardigan household,
not a tie household, you know.
Speaker 2: And I feel like.
Speaker 3: It really shows that Everett is not who the family.
He's not acting or looking like the effort that they know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we just get like a snapshot of this
family just like a few days before Christmas, and it
does seem to be that the way that ever it
is showing up is really a typical. And I don't
know if that's also why the family is so mean.
Like as much as I love this family, like they're
they're very like I'm thinking about how much they feel
everyone feels like they're allowed to tell Everett what they
think about his relationship and his life choices. Which, Yeah,
the kindest read I could take of that is what
you're saying that he's acting so atypical to the effort
they know that. It's almost like they're trying to save
him from a cult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they feel very they feel very.
Speaker 3: Scared, very scared that he's going to do something that
like is not going to make him happy. And I'm
really curious because what I feel like, and we talked
about this a little bit while we were recording, I
kind of feel like, I think that Everett has matched
his partner, matched Meredith for over the time that they've
been dating. And I think that maybe he has pulled
away from the family, which can be really common in
new relationships that somebody can just like not be as
engaged with their family because they're spending all the time
with this new person, right, And I feel like every
I feel like the family is mad at Everett and
they're taking it out on Meredith. Yeah, because she is
the perfect scapegoat for she's the new person, she's she's
they show her so uptight, like the fact that she
has her hair slicked back into a bond all the
time and always has a suit on and is always
like she is the epitome of like uptight. Like I
think that's what they really wanted us to feel from her,
And I feel like Everett's I feel like the family
is thinks that Meredith is reason why Everett is changing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the dad seems to be the one who
clocks it in the movie when he says to the
mom when they're laying in bed, Everett doesn't know who
he is and that's really what's going on. Yeah, and
that's something to be curious about with ever it then
this approach they're all taking, which is, yeah, taking it
out on Meredith and telling him what he can't do,
which historically, as most people know, it does not work,
especially if someone's doing something because they're feeling insecure or
they're trying to prove something. Is you coming at them
hard or confrontational, even if it's a gentle confrontational like
bad at the jewelry shop, because they're not really talking
about what they're really worried about. They're just acting like
Meredith is a monster, and she's not a monster. She's
just very different than them, Yeah, exactly, and Everett's different
with her. But is Everett not a grown man with
his own mind who is choosing someone like Meredith? And
if that is genuinely concerning, which I could definitely understand,
it's more about talking to Everett, which is why I
like the scene later on in the movie when he's
with Diane Keaton his mom Sybil in the kitchen after
everything's gone to total shit, absolutely, and she does say
to him, Hey, you don't have to get married. That
won't fix me being sick, and he does really break
down and start crying. And I don't I'd be curious if,
like everyone's real person that we talked to, like, how
much that does play a part into why he's doing
the things he's doing, because it's not uncommon even when
I think anecdotally into people i've known over my life,
for when someone is sick, something's going on in the
family to speed up milestones absolutely because they want to
do those milestones before that parent dies.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: They want them to be there. They want them to
be at the wedding, They want them to be a
part of it. They want to be able to have
those memories. And I think and I feel like, even
with Meredith's reaction to him asking and her kind of
surprise when she's talking to Julie, also feels like maybe
they haven't been dating that long. Hmmm, Like maybe they've
been dating for like I assume dans under a year.
If that's the first Christmas. Yeah, she's meeting exactly exactly,
So I also feel like.
Speaker 2: Her surprise is genuine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also too, I could see Foreverett and he
doesn't know who he is. Thing that Kelly says his dad,
is that a newer thing? And is that a side
effect or like an effect of the mom having been
very ill with cancer to the point where she got
like a masectomy, right, And at that point in the movie,
Everett and most of the kids think that she's in remission.
Speaker 2: But I can't imagine.
Speaker 1: I'd be curious how much that might have changed his
behavior or his like trajectory, having gone through something where
someone he loves is vulnerable and isn't going to live forever,
and how that does fuck us up and that can
create like an existential crisis. So it also makes me
wonder if part of why Everett is acting the way
he is and why the family is having such a
strong reaction, is this like very different.
Speaker 2: Has Everett always been someone who doesn't seem to know
who he.
Speaker 1: Is, or in like the past like year or two,
has he really gone like corporate She'll who never comes
home and is shellacking the shit out of his hair. Like,
that's an interesting costuming makeup thing.
Speaker 2: Over the course of the movie.
Speaker 1: Is in the very first scene his hair is like
shellacked true his head and then by the end it's.
Speaker 2: Truly sticking up at all ins yes, all over the place.
Speaker 1: And how Yeah, it just makes me curious how much
that has an impact on him. And then was he
trying to meet the right girl and like and then
be have all his shit together before his mom dies
or did that just like because we know over the
course of the movie that she is gonna pass soon,
but even before that he didn't know that part right,
But I still think having a parent be that close
to that and even if they get better, it can't
put people through an existential freak out where then they're like, oh,
death Israel. My parents are going to die one day,
maybe sooner rather than later. So time to get my
shit together and cross all these things off of my
list before that happens.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so who.
Speaker 1: Knows when he met Meredith in the in the in
the in the stream of that situation going on too,
But did she meet him right when he was in
this vulnerable who am I place?
Speaker 3: Well, it sounds like, well they reference back to him
wanting to go to that monastery, and that's what he
was going to go to.
Speaker 2: But then he met her. Oh yeah, and so you're right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So and then he brings that he's talking to Julie yeah,
which we will talk about in a moment. He also
brings that up there of like, yeah, like I was
going to go to see this place and then and
then I didn't And it's because he met Meredith.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And it feels like he just topped every part of
himself inside and was just like, I'm going to be
this We're going to be this corporate power couple something.
Speaker 2: Some perfect a couple. Yeah, but that's not him. It's
not him, And I guess go ahead, well and even and.
Speaker 3: I know that we're going to go into family dynamics,
so I don't want to talk about it too much.
And when you have a family that is this side,
well any family really doesn't really matter what the size
of the family is. But and you have one person
who is playing a completely different role than they've ever
played before, the family claps back pretty motherfuck and hard.
And I think that a part of that's a part
of the dynamic two. But again, everyone's projecting onto Meredith. Yeah,
because it almost feels like they can't be mad at Everett,
or they feel like they can't be mad at him
for whatever reason. And that could be because they are
historically so close and so maybe they haven't really had
to have the kind of hard conversation slash fights that
can come out of this kind of change. And it
is easier and safer to blame Meredith than to be
curious about why Everett is choosing someone like Meredith.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also, however, it is kind of he's a people
pleaser too in that he I think he finally gets mad.
It's ma at the family. When does he get mad
at the family?
Speaker 3: He gets mad at the family when she leaves for
these when she leaves, Yeah, when she leaves for the hotel,
he comes into the kitchen and is like, you take
your fangs out of her. Yeah, and you're going to
realize that she's just a fucking person that you all
are meeting.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And he was right to be mad.
Speaker 1: He was like senergy sooner, Yes, and like you and
I have talked before, this is make me think of
crazy rich Asians. Oh, he didn't prep her enough for
meeting his family. He wasn't born yesterday. He knows how
his family is, he knows how Meredith is. He unless
he's clueless, which he could be him not anticipating.
Speaker 3: He does seem yeah, disconnected, And I don't know if
it's just because Dermot Dermot malro Me is so good
at acting with his face, but I feel like he
seems really disconnected when he's with the family. He feels
really kind of like in his own like we really
only see him be comfortable when is when Ben says
something about his tie mm hmm, and like then like
he seems calm, like he points it out, like he
feels comfortable he's wearing this tie in front of his family,
but that there really aren't. He's pretty disconnected. And I
feel like we see him be more connected with Julie
and were present with Julie, which is a bunch of
fucking bullshit. When me and Brittany were watching this, we
were both like, this has got to be just like
a part of the movie, a part of everybody has
writing with somebody the writing of the film, because it
truly is insane, Well.
Speaker 2: That would happen.
Speaker 1: It's it's really doing a deserve a disservice to the
character of Everett, because which is the rom com of all.
I'm not trying to be a bitch about that. Yeah,
but that idea, because that his arc is that he
just falls in love with a different person and kind
of takes on her personality exactly. But I guess they're
arguing that her personality is more like what ever it
is authentically, But the arc that I would have loved
to see forever it is he figures out who he
is as a single man. Yea forever, maybe six months
to a year, that's not crazy and.
Speaker 2: Well, you finish your thought.
Speaker 1: And instead it just feels like he imprints on another woman,
which to me means that he's made no progress in
the course of the movie, even though the movie's trying
to tell us no, like this sister is his person
similar to they do the same thing with Meredith, which
is that the whole true love will save you and
heal your mental health problems. Yeah, so once she meets
Ben that she'll be able to like unclench and be.
Speaker 2: Relaxed, which is not real life, not.
Speaker 1: In the way that they show it, how much it
flips in the movie. Yeah, and so the movie does
ever dirty in writing his characters ending that way, and
I want to give him a more benefit of the
doubt if he was a real person, Yes, because honestly,
like I could see him jumping to this, and then
if I was this therapist being like okay, but I'd
keep my eye on it, I'd be like, Okay, are
we just doing the same thing absolutely another woman instead
of who am I when I'm by myself?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: And how you do need to figure that out to
be in a successful relationship mm hmmm, because then you
wake up one day and you're like, how am I
in this life? And how am I married to this person?
And how do I get here? And it's because you
weren't paying attention to who you were along the way exactly.
Speaker 3: And I think this is where we can also pull
in Foreverett the grief experience. Like something else that happens
when we lose a primary caregiver is that our identity
becomes different. We are different after we've lost a parent.
We've talked about this a bunch on the podcast in
the past. Whatever we've talked about grief, we talk about
how much you're you will never be the same person
that you are.
Speaker 2: Before a primary caregiver passes, you just won't.
Speaker 3: And I think what I feel the same way about Everett,
that I would really hope that he would take some
time not only like to manage grieving, but also take
some time to really learn who he is. Because even
when we see him open the drawer and he has
all those old trophies that he doesn't have out anymore, like, he.
Speaker 2: Just acts like.
Speaker 3: He just acts like, yeah, like that was another time,
another version of me that I don't feel connected to anymore,
and he just puts it back in there and closes
the drawer and doesn't talk about it anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think basically along on the short of it is,
I don't know whoever it is. Yes, after watching this
movie and the Julie dynamic does not bring me comfort
about that, watching it from a therapist's size actually makes
me more concerned. Yes, that he's going farther in then
he's getting out of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then what a mess to dated two sisters while
going through this process of figuring out who the fuck
you are?
Speaker 2: No friggin doubt, no friggin' doubt.
Speaker 3: Because they come back, because him and Julie come back
from their their traveling together, and so that's what they're
coming back from. And it's just like, did you just
turn into who Julie wanted you to be instead of
who the whoever.
Speaker 2: The fuck you actually are?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like we said, if this movie was more
fleshed out, and by that I mean like covered a
bigger span of time, maybe we'd also get a better
understanding of like what was Everett's role in the family.
Is he like this golden child eldest son, Like the
way that their mom feels like she is allowed to
dictate him to a certain extent, and it feels like
the whole family's kind of like going towards the parent's
idea of stuff that it would make me curious if
he ever felt like he was allowed to be himself. Yeah,
if he was always like similar with Meredith, like people pleasing,
which is probably why they also are compatible to a
certain extent. Is there are two people that are just
trying to get along, which is also why they are
all these smaller moments, and then we can segue, I
think into the family with this all these smaller moments
in which I think Meredith and or Everett could have
stood up for themselves, stood up for each other and didn't.
And I wonder if that's also part of the people
pleasing thing, is that you don't say anything until you
fucking snap. Yeah, and then the shit has hit the
fan and doesn't.
Speaker 2: Either, which is pretty much what we see happen.
Speaker 1: I mean, they both get into to certain extent physical fights. Yeah,
they both like they end them, both of them, and
the movie covered in shit, bloody, fucked up, having messed
around to some extent with the sibling of their partner,
like they're messy. And I think that's such a good
example of when you are white knuckling having your shit
together versus authentically having your shit together. You can only
do that for so long before you snap. And this
is what snapping looks like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, yelling at each other in front of the
whole family on Christmas Day. I didn't ask you to
marry me? And what are you talking about? I thought
that's what she wanted, and then her saying.
Speaker 2: No, I will not marry you please themselves into a marriage. Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well we'll take another break here and we'll be
back to talk about the family stone themselves, all right,
So we've talked about the fact that this family is
very close and they very much seem to prioritize closeness,
and they also are watching misterro therapist eyes. I felt
a lot less forgiving, or maybe I noticed a lot
more low key mean behaviors, like they felt more like
the bad guys. Yeah, watching the movie through my therapist
lens than Meredith, and I will say, I think that's
where this movie is really really well written.
Speaker 2: That's where it makes start that takeover so you can
edit that well.
Speaker 1: Also, I think that is actually where this movie is
really well written, is that no one is like the
bad guy and the good guy. Everyone in this movie
kind of acts like an asshole.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And I do respect that because I think the movie
makes you want to think that Meredith is this fucking
uptight drip and the family is like this cool, more
bohemian academic, close, messy but in a fun way family
like warm Christmas family, but they are very mean to Meredith,
and they also don't take things seriously. Like one of
my notes is when that granddaughter takes Mary. Elizabeth takes
Mary of the shoes, but you know, I've got to
be expensive expensive and does she takes shoes, fancy shoes
that aren't hers. She fucks them up, and everyone everyone
acts like it's like a nothing burger, Like it's it's
like less than anti climactic, Like she comes into the kitchen,
she sees that this child has her shoes, which is like,
why does she have my things?
Speaker 2: Period?
Speaker 1: And then she's playing with them in the middle of
all the all the adults, including her mother and even
next to her.
Speaker 2: Yes, even when Mareth like takes.
Speaker 1: The shoes and they're clearly wobbly, there's no emphatic like
I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry that Elizabeth gottrue shoes.
Elizabeth say you're sorry to Meredith. We will fix these,
we will pay for them. It's just very like, oh,
you know how it is. Sometimes things get fixed, and
if you have a you know, and then it kind
of puts the onus on Meritith to decide if she's
going to be a bit about this or not exactly,
and that really that right off the rip like really
put me off because as much as I guess socially
the expectation is that Mereth is having to impress the family,
I also believe the family should be doing their part
to impress her. Yeah, and they are not at all.
It's very mean, girls, it's very you know what it is.
Speaker 2: It's very.
Speaker 1: Inclusive, it's very exclusive. Actually, it's very Our family is
such a good family.
Speaker 2: We're so tight.
Speaker 1: This is either you come in and you kind of
go with the way that we do things, or something's
up with you and we can't interpret that. Maybe also
being something that's heightened by the grief we've been discussing. Yeah,
like their matriarch was close to death possibly and now
we know is terminal again or terminal for the first time,
So that could be heightening the.
Speaker 2: Exclusivity of the family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like tightened ranks, I guess absolutely. Yeah, but
there's also things socially going on that's that's bad social
skills on their part. As someone. I mean, you and
I are both from big families. Yeah, so I have
met many in laws, many girlfriends partners of my siblings
that two of them have become now my sister in laws.
Speaker 2: You know, I know that you have the same.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I can't imagine being this rude to someone
that I'm meeting for the first time that I know
my sibling cares about.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I totally agree. I totally agree.
Speaker 3: I mean, my my experience always has always been everyone's
really nice, really sweet, really open, really flexible, like really helpful,
like really wanting them to feel comfortable. And I feel
like this family is like no one is allowed to
feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: Well, it's they're doing this talking out of both sides
of their mouth thing, which I can see why that
does make Meredith crazy. Absolutely, it's very I guess it's
very passive aggressive what I mean in that we're fine
with you sleeping in separate beds, but we're gonna make
a whole meal out of the fact that you're putting
Amy out. And like they have a lot of little
things and faces. It's like everyone's telling a joke that
Meredith isn't in on, and she's also like the butt
of it. And so it's like they're performing openness and kindness.
And I think the only people that really do that
are Patrick, probably because there's also another in law, so
he knows this family and maybe how hard it is
to get your way into the family, and he deals
with that by being quiet and useful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he really does.
Speaker 1: He stay right, which you know, he's a black person
and he's also gay, so that could just be he
knows how to code switch, he knows how.
Speaker 2: To stay out of trouble. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And the older sister actually, even though like I said,
in these moments with the shoe and everything, she's a
little she could be more hands on and more directive. Actually,
I think she's very hands off for an older sibling.
But also she's going through her own grief, as we
say the leader in the movie when she stays downstairs
and watches Saint Louis meet me in Saint Louis and
she's crying that like this whole family too, is operating
in grief and high emotionality, which I want to give
them the benefit of the doubt. And how much that
probably is impacting the way that they are all behaving
at this Christmas holiday.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because I think they're all having their own experiences.
I think the only one that we don't see have
a reaction to the mom having terminal cancer.
Speaker 2: Is that, Yeah, we don't really see.
Speaker 3: Him and Patrick have that awareness that we see on
Susannah's face and Ben's face and Everett's face.
Speaker 2: We don't really we don't really see.
Speaker 1: That, yeah, for whatever reason. And also exactly Amy too.
We see that with the pictures because I feel like
FAD's emotional moment is the dinner table scene. Yeah, unfortunately, Yeah,
I agreed, And how much the mom means to him
in that moment, Like she does do a really great
job of like touching him, touching base with him after that, Yeah,
and being like I love you, there's nothing wrong with you.
Speaker 2: Like she does.
Speaker 1: That's a fantastic thing she does there to be with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But yeah, like they're all like maybe Susannah's just.
Speaker 2: More checked out, and also she's pregnant as.
Speaker 1: Fuck and she's single parenting at the moment because her
husband isn't there yet, so she might just be like.
Speaker 2: I don't care. I don't care.
Speaker 1: I don't know who shoes they are, but I don't care.
But you know what, Like I could see her just
like maybe going through the motions in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe waiting and maybe like waiting for her
husband to get there before like she.
Speaker 2: Like really connects to the family. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: But yeah, where's the point I was gonna make in that. Yeah,
they are just these certain things that like they they
aren't making an effort to be respectful of Meredith and
Everett and I this is also one of those things
where I would love to see more of this family
at like different times. Yeah, because is this how they are?
Are they also being different than normal? Like it's how
they're treating meritith something that Everett's also shocked by because
has he dated girls in the past and they've been
better than this because they are I'm a warm family
where I could see how.
Speaker 2: Like how Julie gets received.
Speaker 1: Is I feel like probably how they've received other people
in the past, like maybe Patrick and other people that
Amy has dated or Ben has dated, or Everett's dated, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so the.
Speaker 3: So actually, there is a moment in the film where
Everett brings up somebody else that he was dating because
he wants the ring, and he said, when I was
dating so and so, and then the mom lights up
and is like.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it wasn't she great?
Speaker 3: We really loved her, like just lays it on thick
about this other person, like there was so much better than.
Speaker 2: Mayor death in those in that moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I feel like there are other people that
he's brought home that they liked or got along with better. Yeah,
And I also think in some ways it's just Meredith
at the wrong time, Like she's coming into a family
that is so emotionally rought. Yeah, and they're about to
get like the worst news of their fucking life, yeah,
which is that their like beloved matriarch is dying. Yeah,
like she's not coming back this time from this and
that this is probably and finds out to be the
last Christmas they all have together. And so it makes
me curious if all, like the strength of this family
have gotten kind of like twirked and and like kind
of perverted, like twisted in the context of what they're
going through, Like they typically they're very close, but now.
Speaker 2: It seems controlling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe they're like a family that teases and
is very open and honest, but now it's coming off
as like mean and agitated, like there's an edge to
it that maybe there typically isn't. And like I wonder
because you made a great point of how Amy and
Mom are very similar and you're right like that the
scene where Amy's awake and Mom's awake and Meredith shows
up looking like Aubrey Hepburn, which is off, you know, outfit,
and they are so mean, like they're Caddy, like they're mean,
the way that there's that passive, aggressive, mean girl kind
of mean. Yeah, and well one they're and so they're
encouraging each other Mom and Amy, which I never really noticed,
you're right, like you were right and saying that when
we were watching it, like they are. I bet you
Amy is just like her. I bet you was just
like Amy back in the day. And how they are
encouraging each other the way that.
Speaker 2: We all can get.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows someone that they can kiki with that kind
of blows up like the worst parts of their personality.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, which is family. Yeah, almost always. My mom
hates it. She loves it.
Speaker 1: But she also hates it with me and my brother
Cody are together because we start to get a little
like zing zing zing zing zing, and she's like, you guys,
I mean, and we just think we're being funny.
Speaker 2: But I'm sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, my mother says it's me, so I guess
I have to believe her on that. But but yeah,
like they they really aren't trying at all, in my opinion,
to make Meredith feel comfortable. Absolutely, I think that they're
acting like they are. But she's such a rigid, uptight
monster that there's like know that she should just be
grateful that they're putting up with her, yeah, and not
saying all this shit to her face the whole time.
And I do wonder if all that too, is how
much is their attention that, like, this is our last
Christmas with our mom and it has to be perfect,
and you're bringing in this outsider who does not fuck
with our vibe and now you're going to fucking get
Grandma's ring.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now you're.
Speaker 1: Going to become a permanent part of the story. Like
that is, we can't have a new person around also
for us to feel all the feelings that we have
to feel. I mean, it also makes me think of,
you know, when a loved one has cancer, has a
terminal diagnosis of some kind, that the anger around them
being in that position or having to experience that or
the cancer coming back. Also, they could also just be
feeling really angry, and so they're all kind of acting
kind of agitated, and they and their volume is turned
up on all their behaviors, And that would make a
lot because who can you be mad with when somebody
has a terminal illness?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Right, odd, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, So I think it also would be natural
that this would be a family that's experiencing a lot
of anger and frustration over over the over Sybil's experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then if if Amy and Mom, if they're like
each other's person, like I feel like Amy, her mom
is her person, Yeah that understands her, is just like her,
then there also can be a this isn't healthy a
camaraderie with like us versus them, like how we feel
close and how we reassure how similar.
Speaker 2: We are to each other? Is we dogpile h?
Speaker 1: And also like we were saying, like the anger that
they both are probably feeling of like the impermanence of
their relationship, like the genuine and permanence, and how upsetting
all that is and how like I said, they're pissed
over it. But you can't be that mad at Everett
and still be holding on to their idea of their family. Yeah,
and so I can. But I can't be mad at
Mereth because she's not one of us. But ever it's
one of us and we have this last Christmas together,
so yeah, we're gonna be mad.
Speaker 2: And Mareth isn't easy. She's a great scapegoat.
Speaker 1: I mean, for all the Gellings, they're fucking holding exactly exactly. Yeah,
And like I said, like there's a I just felt
really disappointed in Sybil for how she was not modeling
how you are supposed to treat a new person in
your household.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And something that I want to add to that, it
is kind of going back to how we were talking
came about control in regards to Meredith is and that's
the arc we see with Sybil over the movie, is
that she's trying to control Everett and control who he
marries and his future. I'm sure before she dies well,
and by the end of the movie she she lets
go of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3: But a part of and a part of what she's
worried about is He's going to make a mistake and
I'm not going to be there to be with him
through making that mistake. Yeah, Which and they feel so sure,
which again is pulling back into that rigidity, right, they
feel so sure that Meredith is going to ruin his
life or something like.
Speaker 1: It's so they're so rigid about that about him, about
that experience.
Speaker 3: And I feel like she does finally come around to it,
but that she is trying to control in the same way.
Speaker 1: And I think her learning that lesson that by trying
to control effort is going in the opposite of her intention,
which is I want to be in it.
Speaker 2: I want my family to be in a good place
before I go.
Speaker 1: And that's also you know, the thing that she talks
about with Kelly, right, yes, when he says I'll be fine, like,
we'll be fine, I'll figure it out. And I think
at that moment he's also trying to tell her like, yeah,
you can't set us up for like no problems after
you leave. Yeah, And they like that moment in bed,
and then the next morning when she sees Everett, she's like,
she does repair work a bit with him.
Speaker 2: She does.
Speaker 1: And by repair work, it's a therapy term, but basically
it just means kind of how it sounds, which is
that you go back to a conflict or after a conflict,
after something interpersonally bad happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you go back towards.
Speaker 1: The person that you had that with and you repair
You say, like, this is what happened. I acknowledge how
I made you feel. I want to know how I
made you feel. I want to know what you need
so that you don't feel this way. Again, if that's possible,
and I take ownership for where I fucked up, Yeah,
and wanting to move on right and kind She does
do that with him where she owns it, and she
also identifies where she was coming from, not in a
way that excuses her, but she's just explained to him
why she's been so fucking keyed up. And then she
does the you know, want to punch where she's like,
you know, you getting married isn't going to fix me,
which is what she should have said in the beginning,
if that's what she's so worried about, and if that's
where all this fucking bitch energy is coming from. Is
pulling him aside at the beginning and being like hey,
like when he asks for the ring, she does have
a very off putting reaction. She kind of like laughs
in his face. She's being very unkind. Yeah, absolutely, she's
just being mean towards Meredith instead of saying like, hey,
I feel I feel hesitant, like really hesitant about actually
falling through with this promise I made you because I
love you and I'm worried about you, and can you
help me understand what Meredith means to you? Yeah, Like
there's a way to have that conversation full on, or
even just saying like I'm worried that you're doing this
because I'm dying.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, there's so many different ways that she could have communicated.
They could have had that conversation right off the bat,
because they.
Speaker 1: Have just cries and they hold each other, and that's
what needed to happen, like releasing the tension, because part
of this movie is that they're trying not to tell
the kids until after the holidays, but slowly over the
course movie, like everybody fucking knows. Yeah, and so it
just becomes this thing that's like haunting the holiday, the
true instead of them being.
Speaker 2: Like protected from the information.
Speaker 1: And in that moment, she does kind of give permission
to rip off the band aid with ever it. Yeah,
and he gets really upset, And I think that's a
very powerful moment. And like I said, I wish his
story didn't end with him then chasing after another woman,
and just like that would be a great moment for
him to be like, I know, I don't want to
be with Meredith.
Speaker 2: I do like Julie.
Speaker 1: I do like when she says reach out to me
New Year's Eve, like she at least is like we
need to take some breathing room. All lot's happened this
weekend or this week and you know, we don't know
if this is actually us having good chemistry or just
the you know, anticipation in adrenaline.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of everything.
Speaker 1: And I wish he would have said like, yeah, I
think I need time to figure myself out.
Speaker 2: Instead of I don't know, hopping the world with Julie. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, it just feels like again like he is
right back where he was, where he doesn't know who
he is, and he's just going to follow the next
woman wherever they go, and isn't going to take the
time to really figure out who he is and how
he wants to show up in his life.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if there's.
Speaker 1: Anything specifically more about the family other than there is
this casual meanness which is very encouraged amongst them, and
it is like a perfect storm with Meredith and Everett.
But I don't know if there is there anything more
that you want to say about the family.
Speaker 2: I feel like funny clearing my throat. I feel like.
Speaker 3: Something just kind of in general I guess to talk about,
is again this idea of in a family everybody plays
a role, and I know that I've talked about this before, right,
you have the role of sometimes there's a prodigal, sometimes
there's a prodigal son, Sometimes there is a peacekeeper, sometimes
there is the class clown. Sometimes like everybody has a
role in a family. And when one person in the
family starts really acting different, which I think a part
of what we're seeing.
Speaker 1: With Everett, the whole system will like freak out, freak
out and batten down the hatches and like, no, this
is how you are, this is your role, this is
where you should be. And Everett doesn't do that because
he doesn't know who he is and he doesn't have
awareness of how big of an impact his role has
on everybody else, which is really common for an eldest
sibling to be almost at the core of like one
of the main family roles that has to be there.
Because I know that the first time that I acted
really outside of what my family expected and very much
outside of my role, that everybody was acting like I
had committed like murder, it was like I was all
these things and all these things were true, and there
was no flexibility around what was going on or like
what I needed or anything. Right, it's all about you're
not playing the role, and we're going to make you
play that role because that's the only way that we
understand the family. And we can't play our roles if
you're not playing you, if you're not playing yours, which
is a dysfunctional family system, right when our roles are
so dependent upon each other, Like we should all be
able to move freely in the family as our own purple,
as our own move, as our own people, and like
my identity shouldn't be so dependent upon your identity exactly,
which then also brings up why everyone feels like they're
allowed to have so much say over whoever it is with.
Because something that my mom has always impressed upon me
and I'm sure my siblings, which I do really appreciate,
is she would always say, like, I'm not dating them,
And what she meant by that is, we don't have
to want to date this person that one of the
family members is dating.
Speaker 2: As long as they're cool and we can.
Speaker 1: Get along and be civil and like make it work
when we're all together, that's good enough. Like that is enough,
and they don't have to be someone that perfectly slots
into our family system. You don't have to understand why
that person's with them as long as they're genuinely happy. So,
and like I said, that's why it makes me wonder,
like the Fattius actually being so direct with Everett does
make me wonder about that part of it, because that's
where I can give this family a bone, is that
they seem to be very sure that Everett won't be
happy with Meredith. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now is that because they're projecting their shit onto Meredith.
Speaker 1: Or is it because like they genuinely are seeing that
ever it's not himself, Which I get that, you know
what I mean. Yeah, So that's where we don't have
enough information to have like a harder line about it,
because if this is always however it was, then I
would think that the family would be prepared for him
to bring home someone that they wouldn't necessarily date themselves
as individuals. Yeah, but that's not the point. And like
I said, and they don't like the shoe thing keeps
bogging me the wild Yeah, the shoe thing is wild,
It really is. The shoe thing is their their casualness.
It's not about the shoes. It's about how they don't
seem to give a shit how she feels yeah, or
respect her yeah, or her things. And that's more than
like even if my brother, when my brothers was dating
like a real piece of work, I still wouldn't be like,
so fuck her shit, you know what I mean. I
wouldn't if one of my nieces their nephew's got into
her shit and like broke it. I wouldn't be like, well,
who cares?
Speaker 2: Yeah, tough shit.
Speaker 1: That's me showing up as a person I do or
do not want to be, whether or not the other
person deserves it. And and that's just something to I
feel like maybe when this movie came out, I wonder
if this was more of a of a symbol of
mariisome materialistic and we're not, you know, and sure, and
I wonder if that part of, like the cultural sensibility
has changed. Whereas I don't, really, like I said, I
don't really think it matters that it might be these
expensive shoes. I think that ads obviously component to it,
but I think it's more like if she had had
a book and I was with had the book and
she ripped a couple pages out of it, like I
would be just as mortified as her mother or her
aunt or whatever, as if it was like a fancy.
Speaker 2: Payer of shoes. I'd be more stressed out if it
was a fans pair of shoes because is having to
pay that back? Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also the fact that like we have some glue
around here, like be serious.
Speaker 2: I know, right.
Speaker 1: I feel like Xanna was just like, well, there's got
to be glue somewhere, and it's like bitches, yeah, because
because like that's and that also was so like glib Yeah, exactly,
like oh, you know, just your shoes and we can
just gloom together because we don't care about stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Have you seen your house? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You do?
Speaker 2: So what I was so what I was just thinking,
So is.
Speaker 3: It a little bit because they're all they're all rich,
so they're just like whatever, it's just shoes, like.
Speaker 1: They're undercover rich, Like they're the kind of verge that
acts like they're not rich. Yeah, but it's just don't Yeah,
because I would because I come from a family like
my parents are both very comfortable middle class now, but
they don't come both my parents come from.
Speaker 2: Lower status and.
Speaker 1: We were very much like a version of middle class
that I don't know if it exists anymore, I would
say no, and so if my brothers brought home someone
and then their fancy shoes got fucked up, it would
be like DEATHCN five in my house, like my mother
would be would feel so anyone would feel so awful. Yeah,
And that's what I mean when I say, like the bottom,
the top up, the top, the top down isn't being
modeled correctly. Yeah, and so it is allowing the children,
the adult children to act in a not very considerate way. Now,
like I said, please when we tell about all this stuff,
I am also the asterisk at all times is that
this is a family probably in the clutches of grief.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: And so like I said, what's interesting about this movie
is we could definitely be seeing all these people acting
in a way that's not typical of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this could be.
Speaker 1: A version of them that maybe when they look back
on this time, they feel like a lot of like shame, yeah,
and regret, you know, and maybe they do do repair
work with Meredith, because she's not not leaving the family's now,
she's in the family, in the family, she's at the
one year later Christmas experience. I mean, yeah, I and
I think you see, and what I think I like
about being able to go into the future and see
that scene with everyone. I think also showed me that
there's a comfort that everyone seems to have with each other,
like a comfort and like a warmness that feels like
they've all accepted each other in maybe a different way,
which can happen when you lose a matriarch of a family.
Speaker 2: Oh yea and a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: Best case scenario is everybody is able to keep the
openness and warmth and kindness that this person brought to
the family and being able to keep that as something.
So I feel like I feel like seeing those scenes
really helps us see that like they are in a
different place than they were, and I think we're coming
in maybe like mom's been gone for six months mm hmm, because.
Speaker 1: It doesn't weeping and sobbing at Christmas. Yeah, yeah, but
it's definitely somber and different, but there's still a lot
of like joy and like the dad meeting the new baby,
and there is joy there, yeah, but it's that joy
with a huge asterisk, which is that someone's gone, right, Yeah,
And I will say too, and maybe this plays a
big part of it as well. Is I think when
Meredith gives them all the framed photo. I think that
is a great moment in the movie of kind of
shaming the family. Yeah, like she's not that bad, guys,
and actually she can be very considerate, and she came
here with gifts for everyone, like a such a thoughtful,
perfect gift, and they all do kind of shut the
fuck up in that moment and look appropriately shamed. Yes,
I mean, yeah, are we the assts? Yes, yes, you are.
You are the assholes. Yeah, and that there is a
component of what's going on in this family that mayor
that's not aware of.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And I think that was kind of a nice reset moment,
even though that does lead into the fights like right
after that, right, yes, it does, but it does seem
like even with that, they're like the crass rolls fall down,
they laugh, you know. It does seem like that's a
moment that turns the corner where I think Amy and
Sybil the mom are like, maybe we have been huge bitches,
yeah to this person who gave us such a beautiful,
perfect gift. Yeah, and didn't even know we need this gift. Yeah,
So maybe we can chill the fuck out, yes, yes,
all right, so we'll take a break here and we'll
be back with treatment.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I will start with treatment. I'm going to
talk about working with Everett, which I feel like is.
Speaker 2: Obvious because I'm talking about him so much.
Speaker 1: A part of helping someone through grief and helping them
reidentify who they are and what kind of life they
want to have. I think that that is whatever it
would really need as a clinician. I think he would
come in after his mom passed, and I feel like
we would. I would really want to talk to him
about and really explore a lot with him.
Speaker 2: When does he feel the most.
Speaker 3: Like himself and is that even something he can connect
to during this time of grieving, because also sometimes that
can be hard to get to. So I feel like
I would want What I would refocus on with Everett too,
is also of him having a being able to process
his mom passing and being not like internalizing it in
a way that means that he did something wrong or
did something.
Speaker 2: Bad or whatever.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: We already know that he feels more responsible for the
family than maybe he should, so I feel like I
would want to work with him on getting a better
sense of who he is and also a sense of
what he wants that life to look like, because I
think that Everett is also not only bouncing between who
he is as a human, but also about where he
wants to go with his life. I feel like between
him talking about the monastery and and then seems so
seeming so disinterested and whatever job it is that he
has that he never speaks of it, but Meredith does,
so I feel like again like him being unhappy in
his life and also helping him, and also I would
want to help him understand family dynamics and the different
ways the different roles that everybody plays and how that
has an effect on our communication.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and who is he now?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And who is he now? Who is he now?
And who?
Speaker 3: And also who does he want to be? And there's
all different, There's all different, there's all different kinds of
ways to work with clients about these different things. And
sometimes we'll just make a list of the things that
they like. What are the things that you like, and
let's just start there. And also just really exploring values
as well. Values can be really important to help somebody
understand who they are is because a lot of our
values are I feel like a lot of our values
are already stated in our families.
Speaker 2: So we don't necessarily make.
Speaker 1: Decisions about our values in that way because the value
system is already set up in our family, so we
don't really So people don't really think about values and
how that can affect your quality of life, and oh,
go ahead, I say, you don't mind me jumping into
I think also values are something that we're not even
that conscious of, yes, And so a lot of times
when you do the values work with people, it's like
the first time they've really actually thought about what the
values were in their family, what their values are as
an adult, because I don't necessarily it can be like
religious ideology oriented, but I think a lot of times
it's not.
Speaker 2: Not, though I mean, I don't do anything with any
of that.
Speaker 1: The exercise I give clients, or the thought experiment, is
if an alien was watching your house growing up or
now whenever for like a month, and they had to
make a report to their supervisors about what this human
family's values were or belief system or religion based on
what they talked about, how they spent their time, what
they made decisions based on what would that actually look like,
which can be very different than the religion your family
ascribes to. Maybe like verbalized values, and that can be
a very interesting thought experiment to have.
Speaker 2: I think that's a great way.
Speaker 3: I think that's really interesting, in a great way to
help somebody really really think about what were the rules
in my family, whether they were spoken or unspoken, and
how does that contribute to values and what I I
thought my family thought was the most important thing.
Speaker 2: And how's that influencing me now.
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly and what impact is that having? And so
I feel like going over and a lot of and
like Brittany said, like a lot of people don't think
about values. They don't because again, they are almost implicit
in a lot of different ways, and so there's a
lot of things that we just don't consider. And I
feel like it would be a place that would be
not easier to start with Everett, but maybe a little
bit in terms of because he's grieving, using values is
something that's a little bit more concrete.
Speaker 1: And also I have it's like worksheets, yes and like right,
so like it also is very structured.
Speaker 3: Yes, which he probably would need, which he probably would
need based on the fact that he's grieving. So I
think that is also another way that values I think
would be really helpful with that.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm want to work with Meredith, and kind
of the long and the short of my treatment is
that I would want to make sure I appropriately assessed
her in my work with her. Yeah, because like I said,
there's a part of me that thinks this might be
just like full blown, raging anxiety, but she's high functioning,
so it's just kind of run rampant or just been
really solidified inside of her that like anxiety is the
proper way to live, or the way that she lives
is the appropriate way to live or the correct way
to live to get what you want right versus is
this like a family kind of what we're talking about,
like a family's values.
Speaker 2: How I got my needs met.
Speaker 1: And I've just never strayed from that, which is anxiety provoking,
but different than having anxiety in the way that like
my brain's overproducing anxiety versus to be real like autism. Yeah,
there's a website called Embrace Autism dot com I think
it's dot com or dot org, And it is a
website that was actually referred to me by a client
who was considering autism for themselves, and so it is
a resource that I will sometimes refer to people if
they're speculating if they might be on the spectrum because
it's run by a lot of licensed clinicians, and as
much as it's like assessments you can take to see
if you're anywhere on the spectrum, it also is a
lot of it's an educational website about the ins and
outs of the assessments themselves, so it's as much a
website for like clinicians and researchers, I think, as it
is for people who just want to take a quick
assessment to see if maybe they're on the spectrum.
Speaker 2: And also.
Speaker 1: It doesn't diagnose you with autism, like you take one
of those tests and you're like, I got autism. I
usually recommend it to clients if they're speculating and we're
trying to decide if we want to rule that out
as a possibility because.
Speaker 2: Maybe they take these assessments and it doesn't ding any.
Speaker 1: Bells, or to be like, Okay, it looks like there's
a heavy possibility you could be on the spectrum. Do
we want to go to the actual step of being diagnosed,
which is a neuropsych test NEST, which can be expensive
and along wait list and a lot of time and money.
And also we're in a awful political landscape right now
where there are, in my opinion, threats being made by
like RFK Junior that they're going to make like an
autism directory of people, which is crazy. And so I
also think people right now are more skittish about getting
her SYDE tested because they don't want to be on
a fucking list, and that we don't trust how that
was still be used. So that is something that comes
up in conversations too when I talk to clients about
getting officially assessed. So something like embrace autism can be,
like I said, more of a filtering tool for if
you would or would not maybe be on the spectrum
more subtly. Because also I think with someone like Meredith,
I think she also fits the criteria or the I
think Meredith fits the persona. I don't know if that's
right what I mean, but of some one who like
she's a woman who's high functioning, has success in very
specific parts of her life that we.
Speaker 2: Tend to take more seriously.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like you can't have ADHD you have
good grades, which is why I didn't diagnosed with AHD
till I was thirty seven. And so that's part of
why a lot of women are getting diagnosed with autism
and ADHD but autism later on in life is because
they don't fit this idea of what autism looks like, because,
believe it or not, a lot of autism studies and
why and how autism presents was based on boys and
men male presenting people. Surprising, and a lot of the
components of how autism shows up in women and girls,
female presenting people was just not even considered because they
didn't fit the way that male presenting people show autism.
So where I'm going with that is the ability to
mask is a big part of female presenting autism, which
that just means like I can put on a mask
that helps me fit in and assimilate, so I can
make eye contact and I can smile, and I can
be affable and quote unquote fit in ish because I'm
playing a part. But it's not authentic. It's like we
were I talked about earlier, it's a script. It's a
role that you're in. So also, someone on the spectrum
can present really well, present as if they're neurotypical because
they can, like in the where she's telling the story
about how they met. If you got that version of Meredith,
you'd be like, Oh, she's great, she's friendly, she's relaxed,
she's sociable, she can make eye contact, she's like expressive,
which is very different than the Meredith you see the
rest of the movie, with the exception of when she
gets shit faced and then all of a sudden the
falls off to that because even say the scene in
which Ben is trying to show her how to relax
and she just starts mimicking him literally, that also feels
like someone on the spectrum being like, Okay, I just
need to learn the rules of being relaxed and then
I can do it, which, like I said, and this,
so I'd want to know the difference. I'd want to
assess the difference of this because it could really impact
how I would contextualize my work with Meredith, because if
it's more anxiety, we might go the route of like,
does she need to be on anxiety medication and get
and get seen by a psychiatrist. Do we need to
talk about more like CBT skills and how to sit
in discomfort of being anxious? Do we need to maybe
do values work and see where her rigidity is actually
getting in the way. It's more for values, similar to
what people do when they suffer from OCD and how
your anxiety is calling a lot of the shots. Does
that feel okay to you? And is that actually going
against your values? And that doesn't feel good? Because I
would imagine a lot of the things that she does
has that conflict to it versus if she's more on
the autism spectrum, is it I don't understand how what
the things I do make other people feel. Yeah, like
with the phone call on the very thing of the
movie when she's telling that person, well, you have to
change to Christmas plans. I don't know if she is
on the spectrum. Could that just be where she just
biffs it because she doesn't understand socially why that's such
a hardcore thing to ask of someone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and.
Speaker 1: It's coming from a more for lack of a better
way of putting it, clueless perspective, not from a callous perspective, yeah,
or a controlling, anxiety written perspective.
Speaker 2: It's just truly like.
Speaker 1: The point is sailing past my head. And so if
she was more on the autism spectrum, that would change
how we would discuss the choices that she makes. I
might have to do more like social skills foundational work
with her, you know how she like, we might have
to work on flexibility together because also her rigidity could
be a component of that. I only like to dress
a certain way, I like to be a certain way.
I like to follow these certain rules, and when you
enter into a different family, you can't do that.
Speaker 2: You can't expect.
Speaker 1: Everyone to follow your rules. And so when I work
with people on the spectrum, a lot of it is
what is your window of tolerance for flexibility? And the
point of that isn't that people on the spectrum are
capable of being more flexible and they're choosing not to
be in those moments. It can also be more like
what's the level of disability you can tolerate? And then
how do you help yourself when you feel yourself getting
to an intolerable level? Like do you need to go
take breaks? Do you need to bring like a comfort
object with you? Do you need to let other people
know that you're autistic and that that's why you're dressing
the way you're dressing, or you're holding yourself the way
you are, or you want to eat this instead of that,
you know, it also helps people who care about you
have a better context and hopefully can be more compassionate
and forgiving and caring and patient around that context versus
Meredith is a real pill. Yeah, it's a lot, you
know how Meredith is. It's more like, well, like, can
we can we give her the certain things that she
needs because she's making an effort just being here and
being here on our terms? So how can we meet
her where she's at? And so that's where I'm gonna
end with treatment actually, because like I said, until I
discerned that I that would dictate where I would go.
But Mareth, it does feel like someone who might ring
my bells my little intente as a therapist of like, oh,
are you like undercover on the spectrum? But because you
are so you meet the beauty standard, you're so financially successful,
you have found a career path that really works with
the way that your brain works. Have you just like
figured out how to make life work for you? But
you're doing things like the throat clearing thing, like is
that a stem?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: There are certain things about her where I'm like oof,
Like I would want to rule out being on the spectrum.
M M, because, like I said, treating it like it's
just anxiety might be really unfair. Yeah, because I was
gonna say the differences you would be treating like coping
skills and like breathing.
Speaker 2: Skills and like and like that kind of.
Speaker 1: Stuff, versus helping support her with social experiences, Yeah, which
still would probably include the skills work too, but I
but I might do more somatic things of like how
are you aware of your body? About how when you're
getting too tense and you're about to fucking snap, Especially
if you're someone that's good at masking and people pleasing,
is you don't build a lot of awareness of how
you actually feel, which is already hard if you're on
the spectrum. And so it would be a lot more
of that work, like are you carrying at tension in
your body? Are you even aware of that the fact
that you're doing that? And so that's what I would
be curious to do with Meredith for sure. All right,
I'll take one more break here and we've back with
final thoughts. I can go first, because you love this
movie so much, Hannah, and I feel like we always
have the person who loves the movie the most speak lass, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I do love this movie. This movie is wild. This
movie is.
Speaker 1: Caucasiity at his finest, as they would say, just white
people really running them up. The fact that at the
next holiday season, I would love I would love to
be a fly on the wall at Meredith and Julie's
families when both Ben and Ever showing up like they're
gonna be at each other's family events forever, no matter
what family they're at. So this movie is fucking bananas
with that. I do know that it's coming under the
context of like a rom com where this everyone has
to be partnered up in something in some form or fashion,
even Amy with like her high school boyfriend or whatever.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, but I will say.
Speaker 1: Like it's still a very warm movie. I think it's
a very good Christmas movie. I love that it's a
more modern classic, that it's a movie that's becoming that's
become a holiday movie, kind of like The Holiday Actually,
like these more modern movies that are becoming holiday staples.
I think it is a really fun movie, even though
watching it this time I got very annoyed because I had.
Speaker 2: To put my therapist hat on.
Speaker 1: I love how relaxed and a lot of how lived
in the movie feels. It made me love like set
dressing and how warm and cozy the movie is. And
I also feel like this movie is a great masterclass
in familial chemistry, like adult siblings with each other, like
when they smack each other on the back of the head.
The fact that Amy is also part of that. It's
not like the boys act like this and the girls
act like that that, like Amy is a rascal too
with Ben, Yes, And I think it's a very good
demonstration of that. I usually cried and cry this time,
I think because of the fact that we were watching
it in our therapist mode. But I usually cry when
she gives her the picture and she says that's me
and me and Mayor. I'm usually like, oh boohoo hoo.
I probably we want to watch it for Christmas this year,
because even though this is a Christmas episode that's coming
out during Christmas time, it is November ninth right now
as of recording this, so we're not quite there yet.
And also something we haven't said, which was just purely coincidental,
because we've been planning to this movie all year. We
schedule our movie list, we like make our movie list
in the beginning of the calendar year, so we were
going to do the family Stone all year. But the
fact that we're doing it the year that Diane Keaton
has just passed, and this movie is about Diane Keaton passing. Yeah,
I do want to name that this was just a
serendipitous coincidence.
Speaker 2: We weren't.
Speaker 1: We didn't do this movie because dian Keaton just passed.
It just happened to be that way. But it did
add a little extra layer of like, uugh, because Diane
Keaton and Hannah knows this because she's met my mom.
Her mannerisms and the way she is and even her
haircut remind especially this movie when say so much.
Speaker 2: Of my mom.
Speaker 1: That it does feel like it gives me a little
extra tug in my heart to know she's no longer
with us. Also, my mom loves Daryan Keaton movies. So Mom,
I'm sure listening because this is a movie that you've
seen a bunch of times.
Speaker 2: Merry Christmas to you. But yeah, like, I love this movie.
I'll watch it a bunch of times.
Speaker 1: It's one of those movies that you just accept as
bat shit crazy, yes, and you love it anyway, or
you love it because it is I love the scene
where they get shit faced in the bar. Yes, you know,
and she's like, do you get a little pot, Like
this movie is great and I'm sure you love it,
Hannah because you watch it a thousand times, so I
can give you the floor.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: Yes, I love this movie. I saw this movie in
the movie theater when it came out. I saw it
with some of my siblings, and it's definitely become a
movie that we watch at our family holiday get together
and so I really enjoy this film. I think they
did a really I think they did a really good
job of showing sibling relationships and what they can look
like as adults, and also in that chemistry that they
all have together, Like it really felt like you were
with this family who was really close, even though it
is batshit crazy, because it totally is, especially the.
Speaker 2: Julie Meredith Ben.
Speaker 3: Thing, like that's yeah, fuck, I could have lived with
a person. It reminds me of I could have too.
It reminds me of Captain America. The only other girl
he dated is the niece of.
Speaker 2: The woman he was in love with.
Speaker 1: Like, this is not helpful, this is not it didn't
feel it felt really silly and also really like movie
magic made up that they would all just have fine,
regular relationships after the mom passed.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I do speak with those people.
Speaker 1: The Evert and Jewelie thing, I wonder if that would
have happened in a movie being made today. Yeah, I
do like the the Meredith Ben stuff. I feel like
that storytelling wise works as like a catalyst for Meredith
and like her transformation or her arc over the story.
But I feel like the Evert and Jewlie thing I
don't need. I didn't need it. I didn't need them
to have their like magical things.
Speaker 2: It makes everything.
Speaker 1: It makes Evert look bad, really bad, like a sloppy bitch. Yes,
and so that part him running after the bus, I'm like.
Speaker 2: Get a grip.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's the part that hasn't aged well, and
that feels like it gets worse and worse age wise,
Oh everything else it is very colorable. Yeah, I feel
like everything everything else yeah, feels natural, feels relatable, feels so. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I love this movie and I'll watch it a
thousand more times. And yes, I probably know all the
dialogue to it. I definitely watch it every year, and yeah,
and I hope that you all enjoy it as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So as always, if you would like to find
us off the podcast, you can find us at Facebook, Instagram,
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we do, and we really appreciate everyone hanging in there,
and I hope everyone is able to have a peaceful
holiday as best as they can.
Speaker 2: It's a trying time right now.
Speaker 1: It's hard financially, it's hard systemically, and I hope everyone's
able to find some comfort with the people that they love,
whether that's your family or your chosen family.
Speaker 2: Happy holidays,