Speaker 1: This episode MA contained content of a graphic nature, including
Speaker 1: descriptions of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised. Hi, this is Tanya. Hi, this
Speaker 1: is Shannon, and we are Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore
Speaker 1: true crime podcast. Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how are you doing.
Speaker 1: I'm doing great, fabulous, couldn't be better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a funny things.
Speaker 3: So, okay, I got these indoor security cameras right for Levi.
Speaker 3: The one's over his crib. I got one in the
Speaker 3: living room. I got a pack of four for a
Speaker 3: decent price. I love it. I love being able to
Speaker 3: pop over his crib and see how he's if he's
Speaker 3: fussing stuff like that. Right.
Speaker 2: The one in the living room.
Speaker 3: Is just straight on to like the couch, right, so
Speaker 3: it's right under the TV that's mounted on the wall.
Speaker 2: And you know, when I go through it, it's just
Speaker 2: usually me holding Levi.
Speaker 3: It's just who's ever holding Levi on the couch in
Speaker 3: this certain spot is being recorded? Well, I forget and
Speaker 3: I have given my daughter access to the course. The
Speaker 3: camera's in the house, so she had left over to
Speaker 3: her boyfriend's I got the boy down for the evening.
Speaker 3: You know, Levi's down, He's good. I'm watching TV, you know,
Speaker 3: and my usual Grandma's by herself. I'm a little high,
Speaker 3: you know. I have my little ad d stems where
Speaker 3: like I'll just hold my arm over my head and
Speaker 3: let it hang in the air while I'm reading my
Speaker 3: you know, I'm scrolling and I remember that the camera's on.
Speaker 3: Like usually I turn it away for the evening, it's
Speaker 3: just for whatever. I realized the freaking camera's been on,
Speaker 3: and it made me think of that King of Queen's
Speaker 3: episode where they had a camera on Arthur downstairs but
Speaker 3: he didn't know it. I'm like, oh my gosh, our
Speaker 3: Brook and Tony watching me scroll through my phone. I mean,
Speaker 3: why wouldn't it's in our nature to watch, you know.
Speaker 3: So I was like, oh, jeezu Lou, I cannot. I
Speaker 3: don't want to jump up and turn the camera in
Speaker 3: case they are watching, you know, I would just make
Speaker 3: it weird, so stupid. So I'm rethinking the living room camera.
Speaker 3: You know, I have four so one grown child and
Speaker 3: one grandchild. I don't know how many cameras I need.
Speaker 3: So that's my story. I had Arthur Spooner fearful bone.
Speaker 3: Not a fear filled moment, just awkward.
Speaker 2: So what about girl?
Speaker 1: You know, I went to Chicago this past weekend with
Speaker 1: my daughter. Her favorite K pop band was performing, and
Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: It was very sounded like fun. You're such a great mom.
Speaker 3: I love that you just hop in the car.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, road trip, that's right, road trip concert Chicago.
Speaker 1: We were driving home and we were started talking about
Speaker 1: my mom and I'm like, you know, Nana loved a
Speaker 1: road trip like my mom loved going on road trips.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I love a road trip too. So going
Speaker 1: to Chicago Friday, we drove there. Saturday, we came home
Speaker 1: and I worked in the car on our drive there,
Speaker 1: and I used my phone as a hot spot.
Speaker 2: Isn't I love?
Speaker 3: I know it's one of the highlights of the time
Speaker 3: we're living in now. Oh too much technology?
Speaker 2: I know. It was great.
Speaker 3: All I want in the time that I live in
Speaker 3: as a woman is deodorant, tampons, and a good Wi Fi.
Speaker 2: A good Wi Fi. Oh yeah, well that's cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I have a crazy story for you today.
Speaker 2: Tell me.
Speaker 1: And it's a pretty famous one, like it's well known,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if you've heard this story or not.
Speaker 1: So it is about Herb Baumeister. Have you heard this one?
Speaker 2: It is not bringing about Baumeister. Does not roll off
Speaker 2: the tongue, No, it doesn't Herb.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm going to tell you about this weirdo.
Speaker 2: Okay please.
Speaker 1: The Midwest of the US is known as the Heartland, right,
Speaker 1: and we live in the Midwest.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: And in the Midwest it's a major agricultural and industrial center.
Speaker 1: Embracing this status, the region is also known to associate
Speaker 1: itself with traditional American values, and Indiana lies within the
Speaker 1: Heartland and boasts a diverse landscape, including forests and farmlands,
Speaker 1: but also including several automotive manufacturing plants, much like Michigan.
Speaker 1: During the eighties and nineties, there was a large population
Speaker 1: boom around the capital, which is Indianapolis, which is where
Speaker 1: our story takes place. Due to the efforts of the
Speaker 1: mayor and his desire to increase sports tourism, the city
Speaker 1: acquired the Baltimore Colts, a football team at the time,
Speaker 1: and they hosted the nineteen eighty seven Pan American Games.
Speaker 1: While the city's population boomed, a new demographic of people
Speaker 1: were moving in. People frequenting the downtown areas had traditionally
Speaker 1: been businessmen, and when those men would go home to
Speaker 1: their wives, the city practically closed itself at five o'clock.
Speaker 1: But then the nightclubs began popping up all around the city,
Speaker 1: and they were gay nightclubs in particular. These gay bars
Speaker 1: were a sanctuary for the community that they served. Outside
Speaker 1: of the walls of those nightclubs, there wasn't much support
Speaker 1: for the gay community, and many of the people of
Speaker 1: Indianapolis felt pressure to accept the gay community, which contradicted
Speaker 1: their conservative American values that you know, the heartland this
Speaker 1: you know reputation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't absolutely engage in gay sex openly.
Speaker 2: That's for behind closed doors. And this is like the
Speaker 2: aid for others.
Speaker 1: Right, and this is the eighties and nineties, and you know,
Speaker 1: people were still quite uptight, very well. With the entrance
Speaker 1: of the gay community to the city and headlines about
Speaker 1: the AIDS crisis, you know, they became more meaningful as
Speaker 1: homosexual men began to report missing from the club scene.
Speaker 1: The police tended to dismiss the claims, often using the
Speaker 1: AIDS epidemic as an excuse, saying, oh, they must have
Speaker 1: gotten sick and they just don't go to the bars anymore.
Speaker 1: But this was becoming an issue. They were being reported
Speaker 1: missing and they were not really investigated well when the
Speaker 1: victims were gay. It became a population that the police
Speaker 1: really didn't put a lot of resources toward.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's sad, like how they deal with like prostitutes
Speaker 3: and name Americans, you know, the right, they're deemed not
Speaker 3: good enough to write invest in resources.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's not like a blond white girl that
Speaker 1: went missing, sure, exactly. So members of the gay community
Speaker 1: were instead being targeted by law enforcement. They got tickets
Speaker 1: for loitering or a male prostitution when stepping outside of
Speaker 1: the bar. Like, they were just targeted and they didn't
Speaker 1: feel safe. But the community was close knit, even if
Speaker 1: the police were providing the missing and murdered men with
Speaker 1: lazy investigations. The nightclubs provided a place for family and
Speaker 1: friends to hang posters seeking information about their loved ones
Speaker 1: who had disappeared, and bodies began littering the Highway I seventy.
Speaker 1: As the number of missing and murdered gay men increased
Speaker 1: emerged in fears of serial killer developed. So this is
Speaker 1: the backdrop in front of which a report was made
Speaker 1: to the Indianapolis authorities from a gay man named Mark
Speaker 1: Goodyear one summer in the mid nineties. The night before,
Speaker 1: Mark had seen a man at the bar that he
Speaker 1: didn't recognize, staring at the wanted poster for a missing
Speaker 1: man named Roger good Leut. Approaching the stranger, he introduced
Speaker 1: himself as Tony Harris, using an alias in an attempt
Speaker 1: to disguise who he was in the LGBTQ climate of
Speaker 1: the time, and asked the stranger if he knew Roger.
Speaker 1: The man answered no, he didn't. Then he asked the
Speaker 1: man's name, and he said Brian Smart. So after spending
Speaker 1: time together at the bar, Brian asked his new companion
Speaker 1: Tony if he would want to go to his employer's
Speaker 1: home to swim in the indoor pool and said, you know,
Speaker 1: we can take supparate cars. So Tony said sure, but
Speaker 1: he said we don't have to take two separate cars.
Speaker 1: We can take one. He wanted his car left at
Speaker 1: the bar in case he went missing, like so many
Speaker 1: others had. He wanted someone to know, you know, looking
Speaker 1: for him. So Tony got into Brian's car and they
Speaker 1: drove in relative silence. Not for the lack of trying
Speaker 1: on Tony's part, but Brian really didn't seem interested in
Speaker 1: the two getting to know each other. They pulled into
Speaker 1: the driveway of the name of the place was something
Speaker 1: farm Tony would recall to the police. They drove down
Speaker 1: the long entrance of an eighteen acre property, ending at
Speaker 1: the front door of a tutor style mansion. Brian told
Speaker 1: his guests that the power was off on the ground level,
Speaker 1: but was still on in the basement where the pool was,
Speaker 1: which a basement pool seems kind.
Speaker 2: Of creepy right.
Speaker 1: Going through the garage and down a set of stairs,
Speaker 1: they reached the swimming pool in the basement. Upon reaching
Speaker 1: the pool, Tony saw pool toys, a fully stocked bar,
Speaker 1: and the weirdest of all. You're never going to guess
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna say next, a bunch of posed mannequins.
Speaker 2: I was close because I was gonna say, blow up.
Speaker 1: Now you were close. Oh, One was just as a
Speaker 1: woman modeled to reach into a cabinet. One was sitting
Speaker 1: beside the pool dressed as a lifeguard, and others set
Speaker 1: up just as other people by the water, enjoying like
Speaker 1: a pool day. So Tony went into the changing room
Speaker 1: to put on a swimsuit, and he came out shortly
Speaker 1: to join Brian at the pool. After swimming around for
Speaker 1: a bit, Brian started talking about his erratic fetishes, including
Speaker 1: using autoerotic asphyxiation and strangulation. Then he asked Tony if
Speaker 1: he'd like to see a quote unquote neat trick. Brian
Speaker 1: described how squeezing somebody's neck and cutting off circulation to
Speaker 1: the brain during sex can cause an extremely intense orgasm,
Speaker 1: and asked if Tony would like to try it. Tony agreed,
Speaker 1: and Brian took the pool hose that had been floating
Speaker 1: in the water near the men and began wrapping it
Speaker 1: around Tony's neck, tightening it slowly until he was strangling
Speaker 1: his date. As the hoes got tighter, Tony realized that
Speaker 1: Brian wasn't letting up, and realizing he might die, he
Speaker 1: decided to pretend to pass out, going limp in the water.
Speaker 1: Brian slowly let up, and after a few seconds, the
Speaker 1: would be victim startled his attempted murderer by opening his eyes.
Speaker 2: We should have had a safe word.
Speaker 1: YEA in that moment, yeah, in that moment, it clicked
Speaker 1: Tony accused Brian of being the man causing the disappearances.
Speaker 1: He told Brian he was going to go to the police,
Speaker 1: and Brian retorted, no one is going to believe a
Speaker 1: person like you. So Tony realized he was correct about
Speaker 1: the sacondation instead of being like, what the fuck are
Speaker 1: you talking about? Right, the police hadn't shown interest in
Speaker 1: the disappearances so far. He also knew he wasn't going
Speaker 1: to help anyone else unless he got out of there alive,
Speaker 1: so he decided to play along. The men drank their
Speaker 1: fill from the full bar by the pool and partied
Speaker 1: until Brian passed out. The following morning, Brian took Tony
Speaker 1: back to his car outside the nightclub, saying goodbye. Brian
Speaker 1: told Tony he'd love to see him again, and on
Speaker 1: his way home, Mark Goodyear stopped by the Indianapolis Police Department,
Speaker 1: which this seems really odd to me that he just
Speaker 1: like let the guy go. Sitting down with a couple
Speaker 1: of officers, he told him about the man. Brian smart
Speaker 1: he lived in a mansion in Hamilton County and was
Speaker 1: picking up gay men at the bars and strangling them. However,
Speaker 1: Mark couldn't give an exact description of the home and property.
Speaker 1: The clearest description he could come up with for the
Speaker 1: estate was the sign at the entrance had the name
Speaker 1: something Farm.
Speaker 2: This would be extremely useful.
Speaker 1: Except the street the estate had been built on was
Speaker 1: a road lined with farms. The police told him to
Speaker 1: keep an eye out for the man again when he
Speaker 1: went to the bar, and maybe try to get a
Speaker 1: license plate number next time. The opportunity finally arose in
Speaker 1: the spring of nineteen ninety five when Tony found Brian
Speaker 1: Smart once again. That evening, Tony asked friend of his
Speaker 1: to go outside and write it down, afraid of drawing
Speaker 1: Brian's eye to him if he were to go and
Speaker 1: get it himself. When it was handed over to the
Speaker 1: Indianapolis Missing Persons, the detective assigned to the case ran
Speaker 1: it through the DMV database. The man they were looking
Speaker 1: for was named Herbert R. Baumeister of Fox Hollow Farm.
Speaker 1: The authorities immediately drove over to the Save a Latte
Speaker 1: thrift store, which was owned by Herb Baumeister and his
Speaker 1: wife to question him. Oh Yes, a new twist. When
Speaker 1: the detective arrived, she approached the counter and asked to
Speaker 1: speak to the owner, Herb appeared shaking detective's hand, and
Speaker 1: then she bluntly asked if he had ever visited any
Speaker 1: of the gay nightclubs downtown, which, of course, he adamantly denied.
Speaker 1: She told Herb that multiple witnesses had placed him at
Speaker 1: the clubs several times, and she had gotten his license
Speaker 1: plate number from one of those eyewitnesses. Knowing he couldn't
Speaker 1: reasonably deny it anymore, he admitted that he did visit
Speaker 1: the bars occasionally and his family didn't know about it.
Speaker 2: Obviously, sure yeah.
Speaker 1: Accepting this as a likely truth of several, if not many,
Speaker 1: of the men participating in the Indianapolis gay nightclub scene,
Speaker 1: she shifted her approach to the detective, explaining she was
Speaker 1: investigating the disappearance of some missing men from the bars
Speaker 1: he visited. She indicated she felt he might know something
Speaker 1: or be involved in some way. Then she asked if
Speaker 1: the police search his property. HERB denied involvement in the
Speaker 1: disappearances and murders. He said that any further question should
Speaker 1: be said to his lawyer, a well known criminal defense
Speaker 1: attorney in Indianapolis. When he went home, he told his
Speaker 1: wife that a disgruntled former employee was making false claims
Speaker 1: against him to the police, and they needed to be
Speaker 1: very careful. And this didn't alarm her. They had been
Speaker 1: business owners for many years and she knew an unhappy
Speaker 1: employee would come along causing trouble sooner or later. When
Speaker 1: the detective went back to the police station, she called
Speaker 1: the attorney's office, who replied saying he didn't know or
Speaker 1: represent Herbert Baummeister. The detective who went back to the
Speaker 1: store and confronted Herb about the attorney's response, but then
Speaker 1: Herb doubled down, insisting that he was being represented by
Speaker 1: this attorney. She completed the check again and was again
Speaker 1: shut down by the attorney saying Nope, we don't represent him.
Speaker 1: So frustrated, annoyed, and ready to be the bad cop,
Speaker 1: she went back to the Save a Lot, only to
Speaker 1: be told that Herb had just gotten a retainer to
Speaker 1: the law office, which called the lawyers for the third time.
Speaker 1: She was told no, you cannot search mister Baumeister's property.
Speaker 1: The detective was certain her suspect was involved in at
Speaker 1: least some of the disappearances.
Speaker 2: Yeah resolved, she went to a.
Speaker 1: Forensic anthropologist who suggested lying over Fox Hollow Farm in
Speaker 1: a helicopter fitted with an infrared camera to see heat
Speaker 1: from bodies possibly decomposing on the property. I know, I
Speaker 1: didn't know that was a thing me. Either No evidence
Speaker 1: was found, either there were no decomposed bodies, or it
Speaker 1: had been too long since a body had been placed
Speaker 1: there and it was no longer emitting heat, so she
Speaker 1: was going to have to find another way. In November
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five, thirteen year old Eric Baumeister was playing
Speaker 1: in a wooded area of Fox Hollows, underdeveloped eighteen acres,
Speaker 1: just outside what would be considered the backyard. While playing,
Speaker 1: he came across a pile of partially buried bones. Curious
Speaker 1: about what he found, he grabbed the skull and took
Speaker 1: it to his mother, Julie. Unsettled, she asked Eric to
Speaker 1: take her to the area of the yard where he'd
Speaker 1: been playing, where she saw the same pile of remains.
Speaker 1: I know, this is fucking freaky things. Yeah. Later that
Speaker 1: day she would bring up the discovery to her husband, Herb,
Speaker 1: who would dismiss her concerns, telling her that those were
Speaker 1: bones of an old medical school skeleton owned by his father,
Speaker 1: doctor Herbert Ebaumeister. Julie's father in law, and her father
Speaker 1: in law had been an anesthesiologist, so it wasn't a stretch.
Speaker 1: Herb told his wife the skeleton had been made of
Speaker 1: human bones, possibly as old as the eighteen hundreds, so
Speaker 1: he'd felt it only proper to bury them rather than
Speaker 1: throw them in the trash.
Speaker 3: I know, makes a hole a little deeper so your
Speaker 3: son doesn't stumble across the.
Speaker 2: Skull, right.
Speaker 1: Julie had been married to her for twenty three years,
Speaker 1: so she was aware he was a little odd, and
Speaker 1: so she was able to put the incident, this incident
Speaker 1: like to the side out of.
Speaker 2: Her chalk it up as yep, something herbs working on. Right.
Speaker 1: Just a few days later, she went out in the
Speaker 1: yard and she noticed that the bones her son had
Speaker 1: found were gone and probably taken by an animal, is
Speaker 1: what she thought. Unknown to Julie at the time, he
Speaker 1: was surrounded by dozens of other piles of fragments just
Speaker 1: like the one Eric had found. Two years later, in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, the police would bring excavators, cadaver dogs,
Speaker 1: and officers to do a thorough sweep, eventually finding more
Speaker 1: than ten thousand bones and belonging to an estimated twenty
Speaker 1: five victims, of which only ten victims have been identified
Speaker 1: as of today. Oh my goodness, I'll tell you a
Speaker 1: little bit about our little buddy.
Speaker 2: Herb, Herb, Herb, Herb.
Speaker 1: Herb Richard Baumeister was born in Indianapolis on April seventh,
Speaker 1: nineteen forty seven, making him a series series aes. He
Speaker 1: was born to doctor Herbert Eugene and Elizabeth Schmidt Baumeister,
Speaker 1: the oldest of four. His childhood was normal. However, beginning
Speaker 1: in adolescence, Herb began having issues fitting in and showed
Speaker 1: signs of anti social behavior. During his time at North
Speaker 1: Central High School. He would show curiosity in dead animals
Speaker 1: and quote, ponder what it would be like to taste
Speaker 1: human urine? End quote. Not your usual teenage activities.
Speaker 2: Little ditty party, didty party?
Speaker 3: Oh it sounds like someone's on their way to a
Speaker 3: ditty party.
Speaker 1: Into a freak off.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: At one point, he both urinated and left a dead
Speaker 1: bird on the desk of one of his teachers. After
Speaker 1: that incident and a series of outbursts during class time,
Speaker 1: the school reached out to his parents for intervention. Tests
Speaker 1: were done, and the young man was ultimately diagnosed with
Speaker 1: paranoid schizophrenia and antisocial personality disorder. There are no records
Speaker 1: indicating he received treatment for either condition. He seemed to
Speaker 1: lead a normal life for a little while, although he
Speaker 1: was unable or uninterested in making friends due to his
Speaker 1: morbid interests. He enrolled in college at Indiana University in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five. Ultimately, though he dropped out his first semester,
Speaker 1: he would try again, enrolling in nineteen sixty seven, although
Speaker 1: he would never graduate. It was during his second attempt
Speaker 1: at higher education that he met Juliana Satyr, his future wife.
Speaker 1: The couple married in nineteen seventy one. Interestingly, that same year,
Speaker 1: before they would marry, herb would be involuntarily committed by
Speaker 1: his father for undisclosed reasons. The couple would go on
Speaker 1: to have three children. However, Julie would eventually say that
Speaker 1: during their over twenty five years of marriage, she would
Speaker 1: only be intimate with her husband six times and she
Speaker 1: never saw him naked.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, six times in twenty five years? What is that?
Speaker 2: That is outstanding?
Speaker 1: And they got pregnant three times, that's it's fertile.
Speaker 2: It's a wild, yes, wild statistic.
Speaker 3: You just don't know people's married situations. You know what
Speaker 3: kind of contract they've made with each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sure, on the outside were this, But on the inside
Speaker 3: he has his tax at jeremy studio that he might
Speaker 3: masturbate in.
Speaker 2: And this is my home life.
Speaker 1: Hey got his mannequins by the pool.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I did forget about the mannquins.
Speaker 1: Don't forget about the mannikins.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Ye.
Speaker 1: Six months after being married, Herb was again committed by
Speaker 1: his father, this time for two months. Julie excused the incident,
Speaker 1: explaining that Herb's struggles with depression had reached a point
Speaker 1: where he was simply hurting and needed help. But Herb
Speaker 1: was an amazing father. He doted on their children, showering
Speaker 1: them with attention. He took part in all aspects of childcare,
Speaker 1: sharing the parental load with Julie. He would participate in
Speaker 1: everything from choosing the children's squ ruols to making meals
Speaker 1: and shopping for clothes in gifts. During his marriage, Herb
Speaker 1: worked a series of odd jobs until he was eventually
Speaker 1: hired at the Indiana State Bureau of Motor Vehicles. With
Speaker 1: the steady income in Julie's work teaching high school English,
Speaker 1: his family was able to afford a middle class home
Speaker 1: in the Indiana suburbs. Neighbors described the couple as a
Speaker 1: bit odd, but remembered Herb in particular to have been
Speaker 1: highly energetic and excitable. His eccentricities were on full display
Speaker 1: for his neighbors as he regularly would hand out coverless magazines.
Speaker 1: Herb would participate in a scam, taking advantage of a
Speaker 1: business policy of stripped cover returns, where sellers were eligible
Speaker 1: for money back on unsold magazines and comic books if
Speaker 1: they provided the covers of the publications as proof to
Speaker 1: the distributor that they had been destroyed instead of sold.
Speaker 1: Herb would dumpster dive for the man magazines at his
Speaker 1: local croker, which had a habit of throwing them away
Speaker 1: without stripping the covers. Taking advantage, Herb would grab the
Speaker 1: magazines with the covers, bring them back home, remove the covers,
Speaker 1: and then hand them out to people he would see
Speaker 1: in a subdivision.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, mom, you want to copy a red book?
Speaker 2: Doesn't have the.
Speaker 1: Cover, but yeah, the June issue. It doesn't have the cover,
Speaker 1: but it's all there.
Speaker 2: But herb our neighbor was passing them out. You might
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 1: Occasionally, a neighbor would decline his offer of free coverless magazines,
Speaker 1: which would annoy him to no end and had led
Speaker 1: to him lashing out in front of several neighbors and guests.
Speaker 1: Another incident took place where Herb took on the responsibility
Speaker 1: of hiring contractors to build the landscaped signs at the
Speaker 1: entrance to their subdivision. After the new sign was built,
Speaker 1: Herb took it upon himself to place extravagant flower pots
Speaker 1: on top of the sign, which the HOA asked him
Speaker 1: to remove. Herb raged about how much work he'd put
Speaker 1: into the project and he deserved to put whatever flowers
Speaker 1: wherever he wanted, which was not what was agreed upon
Speaker 1: when he took the job. Great eccentric Yes in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty five. Herb had been at the Bureau of Motor
Speaker 1: Vehicles for a number of years, having worked his way
Speaker 1: up to a supervisor position. Employees there had described him
Speaker 1: as being quote a perfectionist given to sudden, unprovoked rages unquote. Eventually,
Speaker 1: he was fired after he was caught urinating on a
Speaker 1: letter addressed to the governor.
Speaker 2: That'll do it every time, Herb, come on, what the
Speaker 2: fuck now?
Speaker 1: Out of work, Herb began going to gay bars in
Speaker 1: Indianapolis to drink. During this time, he was arrested for
Speaker 1: a hit and run accident while drunk and conspiracy to
Speaker 1: commit theft, and both charges were dropped. Eventually, Herb was
Speaker 1: able to find work at thrift store. This environment suited him,
Speaker 1: and in nineteen eighty eight, he borrowed money from his
Speaker 1: mom to open the first of three thrift stores, called
Speaker 1: Save a Lot. The stores would turn enough of a
Speaker 1: profit to give thousands annually to a charity benefiting neglected children.
Speaker 1: The success of the business still let for his pride,
Speaker 1: and the couple decided to open another location. It was
Speaker 1: during the opening of the second store that strain and
Speaker 1: the family began to show. This location wasn't as successful
Speaker 1: as the first, and the hours that were required between
Speaker 1: the two locations were long. This, coupled with the pressure
Speaker 1: of parenting and some financial issues, led to Herb moving
Speaker 1: out in February nineteen ninety one and filing for divorce.
Speaker 1: This didn't last long. By November, Herb and Julie had
Speaker 1: chosen to try to work things out, and at this
Speaker 1: time the couple put down money on the four bedroom,
Speaker 1: eighteen acre estate called.
Speaker 2: Fox Hollow Farm.
Speaker 1: In January nineteen ninety two, the purchase of the Tudor
Speaker 1: style mansion with an indoor pool was complete. The asking
Speaker 1: price for the home was nine hundred and seventy nine
Speaker 1: thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh in nineteen ninety two that I was
Speaker 3: just saying nine, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: With two thrift stores in one location struggling, this purchase
Speaker 1: did little to help the couple's finances. Herb's mental and
Speaker 1: emotional volatility was showing as he became more and more
Speaker 1: unpredictable around his employees, leading to a revolving door of workers.
Speaker 1: This caused the environment in the story to become more
Speaker 1: disorganized and dirtier. Cash flow was a erratic and their
Speaker 1: home life began to fall apart. Julia and the children
Speaker 1: began spending extra time at her mother in law's condo
Speaker 1: on Lake Wawasee. She would leave Herb to look after
Speaker 1: the stores, and without his wife there, he would also
Speaker 1: be frequenting the gay bars. By the time the skull
Speaker 1: was found on the property in November nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 1: the craks in the marriage had become cavernous. In the
Speaker 1: fall of nineteen ninety five. It had been about a
Speaker 1: year since the skull had been found on Julie Moummeister's property. Police,
Speaker 1: having been unsuccessful in obtaining permission from HERB to search
Speaker 1: Fox Hollow Farm, decided to approach his wife. Julie was
Speaker 1: on indeed, and could also authorize a search of the property.
Speaker 1: Approaching missus Baummeister at the second save a lot location
Speaker 1: on the north side of Indianapolis, the detective explained that
Speaker 1: there had been several men connected to the gay community
Speaker 1: who disappeared throughout Indianapolis. They informed her that her husband's
Speaker 1: car had been spotted at a gay bar and suggested
Speaker 1: HERB might be involved. Julie was angry and shaken when
Speaker 1: she told them HERB was not violent and had never
Speaker 1: ever accidentally given her an injury or bruise. After twenty
Speaker 1: five years together, there was no way he was involved.
Speaker 1: She did not consent to a search that day, and
Speaker 1: when HERB got home, she told her husband about the
Speaker 1: detectives coming to their home. He dismissed the claims of
Speaker 1: the police, telling her that this was all to do
Speaker 1: with the former employee who was out to get him.
Speaker 1: As time progressed, Herb began day drinking while he worked
Speaker 1: at the store, and Julie filed for divorce in January
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3: The calls didn't do it, his odd behavior, didn't write.
Speaker 2: But that day drinking, I'm I'm out.
Speaker 1: I'm out.
Speaker 3: Six times of sex in twenty five years, but the
Speaker 3: day drinking.
Speaker 2: That was the final straw.
Speaker 3: What you were saying about, like how the police how
Speaker 3: She was like, Look, I've been married him for twenty
Speaker 3: he's never even hurt me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's not into the gene.
Speaker 3: Then, yeah, that's why jeels okay, because you have parts
Speaker 3: he don't like.
Speaker 2: That's all. That's why he's never hurt you. He doesn't
Speaker 2: know what to do with you.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. She took the kids to stay close by
Speaker 1: at a house in Carmel, Indiana.
Speaker 2: Herb had taken.
Speaker 1: To disappearing for periods of time, and Julie had never
Speaker 1: inquired where he'd been. The police had hoped that time
Speaker 1: would have been what Julie needed to convince her to
Speaker 1: let them search, and they came back in April, but
Speaker 1: Julie still refused to let them in. However, during the
Speaker 1: last week of June, the situation completely changed. Both of
Speaker 1: the stores closed within that month, and Julie had filed
Speaker 1: for divorce. On June twenty third, she revealed to her
Speaker 1: attorney that Eric had found bones on the property. She
Speaker 1: also disclosed that they had only had sex six times
Speaker 1: during their twenty five year marriage. During the divorce now,
Speaker 1: the first hearing had been scheduled and it was about
Speaker 1: custody of the kids, and herb missed it, so Julie
Speaker 1: was awarded emergency custody of the kids and a protective
Speaker 1: order against her husband when she didn't hear from him.
Speaker 1: After court, Julie finally allowed the police on to the
Speaker 1: property on June twenty fifth, nineteen ninety six. Within seconds
Speaker 1: on the property, the authorities were unearthing remains, pieces of clothing,
Speaker 1: shotgun shells, and restraints. The wooded area Eric had found
Speaker 1: the scullen was a relative cemetery, with el eleven complete
Speaker 1: sets of skeletons being pulled from the edge of the woods.
Speaker 1: Jullie was taken in for an interview with law enforcement
Speaker 1: on June twenty sixth, nineteen ninety six, during which she
Speaker 1: admitted that her husband was strange.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no shit, sherlock.
Speaker 1: The mannequins that Mark had said were posed within the
Speaker 1: poolhouse during his police interview, Julie said had been posed
Speaker 1: on their patio many times as well. HERB told her
Speaker 1: that it made it feel like there was a party
Speaker 1: going on, but that was just the light side of
Speaker 1: her husband.
Speaker 2: In HERB. Yeah, it was whimsical, that's.
Speaker 1: A great word, but he also had a dark side,
Speaker 1: she admitted.
Speaker 2: Quote.
Speaker 1: Ultimately, our family has always been based on my world
Speaker 1: being pretty much controlled by HERB. Julie told detectives he
Speaker 1: was and still is a very mean man who can
Speaker 1: do very mean things to people. End quote. She admitted
Speaker 1: to feeling the need to walk on eggshells around her
Speaker 1: husband as their marriage progressed and his bouts of rage
Speaker 1: became more and more frequent and less predictable. She'd wanted
Speaker 1: to allow the police to search the property, but feared
Speaker 1: her would retaliate, and she didn't want to be subject
Speaker 1: to his temper. Julie was also aware that her husband
Speaker 1: had developed a habit of disappearing for hours at first
Speaker 1: near the beginning of their marriage, coming home with mud
Speaker 1: in the wheel wells of his tires or unexplained injuries.
Speaker 1: As their marriage progressed. His disappearances began to be lengthier.
Speaker 1: He would go missing for days or weeks at a time.
Speaker 1: Julie never asked where he went or what he was doing. Girl,
Speaker 1: I would be so far up his.
Speaker 2: Liay Tanya, I was just fucking thinking that.
Speaker 3: I thought you are gone for more than if you're
Speaker 3: say you're going to be back a fucking five. I
Speaker 3: expect I'm relying on your words. You'd tell me to
Speaker 3: bet five two three or six days, two weeks. You
Speaker 3: should be afraid to come home to me. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: tell you that right now.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: Fuck you're crazy. You ain't seem crazy.
Speaker 3: I won't be ignored, Dan, Yeah right, you know I
Speaker 3: love gun clothes.
Speaker 2: I won't be ignored.
Speaker 3: Oh that is that's crazy behavior. Yes, you can't be
Speaker 3: up to good stuff if your if your wife's missing you,
Speaker 3: if your spouse is missing you and you don't tell
Speaker 3: her a shit, you can't be.
Speaker 2: Up to good things. You're not helping the poor.
Speaker 1: How is she not asking?
Speaker 2: She just cann't give a fuck. She didn't want to,
Speaker 2: but you didn't want to know. You didn't want to know.
Speaker 3: That's right, just like shut up, just leave her Herb,
Speaker 3: go wash your truck.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: Over the next two weeks, the police combed the property,
Speaker 1: finding burnt and crushed bone fragments too numerous to count.
Speaker 1: Herb Baumeister never appeared. By the time the police were
Speaker 1: beginning the search at Fox Hollow Farms, Herb was aware
Speaker 1: that he was likely going to be arrested. He began
Speaker 1: making his way to Canada. Eight days after the search began.
Speaker 1: On July third, nineteen ninety six, Herbert Baumeister drove into
Speaker 1: Heinery Provincial Park in Ontario, north of Lake Huron, parked
Speaker 1: his car just off the road, and shot himself. He
Speaker 1: left behind a lengthy suicide note lamenting his failed businesses
Speaker 1: in marriage. There was no mention of any murders due
Speaker 1: to the fact that many of the remains were thoroughly
Speaker 1: charred when they were disposed of. It wasn't until nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety nine then investigators identified eight of the victims on
Speaker 1: Fox Hollow Farm through DONA records in DNA, tex Johnny
Speaker 1: Lee Bayer was twenty years old. He went missing in
Speaker 1: May nineteen ninety three. Richard Douglas Hamilton Junior was reported
Speaker 1: missing in July nineteen ninety three, and he was also
Speaker 1: twenty years old. Manuel Martinez Resindez was thirty one years
Speaker 1: old when he disappeared on August sixth, nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: Thirty one year old Jeff Allen Jones was reported missing
Speaker 1: in August nineteen ninety three. Stephen Hale, twenty six years old,
Speaker 1: was last seen on April first, nineteen ninety four. Twenty
Speaker 1: eight year old Alan Wayne Broussard was last seen at
Speaker 1: an Indianapolis gay bar on June sixth, nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 1: Michael Frederick Kern was forty six years old when he
Speaker 1: went missing on March thirty first, nineteen ninety five. And
Speaker 1: Roger Allen Goodlett, who was thirty three years old. He
Speaker 1: had been with his mother assembling a bench on July
Speaker 1: twenty second, nineteen ninety four, before he went home to
Speaker 1: play with his kitten for a little while, and then
Speaker 1: he left to go out to the bar. Through efforts
Speaker 1: of his family members, Allen Lee Livingston, who had been
Speaker 1: missing since August nineteen ninety three, he would be identified
Speaker 1: utilizing DNA provided by his family. Daniel till Thomas Hallerin
Speaker 1: was tenth and most recent set of remains identified in
Speaker 1: April twenty twenty five. While the murders at Fox Hollow
Speaker 1: Farmer estimated to number around twenty five men, It's believed
Speaker 1: that he had started killing long before the estate was purchased,
Speaker 1: which is crazy. In nineteen ninety eight, Herb Baummeister was
Speaker 1: connected to the murders of the I seventy Strangler. In
Speaker 1: the I seventy Strangler, between June nineteen eighty and October
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, a dozen naked young men's bodies began
Speaker 1: to show up along a stretch of Interstate seventy between
Speaker 1: Indiana and Ohio. The killer was believed to have met
Speaker 1: as victims in gay bars throughout Indianapolis, strangled them, and
Speaker 1: dumped their bodies in rivers, streams, and ditches in the
Speaker 1: area surrounding the highway. The bodies stopped showing up around
Speaker 1: the time the Baummeister family moved to Fox Hollow Farms.
Speaker 1: Wow Michael Riley left the Vogue Theater in the summer
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty three. He was last seen leaving the
Speaker 1: club with an man matching description of Herb Boumceister, but
Speaker 1: at the time there were no pictures, no reference point,
Speaker 1: and Herb hadn't come onto the radar of law enforcement,
Speaker 1: Michael's body would be found in the Hancock County stream.
Speaker 1: This was the first of the dozen bodies found along
Speaker 1: the I seventy corridor. The twelve official recorded victims of
Speaker 1: the I seventy Strangler ranged in age from fourteen to
Speaker 1: forty two. After discovering Herb's name, when Mark Goodyear came forward,
Speaker 1: authorities showed the picture of Herb Baumceeister to the witness
Speaker 1: who'd watch Michael Riley get into the vehicle the night
Speaker 1: of his disappearance, and Michael Riley was the one that
Speaker 1: they said was killed by the I seventy strangler. Right,
Speaker 1: the witness identified Herb Boummeister as the man who had
Speaker 1: last been seen with Michael Riley before his death. Recent
Speaker 1: efforts to continue identifying the victims a Fox Hellow Farmer underway.
Speaker 1: Hulu released a series called The Fox Hollow Murders, Playground
Speaker 1: of a serial Killer. Earlier this year, is Hamilton County
Speaker 1: Corner launches a new investigation to identify the victims from
Speaker 1: the thousands of bone fragments found in the woods behind
Speaker 1: the farm. This is not the last we will hear
Speaker 1: of herb Baummeisters and the.
Speaker 3: Fox Hill farm finding. That's terrible. I honestly, it's fucking monstrous.
Speaker 1: I know, cooking buried them on your property.
Speaker 2: What the hell? And then thousand bone fragments, I know.
Speaker 1: And to think too, he could be the I seventy
Speaker 1: strangler is just and that he's.
Speaker 3: Like nineteen eighty to ninety one. You said, yeah, the
Speaker 3: I seventies strangler. I don't understand the forensics of scenes.
Speaker 3: How could you go eleven years murdering people and nobody
Speaker 3: was put on a task force. Something wasn't created to
Speaker 3: help people?
Speaker 2: No, but it wasn't. I don't understand it.
Speaker 3: So of course whatever I don't understand makes me angry immediately.
Speaker 3: And that's just honestly, I'm speechless. How many how many
Speaker 3: bones are in a body? Like two fifty?
Speaker 1: I think three hundred to eighty, I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, ten thousand divided by three hundred, Yeah, it's a
Speaker 3: lot more.
Speaker 2: That's a lot of people, and that's just on its farm.
Speaker 3: That's yeah. How you can go unnoticed? I know, flabergacid.
Speaker 1: I just it is flabbergasting, And like you said, the
Speaker 1: ice of New Strangler, I feel like in the last century,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean forensics has grown so much, probably
Speaker 1: and like really exploded twenty five thirty years, right. I
Speaker 1: feel like before that if anybody got caught, it was
Speaker 1: like a wing and a prayer.
Speaker 2: Oh really was right? You are right?
Speaker 1: Yes, take away from any type of investigations that people did,
Speaker 1: you know, the police and stuff. I think nowadays it's
Speaker 1: so much harder to get away. I mean people still
Speaker 1: get away with stuff, don't get it wrong, but I
Speaker 1: just like it's a lot harder because DNA. You know,
Speaker 1: we're more familiar with DNA. There's fucking cameras everywhere.
Speaker 2: I was just.
Speaker 1: Talking to a deputy for our county Sheriff's department today.
Speaker 1: There are things out on the street that if you,
Speaker 1: let's say your kid goes missing and your kid is
Speaker 1: your kid drives, they can punch into all the police
Speaker 1: and this is across the country. Please can pipe in
Speaker 1: your license plate number and they can find. These things
Speaker 1: are out on the streets so that when you pass it,
Speaker 1: they'll know, oh, Anya's car was on grash it at
Speaker 1: seven forty two pm on Wednesday, July fifteenth, and they
Speaker 1: can pinpoint it. And I had no idea these things
Speaker 1: were out there.
Speaker 2: I did either.
Speaker 1: I know, like, you can't get away with shit nowadays
Speaker 1: it seems like, I don't know, you have to kill
Speaker 1: like a stranger.
Speaker 3: That's so I forge right, the nefariousness of it, you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's too much short.
Speaker 2: I love the technology. Yeah, I'm a motherfucker.
Speaker 3: Get that fucker who sucker punches some old lady on
Speaker 3: a New York street.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm all for it.
Speaker 3: Or yeah, this car was seen passing this however they
Speaker 3: have it, love it, but you know, the only part
Speaker 3: of that makes me hate it is the potential to
Speaker 3: abuse it. The good is just so much there, Like motherfucker.
Speaker 3: But anyway, back to Herb and his things. Done that
Speaker 3: he while he was here on earth. So he blew
Speaker 3: himself away in a park to you know, it's just.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, way to go, Herb. Yeah exactly. Now the
Speaker 1: trench took itself out. Yeah really, It's just you know,
Speaker 1: there's so many unanswered. He is also the key to
Speaker 1: families who are wanting closure and unable to get it
Speaker 1: because taxi germy man, this is the world.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, now we have a super save a lot.
Speaker 3: The franchise was built on a serial killer and his wife.
Speaker 2: It's called Miracle America.
Speaker 3: America was at everything, Tanya.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was everything.
Speaker 2: So it's hard when it closes on a suicide.
Speaker 1: You know, no answers, no answers, I know, and you
Speaker 1: know it's yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: And these men that he they have families that love
Speaker 2: them very much.
Speaker 3: Right, God, the guy was playing with his kitten before
Speaker 3: you leave for the night to have fun. That's sweet,
Speaker 3: I know, you know, and he took that sweetness from
Speaker 3: someone's life.
Speaker 2: But that's why we're here to report make better choice
Speaker 2: so people can make better choices.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely so.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you Shannon for listening to this week's story,
Speaker 1: and thank you everyone for listening as well. Before you go,
Speaker 1: please hit the subscriber or follow button. Please visit our
Speaker 1: website Crimesoconsequences dot com. Shannon developed a new shirt, a
Speaker 1: new logo, and a.
Speaker 2: New little Yeah. It's called Splatter new Splatter one and
Speaker 2: Splatter two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, new design, So check it out if you they
Speaker 1: are fine for sure. Yeah, they're very cool looking. And
Speaker 1: if you want to hear more, you could check out
Speaker 1: our Patreon. It's at patreon dot com. Slash t and
Speaker 1: T crimes and what you get With your Patreon membership
Speaker 1: is you get an extra episode.
Speaker 2: Mostly every week.
Speaker 1: We try to do every week, but right now there's
Speaker 1: like two hundred and fifty plus. Yes, dam I mean,
Speaker 1: if you sign up now, you got hours, days, months.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes they do, so check that out.
Speaker 1: You can also sign up through the Apple Podcast app.
Speaker 1: So until our next episode, my.
Speaker 2: Friend, until next time, my dear, I love you, I
Speaker 2: love you.
Speaker 1: I will see you soon. Okay bye, I s.