Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen?
Speaker 2: What I.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the occult Rejects. Today we're diving into
Speaker 3: a book that is not just about The X Files
Speaker 3: as a television show, but about the X Files as
Speaker 3: a cultural event, a conspiracy artifact, and a map of
Speaker 3: the late twentieth century paranoia. We're talking about the xf
Speaker 3: ultra the deepest dive the X Files, Conspiracy Culture, and
Speaker 3: the National Security State by Christopher Knowles. Even though the
Speaker 3: tunnel alone you can see what kind of territory the
Speaker 3: book is moving through not just aliens, monsters and FBI files,
Speaker 3: but conspiracy culture, myth symbolism, state secrecy, and the machinery
Speaker 3: of modern belief. Knowles himself frames the book as a
Speaker 3: work of cultural criticism and historical and artistic analysis, not
Speaker 3: just fandom, which is important because this is clearly meant
Speaker 3: to go much deeper than a simple episode guide. Christopher
Speaker 3: Noles comes into the subject to somebody who has been
Speaker 3: circling these themes for a long time. The front matter
Speaker 3: shows a body of work already steeped in pop culture,
Speaker 3: hidden meanings, comics, rock history and symbolic analysis, and in
Speaker 3: the introduction, he makes it clear that this book grew
Speaker 3: out of decades long obsession with the X Files. He
Speaker 3: even says he co wrote the complete X Files back
Speaker 3: in two thousand and eight and describes his own background
Speaker 3: as one shaped by paranormal media, punk culture, simple spotting,
Speaker 3: and proximity to people tied to the national security world.
Speaker 3: So this is not a detached outside of looking in.
Speaker 3: This is somebody who sees The X Files as one
Speaker 3: of the great modern myth making engines of our time,
Speaker 3: and who wants to trace everything packed inside it, from
Speaker 3: UFO law and black projects to myth religion, human experimentation,
Speaker 3: and the deeper symbolic architecture of this series itself. What
Speaker 3: makes this book interesting is that Knowles is not arguing
Speaker 3: that The X Files was just a hit show with
Speaker 3: creepy monsters in great atmosphere. He's arguing it became something
Speaker 3: much larger, a lens for reading the fears, conspiracies, obsessions,
Speaker 3: and hidden tensions of the modern world. And when you
Speaker 3: look at the table of contents you can see the
Speaker 3: ambition immediately. Nineteen seventies conspiracy thrillers, UFO conspiracy theories, human experimentation, mythology,
Speaker 3: the Bible Files, the Gnostic X Files, and then season
Speaker 3: by season breakdowns tied back into all of it. This
Speaker 3: book is trying to explain why The X Files hit
Speaker 3: so hard, why it stayed alive in people's minds, and
Speaker 3: why it still feels connected to the world long after
Speaker 3: the original moment that produced it all. Right, now, enough
Speaker 3: out of me, and before we introduced this guest, let
Speaker 3: me introduce everybody else that is on the show with us,
Speaker 3: all the other rejects. What is going on, Kiva? It's
Speaker 3: good to have you back on. How are you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back on.
Speaker 4: Nice to meet you, Chris.
Speaker 5: I do traditional astrology as well as taro. You can
Speaker 5: find me at eleven Kaiba Rose thirty three dot com
Speaker 5: or Kiva Rose on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.
Speaker 3: Good to have you, No, thank you so much for
Speaker 3: making it. And my man Headless Giant. What is going on? Sir?
Speaker 3: How wire? I? Hi?
Speaker 6: You doing?
Speaker 7: You can find me on Instagram, on Twitter, and on
Speaker 7: YouTube at the Headless Giant. I'm also on Rumble right now,
Speaker 7: so check those out. I'm happy to get into it.
Speaker 7: I've got the trialogue on Sunday with Ethan Indigo and
Speaker 7: Ricardo Calvario. I'm probably gonna be doing a live with
Speaker 7: Ricardo this Sunday because he's down in Wisconsin, so we're
Speaker 7: going to have a good time doing that.
Speaker 6: So thank you.
Speaker 3: Nice, nice, nice. You know what Joey from a Library
Speaker 3: of the n told actually they're building a studio and
Speaker 3: he actually asked me if I might be able to
Speaker 3: go down there and actually record on his show, so
Speaker 3: that would be actually fucking cool.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, uh, Brandon, my man, what is going on? How
Speaker 3: will you?
Speaker 2: What's up? Everyone? So glad to be back. It feels
Speaker 2: like it's been forever since I've been on the Reject,
Speaker 2: so it's wonderful to see you Nick again. Yeah, Christopher,
Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be on this panel with you.
Speaker 2: Like I told you beforehand, I've been following you for
Speaker 2: years and years. Secret Sun Blog. Everyone should go head
Speaker 2: on over there. Lucifer's technology is something that just cracks
Speaker 2: open the code of all things. I'd say, quite brilliant.
Speaker 2: So you can all follow me on megas in the media, YouTube, X,
Speaker 2: all the thing, Instagram. We're doing it and we're doing
Speaker 2: it all the time. Yeah, I'm just really excited about
Speaker 2: this evening. X Files is one of my favorite shows.
Speaker 2: Season three, episode twenty really breaks down a lot of
Speaker 2: what's been going on in the world, I think, so
Speaker 2: I hope we get into that a little bit today. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm just excited to be here.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Oh, thank you very much. Brandon, it's been
Speaker 3: a minute. It's nice to see you back. And Jen
Speaker 3: the Ninja, what is going on? How well are you?
Speaker 8: Freda, what's a boss? Mister ninety three. I'm so glad
Speaker 8: to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me. Obviously, Kaiva,
Speaker 8: I've said this publicly on Brandon Show, but one of
Speaker 8: my favorite astrologers, probably one of the few that I
Speaker 8: really respect, so it's awesome to be on a panel
Speaker 8: with her. Brandon, of course, my erstwhile co host on
Speaker 8: our Monday Lives, which we've been doing a kind of
Speaker 8: gonzo radio, which fits right in with my show, which
Speaker 8: is Threshold Saints, which is serial Experiments, inspect Little Ontology.
Speaker 8: You can find it on a substack is my best
Speaker 8: landing platform, but also Spotify and Apple Threshold Saints substack
Speaker 8: dot com. Today I'm dropping an episode with Paul Frederick
Speaker 8: of the Demonosofty podcast and we're discussing sort of the
Speaker 8: return to Zoroastrianism or what that will look like, of
Speaker 8: course with my co host Solo Exile, and I am
Speaker 8: really excited to be on a panel with Chris. This
Speaker 8: is not my first time being on a panel with Chris.
Speaker 8: It was a couple of years ago on End of
Speaker 8: Day's Radio. But definitely I think we're going to have
Speaker 8: a really interesting discussion. I'm happy to listen and learn,
Speaker 8: and I want to shout out arrows in the chat
Speaker 8: and also Vanessa, So what's up guys and the Great
Speaker 8: Lodge represent Thank you so much, appreciate it.
Speaker 3: That's awesome, nice, thank you very much. I appreciate you
Speaker 3: making it. And finally, Christopher, please let everybody know like
Speaker 3: what's over you where they can find anything that you
Speaker 3: want to promote? Any links social media? What do you dealing?
Speaker 6: Well, I have you know, I've been on Secret Sun
Speaker 6: dot blogspot dot com since two thousand and seven. I've
Speaker 6: got the Secret Sun sub stack, and I've got the
Speaker 6: Secret Sun Institute for Advanced synchro Mysticism on Patreon and
Speaker 6: all all three of those basically you know, they're all
Speaker 6: very active. There's some cross posting but a lot of
Speaker 6: times you'll get unique information on each particular platform. But
Speaker 6: you know, things been rocking and rolling, particularly on the
Speaker 6: Patreon since twenty twenty one, so coming up on five years.
Speaker 6: Substack opened last year, and I have a YouTube channel,
Speaker 6: but I don't really do much on it, you know,
Speaker 6: I just sort of repost things. You know. Most of
Speaker 6: the materials that I will upload will be excerpts or
Speaker 6: reposts from materials that I've done for you know, the
Speaker 6: Patreon and the substacks. And I'm doing books you know
Speaker 6: I've got of course, we're talking about XCF Ultra, and
Speaker 6: I'm working on a sequel to my twenty nineteen novel
Speaker 6: He Will Live Up in the Sky, and I'm really trying.
Speaker 6: One of my plans is to get both the original
Speaker 6: book and the sequel. Now I'm done on audio book
Speaker 6: for people, which is going to be a bit of work.
Speaker 6: You know, you can't ai those kind of things, uh,
Speaker 6: you know, non fiction books because there's so much inflection
Speaker 6: and emotion and so on and so forth. So that's
Speaker 6: gonna be uh, once I get the book done, I'm
Speaker 6: about halfway through it now. Once I get the book done,
Speaker 6: I'm going to be hopefully launching a Kickstarter or whatever
Speaker 6: to uh raise the funds to get a really good reader.
Speaker 6: And both books are very much in the vein of
Speaker 6: you know, the things that you talk about that I
Speaker 6: talk about, that I blog about that I write books about,
Speaker 6: you know. So it's all in the same family. I'm
Speaker 6: not I'm not like writing like like a romance novelist,
Speaker 6: you know, or historic it's all processing the same kind
Speaker 6: of information.
Speaker 3: So that's cool.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3: You do have other stuff that you have written that
Speaker 3: I didn't mention, but yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've got a number of books. Uh you can
Speaker 6: just uh there's a bunch of christ noles is just
Speaker 6: let you know. So I I publish under my phone
Speaker 6: and Chrystopher loreng Knowles. So if you want to look
Speaker 6: me up on Amazon, just make sure because there's a
Speaker 6: actually a fairly well known author who does sort of
Speaker 6: like military fiction named Kris Nolls. So there you go.
Speaker 6: There you have it.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you very much, because I again appreciate
Speaker 3: you coming on and everybody go check out his stuff.
Speaker 3: I highly highly suggested if you if you don't know
Speaker 3: who he is, if you don't mind, I would like
Speaker 3: kind of if you could for the listeners. And I
Speaker 3: really enjoyed. I thought it was pretty interesting, maybe because
Speaker 3: of my age when we were close to the same age.
Speaker 3: I just thought it was interesting for the way that
Speaker 3: you put the context of, like, you know, before September tenth,
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety three, how your life was and how you know,
Speaker 3: how you saw the world and what you were into
Speaker 3: before you you know, hit this obsession.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was primed. I was primed and pumps. Believe me,
Speaker 6: I was. You know, I was there September tenth, nine
Speaker 6: o'clock with Bells on. I was caught in the minutes. Well,
Speaker 6: I mean what the reason being is that my wife
Speaker 6: and I were really big like Fox TV, like when
Speaker 6: it was like Simpson's and I'm embarrassed to say this,
Speaker 6: but like Beverly Hills and Melrose Plays and Grounded for Life.
Speaker 6: I mean, there was a lot of shows that we
Speaker 6: were watching at the time, and we were on Saturday nights.
Speaker 6: We had this ritual. We would order pizza and get
Speaker 6: beers and watch Cops America's Most Wanted, and then the
Speaker 6: show called Sightings.
Speaker 9: I don't know if anybody you remember Sightings, right, Yes,
Speaker 9: Sightings was sort of this like paranormal News magazine shows
Speaker 9: sort of like sixty minutes for High Weirdness, and we
Speaker 9: watched you know, that was like that was our nights.
Speaker 6: That was our Saturday nights. So we started seeing the
Speaker 6: trailers or the promos or whatever you want to call
Speaker 6: them for the X Files, and I was just like,
Speaker 6: you gotta be kidding me. I'm just like And the
Speaker 6: interesting too, is that since they used the same font
Speaker 6: that sort of stressed hype fighter font, I thought that
Speaker 6: it was a spin off of Sightings, Like I thought,
Speaker 6: the X file is going to be a spinoff of Signings,
Speaker 6: which is kind of interesting. And it was all like,
Speaker 6: you know, it's all gonna be UFOs. So just to
Speaker 6: back up, I mean, if you know any of you
Speaker 6: guys are younger, or your viewers or listeners are younger,
Speaker 6: this was a time like early nineties when like UFO
Speaker 6: culture was huge. I mean there would be like conventions,
Speaker 6: UFO conventions somewhere like almost every weekend. And this is
Speaker 6: like in the wake of like Bob Blazaar and Area
Speaker 6: fifty one was a huge thing. You know, Communion was
Speaker 6: a few years before, and then you had films like
Speaker 6: Fire in the Sky and.
Speaker 2: It was just.
Speaker 6: There was a much more innocent world. You know. We
Speaker 6: a lot of us took it more seriously maybe than
Speaker 6: it should have been taken. But it was really big.
Speaker 6: And this is also I had just gotten on the
Speaker 6: Internet shortly before the X Files began, so there is
Speaker 6: this whole thing like the X Files grew up with
Speaker 6: the Internet. I got on the Internet I think almost
Speaker 6: like maybe a week before the X Files premiered, and
Speaker 6: it was like, I can't even begin to tell you
Speaker 6: what it was like for me. I mean, this is
Speaker 6: like a little twenty four you know, bits per second modem, right,
Speaker 6: It's the little archaic thing, right, But it was just
Speaker 6: so intoxicating. It was just like I swear to God,
Speaker 6: it was like so many injecting opium directly into my
Speaker 6: brain stem. It was just incredible. And it was like
Speaker 6: that for a while. I really missed those days, I
Speaker 6: really do. But I discovered like alt conspiracy and all
Speaker 6: this kind of stuff on Usenet, which I had never
Speaker 6: really been exposed to. But at the same time I
Speaker 6: was really into like sixty Greatest Conspiracies of all Time,
Speaker 6: and a couple of years later it was the Big
Speaker 6: Book of Conspiracies, I mean, this is really the dawn
Speaker 6: of the age, and this is like apocalypse culture. I mean,
Speaker 6: I don't know if any of you guys are familiar
Speaker 6: with any of these books or whatever, but I was.
Speaker 6: There was actually a store in New York called see Here,
Speaker 6: which started out just selling like rock magazines, but then
Speaker 6: they sort of branched out and they there was a
Speaker 6: lot of conspiracy stuff. I mean there was like research
Speaker 6: and a mock press and all these kind of things,
Speaker 6: and it was really like it was brand new to me,
Speaker 6: you know. I mean, even though I had watched like
Speaker 6: In Search of and all this kind of you know,
Speaker 6: all this conspiracy movies from the seventies. Obviously Three Days
Speaker 6: of the condor Parallox Files, so on and so forth,
Speaker 6: or Parallax Parallax. Oh, not the Parallax view. I'm getting
Speaker 6: confused here. So anyhow, I was just really I was
Speaker 6: ready for it, you know, I just was prepared for it.
Speaker 6: And that first episode just totally blew me away. But
Speaker 6: then the second episode just like freaked me out. Like
Speaker 6: I really thought like I was getting put on like
Speaker 6: a watch list just for watching the show. I don't
Speaker 6: know if anybody's ever seen the second episode, but it's
Speaker 6: sort of like their Area fifty one episode. But the
Speaker 6: whole thing was just like so incredibly paranoid. It was
Speaker 6: like the most paranoid thing I think I'd ever seen
Speaker 6: on TV before. But like I said, I mean, I
Speaker 6: grew up in the seventies, so I saw Capricorn one
Speaker 6: at the movies, you know, I mean all these kinds
Speaker 6: of things. So I sort of had the same cultural
Speaker 6: background that the writers and the producers of the show had,
Speaker 6: you know, even though it was a few years younger
Speaker 6: than most of them. But you know, I was ready
Speaker 6: for it. So it was really exciting. And I still
Speaker 6: think that the X Files pilot is probably the greatest
Speaker 6: pilot ever made, you know, as far as like this
Speaker 6: is the universe, this is the world. You know, it's
Speaker 6: just completely establishing the world and setting the template and
Speaker 6: just setting the table for everything that was about to come.
Speaker 6: I mean, if you just go back and watch particular
Speaker 6: those first two episodes, it's just amazing how well they
Speaker 6: stand up.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you. I know, you do mention something
Speaker 3: in here, and I just kind of wanted to maybe
Speaker 3: have you kind of give a little bit of a
Speaker 3: background on this word hyperstitious because you do hyperstition. Oh okay,
Speaker 3: yperstitious mind work.
Speaker 6: Well yeah, I might have used it as an as
Speaker 6: an adjective. Yeah, so hyperstition is this was it. I
Speaker 6: think I might have been Nick Land who came up
Speaker 6: with it. It was I think it was.
Speaker 1: Him, Yeah, Nick, it was.
Speaker 8: It was the you know, that sort of crew out
Speaker 8: of the New School, for sure. There's a little debate
Speaker 8: about it. I agree. I would say, yeah, I think
Speaker 8: it's fair to say, like epistemologically Nick Land, okay, good,
Speaker 8: he's the one that popularized it.
Speaker 1: Anyway.
Speaker 6: So it's this whole idea of you know, using data
Speaker 6: almost as like as a form of magic. You know
Speaker 6: it really, I mean, it really is a paranormal science
Speaker 6: in some ways, I guess you would say. But it
Speaker 6: has to do with there's a line in a Great
Speaker 6: X Files episode where it says, you know, we predict
Speaker 6: the future, and the best way to predict the futures
Speaker 6: by inventing it, And that, to me is kind of
Speaker 6: how hyperstition basically works. You put all these memes and
Speaker 6: concepts and strange vocabulary and all these kind of things
Speaker 6: out there, and this is very much obviously an Internet
Speaker 6: based kind of thing from that Wild West period of
Speaker 6: the early nineties, and you start to change the course
Speaker 6: of reality through hyperstition, you know, through introducing these concepts
Speaker 6: and ideas and like I said, memes and symbols and
Speaker 6: all these kinds of things in a directed way, and
Speaker 6: it becomes almost like the sort of push and pull
Speaker 6: with external reality. Okay, and if jen am I am
Speaker 6: I on on on track there, I mean you said.
Speaker 8: I mean I I think you do a great job, Chris.
Speaker 8: I'm not going to correct you on it. I think
Speaker 8: that does exactly what it is. It's like a memetic magic.
Speaker 8: It's it's chaos magic, a little left hand path informed.
Speaker 8: It's using memes, keino as the as the Zoomers call
Speaker 8: it as I also call it, you know, creating.
Speaker 1: I think you said it perfectly.
Speaker 8: It's the creator of sort of new words, the syncretism
Speaker 8: of words itself. But all poets, in all magicians, like
Speaker 8: I always say, Austin Osman Spare, I think he is
Speaker 8: the sort of like the og at least kind of
Speaker 8: of this kind of magic. I don't think that they're
Speaker 8: pulling too far away from the you know, Western magical
Speaker 8: tradition with hyperstition. I think it's just maybe a more
Speaker 8: literary or literate way to articulate this exactly the same thing.
Speaker 6: Well, I think, you know, the whole chaos aspect of it,
Speaker 6: I think is you know, you've put the put your
Speaker 6: finger on it there. Because the best example I think
Speaker 6: of hyperstition would be the whole Kech thing from twenty
Speaker 6: sixteen and me on so, and then there was that
Speaker 6: you know, rather underwhelming X Files revival that same year
Speaker 6: in twenty sixteen, so that would be the you know,
Speaker 6: the whole Kech thing, four chan and all that kind
Speaker 6: of thing. So, but it's something that I've been thinking
Speaker 6: more and more and more about. I mean, this is
Speaker 6: something that we can discuss in another episode maybe. But
Speaker 6: the two things that I say are that, you know,
Speaker 6: as far as synchronisticism is concerned, which I think is
Speaker 6: sort of the redheaded cousin of hyperstition in some ways,
Speaker 6: it's sort of the poor relation of hyperstition. But I
Speaker 6: think the X Files in my mind and the work
Speaker 6: that I've done, and I think the work that I
Speaker 6: put in the book bears this out. I think it's
Speaker 6: the most the second most potent synchronistic generator that I've
Speaker 6: ever seen, and then I can even imagine. I don't
Speaker 6: think you could have something with that kind of power
Speaker 6: at any other time, like not even now, you know,
Speaker 6: that time and history, when you still had a mass culture.
Speaker 6: We don't have a mass culture anymore. When the Internet
Speaker 6: was new, it's not new anymore. You had all these
Speaker 6: preconditions that allowed something that was just pumping all this
Speaker 6: incredibly potent symbolism into the culture, and it changed. It
Speaker 6: changed the I mean I think it changed the course
Speaker 6: of history. And that might sound a little over ambitious
Speaker 6: in some ways, but but I really do believe it.
Speaker 6: I think that it changed the way people thought, Like
Speaker 6: you wouldn't have people like Alex Jones and Mark Dice
Speaker 6: in the late nineties without the X Files. I mean,
Speaker 6: those people were just they just would have never gained
Speaker 6: any traction. They would have just seen as you know
Speaker 6: as the way the people like that were seen prior
Speaker 6: to the X Files is just completely marginal, irrelevant, koops.
Speaker 6: And it was because the X Files had made this
Speaker 6: whole worldview so alluring, And I think alluring is really
Speaker 6: the term that it gave, you know, conspiracy culture and
Speaker 6: all the rest of it a push that I can't
Speaker 6: imagine would it ever ever happened without it?
Speaker 3: Okay, that's interesting that you're saying that. I just want
Speaker 3: to ask real quick, maybe your opinion and other people's opinion.
Speaker 3: Could you see the Epstein files kind of like being
Speaker 3: the kind of redone again, because like that's now giving
Speaker 3: people who were like maybe like I've known a lot
Speaker 3: of people, have seen a lot of people that really
Speaker 3: that was their conspiracy awakening. Now, so like I feel
Speaker 3: like it's it's putting. I also have a problem with
Speaker 3: believing it might be real, but I do see that
Speaker 3: now it's like it is putting shit that was considered
Speaker 3: a year or two ago, fucking fanatic thinking into like,
Speaker 3: oh no, what's real.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, it's true. But I also thinks there is
Speaker 6: a lot of hyperstition there. But I'll also think that
Speaker 6: I think that Epstein himself was very aware of the
Speaker 6: of the concept of hyperstition and the concept of me magic.
Speaker 6: You know, he was he was hanging out on all
Speaker 6: these boards. I mean, didn't he have I did? I
Speaker 6: am I correct? Did he have like a four chance account?
Speaker 6: I know he had a discord I think, so, I
Speaker 6: mean he was tuned into this all these ideas and
Speaker 6: so on. He was following all this stuff. So I
Speaker 6: think it gets to be very murky. But I do
Speaker 6: think one of the main one of the I think
Speaker 6: one of the main objectives behind the epstein whatever it is.
Speaker 6: I mean, whether it's a pyop or hyperstition or conspiracy,
Speaker 6: whatever you choose to label it as. And it's going
Speaker 6: to depend on how you perceive it, right, But I
Speaker 6: think and I said this, and I got in trouble
Speaker 6: for saying this, but it's like, I think the idea
Speaker 6: was like to push the concept, to push this notion
Speaker 6: in the public mind that elite pedophiles are interested in
Speaker 6: post pubescent girls, when in reality, elite pedophiles are almost
Speaker 6: exclusively interested in pre pubescent boys. Okay, I mean that's
Speaker 6: just the reality of it. And I think that people
Speaker 6: have gotten sort of misdirected, you know. I think it's
Speaker 6: very convenient for a lot of people who are involved
Speaker 6: in elite predation let's just call it, to think, oh, well,
Speaker 6: it's just you know, it's these sixteen year old girls
Speaker 6: who you know, they would have gotten in trouble somehow anyway.
Speaker 6: You know, they are just you know, from trailer parks,
Speaker 6: and they're all headed for trouble. You know, they probab
Speaker 6: would have just been like working the strip in Pensacola
Speaker 6: or something whatever. And then that's shifting the shifting the
Speaker 6: focus away from what it really should be on, which
Speaker 6: is that it's always been It's always been and you
Speaker 6: read this in religion, in history and myth it's always
Speaker 6: been focused on pep besting boys. And this might be
Speaker 6: like a little bit of a you know, maybe this
Speaker 6: is a little bit too much of us, you know,
Speaker 6: a strong drink for people, but I really do believe.
Speaker 3: That, and I think, well, I thought that was something
Speaker 3: weird about the files. I was like, where's the boys.
Speaker 3: It's like, this is old girls. Like I did actually
Speaker 3: find that weird.
Speaker 6: I was like it was, yeah, well that's see, that's
Speaker 6: the thing that gets my hackles up. That's the thing
Speaker 6: that raises my suspicions about the true nature of this
Speaker 6: whole operation. And like I said, I mean, it's like
Speaker 6: I think most people take it for granted if you
Speaker 6: read the newspaper even that you know, girls under the
Speaker 6: age of twenty, you know, say, between the ages of
Speaker 6: fourteen and twenty are very highly sought aft or for prostitution,
Speaker 6: whether it's in sort of this gray market prostitution in
Speaker 6: Las Vegas or Los Angeles, wherever, you know, whatever you're
Speaker 6: talking about. And I think it's just like the problem
Speaker 6: that I had. And this gets to vocabulary and definition. Epstein,
Speaker 6: as we know it was not technically a pedophile. He
Speaker 6: was in a feeble file. He was interested in adolescence.
Speaker 6: Those are two different phenomena. You might have been following
Speaker 6: this horrible situation in Texas, right with this FedEx driver
Speaker 6: who kidnaps this girl. See that, to me is what
Speaker 6: see Pedophilia to me is also very very much a
Speaker 6: misnomer because really what it is is pedopathy because it always,
Speaker 6: it always leads to violence. You know, the children in
Speaker 6: the materials that they consume always get younger and younger
Speaker 6: and younger. It always becomes violent, all right, it always be.
Speaker 6: It doesn't always end in murder, but violence is really
Speaker 6: at the core of it, because it is a moral sickness, Okay,
Speaker 6: And I think redefining that is this this some sleazy
Speaker 6: old banker from New York who has a taste for
Speaker 6: sixteen year old blonde girls from Florida doesn't really do
Speaker 6: the real problem. You know, it doesn't do that doesn't
Speaker 6: do justice to what the problem really is all about. Okay,
Speaker 6: so I'm sorry, I'll get off my soap.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're good.
Speaker 6: It's just you know, you'll see a lot of this
Speaker 6: in the X Files too. I mean a lot of episodes.
Speaker 6: One episode that I'm thinking of in particular, and there's
Speaker 6: you know, since this is meant for public consumption, we
Speaker 6: won't get into a think he was really going after.
Speaker 6: But there's an episode called Red Museum, which is one
Speaker 6: of what I call the nonfiction episodes, and it's it's
Speaker 6: about this town where they're injecting the cattle with weird
Speaker 6: genetically modified drugs and so on, but they're also injecting
Speaker 6: the kids, and it's you know, a pedo sort of
Speaker 6: blows the cover on the whole thing. But as I said,
Speaker 6: I mean, he's interested in young boys, you know what
Speaker 6: I'm saying. And that's really again, I mean, this is
Speaker 6: you know, maybe a little bit too dark for noontime
Speaker 6: on a Friday, but that's just that's just the way
Speaker 6: it is. And that's the problem that I do have
Speaker 6: with the Epstein materials is that I think that it
Speaker 6: is a huge distraction for what the problem really is.
Speaker 2: There's a I do want to add to that and
Speaker 2: also kind of like take a paradigm shift. But in
Speaker 2: that the whole idea of Chris Carter and X files
Speaker 2: kind of blowing this thing open for for like an
Speaker 2: Alex Jones and everyone to do their thing. I completely agree,
Speaker 2: and it's quite fascinating. How then, that is itself a
Speaker 2: paradigm shift in the collective consciousness of the media marketing
Speaker 2: slash human angle to be able to see something and
Speaker 2: then for to like basically plant seeds of people who
Speaker 2: are already on the outskirts and then allow it for
Speaker 2: them to open up these radio shows and things like that.
Speaker 2: So I do find that to be it's an easy
Speaker 2: way to see how modern myth is interactive in human experentiality,
Speaker 2: and how it's not just myths are outside of us
Speaker 2: and humans and the experiences we have or outside of us,
Speaker 2: but they're deeply integrated and as well. You then get
Speaker 2: this inversion with what you were just talking about with
Speaker 2: how how do you traumatize and create traumatized humans is
Speaker 2: to start at a young age, no matter who they are,
Speaker 2: boy or girl. But it's really fascinating that then in
Speaker 2: the military industrial mechanized, old garchical parasite class that how
Speaker 2: do you build up people in vulnerable states, Just like
Speaker 2: in the LSD experiments, you put somebody in a vulnerable state.
Speaker 2: It doesn't always have to be a drugs. It can
Speaker 2: be with these lower circuits that you know, sex and
Speaker 2: all these different things and put them through terrible emotions
Speaker 2: and then you can implant these circuitry these new programs,
Speaker 2: put them into Hollywood, put them into the public sphere,
Speaker 2: and it's almost like they're walking eggrogres themselves. They're walking
Speaker 2: dark shades of the Night of the kliptotic spirits. As
Speaker 2: then they go and they push up against everybody else,
Speaker 2: you know, And so it's a fascinating that's a fascinating discussion.
Speaker 2: So I just want to add that to it. Is
Speaker 2: how you create an inverted myth for our culture to
Speaker 2: follow and then at the same time be able to
Speaker 2: cover it up and say, well, that's just all fantasy.
Speaker 2: Because it just happened in a TV show doesn't mean
Speaker 2: it's happening in real life. And so there's just so
Speaker 2: many layers.
Speaker 6: Well, there's also a liminality to it as well. Okay,
Speaker 6: because when you the whole thing is that Chris Carter said,
Speaker 6: it has to be real. You know, it's only scary
Speaker 6: if it's real. But to me, the episodes I'm not
Speaker 6: afraid of, the episodes of you know, vampires or whatever, right, mutants, zombies,
Speaker 6: you know, I'm the episodes of the X Files that
Speaker 6: really scare me are the ones that I call the
Speaker 6: non fiction episodes, the episodes about mind control, the episodes
Speaker 6: about human experimentation. I mean, there's and there's a whole
Speaker 6: host of those, right, those episodes are the ones that
Speaker 6: really get on your skin. And I had mentioned that
Speaker 6: second episode Deep Throat. Now, if you watch that up, actually,
Speaker 6: if you watch the first two episodes, you doesn't. And
Speaker 6: I write this in the book, there's no reason to
Speaker 6: believe that any of this is aliens, that anything that
Speaker 6: you're seeing is anything but the military. And and this
Speaker 6: is something that's explicitly spelled out in the in the
Speaker 6: series as well in the fifth season, there's no reason
Speaker 6: if you go back and watch that, it's just it's
Speaker 6: all about people being experienced on the first season, you know,
Speaker 6: the first pilot, like I said, it's about kids being
Speaker 6: experimented on and there's no there's no trace. You don't
Speaker 6: see a gray, you don't see a UFO. I mean,
Speaker 6: you'll you'll see some lights in the woods and so on,
Speaker 6: but that could be anything. That could be some sort
Speaker 6: of helicopter, could be any you know, just something special
Speaker 6: effects that they were putting on for the for the
Speaker 6: agent's benefit. So when you when you put it in
Speaker 6: that kind of context. And this is why the Scully
Speaker 6: character is so important too, because she ideally provides a
Speaker 6: very credible alternative explanation to what you're seeing. And there
Speaker 6: is this weird and this, you know, this cuts to
Speaker 6: the heart of the liminality. There's something that I've always
Speaker 6: noticed is that the most effective paranormal, supernatural, mystical, whatever
Speaker 6: kind of stories you're talking about. To me, the most
Speaker 6: effective ones are the ones that are for you, within
Speaker 6: the narrative, a very credible counter explanation to the paranormal,
Speaker 6: to the to the mystical, to the spiritual, to the supernatural.
Speaker 6: But ever, this this is a very strange power and
Speaker 6: I think it is some sort of I'm not exactly
Speaker 6: even sure how to explain it, but it's something that
Speaker 6: I've noticed, you know, throughout you know, throughout all the
Speaker 6: things that I've read and watched and so on and
Speaker 6: so forth, that the best story. That's why the Scully
Speaker 6: character is so important to me, because she's the voice
Speaker 6: of the audience. And I think I believe Chris Carter
Speaker 6: said that. So that's when that liminality and that and
Speaker 6: then it starts to break out of the screen. You know,
Speaker 6: it starts to break out of the confines of fictional content, right,
Speaker 6: it starts to I don't I don't want to use
Speaker 6: the word infect because that sort of has a negative
Speaker 6: connotation to it, but it's you know, it starts to
Speaker 6: play in seeds in your mind. And that again, that's
Speaker 6: why I think the show was so I mean, there'd
Speaker 6: been a bunch of shows in the past, like The
Speaker 6: X Files. You know, the main example that people always
Speaker 6: cite is cull Check the Night Stalk from the early seventies,
Speaker 6: but that didn't have a powerful counterargument to the paranormal
Speaker 6: and that's why it didn't last long, and that's why
Speaker 6: it didn't have the effect, right, I mean, let's be
Speaker 6: frank here. I mean, it's also the chemistry between David
Speaker 6: d'copany and Jillian Anderson, ironically, who hated each other's guts
Speaker 6: when they were making the show, but they had this
Speaker 6: incredible on screen chemistry. But see, that's what that's what
Speaker 6: it was really all about for me, is that when
Speaker 6: ideas break out of the confines of fiction, when they
Speaker 6: break the confines of entertainment, when they break out of
Speaker 6: the confines of like a weekly television show, and they
Speaker 6: start to plan seeds in the culture, and that is
Speaker 6: a formula that will never be replicated. I don't think
Speaker 6: I don't think you'll ever see anything like that again.
Speaker 6: And that paradigm shift that you're referring to really boils
Speaker 6: down to a bunch of really smart people who really
Speaker 6: did the reading, really did the research, and maybe did
Speaker 6: have this sort of sense that they did want to
Speaker 6: They didn't have the term for it. I don't know
Speaker 6: if they knew of the term hyperstition, but they were basically,
Speaker 6: you know, it's it is a former chaos magic, I
Speaker 6: think ideally.
Speaker 7: So in some ways, you could see the bi camera
Speaker 7: mind in both Molder and Scully. Right, You've got this
Speaker 7: this guy going out there and trying to find the unknown,
Speaker 7: and then the grounding of the more rational in Scully
Speaker 7: and the two of them together almost walk the audience
Speaker 7: up to the point of actually believing this stuff, because
Speaker 7: in a lot of ways, at the end of the episode,
Speaker 7: Scully's explanations are kind of like too outside of the realm,
Speaker 7: and you're almost like yelling at her. Can't you see
Speaker 7: it's right in front of your face?
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 7: Meanwhile, you know, Moulders out there getting kidnapped by Grays
Speaker 7: or whatever it is, and you don't know, you know
Speaker 7: exactly how to get back to it, but you know,
Speaker 7: it's like a step by step process where the audience
Speaker 7: is then, you know, led to the conclusion that maybe
Speaker 7: there is something else out there, or maybe there is,
Speaker 7: but you're always left with that uncertainty because of those
Speaker 7: two characters and their reflective nature on each other.
Speaker 6: Well, there's a very important concept here that I know.
Speaker 6: I mean, since I did work on the book and
Speaker 6: I read you know, these hours of transcripts of interviews
Speaker 6: and so on with all the producers and writers and
Speaker 6: so on, they were very focused on point of view,
Speaker 6: like who is telling you this story? And really all
Speaker 6: everything you see on the screen is the result of
Speaker 6: an unreliable narrator. It's always from somebody's point of view,
Speaker 6: which is colored by their preconceptions, which is colored by
Speaker 6: their beliefs, which is colored by their prejudices. Okay, so
Speaker 6: that's something when you go, if you're going to do
Speaker 6: like a rewatch, you know you're not watching a presentation
Speaker 6: of objective reality ever on that show, Okay, And and
Speaker 6: very deliberately so, they always were presenting you who is
Speaker 6: telling you this story? Is this scholar? Is this Mauldi scholar?
Speaker 6: Is this Skully? Is a small or is this somebody else?
Speaker 6: I mean, who who's who?
Speaker 2: Is?
Speaker 6: Whose point of view is this story coming from? And
Speaker 6: one of the things that I mean, one of the
Speaker 6: main sections in the book is I my fand theory,
Speaker 6: my Ultimate ex Files fant theory. And and I'll share
Speaker 6: this now. I mean, I might as well just let
Speaker 6: us loose. Now. I have this fan theory that The
Speaker 6: X Files is really about these two subjects of this vast,
Speaker 6: far reaching mind control and eugenics program. Okay, and bear
Speaker 6: with me here. I've thought about this for a very
Speaker 6: long time. So really, what Molder and Scully are is
Speaker 6: that their assassins, Okay, they're programmed assassins, and they're programmed
Speaker 6: with their particular point of view with their particular prejudices, right,
Speaker 6: But there's this huge program, this post war program, this
Speaker 6: eugenics program, you know, to create a slave race, to
Speaker 6: create super soldiers, you know, to create all these various, uh,
Speaker 6: subsets of humanity. And they were chosen because their families
Speaker 6: were both part of the military industrial complex. They were chosen,
Speaker 6: you know, not only to be these programmed assassins. So
Speaker 6: when they're hunting down these monsters and so on, really
Speaker 6: what they're hunting down are the rejects or the escapees
Speaker 6: from this genetic engineering program. And I mean, as crazy
Speaker 6: as that sounds to some people, there is an episode
Speaker 6: in that twenty sixteen season called Founders Mutation that basically
Speaker 6: kind of spells that out. And that was that was
Speaker 6: the episode. I mean, even though that series miniseries whatever
Speaker 6: was pretty underwhelming, that episode blew my mind open because
Speaker 6: I'm like, oh, there's there's the final puzzle. So you're
Speaker 6: not watching these two separate series where like there'll be
Speaker 6: the episodes with the UFO and alien conspiracy and then
Speaker 6: you'll watch the episodes with like the monsters and so on. No,
Speaker 6: it's all the same story because they're not aliens, they're
Speaker 6: not monsters as we understand them. It's all part of
Speaker 6: this genetics program, and Moulderin's Gully are programmed to think
Speaker 6: that they're fighting monsters or they're chasing aliens or whatever
Speaker 6: to assuage their consciences so they can, you know, they
Speaker 6: can kill these poor creatures who are all part of
Speaker 6: this genetic horrific experimentation you know that started in the
Speaker 6: post war paper clip and all the rest of it.
Speaker 6: But at the same time, they're also being primed to
Speaker 6: create like children, you know, bere offspring for the new
Speaker 6: super race. Now I spelled this out in great detail
Speaker 6: because I can cite you chapter in verse in all
Speaker 6: the different episodes that bolst of this theory. And like
Speaker 6: I said, in those first two episodes, you don't see aliens.
Speaker 6: There's no why would you believe in aliens. There's no
Speaker 6: sign of aliens anywhere. I mean, you don't. I don't
Speaker 6: think you even see actual, like sort of gray aliens
Speaker 6: until the second season, and even then you're not sure
Speaker 6: if it's a hallucination or not. And that's kind of
Speaker 6: the magic of the series as well. Now, if you
Speaker 6: go back and watch that with that in mind, you
Speaker 6: should also you know, read the book so I can
Speaker 6: explain it for you know, episode by episode it will
Speaker 6: start to you'll suddenly realize that you're watching a completely
Speaker 6: different series than the one you thought you were. And
Speaker 6: again that granted that is a theory, right, it's a
Speaker 6: fan there, but I think it's pretty well supported by
Speaker 6: the evidence. So there you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great. I wanted to bring up, like I
Speaker 2: did beforehand, my favorite episode. I have a bunch of
Speaker 2: favorite episodes, but it's from season three, episode twenty, the
Speaker 2: jose Chunk from outer Space.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, there you go. That's the that's the one.
Speaker 2: That's exactly. That's the one what I'm talking about. And
Speaker 2: it's got so many exactly so it's got so many
Speaker 2: layers in it. So I don't know if it's better
Speaker 2: for you to describe it what's going on there, because
Speaker 2: you get everything. You get the two kids who are
Speaker 2: driving home after a date and they get confronted by
Speaker 2: a UFO and then and all you know is that
Speaker 2: they go, they get home, they don't know how they
Speaker 2: got there. The girl has her clothes inside out. People
Speaker 2: are thinking it's it's date grape. And then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, the boy's like no, that's not what happened.
Speaker 2: And then Moulder and Scully are being interviewed by Jose Chung,
Speaker 2: who's an actual writer in real life and he wrote
Speaker 2: that episode, right, is that No?
Speaker 6: No, he's a fictional character.
Speaker 2: Oh I thought he was an actual writer. Okay, nice,
Speaker 2: Well they got okay.
Speaker 6: But there are two different theories that I've heard. One
Speaker 6: is that he's based on John Keel.
Speaker 2: That's actually what i've heard, you're and the other.
Speaker 6: One is that he's based on Whitley Streeber.
Speaker 2: That's a good combination, but take you. Yeah, But for
Speaker 2: the episode, why it's exactly what you were just talking
Speaker 2: about is because you're getting now Moulder and Scully being
Speaker 2: interviewed by this writer who's trying to write this piece
Speaker 2: on on aliens and different things, and they're trying to
Speaker 2: break down and understand if this was actually a terrible
Speaker 2: sexual encounter, or if they actually were abducted by UFOs,
Speaker 2: or if it was the Military Industrial Complex who actually
Speaker 2: took them in for human experimentation and then did a
Speaker 2: psychological experiment on them that blanked out their memory, or
Speaker 2: actually it was all three and not the gray aliens,
Speaker 2: but different aliens were going on. So you get memory.
Speaker 2: You get these kids who actually have imprinted implanted memories
Speaker 2: of being abducted by gray aliens, and they both have
Speaker 2: similar but slightly different understandings of what that abduction happened.
Speaker 2: And as they're going through it, they're able to peer
Speaker 2: through moldernscoolre able to peer through the actual layers of
Speaker 2: the abduction theory to see that it wasn't a gray alien,
Speaker 2: but it was the military industrial complex psychotherapist who was
Speaker 2: putting them in an hypnotic trance to make them believe
Speaker 2: that it was an alien abduct But by the end
Speaker 2: of it, you actually get to see this alien that
Speaker 2: was there, that was there on the outside, and it's
Speaker 2: so crazy. And you also get the men in black
Speaker 2: coming in just even true, I think is one of
Speaker 2: them if I wasn't mistaken or WI. Yeah, exactly. And
Speaker 2: so that's a perfect micro macrocosm to exactly what you
Speaker 2: were saying of question, the questioning of the question, to
Speaker 2: try to get back to what the main theory was
Speaker 2: that it was there were aliens evolved, but not really,
Speaker 2: it was the military industrial complex and not really. The
Speaker 2: mind is so malleable, and I think that's one of
Speaker 2: the base theories of the X Files is the malleability
Speaker 2: of the mind through paradigm shifts of conscious and people
Speaker 2: trying to work on it.
Speaker 6: So that's nice. Well, I wonder sometimes if that's what
Speaker 6: I don't like this term, but if that was like
Speaker 6: a revelation of the method X Files episode you know,
Speaker 6: so killing this is what it's really about. It's about
Speaker 6: the military abducting people and hypnotizing them into believing they
Speaker 6: were taken by aliens and so on. Yeah, you know
Speaker 6: what that episode is explicitly about. And there are hints
Speaker 6: of that, like I said, throughout the series, and like
Speaker 6: the first two episodes, I think you could plug that
Speaker 6: same interpretation into So yeah, that's that's a good one,
Speaker 6: and I recommend that everybody watched that.
Speaker 2: Uh, and you also get the.
Speaker 6: Talking up my hat about my fan theory. I think
Speaker 6: if you watch that, you'll see it pretty much play
Speaker 6: out there, no.
Speaker 2: Plays out directly. You even get the paranoia of Molder
Speaker 2: going into a coffee shop and eating pie and talking
Speaker 2: to this like diner individual and that whole thing you
Speaker 2: don't even know is real or not, because then you
Speaker 2: have other people going in there and trying to test
Speaker 2: the theory of molder did you actually go there? And
Speaker 2: they're continually going back to the writer and telling them
Speaker 2: the story, and it's one of the best episodes. I
Speaker 2: do everyone go out there? Season three, episode.
Speaker 6: Twenty Yeah, good man, that's I'm glad. That's awesome.
Speaker 5: It's interesting from the astrology of actually, like when the
Speaker 5: season came out, it was during that like Neptune Uranus
Speaker 5: conjunction as well as like the Saturn square Pluto happening,
Speaker 5: so like Saturn's and Aquarius, and so when we think
Speaker 5: like last time, you know, Saturn was an Aquarius, recently
Speaker 5: was like covid times, right, So it's interesting, Like the
Speaker 5: interesting thing about Saturn and Aquarius is it's like people
Speaker 5: want to belong to something, right, they want to be
Speaker 5: a part of something. And then just going back to
Speaker 5: like what you said about the show being able to
Speaker 5: just blast people to like the expansion like that is
Speaker 5: like that Neptune Uranus thing. It's like, you know, and
Speaker 5: it's in Capricorn, so Urinus was blasting open Saturn's world
Speaker 5: of materiality, and then you have Neptune giving us this
Speaker 5: like foggy, very like grounded glimpse of the others.
Speaker 4: So it's interesting, Like the way you described it is
Speaker 4: very much like I.
Speaker 5: Looked up the chart for when if you said the
Speaker 5: show star it well all the time exactly.
Speaker 6: But yeah, well I'm glad you brought that up too,
Speaker 6: because there's that whole idea. I mean, correct me if
Speaker 6: I'm wrong, but Neptune sort of having a deceptive and
Speaker 6: aspect to it as well. So I think that's that's. Uh.
Speaker 6: There is an episode they did do an episode on astrology.
Speaker 6: That's an episode called ZG, and it was about you know,
Speaker 6: one of these where all the planets the line up
Speaker 6: and just one particular town in New Hampshire. You know,
Speaker 6: people just all started going crazy because of this this conjunction.
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know if that's grounded in real
Speaker 6: astrology personally, but I recommend you check out that episode
Speaker 6: and maybe get back to me and tell me any
Speaker 6: sort of my real life. It's called ZG, you know,
Speaker 6: like the whole idea.
Speaker 2: I just found it. It's episode thirteen, season three. We'll
Speaker 2: watch it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely definitely recommend that. But you know, and another
Speaker 6: inesing thing too is that you know, so I talk
Speaker 6: about synchronicity and there's an episode in the ninth season
Speaker 6: where Burt Reylds plays God. Right, but it is all
Speaker 6: about pattern recognition and synchronicity. And if you listen to
Speaker 6: the the director's commentary, Chris Carter gives this whole commentary,
Speaker 6: but it almost sounds like he's like a neoplatonist in
Speaker 6: some ways, you know. I mean, it's like his whole
Speaker 6: and it's almost like very medieval thinking as well too,
Speaker 6: because it's all about, you know, recognizing patterns and that
Speaker 6: God is constantly presenting us with these sort of puzzles
Speaker 6: that we need to solve and everything like that, which
Speaker 6: is kind of the basis of you know, what I've
Speaker 6: been doing for for a number of years, that we're
Speaker 6: presented with with all these puzzles that if we start
Speaker 6: to recognize the pawn and that's explicitly in the dialogue too.
Speaker 6: You know, it's like the winners recognize the patterns, they
Speaker 6: can sense the patterns, and they can work with the patterns,
Speaker 6: you know, which to me is it's almost a synchronistic
Speaker 6: manifesto in some ways. So anyway, there you go.
Speaker 7: Well, in a lot of ways, the the the introduction
Speaker 7: of this strategic ambiguity that the X Files was constantly
Speaker 7: harping on has been utilized to a great extent by
Speaker 7: you know, actual policy.
Speaker 6: Makers within the government.
Speaker 7: If you if you know about cast Sunstein and his uh.
Speaker 6: I was just reading about him yesterday. It's so weird.
Speaker 6: Go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 10: Hey, synchromistic, right, but that idea of like injecting these
Speaker 10: new ideas into maybe problematic pattern noticers is sort of
Speaker 10: the entire presentation.
Speaker 7: And what a lot of people miss from that is
Speaker 7: his co author is a you know, one of these jesuits, right,
Speaker 7: He's he's a jesuit talking with Cass Sunstein about how
Speaker 7: how we can cognitively infiltrate the conspiracy movement. And in
Speaker 7: a lot of ways, you can you can kind of
Speaker 7: play off of a lot of the themes in X
Speaker 7: files and say, well, what can we gain from this
Speaker 7: show that we can inject into the conspiracy community to
Speaker 7: maybe divert them off in different directions. And it's it's
Speaker 7: almost like it's a culmination of all of these different
Speaker 7: hyperstitions and now they become the hyperstition magicians, putting out
Speaker 7: strategic ambiguity and all sort of walks of life, you know,
Speaker 7: flooding the zone.
Speaker 6: Well, I think, I think Sunstein, I'm familiar with that
Speaker 6: whole idea. And there was there was a Pentagon paper
Speaker 6: that was released, the one with that had like an
Speaker 6: inteller on the cover of it or something that's very
Speaker 6: boomer thinking. You know, I don't I don't like to
Speaker 6: sort of lapse into these sort of generational stereotypes, but
Speaker 6: that it's very much like boomer thinking.
Speaker 2: That it's the boomers, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: Yes, so you have this mainstream, right, and then you
Speaker 6: have this other mainstream that you can infiltrate and manipulate
Speaker 6: the way they've infiltrated manipulated the mainstream. Well, it's not
Speaker 6: like that anymore. There is no mainstream. There were thousands
Speaker 6: and thousands of streams. I mean, it looks like, let's
Speaker 6: call them capillaries right there. There is no main vein
Speaker 6: of conspiracy thinking anymore. It's this roiling and mutually hostile
Speaker 6: network of capillaries. Okay, and that's increasing. I mean, all
Speaker 6: you have to do is just go on a Twitter.
Speaker 6: And I think that that kind of like cast sunsteam
Speaker 6: thinking is very archaic, and I don't think that it's
Speaker 6: really subscribed to anymore. You know, There's certainly been attempts
Speaker 6: to sort of manipulate the alternative, you know, the other
Speaker 6: mainstream quote unquote, but it always fails because you've got
Speaker 6: groups of young people who have these micro mini micro cultures,
Speaker 6: whose language and whose mode of thought and whose methods
Speaker 6: of communication are so are cain and so hyper specialized
Speaker 6: that you can't infiltrate that. You know, it becomes like
Speaker 6: that meme that the Steve Semi meme, Hello fellow kids, right,
Speaker 6: you know you can't you can't infiltrate some discord group
Speaker 6: with these extremely online kids who've been talking to each
Speaker 6: other exclusively for for years, have their own vocabulary, their
Speaker 6: own modes of unconscious signaling. Even you can't infiltrate that.
Speaker 6: You can't subvert that anymore. And I think I think
Speaker 6: that's really played into the you know, what I see is,
Speaker 6: you know, we are in the middle of the Fourth Turning,
Speaker 6: and I think the X Files in some ways, you know,
Speaker 6: I mean, it was thirty years ago, right, but I
Speaker 6: think that it did sort of presage Fourth Turning in
Speaker 6: a lot of ways. And the people who I don't
Speaker 6: want to say they're in power, you know, that's sort
Speaker 6: of a subjective term. But the people who grew up
Speaker 6: on the X files are the people who are moving
Speaker 6: into positions of influence in whatever field or or not.
Speaker 6: If they didn't grow up with the X files, they
Speaker 6: grew up in that same environment, right, And you know,
Speaker 6: talking about people like Mark Dice and Alex Jones and
Speaker 6: so on. I mean, if you go back, I don't
Speaker 6: even know if you can even find the stuff because
Speaker 6: everything is disappearing from the Internet these days. But you
Speaker 6: know a lot of quote unquote conspiracy sites, you know,
Speaker 6: would use something like files, and you know they're always
Speaker 6: trying to sort of glom there, get some of that glamour, right,
Speaker 6: some of that X files glamour for themselves. So they
Speaker 6: use like similar typography of fonts and so on, or
Speaker 6: you know, use the files in their name and everything
Speaker 6: like that. But that again, that's that's archaic, that's already
Speaker 6: cycled out of the culture completely.
Speaker 3: I think you did mention some stuff about it. I
Speaker 3: think you mentioned it earlier too. When it comes like symbolism,
Speaker 3: you think that they use that a lot. Actually, hmmm,
Speaker 3: do you want to give like some I guess maybe
Speaker 3: some examples that you started maybe seeing it. They gave
Speaker 3: you that idea.
Speaker 6: Well, the symbolism that I was really been really focused on,
Speaker 6: and ironically it's sort of led to this whole realization
Speaker 6: about like the fact that that's why I called the
Speaker 6: book x f Ultro right, a little bit of a
Speaker 6: play on words there, because I could be wrong, maybe,
Speaker 6: you know, but I said, burying myself in this material
Speaker 6: for over thirty years. Now I think that I've made
Speaker 6: my case. But the symbolism that I was always really
Speaker 6: interested in was from the mystery cults, Greco Roman mystery cults.
Speaker 6: Now the whole thing with like the abducted sister and
Speaker 6: that's it's Orpheus and Eridity, and then when Scully is
Speaker 6: abducted they play that up and that the future film
Speaker 6: Fight the Future it's even more explicit. Like Carter was
Speaker 6: really focused on this symbolism from the mystery cults, and
Speaker 6: there would be episodes that Wou'd be playing like on
Speaker 6: Demeter and Persephony, so on one episode which is very
Speaker 6: hard to watch called Ubiliat, which is it? And like
Speaker 6: it even ends on a river, you know what I mean,
Speaker 6: like the river sticks. And so I've been writing about
Speaker 6: this for years, right, and then getting back to twenty sixteen. Right,
Speaker 6: there's an episode called Babylon, and it's literally like Mulder
Speaker 6: takes mushrooms, even though they have to hedge it for
Speaker 6: the for the censors, right, but he takes mushrooms and
Speaker 6: he descends into the underworld and he's on the River Styx, right,
Speaker 6: and you know, with the dams and everything like that.
Speaker 6: And I just remember watching it and thinking, God, Chris
Speaker 6: Carter wrote this from me, I really did. I really
Speaker 6: thought that, because like I've been talking about all this symbolism,
Speaker 6: you know, particularly from Greco Roman mystery cults. But it
Speaker 6: really began for me before I sort of realized that
Speaker 6: Greco mystery cults. There was a guy named David Flynn.
Speaker 6: I don't know if anybody's ever heard of him. He
Speaker 6: was a Christian conspiracy researcher from the nineties, passed away,
Speaker 6: I believe twenty twelve, which is kind of ironic because
Speaker 6: he'd written a lot about twenty twelve. But he had
Speaker 6: started this website in nineteen ninety nine now it's two thousand,
Speaker 6: called Having Moulder's Baby, and this whole thing was like
Speaker 6: this whole storyline, you know, Moulder's abducted and so on,
Speaker 6: and it's like Osiris and Isis and Horace and all
Speaker 6: that kind of thing. And he you can even I
Speaker 6: don't know if the website is still online, but you
Speaker 6: could probably find it on like internet wayback machine. But
Speaker 6: I was waiting for years for him to follow up
Speaker 6: on him, like okay, well you know, tell us more,
Speaker 6: let's hear it. And he never followed up on it.
Speaker 6: So I was like, all right, I'm going to do
Speaker 6: it myself. So I went back and watched this whole
Speaker 6: thing where like they're playing off the whole thing with
Speaker 6: that and Osiris and the birth the birth of Horace
Speaker 6: and so on, and the wilderness and everything like that,
Speaker 6: and they followed that arc like rather closely. I mean
Speaker 6: there's no there's no exact symbolism, like you don't see
Speaker 6: pyramids and all that kind of stuff or whatever, you know,
Speaker 6: eyes of raw something, you know, there's none of that.
Speaker 6: But they're following the mythological arc very closely. Now, this
Speaker 6: has been done for thousands of years. I mean this
Speaker 6: is as old as time, right, just rewriting myths for
Speaker 6: your new myths or whatever, for your religion or for
Speaker 6: your stories. I mean, this is as old as time.
Speaker 6: But I was really because I have like really serious OCD.
Speaker 6: I was just so hyper focused on the detail of it,
Speaker 6: and that again led me into this whole other you know,
Speaker 6: the Greco Roman mythology and so on and so forth.
Speaker 6: But they are there's also what they call easter eggs,
Speaker 6: so they would put they would insert a lot of
Speaker 6: symbols explicitly, and that even on the official website back
Speaker 6: when it was running, would let you know what they
Speaker 6: were and so on. But I think a lot of
Speaker 6: that was sort of misdirection. But it's it's all to
Speaker 6: sort of hyperactivate a part of our imaginations, I guess
Speaker 6: you would say, And that to me fed into this
Speaker 6: liminal power, you know, of this hyperstitious power. Even though
Speaker 6: it's not like you'll see where say, say like the
Speaker 6: Matrix films, where the symbolism is like bashing over the
Speaker 6: head with a hammer and saying, look at us, aren't
Speaker 6: we clever? Look at our symbols? WHOA right? And it's
Speaker 6: just it's just so corny and cheesy, and it doesn't
Speaker 6: really land. I think when you have to go searching
Speaker 6: for it, or when you're sort of soaking it in unconsciously,
Speaker 6: that's when I think it really starts to bed itself
Speaker 6: into your unconscious mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I like that. I like that a lot
Speaker 2: because I like the idea well as whatever. However old
Speaker 2: I was when that came out in nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 2: I care I remember, but I remember watching it for
Speaker 2: the first time with my mom and the Matrix, and
Speaker 2: it was one of those things for my teenage mind
Speaker 2: being bashed over the head, especially going back to the
Speaker 2: idea that you need to put yourself into imprint vulnerability
Speaker 2: for things to be able to take control and change that.
Speaker 2: I kind of needed that because you question things, and
Speaker 2: you have all the fantasy and the sci fi as
Speaker 2: a kid you're reading, and it doesn't really lead you
Speaker 2: into this thing about like what is the matrix? You know,
Speaker 2: it's like it's you know, it's like something of the
Speaker 2: mind and it's all around as blah blah blah. You
Speaker 2: kind of need that, but it's not like it landed.
Speaker 2: And that's something I'm continually trying to tell people is
Speaker 2: that you don't just take the red pill once and
Speaker 2: you're done. You need to continue embed these sign symbols,
Speaker 2: myths into yourself and then when you get into what
Speaker 2: you're just talking about, the deep mythologies of Osiris set
Speaker 2: battling Horace. Finally the battle the isis going out and
Speaker 2: doing the thing, and this going back through and you get,
Speaker 2: you know, from the Mythrick to Plato to the Orphik
Speaker 2: to now you're in the uma Elish and beyond. Like
Speaker 2: that's how you really get the fine pin details, and
Speaker 2: your consciousness truly changes and now you formulate a worldview,
Speaker 2: and then from that worldview you can I think personally,
Speaker 2: this is the theory Brandonly. Theory is that then now
Speaker 2: you can see magic in all things, because you're not
Speaker 2: just some automaton NPC agent Smith. At any time an
Speaker 2: ideology can imprint you. And then now you're just spewing
Speaker 2: nonsense of left or right. But now you're actually able
Speaker 2: to see the narratives because you can pick apart the
Speaker 2: deep underpinning of the myth, the magic and the meaning
Speaker 2: of things. And so I've just love what you're saying
Speaker 2: because I think as much as I'm all like, you're right,
Speaker 2: it was bashing over the head. And now look where
Speaker 2: they're at and they're trying to change the red pill
Speaker 2: into some training porn. But the idea is that you know,
Speaker 2: it's like it's like taking this terrible, like this beautiful thing.
Speaker 2: Even I like all three. I think I've heard you
Speaker 2: say you don't really like another two. I don't know,
Speaker 2: you can well listen. I was a huge William Gibson fan, yeah, okay.
Speaker 6: Back in the nineties and what they call the what
Speaker 6: is it, the Sprawl trilogy, Neuromancer, Conciero and amazing, amazing,
Speaker 6: but also the Burning Chrome collection. So it's the the
Speaker 6: absolute plagiarism of The Matrix is really when I watched it,
Speaker 6: I was just okay, I recognize that from this and
Speaker 6: recognized from that, and they even have you know, Kenna
Speaker 6: Reeves who was in Johnny Knaemonic, which is a terrible
Speaker 6: movie but still pretty obvious, you know, hit you on
Speaker 6: the head with that. But I was also I'm still
Speaker 6: a very big fan of Dark City, which came on
Speaker 6: a year before and Matrix sort of I don't know
Speaker 6: how it happened. It might have just been coincidental, but
Speaker 6: the Matrix ends up recycling a lot of the ideas
Speaker 6: from Dark City, which I think is a vastly superior film.
Speaker 6: But I picked up on all the you know, the
Speaker 6: queer theory stuff in the in the first Matrix because really, yeah,
Speaker 6: I thought it was pretty obvious. I know, I did.
Speaker 6: I thought it was pretty blatant even then. And you
Speaker 6: know when that I didn't.
Speaker 2: Even know what to put that mint when I was
Speaker 2: that age. So there's that in the middle.
Speaker 6: Of nowhere, you know. And I was working in New
Speaker 6: York and so on for a number of years and
Speaker 6: reading the Village Voice and New York presence, so you know,
Speaker 6: it's like I was sort of with that whole mind set.
Speaker 6: So I thought it was you know, and and what's
Speaker 6: her name, Carrie Lee? What's that actress's name, the one
Speaker 6: who played Trinity, Oh, you know, who's also in the
Speaker 6: the only, the only Christopher Nolan film that I really like, Amento. Yeah,
Speaker 6: Which it's funny if you watch Memento, it's kind of
Speaker 6: like the Matrix in reverse, because the Matrix is all
Speaker 6: about like im like remembering, you know, It's it's about
Speaker 6: waking up and remembering, and Memento is about like forgetting
Speaker 6: and falling asleep. Think about that. Watch those two films together.
Speaker 6: You'll see, in some very strange way, they're they're like
Speaker 6: mirror images of each other. I don't know if that's intentional.
Speaker 6: But but she has you know, she has sort of
Speaker 6: like a very butch kind of presentation and and but
Speaker 6: that but that all comes from Sally Shears in the
Speaker 6: William Gibson Okay, so and look, William Gibson's just completely
Speaker 6: I mean he's completely lost his mind. Over the past
Speaker 6: ten years twenty years or so, he hasn't written anything.
Speaker 6: He hasn't written anything since. I think the last thing
Speaker 6: I enjoyed by him was All Tomorrow's Parties. I read
Speaker 6: that other trilogy did with like Spook Country and the
Speaker 6: rest of it, and I thought it was just insanely
Speaker 6: boring anyway, But that's that kind of ruined the matrix
Speaker 6: for me because I was just I was too well
Speaker 6: versed in all the material that they were just completely plagiarizing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then and then Grant Morrison is the Invisibles,
Speaker 2: Grand Morrison will always stayed.
Speaker 6: Yeah, No, I never, I don't never saw that. I
Speaker 6: don't see that. I think that's just Grant Morrison just
Speaker 6: trying to inject himself into a popular brain.
Speaker 2: And I love the Invisibles. So I am an Invisible
Speaker 2: stand because it was part of my awakening with Promethea
Speaker 2: Allen Moore Grant Morrison side by side, So that was it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, but that.
Speaker 8: Is interesting, sorry, Chris, But it is interesting about Grant
Speaker 8: Morris and inserting himself into popular culture because that is
Speaker 8: like the most definitive example of hyperstition itself, by like
Speaker 8: narrating yourself to be involved in something that you weren't
Speaker 8: even necessarily part of that you weren't necessarily even maybe
Speaker 8: he wasn't even famous around for that. So it is
Speaker 8: interesting to me that he's that. Because he said it,
Speaker 8: people associate it with him, and then that is hypercition
Speaker 8: creating your own great marketing.
Speaker 2: That is great marketing.
Speaker 6: Well, I'll tell you I have a bit of a
Speaker 6: phone to pick with Grant Morrison because I had written
Speaker 6: Our Gods Were Spandex back in two thousand, well, it
Speaker 6: was published in two thousand and seven, I wrote in
Speaker 6: two thousand and five. But and then he did that
Speaker 6: book Super Gods, Yeah, where he was basically you know,
Speaker 6: poaching on my land like that. So I was, but
Speaker 6: I had written I had written there was this. So
Speaker 6: I was an associate editor on this magazine called Comic
Speaker 6: Artist back in the day, and I had written this
Speaker 6: editorial called show me the magic, which had to do
Speaker 6: with you know, Grant Morrison and Alan Moore, because at
Speaker 6: that point in time, Omethea had just become what I
Speaker 6: call theosophical summer camp, where it just become you know,
Speaker 6: it's it wasn't a story anymore. It was just like, oh,
Speaker 6: let's walk around through you know, the tarot and and
Speaker 6: all the rest of it.
Speaker 2: Yes, until the last volume, Chris, the last volume showed
Speaker 2: the eminetizing of the ace caton throughout.
Speaker 6: Is true, but by then, but then we lost me.
Speaker 6: I just was like, I'm done, I'm done, and blame me.
Speaker 6: I love Alan Moore. I think I think his master work,
Speaker 6: his true master work is Providence.
Speaker 2: Well, Providence was amazing for everyone who doesn't know, it's
Speaker 2: HP Lovecraftthulian Nicromnicon. It's some.
Speaker 6: Providence was very very highly recommended.
Speaker 2: But it also will make you sick if you watch it.
Speaker 2: I just want everybody to know. And if you don't
Speaker 2: got a if you got a week something, you might
Speaker 2: not want to read it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah that's true too. But but so the Invisibles,
Speaker 6: what is that series even about? Though? You know, I
Speaker 6: mean it's like the Love the Matrix. I hate it.
Speaker 6: It has a central conceit. Right, Okay, we're in the matrix.
Speaker 6: We've got to get out of the matrix, but then
Speaker 6: we want to get back into the matrix outside the matrix. Thus, right,
Speaker 6: that's kind of the moral of the story. I mean, right,
Speaker 6: The Invisibles is basically about whatever book Brant Morrison was
Speaker 6: reading at the time. But one thing I did want
Speaker 6: to bring up, and just before I lose my train
Speaker 6: of thought on this with the X Files, what really
Speaker 6: I first started to notice was all the mushrooms and
Speaker 6: LSD and hallucinogens and iboga and so on in the storylines.
Speaker 6: And the thing that I began to notice is that
Speaker 6: they would either put either explicit or very thinly veiled
Speaker 6: simple about mushrooms, LSD and all the rest of it
Speaker 6: in this what they call the mythology, right the stories
Speaker 6: about the alien colonization, or they would have the episode
Speaker 6: before or after the stories about alien colonization have an
Speaker 6: explicit context with like I said, I boga, mushrooms and
Speaker 6: so on and so forth. And then they even did
Speaker 6: this one episode about iboga where they explicitly call out
Speaker 6: MK ultra, right, But they also did another another one,
Speaker 6: another episode with it's eybotenic acid. I believe that's the
Speaker 6: the active ingredient in I boga, right, but I think yeah,
Speaker 6: And in the episode it's it's mushrooms. So I'm not
Speaker 6: exactly sure what the context is there, but I started
Speaker 6: to just go back and realize that the whole all
Speaker 6: the black oil is a hallucinogen mind control basically trope
Speaker 6: if you look at it in the context of the
Speaker 6: stories and all the rest of it, you know, I
Speaker 6: mean the aliens themselves, the aliens themselves are mushrooms. Now
Speaker 6: that sounds like, oh my god, what is he talking about?
Speaker 2: McKenna.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, if you again read the book, I'll explain
Speaker 6: to you exactly why I believe that that it is. Now.
Speaker 6: Chris Carter was a surfer in the seventies. Need I
Speaker 6: say more? I mean, what else do you need to say?
Speaker 6: And he's even mentioned that, you know, there were certain
Speaker 6: he called them, certain sacraments that needed to be observed,
Speaker 6: and also in between I think it was the second
Speaker 6: and third season, he had gone to Sedona to attend
Speaker 6: a Peyoti ritual, which was then also written directly into
Speaker 6: the storyline. And he's never been shy about you know,
Speaker 6: that he based his stories on this experience he had
Speaker 6: at this Navajo Peyoti ritual. So uh, there you go.
Speaker 6: So but it all ties in, and you know, we
Speaker 6: were talking about the mystery cults that's all based in hallucinogens.
Speaker 6: You know, all the Isis and Osire's stuff is all
Speaker 6: plucinogenic symbolism. We're seeing this in the news now that
Speaker 6: the Elsinian mysteries of Demeter and Persephone, they the the kaikon,
Speaker 6: as it's called, was was actually a derivative of l
Speaker 6: s A, which is a precursor to LSD. Yeah, so,
Speaker 6: I mean that's.
Speaker 2: Right. What's that Road to eleusis? Watson's book is a
Speaker 2: great example of how that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. Carter never mentioned
Speaker 6: that book, per se. I've never seen him cite that
Speaker 6: book or cite Wasson's work. But then again, I mean
Speaker 6: does he even have to because that stuff has been
Speaker 6: so embedded into the culture.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 6: Now, something you really have to be careful with. You know.
Speaker 6: I am very much against the recreational use or the
Speaker 6: irresponsible use of hallucinogens and so on and so forth,
Speaker 6: and I'm very concerned about what I call MKL to
Speaker 6: three point zero, where like when you go to the
Speaker 6: emergency room, instead of giving you painkillers, they give you ketemine.
Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy? Isn't that crazy? There's ketamine centers all
Speaker 2: over the place.
Speaker 6: Now, Yeah, that's and now they and now there's like
Speaker 6: a new long acting d MT.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Brian Johnson and his whole nonsense that he's pushing
Speaker 2: for immortality and the nonsense that he does.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, listen, a lot of people don't want
Speaker 6: to hear, but it's like that's throughout history, that's how
Speaker 6: you encounter angels and devils, angels and demons, right, is
Speaker 6: that's the medium, these various pharmaceutical pharmacratic leucinogenic. So you
Speaker 6: have to be really careful and if you I've studied
Speaker 6: the mystery cults, right, and the mystery cults were most
Speaker 6: of them. I mean, there were the Bakans and the
Speaker 6: you know, the Dionysus cult, which were just completely insane
Speaker 6: and completely off the wall. But like you know, samul
Speaker 6: Thra Soleusis, I mean, they were very very strict. You
Speaker 6: would have to fast and you have to study because
Speaker 6: what it was really about was preparing you, you know,
Speaker 6: to meet the gods and not have a bad experience.
Speaker 6: Well you end up meeting you know, the gods or
Speaker 6: the angels, not the demons, right, And that's really what
Speaker 6: it was all about. It was about learning to you know,
Speaker 6: to focus your mind to fast, to purify yourself so
Speaker 6: you could enter into this realm. Now that's something you
Speaker 6: have to be very careful about because we're seeing it
Speaker 6: all the time, and we're seeing it like in this
Speaker 6: supercharged THHC. That's that's everywhere. Now you know where you
Speaker 6: get these? You go to the gas station and get these,
Speaker 6: you know, Delta nine cubes of a lot of three
Speaker 6: thousand milligrams per gummy. Oh yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I mean that people are tripping balls because it changes
Speaker 2: into a psychedelic through your liver. But most people don't
Speaker 2: know that that it becomes psychedelic compound.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, full disclosure, I do. I do take
Speaker 6: very small amounts of Delta eights at night because I
Speaker 6: have a sleep disorder. Guilty, I mean full disclosure, have
Speaker 6: but I have, I mean I do have some Well
Speaker 6: it's like Delta nine, Delta zero or Delta O whatever
Speaker 6: THCO which actually I kind of liked even though if
Speaker 6: you took a little too much of that, you'd be
Speaker 6: in real trouble. But they took it off the market.
Speaker 6: But anyhow, but you know that is that's that's the venue. Yeah.
Speaker 6: And you know, people when I bring this up, there
Speaker 6: are a lot of people who's like, religion is the
Speaker 6: hallucinogen itself. And I'm like, no, you gotta be careful,
Speaker 6: you know. I mean, people have been telling you for
Speaker 6: thousands of years that this isn't a joke. This isn't
Speaker 6: a game, you know, this isn't recreation. This is really serious.
Speaker 6: This is where you read, you meet real entities, you know,
Speaker 6: and real entities get enter into our world through you
Speaker 6: and these chemicals.
Speaker 2: And attach themselves to you.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, and that's you know, and I'm just seeing
Speaker 6: seeing it more and more. I mean. One thing I
Speaker 6: will tell you is that The X Files was originally
Speaker 6: canceled after the ninth season, but there were the plans
Speaker 6: to end the whole alien thing in the ninth season
Speaker 6: and then in the tenth season the stories would focus
Speaker 6: around evil as like a contagion. You know. It was
Speaker 6: basically about possession, entity possession, and they did a few
Speaker 6: episodes like that throughout the series. But I'm just seeing
Speaker 6: it more and more, you know, I'm seeing people behaving.
Speaker 6: Did you see that video that woman who was stabbing
Speaker 6: that little kid in the parking lot and you just
Speaker 6: saw the look on her face and just like that
Speaker 6: is lot out possession. That woman was possessed. And you
Speaker 6: just see this on an increasing basis. In gosh, do
Speaker 6: you think and there's anything to do with like, you know,
Speaker 6: all these drugs being mainstreamed and fed to people who
Speaker 6: are ready on the edge, already on the borderline. So again,
Speaker 6: I get a lot of criticism because people think I'm
Speaker 6: just being puritanical. I'm not being cured.
Speaker 3: No, I actually think you're totally nawing something. Man. I
Speaker 3: actually think there's a lot of people that are out
Speaker 3: there strategically pushing mushrooms in certain drugs for a reason
Speaker 3: that's ne for a been.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, it's now, it's not. And that's not to
Speaker 6: say that there isn't potential benefits.
Speaker 3: There is, yes, I agree, room so on and so forth.
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm not saying that, but nuance gets lost
Speaker 6: very quickly. Unfortunately.
Speaker 3: Spiritualism, why the partying is it could be a fine
Speaker 3: line sometimes too.
Speaker 2: Why through the yoga struct why and even magic, you
Speaker 2: train to make sure your moral structures, your ethical structures,
Speaker 2: your body posture, you're breathing. Because anxiety, paranoia are the
Speaker 2: demons that that we're talking about, Yes, yes, sneaking over
Speaker 2: and then most of.
Speaker 6: The anxiety, anxiety and paranoia and guilt are the catalysts.
Speaker 6: Yes for that for those negative influences, I think I agree.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And then also like from like a Buddhist perspective, you know,
Speaker 5: when we look at even like the news, like we
Speaker 5: think people are going crazy, it's because they're literally inviting
Speaker 5: in these demons, because in order for a demon to
Speaker 5: enter into your body, you have to believe in the energy.
Speaker 4: Is that it is attracted to.
Speaker 5: Right, So drugs maybe breaks people out of their emotional stability.
Speaker 5: But that's why I think like religion and spirituality and
Speaker 5: like mebeing in a Buddhist is such important thing to
Speaker 5: me because it teaches you about emptiness of phenomena. Is
Speaker 5: like we are all vessels, whether you want to believe
Speaker 5: it or not. You are a vessel for something, and
Speaker 5: it's better to be a vessel for like the highest power.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 5: So I think there's a mixture of like the drugs,
Speaker 5: but also like the news has been like hyped up,
Speaker 5: and then we have social media, which is like doubling
Speaker 5: down on that like crazy reality that people are buying into,
Speaker 5: and then just like yeah, going out and doing crazy
Speaker 5: shit because they've invited in this energy by not having stability.
Speaker 4: So I think it is a mixture of like the
Speaker 4: drugs and the everything.
Speaker 6: But yeah, yeah, it's an assault. I think it's a
Speaker 6: coordinating assault on a wide scale. Now, one thing that
Speaker 6: I've talked about I don't know if I talked about
Speaker 6: in the book, but when I was a kid, I
Speaker 6: would get really really high fevers and I would hallucinate.
Speaker 6: And I found out that high fever were tripped the
Speaker 6: DMT circuit in your brain. So I had some pretty
Speaker 6: pretty vivid and extreme haint hallucinations. And when I got
Speaker 6: a little older and started experimenting quote unquote, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 6: I know this territory very well. You know, I know
Speaker 6: it was completely familiar to me. It was people don't
Speaker 6: believe me when I say that, but you know, what
Speaker 6: am I going to do?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I believe when I was younger, when I was a child,
Speaker 3: I ended up getting this fucking weird shit. I never
Speaker 3: heard of it before. It's like a crazy version of
Speaker 3: chicken pox basically, Katsaki and I ended up with like
Speaker 3: one hundred and three fever. I was fucking hallucinating. My
Speaker 3: mom took me to the fucking doctors and she's like,
Speaker 3: you know, fucking kids like asking me shit, that's like there,
Speaker 3: you know, And there was because of the fevers. They
Speaker 3: were saying, they're like, Joe, his fever is so high,
Speaker 3: this can actually happen. And I do what I do
Speaker 3: see a correlation of what you're saying. Once he took
Speaker 3: other things, it was like, this doesn't seem like I
Speaker 3: see a little bit of a correlation.
Speaker 6: Yeah, did you ever see the movie Jacob's.
Speaker 3: Ladder parts of it? I've never seen the whole thing.
Speaker 6: Okay, I've watched that movie like over one hundred times.
Speaker 6: Don't don't ask me what that says about me, But
Speaker 6: there is there is a whole sequence in there. I mean.
Speaker 6: So that is also an MKL for a narrative explicitly
Speaker 6: spelled out in the story, but it manifests itself where
Speaker 6: you know, the Tim Robbins Jacob's Ladder character gets you
Speaker 6: know what you're talking about a viral infection, and he
Speaker 6: gets like a super high fever, which you know I
Speaker 6: would get like one hundred and five hundred and six
Speaker 6: all the time. And he and he and that starts
Speaker 6: playing into this whole a blow where he's seeing you know,
Speaker 6: demons and so on everywhere it goes that. I can't
Speaker 6: recommend the film enough. It's not an easy watch. It's
Speaker 6: gruesomely violence in some some places. But it was based
Speaker 6: on was it the Bardo? The bar help me out here?
Speaker 6: Kaiva's and the Tibetan book are the dead? It's what
Speaker 6: is it? The barto a dole?
Speaker 2: The barto photos are the realms that you go into
Speaker 2: when you're when you die, and you train yourself through
Speaker 2: the Tibetan Buddhist practices of the bone tradition to enter
Speaker 2: into these different phases. So if you have that tradition,
Speaker 2: if you actually go through and follow the light, you'll
Speaker 2: end them this like red space, which actually is a
Speaker 2: bad space.
Speaker 8: But yeah, well it can be can be branded, not always,
Speaker 8: not always, but yeah, we enter into the you know,
Speaker 8: you enter into the bardo, you see the existence, appearance
Speaker 8: of the emptiness. As Kaiva said of phenomena, and you
Speaker 8: have to recognize it for what it really is, which
Speaker 8: is of course empty, but that's not how it appears
Speaker 8: to you.
Speaker 1: So the the key, the sort of the.
Speaker 8: Key to traversing the mahasmashana or the carnal ground of
Speaker 8: ultimate reality is recognizing that emptiness is the quote unquote
Speaker 8: primordial truth, and that everything that arises before you is
Speaker 8: just like the kind of.
Speaker 1: The aggregates of your own mind.
Speaker 6: Mm hmm. Well, the film also explicitly ties that in
Speaker 6: too medieval Christian mysticism concepts of purgatory, and it's actually right.
Speaker 6: There's actually a scene, you know, we're spelled like purgatory
Speaker 6: is the demons are really angels who are tearing away
Speaker 6: your attachments to to life, right, I mean, I'm that
Speaker 6: sounds very Buddhist to me as well, right, like you're
Speaker 6: you know, yeah, attachments, attachment.
Speaker 8: And so there is a similarity, Chris like to the
Speaker 8: kind of Catholic like the more Catholic idea is of
Speaker 8: a kind of interstitial realm, like even Kaivo was saying before,
Speaker 8: like of Neptune the smoky place. This makes complete sense
Speaker 8: in the tontric perspective or contract astrological perspective, because that
Speaker 8: is kind of like the when the the body is
Speaker 8: completely made dissolute, that would be kind of that Katuvian
Speaker 8: or Neptune. And depending on your framing of like the
Speaker 8: outer three planets and their relationship with the Vita castrology,
Speaker 8: but yeah, I think it's the same. It's like you're
Speaker 8: in this kind of interstitial zone. It's not it's not
Speaker 8: it's not it's not destruction and it's not creation. It's
Speaker 8: kind of it's in between.
Speaker 6: Well, when I think of Neptune too, I also think
Speaker 6: a proteus and you know, the whole idea of like
Speaker 6: Protea in the original, and it's the abyss and the waters,
Speaker 6: but it's also shape shifting and at the same time
Speaker 6: it's also prophetic. Are you guys familiar with the god.
Speaker 2: Old Man of the Sea, right, Homer?
Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah, the Old Man is exactly the Old Man
Speaker 6: of the Sea. So but there is that whole idea
Speaker 6: of deception sort of almost being a mask for revelation. Yeah,
Speaker 6: do you understand what I'm saying. And that's something that
Speaker 6: you see throughout the X Files, ironically, and the other
Speaker 6: thing I should mention too is that him Robbins is
Speaker 6: the star of Jacob Sladder and the last person you
Speaker 6: see on screen in any X Files episode, which is
Speaker 6: the eleventh season last episode, is his son, Miles Robins,
Speaker 6: who plays Mulder and Scully's son, who's and he rises
Speaker 6: up out of the waters, and he he is the
Speaker 6: new proteus because he's a shape shifter as well, but
Speaker 6: he's also psychic, so but he's all he's prophetic, and
Speaker 6: I don't know, I mean, I wonder how much of
Speaker 6: that ties into a cargo was saying about the whole
Speaker 6: influence of Neptune on the pilot episode. Some Well, I
Speaker 6: guess at that point it was twenty three years earlier, right,
Speaker 6: that's too Yeah, I mean that seems like so Uranus
Speaker 6: is the sky.
Speaker 4: Right, and it breaks open things.
Speaker 5: So it's like as Uranus is like breaking open Saturn's
Speaker 5: world of like stability. Yeah, Like Neptune's planting these like
Speaker 5: visions and ideas.
Speaker 6: So it all plays in. I mean, Chris Carter again
Speaker 6: was well versed in ancient mythology, and there are explicit
Speaker 6: references to that, and he did write an episode about astrology,
Speaker 6: so I'm kind of wondering if he was kind of
Speaker 6: maybe aware that. But one thing that Dean Haglin who
Speaker 6: plays one of the Lone Gunman. If you guys want
Speaker 6: to talk about that Lone Gunman episode, it said that
Speaker 6: the CIA would have fortune tellows and astrologers at Hollywood
Speaker 6: parties back in the early nineties, and one of one
Speaker 6: of them, you know, it's said to Chris Carter when
Speaker 6: the show was being developed, you know this is going
Speaker 6: to be you know, it's going to be a huge success,
Speaker 6: and all the rest of it kind of makes you
Speaker 6: wonder though, right, Well, one thing I try to impart
Speaker 6: to people because there's this whole and this whole comes
Speaker 6: from that whole boomer conspiracy world. Oh it's all distraction
Speaker 6: or whatever. It's like, No, there, these people really are
Speaker 6: true believers. I think there is I think a grave
Speaker 6: misconception and it's one of the things I write about,
Speaker 6: you know, Like I mentioned my first novel, He Will
Speaker 6: Live Up in the Sky, is that I really wanted
Speaker 6: to impart to people. The people who get involved than
Speaker 6: these kind of programs and stuff when it deals with
Speaker 6: the paranormal and so on and so forth, are true believers.
Speaker 6: And I think that's become blatantly obvious now with this
Speaker 6: whole UFO disclosure run around, you know, I think, you know,
Speaker 6: it's it's fairly obvious that, you know, people like Jim
Speaker 6: semi Van and what's his name, Grush, you know, and
Speaker 6: all these people who come out of the quote unquote
Speaker 6: intelligence community, they really are true believers. You know. I
Speaker 6: don't think they're play acting. The more disturbing truth to
Speaker 6: me is that they really do believe all this stuff
Speaker 6: lock stock and barrel, you know, all this UFO lore
Speaker 6: that has been ceded into the culture by the military
Speaker 6: since the nineteen forties, and specifically the Navy, you know,
Speaker 6: talk about Neptune and Proteus, right, and that whole influence
Speaker 6: is that group Nightcap, which is explicitly cited in the
Speaker 6: next Files episode the Executive Committee. We're all Navy and
Speaker 6: Marine flag officers, you know, which means like you know, commanders, commodores, admirals,
Speaker 6: generals and so on and so forth. I think there
Speaker 6: is a misconception that these people aren't true believers, and
Speaker 6: I think that is a very very dangerous belief.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that goes back to you talking about like
Speaker 2: facing our delusions like the Proteus and the Neptune. You're
Speaker 2: in this type of things. Is that when we come
Speaker 2: up against our delusions, which is the same as like
Speaker 2: Buddha coming in under the body tree, coming up against
Speaker 2: Mara and all the illusions of reality of the illusions.
Speaker 2: Like I think it's sometimes we think when we talk
Speaker 2: about illusions of reality, it's always we always think external
Speaker 2: when we should actually be thinking of these illusions. Are
Speaker 2: these internal aspects of how we use our perception to
Speaker 2: understand external events, And so it's such a fascinating thing.
Speaker 2: Jesus did it when he was, you know, confronted with
Speaker 2: Satan on the mount and he had to go through
Speaker 2: the Three trials. Buddha goes through the three trials. I
Speaker 2: feel like same thing we do when we're going up
Speaker 2: against our own delusions. When we take high dosages of entheogens,
Speaker 2: you go through that first ego death and you're confronted
Speaker 2: with the great you know, Guardian at the threshold. And
Speaker 2: I think that very much relates to alien disclosure. What
Speaker 2: the X files was constantly trying to ask us about
Speaker 2: our own paranoid Schitzo understanding about how these things are
Speaker 2: happening in the world, that we are deluded to think
Speaker 2: many things and if we can calm those delusions and
Speaker 2: try to center ourselves through you know, practice of sorts
Speaker 2: or understanding the synchro mystic events you know, of the
Speaker 2: external internal world as they happen. It's just funny how
Speaker 2: these things continue to spiral out and in together.
Speaker 6: Well, I do use synchronicity as my yardstick. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: I'm just yeah, thank you. You know, just a very
Speaker 6: heightened awareness of deception and lies and misdirection and so on.
Speaker 6: But when things break, that veil between the imaginal and
Speaker 6: the temporal that is hard to manufacture. Okay, you can
Speaker 6: sort of create a counterfeit of it, which happens all
Speaker 6: the time. But I think that if you're rigorous in
Speaker 6: your approach to synchronisticism, it becomes like a great you
Speaker 6: know bs to so to speak.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we spend most of our and this is
Speaker 2: something that needs to be understood by the audience and
Speaker 2: many people around, is that the differentiation between understanding the
Speaker 2: idea that materiality created consciousness instead of how our physical
Speaker 2: bodies are tuning forks for consciousness and then we switch
Speaker 2: our understanding. It's kind of like a Kantean Compernican revolution
Speaker 2: is where it's like it seems to me that the
Speaker 2: ideal realm was first created and why we speak about
Speaker 2: cabbala and missicism magic and then everything stems forth into materiality.
Speaker 2: And I think about it when we were talking, is
Speaker 2: like we spend most of our days in the ideal
Speaker 2: or in the idea spheres, in the imaginal realms. In
Speaker 2: the imagination, we sleep more than we do anything else.
Speaker 2: And even when we're walking in the world, in the
Speaker 2: material world, we're sleepwalking through our reality. And so to
Speaker 2: think that materiality is more real than the idea spheres
Speaker 2: is kind of a deluded take, because of we are
Speaker 2: within the ideal realms at all times. And then to
Speaker 2: even say that I am contradicting myself because I don't.
Speaker 2: I think cartesianism is one of the worst things to
Speaker 2: happen to us. And so the idea is that we
Speaker 2: need to merge these two things. And it's really hard
Speaker 2: because our language, which is magic. Right, even saying language
Speaker 2: is magic is getting us away from understanding that all
Speaker 2: language is metaphor, and so we can understand the metaphors
Speaker 2: of our own understanding. Is that then we're understanding something.
Speaker 2: We're we're merging the body mind back together. And I
Speaker 2: think that's really important to understand then when disclosure happens,
Speaker 2: to not believe it, doesn't say it's not happening, but
Speaker 2: to understand that if we read Jacques Villet, Carl Jung
Speaker 2: and the ancients and the modern the and the mythologies
Speaker 2: of our past and present, that they're trying to tell
Speaker 2: us much of the same thing all the time, is
Speaker 2: that this is a remembering and you're waking up to
Speaker 2: something and to stop sleep walking through through your reality.
Speaker 6: So it's well.
Speaker 7: On that note, like you guys are talking about childhood
Speaker 7: fevers and talking about these psychedelic experiences like these are
Speaker 7: all playing into the idea of the shamanic right, and
Speaker 7: even the show is sort of like walking you through
Speaker 7: the dismembering of certain ideas that maybe the boomer generation
Speaker 7: had about the government and how they're all loving and
Speaker 7: all good and all caring, and so where does that
Speaker 7: integration start and stop As a societal level, You know,
Speaker 7: we're sort of coming up to the point where all
Speaker 7: of these late nineties films of living in this sort
Speaker 7: of unreal world are now coming to fruition, right, So
Speaker 7: you know, you've got the Matrix movies about this unreal matrix,
Speaker 7: you've got Dark City, all of these other things are
Speaker 7: talking about the unreal sort of taking precedent over the
Speaker 7: reel and trying to find your way out through this maze.
Speaker 7: So at what point are we going to reach that
Speaker 7: sort of breaking point? Is it going to be a
Speaker 7: positive or a negative thing? Because we have most.
Speaker 6: People aren't I mean, and increasingly I mean people are
Speaker 6: becoming semi sentient on a societal scale. I don't know
Speaker 6: if you guys follow well, you know, we've had thousands
Speaker 6: of teachers quit teaching because this what they called Generation Alpha,
Speaker 6: are unedgucable and they have no attention spans, they have
Speaker 6: no conceptual they have no inner dialogue real. So I
Speaker 6: think that it's going to be I don't want to say,
Speaker 6: like a Dawn of the Dead situation, you know, where
Speaker 6: we're dealing with masses of zombies and just a few
Speaker 6: sentient people. I hope we know we're not chased into
Speaker 6: extinction because it will all fall apart. Then I think
Speaker 6: it's it's up to the individual. It's up to each
Speaker 6: individual to tend to their own enlightened. You can't rely
Speaker 6: on systems anymore, you know, particularly now because all institutions
Speaker 6: have been infiltrated, subverted and degraded. Really, I mean all
Speaker 6: our education system, our religious system, government industry across the board, right, media,
Speaker 6: it's all been degraded, it's all been co opted. So
Speaker 6: we can't we're not going to get our power from that,
Speaker 6: you know, you have to find it somewhere else. And
Speaker 6: discussions like this I think are a really important part
Speaker 6: of that. But just understand that you're almost sort of
Speaker 6: like putting a target on your forehead because we're dealing
Speaker 6: with a growing mass of sleepwalkers who don't want to
Speaker 6: be awakened, who don't even know there is an awakened state,
Speaker 6: right They're they're totally focused on the scrolling. They can't
Speaker 6: even focus on a half an hour television program anymore.
Speaker 6: Attention spans have been just completely shattered on a majority,
Speaker 6: I think of the population. So you have to take
Speaker 6: you have to take responsibility for yourself and I think
Speaker 6: networking and coalescing and so on, while avoiding creating a
Speaker 6: new set of institutions, right because whenever you create a
Speaker 6: set of institutions, those institutions need to be maintained, all right,
Speaker 6: And the people who are going to come to you
Speaker 6: to maintain those institutions are going to want to co
Speaker 6: opt them and you know, bring them into this clive
Speaker 6: mind that we're seeing built, okay, on an increasing basis.
Speaker 6: So it's a it's a weird kind of dance right
Speaker 6: where you need to. You can't do it alone, you
Speaker 6: can't work in isolation. But I do think that any
Speaker 6: time a structure or a system is built, it will
Speaker 6: be either co opted from within or destroyed from without.
Speaker 6: I really honestly believe that.
Speaker 2: No, I completely agree, and it makes me think of
Speaker 2: and for me all the time. I'm always going back
Speaker 2: to it. But Plato's cave has been such a big
Speaker 2: idea from my own life and understanding is that once
Speaker 2: you get out of the cave, right, it's just this
Speaker 2: very similar to the matrix. You waking up from the matrix,
Speaker 2: You go out there, you witness the forms, you do,
Speaker 2: go back into the cave. And what Plato says is
Speaker 2: that when you go back into the cave, you will
Speaker 2: be mocked by those still shackled to the wall, and
Speaker 2: if upsetting them enough, you will be killed. And I
Speaker 2: think that's really important. Knowing that I'm not saying people
Speaker 2: are going to be physically killed here, but it's happening.
Speaker 2: But the idea that further goes is that you're not
Speaker 2: bringing the light back with you as you go in.
Speaker 2: You're not bringing the forms back in there as you
Speaker 2: go in. You are going in there to kind of
Speaker 2: do the thing. Because the cave is this institutionalized world,
Speaker 2: the bureaucratic world. It is this that even that we're
Speaker 2: doing right now. We're speaking and then we speak in
Speaker 2: dialogue and dialectic and you know, really, to me, you know,
Speaker 2: all of Plato's work is what in him, what he's
Speaker 2: trying to do is he's discussing the orphic mystery traditions,
Speaker 2: the Pythagorea and mystery traditions and all the mystery traditions
Speaker 2: that he was a part of at that time frame.
Speaker 2: And upon doing so, he's teaching people how to philosophize.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm trying That's why for me and
Speaker 2: my work, I'm like, let's learn kind of Like what
Speaker 2: you're doing, Chris is like you're like there's this synchronistic
Speaker 2: events going on. You're reframing people's understanding how to make
Speaker 2: the connections between as you're always talking about the sirens
Speaker 2: and the Sirens Call and these things in our music.
Speaker 2: Two then the X files and our modern myths of today.
Speaker 2: And when you can see those from a new perspective
Speaker 2: instead of just recreationizing them, but seeing them as this
Speaker 2: grander cyclical pattern, then others can take up their own stand,
Speaker 2: in their own agency in the world and start asking
Speaker 2: questions and then have the dialogue, because I think that's
Speaker 2: something that we need to all get back to, which again,
Speaker 2: like you said, and I agree, panels like this and
Speaker 2: all the work that you know, Greg Carlwood and all
Speaker 2: these different people are doing out in the world is
Speaker 2: really important because without this, all people are getting is
Speaker 2: the modern mainstream media pandering back and forth between that
Speaker 2: Hegelian dialectic because they don't want to teach people how
Speaker 2: to think for themselves.
Speaker 6: It's it's worse than that, thoughn't it. I'm almost I'm
Speaker 6: almost nostalgic for that a Gaelian dialectic. Excuse me just
Speaker 6: a moment. Yeah, what it is now is just cacophony.
Speaker 6: And it's a cacophony of completely untutored minds. Okay, I mean,
Speaker 6: just go on any social media platform and but there's
Speaker 6: also pseudo enlightenment and and all the rest of it.
Speaker 6: And I think it just numbs people. It's it's numbing.
Speaker 6: I mean I find it numbing sometimes. So like I said,
Speaker 6: I mean, you can't. You can't take responsibility for somebody
Speaker 6: else's enlightenment. You know, you can't. You can lead a
Speaker 6: horse to water, but you can't and make them drink right,
Speaker 6: or you can't make them think right.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: But I think there are you know, a number of
Speaker 6: people out there who you can reach and like I said,
Speaker 6: you can coalesce with while avoiding becoming an institution yourself,
Speaker 6: or building building just another wall, building, just another prison,
Speaker 6: which I again, I believe all institutions eventually become. And
Speaker 6: it's it's the nature of the beasts, because you know,
Speaker 6: somebody has to sweep the floors, and somebody has to
Speaker 6: stuff the envelopes, and you know, some many somebody has
Speaker 6: to do the spreadsheets and everything. And the people who
Speaker 6: do that, quite often are people who are basically broken
Speaker 6: inside and want to use your structure, your institution, whatever
Speaker 6: you've built, to subvert it to their weird, suicidal, destructive,
Speaker 6: apocalyptic ends. And I realize that sounds a bit pessimistic
Speaker 6: in some ways, but hopefully we can learn or we
Speaker 6: can develop technologies where these old institutional superstructures can become obsolete.
Speaker 5: Okay, it's interesting about that is the Uranus and Taurus
Speaker 5: is now ending, So since twenty eighteen, Uranus and Taurus
Speaker 5: is breaking down tradition, so like since twenty eighteen, you
Speaker 5: can reflect on it. Right, it's like twenty eighteen till now,
Speaker 5: like we've seen so much as like opening up of
Speaker 5: like you know, institutions that we used to trust, news stations,
Speaker 5: all these things, and now Urinus is moving into Gemini.
Speaker 5: So it is this time of like changing how we
Speaker 5: exchange information, changing how we learn things, breakthroughs in science
Speaker 5: and like humanity and connection because Gemini is like the
Speaker 5: bridge between the black and the white.
Speaker 4: It's the depolarization of things, and so it.
Speaker 5: Might be interesting to see how it's going to be
Speaker 5: eight years of it, right, So it's going to be
Speaker 5: like a progress of eight years, just like we had
Speaker 5: a progress of eight years till now, where we're like
Speaker 5: all the institutions that we once knew are now broken,
Speaker 5: right like Urinus rip shit up since twenty eighteen, So
Speaker 5: it will be interesting to see if like things and
Speaker 5: that's where like directing is so important because these people.
Speaker 4: Know these astrological trends that they use them.
Speaker 5: Right, So you can use astrological trends, it's to gear
Speaker 5: people to think a certain way.
Speaker 4: And I think that's where it's interesting.
Speaker 5: Like when you know, when we had you know, Saturn
Speaker 5: and Aquarius and everybody wanted to belong it was like
Speaker 5: the time of COVID, right, so it's like they pushed
Speaker 5: this like thing of like you can belong to this group,
Speaker 5: you can belong to that group, and you can also
Speaker 5: be a non vaxxer.
Speaker 4: That's also a group.
Speaker 5: Right, here's the groups that you can belong to because
Speaker 5: you want to belong And so it's interesting how That's
Speaker 5: what I always think about. It is like how can
Speaker 5: we gear people towards the good direction?
Speaker 4: But obviously I'm not influential enough to do that, but
Speaker 4: you know, yeah.
Speaker 6: Well I'm thinking about you're thinking about Saturn and Saturn
Speaker 6: eating as children, and I'm hearing more and more about
Speaker 6: these turbo cancers that increasingly younger people are dealing with.
Speaker 6: I certainly have my interpretation or my theory on why
Speaker 6: that is happening, but it's like the people who wanted
Speaker 6: to belong to that crusade. Really what it was, it
Speaker 6: was a moral panic crusade. Are being eaten by it,
Speaker 6: literally eaten by it. But there's also I don't know,
Speaker 6: you didn't mention, was it Neptune and aries? Did you mention?
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's just yeah, that's recently just Neptune moved into
Speaker 5: areas just like a couple of months ago I did.
Speaker 6: I had a discussion with an astrology named Noah Campbell.
Speaker 6: I don't know if you're familiar with Noah. We did
Speaker 6: a whole discussion on what that portends, you know, Neptune
Speaker 6: and areas and so on.
Speaker 5: And.
Speaker 6: It went, you know, it's it's gone from my mind
Speaker 6: because my brain just doesn't think that way. But if
Speaker 6: you want, I can send you a link to the discussion. Anyhow,
Speaker 6: we are on so many different levels. I mean, there
Speaker 6: are so many of these macro trends or these huge
Speaker 6: forces or these movements or these alignments of these conjunctions
Speaker 6: that are all happening now right, they're all coming into
Speaker 6: playe now. And what is what is that something had mentioned?
Speaker 6: There's some sort of conjunction of something that hasn't happened
Speaker 6: since like the time of Christ. What was that there's
Speaker 6: some major alignment or some something.
Speaker 5: It might have been like in a specific degree, because
Speaker 5: all the planets are going to interact within like two
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty years, because that's kind of like the
Speaker 5: cycle of Pluto. That would be like the longest one,
Speaker 5: but most I mean, it's going to be like in
Speaker 5: a sign, So maybe I think it was maybe like
Speaker 5: the Neptune Saturn. I could look it up in my
Speaker 5: phone to see what that aspect would be. But there
Speaker 5: is like you know, they do interact all the time,
Speaker 5: but in a specific sign.
Speaker 4: Is sometimes when people get hyped about.
Speaker 5: Because they're like, oh my gosh, this hasn't happened in
Speaker 5: this sign since you know, a long, long time ago.
Speaker 4: But I can look it.
Speaker 6: Up and then the houses and all the rest of it,
Speaker 6: and the Deccans, and I'm just so totally useless of astrology.
Speaker 6: I apologize anyhow, Well, you brought up chronism, and I
Speaker 6: think the X files is a really good example of that.
Speaker 7: You know, they're kind of the children of the FBI,
Speaker 7: and they're constantly being consumed by the government. You know,
Speaker 7: they're constantly being you know, used for their intelligence gathering,
Speaker 7: capability and then sort of thrown to the side and
Speaker 7: used up. You know, that's sort of like the same
Speaker 7: thing we see with you know, COVID and all the
Speaker 7: rest of these ideas is that we get used for
Speaker 7: our resources and then sort of tossed to the side.
Speaker 7: And that's that's a cycle that we've only recently, in
Speaker 7: terms of American history, become aware of. We thought that,
Speaker 7: you know, there was a reciprocal relationship going on here,
Speaker 7: but it seems like human resources are more and more
Speaker 7: used up in the toss to the side, and then
Speaker 7: we get something else. You brought up naval intelligence, and
Speaker 7: this is like the original form of intelligence, right, and
Speaker 7: in multiple ways. But for society, like you had to
Speaker 7: have this naval trade network that allowed for the you know,
Speaker 7: the trade of goods across boundaries using the water as
Speaker 7: their medium. What we see now going on with UH
Speaker 7: with Iran is that the naval blockade is sort of
Speaker 7: the central focus of society, right. And if you think
Speaker 7: of water as some sort of a conscious energy, what
Speaker 7: we're seeing is now this blockade of consciousness and and
Speaker 7: you know, everybody's sort of being diverted into this path
Speaker 7: of you know, focusing on on warfare and how can
Speaker 7: we how can we prop up this failing empire? And
Speaker 7: another way of putting naval intelligence is om fulo skepsis right,
Speaker 7: which would be naval dazing. And this is kind of
Speaker 7: the naval intelligence that we have now where all of
Speaker 7: these you know, people are just so hung up on themselves.
Speaker 6: Look at Pete Hegseth.
Speaker 7: You know, there's not a thing that he could say
Speaker 7: that you know, he wouldn't love to hear out of himself.
Speaker 7: And the entire thing is sort of inwardly focused. And
Speaker 7: now we're seeing the Trump administration turn on their own
Speaker 7: supporters and not listening to anybody. It's it's kind of
Speaker 7: intensely focused on the self while also being.
Speaker 6: Blind completely to what a lot of that might be. Also,
Speaker 6: I mean, there's just so many syops going on. I
Speaker 6: call it the syops singularity. I don't know what is
Speaker 6: signal or noise anymore. But I wanted to just sort
Speaker 6: of just back up a bit to what you had
Speaker 6: said about, you know, these systems sort of discarding people.
Speaker 6: I used to I mentioned this before we started the show.
Speaker 6: My day job was I was a freelancer from Marvel
Speaker 6: and for fifteen years from Marvel Studios. Now, I don't
Speaker 6: know if you've heard about this, but Disney, who owns Marvel,
Speaker 6: and that's a whole other story that we can maybe
Speaker 6: talk about one day, just basically fired everybody. So all
Speaker 6: the people who are making these movies, creating the concepts
Speaker 6: for these movies, that were basically keeping the lights on
Speaker 6: in Hollywood. I mean, Hollywood is rapidly imploding. We're just
Speaker 6: unceremoniously let go. And where where's the loyalty? You know,
Speaker 6: these these these great artists, these great visualizers, these great conceptualists,
Speaker 6: who earned billions of dollars for this company. It's like, sorry, goodbye,
Speaker 6: you know, no gold watch, You're done. I mean, I'm
Speaker 6: sure a lot of them got good severance packages. But
Speaker 6: I had been aware of this back in twenty twenty. Ironically,
Speaker 6: you know, the last work I did for Marvel was
Speaker 6: right before the whole COVID thing, you know, the shutdowns.
Speaker 6: In March of twenty twenty. I just finished my last
Speaker 6: job for Marvel just as that kicked in, and that
Speaker 6: was for the Eternals movie. And that was the movie
Speaker 6: that basically broke their backs.
Speaker 2: You know, if you look, that was God awful. That
Speaker 2: movie sucked, Yeah, which is amazing. I love that of
Speaker 2: those comics, you know that.
Speaker 6: It's it's It's funny though, because, like when I first
Speaker 6: started with a Secret Son, one of the earliest sort
Speaker 6: of mega threads that I had done on that blog
Speaker 6: was about the comic book of the Eternals. And I
Speaker 6: should have known better. You know, when I first heard
Speaker 6: they were going to do the Eternals, I was like,
Speaker 6: oh my god, this is great. And then of course
Speaker 6: I realized this is modern day Hollywood when they can't
Speaker 6: find their ass with both hands anymore. But I knew
Speaker 6: six years ago that it was over, you know, because
Speaker 6: I had that I had a different vantage point. Remember
Speaker 6: that scene in Mothman Prophecies, or like, you know, see
Speaker 6: that man up there cleaning the windows. You know, if
Speaker 6: there's an accident down the street, he can see. It
Speaker 6: doesn't make him gone, It just means he has a
Speaker 6: different vantage point on what's going on. And a lot
Speaker 6: of people are like, oh, you're crazy, you don't know
Speaker 6: what you're talking about. Oh It's like, well, maybe I
Speaker 6: do know what I talk about because I work for
Speaker 6: this company for twenty five years. Maybe I have a
Speaker 6: little bit more insight than you do, miss or random
Speaker 6: blogger nowhere person. But anyhow, I mean I knew that
Speaker 6: it was over, right, I knew that it was over
Speaker 6: because I wasn't getting the call. You know, my phone
Speaker 6: wasn't ringing. They weren't because there was no work to
Speaker 6: be done because the Canarian. The coal mine for the
Speaker 6: collapse of the Marvel Universe was the collapse of the
Speaker 6: work I was doing, which is licensing and merchandising for
Speaker 6: the films and so on. Because nobody wanted the toys anymore. No, no,
Speaker 6: you know, kids did not want eternals toys. I mean
Speaker 6: that you can still find them, like you know, these
Speaker 6: clothes out stores and everything. But that was that's to me,
Speaker 6: reminds me what Kay was talking about, because that's the
Speaker 6: whole woke thing, and that was I don't know if
Speaker 6: that's Aturnian or Tunian or whatever it is, but that
Speaker 6: was very much like, you know, people wanted to jump
Speaker 6: on this bandwagon. They didn't realize that the bandwagon was
Speaker 6: headed for a cliff that they were all going to
Speaker 6: go over, which you know is exactly what happens. So
Speaker 6: I'm not exactly sure what the you know, the astrology
Speaker 6: on that would be myself. But I saw it happened,
Speaker 6: and it's exactly, you know, ties into what what Kayla
Speaker 6: was saying before. So anyhow, and of course now they
Speaker 6: you know, the same company Disney owns the X Files,
Speaker 6: and they bought Fox and they're doing this whole reboote
Speaker 6: that I know is just not gonna fly. People have
Speaker 6: asked me about it. I'm just like, no, this this isn't.
Speaker 6: This isn't. This is an exercise from the last regime,
Speaker 6: the Bob Eiger regime. Hopefully they won't do too much
Speaker 6: damage to the to the franchise, because I'd like people
Speaker 6: will continue buying my book.
Speaker 7: Well, there's kind of a narrative chronism with the mouse.
Speaker 7: Just buy up all of these cultural you know, lexic vermin.
Speaker 6: Just think about that, just vermin, the ver vermin consuming
Speaker 6: all the cheese.
Speaker 2: Right, it's you just talk, You just spoke headless as
Speaker 2: language there.
Speaker 6: What's that?
Speaker 5: It's interesting as kind of Pluto in a way, like
Speaker 5: Pluto and Aquarius, right, just kind of like I don't know,
Speaker 5: when we think of Pluto, it is almost like the
Speaker 5: blowing up of culture, right, So maybe that is something
Speaker 5: because we don't need it anymore, Right, Like there's a
Speaker 5: healthy point of recognizing, like we don't really need that anymore,
Speaker 5: Like do we want this to be a part of
Speaker 5: our culture? And maybe, like these people, you know, destroying
Speaker 5: it is like giving an opportunity for new growth and
Speaker 5: culture that we need or something.
Speaker 6: I totally agree. I mean, I'm very much against all
Speaker 6: these reboots and sequels and remakes and everything. It's like,
Speaker 6: all these Star Trek belongs to the sixties. Star Wars
Speaker 6: belongs to the seventies and eighties, right, Marvel belongs to
Speaker 6: the sixties, seventies and eighties. These ideas, you can't just
Speaker 6: rip them out of the time period in which they
Speaker 6: were created and to the conditions and situations and realities
Speaker 6: that they spoke to and just expect, you know, oh,
Speaker 6: we'll give them a modern gloss and it'll be business
Speaker 6: as usual. It doesn't work that way, you know, things,
Speaker 6: mythology is not forever. This is something that I very
Speaker 6: strongly believe is that myths are part of the worlds
Speaker 6: in which they arise. Okay, now there are universal ideas
Speaker 6: and concepts and impulses beneath those myths, But I'm talking
Speaker 6: about the structure the outer shell of the myth is
Speaker 6: created for particular people in particular times. Okay, they're not
Speaker 6: just it's not like, you know, like a widget, you
Speaker 6: can just change it out right, you can just put
Speaker 6: a coat of paint on it and resell it. It
Speaker 6: doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's the change of the AONs, which is
Speaker 2: the term that I, you know, a lot of people
Speaker 2: use and I really like to use. And Gin is
Speaker 2: huge on this kind of movement as well. Is that
Speaker 2: we're you know, you move through the aon of Osyrius
Speaker 2: and the rising and the dying god. You know, aon
Speaker 2: of Horus is breaking things. So I know that's very cruelly,
Speaker 2: but there's more than that. You know, a on the
Speaker 2: Daughter is some is Gin is so elegantly is trying
Speaker 2: to put into the Happaborean mythos of things, and so
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting. And I myself am trying to
Speaker 2: push the aon of anime weebdom because I find that
Speaker 2: the East and Japan, South Korea, China are the anime
Speaker 2: that's the new modern myth. And even Jim Lee has
Speaker 2: come out and said anime is crushing us, Manga is
Speaker 2: crushing us right now because they're actually not being pushed
Speaker 2: by a woke agenda. They're come up with new ideas
Speaker 2: that are still hitting on old Shinto or old Japanese
Speaker 2: or even old Western alchemical and all these different mythologies
Speaker 2: of the West, but they're doing it in a new
Speaker 2: way that's capturing the attention of the youth. And it
Speaker 2: you know, and just you know, it tookt me wrong.
Speaker 2: The first thing. A lot of people think of and
Speaker 2: think of anime as that web style of you know,
Speaker 2: all the more lewd things that you get. But there
Speaker 2: are brilliant, beautiful changing of how to take a modern
Speaker 2: individual who suffers and bring them into the wider scheme
Speaker 2: of things so they can transcend their lower states and
Speaker 2: reach higher divine states through suffering and that passion and
Speaker 2: through trying to the old be Bushido code that I
Speaker 2: will die daily and upon doing so, I will alchemize
Speaker 2: myself and transcend my current state to be the highest
Speaker 2: individual that I can and bring my friends along with me.
Speaker 6: Well, that's what all heroic myths are supposed to be about,
Speaker 6: supposed to be, you know, going back to the Greeks,
Speaker 6: the self sacrificing individuals who suffer for the rest of us,
Speaker 6: put themselves on the line, and that's that's the basis
Speaker 6: of all heroic mythology. I think that we've lost that
Speaker 6: in many, many important ways. And this whole mythology, you know,
Speaker 6: where ninety five fifteen year old girls can beat up
Speaker 6: a squad of I mean, but you know, I mean,
Speaker 6: it's it's not based in reality. And I another thing
Speaker 6: that I talk about all the time. People have probably
Speaker 6: heard me say this is that I think CGI killed
Speaker 6: the magic of the movies, right. I think that when
Speaker 6: you look at CGI, no matter how beautiful it is,
Speaker 6: there's something in your mind's eye that realizes that it
Speaker 6: has no atomic reality. It's just pure electrons. Now, you
Speaker 6: go back to the movies that I grew up on, right,
Speaker 6: and some of the you see some of the like
Speaker 6: in camera of puppet puppetry and all these kind of
Speaker 6: effects and miniatures and everything. Some of it can seem
Speaker 6: pretty laughable now. But you didn't. You didn't think that.
Speaker 6: I mean, it used to be going to the movies
Speaker 6: was like going to temple, you know, it was like
Speaker 6: stepping into this temple of the mind, of the imagination.
Speaker 6: And I think that CGI broke that packed with us.
Speaker 6: You know. I remember seeing the first Blade Runner when
Speaker 6: it came out. The weekend it came out, and I
Speaker 6: was basically a religious experience for me. And all those
Speaker 6: miniatures of the city and all the rest of it,
Speaker 6: and the spaceships flying around and everything going on in
Speaker 6: that movie. People might look at it now and think, well, yeah,
Speaker 6: it's a little dated. I didn't think that. I was,
Speaker 6: like I am in that reality like you would not believe,
Speaker 6: you know, I'm sixteen years old. Actually no, it's still fifteen.
Speaker 6: You know. My mind is still just totally pumped in
Speaker 6: prime for this right to step into this other world.
Speaker 6: And what was the other film? Oh this is good.
Speaker 6: Nobody's heard of this movie. But when when me and
Speaker 6: my friends were kids, we're all just total delinquents, and
Speaker 6: we used to have this thing where like, let's get
Speaker 6: as high as we can before we sneak into the movies.
Speaker 6: And there was this movie that nobody's ever heard of.
Speaker 6: You can probably look it up. It's called Rock and
Speaker 6: Roll nineteen eighty three Don Bluth animation film. When I
Speaker 6: went back and looked at it, it just looked ridiculous
Speaker 6: to me. But my brain's in that state it was.
Speaker 6: I was in it. I was in that world, you know,
Speaker 6: I entered into that world and I can't remember, I
Speaker 6: cannot remember the last time I had that experience at
Speaker 6: the movements, And I think CGI has a lot to
Speaker 6: do with that. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't capture
Speaker 6: you because somewhere you know, it's it's unreal. So that's
Speaker 6: sort of a I don't know if that has to
Speaker 6: do with the X file. Well, I'll tell you exactly
Speaker 6: what it has to do with the X Files. I
Speaker 6: did not like the feature film, the first feature film
Speaker 6: at all. It took. What made the X Files magic
Speaker 6: was the intimacy of it. It was very intimate. You know,
Speaker 6: it's this intimate relationship between this man and this woman
Speaker 6: suffering and struggling in the dark, you know, out away
Speaker 6: from the public eye. And when there's giant spaceships and
Speaker 6: all and buildings blowing up and all the rest of it,
Speaker 6: that broke that compact of intimacy. You know, I don't know,
Speaker 6: I don't know how to explain it, you know, to
Speaker 6: give you an effective metaphor for that, But it's it's,
Speaker 6: you know, it's like when your favorite band becomes popular
Speaker 6: because they change the style, right, they sell out. I
Speaker 6: kind of felt like, you know, the X Files kind
Speaker 6: of sold out for that movie. I mean, I love
Speaker 6: the second movie, which everybody seems to hate. But that's
Speaker 6: the whole other discussion. Anyhow, any other questions.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just ask anybody I have any other
Speaker 3: questions before we set the Rabbit up Earth two hours.
Speaker 8: Well, I just want to say that I loved what
Speaker 8: Kaiva said, and thank you Brandon for shouting out Anne
Speaker 8: of the Daughter. Of course, that's like such a seminal
Speaker 8: part of my whole project.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 8: But you know, I think what Kaiva said about Pluto
Speaker 8: was really on point, especially in regards to Anne of
Speaker 8: the Daughter, because even though most people, most astrologers think
Speaker 8: of Pluto as like just strictly a purely destructive force,
Speaker 8: I think there's actually a lot of resolution of paradox
Speaker 8: that happens, especially if you're comparing it to Uranus. It
Speaker 8: kind of opens the opens the gate, you could say,
Speaker 8: for a new paradigm rather than just destroys the old,
Speaker 8: which is what both Pluto and Uranus can do. But
Speaker 8: I think Pluto actually allows for a kind of recreation
Speaker 8: of the not the past, not a return in like
Speaker 8: an Evolian sense, but perhaps maybe something new, a progressive,
Speaker 8: a on and not in the political sense, but just
Speaker 8: something like a way to move forward with the movement
Speaker 8: of the cosmos, or some sorrow rather than you know,
Speaker 8: be referential to like a mythical as I call it.
Speaker 1: Wee wi was King's past.
Speaker 6: All of nature is renewed by fire, right, that's the
Speaker 6: meaning of iron are nice? Let's a Roman saying. So
Speaker 6: destruction is an important part of new creation, you know,
Speaker 6: you have to clear away the old. And I think
Speaker 6: that is why our culture is so dead, because we
Speaker 6: won't like go of the X File, we won't let
Speaker 6: go Star Trek, we won't let go of Star Wars.
Speaker 6: We won't let go of Superman and Batman and the
Speaker 6: X Men. You know, all these just archaic and you know,
Speaker 6: anachronistic ideas from a completely different world, a completely different reality.
Speaker 6: We can't let go of them, right, I mean, the
Speaker 6: corporations can't let go of them because they don't have
Speaker 6: anything new to replace them with. And then the fans
Speaker 6: are so emotionally invested in these characters they have to die,
Speaker 6: you know, they can't just be the walking dead forever.
Speaker 6: You know, and again I'm totally against this whole of anybody,
Speaker 6: anybody doing like a new X file series. It's like, no,
Speaker 6: that belongs to the nineties. Let it go, leave it
Speaker 6: in the past. Right. We have to have like new
Speaker 6: stories to tell each other. If we just keep telling
Speaker 6: each other the same stories, I mean, that's why things
Speaker 6: are just so depressing and static. You know. I consider
Speaker 6: myself incredibly blessed, you know, to be like this weirdo
Speaker 6: kid who lived for pop culture when you know, in
Speaker 6: the seventies and eighties, right when when things were new
Speaker 6: and exciting all the time, and it was like new
Speaker 6: ideas kind of you know, like I said, being fifteen
Speaker 6: years old going to see Blade Runner, being ten years
Speaker 6: old and going to see the first Star Wars movie.
Speaker 6: It's just like you can't replicate that. It's like stuck
Speaker 6: chasing that dragon. It really is. It really is an addiction,
Speaker 6: you know, and it's like you'll you'll never equal that
Speaker 6: first high, You'll never equal that first rush that you
Speaker 6: got from seeing Star Wars or whatever film. I don't
Speaker 6: know the answer to it, and I just unfortunately, I
Speaker 6: think the economics of it don't pan out anymore. I mean, hope.
Speaker 6: I mean, I know a lot of people are very
Speaker 6: down on an AI, and I completely understand why. But
Speaker 6: I think the only hope is is somebody in there,
Speaker 6: some kid in their basement, you know, tapped into whatever
Speaker 6: clod I don't even know whatever animation AI and having
Speaker 6: something new to say. You know, that's that's the only
Speaker 6: way out of this mess. We have to let all
Speaker 6: these old stories die because they are smothering us, you know,
Speaker 6: they're smothering us. It's to me, it does feel very Saturnian.
Speaker 6: It is a very set you know, like Saturnian energy,
Speaker 6: just like pinning you down in place right and just
Speaker 6: sort of smacking you around. We have to let go
Speaker 6: of that. We need we need fresh ideas and fresh energies,
Speaker 6: and we certainly need them more in more than just
Speaker 6: pop culture, you know, we need them in our governments
Speaker 6: and our institutions and our economics and all the rest
Speaker 6: of it. We need like truly new ideas, you know,
Speaker 6: like socialism is a not a new idea. It's actually
Speaker 6: a very very ancient idea, you know. I mean ancient
Speaker 6: sumer was actually a communist state, you know, it was
Speaker 6: a communist theocracy. Those aren't new ideas we need, like
Speaker 6: real new ideas and fresh thinking.
Speaker 5: Well, that's a nice about Uranus and Gemini coming up
Speaker 5: next not this Saturday, but next Saturday, Uriness moves into Gemini.
Speaker 5: I mean, because Gemini is also economics. It's the marketplace, right,
Speaker 5: so Gemini is the marketplace exchanging of ideas. So we
Speaker 5: can probably see like all those things are describing is
Speaker 5: like that's a fun thing about astrology.
Speaker 4: It's like we all crave.
Speaker 5: It and then it comes because it's like, you know,
Speaker 5: that's the process.
Speaker 4: So it'll be interesting to see what happens over the
Speaker 4: eight years.
Speaker 6: There are also the gates to Heaven, right, you know,
Speaker 6: Boaz and Jack and Gemini. It's at the crossroads of
Speaker 6: the ecliptic and the celestial plane, right, and that's you know,
Speaker 6: you enter in through Gemini, you know, Ariga sending Ariga Perseus,
Speaker 6: you know, up to to Heaven, up to Cepheus. Right,
Speaker 6: and that we can maybe do a show on this,
Speaker 6: you know, my interpretation of what the whole nine eleven
Speaker 6: Mega ritual is really about.
Speaker 3: But uh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: I'll have to in on that because it's all celestial.
Speaker 6: It all has to do with the watchers. That's another
Speaker 6: thing that I've talked quite a lot about, watcher cults,
Speaker 6: fallen angels, restoring the fallen angels to heaven, and so
Speaker 6: on and so forth. So uh, but Gemini is the gateway.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's you. You ascend up the celestial plane,
Speaker 6: you know, like I said, through Ariga and Perseus and
Speaker 6: Cassiopia Andromeda and Vegasist and so on and so forth.
Speaker 6: But then you're you're at Sepias. But that becomes the
Speaker 6: war in heaven between Draco and Sepias. Right, Oh, don't
Speaker 6: get me strong on that. We'll never get out of here.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for coming on. Man, that was
Speaker 3: like an awesome discussion. There's a lot deeper than I
Speaker 3: to go. Hell, yeah, no, that was great stuff. Before
Speaker 3: we let you plug everything that you got, we'll have
Speaker 3: everybody else. Just remind everybody we can find all their
Speaker 3: amazing work. Kaiva, Please let everybody know what they can
Speaker 3: find your stuff one more time.
Speaker 5: Yes, this is a lovely conversation. You can find me
Speaker 5: at eleven Kaiba Rose thirty three dot com. You can
Speaker 5: also find me at Kaiva Rose, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.
Speaker 5: And I also have new ideas because I have my books.
Speaker 5: So I'm an young adult author. So Rue Odyssey is
Speaker 5: my fantasy series, and it's mystical.
Speaker 4: It's magical, it's steampunk.
Speaker 5: It has ancient wisdom thrown in there as well, so
Speaker 5: it's fantastic and fun.
Speaker 4: And there's part one and two and I'm writing part
Speaker 4: three right now. So yes, thanks for this wonderful conversation.
Speaker 3: Thank you for making it. Appreciate it. And Headler's Giant,
Speaker 3: my man, what is going on? Sir?
Speaker 6: Hi you doing?
Speaker 7: You can find me on Twitter, on Instagram, on YouTube
Speaker 7: at the Headless Giant, and also on Rumble, So go
Speaker 7: subscribe over to Rumble if you haven't yet, I need
Speaker 7: to get those numbers up and.
Speaker 6: Check me out.
Speaker 7: On Sunday morning at ten thirty Central, We're going to
Speaker 7: be doing a live trialogue with Ethan Indigo Ricardo Calvario
Speaker 7: and I'm going to be down there. You're, you know, Madison,
Speaker 7: Wisconsin doing a live with Ricardo.
Speaker 6: So it's going to be awesome.
Speaker 3: Check it out, very good, very good. And Jim the Ninja,
Speaker 3: what is going on, sir?
Speaker 1: What is up us?
Speaker 8: Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you, Chris,
Speaker 8: it was great to speak to you again after that,
Speaker 8: I think it's been like a year and a half
Speaker 8: to two years, so honestly, it was really like very
Speaker 8: it was very cool and I appreciate it, and of
Speaker 8: course too Kaiva, and I'm looking forward to our conversation
Speaker 8: in the future and hopefully we'll talk about your books
Speaker 8: as well. And of course Brandon Lee my brother, my
Speaker 8: brother from Mercury. On Monday nights, we have been doing
Speaker 8: this gonzo radio thing. You can also check me out
Speaker 8: of Threshold Saints and the Gray Lodge, which is our
Speaker 8: group show all speculative Cabala, speculative Cali Chakra and speculative Narcissism,
Speaker 8: so we do Friday night Nastic Mass.
Speaker 1: And then also.
Speaker 8: Yeah, follow me on Twitter at wu Conreborn, w uk
Speaker 8: O and g Reborn that's my big account, but you
Speaker 8: can also follow the show on I G and x
Speaker 8: Twitter at Threshold Saints. So thank you guys so much.
Speaker 1: It was I don't know that I have seen a
Speaker 1: lot of X files, but I honestly don't remember.
Speaker 8: But what I found interesting was really the sort of
Speaker 8: depth and contours of this conversation.
Speaker 1: So thank you guys. Appreciate it well.
Speaker 6: My book is available on Kindle too if you don't
Speaker 6: want to take the plunge for the well, the full
Speaker 6: ride again, it's it's going to show up backwards. But
Speaker 6: xf Ultra, the X files, conspiracy culture in the National
Speaker 6: Security State, and it's everything that we've discussed and so
Speaker 6: so much more.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's actually going to uh.
Speaker 6: You know, the mechanics and the history of the National
Speaker 6: security state, post war human experimentation, and also the whole
Speaker 6: UFO situation as well, which is seems to be perpetual
Speaker 6: these days where we're looking down the barrel of disclosure
Speaker 6: day coming out.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so it's going to say this all.
Speaker 6: It seems to me like it's I call it close
Speaker 6: and counts of the third kind with major depressive disorder.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 3: And Brandon, let everybody know what's up with you man.
Speaker 2: Please, thank you, thank you. Nick is always always proud
Speaker 2: to be a reject of the occult, a reject of
Speaker 2: the rejects. Can't even help it. This is how it goes. Chris,
Speaker 2: this was fantastic. I've been wanting to talk to you
Speaker 2: for a very long time. Obviously, I'm gonna ask you
Speaker 2: please come on my show. I would love to interview
Speaker 2: you and put all your work out there for everyone
Speaker 2: to see. So I would love that.
Speaker 6: Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Let's do it. Beautiful, awesome. Everyone. Head over to megas
Speaker 2: in the Media on YouTube, subscribe, like and share. I
Speaker 2: got merch dropping, It's on the web, it's on It's
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Speaker 2: to wear it on all your garb? I know you do.
Speaker 2: Head over to megas in the Media, check me out
Speaker 2: on x Instagram and the like. Jin the Ninja and
Speaker 2: Me on Monday evenings. It's been fantastic for some reason.
Speaker 2: If you want to listen to us for two to
Speaker 2: three hours jabber on about certain topics, that's what we do.
Speaker 2: Ethan Indogo and I just did a show. We're both
Speaker 2: tai Chi martial art practitioneers. We did one part one,
Speaker 2: We're gonna do part two next week, and then we're
Speaker 2: gonna talk about the Dow the following week, most likely
Speaker 2: coming up on my show. I have dropping a Sarah
Speaker 2: Jane's Dream Mysteries that I just did. We went deep
Speaker 2: for a few hours. It was fantastic. The Great Gordon
Speaker 2: White is coming on at the end of the month,
Speaker 2: which I'm really excited to chat with him because I
Speaker 2: like you, Chris, like Greg. I've been listening to you
Speaker 2: guys for years and it's kind of like talking to
Speaker 2: the people that have helped also, not just mold, but
Speaker 2: people that I'm like, oh my god, other people think
Speaker 2: like I do. Thank fucking heavens. As well. As there's
Speaker 2: a book it's called Black Pilgrimage David Beth he's the publisher.
Speaker 2: He owns the publishing company fone Press. He's coming on
Speaker 2: and I'm going to be dropping that that book is fantastic.
Speaker 2: So yeah, everyone just head on over there. That's my
Speaker 2: shtick again. Thank you Chris, thank you Nick, and again
Speaker 2: everyone out there subscribe. I can share to all of
Speaker 2: these people. Head over to Kiverros eleven thirty three. She's
Speaker 2: the best astrologer out there. Book yourself with her if
Speaker 2: you want to figure out how your life works in
Speaker 2: the Grand majesty of this celestial.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. And Chris, please remind everybody where
Speaker 3: you can find all your great stuff and all your
Speaker 3: social media.
Speaker 6: Okay, secretsun dot blogspot dot com is the old war Horse,
Speaker 6: then the the Secret Sun substack dot com. I'm going
Speaker 6: to be changing the address for that soon to secretsun
Speaker 6: dot blog for now. You can find it at thesecretsun
Speaker 6: dot blog. I mean, I've been around, I've been on
Speaker 6: the internet forever, so I'm pretty easy to find.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even if you just put his name in hip
Speaker 3: will pop up.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and look forward to uh interacting with the folks
Speaker 6: out there.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you very much, man. This is really an
Speaker 3: awesome episode. I really had a great talk and like
Speaker 3: I said, one and the other directions, I didn't expect it.
Speaker 3: I thought it was awesome. Really love to get you
Speaker 3: on again and finally happy we finally did. It's been
Speaker 3: a while I've wanted to get you on the show, so.
Speaker 6: Well, let's pencil in a September appearance. Yeah, nine to.
Speaker 3: Eleven, definitely, definitely, definitely down for that. The twenty fifth year,
Speaker 3: Sooth annivers.
Speaker 6: Your twenty fifth anniversary, and I'll walk everyone through because
Speaker 6: once you see the correspondences, you'll realize that something much
Speaker 6: different than you've been told by anyone. What's going on
Speaker 6: that day?
Speaker 3: Oh, very interested, very interesting. Thank you very much, Chris.
Speaker 9: Uh.
Speaker 3: Yeah again, thank you everybody for making the show too,
Speaker 3: and everybody in the chat. How warld that is what's up?
Speaker 6: Man?
Speaker 3: Thank you very much and that's what we go live.
Speaker 3: And until the next one, everybody be well later.