Speaker 1: And I just turned around and I call ass out
Speaker 1: of there.
Speaker 2: I was done.
Speaker 1: I wasn't dealing with them.
Speaker 2: The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things
Speaker 2: that turned me away the quickest.
Speaker 1: When I turned my head lights on, it turned and
Speaker 1: looked at us.
Speaker 3: And one of the things I remember the most where
Speaker 3: the eyes were going red. I see an orb of light.
Speaker 1: It is just circling these steps.
Speaker 3: Like it is waiting for me.
Speaker 1: And he begins to tell them that he saw Ufo.
Speaker 1: They're basically like, what are you talking about. That's seven
Speaker 1: foot up on a tree, peeking around it, and that's
Speaker 1: where I saw the top of the muzzle, nose and
Speaker 1: the eyes.
Speaker 4: As soon as I made eye contact with this thing.
Speaker 1: It don't like death.
Speaker 3: Welcome back, Cold Listeners, just branding from ten Foil Tales,
Speaker 3: bringing you some new episodes to listen to. Today. We're
Speaker 3: going to start looking into a couple of different phenomenas.
Speaker 3: First up, we're going to talk to d about crop circles.
Speaker 3: Then later we're going to be joined by Ian and
Speaker 3: talk about cattle mutilations. I feel like both of these
Speaker 3: have a similarity with unknown phenomena that happens usually associated
Speaker 3: with UFO contact, and I thought it would be a
Speaker 3: good idea to share that with you guys today. Before
Speaker 3: we do that, I just want to say thanks to
Speaker 3: Cult of Conspiracy for having me a part of this.
Speaker 3: Thanks for you guys listening, and if you're a fan
Speaker 3: of ten Foil Tales, make sure to go and subscribe
Speaker 3: or follow Tenfoil Tells anywhere you listen to podcast at.
Speaker 3: I also do another show live on Thursday nights at
Speaker 3: nine pm Eastern Standard Time called Seamsus where I look
Speaker 3: into a lot of conspiracy things and a lot of
Speaker 3: the weird stuff going on in the world with my
Speaker 3: friend Ed Again. That is life every Thursday night on
Speaker 3: the ten Foil Tells YouTube channel nine pm Eastern Standard Time,
Speaker 3: So make sure to go to that YouTube channel and
Speaker 3: subscribe to the ten foil tals page and you can
Speaker 3: check out seem sus. If you're a fan of the show,
Speaker 3: make sure to share it around. Word of mouth helps
Speaker 3: ten Foil Tales grow. Please leave a five star rating
Speaker 3: in review wherever you listen to ten Foil tals at
Speaker 3: and if you would like to help support, make sure
Speaker 3: to join the Patreon. You get early access to all
Speaker 3: the episodes and they're all ad free, only one dollar
Speaker 3: ninety nine cents a month, so it's worth checking out
Speaker 3: if you'd like to help support ten foil Teals. I
Speaker 3: also have a documentary coming out called The Mississinemall Triangle.
Speaker 3: It will be available here soon, so make sure to
Speaker 3: keep your eyes out for that. But on that note,
Speaker 3: we're going to dive right on into it. So welcome
Speaker 3: back to ten Foil Tells. I have your host Brandon
Speaker 3: today we're joined by my guest d d. Thanks for
Speaker 3: being here.
Speaker 4: That's a pleasure. Brandon, thanks so much.
Speaker 3: Would you like to let the audience know a little
Speaker 3: bit about yourself before we get into it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I ran a substack called it Can't Be PayPal, which
Speaker 2: addresses events occurring around human made crop circles that really
Speaker 2: do sort of enter into the paranormal and high strangeness
Speaker 2: and overlap with uthology. And I've been interviewing circle makers
Speaker 2: human circle makers over the past eight years and just
Speaker 2: collating their accounts, which I then put for free on
Speaker 2: my substack. It'll probably be a book at this at
Speaker 2: some stage, but in the meantime it's garnering a lot
Speaker 2: of interest because people don't really understand about this element
Speaker 2: of the mystery.
Speaker 3: Right, crop circles has been something that's interested me for years,
Speaker 3: even as a little kid. So this is something that
Speaker 3: I've been looking forward to talking to you about.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's mutual.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean we probably started from the same place, mate,
Speaker 2: because my interest is uthology, and I was brought up
Speaker 2: in the Golden age of like Jack Vaia and John
Speaker 2: Keel and Jenny Randalls and John Spencer, all of the
Speaker 2: seventies and.
Speaker 4: Eight is really great literature.
Speaker 2: And when we started to see we had UFO casebos
Speaker 2: over here where every year you'd have details of sightings
Speaker 2: relevant throughout the world and throughout Europe and the UK.
Speaker 2: But then we started to see reports of these crop circles.
Speaker 4: And in those days.
Speaker 2: They were very very simple single circle events, or they
Speaker 2: were just single circles with maybe satellite circles around them
Speaker 2: that looked like UFO landing gear from like The Day
Speaker 2: of the Earth did still a B movie. They all
Speaker 2: looked like landed vessels, okay, and the polemic and the
Speaker 2: reports were reported as such they did look like landed
Speaker 2: UFOs and the president was the Tally Nests from Australia
Speaker 2: in the seventies that looked like landed UFOs, but that
Speaker 2: was in grass because were you having them in crop
Speaker 2: Because the crops higher, the indentations were were more pronounced.
Speaker 2: And then the polemic changed in about nineteen ninety where
Speaker 2: we saw the now legendary led Zeppelin Remasters cover, which
Speaker 2: I'm sure you know about, which was more like like
Speaker 2: a corridor with interlocking circles and forks and door keys. Now,
Speaker 2: at that point the landed ufo polemic should really have
Speaker 2: just been obliterated, because no ufo looks like that, But
Speaker 2: because the imagery and the connection between UFOs and crop
Speaker 2: circles have become so ingrained within the public psyche, we
Speaker 2: had this clunky transition where people said, well, that's not
Speaker 2: a landed ufo, it's a message from our space brothers instead.
Speaker 4: If that makes sense to you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, if you would like to dive into what
Speaker 3: you've researched, I'll turn it over to you, and then
Speaker 3: if I got any questions, I'll ask as we go along.
Speaker 3: But I try not dinnerrupt people too much.
Speaker 2: No, mate, really, that's fine. I've done loads and loads
Speaker 2: of these things and that's the best way.
Speaker 4: To do it.
Speaker 2: I understand. The reason why I have to remain anonymous
Speaker 2: today is.
Speaker 4: Because there's there's three reasons.
Speaker 2: The first reason is that crupt circle making is illegal
Speaker 2: in the UK. It's not actually a criminal police matter,
Speaker 2: but it's a civil suit if the farmer chooses to
Speaker 2: take action because it's it's criminal damage. No matter how
Speaker 2: pretty the circle is, it's criminal damage. It's trespassed and
Speaker 2: it's vandalism. And there's no statute of limitations in this country.
Speaker 2: So even though I retired from making ten years ago,
Speaker 2: if I get linked to a circle, I could still
Speaker 2: potentially be in trouble. The second reason is this isn't
Speaker 2: about the personalities and the circle makers themselves. It's more
Speaker 2: about the stories and the anecdotes and the accounts speaking
Speaker 2: rather than the artist, and we prefer for it not
Speaker 2: to be about personalitism. We prefer for the art to
Speaker 2: be speaking. The third reason is this is a highly
Speaker 2: highly contentious viewpoint or avenue that it's not a viewpoint,
Speaker 2: it's actually how things are. It's a highly contentious narrative
Speaker 2: I'll be giving you today, and I have a wonderful
Speaker 2: life outside of this, and I don't really want that
Speaker 2: to be encroached upon people that don't really follow what
Speaker 2: the narrative is. Now, My belief was always in, as
Speaker 2: I said, ufology, And when I started to see these
Speaker 2: crop circles appearing in the case books, I didn't realize
Speaker 2: how close Wiltshire because that's where they were appearing. I
Speaker 2: didn't realize how close Wiltchire was to where I lived
Speaker 2: in London. And when I did realize, I just got
Speaker 2: in the car and just drove down and started to
Speaker 2: visit these things. Our sort of bible at the time
Speaker 2: and still is the Crop Circle Connector website, which tells
Speaker 2: you that where the events are and where the circles are,
Speaker 2: and I imagine that I'm probably where a lot of
Speaker 2: your listeners are in that. I always thought that this
Speaker 2: was some sort of NHI, or it was something connected
Speaker 2: to you, to UFOs, or to military testing, or to
Speaker 2: Gia or to Mother Earth. We didn't for a second
Speaker 2: consider that they were human made, because the ones that
Speaker 2: we did see that were human made were normally really wonky.
Speaker 4: And really badly done. And I'll come on to what
Speaker 4: that is soon.
Speaker 2: So if I was to go and do a field
Speaker 2: trip and visit and visit ten circles, if I knew
Speaker 2: that two of those were man made.
Speaker 4: I just wouldn't bother, okay.
Speaker 2: And I held the circle makers in the same contempt
Speaker 2: that I am sure that some of your listeners will
Speaker 2: will hold me. And that's fine, okay, because we thought
Speaker 2: the mystery was deep enough without the pranksters and these
Speaker 2: hoaxes coming in and just muddy in the waters. I
Speaker 2: always use the analogy of the magician with the balls
Speaker 2: under the cups. You know, there's three cups, one ball,
Speaker 2: and then these idiots come and add another ten cups.
Speaker 2: So I visited the circles, but the Moro Moro went
Speaker 2: to visit Wiltshire. I started to hang about where the
Speaker 2: circles were made, and I used to go to the
Speaker 2: gift shops and the related places like avery and Stonehenge,
Speaker 2: all these ancient, you know, really special sites. Started to
Speaker 2: hear stories from human circle made because who, as I said,
Speaker 2: I had complete disdain for. But I started to hear
Speaker 2: stories of strangeness. I was hearing stories of like time
Speaker 2: shifts and UAPs and dream driven events, intense, intense synchronicities
Speaker 2: and stuff that was all going around the creative pro
Speaker 2: And then I was overheard one day saying, I don't
Speaker 2: care how the circles got there. I'm more concerned about
Speaker 2: what they do. I the magic that they instill into
Speaker 2: the land, and the people that you know, report all
Speaker 2: these wonderful experiences.
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 2: I was overheard saying that, and the circle makers said
Speaker 2: to me that we've been watching you for a while.
Speaker 2: We think that you're probably aligned to what we're doing.
Speaker 2: We started a circle last night, but we didn't finish it.
Speaker 2: Would you like to come out and do the rest
Speaker 2: with us? And of course I jumped at it. But
Speaker 2: I did promise myself that if I didn't encounter any
Speaker 2: of the paranormal or you know, really odd stuff that
Speaker 2: I'd been hearing about and reading about, I probably would
Speaker 2: put it all down to lies and fabrications and people
Speaker 2: padding their part, and I promised myself I would never
Speaker 2: do it again. Now, we went into to finish this circle,
Speaker 2: and nothing happened at all, and I thought, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is all a bunch of bs. It's just these people,
Speaker 2: you know, fabricator making themselves look big. They're just hoaxters.
Speaker 2: It's not the real phenomenon. It's just a wasted my time.
Speaker 2: And we finished the circle and the second that we
Speaker 2: finished it, I saw this single like magnesium flare at
Speaker 2: the end of the field, which looked like an old
Speaker 2: polaroid flash bowl from one of those old cameras. And
Speaker 2: I was very paranoid because i'd, as I do now,
Speaker 2: a quite as principle job. And I just said to
Speaker 2: the team leader, I said, people are taking pictures of us.
Speaker 2: We've had and it was becoming daylight. It was about
Speaker 2: three point fifteen by this point. I said, we've had it.
Speaker 2: They're taking pictures, but that this is going to go.
Speaker 2: I'm going to get a criminal record that's going to
Speaker 2: affect my job. And he went, no, don't worry, and
Speaker 2: I said, what do you mean. He was really blase
Speaker 2: a because he'd made loads and loads of circles. And
Speaker 2: then I watched this flash and it kept appearing, and
Speaker 2: then this flash turned into it proliferated into five flashes,
Speaker 2: then ten, then fifteen, and then it was like thirty
Speaker 2: of these like magnesium flares like UAPs at waste level,
Speaker 2: which I'd ever seen before in the literature, and it
Speaker 2: sprinkled itself around the circle from the left and right
Speaker 2: right round the circle. So we had this proliferation of lights,
Speaker 2: which I describe in my substack as the biggest necklace
Speaker 2: in the world. And I said to the team leader,
Speaker 2: what the hell is that? And he says, look, that's
Speaker 2: just us being told. It's a little round of applause.
Speaker 2: We're being told that the circle's finished and not to
Speaker 2: do anything else to it because we might mess it up,
Speaker 2: like a painting where you do so much. And then
Speaker 2: he looked up at the sky and he said, okay,
Speaker 2: we're finished. Now it's yours. It's all yours. What that
Speaker 2: means is that for as long as we're making a circle,
Speaker 2: it's ours, but the second we leave it, it doesn't
Speaker 2: belong to us anymore. And he said, okay, we're going now,
Speaker 2: thank you very much. And the second is said that
Speaker 2: these lights just went off, every single one. The whole
Speaker 2: thing was like someone had switched a light switch. And
Speaker 2: that's when I became hooked. And then the second time
Speaker 2: I made a circle, we had a pink uap appeared
Speaker 2: just as we did the first stump mark, and it
Speaker 2: appeared for the duration of the circle and then blinked
Speaker 2: out once it finished. Now that's when I started to
Speaker 2: become hooked, and I started to make them regularly, and
Speaker 2: strangeness didn't happen every time, Brandon, I mean, every circle
Speaker 2: would be eventful, something funny might happen, or something amusing.
Speaker 2: But as far as high strangeness, I only had it
Speaker 2: about forty to fifty percent of the time. But every
Speaker 2: time I did, it was really really odd. And that's
Speaker 2: the message that I'm trying to put across and trying
Speaker 2: to say to people. Don't disregard human circles because there
Speaker 2: is a high strangeness element. Actually when they're placed in
Speaker 2: these very very old ancient Neolithic and Megalithic sites like
Speaker 2: Stonehenge and Avery, where our four bears have been created
Speaker 2: like thousands of years before.
Speaker 3: Us, those places that they've been creating them out, like
Speaker 3: you mentioned Stone Hinge, those sites obviously meant something to
Speaker 3: the ancient peoples that built them in the first place.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean it goes deeper than that. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how you are aware of how much
Speaker 2: you are aware of Jack Vegae's work, but he basically
Speaker 2: says that what we now report as UFOs were being
Speaker 2: reported as fairy lights in medieval times and religious lights
Speaker 2: before that. Whatever it is that is here in this
Speaker 2: area Brandon has existed with us, probably since our inception,
Speaker 2: and I think that our four bears were far more
Speaker 2: tapped in to whatever it is that we've now forgotten
Speaker 2: because of our technocratic age, and I think that we
Speaker 2: are just we've just inherited the work of our forebears
Speaker 2: by mistake. None of this is by design. Whereas where
Speaker 2: they were building in stone and rock and those things
Speaker 2: have existed for four thousand, you know, six thousand years,
Speaker 2: our things are like temporary temples that only exist for
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks before they're cut out by the farmer.
Speaker 2: But it is interesting that when I do collate these
Speaker 2: strange reports from circle makers, they too tend to dissipate
Speaker 2: the further that I get away from the from the
Speaker 2: key Neolithic sites. And I've spoken to Italian artists and
Speaker 2: French artists, and I've said to them, I'm looking for
Speaker 2: strange reports for my substack in this book, and Brandon,
Speaker 2: they haven't got anything at all.
Speaker 4: There's no strangeness at all, which just seems.
Speaker 2: To be collated to where our ancient ancestors were doing
Speaker 2: the same sort of thing thousands of thousands a year ago.
Speaker 3: I've often wondered when it came to crop circles, because
Speaker 3: over here in America when I was growing up, everyone said, oh,
Speaker 3: they're made. People did it, There's not anything about it.
Speaker 3: You get some of these really in depth looking ones
Speaker 3: like it, the thought of a person creating them in
Speaker 3: a matter of a few hours just didn't seem realistic,
Speaker 3: just because of how intricate the designs were. But I
Speaker 3: think you guys have them over there in the UK
Speaker 3: too that are very like, highly detailed ones. And obviously
Speaker 3: when someone did it, you're gonna have the people to
Speaker 3: jump on the bandwagons and they go make their own
Speaker 3: and everything else. But there are instances over here where
Speaker 3: they've been found with weird traces of radiation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've Yeah, there's two things to consider there. Firstly,
Speaker 2: when they start to become more and more intricate in
Speaker 2: the nineties, and as the artists got better and better
Speaker 2: and better and they got onto like the fantastic stuff
Speaker 2: that was happening from about sort of nineteen ninety two onwards.
Speaker 2: I always thought, same as you, how the hell can too,
Speaker 2: because we had this thing of like Doug and Dave,
Speaker 2: where we had these two old guys that come and
Speaker 2: confess to the whole thing. You know, there's certain questions
Speaker 2: I've got about that whole that whole episode. So we
Speaker 2: had this trope then, oh it's a couple of piss
Speaker 2: blokes coming home from the pub. Now, what you've got
Speaker 2: to consider is that when you see a really bad
Speaker 2: crop circle, okay, it's probably a new team starting out okay,
Speaker 2: and they haven't got a clue what they're doing. And
Speaker 2: I always equated to Navana, you know, so Navana when
Speaker 2: they started, they could rehearse in the garage and not
Speaker 2: be and not be seen for six months and just
Speaker 2: make as many.
Speaker 4: Crap mos as you know.
Speaker 2: They could be rubbish, but they don't go out and
Speaker 2: play live until they're ready, whereas with grup circle teams,
Speaker 2: we don't have that luxury. You know, you're rehearsing from
Speaker 2: day one. So people are saying, well, that's obviously, you know,
Speaker 2: a man made circle, because it's really really terribly done.
Speaker 2: But that same team, when they get better, they'll be
Speaker 2: making circles that people think aren't made by people two
Speaker 2: years on now, when I made when I went out
Speaker 2: to do my first one or help on the first one,
Speaker 2: you then become aware of I couldn't do it the
Speaker 2: next day, but I could see how it was done. Okay,
Speaker 2: So it's this thing where you scale up. You know,
Speaker 2: I've seen I've been out in fifteen twenty man teams
Speaker 2: and they've all known what They've all known what they
Speaker 2: were doing. Okay, Now, as far as the radiation is concerned,
Speaker 2: I've tried to diget, I've tried to get I mean,
Speaker 2: you've got all these you've got this. A lot of
Speaker 2: pseudo science there is that the research community high behind
Speaker 2: because the research community don't want you to know that
Speaker 2: it's people because it goes against the money making narrative.
Speaker 4: So we have.
Speaker 2: Reports of radiation, although we don't know if they've actually
Speaker 2: measured radiation from outside the formation as well, it could
Speaker 2: be within the whole field.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: When you look at the papers, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: ambiguity in them. And then you've got the bent not
Speaker 2: broken argument. People say when in real corrupt circles, the
Speaker 2: crop is bent not broken because of the weight of
Speaker 2: the boards. But again that is kind of pseudoscience because
Speaker 2: when we actually create in the evening, the crop is
Speaker 2: very moist, so it does tend to bend rather than break,
Speaker 2: and when you go into a crop circle the next day,
Speaker 2: it is like it's like COSI, it's like a crime scene.
Speaker 2: It's literally a crime scene in that it's criminal damage.
Speaker 2: But also if you don't get in there before anyone
Speaker 2: else and you start seeing a load of a load
Speaker 2: of mess and footsteps and broken stems, what you're seeing
Speaker 2: there is not the work of the team. You're seeing
Speaker 2: the work of the all of the one hundred or
Speaker 2: two hundred people that have been in there before you,
Speaker 2: that have visited it in that morning.
Speaker 4: You know. So I hope that answers your question.
Speaker 3: Yeah. For me, it's just I guess, well you obviously
Speaker 3: can't answer, but like why did they start doing it?
Speaker 4: Yeah? See, this is where this is where I'm quite passionate.
Speaker 2: This is where the real mystery lies for me, because
Speaker 2: as with uthology, you know, you get reports.
Speaker 4: I'm deeply rooted in uthology, and you know you've.
Speaker 2: Probably heard about the tendency if people, if someone's a believer,
Speaker 2: they're more likely to see a UFO than if they're
Speaker 2: not right. And it's not misappropriation, and it's not you know,
Speaker 2: a miss Ida, it's just it seems to be Brandon.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure where you are with the phenomenon.
Speaker 2: But I've studied this for like four years, and I've
Speaker 2: gone a way, as a lot of key uthologists have.
Speaker 2: I went away from the extraterrestrial help hypothesis about ten
Speaker 2: or fifteen years into my studies. I don't think that
Speaker 2: it's ET. I think that it's something that masquerades as ET,
Speaker 2: and I think it's something that's coexisted with us and
Speaker 2: has been tracking and metamorphosizing itself based on where we
Speaker 2: are technology in the forms of technology, and I think
Speaker 2: it's been with us since our inception. Now to answer
Speaker 2: your question, we think that there is something else going
Speaker 2: on in that we're not circle makers.
Speaker 4: Human circle makers.
Speaker 2: Are not We're not chosen or anointed or special in
Speaker 2: any way. But it just seems to be that we
Speaker 2: if a person does have an affinity towards the paranormal
Speaker 2: and uthology and spiritual things, it just seems to be
Speaker 2: that we become more aligned with the phenomena and then
Speaker 2: we attract the phenomena.
Speaker 4: Okay, so we don't know.
Speaker 2: We think that those original single circles from the eighties,
Speaker 2: we think that they a lot of those were mysterious.
Speaker 2: We don't actually know what they were because the crop
Speaker 2: was bent upwards at like two or three inches sometimes,
Speaker 2: which can't be done by a board. But certainly anything
Speaker 2: sort of post nineteen ninety, which is the picturegrams and
Speaker 2: all the calendar stuff that you like, you know, that's
Speaker 2: that's arguably all man made. But nobody really knows where
Speaker 2: the genesis comes from or where the inspiration comes from.
Speaker 2: And the bit that I'm interested in is that the
Speaker 2: fact that people can go and make a crop circle
Speaker 2: and then somebody else has already been there and made
Speaker 2: that exact pattern or somebody as happened with me once
Speaker 2: we went to make a crop circle and it was
Speaker 2: supposed to be swallows. And then as soon as we
Speaker 2: got to the field, because you start at ten o'clock,
Speaker 2: you know you've got between ten and three o'clock to
Speaker 2: get it done, because you've got five hours of darkness
Speaker 2: when we get when we went to the edge of
Speaker 2: the field, our crop circle leader kind of had a
Speaker 2: spasm in his car. We went bolt upright and looked
Speaker 2: straight ahead and said, no, it's spirals now. So I said, well,
Speaker 2: we can't do spirals. We've been rehearsing swallows all day,
Speaker 2: he said, no, it's got to be spirals. And then
Speaker 2: we made us and then we made this crup circle,
Speaker 2: and then literally an identical circle was made that same night,
Speaker 2: like fourteen miles away. And that's where we start to
Speaker 2: think why and what else is going on? And then
Speaker 2: we get dream driven events where I had a situation
Speaker 2: where I was having this recurring out of body experience
Speaker 2: dream where I was swooping over two fields in Wiltshire
Speaker 2: and there were two massive crop circles in these fields,
Speaker 2: and I was having a dream and this guy that
Speaker 2: I used to go to school with was in my
Speaker 2: dream every time. But this guy from school, I hadn't
Speaker 2: thought of him for forty years. So I'd wake up thinking, God,
Speaker 2: it's that dream again, And by the way, what's my
Speaker 2: school friend doing there? And then one day I took
Speaker 2: a wrong turn when I was in Wheeltshair. Now, when
Speaker 2: you say wrong turn or mistake, that in our world
Speaker 2: is different, you know, to what most people sort of
Speaker 2: attributed to. It seems to be that wrong moves and
Speaker 2: mistakes seemed to be kind of engineered. So I took
Speaker 2: this wrong turn and I found myself looking at these
Speaker 2: actual two fields that have been recurring in my dream,
Speaker 2: and I looked to my left and I saw that
Speaker 2: the name of the road that I turned down was
Speaker 2: the same name of the road that my schoolfriend lived
Speaker 2: in when I used to go around his house to
Speaker 2: play forty years ago.
Speaker 4: And I thought, well, that's weird.
Speaker 2: But it spurred me to say, well, you need to
Speaker 2: do something. So I didn't have that the where with
Speaker 2: all the amount of people to do those two circles,
Speaker 2: so I decided I was going to do one of them,
Speaker 2: and I phoned my partner. I phoned the team. I said, look,
Speaker 2: we've got a choice of two. They're completely different. And
Speaker 2: it was like all the way through to the field
Speaker 2: we couldn't decide what to do. And then in the
Speaker 2: end I just kind of looked skywalk at it and
Speaker 2: just let my mind empty, and I thought, whichever stump
Speaker 2: goes down first, that's the circle I'm going to do,
Speaker 2: and then the next. So we finished one circle, and
Speaker 2: then the next day I got a phone call from
Speaker 2: my partner in London and she she said to me, Crush,
Speaker 2: you were busy last night. I said, yeah, we got
Speaker 2: we got one of my circles down from my dream,
Speaker 2: and she said, well, no, you didn't. You got both
Speaker 2: down And I said, no, we didn't. We got one down,
Speaker 2: and she goes, well, you better go online. So in
Speaker 2: those days it is before Wi Fi, so you had
Speaker 2: to drive to the nearest place with with it with
Speaker 2: the internet. So I found this internet cafe and I
Speaker 2: found an aerial shot and it had my crop circle
Speaker 2: in one field and then there was this stripe. Now
Speaker 2: what that stripe was was this massive hill where it
Speaker 2: was like I couldn't see what's going on the next
Speaker 2: field because we had this massive hill. So we had
Speaker 2: my field with my circle, then this stripe, and in
Speaker 2: the next field, which was obscured from me, my other
Speaker 2: crop circle was in there. So aily it was exactly
Speaker 2: as it occurred in my dream. And we didn't know
Speaker 2: about that team and they didn't know about us. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't know to this day if when all this
Speaker 2: strange stuff occurs, whether it's the species field and we
Speaker 2: are somehow unconsciously, you know, in interlepathy with the other team,
Speaker 2: or if there's something else at play and we're somehow
Speaker 2: being played.
Speaker 4: If you see what I mean.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you think this is kind of hypothetical. You've mentioned
Speaker 3: there's you believe that there's something with these things from
Speaker 3: that's been here the whole time, like not ets in general,
Speaker 3: but from doing my show, I've talked to a lot
Speaker 3: of people here and a lot of things anymore, especially
Speaker 3: when it comes to aliens, and it depends on they
Speaker 3: take it to a religious aspects, and I try, I
Speaker 3: try to avoid that, but they believe these ets are demonic,
Speaker 3: and then a lot of people think the same things.
Speaker 3: But if you go back through history, as you mentioned before,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of stories, especially through Europe, of faithfolk.
Speaker 3: And if you come over here to America and you
Speaker 3: talk to the Native Americans, they talked about the spirit realm,
Speaker 3: these spirits they had their ancestors, and there's also little legends,
Speaker 3: these other like things. I've always said, what if it's
Speaker 3: all one and the same. We all interpret it differently,
Speaker 3: but a lot of the things are based off of
Speaker 3: something that's always been here.
Speaker 2: I'm one hundred percent on I'm one hundred percent with you.
Speaker 2: The only thing that I'd say that throws a spanner
Speaker 2: in that world, but only a slight small spanner, is
Speaker 2: that I think that it is down to our interpretation.
Speaker 2: So where upon now we will see, you know, abductions
Speaker 2: with adductions from grays, the fayfolk or sorry, our ancestors
Speaker 2: in medieval times would call that away with the fairies.
Speaker 2: So the fairies would take them away, and then they
Speaker 2: come back changed. They'd be missing time that they come
Speaker 2: back what they thought was what they think is two
Speaker 2: days later, but it's years later as far as the
Speaker 2: locals go. So I am with you one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: But my one thing I'd add to that is that
Speaker 2: what if this whatever it is, this Nhi or this
Speaker 2: ancient whatever it is, what if it is deliberately projecting
Speaker 2: itself in a way that we then interpret it as
Speaker 2: something which is just beyond our capabilities. So if you
Speaker 2: look at perhaps the airship sightings from the eighteen nineties,
Speaker 2: which were UFO sightings, which I'm sure you're aware of,
Speaker 2: people were reporting those as before airships were a thing, Okay,
Speaker 2: So it just seems to be that this thing is
Speaker 2: placing itself just beyond where we are in terms of
Speaker 2: technological maturity and where we are within our religious mindsets.
Speaker 2: And I've always been very curious about the fact that
Speaker 2: it wasn't until nineteen forty seven with the Mount Rainier
Speaker 2: sighting and that was just two years after Hiroshima. It
Speaker 2: seems to be to me and to a lot of
Speaker 2: euthologists that we have somehow through our messing about with
Speaker 2: nuclear energy and you know, and Hiroshima, and it just
Speaker 2: seems to be that perhaps we've affected there's been ripples
Speaker 2: from our time, ripples from our plane if you like, that,
Speaker 2: have rippled into theirs, and then they have to manifest
Speaker 2: themselves as a way of sort of trying to control us.
Speaker 2: I've always thought it was really interesting that Kenneth Arnold
Speaker 2: did not report fly I repeat, he did not report
Speaker 2: flying saucers. He reported nine crescent shaped craft which moved
Speaker 2: as a circle would do if you skipch it over water.
Speaker 2: Why Brandon, why do we start seeing flying saucers? That is,
Speaker 2: you see what I mean? It seems to mold itself
Speaker 2: based on what we expect to see. Do you understand?
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. I've always thought, after I figured out the
Speaker 3: Kenneth Arnold thing, and I've interviewed someone else has done
Speaker 3: a lot of research into that too, that it was
Speaker 3: almost a way for them to control the narrative, Like
Speaker 3: they started pushing out lying saucers through the media and everything.
Speaker 3: But the original version was he saw these crescent moonsheep
Speaker 3: things and flying saucer now became cinemas with UFO siding saucers.
Speaker 2: That this is why I think there's some sort of
Speaker 2: manipulation going on. But it also relates to things outside euthology.
Speaker 2: I mean, why do we don't Why don't we see
Speaker 2: ectoplasm anymore?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 2: For you know, why is it? And for and in uthology,
Speaker 2: where did the Nordics go from the fifties? Why are
Speaker 2: we seeing different types of aliens based on as we
Speaker 2: get progressively progressively more scientific. I think that as you say,
Speaker 2: I did an interview with a Faye podcast a few
Speaker 2: months ago, is one of the best I've done, and
Speaker 2: he aligns with everything you just said. It is it's
Speaker 2: just something which is pre existed with us since our
Speaker 2: inception and manifests its based on where we are, and
Speaker 2: that goes for youuthology, it goes for everything which we
Speaker 2: seem to which we see as paranormal. And I see
Speaker 2: parallels between the crop circles and euthology which spread out
Speaker 2: through the whole paranormal world.
Speaker 4: We are just kind of.
Speaker 2: Especially with the dream, especially with the synchronicitis that we
Speaker 2: get where you think, you know, there's some sort of
Speaker 2: engineering involved where we call it a game of chess,
Speaker 2: but we're not playing it. We're the pieces, but we
Speaker 2: don't know, you know. And the thing with the synchronicity
Speaker 2: is is you just could not engineer them. I mean,
Speaker 2: we had a situation where we were going to make
Speaker 2: a crop circle and it was a team of six
Speaker 2: and it was like a social event really because we
Speaker 2: only get to meet each other once a year. So
Speaker 2: we said, let's get this crop circle down. And it
Speaker 2: was like a celebration of Mother Earth and it was
Speaker 2: going to be brilliant, and we'd all work together before
Speaker 2: and it was going to We had a social We
Speaker 2: had a couple of pints at the pub.
Speaker 4: Didn't get drunk, obviously, you just had a couple of
Speaker 4: pints over a couple of.
Speaker 2: Hours, you talk about what you're going to be doing
Speaker 2: in the circle because you get like the people that
Speaker 2: measure it out, You get the inexperienced people stomping the
Speaker 2: stuff down and then they go into lead their own
Speaker 2: teams and blah blah blah, they get better and better.
Speaker 2: And anyway, what happened was there were six people all
Speaker 2: knew each other, and then one of us got a
Speaker 2: phone call and he went, oh shit, I've I've just
Speaker 2: got a text. I've forgotten I'm on another team tonight,
Speaker 2: I promised myself last year. So we lost him. And
Speaker 2: then somebody else said, oh shit, you know I'm on
Speaker 2: that team as well, so we lost him. So we
Speaker 2: were down before and then by chance, somebody phoned up
Speaker 2: a friend and said, oh, I'm in the area, and
Speaker 2: we said, get you to asks down here we needed
Speaker 2: and basically somebody else left and said, I've got a
Speaker 2: family matches. I said, we were one down, and then
Speaker 2: somebody else came in just by a chance. So to
Speaker 2: cut a long story short, the six people that went
Speaker 2: out were completely different to the six people that were
Speaker 2: supposed to be there in the first place. Over the
Speaker 2: course for an hour, the whole thing just changed, okay,
Speaker 2: like chess pieces. So we had six different people in there.
Speaker 2: So we were in the car in the suv, and
Speaker 2: we realized that we didn't know each other, which is
Speaker 2: crazy because you know, we were just strangers to each other.
Speaker 2: So it was a bit of an uncomfortable silence. And
Speaker 2: then one guy said, you know, if my mom knew
Speaker 2: what we were doing tonight. She'd be absolute, she'd be
Speaker 2: so proud because she was she was a spiritualist, and
Speaker 2: she'd be really into what we're doing. And I said, well,
Speaker 2: you know, you can bring it down next year, and
Speaker 2: he went no, because she passed away last year. And
Speaker 2: then I said, my mom passed away last year, And
Speaker 2: then like Spartacus, everybody in the van said the same thing.
Speaker 2: And then we and then like there's like shiver went
Speaker 2: through us because we realized that we both had this
Speaker 2: same loss within like twelve months. And then we realized
Speaker 2: that we were making a crop circle, which was a
Speaker 2: celebration of Mother Earth. And that's when that's where my bloods.
Speaker 2: That's where my brain starts to boil.
Speaker 4: Where we're going, What is is going on? Do you understand?
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, Like the similarities and the synchronicities. Yeah, it
Speaker 3: just made me start thinking of something and what like
Speaker 3: when you've made circles, what determines the design you're going
Speaker 3: to make? That just something that someone says, hey, I
Speaker 3: want to make this one. Is there a significance as
Speaker 3: to why? Because well, if you'd have asked me that.
Speaker 2: Before I started to make them, I'd have said, well,
Speaker 2: you know, I've got a different answer now, and that is, firstly,
Speaker 2: we've got to consider this one thing. The circle making
Speaker 2: season is between sort of May and early September if
Speaker 2: you're lucky. Now, the first couple of circles are normally
Speaker 2: made in that horrible cranola canola yellow stuff. It's really
Speaker 2: hard to bend. The stems are like broom handles. It's
Speaker 2: and it springs up, and then you start to get
Speaker 2: the decent stuff. You start to get the barley and
Speaker 2: the wheat, and that's the stuff that stays down and
Speaker 2: that's the stuff that you know, what you see the
Speaker 2: great circles. So we've got from September until kind of
Speaker 2: March to work out what we're going to do. So
Speaker 2: what you think is sometimes your idea, you go to
Speaker 2: the field and then and then and then you speak
Speaker 2: to because the crupt circle community isn't as close knit
Speaker 2: as you think.
Speaker 4: You know, there's separate teams.
Speaker 2: But sometimes you'll say, well, we're going to make this circle,
Speaker 2: and then someone said, well, you've nicked that from Sicide
Speaker 2: because he's doing that this year. And then somebody else
Speaker 2: has got the same thing. And so the answer to
Speaker 2: your question is what you think is like an original inspiration.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it gets back to exactly what we're talking about.
Speaker 2: Where why are three people having the same idea? Why
Speaker 2: and why is that theme there.
Speaker 4: For that year?
Speaker 2: And then sometimes what will happen around and you get
Speaker 2: back to this mistake thing right where you go to
Speaker 2: make a circle in a particular field and then you
Speaker 2: can't get to that field because there's a roadblock or
Speaker 2: there's a flood.
Speaker 4: Any whatever.
Speaker 2: And then as a compromise, because you're all in the
Speaker 2: car and you go, well, we can't actually arrange to
Speaker 2: meet for another week or two, We've got to do something.
Speaker 2: The team leader will say, look, let's just let's just
Speaker 2: do it here. Okay, let's just do it here instead.
Speaker 2: And then you find out that that compromised location has
Speaker 2: a direct significance to the image that you've put in
Speaker 2: that particular field, because it's significant to the dates, or
Speaker 2: it's significant to something.
Speaker 4: In the area.
Speaker 2: So again you think what's going on? You know, so
Speaker 2: you think it's your idea of the time, and then
Speaker 2: you find out that another three people have had the
Speaker 2: same idea.
Speaker 3: I've wondered and I don't remember if I read this somewhere,
Speaker 3: if I watched a show or i'd heard it on
Speaker 3: a different podcast, but someone was hypothesizing that these things
Speaker 3: are which I think they were more still on the
Speaker 3: side of their ets doing it. But these things were
Speaker 3: supposed to be some sort of ancient sigils or Yeah,
Speaker 3: they were supposed to be like for rituals for summoning things,
Speaker 3: but they weren't talking about people doing it. Yeah, if
Speaker 3: you take that aspect to it, people are doing it.
Speaker 3: And you just mentioned like multiple people having the same idea.
Speaker 3: Maybe it is condicted to it to where you're all
Speaker 3: making the same thing because it is like a situle,
Speaker 3: like a ritual that you're all connected to it.
Speaker 4: See.
Speaker 2: I know that your lists are going to be disappointed
Speaker 2: to find out that it's humans, Okay, But what I'd
Speaker 2: say to that is that if you just where I
Speaker 2: used to think it was et or nature spirits or gaia.
Speaker 2: When I found out that that it was people, I
Speaker 2: was really really angry and annoyed because I thought I've
Speaker 2: wasted ten years of my life studying this thing and
Speaker 2: it's ET. And I was really angry for about ten
Speaker 2: minutes because I was down in the area when I
Speaker 2: find out when I fact when the scales fell from
Speaker 2: my eyes and I realized what was going on. I
Speaker 2: was annoyed for ten minutes, and then I thought, hold
Speaker 2: on a minute, if you actually include or put humans
Speaker 2: in here as a component, all of the other stuff
Speaker 2: is still there.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: So by having the humans in here as just a
Speaker 2: component of a bigger mysterious picture, it actually makes birth
Speaker 2: UFOs look quite boring. It means the mystery is a
Speaker 2: thousand times deeper than you think it is. And when
Speaker 2: we do a circle, what you're saying is true. It
Speaker 2: is es sigil, but maybe we don't know it is.
Speaker 2: We just had the idea inverted commas. And then we
Speaker 2: find out that that particular image is of massive significance
Speaker 2: to where we've placed it, and we think that the
Speaker 2: work of our four bears. I'll say it again. We're
Speaker 2: living in a technocratic age now where we've forgotten everything,
Speaker 2: everything spiritual, and all of this knowledge that our four
Speaker 2: bears had.
Speaker 4: We just think that the.
Speaker 2: Circles act as schedules to like reboot the energy that's
Speaker 2: already there.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: And it's like, because we've got we've got the highest
Speaker 2: concentration of lay lines in Europe, you know in abury,
Speaker 2: and it just seems to be that they're like jump leads,
Speaker 2: if you like, they're like batteries. And the reason why
Speaker 2: we make crop circles look as if they're not man
Speaker 2: made because people put iron filings in them, and they
Speaker 2: you know, they make they'll do everything they can to
Speaker 2: make it look as if it's not people is because
Speaker 2: when people think it's people, there's no magic instilled into them. Okay,
Speaker 2: they need to be seen as being not man made
Speaker 2: for them to have the effect on people. Now, people
Speaker 2: say to me, well, in that case, why the hell
Speaker 2: are you on the shows telling people that it is people?
Speaker 2: And that's because we've had forty years of this now, okay,
Speaker 2: and we've had forty years of pseudoscience. And what we're
Speaker 2: saying is if you put us into the equation and
Speaker 2: you think of as actually instilling schedules into an ancient,
Speaker 2: already magical area, the mystery is far deeper than you
Speaker 2: think it is. And there are strong parallels between this
Speaker 2: and eupology as well.
Speaker 3: Not to try and connect that into what ancient people
Speaker 3: have done, but I can't think exactly. I know it's
Speaker 3: in South America. I think it's maybe prove the Nascal.
Speaker 2: Line the Masca lines. Yeah, now the Mascal lines are see,
Speaker 2: it depends on how far how deep you want to go.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I've heard people say that they are
Speaker 2: actually portals. And we've got a band in our country
Speaker 2: called Killing Joke, and they're a band very much true
Speaker 2: by numerology. All their songs are based on, you know,
Speaker 2: certain mathematical schedules themselves sort of thing. And the singer
Speaker 2: Jazz Coleman actually went and stayed within the abdomen of
Speaker 2: the spider, within the Nasca lines, and he says he's
Speaker 2: convinced that it's ay that that they are portals. So
Speaker 2: there was strong parallels between the Nasca lines, you know,
Speaker 2: and what we're doing as well.
Speaker 3: We think there's a lot of places that are supposedly
Speaker 3: like very high energy, Like there's Sedona, Arizona here in
Speaker 3: the States that people claim that they go out there
Speaker 3: and they feel like there's portals there, and then there's
Speaker 3: other locations. I know, the TV show kind of blows
Speaker 3: it out of proportion, but there's yeah, they claim there's
Speaker 3: something to do with that, and there's these high energy areas.
Speaker 3: So I'm wondering maybe these things are always there and
Speaker 3: for some reason unknown to you guys, that you're being
Speaker 3: drawn in to do these sigils, these crop circles, because
Speaker 3: that's something that polds you to it without explaining it
Speaker 3: other than the fact that, like what made them make
Speaker 3: these big designs in Peru that no one could see
Speaker 3: unless you're in the air, and back when they made them,
Speaker 3: no one would have seen them. There shouldn't have been
Speaker 3: anything in the air. But they were compelled to do
Speaker 3: something like that. Just same thing with like stone, like
Speaker 3: all these different megalithic things too, is what caused people
Speaker 3: to do that? And I've thought this with pyramids over
Speaker 3: the time, like why were the ancients across the whole
Speaker 3: world in China, Egypt, South America they all were building
Speaker 3: like these pyramids, Like we evolved, Yeah, we evolved to
Speaker 3: build these pyramids. Like the ancient people are building these
Speaker 3: pyramid type structures. But why was it across the whole world?
Speaker 3: How did they all know to build a pyramid? You'd
Speaker 3: think some things would be a little different here and
Speaker 3: there for some reason that at the same timeframes or whatever,
Speaker 3: over a couple hundreds of years, they were building similar structures.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it goes to it also goes towards I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how true this is, but I think
Speaker 2: there's some weight to it. When when John Logibad put
Speaker 2: in the patent for the television, apparently they were already
Speaker 2: two or three patterns pending from people that had the
Speaker 2: same idea in other parts of the world that hadn't
Speaker 2: known about each other. So there's that implantation thing. But
Speaker 2: what you're saying is true, And what when when you
Speaker 2: talk about the compulsion thing, Obviously what were you doing
Speaker 2: once the circles are down? They only exist for a
Speaker 2: week or two before they harvested, you know. But sometimes
Speaker 2: we are some I mean when I started doing them,
Speaker 2: I mean I'd be pulled. You know, I've got I've
Speaker 2: got a friend who has like pulled out of bed
Speaker 2: one like to do something, you know, the compulsion was
Speaker 2: so strong. And then you get other days where you think, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm definitely going to do it tonight because I've got
Speaker 2: a team, and then you don't feel like it, or
Speaker 2: something happens and somebody has a family disaster or then
Speaker 2: and then I go out tomorrow, and then when tomorrow comes,
Speaker 2: then you feel absolutely drawn and compelled your polls and
Speaker 2: then you find out, oh, it had to be done
Speaker 2: on that date because that date is significant to the
Speaker 2: fill we put it in, you know. So so yeah,
Speaker 2: I had a situation. I am see what, see what
Speaker 2: The stuff I'm talking about brand is very hard to
Speaker 2: sort of scientifically sort of measure, you know, because it's
Speaker 2: all based on the psyche. And I think that that
Speaker 2: whatever this phenomenon is and in upology is actually deep
Speaker 2: sitting in the human psyche. But where my interest lies
Speaker 2: is talking to I spoke to a circle maker and
Speaker 2: he said that he was in bed one night and
Speaker 2: he had this compulsion, as you say, absolutely overwhelming compulsion.
Speaker 2: At midnight he woke up and he had this He
Speaker 2: felt as if he'd been shaken awake, and he said,
Speaker 2: I felt like there was a presence in the room,
Speaker 2: like not like when you see polter gast activity or
Speaker 2: ghost he said, but there was there was no apparition.
Speaker 2: But I just had the sense that I wasn't alone,
Speaker 2: and I had this compulsion to go and make a
Speaker 2: crop circle. It was midnight and then but I thought
Speaker 2: to myself, I don't want to. I'm slug in bed.
Speaker 2: There's nowhere i'd like I'd less want to be right
Speaker 2: now than slugging away in the field. But this compulsion
Speaker 2: did not stop. But he said it wasn't pleasant. He
Speaker 2: said it was like when your cat wants feeding and
Speaker 2: it's not going to stop until you get up and
Speaker 2: get it food. He said it was there was nothing
Speaker 2: spiritual about it. It just he said that he had
Speaker 2: to give in and get up. So he got the
Speaker 2: kit out of the car and he went and walked
Speaker 2: towards this field, which was ridiculous because it was like,
Speaker 2: you know, sort of one in the morning, and like,
Speaker 2: you know, he's got his boards with him because you
Speaker 2: can't rustle up a team at that time of night,
Speaker 2: you know. And and anyway, he said, he went to
Speaker 2: do this formation. He had this very clear image as
Speaker 2: to what he wanted to do in his mind, and
Speaker 2: he said he got bored of walking, so we went
Speaker 2: to this other field which was similar to the one
Speaker 2: he was supposed to go to, and he said the
Speaker 2: second he got into the field, there was this nausea.
Speaker 2: He felt sick. He didn't throw up, but it was
Speaker 2: close to he was really ill. So and then when
Speaker 2: he come out of the field and sort of went okay,
Speaker 2: I'll go to the other field that Nauser stopped. And
Speaker 2: then when he went to the actual field that he
Speaker 2: was summoned to, he started to make this circle. And
Speaker 2: because he was doing it by himself, he actually used
Speaker 2: tank pads to do the measuring, when normally you have
Speaker 2: to put a temp peck in a tent peg in
Speaker 2: the ground and then take the tape out of that
Speaker 2: to measure to do your measurements. And he said, he
Speaker 2: got this circle done, and it was a little bit
Speaker 2: beyond his capability, but it was like as soon as
Speaker 2: he started to make it, he had this energy rush.
Speaker 2: And that's that's common if you look at the the
Speaker 2: literature were circle makers, people get energy rushes. And he
Speaker 2: said he got the circle done, and he pretty much
Speaker 2: sort of dropped dropped, dropped asleep on the spot at
Speaker 2: about three am. And then the next day he woke
Speaker 2: up and there was a group of girls freaking out
Speaker 2: and they were in his circle and they were going mental.
Speaker 2: They were going to do lally in a really happy way.
Speaker 2: And he went up and walked up to them, just
Speaker 2: pretending that he'd just fallen asleep under the tree and
Speaker 2: he just got there and they said, look, look, look,
Speaker 2: he said, well, it's it's toill himself. He thought, well,
Speaker 2: it's quite a good circle, but it's not worth all
Speaker 2: the all.
Speaker 4: The fuss they're making.
Speaker 2: And it turns out that they were Pagans Brandon, they
Speaker 2: were Wickans, and they'd been meditating the previous night on
Speaker 2: getting this particular schedule down in this field which was
Speaker 2: next to them, and one of the girls was grappling
Speaker 2: around her neck and she said, this is that we
Speaker 2: were meditating on it. This was what we meditated on.
Speaker 2: And obviously the sidual was the same thing that he
Speaker 2: had in his mind to do. And that's where that's
Speaker 2: the bit that I'm interested in, right, I think, in
Speaker 2: what is going on? Is there telepathy between us and
Speaker 2: other people? Or is this something else at play?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: I just feel like there's some sort of connection with everything,
Speaker 3: especially with if you look at it from a from
Speaker 3: outside looking in, you hear the stories of the connections
Speaker 3: here just even like throughout the years and everything else,
Speaker 3: I've always been seen here in the last year or
Speaker 3: two that I feel like everything somehow is connected, when
Speaker 3: even with like the paranormal aspects to the UFO aspects,
Speaker 3: who people are recording seeing these cryptid type creatures or whatever,
Speaker 3: there is something at play.
Speaker 2: You think it's Do you think it's strange that? I mean,
Speaker 2: you've probably been into into the subject for us as
Speaker 2: long as I have a right, although I might be
Speaker 2: a bit older than you. When I was a kid,
Speaker 2: when I was like, you know, talking to people about
Speaker 2: UFOs and Kelly Hopkinsville and you know, all all of
Speaker 2: the classic literature and like the Leny Sakura event. You know,
Speaker 2: my friendship thought I was mad. You know, they just
Speaker 2: thought I was. But now they sort of say to me,
Speaker 2: you know, I think I saw something, or you know,
Speaker 2: they go, can you actually explain to me a little
Speaker 2: bit more about it? And it's like people seem to
Speaker 2: be much more receptive to it now. And there's a
Speaker 2: lot more sightings and citings to contradict what I've said
Speaker 2: to you before, sightings made by people that aren't believers.
Speaker 2: I just think there's been an acceleration or a concentration
Speaker 2: within paranormal activity and people's perception towards it over only
Speaker 2: maybe just the past ten years. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2: I would yes, But isn't that strange in itself? Don't
Speaker 2: you think?
Speaker 3: I wonder and I think I've mentioned this before on
Speaker 3: a different episode, but maybe it's because it's more mainstream now,
Speaker 3: it's being more wider accepted. But by also being out
Speaker 3: there more, more people are becoming aware of it, and
Speaker 3: once you become aware of it, you're more susceptible to
Speaker 3: having an experience of something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did an interview with them.
Speaker 2: I did a really nice podcast interview a couple of
Speaker 2: months ago with the odd Bull people of the odd
Speaker 2: Ball Shop it's called or the Oddity Shop and what
Speaker 2: what what we said there was. But because we're talking
Speaker 2: today about you know, a high strangeness environment, I crop
Speaker 2: circles being like a theater of the strange. What a
Speaker 2: tendency that I might have is to actually equate strangeness
Speaker 2: with crop circles because it's within the crop circle environment. Now,
Speaker 2: that could be a fault on my part because it
Speaker 2: could be that if you were to make a list
Speaker 2: of ten weird things that happened to you in the
Speaker 2: week just going about your daily business, Okay, it could
Speaker 2: be the same as ten days in the fields. It
Speaker 2: just seems to be that there are more people experience
Speaker 2: more in.
Speaker 4: Terms of synchronicities.
Speaker 2: Now, you know, you know, you know the thing about
Speaker 2: when you you see us, you're in the street and
Speaker 2: then you see somebody and you think, god, I've not
Speaker 2: seen them for forty years, and then you go, oh, no,
Speaker 2: it's not them, and then you do see them half
Speaker 2: an hour later, you know.
Speaker 3: I think that. Yeah, it's almost like a deja vu
Speaker 3: type thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I think people are connecting the
Speaker 2: dots more than they used to because there's more of
Speaker 2: a like you say, it's more mainstream. But a mainstream
Speaker 2: phenomenon wouldn't necessarily result in genuine sightings, would it.
Speaker 4: It might, It might.
Speaker 2: Result in in miss IDs or you know, misattriputations, but
Speaker 2: I don't think a concentration in the mainstream would actually
Speaker 2: result in genuine sightings.
Speaker 3: Do you think whatever this is, like, whatever people experience
Speaker 3: or see, do you think everyone interprets it differently just
Speaker 3: to what they are accustomed to see. And I mean
Speaker 3: this in this sense that say someone said they saw
Speaker 3: an alien, or someone said they saw a little person
Speaker 3: like a faithfolk, or someone claims they saw a bigfoot,
Speaker 3: and all these things have the same instance where they
Speaker 3: just vanish, even like a ghost apparition. They saw an apparition,
Speaker 3: it just vanishes. Maybe our minds can only interpret what
Speaker 3: it's programmed or what they're projecting us to interpret it
Speaker 3: as like it projects whatever it wants us to think
Speaker 3: that it is, or we can only see it as
Speaker 3: a certain aspect of it.
Speaker 4: Three things I'd say to that.
Speaker 2: First one is that I've done a lot of I
Speaker 2: know we touched on it before, but I have done
Speaker 2: a lot of.
Speaker 4: Christian based podcasts.
Speaker 2: Okay, where to them, the interpretation of that that they're
Speaker 2: convinced that what I'm talking about is demonology and they
Speaker 2: think that I'm channeling really evil stuff.
Speaker 4: Okay, but that's from their interpretation.
Speaker 2: And they're really nice people, and I'm not going to
Speaker 2: fall out of them, you know that they that they've
Speaker 2: given me a chance to speak. They're really nice people.
Speaker 2: But the two other things I'd say is that I
Speaker 2: remember reading in the literature a long time ago that
Speaker 2: there was a particular sighting and somebody said, in the
Speaker 2: citing the aliens or wherever they were, said, would you
Speaker 2: like we are showing you us in our form now
Speaker 2: because it won't freak you out? Would you like to
Speaker 2: see us in our true form?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 2: But the other thing I say is that I've got
Speaker 2: a friend and she had a ridiculous sighting as a
Speaker 2: child where she saw a UFO and then she saw
Speaker 2: like the Mitchellin man, like the Pillsbury dough boy, that
Speaker 2: this massive, inflatable child thing walking towards her. And I said, Jay,
Speaker 2: that is the closest that your mind can get to
Speaker 2: processing what you've actually seen, because it's so beyond you know,
Speaker 2: beyond anything you can actually mentally envisage. That that's the
Speaker 2: closest it can get, you know. So again, I think
Speaker 2: it's something which interacts, interacts with the psyche, which is
Speaker 2: what Javage talks about, where it's something which is actually
Speaker 2: connecting with us on a very prime ordial ego mental level,
Speaker 2: rather than just this straight nuts some balts black and
Speaker 2: white phenomenon, you know.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. I just there's really no definitive answer that
Speaker 3: I can come up with, and I'm I'm no expert
Speaker 3: in anything, but I just believe that there's something more
Speaker 3: out there. And I know that's weird for people to
Speaker 3: here in the sense that I don't try and put
Speaker 3: a religious aspect to it. I don't try and put
Speaker 3: any sort of paranormal aspect to it. I just feel
Speaker 3: like there's something and I don't know what it is,
Speaker 3: but there is something out there that compels me to
Speaker 3: do what I do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the same with me.
Speaker 2: People have said to me, you know, you'll bring a
Speaker 2: lot of heat on yourself, you bring a lot of
Speaker 2: blowback on yourself by actually talking about the human human aspect.
Speaker 2: And I just feel like I'm sort of kind of
Speaker 2: like compelled to do it. I've got no skin in
Speaker 2: the game, there's no I'm not making any money out
Speaker 2: of it. And then when I do punish the book,
Speaker 2: I don't expect it to I don't expect it to
Speaker 2: get rave reviews because obviously it's going against a lot
Speaker 2: of what the community think.
Speaker 4: Or say they think. But it just seems to be
Speaker 4: that there is.
Speaker 2: Something which has always always been a lot of euthologists
Speaker 2: are going down this road now they've turned away from
Speaker 2: the eth and they're saying, is there everything like like
Speaker 2: you say with the cryptids, bigfoot, long nest. What if
Speaker 2: it's all the same thing And it's just a question
Speaker 2: of our interpretation. But I have to go back and
Speaker 2: say that I think the interpretation is there is a
Speaker 2: manipulative aspect to it, where it presents itself. A metamorphos
Speaker 2: is based on what it thinks we want to see
Speaker 2: or expect to see.
Speaker 3: That's just again, that's kind of where I align with
Speaker 3: it too.
Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of euthologists make a lot of
Speaker 2: euthologists are the ones that those of us that have
Speaker 2: been in this been in the game for a long
Speaker 2: long time. We're all going down this path now where
Speaker 2: we're saying, it's not et h it's something a little bit.
Speaker 2: It's not out of space, it's in a space. It's
Speaker 2: a lot closer to home. And I like what John
Speaker 2: Keel says about the if you think of the old
Speaker 2: radio and you've got the needle on the radio, and
Speaker 2: you know, if you've got the needle slightly to the left,
Speaker 2: you you'll hear a little voice from another station. You know,
Speaker 2: if you interpreted that as being our own psyche or
Speaker 2: our own our own experience, it just seems to be
Speaker 2: that sometimes we do hear other channels, you know. And
Speaker 2: he says that if the if the needle were wider,
Speaker 2: then we'd see a lot more. Unfortunately, where we are,
Speaker 2: our spectrum is so tiny of what we experience.
Speaker 4: It just seems to be that what we call.
Speaker 2: The extraordinary now will just be the ordinary when we
Speaker 2: find out what's actually going on. And there's no such
Speaker 2: thing as the supernatural. It's just the natural. And we've
Speaker 2: had to put the super in it because we hadn't
Speaker 2: worked out what the other stuff is yet.
Speaker 3: We don't understand it yet, we.
Speaker 4: Don't understand it.
Speaker 2: I love what J and J and j Annen Heinek,
Speaker 2: who's the godfather, you know, together with with Jack Vye
Speaker 2: said when he was doing the when he was doing
Speaker 2: his studies, even if the U f the UFO problem,
Speaker 2: and I love the way he calls it a problem
Speaker 2: as well. He says, if the UFO problem, if the
Speaker 2: solution was presented to itself, if this, if the solution
Speaker 2: was presented to us today, black and white, we are
Speaker 2: not in a position where we'd even understand it. And
Speaker 2: I think because the phenomenon works on this level, this real,
Speaker 2: this deep psychological level. And the thing I said about
Speaker 2: the mother crops circle, it's so advanced, and it's so
Speaker 2: advanced that when we're not yet in a position within
Speaker 2: an evolution where we understand it. But I do think
Speaker 2: that our ancestors were I think they got to the
Speaker 2: point where we are and become super super, super advanced,
Speaker 2: and they're they're the key. You know, it's our ancestors,
Speaker 2: the pyramid builders, everything you're talking about, the Stonehenge builders,
Speaker 2: the Avery builders, that I think they were far more
Speaker 2: aware of this stuff than we are.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know if it's by design that we've
Speaker 3: been dumb down to it, but I feel like the
Speaker 3: old generations of people were more in tuned to what
Speaker 3: goes on around the world, and nowadays we're more involved
Speaker 3: with the technology aspect. It's kind of like we've lost
Speaker 3: what made as people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's people that brand and there's people saying that
Speaker 2: we've actually been at this stage before where we are
Speaker 2: now and further in terms of technology and technocratic you
Speaker 2: know things, and we've actually just gone back to the earth.
Speaker 2: We've gone back to the land, and we've gone back
Speaker 2: to spirituality and that's and that's where our there's an
Speaker 2: argument to say that our four bez you know, they've
Speaker 2: got they've got that they had the technology build this
Speaker 2: stuff is because they were far more technology advanced than
Speaker 2: we are now, but they chose to apply it to
Speaker 2: the land and their spirituality.
Speaker 4: Instead.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I know, I've talked with people and they can
Speaker 3: claim that they can explain how ancient people built things,
Speaker 3: and I'm not saying that they didn't. I know, the
Speaker 3: TV show Ancient Aliens wants to put everything that aliens
Speaker 3: came down here and influenced building of these ancient structures.
Speaker 4: But yeah, and our crop circles.
Speaker 3: Yet I don't necessarily agree with all of that, But
Speaker 3: I don't know. Like I said, I'm not an expert.
Speaker 3: There's just a lot of weird things out there, and
Speaker 3: for me personally, I just believe that it's all connected somehow,
Speaker 3: one way or the other. There's something that's influenced us
Speaker 3: to where we are today, and there's something that influences
Speaker 3: people to do what they do, and there's something that
Speaker 3: influences what people are reported seeing and experiencing.
Speaker 2: I just feel like it's all one and the same. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's nice that you can. If you go in
Speaker 2: no preconceptions, then that's the best way to go in,
Speaker 2: because if you go in and you're tainted with one worldview,
Speaker 2: or you've got one agenda or another a gender, you
Speaker 2: will mold everything towards that. If you go in with
Speaker 2: a clean mind and a clean slate. That's probably Sometimes
Speaker 2: it's nice to go in with a place of no
Speaker 2: knowledge and you might come back come out with more
Speaker 2: knowledge than somebody that knows a little bit more than
Speaker 2: you do, If that makes sense. It's a nice place
Speaker 2: to go in, to go in clean and to go
Speaker 2: in with no preconceptions.
Speaker 3: That is one of the things that I've been wanting
Speaker 3: to do is I try not to do a whole
Speaker 3: lot of research into a certain thing, especially if I'm
Speaker 3: looking into something I know that sounds like kind of productive.
Speaker 3: But like you just said, if I was going to
Speaker 3: go somewhere and investigate an area, I wouldn't want to
Speaker 3: go in there knowing full well like this is what's
Speaker 3: supposed to happen here, because then you're expecting it. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: are you going to get you want it because you
Speaker 3: don't get that experience, or are you going to manifest
Speaker 3: that experience because you think that's what's going to happen,
Speaker 3: so you manifested to happen.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The a varge I've got is that my missus isn't
Speaker 2: into any of this. She's not she's completely stoic, and
Speaker 2: she's completely doesn't believe anything that I believe. And it's
Speaker 2: really good to have her as like a nice anchor
Speaker 2: if you like, if I float too high, she she
Speaker 2: anchors be down. So it's really nice to be married
Speaker 2: to something like that, because where I would look into
Speaker 2: a situation and think, oh god, you know you're so
Speaker 2: deep into it, you're just seeing this, she will look
Speaker 2: at it objectively and I just a crazy situation. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is crazy. We had a situation once where a
Speaker 2: crup circle wanted to come out with me and sorry
Speaker 2: a novice, a fan wanted to come out a crop
Speaker 2: circle fan wanted to come out and make a circle.
Speaker 2: And I went out with the completely wrong intention. I
Speaker 2: went out with the intention just of ego and showing
Speaker 2: off and saying yeah, I can do it. It was
Speaker 2: a totally wrong motivation. There was no spirituality involved in it.
Speaker 2: It was really all about me and me me. It
Speaker 2: was a terrible decision. And we went out and we
Speaker 2: made the cub circle. And he was fast. He was
Speaker 2: a young kid. He was really quick, learnt really quickly.
Speaker 2: We got the whole thing done about an hour and
Speaker 2: a half and then at the end he said to me,
Speaker 2: can I just put my little signature on it, a
Speaker 2: little flourish at the end. I said, yeah, go for it.
Speaker 2: You've earned it. You know, you've done a great job tonight.
Speaker 2: But what he did was he just put this single
Speaker 2: flourish on the circle, which completely changed the aesthetics. So
Speaker 2: it went from being pleasant and good vibes to something
Speaker 2: really bad. It looked like a scorpion's tale or something
Speaker 2: like that. It looked really, really bad.
Speaker 4: And that was a lesson to me. I thought, that's
Speaker 4: what happens. Anyway. I got a high.
Speaker 2: And then I was taking my missus to work one day,
Speaker 2: and you know, you get those situations where you think,
Speaker 2: I'm drive him really carefully, but I'm going to have
Speaker 2: a crash because there's a bus come in that way,
Speaker 2: there's a kid running in the road, somebody's open their
Speaker 2: car door, there's a BOUNC symbol. It was like being
Speaker 2: in a video arcade go and I said to the message,
Speaker 2: I'm going to have a crash in the minute, even
Speaker 2: though I'm only going fifteen miles an hour. Anyway, I've
Speaker 2: dropped her off, and sure enough, sensor dropped her off.
Speaker 2: This bloke come careering out this driveway, crashed into my windscreen,
Speaker 2: smashed the windscreen, and I thought, I found the insurance
Speaker 2: people and they said to me, we can't get there
Speaker 2: until tomorrow. And I thought, well, I can't leave it
Speaker 2: because it's going to abandoned. And just by chance, I
Speaker 2: happened to have parked in front of this bloke who
Speaker 2: did windskin repairs.
Speaker 4: Anyway.
Speaker 2: He said I'll get you on the road for one
Speaker 2: hundred quid, so I said, I'll just do it. But
Speaker 2: he had those plunges. He had those suckers where you
Speaker 2: put them on the windscreen and then put them into
Speaker 2: the panel. But he was really bad at his job,
Speaker 2: and he was putting all these suckers wrong.
Speaker 4: Everything was really bad.
Speaker 2: And then he put he put the painting and then
Speaker 2: I drove off and I was transfixed by I looked
Speaker 2: at the wind screen and I went, no, you're being stupid.
Speaker 4: You're reading too much into it. It's not what you think.
Speaker 2: And then I picked up my wife from work and
Speaker 2: she just got in the car and she is, as
Speaker 2: I said, completely objective. She doesn't believe in any of
Speaker 2: this stuff. And she sat in the car. She so
Speaker 2: bolt upright and stared at the wind screen. She goes,
Speaker 2: what the hell is your crop circle doing on our
Speaker 2: wind screen, and it was exactly as this guy had
Speaker 2: done the suckers, and it was exactly with this little
Speaker 2: scorpion tailor as well. And I was that really freaked
Speaker 2: me out, you know that that.
Speaker 4: That was like a lesson as to what happens when
Speaker 4: you do it for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Weird question. But do you and her ever have a
Speaker 3: moment where you're thinking something and she will say it
Speaker 3: like literally, like within a few seconds afterwards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, of course. But Sheldrek calls that the
Speaker 2: species feel, doesn't he you know? And this is where
Speaker 2: this is the only thing I'm not sure about with
Speaker 2: this subject with with crop circles. I'm not sure if
Speaker 2: we are using that you know, dormant link that we
Speaker 2: don't know about that little telephone line or if this
Speaker 2: or if our telephone lines are connected to another exchange,
Speaker 2: you know, and and the stigmas being like triangulated.
Speaker 4: So of course I get it. Everybody gets it, you know.
Speaker 3: So that happens to me and my wife often, and
Speaker 3: it's a little creepy every now and then because I'm
Speaker 3: getting ready to say something and she says, at first,
Speaker 3: it's just like or reread my mind.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But as I said, I think in decades, hundreds
Speaker 2: of years to come, we won't be looking upon this
Speaker 2: stuff as being will look at these times and call
Speaker 2: them primitive and say, God, look at look how we
Speaker 2: were We thought this was paranormal.
Speaker 4: It's really normal, you know.
Speaker 2: I think it's because we are far less advanced than
Speaker 2: I mean, technologically we're advanced, but I think mentally and spiritually,
Speaker 2: you know, and in terms of accepting new paradigms and
Speaker 2: in terms of accepting new ideas, were cavemen.
Speaker 4: That's that's my opinion.
Speaker 3: Well, we've been going on for a little over an hour,
Speaker 3: so I figure we can get close to wrapping this
Speaker 3: one up before we do. Is there anything you would
Speaker 3: like to touch base on.
Speaker 2: All I'd say, Brandon is thanks for letting me speak today.
Speaker 2: And also to the people that among your listeners that
Speaker 2: are tearing your hair out saying you work for CIA
Speaker 2: or m I five or you're a disinformation.
Speaker 4: It's not the case.
Speaker 2: Even if you want to believe that some are done
Speaker 2: by ET or whatever. If you next time you look
Speaker 2: at a crop circle and you get in the mindset
Speaker 2: that it could be human, just think of it as
Speaker 2: being the humans are a component, and it's not a hoax.
Speaker 2: You know, if a crop circles made with intent or
Speaker 2: somebody's compelled to do it, it's not a hoax. There's
Speaker 2: something else going on. And if you want to look
Speaker 2: at my substack, which is it can't be people dot
Speaker 2: substack dot com. That's free to join, and I update
Speaker 2: every week or two weeks with a new account from
Speaker 2: a new crop circle maker that I've spoken to or
Speaker 2: one of my own experiences. And when I do interview
Speaker 2: crop circle makers, what's happening this is very encouraging, is
Speaker 2: that I can't use a lot of the stories now
Speaker 2: because I've got so many, and the same themes are
Speaker 2: recurring again and again. So I'm getting the same stories
Speaker 2: recurring again and again from new stories, which tells me that,
Speaker 2: you know, we're definitely onto something. And the reason why
Speaker 2: I call it it can't be people was because that
Speaker 2: when I walked into my first crop circle it was
Speaker 2: extremely complicated. I looked around and thought it people. But
Speaker 2: now I know that it is paopal, but there's something
Speaker 2: else that can't be people next to it.
Speaker 3: If that makes sense, No, I totally get it well, be.
Speaker 3: It has been a pleasure and it's been very informative.
Speaker 3: And I can't thank you enough for being a guest
Speaker 3: here today.
Speaker 2: That's an absolute pleasure. Keep in touch my friend to
Speaker 2: Kay Yep, you have a great day, and she my friend.
Speaker 3: Bye bye bye, Ian, Thanks for coming out here tonight.
Speaker 1: I talk with me anytime.
Speaker 3: Would you like to let the audience know a little
Speaker 3: bit about yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as you said, my name is Ian. I'm very
Speaker 1: interested in paranormal topics, probably because I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of weird things happen in my life. So I also
Speaker 1: have a background in science, so I kind of apply
Speaker 1: that methodology to understanding paranormal phenomenon And yeah, I have
Speaker 1: a bachelor's and masters in science. But now pretty much
Speaker 1: all that I think about is spooky. So glad to
Speaker 1: be here.
Speaker 3: Definitely glad to have you. So your email that you
Speaker 3: said to me talked about cattle mutilations. Is this something
Speaker 3: that you've always been interested in or is this something
Speaker 3: you just kind of started looking into recently.
Speaker 1: Well, it grabbed my attention just because you see it
Speaker 1: on YouTube. You see it on like Skinwalker Ranch type shows.
Speaker 1: Even Netflix had a series recently about it. Or a
Speaker 1: show about it, and it seems to be this like
Speaker 1: apparent phenomenon that's tangible and repeatable. So it's like a
Speaker 1: really obvious mystery. So it really grabbed my attention and
Speaker 1: I was like, this is something I could potentially solve
Speaker 1: because it's not as nebulous as like a typical like
Speaker 1: a ghost or something like that, where you can't there's
Speaker 1: no video. These are well documented, repeatable, global phenomena. So
Speaker 1: I was like, eventually, I think I'm going to be
Speaker 1: able to pick up on some patterns here, but it
Speaker 1: took a while.
Speaker 3: Well, if you want to dive into it, I will
Speaker 3: turn it over to you and we can listen to
Speaker 3: you about everything you've researched and what you've determined.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I would see these events and I didn't
Speaker 1: really know what to make of them. So I'm also
Speaker 1: really interested in archaeology. My background is like ecology, evolution,
Speaker 1: and behavior, so I'm really into wildlife and things like that.
Speaker 1: But that also kind of combined with an interest in
Speaker 1: like Stone Age hunting things like that up through the
Speaker 1: Native American times, especially in North America, so I'm fairly
Speaker 1: aware of what used to be here in North America,
Speaker 1: which is huge, vast herds of bison, So that's always
Speaker 1: kind of in the back of my mind, but I
Speaker 1: hadn't really applied it to this phenomenon cattle mutilations because
Speaker 1: it's not obviously connected. So over time, I'd just be
Speaker 1: sitting there chatting with like chat GPT and I'd be like, well,
Speaker 1: is there any correlation between where cattle mutilations and the
Speaker 1: bison used to exist? And immediately it has must have
Speaker 1: access to like bison maps and things. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we might have something here. And so then I get
Speaker 1: into this prolonged discussion with CHADGBT about Okay, how how
Speaker 1: well does this line up? And then I kind of
Speaker 1: switch from that. I go over to GROC and I'm
Speaker 1: asking it, okay, let's map the cattle mutilations relative to
Speaker 1: where the bison used to be, and then I start. Luckily,
Speaker 1: GROC will show you what it's doing, so you can
Speaker 1: see what mutilation events it's pulling up what you know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it'll just build in data that isn't actually based
Speaker 1: on anything, so you have to catch you doing that,
Speaker 1: and you also have to exclude the which I learned
Speaker 1: eventually the cattle mutilations that don't involve exanguination because these
Speaker 1: are not substantiated cases. So this is something that a
Speaker 1: human could do, like some guy in Southwest Washington gets
Speaker 1: his cowshot or something. This is not going to be
Speaker 1: representative of the overall phenomenon of cattle mutilations. So eventually
Speaker 1: I learned to filter out or filter for exanguination. And
Speaker 1: then when you apply that filter and you ask GROC
Speaker 1: to find the amount of over between cattle mutilations and
Speaker 1: the historic bison range, it can't find any that are
Speaker 1: outside of the bison range. And I've drove a map
Speaker 1: on my kitchen island. I've got this huge map and
Speaker 1: I put dots on it and I looked at it,
Speaker 1: and it's so precise. It'll go up to the edge
Speaker 1: of where the bison used to be and never cross.
Speaker 1: So the Stanford map, I use that in combination with
Speaker 1: a map put out by a scientist named Sanderson in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. And so there's there's data from
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties, nineteen nineties, and that's
Speaker 1: great for establishing this, but some of the newest data
Speaker 1: is some of the most striking because it's an Oregon
Speaker 1: between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty four, and the cattle
Speaker 1: mutilations all involved exsanguination. They're all east of where the
Speaker 1: bison used to be, so they're all in the eastern
Speaker 1: fifty percent of Oregon which used to have bison because
Speaker 1: historically the bison didn't go past the Cascade Range onto
Speaker 1: the west coast. So all of it lines up with
Speaker 1: this pattern, even though there are cattle raised across the
Speaker 1: entire state, and if you go one state to the
Speaker 1: north into Washington, almost none of it had bison historically
Speaker 1: and there are no mutilations there. And you can do
Speaker 1: this state by state. There's another border case down in Chihua, Mexico,
Speaker 1: where this is about the southwest extent of any known
Speaker 1: exhanguination cases, and there's a dot right there where the
Speaker 1: bison range bison range ends and the exanguination occurred. Same
Speaker 1: in Ocalla, Florida, it's right there in another edge case
Speaker 1: where the exhanguination event occurred and the bison range ended.
Speaker 1: So it's it's over and over, it's repeatable. It goes
Speaker 1: all the way up into into Canada, where you have
Speaker 1: zero mutilations in the provinces that didn't historically have bison,
Speaker 1: so Manitoba, Quebec, Ontario, and probably British Columbia, although there's
Speaker 1: some different kind of reports on that. I want to
Speaker 1: research that more tons of cattle in these areas zero mutilations,
Speaker 1: and also very little bison territory, especially Ontario and Quebec.
Speaker 1: Manitoba had a bit, but no mutilations there. In Saskatchewan,
Speaker 1: about half of it we think had bison, they have
Speaker 1: also had mutilations, and every single one of those mutilations
Speaker 1: happened where bison territory used to be. And you go
Speaker 1: another province over to Alberta, which had the greatest number
Speaker 1: of bison historically in some of the last remaining herds,
Speaker 1: it has the most cattle mutilations. So I mean, the
Speaker 1: correlation is striking. Speculation is absolutely delicious, and when you
Speaker 1: get a pattern like this, but I'm not stuck on
Speaker 1: any particular explanation, but the pattern itself is remarkable. So
Speaker 1: then I took that, I wrote an essay up about it,
Speaker 1: and then I started looking globally because mutilations have occurred globally,
Speaker 1: and you start seeing a pattern merge in Argentina and
Speaker 1: Brazil and the UK, excuse me, and Australia as well
Speaker 1: as France, you've had mutilations. What has happened in each
Speaker 1: of these places has been this cultural replacement of a
Speaker 1: hunter prey relationship that extended deep into the past. So
Speaker 1: there was this tradition of hunter and prey that was
Speaker 1: replaced by a domestic animal. When that occurs, you can
Speaker 1: predict every single time that that domesticated animal will experience
Speaker 1: some rate of mutilation. And it seems to be dependent
Speaker 1: also on how rapidly that culture is severed and replaced,
Speaker 1: because in the UK it was a slower process where
Speaker 1: the Gales and the Celtics were displaced by the Anglo
Speaker 1: Saxons and the Normans, and they've had fewer mutilations. It
Speaker 1: was like sheep, but not as many. However, if it's
Speaker 1: rapid and extreme, you get way more like the Guanaco
Speaker 1: that were wiped out drastically reduced in southern Argentina as
Speaker 1: recently as last year. Lots of cattle mutilations in that
Speaker 1: area because that's the species that was brought in by
Speaker 1: the Spanish to replace the Guanaco. And there's a lot
Speaker 1: more details involved here. There was an outlier case in
Speaker 1: southern Brazil that I was having difficulty fitting into this
Speaker 1: model of deep historic hunter prey relationship gets severed, replaced
Speaker 1: by domesticated animal, domesticated animal gets mutilated because there was
Speaker 1: a human that was exanguinated in nineteen eighty eight and
Speaker 1: southern Brazil. So I started, I was like, wonder, how
Speaker 1: do I fit this into the theory. Well, I end
Speaker 1: up learning that the two p people which is spelled Tupi,
Speaker 1: were cannibals and they would hunt other tribes. Of these
Speaker 1: of two P people, they would they would hunt each
Speaker 1: other and bring them in as captives then eventually cannibalize them.
Speaker 1: When the Portuguese arrived, they ended up getting cannibalized as
Speaker 1: well by these indigenous tries. And so perhaps to this phenomenon,
Speaker 1: the Portuguese people represented the domesticated livestock. So that might
Speaker 1: be how this fits in, because they've also had cattle
Speaker 1: and sheep mutilations in that same area. So it's the
Speaker 1: fact that every time mutilations occur involving exanguination. That's the key.
Speaker 1: You can't just look up mutilations in general. It has
Speaker 1: to involve this bloodless aspect because that's so it just
Speaker 1: cannot be done. It's the most impossible thing about these
Speaker 1: although these events have this kind of overarching impossibility about them,
Speaker 1: and I think that's worth actually getting into a little
Speaker 1: bit more because the events themselves, I think have been
Speaker 1: grossly misinterpreted. I think it's clearly like an artistic display,
Speaker 1: it's meant to shock, it's meant to be noticed, it's
Speaker 1: meant to be remembered, and that explains the characteristics. So
Speaker 1: the exclusion of coyotes and and bugs and things like that,
Speaker 1: that's to make sure the artwork, if you want to
Speaker 1: call it that, is not disturbed. That's that's to make
Speaker 1: sure that everything that's been done there is not messed up.
Speaker 1: There's no there's no gray areas about what's going on here.
Speaker 1: The how it's been produced is maintained for the visual
Speaker 1: Ranchers have reported feeling the need to go out and
Speaker 1: see these exanguinated cattle. They feel like strangely compelled to
Speaker 1: go out and see them, and they can't explain it.
Speaker 1: So it's it's literally pulling. Whatever's doing this is pulling
Speaker 1: randers outside to find and then they have lights actually
Speaker 1: guiding them in the sky. They are being conjured somehow,
Speaker 1: ranchers report seeing lights. These lights are basically like lures
Speaker 1: saying here, this is this is why I want you
Speaker 1: to come see this, and this is uh yeah, so
Speaker 1: these are these are the patterns I've noticed. It's an
Speaker 1: extremely kind of dark phenomenon. But the fact that it's
Speaker 1: so predictable and tied to these historical events where a
Speaker 1: hunter prey relationship is severed and replaced by domestic livestock
Speaker 1: is fascinating to me. Because it's so predictable, there's some
Speaker 1: situations where you might think, well, why didn't it happen
Speaker 1: in maybe New Zealand where the Miori were displaced and colonized.
Speaker 1: The one possibility there is that they didn't have a
Speaker 1: set cultural animal that they were. They kept switching kind
Speaker 1: of between praise species. That's one possibility, So it didn't
Speaker 1: kind of have this ecological resonance over time. It's one explanation.
Speaker 1: Who knows. I mean, the fact that this pattern is
Speaker 1: largely consistent across the entire globe is I think striking
Speaker 1: to me. And just the distribution of mutilations in North America,
Speaker 1: how it follows the historic bison territory is remarkable, and
Speaker 1: other theories just don't work for this. If you go
Speaker 1: through the list of different theories like aliens et cetera,
Speaker 1: I don't there's no reason why aliens would follow these
Speaker 1: historic areas where hunting was occurringsistently for this long. There's
Speaker 1: no motivation there. Why would they be following that? Why
Speaker 1: wouldn't they go just elsewhere and do whatever? Not to
Speaker 1: mention the fact that it's clearly performative, the way the
Speaker 1: skin is removed from around the teeth creates this absolute
Speaker 1: just vile like facial expression on the victim, whether it's
Speaker 1: human or a cattle or a horse in France, which
Speaker 1: which occurs in France. Yeah, So these deeply historic relationships
Speaker 1: between humans and their prey species, whether it's the Celtics
Speaker 1: that are hunting the oric and the red deer, or
Speaker 1: the Aborigines and the wallaby, the emu and the kangaroo,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, If there's deep time associated with that
Speaker 1: hunter prey relationship and it gets severed rapidly and replaced
Speaker 1: by a domesticated species, that domesticated species gets targeted by
Speaker 1: this mutilating phenomenon, whatever it might be, I lean toward
Speaker 1: it more of a spiritual than a corporeal entity, just
Speaker 1: because the amount of perfection an undetected operation is just
Speaker 1: inexplicable given something with human limitations. It couldn't it could
Speaker 1: not be accomplished, not for sixty seventy years, and however
Speaker 1: long this phenomenon has been operating, which might actually extend
Speaker 1: deep into history as well. And that's so, that's about
Speaker 1: as far as I've taken it. I keep researching it
Speaker 1: and wondering about it's you know, where might we predict
Speaker 1: that it would happen next? Where might we see this
Speaker 1: actually in history books? Maybe with the Aztecs, if they're
Speaker 1: doing sacrifices, maybe this is because they saw mutilated animals
Speaker 1: and they thought maybe this was a god telling them
Speaker 1: to that this is what it wanted, and so that
Speaker 1: was their reaction, even though it's not what the god wanted.
Speaker 1: What the god wanted was nature to be operating in
Speaker 1: the more natural hunter prey relationship, and they were maybe
Speaker 1: causing too much ecological disruption. Who knows, It's just I
Speaker 1: think I think this is about as close as I've
Speaker 1: gotten to fully understanding it.
Speaker 3: The one thing that I always thought was interesting is
Speaker 3: the Noe blood and I've seen skeptics say, well, the
Speaker 3: kill site was somewhere else and they drained the blood
Speaker 3: and this whatever. But that is the one thing that's
Speaker 3: always stood out to me, is like the surgical precision
Speaker 3: of the dissection of the animal. Like of the cattle,
Speaker 3: there's no blood, there's certain things cut completely, Like it's
Speaker 3: too perfect in a sense that some farmer went out
Speaker 3: there and did this, or some jokes or went out
Speaker 3: there and did this. Someone had to do know, like
Speaker 3: they had to know what they were doing to try
Speaker 3: and come out and do this. It's just not something
Speaker 3: that someone goes out there and does. Now, with your
Speaker 3: research and from what you're talking about, what do you
Speaker 3: where do you think all this stuff is good? Like
Speaker 3: what is the purpose of this? You have any idea
Speaker 3: like where the blood goes, what they're using it for,
Speaker 3: what they're doing the mutilations for other You said something
Speaker 3: about artwork showing it off. But it also brings up
Speaker 3: the question of who and what is actually doing this.
Speaker 3: I know that's the question everyone wants to ask. They
Speaker 3: think it's aliens. I think it's that in your opinion,
Speaker 3: Like what do you think all this is about?
Speaker 1: Yeah, if it's time to speculate. Then I first I
Speaker 1: leaned into the kind of the mother nature aspect, And
Speaker 1: at first it's very normal to think, Okay, the blood
Speaker 1: is being used for something, the organs are being used
Speaker 1: for something. But I think it's much more of a
Speaker 1: mirror to how it whatever it is, and I don't
Speaker 1: think it's a corporeal and I think it's more in
Speaker 1: the spiritual realm, and we can get into that. I
Speaker 1: think it's more so mirroring how it sees us using
Speaker 1: domesticated livestock. So we have this impersonal, cold industrial relationship
Speaker 1: with livestock, and then it mirrors that back to us
Speaker 1: by exanguinating them by perfectly carving them up with symmetrical
Speaker 1: like eye sockets and disemboweling and leaving no trace. It's cold,
Speaker 1: it's calculated, it's impersonal, and I think it's also trying
Speaker 1: to convince us that this is not being done. By
Speaker 1: the fact that anybody even entertains the possibility that's being
Speaker 1: done by people means I haven't seen these because ranchers
Speaker 1: don't talk like that. Ranchers don't come away saying, you know,
Speaker 1: who was in my field? They don't say that. Maybe
Speaker 1: the FBI in nineteen seventy nine, you know, starts talking
Speaker 1: about that kind of thing, but the FBI can't talk
Speaker 1: about things in the spiritual realm having these effects that
Speaker 1: they lose their jobs or it's just not something that's
Speaker 1: not a language they can use. So I'm really open
Speaker 1: to anything that could behave perfectly. And I mean I
Speaker 1: have a history of being a pretty much strict materialist
Speaker 1: into science. I was the kid in high school that's
Speaker 1: arguing with everybody that there's no God. But as time
Speaker 1: has gone on and I've accumulated experiences, I've had so
Speaker 1: many weird things happen, ghosts and synchronicities and sleep paralysis,
Speaker 1: et cetera, that there's just I don't think there's any
Speaker 1: limit to what could possibly happen. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: quotes about reality is it's not just stranger than we
Speaker 1: think it is, it's stranger than we can think it is.
Speaker 1: So I think it's important to remain open to any possibilities,
Speaker 1: especially when the evidence repeats over and over and over
Speaker 1: again with these impossible events, like you said, the exanguination,
Speaker 1: we're not finding drops of blood anywhere. They might try
Speaker 1: to say in nineteen seventy nine, in an Arkansas study
Speaker 1: that the ground can absorb what eight to ten gallons
Speaker 1: of blood. That's absurd, It's ridiculous. Any brancher knows what
Speaker 1: a dead cow that's been in a field for a
Speaker 1: while looks like, and they are shocked for a reason
Speaker 1: when they find these sanguine animals. It doesn't look like
Speaker 1: an animal that has been naturally rotting in a field.
Speaker 1: It's it's a completely different phenomenon. You have to trust
Speaker 1: the ranchers and their experience with these with these systems,
Speaker 1: they're the ones who know. And they're also not that
Speaker 1: they're not motivated to like make up a story to
Speaker 1: protect their no pun intended to protect their hide. So
Speaker 1: if I'm if I'm speculating wildly, I mean at first
Speaker 1: I was almost I was like calling it the phantom
Speaker 1: because like it's like a phantom presence that's doing this.
Speaker 1: But I think it's it's like more of a message
Speaker 1: from the great beyond the even like the realm of
Speaker 1: the gods. It's a message of look what you've done
Speaker 1: in nature. I'm going to show you how you treat
Speaker 1: nature by treating your replacement species with absolute disrespect. Because
Speaker 1: they this entity feels disrespected. It feels that the land
Speaker 1: has been totally like destroyed basically from what it was
Speaker 1: supposed to how it was supposed to operate. And I
Speaker 1: know it sounds ridiculous, we've tainted it.
Speaker 3: It's basically like we've tainted the land. We've brought in
Speaker 3: different species to replace the natural ones that were there
Speaker 3: with invading species. Yes, I've talked to some people recently,
Speaker 3: and anyone that listens to my show, they know what
Speaker 3: I say when it comes to certain things. But I
Speaker 3: think a lot of this phenomenon that happens is all
Speaker 3: somehow connected. People see ghost people see these cryptid creatures,
Speaker 3: they see aliens. Some people get spiritual on it and
Speaker 3: call them religious icon like demons or something like that,
Speaker 3: or I don't know what they are. I just feel
Speaker 3: like almost everything that we encounter is probably connected somehow,
Speaker 3: and I don't know how to determine where they're from
Speaker 3: or what they are other than I just feel like
Speaker 3: all this stuff is somehow connected.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. I feel like one of the deepest insights
Speaker 1: I've ever had in my life is the sense that
Speaker 1: that everything is connected. And then there's a lot of
Speaker 1: agreement with that and classic philosophies and other religions that
Speaker 1: there's no the illusion of separation is just that that
Speaker 1: there there is no separation. Oddly and maybe even striking
Speaker 1: to me, after I fumbled upon this pattern of bison
Speaker 1: range and mutilations, I started having synchronicities, like every day
Speaker 1: I'd get these really weird coincidences. The first was I
Speaker 1: pulled up like I was getting close to a gas
Speaker 1: station and go like get tea or something, and this
Speaker 1: van pulls in front of me and the back of
Speaker 1: it says, you're building the future. We're here to help.
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, well this seems like a message.
Speaker 1: But another day passes and I and I don't know
Speaker 1: where any of these discoveries are going to go, and
Speaker 1: a van pulls up in front of me, and because
Speaker 1: I've been thinking I'm just gonna I'm gonna quit, I'm
Speaker 1: not even gonna talk about this stuff any more, this
Speaker 1: van pulls up in front of me and says no excuses,
Speaker 1: and I was like, jeez, Louise. And then I finally
Speaker 1: post a little video on my YouTube channel, and I
Speaker 1: go walking to the gas station again to get tea,
Speaker 1: and I hear a lady tell her friend on the porch.
Speaker 1: You figured it out, yay, But they're just talking to
Speaker 1: each other. But I'm like, you're gonna say that right
Speaker 1: when I walk past after I I might have just
Speaker 1: stumbled upon this pattern that might have some explanatory powers.
Speaker 1: The synchronosity is sort of accumulating. You just feel like something's
Speaker 1: going on. And I actually wrote an essay before any
Speaker 1: of this happened. There's like twenty five hundred words about
Speaker 1: all the synchronicities I've ever had, and it's trying to
Speaker 1: explain them because I try to pick them apart from
Speaker 1: both sides of just inevitability or or some sort of
Speaker 1: actual communication from an intelligence, because they always they seem
Speaker 1: like that, they seem like they're they're communication, And I
Speaker 1: think cattle mutilations are the sign of an active intelligence.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've thought about the possibility that it's
Speaker 1: like a spasm of nature, and when nature's violated, it's
Speaker 1: kind of spasms in this way, and it's involuntary, but
Speaker 1: the specificity and the perfection involved, and like the Bison
Speaker 1: range mapping, I mean that the way it occurs is
Speaker 1: deeply cautious, like it knows what it's doing. Whatever it is,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't make mistakes, and then it makes sure
Speaker 1: what it's done is seen. So I think there's evidence
Speaker 1: of consciousness behind it, but I don't think it's corporeal
Speaker 1: or even alien.
Speaker 3: There is something that people have been experiencing it. It was
Speaker 3: one of the first episodes I had done, and it's
Speaker 3: like a design like these red they've been called like
Speaker 3: the red grid mark phenomena, and people find these red
Speaker 3: splotches or designs on their skin and they show up randomly.
Speaker 3: They don't know where they come from. Then they go away.
Speaker 3: But when people have them, sometimes they report seeing like
Speaker 3: they're not seen, but having vivid dreams, basically like really
Speaker 3: loocid dreaming. They've had them on their heads, they've have
Speaker 3: on their back, on their wrist, and the person that
Speaker 3: I talked to about it, they seem like they're done intelligently,
Speaker 3: like it's like something that's trying to communicate and wants
Speaker 3: you to know. And when you're talking about the cattle mutilations,
Speaker 3: it reminds me of that, like something's trying to communicate.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying they're connected, but at the same time,
Speaker 3: I think everything's connected one way or the other. So
Speaker 3: is this something out there trying to show itself to us?
Speaker 3: People talk like with the crop circles. Now most people
Speaker 3: think crop circles are made by humans. I think they
Speaker 3: mostly probably are, but what about the ones that maybe aren't.
Speaker 3: Is something trying to communicate?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's totally possible. I had, actually, and
Speaker 1: maybe just because I'm hyper aware of all these things,
Speaker 1: I had actually a red dot had appeared on my
Speaker 1: right knee that I'd never seen before until the past
Speaker 1: week or so. So I've had the exact say, it's tiny,
Speaker 1: but the fact that I noticed it means I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have gone without noticing it
Speaker 1: in the past since it's short season, But so I
Speaker 1: have I've got a red dot, So I got the
Speaker 1: same thing going on, And yeah, it's it's interesting when
Speaker 1: you when you think about these things as communications, because
Speaker 1: I even puzzled over the fact that if it is
Speaker 1: trying to tell us something, could it be like clearer,
Speaker 1: could it be more obvious, like spell it out, like
Speaker 1: just write it in words, or have somebody have a vision.
Speaker 1: And then there's there's different kind of ways of thinking
Speaker 1: around that. Why isn't it a more obvious communication from
Speaker 1: this entity, and I don't know. It's almost like it
Speaker 1: needs us to figure things out for ourselves so that
Speaker 1: the solution is more meaningful and has more staying power.
Speaker 1: And if it just tells us things, I mean, people
Speaker 1: probably just have mass area or they wouldn't even be believed.
Speaker 1: So it has to lay clues and then it gets
Speaker 1: figured out, and then the impact could be could be
Speaker 1: known as opposed to somebody who's like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: the gods were talking to me last night, and you
Speaker 1: know I couldn't start the podcast that way, So yeah,
Speaker 1: it could be that that's how it goes. But this
Speaker 1: is a mysterious realm, just kind of like the rest
Speaker 1: of reality, so it's unknown, but it does seem to
Speaker 1: be a communication, and it's not a pleasant one. It
Speaker 1: seems to be upset with something that's happened in that
Speaker 1: space to upset the natural balance, and it's showing a
Speaker 1: certain measure of wrath and perfection. I don't necessarily like
Speaker 1: think it's a specific like I don't. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to say it's God or I'm not going to say
Speaker 1: it's a specific thing. I'd hesitate to put a label
Speaker 1: on it. But I was just talking to a friend
Speaker 1: today and the characteristics of cattle mutilations actually line up
Speaker 1: perfectly with Artemis, the Greek god of the goddess of
Speaker 1: the hunt, the perfectionism, the wrath, the interest in the
Speaker 1: hunt itself, so she would have motive. Not saying that's
Speaker 1: where I'm leaning. I'm really just having fun with speculation,
Speaker 1: but the fact that it lines up so perfectly is
Speaker 1: interesting and interesting is about as far as I can
Speaker 1: go with this, because the patterns are there and I
Speaker 1: can substantiate those, and then the speculation about what's doing
Speaker 1: it is I think always going to elude me. But
Speaker 1: it's fun to think about.
Speaker 3: You'd mentioned like your interest in like paranormal and supernatural elements.
Speaker 3: Is there something that's you've experienced prior to this? There's
Speaker 3: a method to my madness. Usually people that go into
Speaker 3: looking into things like this had some sort of event
Speaker 3: that happened to them when they were young.
Speaker 1: The numerous stuff, and really it didn't really start cooking
Speaker 1: until after my dad passed about twelve years ago. And
Speaker 1: then after that it was sleep paralysis, which I wrote
Speaker 1: an essay about. It was synchronicities that were hard to
Speaker 1: shake off that they make you think that the way
Speaker 1: reality operates is different than you ever thought before. So
Speaker 1: I don't know if you want me going into anecdotes,
Speaker 1: but I definitely could yet. Yeah, I was, So I was.
Speaker 1: I went back to the zoo. I live in Omaha,
Speaker 1: and the zoo here's great, and I had a job
Speaker 1: there doing overnight tours. And I had a history of
Speaker 1: just quitting every job. I'd start a job, I'd quit
Speaker 1: it because eventually I just didn't want to be controlled
Speaker 1: by it, even if I liked it. And I liked
Speaker 1: the overnight tour job at the zoo was fun, and
Speaker 1: so I tried to go get the job back. And
Speaker 1: I was leaving the zoo from trying to get the
Speaker 1: job back, and I saw a great cavalier drive by
Speaker 1: on the left and I was like, okay, interesting, and
Speaker 1: then a gray trash can rolls into the street on
Speaker 1: the right and I had to avoid it. I was like, weird,
Speaker 1: the great cavalier gets my attention, and then a great
Speaker 1: trash can rolls in from the opposite side of the street,
Speaker 1: so I was like, okay, well, maybe it's nothing. A
Speaker 1: few cars later, another gray cavalier drives by on the left,
Speaker 1: side of the street, and for some reason, I just
Speaker 1: knew the pattern wasn't done. So I went over. I
Speaker 1: visited my mom's house and I told her I'm in
Speaker 1: the midst of some sort of interesting pattern here. And
Speaker 1: if we go, if we take the dogs for a walk,
Speaker 1: we will see a great cavalier. And I guarantee you
Speaker 1: we'll see great cavalier. It's going to happen. The first
Speaker 1: car we see on the walk was a great Cavalier
Speaker 1: and that just then I had to kind of just
Speaker 1: shift my whole idea, my paradigm about how I thought
Speaker 1: reality operated, because that seemed so clear, and I knew
Speaker 1: that it was coming like I knew, And there's so
Speaker 1: many there's so many other things. The sleep paralysis events
Speaker 1: were notable. They only happened really in this kind of
Speaker 1: tumultuous part of my life was partying, going crazy, doing
Speaker 1: all this stuff. So again, the story involves my mom's house,
Speaker 1: which has a history of kind of some a couple
Speaker 1: families where it was kind of spooky. The first family,
Speaker 1: they were Christian scientists that had a kid pass away
Speaker 1: because they wouldn't give him medicine and he was involved
Speaker 1: in like a fall et cetera. And then the second family,
Speaker 1: there's a psychologist who would have his patients meet at
Speaker 1: the back door and they take them to the basement
Speaker 1: for the for whatever treatments they were having. And this
Speaker 1: house was built in nineteen twenty eight, so the stage
Speaker 1: is set for this house to have all sorts of activity,
Speaker 1: not to mention the fact that my dad passed away
Speaker 1: here with als in twenty thirteen. So anyway, the first
Speaker 1: time I had sleep proalysis in the basement, I was
Speaker 1: laying on my back and I felt this weight crawl
Speaker 1: up my feet, and you know, you're conscious. You think
Speaker 1: your eyes are open. I think some studies have shown
Speaker 1: that your eyes aren't actually open, but you definitely feel
Speaker 1: like you're seeing the room and you can't move. And
Speaker 1: this thing was crawling up my legs into eventually sitting
Speaker 1: on my chest like the famous painting about sleep prolyss
Speaker 1: is the name of it. Escapes me now, So I
Speaker 1: get curious about these things. So I go back to
Speaker 1: the basement and I lay down on my right side.
Speaker 1: I was like, wellt's see if this will happen if
Speaker 1: I'm not laying on my back, because I think this
Speaker 1: might be associated with that this thing comes back, whatever
Speaker 1: it is crawls up my left side and his is
Speaker 1: in my ear, and I just tried to maintain my composure.
Speaker 1: I was like, not real, not real, not paying attention
Speaker 1: to you, whatever, And so I thought. I left the
Speaker 1: basement that day thinking I won. You know, this is,
Speaker 1: I got it cooked. I mean, this is it's not
Speaker 1: going to mess with me. I'm too brave and I'm
Speaker 1: too cool. So another time, I'm upstairs at the same
Speaker 1: house and I fall asleep on the couch on my
Speaker 1: I think it was left side this time, maybe right side,
Speaker 1: but it was on my side because it's a couch.
Speaker 1: And I wake up and frozen again, and there's a
Speaker 1: tornado of black smoke by this grandfather clock by the
Speaker 1: front door. Tornado of black smoke, and it sounds like
Speaker 1: a freight train, and all I can do is shift
Speaker 1: my eyes and look at it. I'm just like what
Speaker 1: is this and just terrified. And then in a flash,
Speaker 1: it's next to me, and it sounds like the universe
Speaker 1: is like fragmenting. It's the loudest thing I can imagine.
Speaker 1: And then you eventually snap out of it, and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: how do I like the rest of the day just
Speaker 1: seems spooky. But then I finally start getting my act together.
Speaker 1: I stop partying this and that, and I have one
Speaker 1: final sleep paralysis where I wake up I'm frozen, but
Speaker 1: there's no terror, and this being, it looks like it's
Speaker 1: made of black and blue, dark kind of slightly shimmering pixels,
Speaker 1: walks by my bed and all I can do is
Speaker 1: look at it, and this thing smiles at me. It
Speaker 1: looks like a shadow of pixels, and then it's gone,
Speaker 1: and I've never had sleep paralysis again since then. So
Speaker 1: those events, while they have some sort of like precedent
Speaker 1: in the literature psychological stuff, some people wouldn't say that's
Speaker 1: not paranormal. When you've had it happen, it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: super normal. It's like the nexus, the combination, the overlap
Speaker 1: between normal and like tangibly paranormal. So there was that.
Speaker 1: I mean, the list is long of anecdotes. I heard
Speaker 1: my dad's voice clearly in my left ear once when
Speaker 1: I was in kind of this hypnogogic state of like
Speaker 1: almost falling asleep. And then my mom came upstairs after
Speaker 1: I'd heard him, say get ready to talk, and then
Speaker 1: she said did you say something from downstairs? So she
Speaker 1: had heard something. I don't know if I think she
Speaker 1: said it sounded like me. I wasn't talking. I'd heard
Speaker 1: my dad clear as day in my left ear, his
Speaker 1: voice after he had passed away, say get ready to talk,
Speaker 1: no doubt. And then tons of psychic stuff like there
Speaker 1: was a time in the same house, and I've had
Speaker 1: things elsewhere, but this is the same house from nineteen
Speaker 1: twenty eight. That's what it was made. I was in
Speaker 1: the kid and I heard a woman laugh, and for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, I really wanted to know, Okay, where did
Speaker 1: that come from? I knew it wasn't my sister or
Speaker 1: my mom. I was like, where was that? So I
Speaker 1: was like, rewind the TV. Maybe it was Hillary Clinton,
Speaker 1: maybe it was something. It was something on TV. Nope,
Speaker 1: we played the TV. It wasn't that. And eventually my
Speaker 1: sister comes in from outside, sits down, plays a Snapchat
Speaker 1: video on her phone and it's the same laugh that
Speaker 1: I had heard in the kitchen. So all of these events,
Speaker 1: the continued synchronicities, the things lining up. Just the other day,
Speaker 1: Just the other day, I was at Walmart and I
Speaker 1: was getting a white Monster, which are highly addictive. I
Speaker 1: love them, but I gotta stop. I knew when I
Speaker 1: put it on the conveyor belt at Walmart it was
Speaker 1: going to fall over. There was no doubt.
Speaker 3: In my mind.
Speaker 1: It was guarantee, not because it was unstable. I just
Speaker 1: knew it was going to fall over, so I set
Speaker 1: it down. It's not, you know, unstable or anything. It's
Speaker 1: not even move And the guy he can't get my
Speaker 1: eggs to scan. He's just moving them all around. He's
Speaker 1: trying to find the barcode. It's just not happening. His
Speaker 1: right arm bumps into my groceries and creates this chain
Speaker 1: reaction that eventually knocks over the monster can. And I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, well, I guess I just have to
Speaker 1: live with these kind of things because they it just
Speaker 1: happens to me whatever. I think these are probably more
Speaker 1: common than a lot of people might say, because they
Speaker 1: don't get discussed. They're so strange people. They fear the backlash.
Speaker 1: Just like the same reason the FBI wasn't going to say,
Speaker 1: we think this might be mother nature itself, you know,
Speaker 1: sanguinating cows. They're going to say it's coyotes or whatever,
Speaker 1: because they just can't talk like that when I was
Speaker 1: actually a science teacher for a while. Not anymore. I'm
Speaker 1: doing other things. But I started a club for kids.
Speaker 1: I call it Paranormal Society, and we would get together
Speaker 1: and would have a week where we talked about dreams
Speaker 1: or lucid dreams. We'd have a week when we talk
Speaker 1: about ghosts, or we'd have a holiday party around Christmas
Speaker 1: time where we watch the X Files episode with Christmas
Speaker 1: when they're there in the Haunted House. And I was
Speaker 1: surprised by how many kids had never had eggnog before.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just think things like that. It brings
Speaker 1: these experiences to the four where like otherwise, kids wouldn't
Speaker 1: feel like they could even talk about this stuff, because
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have these events, but
Speaker 1: they just don't feel like they can talk about them.
Speaker 1: It's just too strange, or they just discount them, they
Speaker 1: forget about them. But I think it's some of the
Speaker 1: coolest stuff that happens to anybody because it kind of
Speaker 1: makes you finally believe that maybe reality like magic is possible.
Speaker 1: You don't it's not all just simple physics or what
Speaker 1: you would assume. It's just it absolutely erases boredom because
Speaker 1: now reality is without bounds, anything could happen. So that's
Speaker 1: that's why I developed an interest in all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And now my bookshelves are full of paranormal books, some
Speaker 1: psychic photography. I've got the dousing riots. I do taro.
Speaker 1: If I'm just when I'm feeling it, I'll do something
Speaker 1: like pull a card or something. But then I'm also
Speaker 1: reading about physics and mathematics and stuff, so I keep it.
Speaker 1: I'm always I would say my philosophy in general is
Speaker 1: that I'm an observationalist. I just want to see what
Speaker 1: nature can do, what does it do, and then go
Speaker 1: from there, as opposed to assuming what nature's limitations are
Speaker 1: and then operating that way, which unfortunately seems like what
Speaker 1: a lot of science is based on. Where we start
Speaker 1: with this assumption, we limit nature, we put it into
Speaker 1: a box, and then we just search within that box.
Speaker 1: But it's we don't even have a good explanation for
Speaker 1: why reality exists at all, So stop putting limitations on
Speaker 1: it and be open to open to experiencing might be
Speaker 1: surprised what happens. Yeah, and the next thing I wanted
Speaker 1: to study is imaginary friends. Like a lot of kids
Speaker 1: grow up and they have imaginary friends, and I was
Speaker 1: since I substitute teach, I was going to start like
Speaker 1: conducting interviews, probably with like sixth grade and older, because
Speaker 1: it just keeps things simple. But ask them if they
Speaker 1: remember having an imaginary friend, did they did they learn anything,
Speaker 1: did it talk? Do they remember what it looked like?
Speaker 1: Is there some common ground where it's a certain type
Speaker 1: of individual that people remember. I think my niece had
Speaker 1: an imaginary friend that was an old man, and we'd
Speaker 1: wonder was it my dad? Is my dad there with her?
Speaker 1: We don't know, but it's interesting all of these little
Speaker 1: phenomena that occur, and including aliens, even though I don't
Speaker 1: think aliens are or maybe what's happening with cattle mutilations,
Speaker 1: it's absolutely a phenomenon that's that's worth exploring. I just
Speaker 1: I really haven't had my alien experience yet. I don't
Speaker 1: think so. Synchronicity's ghosts, precognitive stuff, all the accounts of
Speaker 1: cattle mutilations. That's kind of where I focus now, But
Speaker 1: who knows what the future holds.
Speaker 3: I talked to someone before, I think it was a
Speaker 3: couple of years ago now that they were also a teacher,
Speaker 3: and they did a group the focused on paranormal stuff.
Speaker 3: But while I was in school, I would have loved
Speaker 3: something like that to happen, but we didn't have anything
Speaker 3: back then. But you're right when you mentioned a lot
Speaker 3: of people don't get to talk about it, because that's
Speaker 3: the reason I do this show is because people have
Speaker 3: experiences and we don't get a chance to talk about
Speaker 3: it because there's still that stigma out there. You talk
Speaker 3: about certain things, people think you're crazy. And I know
Speaker 3: some people, you know what, maybe they are. I'm not
Speaker 3: going to go out and say that some people aren't crazy,
Speaker 3: because obviously there's going to be somebody out there that
Speaker 3: kind of is. But yeah, not everyone is crazy. Like
Speaker 3: people experience something, they're seeing something, they're having these experiences.
Speaker 3: Sometimes you just need a place to talk about.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. It's like a professor axent in school going to
Speaker 1: have somewhere for those kids to go and and I mean, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: reality is way more vast than what's what's been covered
Speaker 1: in the textbooks. Is just such a distilled way to
Speaker 1: represent what the extent of full extent of reality. It's
Speaker 1: being watered down and that's why kids end up being
Speaker 1: demotivated and bored is because they're they're being people trying
Speaker 1: to convince them and sell them a story about reality.
Speaker 1: It doesn't fit with their own experience of reality as
Speaker 1: human living beings, because that's already so far, like it's
Speaker 1: so much more majestic and incredible than what they're they're learning.
Speaker 1: It's they're being subdued, so they get it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think school is great at h creating inspiration, and
Speaker 1: it's probably not designed to do that generally, which is
Speaker 1: why I'm not part of it anymore. So I substitute
Speaker 1: is pretty much just enough to have enough money to write,
Speaker 1: and so I was like writing books, but you put
Speaker 1: them on Kindle, nobody's, nobody finds those. So then I
Speaker 1: start writing articles for journals and my writing is you
Speaker 1: could probably imagine this is also a little bit too edgy,
Speaker 1: because you get into sleep paralysis and I could get
Speaker 1: into another story about house dreams. So there was there
Speaker 1: was a time when I was also having sleep paralysis events.
Speaker 1: I would have these dreams that were scarier than sleep paralysis,
Speaker 1: dreams that transcended that fear by a factor of one hundred,
Speaker 1: like no problem and nothing in the dream itself. If
Speaker 1: you were to see it. If you were to step
Speaker 1: into the dream and see what I was saying, you'd like,
Speaker 1: why is this scary? But it was just unbridled fear.
Speaker 1: And it involved the house and I'd get I'd be
Speaker 1: in the house and there'd always be one room and
Speaker 1: I knew it was somewhere, and I'd get close to
Speaker 1: it and the fear would start to kick in. And
Speaker 1: it's a fear like I cannot explain, like the most
Speaker 1: afraid you've ever been watching a movie or whatever. For
Speaker 1: me is it was. It's beyond like for me, I've
Speaker 1: never felt anything like it. I'd get goosebumps just talking
Speaker 1: about it. So in this house, I'd get to the
Speaker 1: room and I'm like, I'm not going in there. The
Speaker 1: fear would be too much. But one time I was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta go in. And I opened the room and
Speaker 1: it's like high windows on either side. The room is
Speaker 1: longer than it is wide. Really kind of antique furniture,
Speaker 1: slightly dusty antiques in glass cases. Just seems harmless. But
Speaker 1: the amount of fear from this room that I would
Speaker 1: feel was just shocking. It would it would sit with
Speaker 1: me the whole next day, and I did not how
Speaker 1: to interpret it, so I'd like I'm diving into like
Speaker 1: Carl Jung's writing about archetypes, and apparently the symbol is
Speaker 1: that the dream is the entire psyche, my unconscious, my ego,
Speaker 1: et cetera, the whole thing, and then the room is
Speaker 1: how my unconscious thinks about me that I'm I've become
Speaker 1: terrifying to it. So it's like showing me a mirror
Speaker 1: of how it feels about me, which is kind of
Speaker 1: a parallel to what cattle mutilations might be. It might
Speaker 1: be like, here, this is what you are doing, this
Speaker 1: is what this is. You're coldly treating these animals in
Speaker 1: this disrespectful way, you're disrespecting the history of the land,
Speaker 1: et cetera. It's kind of there might be a parallel there,
Speaker 1: but anyway, it's symbolic communication, and eventually, you know, I
Speaker 1: get my act together, the dreams disappear. I haven't dreamt
Speaker 1: about a house with a room in it since I
Speaker 1: started living a better life. But about a year or
Speaker 1: two when I got my act together, I had a
Speaker 1: Tinder date with someone and she tells me she's having
Speaker 1: house dreams, and I was like, oh, okay, So I said,
Speaker 1: you are in danger, something going on in your life
Speaker 1: you have to fix. And I've made sure she knew
Speaker 1: I was serious. I remember her name. I will absolutely
Speaker 1: not say your name. The date ends. We just kind
Speaker 1: of go our separate ways, and I think a friend
Speaker 1: her on Facebook or something. We don't really talk anymore,
Speaker 1: but I see her pictures and this is I mean,
Speaker 1: this is sad. But over time she disintegrated. She like
Speaker 1: slowly wilted away. I don't know what the problem was,
Speaker 1: but she passed away. And I wish I could go
Speaker 1: back to that date and really, like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: say it ten times instead of once, that you are
Speaker 1: in danger. I have to fix this or maybe reach
Speaker 1: out more for a second date. But the house dream
Speaker 1: seems to be an archetypal communication of deep danger. It
Speaker 1: seems to be, and it seems to be almost universal.
Speaker 1: I even had another gal from a dating app tell
Speaker 1: me that she was because I asked her, because I
Speaker 1: could tell her life was just in disarray. She was
Speaker 1: always drunk when we would talk, always smoking, always just
Speaker 1: just like in between jobs, like nothing seemed to be
Speaker 1: set up for. And I said, do you happen to
Speaker 1: be dreaming about a house with a room in it
Speaker 1: and maybe there's something wrong with this room. And she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I dream about a house in the basement is all messy,
Speaker 1: and I don't go down there. I can't even go
Speaker 1: down into the basement. In my dream. I said, you
Speaker 1: have to fix whatever, you have to fix your life
Speaker 1: because you're you're in danger. But you tell most people that,
Speaker 1: and if especially if you don't know them, even if
Speaker 1: you do know them, they're gonna get They're going to
Speaker 1: defend themselves. They're not going to take that advice because
Speaker 1: you've just told yeah, yeah, so could you hear me there? Sorry,
Speaker 1: my thumb was over the thing.
Speaker 3: You're good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyway, maybe I just need to get off
Speaker 1: dating apps. But uh yeah, dreams have meanings. Some people
Speaker 1: think they're just like the defragmentation of defragging the memories
Speaker 1: and the brains, like just processing things randomly. Maybe sometimes
Speaker 1: it is that, but not always. I've had precognitive dreams.
Speaker 1: There was a time at the first school where I taught, well,
Speaker 1: I had a week straight where I had dream after
Speaker 1: dream after dream, like five nights straight in October. It
Speaker 1: was in the fall, and they were all pre cognitive.
Speaker 1: The next day it would be validated. I had a
Speaker 1: dream that one of my students was going to start
Speaker 1: acting up, and she was normally great. Very next day
Speaker 1: she's like cussing, she won't stop yelling. I was okay.
Speaker 1: Then I had another dream that a student that I'd
Speaker 1: never talked to was going to visit me in my room.
Speaker 1: The next day he comes by and we have a chat,
Speaker 1: even though we had never talked before. Then I have
Speaker 1: a dream about the football team winning their football game
Speaker 1: and they were going to score twenty points. And I
Speaker 1: tell that I was student teaching. I told the guy
Speaker 1: I was teaching under it was training me the guiding teacher,
Speaker 1: about this dream. He was the offensive coordinator. So on
Speaker 1: the van, he tells the team about this dream I
Speaker 1: had that they won. So yeah, mister Waterman, he he
Speaker 1: had a dream that you guys won the game. He
Speaker 1: didn't tell him the score that I saw, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't know the opponent's score. I
Speaker 1: thought it had zero, and it's either zero or ten,
Speaker 1: but I dreamt twenty for the winning score. So I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there watching their game on a laptop and they
Speaker 1: had just scored their third touchdown, so they had twenty
Speaker 1: points and I was like, well, if my dream's right,
Speaker 1: he's got to miss this extra point kick. And it sailed.
Speaker 1: It sailed wise, so I was like, well, there you go.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of these things. It
Speaker 1: seems to be like access to something I shouldn't have
Speaker 1: access to, but I don't think it's that rare across people.
Speaker 1: And even like the government with the Stargate program, they've
Speaker 1: used people's abilities to access information that we don't really
Speaker 1: know how they gain access to it. But the government's
Speaker 1: been interested in this for a long time. Stanford had
Speaker 1: a lab called I think it was SRI where And
Speaker 1: I could be totally wrong about that, but I think
Speaker 1: they had it for decades where they studied psychic phenomena.
Speaker 1: And you don't do something for decades if it's baseless.
Speaker 1: So and I know, like there's a lot of like
Speaker 1: law enforcement that uses psychics to help them and things,
Speaker 1: so I don't think it's nothing. I've also had experiences
Speaker 1: with telepathy. I was working at a bookstore and they
Speaker 1: were the gal that ran that bookstore. She would practice
Speaker 1: telepathy with her mom. I think they would hold up
Speaker 1: one of three shapes and then the other would try
Speaker 1: to figure out what was the one of the three
Speaker 1: shapes they were looking at. And one day I couldn't
Speaker 1: remember how to pronounce her name, so I was thinking
Speaker 1: between the two pronunciations, and she just looks up and
Speaker 1: says it. She says it's pronounced, and I won't say
Speaker 1: her name, and as if she knew. And the next
Speaker 1: day I was there at the bookstore and I was like,
Speaker 1: did you like know what I was wondering about with
Speaker 1: your name? And she's like, some things just don't need
Speaker 1: to be discussed, like she just thought that was a
Speaker 1: rabbit hole we didn't need to go down. I was like,
Speaker 1: that's fine. I've even I've had times in relations like
Speaker 1: long term relationships with like a girlfriend, where I thought
Speaker 1: the phrase I love you in my head and she'd
Speaker 1: respond I love you, and then I'd be like, I
Speaker 1: actually didn't say that out loud, and you know, you
Speaker 1: just carry on. It's like, okay, Well, there's things that
Speaker 1: the things in this reality we don't totally understand, and
Speaker 1: I mean I like them. They don't they don't really
Speaker 1: scare me. They almost comfort me because it's that there's
Speaker 1: always more than meetsci and things never get boring that way,
Speaker 1: because it's like anything is possible, and also no harm,
Speaker 1: no foul, right, like nothing bad happened. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: wish I could just I actually had a dream the
Speaker 1: other day about ninety thousand. I was like, well, at
Speaker 1: least for sure it was ninety and a bunch of zeros.
Speaker 1: And then the next day I got on Instagram and
Speaker 1: the was it the power Ball I think it was
Speaker 1: what was called or the Mega Millions was ninety million
Speaker 1: dollars and I was like scrambling to buy a ticket.
Speaker 1: I was like, this might be it, But then I
Speaker 1: had downloaded an app or something. I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to give this app my credit card info.
Speaker 1: So I might have missed my chance. But that's fine
Speaker 1: because that'll keep me motivated to study cows and substituteach,
Speaker 1: you know, write and stuff. Gotta stay hungry. I can't
Speaker 1: be winning all this money'd be ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Where can everyone find you out? So you say you're
Speaker 3: right and you're doing all the studying on the cattle mutilations,
Speaker 3: Is there something you're going to be putting out in
Speaker 3: regard to the mutilation discoveries that you've been looking into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much everything we talked about is on the
Speaker 1: video I posted on sound Science, So just a little
Speaker 1: alliteration for people. Sound Science on YouTube and then Ganymede
Speaker 1: that's like the Greek myth Ganymede Underscore Graham like Instagram
Speaker 1: on Instagram is my page there, And yeah, I'd be
Speaker 1: open to talk to people about paranormal stuff anytime. I
Speaker 1: talk to former students about like the cow stuff, and
Speaker 1: you know, whoever's interested in these things, because the mystery
Speaker 1: is just I mean, it's so cool. It's the perfect mystery,
Speaker 1: especially the cow stuff, because you can understand just enough
Speaker 1: of it to feel like you're making progress, but you
Speaker 1: can't ever get all of it to feel like you
Speaker 1: got it wrapped up. So it's uh, yeah, I'll probably
Speaker 1: be wondering about it for a long time. But yeah,
Speaker 1: those two, those two sites that would be it. Sound
Speaker 1: Science on YouTube and then Ganymede Graham on Instagram.
Speaker 3: Awesome. Make sure to send me the links to that
Speaker 3: and then I will include those in the show notes
Speaker 3: for anyone listening. Awesome, But I think we can probably
Speaker 3: wrap this one up. Is there anything else before we
Speaker 3: do that you would like to discuss?
Speaker 1: I just really appreciate the opportunity. It's it felt like
Speaker 1: a weight on my shoulders to discover this pattern and
Speaker 1: feel like, oh, I got to tell somebody I don't like.
Speaker 1: I don't like knowing things that are kind of like
Speaker 1: that interesting and not being able to talk about it,
Speaker 1: especially since it's the summer and I'm not teaching. Not
Speaker 1: that this is something I'm probably gonna bring up at school,
Speaker 1: although there might be some high schoolers, like the certain
Speaker 1: type of dudes that might, you know, I could talk
Speaker 1: to them about it, But I just really appreciate the
Speaker 1: opportunity to talk to you about this, and uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Hey, not a problem. I appreciate having you on. Thank
Speaker 3: you for being an awesome guest. And you brought some
Speaker 3: fascinating information that I never knew, especially when it comes
Speaker 3: to atumutilation. So that's something I'm going to actually start
Speaker 3: digging into myself. So definitely appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Excellent. I'm sure we'll be talking again sometimes.
Speaker 3: Definitely. You have a good night, you too.
Speaker 1: Bye.
Speaker 3: If you would like to be a guest on Tenfoil Tels,
Speaker 3: remember to send an email to Tenfoil Tells Podcast to
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