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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI

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<v Speaker 1>AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I told you he was coming. I teased it, I

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<v Speaker 1>promised it. I have the official, the real Yes, Tony

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<v Speaker 1>Porter here from a Call to Men. Tony, thanks so

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<v Speaker 1>much for being with us.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Doctor Wendy for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to embarrass you because I'm going to read

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of a resume in case there are

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<v Speaker 1>people out there who have not heard your name. I

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<v Speaker 1>think they're two living under a rock somewhere in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>So here we go. Tony Porter is an author, educator,

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<v Speaker 1>and activist who works on many social justice issues. He

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<v Speaker 1>founded an organization of called A Call to Men that

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<v Speaker 1>helps promote healthy, respectful manhood. I love that and many

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<v Speaker 1>men look up to him. He is a consultant for

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<v Speaker 1>the National Football League, the NBA, the NHL, Major League Soccer,

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<v Speaker 1>and even has talked at West Point and around the

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<v Speaker 1>world world. If you have not seen his Ted talk,

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<v Speaker 1>it is amazing. Look him up Tony Porter and it's

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<v Speaker 1>one of the top ten Ted talks every man should see.

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<v Speaker 1>He's the author of the book Breaking Out of the

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<v Speaker 1>man box. Thanks so much again for being here. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about why you think this topic is so important

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<v Speaker 1>right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's important for many reasons right now as we

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<v Speaker 2>go into the future as men, you know, we continue

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<v Speaker 2>to have an epidemic of violence against women and girls

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<v Speaker 2>here in the United States of Americas, has stated by

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<v Speaker 2>the Center for Disease Control. We know that fifty percent

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<v Speaker 2>of excuse me, thirty percent of women who are killed

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<v Speaker 2>or killed by their husband, boyfriend, or partner. We know

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<v Speaker 2>that we live, unfortunately in a rape culture. We know

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<v Speaker 2>that one out of four women will be such the

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<v Speaker 2>assaulted during her four years and college. So when you

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<v Speaker 2>think about violence against women and girls, and while the

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<v Speaker 2>majority of men don't perpetrate the violence, the problem is

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<v Speaker 2>with silent to the violence, and it's happening on our watch.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's related to what we call the man box

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<v Speaker 2>that are called to men, the collective socialization of manhood,

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<v Speaker 2>as men would taught collectively to have less value in women,

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<v Speaker 2>to view women as the property of men, and to

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<v Speaker 2>view women as objects, particularly sexual objects. And again, while

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<v Speaker 2>most men don't perpetrate this violence, with silent to the violence,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's a youth.

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<v Speaker 1>Problem you know you mentioned these statistics about sexual violence,

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<v Speaker 1>rape assault. I've been very open in my many years

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<v Speaker 1>doing media that I am a survivor of domestic violence,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want to tell everybody that it crosses all social, racial,

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<v Speaker 1>and economic lines. In fact, probably hear less about the

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<v Speaker 1>domestic violence that happens in higher socioeconomic households because the

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<v Speaker 1>walls are thicker, the lawns are stretched out, their neighbors

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<v Speaker 1>aren't hearing the screaming, etc. And they're less reportable because

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<v Speaker 1>of the social shame around it all. But I just

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<v Speaker 1>want to say to any woman who's out there who

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<v Speaker 1>may be listening, is that this is never your fault,

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<v Speaker 1>and it happens to twenty five percent of women. One

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<v Speaker 1>in four women will experience domestic violence in their lifetime,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's nothing you can do to prevent it. This

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<v Speaker 1>is what Tony Porter is doing with his organization A

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<v Speaker 1>Call to Men, which is helping to get men to

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<v Speaker 1>stop this problem. Tell me about forming the organization A

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<v Speaker 1>Call to Men? When and why did you create it?

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<v Speaker 2>Created twenty three years ago myself and the other co

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<v Speaker 2>found the Ted Bunch. We were both working with men

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<v Speaker 2>who were abusive and what we realize is what we

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<v Speaker 2>were talking to teaching and in aging men who were abusive.

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<v Speaker 2>And these are men who were sent to us by

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<v Speaker 2>the courts. The time we were spending with them and

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<v Speaker 2>the things we were talking to them about, we realized

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<v Speaker 2>we needed to talk to all men about this information,

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<v Speaker 2>that it wasn't just the men who were abusive that

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<v Speaker 2>were the problem. In essence, we all had a hand

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<v Speaker 2>in it through our silence. So it was by way

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<v Speaker 2>of that that we decided to start a call to

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<v Speaker 2>men to no longer just work with men who were abusive,

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<v Speaker 2>but to work with all men.

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<v Speaker 1>So what can those other men do? What do you

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<v Speaker 1>suggest with their if they break out from their silence?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it about when they hear something or see something,

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<v Speaker 1>how should they react?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's part of it, you know. Part of it

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<v Speaker 2>is how we react in the presence of violence. But

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<v Speaker 2>equally important to our work at a call to men

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<v Speaker 2>is preventing the violence going upstream and prevent the violence

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<v Speaker 2>from happening at all. And that really speaks to the

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<v Speaker 2>teaching of men, boys, what it means to be a man,

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<v Speaker 2>and reteaching ourselves is men, what we've been taught that

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<v Speaker 2>it means to be a man. Again, we've been taught

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<v Speaker 2>to have less value. We've been taught women at the

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<v Speaker 2>property of men. We have been taught women are objects,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly sexual objects. Is the reteaching of what it means

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<v Speaker 2>to be a man, this collective socialization of manhood. So

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<v Speaker 2>our work is really rooted around preventing the violence.

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<v Speaker 1>So what are the hallmarks of healthy manhood in your mind?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? And yet, and before I even share about that,

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<v Speaker 2>these same rigid notions of masculinity, they're not only fostering

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<v Speaker 2>this epidemic of violence against women and girls, they're hurting

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<v Speaker 2>men as well, and so men, so so much of

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<v Speaker 2>what we're taught that it means to be a man

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<v Speaker 2>is men don't ask for help. That asks me for

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<v Speaker 2>help is a sign of weakness. That's fostering an epidemic

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<v Speaker 2>of issues with we as men as well. Be it

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<v Speaker 2>our mental health, be it our physical health. This inability

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<v Speaker 2>to ask for help as men. And you couple that

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<v Speaker 2>with the lack of emotional intelligence we have because as men,

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<v Speaker 2>we're taught to shut down our feelings and emotions at

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<v Speaker 2>a very early age. The only emotion we give each

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<v Speaker 2>other permission to express is anger. So we have a

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<v Speaker 2>lack of emotional intelligence and this inability to ask for help.

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<v Speaker 2>When you put that together, you can see the mental

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<v Speaker 2>health challenges it's created for we as men. We know

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<v Speaker 2>that approximately six million men every year go undiagnosed for

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<v Speaker 2>anxiety and depression. We know men complete suicide four times

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<v Speaker 2>that the rate of women. We know men don't practice

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<v Speaker 2>preventative health care medicine. We know that men who are

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<v Speaker 2>partners are actually healthier than men who are single, and

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<v Speaker 2>it really has nothing to do with the man is

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<v Speaker 2>more about that partner in his life. So this thing

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<v Speaker 2>around help being taught that help is a sign of

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<v Speaker 2>weakness is really killing us as men. So the things

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<v Speaker 2>that we're talking about right now, and not only fostering

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<v Speaker 2>and epidemical violence against women and girls, they're also hurting

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<v Speaker 2>men as well. So when you ask about what are

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<v Speaker 2>some healthy masculinity, healthy manhood solutions, one is embracing our

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<v Speaker 2>full range of emotions. That is okay not to just

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<v Speaker 2>talk about anger, but to talk about fear, to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about pain. As men, we talk about the importance of

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<v Speaker 2>value on women in our lives and that women are

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<v Speaker 2>not the property of men. To stop using denigrating language,

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<v Speaker 2>and to such as it relates to women to challenge

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<v Speaker 2>harmful messages in respect to gender. All right, that is

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<v Speaker 2>okay to hav an interest in the experience of women

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<v Speaker 2>and girls, and now particularly teaching this our boys, that

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<v Speaker 2>it's okay to have an interest in the experience of

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<v Speaker 2>women and girls. Of sexual conquest is not a goal.

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<v Speaker 2>And of course, as I mentioned, asking for help is

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<v Speaker 2>not a sign of weakness, is actually a sign of strength.

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<v Speaker 1>Tony Porter, we got to go to a break, Tony

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<v Speaker 1>Porter of A Call to Men. When we come back,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk about how our culture is finally

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<v Speaker 1>starting to spread. Your message from Ted Lasso to comedian

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Burr will touch on it, as well as your

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<v Speaker 1>partnership with the biggest Latino dating app. My guest, Tony Porter,

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<v Speaker 1>founder of A Call to Men, has been teaching healthy

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<v Speaker 1>manhood for decades. I don't know if you've seen Tony.

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<v Speaker 1>Last night, I watched a new Netflix comedy special by

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<v Speaker 1>the comedian Bill Burr, who is a normally loud, raunchy,

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<v Speaker 1>angry comedian, and he talked about how the death of

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<v Speaker 1>his friend caused him to start to connect with his

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<v Speaker 1>wife and eventually his feelings and he talks about how

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<v Speaker 1>the only two emotions men are allowed to feel are

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<v Speaker 1>fine and angry, and when he actually sat with these

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<v Speaker 1>feelings wrapped in a blanket, how much better he felt

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<v Speaker 1>just by allowing himself to experience it. I also noticed

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<v Speaker 1>Ted Lasso just got picked up for a third season,

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<v Speaker 1>and that certainly is one TV series that's working to

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<v Speaker 1>break out, helping many men athletes in that show break

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<v Speaker 1>out of the man box. Do you think our culture

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<v Speaker 1>is finally hearing what you've been screaming from the mountaintops

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<v Speaker 1>for a few decades.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we're having some wonderful examples of that. You

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<v Speaker 2>gave two and both examples you gave. Also, I know

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to talk about Chispa, the dating app for

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<v Speaker 2>the LATINX community, what we're trying to do at a

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<v Speaker 2>call to men, And again the examples you gave are

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<v Speaker 2>excellent examples of using culture to impact culture. Right that,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, we can teach him in school and other places.

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<v Speaker 2>But you what's out there already that people are really

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<v Speaker 2>invested in and making use of and is not going anywhere,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, how do we use culture to impact culture?

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<v Speaker 2>So when we find it in the Entertainment Committee and

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<v Speaker 2>places like that is very, very helpful. There's a new

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<v Speaker 2>Netflix mini series called Adolescence. I believe that really really

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<v Speaker 2>leans into what we're teaching boys about what it means

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<v Speaker 2>to be a man and many of the challenges that

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<v Speaker 2>comes with that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad that's happening. I notice you use the term

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<v Speaker 1>the man box, and of course the famous international study

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<v Speaker 1>called the man Box I teach in my developmental psychology class.

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<v Speaker 1>What I find interesting is that you have partnered with Chispa,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the largest Latino dating app, to help men

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<v Speaker 1>of a certain culture break out of their own version

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<v Speaker 1>of the man box. What is the man box and

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<v Speaker 1>what do Latin Why do matt Many Latin men feel

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<v Speaker 1>more trapped in it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in the Latin community they call it machiese mo.

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<v Speaker 2>And I got to be honest with you, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>culturally believe that LATINX men are more tracked in it

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<v Speaker 2>than other men. I believe each cultural group has their

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<v Speaker 2>examples of it, and we're all caught up in it.

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<v Speaker 2>In that box, men are taught to be tough, strong, courageous. Again,

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<v Speaker 2>less value in women. Women as a property. Men don't

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<v Speaker 2>share their feelings or emotions you know that you can

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<v Speaker 2>only be heterosexual as a man. You can't be gay, queer,

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<v Speaker 2>any of the likes. Men must always be in control.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no space for vulnerability. Again, the only emotion that

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<v Speaker 2>we can express is anger. We have to be aggressive,

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<v Speaker 2>show no weakness, no fear. Young men today talk about

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<v Speaker 2>that you can't be soft as men. So there's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of of in this box. The ingredients in this

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<v Speaker 2>box in many respects are holding us hostage, and we

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<v Speaker 2>as men are the ones that primarily hold each other

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<v Speaker 2>hostage to the box. And what's really key in this

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<v Speaker 2>box it leads very very little space for men to

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<v Speaker 2>be their authentic selves. We have to be a role

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<v Speaker 2>self worth, a whole self.

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<v Speaker 1>So after the next break, I am going to share

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<v Speaker 1>some of the tips that your organization, A Call to Men,

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<v Speaker 1>has come up with when partnering with CHISPA. So I

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<v Speaker 1>will go through don't go away people, Gus. I will

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<v Speaker 1>go through ten tips for men really not just Latin men,

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<v Speaker 1>for men to use on dating sites to have better

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<v Speaker 1>luck in having an authentic, healthy relationship. But before we go,

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<v Speaker 1>Tony Porter, I've got to ask you. I know you

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<v Speaker 1>have spoken to the most masculine groups of men on

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<v Speaker 1>the planet from the NFL to West Point. How has

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<v Speaker 1>our current political climate impacted your work here in America?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, our political climate is really not much

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<v Speaker 2>different than whether we're talking about sports organization or other

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<v Speaker 2>spaces men men where you find men, where we congregate.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we take a couple of steps forward, we

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<v Speaker 2>take a couple of steps back. That's the work of

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<v Speaker 2>social justice, social movement work. You know, the political climate

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<v Speaker 2>is just another example of the work that's in front

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<v Speaker 2>of us as men to do well.

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<v Speaker 1>I want you to keep up with the good work

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<v Speaker 1>that you're doing. Earlier in the show tonight, I was

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<v Speaker 1>talking about the World Happiness Report that just came out

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<v Speaker 1>and that America has sunk out of the top twenty

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<v Speaker 1>down to twenty four, and those Nordic countries are way

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<v Speaker 1>there at the top. And you know, my daughter spent

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<v Speaker 1>some time studying in Sweden that I visited her a

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<v Speaker 1>couple times, and I was amazed to see how many tattooed,

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<v Speaker 1>musclely bearded men were wearing babies around and hanging out

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<v Speaker 1>in groups of guys changing diapers and coffee shops. And

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<v Speaker 1>I realized it was partly because of what the government

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<v Speaker 1>there does. They make both partners share in the time

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<v Speaker 1>off and get paid for parental leave. It's not called

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<v Speaker 1>maternity leave. It's parental leave, and both partners have to

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<v Speaker 1>take a piece of it. Do you think we'll ever

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<v Speaker 1>get that there in America?

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<v Speaker 2>We might not be where there are, but we have

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<v Speaker 2>examples of it. I mean, I remember the time when

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<v Speaker 2>we didn't have changing stations in men's bathrooms. We have

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<v Speaker 2>those today. We have you know, the backsacks of front

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<v Speaker 2>sacks that men use carrying I see it's not abnormal

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<v Speaker 2>to see men moving around the country with a baby

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<v Speaker 2>on their front or a baby on their back. We

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<v Speaker 2>have those, you know, we have our examples of those.

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<v Speaker 2>You might find some countries, of course, that are further

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<v Speaker 2>a law the game than we are, but we're in

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<v Speaker 2>it as men. We work a lot with men and

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<v Speaker 2>fatherhood programs and where men are really learning how to

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<v Speaker 2>not just coach our children, but to nurse our children,

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<v Speaker 2>and to love our children, and the importance of being

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<v Speaker 2>loving with our children and not just coaching. And and

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<v Speaker 2>we have paternity leave here in our country for men.

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<v Speaker 2>I just had a staff member that was just on

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<v Speaker 2>a male identified staff member that was just on three

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<v Speaker 2>months fraternity leave, and so we have our examples of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Some countries maybe further along, and some countries are not

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<v Speaker 2>quite where we are. But I've been doing this work

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<v Speaker 2>for twenty plus years. I'm blessed to have seen some examples,

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<v Speaker 2>many examples of change is taking place here. And I've

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<v Speaker 2>spent many places abroad and so in other places as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Tony Porter, a pleasure to meet you, founder of A

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<v Speaker 1>Call to Men. Thank you for being with us when

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<v Speaker 1>we come back.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got news from his group, A Call to Men

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<v Speaker 1>and the Latino dating site chis but ten tips for

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<v Speaker 1>men on how to use dating sites and apps for success.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to doctor Wendy Walls show on KFI Am

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<v Speaker 1>six forty were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Right now,

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<v Speaker 1>let's go to the twenty four hour KFI Newsroom