Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI
Speaker 1: AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Well,
Speaker 1: I told you he was coming. I teased it, I
Speaker 1: promised it. I have the official, the real Yes, Tony
Speaker 1: Porter here from a Call to Men. Tony, thanks so
Speaker 1: much for being with us.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Doctor Wendy for having me.
Speaker 1: I'm going to embarrass you because I'm going to read
Speaker 1: a little bit of a resume in case there are
Speaker 1: people out there who have not heard your name. I
Speaker 1: think they're two living under a rock somewhere in the world.
Speaker 1: So here we go. Tony Porter is an author, educator,
Speaker 1: and activist who works on many social justice issues. He
Speaker 1: founded an organization of called A Call to Men that
Speaker 1: helps promote healthy, respectful manhood. I love that and many
Speaker 1: men look up to him. He is a consultant for
Speaker 1: the National Football League, the NBA, the NHL, Major League Soccer,
Speaker 1: and even has talked at West Point and around the
Speaker 1: world world. If you have not seen his Ted talk,
Speaker 1: it is amazing. Look him up Tony Porter and it's
Speaker 1: one of the top ten Ted talks every man should see.
Speaker 1: He's the author of the book Breaking Out of the
Speaker 1: man box. Thanks so much again for being here. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about why you think this topic is so important
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: Well, it's important for many reasons right now as we
Speaker 2: go into the future as men, you know, we continue
Speaker 2: to have an epidemic of violence against women and girls
Speaker 2: here in the United States of Americas, has stated by
Speaker 2: the Center for Disease Control. We know that fifty percent
Speaker 2: of excuse me, thirty percent of women who are killed
Speaker 2: or killed by their husband, boyfriend, or partner. We know
Speaker 2: that we live, unfortunately in a rape culture. We know
Speaker 2: that one out of four women will be such the
Speaker 2: assaulted during her four years and college. So when you
Speaker 2: think about violence against women and girls, and while the
Speaker 2: majority of men don't perpetrate the violence, the problem is
Speaker 2: with silent to the violence, and it's happening on our watch.
Speaker 2: And it's related to what we call the man box
Speaker 2: that are called to men, the collective socialization of manhood,
Speaker 2: as men would taught collectively to have less value in women,
Speaker 2: to view women as the property of men, and to
Speaker 2: view women as objects, particularly sexual objects. And again, while
Speaker 2: most men don't perpetrate this violence, with silent to the violence,
Speaker 2: and that's a youth.
Speaker 1: Problem you know you mentioned these statistics about sexual violence,
Speaker 1: rape assault. I've been very open in my many years
Speaker 1: doing media that I am a survivor of domestic violence,
Speaker 1: and I want to tell everybody that it crosses all social, racial,
Speaker 1: and economic lines. In fact, probably hear less about the
Speaker 1: domestic violence that happens in higher socioeconomic households because the
Speaker 1: walls are thicker, the lawns are stretched out, their neighbors
Speaker 1: aren't hearing the screaming, etc. And they're less reportable because
Speaker 1: of the social shame around it all. But I just
Speaker 1: want to say to any woman who's out there who
Speaker 1: may be listening, is that this is never your fault,
Speaker 1: and it happens to twenty five percent of women. One
Speaker 1: in four women will experience domestic violence in their lifetime,
Speaker 1: and there's nothing you can do to prevent it. This
Speaker 1: is what Tony Porter is doing with his organization A
Speaker 1: Call to Men, which is helping to get men to
Speaker 1: stop this problem. Tell me about forming the organization A
Speaker 1: Call to Men? When and why did you create it?
Speaker 2: Created twenty three years ago myself and the other co
Speaker 2: found the Ted Bunch. We were both working with men
Speaker 2: who were abusive and what we realize is what we
Speaker 2: were talking to teaching and in aging men who were abusive.
Speaker 2: And these are men who were sent to us by
Speaker 2: the courts. The time we were spending with them and
Speaker 2: the things we were talking to them about, we realized
Speaker 2: we needed to talk to all men about this information,
Speaker 2: that it wasn't just the men who were abusive that
Speaker 2: were the problem. In essence, we all had a hand
Speaker 2: in it through our silence. So it was by way
Speaker 2: of that that we decided to start a call to
Speaker 2: men to no longer just work with men who were abusive,
Speaker 2: but to work with all men.
Speaker 1: So what can those other men do? What do you
Speaker 1: suggest with their if they break out from their silence?
Speaker 1: Is it about when they hear something or see something,
Speaker 1: how should they react?
Speaker 2: Well, that's part of it, you know. Part of it
Speaker 2: is how we react in the presence of violence. But
Speaker 2: equally important to our work at a call to men
Speaker 2: is preventing the violence going upstream and prevent the violence
Speaker 2: from happening at all. And that really speaks to the
Speaker 2: teaching of men, boys, what it means to be a man,
Speaker 2: and reteaching ourselves is men, what we've been taught that
Speaker 2: it means to be a man. Again, we've been taught
Speaker 2: to have less value. We've been taught women at the
Speaker 2: property of men. We have been taught women are objects,
Speaker 2: particularly sexual objects. Is the reteaching of what it means
Speaker 2: to be a man, this collective socialization of manhood. So
Speaker 2: our work is really rooted around preventing the violence.
Speaker 1: So what are the hallmarks of healthy manhood in your mind?
Speaker 2: Well? And yet, and before I even share about that,
Speaker 2: these same rigid notions of masculinity, they're not only fostering
Speaker 2: this epidemic of violence against women and girls, they're hurting
Speaker 2: men as well, and so men, so so much of
Speaker 2: what we're taught that it means to be a man
Speaker 2: is men don't ask for help. That asks me for
Speaker 2: help is a sign of weakness. That's fostering an epidemic
Speaker 2: of issues with we as men as well. Be it
Speaker 2: our mental health, be it our physical health. This inability
Speaker 2: to ask for help as men. And you couple that
Speaker 2: with the lack of emotional intelligence we have because as men,
Speaker 2: we're taught to shut down our feelings and emotions at
Speaker 2: a very early age. The only emotion we give each
Speaker 2: other permission to express is anger. So we have a
Speaker 2: lack of emotional intelligence and this inability to ask for help.
Speaker 2: When you put that together, you can see the mental
Speaker 2: health challenges it's created for we as men. We know
Speaker 2: that approximately six million men every year go undiagnosed for
Speaker 2: anxiety and depression. We know men complete suicide four times
Speaker 2: that the rate of women. We know men don't practice
Speaker 2: preventative health care medicine. We know that men who are
Speaker 2: partners are actually healthier than men who are single, and
Speaker 2: it really has nothing to do with the man is
Speaker 2: more about that partner in his life. So this thing
Speaker 2: around help being taught that help is a sign of
Speaker 2: weakness is really killing us as men. So the things
Speaker 2: that we're talking about right now, and not only fostering
Speaker 2: and epidemical violence against women and girls, they're also hurting
Speaker 2: men as well. So when you ask about what are
Speaker 2: some healthy masculinity, healthy manhood solutions, one is embracing our
Speaker 2: full range of emotions. That is okay not to just
Speaker 2: talk about anger, but to talk about fear, to talk
Speaker 2: about pain. As men, we talk about the importance of
Speaker 2: value on women in our lives and that women are
Speaker 2: not the property of men. To stop using denigrating language,
Speaker 2: and to such as it relates to women to challenge
Speaker 2: harmful messages in respect to gender. All right, that is
Speaker 2: okay to hav an interest in the experience of women
Speaker 2: and girls, and now particularly teaching this our boys, that
Speaker 2: it's okay to have an interest in the experience of
Speaker 2: women and girls. Of sexual conquest is not a goal.
Speaker 2: And of course, as I mentioned, asking for help is
Speaker 2: not a sign of weakness, is actually a sign of strength.
Speaker 1: Tony Porter, we got to go to a break, Tony
Speaker 1: Porter of A Call to Men. When we come back,
Speaker 1: I want to talk about how our culture is finally
Speaker 1: starting to spread. Your message from Ted Lasso to comedian
Speaker 1: Bill Burr will touch on it, as well as your
Speaker 1: partnership with the biggest Latino dating app. My guest, Tony Porter,
Speaker 1: founder of A Call to Men, has been teaching healthy
Speaker 1: manhood for decades. I don't know if you've seen Tony.
Speaker 1: Last night, I watched a new Netflix comedy special by
Speaker 1: the comedian Bill Burr, who is a normally loud, raunchy,
Speaker 1: angry comedian, and he talked about how the death of
Speaker 1: his friend caused him to start to connect with his
Speaker 1: wife and eventually his feelings and he talks about how
Speaker 1: the only two emotions men are allowed to feel are
Speaker 1: fine and angry, and when he actually sat with these
Speaker 1: feelings wrapped in a blanket, how much better he felt
Speaker 1: just by allowing himself to experience it. I also noticed
Speaker 1: Ted Lasso just got picked up for a third season,
Speaker 1: and that certainly is one TV series that's working to
Speaker 1: break out, helping many men athletes in that show break
Speaker 1: out of the man box. Do you think our culture
Speaker 1: is finally hearing what you've been screaming from the mountaintops
Speaker 1: for a few decades.
Speaker 2: You know, we're having some wonderful examples of that. You
Speaker 2: gave two and both examples you gave. Also, I know
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about Chispa, the dating app for
Speaker 2: the LATINX community, what we're trying to do at a
Speaker 2: call to men, And again the examples you gave are
Speaker 2: excellent examples of using culture to impact culture. Right that,
Speaker 2: of course, we can teach him in school and other places.
Speaker 2: But you what's out there already that people are really
Speaker 2: invested in and making use of and is not going anywhere,
Speaker 2: by the way, how do we use culture to impact culture?
Speaker 2: So when we find it in the Entertainment Committee and
Speaker 2: places like that is very, very helpful. There's a new
Speaker 2: Netflix mini series called Adolescence. I believe that really really
Speaker 2: leans into what we're teaching boys about what it means
Speaker 2: to be a man and many of the challenges that
Speaker 2: comes with that.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that's happening. I notice you use the term
Speaker 1: the man box, and of course the famous international study
Speaker 1: called the man Box I teach in my developmental psychology class.
Speaker 1: What I find interesting is that you have partnered with Chispa,
Speaker 1: which is the largest Latino dating app, to help men
Speaker 1: of a certain culture break out of their own version
Speaker 1: of the man box. What is the man box and
Speaker 1: what do Latin Why do matt Many Latin men feel
Speaker 1: more trapped in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the Latin community they call it machiese mo.
Speaker 2: And I got to be honest with you, I don't
Speaker 2: culturally believe that LATINX men are more tracked in it
Speaker 2: than other men. I believe each cultural group has their
Speaker 2: examples of it, and we're all caught up in it.
Speaker 2: In that box, men are taught to be tough, strong, courageous. Again,
Speaker 2: less value in women. Women as a property. Men don't
Speaker 2: share their feelings or emotions you know that you can
Speaker 2: only be heterosexual as a man. You can't be gay, queer,
Speaker 2: any of the likes. Men must always be in control.
Speaker 2: There's no space for vulnerability. Again, the only emotion that
Speaker 2: we can express is anger. We have to be aggressive,
Speaker 2: show no weakness, no fear. Young men today talk about
Speaker 2: that you can't be soft as men. So there's a
Speaker 2: lot of of in this box. The ingredients in this
Speaker 2: box in many respects are holding us hostage, and we
Speaker 2: as men are the ones that primarily hold each other
Speaker 2: hostage to the box. And what's really key in this
Speaker 2: box it leads very very little space for men to
Speaker 2: be their authentic selves. We have to be a role
Speaker 2: self worth, a whole self.
Speaker 1: So after the next break, I am going to share
Speaker 1: some of the tips that your organization, A Call to Men,
Speaker 1: has come up with when partnering with CHISPA. So I
Speaker 1: will go through don't go away people, Gus. I will
Speaker 1: go through ten tips for men really not just Latin men,
Speaker 1: for men to use on dating sites to have better
Speaker 1: luck in having an authentic, healthy relationship. But before we go,
Speaker 1: Tony Porter, I've got to ask you. I know you
Speaker 1: have spoken to the most masculine groups of men on
Speaker 1: the planet from the NFL to West Point. How has
Speaker 1: our current political climate impacted your work here in America?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, our political climate is really not much
Speaker 2: different than whether we're talking about sports organization or other
Speaker 2: spaces men men where you find men, where we congregate.
Speaker 2: You know, we take a couple of steps forward, we
Speaker 2: take a couple of steps back. That's the work of
Speaker 2: social justice, social movement work. You know, the political climate
Speaker 2: is just another example of the work that's in front
Speaker 2: of us as men to do well.
Speaker 1: I want you to keep up with the good work
Speaker 1: that you're doing. Earlier in the show tonight, I was
Speaker 1: talking about the World Happiness Report that just came out
Speaker 1: and that America has sunk out of the top twenty
Speaker 1: down to twenty four, and those Nordic countries are way
Speaker 1: there at the top. And you know, my daughter spent
Speaker 1: some time studying in Sweden that I visited her a
Speaker 1: couple times, and I was amazed to see how many tattooed,
Speaker 1: musclely bearded men were wearing babies around and hanging out
Speaker 1: in groups of guys changing diapers and coffee shops. And
Speaker 1: I realized it was partly because of what the government
Speaker 1: there does. They make both partners share in the time
Speaker 1: off and get paid for parental leave. It's not called
Speaker 1: maternity leave. It's parental leave, and both partners have to
Speaker 1: take a piece of it. Do you think we'll ever
Speaker 1: get that there in America?
Speaker 2: We might not be where there are, but we have
Speaker 2: examples of it. I mean, I remember the time when
Speaker 2: we didn't have changing stations in men's bathrooms. We have
Speaker 2: those today. We have you know, the backsacks of front
Speaker 2: sacks that men use carrying I see it's not abnormal
Speaker 2: to see men moving around the country with a baby
Speaker 2: on their front or a baby on their back. We
Speaker 2: have those, you know, we have our examples of those.
Speaker 2: You might find some countries, of course, that are further
Speaker 2: a law the game than we are, but we're in
Speaker 2: it as men. We work a lot with men and
Speaker 2: fatherhood programs and where men are really learning how to
Speaker 2: not just coach our children, but to nurse our children,
Speaker 2: and to love our children, and the importance of being
Speaker 2: loving with our children and not just coaching. And and
Speaker 2: we have paternity leave here in our country for men.
Speaker 2: I just had a staff member that was just on
Speaker 2: a male identified staff member that was just on three
Speaker 2: months fraternity leave, and so we have our examples of it.
Speaker 2: Some countries maybe further along, and some countries are not
Speaker 2: quite where we are. But I've been doing this work
Speaker 2: for twenty plus years. I'm blessed to have seen some examples,
Speaker 2: many examples of change is taking place here. And I've
Speaker 2: spent many places abroad and so in other places as well.
Speaker 1: Tony Porter, a pleasure to meet you, founder of A
Speaker 1: Call to Men. Thank you for being with us when
Speaker 1: we come back.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I've got news from his group, A Call to Men
Speaker 1: and the Latino dating site chis but ten tips for
Speaker 1: men on how to use dating sites and apps for success.
Speaker 1: You're listening to doctor Wendy Walls show on KFI Am
Speaker 1: six forty were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Right now,
Speaker 1: let's go to the twenty four hour KFI Newsroom