Speaker 1: You're listening to Big for Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron.
Speaker 1: Tonight's account is from a man who grew up with
Speaker 1: Bigfoot in his backyard and never stopped chasing the mystery.
Speaker 1: From screams in the night to broken branches deep in
Speaker 1: the Blue Mountains to a roadside encounter outside Packwood that
Speaker 1: left a family speechless. These are the accounts that Kevin
Speaker 1: is sharing that spanned decades. Somewhere in the middle of
Speaker 1: all these years, something happened that changed how Kevin looked
Speaker 1: at Sasquatch forever, and maybe it'll change you as well.
Speaker 1: This is one episode you won't want to miss, so
Speaker 1: stay with us, all right, Big for Society've got the
Speaker 1: privilege of talking to Kevin Kevin's I guess I could
Speaker 1: say Kevin is a friend in an individual that I
Speaker 1: met at the Sasquatch Summerfest festival in Oakridge, Oregon. I
Speaker 1: came over to the table and we started chatting, and
Speaker 1: he knows his stuff in multiple different ways. He's a
Speaker 1: lifelong Bigfoot researcher and also a pastor from Oregon, so
Speaker 1: really connected.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: But welcome to the show, Kevin. How are you doing today?
Speaker 3: I'm doing great, fantastic looking forward to this absolutely. Man.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the map that you gave me right now.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get it all up on the wall looking good.
Speaker 1: Had to send it in the mail from sisters and
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I hope, I hope this gets through.
Speaker 1: And it got through with no issues. So we are
Speaker 1: good there. But you know, Kevin, We've got a lot
Speaker 1: of ground to cover today. You have really been in
Speaker 1: it for a long time, and so I'm going to say,
Speaker 1: let's start with this. You know, what was it that
Speaker 1: first got you into the Bigfoot at into Bigfoot at
Speaker 1: a very young age?
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's yeah, that's a good place to start. I
Speaker 3: believe it would have been about nineteen sixty seven sixty eight,
Speaker 3: right in there, and he had moved up from California.
Speaker 3: My dad was an optometrist, and we bought a place
Speaker 3: out on South Hill, pew Wallup, and at that time
Speaker 3: it was there were a huge set of power lines
Speaker 3: that ran by evergreen forests, but there really wasn't anything
Speaker 3: up there. It was just woods and I can remember
Speaker 3: the trees lining Meridian, which is the main drag that
Speaker 3: runs through pew wall Up and up over South hill
Speaker 3: and all the way out to the mountains, and it
Speaker 3: was just trees and big trees, lots of trees everywhere,
Speaker 3: and there were no housing developments. It was just this
Speaker 3: one housing development, and then there was another one to
Speaker 3: the west of us, too, but it was just uncut ground,
Speaker 3: uncut area. And we lived at the very back of
Speaker 3: this Evergreen Forest housing development. And Dad had bought a
Speaker 3: three bedroom, two bath with a garage home and it
Speaker 3: was right back on the corner. And I can remember
Speaker 3: playing in the woods and I just loved it there.
Speaker 3: I learned how to ride my bicycle. I can remember
Speaker 3: crashing on my bike a couple of times and getting
Speaker 3: pretty beat up. But the cool thing was my dad
Speaker 3: came in one night and he opened my bedroom window
Speaker 3: all the way and he said, listen to this, and
Speaker 3: outside we could hear this is what I call now
Speaker 3: their signal calls, and they're signaling one another figuring out
Speaker 3: what it was. They were figuring, I'm here where you at,
Speaker 3: and don't go wandering off and getting in trouble. That's
Speaker 3: what the signal call is. And it was it's kind
Speaker 3: of a beak and almost a almost sounds metallic. If
Speaker 3: you're really close to it, but it's a screen and
Speaker 3: it was echoing through the woods. And then another one
Speaker 3: different voice, and he said, those are bigfoot. That's what
Speaker 3: my dad told me. And I was probably seven at
Speaker 3: the time, maybe eight, And it was impressive because he
Speaker 3: would come in several nights a week and open my
Speaker 3: window and set by my dad wake me up, and
Speaker 3: we would listen to chatter, the samurai chatter. That was
Speaker 3: the first time I ever heard that, And you know,
Speaker 3: it was just it was cool because my dad would
Speaker 3: read the newspaper every night and he would pull bigfoot articles.
Speaker 3: This is this is now the late sixties, early seventies,
Speaker 3: and he would pull these articles that were common in
Speaker 3: the newspaper. People would send in their reportings. A reporter
Speaker 3: would go out and they would write a big article.
Speaker 3: And so we started keeping a scrap book together, my
Speaker 3: dad and I did about the big foot phenomenon. He
Speaker 3: was also interested in UFOs at the time and I
Speaker 3: wasn't at the time, but I mean, it was still interesting.
Speaker 3: But for him, he liked the bigfoot and the UFOs.
Speaker 3: He didn't ever tie them together. That would come years
Speaker 3: later where he would start to tie that together. But anyways,
Speaker 3: so that's how I got my start. And so all
Speaker 3: the articles I remember Pierce County Sheriff's Deputy, if they're
Speaker 3: still alive, they're probably listening to this, which is kind
Speaker 3: of interesting. But he stepped out of his patrol car
Speaker 3: at the end of a cul de sac of the
Speaker 3: housing development was starting to go in and there was
Speaker 3: still mostly woods in the area, and he got out
Speaker 3: to relieve himself, and as he was relieving himself, apparently
Speaker 3: he had actually relieved himself on a sasquatch that was
Speaker 3: in the brush right there, and it stood up to
Speaker 3: its full height and screamed at him. And it was
Speaker 3: one of those war screens. It's like that scene and
Speaker 3: Harry and the Henderson with the girl's hair goes flying.
Speaker 3: I could see the guy's hat anything go flying back.
Speaker 3: But anyways, he jumps back at his patrol car because
Speaker 3: this thing is going away from him and it's continuing
Speaker 3: to roar and to scream and to make all these
Speaker 3: this rackettest noise. I think that's a good word, rackettess noise.
Speaker 3: And he said, can you record this to the dispatch
Speaker 3: lady and she says, yes, I will, And that was
Speaker 3: the first of many of the pewall Up screams. Oh,
Speaker 3: and I still have an old copy of that from
Speaker 3: the dispatch, and it was a really clear because the
Speaker 3: animal was really close to him and his patrol car,
Speaker 3: and so it really came out pretty good and then
Speaker 3: it got quieter as it went. But the pewall Up screams,
Speaker 3: the Snahoma screams, the Ohio screams, I would say all
Speaker 3: of those are those signal calling where they're trying to
Speaker 3: identify where one another or at as they're feeding through
Speaker 3: the night, just trying to keep tabs on each other.
Speaker 1: So Kevin wrote real quick man that that is wild.
Speaker 1: Should is it like an old cassette you have that
Speaker 1: has that on it?
Speaker 3: No, I don't have that, but it's part of who
Speaker 3: is it that explain that to me? I think it
Speaker 3: was Bob Timmas Oh wow, Because Bob Titmus slept under
Speaker 3: a bunch of equipment out at South Hill Pewollip and
Speaker 3: he had the original copy cassette that they had recorded,
Speaker 3: but he went out and got his own that were
Speaker 3: just as good, and I think those are the ones
Speaker 3: that are on the BFR website. Still, the pewoll Up screams,
Speaker 3: they sound like coyotes going off, and I think that
Speaker 3: was Bob Titmas's recordings. I'm pretty sure. I mean, Bob's
Speaker 3: not around anymore to ask him, were those your recordings,
Speaker 3: because I can't quite remember, but it seemed to me
Speaker 3: like his were the ones that they used on the
Speaker 3: BFRL website.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think I remember us talking about this at
Speaker 1: the festival, how you used to hang out with Bob Tiitmos,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, this is absolutely crazy. So
Speaker 1: this is like mid mid seventies that you're hanging out
Speaker 1: with Bob Timmos.
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, this would come years later. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 3: he was just living for me because I'd set in
Speaker 3: his kitchen and he would tell me stories about the
Speaker 3: past and anyways, he was talking about the Puolu and
Speaker 3: how that was one of his best because he was
Speaker 3: able to get really good recordings of these vocalizations. And
Speaker 3: the sasquatch would do a sounding and as they would
Speaker 3: do a sounding, the coyotes would just rrupt. They would
Speaker 3: just start hooting and hollering and yipping. The coyotes would
Speaker 3: and then the sasquatch would scream again, a sounding scream
Speaker 3: and in all silence right down all of this stuff
Speaker 3: and going, wow, I never even thought of that.
Speaker 2: That's incredible, that's.
Speaker 3: What and yeah. And then later he had mentioned to
Speaker 3: me that why do you think that the coyotes follow
Speaker 3: the elk? And I went, I don't know, I never
Speaker 3: thought of it. Said, well, the elk stir up the mice,
Speaker 3: and the coyotes are scooping up the mice as they're
Speaker 3: following the elk. And I went, WHOA, would that be
Speaker 3: the same thing with sasquatching. He's a bengo, you got it?
Speaker 3: Oh wow, isn't that awesome? But you know he's a tracker.
Speaker 3: He was the one that showed Jerry Crew how to
Speaker 3: pour the plaster of Paris castings of that first footprint
Speaker 3: that went on the AP in nineteen fifty eight and
Speaker 3: hit the Worldwide AP Service and showing him holding this
Speaker 3: big cast. And that's where the title Bigfoot came from,
Speaker 3: because it was on that article at AP wire. It
Speaker 3: came out about Jerry Crew and he was the head
Speaker 3: cat skinner there. He was the bulldozer driver clearing that
Speaker 3: road in Bluff Creek and made that casting after Bob
Speaker 3: told him how to do it. So he was the
Speaker 3: local taxidermist.
Speaker 1: Bob was a tax exactly right, right, And there's not
Speaker 1: I mean, you can find some info about Bob, but
Speaker 1: he never wrote a book or anything.
Speaker 3: No, he didn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, why that's why it's so important. He is mentioned
Speaker 1: in it. But when you can find more info about Bob,
Speaker 1: titmus it's very you can get very interesting.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 1: So you were in Pialla and then your dad is
Speaker 1: you know, listen to this. You've got the scrap book.
Speaker 1: You guys are you know, working through stuff? And then
Speaker 1: so does that set you on just a lifelong you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm really going to figure out what this is. I'm
Speaker 1: totally into this bigfoot thing from there on out.
Speaker 3: No, I really don't think so. It was more like
Speaker 3: I was always fascinated with the subject, and you know,
Speaker 3: there would be in search of what them on and
Speaker 3: Lennard Nime why would come on? And all the TV stuff,
Speaker 3: And then you've got the thing down there in Louisiana,
Speaker 3: the Falk Monster and all of those things that a
Speaker 3: lot of the kids in my my age, even kids younger,
Speaker 3: would watch them because they would reshow them. But I
Speaker 3: remember going and seeing the legend of Bogey Creek at
Speaker 3: the Auburn Theater in Washington, and that was quite the thing.
Speaker 3: I came out of there really impressed. And I still
Speaker 3: had nightmares since I was growing up of a hand
Speaker 3: coming in while I was using the bathroom scared the whoopy.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've ever seen that, Jeremiah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: It it really is talk about getting personal. But anyway,
Speaker 3: so for me, it was it was something my dad
Speaker 3: and I did together. I loved it. And then all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, they're just I didn't even really think
Speaker 3: about this, but they're just weren't any more newspaper articles
Speaker 3: coming out. And you know, I went up through junior
Speaker 3: high and high school and nothing. I go to college
Speaker 3: at Central Washington University on Ellensburg, Washington, and I'm playing
Speaker 3: football over there, and then I'm also becoming a teacher,
Speaker 3: studying to be teaching. My wife and I both were
Speaker 3: at that time. And my dad calls me on the
Speaker 3: phone and says, hey, there is a Tacoma News Tribune
Speaker 3: article today about a guy named Grover Krantz. He's a
Speaker 3: professor of Washington State University. My dad attended Washington State University.
Speaker 3: That was one of his colleges. But anyways, so he
Speaker 3: was pretty excited because he says, they're talking about dermal ridges.
Speaker 3: And I said, what are dermal ridges? And he says, well,
Speaker 3: why don't you go see if you can get a copy.
Speaker 3: It's today's paper, it's the Tacoma News Tribune, and you
Speaker 3: should have something there on campus. He said, just go
Speaker 3: up the library. And I say, I know right where
Speaker 3: the newspapers are. They have all the newspapers. So I
Speaker 3: went down to the library that evening and rode my
Speaker 3: bike down there and went up and talked to the
Speaker 3: library and she says, yeah, I've got the copy of
Speaker 3: the tant here. I got several copies of it. You
Speaker 3: want one? And I said, yeah, I love one, and
Speaker 3: so I did. I grabbed that original copy and I
Speaker 3: went home and I consumed him and I read it
Speaker 3: a second time. I read a third time, and I'm going, wow,
Speaker 3: this is cool. There's there's dermal ridges, there's fingerprints on
Speaker 3: the footprints. And in that article he was talking about
Speaker 3: Grover Krantz was they were interviewing him. They was talking
Speaker 3: about how he had contacted some of his sources that
Speaker 3: have lots of plaster casts and had them go through
Speaker 3: their collection. And when they did, they called me back
Speaker 3: and said, yeah, there's there's a good number of them
Speaker 3: that have fingerprints on them, because this guy didn't have
Speaker 3: any clue what they were. And the guy was Bob Chedmus.
Speaker 3: He had the world's large fats collecting, you know, he
Speaker 3: when he was young, he would he would go all
Speaker 3: over the United States poor cast teach people how to
Speaker 3: do that, but he would collect them and he even
Speaker 3: drained one of the ponds I think it was upon
Speaker 3: Blue Creek Mountain down in the Bluff Creek area. He
Speaker 3: drained the pond because he saw there were footprints and
Speaker 3: when he did he was able to cast leg and
Speaker 3: butt prints. So the Scukum cast that was taken in
Speaker 3: two thousand wasn't the first butt cast that had ever
Speaker 3: been taken. And then I met another guy who actually
Speaker 3: he didn't cast them, but he took lots of pictures
Speaker 3: and measured and put his AR fifteen down next to
Speaker 3: the to the butt prints. There were two butt prints
Speaker 3: in the snow. And this was in the Blue Mountains,
Speaker 3: really close to the ski area down there called Bluewood.
Speaker 3: And I was a skier too, so we'd be up
Speaker 3: skiing on the different I knew all the different ski areas,
Speaker 3: and in the summertime I would walk around some of
Speaker 3: these skiers and look for Sasquatch stuff like Stevens Pass
Speaker 3: no Qualmy paths. I'd be up at Alpa Pol climbing
Speaker 3: the hills because I love the hike and looking for
Speaker 3: Sasquatch stuff. I never found anything on those trips, but
Speaker 3: I've heard lots of great stories of people who go
Speaker 3: in and they clean those trails during the late summer
Speaker 3: to get ready for the ski season, and they do
Speaker 3: bump into them, or they actually found tracks in different
Speaker 3: evidence and so forth. So that's just fascinating to me
Speaker 3: coming from that that era. I was a ski instructor
Speaker 3: for a lot of years also, and then I raced
Speaker 3: up at Crystal Mountain Athletic Club up at Crystal Mount,
Speaker 3: Washington when I was in high school. But so I
Speaker 3: was always kind of tied to the Eskiri as well.
Speaker 3: Skiers right in the middle of Sasquatch country, especially in Washington.
Speaker 1: One hundred per one hundred percent, I mean you are
Speaker 1: right right there where where the action should be should
Speaker 1: be happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that launched everything and that article on Tacoma News
Speaker 3: Tribune started off with Grover Grants talking about something that
Speaker 3: happened on Tiger Canyon Road in the Blue Mountains next
Speaker 3: to a watershed. It was the Wall Wall Watershed and
Speaker 3: that at this place called Bear Saddle, which you don't
Speaker 3: find it on a map or anything. You just got
Speaker 3: to know where it's at. They found a bed. They
Speaker 3: found fifty sixty tracks, different size, three different individuals, which
Speaker 3: was amazing to me. And I mean, all this was
Speaker 3: in that article, that Tacoma Newstribune article that I went
Speaker 3: and got the CWU library that my dad told me
Speaker 3: to go check out, and all this information was there.
Speaker 3: And I can't even remember what there the week it was,
Speaker 3: but I made plans. I was taken off. I was
Speaker 3: cutting class on Friday and I'm hento the Blue Mountains.
Speaker 3: I want to go find this Tiger Canyon Road. And
Speaker 3: that really launched me into it. So here I am
Speaker 3: a college student, you know, football player at the university,
Speaker 3: and I'm running off to look for Sasquatch.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So you went after it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah I did. And I went down there by
Speaker 3: myself and then my brother was playing football at Walla
Speaker 3: Walla he was there on a scholarship too. He was
Speaker 3: a running back, and anyways, he went with me the
Speaker 3: second time I went up and we had some pretty
Speaker 3: amazing experiences up there. We found broken tree branches and
Speaker 3: this is on the north side. This was up by
Speaker 3: Stuart's cabin. They call it. It's up by Lewis Peak.
Speaker 3: Those that are from the Blue Mountains area, hey, you
Speaker 3: know it. And I ended up spending while I was
Speaker 3: in college, probably about four years, really doing in depth.
Speaker 3: Every other week I was down to the Blue Mountains again,
Speaker 3: my wife would go with me. And after a while,
Speaker 3: my wife said, I think they know when we're coming.
Speaker 3: They seem to be all gathered around our camp area
Speaker 3: and they'll vocalize, they'll leave footprints, they'll leave out gifts.
Speaker 3: All this stuff was going on in the eighties and
Speaker 3: I cast quite a few nice footprints from nineteen eighty
Speaker 3: seven forward. But that was in the Blue Mountains and
Speaker 3: I did a lot of study back there, a lot
Speaker 3: of running those trails. And that was when I was young,
Speaker 3: so I could I could move really good at that time.
Speaker 2: So what kind of no.
Speaker 1: We all are getting there? So what kind of gifts
Speaker 1: were you? Were you receiving in that area.
Speaker 3: It was interesting because I would walk along past something
Speaker 3: like a sawd off tree, and so you got a
Speaker 3: big tree trunk. And in the middle of that tree trunk.
Speaker 3: The next day there's a rock that's about six by
Speaker 3: six sitting on it. It's just a round river rock
Speaker 3: and you're up on the mountaintop and it's all jagged
Speaker 3: rocks up to there's no river rocks there. They carried
Speaker 3: that river rock from down to the south fork of
Speaker 3: the walla wall and put it on that stump for me,
Speaker 3: right and I had to walk by to go to
Speaker 3: my camp, and there's nobody else camp there. This was
Speaker 3: a d duck springs that happened. And I said, Alison,
Speaker 3: I think they left that rock for us, and she said, no,
Speaker 3: they wouldn't do that, and I said, well I would they.
Speaker 3: I didn't know anything about gifting and never heard anything
Speaker 3: about it, and so we would do things like we
Speaker 3: would make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and set
Speaker 3: it on the stump and it'd be gone. Well, you know,
Speaker 3: a bear could have got that or anything. We're looking
Speaker 3: around for sign maybe a raccoon grabbed it. You know,
Speaker 3: it could have been a raven because they're big enough
Speaker 3: to fly down and carry off a peanut butter and
Speaker 3: jelly sandwich. But then if you do that and you
Speaker 3: have a rock setting there afterwards, that's pretty good indication
Speaker 3: there was an exchange.
Speaker 2: That makes sense.
Speaker 1: So you're having stuff happen at d Ducks Springs prior
Speaker 1: to when the Freeman Foodage was filmed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was usually our camping spot we would camp,
Speaker 3: and the reason is because the pond was nice. It
Speaker 3: was great for I mean, after two days you get
Speaker 3: pretty starchy, and it's kind of nice to be able
Speaker 3: to jump into the water that's deep enough that you
Speaker 3: can actually get cleaned up. So, yeah, we had a
Speaker 3: lot of activity there. We had a big stump. It
Speaker 3: was a cedar log of bullet and what they do
Speaker 3: is they take those in and they cut those into
Speaker 3: shingles or whatever. Anyways, it was by itself been there
Speaker 3: for years, and the dirt had kind of piled up
Speaker 3: around the sides of it, and the sasquatch had taken
Speaker 3: and got his fingers underneath it and flipped the thing
Speaker 3: over and then apparently was eating the bugs underneath it.
Speaker 3: That's the only thing we could figure and it looked
Speaker 3: like he worked over the log too, because there were
Speaker 3: like beetles and things like that all over. And I'm
Speaker 3: sure that was was just a snack form. But I
Speaker 3: had a great footprint, and that would have been June twelfth,
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty seven, and that was a cast of Earl.
Speaker 3: And I say Earl. I'm not even sure if it
Speaker 3: was West Summerlin or if it was Grover Krantz and
Speaker 3: Greg May that had named him Earl for sure, but
Speaker 3: it was the only time I ever saw his footprint,
Speaker 3: and I never cast it again, just that one time,
Speaker 3: and it was it's a very strange foot his. You know,
Speaker 3: a lot of people think that Sasquatch footprints are like ours,
Speaker 3: all the toes are together, But the majority of prints
Speaker 3: that you find there's going to be a lot of
Speaker 3: movement in the toes and a lot of spreading. Their
Speaker 3: feet are wild. They're not contained in a shoe, and
Speaker 3: so they don't become what would you say, confined, and
Speaker 3: our feet when we walk, we can see, you know,
Speaker 3: the peas of the pod going across it are all
Speaker 3: nice and neat, and they look like a human track. Well,
Speaker 3: you do get those with a Sasquatch. But their toes,
Speaker 3: I mean, they can pick up pencils and throw a
Speaker 3: match you with their feet if they wanted to. They're
Speaker 3: very They can do a lot more than we can
Speaker 3: because they've never had that restriction of shoes like we have.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so anyways, when I found that I cast
Speaker 3: that immediately West Summerland Swede recognized it. Sweet Summerland Grover.
Speaker 3: I showed him and he said, oh yeah, and then
Speaker 3: he pulls out a drawer full of about five or
Speaker 3: six casts that were the same one. And the track
Speaker 3: that I have is eighteen inches long. It's fairly good sized,
Speaker 3: and it's a narrow foot. And typically a narrow foot
Speaker 3: accompanies a female sasquatch, and that the males are a
Speaker 3: lot whiter in the feet. But this Earl guy, he
Speaker 3: has a real narrow foot, or had a really narrow
Speaker 3: foot at least in nineteen eighty seven he did. And
Speaker 3: then later up above DTA and if you look on
Speaker 3: a Google Maps or a topographical map USGS topic graphical map,
Speaker 3: you can see just above where the junction of Skyline
Speaker 3: Road and Tiger Canyon Road come together, and it is
Speaker 3: literally not even a quarter mile from d Duck Springs.
Speaker 3: You're really kind of in that area where several you
Speaker 3: have the Walla Walla Watershed, which is part of the
Speaker 3: drainage into that watershed starts right there at that junction
Speaker 3: of Skyline Road and Tiger Canyon, but also the south
Speaker 3: fork of the Walla Walla and also all the things
Speaker 3: flow off to the east there go down into the
Speaker 3: Milk Creek Canyon, which run into the Winnaha or the
Speaker 3: Wanaha River, depending on who you're talking to, So they
Speaker 3: pronounce it different over there, the Wanaha or the Wennaha.
Speaker 3: And I never did get a saul at which one
Speaker 3: it was. Dance Ortune would call it something else, and
Speaker 3: then Swede would call it. So I've got you guys
Speaker 3: are the locals, and you don't even call it the
Speaker 3: same anyway.
Speaker 2: That's really funny.
Speaker 1: Did you have any sightings during those college years prior
Speaker 1: to the nineties.
Speaker 3: No. Actually, the only time I can actually say I
Speaker 3: had sighting was when we were at Lake Plaza trailhead,
Speaker 3: which is in the Indian Heaven Wilderness above Scuok of Meadows,
Speaker 3: and it was early in the morning. It was not light,
Speaker 3: but it was kitting light. You could tell the sky
Speaker 3: was starting to change. It's kind of that tweener. And
Speaker 3: something went busting through the woods. It was right by
Speaker 3: our camp and I'm using the bathroom and I'm getting
Speaker 3: walking back to the tent. As I'm walking back, there's
Speaker 3: this loud noise and the first thing you think of
Speaker 3: is elk. But when you look at what's moving through
Speaker 3: the brush, you can't see. It's still too dark, but
Speaker 3: it's upright, and I'm going, well, that's not a human.
Speaker 3: And that was much bigger been a human anyway. And
Speaker 3: so I think at that point I could say that
Speaker 3: I actually had a sighting. And like like just like
Speaker 3: in the Blue Mountains, when we would go down to
Speaker 3: the Indian Heaven Wilderness and we would camp at the
Speaker 3: Lake Placid trailhead, we would have gift exchange. They would
Speaker 3: vocalize we learned a ton there and that was that
Speaker 3: was my favorite camp when we were in the in
Speaker 3: the Scuoka Meadow area and we had a lot of
Speaker 3: activity happened there over the years. What happened as as
Speaker 3: a school teacher and football would start typically around the
Speaker 3: tenth of August, you know, the eighth to tenth, the sixth,
Speaker 3: somewhere in there. So that last week in July and
Speaker 3: the first beginning of the first week in August, we
Speaker 3: would go up ten days, fourteen days. The kids because
Speaker 3: they would be in football when they got into high school,
Speaker 3: but we would go up there and we would camp
Speaker 3: during that time and pick wild huckleberries, and we'd look
Speaker 3: for sasquatch stuff and call blast and I'd get out
Speaker 3: call blasting speakers from the BFRO because I was part
Speaker 3: of the BFRO then, and my kids grew up thinking
Speaker 3: that you didn't just go camping somewhere, you went looking
Speaker 3: for Bigfoot. Don't doesn't everybody do that? No, it was
Speaker 3: just the Lindley family.
Speaker 1: That's incredible. And I can cut the name out too
Speaker 1: if we need to. I'm just reminding myself during editing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you don't need to. That's okay, okay, because
Speaker 3: it's it's a trail head that is really popular and
Speaker 3: the lake is beautiful. It's it's just a small lake.
Speaker 3: It's I don't think it's deeper than twelve feet at
Speaker 3: the deepest point, but it's warm water, great for swimming.
Speaker 3: And it was only about I'm thinking I was a
Speaker 3: half mile. I've been three quarters of a mile to
Speaker 3: the lake and then back out again and it's pretty
Speaker 3: flat and you're in all this big old girl timber.
Speaker 3: It's just beautiful in there. And so yeah, it's a
Speaker 3: great and it's that it's such a hotbed. That's whole Scuokum,
Speaker 3: the whole area, that Scuokam meadows area that drain comes
Speaker 3: into the Lewis River that is in Washington State. It's
Speaker 3: just a phenomenal place. So the Blue Mountains was a
Speaker 3: major research area from you, especially during college. But we
Speaker 3: would go back often, and that was where I met
Speaker 3: Paul Freeman too, and spent quite a bit of time
Speaker 3: with him. The whole time that I knew Paul, he
Speaker 3: was pretty much crippled. He couldn't get out and do
Speaker 3: what he used to do. And so I was the
Speaker 3: young kid and he would say, now, if you go
Speaker 3: right down there in the south Fork, he says you
Speaker 3: when you get down there, I once you get right
Speaker 3: in the bottom, there's a grassy area down and then
Speaker 3: there's usually footprints right along the south Fork. So go
Speaker 3: down and check that out. For me, I was the
Speaker 3: one with the mini backpack, threw it on and down
Speaker 3: over the hill I went. But that was when I
Speaker 3: was younger, Paul would sit and wait for me.
Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness, that is so wild. What So that's
Speaker 1: it was that late nineties.
Speaker 3: No, that would have been eighty. See, I was at
Speaker 3: Central I graduated in eighty eight and I started in
Speaker 3: eighty five at Central Wash University. So got my teaching
Speaker 3: degree and then started coaching football and track and teaching history.
Speaker 3: I was teaching history at Person. Later they switched me
Speaker 3: over to doing shops, so I did woodshop, metal shop, drafting,
Speaker 3: you know, all that stuff. So I loved teaching. Teaching
Speaker 3: was my thing. I did that for fifteen years. And
Speaker 3: I've told people before that I didn't leave teaching because
Speaker 3: I didn't like it. I loved teaching. It was. It
Speaker 3: was really awesome for me. And those were some of
Speaker 3: my most productive years with Sasquatch research too, because of students.
Speaker 3: My goodness, I had ears everywhere. You know, You've got
Speaker 3: I don't know, one hundred and twenty kids that are
Speaker 3: seeing your class every day, and you're living in a
Speaker 3: place like Morton, Washington, where I was teaching, and the
Speaker 3: Sasquatch activity was just all the time. I mean, it
Speaker 3: was absolutely phenomenal. Some of the stories that I've got
Speaker 3: from from those years when I was teaching, So Morgan
Speaker 3: kind of became the Highway twenty twelve corridor kind of
Speaker 3: became the research area later. But when I was in
Speaker 3: the Blue Mountains, it was when we were in college,
Speaker 3: and so that would have been from eighty eight to
Speaker 3: about eighty six. I think eighty six to eighty eighty eight. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that would be right, because it was December of eighty
Speaker 3: eighth that I graduated, so did my student teaching I
Speaker 3: was done.
Speaker 1: So just to make sure that I have this correct.
Speaker 1: So you were hanging out with Paul Freeman prior to
Speaker 1: when he recorded.
Speaker 2: The video in ninety two.
Speaker 3: Yes, when that was recorded, I knew right where it was.
Speaker 3: I know that tree. As a matter of fact, the
Speaker 3: stump that Earl ripped out of the ground to eat
Speaker 3: the bugs underneath it is lane right in front of
Speaker 3: that tree it walks by, looks like a Christmas tree.
Speaker 3: That's it's right below there. After he ripped it out
Speaker 3: of the ground, that somebody cut it up and used
Speaker 3: it for firewood. Right there, there's kind of a cool
Speaker 3: little campground just right there where the sasquatch went into
Speaker 3: the brush and then picked up the baby. I don't
Speaker 3: know if you've talked about that at all or anything else,
Speaker 3: but there's definitely a baby there, and nobody knew about
Speaker 3: that for years. I'm not even sure. Michael Freeman and
Speaker 3: his book talks about it and then has a picture
Speaker 3: of it and what he shows on his little barcodes
Speaker 3: in his book. Oh my goodness, that was so well done,
Speaker 3: and I'm really proud of Michael. Michael was just a
Speaker 3: little kid though, when I knew his dad, and usually
Speaker 3: the first place I would go is I would go
Speaker 3: over to West Summerland's house because I always knew I
Speaker 3: had to bed there if I needed a place to stay.
Speaker 3: And the next place that goes over to Paul's. And
Speaker 3: when I came into town, I would usually call Paul
Speaker 3: and he'd come over to West's and so we'd all
Speaker 3: be there together and we'd spend time. But they were
Speaker 3: kind of my action. Later Vance Orchard would come into
Speaker 3: the scene, but that would be a few years later.
Speaker 3: They would talk of me, but we hadn't met or anything,
Speaker 3: so that would come later.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that before in the late eighties, there
Speaker 1: was a time when Paul wasn't able to move around.
Speaker 1: He would have you guess certain areas and you would
Speaker 1: do it. Okay, okay. At a later time he was
Speaker 1: able to record the footage. Yeah, yes, okay.
Speaker 3: That was much later. Yeah, he walked around with the
Speaker 3: cane even then when I was in college back in
Speaker 3: the late eighties, and he was pretty much stoved up.
Speaker 3: I mean, he knew right where to go. His map
Speaker 3: on the wall at Cliff Barackman has now down at
Speaker 3: his mount Hood museum, and but that was his his map,
Speaker 3: and he had that on his wall, took up a
Speaker 3: whole wall, and I copied Paul. I went and got
Speaker 3: a bunch of USGS maps of areas that I would
Speaker 3: be researching, like scucer meadows, and I'd put them on
Speaker 3: my wall. And I remember when we bought this house
Speaker 3: here in Roseberg, my wife said, you can't put maps
Speaker 3: on the wall here, honey, I love you.
Speaker 2: Just one, just one wall.
Speaker 1: No, So anyway, yeah, no, no, that's true though.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, so me mullti filed with a map.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you've got the time when you're hanging out
Speaker 1: with Freeman, and then after that then you move up
Speaker 1: to Morton to become a school teacher, where then to
Speaker 1: have the kids bringing you in these accounts all the time.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. Yeah, I mean story after story. You know.
Speaker 3: I saw where John and Sarah Brown in Highway Highway
Speaker 3: twelve quarter, which was really well done, and I know
Speaker 3: at least two of those are my my research that
Speaker 3: they pulled from that. And then they were talking to
Speaker 3: Taylor what's his first name something Taylor, And I guess
Speaker 3: he's the biggest BFR Scott Taylor, Thank you. He's the
Speaker 3: biggest BFROX investigator in Washington. He's done more investigations than anybody.
Speaker 3: I'd like to meet the guy, but I would like
Speaker 3: to compare notes more than anything. Because I got when
Speaker 3: the Chronicle, which is the newspaper, it's a local newspaper
Speaker 3: from Centralli and Shahalis did the interview with me. I
Speaker 3: took my BFRO work because the BFR, when you put
Speaker 3: an investigative report in, you might get one out of
Speaker 3: ten that actually goes on the website. So nine of
Speaker 3: those are setting out there in what's called the flats,
Speaker 3: and the flats are the real the real dot documentation
Speaker 3: what's going on in an area, and you don't get that.
Speaker 3: You only get like a taste and they'll put more
Speaker 3: recent ones up too, and they'll take some of the
Speaker 3: older ones off. But then you're kind of losing some
Speaker 3: of the importance of where you're seeing characteristics repeat themselves
Speaker 3: over and over, and if you're doing research on that
Speaker 3: and you're trying to just you know, learn more about
Speaker 3: the actual family group that you're that you're researching, you
Speaker 3: lose a lot of that because history they just keep repeating.
Speaker 3: It's just like we do we have family traditions, and
Speaker 3: so do they, and so there they have patterns that
Speaker 3: you can see in areas that are unique to that group,
Speaker 3: even though they're the same with groups all across the
Speaker 3: United States and probably around the world that are very similar.
Speaker 3: In a family group, they all have little nuances. Some
Speaker 3: family groups hate humans and don't want anything to do
Speaker 3: with them. Other ones think it's fun to play games
Speaker 3: and you know, doing pranks on you. Others like the gift.
Speaker 3: They all have different things. Some of them like to sing, apparently,
Speaker 3: the ones that are down by John and Sarah Browns.
Speaker 3: I've listened to some of their recordings that they've gotten,
Speaker 3: and that fascinates me because I've never been around singing sasquatches.
Speaker 3: If I did, it would have been when I was
Speaker 3: a little boy on South Hill Pewallup, because they had
Speaker 3: stuff that sounds like John and Sarah's where it's almost
Speaker 3: like there's a female singing, and I don't I think
Speaker 3: the males probably sing too, But I was just really
Speaker 3: fascinated listening to John and Sarah talking about the singing
Speaker 3: that they were recording, and then listening to it, I'm going,
Speaker 3: you know, that might have been out there in South
Speaker 3: Hill Pewallup. We may have had that singing going on too.
Speaker 3: But each family group point is, each family group is
Speaker 3: so unique to itself, and generations pass and they're still
Speaker 3: doing the same type of things. Then there's another thing
Speaker 3: that happens. If you've got a research group and it
Speaker 3: seems to be really open and all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: everything closes down and stops. Typically what's happened is whoever
Speaker 3: the lead female, the dominant male is, they've passed away.
Speaker 3: And now the policy changes, and usually it'll be the
Speaker 3: policy changes to whether it's going to interact with humans
Speaker 3: or not. And for the most part, they really are
Speaker 3: scared of us because we do stupid stuff. We get
Speaker 3: scared and then we shoot and when don't we worry
Speaker 3: about asking questions later. We just shoot. But that's the
Speaker 3: bad thing for him. And so a whole tribe, a
Speaker 3: whole family group of Sasquatch can turn on you, and
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, your research area is really worthless
Speaker 3: because they're not going to interact with you anymore because
Speaker 3: someone's passed away in the family and they don't approve
Speaker 3: of that anymore. So it's kind of like our families,
Speaker 3: not much different.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure I'm gonna hold off on that question
Speaker 1: for later. So then, so you have this time where
Speaker 1: you're a teacher, you're getting reports. Did you get any
Speaker 1: reports out of Packwood?
Speaker 3: Yes? Yes, yeah, really good, really good reports out of Packwood.
Speaker 3: That's kind of an interesting area because there's multiple rivers
Speaker 3: that come together in the Packwood area, especially upstream from Packwood.
Speaker 3: But man, I've got some that are just astounding. Let
Speaker 3: me give you this a real quick example. There are
Speaker 3: two teachers from I believe the South Kidsap School district.
Speaker 3: One of them taught the high school, and I think
Speaker 3: it was the husband. He was like a football coach
Speaker 3: like I was, and his wife was a middle school teacher,
Speaker 3: and so they have a cabin. Their family has a
Speaker 3: cabin over over the other side of White Pass. What's
Speaker 3: the big lake over there before you get to Yakama.
Speaker 3: Of course it's Uh. I can't think of the name
Speaker 3: of the lake. There's a great big lake there. Anyways,
Speaker 3: there's cabins and stuff and they have a cabin there.
Speaker 3: So they were on their way to this cabin. They
Speaker 3: had two kids, and each of their kids had a
Speaker 3: friend with them, so there are four kids in the car.
Speaker 3: It was a mini van. And as they got out
Speaker 3: of Packwood, they were talking. They're good excited because they
Speaker 3: know they're going to go for White Pass. It had
Speaker 3: just gotten dark, the sun had just gone down, and
Speaker 3: as they're going up the road, there was a sasquat
Speaker 3: standing by uh right along the side of the road,
Speaker 3: and it was about eight feet tall. Black. The headlights
Speaker 3: hit it, lit it up, and they went by it
Speaker 3: without even slowing down, and the whole car just went silent.
Speaker 3: When they supped, they were all talking and they were
Speaker 3: excited about going to the cabin and they're going to
Speaker 3: be a White Pass pretty soon and it's getting dark
Speaker 3: and it's just the electricity and the car was phenomenal,
Speaker 3: but they all went silent when they saw this thing
Speaker 3: standing by the side of the road, lit up by
Speaker 3: the headlights, and they went by it about ten feet
Speaker 3: away from it, you know, going fifty five miles an hour,
Speaker 3: and immediately they got maybe fifty yards down the road,
Speaker 3: they'd got to a stop and they flipped around. But
Speaker 3: as they did that, another car went past them, going
Speaker 3: the opposite direction, and they looked in the head and
Speaker 3: its brake lights came on and it slowed down. They
Speaker 3: flipped around, got in behind the other car and started
Speaker 3: going back to see if they could see it again.
Speaker 3: And they were all looking now on the left side
Speaker 3: instead of the right side, but it had crossed the
Speaker 3: road and it was on the right side now. And
Speaker 3: the wife said, I was in a passenger seat, and
Speaker 3: if my window was rolled down, it was walking so
Speaker 3: close to the line on the side of the road
Speaker 3: that I could have reached out and slapped its leg
Speaker 3: as we went by. And when they went by, the
Speaker 3: kids all said they could see the hair part, the
Speaker 3: long hair part as they went by from the car.
Speaker 3: And it was only going about thirty miles an hour
Speaker 3: at that point. It's going slow, but that's how close
Speaker 3: it was. To the road and they all saw it,
Speaker 3: all four kids and the two adults. And these are
Speaker 3: two school teachers. And I won't mention names.
Speaker 1: Right right, that's incredible, that is I mean, I've also
Speaker 1: heard there was an interview on the show where very
Speaker 1: similar where gentlemen was just driving through this Packwood area
Speaker 1: and death there was one right there, right on the
Speaker 1: side of the roads. Is so crazy, dude, my goodness.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. There's a place up there called Palisades and
Speaker 3: it's where the rock formations. It's really cool geological place.
Speaker 3: But the rock formations go up along this cliff, this
Speaker 3: huge cliff. And someone said that they did the rock
Speaker 3: not rock, but Sylvester Stallone's movie First Blood, when he's
Speaker 3: hanging off those palace, that's that's the Palisades. That's right there.
Speaker 3: After we get about Packwood and anyways, that area, there
Speaker 3: was a guy from Washington State Universe who's coming home
Speaker 3: from college. It was, you know, December. He's off for
Speaker 3: school and he's going back I believe to Seattle. Maybe
Speaker 3: he was going to tom I know he was going
Speaker 3: somewhere in the Pewtetownd area and that's where home was.
Speaker 3: And as he comes around the corner. This is up
Speaker 3: by palisades. He sees a bear squatting in the middle
Speaker 3: of the road, and it's it looks really funny the
Speaker 3: way it said. He's never seen a bear look like
Speaker 3: that before, and he's seen lots of bears, he said,
Speaker 3: and he's a hunter. Anyways. The thing is, he got
Speaker 3: he's slowed down because he wanted to really look at
Speaker 3: the bear. I mean, it's like two o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 3: there's nobody on the road. There's nobody there, and it's
Speaker 3: like December, and the thing stand up on two legs,
Speaker 3: turns and looks at him, and it's in the headlights,
Speaker 3: so he's getting a good look at it again. This
Speaker 3: is right a palisades, just above Packwood, and he he
Speaker 3: slowed down to almost a stop, and the thing finally turned,
Speaker 3: took one step and then another step over the guardrail
Speaker 3: and went down over the hill where the embankment is
Speaker 3: going down into that river down below. And he backed
Speaker 3: up to the spot where it was because he thought
Speaker 3: he saw something. And he looked and it had peeded
Speaker 3: in the middle of the road, and the pea was
Speaker 3: running down the road towards the side, you know, because
Speaker 3: the road slopes on those high high speed corners of
Speaker 3: the stuff, there's a slope to it, and the pea
Speaker 3: is running down in streams like a little river. And
Speaker 3: it was like a confirmation. I did just see that.
Speaker 3: I did, And he thought it it's funny that it
Speaker 3: was squatting. He was always wondering if it was a female,
Speaker 3: but there was no indication it was a female. It
Speaker 3: didn't look like it had breasts or had any shape
Speaker 3: to it. When I talked to him. He was talking
Speaker 3: to him on the phone, and you could tell his
Speaker 3: voice was quavering. The fear was coming back what he
Speaker 3: had experienced that night, and that almost a terror, and
Speaker 3: it was in his voice. You could hear it. I says,
Speaker 3: you sound shook up, and he says, yeah, I'm reliving it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, things like that. You watch people's are you
Speaker 3: listen to the way they're talking, and you can hear
Speaker 3: a heightened sense of urgency all of a sudden, as
Speaker 3: it all comes rushing back to him and they're remembering
Speaker 3: that night. In nights, the smells everything that that was
Speaker 3: involved in that, and sometimes they come to tears. As
Speaker 3: you're doing investigative work and talking with people it's pretty interesting.
Speaker 3: It can be quite like changing.
Speaker 1: It really can be. In especially when you're able to
Speaker 1: talk to that person face to face and they're right
Speaker 1: in front of you. It can get very intense very quickly.
Speaker 1: I remember that from my first year at Oakridge. So
Speaker 1: then after that is that when you start getting involved
Speaker 1: with the bf R O. Then after that period.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. Boy, there was a lot that happened
Speaker 3: when I got into the BFRO that was, like I say,
Speaker 3: it's a it's a mini chapter in the right chapter.
Speaker 3: But it was at that time I'd been involved with
Speaker 3: just a lot of people and not really an organization.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to necessarily be attached to anything. I
Speaker 3: had a guy who was a weather man up in
Speaker 3: Seattle and his name was Bevitocaranta. I don't know what
Speaker 3: happened to him. I tried to find him, but I
Speaker 3: can't find him. He had a buddy named Steve Hack
Speaker 3: who saw a sasquatch over in the Potholes Reservoir in Washington,
Speaker 3: out in the middle of the desert, walking along the
Speaker 3: ridge line as he was fish as he was crappie
Speaker 3: fishing out on Pottles Reservoir, and he was with several people,
Speaker 3: so all three of them saw it, and you know,
Speaker 3: you could see they had shorter legs, long body, long
Speaker 3: arms down to the knees walking along this ridge. It
Speaker 3: walked like a human, but it didn't walk like a human.
Speaker 3: And at that point he got involved in this. His
Speaker 3: name was Steve Hack, and so veto and Steve kind
Speaker 3: of joined me, and they kind of kept me tied
Speaker 3: in because at that time I was involved with school
Speaker 3: at the university, and so we at that point we
Speaker 3: went more universal. I mean, we would go down and
Speaker 3: we investigate stuff down by Mount Hood, we'd be up
Speaker 3: by Steven's Pass, we'd go up to the Mount Baker area.
Speaker 3: There were just other places that I took them because
Speaker 3: I was aware of what had happened up at Scenic
Speaker 3: multiple times with my cousin who lived up there with
Speaker 3: her family and raised four kids up there at Scenek
Speaker 3: her her husban and worked on the was it the
Speaker 3: Pacific the Great Northern Railway anyways, the big tunnel that
Speaker 3: goes through Steven's Pass goes underneath the rocks and pops
Speaker 3: out the other side, and the ski resorts up on top. Anyways,
Speaker 3: they lived right there at scenic and they had sasquatch.
Speaker 3: Stuff happened all the time today, So I took them
Speaker 3: up there. I took Steve and Vido up there and
Speaker 3: showed him this area. Well after that they would make
Speaker 3: return trips up there. And just shortly after that, there
Speaker 3: was a guy that was camped out in his I
Speaker 3: think it was a station wagon, and he had he
Speaker 3: had the tailgate of the station wagon down the old
Speaker 3: station wagons, and he had his sleeping bag and he
Speaker 3: was sleeping back there and he had his feet out
Speaker 3: towards the out and then his head was inside in
Speaker 3: case it rained. You know, if your speed get wet,
Speaker 3: no big deal. But he's sleeping in his car, and
Speaker 3: a sasquatch grabbed him by the feet in his sleeping
Speaker 3: bag and rip him out of the station wagon and
Speaker 3: drug him across.
Speaker 4: The dirt this camp area, and then left him there
Speaker 4: and just started jabbering, I'm doing that right, chatter as
Speaker 4: it's walking away.
Speaker 3: It's like, okay, now you get out of here.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's really not funny, But in a way kind
Speaker 1: of is because I get I laugh when.
Speaker 2: I'm neus, But my goodness, that's wild.
Speaker 3: I know. So Vito and Steve, they started they started
Speaker 3: cruising up there a lot more without me once I
Speaker 3: showed him that area.
Speaker 2: So did you get to talk to that guy?
Speaker 3: Sorry, no, I didn't. That was just a report that
Speaker 3: came through and that might have been you know that
Speaker 3: that was all pre b f R. So I'm not
Speaker 3: sure how I got that information, but it was fascinating.
Speaker 3: I don't think I got it. I think Steve and
Speaker 3: Vito got it. And I had just showed him the
Speaker 3: the area of the scenic area, and how my cousin's
Speaker 3: stories about sasquatches when maybe out picking huckleberries, and and
Speaker 3: they'd be right in the patch with them, the sasquatch
Speaker 3: would be on the other side picking berries, and they'd
Speaker 3: be on one side all the kids, and Mom would
Speaker 3: just okay, I want everyone just to slowly pick berries,
Speaker 3: and let's back out of this patch. It doesn't belong
Speaker 3: to us, it belongs to this thing. And all the
Speaker 3: kids would do it, Mom said, And I think that
Speaker 3: they had some interesting things to my one of my cousins,
Speaker 3: she's just really fascinating with the whole sasquatch thing, and
Speaker 3: she'll call me and talk to me about it every
Speaker 3: once in a while and her husband just puts up
Speaker 3: with their kind of like my wife does me. She
Speaker 3: grew up there on the up in the scenic area
Speaker 3: by Steven's Past, okay, and so she was pretty much
Speaker 3: into it like her mom was a But all the
Speaker 3: brothers and stuff, I don't think they could really care less.
Speaker 3: And again I grew up I was all about Bigfoot.
Speaker 3: My dad was too, And so we'd sit there and
Speaker 3: listen to Judy tell all the stories about what had happened.
Speaker 3: Other things too, like running a bear off or porch
Speaker 3: and electrifying the garbage can to get the bear to
Speaker 3: leave it alone. That worked anyways. Just living out in
Speaker 3: the mountains, I mean, if you're living it, you know,
Speaker 3: three thousand and thirty five hundred feet elevation, and you
Speaker 3: got a railroad going by all the time and sasquatches around,
Speaker 3: you're not to mention bears. It's pretty pretty interesting for stories,
Speaker 3: just regular life stories.
Speaker 1: I learned that after I left Oakridge and start driving
Speaker 1: around how high the cascades really are. You're not up
Speaker 1: in them when you're in Oakridge, but when you start
Speaker 1: crossing the cascades, it's a whole different ball game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it passes forty five hundred feet and five thousand
Speaker 3: feet some of them. I know it's close to six
Speaker 3: thousand down by Diamond Lake and Crater Lake and doesn't
Speaker 3: look like that. And you know, now that's kind of
Speaker 3: where I have focused my attention. Had we had I
Speaker 3: got to reconnect again with Jeff Meldrum and at the
Speaker 3: Glide Sasquatch Festival, and I had been let's see, this
Speaker 3: is my fourth year I attended that. I was there
Speaker 3: for the very first one. I was the only one
Speaker 3: that got there, and I had clap plaster cast, I
Speaker 3: had Sasquatch stuff, and it wasn't really about Sasquatch. They
Speaker 3: were just using that to raise money for the fire victims,
Speaker 3: right and the people there, So they continued to do that.
Speaker 3: That's what it's. That's where the money goes. But I
Speaker 3: was the only one there, and so I come in
Speaker 3: with my six suitcases of casts because before this I
Speaker 3: used to go It's I don't even know how it started,
Speaker 3: but I started doing universities and it started out I
Speaker 3: lectured in front of the whole anthropology department over at
Speaker 3: Eastern Washington University. But Central I started. Maybe it's central
Speaker 3: right where I was going to school, because I know
Speaker 3: I did several of them there where I would do
Speaker 3: the you know the halls, they would have a hall
Speaker 3: and then they would advertise me. I would say, that's
Speaker 3: the only thing. I don't want any pay. I'm not
Speaker 3: doing this for money, but I am doing this for reports,
Speaker 3: and I would like to get as many reports as
Speaker 3: I can while i'm here. So I want you to advertise,
Speaker 3: and I want you to take out an advertisement and
Speaker 3: be running that advertisement for at least a month before
Speaker 3: I give my presentation. I want people coming in from outside.
Speaker 3: And they were always standing room only. I mean it
Speaker 3: was just packed and people would come in because people
Speaker 3: have seen these things and just looking at the advertisement,
Speaker 3: they would think, you know, maybe this is where I
Speaker 3: can get this off my chest. And they would come
Speaker 3: in and they were it's almost like a confession, but yeah.
Speaker 3: And so they would come in and I would get
Speaker 3: all these reports. And that was really good with Vito
Speaker 3: and Steve because they could follow up a lot more
Speaker 3: effectively than I could. Have more time free time that
Speaker 3: they could do that. But with three of us going
Speaker 3: at it, you know, Steve would take one and I
Speaker 3: would take one, and veto would take one and then
Speaker 3: we'd we'd go and we talked to him, call him
Speaker 3: on the phone, get information, go out and meet him
Speaker 3: at the spot, and so there was always something going on.
Speaker 3: We were pretty active at that time. This was all
Speaker 3: before the VFRO. Then I'm trying to remember when Russ's
Speaker 3: or when ray Crow's Bigfoot conference in Hillsborough was. He
Speaker 3: probably had several of them there. I only went to one,
Speaker 3: but that was where I met Bob Titmas and at
Speaker 3: that meeting, Rick Noll and Tom Powell and Jeff Lentley
Speaker 3: would recommend me to Matt Moneymaker to become an investigator
Speaker 3: with the BFROS. So I'm thinking it was ninety nine
Speaker 3: that took place. But as they were cleaning up and
Speaker 3: people were picking up chairs and picking up tables, I
Speaker 3: sat right there it Ron mooreheads booth, and he and
Speaker 3: I talked for two hours. He was a Christian, I'm
Speaker 3: a Christian, and we're talking about Jesus Christ, but we're
Speaker 3: talking about sasquatch also and what he felt they were.
Speaker 3: And at that point I was very very strong, this
Speaker 3: is gonna be maybe one of your questions. I was
Speaker 3: very strong into the gigantopithecus. I believe this was a
Speaker 3: biological hair leaves, you know, scat. You can hear them.
Speaker 3: The evidence is obvious that this is a physical being.
Speaker 3: There's I still believe that today this is a physical
Speaker 3: being we're dealing with. But he was telling me about
Speaker 3: you know, Genesis chapter six, verse four. But actually Genesis
Speaker 3: chapter six all the way through about eight it talks
Speaker 3: about this inner coupling of fallen angels with human women
Speaker 3: and producing an offspring called the Nephelin. And its kind
Speaker 3: of interesting today. I pulled up the Passion translation just
Speaker 3: wanted to see what it said about it. And it's
Speaker 3: interesting because in verse two it says, I'm reading right
Speaker 3: from the Passion. Divine beings found them very appealing talking
Speaker 3: about the women, the daughters of men, and so they
Speaker 3: took the women they wanted as their wives. And Ya
Speaker 3: always said, my spirit will not strive with humanity, and
Speaker 3: definitely for their mortal and the lifespan shall be shortened
Speaker 3: to one hundred and twenty years. Back then and later
Speaker 3: there were giants on the earth who were born as
Speaker 3: a result of this unholy union of heavenly beings with
Speaker 3: human daughters. And they were the mighty ones of old,
Speaker 3: the warriors of renowned, And that's actually that's verse four
Speaker 3: where it talks about that, and then they talk about
Speaker 3: how mankind was evil all the time, and so God
Speaker 3: brought the flood. The point is is that that was
Speaker 3: Ron's position, and he was trying to explain to me
Speaker 3: and convince me. And then he talked about the Anakin
Speaker 3: and he started going down the list of all these
Speaker 3: different names that the Nephylin went by afterwards, because you know,
Speaker 3: Goliath and David, that whole story that was he was
Speaker 3: part of the Anik family, and the Anek were part
Speaker 3: of the Nephilin. They were the sentence of the nephilin anikwork.
Speaker 3: And then there was the Edomites and they were giants,
Speaker 3: and the Edomites were actually referred to as harry beans.
Speaker 3: And then if you read in the Book of Enoch,
Speaker 3: there we go, right. So the Book of Knock has
Speaker 3: quite a bit of reference to it as well. Also,
Speaker 3: Arba was the father at Kyria, and he was the
Speaker 3: greatest amongst the Anakites, and it was said that he
Speaker 3: was as tall as eighteen feet according to the Book
Speaker 3: of Enoch, eighteen feet tall. That's that's it's amazing. I mean,
Speaker 3: Goliath was like nine feet tall, so to have this
Speaker 3: arba of the Anakites being eighteen feet tall, that's just scary.
Speaker 3: Take how big man's hands would have been. But anyway,
Speaker 3: so that's the biblical account. And Ron was really trying
Speaker 3: to convince me that's what it was. And I just
Speaker 3: I left there just shaking my head, saying he's deceived.
Speaker 3: It's definitely a gigantapithe because it's you know, it's a
Speaker 3: big ape and out there in the woods. And I
Speaker 3: have since changed my mind. I came to the realization
Speaker 3: when because one of the things that he had talked
Speaker 3: about was that the day's going to come with this DNA.
Speaker 3: He said, that's where it's going to be. It's going
Speaker 3: to be in this DNA. And when they discover this,
Speaker 3: they're going to find out that they've got a hybrid
Speaker 3: that's part human in part fallen angel. And they don't
Speaker 3: say that. They say that the nuclear DNA is actually no,
Speaker 3: they don't know what it is. It's higher than anything
Speaker 3: they've ever seen. There's nothing on Earth that compares to it.
Speaker 3: It is totally unique. But the mitochondrial DNA that comes
Speaker 3: from the female is one hundred percent human. So now
Speaker 3: what Ron had told me was not only true, but
Speaker 3: it's being repeated scientifically, which is important for the scientific method.
Speaker 3: You have to have a hypothesis. Then your hypothesis has
Speaker 3: to be able to be tested again and again, and
Speaker 3: you should be able to repeat the test. It shouldn't
Speaker 3: be a one time thing. And that's what they're finding
Speaker 3: is the more DNA samples that have been tested, you know,
Speaker 3: by the Olympic Project and those guys over there, Derek
Speaker 3: Randalls and his group than Melba Ketchum, and there's there's
Speaker 3: other geneticists that have been involved in that had an
Speaker 3: interesting discussion. I probably shouldn't with the geneticis I'll just
Speaker 3: say that. And his his comments were about Melba, that
Speaker 3: she created a lot of enemies and that she never
Speaker 3: had before before, that she was a renowned geneticist, but
Speaker 3: then when she started to get involved in the the
Speaker 3: bigfoot stuff, it turned on her. But the problem was
Speaker 3: she didn't even know she was getting involved with the
Speaker 3: bigfoot stuff. They kind of tricked her into that, but
Speaker 3: hers came back being it was one hundred percent mitochondrial
Speaker 3: human and that the nuclear DNA was from something they've
Speaker 3: never seen before. It's off the charts. And the sequencing
Speaker 3: that they did in the DNA sequencing was astounded. When
Speaker 3: when I talked about getting in with the BFROL, that
Speaker 3: was that was good because they got me organized. That
Speaker 3: was where I really started taking what Steve and Vito
Speaker 3: and I had put together and doing our reports, and
Speaker 3: they did it cleaner and better. The only problem I
Speaker 3: had with it is my reports. The majority of went
Speaker 3: into the flats for Lewis County, in King County, in
Speaker 3: Pierce County, and these counties that I that I grew
Speaker 3: up in in South Hill, pew Wall Up. I mean
Speaker 3: I continued to have my fingers dabbled out down there too,
Speaker 3: or up there, I should say. But I lived in
Speaker 3: Massi Rock for fourteen years and I taught schooled in Morton,
Speaker 3: and we had lots of Sasquatch activy happening around there
Speaker 3: all the time. So when the Browns came out with
Speaker 3: John and Sarah Brown came out with their Highway twelveth thing,
Speaker 3: I was so excited because I knew exactly some of
Speaker 3: the places where they were talking about. One of the
Speaker 3: couples that lived in a trailer I know right where
Speaker 3: that junction is. I packed parked my car there and
Speaker 3: then walked up the road where there's a gate and
Speaker 3: I shot a really nice three by three mule there,
Speaker 3: or not mule there. It was a blacktail right up
Speaker 3: that road. But I've hunted in that area. I know it.
Speaker 3: I know where the the duck ponds are there. And
Speaker 3: Morton there's a little pond right up by the turn
Speaker 3: off where you go up to the backside of Peterman Hill,
Speaker 3: and that's there's that pond down in there has had
Speaker 3: all kinds of sasquatch activity because they'll they plant trout
Speaker 3: in there, so people will get in, go down fish
Speaker 3: around this pond, excuse me, and it's probably about I
Speaker 3: wanted to say, it might be two or three acres
Speaker 3: of water as far as surface water would go. And
Speaker 3: so it's always it's always good or actually plant it.
Speaker 3: But people been run out of there by sasquatch. And
Speaker 3: you know, it's like getting in to the evening or
Speaker 3: its first thing in the morning and they end up
Speaker 3: not fishing there because something didn't want them to, throwing
Speaker 3: rocks at him and sticks at him and screaming at him.
Speaker 3: And you know, the roaring scream, that roaring scream that
Speaker 3: they give off.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's crazy.
Speaker 3: Oh it just it's wards.
Speaker 2: You it does. Yeah, I've heard it. Yeah, yep. I
Speaker 2: was passed out.
Speaker 3: It's like a dinosaur. I've heard people describe it that one. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's pretty good. Scratch a dinosaur and uh wow. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So anyways, they would run them out of that little
Speaker 3: pond right there on Peterman Hill and people that are
Speaker 3: from the Morton Mossy Rock area.
Speaker 1: There's there's something I want to backtrack a little bit
Speaker 1: to just to clarify. So when we were talking about
Speaker 1: the DNA studies and so the results of the Ketchum study,
Speaker 1: are you also saying that other people got that same
Speaker 1: result as well from their studies or that was just
Speaker 1: from No.
Speaker 3: That's developing now, that's going on now, And that's that's
Speaker 3: what I found out.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3: Really that's that's Yeah, there's there's more going on. I mean,
Speaker 3: there's people who are afraid to go where others have
Speaker 3: gone before them to be ostracized, can run out of
Speaker 3: the community of the geneticist.
Speaker 1: There's no way this is public Like, this is not
Speaker 1: this can't be publican but this would be way bigger, right.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's huge. It basically seals the deal. The Sasquatch
Speaker 3: is real. It's over if they would just accept the results.
Speaker 3: And that's one of the things is if people who
Speaker 3: are like double checking what Melbourn did and they're running
Speaker 3: their own testing and running their own sequencing, they're finding
Speaker 3: the same thing. And then there's been other labs that
Speaker 3: have found the same thing, and they're going, well, our
Speaker 3: sample was spoiled. It had human DNA in it. Well, yeah,
Speaker 3: they don't. They haven't studied Melbourne work. Because the mitochondrial
Speaker 3: DNA is one hundred percent human. The nuclear DNA is
Speaker 3: something we don't know what it is, but spoiled because
Speaker 3: human interaction has caused that ample to be spoiled. It's
Speaker 3: human tissue that they're they're registry. Well that's what they should.
Speaker 3: So is this.
Speaker 1: Is this just stuff you've heard or you've actually read
Speaker 1: this somewhere? Who the who the other people are are
Speaker 1: getting these same results.
Speaker 3: I've gotten it from multiple sources. I think that the
Speaker 3: biggest one is the guy who's passed away a cancer.
Speaker 3: Steve talks about him all the time. To Carpenter, Scott
Speaker 3: carpenter who just passed away, and he's he you can
Speaker 3: actually get his stuff still. His son is still running
Speaker 3: his Website's his stuff. Yeah, he looks like him. My goodness,
Speaker 3: sounds like tell that's the son. But anyways, Uh, he
Speaker 3: really broke it down the best I've ever heard it
Speaker 3: to understand it. I've also heard Todd Standing talk about it.
Speaker 3: I've heard other people including I talked to Jeff Mildram
Speaker 3: about it in pretty good detail. We had our booths
Speaker 3: right next to each other two years ago up at
Speaker 3: Glyde and saw her was asking him a lot of
Speaker 3: questions about that, because he does genetic sequencing as well,
Speaker 3: he's very aware of how that all works. And he
Speaker 3: said that a lot of it was because she was
Speaker 3: self publishing. People are using herself publishing as a reason
Speaker 3: to see They never complained about herself publishing before. It
Speaker 3: was only after the sasquatch samples came out. Now all
Speaker 3: of a sudden that that's illegal. You can't do that.
Speaker 3: You got to have other people publish for you, and
Speaker 3: you can't do it yourself. But she's been doing it
Speaker 3: for years and it was always accepted, and so you know,
Speaker 3: she she is was a well well known geneticist, and
Speaker 3: she basically has been thrown under the table, thrown under
Speaker 3: the bus, whatever you want to call it, because of
Speaker 3: her stance on this. And so yeah, it's too bad.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, it's gonna come out and
Speaker 3: there'll be more people, there'll be more studies. But part
Speaker 3: of the problem and I really feel this is true.
Speaker 3: This might answer another question you probably have. I really
Speaker 3: feel it's economic more than anything. The reason the sasquatch
Speaker 3: has not been declared a species and the government's hiding
Speaker 3: it because it would destroy vast portions of economies around
Speaker 3: the United States and in Canada, the logging industry, the
Speaker 3: mining industry. There would be that they would shut down
Speaker 3: the forest because of it. And the last thing they
Speaker 3: need is more hindrance of the government trying to protect
Speaker 3: you know, a spotted hour or a little darter fish.
Speaker 3: And now you put the sasquatch in there, something that
Speaker 3: may be part humid the hybred, and I just see
Speaker 3: the government wanting to cover it all up. Talk about
Speaker 3: it now, there's nothing to see here, just keep walking.
Speaker 3: But yet there's tons to see and the evidence is
Speaker 3: so overwhelming. But at the same time, you know, it
Speaker 3: would just it would just tear our economy apart and
Speaker 3: the whole town's and would have to close up because
Speaker 3: you know, you rely on the log industry or the
Speaker 3: mining industry or whatever it happens to be. And the
Speaker 3: Pacific Northwest is riddled with resources, amazing resources that we
Speaker 3: have accessible. But once the Bigfoot is cataloged as a
Speaker 3: as a creature that's real, the protection for them will
Speaker 3: be the next step, and then that's where the economy
Speaker 3: gets destroyed. You can't let that out.
Speaker 1: When you were in the BFRO, Is there an event
Speaker 1: that you were involved with that really sticks out that
Speaker 1: you're like, I can't believe that I was involved with
Speaker 1: that event in history.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that. My family and I doing our
Speaker 3: annual late July going into August Huckleberry and Sasquatching. One
Speaker 3: of the year after it would have been I think
Speaker 3: it was two thousand and twenty two, two thousand and one,
Speaker 3: we were there and they did that was when they
Speaker 3: had started the filming on Sasquatch Science Meets Legend, and
Speaker 3: I was involved with the whole crew there and behind
Speaker 3: the scene my kids. It'd be in the truck with
Speaker 3: me and they'd fall asleep because it's like two o'clock
Speaker 3: in the morning. We're call blasting and doing night walks
Speaker 3: and they're sleeping in the truck. But they lived through
Speaker 3: all of that. But yeah, that was that was It
Speaker 3: was the year after the Scoo Combe cast, which they
Speaker 3: poured that scookom cast in two thousand and so the
Speaker 3: site we were right on site and filming. I was
Speaker 3: in the background. I was part of that, and we
Speaker 3: had a balloon, a large balloon that was tethered at
Speaker 3: one of the camps and that we could raise it
Speaker 3: way up with you know, with infrared and night vision
Speaker 3: stuff on it, so they could and they would pan
Speaker 3: the area. But the Sasquat seemed to know what we
Speaker 3: were doing and they stayed out of reach. However, we
Speaker 3: had lots of whoops during that time when we were
Speaker 3: doing filming that We had tons of people coming up
Speaker 3: and giving us stories after story. Campers were coming up
Speaker 3: there and you know where we were camped and where
Speaker 3: they set up their camp. I was actually over at
Speaker 3: the Lake Placid trailhead my family and I and we
Speaker 3: would just come over and join them during the day
Speaker 3: and then the night I would go join them and
Speaker 3: the rest of the camp. Most of my family would
Speaker 3: be sleeping, except maybe one or two boys. I want
Speaker 3: to go to Dad, and of course they'd fall asleep
Speaker 3: in the back of my pickup truck, but that was fine.
Speaker 3: But anyways, during that time, that area is called the
Speaker 3: Crazy Hills. You got Scuoka Meadows right there, and then
Speaker 3: you've got the Crazy Hills just below it. It's actually
Speaker 3: above it, and that's where we were lifting that balloon up.
Speaker 3: And it was interesting the first time I drove in
Speaker 3: there with the BFRO and this was before we this
Speaker 3: would have been snow was just coming off those high
Speaker 3: hills around Crazy Hills, and we couldn't get all the
Speaker 3: way in, but we got most of the way in.
Speaker 3: At least we made it to the creek. There were
Speaker 3: scook of meadows drains out of the meadow itself, and
Speaker 3: that's as far as we could get with the snow still.
Speaker 3: But the first time I went in there, here's this camp,
Speaker 3: this beautiful expensive dome tent, and there was all this
Speaker 3: camping equipment that was just stung all over in this
Speaker 3: camp area. And someone left all their stuff never came
Speaker 3: back for it, which is a story you hear lot
Speaker 3: and it was in the Crazy Hills, and those campers
Speaker 3: were gone and left all that expensive equipment looked to
Speaker 3: me like it was new. And then over the next
Speaker 3: couple of years it all kind of stayed there and
Speaker 3: the grass grew up around it. And you know the
Speaker 3: tent that was brand new when I first saw it,
Speaker 3: it was faded and things were getting torn and the animals,
Speaker 3: I guess were chewing on it and so forth. But
Speaker 3: all this equipment was left behind. They're in the Crazy Hill.
Speaker 3: Something ran them out, and it was obvious they never
Speaker 3: came back for it. That was right where we were
Speaker 3: doing all that that stuff for Sasquatch science meets legend. Wow.
Speaker 3: And that was when I got to meet a lot
Speaker 3: of people. When I joined the b f R, I
Speaker 3: got I got to spend time with Derrek Randalls up
Speaker 3: on the mountain camping and Jeff Linley Tom Powell. These
Speaker 3: guys were kind of the Bigfoot people. Rick no man,
Speaker 3: he he was awesome and I learned a ton from him.
Speaker 3: The other one was doctor Leroy Fish out of Oregon
Speaker 3: State University, and he was really into the Sasquatch stuff too,
Speaker 3: and so enjoyed that meeting Doug hihcheck Autumn Williams. That
Speaker 3: was all part of that BFR thing that we were
Speaker 3: doing at the time. I found two beds. One I
Speaker 3: didn't find. I didn't find any of them. I had
Speaker 3: people point them out to me, saying, hey, you need
Speaker 3: to go up here, there's a there's a bed there,
Speaker 3: And so I would go check them out, and sure
Speaker 3: enough there was a bed. When one of my football
Speaker 3: players found a bed up above Mossy Rock, overlooking Mossy Rock,
Speaker 3: he went in the backside by Morton, but now you
Speaker 3: can go in the front side because they've opened They've
Speaker 3: opened the gate that used to be locked. But there
Speaker 3: was a huge bed. I was. I was astounded. And
Speaker 3: one of my football players told me about this. He
Speaker 3: didn't give me much detail. He just said, hey, we
Speaker 3: were up scouting for deer and we found a bed
Speaker 3: and this is how you get in there. And he
Speaker 3: drew a quick back before me, handed me the paper
Speaker 3: and left. I didn't know much more, so I went.
Speaker 3: I followed his directions and went right to the spot.
Speaker 3: It's this giant cliff, probably one hundred and twenty foot
Speaker 3: drop rock face and up in the woods above it,
Speaker 3: it's on a steep hillside and they're trees that are Oh,
Speaker 3: they weren't reprod. These were some good sized trees. They
Speaker 3: were probably, you know, twenty four inches eighteen inches through,
Speaker 3: and they had woven a bed on this steep hillside,
Speaker 3: making that spot level. And it was probably twelve by
Speaker 3: eight feet that they had made this thing. People asked me,
Speaker 3: was their hair in it? I looked at it really close,
Speaker 3: and I couldn't find any hair. To me, it looked
Speaker 3: like they had made it and hadn't slept in it yet.
Speaker 3: In other words, they got caught making the bed. And
Speaker 3: when I saw this thing, I'm going, WHOA. I didn't
Speaker 3: have a camera, we didn't have phones that worked like
Speaker 3: that then, and I went back and got my camera.
Speaker 3: We went back up the next day and it was gone.
Speaker 3: The remains of it. You could seem way a blow
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty feet down there was a pile
Speaker 3: of sticks and brush and furboughs. Yeah, they had pushed
Speaker 3: it off. They had to first of all unweave it
Speaker 3: from the trees that were there, and then push it
Speaker 3: all off. They probably did it really fast because there's
Speaker 3: some big you know, they it's not that big of
Speaker 3: a deal for them, But for me, it would have
Speaker 3: taken me probably an hour or two to get that
Speaker 3: thing chewed up. And I would have wanted a buck
Speaker 3: saw in a couple of things, because they were really
Speaker 3: locked together, it was woven. And yeah, that was I
Speaker 3: was in the BFR at that time too, and so yeah,
Speaker 3: that bed. And then the other one that I saw
Speaker 3: was the one that was at Bear. This is back
Speaker 3: in the Blue Mountains again, right, and it was in
Speaker 3: the watershed. You're not supposed to be in the right,
Speaker 3: at the top of the hill, and so it was
Speaker 3: the high point right where the intake trail is where
Speaker 3: they rode the horses to make sure people weren't going
Speaker 3: in and out of the watershed. And just down on
Speaker 3: the tree line below the ridge top was this well
Speaker 3: constructed bed. It had been there were pieces of it
Speaker 3: still that were constructed. The rest of it had been
Speaker 3: taken apart. And they did find hair in that, and
Speaker 3: Grover Krantz and his team with Greg May and the
Speaker 3: rest of them took most of the stuff back to
Speaker 3: the university, back to Washington State University for further study.
Speaker 3: But I never did hear what the results of that were.
Speaker 3: It just that the bed was, that it was a bed,
Speaker 3: and that it was legitimate. But I can see how
Speaker 3: they constructed it. When I saw the other one in Washington,
Speaker 3: up above Morton and Mossy Rock, it was the same
Speaker 3: kind of structure. It was they had done the same thing.
Speaker 3: They were weaving this thing together, and it was it
Speaker 3: was interesting because it would take hands to do that.
Speaker 3: You would have to have the extery of a hand
Speaker 3: to be able to form that kind of a structure.
Speaker 3: It's interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I nest It's just wild.
Speaker 1: It's it's wild how in this subject history kind of
Speaker 1: repeats and people forget stuff that has happened before, and
Speaker 1: then oh, look what these guys felt. Well it's kind
Speaker 1: of been found before in that sort of hold. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very very interesting. It's worth it.
Speaker 3: To Yeah, yeah, but it's there. It's been going on
Speaker 3: for years.
Speaker 1: So I want to get back to the nephylum thing
Speaker 1: for a minute. So I'm going to go down the
Speaker 1: road with you for a bit. Okay, So how does it?
Speaker 1: So let's say, if these are nephilim, and so we're
Speaker 1: saying nephilim are not good, they are very dangerous.
Speaker 3: Correct, Now you're getting into something.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, well I haven't even to stopped the question yet,
Speaker 1: so I know, but I know.
Speaker 3: We're so then go ahead.
Speaker 1: So it's like, so, why then are we going, uh,
Speaker 1: why are we trying to figure out? It seems like
Speaker 1: a very dangerous proposition both to us, to humans physically
Speaker 1: and spiritually.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it can be. Okay, I when I when
Speaker 3: I look at yeah this, you're dealing in the spirit realm,
Speaker 3: but you're also being dealing in the human realm. And
Speaker 3: that's the part humans have a hard time with because
Speaker 3: we try to separate the spirit from the flesh, but
Speaker 3: they're both, and the Native American believe it that way.
Speaker 3: And if you're a Jew, the cultural Jews, the the
Speaker 3: Jews see it as the spirit and the body are not.
Speaker 3: You can't separate them out. We in the Western world
Speaker 3: try to separate that out, but the Sasquatch would never
Speaker 3: do that. And just like us. Now, I'm gonna say
Speaker 3: this because I think it's important to kind of give
Speaker 3: lays that foundation. Ron Moorehead told me back then, and
Speaker 3: I just read it again in his book on the
Speaker 3: Quantum Bigfoot, and he makes the come in and there
Speaker 3: and there It was because I've said this before too,
Speaker 3: and it's that when we fell in the garden, when
Speaker 3: we sinned and we did what God told us not to,
Speaker 3: we believe the devil. You know that did God really say?
Speaker 3: He questioned what God said, and then we disobeyed. There
Speaker 3: had to be a conce sequence for us to be
Speaker 3: a sension being. We had to be able to choose.
Speaker 3: If we didn't have a true choice, then there couldn't
Speaker 3: be a real relationship between God and us. But He
Speaker 3: is the God of relationship. Now how does that tie
Speaker 3: over to the Sasquatch, to the Bigfoot? I think it
Speaker 3: ties over perfectly. I think that the human side of
Speaker 3: them are just like us. We are longing for a
Speaker 3: relationship with a creator, with a God who has a beginning,
Speaker 3: who has an end, who gives us an identity. But
Speaker 3: when you have the nephilim, you have pure rebellion and witchcraft,
Speaker 3: and you have because which witchcraft is is the controlling,
Speaker 3: trying to control your environment. And that's that's where you're
Speaker 3: not trusting God. You're trusting in a spirit realm that
Speaker 3: is real. I mean, I do deliverance ministry. I've seen
Speaker 3: people say free left and right. We've had all kinds
Speaker 3: of supernatural things. I believe it signs wonders, miracles, and healings,
Speaker 3: and I believe that we had the same things that
Speaker 3: the Sasquatch have today and we've lost it because of
Speaker 3: the fall and because of sin. The God intended us
Speaker 3: to be as the Sasquatch still are in a lot
Speaker 3: of ways, but to worship him and not to turn
Speaker 3: from him. So saying that someday we're going to have
Speaker 3: a glorified body and all of those things that we
Speaker 3: lost are going to be restored to us. And I
Speaker 3: could probably just read through the quote that might be
Speaker 3: the best way to do it. It says the attributes. This
Speaker 3: is Ron Morhead. The attributes could entail the ability to
Speaker 3: work within the quantum level of consciousness. Now, for a
Speaker 3: lot of our listeners, they're going to have to look
Speaker 3: at quantum level of consciousness just as humans, in my opinion,
Speaker 3: were originally designed to do the Sasquatch. In other words,
Speaker 3: Ron is saying have an ability in a quantum level
Speaker 3: of consciousness. That Ron then goes on to say, just
Speaker 3: as we humans had at one time before we fell
Speaker 3: into sin.
Speaker 2: Oh oh, okay, that's huge.
Speaker 3: That's huge because that's why someday we stepped back into
Speaker 3: it with the glorified body. And now people say, well,
Speaker 3: how can you say that so authoritative? In two thousand
Speaker 3: and one, I died three times. That's why I left
Speaker 3: teaching and coaching, because God called me into the ministry
Speaker 3: at that time. And I've been in the ministry for
Speaker 3: twenty two years now, but he he said, you're going
Speaker 3: to leave teaching and coaching and you're going to follow
Speaker 3: me in the ministry, and you're going to do it
Speaker 3: and you're going to teach people to know me as
Speaker 3: you know me, Kevin. And so that was my call
Speaker 3: into the ministry. When I look at the Sabsquatch and
Speaker 3: I'm seeing this mix of human and fallen angel and
Speaker 3: I'm seeing they have what we once had. But yet
Speaker 3: here's the other part, because I almost need to shift
Speaker 3: because I feel like I'm going down the wrong trail.
Speaker 3: It's I believe the human side of them long for
Speaker 3: the things of God, just like we do. But I
Speaker 3: believe that the occultic side is also drawing them stronger
Speaker 3: than we do. And we are really drawn to the occult,
Speaker 3: we are really drawn to the spiritual side, but only
Speaker 3: the spiritual side, not the relationship side, because the spirit
Speaker 3: side is not wrong if it's done in a relationship
Speaker 3: with him, but if it's done outside of him, now
Speaker 3: it becomes a cultic, it becomes me, myself and I
Speaker 3: and the center is no longer on God, it's on
Speaker 3: you and wrong. Was basically saying, we had all these
Speaker 3: before and someday we'll have them again. And I agree
Speaker 3: with him totally. And I'm pretty sure he brought that
Speaker 3: bomb on me back in two thy or nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 3: whenever Gray Crow's conference was there in Hillsboro, Oregon. I'm
Speaker 3: pretty sure he dropped it on me then, and I
Speaker 3: remember chewing on it because it keeps popping in my
Speaker 3: mind and I'm thinking that had to been where Anyways,
Speaker 3: I was talking to Ron. I never got the chance
Speaker 3: to ask him, do you think we talked about that?
Speaker 3: Because that's so many years ago. I mean, I was
Speaker 3: eighteen years ago that Ron and I talked about that,
Speaker 3: and I poo pooed most of it. And now I'm
Speaker 3: right back to that spot. And there's a lot of
Speaker 3: reasons for that. My death being in heaven, I was
Speaker 3: there three times. I died three times. They had to
Speaker 3: resuscitate me, put the paddles on me, and the restart
Speaker 3: my heart. And so I had some interesting encounters in heaven.
Speaker 3: But I do understand that we the glorified, mine the
Speaker 3: glorified spirit. Everything glorified and on the heaven side is
Speaker 3: so much more than here. The colors, the smells, the experiences,
Speaker 3: the sensations in heaven is part of the glorified. That's
Speaker 3: what Adam and Eve lived in. And I believe to
Speaker 3: some extent the Sasquatch still live there because they've tried
Speaker 3: hard to stay away. I also think that there's many
Speaker 3: different offshoots of the Nephelin, and the Sasquatch is only
Speaker 3: an offshoot. They're not the methylin Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: But I do know there's there's a great story, and
Speaker 3: I think I started to talk to you about it,
Speaker 3: but I'm not sure. I might have been talking to
Speaker 3: somebody else. It's about Glag in North Idaho.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hen you had mentioned that, yep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And in that in that when he's talking, he's
Speaker 3: talking about how Glag would get really excited when Kevin
Speaker 3: would read to him in the Gospels and the words
Speaker 3: of Jesus. He would start bouncing up and down in
Speaker 3: the jab because Glag could speak English. Kevin had taught
Speaker 3: him how to speak rudimentary English, but he could speak
Speaker 3: and he can understand him, but Glag's language itself. Kevin
Speaker 3: explained his.
Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, hold on, Hey, are you there?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, my h.
Speaker 1: My stuff just went crazy when you start talking about
Speaker 1: the Gospels. Yeah, the bluetooth, the bluetooth just went crazy
Speaker 1: on me. So hold on, I'm gonna need to I
Speaker 1: need to call you back in like two minutes. Sorry,
Speaker 1: all right, So my stuff just went crazy when Kevin
Speaker 1: started talking about the Gospels. It just went and shut
Speaker 1: the phone off or kick the phone off the connection.
Speaker 1: So we are going to try to get him back here. Okay,
Speaker 1: hey Kevin, So we're back. We're recording. So we just
Speaker 1: got dis kind of a weird bluetooth disconnect when you
Speaker 1: start talking about Gleg and him learning English and hearing
Speaker 1: the Gospels and stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so Kevin would make mention, let's let's see
Speaker 3: what happens. Let's experiment with this, because I've heard this
Speaker 3: happen before. Yeah, it's it's crazy. All of a sudden,
Speaker 3: you'll have him cut out. Yeah, well, it's happened again.
Speaker 3: Are you listening, Yeah right, yeah, exactly. Now we're back
Speaker 3: to the men in black suits. Uh huh. Anyways, he
Speaker 3: would get really excited. Glag would get excited as Kevin
Speaker 3: would read the Gospel, so he would take his Bible
Speaker 3: up and he would read out of the Gospels to him,
Speaker 3: and that's where he always wanted him to read, was
Speaker 3: about Jesus. And he would start talking so fast. Kevin
Speaker 3: would say, slow down, slow down, pronounce your words, because
Speaker 3: he would just slur them all together, you know, a
Speaker 3: whole sentence would just be like one. Anyways, he would
Speaker 3: just get really excited and he would talk too fast.
Speaker 3: And when you were talking about anything Jesus, he would
Speaker 3: just get excited, and it wasn't like an agitation. It
Speaker 3: was more like, this is cool, this is what I
Speaker 3: want to talk about. And that was Glag and he
Speaker 3: was just a young child Sasquatch. His parents had been
Speaker 3: apparently shot, is what Kevin concluded, because over on the
Speaker 3: Montana side of the border, because he was on the
Speaker 3: Idaho side where he grew up, but the Sasquatch were
Speaker 3: known to be quite rough over there, and apparently there
Speaker 3: was talk that two sasquatch were killed and buried up
Speaker 3: in the woods, and then like the week after, he
Speaker 3: finds this starving baby sasquatch. That is just a little guy,
Speaker 3: you know. He's like three feet tall or something like that.
Speaker 3: I can't remember the details of how big he was,
Speaker 3: but he certainly was. He was smaller than Kevin was.
Speaker 3: Kevin was in junior high at the time, and he
Speaker 3: was this was his scouting area for hunting. That's where
Speaker 3: they shot deer every year and they had never seen
Speaker 3: anything bigfoot wise until this little blag guy shows up.
Speaker 3: And it would be a few I think it was
Speaker 3: months later when Kevin had met this little sasquatch that
Speaker 3: he finally got his name was Glag And that's the
Speaker 3: whole story. I said, Dutch, Is that then? I think
Speaker 3: you said it? Dutch? Does this podcast also? Does that
Speaker 3: sound right?
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: I know it's old Bigfoot Central and I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to edit this sound.
Speaker 2: Like I know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Duke hold On, Yeah, that's Duke from World Bigfoot Central.
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, he was the one that was doing the
Speaker 3: interview with Kevin. Okay, and I don't know Kevin ever
Speaker 3: put it in a book for him. I wish he
Speaker 3: would because there was just so much information. I've listened
Speaker 3: to that twice, kind of like I've listened to the
Speaker 3: whole Fox story the fifty years with Bigfoot in Tennessee.
Speaker 3: Sure that was fascinating read too, and yeah, but anyways,
Speaker 3: you can learn a lot about these that have been
Speaker 3: habituated over time and they've spent time with them. And
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the stuff that Kevin talked
Speaker 3: about with Clagg and what he experienced really lined up
Speaker 3: a lot with what the linguist was talking about with
Speaker 3: Ron Moorehead, the guy who you know, was the specialist
Speaker 3: that really took it to the next level and he's
Speaker 3: still aloed today. He stepped all in. Scott Nelson, Thank you, Scott.
Speaker 3: I'd love to meet that man sometime. He just the
Speaker 3: way he approaches it and he can simplify the language.
Speaker 3: He's it's easier to understand him than other linguists who
Speaker 3: he mastered. The linguist a side of it well, and
Speaker 3: he presents goods. You can understand what he's talking about,
Speaker 3: and I really appreciate him. But the thing that he
Speaker 3: brings up is how fast they're talking. That there's a
Speaker 3: speed and a cadence that's way above human level. We
Speaker 3: can't even talk at that speed. The cadence that they
Speaker 3: use is remarkable, and it's outside the possibility of us
Speaker 3: being able to repeat. And that's what Scott Nelson says,
Speaker 3: and I agree with him. I think that was exactly
Speaker 3: what he was talking about with glag when he would
Speaker 3: get excited and Kevin would try to slow him down
Speaker 3: because he couldn't understand the English because he was talking
Speaker 3: too fast, and Glad could actually put words together way
Speaker 3: faster than Kevin could, so he couldn't even understand what
Speaker 3: he was saying that when he was talking too fast.
Speaker 3: But Kevin had identified long before I'd heard about Scott Nelson,
Speaker 3: and the Sierra Sounds had identified that these things they
Speaker 3: speak when they're doing their Samurai chatter in a language,
Speaker 3: a known language to them that apparently is very similar
Speaker 3: to the Native American languages in America. And you know,
Speaker 3: the Chinook jargon was a language that was spoken here
Speaker 3: in the Pacific Northwest by the Indians that most of
Speaker 3: the tribes could understand Chinook jargon at least part of it,
Speaker 3: and that would give basic rudimentary communication skills to different
Speaker 3: tribes that weren't part of the same tribe, and here
Speaker 3: the Sasquatch seemed to be able to do the same thing.
Speaker 3: And that comes down that fifty years with Bigfoot. I
Speaker 3: think it's Channis Carter Koy.
Speaker 1: Does that sound right?
Speaker 3: But you know she she's done all kinds of research
Speaker 3: and study herself and on linguist stuff, and uh, I
Speaker 3: believe she's a doctor in linguistic linguistic stuff. If not,
Speaker 3: she's a doctor of something biology. I don't know. I'm
Speaker 3: not really sure now I've it's been a while since
Speaker 3: I've re listened all the way up to like episode seven,
Speaker 3: and I need to keep going because that's when they
Speaker 3: get into the Nephilim thing and what her grandfather thought
Speaker 3: it was. He thought that they were the Etomites, and
Speaker 3: which is kind of interesting because they're on my list
Speaker 3: here too. The Etomites as giants, but the Moabites called
Speaker 3: them etomites. They were they were rapidites, and Anakites they
Speaker 3: were called etomites, and he called them etamites with a D.
Speaker 3: But that's yeah anyway, so that whole lineage of the
Speaker 3: giants has been passed on them. We know about the
Speaker 3: Afghanistan giants where you know, that's that's questionable too. But
Speaker 3: we have the giants that have been found and the
Speaker 3: footprints and the Lubbock they say human tracks in the Lubbock,
Speaker 3: Texas area that are you know, petrified into the rock
Speaker 3: that at one time was just mud along the river,
Speaker 3: the Plexi river bed. And but those those footprints are
Speaker 3: anywhere from eighteen to twenty two inches long.
Speaker 2: Wow, Oh that's wild. Yeah, I got that up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Plexi River and it's it's yeah, the Plexi River.
Speaker 3: The footprints, the human footprints they call them, and you
Speaker 3: look at them and you're going, well, they got narrow
Speaker 3: heels like a female sasquatch or a little bit. They
Speaker 3: actually have an art to them, but they're giants. They're huge.
Speaker 3: Yeah they don't. They don't kept say that, but that's you.
Speaker 3: It is in the writing. You'll see it. It's eighteen
Speaker 3: and then twenty two inches, like there were two different
Speaker 3: individuals where they come from?
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So does this kind of explain then? So
Speaker 1: there's a pattern from people I've talked to over the
Speaker 1: years where they have an interaction or they're in an
Speaker 1: area where it's very known for bigfoot and et cetera.
Speaker 1: And then they start having things happen, like they start
Speaker 1: to hear things or et cetera, et cetera, or could
Speaker 1: that could be something completely different. They start to hear
Speaker 1: like the experienced mind speak or you know, telepathic type things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost like the door has been opened, right,
Speaker 3: and now they're now the receivements that they it maybe
Speaker 3: was there, but they never noticed it before, but now
Speaker 3: they do. Yeah. I think it's both. I think that
Speaker 3: they're realizing for the first time and the I think
Speaker 3: that there has to be some doway that you got
Speaker 3: to walk through to be able to embrace that. And
Speaker 3: oftentimes the sighting is enough to shake you to the
Speaker 3: point where now you're being sensitive to before you know
Speaker 3: you walk by. And I've talked to fish and gain people.
Speaker 3: I've talked to police officers and they say, I've been
Speaker 3: out in the woods my whole life and i have
Speaker 3: never seen anything that would indicate a sasquatch. Well, there's
Speaker 3: a psychological response for that, and typically what we do
Speaker 3: is we don't want to think about it. It's in
Speaker 3: a terror zone that we don't want to visit because
Speaker 3: we're not in control anymore, and so we lock down
Speaker 3: and shut it down. We don't walk through those doors,
Speaker 3: and so we're not going to accept it. So if
Speaker 3: you find a footprint, you may have found a footprint
Speaker 3: years ago and purposely forgot about it. You may have
Speaker 3: heard sounds in the middle of the night that you
Speaker 3: couldn't explain and then all of a sudden it comes
Speaker 3: up and maybe they're a recording is coming over the
Speaker 3: TV and you're hearing that, going, I've heard that before.
Speaker 3: All of a sudden, there's an identification. There was a
Speaker 3: door opened at one point in your past when you
Speaker 3: saw the evidence in the woods of these things and
Speaker 3: you blocked it out. Number One, it wasn't convenient. Number two,
Speaker 3: you're no longer in control. Those are scary topics, and
Speaker 3: I really think there's a psychological into that, and that
Speaker 3: humans have a very strong desire to be in control,
Speaker 3: and when we're not in control, it terrifies us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree, it would be.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a whole funny deal because it's like,
Speaker 1: so let's say, if this is an philim, then if
Speaker 1: there is discovery of sasquations proved to be real across
Speaker 1: the board, then in essence that proves the Bible as well.
Speaker 3: I don't want to do that either. Yeah, yeah, that
Speaker 3: would be another.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is so wild. Okay, what what a what
Speaker 1: a conversation. This has given me a lot to think about.
Speaker 2: Kevin.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for chatting today. I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, we we had such a good
Speaker 1: conversation at the festival just a few months ago as well,
Speaker 1: and I just appreciate you coming on the show and
Speaker 1: for sharing what you've been through your thoughts on things.
Speaker 1: It's been a very enjoyable conversation. Good, good, good, all right, Kevin, Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: have a good one. But I just wanted to take
Speaker 1: him in to say thank you for listening to this
Speaker 1: episode of the Big for Society podcast. Kevin's encounters are
Speaker 1: the kind that stick with you, not just because of
Speaker 1: the screams or the footprints, because of how deeply they
Speaker 1: weave into a lifetime of searching. It's a huge thanks
Speaker 1: to Kevin for sharing his story from the force of
Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest and for finding us that sometimes the
Speaker 1: mystery follows you from childhood into the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: And if you enjoy this conversation, please subscribe to the
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Speaker 1: folks find the show.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: If you or someone you know has had a big
Speaker 1: Foot encounter, especially around Packwood mortin the Blue Mountains or
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world, I'd love to hear from you,
Speaker 1: So please send me an email bigfo Society at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. Your account is the account that might connect
Speaker 1: everything and that will break this damn called disclosure and
Speaker 1: put it all wide open. So please send me your
Speaker 1: account and let's start the conversation. And if you don't
Speaker 1: send it to me, send it to anyone else. Wes Miguel,
Speaker 1: I don't care. I would love to talk to you,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, we need to
Speaker 1: get this all out in the open. And if you
Speaker 1: haven't had a chance to look at our new membership
Speaker 1: community yet, please check it out Bigfoot Society podcast dot com.
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Speaker 1: us at the Bigfoot Society, and until next time, keep
Speaker 1: your ears open, trust your gut, and never stop asking
Speaker 1: what else might be out there, And see you in
Speaker 1: the woods.