WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:05.559 You're listening to an Airwave Media podcast. Last week I 2 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:08.400 went to see a film called Alien Intrusion. Here's a 3 00:00:08.439 --> 00:00:09.839 little sample from the trailer. 4 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:14.160 Now, I'm a science fiction fan and I can tell 5 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:16.600 you the truth is out there, but it's a lot 6 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:19.160 stranger than any science fiction. 7 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:24.199 It's claimed that over twenty million Americans have seen a UFO. 8 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:28.399 The Ropapole concluded that up to four million Americans had 9 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:30.120 been abducted by aliens. 10 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:33.479 I've been involved in the development of space vehicles for 11 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:37.640 expiration for over sixty years. You know, there are massive 12 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:41.280 problems with the idea that advanced aliens can simply work 13 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:45.920 themselves around the galaxy. The starship Enterprise travels at multiple 14 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:47.280 factors of lights. 15 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:50.200 It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before. 16 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:57.640 A giant hairy creature, part ape, part Matt in Larkness, 17 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.640 a twenty four mile long bottomless lake of the Highlands 18 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.000 of Scotland, if a creature known as the Luckness Monster. 19 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:26.760 Monstert. 20 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:30.680 Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm 21 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:33.400 Blake Smith, and this week we're going to be talking 22 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:35.799 about a film that I saw last week called Alien 23 00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:40.599 Intrusion and how it relates to something called the ultraterrestrial hypothesis. 24 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:42.920 In the interview that follows, you're going to hear a 25 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:47.000 discussion with Joe Laycock, Natasha Michels, and Jeb Card, all 26 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.280 of whom have been on Monster Talk before. Joined Natasha 27 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:53.439 teach religious studies. We've had them on to discuss Tulpa's 28 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:56.079 in relationship to the slender Man, and we had on 29 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:00.920 Joe to talk about Satanism and the Satanic Panic and 30 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:03.439 dungeons and dragons, and we've had Jeb on to talk 31 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:08.599 about fairies with our archaeological fantasies crossover. Anyway, you'll recognize 32 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:10.680 their voices, I believe if you're a regular listener, and 33 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:14.759 their discussion we're about to have is about ultraterrestrials, John Keel, 34 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:19.840 the paranormal unified field theory, and this film Alien Intrusion 35 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:23.319 and how it ties in UFOs and demons. It's really 36 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:25.280 quite interesting and I hope you'll give it a listen. 37 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:26.879 And I want to give a quick thank you to 38 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.759 Peter Ahler, my friend who joined me to watch this 39 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:31.759 film in preparation for this episode. 40 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:32.960 MOREMS Tutle. 41 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:37.400 All right, so welcome to Monster Talk again. All of you. 42 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:38.280 Thank you very much. 43 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:39.520 Oh, thank you. 44 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:43.479 So we're here tonight to talk about some things. This 45 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:46.280 is going to be kind of a roundtable discussion. Jeb 46 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.319 and I, along with Sharon Hill, have been working on 47 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.719 researching something that we're calling well, actually, Jeb, why don't 48 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:55.319 you explain what the PUFT is. 49 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:58.520 The puff to the paranormal Unified field theory. Yeah, I 50 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:00.240 think we're going to come back to it again and end. 51 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:05.479 But basically wrestling with the idea that all sorts of 52 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:08.800 things that people put into what academics might call the 53 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:11.319 Celtic a milia, which include conspiracy theory as well as 54 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:15.199 words like occult, paranormal, etcetera. I'm probably not the person 55 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:18.840 to talk about this in this conversation, but that people 56 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:23.439 would talk about as being paranormal are all increasingly in 57 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:28.919 the community that's very interested in such topics interlinked. Yeah, 58 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:31.080 and it's a thing that I'm interested in. And when 59 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:34.960 we went to cryptocon we saw very firsthand, and it's 60 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:36.360 a thing I've been talking about a lot. And then 61 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:38.240 I think I finally all convinced you all that it 62 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:42.560 really was a thing after seeing it there with dogmen 63 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:43.840 and whatnot. Yeah. 64 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:48.520 So, yeah, the Michigan dog Man and other aspects of 65 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:52.280 the paranormal. They don't fit into the flesh and blood, 66 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.280 meat and bones sort of aspect of things. And this 67 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:59.000 is not new because even really early on in the 68 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:03.080 UFO world there was a split. And I say UFOs 69 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:06.439 first because that sort of predates Bigfoot. It doesn't really 70 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:08.759 predate theety, but it does predate Bigfoot. There was a 71 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:15.240 split between the UFOs are real physical craft and UFOs 72 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:22.439 are some sort of ultradimensional or transdimensional phenomena. And I 73 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:26.639 guess the guy who really focused on the ultraterrestrial hypothesis, 74 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:28.879 in fact, who gave it that name, is John Keel. 75 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:32.360 He doesn't invent he doesn't invent the concept. And honestly, 76 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:36.959 I think we're probably going to backwork into the roots 77 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.879 of this in all right, So, if you listen to 78 00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:43.000 the show that I'm usually on archaeological fantasies, we generally 79 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:48.079 have two drinking game words. One is Victorian and the 80 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:55.000 other is theosophy. And I'm about to say both. So 81 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:56.959 I just did what's. 82 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:58.720 That that we have drinks and hands? 83 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:00.639 All right? So why don't we have why don't we 84 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:02.120 talk about let's bring in the other people on this 85 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:04.639 because I guarantee, because I'm just going to say this 86 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:09.920 straight out one y'all's discussion of Tulpa's which are very 87 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:14.639 tied into this on Monster Talk was astonishing, and also 88 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:16.319 it appears to have made it on the X Files, 89 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:17.399 which is pretty amazing. 90 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:18.759 That is awesome. 91 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:22.920 Locks Yeah, yeah, no, very much. 92 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:25.000 Well, let me let me explain why I invited joined 93 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:29.439 Natasha on. It's because, in conjunction with this research I've 94 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:32.240 been doing to help Jeb on an article that he's 95 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:39.639 working on, I synchronistically had a friend point me to 96 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:43.879 this theater event that was happening called Alien Intrusion, and 97 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:46.639 I looked into it and within about five minutes realized 98 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:48.839 that this was not a UFO documentary, This was a 99 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:50.079 religious documentary. 100 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:51.720 Well it is a UFO doctors. 101 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:53.639 Well it is, I'd say, it's just kind of the point, 102 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:56.160 right it is. It is a Well, in fact, we'll 103 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:58.879 get to that. But because of the fact that it 104 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:02.800 looked to me like they were basically saying that UFOs 105 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:09.560 were a demonological phenomena, I thought that there was a 106 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:11.920 good chance it might tie in with this ultra terrestrial 107 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.079 hypothesis stuff, and so I went to watch the film, 108 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:17.319 and after and even before I went to watch the film, 109 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:18.920 I reached out to Joe because. 110 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:21.120 This is a film in theaters, right. 111 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:25.680 It was a special event Fathom Events hosted, So this 112 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:28.839 is like a one night simulcast across many theaters. 113 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:31.560 And so you saw in the theater, and Joe and Natasha, 114 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:32.759 I believe you saw it in the theater. 115 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:35.680 It was one night only. How could we resist? 116 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:39.040 That's right? Yeah, So I am going to be the 117 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:42.439 This is a horrifying position for everybody involved. I guess 118 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:44.839 I'm going to be the audience proxy because I have 119 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:47.160 not seen this. I've looked into it. I've seen the 120 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:49.639 guest list or the speaker's list, but I have not 121 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:53.680 seen this. So I will probably be asking questions about us. 122 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:57.160 I'm the I'm the far end of that spectrum. I've 123 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.360 lived this. So when I was growing up, my mother 124 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.199 told me not to be afraid of UFOs or aliens 125 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:07.160 because Lucifer is the lord of the heir and could 126 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:10.160 make all things appear to be something that they're not. 127 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:14.480 Basically that it's much more likely that it's demons than 128 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:18.680 physical aliens from another planet. And that was really seriously 129 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:20.759 the hypothesis of this film. 130 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:24.920 Yeah, so it did go straight up demons. Oh absolutely, 131 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:26.519 and I want to get into it quite Yeah, I'm 132 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:27.160 just no. 133 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.439 But Joe or Natasha both being religious studies people, both 134 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.720 being very familiar with the field and having a much 135 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:37.319 deeper knowledge of religious studies than I have. I mean, 136 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:40.800 I've only got sort of the evangelical Christian view and 137 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:45.199 the lightest understanding of other religions. So I thought it 138 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:47.319 would be helpful to have them to give us some context. 139 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:49.800 So I really appreciate you guys joining us and for 140 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:52.160 attending the film, because it gives you absolutely the best 141 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:53.480 position to talk about it. 142 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:54.800 Yeah. 143 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:56.759 Well, the way that they did this is you were saying, 144 00:07:56.839 --> 00:07:58.959 Fathom looks like they were set up if you know, 145 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:01.639 there's a show and you want to watch it at 146 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.399 a movie theater live, and so using that as a 147 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:08.240 distributor whatever audience there would be. It seems that it 148 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:11.399 just got split up across because multiple movie theaters in 149 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:13.920 Austin were showing it. When we went, there were less 150 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.519 than a dozen people in the audience. A good portion 151 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:20.439 of them seemed to be UFO buffs who walked out 152 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.040 in anger. Really about halfway through it, and I looked 153 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:26.360 today on the IMDb page for this film, and in 154 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:28.600 the trivia it actually says lots of people walked out 155 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:32.320 of this film because they didn't know it was religious. 156 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:36.600 And Natasha also got pretty restless and got up during 157 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:40.919 the film and actually saw an audience member berating the 158 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:42.480 poor guy taking tickets. 159 00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:45.840 Oh God, Latasha, what can you remember. 160 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:46.360 From that conversation? 161 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:51.759 So he was out talking to the young young guy 162 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:55.519 taking tickets and was just saying that, well, I guess 163 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:57.960 I should have researched this film better, but shame on 164 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.320 you guys for showing this. And this poor kid is 165 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:05.559 you know, he doesn't make these decisions. He take some tickets, 166 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:07.600 and then he kept saying, you know, I want to 167 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:09.960 go out and get a breath of fresh air, but 168 00:09:10.039 --> 00:09:11.639 I don't have my ticket to return. 169 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:14.519 You know, He's like, I think I need. 170 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:17.480 To go take a walk, and he seemed very very agitated. 171 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:19.360 And I was actually in the search of trying to 172 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:23.039 get myself a water or something, because by this point 173 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:25.519 the movie had been going on for about two hours, 174 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:27.879 and at this point I was just beating us over 175 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:33.720 the head with New Testament versus and different things from 176 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:36.360 Paul's letters, so sure. 177 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:40.679 So it would have been a great one hour sort 178 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:42.759 of presentation, I think. I mean, you could have made 179 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:45.159 the case in an hour, but they stretched it out 180 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:48.120 to two and then had like a Q and a afterwards, a. 181 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:50.080 Q and a. Yeah, like there were people from the 182 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:52.720 film sort of the company or whatever. 183 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:55.919 Right, Oh wow it was. It was definitely a bait 184 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:57.799 and switch, I think. 185 00:09:57.879 --> 00:10:01.120 Which the first IMDb review that shows up the title 186 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.320 is I feel lied to, with lied to being all caps, 187 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:07.360 which is why I put a little more volume behind that. 188 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:11.399 Yeah, I do know the bait and switch evangelical approach 189 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:13.200 has been around for a long time. I mean I 190 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:15.840 remember many times when I was a kid going to 191 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:18.399 the fair and then have like free puppet show and 192 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:20.919 you know it's a puppet show, but it is definitely 193 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:23.360 an evangelical, you know, conversion puppet show. 194 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:26.519 I've also done that to good anthropology majors. 195 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:31.000 But yeah, I remember in college there was a free 196 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:34.200 comedy night and it was an evangelical bait and switch. 197 00:10:34.759 --> 00:10:35.039 Yeah. 198 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:37.919 I don't think that's kind of like it's almost like 199 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:43.360 a pious fraud. You know, it's not like quite faking 200 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:46.759 a miracle, but it is it is a little bit deceptive, and. 201 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:50.080 Which is, by the way, literally the subtitle of the movie. 202 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:53.840 It is alien intrusion unmasking a deception. Well, surprise, I 203 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:57.360 got one of the deceptions for here, narrated by John Schneider, 204 00:10:57.559 --> 00:10:59.360 one of the two dudes from the Dukes of Hazzard. 205 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:01.360 Yeah, yeah, I mean that. 206 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:04.720 Was also interesting because John Schneider now does something called 207 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:08.600 Faith Works Productions and so important again, but he did 208 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:12.320 not introduce himself as Bo Duke from Dukes of Hazzard. 209 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:16.960 He introduced himself as Clark Kent's dad from the show Smallville. 210 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:19.600 Interesting, that's right, yeah. 211 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:22.159 After the sci fi craft. 212 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:25.200 Yeah, and also just people who are, you know, younger 213 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:27.039 than a lot. 214 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:30.600 Yeah. Let me tell you a different view of the audience. 215 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:35.039 My theater sold out to auditoriums, and it real almost 216 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:38.840 entirely church groups where everybody knew everybody. Everybody was like, hey, 217 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.240 brother so and so, and hey sister so and so. 218 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:41.360 So. 219 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.159 There was there was a real sense that I had 220 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:47.840 walked into a church service. And before the movie started 221 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:54.840 there were a lot of advertisements about creation ministries. It 222 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:58.399 was really and the narrator or not the narrative, the 223 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:01.320 director of the show is from Mostustralia, so he wasn't 224 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.960 ken Ham, but there is a strong I'm just it 225 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:05.600 just kind. 226 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:07.879 Of immediately go where my mind went. Thank you. 227 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:10.519 Yeah, no exactly. It wasn't Knham, but it was yet 228 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:15.440 another strong Australia anti evolutionary thing, and I wish Karen 229 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:17.919 was here to defisure your country. 230 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:23.200 Christian Ministries had a nasty breakup with ken Ham in 231 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:26.159 two thousand and six, and the reasons for this are 232 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:28.559 not entirely clear, but there's a lot online if you 233 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:30.919 want to dig into that breakup. 234 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:33.600 It was a secret anti chin beard sort of movement. 235 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:40.399 Wow. Wow, that's harsh but fair. By the way, he 236 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:43.960 does not have They sell a little pamphlet about UFOs 237 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:45.440 at the so pretty much if you go to the 238 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:49.080 Kraast Museum, all the stuff they sell text wise is theirs, 239 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:51.240 which surprised me when I went there. I've not been 240 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:52.960 to the ark and Kaa, but in the Karat Museum 241 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:55.600 and they do have a tiny little pamphlet on UFOs 242 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:59.080 and they don't do the demonology thing. They actually have 243 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:05.519 a largely skeptical perspective that basically says sightings are probably blah, 244 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:09.799 blah blah, mistakes and the idea of aliens reifies evolution. 245 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:14.320 Let me just say that a good seventy percent of 246 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:16.120 the first half of this movie. I know that's a 247 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:19.559 little bit of too much math, probably, but the predominant 248 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:24.440 content of the first half of the film was about 249 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.600 what the UFO phenomena is and why modern day science 250 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:33.200 rejects the idea that physical extraterrestrial craft are traveling from 251 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:35.759 other planets. It could have been put on by psychop 252 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:41.039 It was absolutely you know. Bullet pointed the same arguments 253 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:43.720 that most physicists have against the idea that just a 254 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:48.559 visiting Earth but they move does open the way for demons, 255 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:51.080 which makes that they move on to the argument, well, 256 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:54.279 people are seeing something, so what are they seeing. If 257 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:58.399 it's not physical craft, it must be demons. So I 258 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.840 mean that there's a lot of things that I would 259 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:04.399 have liked them to include it, But the idea that 260 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:09.559 maybe it's misidentified or misunderstood or sleep paralysis, none of 261 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:10.559 those ideas came up. 262 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.240 So how much of it was abduction? Like looking at 263 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:16.799 the IMDb thing, abduction seems to come up a lot. 264 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:19.320 Was a lot of it, which if they're talking about 265 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:23.080 sort of demonological, you know, nocturnal attacks. Abduction seems like 266 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:24.440 it would be a big part of Is that a 267 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:26.080 big focus in the film? 268 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:28.600 The second half is all about abduction. 269 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:34.799 Yeah, because the narrator says, abductees are the most testable 270 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:37.159 evidence that we have of this phenomenon. 271 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.559 Wow, which I guess how well. 272 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:43.039 In the sense that you can bring an abductee. 273 00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:44.559 To a lab and like yeah on them. 274 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:48.639 But a lot of ufologists, including you know, Jacques Ballet, 275 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:51.360 have said the contact these are the worst evidence, right, 276 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:54.399 The best evidence are is ideally a video or something 277 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:57.879 like that, and not something who is remembering something under hypnosis. 278 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:00.559 But on the other hand, of course Ballet is also 279 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:03.879 mister aliens or fairies, which if you want to be 280 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:08.519 away with the fairies and missing time under the hills and. 281 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.159 They brought up fairies, you'd have been so proud of them. 282 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.960 I've made all the made all the mistakes in my life, 283 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:18.000 especially when. 284 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:22.799 They use the abduct keees, because it's like they were 285 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.159 they were trying to show in the first half of 286 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:29.039 the first two thirds, like this is all illogical. You know, 287 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:32.360 fast than light travel is illogical, and you know, all 288 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:32.919 this other. 289 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.879 Stuff and then when we got to the abductees. 290 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:38.360 There was just so much crying and with like really 291 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:42.279 sad piano keys in the background, and it was just 292 00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:45.440 it was just this like kind of blatant appeal to emotion. 293 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:48.720 It was telling stories over sad piano interest. 294 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:50.279 Yeah, yeah, that's very popular. 295 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:56.159 Sorry it's a little in joke there, but so so 296 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:59.200 it was very very like like sort of therapy culture 297 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.639 kind of word of with the which is not a 298 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:05.120 new criticism of abduction stuff. 299 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:08.200 Not so much. They treated the abductees like they'd had 300 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:14.039 legitimate experiences. They very politely discussed the common feature of 301 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:19.200 the rectal probes, and then they it basically came down 302 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:23.399 to correct me if I'm over simplifying this, Natasha Joe. 303 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:26.399 But I think it came down to invoking the name 304 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:30.960 of Jesus Christ repeatedly is the best defense against alien abduction. 305 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.759 That's right. And and two of the people in the 306 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:37.200 film are involved in this ministry called alien resistance. 307 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:41.120 I think the websites they're in there, that's amazing. I've 308 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:44.360 been in their church yep, right across right, Well they're 309 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.279 not anymore, but they used to be literally across the 310 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:48.879 street from the UFO Museum in Roswell. 311 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.360 Yeah, and there's a resistance is fertile? 312 00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:53.879 Nice? 313 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:59.559 Nice? Do they still have as their symbol the sort 314 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:03.919 of no smoking aka Ghostbusters like the red circle with 315 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:06.480 oh my god, what the alien had the gray head 316 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:11.640 in the middle. My favorite picture period of all is 317 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:14.440 I went to the two thousand and two UFO Festival 318 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:21.599 in Roswell and the Rallians, the group that is basically 319 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:26.559 a contact ee flying saucer religious new religious movement primarily 320 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:28.240 based out of Quebec, all though a ton of them 321 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:32.319 in Korea. They were going to speak, not it wasn't 322 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:34.559 gonna be rey Ale, but it was disciples of His 323 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.480 who made their hair and beard look like his who 324 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:39.559 were going to speak at the International UFO Museum and 325 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:43.680 Research Center aka the Big Museum with a almost as 326 00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:48.200 big gift shop attached to it. Then at the last 327 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.119 minute their speaking got revoked because they were too weird 328 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:55.440 for the UFO Museum, which is a merit badge. But 329 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:01.279 they were allowed in to the Alien Resistance storefront church, 330 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:03.799 which at that time existed across the street. And the 331 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.440 story behind that is I know his name is Guy, 332 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:08.880 I don't remember his last name, but he was from 333 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.480 I want to say, Tennessee in the nineteen nineties, and 334 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:14.359 if you all know the story, better please interrupt me. 335 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.599 In the nineteen nineties he started having in essence what 336 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.400 would be sort of alien abduction or what a skeptic 337 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:25.160 would say would be sleep paralysis events, but he interpreted 338 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:29.160 them from a born again perspective as demonic attacks. And 339 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:31.119 so he decided, well, where am I going to go 340 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.119 into the belly of the beast. He went to Roswell 341 00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:35.759 right at the sort of the height of all of this, 342 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:41.039 and opened up a storefront church of a ministry against 343 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:44.359 aliens because he believes their demons. But they allowed the 344 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.559 aliens who say they don't worship aliens, they say they're atheists, 345 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:54.519 but they kind of worship aliens, allowed them to come 346 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:56.640 in and speak. And there is a picture that a 347 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.640 dude who was sort of reliving the film Six Days 348 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.119 in Rosse, which is a very interesting film. God of 349 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.640 me listening to all of this, and I now have 350 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.319 it in every who Am I? Because I don't want 351 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:09.599 to do this lecture at the beginning of semesters. 352 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:12.319 The guy I'm malone, I want to say it. 353 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:15.319 Was guy alone. That seems very like Batman Gillin from 354 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.759 the thirties. I wasn't certain, but that sounds right. Yeah. Yeah. 355 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:21.839 He and Joe Jordan, who they said was the moof 356 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:27.039 on director for South Korea. Interesting players in the film. 357 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:31.599 Yeah yeah, and then Jim Subtle from Roswell as well. 358 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:35.000 Wow. Yeah. I don't know if they're still in Roswell. 359 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:37.039 I know they are no longer right in front of 360 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:39.200 the museum, but I don't know if they've left Roswell. 361 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.079 I get the feeling they're still there because I saw 362 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.279 some YouTube videos a few years ago of them having 363 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.279 sort of an alternate conference at the same time as 364 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:51.759 the Big festival, and one of the people in the 365 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:56.200 film spoke there, who I don't believe has the same 366 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.599 ideology one Nick Redford. Yeah. 367 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:03.839 No, I don't know what Nick believes exactly, but I 368 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.599 know that he makes his living off of the same 369 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:11.759 sort of topics that I'm interested in and doesn't have 370 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:16.759 the sort of skeptical framework that I do. But he 371 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:18.839 was in the movie quite a bit, and every time 372 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:22.200 Nick Redford appears, it's moments later we see John Keel 373 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:25.119 over and over and over again. So it's like Nick Redford, 374 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:29.359 Nick Nick Redford serves as John Keel's proxy for this film. 375 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:32.599 Well, do we want to briefly talk about that a little? Like? Like? 376 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:35.079 Not briefly, I think we should talk about a whole lot. 377 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:36.839 Okay, all right, I mean I just didn't know if 378 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:38.400 if there was anything else we need to get out 379 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:38.720 of the way. 380 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:41.240 Yeah, No, I think. I mean, I think the main 381 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:45.799 thing is that, you know, my position as a skeptic. 382 00:20:46.359 --> 00:20:49.119 You know, we're a podcast that works with Skeptic Magazine. 383 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:53.319 But I've always felt that I think it's absolutely fine 384 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:56.160 that people have religion. I you know, I grew up 385 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.720 in a religious family. I'm not an anti god person. 386 00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:03.000 I'm not an anti religious. I am a very pro 387 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.839 evidence person, and I don't think I think that the 388 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:13.799 usefulness of using skeptical methodology to figure out whether things 389 00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:17.119 are really demonstrably true or testably true or not is important, 390 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:21.359 and critical thinking is important, and I find it unfortunate 391 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.680 that this whole thing is also wrapped up in a 392 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:31.160 big anti evolution nutshell, because I think there's very few 393 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.119 scientific theories that have turned out to be so demonstrably 394 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:39.279 reliable as natural selection as an explanation for evolution and 395 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.240 as a quick reminder for audience members who may not 396 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:47.119 know it. The evolution itself was never really debatable. I 397 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:50.359 think prior to Darwin, Darwin was looking for a mechanism 398 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:54.480 to explain it. He wasn't inventing evolution. Evolution already existed. 399 00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:57.559 His grandfather had talked about evolution. But what he did 400 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.440 was came up with natural selection as a methodology to 401 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.039