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Speaker 1: Hello everyone. I'm Stephanie Wilder Taylor, and welcome to Drunkish,

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my podcast based loosely on my book Drunkish, where I

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told my sobriety story, and you can still buy it.

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I welcome you to buy it. It's a pretty good book.

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But now I have this podcast, and let's get right

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to my guest. She is a performer, a writer, a composer,

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and also a good friend of mine, Margo Rose. Listen.

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She's had quite a life. It's a fascinating story. She's

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been through a lot. Her story is incredibly moving, and

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I made it into two parts, but you definitely have

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to hear all of part one to fully get the

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impact of part two, so listen until the end. She

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also has a show that's going up in a theater

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in Hollywood next month. That's in February, and I will

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post the details in the episode to description. So let's go.

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I am so happy to be here with you, Margo friend,

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fellow sober traveler. That's right, I've known you for a

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really long time.

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Speaker 2: Yes you have.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I like to open by saying like how I

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was first introduced to you? And I was first introduced

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to you in a sober space, and I had a

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person helping me with my when I first got sober.

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And then I heard you speak at a meeting and

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I was like, oh, hold on a minute, I think

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I made a mistake with my first one.

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Speaker 2: I was like seeded to say, wait, I made a mistake,

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but this would do.

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Speaker 1: No. I was just like, I was like, I need

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somebody like Margot who has edge. You were like rock

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and roll and into the pills, which we'll get into.

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And I mean, so you were sober five years sober

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when I met you, and anyway, I just remember thinking

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you were like the coolest no. But back then I

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was very what's the word for it, defensive, like angry,

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not wanting to do things someone else's way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you were too smart for you, I mean,

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and I totally got it. You were just too smart

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for all of it, you know, and it just kind

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of rubbed you the wrong way a lot of the time.

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Speaker 1: I just I just wanted everybody to be so nice

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to me and like so grateful that I was racing

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them with my sobriety. We should all be celebrating all

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of my milestones, including by the day and just congratulating

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me on not drinking and not asking anything of me,

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not expecting me to do work.

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Speaker 2: No, no, just your presence, just your actual Connie who's

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an actor, used to say, I don't know if you

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remember Connie. Of course, yes, okay she used to say.

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She said great shit. But but one of the things

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she said was like, everybody is giving me all this,

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you know, good feedback for my role. And you know,

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she was on wad Way and everything, and she was like,

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everybody's doing, but I need a parade. I need a parade.

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If I don't have a parade, I feel really, you know,

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like I haven't gotten my do And you know she

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just shared that then, and I thought, yes, we all,

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so many of us, not everybody.

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Speaker 1: What I love about recovery, though, is the ability to

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see that in myself and then have a laugh and

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know that, you know, I'm among my people other people

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that are like I've always kind of been that way.

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And yes, I needed a lot of praise and still

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do I've gotten better, though.

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Speaker 2: No, you've gotten Yeah, you're you know, as as we

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can all see about other people. I think, you know, yeah,

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you know when I hear you speak and I think

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about when I first met you, and you know it's

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you know, it's it's been totally transformational and you and

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I mean the way I see you. But but also

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you're the same woman. You know, you have the same smarts,

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you have the same edge, you have the same humor.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: That was always the thing I loved about you is

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you just had, you know, the kind of humor that

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I love, this kind of dark, cutting humor. And you

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still have that. You still have all that shit. You know,

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it's okay if I have a potty mouth, well we're

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or I insist love it, you know, so you have

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all those important, great, you know, wonderful things. It's just,

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you know, what is it. I don't know how to describe.

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It's like as we get sober, as we get more willing,

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I think, you know, I think a lot of it

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is dealing with ego right totally.

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Speaker 1: And I am just so grateful that I've known you

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the whole entire time, sixteen years. But tell me.

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Speaker 2: About you that I have that much sobriety now.

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Speaker 1: It's okay. You have good reason, you have very good reason,

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which we'll get to. But tell me about you before

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any of this, before you got sober. Wild actress live

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in that live in that life. I know the story,

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but I want our listeners to know it well.

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Speaker 2: You know, I started. I went to drama school, a

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couple of them, and after I graduated from the second one,

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I came to New York with three other friends from

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from school from North Carolina, and uh, we got a

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house on Staten Island, which is the dumbest thing, like,

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we're all gonna make it in New York City and

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let's live on Staten Island where you know it takes

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hours hours to get there. But I did make the

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best of it because I became a fairy singer. I

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got it, Yes I did. I got a permit and

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I opened my guitar and left it open. And I

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was at one of the two ends of the Staten

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Island Ferry, which back then was really wild because you could, boy,

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you could get one token and ride all day, which

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they didn't do after a number of years. But so

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they were crazy people on there too that just wanted

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to get on and I have a place to be.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: It was a woman that would run down the aisles

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lifting her skirts going you know, it was like nuts, great, yes,

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what was.

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Speaker 1: She a good tipper?

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Speaker 2: Well, no, she was not a good tipper because she

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was homeless. But she was really entertaining, you know, and

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she really shocked people because she would just I don't

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think it was completely naked underneath, but it was, you know,

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it was you know, I have high waisted panties or something.

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You know, that's something that people really couldn't handle. So

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I love that and I did that for months. It

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was it was how I made my income when I

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first got to New York, and then I you know,

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I worked at the Federal Reserve Bank being a tour guide,

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and then I started waitressing. It you know, all these

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like wild things and and how old were.

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Speaker 1: You were you like early twenties at this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. When I got to New York, I

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was twenty two, I think, yeah, twenty two. And and

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you know, crazy stuff happened kind of right away. I

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mean crazy, hard stuff happened. I lost my dad and

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when I hadn't actually I hadn't finished college. I had

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taken a semester off and I was barmating. I was

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barmating and wearing hot pants, and I had we could

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take drinks from the from the guys along the bar,

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you know, they could buy us drinks. It was the

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Broadway Pub, so like the lifers who had these big

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bees hives, and at the end of the night they'd

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be like listening. I would have like four or five

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vod Katonics lined up along. It was like heaven on

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a stick. I'd just go down and say hi to

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these awful guys and just like hello, how are you doing,

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and you know, buy me a drink woo, And it

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was just the greatest thing. I got off at two

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am and I went home to my little apartment with

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my friend and you know, it was it was fun.

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And then I got a call on the payphone that

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my dad had a heart attack, and I ran back

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to where they were at the time, which was Arlington, Virginia.

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We'd moved from Indiana and he was in a coma

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and we lost him after three days. And that was awful.

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And then I went back to New York. Oh no,

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I didn't. I stay with my mom and then I

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finished college and then I went back to New York.

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And then within I don't know, three or four years. Yeah,

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it was both both of them were After my dad,

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I had a couple of friends commit suicide.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Best friends. Yeah, jump from jump from buildings, both of them.

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I know that's you know, the you know talking about loss.

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It just I mean I had had so much loss

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by the time I even was in my forties, and

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Pat and I decided to have kids, it was like,

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you do it? No, I mean if I don't know

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how I would have felt if I hadn't had a

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hysterectomy and couldn't you know she had to be the

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one because I didn't have a uterus. But in retrospect,

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I was grateful.

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Speaker 1: Well, hold on, not everybody knows that part of your story.

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So when did you meet then? So then you are

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still in New York, you're acting you have this loss

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I have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have lost and loss and loss. And then

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I started getting work. I started getting commercials, and I

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started doing some readings. And then I somebody actually craiged Zaydan,

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who's a big huhan now, arranged a got me an

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audition for a new show called I'm Getting My Act

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Together and Taking It on the Road. Gretchen Choir and

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Nancy Ford and I went in and I think I

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sang one of my own songs that I'd written and

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something else and Gretchen was from Indiana as I was,

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and we just got along like gangbusters, and they hired

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me to do this show that hadn't been done. And

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we were at the Public Theater, Joe Papp's Public Theater

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way back when, and we opened. We got mixed reviews,

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but we had all this word of mouth, and so

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the show became a hit. And I did it in

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New York for I think a year, almost six or eight, No,

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a year. I did it in your New York for

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a year because we were at the Public. And then

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we moved to Circle in the Square downtown, which is

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now gone. And then I visited somebody in California. It

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was like a whimsical thing. And I went out and

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I visited a friend in California, and I fell in

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love with California. I fell in love with it. I

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just thought I fell in love with all the wrong stuff,

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do you know. I thought the palm trees were wonderful,

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and everybody was like having music jams and sitting in

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little houses up on an echo parking. I just, you know,

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I completely glamorized it, do you know? It was just

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all spark three to me.

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Speaker 1: I love California. Look I just got my California tattoo.

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You did not, Yes, I sure did. I have glamorized

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it too.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 1: But I've lived here almost all my life, so you

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don't have to you don't have to apologize for glamorizing

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California or well, you know.

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Speaker 2: I so yeah, So I decided to like up and

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leave because the show was supposed to come out here

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and then it didn't because there was like a gas

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strike or something. This is a long time ago, and

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and I just was like, I'm going anyway. You know

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that this you know, I have a vagabond, and you know,

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i'd started, I'd started drinking, but I I it wasn't

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a big problem way back then. And really, when I

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was still New York, I had cocaine for the first time.

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That was fun. I liked it a lot because I'm

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I'm a you know type person in the first place,

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and that that was excellent. I really loved it. But

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I didn't get on it, and then I didn't get going,

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you know, And I and I really wasn't a big

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deal in New York.

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Speaker 1: Everyone was doing it.

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Speaker 2: Everyone was doing it, you know, and I didn't do

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it all that much. But I've been working. I've been

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doing commercials. I've been done in this hit show. So

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I got a drive away car, which I don't know

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if they still have. You somebody wants a car in

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California and it's it's actually on the East Coast. So

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you say, oh, I'll drive it.

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Speaker 1: I think, so do you get that?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. So I put my dog, Henry, who had

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found on the streets of New York, put him in

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the car with me, and loaded up my car and drove. Oh.

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I made all these stops that I wasn't supposed to make,

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you know, we're supposed to go straight there. I went

239
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to see my sister, and out of outside of Boston,

240
00:12:57,039 --> 00:12:59,799
I went to see Tommy, my friend Tommy was doing

241
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in Ohio. I went to see you know, I mean

242
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,399
I would see my brother in Colorado, right, and then

243
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,120
the fellow I was seeing at the time, because I

244
00:13:09,159 --> 00:13:12,159
was still on that side of the street. Oh, I know,

245
00:13:12,879 --> 00:13:15,159
I know. You wouldn't know this till I was thirty.

246
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,399
Actually it was boys boys, boys, yes, ma'am. Oh, yeah, I.

247
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,279
Speaker 1: Did not know this about you, okay. Fascinating.

248
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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not one of those like I knew when

249
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,240
I was no, I'm not the female Davis Sarras at all.

250
00:13:27,399 --> 00:13:32,039
Oh I did not. I I mean I it came

251
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,919
into my head, and there were times that I thought

252
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,480
about it towards the tour, you know, right before I

253
00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:40,759
came to California. But if I thought about it or

254
00:13:40,799 --> 00:13:44,799
I thought it was something that was happening, I was like, no, no, no,

255
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,399
because this was eighties. You know, this is a long

256
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,840
time ago in terms of the culture, right. So I

257
00:13:52,879 --> 00:13:56,879
came to California just because I thought the palm trees

258
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,600
were cute and looked like, you know, bathroom cups unfolded.

259
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,480
I just loved it. And I came here, and of course,

260
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,600
I you know, I got a commercial agent right away,

261
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,440
but I couldn't get a regular agent because you have

262
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,960
to have tape on yourself. It was it's just a

263
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,960
big huha. So I started waitressing. First year I was

264
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,480
out here, the show didn't come out. So I waitressed.

265
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,039
I worked at the Improv and I got you know,

266
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,279
all these places, and and I really started drinking more.

267
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,840
I had my dog Henry with me. Talk about a

268
00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:29,559
bad dog owner. I would let him out the back

269
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:36,960
door on Fountain in Hollywood, Okay, like between Librea and Highland.

270
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,799
And we lived on Point Setta, which was right by fountain,

271
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,679
and I would let him out the back door, like okay, Henry,

272
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:49,519
go pee, because I was busy doing cocaine in that year.

273
00:14:49,759 --> 00:14:52,679
That's when I started in that and I had a cocktail,

274
00:14:52,679 --> 00:14:55,200
which was a white wine and coke, and it was

275
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,480
just aces. When it got bad was when I didn't

276
00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:04,320
want to be with anybody else. I did it, and

277
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,480
I bottomed out on the drug. Before I realized that

278
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,320
it was an overall over arching problem. I thought it

279
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,600
was just the coke because I did bottom out, I boosted.

280
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,120
My roommate was dealing, can you imagine? And I had

281
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,320
already I had already started working. The show had come out.

282
00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:28,000
I had just filmed forty eight hours.

283
00:15:27,919 --> 00:15:31,679
Speaker 1: And oh yeah, yeah, I recently watched it just to

284
00:15:31,679 --> 00:15:34,000
see you in it. You play one of the girlfriends.

285
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,559
Speaker 2: The guy play one of the girlfriends. And by that

286
00:15:37,679 --> 00:15:41,039
time I was in the closet, but I was. I

287
00:15:41,039 --> 00:15:45,759
had started seeing gals and and I remember they said,

288
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,080
you know, I hope you don't mind for forty eight

289
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,799
these two girls, they're they're rough, and they they broke

290
00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:53,279
up from these other guys, but you know, they there's

291
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:57,240
a suggestion like they could be lesbians. I'm like, well,

292
00:15:58,159 --> 00:16:00,919
let me think, you know. So it was sort of

293
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,399
weird and a little scary because I was totally in

294
00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:07,360
the closet. But anyway, I was on that set and

295
00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:10,120
by the time I got on the set of forty

296
00:16:10,159 --> 00:16:14,440
eight Hours, I had just stopped like a week before.

297
00:16:14,519 --> 00:16:17,519
Now I'm putting it in time here because I realized

298
00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:19,480
that I by the time I did forty eight Hours,

299
00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:22,519
I had stopped a week before that. I had stopped

300
00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:26,039
doing cocaine because I had bottomed out by stealing my

301
00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:30,440
roommates stash and doing like many grams in one day

302
00:16:31,159 --> 00:16:34,240
and almost killed myself, and you know, saw God and

303
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,440
at the end of that said to myself, Okay, I

304
00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:42,679
get it. I can keep doing this and die or ama.

305
00:16:42,799 --> 00:16:45,039
It was that moment. It was a god shot, but

306
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,240
not a godshot about everything. It was just like, coke

307
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:54,039
is the problem. Alcohol's fine. So that was nineteen eighty

308
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,480
I think or eighty one, and I went for another

309
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,600
almost ten years before I got sober. Sober, you know,

310
00:17:01,639 --> 00:17:02,759
before I really got sober.

311
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,519
Speaker 1: So did the alcohol keep getting bad? Because it's just

312
00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:11,160
so funny, I will you and I have talked about

313
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,599
stuff a lot of times. But you know, I quit

314
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,440
cocaine too. When I was like nineteen. I started doing

315
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,000
it and then and only did it for less than

316
00:17:20,039 --> 00:17:23,200
a year, like six months, and I was like, oh this,

317
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,279
this is going to be real bad for me. I

318
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,319
was just doing taking all kinds of risks, like going

319
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,640
off with guys I didn't know to like construction sites,

320
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,279
because they said they would give me cocaine. It's amazing

321
00:17:36,319 --> 00:17:39,279
that nothing terrible happened to me. But one night I

322
00:17:39,319 --> 00:17:43,559
had a bad, bad scene with it, and I was like,

323
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,039
you know what, I can't. I can't do this.

324
00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:47,599
Speaker 2: That was your moment.

325
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,839
Speaker 1: That was my moment. And I've never done it since.

326
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:55,119
But I have definitely kept drinking, yeah, for another twenty years.

327
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:55,720
See there you go.

328
00:17:55,799 --> 00:17:57,599
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people do that, Like I

329
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,200
have a problem with this hard drug, right, I mean

330
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,160
to stop doing this hard drug and everything else is cool.

331
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,519
I'm you know, asis Yeah, And I did drink. I

332
00:18:08,559 --> 00:18:11,359
did drink more after I stopped coke, you know. And

333
00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:14,480
the main thing about how much I drank was I

334
00:18:14,559 --> 00:18:18,640
drank every day for the next you know, almost ten years.

335
00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:23,519
I drank every day, and I thought about it. I

336
00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:25,880
had it in my head, When do I get to

337
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,279
drink today? When am I you know, I was, I

338
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,000
was in relationships. I was you know, I had a

339
00:18:31,039 --> 00:18:33,400
lot of people around. It wasn't like I was all

340
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,240
on my own in a little room and I could

341
00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:37,640
just do whatever and nobody knew about it. I was

342
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,000
with people, so I had to plan We're going out

343
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,839
to dinner tonight. Okay, we'll have white wine.

344
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:42,119
Speaker 3: You know.

345
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,480
Speaker 2: I was with somebody that drank, but she wasn't alcoholic,

346
00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:48,000
but she drank a lot. You know, people drink a lot,

347
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,799
you know, it's just you know, when we were at

348
00:18:52,839 --> 00:18:57,599
her place in Canada on a summer, you know, when

349
00:18:57,599 --> 00:19:01,119
we'd gone on vacation, and we got this great bottle

350
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,960
of Scotch and it was nighttimeing and we drank a

351
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,400
little bit and then she kind of fell asleep and

352
00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:11,559
I proceeded to not even realize I was doing it,

353
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:14,000
but over the course of the rest of that night,

354
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,680
just completely drank the whole bottle. And the first time

355
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,079
I really I know, I had thought it years ago.

356
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,359
I thought I'd had somebody say, you know, maybe you

357
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,079
should look at this and I was like, yeah, I'm

358
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,519
a drunk, and you know, I put my Hennessy in

359
00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:31,480
my back pocket and my coke and my watch pocket

360
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,599
and I went and sang, and you know, I thought

361
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,799
I was the coolest thing alive, right, But I that

362
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,720
was I remember that night when I when I woke

363
00:19:40,839 --> 00:19:44,160
up and I thought, why did I do that? You

364
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,559
know what what? Because I couldn't remember wanting to that much.

365
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,960
I couldn't remember that it was a I had some

366
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,839
big need or obsession to do it. It was just

367
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,720
like I did it. I just did it.

368
00:19:58,759 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 1: You know.

369
00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 2: Years later you find all sorts of things like that

370
00:20:01,799 --> 00:20:04,720
in the big book, stories about I didn't mean to

371
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,880
do this and I just put the scotch in my milk,

372
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,119
and you know, and how does it happen? And that's

373
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,119
why we have to watch out and so that I

374
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,400
didn't get sober. But the woman I was with at

375
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:22,400
the time, I really practiced a lot of betrayal. You know.

376
00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:26,519
I was hitty and I did it a couple of

377
00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:30,240
times to different people. And I did it with that

378
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,759
woman that I was with for like five years, and

379
00:20:32,839 --> 00:20:35,759
she found out that I'd been lying and seeing somebody else,

380
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,680
which actually turned out to be pat that I then

381
00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:42,400
stayed with for twenty six years. But so she found

382
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,480
out about it, and she called me when we got

383
00:20:44,519 --> 00:20:48,599
back from where we'd been and she railed me. I mean,

384
00:20:48,599 --> 00:20:51,559
she just reamed me out. She just it was the worst.

385
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,000
I mean, she was like, blah blah blah blah blah,

386
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,680
you're gonna be a big loser. You just do this,

387
00:20:55,759 --> 00:20:58,400
and you just do that. And in that rant she

388
00:20:58,599 --> 00:21:02,839
also said you're an alcoholic. She told friends later she

389
00:21:02,839 --> 00:21:05,799
didn't really think that or think that she thought that,

390
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,319
but it came out. I heard it. I'd been going

391
00:21:10,319 --> 00:21:14,160
to alan On because my dad was an alcoholic, so

392
00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:16,880
that was that was going to solve everything, right from

393
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,000
going to allan On sporadically, but I thought I was being,

394
00:21:20,519 --> 00:21:22,559
you know, really searching.

395
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 1: Do you think that's a thing. Do you think that's

396
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,559
a thing where people I'm wondering if you think I

397
00:21:29,599 --> 00:21:32,160
know so many people who started out going to alan

398
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,640
On because we think it somebody else is causing us

399
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,519
this amount of pain. I went to allan On a

400
00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:41,039
few times over my biological father, who I did not

401
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,039
grow up with, but I just attributed a lot of

402
00:21:45,079 --> 00:21:46,160
many issues to him.

403
00:21:46,319 --> 00:21:47,599
Speaker 2: I think we move it right.

404
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, even though I was doing like worse, right, I

405
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,880
really thought if I could just get a hold of

406
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,200
like why am I emotional? Why I have so much

407
00:21:58,599 --> 00:22:01,400
chaos in my life due to him? If I could

408
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,519
just get over that, I would be doing much better. Yeah. Yeah,

409
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,599
it seems to be a common thing that people.

410
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 3: It is.

411
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 2: We just all a lot of us like to go

412
00:22:09,519 --> 00:22:11,839
down the you know, river of denial, and you know,

413
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,039
just keep battling, you know, and it's that's the problem.

414
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,319
That person is the problem, this thing is the problem,

415
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,759
this place is the problem. It's just that drug that's

416
00:22:21,799 --> 00:22:28,440
the problem. And I'm not intrinsically different, right, you know.

417
00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 1: But I cut you off, so you were that's.

418
00:22:31,599 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 2: Okay, it was great. Yeah, it's a it's a great point.

419
00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:39,319
So so I hung up from from Donna and and

420
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,640
after she'd said alcoholic, and I just hung up and

421
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,160
I went, oh oh. And I always think of that

422
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,880
as a god shop, but I think of it as

423
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,319
this little window that opened like this much, do you

424
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,839
know what I mean? There's a crack in the window.

425
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,920
And for whatever reason, and and I don't have a big, good,

426
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,880
solid god conscious thing, you know, it takes. Really, I

427
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,400
don't always feel that at all, but I look at

428
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,000
that time and when that happened, I don't why did

429
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,640
I hear that? Why did I hear really hear her

430
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:18,160
say that and go, oh, she's right. And I called

431
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,640
my friend who I can say her full name because

432
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,079
she's gone now. She got cancer, but she's a wonderful

433
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,920
actor and wonderful woman, very funny. Her name was Gwen Wells,

434
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,920
and I called Gwennie because she was in program. And

435
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:36,599
I said, I'm an alcoholic and she said, yes, honey,

436
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,599
I know which all the people that were so around us,

437
00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:43,160
including like a Loma, who I knew before I got

438
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,000
so much sober, We'll always yes, honey, sit down, yes, yes, yes,

439
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,279
I know you. You know my new relationship we're fighting.

440
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,839
She's a lawyer, Yes, honey, just sit down. You know

441
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:59,039
that's It was that simple for everybody that that knew

442
00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:01,400
me and kind of figured it out. So I went

443
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,279
to a reading that night, and I haven't had a

444
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,640
drink since that was nineteen ninety. I have not had

445
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,880
a drink since, but I've redone my date twice. Okay,

446
00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:20,359
the first time when I I have lupis and remission.

447
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,000
And I had one of those docs that that all

448
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,960
those all those movies are about that, that Michael Keaton's

449
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,799
movie is about dope sick, all that he believed that

450
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,480
oxy conton was absolutely fine. So he had me on

451
00:24:34,519 --> 00:24:37,200
a whole bunch of drugs and one of them was oxycnon.

452
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,119
One of them was pregnozone, which ate a hole in

453
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,359
my shoulder, and one of them was oxy conton. And

454
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,079
he used to say, you're not addicted, You're just habituated.

455
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:49,440
And I was on several hundred milligrams of OxyContin at

456
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:56,920
some at one point, so I was just stupid. But

457
00:24:57,279 --> 00:25:01,559
I had not had a drink. So I after that started,

458
00:25:01,799 --> 00:25:04,000
I had a couple of years before I got sick,

459
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,960
but I worked the program. I had a sponsor, you know,

460
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,359
I went, I did the steps, you know, and it

461
00:25:10,519 --> 00:25:14,480
was great. You know, it was great. I did all

462
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,799
sorts of amends. That was, you know, first couple of years,

463
00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:21,279
about three years, and I was with Pat. I was

464
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:24,000
with my partner that I stayed with and we had kids.

465
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:28,880
But I slipped away from going to meetings.

466
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: You know.

467
00:25:30,519 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: I had a second sponsor who also had lupus, and

468
00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:37,079
she died, so it just I was like, who, you know,

469
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,759
I'm not drinking. I'm not drinking. I'm fine, I'm sober. Meantime,

470
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,880
I started to get sick, and I started to get dosed,

471
00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:49,039
you know, prescribed MS content and then god knows what else,

472
00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:52,839
and then finally OxyContin. And the thing that I did

473
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,279
was I took it.

474
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 1: You know.

475
00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: The thing I did was, okay, I'll take two hundred

476
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,920
milligrams of OxyContin along with six other drugs because I

477
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:01,599
had Lopez.

478
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,839
Speaker 1: You know, did you enjoy the feeling?

479
00:26:05,559 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 2: Oh god, yes, it was high all the time. It

480
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:12,319
was high all the time, and even a few it

481
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,119
led a few years into when we had the kids,

482
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,000
and you know, I can't and you know it's like,

483
00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:24,359
you know, I don't think I drove a lot with

484
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,440
them high, you know, because I wasn't hike all the time.

485
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:31,519
It was just like when I first took my drugs

486
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:33,519
in the morning, or when I you know, if I

487
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:36,400
took a pill and thought, because he told me one

488
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,079
time I could cut it in half, they'd be okay.

489
00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:40,759
If I half chewed it, that was okay. You know

490
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,319
I really was. I'm taking this as as does as prescribed,

491
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:46,799
you know, so I'm sober. That was that was where

492
00:26:46,839 --> 00:26:50,720
my head took me. And I wasn't ask Nancy in

493
00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:53,200
the meeting. She'll tell you that when I first came in,

494
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:58,000
I used to nod off and I wasn't aware, you know,

495
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,640
I didn't know. And I but but before that, I

496
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,720
had stopped going to meetings. And my mom died in

497
00:27:05,759 --> 00:27:08,480
two thousand and four. She'd been sick, she and her

498
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,160
cancer came back. She was living close by me by

499
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,119
that time, and I I kind I kind of had

500
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,960
a bit of a bit of a breakdown. But I

501
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:24,160
ran into a friend in a parking lot when I

502
00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:31,039
was just a wreck, and Kathy and she knew, she

503
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,680
knew I had been sober, and I was. I was

504
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:37,319
just you know, feeling very sorry for myself, crying, crying, crying,

505
00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:41,599
and she said, well, have you been to a meeting lately,

506
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,440
Like not for a few years. That's not the problem,

507
00:27:45,839 --> 00:27:49,799
you know. So she was my my eskimo in terms

508
00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:52,359
of coming back in. So I started going to meetings again,

509
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:59,160
nodding out here and there, and I got Liz for

510
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,279
a sponsor, and you know, just in terms of talking

511
00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:06,680
and going through the whole thing and like talking about

512
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,480
what I was taking in what was going on, it

513
00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:14,079
was like and then changing doctors was like, oh, okay,

514
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,720
I'm this the brain's not clear. It took me a

515
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:23,039
year to tight trade off of the oxycont and pedni zone,

516
00:28:23,079 --> 00:28:28,359
which was killing me. So I dated my new sobriety

517
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,519
because I really wanted to in two thousand and four,

518
00:28:32,599 --> 00:28:35,519
and I had to tie trade down after that, but

519
00:28:35,759 --> 00:28:40,240
because I was working program and tie trading down, and

520
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,640
I had to do it carefully with this new doctor

521
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,359
because you know, it would have not been good on

522
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,680
both of those drugs to tie trade. And by the

523
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,839
time and I remember a pharmacist who used to say, oh,

524
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,359
I don't think you're going to do that. He didn't

525
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,400
believe that, and it was horrible. I was flaring from

526
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,359
my disease and from five mimile and withdrawing at the

527
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:05,359
same time. So it was a rough year. But I

528
00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:08,680
got everything. I got the pregni zone and the oxycont

529
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,200
out and you know the other the other stuff that

530
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,640
i'd been on. Oh god, I've been on xanax for

531
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,079
a while and you know a lot of it.

532
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: It'll be too hard on ourselves. Because I got sober

533
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,519
on February twenty second oh nine, but I was taking

534
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,319
xanax and I had to. I immediately started trying to

535
00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:30,480
titrate off. But I knew that if I just stopped

536
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,960
taking it cold turkey, it was going to be horrendous.

537
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,039
And I wasn't trying to punish myself by getting sober.

538
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:38,359
I was trying to know something, not for myself. So

539
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,079
I mean, you don't want to make yourself insane. I

540
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:44,319
went to my doctor and I said, I need to

541
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:46,359
get off of this. I want to do it safely.

542
00:29:46,839 --> 00:29:49,519
I wasn't taking for me. I wasn't taking a huge dose,

543
00:29:49,599 --> 00:29:52,599
and I was also taking it as directed, but there

544
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,079
was something about how much I looked forward to taking it.

545
00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:56,359
Speaker 2: Yes, I loved it.

546
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: I loved the feeling. It changed my life. I was like,

547
00:29:59,079 --> 00:30:04,000
oh my god, this is how people feel who are normal,

548
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,920
like they just live life. They're not like tense of

549
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,599
I til all the time, right, So I thought, I

550
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,640
really need this. But I did understand that I wasn't

551
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:17,640
even though I was taking it as directed. I understood

552
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,079
that I was pretty dependent on it and looking forward

553
00:30:21,079 --> 00:30:22,680
to it as a release at the end of the day.

554
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,880
So I tight trade it off, but I'll tell you.

555
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,680
When I got to the last bit of it, I

556
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,960
was like finger in the like I was trying to get.

557
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,000
I was because I broke it in half. Then I

558
00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:36,559
broke it in I was the same way, by the way,

559
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,240
with a non addictive drug, which is Zoloft. Years out

560
00:30:40,279 --> 00:30:42,839
into my sobriety, I decided to try to. I decided

561
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:49,200
I really needed to see if my anxiety was related

562
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:52,680
to drinking or if it was or if I was

563
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:56,559
just a person because I hadn't. I traded off of

564
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,119
zoloft and it was horrendous and that's why I was

565
00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:04,119
really like. I split it in half. Then I split

566
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,039
it in a quarter. Then I got a lower dose

567
00:31:06,119 --> 00:31:07,839
and split that in half. And then by the time

568
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,279
I finished, it was like scraping up crumbs.

569
00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 2: Like, but you also stopped sugar, didn't you.

570
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: I mean off and on through the years.

571
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's I Every once in a while,

572
00:31:19,759 --> 00:31:24,119
I think, you know, I'm I don't eat gluten and

573
00:31:24,279 --> 00:31:26,640
I don't eat red meat, and I'm a daby, but

574
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,039
I'm sober. But man, do I love you know? I

575
00:31:30,119 --> 00:31:33,160
like my sweet things. It's not like candy bars, but

576
00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:36,200
there's so many things that I consume that have sugar

577
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:36,559
in them.

578
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm saying like, and there's more to your story,

579
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,279
But I'm saying like, we can't get caught up like

580
00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:47,640
I refuse listen. I don't drink, I don't do drugs,

581
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,680
but I'm not like I wasn't going to change myself

582
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,319
like I wanted a society date. I knew I was

583
00:31:54,359 --> 00:31:56,640
getting off of I was taking it. Well you know,

584
00:31:56,759 --> 00:31:59,039
it's like, okay, there's nothing wrong with that. I would

585
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:01,839
never like try to go back and figure out when

586
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,960
the last bit of zet. You know, I wasn't taking

587
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,319
pannex anymore to get high. I was taking it to

588
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,440
uh by trade down, feel bad, not yet might not

589
00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:11,720
have a horrible withdrawal.

590
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 2: Well, and I exactly that's I I pegged my new

591
00:32:17,279 --> 00:32:22,240
date at the moment that I got conscious. And I

592
00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:25,400
think that's that's a different if you have to tie

593
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,200
trade off something the time that you get conscious about

594
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,519
it and say, okay, I want to I want to

595
00:32:31,559 --> 00:32:33,720
be sober, I want to have this thing. Yeah, And

596
00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:36,039
no matter how long it takes you to tie trade

597
00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:37,400
you've got that consciousness.

598
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,799
Speaker 1: Now, we wouldn't do that with alcohol. We wouldn't be

599
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,559
like Okay, from the time you start thinking I'm really

600
00:32:42,599 --> 00:32:48,519
gonna start, from the time you start really moderating, that's when.

601
00:32:48,319 --> 00:32:51,559
Speaker 2: You can know, yeah, it doesn't work that way. I mean,

602
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,920
for me it worked. It was one of those miraculous

603
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,799
things that I thought about alcohol every day. I planned

604
00:32:57,799 --> 00:33:00,200
when to take it, when I thought about not, I

605
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,440
mean you went to drink it. And when I thought

606
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,480
about not having any alcohol. He was like, no, I

607
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:09,039
couldn't do that. But after that moment when I crawled

608
00:33:09,079 --> 00:33:13,640
through that little metaphoric window and went to my first

609
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,839
meeting with a bunch of toothless old guys, you know,

610
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,359
saying welcome home, you know, and I was like, you know,

611
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:24,960
when I went to that first meeting, I really didn't

612
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,279
want to drink. And I know that's not everybody's experience.

613
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,200
I was really fortunate that way. I you know, I

614
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,240
didn't have that consciousness about the drugs that I was given,

615
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:41,400
you know. But but you know, finally I found my

616
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,799
way back from from there with Kathy in the parking

617
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:48,880
lot and you know, coming into meetings and finally kind

618
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,359
of getting honest about how much I was taking and

619
00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:56,920
and ty trading down. I think it's a consciousness stuff.

620
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,279
You know, it's a and the willingness. Somebody was just

621
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:06,279
talking about willingness yesterday. Right, it's it's when you stop

622
00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:09,840
being stubborn as hell, you know, because we're just so smart.

623
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:12,719
We're so much smarter than everybody, right, and we think

624
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,400
we have the keys and and then you figure out

625
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,199
that you don't and there's a better way to do it.

626
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,360
So but I did just great.

627
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: I didn't know you in those first five years, your

628
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,719
first five years, but I have to believe that you

629
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,880
still had edge and you were still a little fuck

630
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,960
off and a little a little yes, it's a little

631
00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:37,400
reverend is a nice way to say it. Yes, I

632
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,920
consider myself irreverent.

633
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you know I could and would if

634
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:48,599
he wore socks. Danielle and I used to say that,

635
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,760
you know, you know, and what was it. I think

636
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,639
Ron and I had, you know, like something about Neil anyway.

637
00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:58,639
I mean, you know, we just we would make jokes

638
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,039
and you know, have a song and things like that.

639
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:07,000
But it didn't mean not being serious about sobriety. You know.

640
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:11,679
It's a bit of a you know, I mean sometimes

641
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,679
it's it's a bit you know, it's a bit of

642
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,360
I'm cooler than this or you know. I mean, there's

643
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,039
an ego involved in the edge for sure, and I

644
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:23,159
try I try to be aware of that, you know.

645
00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:23,519
Speaker 3: What I mean.

646
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: I try to be aware of your ego as well,

647
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:27,760
not mine, because I don't have that problem.

648
00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:30,159
Speaker 2: Yours is yours is aces right.

649
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,679
Speaker 1: Okay, So time goes by, things are good, but not

650
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,199
great in your relationship as much.

651
00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 2: No, no, it was. It was a from from two

652
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,280
thousand and four when I marked my new sobriety after

653
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,920
my mom died. The good news about that about that

654
00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:53,480
long period of time, you know, the next the next

655
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,400
twenty years really almost is that right? Yeah? No, no, no,

656
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:05,360
the next ten fifteen years was that I really went

657
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:11,480
into the middle of the program of being sober, and

658
00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:16,079
I worked at it. I'm sure I didn't work at

659
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:18,880
it as hard as other people did. You know, I

660
00:36:19,199 --> 00:36:23,320
still let other things take precedent, and you know, I

661
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:24,880
look back and I think, well, maybe that's why I

662
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,039
couldn't stay sober the last time. But you know, who knows.

663
00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:30,480
You know, I did the best that I could, and

664
00:36:30,519 --> 00:36:34,159
I was in the middle of my sobriety and my

665
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,239
group when we raised the kids in the in the

666
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:44,239
significant time as we raised them, but we had we

667
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,760
had a lot of turmoil because the dome donor that

668
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,960
we used turned against us and took us to court

669
00:36:51,039 --> 00:36:54,199
and we were in court for years, in and out

670
00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:58,320
of court. And Pat and I'm m I think we're

671
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,000
very different fundamentally, and but but we were. We were good,

672
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,800
you know, for years and years. We were good for

673
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,920
ten years before we even had the kids, you know,

674
00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:13,639
or not not quite ten, yeah, almost ten. And we

675
00:37:13,639 --> 00:37:17,519
were good right after. But when the the court stuff

676
00:37:17,559 --> 00:37:21,239
started and they started being it was threatening, you know,

677
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,280
it was threatening to take them away from us, or

678
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,199
take them away partially, which did happen. They got visitation.

679
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,000
It just sometimes it brings you close to together, sometimes

680
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:33,239
it pulls you apart. And then we were and we

681
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,079
were sort of like tigers in a cage. And I

682
00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:39,840
you know, there have been many times when I blamed

683
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,000
her and she was the bad you know, but I

684
00:37:42,119 --> 00:37:44,880
played my part, you know, I played my part of

685
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,360
a martyr and a victim, and you know, our relationship

686
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,840
just disintegrated over those years. At the same time, we

687
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,920
both loved those kids. We had twins, boy girl twins,

688
00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:01,159
and we I mean I say this in my show,

689
00:38:01,199 --> 00:38:04,199
We Love Them with a ferocity of middle aged lesbians

690
00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:08,280
making children, because you know, that is what it's I mean,

691
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,000
you know, you know the value of this thing of

692
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,920
having children, of having a family. You know, we were

693
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,119
already in our forties and so the value. And then

694
00:38:18,159 --> 00:38:20,360
we worked for four and a half years. I had

695
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,360
had hysterectomy or partial one, and so pat it was

696
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,199
on patch. She was also three years younger, so we

697
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,840
worked for years and years for her to get pregnant.

698
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,320
So when she finally did and she was almost forty five,

699
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,800
it was it was a miracle. It was fucking miracle.

700
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:39,880
And then they came out. Will had to be in

701
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,960
the niqu for a while, but then they came out

702
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,599
and they were beautiful and perfect and smart and funny.

703
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,360
I used to think, oh, they're Indigo children, you know,

704
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,800
which you couldn't, you know, these children from other planets.

705
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,679
I mean, they were just magical and it was really

706
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,239
just the way we saw them, even though yes they

707
00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:03,599
are they were wonderful. But we adored them. And that

708
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,400
was the one place we kind of came together, is

709
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:12,360
adoring the kids and despising the donor for you know,

710
00:39:12,639 --> 00:39:17,320
for tearing us apart. But yeah, we fell apart and

711
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,880
little by little until we really acknowledged it to each

712
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,519
other after we've been in therapy and acknowledged to the kids.

713
00:39:25,559 --> 00:39:28,480
So there were things about my program that you know,

714
00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:32,000
were about being sober that were really challenged during that time.

715
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,559
And I did stay sober. I did, but I probably

716
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:37,400
could have worked harder. But I stayed sober, and I

717
00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:39,719
stayed in the middle as much as I could. And

718
00:39:40,119 --> 00:39:43,480
I was in the middle because when the worst thing happened,

719
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:53,199
even though I couldn't see myself, you know, I couldn't

720
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,320
find where I fit in after it happened. When it

721
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,360
first happened, you know, I will never forget what the

722
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:06,480
women in my home meeting were like, which is in

723
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:08,559
a way, it was really intimidating and tough. And the

724
00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:09,559
thing that happened.

725
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: Is that here's what I want to do.

726
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me, I.

727
00:40:12,039 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: Want to split this. I really feel strong that this

728
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,400
is like before and then and after. I want I.

729
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 2: Want to stop before, I want to.

730
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,199
Speaker 1: End this episode. And then I'm gonna tomorrow, I'm going

731
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,039
to air part two and we'll do We'll do the

732
00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:32,039
rest of it. We'll do it right now. But I'm

733
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:33,920
just saying for our audience.

734
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: I'm gonna, well, yeah, come come back.

735
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I want you to come back tomorrow and

736
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,880
hear the rest of Margo's story. It's very awful, touching.

737
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,599
You're so strong. So let's uh, let's say goodbye. Margot.

738
00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:51,360
Where can we find you? You're still doing stuff and

739
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:52,639
your show is coming back.

740
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're doing We're doing a one off. We're doing

741
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:01,159
a special encore performance at the LGBT Center in Hollywood

742
00:41:01,519 --> 00:41:05,639
in February twenty eighth. Okay, so that's the first thing

743
00:41:05,679 --> 00:41:06,079
we're doing.

744
00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:09,119
Speaker 1: So Margot has a show that she wrote and produced

745
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,599
and stars in. It's her show, and well you'll find

746
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:17,760
out what that's about tomorrow. And so you're doing that,

747
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,119
And can they follow you on Instagram? You need some

748
00:41:20,199 --> 00:41:21,360
Instagram followers?

749
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,199
Speaker 2: I do. I don't have enough stuff.

750
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,159
Speaker 1: What's your Instagram handle?

751
00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 2: It's just Margot J. Rose is a little thing underneath it,

752
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,840
but it's Margot J underscore ROSEKA think.

753
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: Yes, I will put it in the description of the show.

754
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,599
Speaker 2: And FB is just Margot Rose. I think, oh, I

755
00:41:39,599 --> 00:41:41,320
think I've got a Jay in most of those things.

756
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,960
And then we've got we've got an Instagram for the show,

757
00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:46,599
but we can go into that later.

758
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: Okay, come, please don't miss tomorrow. I'll see you guys tomorrow.

759
00:41:51,599 --> 00:41:54,280
I thank you, Margot, you're welcome.

760
00:41:54,320 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 3: Stiff, I just don't like this carry.

761
00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:11,519
Speaker 2: Yelling my darky time. You can't be fling like